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France Planning Non-Windows Tablet Tax?
An anonymous reader writes "Lots of countries around the world have private copying 'levies,' which are effectively taxes on products that store data, which is put into a pool to be handed out to copyright holders, as a sort of payment for the 'copying' that individuals do. This was quite popular with blank CDRs, for example, but has been expanded in certain countries to cover hard drives, iPods and other such devices. Over in France, they're looking to expand the levy to tablet computers, but apparently if that tablet computer is running Microsoft Windows, it will be exempted from the tax. iPads and Android-powered tablets will have the tax. Why? Well, the argument is that if a tablet is running Windows, it's really a 'computer.' But if it's running one of those 'mobile' operating systems, suddenly it's a brand new category. Not surprisingly, makers of Android tablets — including the French company Archos — are not at all happy about this."
Planing?
Was the initial design of the tax too rough or too thick that it needed planed?
What is Apple's iPad OS?
That should matter here.
So because it's a computer it's unable to distribute copyrighted materials? Now that is some pretty twisted logic right there.
And what the hell does a "clean operating system" mean?
From the Google translation of the French article:
"Windows 7 will not be affected by the fee for private copying, which by definition is adopted touch pads "provided with an operating system for mobile devices or a clean operating system".
Devices like the iPad are just holders and consumers of media. A Windows PC is the usual culprit when it comes to actually defeating copy protection and doing the duping. This seems bass ackwards to me as they should be taxing the computer, not that they should be taxing either.
"I have the attention span of a strobe lit goldfish, please get to the point quickly!"
Maybe we could have gotten a more inflammatory article title to stoke the inevitable posting flamewar. Such as: "France to Apple Fans: Your iPad is a Toy, Not a Real Computer Like A Windows Machine."
Which is pretty much what the summary says. I'm sure that'll go over well.
"Good for microsoft. Legislation is an easier way to get rid of pesky competition than work is."
That's about right..... and no this isn't just an anti-MS slap. Lots of Megacorps do the same thing, like how McDonalds bought an exemption from the health insurance requirement. Don't play on an even field IF you can get lawmakers to give you special exemptions or favorable laws.
FREE magazine : http://clarkesworldmagazine.com/prior/
This has the smell of something that's so moronic that (for real) it will never get very far.
That, and I'm sure makers of non-Windows devices will be exercising the EU court system like it's going out of style.
So people have to pay an Apple Tax for owning a iPod XL (err, I mean iPad)? Yeah, I can live with that.
The world is how you make it
Yea, I think you fail more than them if you run an article through Google Translate and then complain about the writing because you don't understand something.
And the western world takes another step towards corporatism. Wonderful.
That's like saying that every car that isn't Chevy isn't a car (but ironically all can carry people?). Someone needs to strung up for this definition.
Canada has had a copying-tax for many, many years. It's worked very well for the executives of the RIAA and the CRIAA:
What I don't understand, you pay a tax on any digital media to compensate for artists loss of revenue and then you go after people for copying materials via hadopi.
I think we should have one, but not both?
Sounds to me like double jeopardy.
What do you think?
Franck Martin
Avonsys
It's because it doesn't run flash right? AGAIN WITH THE FLASH BULLSHIT?
And what the hell does a "clean operating system" mean?
Means the company that sold it to you, took you to the cleaners.
What about an Ubuntu tablet, like one mentioned in a story on slashdot earlier today?
Fuck the French.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Evelyn Beatrice Hall, re Voltaire
I think too many people here are overblowing the situation. It is not the western world going to shit, corporations taking over the little guy, etc. It's just a bad law, and I highly doubt it is any form of favoritism. The more complicated any rule or plan is, the worse it is (if they have problems with storage, they should just tax all storage media across the board, and not try to specify it based on such details as OS.
Just because the U.S. is a republic does not mean it is not a democracy. Democracy/republic are not mutually exclusive.
And what the hell does a "clean operating system" mean?
It means you're relying too heavily on a shitty machine translation that just picked the first meaning of "propre" it could find.
a lot of cock.
So cake is an entirely new class of food from bread.
This is why these taxes were ridiculous in the first place. Take money from one industry or product to give to another for the crimes that might leverage the first's? This should immediately freak any sane uninterested party right the hell out.
It is really not the place of good government to make "crimes" (unproven) right by stealing from one industry to placate another. If your government does this (and yours probably does), your government is corrupt.
See, see!? Some tablets are more equal than others!!1!one!eleven
If you design a piece of hardware, capable of running Windows 7, but DOESN'T is it a computer? What if it runs Windows 7 in a VM on another OS?
I hate governments more each day.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
Why not take the same approach with the music industry that we took with the typewriter, camera film, and buggy-whip industries?
Palm trees and 8
good work as they are utterly useless anyhow
I do not think it means what you think it means.
.
Prisencolinensinainciusol. Ol Rait!
"The scale ranges from 0.09 euros for models with up to 128MB of 12 euros for those with 64 GB
Article linked from TFA
Thus I suspect 'mobile/clean operating system' is meant to refer to any operating system that can run on a mobile device, and then be used to play music that you probably stole. We all know how the copyright cartels think, why would they intentionally exclude windows users?
Nothing to see here or much to discuss, really, this is just another case of crony capitalism.
In the US(at least for people who aren't suspected of terrorism, or in one of the other undesirable categories) we have a constitutional guarantee of due process of law, presumption of innocence in trial, and such. My understanding is that the EU is, if anything, even more expansive in declaring assorted things to be human rights(if occasionally at the expense of some of the ones that we get touchy about, like free speech...)
How does a "copying" levy, applied more or less indiscriminately to virtually all media and devices, and then paid as atonement for all the sinful copyright infringement presumed to be done with those media and devices, possibly pass "due process"(or any analogous formulation) muster? Is there some way in which making buying a stack of CD-Rs presumptive evidence of partial guilt for hypothetical future copyright infringement, and punishing it on the spot, different than treating buying a knife as presumptive evidence of partial guilt for hypothetical future murder, and making each purchase require a few days in prison?
Why not take the same approach with the music industry that we took with the typewriter, camera film, and buggy-whip industries?
I parsed your post like this:
Storyline is about copyrights
- typewriters can be used to copy text
- camera film can be used to copy images
hmmm, so far this about old methods used in the past to copy things
buggy-whips? WTF?
The French word is "propre".
The most common use of a word spelled that way would be "clean", but here, the meaning is different.
I think what the quote means is that the law would affect mobile device OSs and OSs that were created specifically for whatever device it's running on.
"Propre" would mean "specific"
Or it can actually just mean "proper" as it is a cognate of the English word. This would also make sense since many people do view a mobile OS as not really being a "proper" computer OS considering most mobile OSes have reduced functionality compared to what most people are used to on a full-blown desktop.
In the french text it says "d’un système d’exploitation propre". In this context "propre" means "of it's own". So if it has an operating system for mobile devices or it has it's own operating system (so develloped with the touchpaddevice in mind) it is taxable. Since windows seven is develloped for personal computers this supposedly does not apply.
... even in France.
If you disagree with me on social issues, then it's pretty clear that you are a narrow-minded bigot.
As I say before, it's good to be a PC :3
Apple needs to suffer abit. Smug little pieces of-
A slightly better translation would be "provided with an operating system for mobile devices or a dedicated operating system".
The rationale is that computers make illegal copies on CDs and USB sticks so CDs and USB memory sticks must be taxed proportionally to their the space of storage they offer. Of course this is already silly and was created at the time where CDs were the most common movable storage devices. In order for it to not look too silly, it was made so that the tax would not target computers, as a 100 GB HD would make the tax ridiculously high. Then it was extended to devices that could be plugged to computers and provide storages. It sound sensible when applied to MP3 players, like the iPod, as their main use is actually to listen to music. Then came some devices with very high storage space, the design of a computer but the possibility to be seen as a USB storage.
This law was silly to begin with but now that it is a bit too blinding they will change it. Bah, it will have lasted a few years already and netted the music labels several millions.
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
MS is going to announce an OS for ARM-based tablets, Lots of people have assumed that it will be a derivative of the desktop OSes. However, it seems more likely that it would be a derivative of WIndows CE (like Windows Phone 7). Until more details come out, we won't really know.
If it is CE, why should MS be treated differently from other OSes?
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
What is Apple's iPad OS?
That should matter here.
iOS, formerly iPhone OS, is the operating system for iPad. It is related but different and distinct from Mac OS X. The French could make a similar exception for Mac OS X as they have for Windows 7 and iOS and Windows CE would still be taxed.
all this tax would tell me is that it's A-OK to pirate as much music as I want, as long as i put it onto the taxed media.
Those of us who think they know everything annoy those of us who do.
If I purchase blank CD's, DVD's or hard drives and I got charged a "Piracy Tax", I would consider that my payment to copyright holders and I would pirate all I wanted.
They have no way to prove what I will be using the media for. If I am doing business backups than copyright holders are getting money from me for not pirating anything.
However there is one, and only one way that I would happily accept such a tax... Is if in adding this tax, copyright holders could no longer file lawsuits against anyone for copyright violations. That their ONLY course of action would be to fill out forms and submit them to the federal government to get some of that "Piracy Tax" money.
"And what the hell does a "clean operating system" mean?"
Linux doesn't qualify as a "clean operating system"? In whose twisted world? (Besides the French?) In any case, perhaps they felt that Microsoft's own tax on OEM systems (in which the "privilege" of selling a system pre-bundled and non-opt outable Windows install cost is born by the consumer, thanks Bill) was tax enough?
Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
Everyone knows it is much easier to pirate music and films on a real computer compared to a tablet.
If anything the tax should be the other way around.
This is one of the most important things for supporters of Free Software to understand: businesses are subsidized by the tax code. All businesses, even the terrible ones. Especially the terrible ones.
It doesn't matter which country you're talking about. The economies of nearly every Western government are equally hosed up in the same ridiculous way. Tax agencies assume that everything an individual purchases is consumed, and that everything a corporation purchases is an investment. As far as taxing authorities are concerned, a Windows computer is an investment. It is capital. It fits the obsolete model of production that governments know: labor + capital == profit. When you buy anything as a business, you write it off your taxes and pat yourself on the back.
A non-corporate, non-business operating system, on the other hand, is a toy. It's a distraction, a hobby. Governments consider it not to be an investment, but a consumer item. Same goes for an Android phone. It's assumed to depreciate in value. A Windows phone, though, is for business. It's assumed to produce value. Nevermind the fact that most Windows phones are unproductive toys, or that most Windows computers are inefficient cludges. Nevermind the fact that free and open source software can be orders of magnitude more efficient and productive than proprietary, closed source software. Windows is a capital investment. Free software is a toy.
The result should be obvious. Responsible, non-consumer individuals are punished. Wasteful, non-producing companies are subsidized. Long term investments in things like open standards are discouraged. Short term speculation is encouraged.
It really is as simple as that. Governments don't consider it further. The idea of a Windows computer running a nuclear power plant, therefore, seems perfectly natural. Debian? A toy. Red Hat? One of the most expensive operating systems ever. They are 99% the exact same code. One is a tax write-off produced by a legitimate company. The other is a toy produced by a bunch of hobbyists. In the US, we see all of these crap small businesses that can no longer afford their rent. Corporate real estate is about to take a dump all over itself. Banks are over leveraged, and it turns out they own no real assets. They were subsidized. They bought a bunch of consumable junk like Windows computers, shoddy houses and uninsulated office buildings, wrote it off as a brilliant investment, and waited for the profit to roll in. Unfortunately, everyone else did the same, all the real assets went overseas, and now the US economy is utter crap.
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
In this context "propre" means "of it's own". I was about to point that out, but it seems you beat me to it. ;-)
To everyone else: never forget that translators are never flawless, humans and non-humans alike.
"The body may heal, but the mind is not always so resilient." -- Deus Ex: Human Revolution
The rationale is that computers make illegal copies on CDs and USB sticks so CDs and USB memory sticks must be taxed proportionally to their the space of storage they offer.
[snip]
I thought this was too devious for Microsoft to dream up on their own. But is it possible for the French government (or any government) to be more devious than Microsoft? Reminds me of a visit to the optometrist: which is better, #1, or #2?
Gary Dunn
Open Slate Project
If I was copyright holder, how would I go about getting my share?
Does any of this money ever get back to the artists? Do the govenments keep it? Do the record companies keep it?
After all the parties have taken their cut, I can imagine the artists get very little of this. But I'm a cynic.
Probably because Windows tablets will probably include heavy handed DRM out of the box and the French think that will keep people from sharing... um, er stealing.
So what you are saying is if a company (ie arm) makes the effort to run windows (version 3 looks possible) on their hardware through software emulation then they don't have to pay this tax? Companies are rather good at finding loopholes in laws, where doing so means big money. I would think if someone offered a bounty for this, that you'd get it.
Wait! We need a tax on paper and pencil and pens and inks and leather and papyrus and scrolls and rocks and clay tablets because all of those are used by people or have been used by people to make copies! More government greed.
A tablet running Windows is actually a computer?
Really?
Windows is what makes a computer, huh?
You go France, no wonder we make fun of you these days.
Be seeing you...
In this case "propre" kind of means "of its own", i.e., an OS that'd be specific to the device, like the Blackberry OS is specific to Blackberry devices. That doesn't really make the meaning of the definition any less idiotic of course. I would say the intent was to separate devices on which you can install a different OS than the one it came with, but in the end it's still a case of politicians having no clue of what they're talking about.
Why not add a tax to all paper products and writing implements while you're at it? After all someone might COPY something from a book, newspaper or magazine, and OH NO we can't have that now can we? After all, if an MP3 file, which uses lossy compression and is therefore an inferior, degraded copy of sounds is an illegal copy for which you get the living fuck sued out of you, then something you write down on a piece of paper that someone else copyrighted is also a degraded but still illegal copy, right? Why not put a tax on the HUMAN BRAIN because it's got memory, too, and we can REMEMBER what a song sounds like, even though those memories degrade over time? Shouldn't they get some money for that, too? Hey, here's an idea: let's tax the air we breathe, because sound waves carry, and someone who didn't PAY for the content might actually hear it with their ears, connected to their brains, and they'd remember what it sounds like, therefore that's an illegal copy, too, isn't it? Quick! Someone copyright the MOON, backdated 10,000 years, and make every living person on the planet who has ever looked up into the night sky pay a fee because they looked at The Moon © 2010 MPAA!
There's only one real solution: we need to have technology that completely wipes people's memories of everything copyrighted they ever hear or see. It's the only way!
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
If I purchase blank CD's, DVD's or hard drives and I got charged a "Piracy Tax", I would consider that my payment to copyright holders and I would pirate all I wanted.
The U.S. has such a levy/tax on blank audio recording media, adopted as part of the Audio Home Recording Act of 1992.
IOS is actually what runs on Cisco Routers
I thought IOS was what ran on the CPU in the Wii console's northbridge.
my server is Unix (does not apply), my netbook is Windows (does not apply), and I have no use for a tablet.
Until the netbook and tablet sectors merge and someone tries selling (GNU's Not) Unix tablets. Oh wait, this has already started to happen. Then once your netbook breaks, the successor to your netbook might be a tablet.
stop being a turd
Please. He's complaining that they fail because Google translations of their language don't make sense to him?
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
Most spanish language newspapers publish this day news in the same vein that is April Fools, but in this case, is just Sarkozy's usual stupidity.
Mexico: 100% conservative's America now!
Even phones are computers. They'll decimate laptops and desktops the same way laptops decimated desktops earlier. ..if the makers disagree, and right they should, they should ship the tablets with Ubuntu in a dual boot with Android, even if Ubuntu is only there to make it cheaper.
My captcha is "windows" :(
From what I have heard about Windows 7 on a tablet, these people are unfortunate enough to have to run Windows on their tablet. Surely you wouldn't want to make them even more miserable by making them pay a tax on it. I am glad that French lawmakers show some compassion with the unfortunate victims.
AccountKiller
Aside from the obvious that as someone else stated these laws assume that anyone buying these products is guilty or that the innocent must help pay for all those evil copyright infringers there's a couple things that I've never understood. If governments are collecting this tax money, who or what organization are they turning it over to that decides what artists get reimbursed and by how much for the illegal copying of their works? Do artists / studios have to file paperwork stating that their works were illegally copied and ask for a specific amount of monetary reimbursement?
As has been covered extensively here, studios claim outrageous damages from file sharing and one trial awarded damages against Jammie Thomas in the amount of $9,250 per infringed work so are studios trying to recoup that money from the fund and do the artists in question actually ever see any of that money? Also does the government get to keep a share of the money collected for the work of collecting it and disbursing it?
It just all seems highly suspicious to me.
So, the tax is also on iPods, even the nano, Shuffle and classic. Can someone explain how you use one of those devices to pirate music? I know how to do it on any Windows PC, but last time I checked there was no Kazaa, LimeWire, Bittorrent or for that matter any 3rd party apps whatsoever on those iPods.
Actually France is showing the finest mix of incompetence and corruption in the latest internet/copyright laws.
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
Windows won't be taxed because they figure you've suffered enough already.
Have gnu, will travel.
gives me a headache thinking about it.
French: "ou un systeme d'exploitation propre"
Correct translation: "or an OS of their own" - understand: an OS that has been made specifically for the device.
I guess google translate is not subtle enough yet to discriminate the different meanings of "propre" in french.
Sucks for TENQ's new Ubuntu powered tablet.
This news should be posted on FailBlog.
My god, they're french! There's nothing you could possibly do about that! They're just dumb, like this tax!
Governments should resist becoming developers of commercial products. Collecting taxes is a better business anayway.
an ill wind that blows no good
Probably because Windows tablets will probably include heavy handed DRM out of the box and the French think that will keep people from sharing... um, er stealing.
You seriously want to use that argument when it is being compared to the likes of iOS? Sheesh!
If you define Mobile OS tables as devices because they aren't running a general purpose OS, remind these people that a rooted tablet does is a general purpose computer. Meaning Androids and iPads could be tax-except if they surrender their root password to their user. That could turn out to be a good thing.
Alas, it could, it won't.
But... the future refused to change.
No grep, touch, strip, finger, mount or fsck.
That's why Apple's OS is X rated.
The U.S. has such a levy/tax on blank audio recording media, adopted as part of the Audio Home Recording Act of 1992.
The U.S. has such a levy/tax on blank digital audio recording media -- but today it essentially only apples to CD-R Audio discs, not ordinary CD-R discs. CD-R Audio discs would be used in consumer electronics audio recorders, which by law will reject recording on "computer" CD-R discs.
.... Microsoft has failed yet again to produce a 'mobile OS'.
Have gnu, will travel.
we developed this lebron Vi Converter which makes sharing lebron Vi to be a simple program.
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Thanks goodness I tried vibram five fingers kso gray black .
This kind of mbt m.walk green shoes can add some youthfull appeal to your image when you wear them.
I did run into someone who said cheap Daniele De Rossi jerseys she kept losing her balance while wearing them!
dunk shoes is my favourite.I owned many of them.
Actually it's not a "microsoft subsidy" or anything.
When came the time to create that tax on blank media, they were faced with a problem: what about corporate equipment such as NAS, with an insane amount of storage space, or work computers ?
So to get around that, they instated some rules.
For example, for NAS, they looked at what was available at that time (yes, they are that shortsighted) and said "well, we can distinguish between Pro NAS and consumer NAS because pro NAs work with at least threee operating systems, whereas consumer NAS do not".
So for NAS equipment, that's the limit.
I guess there is something that says "if the storage medium is in a computer (a machine that runs a full blown OS, like Windows, MacOS or Linux I imagine, or some dumb criteria like that), then it should not be taxed (simple way to not tax work computers).
Tablets running Android or iOS do not fit in that category. therefore, the embedded flash or hard drive is taxable.
Tablets running Windows 7 do fit, they are not taxable.
It's not a new law designed to favor someone. It's the usual problem with laws: they are written to fit the day's circumstances. Not too bad in general (laws usually get a pretty long shelf life...), but a disaster when applied to a fast moving field like technology, by uniformed people who cannot fathom the pace at which it moves, while being pushed by lobbyists.
That is not to say it's not bad. I'm just saying it's not a conspiracy...
again, because they had the naivete to elect a right wing government. right wing governments are always pro-corporation, anti-people in any given country.
Read radical news here
In this sentence : "[...] munies d'un système d'exploitation pour les terminaux mobiles ou d'un système d'exploitation propre", "propre" means "their own" or "custom".
It could be translated "(tablets) running a mobile operating system (Android, iOS) or a custom operating system".
Once more, it reveals that those who make laws about our electronic lives understand little or nothing about technology.
It is interesting to analyze what is implied in the article. As example, shows that if Windows 7 is considered an operating system "clean" by the music industry, then that means he has the mechanisms to prevent copying "unauthorized" content and/or prevent the user from doing anything the industry does not want, while others have no such restrictions.
One more reason for me not to install Windows 7.
Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
Or is that just too simple for these "dialects"?
hoven?! :D
Just to point out the logical inconsistencies of these fees:
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
Wouldn't it be illegal to tax someone for "personal copying" considering that you are allowed by law to make a personal copy?
If you don't make a copy of anything onto your memory stick, where do you go to apply for your refund of the tax?
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
Maybe, to the French legislators, the only clean operating systems are the one that are certified compatible with the HADOPI-mandated spyware. Just thinking...
cpghost at Cordula's Web.
ios is really OSX with a different user interface...which makes it as much of a computer as anything else. And of course Android is linux essentially with a different window manager. Those silly French people humor me.
(oct. 2009)
Being French I loaded up "ma andi dondi fransay a englay translator" from Tandi (nous peux do it, oui mais sur). I can safely say the correct francais to english translations is thus:
Yep, we surrender, pass the cheese, next... (corporation we can surrender to).