Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Motorola Sticks To Guns On Locking Down Android

Posted by samzenpus on from the take-it-or-leave-it dept.

jeffmeden writes "'These aren't the droids you're looking for' proclaims Motorola, maker of the popular Android smartphones such as the Droid 2 and Droid X. At least, not if you have any intention of loading a customized operating system. According to Motorola's own YouTube channel, 'If you want to do custom roms, then buy elsewhere, we'll continue with our strategy that is working thanks.' The strategy they are referring to is a feature Motorola pioneered called 'e-fuse', the ability for the phone's CPU to stop working if it detects unauthorized software running."

82 of 600 comments (clear)

  1. What a great way to die by aliquis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Hundreds of thousands of potential costumers go "ok."

    1. Re:What a great way to die by Aerorae · · Score: 2

      Right. Hundreds of thousands.

      Not millions. So an enormous company like Moto can do without them no problem.

    2. Re:What a great way to die by chaffed · · Score: 4, Insightful

      However, for that to happen, people need to care.

      For the vast majority of the smart phone crowd, they do not care. Just as long as they can get that "urgent" work email, post a picture of their lunch and tweet about how tired they are in the evening.

      --
      What could possibly go wrong?
    3. Re:What a great way to die by nurb432 · · Score: 2

      Most consumers don't even have a clue what is being discussed, or care. As long as they can make calls, surf and buy stuff they wont know the difference.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    4. Re:What a great way to die by TheRealGrogan · · Score: 4, Informative

      I despise Motorola and their rubbish. My parents had motorola phones previously, and they were so proprietary they wanted $90 for a program just to let us transfer pictures from the phone to the computer.

      I dicked around (for hours) trying to get a home grown solution working and finally just gave up. It involved installing a driver from motorola (deeply buried on their web site), and a third party app for accessing it. All it did was hang. What I learned (but wasn't sure if I believed) was that even the USB cable was proprietary and while it was the same connection as a camera cable, it was wired differently.

      So I don't particularly care what they say and do, there will be no more Motorola devices in this household anyway.

      The folks have since switched to Blackberries.

      Long before this, I hated Motorola for their shitty modems. Some of the worst rubbish that I have ever had the pleasure of tossing in the garbage.

    5. Re:What a great way to die by Duradin · · Score: 2

      Hundreds, probably. Thousands, possible. Hundreds of thousands? Delusions of grandeur much?

    6. Re:What a great way to die by Asten · · Score: 2

      I've pretty much exclusively had motorola phones since high school. Not always great, but always well built... The phones that required Phone Tools were in a time where everyone's was proprietary. A long time ago, I was trying to coax another charger into charging my razr faster. I read that the 'official' USB cable has an extra pin which is required for accessories, but any normal USB cable worked once they went to MicroUSB... I've used random cables on my RAZR, V3XX, Q9h, and Milestone and they all work fine. It was the old weird flat wide connector that was proprietary.. but then again, so was everyone's at that point. Pretty much everything these days is super easy. Plugging in the latest android phones are awesome - you simply use a web browser, or a file manager and can get to everything on the phone. That said - I'm a hacker, so I probably won't go with motorola next time around as I want to put my own roms on. This attitude of theirs doesn't really seem to have any point to it. Taking it off hurts nothing at all. Leaving it on costs them sales. Maybe not tons, but a sale is a sale. Why go out of your way to lose sales?

    7. Re:What a great way to die by udoschuermann · · Score: 2, Insightful

      At least they're not pulling a Sony on us, selling the things as open and then revoking the ability, after they scammed us out of our money. But it looks like I will not be buying from Motorola again from now on.

      I wonder what company wants to go on my (permanent) blacklist next...

      --
      --Udo.
    8. Re:What a great way to die by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Informative

      There are something like a million downloads of cyanogen mod. Even if that is the same folks downloading each release you are still looking at hundreds of thousands. That is one ROM, not all of them.

    9. Re:What a great way to die by aliquis · · Score: 2

      Your numbers are a little off. The Droid brand sells tens of millions of devices a year.

      Someone else said 99% of the people wouldn't care.

      But yeah, maybe the 1% who do care and the 0.25% who would had eventually bought the Motorola and the 0.05% who decided they won't now when Motorola decides as such won't kill it :)

      Bad suicide attempt? =P

      And the people who buy it to install custom OS on it or even know what an "OS" is, are tens of thousands.

      Ah, ok.

    10. Re:What a great way to die by Microlith · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And this apathy is what they're all banking on. They can tighten down the screws and leverage the masses an excuse to do so. This is true for Microsoft, Apple, Motorola, and every vendor that forces you to root.

      They want to do this to PCs, and I expect the push and attack on standard, uncrippled PCs to step up in the next few years. It's far more profitable that way.

    11. Re:What a great way to die by dlgeek · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In other words, a manufacturer is selling a product that does exactly what the vast majority of it's customers want.

    12. Re:What a great way to die by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Are we really so weak that we absolutely cannot do without a smart phone until manufacturers actually start giving us what we want? I mean, we're the goddamn customers. Vote with your feet.

      Some company's going to do the right thing and that's the phone you buy. That's all. You're not going to die if you wait a few more months to buy an Android phone. Or, you can do what I did, and buy a wi-fi only handheld device and use your regular phone because who wants a phone with 4 hours of battery life anyway? Do you really want to have to run to an AC outlet as soon as the plane lands so you can make a call just because you wanted to watch two movies on a cross-country flight?

      There is power in being a consumer, and it's astounding that people have been so diddled by advertisement and marketing voodoo that they won't even consider using that power to get what they want.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    13. Re:What a great way to die by AchilleTalon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Since the vast majority of the smart phone crowd just don't care, why did Motorola spent so much time to make sure they have a technology to prevent it? I mean, if peoples don't care, there is no reason to make sure they can't. And for the rest of us, what's the problem?

      --
      Achille Talon
      Hop!
    14. Re:What a great way to die by postbigbang · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I have a Moto Droid 2. I rooted it. It works FINE. Not bricked. It's using at most, a nice tethering app. Does all I want.

      If I wanted a playground, I would have bought a park.

      This is my experience. Yours will vary.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    15. Re:What a great way to die by ScrewMaster · · Score: 2

      There are something like a million downloads of cyanogen mod. Even if that is the same folks downloading each release you are still looking at hundreds of thousands. That is one ROM, not all of them.

      I was going to say the same thing. Sooner or later some vendor is going to release a handset with Cyanogenmod on it. Until then, if I can't run my Cyanogen, I'm not buying your handset.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    16. Re:What a great way to die by vux984 · · Score: 2

      I despise Motorola and their rubbish. My parents had motorola phones previously, and they were so proprietary they wanted $90 for a program just to let us transfer pictures from the phone to the computer.

      Most of the BS there was related to the carriers telling motorola what the software could and could not do. The carriers wanted to sell ring tones, and screen backgrounds. So motorola's phones that were more than capable were told not to. And the software that let you do anything at all to bypass the carrier etc was priced by the carriers.

      As for the handsets and accessories Motorola was 'proprietary' the same as anyone else, but they were the least of all annoying to deal with. Tons of phones used the same battery, even from generation to generation. Connectors for charging were only changed 3 or 4 times over a period of 10 years. Contrast that with some other vendors who had a different charger for every 2nd phone.

      Motorola was on mini usb and micro usb standards right at the front of the line, well before several other vendors finally broke down. (And even today some still require some bizarre proprietary connector.)

      Motorola phones historically tended to be well built... the from the old 8000s to the DPC550/650s to the StarTACs to the Razr line. They had their misses too, and their tech has been lagging a bit lately in features. But the droids appear to be doing alright, so they are on the right path.

      You are entitled to your opinions, but Motorola is not the first company I'd choose to pick on by a long shot.

    17. Re:What a great way to die by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Posting anonymously because I work for a company vaguely related to all this.

      The only purpose of this is to allow them to use the next version of Android as a selling point ...

      I'm not entirely sure that's true. I've been watching this for a few years, and I have this weird impression that this is all because wireless carriers, like cable companies, need to feel ... special. And that's really all there is to it.

      Really. Take cable companies. Comcast wants to be your main squeeze, selling you a DVR and a selection of channels, and not just be a dumb pipe through which bits flow. Because deep down, that's all they are: a bit pusher. If it really came down to it, you could get (or build) any old DVR, and/or stream Hulu and Netflix, and/or do the torrent thing. It's all just data, so that's really all Comcast is: a bit pusher. And let's be clear: being your personal bit pusher would be a great job for a cable company. It's vital to the economy. But the cable companies don't want this job, even though they already have it and are making a killing on it. They think it's beneath them.

      The wireless carriers are the same way: they want to be special. They're not mere bit pushers (even though you and I know they really are, and even though we know the bit-pushing job is perfectly respectable and important). No, they want you to love them. Verizon, for example, wants you to really HEART the fact that you have a Verizon phone with a stupid red checkmark as its default wallpaper. And Motorola is catering not to you and me, but to these poor, sorry carriers who don't want to accept that they're just bit pushers, and want to feel loved.

      OK, end of rant.

    18. Re:What a great way to die by rk · · Score: 5, Funny

      What's wrong with Angry Birds? I run that all the time on my Droid running CyanogenMod-6.1.2 when I have a few minutes to kill and don't feel like reading, thankyouverymuch. Rooting your phone and mindless entertainment are not orthogonal activities, after all.

    19. Re:What a great way to die by eggnoglatte · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, you can keep telling yourself this - everybody who doesn't want exactly what you want clearly doesn't have a clue.

      Here is a reference point: I am a computer scientist, I've been using Linux both professionally and privately on the desktop for almost exactly a decade now. But the very last thing I want of a phone is yet another device to upgrade or configure a kernel for, or worry about malware and viruses. Locked down sounds pretty good to me. I just want to have access to email wherever I go, I don't buy a lot of apps (I have 4 total), and I am not going to start developing for the darn thing. There is only so much time in a day, and the phone is one device that I don't want to have to fiddle with to have it work.

    20. Re:What a great way to die by MareLooke · · Score: 2

      If this would happen a certain supposedly irrelevant phone company (let's call it Nokia), would be smiling...

    21. Re:What a great way to die by gmack · · Score: 3, Interesting

      They have that and it's called GeeksPhone. The price for mine was better than Google's developer handset and even though it originally came with Android 1.5 they have provided 2.2 (Froyo) and 2.3(Gingerbread). It comes rooted and their forums will happily help you with whatever mod you want to attempt.

      I no longer care what Motorolla or anyone else does because I have a phone that does what I want.

    22. Re:What a great way to die by Haeleth · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Some company's going to do the right thing

      I admire your faith in humanity.

      Or, you can do what I did, and buy a wi-fi only handheld device and use your regular phone

      Which is totally useless if the reason you are interested in a smartphone is so you can, I dunno, use the internet everywhere or something. Maybe you live in some magical land with free wifi everywhere and you never go travelling at all, but most of us aren't so lucky.

      Do you really want to have to run to an AC outlet as soon as the plane lands so you can make a call just because you wanted to watch two movies on a cross-country flight?

      You watch movies on your phone? How strange. Most of us use the movie-watching device handily built into the seat in front, or a laptop if we want to bring our own.

      There is power in being a consumer

      Yeah, like there's power in being a voter. But I don't see many supporters of minority parties celebrating because their interests are being represented in Congress.

    23. Re:What a great way to die by sveinungkv · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What do you think is the most likely reaction of a politician when he hears about this technology that makes it impossible for a user to change the software on his devices? Will it be to ban it or to make it obligatory so the government can put stuff in your firmware. (Only to be used against terrorists and pedophiles of course. (At least in the beginning. (At least officially.)))

      --
      Spelling/grammar nazis welcome (English is not my first language and I am trying to improve my spelling/grammar)
    24. Re:What a great way to die by uglyduckling · · Score: 2

      Has it occured to you that people might by products because they like them? I spent GBP 600 last year buying my iPhone 4 outright. It wasn't becuase I was 'deceived', it's because it helps me manage my life, stops me missing meetings, keeps me connected and entertained. Since I first bought a Palm m100 10 years ago, I've always invested in technology that will do those things. Right now, nothing has been released that gives me a compelling reason to switch away from my iPhone, and my iPhone does everything I want it to do, never crashes and never gets in the way. You might have reasons why you care about how 'open' your phone is, but the vast majority of people are no more bothered about that than they are about how 'open' their microwave oven is.

    25. Re:What a great way to die by sveinungkv · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There is power in being a consumer

      Yeah, like there's power in being a voter. But I don't see many supporters of minority parties celebrating because their interests are being represented in Congress.

      The beauty of the free market compared to democracy is that you don't need to be in the majority to get what you want. The majority can buy from Motorola and others while you can freely buy from the those that cater to you. Personally I have an OpenMoko Freerunner. If you want something newer you could have look at GeeksPhone, Nokia 900 or one of the many other phones out there to see if they are free enough for you.

      --
      Spelling/grammar nazis welcome (English is not my first language and I am trying to improve my spelling/grammar)
    26. Re:What a great way to die by PsychoSlashDot · · Score: 2

      Are we really so weak that we absolutely cannot do without a smart phone until manufacturers actually start giving us what we want?

      As with most things in life, it's not that simple.

      This isn't a question about what we want versus what we don't want. It's a question about what we want versus what we want more. If there's a product out that does most of what I'd like it to do, in most of the ways I'd like it to do them, do you really expect me to not purchase it in the hope that the manufacturer will read my mind and somehow know I'm holding out for a couple function changes? Boycott doesn't work in and of itself.

      --
      "Oh no... he found the .sig setting."
    27. Re:What a great way to die by mcvos · · Score: 2

      For the vast majority of their customers, Motorola *is* doing the right thing.

      Motorola is investing time and money in features that can only harm their customers. In what world can that possibly be "the right thing"?

  2. Is that a challenge? by intellitech · · Score: 2

    Don't test the masses, especially the ones that know what they're doing.

    --
    vos nescitis quicquam, nec cogitatis quia expedit nobis ut unus moriatur homo pro populo et non tota gens pereat.
    1. Re:Is that a challenge? by Seumas · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The ones who know what they're doing aren't the masses. They're the ignorable minority.

    2. Re:Is that a challenge? by teh31337one · · Score: 5, Informative
      The e-fuse has a 1024 bit RSA key. Good luck trying to brute force that.

      But if you want to waste electricity, you can sign up for the efforts to brute force Motorola Milestone - their first phone to feature this draconian lockdown.

    3. Re:Is that a challenge? by mug+funky · · Score: 4, Insightful

      i get quite annoyed at the constant arrogance and elitism on /.

      sorry to burst your bubble - this isn't an elite site, and the "99% of the masses" argument is pure shit that i hear everywhere all the time, in many different disciplines.

      whenever someone asks me to recommend them a TV, the conversation will lead to "nobody would ever notice that", but yet we're talking about it and a choice about what to buy is being made based on it.

      what do the masses do when they need advice? they ask that nerd friend of theirs. if the nerd has communication skills slightly above the lower end of the Autism Spectrum, the masses will even get a useful answer.

      be honest, how many times have you heard a friend say something to the effect of "i'm looking for a smartphone but i don't want an iPhone... what should i get?".

      consider each time someone asks that as a lost sale for Motorola...

      i don't think it'll kill their business, but their overall crap products certainly are having an effect, and political issues such as this (yes! political! not technical and therefore outside the grasp of the average simian on the street!) will certainly make a large dent in the long run.

    4. Re:Is that a challenge? by mea_culpa · · Score: 5, Informative

      That link is for the old project.
      Here is a link to the new AndrOINC Project

    5. Re:Is that a challenge? by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Quite the opposite, we're very uninteresting as customers.

      Do we buy ringtones? No, we know how to make our own (provided we care about them altogether).

      Do we buy background pics? No, same applies.

      Do we buy applications? Rarely. More often than not, we'd know a free alternative.

      We're not really the dream customer of someone trying to peddle phone crap.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  3. Dump your Motorola stocks by Ariastis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A company who tells its clients to go buy from someone else is usually on the way out...

    1. Re:Dump your Motorola stocks by Bogtha · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Apple have this exact attitude and they just posted a record revenue of $26bn for this quarter, beating Wall St estimates by $2bn. Looking at their iPhone sales alone, they are the largest mobile phone vendor in the world by revenue. They have $60bn in cash reserves and no debt.

      All other things being equal, sure, more customers = more profit. But all other things are rarely equal, so summing an entire company's future up into one single factor is idiotic.

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
    2. Re:Dump your Motorola stocks by vikstar · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Apple has the opposite attitude. They don't say "buy elsewhere" they say "by our stuff instead because ..." and then continue with 20% truth.
      Motorola's mistake is that they're telling people to "buy elsewhere" instead of just lying to everyone like Apple does.

      --
      The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than the question of whether a submarine can swim.
    3. Re:Dump your Motorola stocks by fredmosby · · Score: 2

      Calling those examples lies is a stretch.

      In the first example the TweetDeck CEO said that developing their product for Android wasn't a nightmare. Of coarse Steve Jobs never said it was. He cited a report by TweetDeck about how manny different versions of Android their software was tested on.

      I don't think apple ever denied that holding the iPhone 4 a certain way could harm reception.

    4. Re:Dump your Motorola stocks by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      I don't think apple ever denied that holding the iPhone 4 a certain way could harm reception.

      No they simply lied by saying all other phones have the same problem. The lie is that it's not the same problem. I certainly don't suddenly drop my call when I pick up my phone. My father's iPhone 4 does, and he spends his time upstairs with better reception.

      Seriously even fanboi elitism should have a little meat to back up the argument.

  4. "Then buy elsewhere" by SquirrelDeth · · Score: 5, Informative

    Fine I will.dumbasses

  5. Great! by fotbr · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Let 'em fail. It wasn't that long ago that motorola could barely GIVE their phones away.

  6. Dumbfounded...... Can anyone explain? by Proudrooster · · Score: 2

    Why would Motorolla do this? Are they experiencing warranty returns on bricked phones? Are carriers pressuring them not to allow unlocks? What is the driver behind this decision? I think it is reasonable to put in a warranty void e-fuse if the phone gets bricked by another O/S, but why do they care?

    1. Re:Dumbfounded...... Can anyone explain? by LBArrettAnderson · · Score: 2

      Carriers who don't want you using more bandwidth than you are paying for.

    2. Re:Dumbfounded...... Can anyone explain? by Spykk · · Score: 5, Insightful

      e-fuse doesn't stop you from rooting your phone and installing wireless-tether. e-fuse is there so that Motorola can stop releasing kernel updates when the droid 3 comes out so that you are forced to buy a new phone if you want the latest version of android.

    3. Re:Dumbfounded...... Can anyone explain? by h4rr4r · · Score: 2

      Stop, just shutup. This cannot happen. The OS just talks AT commands to the cellular modem. It can't do any magic bad stuff.

      This is FUD you heard, no reason to go spreading it.

    4. Re:Dumbfounded...... Can anyone explain? by h4rr4r · · Score: 2

      That is exactly how it works. Android has no functionality to do anything else. My android phone is no different than my linux laptop with a USB cellular modem in this respect.

    5. Re:Dumbfounded...... Can anyone explain? by MrBandersnatch · · Score: 2

      "e-fuse is there so that Motorola can stop releasing kernel updates when the droid 3 comes out so that you are forced to buy a new phone if you want the latest version of android"

      They don't need e-fuse for that; they simply either cancel any update plans for the phone or make you wait so long for an update that your contract expires before they deploy it to the phone. I've had this happen with my Milestone and x720 and believe me that these will be the LAST Motorola phones that I buy for myself or my family or allow any friends to buy. While the argument may be that the masses don't care, when looking at phone options there often is very little difference between 1 model and the next, hence a reputation for prompt, frequent and long terms support for a handset IS going to feature in the purchasing decision on a large number of users and Motorola have shot themselves in the foot from that standpoint (i.e. They will not supply updates and e-fuse will prevent (in theory) users from updating their hardware).

      e-fuMoto!!

  7. Misleading Headline. by mjwx · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is not locking down Android, this is locking down a Motorola Handset.

    Hardware lock down, not software. Pretty big distinction.

    But Motorola has jumped the shark. HTC are offering better handsets and MotoBlur is a complete joke. I liked my Milestone too, but due to Motorola's insistence on locking it down I wont be buying the Milestone 2. HTC Desire Z looks a lot better.

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    1. Re:Misleading Headline. by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What's the practical difference though ? The big advantage of Android compared to iPhone, I'm always told, is that it's open and there are so many different models to choose from. But what remains of those advantages when you have to eliminate a lot of phones because they are just as locked down and then have to research the remaining models to see which can be rooted, what the difficulties are, etc. ?

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    2. Re:Misleading Headline. by h4rr4r · · Score: 3, Informative

      That you can get a Nexus and have the open experience. No iPhone model like that.

    3. Re:Misleading Headline. by mjwx · · Score: 2

      What's the practical difference though ?

      Please tell me I don't have to explain this to you.

      Sigh

      Because other Android models are not affected. Very big difference there.

      The big advantage of Android compared to iPhone, I'm always told, is that it's open and there are so many different models to choose from. But what remains of those advantages when you have to eliminate a lot of phones because they are just as locked down

      Well this sends a message to the manufacturer that something is not right with their product.

      It's called the positive benefits of compeition. It's not just Motorola and HTC, there's aslo Samsung, SonyErikson, Huawei, Meizu and so forth. Where one vendor fails, the others take over.

      This is so completely unlike IOS where the manufacturer dictates what you cannot do on every IOS device it's not funny.

      Besides, Motorola have already retracted their previous statement so it looks like the system(TM) is working. Motorola is responding to outside pressure and changing their policies, this is something Apple never has to do so if Apple screws you, you stay screwed.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    4. Re:Misleading Headline. by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      The point is there is more than 1 single choice. There isn't for the iPhone. There's MANY phones out there that will literally let you install anything. I could write my own program right now and have it running on my phone without issue and it's not a Google Nexus S. I may get told what OS I run on my not rooted phone, but that's where things end. I'm free to install what I want. Heck just for giggles I typed "porn" into the app market search box. 180 results, one of which turns the phone into a vibrator, the other changes the wallpaper to a different naked ass every hour. Didn't find what I'm looking for? Fuck it I'll go to a different app store.

      Not being able to completely dissect every intricate bit of code in the OS is NOT the only reason that Android is a more open platform.

    5. Re:Misleading Headline. by andydread · · Score: 2

      If the choice was only between 1 handset and Apple the Nexus S is Open and Iphone is closed. Thankfully there are more than one choices to get an open phone. The Dell Streak is also open. No locks. Dell is not going anywere anytime soon either.

  8. Re:or not by richie681 · · Score: 2

    Http://on.fb.me/dEwySY is what that's supposed to be.

  9. Bootloader Feedback Policy by Vap1d- · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Seems that sentiment was pretty quickly retracted. http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=495971028278

    1. Re:Bootloader Feedback Policy by BabySledge · · Score: 2

      As well as a compromise mentioned...http://www.androidcentral.com/motorola-disavows-youtube-comment-says-its-working-bootloader-compromise

  10. Re:Who should I buy from? by teh31337one · · Score: 4, Informative

    Go for the Nexus S - they're the most dev friendly. You'll also find that HTC phones are also supported pretty well, even though they have a similarly draconian nandlock in place. It's just been cracked :)

  11. Re:Who should I buy from? by teh31337one · · Score: 2
    RFS is only the beginning of the problems, and has been eliminated. (Voodoo, speedmod, z4mod, tegrak etc)

    Propitiatory drivers and Samsung messing around with the code are the main problems

  12. Re:welcome to the future by martin-boundary · · Score: 3, Insightful
    That's why the GPLv3 is so important. There are two trends going on here: there's locking down of software to prevent hacking and keep monopoly control on the devices, but there's also the use of free software components.

    Without free software to do the heavy lifting, the phone manufacturers wouldn't be able to compete at the same price point in the market, so free software developers actually have some leverage to prevent lockdowns in the future.

    But for that, the community must be smart and use the right kind of license, eg GPLv3, but not BSD. If the Linux/embedded systems developers drop the ball and continue to use the wrong kinds of licences (GPLv2 is not good enough), then the future you talk about will certainly happen.

  13. The word 'e-fuse' doesn't mean what you think by pslam · · Score: 5, Informative

    The strategy they are referring to is a feature Motorola pioneered called 'e-fuse', the ability for the phone's CPU to stop working if it detects unauthorized software running.

    Oh not this bullshit again. This was first published by an ill-informed "hacker" a while back and regurgitated by every blog in the world with no fact checking.

    • Here's what an e-fuse is: a write-once programmable bit.
    • Here's what they're typically used for: unique IDs (serial number), RAM repair (mark bad rows etc), feature selection, keys, miscellaneous factory config things.
    • Here's what you find with e-fuses in them: almost every CPU in the world, probably all of the SoCs used by Motorola's competitors, probably every SoC in every cell phone.
    • Here's what they're not used for: bricking devices.

    Motorola has even stated very clearly that they never intend to completely brick a device if it detects an unauthorized ROM. It'll just need restoring. The SoCs Motorola uses are in no way pioneering e-fuses. Someone just read a gigantic amount of conspiracy into the tiniest of press release. This is OLD technology. Can this lie please go away?

    1. Re:The word 'e-fuse' doesn't mean what you think by Tacvek · · Score: 5, Informative

      Correct. The actual technology here is TI's M-Shield, a feature of the OMAP processors. Motorola was just one of the first to use it in a noticeable application. M-Shield which lets OEMs burn a public key into a set of ordinary e-fuses, which the processor will use to verify a boot-loader signature, falling back on a recovery firmware if the signature is not valid.

      --
      Stylish sheet to fix many problems in Slashdot's D3: https://gist.github.com/801524
  14. Re:Minority Opinion... by stoborrobots · · Score: 2

    Carriers get to decide which devices are allowed on their network.

    In the GSM world, carriers don't get to decide which devices are allowed on their networks. They get to issue subscribers (people) with identification modules (SIM), which can be placed into any compatible device (phone, computer, or otherwise) and the device can then authenticate and talk to the network.

    --
    "Go to CNN [for a] spell-checked, fact-checked summary" -- CmdrTaco
  15. Re:welcome to the future by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Without free software to do the heavy lifting, the phone manufacturers wouldn't be able to compete at the same price point in the market, so free software developers actually have some leverage to prevent lockdowns in the future.

    Here's a newsflash for you: Google created Android to make sure they have a presence in the lucrative mobile market and could care less about "open" and "free." The reason Android was released as open source is to take advantage of the geek word-of-mouth (or geek internet press) and the geek anti Apple backlash. There won't be any "leveraging" done. I guess this is the point where a a bunch of disillusioned geeks get together and vow to create a 100% pure open(tm) alternative (ETA: 2015.)

    --
    If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
  16. Re:Which smartphone for OS development? by teh31337one · · Score: 3, Informative

    Nexus S

  17. Re:welcome to the future by icebraining · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Android's core is composed of the Linux kernel and the Apache Harmony libraries. They don't get to decide the license of those - and any code of the kernel they modify and distribute _must_ be released under the same license (GPLv2).

    If Torvalds et all changed the kernel's license to GPLv3, Google and the phone manufacturers would either have to comply with it or stop upgrading.

    So thinking that Google holds all the keys is wrong.

    --
    Dilbert RSS feed
  18. Update to article by Georules · · Score: 4, Informative

    This article needs an update. Motorola has already officially apologized for the youtube admin's tone.

    1. Re:Update to article by John+Jamieson · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think they said they were sorry... is that the same as an apology?

      I really think they are only sorry that this is a big black eye, and is going to hurt in the morning.

      "The response does not reflect the views of Motorola." can be translated as "our responses should not piss off customers"

      This just seems like damage control to me, an apology means they are sorry about What they have done, not just sorry about the consequences of a poorly worded but truthful response.

  19. Fractional Users by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 5, Funny

    That isn't what they are saying, it is just what the 0.0000000000000003% of users that might want to install their own OS

    Got a little carried away with the zeroes there did we? Even if everyone on the planet owned a Motorola phone that would be about 20 billionths of one user who is understandably going to be rather upset when several thousand brain cells attempt to install their own OS.

  20. Why is Nokia still sleeping? by 2Bits · · Score: 2

    With all these manufacturers working hard on locking down, why is Nokia still sleeping on N900 and its successor and Meego/Maemo? Nokia should have taken its leadership with a series of N900 followups. That thing is the best ever.

  21. Why I don't buy vendor supplied phones by woboyle · · Score: 2

    I have made it a policy that my hardware is MY hardware, and if I want to futz with it, then that is my prerogative. So, now that I have an unlocked Nexus One, I have decided that I will NEVER purchase a phone from my mobile service provider again. Unfortunately, that kind of makes it necessary to use GSM phones since I can simply stick my SIM card in the phone of my choice. But, as far as I'm concerned, that is a small price to pay for freedom of choice on the hardware side of the equation.

    --
    Sometimes, real fast is almost as good as real-time.
  22. Re:welcome to the future by M.+Baranczak · · Score: 4, Informative

    We've been over this. Torvalds can't change the kernel to GPLv3, because the copyright is owned by a thousand different contributors.

  23. Re:welcome to the future by Daniel+Phillips · · Score: 2

    Google created Android to make sure they have a presence in the lucrative mobile market and could care less about "open" and "free."

    Speaking as someone who would know, there is a significant faction at Google that actually cares about open and free. Larry and Eric sometimes lose the plot, but they get reminded.

    --
    Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
  24. Re:welcome to the future by Daniel+Phillips · · Score: 2

    He says he can't. Different thing entirely.

    --
    Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
  25. Dirty Secret - Carriers want this, not Motorola by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Motorola does not want to lock them down, the carrier(s) are forcing them to. I have inside info from a dev about this, and I've argued with him about it at length angrily. Unfortunately, their hands are tied, it's the carrier's way or the highway.

    If you want to be upset at anyone, be angry at e.g. Verizon. People need to fight the carriers on this, it's about our freedom!!

    1. Re:Dirty Secret - Carriers want this, not Motorola by ToasterMonkey · · Score: 2

      People need to fight the carriers on this, it's about our freedom!!

      You guys are really sucking the life out of that word

  26. Hint: They Ain't Sleepin' by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    You might want to hold a mirror up over Nokia there.

    Yes the body is still warm, but that doesn't mean much.

    Oddly, I think you'll find that the rigor mortis was cause of death, not caused BY death...

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  27. Re:welcome to the future by Daniel+Phillips · · Score: 2

    He says he can't. Different thing entirely.

    Unless all the developers of any code specifying a version number of GPL come around then he most certainly can't change the license, and given the response from a number of key devs that is unlikely to happen.

    That survey is almost 5 years old. A lot changed in the interim. GPL v3 got widespread uptake, showing the mood of the developer community, and a number of companies have taken high profile and flagrant advantage of apparent loopholes in GPLv2. It's usually a mistake to speak in absolutes about what Linus will or won't do. There is nothing stopping change of license for *new submissions* in files where all authors of that file agrees. If Linus rules this is allowed, then it will be allowed. And bad actors like Motorola are just bringing that day closer.

    --
    Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
  28. Re:There are plenty of tech savvy who don't care by ppanon · · Score: 2

    Sure, but we'll see whether you still feel that way if Motorola stop supporting your phone with upgrades after 2 years (or less), telling you to upgrade and leaving you stranded at whatever version you're at, even though newer versions would run fine.

    I'm using a stock 2.2 Froyo ROM on my Canadian Galaxy S and I will probably keep it that way until either the warranty runs out or Samsung refuses to make an upgrade available. At that point it will be nice to know that I can flash a newer custom ROM on it and either continue to use it or pass it on to my sister or my son. While security is the claim for ROM-locking phones, in the end it's just too useful to manufacturers to enforce planned obsolescence for it to not wind up being used that way.

    --
    Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
  29. Apple doesn't sell a commodity by rsborg · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Motorola plays in the commodity Android space. You know, where features rule and competition is fierce.

    Apple doesn't play by those rules and makes up their own... but they write their own OS, design their own chip, and create a unique product out of the whole mess.

    Apple "gets away" with their arrogance because they have something other companies don't... and consumers like what they have.

    What has Moto done lately that HTC or Samsung can't match?

    --
    Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
  30. Re:Who should I buy from? by jonwil · · Score: 2

    Get a Nokia N900. No firmware locks at all and more open than any Android handset.

    Oh and if you do for some reason want Android, there is a N900 port at all.

  31. Open or "open" by leuk_he · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Androids big advange is that is is open (compared to iPhone). All apps can run upon i without approval from the apple app store border. That does not make iPhone bad, it can still give a very good expierence.

    But if you have an adroid phone, that is supposed to be open , and then you start locking a (big) part down, then you are limping: You don't have the advantage of an completely open platform and you don't have the advantage of closed expensive controlled fantasy environment of the iPhone.

    If you do a thing, do it good. iPhone is a good closed platform.
    Android is a good open platform.
    Motorola is good at ?? making deals with carriers???

  32. Re:WTF?! by Asic+Eng · · Score: 2

    They want a way to obsolete phones. Users might want to have a new Android version, and Motorola wants to be able to force a new sale. Maybe not every time, but whenever they choose to. That's also something ordinary users can understand, even though they might not care about installing some custom version of the OS: this phone may not be upgradable, a phone from another company would be.