Slashdot Mirror
Sony Wants To Put Your Game Saves In the Cloud
itwbennett writes "Sony may be planning to have three platforms (Android devices, NGP, PS3) running PlayStation Suite content and needing access to the same saved data stored in the cloud, says blogger Peter Smith. At last week's PlayStation Meeting, game developer Hideo Kojima said his 'dream' was to offer the same game on the PS3 and the new PlayStation Portable with saves in the cloud. If Kotaku has it right, that dream may be coming in firmware version 3.6. Also, in an interview with Engadget, Sony's Jack Tretton first said that PlayStation Suite games would work on the PS3. He then retracted that comment, but it's sounding a lot like Sony just isn't ready to talk officially about plans to bring Suite content to the PS3, says Smith."
Maybe it's because they're releasing the PSP2. They'll probably let people take their game saves with them now.
But, my security! But, my local backup! But, my privacy!
Storing game saves in on the network is a great idea. As long as they are also saved offline and are available for manual backups too. Network storage is not a substitute for offline backups.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
I don't know how many games I've played 1.75 times because I reformatted and couldn't find/forgot about the dang savegame files.
Saves aren't automatically forced to the cloud if you're someone who will be without internet access for a time. Also, they hopefully won't use this to deter piracy by holding people's save games hostage.
There is no -1 Disagree.
Imagine your PS3 hard drive dies. Your saves are online, or your PS3 is in for repairs. You can still use a buddies PS3 and login to an account and play from your last save. Even upgrading to a new console (of the sony variety) and still having your saves for backwards compatible games. That sort of service gives incentive to buy future products.
Of course there are problems. What if you don't connect your console to the internet? What if the servers hosting your saves go down? Would the servers act as a backup for your saves on your hard drive? (I think that would be a good idea)
I like it sirs.
que privacy and/or anti-"cloud" /. comments NOW!
Eat sleep die
Solid state memory, at least as much as should be necessary for saves, is dirt cheap. This is nothing less than a power grab intending to to satisfy all of the control freaks that have been behind Sony designs for decades.
I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
Although there's plenty that can go wrong, 'cloud' storage is a cool concept for my save data. It's not fun having to scrounge up a compatible device to backup my PS3's saves when I've upgraded the drive, and I'd hate to have to restart a game on my portable just because I lost my save on a Tiny-Micro-Whatever SD card no bigger than my pinky-nail.
That said, it raises the stakes on what happens if I decide to jailbreak my devices. Is there always going to be a hard copy, or do I get a nastygram message at startup saying "Your account (and all of those saves) have been locked out due to unlicensed use of your hardware"? Let's not forget that many manufacturers (Sony and Nintendo included) are moving towards digital delivery systems.
Welcome to 2 years ago on Steam.
No.
cap: atrocity
How fitting.
I, for one, do not look forward to a future where games will be developed to run on both the PS3 and the PSP. I didn't buy a PS3 and connect it to my 1080p TV to play games that are designed to look good on a 5" screen.
That could be really good! So long as I wasn't required to be connected to the internet in order to play my games. If there was some kind of consolecloud replication and games could function in a completely offline state it would be pretty great. It sucks balls when Blizzard is offline and I can't get my StarCraft 2 injection.
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
Privacy concerns aside, it seems like a good thing if the save files are *mirrored* online. I could see the benefit of wanting to load up my game elsewhere or having them saved in the cloud when my PS3 takes a dive into the crapper (which happened to me recently). However, I would be extraordinarily pissed if I couldn't play a certain game if my internet connection flaked out or if the servers are down or something like that.
Uh, what about those that don't HAVE good network access... I've recently been allowed a glimpse into the pain that many have with these idiot notions that you can simply rely on the "cloud" to get updates, demos, etc. It only sort-of works when you've got access to 3-5 Mbits/sec without caps on the bandwidth (3G networking doesn't work overly well for either unless you've got WiMax/LTE and coverage in your area...and even then, the caps cause their own sets of issues.. It only REALLY works if you've got what I've got back at home or higher, which would be 20 Mbits/sec.
Until the ISPs are on the same damn page as the companies wanting "The Cloud" it's a non-play. And that doesn't get into the OTHER problems with "The Cloud"- which would be security and reliability of the supplier in question.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
When I buy a game I want to be able to play it as long as I have the ability to do so (as long as my hardware/emulator still works). If any corporation decides it's no longer profitable to keep up the "cloud storage" for my particular game, am I then no longer able to play?
If Sony chooses what you do with your games, are they really yours?
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. -- Isaac Asimov
Both me and a friend of mine have PS3s, and we take turns visiting each other's homes to play games. So we're in the target audience for this feature.
But we've been getting by just fine by using USB keys.
So ... why would I want to subscribe to (and presumably pay money for) a feature that I already have? Sure, I have to save onto a USB key manually, but it's just an extra minute after our gaming session.
Not to mention how many times the service is not available. Just this weekend the Battlefield BC2 servers were offline or just plain not available, all I need now is that the single player game not be available. That would sure help my bank account.
BTW can we stop calling the Internet the cloud.
Not!
How the hell will I be able to continue my game when somewhere without cloud access (like in a subway)?
I do hope that this system will implement both local and cloud copies of the save games which are then synched or else the system is utter garbage.
On top of that, why am I being forced to subscribe to a data plan that I DO NOT WANT! Occasional Wifi access is fine for my needs, I don't have a pressing need to tweet my life or check my emails every god damned minute so I don't want to pay for data access for my phone or other devices.
~Syberz
More likely they want to move content to the cloud to enforce their DRM. Get ready for consoles to require an internet connection, because it's not that far off.
and have to deal with them limiting your bandwidth the 25Gb per month.
Soon enough, content providers are going to be requiring more bandwidth than can be supplied, I am thinking XBOX 360 with 10 million people sending saved data to the Microsoft servers everyday, individually not much, but coupled with other devices/platforms it will be something. Do you think it will be content/game providers that will actually force the telcos to upgrade their infrastructure because they cant sell enough due to limited bandwidth?
We on the PC already have that with Steamcloud. It make some sense, since not only the savegames follow you, but the whole games!.
You get home, and you can ask for download to Steam some games on the computer of your dad, and you will get the games and the savegames. And wen you get home, the savegames will follow you. Or maybe you have a netbook to, so you can start playing a game on the work (*cough*), continue on a laptop, and finish on your home. You can. But the feature is here: who cares about the hardware?, the data is the important thing, play where you have a computer, not where you have the files.
I can't see having any added feature for console users, well.. if the users only have 1 console, if have more than one Sony console, and maybe Steam, then maybe can get some nice juice from it.
-Woof woof woof!
So many companies are starting to push more and more things online, and are losing site of offline capabilities. The fact is that network connection is never guaranteed to be stable, and offline is a necessity. So if Sony uses this much like how steam works right now where it's just an option for convenience, then yes this will be a good idea. However, I fear Sony will make it a necessity, especially since recently Sony has proven to everyone that they're huge control freaks. They won't be happy until you have to ask them to do anything and everything on your own console. No thanks Sony, this is why I give Apple products the finger.
What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
Remember: a corporation's job is to legally make money by offering value that customers are willing to pay for.
Keeling that in mind, where would the revenue stream be? Unless you can figure out a way to change customers
to prefer your systems over others, that means it's a pay-for service, that it is unlikely many people will pay for.
About the only way I can imagine the numbers working out is if you eliminated the hard disk in new units, making
for a substantial cost savings in hardware. The downside, of course, would be that you couldn't save your game
unless you were on line. And I don't think that's something many customers are willing to do quite yet, at least
outside Japan and Korea.
I'm really coming to the conclusion that this is all hype. "Cloud computing" is the big marketing hype word these
days, not quite as bad as "dot com" was in the 90s, but still, a warning sign of fluff. And this is clearly backed up
by the requirements. A save game doesn't need the computational resources of a "cloud". It's just simple data
storage. So whoever is using this word is either clueless, or being intentionally misleading to sell it to people he
thinks are clueless. Either way, it's bad.
I've used this feature on Steam several times. Start a long game of Civ 5 (huge maps, epic speed) and play till the sun comes up. Save to the Steam Cloud. Get stuck at work patching servers or something, fire up Civ on the laptop and pick up where I left off. But, it's my choice to save to the cloud or save locally, as it should be.
This turned out fantastically for Steam. I can't tell you have wonderful it is to be able to play a game like Puzzle Quest on my desktop and then continue my game right from where I left off on my laptop without having to hunt down the save game file and transport it myself.
As long as game saves are also stored locally in the event of a network outage the consumer can only benefit form this.
Sony bashers with conspiracy theories are the first to arrival to the thread.
It's DRM !!!1!!
They will force you to store in the cloud!!!1!!1one!!
etc.
Could we save our outrage after they we get clear confirmation as to what exactly Sony plans to do?
Personally I really doubt Sony will force you to store your save games in the cloud. LOL
It would seem that if all saves are forced to the cloud, it would be pretty dam easy to control hackers and home brew. Sure..hack it all ya want..but when you want to save..umm not so much.
In the future every game will be MMO - even the single player ones.
Seriously, I've ALWAYS wondered this. I can play say Grand Theft Whatever or Assassin's This or Star Wars That or Red Dead Data Packets... and the stupid thing is constantly churning autosaves or save sessions or save points. A staple of gaming.
But if I go fire up FIFA 11 or Madden or MLB 2k10, I *HAVE* to play a given game through to the conclusion or leave it paused until I'm done. Why?
Examples: I love a nice leisurely 60-90 minute Madden session, really thinking about the plays, or a leisurely baseball game sometimes, really working the counts, etc. -- but rarely have 60-90 minutes to just burn through for either. That's why I love the FIFA game--10-20 minutes, in and out, done. I can't remember sports games EVER letting us do this--I finish a game, my seasons/campaigns/whatever autosave out the wazoo, but the in-game process itself? Weird. Am I the only person that cares for such a feature?
Dude, where's my packet?
Valve does this with their Steam client for games like Half-life that support play on Mac and PC. It's quite useful. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_(software)#Steam_Cloud Ignoring the 'Cloud' buzzword, this and Firefox-Sync are very useful, especially for dual booting win/linux or mac/win machines.
Do you mostly play FPS or other games where the entire game is done in 20 hrs or so? Try thinking of the 'off chance of having to re-play part of your game' when you are 100+ hrs into some RPG and all the saves disappear, even if the game is really fun to play most people want to try finishing it before another replay. However I could see this as being a great way to add hardcore mode in such games, no more 'cheating' by reloading save files - you die, and everything gets deleted at the cloud :-)
So now not only will Sony control my savegames, I will require a constant network connection to them just to access it? This takes the online DRM bullshit to a whole new level of evil.
And to top it off, I live in Canada where we were stupid enough to allow Bell and Rogers to force bandwidth caps and per-byte metering on the entire country regardless of ISP. It is going to cost BIG BUCKS as it is just to use the internet (thanks to the insanely low bandwith caps shoved down our throats)...i dont' even want to think about what the "next generation" of cloud gaming is going to cost me.
They do not want to save it in the cloud. They want to own the data and this is the best spin Marketing could come up with.
The next step will be that you won't be able to get to it if you did whatever it was they do not like and the step after that will be paying to access "your" data, while they are able to sell the info on to third parties.
And still people think that they actually have a choice, just like when the Corleone family offers protection, you have an option to say no.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
I'm all for in-the-cloud saves as an OPTION. My gripe is that how long between offering this as a free service, when cloud-saves are the de-facto standard, and when you have to start paying money to be able to load your save games? Sony, like any good business, is out to put money in their pockets. This seems like an easy way to get more money out of power gamers without irritating the casual crowd enough to affect their bottom line.
Now, give me the ability to push my saves to any server I want and just charge for the awesomeness of Sony's Save Servers, that I'm all for. But Sony has never been a company into standards or openness (see MemoryStick vs SD cards; MafiAA).
It has always seemed to me that video games are one domain in which the logic of open source and privacy advocates doesn't apply. A video game has no need for privacy since personal details are rarely collected and can be anonymized if desired. Also, there is no legitimate purpose to them outside of entertainment, so they can't really be seen as deserving to be implemented in a free manner like an operating system or word processing software can. So using the cloud to facilitate gaming is a Good Idea. You're already buying a legally locked console when you buy from Sony anyway, so why whine when Sony does something that is actually innovative?
The cloud saves are there to encourage folks to buy the same game on multiple platforms.
Or they want to hold your save games hostage in order to discourage jailbreaking, piracy, mods, etc..
Or they want to be able to insert advertisements into your save games.
Or they want to send targeted emails based on your save games. "We noticed that you haven't played (aka created any save games) for game "Foo!" in a while. Here's a discount code for some downloadable content for "Foo!".
the idea discussed is an obvious one, and sony and its products doesn't strike me as those that need a pr boost from slashdot.
...they don't abuse the power.
For instance, Nintendo happens to sign your save game files with a per-console key. This allows developers the option to lock their game's saves to the console, preventing you from moving them from one machine to the next. Certain homebrew applications were created that allowed you to actually back up your save file.
This hit me when I bought Ghost Squad. I unlocked a bunch of guns, and wanted to take the game to a friend's house to play on his Wii. I tried to copy my save file to the SD Card, and it told me no. That's some balls, telling me that I can't copy my own save file. WTF?
:(){
they shut down dozens of servers right on one morning on the face of japanese swg players, not even warning them beforehand, because they thought they should do it.
they started deleting characters, houses, all the accumulations of star wars galaxies characters, before they thought it was unprofitable to keep them, contrary to general practice in mmo world. shows how moronic they are by the way - the players who got their stuff deleted wont return to the game anymore now.
in any case, sony is the LAST entity on the planet that i would entrust my save games with. from the swg flop, rootkit disaster, to this point - im wondering why are the morons who are making up such policies and moves are STILL not fired.
Read radical news here
Moot point. How are you going to (without much more effort) jailbreak your console, when they take away the USB ports, because they have replaced USB ports/memory sticks with cloud saves?
Just this morning, I symlinked my Star Control II save dir to Dropbox, so I can play the same campaign at work and at home.
Syncing save games to the cloud is one of the best infrastructure-related gaming ideas of the last decade (Steam was the first, AFAIK), and I'm glad the idea is finally catching on. I'll make it happen manually, if I have to. :)
so heres how i feel bout this
i dont trust sony at alll. i fully expect this to b DRM, anti-piracy, pain-in-everyones-ass-but-pirates bullsh*t
that being said, on the off chance it isnt done badly, this could be rerally cool. like really really REALLY cool. having 1 game across multiple devices could be so awesome. imagine banging out some of that XP grind on ur psp on the way to work? or catching up on the backstory, or playing ur favorite mini-games. yeah this is totally an anti piracy move, but antipiracy also got us all this awesome dlc and online modes recently, which ill happily pay for. when i love a game, i LOVE it, and want it all the time, this could be so cool. like that fallout wristwatch thing u use? imagine if instead of pausing fallout (which is pure fighting gameplay mechanic fail IMHO), u used ur psp, ur psp could act as a 2nd screen, weapon selection tool, rearview mirror, map/gps, and when u were away, u could like follow up on story, interact w/ non graphics intensive aspects of the game and such. thatd b so awesome, and that off the top of my head.
that being said, i still dont trust sony. i think this will be a pain. and xbox pwnts ps3. yes, ps3 is much better hardware. waaaay better. thats why its so sad that xbox r4pes ps3. sooooo sad.
Ideally if they can solidly detect your hacking, they'd not just lock you out, they'd either sue you or (if they can find a criminal statute under which to charge you) summon the police.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
It seems you have made an error in article title, it should say: Sony Wants To Store Your Game Saves Server Side
F**k the cloud. Until there is constant high-speed internet access available across the globe, I reserve my right to retain my information locally, with the option to backup my saves to this so called "cloud." Be it saves, financial data, email, or documents whatever. Call it paranoia, but I'd rather be the one responsible for maintaining the integrity of my data.
Pretty much disabled that...
Sony ran a big campaign saying how the PS3 was a computer, and you could use it just as a computer. It has support for installing an Other OS.
Sony then removed the functionality from a new product, promising that they would not remove it from the original. Which was with in their right.
Sony then illegally removed the functionality. Which a class action lawsuit in the US was brought against them for false advertising.
US courts ruled that Sony does not have to abide by the law in the US, just like Microsoft, the RIAA, the MPAA and many other companies. Sony has proved through the courts already that it can falsely advertise and remove any functionality they want with no recourse. They can impose new restrictions and the courts will back them up. What happens if what you are doing one day is what they allow, and the next day it is not?
what do you think the chances that Nintendo would still have SNES or hell even NES savegame servers up and working properly now 20 or 25 years after the fact. Would my zelda and Final Fantasy 1 saves still work if I want to pop those games in? Would emulators (which is how I play those games now, even though I DO have a working NES console in a box in the garage) be invalidated as "games played on non-standard/hacked hardware"? Maybe Zelda and FF1 would work just fine because they are high profile, but what about less "famous" games?
Sierra took down the Starseige:Tribes master server after about 5 or years. That was a fairly popular game, and the server stored nothing more than the IP addresses of servers that had been verified as up in the past few minutes. You expect companies to keep servers up that have magnitudes more in the way of data storage and transfer needs?
Speaking of bandwidth concerns, some savegames can get pretty damn big. The last thing I need in my games is -more- waiting and loading time. "please wait while we download your savegame". Can you imagine the fun ever time a game's autosave goes off? "please wait, in the middle of this cooridoor, while we transfer your savegame to a server somewhere." And from somebody who was worked extensively with WAN-based applications that -SHOULD- easily work phenomenally fast, yet don't for a reason nobody can figure out, trust me that when that sony save server logjams and millions of people can't play their games because they can't load a save, you'll have MMO forum whining x 100.
also, who the hell is going to pay for all this?
On the other hand... if they take down those hypothetical NES/SNES savegame severs, that would provide some strong incentive to buy those "recently re-released for the 4th time, classic remastered collectors edition" versions for sale on the psn/live/wii stores... Ploy much?
no thanks sony, no thanks at all.
XBL does this to a degree with achievements. I'm not sure about actual game saves. But in games like Reach, if my console kicked the bucket tomorrow and I got a new one, it would remember that I had beaten the game on legendary, I have the rank of brigadier, and what other stuff I had unlocked. I even get access to that stuff if I recover my gamertag on a friend's Xbox.
I'm not sure if it would remember the exact spot I stopped during my last campaign save or not, but that's moot point to me.
"The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
SONY has earned my lack of business.
I don't say this lightly - heck, I've even worked in Japan at a SONY location (Shinagawa-ku, Tokyo) - I will NEVER purchase another product made from SONY again - unless it is required for my work and there aren't any other alternatives. NEVER.
They've worked really hard at this. First was the root-kit installed with music CDs. I was mad, but i didn't impact me. The last straw was suing a hacker (not cracker) over making use of hardware that he'd bought. Why don't they sue the USAF instead? They are clearly doing the same things http://www.tomsguide.com/us/usaf-ps3-playstation-cluster-cell,news-5177.html .
That includes movies.
I for one am thrilled that Sony is offering such current generation support for the Neo Geo Pocket. Thanks!
Well if it was on the DS you can at least suspend it instantly by closing the case. That is a really handy feature for something that is on the go.
Sony, wasn't that the company that topped of a collection of draconian DRM measures with a real rootkit? Not a company I'd trust on my android device.
Which one. There are lots of clouds and which type? Cumulus? Status? Cirrus? Cumulonimbus? I would assume the latter if they're putting everyone's there. I mean, it's the largest type.
Firstly, I'm a fan of playing rather out of date games. It'll really suck when I go to save my game and in fact I can't because that cloud resource is long gone. This sounds like yet another way Sony can obsolete games out of their catalogue to keep them off the resale market.
/dev/null..."</mobster voice> There's been some talk about keying video games because DRM schemes on consoles have proven vulnerable. I can only imagine a situation where Sony just makes every game with an embedded serial number. Your cloud account would have both the serial numbers of your consoles and the games you own. Give your game to your buddy to play? Nope... the games keyed to your account. Or possibly it could come up in the game and say "This game is owned by X, you can play but you can't save"
Secondly, I'm leary of Sony eventually turning this into a for pay service and then holding a virtual gun to my game saves. <mobster voice> "Pay up or your Rachet and Clank save is gonna have an accident with
Honestly, I expect this behaviour from downloaded games. I understand I can't copy it 1000 times. However, for physical media, there shouldn't be such limitations. (Yes, I know people copy physical games).
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
Why doesn't Sony just make a tablet that functions as a regular tablet, and can run ps3/ps3suite games with a bluetooth connection to a ps3 controller? After seeing the NGP, I'm sure they could find a way to make the necessary hardware fit into a tab.
Developers could create input methods through the controller or the touchscreen . . .
If I were stuck in an airport on a long layover, I'd love to be able to use the airport wifi to play some of my favorite FPS games online on like a 10" screen with the standard ps3 controller as my input . . . and if I wasn't in the mood to play, I could just use the thing to surf the web.
As for cloud saves . . . I have 2 ps3's for different parts of the house and I'd certainly make use of cloud save game features.
This is Sony. They will screw you. Just avoid them and save yourself the hassle.
The PS3 is already porting steam. When Portal ships, it will already use steam to save games in the cloud. And for people who don't know, it's fine. There's still local copies of your savegames as well.
http://www.next-gen.biz/news/valve%E2%80%99s-lombardi-ps3-steam-support
There's no clue in the article I could find as to whether Sony opted to use Steam to do this, or reinvent the wheel. Here's hoping it's the former.
-- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
If my saved games end up "in the cloud", I can 100% guarantee that at some point, they will be lost, or I will be denied access to them, and will not be allowed to back them up locally.
Wait what? Web based email (think gmail, hotmail, yahoo) seem pretty reliable and stable. The amount of "lost" content seems pretty low. The amount of deniles seem kind of low as well. We take for granted a lot of online services and never question their availability and stability, so why not use that high availability and stability for console games as well?
Saving stuff "to the cloud" seems to work well in on PC. Its as reliable and error free as your internet connection. MMOs base their business exactly on this feature where you can access accounts from any client. Other software tech like backups and doc archieves work every well. Save games lend themselves to this feature as well and it seems a lot of "complaints" sound similar to the whole "digital download" movement having somewhat irrational fears. Suggesting that Microsoft or Sony can't handle your precious online saves and outlining nightmare scenarios while one casually gives them credit card and personal data seems a bit weird.
Not only does sony (think they) own your hardware (PS3), they also want to own your save games info.
Where will it stop?
Be seeing you...
Yeah, like I'll ever trust anything from Sony. Rootkits, removing functionality from the PS3 that was a reason for buying, surely their next step is simply holding your data hostage?
How do you save your game if you're playing in Egypt?
I've read a lot of comments here citing that their console was stolen. What the fuck, guys? Do people just break into your house or do these things just disappear after a party? So you lock your doors? Are you surrounded by black people? Are you ever present when these break-ins occur? Can you not shoot them with a gun in your state? Around here, it's encouraged to shoot home intruders. It lowers the incident of break-ins substantially, because it's highly likely you will be shot if you break into a home and the owner most definitely knows his way around his/her house better than the burglar.
is 'forever payments'.. Which 'the cloud' can bring if you are dumb enough to rely on it in this manner.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
The CRTC recently ruled that ISP's are allowed to charge by the Gig. Making everything you d/l and view cost; this is going to make people think harder before adopting clouds as the main source.
Half of my steam games are already doing this, unsurprisingly it's called Steam Cloud. The game does it's standard local save and when you exit, steam gets a copy, possibly it also saves your preferences.
When you open up the game it checks your local saves and asks if you want to restore from the cloud if there is a problem.
this also means if you go around a friends place or a net centre you can start with your saves.
EASD : E = fwd, D = back, A = strafe left, S = strafe right.
Comes from playing Doom 1 and 2 where comma and period were strafe. Nearly 20 years ago. Get off my lawn, etc.
If you don't risk failure you don't risk success.