Slashdot Mirror
US Reneges On SWIFT Agreement
Windrip writes "It seems the US is not living up to its end of the bargain when it comes to the SWIFT data agreement. When the agreement was signed last year, every EU citizen was guaranteed the right to know if the American authorities had retrieved their banking information, and which authorities had requested the information. Now one European Parliamentarian, Alexander Alvaro says that, once again, the Americans are not honoring their treaties."
...and I don't agree with the stance my government is taking. Just in case all the non-US slashdotters go on about how X, Y, and Z America is. It's not all of us, scouts honor =)
Carl Sagan quotes get you an automatic +5 on all posts.
And what are they going to do about it, send a strongly worded letter?
Dump a few 100 billion in bonds if you want to kick the US in the jimmy.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
I'm not sure where to find a list of treaties that the United States has failed to honor (did a quick search and nothing obvious popped up), but it seems to me that as time goes on the Americans are losing more and more credibility on the world stage. The start of the real decline seemed to happen with the latest invasion of Iraq and really accelerated through the term of G.W. Bush. This is my perspective as a non-American living outside of the United States, but do the majority of people inside the U.S. realize how much they've lost on the world stage over the past decade?
In a way the decline reminds me of the local police - 30 or 40 years ago the local police were your friend - someone you could go to and talk to and who would be willing to help you out. These days it seems like you're best off staying as far away from the police as possible.
Does anyone else see things in a similar way?
TFA talks about Alvaro's efforts to obtain information about U.S. access to his account data from the German Federal Commissioner for Data Protection and Freedom of Information (BFDI). From the article BDFI seems to be some Kafkaesque bureaucracy. He submitted the original request in October. After repeated requests for more and different personal information, the BDFI finally forwarded the request to the U.S. authorities at the beginning of this month. The hang up here does not seem to be on the American side.
The European Parliament is so gullible, a few handwaving promises about the US handling the data according to EU rules and the EU developing its own storage system with the purpose of exporting data in a more controlled manner "within five years", and they drop all previous opposition...
And what rights were Americans guaranteed, I'd like to know?
We have altered the deal. Pray we do not alter it further.
-- Obama
Its rather interesting to read this story about US PATRIOT act and how it was extened last year. Government can now do whatever it wants here, really.
Seems our government uses the above response quite often when questioned by the international community.
I don't understand why the BFDI needs to ask the US for this data. If Europol are vetting the US requests, shouldn't they be keeping track?
As an American citizen who's used SWIFT transfers, I'm curious whether I have the right to know if American (or any other) authorities have retrieved their banking information. Is that something that could be gotten through a Freedom of Information Act request?
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
According to this own article this is the EU's obligation to make this information available, not the US authorities. I also cannot seem to verify any part of this disclosure requirement unless its related to some other EU compliance law related to subpoenas.
Stop me if I make any mistakes here...
When another country does something that the USA doesn't like, the USA gets all up in arms about it and either invades the nation with the intent of "setting them free", or else they impose quite intense political and/or economical pressure on the nation to comply with their expectations.
When the USA does something that another country doesn't like and the other country dares to point this out, the USA basically goes "Meh." Because they figure that there's squat all that anybody else can do about it.
Just wanting to be sure I know where things stand.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Yes, but that's no reason to accept the status quo. Here's a quick hyperbole mixed with Godwin's Law: If I shot you in the face, it's fine because it was worse in Nazi Germany - they'd shoot you in the back.
That feeling from when I was a kid that there was anything remotely honorable about my country's conduct.
Bullies rarely keep their promises.
That's what the US has become to the rest of the world; nothing more than bullies.
It's goatse. How come there's no kind of Flag Adult content warning on WordPress like there is for Blogger?
well, it was all Bush's fault at the beginning, so why wouldn't it be at the end?
oh, :) for the impaired.
This is a very badly worded headline, obviously intended to promote anti-US sentiment when the article itself does nothing of the sort.
I'll distil it for those who still can't be bothered to RTFA after I've said it's worth reading:
"Alexander Alvaro has spent some time trying to determine whether or not his bank details have been accessed by contacting the regulator in his own country (Germany). The regulator stalled him for several months by requesting ID in various formats, and hadn't even forwarded the request to US authorities until shortly before the article was written. The regulator confirmed that they don't hold this information themselves."
We have no evidence that the US authorities were approached earlier and that they're responsible for the stalling, we have no evidence to explain how long it takes for such requests to come back (it was only sent earlier this month, for all we know it's sent via snail mail). And to cap it all we have no evidence to suggest that the journalist responsible for this article thought to contact German authorities and ask the reason for the delay. The best we have is:
At the beginning of this month, the BFDI confirmed that Alvaro's request had finally been sent to US authorities [....] The agency criticized that the person requesting information about how personal data has been used must submit additional personal information in order to learn whether the US has made use of their data.
To me this suggests it's possible the journalist approached them and received a non-answer. But it's equally possible that the journalist is paraphrasing a form letter received by Alvaro saying "Dear Sir, we've sent your request to US authorities, apologies for the delay".
...and I agree that our politicians have fucked up by agreeing to the treaty. But then again, European Conservatives have a long tradition of kissing US ass, so this was hardly surprising. One of the reasons I'm politically drifting towards the left in my middle years, which is usually an age where people become more conservative.
The second fuckup (according to the article on Spiegel.de) is that Europol is not doing its job of filtering the requests from the US. That filtering should prevent thet US authorities from pulling excessive amounts of data, but it seems not to happen.
But finally, I also think the USA are not really a friend of Germany if they try to push through such invasive treaties. It is time for Europe to distance itself from the USA.
C - the footgun of programming languages
After another four weeks, The BFDI told Alvaro's office in a telephone call that the request had still not been forwarded to American authorities. There was, still no agreement between the US authorities and the BFDI. The American authorities would require still more data from the applicant. Nevertheless, Alvaro consented to have the data in question forwarded to the American authorities.
While indeed the article is not clear, it seems to me that the US authorities are not providing a mechanism for BFDI (or presumably any other European agency) to request the information that they HAVE to provide according to the agreement. The BFDI essentially says, we can send this info, but the Americans don't really agree it is adequate and don't really specify WHAT is adequate. It does not look like the BFDI was deliberating with itself on what to send, "There was, still no agreement between the US authorities and the BFDI", so the BFDI was communicating with the US authorities to try and get the requirements to make the request. Agreed though, it could be clearer in the article.
...and GWB got fraudulently voted in twice...
fixed that for you
After the shocking news that the US government does not honoring a treaty (actually they do half-honor it, they take what the other side offers, but they do not live up to their own side of it), I've got even more shocking news, the sun raises usually somewhere in the east, and sets in the west, I'm almost sure.
And yes, some of the nicest people that I know are Americans. And the US government does not just shit on their international partners, they have also this tendency to shit on their own population. Many slogans about the US being a free, with guaranteed civil rights, law abiding democracy, are nowadays just that, slogans. About as much related to reality as an advertisement for breakfast cereals suggesting them to be healthy and helping you to keep your weight, ...
Gag orders, punishments without judicial review (e.g. domains seizures, keeping a "terrorist" [defined as anyone without power that the local DHS flunky dislikes enough] locked up for extended periods), no rule of law (noticed how entertainment companies don't pay 6 figures per infringed song when they do it? Notice how the government tends to ignore the parts of the constitution and laws it dislikes? (E.g. noticed how the commerce clause is abused to allow the federal government to extend their ability to govern practically anything?)
Well, the problem is that the US meddles in our politics.
The article mentioned is an example. Privacy requirements (which go by the fine name of data protection directive[EU]/law[countries] btw), are in most European countries a constitutional (sometimes even explicit I think, most often interpreted by supreme courts) civil right. The EU data protection directive reflects this importance.
The US agreed basically to provide for the European citizens civil right "protection of personal data". Now one of our MEP (Member European Parliament). What he found out:
-) the German authorities have not prepared for this case.
-) The US has browbeat the EU to rubberstamp all data requests without even inquiring what they are for? (Can anyone say "economic espionage"?)
-) The US seems to have forgotten to provide "business processes" (as in a "printed form" or a "website" where inquiries might have been sent.)
So if we want to distribute minus points, two for the US (by not following procedures for data inquiries [these miss the explanation for what the data will be used], and by not even providing a way to fulfill it's obligations [which is kind of not surprising, as the US has a completely different point of view on data keeping, basically citizens have practically no rights, the government can do what it want]), and 2 minus points to European/member state authorities (for letting inquiries go forward that do not explain why they are needed, and for not preparing for citizen inquiries).
I know this sounds strange to the Americans, but the EU has privacy regulations that make processing of data that can be linked to a specific person very HIPAA-ish.
(e.g. anyone that processes such data in the private sector needs to offer a service where a person can ask for a report what is stored on them (that's what the MEP in the article basically tried to do), and offer deletion (if there is no legal justification to keeping it)/modification (if the data is wrong). Government entities are basically only allowed to do data processing if they are authorized to do so by law.)
Remember in 2006 when Belgium courts found that SWIFT was violating EU privacy laws...and the subsequent move by SWIFT to relocate its US-based datacenter peer to Switzerland? At that point I thought this issue was solved. What am I missing?
Nothing in the article actually points to the US authorities as being the cause of this breach. Everything in the article seems to be European agencies not getting the ball rolling. I don't see any evidence of anything nefarious or dishonest by the US government in this article. Does anyone have any article that indicates any wrong doing at all by the US as the title of the /. post suggests?
AJ Henderson
Now one European Parliamentarian, Alexander Alvaro says that, once again, the Americans are not honoring their treaties.
We are very good at that. Ask the native americans. I mean, seriously, they really thought our leaders would honor a treaty? Oh ya, about that money we owe ya, the checks in the mail.
Be seeing you...
Historical perspective: During World War II, the Financial-Intelligence-Complex came into being, although there were existing elements prior to WWII, it was principally institutionalized during that time.
It's principal creators: David Rockefeller, Averill Harriman, Robert Lovett, Frank Wisner, Sr., the Dulles brothers (Alan Foster Dulles being a Rockefeller in-law), and Richard Bissell.
They originally set it up that Wall Streeters would bounce back and forth between The Street, and the top intel directorates, over the past several decades the American intelligence establishment has been so thoroughly privatized, that is no longer necessary. Also, this complex has it's European counterparts.
Now, National Security has never had anything to do with this control element, it is all about accumulating financial intelligence and population control. Period.
Always beware those misinformation and disinformation specialists (many purposely hired and paid) who misdirect by suggesting the continuing bureaucratic incompetence of this billions-funded agencies, when in reality they are highly compentent in those areas benefitting the klepto-plutocracy which runs America, and the majority of the Earth's countries.
"Political Machines" would be utterly powerless if voters thought for themselves instead of taking the lazy way out and just voting for whomever their leaders/preachers/idols/spouse told them to.
So don't blame the powerful, blame the sheep who listen to them and allow themselves to be bought off with trinkets.
-deane
Except for a few politicians. "[O]nce again, the Americans are not honoring their treaties". Sounds harsh, IS harsh. but it is true.
This treaty just about passed the EU parliament only after people from the US government harassed some MPs in their very own office.
The main pro argument for the new treaty that replaced a completely illegal (under European law) predecessor was the promise of better data protections especially for innocent people (for some strange reasons, the EU cannot deliver records with only the requested data, but only whole datasets that contain these, but also thousands of other records).
Many politically interested people in the EU even consider to file criminal charges against the politicians and bureaucrats involved in this crime against European data privacy laws.
America is a sovereign nation. We shouldn't be entangled in excessive treaties with foreign governments anyway.
When has the USA done anything that was respecting other than itself. USA is selfish, and believes that to stop crime, there is no right to privacy. The worst about it is that they have corrupted the Canadian Prime minister who believes he is God's gift to mankind, ie Canada. Our Conservative government has sold Canada out the you Americans, so I now cannot call you guys names, as it would be a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada