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AVG 2011 Update Causes Widespread Problems For 64-Bit Windows
phx_zs writes "Last night's mandatory update of AVG 2011 Free edition has caused most 64-bit Windows 7 PCs to fail while loading Windows. On their website they have an FAQ with instructions on how to repair the problem using a boot CD or USB device."
The irony is that you need to find another computer to read up on how to fix the issue.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
Does anyone actually use AVG anymore? There was a time when it was awesome, but it just got crazy bloated and slow...
Living With a Nerd
AVG is trash and has been since at least vserion 8. We're using the enterprise version 9.0, with the 2011 management console at my organization, and today it started pushing out its AVG toolbar to everyone.
I used to recommend AVG as the free anti-virus solution to people, but Microsoft Security Essentials has a much smaller footprint, it doesn't harass you to upgrade to a paid version, and it has a better detection rate.
AVG isn't particularly great when comparing free or paid products these days.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
I haven't run antivirus software in years and I've never had a virus.
Ummm...
Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
I was happily working along on the Dell Latitude E6500 laptop I justed picked up off of eBay (after replacing the hard drive and reinstalling Win7Prox64 of course), when AVG asked to reboot. I did so, and...system restore popped up. Okay, I knew AVG screwed something up, because this just doesn't normally happen. After getting back into the system and having it happen again, I uninstalled AVG Free 2011 until they get it fixed.
Nothing to see here but us trolls...move along...
I used to recommend AVG, and have since switched to telling family members to use Windows Security Essentials. AVG isn't the lightweight, unobtrusive piece of software it used to be.
I run AVG but not the default versions. Well, it's the same except I disable the link scanning, tool bars, and id protection crap and it seems to be smooth and light.
Why does the lyric "It's a small world after all!" suddenly ring in my head?
Why is /. not blaming this on M$?
I'll try anything once. Twice if it tastes good
yeah, because compiling from source is always safer... ProFTPD.org Compromised, Backdoor Distributed
However for the most part I agree with you and don't run any antivirus software myself, at least at home, i am forced to at work.
I've been discouraging my friends/customers from using it for about 18 months now.
Agreed that it was once awesome, but they took a dive when they starting including that crappy IE plugin tool that pre-verifies all the results of your searches.
They also make it nigh on impossible to find the free version on their site (or it was hard last time I looked, which has been a while).
While all AV programs are prone to screwing something up, this one won't help their already soured reputation.
I've been using Avast and Sophos for a while now and had little issues with either of them.
-JJS
Of course something like this would happen with a free program, you get what you pay for. Nothing like this would ever happen with one of the quality anti virus programs, like McAfee...
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
Aren't updates tested before being pushed out? Or would useful testing of definitions take too long with modern AV software that they just pass the barest of qualifications before being approved?
I got burned with this this morning. I had to boot into my Windows install CD and revert to a save point. I'm quite underwhelmed.
Quite frankly, I'm actually getting tired of AVG suddenly deciding that I need to restart my computer so that it can finish an upgrade that I didn't initiate it. It's my computer, and I will decide when to do upgrades and when to f-ing reboot -- that's the one thing about Windows machines that still drives me crazy, every ^$#^#% application deciding that what I really need to do is reboot.
Knowing that it was AVG that cost me an hour this morning.
So, Slashdot, what are my alternatives to move away from AVG?
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
The fact the ProFTPD backdoor is news is because it's so rare.
Malware on Windows? Not news. Not when there are millions of signatures.
Why do Windows boosters *always* use the false equivalence fallacy when it comes subjects such as this?
--
BMO
Same here. It's still annoying at times, but once those are turned off, it's usable.
AVG started going downhill at 8, and then nose-dived at 9 when they had the focus stealing issue and another that a coworker of mine reported regarding the Outlook/Exchange plugin failing to update and causing Outlook to crash on startup (this was also a widespread issue, but I don't believe it got as much press seeing as most organizations using Outlook or the Exchange plugin aren't using AVG). Worse was their response to the issue, which as I recall was initially lazy denial.
This now hardly surprises me. I've migrated from AVG to Avast, and not only is it far lighter, but it's also faster and has never once given me grief. It's one of the best overall AV's according to AV-Comparatives (AVG is, too), and next to Security Essentials for the less technically-minded, it's all I recommend.
Screw the rules, I have green hair!
No. Just no. I'm a Windows hater too, but no. It's simply not THAT bad. It's really easy to catch something, but simply existing on the web isn't enough. You are making "magical" assumptions.
look, i don't have neither a pro nor anti linux or windows agenda. i use both systems at home linux works great as a server, windows as a desktop.
i guess the point i am trying to make is that if you don't read and understand all the source code before you compile it isn't really any safer than running a precompiled binary/executable. because unless you read and understand the source code entirely you really don't know what could be hiding in it.
I never have had any virus scanner running on background, i only manually run it every now and then. Never had any viruses, plenty of 'scary' cookies and stuff like that, but nothing else. This could be because i pretty much know what i'm doing, i don't search porn sites with IE6 and i only install software that i already know from somewhere.
So, Slashdot, what are my alternatives to move away from AVG?
Linux ...
BSD
Mac
Plan9
BeOS
AmigaOS
Atari
TRS80
I use the internet just fine and stopped using AV's a few years back as they never ever came up with anything on my desktop PC. It was a complete waste.
I however have a laptop these days and a wireless network I use often requires Sophos as an AV to be working to access the network. If anything Sophos tags all sorts of craziness as a Virus... False positives on lots of games for instance, usually in the anti-cheating software they use. And the best part is it won't let you exclude something 90% of the time. I can't run certain things even in Sandboxie. The AV does not know more than me, but it sure damn well thinks it does. Besides wrongly tagging games and finding the occasional 'virus' of the low threat kind in stuff I plan to run with sandboxie it's useless to me and a waste of cpu cycles.
So no, you don't have to have 'SOMETHING' if you run a windows PC (64 bit or not) & in fact an AV can be a complete waste of resources...
we are all invisible unless we choose otherwise
Would it satisfy you if those of us who don't use AV software on a regular basis install some, do a scan, and show you that we are indeed (speak for myself) not infected with mysterious viruses?
It's kind of like saying that people that have never had sex have the same HIV infection rate as those who have unprotected sex with multiple partners. Personally, I don't have sex with the internet.
Someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool.
Does anyone on slashdot still run antivirus software in the background?
Some of us have to maintain computers for family/friends. Said people are not always the brightest when it comes to computers. Unless you haven't upgraded in the last 10 years, your computer should easily be able to run an antivirus without much noticeable performance issues. Myself, I am very glad I was too lazy to upgrade AVG yesterday.
I dream of a nation where a man is not judged by his skin color but by an number assigned by a credit rating agency.
Yes it is. My sister had exactly that, until I brought her a cheep router.
No! I hate webmail! You can take my Thunderbird when you pry it from my cold dead hands!
If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
I haven't run antivirus software in years and I've never had a virus.
I'd say there's a very good chance you have viruses and/or trojans already but just don't know it. On my home network it's a constant battle not only with the staid sites I use but especially with the sites the teenagers frequent to keep machines clean. These days you just cannot afford to not run anti-virus if you have your machine connected to any network or use any form of USB devices, and this is especially so if you use your machines for any type of online banking/financial transactions! I run multiple packages, Comodo free firewall/IDS, Peerblock, and Trend Anti-virus. As the i5 and i7 CPU's have all the grunt you could want, having several background security apps running now doesn't have any appreciable performance impact on a system.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Antivirus causes more problems than it solves. You're far better off using a modern operating system (Mac, Linux, Win7, anything but XP) with no antivirus and religious attention to system updates.
This opinion may be totally uninformed and wrong, but since I never use Windows for anything mission-critical, I don't care if I turn out to be wrong.
You don't get them by opening email or surfing the web these days. Tracking cookies are not viruses.
You absolutely CAN get an infection from simply surfing the web. I was one of the people affected by the AVG Update Of Death, but I recovered and I will continue to use them in part because it integrates with Firefox and has stopped numerous attacks by intercepting seemingly innocuous sites. If you're not aware of the danger involved in simply surfing the web, you should do a little honest research.
*** *** You're just jealous 'cause the voices talk to me... ***
Mods please, please.
about this same item first thing this morning. "AVG Update Stops Viruses From Running...And OS"
jsut athnoer menagiensls ltitle psrhae for you to dcoede. Why do we wtsae our tmie dnoig tihs?
NAT != firewall. Most routers I've set up don't have the firewall running properly out of the box.
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde
I have no direct evidence to contradict what you say, but every time someone has categorically said "you can't get a virus by just doing X", it doesn't take very long for that to be demonstrated false.
Sometimes, it's even by design with Windows -- stuff like hiding the extension of well know files, autorun, or executing scripts in email just by viewing the damned thing.
I would be completely unsurprised if there were viruses/malware you could get from a website without even knowing it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to run a machine without some AV on it.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Using a USB dongle where I study can infect it with anywhere between 1 and 4 different malware, I don't know, maybe the IT staff are incompetent, maybe it the large number of Macs leaving them with not much experience with Windows, maybe it's just the heavy use of USB dongles.
It wouldn't be a good idea to stick your dongle into one of those machines without protection.
Well it isn't exactly hard to kill the majority of the virus's propagation vectors. I haven't run a "real-time" AV program on my windows machine regularly since 2000 or so. I have caught 1 (detected) virus in that time, and that was from a USB fob a friend plugged into my PC. That actually failed because I was running under a restricted user account when it happened (win2003) and the autorun on the fob simply started up and then didn't have permissions to write to the registry location in wanted. Caused some strange behavior and I said "that's weird" and promptly dug into it. Found it, and had it removed in about 10 mins.
Before that I had autorun turned off, but failed to realize that it wasn't a binary on/off, instead there are further controls which needed to be set to disable it for USB mass storage, and other types of media (fsking M$).
So, for a start..
Plain text email.
Restricted user account (can't modify the system settings).
Updated Browser with noscript/flashblock/adblock/etc.
virus total (upload everything there before you install it).
autorun disabled on all devices
restrictive firewall, traffic monitoring
etc..
That said, I do periodically run some scanners, so its not like I never check, but I don't like any of the run all the time scanners.
So while its possible I have a virus, it doesn't seem to have done any harm yet, and none of the mainstream scanners I sometimes run against system images seems to be able to find anything.
I don't have protection either, and I know I have viruses, but I just don't care.
"C'mere honey."
But seriously, it can happen even to the observant. This morning I installed VLC Media Player or what I *thought* was VLC, but the .exe didn't do anything. Just beep and make a "Registry changed. Approve or Deny?" window pop up. Probably a trojan. Good thing TeaTimer caught it.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Unless you are talking about locking down outbound connections, I fail to see how a NAT gateway would allow any unsolicited connections to things behind it.
In terms of itself, it would be a problem if they either didn't filter their own packets or at least refrain from most services/specifically bind to internal-facing addresses, but I'd hope they wouldn't be silly about it.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Yeah, seems Microsoft Security Essentials should have done them in. Probably a lot of people just use them because they have for a few years out of habit.
I do. Am on Win7 64bit. Ran the upgrade last night and it seems fine here.
I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
Since I first tried out Microsoft Security Essentials that's what I've advised people who ask me what to run on the home machines to use. I use it on my Win7 machine & it's unobtrusive, which I like. For work I like NOD32, which equally just does its job & otherwise is not noticed. I had an issue with AVG on an XP machine years ago and one problem like that is enough for me.
Could I replace your Thunderbird with SeaMonkey/Mozilla Suite or Opera?
(SM == firefox and thunderbird merged into one)
(Opera == nordic)
I like web-mail because it's allowed me to keep the same address since 1997. I've been through PSU, Erols, MSN, AOL/Netscape, and now Verizon ISPs but my address remains the same regardless.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
A couple of years ago I got a virus of some sort while browsing the web in IE6. Completely drive-by, no installation, no click here, nothing. Just a pop-up from Windows Firewall saying that application-with-Russian-characters-in-its-name would like to connect to the internet, allow it? It had actually already copied the executable onto my disk and launched it – no, that wasn’t just a ploy to get me to install it.
It was easy enough to remove (I was able to kill the process, delete the startup entry from the registry, and delete the executable), but it was still a bit unsettling.
I don’t remember why I wasn’t using Firefox, but it was a good learning experience for why it’s a really bad idea to use IE6...
Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
You would be surprised -- some broadband places hand you a CSU/DSU, tell you to "plug computer in here" and go on. This is why I end up making sure friends/family have at least a basic firewall like a Cisco ASA 5505 or 5510.
NoScript and AdBlock Plus are your friends.
Um, no.
I have a PC that has been running Windows XP for five years now, and ESET Nod32 all the time. It's seen heavy Internet use.
So far it's had four false positives, and not blocked any real payload.
I have gone through the machine with a fine toothed comb more than once, and it really is clean.
The recipe for keeping it so is amazingly simple - just a few common sense rules will keep you safer than any AV software will (and I'm saying this as an AV software author).
1: Use a NAT ...)
2: Run Microsoft update every patch Tuesday, or when Microsoft releases urgent updates.
3: Keep other internet capable software up to date too (Firefox, Adobe Flash and Reader,
4: Don't use IE for external sites.
5: Don't use Firefox extensions from someone you can't even name.
6: Don't use a web browser for e-mail, and don't use your e-mail reader for web content.
7: Don't follow links in e-mails. Cut and paste links if you have to.
8: Get your educational video files from well-known sites.
I mean, it's not exactly hard. Download from sourceforge, compile from source, use sandboxie, whatever.
did you comb through all the source to that thing you compiled? I didn't, but i assumed you did so it must be safe.
If you have Adobe Reader or Flash installed you absolutely DO get them by surfing the web. Go to a site where their ad network has gotten either hacked or just had a bad ad get by their "review" and it is a done deal. Turning on DEP for all processes, installing EMET (video on it here http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/ff859539.aspx) and configuring it to protect acrord32.exe and your browser, installing Adobe Reader 10, keeping Flash up to date and using something like FlashBlock to control when Flash can run, etc. can all help out in this space. But for the average user who doesn't update Flash or Adobe Reader - they absolutely get infections just browsing the web. My boss and my brother in law both got a fake AV from reputable sites recently - the ad networks had served an Acrobat Reader exploit. I'll recommend MS Security Essentials as a free as in beer, low impact AV product. But I'd look into EMET if you haven't already.
I'm not saying it's useless, or even that it's not sufficient for most ordinary users. Just pointing out that the parent to my post was incorrect in assuming all routers and gateways act as a hardware firewall out of the box.
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde
So I see that Clam AV has a windows version. Is it any good?
Cheers,
RM
Nobody's as dumb, as I appear to be
Hogwash.
I've tried installing a number of different anti-virus utilities over the years to check my system from time to time, but never used to have any permanent anti-virus protection in the background. In the 12 years I've been using Windows, I've never gotten a virus. Earlier this year, I tried Security Essentials and liked it, so I started using it permanently. Visiting a web site will occasionally warn that the site is trying to set a tracking cookie, but that's it.
The only real difference in my system usage is that I favor open source apps, I don't run any games newer than 8 years old, I never use Internet Explorer, and I have JavaScript support disabled in my PDF reader.
I also fix other people's computers. It's very rare that I find a virus, but common that I find multiple anti-virus programs fighting with each other, or massive amounts of bloatware installed. I usually replace the bloatware with open source apps, use "Autoruns" to disable the crap, and replace the mess of security suites with Security Essentials (largely because it doesn't nag about updates and fees, and updates silently). Reinstallation of Windows is almost never required. Amazingly, most people already know that they should avoid IE. I see a lot of people using Firefox, and haven't seen much of Chrome or Opera.
Frankly, the only time I saw viruses in the wild was at the class computers at my college campus. Those machines were overrun with crap. PCs are almost always unstable due to bad drivers, unnecessary background tasks, or mal-ware that must be explicitly installed.
With a modern desktop OS, the chances of infection via remote exploit is generally low by virtue of not generally listening on any port by default, at least not beyond link-local scope. MS *at least* learned that lesson. Most all exploits enter a network via trojaned email, web site, or removable storage.
So if you do have a regimented small home network, and you are careful about not doing *anything* via unsolicited dialog boxes, you have a good shot of running. I have anti-virus on systems and haven't had a single hit in years.
Meanwhile, I have relatives that see 'an urgent update for flash is needed' window, click without question, and end up rapidly with a mess of a setup real quick (with or without anti-virus, the anti-virus was surprisingly oblivious despite correctly updating definitions). I think the vast majority of users fall into this bucket.
Simple rule for Windows systems I give to less savvy friends and family: If it doesn't show up in the system tray, assume it's a browser window and therefore not to be trusted. If you really think flash needs an update, close the dialog and go to adobe's site directly, just like you would call your bank rather than blindly reply to an email.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
This happened to me about a month ago on a 32-bit Windows 7 box. Woke up to a BSOD caused by a wee hours AVG update. Used system restore to fix the box, got rid of AVG, installed Microsoft Security Essentials and haven't looked back.
You don't get them by opening email or surfing the web these days.
Not true for 'average' computer users. I think many are dubious of email, but if a web site offers an installer package available via a button that says 'your system requires a critical flash update' or 'we have detected a virus, click here to install a removal program', you bet way too many people click and trust.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Uninstalled it when I figured out it was responsible for Team Fortress 2 breakage, even when I disabled the networking components (I found out that doesn't actually disable them, you have to choose not to install them at install time) and was happy when my whole computer sped up as a bonus.
No. Just no. I'm a Windows hater too, but no. It's simply not THAT bad. It's really easy to catch something, but simply existing on the web isn't enough.
Existing, no, browsing to, yes. What if you simply browsed to a page with a trojan PDF for example...
That would be enough.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
... is the lesson I take from this.
I also use MSE on all my windows installs, and it's surprisingly low-profile.
I can only imagine that Microsoft finally figured out that this security industry is like a symbiote that will eventually kill the host (Windows). Best is to create your own version and integrate it (though the 2nd part would be regarded suspiciously by anti-trust division).
Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
I used to use (and recommend) AVG, but it recently seemed to make my PC whir all the time (I moved house recently so have the base unit on my desk now, instead of previously under the desk when I probably wouldn't hear it overly whirring). Plus it had problems updating so was complaining that it needed to update, but then wouldn't (it may have been because I don't run as an admin, but I really didn't want to switch user every time it wanted to update its virus definitions).
Switched to Avast! and it seems to be working fine (once I turned off the random talking voice). Scans don't take as long (I don't think, they normally run in the background), computer doesn't whir as much. After long periods of time of not having a virus found, I've switched a daily scan to be a quick one, with a more thorough one at the weekend. And it manages to update itself without needing to be logged in as admin! Yarr!
Yet another reason why virus scanners are crap and don't go anywhere near my Windows box.
I went to eat some animal crackers and the box said, "Do not eat if seal is broken." I opened the box and sure enough..
How is that "ironic"?
--
make install -not war
I'm a Windows Hater too!! That's it. I just hate Windows.
Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
Norton, Symantec, whatever name they are hiding under these days is positively the worst when it comes to slowdowns and bloatware.
And, I absolutely wouldn't use MacAfee after their blue screen debacle with Internet Security Suite on Windows 2000. AVG at least admitted an issue and had fixes. After paying for an upgrade to MacAfee's Internet Security Suite and getting it partially installed, it caused the system to blue screen on boot. Since the software hadn't finished installing and wasn't registered, I couldn't get support without putting up cash up front. And then, they denied the problem. They continually took down posts on their forums from myself and others trying to get the problem resolved.
As far as trusting Microsoft to secure anything, give me a break.
AVG should have done more testing, but at least they didn't run from the problem.
Or, you could drop a few dollars on a vanity domain name. I own the .org domain for my last name (it's a four letter last name, so that was lucky).
The other option is gmail, which allows you to use webmail and/or an email client like Thunderbird.
Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
No. I have found that all in one solutions generally do not do anything well. Remember the last versions of Netscape?
Opera is for people who feel the need to be different so that they can be different.
If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
This is why the policy on my network is "No automatic updates.". Software can tell me there's an update available, but all downloading and installation of updates is operator-initiated. That way I can control when updates are installed and can delay installation until I've seen whether they cause problems or not. Any software that can't follow my rule gets uninstalled (forcibly if neccesary).
It annoys the IT guys at my workplace because they want my home machines (that I use to VPN in to work) to take updates from them automatically, but they can't argue too loudly because my policy is virtually word-for-word identical to their policy for company machines. And they really don't like me pointing out that when it comes to virus infections, I've got a better track record on my machines than they do on theirs.
The irony is that you need to find another computer to read up on how to fix the issue.
*sniffs air*
What's that smell?
*sniff sniff*
Yes, I think... Yes, it's certainly the stench of... *sniff* Yes, AVGs share price nose diving...
Moved to http://soylentnews.org/. You are invited to join us too!
I don't bother with having an Antivirus on the machine that I actively use. I use a systems settings manager. Anytime a registry value changes, added, or removed? I get a popup. Anytime something wants to alter a windows system file - popup. Anytime something simply wants to be added inside the Windows Folder - popup.
Sure I'll throw an antivirus on there and update it and run a scan about every season - but I'm not going to bother constantly updating virus definitions, setting up weekly scans, etc etc - when all they have ever done is come back blank - except for MAYBE tracking cookies if I even have cookies enabled - often times I just have my browser delete any temp data on browser exit.
It's a simple system - I'll know when I catch a virus, the system settings protection manager will catch it - I'll be asked if I want to allow a change or deny it from happening. If it pops up when I don't expect it to - I know something is up. I've had it trigger when browsing the web - Mostly if I were to try and install an Active X control - which shouldn't actually alter any of the regular system settings if done properly. Simply using something like this is much easier than an Antivirus. It's like Windows UAC on steroids - so I turn that off so I'm not hitting things twice.
But basically, Pojuts point he tried to make "You have something if you aren't locked down or behind a crazy firewall" is complete FUD. He has no evidence to back it up. Simple protection measurements will work - you don't need anything complex, you just need to watch whats happening.
Being behind a firewall was only necessary before the days of routers - routers now normally already block all incomming traffic - thats why port forwarding is such a pain if you want to set up a server for a game. All that you need to do to stay clean now is knowing when something changes. Merely having a file on your computer that doesn't do anything doesn't constitute an infection.
Might also be worth installing something like WoT to reduce the chance of downloading a trojaned version in the first place:
http://www.mywot.com/en/scorecard/downloadvlcplayer.org
Okay, add your Vista is crap already joke here....
I wondered what the problem was. I hadn't installed any new software. The computer had booted up previously. But I left it on and went to dinner. Came back and the screen wouldn't come up. Started tapping the keyboard (thought it was in sleep mode) but then it rebooted. Tapping the key must have signaled the AVG reboot. Or it tried to reboot but then came up with an error. Ran the auto fix on it which found nothing wrong with the hardware. Finally got it to boot up by rolling back the System Restore to 11/30.
I wondered about AVG because it's the only think I could think of that was active unless a virus had slipped in somehow...
If you've never been modded as "flamebait" or "troll," you've never tried to argue a minority viewpoint here!
An early November update hosed my 2 XP SP3 computers causing memory leaks. Any computer running continuously for 12 or so hrs crashed. Now this update takes out a Win 7 64 bit computer. 2 major problems is a one month period. I put the XP's on Panda cloud. Probably do the same for the Win 7 as well.
Everyone should have a KNOPPIX CD/DVD to hand. It's very useful for when someone messes up the Windows PC. I've used it several times for cleaning malware off of Mrs. Turgid's laptops after the monkeys have been on the intarwebs.
Stick Men
See if you are prompted for this.
Not a virus, just a PDF displayed using the HTML Embed tag. But it shows you just need to visit a page. As I said.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Even that won't always cut it.
Remember the PNG exploit?
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
free.avg.com. You just have to watch for the free links, because they put the paid ones next to it and they're a whole lot flashier
I'll second this. I'm reasonably careful - browse only with Firefox and a handful of extensions, don't use bootleg software, careful about executing anything (unsigned or unknown), and typically stay out of the darker areas of the net. I'd even go as far as to say I think I know what I'm doing.
I still got hit.
Back before Steam switched to webkit, I joined in a random game of counterstrike. The embedded MOTD screen used some flaw in the embedded IE engine that was able to infect my system. Fortunately some of the follow on setups had issues on XP64 and some of the locked down settings, so I discovered what was going on right away.... but I did nothing but view a HTML page from inside a video game to get infected.
PDF, flash, JRE - all sorts of bits on a machine that might just expose you where one might think they are practicing safe hex. It is not just the browser, but all the net enabled applications installed (possibly by default) that should make a person worry.
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
Agreed, I've had excellent results for Avast. I only wish they'd update their managed client and ADNM (which was rather crap to begin with) to version 5.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
You don't have protection, but you use TeaTimer? Also where the fuck did you download VLC?
I own the .org domain for my last name (it's a four letter last name, so that was lucky).
So /you're/ the guy who owns fuck.com?
Since Norton, modern AV software in general seems to be a case of the cure being worse than the disease. Why do I need ad supported toolbars and mandatory scan slowdowns in place of Poker popups and replicating trojans? Both bog my machine down, just one is less likely to destroy files (failed bootups notwithstanding). My University uses Sophos. When I must set up a Windows machine, I set up an F-Prot license. I've trusted Frisk since forever, but the application has its glitches certainly.
So much cruft and garish UI is for the fearful neophytes. Not to mention the raft of organized crime promoting anti-spyware spyware with website banners.
I miss Thunderbyte. That was damn good DOS software. TBAV and Shez, a copy of DD.COM from PCMag to manage my files, and Norton Utilities to keep my drives defragmented. Shit, I used to love computers. Now I use a Mac, my typing has gone to hell, and I only love what I can *do* with computers. Totally different thing. :)
our you could just skip the hassle and go straight to CNET www.download.com where AVG eventually sends you for the download and not have to click 30 times to actually download the free version. its even right on the front page under most popular downloads.
because unless you read and understand the source code entirely you really don't know what could be hiding in it.
No. Still not the same.
Because I don't need to understand the source code if there is someone else that does. It's a kind of herd immunity.
Sure, you can sneak your malware on to a server like what happened with ProFTPD, and you may get away with it for a few days. But not everyone is Ken Thompson - able to hide a backdoor in the Unix C compiler for decades.
--
BMO
Yes, and we'll also never be able to play the majority of PC games ever again.
I really wish people would stop saying "lololol get Linux no more viruses". No shit, I think by now a lot of us know that Linux has far, far less in the way of viruses and malware compared to Windows. The problem is that it also has far less software that some of us want to use.
Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
It's a decent product, takes some mucking about in the station settings to get it just right, but man, bloat-city. I can't believe how much crap they keep piling on: there's now an AVG "gadget" that floats on the desktop with amazingly intuitive features like a big "Fix" button. Umm, really? A gadget for anti-virus?
Also, this isn't the first issue: we had dozens of SBS 2003 servers run out of non-paged pool memory and crash. Guess what the culprit was? AVG's network IDS driver from AVG 8 that didn't properly uninstall after an upgrade and had to be manually removed. That was alot of fun troubleshooting. So we've decided not to renew any clients with it. It's a shame: it was so promising prior to version 8: it was lightweight, inexpensive, centrally-managed (essential for businesses), etc.
body massage!
Heheh, you are SURPRISINGLY close :)
My last name is, in fact, _UCK, but it's not pronounced like "fuck." I say how it's pronounced and people say "oh, I thought it was like ..." and then they blush. Apparently, no one can think of any OTHER four letter words that end in "uck" though there are many.
Letters other than F: B, D, G, H, L, M, P, R, S, T, Y
12 letters, almost half the alphabet, create valid words for ?uck.
Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
I still use AVG, but thankfully not on my Win7 machine.
I had to switch an XP machine from Avast when a mandatory update from Avast caused problems on loading Windows a few months ago. Could only boot to safe mode, and uninstalling Avast cured it. Reinstalling did exactly the same thing so I dumped it for AVG
Work machines are all on Norton, which I must say has gotten better in versions 2010 and 2011. /me *DUCKS*
You know, that's not really a dumb question.
When I built my current computer, I decided to go a different way. Instead of the AVG/ZoneAlarm or Comodo/Anti-Spyware blah blah, I went ahead and downloaded Microsoft Security Essentials. I don't use "real time" protection, but scan the system once in a while. At first I was worried because MSE is so damn quiet, although I enjoyed the noticeable jump in performance from not having all this stuff running in the background.
For a while, I'd get nervous enough to boot from clean media and do a very thorough scan with several different tools and it always came up clean. Occasionally, I'd get a false positive, but a little bit of research would straighten it out.
Now it's possible that there's something very evil and insidious growing inside my system and sending spam out when I fall asleep, but my logs and Filemon don't show any suspicious activity. Of course, I've taken the time to set my router up correctly, and I take approximately the same approach to security on my WinXP, Win7, Linux and OSX systems running off this router.
So no, I don't have any real time virus protection running on my system. I'm sure lots of you slashdot readers are very knowledgeable about PC security. Am I kidding myself?
You are welcome on my lawn.
You say you can get infected from "seemingly innocuous" sites. Does that include mainstream sites, like Netflix or YouTube, Demonoid.me or Amazon or blogs like Slashdot?
I always thought that as long as I stay away from dodgy sites, I'm probably not going to get infected.
[yes, I know]
You are welcome on my lawn.
This is slashdot and no one has made a comment about his 110% agreement?
By that logic there's no difference to swimming in shark-infested and jellyfish-infested waters - you could die in either one, so who cares that the sharks are roughly a thousand times less likely to attack you?
(I wanted to make an analogy with some kind of *safe* waters, but.. um... today's internet. Shark-infested it is.)
AVG has had major show-stopping problems since at least version "2009", which would stubbornly hold files open on local partitions and completely prevent them from being formatted in Windows unless AVG was uninstalled. That's the point that I stopped using it, when it denied me the ability to use a fundamental utility in Windows.
No file association or handler for PDFs on this machine.
Which is unlike 90%+ of the Windows systems in existence, so it doesn't say much.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
"you are just using the eyes of other programmers as your antivirus."
Yeah? So? And how is that bad? I also use MD5 sums to compare what I downloaded with what I was supposed to download.
"i am not saying this happens every day, but it has indeed happened before and ProFTPD isn't the first time."
It happens once every few years. I literally can't remember specifically when the last one happened, but I have a vague recollection of it.
Googling, I can find 3 instances, including this ProFTPD one in the last 10 years. Gentoo and Debian were at fault in the previous two.
That's how rare it is.
Compare and contrast this situation with the Windows situation, where there are literally millions of malware signatures, and the number keeps growing every day.
"but ultimately how is that so different than a binary?"
Because *someone* can look at the code. If not me, then someone else. With a binary, you get *zero* chance.
You're really fighting tooth and nail to hold on to that false equivalence fallacy. Sorry, but that's a load of bullshit.
"eyes of the developers and hoping they find the issue in a timely manner."
It's worked pretty well so far. Obviously trying to catch it all at the client side (Windows) hasn't worked at all over the past decade and a half.
--
BMO
And how would you get a virus by just visiting websites?
By "visiting websites" I assume you mean downloading a HTML file along with it's supporting data files such as sound, images, SVG / XML, video, PDFs (via plugin), etc, and displaying the combined content in a browser.
Go ahead and search the web for image/sound/video exploits in IE, Firefox, Safari, and any other browser.
For example, JPG image expolits can infect your computer with malware by simply attempting to decode an image.
Pssst: "Visiting websites" can cause JPG images to be decoded and displayed.
What's that you're saying? Oh, I'm sorry. Let me turn down Counterstrike. And minimize Dead Space. And Metro 2033.
In case you don't catch my drift, Wine works pretty damn well for games - and not just old ones.
The problem is many of your favorite *safe* websites use advertising networks. Some of the networks have virus infected ads without Google or the site owner knowing before it is too late. It has been on slashdot a year or two ago.
More than likely this is when you would haveNoScript off because you trust the site. The malware writers know this and are taking advantage of this too. Even that is not 100% secure.
http://saveie6.com/
Yea no. You don't know what your talking about. Windows IS more virus prone but with just a little common sense it's fairly easy to keep clean.
I only use AVG one place: on my WHS box. I found this site that shows you how to hex edit the installer so you can run AVG on the "server" version of Windows even if that version is actually intended for home/non-for-profit use. MSE so far as I know still doesn't work on WHS either. It's the 32-bit WHS so I'm pretty sure I'm safe from this update. Probably.
"UNIX is very simple, it just needs a genius to understand its simplicity." -Dennis Ritchie
ESET's products are by far my top recommendation. Very fast, except for scanning downloaded files (you want the most through scan on those), stable, good catch rate and nice interface. The regular NOD32 is good, their Smart Security product is also good (I like it's bidirectional firewall interface).
However if zero dollars is the required price then MSE is the thing for you. It isn't quite as good as ESET's stuff, but it is still plenty good and low impact. Supposedly version 2 is even faster/lighter according to the beta testers. Not sure when they are looking to release it.
Hello, Mr underscore-ook?
(If it does not sound like fuck, the only other pronunciation I can think of is ook.)
Also I'm pretty sure you don't own _uck.org, you liar! ;D
Stylish sheet to fix many problems in Slashdot's D3: https://gist.github.com/801524
I haven't run antivirus software in years and I've never had a virus.
I've heard that one from Windows users before. You know what happens when I look into that claim? I find viruses every fucking time.
I used to have it on all my machines. It was good back when it was less popular. Now it's a crappy advertisement for their pay products. When that happened, they worked on crippling the features people like to use. I happen to be between scanners because I uninstalled AVG last month because it wouldn't let me configure exceptions the way I wanted. I can't say I'm sad to see it go, and glad I did it when I did. I just haven't settled on a replacement yet. Though I've managed to never get a virus that didn't get on my computer via sneakernet.
Learn to love Alaska
Windows users, what losers. I use Linux and my penguin protects me with secure defaults (Ubuntu of course). He sits on my egg shell to keep me safe and warm from the nasty Internet.
Me Ubuntu Fan.
Hey look, a cool download.
Downloads.
Clicks on it.
Dialog box says, do you want to run it in a terminal or view contents.
Selects run in terminal.
It ask for password, well of course it ask for password. It needs to be protected from modification from the Internet.
Installs to /usr/local/
Sweet, cool naked ladies screensaver. Ubuntu is so awesome! Real easy just like Windows but secure!
Sir, this is Comcast and we have noticed that your computer appears suspicious. Stupid rep, what do they know, I have a penguin.
My Web Site
Three games being the majority of all games.. My wife still has to use a Virtual Machine in Linux to play all the games we want to and when I tried the Linux switch about 60% of my games worked in Wine, there's also countless MMORPGs that just do not work on wine or a VM. Sorry but Linux is no where close for gaming.
Agreed, you do not simply get worms by plugging a windows box on the Internet, anything pre Windows XP SP2 you can definitly say you would but not anymore.
suck it windows monkeys!
Wine seems to have a problem with punkbuster. Meaning at least for me last year, no CoD MW1 online.
Sorry, when I hear about an AV product totally blowing away a working system due to an update because they didn't test enough, they don't get a second chance. Do they need a computer loaded with every different operating system? No, there's this thing called virtualization that should be able to get at least four if not more versions running on a PC. Yes, it can be a pain to set up. But then you do that sort of thing instead of risking your customers computers to not even being able to boot.
AVG you just shot yourself in the foot. Hopefully fatally.
Bryan
If you use Firefox, try noscript
Uh, it would be a little weird to be Mr. Suck, Guck, or Yuck too (especially in that order)
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Yes people use AVG still. At least one classroom of my school's computer building has it installed on all the laptops. The only thing probably saving them is that it's 32-bit windows.
Me neither, don't need one, don't care :-)
Funny how narrowly I avoided that - I had AVG installed as an inheritance. :)
Itkept bugging me to update, so I uninstalled it yesterday, just in time to avoid the disaster
Counterstrike still exists?
6: Don't use a web browser for e-mail, and don't use your e-mail reader for web content.
What's the problem with web based email? Google scans all my attachments BEFORE they reach my system. On a local email client the attachment will be downloaded before it is scanned. Dunno for sure, but the web based way seems secure.
Also a lot of people use Outlook, and it has been a target for exploits in the past.
7: Don't follow links in e-mails. Cut and paste links if you have to.
What's the difference? People don't look at the link, even when they copy-paste it. The webbrowser should prevent nastiness from getting in in both cases.
Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
I haven't had one virus in years. There is no infection vector you can attack me on either. I used to build some for fun in my pre-teen idiotic years (from my own version of pong using the 21hz INT, to some which self replicated on COM, and later EXE). Today, from time to time I download one of the anti virus & anti spyware and test my machine. In the last 10 years the results has always been the same : Zero Trojan, zero Virus, zero everything. it takes discipline and knowledge but you CAN be without any virus whatsoever.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
The problem is that it also has far less software that some of us want to use.
This is a classic. I've been doing the usual family-support for many years and got my mom over on Linux a few years ago. A few things tend to break during upgrades (ubuntu), but other than that she is a happy user.
My sister uses stuff like frontpage (of all things) and windows movie maker for making compilations of her kids. I haven't looked into proper Linux replacements for a few years, suggestions are welcome. She has had numerous problems with her Windows over the years though, with reinstall being needed several times (she has family in-law to take care of it). I've considered pushing a Mac in her direction, but since I don't use it myself it's hard to recommend.
Software on Linux is getting better all the time. It might be different than the Windows counterpart, but it does the job, and that's all that matters. Most users defend Windows because they don't know any better. A friend of mine recently bought a Mac because he was tired of all the problems with Windows. It was quite the revelation for him.
(Optimally people would switch to Linux instead of Mac, but at least the average Joe is getting used to the notion that Computer != Windows, and I think that's a benefit for any future Linux acceptance and adaption. Pointing out to people that they're already using Linux [on their Android phone] is also a great acceptance boost.)
Life is Reality
The problem with MSE is that it causes latency/sound problems after working for long on systems with high network activity. This problem will definitely affect anyone running uTorrent, for example. Check Google for "MSE DPC latency". This problem exists from the very beginning, MS acknowledged it several months ago, but still there is no fix.
Click this link to make your penis shrink 200%.
It is entirely possible. Even top-tier websites whore out their visitors to advertisers. Just look at a site like Gizmodo, they have like 20 other sites foisting ads, cookies, tracking scripts, and pixels on you. Ad networks do not vet the content that is being served out, so if a rogue 'advertiser' is able to push javascript or a 0-day png exploit out, your IE6-using mom just got ransomwared.
That said, I do not use antivirus, except in a virtual machine to scan highly suspect web stuff. Never rooted or virused. Antivirus is like having a bodyguard that belches and farts and likes to hit you in the arm and grab your girlfriends ass, you are guaranteed to have a bad time to protect against the chance of a real bad time. And I de-malware computers for a living (since software problems are the only consumer-level tech work left, since there is no repair or upgrade when everybody has appliance-level $300 laptops that are relevant about as long as the warranty). About the most Pwned I've gotten was having to kill the browser off because a rogue site got me caught in a javascript click-loop, trying to foist some exe.
A case-in-point is a co-worker of mine (non-techy ex-hippie) who said he was safe because he installed an anti-virus at the request of a website that said he wasnt protected.
Barry: "How do I know what is legitimate and what is not?"
Me: "Its simple. Assume that nothing is legitimate."
"His name was James Damore."
The embedded MOTD screen used some flaw in the embedded IE engine that was able to infect my system.
This wouldn't have happened if you just had logged in as a normal user (in Windows terms; restricted user) instead of administrator. You said:
go as far as to say I think I know what I'm doing.
but actually, I don't think you've taken into account the good practice of NOT logging in as administrator. And before you reply 'but Steam needs administrator rights', I say: Installing Steam on a Limited Windows User Account.
8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
What's the problem with web based email? Google scans all my attachments BEFORE they reach my system.
A scanner only successfully scans for known exploits (and even then may have difficult finding some permutations). The problem is that a large part of infections happens before the AV companies and customers who use their products have definition files that can detect them.
It's because people get infected that the AV companies find out about the problem, so they can react, write, test and release new definitions. That doesn't help everyone who have been infected in the mean time.
And it's not only attachments that is a problem, but rich HTML with embedded content and javascript. Your web browser will automatically evaluate and render web content -- it's its primary function.
And a very nice attack vector for malware.
>>>we'll also never be able to play the majority of PC games ever again.
Haven't been able to play a PC game since I got rid of my Commodore Amiga. I tried gaming on IBM PCs but making the software & hardware work together never worked, so I quit out of frustration. Maybe it's better now but back in the days of DOS/Windows98 it was hell.
So in other words: Switching to Linux is no loss for me.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
>>>Remember the last versions of Netscape?
Yeah they worked better than Innerweb Exploder. In fact the Firefox and Thunderbird you love so much originated as Netscape spinoffs. And Mozilla/SeaMonkey uses the same codebase as FF and TB.
Good point about Opera being "different", although I do like their "Link" function which stores bookmarks online so you can access them from anywhere (home, work, on the road). Also "Turbo" is great for surfing on slow phone or cell connections.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Just for the record (since so many slashdotters have said they have problems), I am reporting that I have happily updated all my machines (one Win7, two XPs, one Win2K) to AVG 2011 and I don't have any problems so far.
In my opinion. the last versions of Netscape were huge bloated and just about unusable. With a terrible interface for email. As I recall at the time I used Eudora for email.
If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
I don't bother with having an Antivirus on the machine that I actively use. I use a systems settings manager. Anytime a registry value changes, added, or removed? I get a popup.
Well, you definitely made me curious. What software package do you use to monitor the registry? I googled registry monitors and got a ton of hits, with no idea which solutions were good.
I'd suggest you don't use Slashdot as your only news source, or you will suffer permanent brain damage.
I'm a photographer, I *need* Lightroom and Photoshop (as well as Nikon's nifty RAW image viewer, as well as some specialized software for film scanning for my Mamiya TLR)
Haven't seen anything even remotely close on Linux ever. Care to enlighten me?
So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
I decided, after my recent hard drive failure, to fully immerse myself into Linux. My PC, among other things, is a gaming machine. I've built it to be that. Having said that, I am quite pleased with how my games are running under Wine in Ubuntu. I'm also very pleased with how easy Ubuntu 10.10 is to use.
Ran an HP update and windows wouldn't load, the auto-repair set me back to a save point and then the update automatically ran again. :(
I changed the update settings and stopped them temporarily, then I see this morning that its AVG. One uninstall later and a quick install of MicroSloth's Security Essentials and we'll see how it goes. Been using AVG for couple years now but this simply will not do. Bye AVG, hello MSE.
(Hope you guys know what you're talking about) :D
@rt
I've got one that is normally hooked into an Antivirus called "Spybot Search & Destroy" - go install that, choose the option for their "Tea Timer" which will monitor the system, and you can remove the antivirus and leave that on there.
"unless you have it locked down like crazy behind a hardware firewall..."
Heh, "hardware firewall"... I giggle a little every time I see a neophyte write that.
Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
If they use an advertising network, any scripts would have to be loaded from the ad servers. Which aren't on my whitelist.
o_o
I don't use it at all - Windows is such bloat code and so slow that I use Linux and don't bother with paid antivirus software. I do however occasionally search my download folder with Clamav - never had a virus for over 10 years so I'm pretty satified that this virus shit is just that: shit
I wasnt aware that Windo$e had a rescue cd - so I can't understand about the booting from CD option is available - I'll have to read up and see what they are talking about - I guess you have to use a different none W64 computer to get to the AVG website!
"I'm a photographer, I *need* Lightroom and Photoshop"
If you need a computer, you're not much of a photographer.
I have everything I need built-in to my 35mm Minolta X700. Every picture I take is PERFECT barring film defects.
I even do my own C-41 developing.
Superior hardware (that happens to be older than I am) blows away crappy software any day, every day.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Can't infect my OS. 1.4MB, boots from a flash drive in just a second, and with the whole thing physically write-protected, I'm solid.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
I'll definitely check it out. Spybot has helped me get spyware off of various machines (owned by relatives) more than once, and I've never had a bad experience with it. Thanks for the tip.
I'd suggest you don't use Slashdot as your only news source, or you will suffer permanent brain damage.
Wow, HELLO, GDI+ exploit! one malicious JPEG parsed in any application *BAM*! Just one example of many. Guess you don't view any JPEGs on the internet do you? I suppose you use absolutely no plugins (Flash, Adobe Reader, Java) in your browser either? Idiots...
grep -iw skynet
Even if you don't use IE as your browser, there are many MS (Outlook Express, Live Mail, Outlook, Office, any app with integrated online help...) and 3rd party apps that use the IE rendering engine to parse HTML. Even when you "remove" IE from Add/Remove programs, its libraries stay in the system because there are numerous dependencies in Windows that require them to parse any HTML.
grep -iw skynet
Is it even possible to have broadband these days and not have a router or gateway acting as a hardware firewall?
And how would you get a virus by just visiting websites? I use noscript and only unblock it for trusted sites, and I certainly don't have Adobe Reader installed (god forbid).
And what kind of email client gives you viruses by opening email? You'd have to run an executable attachment or open a specially crafted data file. I use webmail anyway (doesn't everyone?).
Yeah, you should be fine, just as long as you don't ever browse any sites that load JPEGS or PNGs.
grep -iw skynet
MOD PARENT UP... this is exactly what I'm saying to all these crazy asses that think they're fine because they have a firewall and they run Firefox with NoScript. Once you have a vulnerability in a shared library that's widely used across the system, it practically doesn't matter which browser you use, you're screwed soon as you parse a malicious image in an ad on a "safe" site.
grep -iw skynet
As long as you take that drive out and scan it for viruses booted from another drive. There are rootkits out there that can patch the kernel to completely evade detection from inside of the running OS. I just had the fun of removing the Alureon rootkit from an XP SP3 machine running an up to date version of McAfee 8.5i. Neither McAfee, NOD32, MSE or MRT.exe detected it on the running system. MRT.exe finally found and removed an infected tcpip.sys from the drive when I scanned it from another machine, which I then had to replace with a good copy.
It was a Dell laptop, that coincidentally had an SSD drive with a proprietary ribbon-connector interface. That was fun setting it up as an iSCSI target to be scanned from another machine. Suppose I could've used a WinPE boot cd to scan it, but I was too lazy to read up on the latest XP slipstreaming and product activation evasion techniques. Damn that legacy OS.
grep -iw skynet
The jpeg one was more than 6 years ago and nobody uses MSN messenger.
You're right, but the correct answer would've been ASLR and NX help protect me from shit like that nowadays. I could site other examples, but I'm too lazy to google more. Bit hey, ignorance is bliss, right?
grep -iw skynet
I play plenty of PC games on my linux box- check wine out sometime, it's improved greatly. LOTRO, DDO, Warcraft, Morrowind, Oblivion, Master of Orion, Guild Wars, the list goes on.
"People don't want to learn linux" hasn't been a valid excuse since '03.
Your information is extremely outdated. Maybe you haven't heard, but there's a huge and thriving PC gaming industry with many millions of players and hundreds or thousands of developers. Getting any random game running on a Windows box is a matter of popping in the disc and clicking next a few times while it installs.
Could you list some PC games that aren't virtual treadmills (i.e. muhmorpuhgers)? d:
Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
Morrowind, Oblivion, Master of Orion, Fallouts 1-3, unreal torunament, etc.
"People don't want to learn linux" hasn't been a valid excuse since '03.
True...it is still there, but they still try to make it hard to spot the free link.
They prey on folks that they are hoping either 1) aren't very tech savvy, or 2) are in "panic" mode to install something and will click on the first thing they find.
Back when I stopped recommending AVG was when I had several folks I had sent there and they all got the "trial" version by mistake and not the free version.
You've got to remember, Slashdot folks, not everyone using computers is as savvy as most folks here are. AVG started preying on that by moving the "free dowload" link to the bottom of the page where it was a very nondescript link.
That's also why I'm careful about directing folks to CNET since CNET allows ads on their site that have huge green "click here to dowload now" as part of the ad...and the ad will be something similar (but not free) to the software folks might be looking for.
It's the same trick AVG started using...still offering the free stuff, but making it hard to find how to actually download it without knowing the tricks to watch out for.
-JJS
You say you can get infected from "seemingly innocuous" sites. Does that include mainstream sites, like Netflix or YouTube, Demonoid.me or Amazon or blogs like Slashdot?
Actually, I was referring to any site that I might come across while doing a search. I've come across numerous situations where I'm trying to find information on something and one of the sites I click on is blocked by AVG. I haven't had a well-known mainstream site blocked, IIRC.
*** *** You're just jealous 'cause the voices talk to me... ***