Did the Chinese Military Use Top Gun Footage?

heidaro writes "'As part of its ongoing expansion, has the People's Liberation Army signed up Goose and Maverick? Chinese bloggers are accusing state broadcaster CCTV of using re-purposed footage from the 1986 film Top Gun for a story on a recent air force drill.' Is it just me or are communist nations very skilled at embarrassing themselves?"

Comments

Now you've done it

[Chrisq]

Now you've done it ... just wait for Slashdot to be blocked from China!

Re:Now you've done it

[LWATCDR]

Well let's be honest. This is for domestic consumption and it isn't like any news services in china will pick this up.
A few people in China will find it because it is so badly done. Those that bother to say anything will simply say that they used some stock footage.
It is at best amusing to us but will not matter a bit to the Chinese.

Re:Now you've done it

[davester666]

You all have it backwards.

Top Gun used secret military spy film of their jet planes, stolen from China.

Re:Now you've done it

[LWATCDR]

While a funny also impossible since the plane shown being blown up was a Northrup F-5.
To make it work you would have to include how China stole US made F-5s and used them in their weapons tests. To make it even better the F-5s would be piloted by MIAs from the Viet Nam.
Make some effort after all.

What does communist have to do with it?

[Rinnon]

Seriously, I don't see what being communist has to do with embarrassing yourself. Capitalist nations embarrass themselves pretty damn often too.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[MightyMartian]

The difference being that most capitalist nations are democracies, and everybody rather expects that impermanent governments are going to bugger things up. I'd say fuck-ups are the life blood of democracy.

In states like China, where the government asserts that it knows best, these sorts of stupid stunts have somewhat more dramatic connotations. Particularly in this case, it not only raises the question as to what kind of people it has in its military and PR that think it's a bright idea to rip off footage from a Hollywood film, it also raises the more important question as to why they would even need to.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[nicholas22]

Is it just me or are communist nations very skilled an embarrassing themselves?

It's that extra little trolling that gives those extra few more page views and that make me that extra little bit more reluctant to waste my extremely limited time on slashdot.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[h4rm0ny]

In states like China, where the government asserts that it knows best

The US and UK governments assert that they no best through a never ending flood of requirements on educational practices, telling Doctors how to practice, how to manage land, what drugs and herbal remedies are legal and illegal, how local authorities may spend their money. There's no end to it really. In the US, it even decides who may or may not vote! All of which are direct assertions that they know best.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[h4rm0ny]

Your terrible grammar nullifies any argument you may have had.

I wrote 'no' instead of 'know' the first time I used it. That's not an error of grammar, it's just typing too quickly. It really has no bearing on any argument's legitimacy and I doubt you'd "nullify" an argument that you agreed with on those grounds.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[MoonBuggy]

By voting for representatives, you are seen as having had your say - it's not "the government" making the rules, it's "the people" doing so by proxy. Or so the theory goes.

Those in power might well act as if they know best, but at the end of the day they are, to some extent, beholden to the people. We can and do get rid of them if they piss us off too badly. I know it doesn't work that well, but it's still a damn sight better than being told "We are right, if you disagree you are a dangerous subversive, and there's not a thing you can do about it.".

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[Zeek40]

The difference is, in the US or the UK, if you feel that you have a better idea than the government you can run for office and try to change things. In China, if you feel that you have a better idea than the government, you're sent to a re-education camp to convince you otherwise.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[Culture20]

Yeah but communists are inherently retarded, so it's extra funny. Have you seen their baseball?

I think you forgot that Cuba is communist. They play great baseball.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[forkfail]

We've got "Mission Accomplished".

So... yeah...

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[forkfail]

if ( m_comment.IsTrollish() ) { (troll*)(&comment.GetAuthor())->Feed( false ); }

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[Quiet_Desperation]

Sorry, but there are few things more retarded than typo Nazis.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[mangu]

provided feedback on what he likes / dislikes about Slashdot

GP said "make me that extra little bit more reluctant to waste my extremely limited time on slashdot", which is evidently a lie, since he uses his "extremely limited time" to post on Slashdot.

I think "fuck off" is a pretty reasonable answer to such a blatant lie.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[operagost]

That should tell you something about where our federal government is headed. "Small" and "limited" are probably not adjectives I would use.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[Lumpy]

You mean like the entire presidency of George Doubleya Bush?

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[euroq]

First of all, I think you meant to cast the Author into a Troll, not the return value of Feed into a Troll.

((Troll*)(&comment.GetAuthor()))->Feed( false );

Second of all, that is an unnecessarily complicated way to cast it by dereferencing the item, and then using pointers. It probably would have made more sense if GetAuthor() returned a pointer (then it could possibly be null sometimes), but that is not the case. The easiest syntax, then, would be as follows:

((Troll)comment.GetAuthor()).Feed(false);

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you really thing that a government body is THAT stupid? Its probably misinformation to look stupid - a very common political tactic, especially if you cross it with the current spotlight on whether or not they created a space plane. Just look at it this way: how does this make you perceive them, as a gut reaction - I know my first reaction was "well if they doctored footage with Top Gun as a basis for avionics propaganda, surely they couldn't have a space plane"

My tin foil hat has multiple layers - for foil-penetrating mind-control.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[royallthefourth]

The difference being that most capitalist nations are democracies,

You're making a false distinction here. China is ruled by a nominally communist party and doesn't have open elections, but the actual form of the economy is quite capitalist. There's huge factories with workers getting paid $10/day to work 16 hours in horrible conditions with no union. The factory is owned not by the state or the workers, but by a billionaire living in Shanghai. For the peasant farmers living in the country, they have little access to electricity, running water, medicine, or education. The state provides them with nothing and sometimes even takes their land to hand directly to real estate developers.
Nothing communist about it.

Also, the various dictatorships of the Middle East and South America from the past and present century were/are nearly all capitalist. What's the king of Saudi Arabia? A communist? Franco? Pinochet? Qaddafi? The kleptocrat nepotist Mohammad Karzai? Just a democratic facade. I don't have time to prove you wrong about the majority of capitalist economies existing in democracies, but it's a huge and highly suspect assumption.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[cdp0]

The difference is, in the US or the UK, if you feel that you have a better idea than the government you can run for office and try to change things.

Do you really believe that ? I mean really, give it a try. Without money, without support from "big business", nobody will ever hear about you. And even if people hear about you, you won't be one of their favorites, mostly because they don't know you. Running for office involves much more than just the will to do it.

And the kind of people that have the will, the money and the support are in the game for power, for their own benefit, not for ours.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[Belial6]

In theory they are doing so by proxy. In practice, they are not. Yes, if you piss enough of us off, we could vote out the individuals, but our country isn't run by individuals so much as by corporations. The Democrats and the Republic parties being the two front organizations. Dictatorships, Monarchies, etc. can also have their governments replaced if they piss off enough people. I would guess that it would be a lot easier to raise an army of 100 people willing to take part in violently taking out the current leadership than it would be to raise an army of 100 million people to try to vote the same individuals out. Even if in both cases, the majority of people are really pissed off. Word of mouth can be used in small groups to organize. Organizing 100 million people requires speaking to them. Speaking to them is by definition mass media, and our mass media is controlled by the very people that would need voting out.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[forkfail]

And this is why we have code reviews ;)

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[xnpu]

The dumbasses at CCTV that show Top Gun and call it the Chinese Army are pretty similar to the dumbasses at CNN that show Nepalese police and call them Chinese soldiers.

The point is that most Chinese won't recognize the Top Gun footage, much like most Americans can't see the difference between Nepalese and Chinese uniforms.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[davev2.0]

Oh really? Then, explain how Obama went from biracial kid from broken home being raised by his grandparents to "community organizer"/lawyer to senator to president.

Or, you can admit that you are wrong and STFU.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[anotheryak]

Seriously, I don't see what being communist has to do with embarrassing yourself. Capitalist nations embarrass themselves pretty damn often too.

Because this is the state controlled media. This is like catching Number 10 or the White House talking about their new border security system, and showing a picture of the Great Wall of China.

For those readers who were around during the Cold War and old enough to remember it, things like this were not uncommon, state-controlled media that was a mouthpiece of the government making various claims about great technical accomplishments that were later found to be faults, sometimes laughably so. Like the Soviets claiming they had invented baseball and television.

It's harder to get away with this in the western world. People can demand evidence. You can't do this in China. The government is the evidence.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[scot4875]

Pointing out one exceptional, contrary case isn't really the best way to "prove" someone is wrong.

--Jeremy

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[ashidosan]

Too bad you had to be an ass about it, or I'd have modded you up for this.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[pixelpusher220]

small caveat:

Democracies are designed to replace the people and the laws that make up the government.

Monarchies/dictatorships, not so much. The only option is overthrow of the entire thing.

you *can* overthrow a democracy, but its built to be able to do the same thing while still playing by the rules.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[Blade]

Maybe that's true in the US, I can't comment. It's not true in the UK where it's entirely possible to get 'involved in government' with nothing more than drive and local support. Whether one MP can achieve anything in the House of Commons is another question entirely, and whether being an MP let's you influence much other than your own expenses claim is beside the point.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[pixelpusher220]

'Can' doesn't imply easy nor should it.

But you can't claim that the ability to run for office in US/UK is in any sense comparable to China or other undemocratic govt's.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[toadlife]

Do you really believe that ?

Yes. My wife is interested in running for office in the future. She knows plenty of people in the state Democratic party leadership here. They have told her that if the time is right (someone retires/scandal/etc) she could easily get funding and a staff to start out.

It's all about knowing the right people and having the right qualities (being electable).

Yes, corporate money has dirtied the political process, but that doesn't make it impossible for people who actually care to make it in politics.

Whiny, defeatist attitudes like yours only help to perpetuate the status quo.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[Duradin]

If the argument is a "for all" or "there exists no" case a single contradicting example is all you need to prove them wrong.

He said "nobody". Since Obama exists the "nobody" fails.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[iceaxe]

The primary problem with representative democracy is that often a majority of the people ultimately in charge (the voters) do not understand the issues at hand. Instead, they vote by 'gut feeling' which is easily manipulated by parties with sufficient resources.

Nonetheless, in the end the failures of a democracy are the fault of the people, and those failures seem to me to be somewhat less awful than the failures of autocratic systems.

Also, the success of propaganda lies not in managing to fool the perceptive, but in fooling everyone else sufficiently to make the cries of 'foul' disappear in the general noise. I suspect that the Chinese propagandists in this case were successful in that aim, but we shall see.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[atticus9]

I don't think being communist has anything to do with, but it is something to see a super power use "Top Gun" footage and represent it as actual footage of their military :D

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[DarkVader]

He got noticed early on by corporate supporters?

Seriously, look at his record. He's done nothing at all that would hurt his corporate support base.

I voted for Obama. I'll end up voting for him again. But it's not because there aren't better choices out there, it's because while the Democrats spend most of their effort kissing up to their corporate masters, the Republicans are pure fascist/corporatists, who would reduce our people to the level of the Chinese people in a heartbeat, purely for profit.

And under our current electoral system, third parties don't have a chance.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[StikyPad]

People think they can't affect change because they can't just throw their hats in the ring for POTUS or US Senator, but it's relatively easy to get involved in local and state government. On the up side, these are the places that tend to set policy that affects the lives of people directly, but on the down side, you're unlikely to get your face on national TV unless you're embezzling money or somebody dumps 5 million barrels of oil on your coast. But if you're in it to make a difference and not to become famous, then state and local governments are where it's at.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[StikyPad]

Well sure, but take a look at their polo club and you'll be hard pressed to stifle a condescending little chortle.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[Culture20]

Their Starcraft tournament champions give me an all-out guffaw.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[Belial6]

Small democracies are designed to replace the government without overthrowing it. Ours is not that kind of 'democracy'. Plus, over throwing a monarchy or dictatorship is playing by the rules. The is the rule for replacing those kinds of governments.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[Belial6]

Why, if you want to rise in power in China, you get in and please the party. In the US, there are two parties you can get into and please, but that doesn't make it a whole lot different.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[Myopic]

Would you say that any law at all is an assertion that "they" know best? Or would you not say that?

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[Opportunist]

At least he can read. The teleprompter, mostly.

It seems to me, Obama's biggest advantage is that after 2xBush, we got pretty easy to please. We don't expect any big advances or good administration, we're already happy if the fuckups are small enough to just flinch instead of cringe.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[pixelpusher220]

News to me that democracies of different sizes are in fact different 'types' of democracies. There are different 'types' but that is entirely independent of their size.

Our system fully allows the replacing of the gov't within the rules. ie. the Constitutional Amendment process, regular and orderly elections.

over throwing a monarchy or dictatorship is playing by the rules.

Certainly not the monarch's or dictator's rules...which is the rules of the gov't in question. So this is patently false.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[pixelpusher220]

Um, no. In China you aren't even 'allowed' to be in a different party. There is only one.

We have numerous political parties here of which two are decidedly dominant. That does not preclude someone from outside them getting elected. The Tea Party was a pretty significant phenomena that showed other ideas than those of the two parties can be made into a movement. (not trying to start a 'what is the Tea Party' discussion). Ross Perot showed that independent(ly wealthy) candidates can successfully challenge the system as well.

Again, hard does not equal impossible. You simply can't be elected, by law, if you aren't a part of and agree to the rulings of the (only) Party in China.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[Johann Lau]

Well they needed someone to "look to the future" instead of hanging the war criminals that ought to be hanged, he took the wind out of the impending revolution, so he was put in office.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6Jbnq5V_1s

Or, you can admit that you are wrong and STFU.

Fuck that, and fuck you. OP is correct. Feel free to show otherwise. One single example would not even suffice if it DID show what you seem to think it shows (which it doesn't, Obama was a triumph of the PR industry, "the first black president" hahahah)

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[davev2.0]

And what, exactly, is preventing anyone from getting "noticed early on by corporate supporters"? At the time the article was written, Obama had raised over $600 million. How much did the corporations contribute? I noticed that the article didn't say. It did say that Obama got "over $740,000" from Goldman Sachs. So, how much corporate money did Obama have at that time? How much did he get all told? What was the percentage? Come back to me when you have some actual numbers about CORPORATE donations, m'kay?

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[turbidostato]

"It's all about knowing the right people and having the right qualities (being electable)."

Well, you could run for the public office in China over exactly that same standards.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[mr_mischief]

One word: Chicago.

Those fuckers can get anyone elected to anything, even the dead ones. Sometimes especially the dead ones.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[mr_mischief]

Shit. In China, people the party doesn't already like aren't even allowed to be party members.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[h4rm0ny]

What do you mean "In the US, it even decides who may or may not vote!". Does the UK let everyone vote (incl. children, non-citizens)?

In the US, your right to vote can be taken away from you by means of prosecuting you for a crime. And in fact a lot of people, typically from poor backgrounds, are disenfranchised in this manner.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[h4rm0ny]

I wouldn't. Laws based on protecting individual rights, e.g. assault, theft, etcetera are not about "knowing best" in this sense. But some other laws are. And indeed a lot of the things that convey these attitudes aren't laws at all, but merely conditions the government requires you to meet in order to get a licence / approval / funding.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[h4rm0ny]

GP said "make me that extra little bit more reluctant to waste my extremely limited time on slashdot", which is evidently a lie, since he uses his "extremely limited time" to post on Slashdot.

It is possible to be reluctant to do something and yet to do it willingly, thus it is not evidently a lie.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[Belial6]

If you don't recognize that organizing 100 people is an entirely different process then organizing 100,000 people, then there isn't much more to discuss on the matter. I would say, yes. A democracy of millions is a different 'type' of democracy than one of several hundred thousand.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[dbIII]

I don't know where you have been for the last twenty years but China is currently the most capitalist nation there is.
Think about it for more than two seconds and look past that label to what is actually happening. If you want to dig a coal mine on your land and only pay what the cheapest workers will take which country will let you and which country will stop you in a dozen ways? China has many examples of raw uncontrolled capitalism (such as the libertarians dream of) which would be halted or held back in a democracy. It is unlikely that for example the weekly death toll of Chinese coal miners would be tolerated in the USA but that's what you get with uncontrolled capitalism while the government looks the other way.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[microphobe]

Creating a basic level of standards and practices is hardly telling people what to do.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[Max Littlemore]

What's this left/right bullshit all about anyway? He makes some good points. As an outsider, I can see that a lot of republicans are clearly fascist. The last Republican administration in the U.S. was clearly fascist. Look up up fascist, find out what is means.

If we are going to play with those archaic notions of "left" and "right", I would suggest that the current Obama administration is centre right and the Republicans are far right.

You are so far left that pointing out how you are wrong would do no good what so ever.

So do you have a point to make, or are you just abusing people? Only that's the kind of "argument" that the folks who vote fascist use.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[Max Littlemore]

No, I suggested you go and look it up. Look up what the word actually means. I'm not making a value judgement about fascism, just pointing something out. In that archaic left/right paradigm, the US has been leaning to the right since at least the 1980s compared to the international mean. Not being from the US, I don't easily fit into your narrow world view, but if you must try and fit me into this model which has outlived it's usefulness, you could perhaps call me a radical centrist.

And again, you have not really made any points or put forward any arguments. Not too bright are you?

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[thegarbz]

Oh that's cute. So tell me, which government can I vote for in Australia that isn't hell bent on introducing an internet filter? Which government can you vote for which will bring and end to the stupidities in Iraq? Which government can the UK vote for to end pissing taxes at the wall to pay for a CCTV system that is essentially nothing but a money sink?

We are not voting representatives. They do not represent us. The hung parliaments in the UK and Australia are a clear picture that what we currently have is not a democracy.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[RancidPeanutOil]

spelling, not grammar, and there's certainly a punctuation problem there, but still, no. There is a difference. Grammar Nazis are the least well-educated of all of our nazis.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[aanton]

The difference is, in the US or the UK, if you feel that you have a better idea than the government you can run for office and try to change things.

Do you really believe that ? I mean really, give it a try. Without money, without support from "big business", nobody will ever hear about you. And even if people hear about you, you won't be one of their favorites, mostly because they don't know you. Running for office involves much more than just the will to do it.

And the kind of people that have the will, the money and the support are in the game for power, for their own benefit, not for ours.

I'm afraid you are not paying attention: you feel that you have a better idea - which is quite plausible. You also can try to change things which is also very correct. I think you can also do that in China, Egypt, and any place with sufficient oxygen.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[dave420]

You're kidding, right? In the UK it's not the government that tells doctors how to practice, it's other doctors. It's also doctors and scientists who figure out what drugs are legal and illegal, and it's local authorities who determine how to spend their money. You seem to think it's guys in suits making all this stuff up, when clearly it's delegated to experts in the various affected sectors.

Get a fucking grip.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[dave420]

Most of the CCTV in use in the UK is privately owned, and therefore not paid for by the government.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[Lumpy]

Yup..

I overheard this at work a year ago...

"at least obama can walk, talk, AND chew gum all at the same time unlike the last 3 presidents."

Clinton had an excuse, chasing that much intern tail is distracting.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[Myopic]

If a criminal commits a crime, let's say theft, then I'd say it is reasonable to assert that the criminal "thinks it is best" that he steal the thing. Thus, the law is "them" (the government) telling the criminal that "they" know what is best.

Do you disagree with that? This is interesting to me because I've often spoken with certain kinds of thinkers who cannot wrap their mind around my assertion that of course the government tells you "what they think is best". It's sort of the entire point of the law, from my perspective. And yet, I haven't completely given up on the possibility that I'm really missing something, some really good point that underlies the notions held by those thinkers, which could turn around my opinion on the matter. Can you convince me? Or try?

To me more clear, "laws based on protecting individual rights" are great because I believe in individual rights -- most likely, the same individual rights you believe in. But, still, that's you and me saying that we know better than others which rights are held by individuals. I never make arguments which say "Oh, that law is stupid or invalid because it is just the government telling me how to live my life", because ALL laws (in my understanding of the law) do that, and I'm not willing to discard with the entire notion of law.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[h4rm0ny]

What you are seeking to do is distinguish between two categories of restriction. For examples, a law preventing one party assaulting another, and a law preventing one party selling unlicensed herbal remedies to another party. This is off the cuff and unexamined, but I would say that the distinguishing criteria is that in the former category, the restriction is with the consent of the affected parties, and in the latter the restriction is without the consent of either party. So in a scenario where one party does something to another that the recipient doesn't wish (robbery, assault, contract violation, whatever), we do not say that the government is saying "they know best" because at least one of the parties agrees with the government - that is to say, the government is no longer a "they". But in a scenario where the recipient wants to receive the action (selling of desired product or service, exchange of information, etc.), we do say that the government is saying "they know best" because both parties agree that the government is very much a "they".

I hope that is of use.

Regards,
H.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[thegarbz]

Most of the CCTV in use in the UK is privately owned, and therefore not paid for by the government.

Irrelevant. It doesn't change the fact that a large portion of it is owned, bought and paid for by the government:

There are now 10,524 CCTV cameras in 32 London boroughs funded with Home Office grants totalling about £200million.

Though one could argue that since they are using them to issue parking infringements the system is paying for itself, which ultimately brings us back the the point, since very few people actually like these, who do we vote for to get rid of them in our democracy?

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[Myopic]

Well usually there would be third parties to the transaction. Yeah, great, the coal plant and the pond owner both want to dump toxic sludge into the pond. Well the people who live downstream don't want that.

I can't think of a law which *nobody* supports, which is your scenario. There's a lot of criticism of the Obamacare "individual mandate" (which isn't a mandate at all, but I digress): but while one individual may not want to buy insurance, the rest of society wants him to, because they are the ones who have to care for him when he has an accident.

Another would be, say, drug use. Yeah, great, both the dealer and the junkie want to make the transaction, but that's not the whole story. The rest of society claims to have a stake in the transaction because they are the ones who have to deal with the externalities of the transaction.

It's okay, we can disagree with this. I accept that the government necessarily and tautologically "tells its subjects what is best". When I disagree and think I know better, then I try to convince others, and in a functional constitutional democracy, eventually we should get our way. And when I don't get my way, I don't blame it on ideological failures in the law.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[h4rm0ny]

You're kidding, right? In the UK it's not the government that tells doctors how to practice, it's other doctors. It's also doctors and scientists who figure out what drugs are legal and illegal, and it's local authorities who determine how to spend their money. You seem to think it's guys in suits making all this stuff up, when clearly it's delegated to experts in the various affected sectors.

Get a fucking grip.

I was part of the management of a surgery in the UK for three years, I think I know a little bit about how the goverment prescribes what GPs can and cannot do. If you think the Department of Health doesn't tell hospitals and general practices in the UK how to operate, then I don't know what you think they do instead.

Re:What does communist have to do with it?

[Geminii]

Of course, if you have a better idea than a big US company, in China you're encouraged to build a huge factory and make enormous profits. In the US you're sued. :)

Communist nations?

[h4rm0ny]

Sounds like most Western nations, too, if you ask me.

Re:Communist nations?

[sakdoctor]

Well actually that was footage from the movie Independence Day, but the real laser would be a lot like that. Yeah. scary.

"Commies skilled an(sic) embarrassing themselves"?

[sznupi]

First, this seems to be the work of a TV broadcaster, not a nation (certainly not a communist one...) ... does anyone here really think "non-commie" media are any better?

Secondly, apparently it was used as a demonstration of effects of their new missile - using a footage of exploding F-5 is even somewhat fitting, might even be not simply a case of lazy TV crew... (even if not lazy, capturing real hits would be extremely hard for little effect, they aren't particularly "cinema impressive")

And generally, regarding embarrassments - yeah, because in non-commie lands works of visual fiction would never be used in real military contexts, that's unheard of, would be ... too, too embarrassing.

But yes, you all read that right, their main TV broadcaster is called CCTV / sarcasm meter implodes :>>

PS. BTW, regarding such movies - Les Chevaliers du ciel (aka Sky Fighters), while obviously also with completely redundant plot, is much more enjoyable all-flash-no-substance kind of deal - it has much more spectacular cinematography, nvm lots more minutes of actual flying. Unlike Top Gun (where most flight sequences filming was done from the ground) - in Les Chevaliers du ciel the majority of filming was done from the air, largely via cameras hidden in modified fuel tanks of fighters, to great effect.

Plus it's much less of "a story about a man's struggle with his own homosexuality" (via Quentin Tarantino)

Re:"Commies skilled an(sic) embarrassing themselve

[Anonymous Coward]

You miss the wonderful thing about communist dictatorships, especially the PRC, the TV broadcasters are run by the state. So they do represent the state. That gives us the freedom to criticize the government for their actions.

so where's the RIAA now?

[v1]

this ought to be good... I want to see the suits show up at a door, knock, and open it to see a tank barrel in their face. (sort of like in the Simpsons episode)

oh wait I forgot, the RIAA doesn't pick on anyone that can defend themselves.

Re:so where's the RIAA now?

[Anonymous Coward]

's/RIAA/MPAA/g'

Re:so where's the RIAA now?

[Anonymous Coward]

The RIAA is not concerned with movie copyright infringements (or at least shouldn't be). You are probably thinking of the MPAA.

Re:"Commies skilled an(sic) embarrassing themselve

[egamma]

First, this seems to be the work of a TV broadcaster, not a nation (certainly not a communist one...) ... does anyone here really think "non-commie" media are any better?

The difference is that in China, that TV broadcaster IS the government, or at least highly controlled by them. The American media are stupid all by themselves.

In Communist China...

[kerskine]

...Maverick Gooses You

Re:In Communist China...

[LifesABeach]

The one major fact I find myself fascinated with is that it was various Chinese locals that spotted the pirated footage first. "TOP GUN" as a Chinese cult film? Amazing. Chinese locals taking the moral high ground with their Big Business, and Government? China? What's going on over there?!

Re:Embaras? You dont get it..

[MightyMartian]

I beg to differ. China has made all sorts of bellowing noises against things they felt would embarrass them on the international stage. I'm thinking here of the film about the Uighur leader that China demanded an Australian film festival not show, and the film festival's website was suddenly the victim of cyberattacks pretty obviously coming from China.

China is extremely sensitive of its reputation.

WSJ report and comparison video

[Novus]

The Wall Street Journal has a report including a comparison video.

Re:"Commies skilled an(sic) embarrassing themselve

[sznupi]

Yeah, don't let the reality of their quite frequent "mistakes" in reporting and retractions get in your way. Of course the myth of homogeneous brainwashed flock under one leadership must be true...

Damn!

[PPH]

I was looking forward to a video of a Chinese pilot lip-syncing You've Lost That Loving Feeling.

Re:Damn!

[halivar]

"You've rost... dat ruvvving feering... whoah dat ruvving feering...."

Re:Damn!

[Hoi Polloi]

Just be happy they didn't use the volleyball scene from Top Gun.

Re:Damn!

[Tablizer]

"You've rost... dat ruvvving feering... whoah dat ruvving feering...."

-1 Twoll
   

Re:Damn!

[hduff]

If the Chinese government is spun around and around, does it become disoriented?

Re:Damn!

[martyros]

Funny, but Chinese have an "L" sound. You're thinking other asian languages, like Japanese / Thai. [/nitpick]

Re:Damn!

[Anonymous Coward]

agreed. this joke gets very very very old and quite stale. the chinese language does indeed have a phonetic sound for L and for R (laoren for example). these 2 sounds are very prominent in all dialects spoken in china.

Re:Damn!

[jdgeorge]

Mmmm.... English has a "short e" sound and a "short i" sound, but that doesn't mean you can tell if someone with a Texas accent dropped her pin or his pen.

Having an "L" sound is not the same as pronouncing an "L" sound. This effect does, in fact, occur for some Chinese, as do various other peculiarities of pronunciation that are effects not of the language or dialect, but of accent/regional pronunciation.

Many people do not speak their languages the way they are explained in a textbook. This is as true in China as it is in the English-speaking countries and Australia. ;-)

Re:Damn!

[PPH]

Also, if they were lip-syncing it, it would come out sounding exactly like the Righteous Brothers (who I assume can pronounce English R and L sounds correctly).

Re:Damn!

[karlwilson]

Trorr Rearn to sperr in Chinese..

Re:Damn!

[Tablizer]

It's regionism, not racism. Californians make fun of southern US accents, and southerners in turn make fun of stoned hippie surfer accents. What comes around goes around.

Re:Damn!

[phantomfive]

And yet they still manage to mix up l and r. Really, listen to a native chinese speaker fresh from China, and they will from time to time get confused with those sounds. The 'r' sound in Chinese is significantly different than the 'r' sound in English.

Re:"Commies skilled an(sic) embarrassing themselve

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. Big difference. Here the media owns the state and not the other way around.

Re:"Commies skilled an(sic) embarrassing themselve

[h4rm0ny]

The American media are stupid all by themselves.

If you assume that the people in control of the US media got where they are by being stupid, you're very wrong. And if you think there aren't endless close ties between the mainstream media and the government, you're even more wrong.

Re:"Commies skilled an(sic) embarrassing themselve

[Bill_the_Engineer]

You post appears to be propaganda masquerading as sarcasm. So just in case, I'd like to make the following points:

CCTV stands for China Central Television which is a state run television network. It is communist.

CCTV is the main outlet of propaganda for the government. Western broadcasters may at times use film scenes or in-house produced animations to illustrate a story, but they disclose it as a animation or for illustration purposes only. They are a third-party entity reporting an event, not part of the government trying to fabricate the event.

Your example of Powell's UN presentation doesn't seem applicable, since Powell wasn't the media and that the slide was produced by analysts and not a scene from a movie.

Two words

[Darth_brooks]

Volleyball Scene.

Riceman?

[locutus53]

Riceman?

Re:Riceman?

[locutus53]

ROR!

Re:"Commies skilled an(sic) embarrassing themselve

[sznupi]

So now the government = a nation, even better... (is it really so hard to miss that Chinese people uncovered this? And that government certainly doesn't like this kind of mess caused by their media, which are generally quite used to issuing retractions & corrections of "mistakes" by now? (one could expect they shouldn't be possible with all this oversight...))

Re:"Commies skilled an(sic) embarrassing themselve

[advid.net]

PS. BTW, regarding such movies - Les Chevaliers du ciel (aka Sky Fighters), while obviously also with completely redundant plot, is much more enjoyable all-flash-no-substance kind of deal - it has much more spectacular cinematography, nvm lots more minutes of actual flying. Unlike Top Gun (where most flight sequences filming was done from the ground) - in Les Chevaliers du ciel the majority of filming was done from the air, largely via cameras hidden in modified fuel tanks of fighters, to great effect.

Anyone who like technology, fighters, sonic boom at ground level, real footage from fighters, post-combustion by night, ... in widescreen should see this awesome movie.

Re:"Commies skilled an(sic) embarrassing themselve

[Anonymous Coward]

BTW, regarding such movies - Les Chevaliers du ciel (aka Sky Fighters), while obviously also with completely redundant plot, is much more enjoyable all-flash-no-substance kind of deal - it has much more spectacular cinematography, nvm lots more minutes of actual flying.

A movie made 20 years after Top Gun has better effects? Shocking!

Unfortunately, I'm no longer 10 years old, so I doubt I'll enjoy it as much.

Re:For everybody posting anti-western crap

[amiga3D]

Give 'em a break. All the over educated elite are still upset that the USSR lost the cold war. They're rooting for china to succeed and win out over those evil capitalists.

You haven't experienced

[confu2000]

Top Gun unless you've watched it in the original Klingon.

Re:You haven't experienced

[blackbear]

I would have written:
You haven't fully experienced Top Gun unless you've watched it in the original Chinese.

With the above you allude to the original joke without hitting us over the head with it. Thus giving all of us who "get it" a chance to look down our collective noses at those of less depth in Sci-Fi pop culture.

Is it me?

[flex941]

Skilled an embarrassing indeed.

This was a deliberate message from China.

[SETIGuy]

They just wanted us to know they've lost that lovin' feeling.

The habbit of pirating is hard to kick

[Tablizer]

You do it enough, it becomes second nature.

Re:The habbit of pirating is hard to kick

[Azghoul]

Isn't a habbit that funny looking hat thing that hobbit nuns wear?

It's macabre but commendable

[bugs2squash]

That tolerances on fighter jets and A2A missiles have gotten so tight that every explosion is so repeatable and deterministic. Kudos to the engineers, mechanics and of course the pilots I say.

Ironically...

[dvoecks]

The Navy only allowed them to fire on real missile during the making of "Top Gun", and the rest were done in miniature. So, the odds are pretty solid that the footage they posted was "fake" anyhow.

Maybe the Chinese should work on their own special effects dept.

Re:"Commies skilled an(sic) embarrassing themselve

[sznupi]

Actual cinematography (in this case the results of most basic choices about camera placement) = effects? Since when?

New meme!

[Quiet_Desperation]

In Communist China, state owns media!

Chinese Innovation

[ddd0004]

That's brilliant. All government should punch up their official communications with movie and tv show clips. The state of the union address would be much more exciting dubbed over a couple old episodes of the A-Team

Re:Chinese Innovation

[Minwee]

I love it when the economy comes together.

Re:Chinese Innovation

[kenrblan]

I pity the fool who doesn't win the future!

Re:"Commies skilled an(sic) embarrassing themselve

[Bill_the_Engineer]

(and yeah, what Powell did was much worse than what here was done by some random TV crew ... not to mention how the US media licked from his hand)

Okay, I'll bite. How so?

Everyone seems to have forgotten that the days leading up to the Iraq war were filled with Saddam Hussein making grandiose claims of being close to producing nuclear weapons. They also seem to have forgotten that Hussein used chemical weapons against the Kurds (google "yellow rain iraq'). Unfortunately the US intelligence community was so incapable of gathering any credible evidence to the contrary that we had little choice but to act accordingly. You can also come up with your favorite conspiracy theory about this period. Unfortunately for Hussein, his erratic behavior and his continued and increasingly aggressive stunts against the UN inspectors made the old adage "the devil you know is better than the devil you don't" less applicable. This is why a lot of politicians that are now against the war voted for it originally.

People who are opposed to the war like to revise the history leading up to the event to further vilify the Bush administration. I didn't like the idea of the iraq invasion, but let's face it a lot of the blame falls on Saddam Hussein.

I would like to point out that unlike CCTV, the American news do follow up on their news stories. The American media did questioned the Bush administration about lapses in intelligence within Iraq leading up to the war. The fact that "yellow cake uranium" was never found. No weapons of mass destruction was found (or made public). I could also mention the Valerie Plame scandal...

Again, Just from the fact that the American media eventually questioned the validity of Powell's UN presentation makes your point moot. You'd never see CCTV questioning the actions of the Chinese government.

You reminded me about an old joke that Yakov Smirnoff told, it went something like this "The Soviet Union and US enjoy the same freedom of speech. In Washington D.C. you are allowed to assemble a protest against your American government. In the Soviet Union we are allowed to assemble in Moscow to protest against your American government."

Re:Communist china?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sorry, I'm afraid I can't hear you over the sound of all the facts.

People's Republic of China
    Single party-led republic
    President: Hu Jintao
        Political party: Communist Party of China
    Premier: Wen Jiabao
        Political party: Communist Party of China
    NPCSC Chairman: Wu Bangguo
        Political party: Communist Party of China
    CPPCC Chairman: Jia Qinglin
        Political party: Communist Party of China
National People's Congress
    Communist Party of China (2,099)
    United Front Democratic Parties & Others (888)
        (United Front: a nominally popular front led by the Communist Party of China)

For some reason commies love to call themselves "democratic" and claim they're the "people's" party/government/whatever. For some reason it's never very hard to see through. For some reason, you're an idiot.

Re:"Commies skilled an(sic) embarrassing themselve

[vlm]

PS. BTW, regarding such movies - Les Chevaliers du ciel (aka Sky Fighters), while obviously also with completely redundant plot, is much more enjoyable all-flash-no-substance kind of deal - it has much more spectacular cinematography, nvm lots more minutes of actual flying. Unlike Top Gun (where most flight sequences filming was done from the ground) - in Les Chevaliers du ciel the majority of filming was done from the air, largely via cameras hidden in modified fuel tanks of fighters, to great effect.

Anyone who like technology, fighters, sonic boom at ground level, real footage from fighters, post-combustion by night, ... in widescreen should see this awesome movie.

The problem is Top Gun was a chick flick where the leading man happened to be a pilot. I think your "sky fighters" sounds more like an action flick.

Chick flick - boy meets girl, boy looses his emotional crutch (his RIO copilot died) and questions if he's right or wrong. In the end, boy and girl live happily ever after. They fly around and stuff but its just to give him something manly to do between romantic moments.

I'm guessing the action flick is just endless chase scenes and explosions like any other action flick.

Re:In Capitalist USA...

[dkleinsc]

Maverick Gooses You during a 2008 presidential bid.

(Maybe that's why McCain chose her as his running mate)

Re:"Commies skilled an(sic) embarrassing themselve

[sznupi]

Everyone seems to have forgotten that the days leading up to the Iraq war were filled with Saddam Hussein making grandiose claims of being close to producing nuclear weapons.

This fiction, how you manage to "remember" it, ironically only shows how nicely the propaganda machine at your place works. Sometimes / for certain people, at least.

Follow-ups many months or sometimes years later don't change how the views of enough people become shaped in a desired way by the "big scary issue". Look how significant part of the public (or even worse - of military forces in Iraq) still thinks that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11.

You remind me of jokes in People's Republic of Poland, about the Party and the Soviet Union; about legendary cabaret acts (Kabaret TEY, for example) openly driving them, also on the state TV (or even movies like "Man of Iron" managing to go through TV funding, at times)... oh, wait, you tell me they shouldn't exist?

If only..

[Anonymous Meoward]

If they had only taken Kenny Loggins too, nobody would have complained.

Re:"Commies skilled an(sic) embarrassing themselve

[Duradin]

Since he's 11 he probably never knew a time when shots were physically composed and not just manipulated on a computer.

tower flyby!

[k6mfw]

How about a tower flyby when a top general of the Chinese Air Force visiting the control tower and while sipping really hot tea, and wham! He cusses all kinds of expletives, but with it in Mandarin FCC cannot understand and out it goes on USA networks...

Who is the target audience?

[udoschuermann]

It only matters whether their own people believe the video.

If some do not, what are the chances that news of their blunder spreads? And if this really blows up in their face, what are the chances that the government won't push the blame onto someone else?

The bottom line is that this kind of stuff can be effective propaganda: How would the Chinese people feel about going to war if this video were presented as proof of a foreign invader or spy being shot down by valiant Chinese defenders? Manufacture a few more like that, and before long the people will feel sufficiently threatened to accept fewer rights and more police control, and approve of the invasion of evil nations.

Hands up, who can tell us where else in the world this kind of thing has worked like a charm? Hint, it wasn't a communist nation. Extra credit for multiple examples in different time periods. :)

"Found" Footage

[hyades1]

Let's hope for all our sakes that when China visually documents research into new surgical techniques, they haven't got hold of "Human Centipede".

Learn from Baudelaire...

[davevr]

"la plus belle des ruses du diable est de vous persuader qu'il n'existe pas!"

Or, as Keyser Söze would put it: "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn't exist."

It is classic misdirection- act vaugely bumbling and inept in insignificant matters to distract people from putting serious scrutiny on you.

Re:Learn from Baudelaire...

[CraftyJack]

It is classic misdirection- act vaugely bumbling and inept in insignificant matters to distract people from putting serious scrutiny on you.

The Inspector Gadget Strategy?

If you don't believe in Intellectual Property....

[Tangential]

I doubt that they are embarassed. The Chinese have chosen to have a limited grasp of IP and If you don't believe in Intellectual Property rights then why would you be embarrassed by the repurposing a film for other uses without permission?

Re:Embaras? You dont get it..

[SnarfQuest]

I beg to differ. China has made all sorts of bellowing noises against things they felt would embarrass them on the international stage.

So why do they, and all the other media outlets, keep pulling clips out of this show.

If I were the Chinese, I'd also be embarrased to be seen sliding across the floor in my underwear, while playing air guitar.

Re:If you don't believe in Intellectual Property..

[TheCarp]

Well... its about more than IP. The major, military rival of the chineese is the US (whether any war scenarios are actually realistic is besides the point. Military might is generally mostly symbolic anyway).

So they were caught, using footage of a movie that was intended to... be a story of a number of US pilots, and what bad asses they are.

Having been caught using movie footage, much less of a movie intended to make their rivals look like badassess, could be pretty embarrassing, "IP Rights" aside.

hehe

[goose-incarnated]

I resemble that comment

Re:For everybody posting anti-western crap

[jdgeorge]

What's the big deal? Everyone I know prefers Country over Western.

You are also very skilled at embarrassing your

[kriston]

You are also very skilled at embarrassing yourself.

Re:I doubt it

[Belial6]

I have to disagree. It is not uncommon to see people resort to spelling complaints after a fairly lengthy debate. I think we should have a nasty, long, drawn out argument about the motivation of spelling trolls, an if it looks like you are proving your point, I will just complain about your spelling. ;)

Re:"Commies skilled an(sic) embarrassing themselve

[StikyPad]

True for now, but I have a feeling FOX News will be back in power eventually.

Re:I doubt it

[Moraelin]

Well, maybe, for some and in some debates, it really is a way to throw some insult before doing the equivalent of slamming the door behind them. Still doesn't exactly say "the great thinker", but ok.

I'm hard pressed to see that in cases where some spelling troll swoops in on someone's first and (at the time) only message in a thread, and with it being not very deep at all in a particular discussion. A talk where the 4th message in the chain is already the spelling-troll post is hardly the kind of discussion that was long or drawn or exhausted the more relevant arguments already.

Why no Iron Eagle?

[jzarling]

That movie deserves more love.

Sounds More Like Fascism to Me

[srobert]

It looks to me like the PROC has converted the economy directly from communism to fascism while retaining the "Communist" brand name. That rumble you hear is Mao rolling in his grave at 100,000 rpm.

Re:"Commies skilled an(sic) embarrassing themselve

[Opportunist]

As a friend of mine remarked, the difference between media and government in dictatorships and democracies isn't that big. Governments lie and the media lie. That's the same, no matter whether dictatorship or democracy.

The hallmark of a democracy is just that they tell different lies. So watch out when they start telling the same lies.

Re:Communist china?

[mijelh]

From the Constitution of the PRC:

Article 1
The People's Republic of China is a socialist state of the dictatorship of the proletariat led by the working class and based on the alliance of workers and peasants. Article 2
The Communist Party of China is the core of the leadership of the whole Chinese people [...]

But maybe you know better than their constitution

Re:I doubt it

[Belial6]

Could you please put a spelling error in there so that I can complain about it, as it seems you do have a point in this case, and since I don't want to admit it, I must find some typo, spelling, or grammar error to complain about.

Oh! OK is supposed to be capitalized! That's it!

Re:"Commies skilled an(sic) embarrassing themselve

[Max Littlemore]

I remember the days leading up to the Gulf War. I remember Hans Blix saying that Iraq had next to no chance of getting a weapon any time soon. I remember analysts who actually understood the region saying that invading Iraq will do more to aid terrorism than prevent it. I remember international law experts and many countries around the world warning that there was no valid U.N. mandate for an invasion. I remember being absolutely disgusted that our Prime Minister could join in with what was so obviously an act of armed robbery by a bunch of the most evil arse holes on the planet fronted by a buffoon and against the will of the majority of citizens.

That whole episode really brought it home to me that capitalist democracies are fucked. Because in capitalist democracies people like me are outnumbered by people like you who don't pay any attention to the news beyond what the evil pricks in with the major party of choice are telling them and vote to put said evil pricks in power. And for the evil pricks, well they are capitalists through and through, so it makes perfect sense to go into a war with a country that really can't defend itself. Especially against a proud people who are likely to resist in a region where any power vaccuum will quickly be filled by thugs like al Qaeda. The government will buy military hardware from the companies the evil pricks have substantial interests in, award oil contracts, wheat deals, etc etc to companies the evil pricks have interests in. And hey, the longer the whole thing goes on, the more money they make.

And you don't remember people predicting this before the invasion started? Amnesia, or do you only watch Fux News? Perhaps the people warning of this were all lefties or pinkos or liberals or something.

Again, Just from the fact that the American media eventually questioned the validity of Powell's UN presentation makes your point moot.

Tell that to every family member of every fatality caused by the illegal invasion of Iraq. Make sure you include your own countrymen, you know the poor trash that weren't worth nothin' anyway? By the time the news media grew some balls and started doing it's job, it was too late. At least in China you know that the whole thing is government spin. In the "free world" so many people actually do consume their entire news intact through Rupert's goggles.

Link to images

[Feinu]

This blog post with 4 image comparisons provides more conclusive evidence than TFA, which is really just another image-less summary.

Les Chevaliers du ciel (aka Sky Fighters)

[advid.net]

The problem is Top Gun was a chick flick where the leading man happened to be a pilot. I think your "sky fighters" sounds more like an action flick.

Chick flick - boy meets girl, boy looses his emotional crutch (his RIO copilot died) and questions if he's right or wrong. In the end, boy and girl live happily ever after. They fly around and stuff but it's just to give him something manly to do between romantic moments.

I'm guessing the action flick is just endless chase scenes and explosions like any other action flick.

Well... you guessed it wrong, Les Chevaliers du ciel (aka Sky Fighters) also has romance, espionage, love scenes, and beautiful landscape.

Talking about landscapes: a woman discovers how wonderful they are, she is sitting behind the pilot - just before he shows her how a real chase looks like (soft chase however, otherwise she would have fainted).

There aren't many explosions, only three I think.

The main point is that you can see in this movie real flight scenes you never saw before, because they invented some new devices. On board cameras with special stabilization, well there are not that many details about it but it was quite a challenge and army suppliers helped a lot here.

So Sky Fighters isn't "like any other action flick" (maybe my previous post was misleading) This movie really stands out and set a new reference.

*sigh*

[Celestialwolf]

That's all China is good at: stealing things from others and exploiting them. There's all this talk about how China is increasing their power by leaps and bounds, but none of it would have been possible without their theft. Even their government offices use pirated software for crying out loud! (they could at least use open-source or something). Point is, they let the US pay for all the R&D and etc, and then just steal it. This applies to the military and business especially.

Re:Communist china?

[guyminuslife]

You know, you'd think that if you scoffed over them calling themselves "democratic," you might a little bit of skepticism toward their use of the "communist" label. Whatever China is---and I'm not saying I like them---but whatever they are, they haven't been communist for a while now.