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Statistician Cracks Code For Lottery Tickets

Hugh Pickens writes writes "Lottery Post has an interesting story about Mohan Srivastava, an MIT educated statistician who became intrigued by a particular type of scratch-off lottery ticket called an extended-play game — sometimes referred to as a baited hook — that has a tic-tac-toe grid of visible numbers that looks like a miniature spreadsheet. Srivastava discovered a defect in the game: The visible numbers turned out to reveal essential information about the digits hidden under the latex coating. Nothing needed to be scratched off — the ticket could be cracked if you figured out the secret code. Srivastava's fundamental insight was that the apparent randomness of the scratch ticket was just a facade, a mathematical lie because the software that generates the tickets has to precisely control the number of winners while still appearing random. 'It wasn't that hard,' says Srivastava. 'I do the same kind of math all day long.'"

374 comments

  1. Small typo by benedictaddis · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Lottery Post has an interesting story about Mohan Srivastava, a *millionaire* MIT educated statistician" Fixed that for you

    1. Re:Small typo by spun · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Some people are not motivated primarily by greed. I'm guessing many people who go to MIT and become statisticians fall into that category, I mean, if they have that mindset and level of intelligence they could easily have gone to a business school and gone on to make millions. I'm not saying scientists, engineers and mathematicians are saints, they can be as petty as anyone, but if they wanted to be millionaires, they would have chosen different careers.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    2. Re:Small typo by c6gunner · · Score: 4, Funny

      How do you tell the difference between an MIT mathematician and a smart MIT mathematician? One talks to the media, the other is a millionaire.

    3. Re:Small typo by danlip · · Score: 3, Informative

      from TFA:

      "Once I worked out how much money I could make if this was my full-time job, I got a lot less excited," Srivastava says. "I'd have to travel from store to store and spend 45 seconds cracking each card. I estimated that I could expect to make about $600 a day. That's not bad. But to be honest, I make more as a consultant, and I find consulting to be a lot more interesting than scratch lottery tickets."

    4. Re:Small typo by yuriyg · · Score: 2

      This information looks more useful to the convenience store owners and clerks than to MIT educated statisticians. Even knowing the system, it's very hard to just stand there and pick out the tickets that you like, the store clerk would usually just rip off the first ticket from the roll. On the other hand, the clerks themselves have a lot of time to study these. I can image a pretty profitable scheme where the clerk would sell you certain tickets for extra 50% or so...

    5. Re:Small typo by dimeglio · · Score: 2

      The MIT entry exam consists of giving away all you possessions before being admitted. Hence, the statistically low number of affluent MIT educated statisticians. (Un)fortunally, I failed that exam.

      --
      Views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the author.
    6. Re:Small typo by artor3 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Statistics isn't hard? Let me guess, you base that on a couple of college courses? As an engineer, I've frequently run into statistical problems that neither I nor my coworkers have even the foggiest notion of how to approach. Things can get really ugly when you start dealing with the real world.

      You're certainly right about one thing though - most mathematicians do the math because they enjoy it. Those aforementioned problems that were beyond me? I typically recruit some mathematicians and physicists I know from college, and they solve them for free.

    7. Re:Small typo by lul_wat · · Score: 0

      How about I do the leg work, and he takes a cut? I'd be happy with 50/50. Seeing as I've been unemployed since July. Nice to know he makes more than $600 a day.

      --
      Divide a cake by zero. Is it still a cake?
    8. Re:Small typo by MoonBuggy · · Score: 5, Informative

      He comments on the issue in TFA:

      "I remember thinking, I'm gonna be rich! I'm gonna plunder the lottery!" he says. However, these grandiose dreams soon gave way to more practical concerns. "Once I worked out how much money I could make if this was my full-time job, I got a lot less excited," Srivastava says. "I'd have to travel from store to store and spend 45 seconds cracking each card. I estimated that I could expect to make about $600 a day. That's not bad. But to be honest, I make more as a consultant, and I find consulting to be a lot more interesting than scratch lottery tickets."

      Seems like a decent, down-to-earth guy; he's pretty well off already (six figure salary, if he's making more than $600/day), so I'm sure it's a prospect that was easier for him to forego than most, but it looks like he's got a good balance between the comfort of money and enjoyment of his work.

    9. Re:Small typo by c6gunner · · Score: 2

      I didn't know MIT was located in Vatican City ...

    10. Re:Small typo by Pentium100 · · Score: 2

      From TFA:

      His next thought was utterly predictable: "I remember thinking, I'm gonna be rich! I'm gonna plunder the lottery!" he says. However, these grandiose dreams soon gave way to more practical concerns. "Once I worked out how much money I could make if this was my full-time job, I got a lot less excited," Srivastava says. "I'd have to travel from store to store and spend 45 seconds cracking each card. I estimated that I could expect to make about $600 a day. That's not bad. But to be honest, I make more as a consultant, and I find consulting to be a lot more interesting than scratch lottery tickets."

      So, for him, the lottery was not profitable and interesting enough.

    11. Re:Small typo by plover · · Score: 1

      How about you do the very tiniest bit of legwork and RTFA? He explains his method so clearly that his 8 year old daughter was able to understand it. And he says that lotteries continue to produce games with statistical flaws, and that his simple analytical method keeps working, it just doesn't pay out with as high a probability.

      You can figure it all out from his article, and he's not even asking for a cut. But I'm sure he'd appreciate the 50/50 split if you voluntarily sent it to him!

      --
      John
    12. Re:Small typo by zill · · Score: 2

      Obviously he needs a cover story in case IRS makes inquiries about his yachts.

    13. Re:Small typo by Antisyzygy · · Score: 0, Troll

      They solve your problems for free because they are not obsessed with money and prestige like you are. You basically just told me that you exploit the intelligence of your former peers to your advantage, and that is why you are an "excellent" Engineer, with a capital E. You can do things when others only make it possible for your to do them. I base my knowledge on the fact that I will have an M.S. in applied math, and I am entering into a PhD in computational mathematics "somewhere". I say "somewhere" because I have three options, one for sure, one preferable, and one "meh, maybe". You are welcome to have my address too if you want to duke-it-out.

      --
      That brings me to an interesting point, / . is just "the ramblings of socially-inept, technology-literate news-mongers".
    14. Re:Small typo by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      I mean, if they have that mindset and level of intelligence they could easily have gone to a business school and gone on to make millions.

      Middle management and the front seats of taxicabs are littered with the bones of "intelligent" people who've gone to business school. I would bet the percentage of B-school grads who "make millions" is a little lower than you may think.

      I've seen the haunted looks on the poor souls who are about to graduate from the business school at my (rather prestigious) institution. I think I'd rather be flayed alive than be them.

      The best advice for someone who wants to "make millions" came from the Buddha.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    15. Re:Small typo by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Funny

      I find consulting to be a lot more interesting than scratch lottery tickets.

      Jesus, what a choice to have to make: consulting or scratch lottery tickets.

      Better to throw oneself off a cliff.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    16. Re:Small typo by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Crap...publish how to do it...and I will spend some time scratching numbers for an extra $600 a day or so....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    17. Re:Small typo by icebraining · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The obvious solution is to make a webpage to crack the code, and then make a deal with someone who has a smartphone but makes much less than $600/day.

    18. Re:Small typo by Zelgadiss · · Score: 1

      Now now ...

    19. Re:Small typo by Zelgadiss · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Wow defensive much...

      He is just stating statistics (at least those that he bumps into in his line of work) isn't easy, and what's wrong with asking his "former peers" for help if they don't mind.

      Where did he say he is an Excellent engineer?
      What makes you think he is obsessed with money? It's a job of course you do it for money.
      Prestige? You speak as if academics don't have any prestige to their jobs.

    20. Re:Small typo by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 5, Funny

      The best advice for someone who wants to "make millions" came from the Buddha.

      If you meet the millionaire on the road, kill him?

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    21. Re:Small typo by Max+Littlemore · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well you're an arrogant arsehole, aren't you? You've just accused the guy of a bunch of stuff you've derived from your own assumptions, you appear to deride the guy as being obsessed with prestige and then you go on to blow your own trumpet.

      You come off as an arrogant and hypocritical prick. And while you might be good a mathematics, I would hazard a guess you're not much use for anything else... case in point: you deride people who, knowing that they don't have the skills to do a task on their own, call on friends for help. Going it alone is generally a less successful strategy if the sum of human achievement is anything to go by.

      --
      I don't therefore I'm not.
    22. Re:Small typo by publiclurker · · Score: 2

      Why sell the tickets. I'd just keep an eye on the next available tickets, and it they were winners, buy them myself. If they were not winners, wait for someone else to buy the losers. Since I'm already at the store, my time is essentially paid for.

    23. Re:Small typo by 1u3hr · · Score: 1
      Crap...publish how to do it...and I will spend some time scratching numbers for an extra $600 a day or so....

      RTFA. He did. Of course, the lottey company pulled their cards immediately.

    24. Re:Small typo by adamdoyle · · Score: 2

      That would be a cool augmented reality app (kindof like that camera-phone sudoku solver app that OCR'd the numbers and overlaid the missing numbers in their correct boxes)

    25. Re:Small typo by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      I don't know what state you are in, but here in California, they can scan the barcode on the back to find out if the tickets are winners or not. You don't even have to do any math.

    26. Re:Small typo by Your.Master · · Score: 1

      He's Canadian. No IRS.

      In Canada (as in many countries), lottery winnings are not considered income and thus are not taxed.

    27. Re:Small typo by rastilin · · Score: 1

      My thoughts instantly turned to an iPhone app, something that can recognize the numbers on a ticket from it's onboard camera and do the cracking more efficiently.
      We don't have this game in our city, that I know of so far. But I'd definitely be game to try it. $600 is worth about two weeks of rent for me.

      --
      How do you kill that which has no life?
    28. Re:Small typo by monkyyy · · Score: 1

      agree even if he didnt get rich form it i wonder how many peoples way of life he ruined, going form state to state changing their names before they get find out

      --
      warning pointless sig
    29. Re:Small typo by lul_wat · · Score: 1

      I'm not in the USA or Canada. This is Work Visa related right

      --
      Divide a cake by zero. Is it still a cake?
    30. Re:Small typo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can't he hire a slave and pay him US$ 50 a day to do the cracking?

    31. Re:Small typo by sirambrose · · Score: 2

      The lottery system probably logs ticket sales and ticket checks to a central server. Attempting to check tickets before buying them would probably raise a red flag.

    32. Re:Small typo by LordNacho · · Score: 1

      He comments on the issue in TFA:

      "I remember thinking, I'm gonna be rich! I'm gonna plunder the lottery!" he says. However, these grandiose dreams soon gave way to more practical concerns. "Once I worked out how much money I could make if this was my full-time job, I got a lot less excited," Srivastava says. "I'd have to travel from store to store and spend 45 seconds cracking each card. I estimated that I could expect to make about $600 a day. That's not bad. But to be honest, I make more as a consultant, and I find consulting to be a lot more interesting than scratch lottery tickets."

      Seems like a decent, down-to-earth guy; he's pretty well off already (six figure salary, if he's making more than $600/day), so I'm sure it's a prospect that was easier for him to forego than most, but it looks like he's got a good balance between the comfort of money and enjoyment of his work.

      Surely he could invest some time in an iPhone app that would reduce the 45 secs? If it took say 5 sec/card, he could do a few cards each morning on the way to work. Plus it would be interesting to write the app.

    33. Re:Small typo by LordNacho · · Score: 2

      I don't know what state you are in, but here in California, they can scan the barcode on the back to find out if the tickets are winners or not. You don't even have to do any math.

      WTF? Is that not a problem for people? Surely the guys in the shop keep all the winners?

    34. Re:Small typo by EdIII · · Score: 2

      I don't see how you could make any money on your own with the complicity of the store clerks. Those tickets are in rolls which present a number of problems:

      1) How long does it take to scan a roll for winning tickets past a certain amount?
      2) How do you maintain the integrity of the roll since you would be pulling out individual tickets?
      3) Employees are usually barred from claiming tickets themselves and I have a hunch that a conspiracy to game the lottery like that is illegal.
      4) The lotteries have already gotten into trouble before and had PR scandals when they *knew* that all the big prize tickets were already sold, but kept selling losing tickets anyways. How would a store clerk be in any *less* trouble by selling tickets guaranteed to lose?

      Cracking this code is interesting, but useless. All of tickets obviously represent more revenue than the prize amounts and under most circumstances, especially the legal ones, you would have to spend the money first to crack the code.

      At most here all I see is way to not have to scratch the ticket to know you won. Which would be pretty funny since you would hand the ticket right back to the cashier and he would need to scratch it for the code to validate the ticket. You could make yourself seem like a psychic :)

    35. Re:Small typo by lxs · · Score: 1

      True. He would have kept the discovery to himself otherwise. Still, this story relates to the cracking of lottery tickets so there is some relevance. Perhaps he is so good at statistics that he made millions for shit and giggles.

    36. Re:Small typo by lxs · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Spoken like a true parapsychologist. More bad science comes out of researchers underestimating statistics than out of all other sources combined.

    37. Re:Small typo by julesh · · Score: 1

      Which is why it's not hugely profitable. At least where I am, the rolls are normally stored with about 3 tickets visible at the end. Most vendors stock about 5 or 6 different types, giving around 15 cards on display. You'd crack the visible cards, and have to buy up to 3 of the same kind of card whenever you saw a winner. If there were no winners, move on to the next store.

      The simple solution from the lottery vendor's POV is to prevent the tickets from being visible before they're purchased. But I suspect this would result in a decrease in sales, so maybe they won't bother.

    38. Re:Small typo by julesh · · Score: 1

      I don't know what state you are in, but here in California, they can scan the barcode on the back to find out if the tickets are winners or not. You don't even have to do any math.

      WTF? Is that not a problem for people? Surely the guys in the shop keep all the winners?

      No problem because you can't use the system for this purpose: it logs the queries, and triggers a fraud investigation if somebody's scanning too many tickets (they should only be scanning winners that customers bring back).

    39. Re:Small typo by gilleain · · Score: 1

      Crap...publish how to do it...and I will spend some time scratching numbers for an extra $600 a day or so....

      RTFA. He did. Of course, the lottey company pulled their cards immediately.

      Read more (and more - it's a long article). Srivastava's insight is not just a single 'hack' for one lottery ticket scheme, but that potentially all such schemes must suffer from similar flaws.

      The idea is that you can't just put completely random numbers on the ticket without risking either huge payouts or no wins at all. As the article puts it:

      "In reality, everything about the game has been carefully designed to control payouts and entice the consumer." Of course, these elaborate design elements mean that the ticket can be undesigned, that the algorithm can be reverse-engineered. The veneer of chance can be peeled away.

      So there may always be a hack.

    40. Re:Small typo by dintech · · Score: 2

      This is all very interesting but if you want to earn the big bucks, you start your own lottery.

    41. Re:Small typo by h4rm0ny · · Score: 1

      Now if he were a mangement type, he would have collected a bunch of his students, say five or six, and sent them forth to earn the money and take a cut off their earnings.

      --

      Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
    42. Re:Small typo by h4rm0ny · · Score: 1

      So I guess for the statistician, it's more like occassionaly finding a bit of money lying there. He walks in, glances at the few tickets he can see for a few moments (I bet he'd get quicker at it over time) and buys one if he knows he's going to get X money from it.

      That said, lottery tickets tend to be bought by the less affluent / educated, so it would be kind of mean. You'd essentially be subsidising your income with the efforts of the less well-off.

      --

      Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
    43. Re:Small typo by asdf7890 · · Score: 1

      He did, but by my understanding you'd need to adjust the method for each card type so it wouldn't be money earned in your idle time. And that $600 is probably a sensible maximum - you'd probably make considerably less most days. Even if the $600 is an expected average rather than a maximum, it doesn't seem to take into account limits you'll find in the small print of many cards to the effect that you can only make a small number of prize claims in a given time (assuming such limits are enforceable under your state's lottery laws/regulations).

    44. Re:Small typo by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      (six figure salary, if he's making more than $600/day)

      He said that was his consulting rate. My consulting rate is also more than $600/day, but I don't work every day (or even most days).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    45. Re:Small typo by cp.tar · · Score: 1

      That said, lottery tickets tend to be bought by the less affluent / educated, so it would be kind of mean. You'd essentially be subsidising your income with the efforts of the less well-off.

      So? Lottery, like other forms of gambling, is primarily a voluntary tax on mathematical ignorance anyway.

      --
      Ignore this signature. By order.
    46. Re:Small typo by geschild · · Score: 1

      Combining this quote from the second post in this thread:

      "I mean, if they have that mindset and level of intelligence they could easily have gone to a business school and gone on to make millions."

      with your observation:

      "The obvious solution is to make a webpage to crack the code, and then make a deal with someone who has a smartphone but makes much less than $600/day."

      Makes it quite obvious why this guy isn't in management or making millions. He has a statician's mind, not that of a business man.

      --
      Karma? What's that again?
    47. Re:Small typo by Vanderhoth · · Score: 2

      That doesn't mean the CRA won't take a closer look at your normal income and start finding things to over bill you for. When I was a young contractor I mistakenly claimed $100 income one year (As part of a larger sum), but ended up not billing for the final $100 until January 1st. That unleashed a whole shit storm of Audits, CRA lies and late payment interest fees.

      I've been audited every year since. I haven't even been a contractor for over 4 years, I work for the Government and I'm still audited because I'm an evil tax evading thief.

    48. Re:Small typo by Enigma23 · · Score: 1

      The obvious solution is to make a webpage to crack the code, and then make a deal with someone who has a smartphone but makes much less than $600/day.

      OCR FTW! :D

      --
      Ceci n'est pas une .sig
    49. Re:Small typo by mangu · · Score: 1

      (six figure salary, if he's making more than $600/day)

      He said that was his consulting rate. My consulting rate is also more than $600/day, but I don't work every day (or even most days).

      If he's a statistician I bet he can find out how much he makes on an average day...

    50. Re:Small typo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Q: Spot the difference:
              - a thief who hasn't been caught
              - a thief who has been caught

      A: Greed.

    51. Re:Small typo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Better to throw oneself off a cliff

      Sorry you will need to submit a request to the Cliffs R Us Corporation for a non-transferrable pay-per-jump license to use our patented cliff jumping business method.

    52. Re:Small typo by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Sounds like he needs to automate the process. Google Goggles can already solve a Sudoku puzzle just by taking a picture of it with a phone camera. A scanner with auto document feeder could process stacks of cards very quickly.

      Of course you still have to claim each winning card. Not sure how much work that is in Canada.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    53. Re:Small typo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find consulting to be a lot more interesting than scratch lottery tickets.

      Jesus, what a choice to have to make: consulting or scratch lottery tickets.

      Better to throw oneself off a cliff.

      Don't forget - he could also choose: Consulting for scratch lottery ticket companies ...

    54. Re:Small typo by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 1

      Why does there need to be information visible on the ticket that allows anyone (however intelligent) to work out if it is a winning ticket ...?

      To fix this they just need to make sure the ticket does not give enough information away to work this out ...

      --
      Puteulanus fenestra mortis
    55. Re:Small typo by DrXym · · Score: 1

      $600 a day tax free probably is likely to be equivalent to $1000 day salaried which would be equivalent to $240000 per annum. Not bad money at all, tax free. I think a greater danger to this kind of thing is the stores and the lottery would soon wise up to what was going on. And if not them then the tax authorities would begin wondering where your income was coming from. Then the lottery would change the manner in which they produce the cards. If you're extra unlucky you'd also find yourself arrested and hauled over the coals until you revealed how you did it. THEN they'd still change the manner they produce the cards. I think it would have been better for the guy to keep a low profile and not be greedy. Keep the day job but check the cards during his regular routine, e.g. at the grocery store while he's buying something else. Nobody would probably notice and the exploit would likely remain for a long time.

    56. Re:Small typo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, that's the difference between an MIT mathematician and a Stanford mathematician:
      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/14/joan-ginther-wins-texas-l_n_645520.html)

    57. Re:Small typo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Crack the lottery code?

      I wonder when the Slashdot will crack the HTML code so they can write pages with comments that do not spill over the right edge of the screen when you increase your fonts in Chrome.

      Slashdot needs more mathematicians.

    58. Re:Small typo by tophermeyer · · Score: 2

      Hey, there's also a great deal of entertainment value to playing the lottery.

      Once as a kid during a summer job I made that joke when I saw a truck driver playing a lotto ticket. The response he gave me was that it was only costing him $2-$3 dollars a week, and in exchange he had a plausible hope that he might someday win millions of dollars and never have to work again. To him, that was worth the couple of bucks a week.

      Also, there is a lot more to gambling than mathematical ignorance. I'll hit a casino once in a while and I almost certainly drink enough free booze to cover my losses.

    59. Re:Small typo by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      Or maybe, kill yourself until you get reincarnated as a millionaire?

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    60. Re:Small typo by Endo13 · · Score: 1

      A quote of him in TFA answers several of your questions.

      He asked several Toronto retailers if they would object to him buying tickets and then exchanging the unused, unscratched tickets. "Everybody said that would be totally fine. Nobody was even a tiny bit suspicious," he says.

      So basically, he could buy a whole roll, take it home, check the tickets at his leisure, then return the unscratched tickets for a refund.

      --
      There is no -1 Disagree mod. Slashdot.org/faq defines mod options. USE IT.
    61. Re:Small typo by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "He did, but by my understanding you'd need to adjust the method for each card type so it wouldn't be money earned in your idle time. And that $600 is probably a sensible maximum - you'd probably make considerably less most days. Even if the $600 is an expected average rather than a maximum, it doesn't seem to take into account limits you'll find in the small print of many cards to the effect that you can only make a small number of prize claims in a given time (assuming such limits are enforceable under your state's lottery laws/regulations)."

      Well, as long as there is a positive expectation to be found here...I'd be for it. Hell, you have less of one for counting cards at blackjack, and I often do that for fun and a little extra cash....why not this too?

      :)

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    62. Re:Small typo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope. Masturbate! You'll make millions.... oh, never mind.

    63. Re:Small typo by Antisyzygy · · Score: 0

      More bad research comes out of idiots or dishonest people manipulating statistics because they are trying to justify their hypothesis. Its extremely common for academics to over-report results through manipulations because that is what gets them published. If you don't get published, you will not become a professor (at least not at a university). This being the case, you get some professors and/or researchers that literally do not deserve their position because they are good at being dishonest and not getting caught. Peer review is one thing that limits the bullshit, but its hard for a reviewer to find every one of the flaws in the research they are critiquing if there are only 5 pages allowed for a conference paper. All I am saying is that flaws in research are not specific to statistics, its a more general problem.

      --
      That brings me to an interesting point, / . is just "the ramblings of socially-inept, technology-literate news-mongers".
    64. Re:Small typo by Antisyzygy · · Score: 0

      Statistics isn't hard? Let me guess, you base that on a couple of college courses? As an engineer, I've frequently run into statistical problems that neither I nor my coworkers have even the foggiest notion of how to approach. Things can get really ugly when you start dealing with the real world. You're certainly right about one thing though - most mathematicians do the math because they enjoy it. Those aforementioned problems that were beyond me? I typically recruit some mathematicians and physicists I know from college, and they solve them for free.

      Re-read his post and tell me that I am being defensive. He is stroking his own ego, and his overall tone suggests that he finds it funny to exploit his college scientist friends because they will do it for free. Furthermore, he made an assumption that I am not educated on the subject without any proof whatsoever. Frankly, I think he's kind of being a douche.

      --
      That brings me to an interesting point, / . is just "the ramblings of socially-inept, technology-literate news-mongers".
    65. Re:Small typo by Antisyzygy · · Score: 0

      You're a cocksucker. I can shout insults too without bothering with real arguments.

      --
      That brings me to an interesting point, / . is just "the ramblings of socially-inept, technology-literate news-mongers".
    66. Re:Small typo by HAKdragon · · Score: 1

      I'm envisioning the newest feature for Google Goggles...

      --
      "Our opponent is an alien starship packed with atomic bombs. We have a protractor."
    67. Re:Small typo by houghi · · Score: 1

      Statistics isn't hard?

      Some are hard, but about 73% isn't.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    68. Re:Small typo by God'sDuck · · Score: 1

      Crack the lottery code? I wonder when the Slashdot will crack the HTML code so they can write pages with comments that do not spill over the right edge of the screen when you increase your fonts in Chrome.

      They did: F1R=F0x.

    69. Re:Small typo by gknoy · · Score: 1

      I wonder if he could write some sort of rainbow table generator. Then, pattern-match the one you see versus the ones you know about.

    70. Re:Small typo by Zelgadiss · · Score: 1

      OK...
      But I still think you are being defensive and overly sensitive, adding "meaning" where there is none. :x

      Personally I don't see where he is stroking his ego.
      He even openly admitted there are tons of problems he can't solve which he then refer to his former colleagues (who are free to refuse BTW) for help.

      his overall tone

      that you imagined.

      Look if you disagree with him, feel free to prove him wrong via argument.
      Flying off a tangent about his so called "attitude" which is mostly based on how you read his post in your head is just ...

      I suppose that's the thing with the internet.
      Without seeing a person's body language and tone of voice, everyone just fill in the gaps with their own imagination and sometimes end up being insulted by an imagined slight.
      I myself is guilt of that on occasion.

      But man ... How the heck did you go from his (IMHO) fairly neutral (if a little blunt) post to thinking he is putting you down and having a big ego? O_o
      IMO you seem to have quite a persecution complex ** and are probably reading too much into things. >.>

      **Maybe you do, maybe you don't. But it does kind of look that way to me.

    71. Re:Small typo by gknoy · · Score: 1

      I think he meant something more like,

      ... to build a friendship is to build wealth,
      To maintain a friendship is to maintain wealth and
      To end a friendship is to end wealth.

      Take small account of might, wealth and fame, for they soon pass and are forgotten. Instead, nurture love within you and and strive to be a friend to all.

    72. Re:Small typo by MorpheousMarty · · Score: 1

      Hey, I have a smartphone, and make less than $600....

    73. Re:Small typo by Cytotoxic · · Score: 1

      This is all very interesting but if you want to earn the big bucks, you start your own lottery.

      But then you have the whole "seize and hold a territory" problem. Unfortunately the state beat you to that one, making the barrier to entry rather high...

    74. Re:Small typo by Antisyzygy · · Score: 1

      But man ... How the heck did you go from his (IMHO) fairly neutral (if a little blunt) post to thinking he is putting you down and having a big ego? O_o IMO you seem to have quite a persecution complex ** and are probably reading too much into things. >.>

      His post was not neutral at all. It was a thumb-to-the-nose post. Here, I will paraphrase it for you "Im an engineer that deals with difficult real-world problems that you can't possibly understand. You're just some dumb kid that took a couple college courses in statistics and thinks he knows everything. Whenever I have a problem I can't solve, I go to my friends from college because they will do it for free". That is just a dick-headed way to deal with things IMHO. He should be more humble, and grateful his friends will help him and not make assumptions about people he never met. I probably inserted meaning to some degree, but he also insulted me. I was not trying to be a gloat in my post earlier, I was just trying to refute his idea that I am some dumb kid.

      --
      That brings me to an interesting point, / . is just "the ramblings of socially-inept, technology-literate news-mongers".
    75. Re:Small typo by avandesande · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't be surprised if the ticket must be 'sold' first before it can be scanned to see if it is a winner

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    76. Re:Small typo by Zelgadiss · · Score: 1

      LOL, so that's the way you read it.

      The way I read it was

      "Easy?!? I'm guessing you must be new. In my line of work, I see tons of statistic problems that stump the best of us. The real world can be a PITA. I end up asking the maths and physic guys for those."

      if I were you I would have just reply

      "It ain't that hard IMO, I have a M.S in Mathematics though."

      and just leave it as that.

      I found your interpretation "unusual", and it seems I'm not the only one given the beating your karma took.
      But that's life I suppose, people see things differently. LOL.

    77. Re:Small typo by JTsyo · · Score: 1

      The tickets have a barcode in the back they just scan. He wouldn't bother to scratch them.

    78. Re:Small typo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Ah, the solutions of the ignorant are always so ...ignorant?

      How does one play bingo without a bingo card?

    79. Re:Small typo by EdIII · · Score: 1

      You're being too harsh.

      For the people that are actually desperate and foolishly think their lives are going to change with the next ticket, yes, they are ignorant.

      However, some people like myself love buying those tickets on load road trips. I actually have fun with them and a couple of times I have won hundreds, and one time over a thousand off a single ticket.

      It's entertainment. That's all it is. Ohhh, it also supposedly goes towards education and social programs. So I get entertainment and the feeling that I might actually be making a difference for a child's education.

      In that sense, I am mathematically *aware*.

    80. Re:Small typo by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      Do you consider poker gambling? Tell that to Daniel Negreanu, Phil Laak, Phil Ivey, etc..

    81. Re:Small typo by RewriteQuran · · Score: 0

      Science != Statistics

      --
      Govt must constitute a panel to rewrite US Constitution and Quran
    82. Re:Small typo by RewriteQuran · · Score: 0

      4 years back I cracked code for http://www.gibraltar.gov.gi/lottery

      --
      Govt must constitute a panel to rewrite US Constitution and Quran
    83. Re:Small typo by Phoghat · · Score: 1

      "and a sudoku" expert.

      --
      Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    84. Re:Small typo by Phoghat · · Score: 1

      Some people are not motivated primarily by greed.

      , "primarily" being the operative word here.

      --
      Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    85. Re:Small typo by Phoghat · · Score: 1

      Chris Angel "Mind Freak"

      --
      Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    86. Re:Small typo by spun · · Score: 1

      Actually, many people aren't motivated by greed at all, according to new economic experiments such as the Dictator game and theultimatum game. People seem to be motivate primarily by notions of fairness and reciprocity, or at least they want others to think they act fairly and with reciprocity. Okay, you could just call that part of the utility function, but I think that's the point: in general, people's utility function isn't set to "more money for me!"

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    87. Re:Small typo by Geminii · · Score: 1

      Better - make an app which uses the webcam in a smartphone to instantly determine if a ticket is a probable winner and beep/flash/something. I bet you could make a lot more than $600 a day if the analysis phase dropped from 45 seconds per card to 1.

      Ooh, even better than that - equip a bunch of people with cheap smartphones with your app. They go out, collect the tickets the phone beeps at, and bring them to you (or your representative) for cash. After 24 hours or so, the app self-erases (or replaces its guts with a fake random number generator to "predict" winners), and if they don't bring their tickets in within that time after visiting you, they get cut off and you disappear (and the app self-erases at the 48-hour mark). Another bunch of people then cash the cards in at unrelated places, and give you 3/4 of the money back in return for being allowed to keep on doing it.

      The only issue would be that newsagents and other vendors of the cards might start to wonder why winning cards are turning up in batches, even if it's never the same person with a fistful of winners. Or, if they're cashed in via a central lottery location, you'd need to make sure you didn't send in a big box of winning cards all at once with your name on it.

      I wonder - given the physical time needed to cash a set of cards out at a kiosk without raising timewasting attention (like cashing in 100 $5 cards at once), would it even be usefully profitable to drive from cash-out point to cash-out point across the country? Is there a plausible cover story you could use to explain why you had a zillion $2, $5, and $10 winners in your hand, that reliably didn't end up with the cash-out agent asking for ID or phoning the lottery commission or the cops?

      Is there anyone out there who buys genuine winning tickets for slightly less than the cash value? Who isn't likely to break your knees if your arrangement goes south?

  2. breaking news by uvajed_ekil · · Score: 5, Funny

    This just in, MIT-educated statistician Mohan Srivastava has retired suddenly at a young age and is not taking questions.

    --
    This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
    1. Re:breaking news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This just in: MIT-educated statistician Mohan Srivastava was sued for DMCA violations for demonstrating a trivial security flaw in lottery tickets.

    2. Re:breaking news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      This just in - Enrollment in MIT's Statistics course increases 600 percent.

    3. Re:breaking news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amusing, but I'm wondering if the State, upon learning that he did this after he releases these findings, would try to get their money back.

      'The House' doesn't like to lose, much less be embarrassed after the fact.

    4. Re:breaking news by definate · · Score: 1

      This just in. MIT's Statistics program balloons to an all time record high of 15 enrolled students!

      --
      This is my footer. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    5. Re:breaking news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This just in: MIT-educated statistician Mohan Srivastava has vanished amidst concerns that he had stumbled upon one of many money-laundering techniques used by organized crime cartels....in Canada.

      Nevermind. He's okay.

  3. Horatio Caine says by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Now that's *sunglasses* the ticket.

    YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

    1. Re:Horatio Caine says by spun · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Where is the "Stab that guy in the face over the Internet" device when you need it?

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    2. Re:Horatio Caine says by lul_wat · · Score: 1

      Looks like all his internet trolling caused him to get hacked *sunglasses* to death.

      YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

      --
      Divide a cake by zero. Is it still a cake?
    3. Re:Horatio Caine says by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 2

      Looks like someone found his wit *sunglasses* a little too sharp.

      YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    4. Re:Horatio Caine says by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      During the final testing stage, the developer flipped the live-fire button to ON, but forgot to change the target address from 127.0.0.1...

    5. Re:Horatio Caine says by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *stab*, *stab*, *stabbity*, *stab* *stab*.

    6. Re:Horatio Caine says by PlatyPaul · · Score: 1

      Ask [SA]HatfulOfHollow. :)

      --
      Misery loves company. Online misery loves unsuspecting random strangers.
  4. you just need to crack the UPC code on the back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    my wife used to play these and i would take them to the store to redeem the winners. the people behind the counter never looked at the results scatched off. they just scanned the UPC code on the back into the lottery machine and it told them if it was a winner or not

    1. Re:you just need to crack the UPC code on the back by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      That does a lookup to a db in most cases. The UPC only gives them a number to check the DB for, not any information about status of the ticket. All of this seems worthless unless you can return tickets you have not scratched off or if they will sell them out of order, both are things most lottery ticket sellers will not do.

    2. Re:you just need to crack the UPC code on the back by BasilBrush · · Score: 2

      TFA says otherwise.

    3. Re:you just need to crack the UPC code on the back by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      This is slashdot, we don't RTFA. You don't even have the excuse of being new here.

      I was only familiar with the PA system, which seems to do a lookup of some sort because if the phone line or other connection the lottery terminal uses is not connected it cannot validate winning tickets.

    4. Re:you just need to crack the UPC code on the back by bws111 · · Score: 1

      The bar code on the back of the ticket (the one you can see) is just for selling the ticket/inventory type things. There is another barcode that has the scratch off coating on it that is scanned to determine if it is a winner.

    5. Re:you just need to crack the UPC code on the back by jshackney · · Score: 1

      Every now and then there's an article almost worth reading. I made it through nearly 70% of this article before I gagged on its excessive text and gave up.

    6. Re:you just need to crack the UPC code on the back by SkyDude · · Score: 2

      In Massachusetts, and I presume other states, there's a limit on scanning the barcodes on scratch tickets. In Mass, the limit is three scans per day if the tickets are not winners. After three losing scans, the lottery machine shuts down for a period or until the merchant calls lottery HQ for a reactivation code. The merchant may also get a call from the security dept at lottery HQ to 'splain why the machine shut down.

      --
      == First cross river, then insult alligator.
    7. Re:you just need to crack the UPC code on the back by BasilBrush · · Score: 2

      Correction: YOU and some others don't read the article. And you lower the quality of the site enormously by commenting without doing so. Plenty of other people do read the article first, especially the ones who get modded up.

      Don't judge others by your own low standards.

  5. You know the old saying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Lotteries are a tax on people who are bad at math. And people who are very good at math.

    1. Re:You know the old saying by BluBrick · · Score: 1

      No, the people who are very good at math are the tax collectors.

      --
      Ahh - My eye!
      The doctor said I'm not supposed to get Slashdot in it!
    2. Re:You know the old saying by HomelessInLaJolla · · Score: 0

      Take any data set in any area of statistics. Try to find the algorithm or function which most closely approximates that data set. See the stock market for example. A completely random set of data with billions of points generated every day but, if you manage to find a proper subset, then you are able to generate Fibonacci type sequences to approximate some of it. The latest and greatest approximators are the the ones who make promotions.

      So take any apparently data set. Take the apparently random data set generated by lottery hoppers--those big vats of flying balls which pick the winning numbers.

      Now envision that the microchips inside of each and every lottery machine in each and every grocery and convenience store and filling station is nothing more than an algorithm trying to approximate the data set.

      With enough statistical points, and considering that the randomly generated numbers are, from what I have been told, actually generated at some other system which sends them to the point of sale system...

      If you have a hundred thousand slightly different algorithms then the people buying lottery tickets are not trying to win the lottery--they are mechanical Turks whose job it is to locate the algorithm which most reliably approximates the lottery ball hopper.

      Why would anyone want to approximate the lottery ball hopper? Well, I imagine that the lottery ball hopper has those turning wheels and the airflow is precisely controlled because the lottery ball hopper is probably an experiment to approximate some profit generating system on the stock market.

      So, basically, the lottery isn't really a tax on people who are bad at math. The lottery is a way for people to pay to be servants who are helping the lottery system owners to continue to exploit the system of financial investment (stock and bond market, banking industry, etc.) But don't the people who own the lottery also own the stock market? Maybe, maybe not. The people who own the lottery may be a subset of semi-ridiculously rich people who are still trying to get ahead of and compete with some other subset of semi-ridiculously wealthy people. Wealth doesn't satisfy anyone because there is always somebody with more.

      --
      the NPG electrode was replaced with carbon blac
    3. Re:You know the old saying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Take any data set in any area of statistics. Try to find the algorithm or function which most closely approximates that data set. See the stock market for example. A completely random set of data with billions of points generated every day but, if you manage to find a proper subset, then you are able to generate Fibonacci type sequences to approximate some of it. The latest and greatest approximators are the the ones who make promotions..

      8:53PM: Restate my assumptions...

    4. Re:You know the old saying by porl · · Score: 1

      as soon as the words 'stock market' and 'fibonacci' were mentioned i got '10:15, restate my assumptions' and the music in my head. glad i wasn't the only one! :D

      for anyone who doesn't know, this is what we are referencing.

  6. Even easier code somewhat well known by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I used to work in a convenience store, and one of the employees told me of a a trick that I didn't believe until I saw it in action: simply find a winning ticket (~1 of 3) and taking every third in sequence (they all had serial numbers; adjust occasionally for non-winning tickets). No, it wasn't perfect, but I watched more than once as he quite legally turned a profit with scratch tickets: one of those "no f-ing way" moments, but in draw out over 5-10 minutes.

  7. When was the last time you picked.... by modmans2ndcoming · · Score: 2

    When was the last time you were allowed to look through and then pick the scratch off tickets you wanted from a spindle of tickets behind the counter.

    While the game is flawed, there is no real way to get only the winners.

    1. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

      While the game is flawed, there is no real way to get only the winners.

      Unless you work with a store employee. Oh, it would NEVER happen....

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    2. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You obviously don't live in Ontario, Canada. There are (allegedly) lots of lottery retailers here willing to let you look through their tickets for a split of the winnings.

    3. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 1

      I think one rules in Ontario is that you get to pick the ticket and not the counter guy.

    4. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by JWSmythe · · Score: 1

          I was kind of wondering the same thing. Maybe, just maybe, if you were personal friends with someone in the store, they'd let you look through the tickets for the winners. There's very likely a law of some sort about that too. Most likely, you and the employee who assisted with, would end up in jail for conspiracy to defraud the state and/or lottery commission. I'm fairly sure they have to give you the next ticket, not let you pick through the stack until you find one you "like".

          I'd say the best you could hope for is to ask to see the next ticket. After working through the numbers, you could then decide if you want it or not. As excited as I've seen clerks get about some guy who won $50 a few weeks before, I'd have to say that your chances are still shit. Most likely, he'll tell you to buy something or get the fuck out of his store.

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    5. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah, no way a guy named Mohan Srivastava would know anyone who works in a 7-eleven.

    6. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      No no, you examine the whole roll, write down which ones you want and have the person behind the counter by them for you as they come up. You pay him 10% of the take and you probably more than doubled his income.

    7. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by Charliemopps · · Score: 2

      Exactly, given the right cellphone app to decode them, a gas station attendant could clean up.

    8. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When was the last time you were allowed to look through and then pick the scratch off tickets you wanted from a spindle of tickets behind the counter.

      While the game is flawed, there is no real way to get only the winners.

      they're usually in order so you just have to buy the first one/ask the guy the number, and buy X amount until you get the winning number

    9. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by LordKronos · · Score: 4, Informative

      RTFA

      "Lots of people buy lottery tickets in bulk to give away as prizes for contests," he says. He asked several Toronto retailers if they would object to him buying tickets and then exchanging the unused, unscratched tickets. "Everybody said that would be totally fine. Nobody was even a tiny bit suspicious," he says. "Why not? Because they all assumed the games are unbreakable. So what I would try to do is buy up lots of tickets, run them through my scanning machine, and then try to return the unscratched losers.

    10. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      RTFA and you'll find out how you can look at lots of tickets and take your pick of which to buy.

    11. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by HelioWalton · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I don't think I've ever seen any store in Ottawa NOT let you pick your scratch ticket.

    12. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by tixxit · · Score: 1

      I always see people rifling through a set of cards, trying to "feel out" a winner. Of course, these people aren't statisticians and aren't actually doing anything better than random picks.

    13. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by nschubach · · Score: 1

      They don't even need that. All they have to do is scan the card on those bar code scanners and it will tell you which ones are winners. I haven't seen them in a while (probably because someone figured it out...)

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    14. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by Obyron · · Score: 1

      I'm in Ontario. My corner store has all of the scratch tickets loose in a sort of tray behind glass. You ask for one, and the slide out the tray and set it on the counter to let you pick which ticket you want. I wasn't aware that this conferred any sort of advantage, since your odds are the same no matter what... (unless you have the sort of tickets mentioned in TFA)

      --
      --Obyron
    15. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by stonewallred · · Score: 1

      Nice idea but it doesn't work. The scan also cancels the ticket for sell. In my state each ticket is scanned prior to sell, along with each roll of tickets being "activated" by scanning the wrapper barcode. So once you set in the store scanning tickets, you have to cash the winning tickets at that store (it is no good anywhere except that store and the state lottery offices once it has been scanned) and the store will have a crapton of losing tickets which have to be paid for and can not be sold. Good luck convincing your manger and his manager that it wasn't you on the video scanning those rolls of tickets.

    16. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by Mistlefoot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So:

      Step 1) Be a retailer, or get a job for a retailer, selling lottery tickets. This would get past your "there is no real way to get only the winners"
      Step 2) Take all the scratched tickets that people throw away onsite, and scan them for hints as to how to pick winners.
      Step 3) Buy a bunch of probable winners to see how accurate you are, and if you are accurate, profit.

      Now a few things come to mind.
      Many people like to buy the "new" tickets as they seem to "win" more often. This would be normal if took a few weeks for retailers to get a handle on how to pick the winners. You win more often when "chance" is in play, and less often when the probably winners have been weeded out.

      It would also explain how retailers cash a high percentage of winners, in Canada at least, were this has been in the news for the past few years.
      Here is one such article, and note, this has led to changes in Canada. Seemingly not good enough.
      http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/story.html?id=4be28910-9cec-4785-b471-f37849a29008&k=17633

    17. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's more to it then that. Underneath the scratch off is usually a 4 digit 'pin' (it's actually the last 4 digits of a partially random SN) for the ticket it self. Scanning in the ticket will only give you everything up to that 4 digit number which then has to be scratched off to tell. As far as I can tell these 4 numbers are completely random.

    18. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by thesandtiger · · Score: 1

      You can buy tickets in bulk and then return the ones you don't use - most stores will take them back. They do this because often employers will buy bunches to give as gifts to employees and then return them.

      If I remember right, they even mention this in the Wired article.

      --
      Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
    19. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by antifoidulus · · Score: 1

      Meh, I'd rather have the yodel. Mmmm...obscure.

    20. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      They mostly do it as a reason of letting the player think they have a little control in the matter. Same as when you can pick your own numbers in 6/49, rather than just do the quick pick. Really your odds don't increase, but people think they are controlling it more, making them more likely to play. Too bad we don't have these sorts of tickets. Would make it quite easy to pick a winner every time.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    21. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because here in Ontario (where the statistician is based) you ARE able to pick your tickets from the bunch. A flat display unit forms the top of the cashier's counter in just about every convenience store. When you want to buy a ticket, you point at the one you want.

      People buy more tickets when they think they have a system to choose the lucky ones. Turns out this guy found one.

    22. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I dated a girl in the early 90's whose brother and a friend would go to the gas station just up the road and pick the tickets they wanted (this is in Milwaukee, WI). So, you aren't required to take just the next ticket that comes along. You can pick and choose which tickets you want.

    23. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are security measures to combat that, at least in MA. For winners over $20 or losers the machine has the clerk scratch off the "void if removed" section and enter part of the code. if you scan 3 losers in an hour or so, it locks out the lottery machine completely.

    24. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by Seraphim1982 · · Score: 1

      With some information picking your own numbers in the 6/49 could give you an advantage (i.e. increase your expected rate of return). If there were some numbers that were more common then others you could avoid those to minimized the odds that you would share a jackpot.

    25. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by telso · · Score: 2

      Actually, it has nothing to do with retailers in Canada being a high percentage of winners. What actually happened was that when a customer who won a large prize handed in his or her ticket and the machine beeped, the retailer told the customer he or she won a free ticket and then took the multi-figure winning ticket to the lottery commission pretending he or she bought it. It was plain old fraud, and a number of retailers are currently under indictment for it. (Also, as your article states, the tickets in questions were draws, not scratch tickets.)

    26. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by SheeEttin · · Score: 1

      Step 1) Be a retailer, or get a job for a retailer, selling lottery tickets.

      Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to win if you're an employee of a store selling lottery tickets or in the immediate family of someone who is, in order to prevent something like this happening.
      Lottery tickets have a lot of fine print on the back. This condition should be right there.

    27. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by Eivind · · Score: 1

      You do get a tiny bit of control by getting to pick your own 6/49 numbers.

      It's true that your pickings do not influence the odds of winning. But since the prize-pot is shared between the winners, and certain numbers are played more commonly than others, your pickings does influence the average size of any win.

      In short, your expected return will be higher (but still negative) if you pick numbers that are seldom picked. This basically means many high numbers, because a very common pattern of picking numbers is using birthdays. Someone born 25/7 with a kid born 10/3 will cross 3,7,10 and 25. Since there's only 12 months and no month has more than 31 days, the numbers in the 32-46 range gets picked more seldom.

      Similarily, numbers surrounded by much myth and superstition, gets picked often. The dumbest possible numbers to play are 3, 7 and 12.

      (though it's dumb to play anyway!)

    28. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by Hellsbells · · Score: 1

      And also

      1) Create a mobile phone app that can detect winners from a photograph and send the results along with a log in ID to your web-server.

      2) Give this app to many people who work behind the counters of these stores in return for half the profits.

    29. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In Israel, retailers are forbidden from participating in certain games, because they have (or might have) an insider's advantage. Sometimes this is extended to retailer's family members.

    30. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by 1u3hr · · Score: 1
      When was the last time you were allowed to look through and then pick the scratch off tickets you wanted from a spindle of tickets behind the counter.

      RTFA. He tried that and it was no problem. I guess a lot of people like to choose their "lucky" numbers, so you normally do get to choose. And that's not even considering giving a kickback to the clerk.

    31. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by dave024 · · Score: 1

      They don't allow you to scan losers? Some of the lottery tickets can be too much of a hassle to do, and I will just ask the clerk to check if they are winners or not. I try to stick to the simple ones though.

    32. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      Pick numbers > 31. You will have the same chance of winning as before, but a much lower chance of having to share the jackpot with someone else. That is because a lot of people pick birthdays as the numbers.

    33. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AFAIK, many people chose their lottery numbers through dates. Birthdays, anniversaries, etc. This means that the numbers from 1-31 are the most picked, with an even higher percentage for 1-12. If you don't want to share the prize, avoid those numbers.

    34. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by JTsyo · · Score: 1

      So the following is not a good set to play?
      4, 8, 15, 16, 23, & 42

    35. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that would be simple,just get an owner of a party store or wherever you sell tix,
      to conspire with you and share profits, you go thru the roll and pull out the winners
      and put a fresh roll on and when someone wants that particular scratch off, you have the losing tix
      behind the counter,behind the roll and give the mark a losing tik. when you sell out those,you repeat,
      You got to have a criminal mind to figure these
      things out buddy

    36. Re:When was the last time you picked.... by Eivind · · Score: 1

      There are no "good" sets - the average return is low enough that even playing rarely played numbers, has an expected return below unity.

      Also, the risk (in the mathemathical sense: expected deviation from the expected return) is huge.

      What are those numbers ? This weeks winning ones ? If by good you mean "likely to win", then all numbers are precisely equally good. I merely pointed out that if by "Good" you mean "likely to get a large prize IF they do win", then playing rarely played numbers, is a superior strategy. (but still inferior to not playing at all!)

  8. Old News by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    This was in Wired Magazine earlier last month.

    http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/01/ff_lottery/all/1

    1. Re:Old News by Yoik · · Score: 2

      Even older than that. He's Canadian, and CBC reported on it in 2006:
      http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2006/11/21/lottery-probe.html

  9. Seems to be the same as the Wired Article by joeflies · · Score: 5, Informative

    The same article appeared in Feb 2011 issue of Wired even though Lottery Post doesn't seem to go out of its way to attribute the author and cite the issue properly.

    1. Re:Seems to be the same as the Wired Article by colsandurz45 · · Score: 2

      You're right. I read the this article in wired earlier this week! Even all the images are the same and they didn't remove this line from TFA: "In one of his most recent trials, conducted at the request of Wired," This is real copyright infringement.

    2. Re:Seems to be the same as the Wired Article by Riktov · · Score: 2, Funny

      Copying others' work without attribution, in a forum dedicated to the idea of reaping riches without working for it? I would have never imagined!

    3. Re:Seems to be the same as the Wired Article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's a tiny little world image with the word "Wired" next to it at the very bottom of the article before the comments.

  10. Ehhhh, Cool? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is nothing special... This information is told to many people that cash in lottery tickets in order to verify that they are legitimate. Obviously it is a well established fact that the codes are not random, they are in fact a mathematical formula that ensures that the state who issues the ticket will ultimately make money. Plus this information is still not helpful to figure out how to "beat" the lottery. Yes, you could discover if it is a winner or not without scratching but you can't pick and choose lottery tickets. I wish I had published these discoveries when I turned 18 and figured this stuff out for myself. Good work for going to MIT though.

    1. Re:Ehhhh, Cool? by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      You can pick and choose lotter tickets all you like, if you are working at a place that sells them. Just exam each new ticket as it comes up and buy any winning one that is available. You could even pay off an employee to do this with you.

    2. Re:Ehhhh, Cool? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should have RTFA before posting, because you made no sense whatsoever.

  11. Wired Story? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    FYI, I think this is a Wired story by Jonah Lehrer:

    http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/01/ff_lottery/all/1

    If so, please modify the post to direct traffic where it ought to go.

    Cheers!

  12. You don't have to be non-random for fixed winners by istartedi · · Score: 1

    They must be dumbing the explanation down. You don't have to be non-random to control the number of winners. You can use a deterministic process to generate all the tickets in a series, and then a true random process to control the order in which the tickets are printed. If they're not doing that, they're really screwing up. Even a fairly dinky computer should be able to store patterns for all the tickets in a Big F'n Array, and use real random numbers to shuffle the Array. Then hit "print".

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
  13. Knock Knock.. by SuperCharlie · · Score: 1

    Who's there?
    Lottery Commission.

    DOH!

    1. Re:Knock Knock.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's the problem? they're probably there to offer him a job improving the lottery. And they know for a fact they have to pay him better than he can make winning their existing lottery or he wouln't bother.

  14. lawsuit in... by Odinlake · · Score: 2

    lawsuit coming in, 5, 4, 3 ....

  15. Coolest part of the article by artor3 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    After calculating that his average winnings would come out to $600 a day:

    "People often assume that I must be some extremely moral person because I didn't take advantage of the lottery," he says. "I can assure you that that's not the case. I'd simply done the math and concluded that beating the game wasn't worth my time."

    Moral of the story for those who play the lotto: Even if you figure out how to break the game, it still isn't worth playing.

    1. Re:Coolest part of the article by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      If we estimate 220 working days a year this means he makes more than 132,000 a year. Seems like either he makes quite a bit or he needs to think bigger. Get 10 people all doing this and have him take 50% of the profits.

    2. Re:Coolest part of the article by MBCook · · Score: 1

      I thought that was pretty cool too. But he said it took 45 seconds or so to figure out if a ticket was a winner, and that was the big issue. But that was back in '03. Today, you could easily program a smartphone to recognize the pattern on the ticker and figure out for you if the ticket is a winner in a second or two, easily increasing the rate you could do this.

      It would still be hard work and I'd imagine it would be very boring and tedious to do every day, but you could do it faster today.

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    3. Re:Coolest part of the article by rm999 · · Score: 2

      I'd guess he would rather expend his energy contributing to society rather than cheating a lottery. It's the difference between creating money and creating wealth. The people who concentrate on the latter tend to be more successful in the long run.

    4. Re:Coolest part of the article by tyme · · Score: 1

      um, that's between $150,000 and $215,000 a year, depending on if we are talking about only working days or not. While that's not CEO-money, it's nothing to sneeze at (it puts you in the top 20% of households in the U.S.A.). I'd say that would be worth my time, and the time of just about everyone that I know, assuming that you could pull it off in no more than 40 hours per week.

      --
      just a ghost in the machine.
    5. Re:Coolest part of the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Do you know any stores that will allow you to inspect their scratch-off lotto tickets to pick out the specific ones on the roll you'd like to buy? How would you pull this off?

    6. Re:Coolest part of the article by h4rr4r · · Score: 2

      Wow, you are naive. The name Bernie Madoff mean anything to you? And don't act like that finally caught up to him, he protected everyone else and will probably be released in 10 years when he is sick and old. Maybe High Frequency trading rings a bell? Perhaps you have heard of the tricks Microsoft used to gain and keep a desktop monopoly?

    7. Re:Coolest part of the article by artor3 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sure, but those are big crooks. Ripping off the lotto to the tune of $150k a year makes you a small crook, and small crooks do big time.

    8. Re:Coolest part of the article by Skidborg · · Score: 1

      The big thing would be that you would still have to wait around the store for the winning tickets to come up so you could buy them.

      --
      Supporter of the +1 Over Dramatic mod option. In memory of apk.
    9. Re:Coolest part of the article by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Couldn't you just buy them in bulk and return them like the article says? Then you can use a machine to scan and select winners and losers. Then just return the losers and cash in your winners.

    10. Re:Coolest part of the article by kabloom · · Score: 1

      It wasn't, for him, on that game, but the article goes on to speculate that it's extremely profitable for some people.

    11. Re:Coolest part of the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      that's PRE-tax. If I recall correctly, aren't gambling earnings heavily taxes on both State and Federal level?

      So let's use your high number of $215K. Let's assume 30% for both State/Federal. You are now at $150.5

      Secondly it's assuming you got it 100% correct 100% of the time. Also assumes they have those tickets and never runs out. Also assumes he finds a certain amount of winners pre-roll. All assumes the places let him inspect the tickets for 45 seconds each before purchasing. Lots of conditions there. If any of those aren't meet your rate of return goes down. Say this only works out for you 70% of the time, you are now at: 105.35K

      Business expenses? You need transportation. Your now at $90.35K

      Third, after awhile, don't you think the clerks would be suspect? "This guy comes in every day at 2 pm, stands around for 7 minutes staring at the counter then manages to buy 3 winning lottery tickets in a row. Every day, like clock work".

      Fourth, he said he made more than that on consulting.

      Fifth, your entire job is based on one ticket. What if it's discontinued? Not a lot of job security there.

    12. Re:Coolest part of the article by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Which is why I suggested having lots of people doing it for you. Then you might be able to make enough for the proper campaign contributions. Maybe not though.

    13. Re:Coolest part of the article by Microlith · · Score: 1

      That and they'd probably arrest him at some point.

    14. Re:Coolest part of the article by stonewallred · · Score: 1

      You can steal lot more with a pen than with a gun, and even more if you can order folks with pens to do your stealing for you.

    15. Re:Coolest part of the article by mysidia · · Score: 1

      I'll bet his tune would be a bit different if he were unemployed.

      However... if "$600 a day" is chump change to him, then he must be a really good statistician.

      I wonder by what definition he doesn't consider himself already rich?

    16. Re:Coolest part of the article by glwtta · · Score: 2

      it puts you in the top 20% of households in the U.S.A.

      Wouldn't that put you in the top 3% or so? Only need $90k for top 20%.

      --
      sic transit gloria mundi
    17. Re:Coolest part of the article by mysidia · · Score: 1

      If we estimate 220 working days a year this means he makes more than 132,000 a year. Seems like either he makes quite a bit or he needs to think bigger. Get 10 people all doing this and have him take 50% of the profits.

      That would require revealing his methods to more people, which would be sure to make them useless eventually, as "those 10 people" are not going to be able to keep quiet about the exploit.

      Assuming it's even easy to find 10 people who are good enough with memory and mathematics to execute the exploit.

      I would say reliably using the flaw to find winning tickets requires a level of intelligence slightly higher than the average person.

    18. Re:Coolest part of the article by Melibeus · · Score: 1

      How would I pull this off?
      Buy a lot of them then sell the duds to some dimwit at 50% off.

    19. Re:Coolest part of the article by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Not when you can just give them smartphones with the software to do the job installed on them. You can even setup the application to stop working if you do not get paid.

    20. Re:Coolest part of the article by drsmithy · · Score: 2

      I'd guess he would rather expend his energy contributing to society rather than cheating a lottery.

      No need to guess:

      "People often assume that I must be some extremely moral person because I didn't take advantage of the lottery," he says. "I can assure you that that's not the case. I'd simply done the math and concluded that beating the game wasn't worth my time."

      It's the difference between creating money and creating wealth. The people who concentrate on the latter tend to be more successful in the long run.

      Most of the people who got out of the most recent GFC best off were most certainly in the game of "creating money" rather than "creating wealth". Ie: bankers.

    21. Re:Coolest part of the article by c0lo · · Score: 1

      Wow, you are naive. The name Bernie Madoff mean anything to you?

      Can I have a sincere answer from you: do you take Bernie Madoff as your role model?

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    22. Re:Coolest part of the article by martin-boundary · · Score: 1

      It would still be hard work and I'd imagine it would be very boring and tedious to do every day, but you could do it faster today.

      I think that's exactly his point. The money simply isn't worth it if it means you're bored out of your skull for 8 hours each day flipping cards. Much better to be paid less and do real math all day.

    23. Re:Coolest part of the article by ugen · · Score: 1

      And, of course, part of the reason is that after even a short "streak of luck" (say, a couple of weeks) he'd be discovered and then likely face charges. So, not only is it not worth his time, but it's not worth the trouble of going to jail for a few thousand $.

    24. Re:Coolest part of the article by MoonBuggy · · Score: 1

      He's not just some pure mathematics professor in a university office somewhere; TFA mentions "...his day job, which involves consulting for mining and oil companies..." so I'm not that surprised to hear he's making decent money already. From the (brief) picture the article paints of him, I get the impression that he's a nice enough guy - if he's on one or two hundred thousand a year I'm sure he's free from worries about money and can afford various shiny luxuries, but thinking "I've just cracked the lottery" would probably flash up an idea of multiple millions in a matter of months - that's rich as in "Aston Martin or Lamborghini" rather than rich as in "decent house, nice suits, and a good holiday every year".

    25. Re:Coolest part of the article by Junta · · Score: 1

      Not a good long term strategy.

      A lottery would notice someone winning every time with high frequency. They would at *best* change the game to correct the exposure, at worst figure some way to prosecute him for something or another.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    26. Re:Coolest part of the article by seifried · · Score: 1

      He works in the mining industry and helps companies find precious metals (no doubt he helps them create geological survey maps/etc. which are then used to plan out mines/etc, pretty expensive to get wrong) which means yeah, he probably makes more than $132,000 a year if he's any good at his job (which I suspect he is).

    27. Re:Coolest part of the article by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      No, I think he should have been stripped of all assets and placed on welfare, with a court order preventing him from ever holding a job paying more than minimum wage and that any gifts to him would have to be surrendered to compensate his victims. He should also have been forced to live in section 8 housing the rest of this life. The same should have been done with all assets his wife and his children that he had working the scam with him. This would have cost the taxpayer far less than his prison stay and at least some of his victims could have been compensated. It would also be a far more fitting punishment.

      I personally would not do rip off the lottery, but I am not ever going to be rich. I also am not naive enough to believe that the truly rich got that way by creating wealth when we have clear evidence that for a significant fraction this is not the case.

    28. Re:Coolest part of the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I 3 slashdot conversations. Just like when HTML chat was first invented.

    29. Re:Coolest part of the article by MoonBuggy · · Score: 2

      Charges for what, exactly?

    30. Re:Coolest part of the article by maxume · · Score: 1

      Or just notice it and change the rules (either not allow inspection until purchase, or fix the information leak on the tickets).

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    31. Re:Coolest part of the article by maxume · · Score: 1

      Right, because the kind of people that will spend their days slogging through a few hundred lottery tickets a day looking for winners are exactly the kind of people that will still give you 50% of their winnings the day after you teach them the trick (rather than say, financing their own lottery ticket buying with the money you paid them on the first day).

      And the people running the lottery, a system designed to bilk low income people out of money, will not notice someone massively turning the tables on them.

      The idea that he would extract more than a few tens of thousands of dollars is just preposterous.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    32. Re:Coolest part of the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If we estimate 220 working days a year this means he makes more than 132,000 a year. Seems like either he makes quite a bit or he needs to think bigger. Get 10 people all doing this and have him take 50% of the profits.

      TFA says he's a statistician with multiple degrees from elite universities. I'd bet he makes a good bit more than 132K per year. If he doesn't, he probably could, easily.

    33. Re:Coolest part of the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      after his sons suicide, i am pretty sure madoff would rather be a ditch digger than a millionaire

    34. Re:Coolest part of the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except I'm fairly certain the lottery company would figure out pretty quick that the same guy was winning 200 times per year.

    35. Re:Coolest part of the article by recharged95 · · Score: 1

      Also that computers do not generate true random numbers. Only deterministic random numbers.

      Just sayin'

    36. Re:Coolest part of the article by MoonBuggy · · Score: 1

      Computers can't generate true random numbers, but it's easy enough to feed them in from a hardware source.

    37. Re:Coolest part of the article by tragedy · · Score: 1

      You do know that the man specialized in robbing charities, right? It is possible that he has a conscience when it comes to close family members, but none whatsoever for the rest of humanity, but I think it's more likely that he simply doesn't have a conscience.

    38. Re:Coolest part of the article by c0lo · · Score: 2

      I also am not naive enough to believe that the truly rich got that way by creating wealth when we have clear evidence that for a significant fraction this is not the case.

      See... go again and read the post you are replying to... Here's the snippet I think is relevant:

      It's the difference between creating money and creating wealth. The people who concentrate on the latter tend to be more successful in the long run.

      Are you sure you aren't confusing "being successful" with "being rich"?
      E.g. would you consider Mother Theresa unsuccessful?

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    39. Re:Coolest part of the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most places in the US would never let you do that. Generally scratch-offs are locked in a clear plastic housing at the retailer by a member of the state's lottery commission, you get the next ticket(s) on the roll, and no refunds. Canada sells tickets individually where you can pick the ones you want, Which presumably makes it much more trivial for a retailer to return unscratched tickets back into inventory.

      However, every scratch-off ticket I've ever seen has the grid of numbers covered as well as the smaller set of numbers you'd try to match them to. The only variable visible on an unscratched ticket is the control number at the bottom--Figure out how to crack that, then you're in business! (As soon as you get that job at the convenience store)

    40. Re:Coolest part of the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clearly, you didn't graduate from MIT.

    41. Re:Coolest part of the article by tragedy · · Score: 1

      As long as he's not being tried somewhere where the gaming businesses run the state, like Las Vegas, that would be an interesting criminal case. The whole point of these games is to give people the impression that skill can somehow help them win. If they then arrest people because their skills are helping them win, they have an awkward case. It's like card counting in casinos. Done with team collusion or with some other methods, it might legitimately be considered cheating. If it's just one player sitting there and evaluating the odds in their head, then it's not cheating, it's just someone playing the game the way it's meant to be played. If there's some big flaw in the game logic, it's the fault of the producers of the game, not the players who figure it out. That's what we expect from a game.

      One thing that everyone, including the article, seems to be missing, or at least failing to mention, is that the lottery commissions and ticket producing companies don't care about this problem. Or at least they have little incentive to care. Same is true if the lotteries are being used to launder money. Heck, it's profit for them if they are being used to launder money. They produce a certain number of winners and a certain number of losers. As long as the whole book gets sold, it doesn't matter to them who the winners and losers are. They don't have to pay out any more money than they would otherwise. The only real problem to them is if the majority of people catch on to this and either stop playing in disgust, or start applying these techniques and, as a result, the stores are full of stacks of tickets that no-one will buy. As it stands, that's just not going to happen. How many people will read this article? And which people? The first word in the title is statistician. It has four whole syllables, quite aside from the fact that means math. The lotteries main customer base probably won't read this article. If they do, they probably won't understand it. If they do understand it, they probably still won't have enough fundamental understanding of the ideas behind it to apply it to anything other than that one ticket type. If they do, then more power to them, they're in the minority who can stop being taxed by the lottery and can start taxing their peers. The lottery commission still gets to sell the same number of tickets and pay out the same amount in prizes.

    42. Re:Coolest part of the article by aliquis · · Score: 1

      Your average lotto player does $ 600 / day?

    43. Re:Coolest part of the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Chances are if he's smart enough to crack this, he probably earns at least a 6-figure salary in his normal day job. He also says he's a consultant and he's probably earning $100+ /hr. Probably half the people in Slashdot earns at least 6-figures!

      I'm trying not to sound elitist but chances are if your reading this comment on this website and you have a basic understand of math and technology, your probably have the ability to earn more then (at the very least) 60% of the population of this country.

    44. Re:Coolest part of the article by ZorinLynx · · Score: 1

      Some people are quite daft, but anyone buying from someone peddling lottery tickets for 50% off who doesn't suspect there might be a scam going on is a complete failure in the brain department. :)

    45. Re:Coolest part of the article by linuxrocks123 · · Score: 2

      Oddly enough, plundering the lottery isn't very different from robbing charities. In most cases, lottery proceeds are directly used to fund public schools. Methodically ripping off public schools for a living is, in my opinion, ethically problematic. Of course, ripping off poor, uneducated people to fund public schools is also, in my opinion, ethically problematic.

      --
      vi ~/.emacs # I'm probably going to Hell for this.
    46. Re:Coolest part of the article by Nimey · · Score: 1

      Not worth his time because the government would twig and he'd go to jail.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    47. Re:Coolest part of the article by coliverhb · · Score: 3, Funny

      Mother Theresa was a fraud, and for that matter died after having amassed a lot of money that NEVER went to helping the poor and needy. But, yes, she was successful. Hell, she even convinced you and at least 1.166 billion other people that she was a saint!

    48. Re:Coolest part of the article by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Not when you can just give them smartphones with the software to do the job installed on them. You can even setup the application to stop working if you do not get paid.

      Don't you think the clerk at the store would start getting suspicious, when 10 people walk in with smart phones and start rooting through the scratch off tickets, typing numbers on the front of the tickets, or taking pictures of tickets?

    49. Re:Coolest part of the article by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      If we estimate 220 working days a year this means he makes more than 132,000 a year. Seems like either he makes quite a bit or he needs to think bigger. Get 10 people all doing this and have him take 50% of the profits.

      That's if you do it consistently and always.

      Fact is, most lotto dealers only have one, maybe two of those cards on display, and they will be highly pissed off if you asked to look at their roll and cherry picked the right cards, especially since this can take many minutes.

      So in reality, you'll be hitting many lotto dealers daily in an attempt to find a few cards that have potential winners, and if you become predictable, the retailers may begin to recognize you.

      So now you're driving all over town hitting every lotto retailer trying to find a good ticket, all that legwork and driving (gas, parking, etc) will start adding up. Plus, retailers might not like it should you go to their counter, spend a minute looking at their cards and leaving, especially if they're particularly busy (and imagine you're behind that guy in line who spends a minute with the cashier and doesn't buy anything).

      It's a lot of work for rather low returns after all the extra expenses you've just incurred plus the whole a**hole factor of holding the line up while you see if there's a potential winner and leave empty handed.

      And then, when the game is over (the campaigns only last a few months), it's all over. The trick only works on one specific game - you can't apply it to any lotto game in the case - only that game and maybe similar ones.

      I can see why it isn't worth it. Hell, the lottery corporation probably will let the campaign finish off since the vulnerable game will be gone soon as all the tickets get bought out by people applying the trick.

      The only interesting thing, is he found a way to break the game that the company producing the games has to now work around.

    50. Re:Coolest part of the article by avilliers · · Score: 1

      This is a case where the fine article is worth the time. I'm hardly a regular, but by far the most interesting one I've clicked on in quite a while. It addresses all your hypotheses:

      If we estimate 220 working days a year this means he makes more than 132,000 a year. Seems like either he makes quite a bit

      From TFA: "To be honest, I make more as a consultant, and I find consulting to be a lot more interesting than scratch lottery tickets." Not surprising for a talented, experienced person with technical degrees from MIT and Stanford--either in the degree of compensation or the matter of where his interest lies. He could probably shoot for 5 times that in the financial industry (pre-crash, anyway) if money was his main goal. Instead he chose "geological statistics."

      or he needs to think bigger.

      From TFA: "Instead of secretly plundering the game, he decided to go to the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corporation. Srivastava thought its top officials might want to know about his discovery. Who knows, maybe they'd even hire him to give them statistical advice." So yeah, less work for a potentially bigger paycheck, bypassing legal issues and the necessity of hiding the secret of his success . . . he does OK in the "think bigger" category. :)

      Get 10 people all doing this and have him take 50% of the profits.

      The article goes on to discuss statistical anomalies in winning ticket distributions. It is possible people are doing this, although there is "no direct evidence."

    51. Re:Coolest part of the article by Your.Master · · Score: 1

      He's in Canada. Lottery winnings are not considered income in Canada, and therefore are not taxed at all.

    52. Re:Coolest part of the article by LBt1st · · Score: 1

      Easy, get a job at a convenience store.

    53. Re:Coolest part of the article by rastilin · · Score: 1

      Go to jail for what? I'm curious what's so illegal here. Is there an actual law that says you can't understand the lottery and win?

      --
      How do you kill that which has no life?
    54. Re:Coolest part of the article by Alarindris · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up.

      I work at a gas station. You get the next ticket in the roll, there is no picking your ticket. Also, we cannot play lottery for obvious reasons. So working at a convenience store won't help either.

    55. Re:Coolest part of the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit.

      He still has no choice in which ticket he gets. He can point to the type of ticket he wants and then ask for a certain number of tickets. It doesn't matter what the printer printed on the tickets that allow him to see if he won without scratching. It could actually say "YOU WON!"

      He doesn't get to look at, for instance, an entire roll of tickets, then say, "I want that one, that one, that one, ... hmm, that one, that one, .... and that one. He gets what is given to him. The fact is there are more losers than winners, that's how these games make money for the state. You will always be behind.

      His statement is no more bold than me saying, "I have cracked the secret code of this type of lottery ticket! People for years have never know if they won or lost after they bought a ticket. Now, after my amazing discovery, it turns out that if you SCRATCH off the grayed out areas, it WILL TELL YOU IF YOU WON! IT'S INCREDIBLE. But sadly, now that I have figured that out, I don't want to play, because it would be like cheating since I now know 100% of the time which tickets are winners and which aren't".

      Basically this is just another example of how statisticians lie for a living all the time. They never take in to account all variables in their calculations. Often the most important ones. Take for example political polls. Need I say more?

      Let me be clear. His fundamental insight was just a facade, a mathematical lie. He never had or will have a choice in which ticket he receives; hence, it does not matter what the ticket says on the front, back, or even under the grayed out areas. He will always be a loser and a liar.

    56. Re:Coolest part of the article by thsths · · Score: 1

      Well yes, but it also shows that he is a better mathematician than a businessman.

      If you really want to make profit, you write an app to do the math, and sell it for 50 bucks. No hassle, and still a good share of the profit. :-)

      (Of course there is some doubt about the legality, and about sustainability...)

    57. Re:Coolest part of the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Umm, 600 a day is 156,000 per year. Unless you make more than this, which apparently he did, it's not a bad idea at all.

    58. Re:Coolest part of the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Moral of the story for those who play the lotto: Even if you figure out how to break the game, it still isn't worth playing.

      No, moral of the story for those who play THIS SPECIFIC scratch game: This particular method of breaking the game isn't worth playing if you make more than $600 a day already.

      $600 a day, every day for a year, is just shy of $200k per year. That's a lot more than most people make in the US right now. Granted, that's including weekends and holidays, but even if you only do it 100 days out of the year you're still making $60,000 tax free (small winnings don't get reported). And 60K a year is still a pretty decent paycheck for a few months' effort.

    59. Re:Coolest part of the article by dzfoo · · Score: 1

      From the article:

      "People often assume that I must be some extremely moral person because I didn't take advantage of the lottery," he says. "I can assure you that that's not the case. I'd simply done the math and concluded that beating the game wasn't worth my time."

            -dZ.

      --
      Carol vs. Ghost
      ...Can you save Christmas?
    60. Re:Coolest part of the article by mysidia · · Score: 1

      I get the impression that he's a nice enough guy - if he's on one or two hundred thousand a year I'm sure he's free from worries about money and can afford various shiny luxuries

      Well, $600 a day is $156,000 a year; $219,000, if he works weekends, assuming he could keep it up.

      Obviously he wouldn't want to work weekends with such a boring job... and there is this issue that, he could not guarantee getting that much, before the lottery company noticed, closed the loophole, and tried to sue for their $$ back.

      But that is a million after 8 years, just doing it on his own, assuming he can keep it up that long, without the lottery co. patching the hole.

      The fact remains, that if he hired some help, he could indeed potentially do much better. Apparently he is happier with the glory and respect of being the guy who discovered the hole in the system and did not cheat it; instead of defeating it, he is revealing it, obviously solely for the purposes of fame, and to prevent anyone else from doing it.

      If you couldn't make decent money exploiting the bug, then there'd be no point in trying so much to get the big bad lottery companies to fix it; who apparently feel playing intelligently and discovering fair ways to get an edge in the game is against some rule of the lottery that nobody can ever win (except by pure chance, and at the dismal rate pre-determined for winning).

    61. Re:Coolest part of the article by David+Chappell · · Score: 1

      Let me be clear. His fundamental insight was just a facade, a mathematical lie. He never had or will have a choice in which ticket he receives; hence, it does not matter what the ticket says on the front, back, or even under the grayed out areas. He will always be a loser and a liar.

      Unless, of course, your information is wrong. It appears that in several Canadian provinces it is wrong, purchasers are allowed to pick the ticket from some kind of a tray. It is (ironically) a gimmick intended to give players the impression that it is a game of skill. The irony is that this mathematician has found that it really is a game of skill.

      Both you and the author of the article have made the same mistake: you have both assumed that lottery tickets are sold in the same way everywhere. Because he assumes that the buyers are allowed to pick everywhere, he does not mention the fact that the mathematician was allowed to pick. Because you assume that they are nowhere allowed to pick, you erroneously decided that the metamathematical is a fool.

    62. Re:Coolest part of the article by digit1001 · · Score: 1

      I've always heard, "lotteries are taxes on those with poor math skills..." I guess you should add to that, "...and not worth the effort of those with good math skills"

    63. Re:Coolest part of the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It would, but you are apparently not clever enough. You just check the next ticket if one was sold and if it is likely a winner, you buy it yourself.

      There is likely a reason that you have to work at a convenience store. You are obviously not the brightest bulb.

    64. Re:Coolest part of the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's only "ripping off" the lottery because for some reason, one of the rules of the game (like most gambling) is that the house has to have a net win. Not only will you not cut into their net win, but the fact that for even trying, you are breaking the rules makes the entire thing bullshit and the idea that winning a game makes you a bad guy just goes to show how stupid the whole thing really is. More people who "steal" from the house the better, whether it's a mob-descended casino or a greasy sleaze-ball state government. Why the HELL shouldn't an individual have the right to personal gain from intelligence but these institutions have the right to steal from the poor and ignorant without fear of anyone even trying to win?

    65. Re:Coolest part of the article by gknoy · · Score: 1

      Let's assume you get two weeks of vacation, and work 5 days a week.
      50 weeks x 5 days x $600 = 250 x 600 = 150000

    66. Re:Coolest part of the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree the lottery isn't worth playing if you haven't figured it out. And the result of a legal scheme like this is the state coming down on you, even if you've done nothing wrong.

      But you agreeing that $219,900 some a year isn't worth playing? You don' t have any friends, people you can hire, family, to do this?

      I mean damn. Just because you read /., doesn't mean you automatically make over $40k a year. I make less than $30k, and I can easily program a robotic system to take the card and feed it into a manual scanner, and that's completely overlooking the self-feed, automated ones you can pick up for $400, or rigging some DSLR. I doubt I'd have much difficulty finding a hire to build out an OCR system for the resulting images, and lottery tickets are probably cut on the same card stock, so it makes them pretty easy to select the winners out from a stack, if you don't grab them as you find them.

      I don't think it would be difficult to crack $1million a year just using your own social contacts, and easily $5million automated without social contacts in about 2-3 months.

      I think the real thing is not getting "caught" despite it being legal. The state has a lot of lawyers and people that would deliberately make your life difficult, even if or because you've simply beaten the system they control. After all, it is the lottery, a cash cow for government.

    67. Re:Coolest part of the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Moral of the story for those who play the lotto: Even if you figure out how to break the game, it still isn't worth playing.

      Only if you ignore the key portion of his statement. Which is that he makes more than that already consulting. If he made less than that, $600 a day would be more than worth playing.

      If you are earning less than $600 a day, which is most people in this county, you would have benefited greatly from "breaking" the game. Your moral sucks.

    68. Re:Coolest part of the article by secretcurse · · Score: 1

      You don't seem bright enough to read what the guy fucking wrote. He said the clerks aren't allowed to buy tickets. The clerks have a fucking camera pointed at them all the time. It's not very bright to break a rule like "don't buy lotto tickets" when you're being recorded for your entire shift, on every shift.

      --
      I'm using all of my mod points to mod ancient memes down. Please join me.
    69. Re:Coolest part of the article by Man+Eating+Duck · · Score: 1

      Of course, ripping off poor, uneducated people to fund public schools is also, in my opinion, ethically problematic.

      Actually, assuming that the lottery sells all (or close to all) of each batch of tickets, they will get their proceeds no matter what. It's the other buyers who funds your gain, as they will win less. It may be more accurate to say that they'll lose even more :)

      If the lottery on the other hand routinely discards lots of unsold tickets, then such plundering would hurt the lottery as they would pay out a disproportionately high amount of winnings against sold tickets.

      --
      Are you a grammar Nazi? I'm trying to improve my English; please correct my errors! :)
    70. Re:Coolest part of the article by Man+Eating+Duck · · Score: 1

      If the lottery on the other hand routinely discards lots of unsold tickets, then such plundering would hurt the lottery as they would pay out a disproportionately high amount of winnings against sold tickets.

      It suddenly struck me that this is irrelevant, as you probably are unable to examine a significant portion of each batch before picking winning tickets. Oh well, bedtime for me :)

      --
      Are you a grammar Nazi? I'm trying to improve my English; please correct my errors! :)
  16. Old story... by froggymana · · Score: 1

    I read this a week or so ago in Wired Magazine. /. really needs to get better about getting articles out when they happen...

    --
    "To prevent this day from getting any worse, I'll just read ERROR as GOOD THING" 1GJU8xLuDKDxEs4KLf8fAGyptoDsqvEsBT
    1. Re:Old story... by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Funny

      A week is not old for slashdot, I can see you are new here so we can let it slide this once. In the future you should probably also not read the articles.

    2. Re:Old story... by arbitraryaardvark · · Score: 1

      have there been any sudden changes in lottery procedures in the past month or so? have any of you guys gotten up off the couch and tested this at your local lotto shop? my guess is somewhere there's a state lottery still vulnerable to this approach.
      didn't neal stephenson write a story about gaming the lottery?

    3. Re:Old story... by iamhigh · · Score: 1

      And the link to the random site instead of the original source is the norm as well.

      --
      No comprende? Let me type that a little slower for you...
    4. Re:Old story... by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      and BTW, the /. pros only need to read the name of the story, not even the scoop to be able to comment. And the gurus haven't even done that in years.

  17. There's an App for that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Android App in 3 2 1.

  18. Re:You don't have to be non-random for fixed winne by TheAlgebraist · · Score: 1

    I think the issue is that there is in a lot of these tickets there is visible data and hidden data and you win if they match up somehow. Apparently for a lot of these tickets, the process used to generate the tickets is biased in that certain visible data was highly correlated with a ticket being a winner. This is not surprising, as generating random sequences of anything is hard, and I would imagine it is even harder when you want a random sequence of pairs (visible data and hidden data) that meet certain conditions with a given probability distribution so that the correlation of (any type of visible data pattern) to (any type of hidden data pattern) is tiny. The surprising bit in the specific case in the article is that the visible data pattern giving the high correlation, the presence of singletons, was relatively easy to spot.

  19. Re:You don't have to be non-random for fixed winne by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The problem is that he reverse engineered their deterministic process for generating winners and losers and then was able to pick out the winning cards based on the partial information they revealed. The order in which they are printed doesn't really matter. Given any random subset of the cards he could pick the winners out of them at a much higher % than he should have been able to if they were actually random.

    Sounds to me like they should figure the game out in such a way that a real random number generator will generate winners and losers at the desired rates on average and then just rely on the law of averages / large numbers to give them their desired take.

  20. Here's the article from Wired magazine (good read) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here's the link to an article about this in Wired. A very interesting read.

    http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/01/ff_lottery/all/1

    - Joenonymous Howard

  21. Re:You don't have to be non-random for fixed winne by jschultz410 · · Score: 4, Informative

    The problem is that he reverse engineered their deterministic process for generating winners and losers and then was able to pick out the winning cards based on the partial information they revealed. The order in which they are printed doesn't really matter. Given any random subset of the cards he could pick the winners out of them at a much higher % than he should have been able to if they were actually random.

    Sounds to me like they should figure the game out in such a way that a real random number generator will generate winners and losers at the desired rates on average and then just rely on the law of averages / large numbers to give them their desired take.

    Forgot to login, sorry for the dup ... :(

  22. Original story was from Wired by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    TFA on Lottery Post was plagiarised from Wired.

    Original story: http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/01/ff_lottery/all/1

    1. Re:Original story was from Wired by LordKronos · · Score: 1

      plagiarized? Usually when you plagiarize something you don't mention the source. See that mention of "Wired" at the bottom below the pictures/above the comments?

  23. Re:You don't have to be non-random for fixed winne by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

    You can use a deterministic process to generate all the tickets in a series

    If you started at the time of the big bang, such a process wouldn't have finished yet.

    Even a fairly dinky computer should be able to store patterns for all the tickets in a Big F'n Array

    Ha ha.

  24. Why major in math? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Because I am calling you from my boat, BITCH!

    1. Re:Why major in math? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  25. Re:You don't have to be non-random for fixed winne by RightwingNutjob · · Score: 1

    Even still. In the tic-tac-toe game, it seems like you should be able to generate a set N of truly random tickets, and then randomly select exactly M of them to be winners by choosing the hidden numbers after you've picked which tickets should win and which should lose? The only quirk would be having to validate each loser to verify that you don't accidentally make a winner, but that should be sufficiently rare to not through a wrench into the plan.

  26. Re:You don't have to be non-random for fixed winne by maxume · · Score: 1

    They are scratch off tickets, not drawing tickets. So each round of each game (the different games are just different gimmicks, for marketing) has a fixed number of tickets and a fixed number of winning tickets, and both those numbers are 'small'.

    --
    Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
  27. He figured out the pattern from 2 tickets by mbenzi · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I read the Wired article; the amazing thing is he did this with sample size of two.

    1. Re:He figured out the pattern from 2 tickets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, he came up with a hypothesis, a hunch, just after 2 tickets. It took him many more tickets to confirm his hypothesis, hence him buying more and more tickets afterwards to confirm it.

    2. Re:He figured out the pattern from 2 tickets by louic · · Score: 1

      Not really. He created his hypothesis based on sample size two. After that he bought more lottery tickets to test this hypothesis.

  28. Re:You don't have to be non-random for fixed winne by tixxit · · Score: 1

    I think you hit on the problem he found; if it was truly randomized (ie. just order), there'd be far more winners than they actually have. This means the set of cards that are likely to win are underrepresented. If there is a pattern they have in common, then you simply need to look for it. This guy figured out that winning tickets are likely to have a high frequency of singleton numbers and chose those.

  29. Erm. Why don't they hide both sets of numbers? by milage · · Score: 1

    Surely they just need to hide both sets of numbers so that they can't be seen before you buy? Then in order to play you have to scratch off both sets of numbers?

    1. Re:Erm. Why don't they hide both sets of numbers? by LordKronos · · Score: 1

      Because it's a complex game. It's sort of like playing 10 bingo cards at the same time. You need a way to mark what spots on each card have been drawn. To do that, you scratch off the spaces to mark them. If you have to scratch off the entire game board, then you have no way to mark the spaces on your cards (since lottery tickets are designed so that you don't need anything but your scratching device to play).

    2. Re:Erm. Why don't they hide both sets of numbers? by CtownNighrider · · Score: 1

      I had a similar thought. Wouldn't it be safer to publish the winning numbers (ones on the left) and have the little boards hidden? Then they can do whatever they want and it would be much much harder to predict winning cards, hell the winning numbers can be the same every time.

    3. Re:Erm. Why don't they hide both sets of numbers? by bws111 · · Score: 1

      They could do that. They could also dispense with the whole 'game' idea and just have a single box that reveals how much you won. But remember, the whole idea is to sell tickets. If all the numbers are hidden, no-one that has 'lucky numbers' or any such thing is going to buy the ticket if they can't see any numbers first.

  30. Re:You don't have to be non-random for fixed winne by artor3 · · Score: 1

    The problem isn't the order of the tickets, its that the tickets have visible info on them that gives away the hidden info. Of course, you're still right that you don't need to be non-random to control the number of winners. Just use a true random process to generate the tickets, and a separate process to analyze the tickets created and hold back any winning tickets once you pass a certain quota (and re-introduce them to the stream at a random point if you fall too far below quota).

  31. Big North American industries (FTFA): by AaronParsons · · Score: 1
    FTFA:

    The North American lottery system is a $70 billion-a-year business, an industry bigger than movie tickets, music, and porn combined.

    Wow... that IS big!

    1. Re:Big North American industries (FTFA): by nasalicio · · Score: 1

      Wow... that IS big!

      That's what she said.

  32. lotto and big slot wins are tax-free within Canada by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 1

    lotto and big slot wins are tax-free within Canada

  33. If you'd Read TFA ... by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How do you tell the difference between an MIT mathematician and a smart MIT mathematician? One talks to the media, the other is a millionaire.

    If you'd read the fine article, you'd have seen that he calculated how much he'd earn by using his system and how long it would take - and found that it was far lower than his consulting pay rate. So if he spent time doing it rather than his day job he'd be taking a pay cut.

    Sounds to me like a GOOD mathematician - one who applies math to ALL the aspects of the problem and comes to the right conclusion.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    1. Re:If you'd Read TFA ... by trentblase · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Of course he applied economics only halfway. He could have sold the algorithm to someone with lower opportunity cost. Someone who makes $100 a day should be willing to split the $600 with him.

    2. Re:If you'd Read TFA ... by haystor · · Score: 2

      He just got his name spread across the country for the price of selling the algorithm which will surely be immediately changed.

      --
      t
    3. Re:If you'd Read TFA ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not either or, he could have done both. If he hadn't published, there would be no need to change the algorithm until someone eventually figured out what was going on. At which point, his name would probably be spread around just as much, if not more.

    4. Re:If you'd Read TFA ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But imagine what this will do to his consulting fees. Hell, I think a fair number of state lottery organizations will want this guys services, plus anyone who reads this article and is looking for a good statistician. He makes money based on how many people know his name, and that's probably more valuable than simply scamming the lottery.

    5. Re:If you'd Read TFA ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well the problem is this. He could sell the algorithm for a lot of money, but a poor person can't afford to buy it.

      Or he could enter a partnership with someone and go 50/50 or whatever.

      But then you need to deal with someone, and I'm sure it would be a pain.

      He did the smart thing and got free publicity for himself and his business.... Maybe even some work from that lotto company too.(since I'm sure they would want the algorithm to understand how to predict winners....)

    6. Re:If you'd Read TFA ... by delvsional · · Score: 1

      He did the smart thing and got free publicity for himself and his business.... Maybe even some work from that lotto company too.(since I'm sure they would want the algorithm to understand how to predict winners....)

      Can you tell me his name without scrolling up to the top? I didn't think so. I doubt his will ever be a household name.

      --
      Oh Crap, I'm an optimist.....
    7. Re:If you'd Read TFA ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's a mathematician, not a business major :-)

    8. Re:If you'd Read TFA ... by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      Because the publicity of going to the media is worth $0, right?

    9. Re:If you'd Read TFA ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He gave up the opportunity of illicit gain, unlike the lottery, for the fame and recognition, notwithstanding, was also possibly motivated by the fact that he is an outstanding person and wouldn't want to cheat anyone using the mathematics that he loves. Consulting is much easier on the books. Although there is a line in the tax code that allows for this claim, I think.. Wouldn't the boys and girls down at the lottery be a little miffed or are they actually fair game for this exploitation?

    10. Re:If you'd Read TFA ... by Burning1 · · Score: 1

      I'm guessing that, as a consultant, having his name on something like this is worth significantly more than $600 a day.

    11. Re:If you'd Read TFA ... by Geminii · · Score: 1

      Or figured out ways to reduce that 45 seconds to near-nil.

  34. numb3rs plot by metalmaster · · Score: 1

    Numb3rs was a tv series that focused on the FBI solving crimes with the help of a mathematician. One of the episodes centered around a plot very similar to this.

    A person who worked with the state lottery commission tried to and succeeded in cracking the code for one of the scratch off tickets. However, they never cashed in the small winners. The end goal was to find and cash in a ticket worth 10 million. It seemed like one of the more farfetched ideas until i read about this

    1. Re:numb3rs plot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Numb3rs was a spinoff tv series about a pair of brothers, the sons of Alex Reiger: one, a mathemetician, sufferred from severe synesthesia, the other, an FBI agent, was the toughest jew that ever lived. All the episodes shared the same formulaic plot.

  35. Lottery: the regressive tax by AaronParsons · · Score: 2

    the vast majority of tickets are purchased by about 20 percent of the population. These high-frequency players tend to be poor and uneducated, which is why critics refer to lotteries as a regressive tax.

    And yet a Massachusetts auditor for the lottery says of people gaming the lottery system:

    The problem is that when there's a lot of money involved, unscrupulous people are always going to be looking for new ways to game the system, or worse.

    Exactly. So why don't I feel sorry for them?

    1. Re:Lottery: the regressive tax by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Because the unscrupulous folks are really the ones running the lottery. Don't believe that it pays for schools BS either, in most states it goes into the general fund.

    2. Re:Lottery: the regressive tax by skids · · Score: 1

      No no, don't you see? It can't be a corrupt system because the state officials outsource the game design to private industry, which of course is the holy grail of incorruptibility.

      (Ouch. I must remember to take my tongue back out of my cheek before chewing.)

  36. Yay math! by JThaddeus · · Score: 1

    For years I've said the the lottery is a tax on those who don't know math. Now I realized that it's a boon to those really know their math.

    --
    "Love is a familiar; Love is a devil: there is no evil angel but Love." --William Shakespeare ('Love's Labors Lost')
  37. obat alami.net by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it could have broken relationships.

  38. This guy is a one hit wonder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I work for another provincial lottery in information security and one of my colleagues met this guy following OLG's tic tac toe incident in 2003. There was indeed a problem with that game. That game was entirely created by the OLG and printed without further analysis according to OLG's own specifications. The printing companies usually create the logic behind a lottery ticket. It's not a mistake that they would do. The guy later got a contract for a year by the OLG and given full access to other ticket's printing specs. He was never able to find a flaw with another scratch game...

  39. Claude Shannon by ve3id · · Score: 1

    There are people who say that Claude Shannon, of 'Shannon's Equation' fame, made more money by winning lotteries using his statistical knowledge that in his day job as inventor of information theories. Maybe the key is to keeping it quiet?

  40. Re:You don't have to be non-random for fixed winne by plover · · Score: 1

    They are probably doing exactly the sort of thing you suggest, and it turned out to be highly correlated to winners instead of "should be sufficiently rare".

    One problem is that saying "should be sufficiently rare" isn't an analysis: it's a guess based on your personal expectations. "This system is so complex it must be equal to random" has never worked out well for cryptography, either. The lottery algorithms really need to be vetted by experts.

    --
    John
  41. Real geeks by Datamonstar · · Score: 1

    "Once I worked out how much money I could make if this was my full-time job, I got a lot less excited," Srivastava says. "I'd have to travel from store to store and spend 45 seconds cracking each card. I estimated that I could expect to make about $600 a day. That's not bad. But to be honest, I make more as a consultant, and I find consulting to be a lot more interesting than scratch lottery tickets."

    A real geek would have built an iPhone app and let it do the work for him... or her.

    --
    The eternal struggle of good vs. evil begins within one's self.
    1. Re:Real geeks by secretcurse · · Score: 1

      That would've been a hell of a geek. Srivastava found the flawed cards in 2003. It would've been pretty damned hard to write an iPhone app several years before the iPhone was even invented...

      --
      I'm using all of my mod points to mod ancient memes down. Please join me.
  42. Re:You don't have to be non-random for fixed winne by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

    Sure. So that's why they use algoritms for generating winning and losing tickets. The GPs suggestion of generating all possible permutations and then picking winning and losing tickets from that selection is impossible, at least for the ticket design discussed in the article.

  43. The flaw in the "system" by dimer0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    After playing quite a few of these games, I have seen this pattern too. I can look at a ticket (I'm a fan of the crossword game), and look for the less-common letters, and know basically whether or not I stand a good chance of winning. The problem here though - let's say I buy 5 tickets and don't scratch them because they all appear to be losers. What gas station have you been to that will take them back, or exchange for other tickets? None. You're buying the next 5 tickets off the roll. So what if you know that 1 out of the 5 has a really good shot at winning - you already paid for the other 4 and lost.

    1. Re:The flaw in the "system" by dalmor · · Score: 1

      Sell them to others for like %75 of the price(Buy 3 get the 4th free). I would imagine the ones that would already buy a scratch off would also bite at a "deal".

    2. Re:The flaw in the "system" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I highly recommend reading the article as it - at least the version on Wired - discusses this.

    3. Re:The flaw in the "system" by Chapter80 · · Score: 1

      As the article said, retail outlets buy back unused tickets - just say that you bought a whole bunch as give-aways, and here are the ones left over.

      Well, the article actually said that he would ask first if they'd take back the unused tickets BEFORE he bought them. Then buy a whole roll, and return the unused ones.

    4. Re:The flaw in the "system" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The person selling the tickets could buy every winner.

    5. Re:The flaw in the "system" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem here though - let's say I buy 5 tickets and don't scratch them because they all appear to be losers. What gas station have you been to that will take them back, or exchange for other tickets? None.

      Actually they mention this in TFA - most gas stations were willing to take back unscratched tickets

  44. Re:You don't have to be non-random for fixed winne by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I had to do the same thing for a bingo game. (5x5 grid). However in this case it was a for a short-term game (One night)

    Basically I just chose the numbers that would win, created all the possible permutations of winning numbers (12345,13245 etc.) for each axis (up, down, diagonals) then, from that array, randomly selected winners until I got the desired number of winning cards.

    Fill in the blank numbers for the cart then randomly created the losing tickets and make sure that none of the lines match a winning line from the original winner array.

    It worked for me. sure, there might be some collisions which means I have to regenerate the ticket again but with 10,000 winners are a HUGE number of possible losers it didn't exactly increase the generation time by anything noticeable.

  45. The real humor by ComfortablyAmbiguous · · Score: 2

    The real humor from TFA comes from reading the comments that follow it. A quick read through tells you that the lottery commission has nothing to fear.

    1. Re:The real humor by zookie · · Score: 1

      Those comments were frightening... particularly the one from CarHauler...

    2. Re:The real humor by KingAlanI · · Score: 1

      Lottery advice: the good, the bad and the ugly. Sifting them apart is a challenge that requires keeping a clear head. (For instance, some other lottery "advice" I ran across seemed to suffer from a statistical fallacy along the likes of "50% of the population is below average.)

      --
      I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
  46. Charity by Myopic · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If I were him, I might have gone down to the local soup kitchen and told a couple homeless people about it, and given them each a few tickets to demonstrate it. That community could have benefited for a few weeks or months before the lotto figured it out.

    1. Re:Charity by Riktov · · Score: 2

      Just make sure you do it at a soup kitchen in an area where you'll never go or be recognized again. Last thing you want is a bunch of winos hounding you down yelling "Give us more of those lotto tickets!"

    2. Re:Charity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep, because what homeless people need is another quick (unsustainable) fix...

    3. Re:Charity by KingAlanI · · Score: 1

      The problem is, would the homeless guys be able to implement the MIT geek's system?

      --
      I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
    4. Re:Charity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The booze and drug dealers would benefit.

    5. Re:Charity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good way to land a bunch of homeless people in prison. Not quite so charitable.

      Gambling businesses have a history of suing anybody who finds a way to get better odds than the "bank" grants them. Gambling is an officially sanctioned, organised fraud. Only those who run it are allowed to have any advantage whatsoever.

    6. Re:Charity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A nice idea in principle, but difficult, logistically. It takes computing time to crack the tickets. Perhaps if the homeless people had smartphones...

    7. Re:Charity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I were him, I might have gone down to the local soup kitchen and told a couple homeless people about it, and given them each a few tickets to demonstrate it. That community could have benefited for a few weeks or months before the lotto figured it out.

      Before being taken to jail for cheating on the lotto!! Brilliant, make the homeless happy for a while then when not expected, zang! Social Cleaning!

    8. Re:Charity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have a very abstract idea of homelessness. While many people who are homeless are better problem solvers and thinkers than some of the people that we are putting into colleges today, they are in that circumstance for complex reasons. While some of them have the cognitive ability to understand this system, do you really think they have access to the machines that make these complex calculations possible in a short frame of time?

      The last time I went to my library, there were certainly many homeless people there. Most were playing internet games and sitting around. Others were sleeping in places where they were not probable to be seen and kicked out.

      Some were writing job applications; some were studying; none of them have access to the programs and hardware that make this analysis possible. Perhaps, in an ideological world, one of them would even be able to look at the mathematics this guy has done and simplify it to an algorithm that would always beat the lottery.

      I would imagine that an MIT researcher has access to machines that can pound out calculations on an order of magnitude faster than any machine that a homeless person has access to.

      Your point of view is that money solves problems, but there are extremely deeper societal issues that must be addressed to 'give homeless money for a bit'

    9. Re:Charity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It would also get them off the streets, since they would be arrested for fraud.

    10. Re:Charity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      awe isn't that cute

    11. Re:Charity by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      For definitions of benefit that mean 'O.D. with the new found wealth'.

      Now that you mention it, that is a benefit for the community as a whole.

      They are homeless for a reason.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    12. Re:Charity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering that Lotto Tickets are a substantial source of tax income...I'd say the community already benefits from them...Especially that said soup kitchen.

  47. Re:You don't have to be non-random for fixed winne by maxume · · Score: 1

    Well, it is somewhat reasonable to infer that the O.P. meant enough permutations for the game, not all the possible permutations.

    --
    Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
  48. Re:You don't have to be non-random for fixed winne by istartedi · · Score: 1

    When I said "series", I meant "series of tickets" as in "series of games to determine who is the champion of baseball". In the case of the former, the number is at most 7. In any case, the word "series" does not, to me, imply astronomical numbers.

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
  49. Really? He didn't miss step 2 by Wrexs0ul · · Score: 1

    1. Notice non-random numbering on lottery tickets
    2. Research lottery tickets and crack the code to money
    3. Call press conference

    Don't we all know what step 3 should be?

    -Matt

    --
    --- Need web hosting?
    1. Re:Really? He didn't miss step 2 by azalin · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty confident he put that as step 4, because his market value as a consultant went up quite a bit.

  50. It's not about randomness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The trick is stringing people along so that they'll keep buying as they try and chase a winner. $2 here, $10 there, the small winners are spread throughout the book fairly evenly with the hope that people will come back and rather than collect their winnings, buy more tickets.

  51. Re:You don't have to be non-random for fixed winne by istartedi · · Score: 1

    After reading TFA (it was actually quite interesting) I think you hit the nail on the head. The scratch-off material was opaque; but the singletons leaked data past the physical barrier.

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
  52. Not Good Enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So I can make a web page full of Mickey Mouse cartoons and stuff? And it's all ok if I say "Copyright by Disney" way down at the bottom of it? I don't need to ask permission or anything? Wow, that's great! Thanks for the info!

    1. Re:Not Good Enough by harlows_monkeys · · Score: 1

      So I can make a web page full of Mickey Mouse cartoons and stuff? And it's all ok if I say "Copyright by Disney" way down at the bottom of it? I don't need to ask permission or anything? Wow, that's great! Thanks for the info!

      That would be copyright infringement. It would not be plagiarism.

  53. Re:You don't have to be non-random for fixed winne by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You sir are poor at Math.

  54. top 20%!? by rusl · · Score: 1

    Actually $150K puts you in the top 15% of US income and $215K puts you in a group numbering less than 7% of US households. Everywhere, but especially in the US, people like to think they are richer than they are and that their potential to be rich is greater than it is. This is why so many Americans vote against their class interests - they all think they might one day be millionaires so they don't want an estate tax for when that happens, and they think they won't get sick and old like everyone else.

    --
    Stupidity is its own reward.
  55. reference by rusl · · Score: 1
    --
    Stupidity is its own reward.
  56. Re:You don't have to be non-random for fixed winne by RightwingNutjob · · Score: 1

    From my read of TFA, it looks like they didn't generate random boards and then picked winners, but generated winning board/hidden tickets and losing board/hidden tickets from different distributions, yielding the easy crack.

    If you generate all random boards with a full set of 72 symbols (to guarantee no repeats on a ticket), then you can uniquely identify a winning streak anywhere on the board and write it in the hidden spaces. I'll buy that my guess about sufficient rarity with a reduced set of 39 symbols may be BS, but I don't think they were trying to do what I suggested.

  57. OT: example of petty math professor by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 1

    heh "...mathematicians... can be as petty as anyone"

    Reminds me of some recent news along those lines.

    --
    This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
    1. Re:OT: example of petty math professor by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 1

      Calling a CSUN professor a mathematician is a bit of a stretch. He may have a PhD in mathematics, but he's really more of a babysitter than anything else. I say this as a former student of that mediocre institution of higher learning.

    2. Re:OT: example of petty math professor by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      OT re: sig: This is not sufficient: it says nothing about the seasons. (Middle could be "Unnecessary summer" or winter, and it would fit. :)

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
  58. Story plagiarised from WIRED by 1u3hr · · Score: 4, Informative
    "WIRED " has an interesting story". Fixed that for you.

    Yet again, Slashdot links to some parastic site that copied the original story rather than the source: http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/01/ff_lottery/all/1.

    1. Re:Story plagiarised from WIRED by 1u3hr · · Score: 5, Informative
      Also, this all happened eight years ago. Here's an article from 2006:

      http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2006/11/21/lottery-probe.html

      Toronto statistician Mohan Srivastava also discovered a way the tickets could be decoded to predict a winner on the game "Tic Tac Toe" nearly three years ago. Srivastava would look at the numbers on the ticket, and if a sequence of numbers was lined up in tic-tac-toe fashion and were not repeated anywhere else on the ticket, it was likely a winner. "If someone explained the trick to you, I think, I actually know, a child could do it," Srivastava said. He contacted the OLG about the trend, and while the corporation recalled unsold tickets of the game, it never went public with the information.

    2. Re:Story plagiarised from WIRED by makomk · · Score: 1

      Apparently, it's still happening, though.

    3. Re:Story plagiarised from WIRED by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WOW! A post from 2014. This is like seeing Back To The Future but this time it is real.

    4. Re:Story plagiarised from WIRED by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Heh, way to fail at math.
      2011-(2006-3) = 8

  59. Re:You don't have to be non-random for fixed winne by Trapick · · Score: 1

    Sounds to me like they should figure the game out in such a way that a real random number generator will generate winners and losers at the desired rates on average and then just rely on the law of averages / large numbers to give them their desired take. (

    The companies that print the lottery tickets would love to - but in most Canadian provinces at least, this is expressly forbidden. The payout must be guaranteed, not theoretical - and the people who write the laws are not generally the people who know anything about statistics/probability/mathematics, so it wouldn't do much good to explain the math works out in the end. Also, the kind of tickets he broke is a very specific type - games where some info is revealed (think a crossword puzzle where you have some letters already). So the really easy solution is to not have these types of tickets, and only sell "blind" lottery tickets - where it's all scratchable area.

  60. A consultant. by Mateorabi · · Score: 2

    He's a consultant. The first thing I though reading this article was that he's fishing for customers. Why break the lotto for $600 a day when you can get yourself hired by the lotto companies to check their work by showing them how weak their current auditors are?

    --
    "You saved 1968." - Ms. Valerie Pringle to the crew of Apollo 8

    1. Re:A consultant. by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      Yes, the simple answer is that if he's making more than 600 a day consulting now then after he gets lots of attention over this he'll be able to charge even more.

    2. Re:A consultant. by nelsonal · · Score: 1

      His consulting work relates to geology.

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
  61. What are you smoking ? Not worth it ??? by aepervius · · Score: 1

    600$ a day, 5 open day a week, that's 12000 to 15000 a month. Maybe that guy earn more than that per month, and maybe on slashdot this is the median salary (I doubt it) but for most of the people 12K to 15K a month is enormous. Try telling the same sentence "not worth playing for 600$ a month" to your average person. Most of the people I know earn arround 2000 (low end) to 4000 $ a month... And I earn before tax about 10000$ (I don#t even want to mention what's after tax).

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
    1. Re:What are you smoking ? Not worth it ??? by pwagland · · Score: 1

      Add to that, that in most places small winnings such as these are tax free... that 12-15K per month becomes equivalent to 18-30K a month, depending on your tax regime. There aren't many who would turn that down... However, there is also a non-trivial chance that it wouldn't last for that long, especially not once the trick was noticed. As well, most scratchie based schemes are only around for six months or so. And you might well get a lawsuit about committing fraud if you were ever caught, which, even if you eventually win, would also add to your operating costs.

    2. Re:What are you smoking ? Not worth it ??? by gknoy · · Score: 1

      Try telling the same sentence "not worth playing for 600$ a month" to your average person

      The point is, he would have to spend a lot of time doing it in order to reap those rewards. I guess if one were to spend one day a month doing it... but even then it's still work. It's not as simple as "buy in bulk, run through machine, etc". I guess he could hit one differnet store in his area every day and clean them out...

  62. I agree... by KingAlanI · · Score: 1

    People who are bad at math play the lottery badly, people who are good at math avoid the lottery, and people who are really good at math figure out how to play the lottery intelligently. :)

    --
    I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
  63. go one by one by KingAlanI · · Score: 1

    Trying to figure out where to stop or keep going in the first place (when there's a lower or higher expected value for the next ticket) is a problem, and so is a lack of fine-grained control over when to stop or keep going. Having to buy the tickets off the stack in sequence helps lead to the latter problem. However, buying my tickets one-by-one helps. (I bring a large stack of $1s with me to the Lotto retailer to help enable this logistically.)

    I too have figured that the scratchoffs aren't truly random independent trials because they have to be machine-printed en masse, and for regulation and/or business reasons, it may make sense to ensure that the prizes aren't clumped.

    The whole idea is to find ways to increase your odds; some games and play options may give you better odds to begin with in addition to whatever advantage gained through your stratagem. Check your local listings. :)

    --
    I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
  64. probably should have kept it to himself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A typical assignment for Srivastava goes like this: A mining company has multiple samples from a potential gold mine. Each sample gives a different estimate of the amount of mineral underground. "My job is to make sense of those results," he says. "The numbers might seem random, as if the gold has just been scattered, but they're actually not random at all. There are fundamental geologic forces that created those numbers. If I know the forces, I can decipher the samples. I can figure out how much gold is underground."

    Given that his day job could easily be replaced with a 3-D plotting program.
    Also wouldn't you be putting a geologist in his position rather than a statistician?

  65. too many brains on dialtone by epine · · Score: 1

    Charged with what exactly?

    OK, so one brain hasn't punched out.

    At a casino, you get busted for counting cards because it's essentially a private facility and they are free to enforce house rules.

    The retailers are bound by retail agreements. Sifting before you sell would get you into serious hot water.

    In some games of chance, large winnings are taxable, so you can get into big hot water by failing to report your earnings.

    In this scenario, had he taken that path: he's not entering the premises of a lottery corporation, he's not conspiring with retailers to break the retail process, and (from what others have said) the winnings from these tickets in Ontario are not taxable.

    Changed with what exactly? Charged with bogus charges that don't stick, most likely, just to uphold the common sentiment that winning at games for losers is unethical.

    Thankfully, I haven't been charged when making winning picks on the stock exchange. It's not actually illegal to use a formula which gives you an edge, only if the information required is insider information.

    Speaking of brains on dialtone, I have it on good authority from Michael E. Mann that geological statisticians from Ontario don't know their sigma from a shaft in the dirt.

    Fortunately, no lotto ticket designers were terminated with cause, and no peer reviewed studies (where peer is defined as people as bad at stats as you are) were formally repealed as a result of these crackpots.

  66. Making it usefull.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now all we need is an iPhone app that uses the camera to find winning tickets...

  67. 1 person could make $600 a day, but a group? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Should have put together a team, ala the earlier MIT group with the Black Jack system.

  68. Re:You don't have to be non-random for fixed winne by Znork · · Score: 1

    As long as you're sure the visible data is fully random you can tailor the invisible data as much as you want and generate deterministic winners or losers anyway. Any algorithm where the visible data cannot, in some cases, be turned into a 'winner' or 'loser' by tailoring the desired hidden content gives away the same knowledge to any observer and is automatically flawed.

  69. Low tech solution by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

    Dispense the cards in a way where you cannot cherry pick.

  70. I think that it's safe to say.... by mark-t · · Score: 1
    ... by the time any lottery hopefuls read about this, the corporations that print the lottery tickets will have already changed how they are doing things.

    Oh, and just a heads up for everybody... turn off javascript in your browser before going to the website with the article. I don't know what it's doing, but it hangs Chrome something terrible.

  71. When was the last time you was an employee? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's one of the reasons some contests have a "If you're an employee of..." clauses in the terms.

  72. Re:You don't have to be non-random for fixed winne by julesh · · Score: 1

    So the really easy solution is to not have these types of tickets, and only sell "blind" lottery tickets - where it's all scratchable area.

    You're assuming that (1) the lottery organisers care -- they don't, they're spending the same on prizes whichever way the prizes are won -- and (2) that the partial information tickets don't sell significantly better than blind ones (I don't know whether this is the case or not, but I suspect they actually do). So that may be an easy solution but as it solves a problem that they don't care about, probably at a significant expense, it isn't going to happen. They'll carry on churning out these tickets, and gullible schmucks will keep buying them randomly, while people who know will watch for ones that are guaranteed wins.

  73. Re:You don't have to be non-random for fixed winne by yo303 · · Score: 1

    The problem is that he reverse engineered their deterministic process for generating winners and losers and then was able to pick out the winning cards based on the partial information they revealed.

    The problem is that the lottery people didn't hire the right statistician.

  74. AWESOME by 0m3gaMan · · Score: 1

    This dude out-thunk a bunch of municipal employees.

  75. Re:You don't have to be non-random for fixed winne by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

    Ah, so you think the problem is not with the particular numbers on the tickets, but with the order of printing of those tickets. But in the article that's not the case. He knows whether a ticket is a winner or loser by looking at the ticket, not by the sequence of the tickets.

  76. Reminds me of a Junior High experience by Ecuador · · Score: 2

    Back in (Greek) Junior High we went for a one-day school trip to an island (Poros IIRC). The day plan consistend of letting a few dozens of 14-15 year-olds roam around the town unattended. Obviously, one of my group's first stops was at an Arcade, to spend some coins on things like Cadillacs and Dinosaurs or NBA Jam. Another group of friends called us to a back room to check something out. There was an electronic (electromechanic?) gambling machine that had a roullette (but with fewer segments than the classic) and you could bet on outcomes. I hadn't seen such a machine since my usual Arcades in the city were just, well, Arcades, so I was intrigued and stood by to watch some of my friends play. Born a geek, even before any formal statistics training, I started analyzing the game and the betting possibilities and I soon realized that - woops - the designers allowed for multiple bets per cycle, but had not calculated the combined odds properly, so there was a combination of bets that would give the player an advantage. So I told my friends to stop betting randomly and I showed them a winning strategy that would give them on average something like a quarter (the equivalent 20 or 50 drachma coin that arcades accepted back then) for every 4 or so (don't remember specifics) plays. After explaining, I oversaw a few rounds and then left. Yes, money was useful for me as well, but I had calculated the expected payout and judged that I had stayed enough at the arcade, so spending the rest of the day outside (and finding a good restaurant) was worth more for me than that amount.
    Sure enough, after several hours, we all met back at the boat. The 3-4 kids that had stayed at the arcade had each made around 2-3k drachma (I guess something like $20 of early 90's USD), which was not insubstantial for us back then (since I remember I felt about 20% regret for not staying myself, given the fact that I had not found such a great restaurant - hehe).
    Anyway, the moral of the story is that gambling games are not usually designed by PhD's, although I would have expected at least big lotteries like those in TFA to be designed by groups of excellent statisticians. And also that winning a gambling game is not always worth your time.

    --
    Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
  77. cat has got my tongue by nwmann · · Score: 0

    so the lotteries predetermined 'random number generator' for the actual scratched off space, and a closer to random number generator for the numbers on the outside? sounds like a simple fix yes?

  78. Re:You don't have to be non-random for fixed winne by ModelX · · Score: 1

    Having actual experience with how lottery works behind the scenes I'd say this particular place was not run by people who knew what they were doing. You can't be so stupid to print something that is correlated to the outcome. This is something that would need statistical evaluation beforehand. Anyways, the way around it is to print independent serial numbers from a totally different random sequence or some strong crypto hash based on this other independent sequence. You can use these independent codes if your sales places are online so that a server can check ticket outcomes stored in a database. One would still want to test for proper stats before the series gets printed.

  79. rtfa by doug141 · · Score: 1

    "Lots of people buy lottery tickets in bulk to give away as prizes for contests," he says. He asked several Toronto retailers if they would object to him buying tickets and then exchanging the unused, unscratched tickets. "Everybody said that would be totally fine. Nobody was even a tiny bit suspicious," he says. "Why not? Because they all assumed the games are unbreakable.

  80. Your Step 2 wouldn't work. by apparently · · Score: 1

    Step 2) Take all the scratched tickets that people throw away onsite, and scan them for hints as to how to pick winners.

    By virtue of having already been scratched, the information needed to find the pattern of winners has been removed. What you would need to do is buy a few tickets, photograph the unscratched surface, scratch the tickets, and then go back to the reference photos of the known winners and try to find a pattern.

    Now if you'll excuse me, I have an erection to attend to.

  81. Re:You don't have to be non-random for fixed winne by plover · · Score: 1

    Just completely wild-assed guessing here, but I'm wondering if they developed just one algorithm to "fill in the blanks with interesting but guaranteed non-winning numbers". The algorithm looks at the starting condition of the board, selects random numbers that do not correlate with any values already on the board to ensure they don't create extra winners, then fills in the blank spots. TFA's statistician guessed that this algorithm seeds the cards with several two-in-a-row kinds of things in order to make it more exciting. So I'm suspecting that because they want all cards to be equally intriguing to the buyers, they start with the winning sequence of numbers, then run that same algorithm to fill in the rest of the digits. Very non-random, and he spotted it.

    I think their problem is in their whole approach to preventing "extra" winners. They appear to be taking the safest route to guarantee that only known winning cards are produced by completely avoiding the winning numbers in the random fill-in data. If they instead reused all numbers (including winners) to fill in the empty spaces, and added a final one-winner-only check (discarding any game card with winners other than the intentional winners) they might be able to avoid this problem. But again, that's a "might". Study would be needed before I'd run down there and say "here's a statistically random algorithm to generate interesting game cards."

    Actually, it being a lottery, a whole pile of cash would be needed before I'd run down there and say anything at all! :-)

    --
    John
  82. That's not correct. by apparently · · Score: 1

    Because it's a complex game. It's sort of like playing 10 bingo cards at the same time. You need a way to mark what spots on each card have been drawn. To do that, you scratch off the spaces to mark them. If you have to scratch off the entire game board, then you have no way to mark the spaces on your cards (since lottery tickets are designed so that you don't need anything but your scratching device to play).

    It's nothing of the sort; it's not an actual tic-tac-toe game in which you mark spaces to win. From the article:

    On the right were eight tic-tac-toe boards, dense with different numbers. On the left was a box headlined "Your Numbers," covered with a scratchable latex coating. The goal was to scrape off the latex and compare the numbers under it to the digits on the boards. If three of "Your Numbers" appeared on a board in a straight line, you'd won.

    The tic-tac-toe part of the board is already revealed, it's the "Your numbers" part that is scratched, no marking of boxes was involved. And the purpose?

    One important strategy involves the use of what lottery designers call extended play. Although extended-play games — sometimes referred to as baited hooks — tend to look like miniature spreadsheets, they've proven extremely popular with consumers. Instead of just scratching off the latex and immediately discovering a loser, players have to spend time matching up the revealed numbers with the boards. Ticket designers fill the cards with near-misses (two-in-a-row matchups instead of the necessary three) and players spend tantalizing seconds looking for their win.

    The design of the game is pure busy work meant to "extend" the time it took a person to figure out if they won, thus giving them the impression that the game is more involved than a regular scratch ticket. A secondary consequence of this "hunt for all of your numbers in a grid of 72 squares" game is that it makes it a lot easier for players to accidentally overlook a win, thus reducing the number of payouts made by the State Lotto commission

  83. possible fix? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Couldn't the company just separeate the two printing processes. Why even let the same computer print the two? If you first print the result, then add the latex, then print the visible numbers whitout them having anything to do with the original print. You could still keep track of the number of winning tickets, and be safe from this kind of trick.

  84. Re:You don't have to be non-random for fixed winne by plover · · Score: 1

    Sorry for the misunderstanding, I just reread your previous post, clarified it in my mind, and realized I've just parroted exactly what you suggested in the first place. Damn, where is that "remove stupid post" button when I need it? :-)

    --
    John
  85. Re:You don't have to be non-random for fixed winne by secretcurse · · Score: 1

    No, he figured out that the singletons on the eight tic-tac-toe boards had a high frequency of showing up in the list of numbers scratched off. He would buy a ticket if the singletons showed up in a winning combination on the tic-tac-toe boards. The system had nothing to do with the frequency of the singletons and everything to do with the placement of the singletons.

    --
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