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AT&T Lowers Data Access To Just $500/GB

GMGruman writes "No doubt in a move to demonstrate how having fewer carriers (once it buys T-Mobile) will be good for US cellular customers, AT&T has announced lower data pricing for customers not on contract: On a per-gigabyte basis, GoPhone users will only pay $500 rather than the previous $5,000. Such a deal. The pricing is indeed lower, but even the best option for such users is five times more than regular customers pay. And given that pay-as-you-go pricing is what the poor and people living paycheck to paycheck use, the result is those who can afford the least still pay by far the most."

339 comments

  1. for pete's sake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    there isn't an industry in as sore need of regulation

    most of all, i am quite tired of paying the same mandated data plan price for rural 2g

    1. Re:for pete's sake by kimvette · · Score: 1

      Sure there is: cable (internet, TV, telephone). They've been pulling similar crap for ages.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    2. Re:for pete's sake by lennier1 · · Score: 1

      I'm also using a prepaid card, but on this side of the pond I'm paying 1â/GB. Minor difference.

    3. Re:for pete's sake by tmosley · · Score: 1

      Not really. Boost has unlimited talk text and internet for $50/month. Pay on time for 6 months, and they knock the bill down $5. Keep paying on time, and it will bottom out at $35/month.

      I just don't understand why anyone would use ATT's shitty service when there is one that is so very much better that is readily available.

    4. Re:for pete's sake by lennier1 · · Score: 1

      Seems like /. fucked up the formatting. It's 1EUR/GB and after 20 GB I don't pay any overage but the speed is reduced to GPRS until the end of the month.

    5. Re:for pete's sake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I just don't understand why anyone would use ATT's shitty service when there is one that is so very much better that is readily available.

      Because in many areas, there isn't.

    6. Re:for pete's sake by Dishevel · · Score: 0, Troll

      The problem in reality is that the government got involved in the first place.
      Gave away money for a private company to build infrastructure. Then the corps use the government to create regulations that severely limit the ability
      for new companies to really compete against these government backed Monopoly/Duopolies.
      Then the government uses their bad practices (Made possible by government regulations) to increase the regulation of the industry.

      They have to be very careful though. They have to make sure that the new regulations while looking good actually allow the entrenched government backed
      corporations to behave badly and increase their profits. The government can then use this as an excuse to regulate the evil corporation the next time.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    7. Re:for pete's sake by haystor · · Score: 1

      Because they think they can buy an iPhone for $49, then they complain that they are locked into certain providers.

      --
      t
    8. Re:for pete's sake by thetartanavenger · · Score: 1

      Sure there is: cable (internet, TV, telephone). They've been pulling similar crap for ages.

      Has anyone else noticed that they are all actually the same industry. The cheap and easy transference of data...

      --
      Who need's speling and grammar?
    9. Re:for pete's sake by mellon · · Score: 1

      If you factor out the phone subsidy, that's more than AT&T charges. The problem is that with AT&T there's no option to factor out the subsidy.

    10. Re:for pete's sake by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 1

      I just don't understand why anyone would use ATT's shitty service when there is one that is so very much better that is readily available.

      There is. I use it and like it a lot. We call it T-Mobile. Other than that, no GSM around here. Oh wait....

      --
      Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
    11. Re:for pete's sake by Pseudonym+Authority · · Score: 0

      You could not possibly be any more retarded or delusional.

    12. Re:for pete's sake by halivar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Owning a smart phone with a data plan isn't a human right. Don't want to pay that much for the data plan? Don't. Live without it. Billions do it every day.

      If, on the other hand, you choose, of your own volition, to pay the exorbitant fee for the data plan, you only serve to prove that the pricing was reasonable and correct.

    13. Re:for pete's sake by schnell · · Score: 3, Informative

      The rates you're getting sound very good - much better than typical US prepaid rates. However, the pricing from the submission is a typical Slashdot sensationalist headline (and hackjob Infoworld article) and is not really comparable. The actual pricing from TFA is:

      • $25 for 500MB
      • $15 for 100MB
      • $5 for 10MB

      So it's only $500/GB if you buy it in 10 MB increments ... kind of like how you'll pay about $150 for a bottle of bourbon if you buy it as shots vs. $25 buying the whole bottle at the liquor store.* But pointing that out evidently doesn't generate outrage and pageviews. Again, not nearly as good as 1 Euro per GB, but also not "$500 per GB."

      I know it's a lot to expect Slashdot to actually read things before posting, but I foolishly continue to hold out hope.

      * Happy hour and dive bars excluded. Add 50% if you are in New York City and 100% if you are in a trendy bar in New York City. Just give up if you are in Tokyo.

      --
      "95% of all Slashdot .sig quotes are incorrect or completely fabricated." -Benjamin Franklin
    14. Re:for pete's sake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you think if the government got rid of regulation, any newcomer could easily just dig up all the roads to lay down their own cable and then compete with the big boys?

    15. Re:for pete's sake by E+IS+mC(Square) · · Score: 1

      From TFA:

      >>Of course, there are other plans: One costs $150 per gigabyte if you buy 100MB increments (15 times what regular customers pay), and the other costs "only" $50 per gigabyte if you buy 500MB increments (5 times over the regular customer cost). Such a deal!

      So it's pretty much covered in it.

      And of course, $50 per gigabyte is such an awesome deal, isn't it?? Just to put that in perspective, "pay-as-you-go iPad users pay $10 per gigabyte".

    16. Re:for pete's sake by swalve · · Score: 1

      Not to mention, some of that cost is getting access to the network, not just how much you use it. This is sort of a reverse volume discount: if you don't want to commit to a monthly contract, you don't get the discount.

    17. Re:for pete's sake by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Owning a smart phone with a data plan isn't a human right. Don't want to pay that much for the data plan? Don't. Live without it. Billions do it every day.

      Controlling a piece of a the public airways isn't a corporate right. Don't want to charge reasonable rates for data plans? Don't. Live without that government granted monopoly on public property. All the other corporations do it every day.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    18. Re:for pete's sake by daenris · · Score: 1

      Because Boost can't roam off its (i.e. Sprint's) network. So if you happen to live (or travel to/through) any of the vast regions without Sprint network coverage, you're out of luck and get no signal. Anywhere in this map (http://www.boostmobile.com/coverage/#?map=cdma ) that isn't dark green gets no service on Boost (or Virgin Mobile for that matter). Both companies advertise it as "no roaming charges" but this is simply because they don't offer any roaming at all. You're either on Sprint's network, or your phone doesn't work.

    19. Re:for pete's sake by sousoux · · Score: 1

      There is a very simple solution to this. Split wholesale wireless provision from retail. One law. If you choose to build a network you may not sell it to end users only to resellers.Contract terms for retailers must be equal for the same commitments. Start of real competition. End of problem.

    20. Re:for pete's sake by ferrgle · · Score: 1

      Owning a smart phone with a data plan isn't a human right. Don't want to pay that much for the data plan? Don't. Live without it. Billions do it every day.

      If, on the other hand, you choose, of your own volition, to pay the exorbitant fee for the data plan, you only serve to prove that the pricing was reasonable and correct.

      But the data wants to be free doesn't it?

    21. Re:for pete's sake by Skuld-Chan · · Score: 1

      One thing to remember is that the scarce bandwidth (aka - airwaves) we do have belongs to the public - its the FCC's mandate to regulate this.

    22. Re:for pete's sake by amRadioHed · · Score: 0

      If the government first involved itself by giving corporations money to build infrastructure, doesn't it seem possible that if they did not involve themselves at all then instead of having a thriving, competitive, unregulated cable marketplace maybe we would just not have anything at all?

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    23. Re:for pete's sake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wholesale dedicated bandwidth costs $80 per 320 GB. That same bandwidth is sold by AT&T for $16,000. Something smells rotten.

    24. Re:for pete's sake by RatherBeAnonymous · · Score: 1

      The trouble is, if you own a smart phone, no US carrier (besides T-Mobile) will let you use it without paying for the exorbitant data plan.

      I have a smart phone, but I don't need a data plan. So, I bought a Nexus One upfront and I joined it to my parents' T-Mobile account for 5 bucks per month, to get voice service only. If AT&T is allowed to go through with their buyout, they will charge me more per month for my voice service and make me pay for data. I expect to see my monthly fees quintuple. So, depending on how the numbers look and what is possible, I expect to be either ditching AT&T for a prepaid SIM card, or removing service from my smart phone and start carrying two phones.

    25. Re:for pete's sake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Controlling a piece of a the public airways isn't a corporate right."
      That's why they had to _buy_ T-Mobile instead of it just being given to them

      "Don't want to charge reasonable rates for data plans? Don't."
      They don't. I imagine they are happy with that arrangement

      "Live without that government granted monopoly on public property. All the other corporations do it every day."
      Yes, they _are_ living it.

    26. Re:for pete's sake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because we have never experienced nothing like this before.
      Right?

    27. Re:for pete's sake by sortius_nod · · Score: 4, Informative

      Look at what's happened here in Australia with Telstra. Cities have great service (ADSL2+, Cable, FiOS), anything outside the major centres, well, good luck. You might be able to get dialup. I stress might, as the pair gains systems out there can play havoc with dialup, and Telstra (the guys who own the cables) refuse to upgrade anything outside a CBD of a capital city.

      Having worked for Telstra in the plant assignment/activations area (cable records & line programming) I've seen 100 pair cables with maybe 10 pairs usable on it. Telstra refused to replace them as it's not economically viable for them.

      This is why I'm all for the National Broadband Network that's being developed over here. Government monopoly on wholesale to ensure equal service delivery across all communities.

    28. Re:for pete's sake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But it is a corporate right since they paid the government heavily for it.

    29. Re:for pete's sake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The real problem is that the infrastructure should not have been built and owned by corporations using government subsidies to get it done.
      Either the government builds the infrastructure and maintains it while leasing it out to private entities. Or. A private company can build their own competing network to compete on their own.
      If they do that with no government funds then they are free to run it the way they want. If they are leasing government shit then it should be the same price and terms for everyone.

      The railroads, phone lines, electrical distribution and highspeed internet should all have US government owned infrastructure.
      If someone thinks they can build better in small areas and compete with that then fine. If not that is fine as well.
      Everyone can have access to moderately priced government run Gas, Electricity, Phones, and Internet.
      Some people will have a choice to get something better.

    30. Re:for pete's sake by furball · · Score: 1

      What was the point of AT&T paying the US government licensing fees for those public airways again?

    31. Re:for pete's sake by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      I would add that the wholesale providers must not be allowed to discriminate based on the type of device the end user is using. Only based on the total number of devices and total usage of each type of service (voice, data, sms etc). Ideally they should also provide a way for retail providers who use multiple wholesale providers to easilly change their "preffered" wholesale provider.

      Ideally one would also get rid of the technical compatibility problems in the US phone market (though those may be going away anyway with the move to LTE).

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    32. Re:for pete's sake by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      For now.

      There was a recent story about a law being pushed that puts Cell phone data plans on the same level as voice calls. i.e. roaming is required by law, you have to play nicely with other providers if you want to stay in business since the spectrum is limited. This prevents a provider ... like say ... AT&T from buying out other providers and all the spectrum in a given area effectively cutting off even the potential for someone to start a wireless provider. So ... if the law passes, AT&T won't be able to prevent GSM customers from roaming by charging ridiculous fees for competition to roam on their network.

      Of course, the side problem to that is that we're not all using the same technology. AT&T and T-Mobile are GSM ... so AT&T is GSM, verizon is cdma, sprint is ?. Even with a legal requirement to not rip people off for data roaming, you still won't really be able to do it.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    33. Re:for pete's sake by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      They get the right to use them and pays for the government enforcement and administrative processes to make sure no one else fucks up their usage of those airwaves. But thats not what happens. They don't buy SOME spectrum, they buy ALL the spectrum or buy the other owner of the spectrum out making them the owner (indirectly al la T-Mobile) of all the spectrum in a given area.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    34. Re:for pete's sake by GameboyRMH · · Score: 2

      Well he didn't mention the Illuminati or Reptilians...

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    35. Re:for pete's sake by cypherwise · · Score: 1

      Do you worry the Australian government will use that leverage to control the Internet more than they already do? I remember there being stories about them blocking a lot of websites and wanting to censor various things.

    36. Re:for pete's sake by cypherwise · · Score: 1

      Shit, replied to the wrong comment...abort abort abort!

    37. Re:for pete's sake by yodleboy · · Score: 1

      wait a sec here. You may not know that ATT will not sell you a smartphone without a dataplan. Additionally, they required having the plan to maintain phone service. Not sure if this is still in effect, but it was as of last year.

    38. Re:for pete's sake by cypherwise · · Score: 2

      Do you worry the Australian government will use that leverage to control the Internet more than they already do? I remember there being stories about them blocking a lot of websites and wanting to censor various things. Perhaps, having good access with good crypto with Tor or other routing mechanisms will outweigh any pestering they try to do. Who would run/administer the actual network?

    39. Re:for pete's sake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Boost doesn't have a roaming agreement with Verizon, so you're stuck with Sprint's shitty CDMA coverage (the worst out of the four majors). Their iDEN coverage is even more laughable.

      I just don't understand why anyone would recommend Boost's shitty service for a rural user where there are others that are so very much better and readily available.

    40. Re:for pete's sake by feepness · · Score: 1

      Just because you are tired of paying for something doesn't mean it needs regulation.

    41. Re:for pete's sake by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      $50/GB isn't awesome, but it isn't enough to get my blood boiling either. I'd like to see it similar to verizon's plans, which are around $10/GB for monthly plans.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    42. Re:for pete's sake by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      What was the point of AT&T paying the US government licensing fees for those public airways again?

      Contractually it may be the case, but morally it isn't.

      Just because the telecoms subverted the US government and were able to get all of the responsibilities that come with the stewardship of public spectrum waived in exchange for a simple payment doesn't make it right. It just means that the people we hired to handle the negotiations failed due to a conflict of interest. A conflict encouraged by the telecoms via the "revolving door" policy and quid pro quo in FCC appointments.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    43. Re:for pete's sake by Mousit · · Score: 1

      I would actually like to live without it. I'm one of those rare, freakish people (at least, that seems to be how I'm regarded based on how the plans seem to work..) who would actually like to have a smartphone for local use (to use basically as a PDA as well as a normal phone) but don't need, want, nor care about always-on data access. What data I might use I can already achieve with available wifi networks (like at home), which 99.9% of the smartphones on the market now can utilize.

      The problem? I CAN'T choose of my own volition not to pay the exorbitant fee. The big boys (and many of the smaller carriers too) require a data plan if you have a smartphone. AT&T and Verizon will flat out force one on you if you don't sign up for one yourself, and will just begin charging you (how this is legal is beyond me). This applies to both post- and pre-pay customers alike. In fact AT&T will just outright block some smartphones from being on pre-pay at all, period. They require them as post-pay only, with the high-cost data plan attached.

      Some of us might actually like to live without a data plan; we just aren't allowed to have what we desire. Do I consider a smartphone a human right? No, of course not. However, I do think it ought to be MY choice to own one without using cellular data on it, if I want to use it that way. Unfortunately that is not a choice readily on offer in this closed "market".

    44. Re:for pete's sake by Mousit · · Score: 1

      wait a sec here. You may not know that ATT will not sell you a smartphone without a dataplan. Additionally, they required having the plan to maintain phone service. Not sure if this is still in effect, but it was as of last year.

      It is not only still in effect, it applies to bring-your-own phones as well, not just the ones they sell you. You can buy your own unlocked smartphone and if they detect it as a smartphone (they do this by IMEI database last I heard, so not all smartphones will get detected) on their network, they will force a data plan on you. They will literally just add the "service" to your account and begin billing you.

      Pre-pay customers will be forced into monthly data packages too, or in some cases certain smartphones are blocked from pre-pay entirely and can only be used post-pay.

    45. Re:for pete's sake by afidel · · Score: 2

      How the F is $25/500MB a good deal when I get unlimited text, data, and 300 minutes of voice from Virgin for that amount? That's the kind of seriously bad pricing that kept me from ever even considering a smartphone for my wife (previously a T-Mobile prepaid customer). The amazing thing about the Virgin pricing is that additional minutes are only $.10/minute so even if she does go over one month it's not like I'm getting raped unlike some of AT&T's plans where overage minutes are $.50/month.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    46. Re:for pete's sake by Doctor_Jest · · Score: 2

      That'd never work... :) these government sanctioned and sponsored monopolies (cable/phone) can't be bothered with competition. They'd rather have their cake and eat it too.

      But what you say is true. Power lines and phone lines (and cable lines) were all laid with huge subsidies and eminent domain actions by the government. In effect, WE own most of the infrastructure (as taxpayers), and as such, should not be allowing a corporation that got a handout to build the infrastructure in the first place free reign to shove the telephone pole up our asses.

      --
      It's the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
    47. Re:for pete's sake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, AT&T paid the FCC a big hunk of money to have the exclusive right to use it...

    48. Re:for pete's sake by dragonturtle69 · · Score: 1

      Owning a smart phone with a data plan isn't a human right. Don't want to pay that much for the data plan? Don't. Live without it. Billions do it every day.

      I agree that a owning a smartphone with a cellular data-plan is not a right. We all could buy used smartphones and go wireless only. But fair-play must be enforced.

      Is not the cost per Mb is the same for the Telco, whether on contract, month-to-month after contract, or prepaid? Charging prepaid plans a higher rate than contract or month-to-month is an unfair business practice.

      --
      "What luck for the rulers that men do not think." - Adolph Hitler
    49. Re:for pete's sake by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 1

      It should be one more thing the government takes care of. The national debt is only 14 trillion now, so clearly it has room to grow. When it gets to a quadrillion, then we're talking real money.

    50. Re:for pete's sake by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Is not the cost per Mb is the same for the Telco, whether on contract, month-to-month after contract, or prepaid? Charging prepaid plans a higher rate than contract or month-to-month is an unfair business practice.

      Its a case of "one in hand is worth two in the bush" - a contract practically guarantees a revenue stream, while pay-as-you-go does not. So contractual minutes are essentially cheaper, but nothing like 10x cheaper, maybe 25% cheaper and that's being generous.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    51. Re:for pete's sake by RareButSeriousSideEf · · Score: 1

      Government monopoly on wholesale to ensure equal service delivery across all communities.

      I would suggest government offering of privately-managed wholesale wiring towers and tunnels... no monopoly, and no government owned/controlled wires (at least not if you want any chance at privacy, open content, and long term economic efficiency). These would run to the community; communities and those that serve them would be at their discretion to close the gap to the neighborhoods and dwellings (perhaps on the condition that they facilitate no barriers to any provider who wishes to lease wiring space in those local segments).

      The offering could have three rates per unit of capacity rented: a base rate when you provide service equally across your entire serving area, a discount for bringing service to unserved and under-served areas, and a surcharge for the percentage of the population you do not offer service to within the larger of a) the region bounded by the outermost points of your service area, or b) the entirety of all counties in which you offer any service.

      By collectivizing the biggest barrier to entry -- the initial infrastructure buildout -- and not collectivizing the ownership of the lines, you could probably get the best mix of benefits that the two sectors could offer. The goal is to catalyze new competition in as many markets as possible; do that, and the bandwidth and price problems will get solved better than by any strategy involving monopolies or a select few 'licensed' providers (with ever-increasing bureaucratic and regulatory hurdles in front of new would-be entrants).

    52. Re:for pete's sake by twebb72 · · Score: 1

      Is not the cost per Mb is the same for the Telco, whether on contract, month-to-month after contract, or prepaid? Charging prepaid plans a higher rate than contract or month-to-month is an unfair business practice.

      Contracts are a liquid asset to any company. Contracts can be transferred or sold. They are an very large and accurate indicator of any company's value.

      You provide very little to a company on a pay-as-you-go plan, hence the added cost. It's a very prudent business practice.

    53. Re:for pete's sake by sousoux · · Score: 1

      I would add that the wholesale providers must not be allowed to discriminate based on the type of device the end user is using. Only based on the total number of devices and total usage of each type of service (voice, data, sms etc). Ideally they should also provide a way for retail providers who use multiple wholesale providers to easilly change their "preffered" wholesale provider.

      Ideally one would also get rid of the technical compatibility problems in the US phone market (though those may be going away anyway with the move to LTE).

      I'm not sure this is necessary. The wholesaler's only interest is to maximize the return on their network investment. Fill the pipe with the most valuable traffic. I don't really mind how they do that. I absolutely agree that retailers can use multiple wholesalers and that wholesalers should be barred from creating contract terms that tie a retailer to them.

      The technical compatibility problems will probably continue until tunable, software definable radios become a reality for handsets. That still seems to be a few years away.

    54. Re:for pete's sake by thsths · · Score: 1

      > Owning a smart phone with a data plan isn't a human right.

      Not yet, but certainly in Europe universal service is currently being redefined as containing fast and affordable internet access.

    55. Re:for pete's sake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is silly, you can get unlimited data from virgin mobile for $25 dollars a month. You do not have to go with the big guys.

    56. Re:for pete's sake by Compaqt · · Score: 1

      I can't believe governments are stupid enough to "sell" spectrum. Lease it instead, and keep leaseholders on a leash.

      --
      I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
    57. Re:for pete's sake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The price of bourbon by the shot requires additional service which in most cases involves a personal delivery of product in a new container by a hopefully nice looking young lady in a location which requires HVAC, municipal taxes/permits, repairs and other expenses. Which has a little more cost than purchasing the bottle.

      The cost of the bandwidth has no additional direct costs compared to prepaid bandwidth.

      Sorry to burst your bubble....

    58. Re:for pete's sake by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Do you worry the Australian government will use that leverage to control the Internet

      No, NBNco is a corportised entity with it's own board and it's own execs under it's own mandate.

      more than they already do?

      I dont care if they control it 100 times more then they already do. 100 x 0 is still 0.

      I remember there being stories about them blocking a lot of websites and wanting to censor various things.

      Wanting != getting, certain individuals wanted filtering (the god bothering brigade) but the government as a whole shot that idea down (whoa, democracy at work, MP's vote against bad idea).

      It's dead Jim. Stop bringing it up.

      Perhaps, having good access with good crypto with Tor or other routing mechanisms will outweigh any pestering they try to do.

      Whilst I love good crypto, not needed here, thanks (see above).

      Who would run/administer the actual network?

      Referring to the TCP model (this is /. you should know this better then your own mothers). L1 and L2 are maintained by NBNco as a wholesale provider. L3 is maintained by various RSP's or Retail Service Providers. The RSP's are private entities, in fact they will be the same ISP's that service Australia today reselling ADSL services to the general public. The Australian Government owns none of these.

      NBNco builds the fibre, makes it available to any RSP who'll pay the asked price. RSP's (private entities) then sell services to me. Simple, we get the benefit of a single wholesaler's bulk savings but without the wholesaler having a stake in the retail market.

      Why this is important. Well at the moment, almost every bit of copper in the ground is owned by one company. Telstra so I need to pay Telstra to get ADSL no matter who I choose to subscribe to. Now Telstra also have an interest in selling me ADSL at the retail level, which means having control over the wholesale gives them an uncompetitive advantage, one that they are not afraid to use if it weren't for the ACCC (Australian Competition and Consumer Commission).

      So we are already at the mercy of an abusive monopoly, The NBN breaks that by making it a public (therefore accountable to the public) monopoly.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    59. Re:for pete's sake by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Look at what's happened here in Australia with Telstra. Cities have great service (ADSL2+, Cable, FiOS),

      Which Australia are you talking about?

      I live literally 10 minutes outside the Perth CBD. I can only get ADSL 2 provided I'm not on a RIM (Pair Gain system) and not more 4 KM from the exchange because that's when the copper gets bad enough that it can no longer carry a DSL signal.

      There is no cable here, no fibre either. I consider myself lucky that I've got an Optus DSLAM in my local exchange so I can get service from Internode without any hassle.

      This is why I'm all for the National Broadband Network that's being developed over here.

      I can agree 100% here.

      Roll on NBN.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    60. Re:for pete's sake by daenris · · Score: 1

      Actually it requires cell phone companies to offer roaming contracts to other cell phone companies. It does not require a cell phone company to offer roaming to customers. Given that Sprint itself already offers roaming on contract plans, I'm not sure that this law will do much to push them into offering roaming on their prepaid/pay-as-you-go plans. And Sprint is cdma (or iden for their walkie-talkie phones on the nextel network).

    61. Re:for pete's sake by JoeSchmoe007 · · Score: 1

      Take a look at http://www.pagepluscellular.com/ - they are prepaid Verizon reseller that I've been using for years. They allow BYOD; you can use most of the Verizon phones (except BB, IPhone and Verizon prepaid phones) - I use Droid Incredible. I am on their "Pay-Per-Minute" plans because it fits me the best - my usage is quite small. There is a forum about PagePlus here: http://www.howardforums.com/forumdisplay.php/364-Page-Plus-Cellular

    62. Re:for pete's sake by tmosley · · Score: 1

      Uhh, because A, it works, and I use in in a semi-rural area, and B, it is MUCH less expensive. What part of unlimited everything for $35-50 didn't you understand?

  2. And downloading "data" to smartphone... by John+Hasler · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...is, of course, a necessity of life (in addition to cable television).

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    1. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by hedwards · · Score: 4, Insightful

      With proper regulation it could be a more efficient use of money than having a landline and internet. The problem is that there's no competition at all in the American telecommunication industry, and I'm really curious as to what exactly they're referring to when they claim it's competitive.

    2. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by Brett+Buck · · Score: 0

      If people are poor, why in God's name to they need a bizarrely useless fashion accessory like a smartphone.

    3. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by tripleevenfall · · Score: 1

      Because I NEED it.

    4. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes. Why would the poor need to communicate or have access to the sum of human knowledge.

    5. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      Being poor doesn't negate the ability to have post-paid service. Having bad credit does. If you've demonstrated that you don't pay your bills why would they want to extend you the option of paying for your service after you use it?

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    6. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by xMrFishx · · Score: 1

      Maybe, there are people who have no computer, no broadband, no landline and no TV but Do have mobiles and do know how to use the internet. It's possible that this item to them can do everything and more, be it a news paper in the pocket, a way of finding jobs, student study device etc. If you take away all the things "people have" prior to smart phones, you might find smartphones can fill an everything roll on their own to people who aren't power users. You'd be surprised at the need for information and knowledge the current 20s generation has with the internet. Oh and it's also a phone. Handy.

    7. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

      Because even the shitty Tracphones are starting to have "smart" features now? Or that by the time you figure in all the fees the cell is usually the cheapest way to go to get a phone? Or that the cable and teleco without competition have taken assraping to new heights so that is often the ONLY way short of getting in line at a library that a poor person can have email?

      Take your pick, I know in my area the price for VoIP with Internet with the cable company is $103 with a 2 year contract with a shittastic 36Gb cap, the DSL option is $108 with a top speed of 756k and a 26Gb cap (not that you'd ever hit it on their shitpile o garbage) again with a 2 year contract, or they can get a smartphone from Fred's for $50 and buy minutes in $20 increments when they have it.

      Now which do YOU think the average poor person is more likely to have? $100+ or $50 or less (as they often have sales, I have seen the semi smartphones going for as low as $20 on sale) with no monthly fees or penalties if they have a bad month and can't afford to pay? I have to agree with another poster we need regs NOW for both the teleco and cableco industry, as the reason they can get away with this leeching is the simple fact they know they have a monopoly. WTF? Where is the Anti trust?

      I swear we need another Teddy "Trust Buster" Roosevelt right now, and it is one of the issues that could finally get us a third party pres (along with "Be Switzerland" as we are tired of spending billions propping up the third world) because this monopoly bullshit needs to DIAF.

      Speeds in my area haven't changed in ages, even though I'm practically across the street from one of the largest private colleges in the state, my mom has been waiting 32 YEARS now for the cable company to run the whole BLOCK AND A HALF yet neither the teleco nor the cableco will service her, hell is it any wonder the poor are switching to smartphones? In the rural areas or even two blocks out of town its the only damned non dialup Internet you can get!!!

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    8. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Being poor doesn't negate the ability to have post-paid service. Having bad credit does."

      Perhaps this is the case where you live, but in the US it is far from true.

      All that's required is a deposit of reasonable size, and most anyone will
      be able to have a contract for cellular service. The provider might not allow
      an expensive phone "for free", but you certainly can get a contract and a cheap phone.
      The provider can cut service remotely at any time, so the risk to the provider is minimal.

    9. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you can bookmark your post, then come back and answer that question yourself... after you've lost your job or got wiped out by a lengthy hospital stay or been bested in a lawsuit, and are thereafter unable to continue making your monthly payments on the long-term contracts that are often required if you'd like to pay for service after the fact?

      "Bad credit" does not always mean "irresponsible".

      (BTW, in case you've never noticed... Being poor makes it a just bit more challenging to establish credit than being well-off does.)

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    10. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      Excuse me, but I didn't say it made you "irresponsible". All I said was that a company has valid reasons not to want to extend you post-pay service after you have demonstrated a pattern of not paying your bills on time. It's not their job to ask why you failed to pay them on time or their problem that you didn't. I went through bankruptcy a few years ago -- you don't see me bellyaching about Citi not wanting to do business with me because of this fact.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    11. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by amiga3D · · Score: 2

      God knows if the poor actually had access to such things they might not stay poor. (shudder)

    12. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm tired of people of ignorant assumptions that poor people are stupid and irresponsible (certainly some are, but probably not at a significantly higher than the mostly lucky people who are more well off). Most can do basic math and those people on those 100 dollar a month data plans often are able to dump their landline due to it (which will cost you easily 40 bucks a month by itself once all fees have been tacked on). A lot of them have at least one savvy friend and have their phone rooted so it's their tethered internet as well. Yeah, it's slow and crappy, but they aren't exactly power users.

      Calling a smart phone useless is dumb as hell anyway, when the average phone can scan a UPC code and tell you if there's a cheaper price on something nearby or somewhere on the internet, all while away from home. Does everyone do this? No, but it's possible and the average user is learning to rely on it (as they should, it's an amazing feature).

      As for an the initial phone price, when you consider you no longer have to replace your iPod or whatever the next time it breaks and that most of them even will handle radio and GPS, well then you've saved the necessity to buy those conveniences as well.

    13. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by sorak · · Score: 1

      If people are poor, why in God's name to they need a bizarrely useless fashion accessory like a smartphone.

      So we can only have a healthy marketplace if the products are mandatory and the people are poor?

    14. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by operagost · · Score: 1

      Because they can't get it from broadband on landlines, which we already subsidize for the "poor".

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    15. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by KingMotley · · Score: 0

      Try satellite, they cover just about all of the US. If that fails, you can ALWAYS have a T1 line run, but it's expensive.

      No thanks, but I don't want to have to subsidize your parents' internet because they CHOSE to live out in the middle of nowhere. Or in your case, across the street from the only thing mentionable in the middle of nowhere.

    16. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      For my ex, that "reasonable" deposit was $2000. Yes, she had bad credit...

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    17. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by narcc · · Score: 2

      Are there no prisons? And the union workhouses - are they still in operation?

      From what you said at first I was afraid that something had happened to stop them in their useful course.

    18. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by dnahelicase · · Score: 1

      ...is, of course, a necessity of life (in addition to cable television).

      For some, who are required to have ready access to email 24/7 for their jobs, it does become a necessity of (employment) life.

    19. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      I'd hardly call 'online access' the sum of human knowledge.

      It's just a big hodge-podge collection of part of the data.

    20. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by mr1911 · · Score: 1

      Have you ever observed those who, although not all may be poor all likely have better uses for their funds than smartphones and data plans, using their phones. The vast majority are not accessing sources of knowledge to better themselves.

      The ability to update one's Facebook status at any time during the day does not lead to financial well being.

      --
      This post comes with a double-your-money-back guarantee!
      Any offense taken to this post is at your sole discretion.
    21. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by mini+me · · Score: 1

      I don't know about you, but my smartphone has allowed me to earn more income than I was able to before I owned it. Poor people should not be excluded from being able to make money. In fact, they need it more than anyone else.

    22. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But you don't.

      *I* don't need a fancy smartphone and I can afford one. Really. It will be okay. Trust me.

    23. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by guruevi · · Score: 1

      The ability to keep in contact with certain Mexican friends might however lead to some financial well being (temporarily).

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    24. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      I hope that was for more than one phone.

      On T-mobile unlimited everything (with 2 year contract and phone subsidy) is $100/month.

      That deposit would cover over 80% of the entire 2 year contract, even with the more expensive carriers it's over 50% of the contract, it boggles my mind. Especially since it's a big cash-flow boost.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    25. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yet neither the teleco nor the cableco will service her

      She sounds fat.

    26. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

      Sincerely, from the bottom of my heart...bite me you corporate ass kisser. If you knew anything you'd know you ALREADY PAID to the tune of 200 billion and all you got for your money was a "LOL Goatse LOL!" pic from the ISPs who used the money to give themselves bonuses and trips to Vegas.

      So instead of sucking down the corporate bullshit maybe you better ask yourself why even shitty countries like Romania are currently royally kicking our ass on speed, service AND pricing, while our ISPs can't think of anything better to do with the massive profits they are generating than to institute caps and find ways to get BOTH the websites AND you to pay while they give themselves another bonus, hmmm? Like everything else in our corporatist society the shit is falling down around our ears while the CEOs take their mistresses to the Bahamas and the poor can't even have email. WAKE UP!

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    27. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 1

      Oh, Ebenezer. So good of you to drop by.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    28. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      It was Verizon, we were trying to move her single phone over under her name after the divorce, and that was the price quoted. I told them to shove it and left it under my name.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    29. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by KingMotley · · Score: 1

      Instead of being a whiny little bitch, perhaps you should do some research. Most of your claims are bullshit. For example, "The average speed of Internet connections at world level is 1.9 Mbps, in Romania it is 7.0 Mbps and in the United States 5.0 Mbps.". So the United States is well above the average, and Romania, the country you championed, actually only has high speed connectivity to local places. International traffic is most commonly limited to 256-2048 kbit/s even though they may actually have a 100Mb/s 100Base-T "connection". The average US connection is many times better than that. Additionally, 33% of their "broadband" connections are cellular, which they include EDGE in there, ROFLMAO!

      WAKE UP and stop flinging your bullshit around. Feel free to tether your PC to your 2G cell phone and tell me how great the Romanian "broadband" is.

    30. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're referring to the chattel-- er, customers that they, Verizon, and Sprint must compete for. When a corporation refers to "competition", it usually means "We have a ton of potential suckers, er, customers to choose from."

    31. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by scdeimos · · Score: 1

      It's not just the American telecoms. In Australia you have Telstra charging "only" 25c/MB ($250/GB) on their Freedom Connect mobile plans, but if you're on one of their regular mobile plans they're gouging you for $2/MB ($2,000/GB).

    32. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're aware, of course, that not collecting a tax isn't the same as giving them tax money, right? I know, I know.. your type oversimplifies explanations to equate the two in order to rouse populist rage. It's an easy sell, cause who doesn't want to feel like they're owed something?

    33. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      That's like 10 months service + phone subsidy, it makes no sense.

      I can't see any case where phone subsidy + 1.5 months service + activation fee is not enough, and if they want to be dicks make it 3 months service (I assume Verizon peaks at $150/month, but maybe there is some $500/month plan I don't know about).

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    34. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 1

      I don't know about you, but I don't feel like subsidizing your ability to gain income. Feel free to invest your own money like every other damned businessperson.

    35. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by mini+me · · Score: 1

      I don't think this thread had anything to do with subsidies. I was pointing out that there are good reasons for poor people to spend their mony on technology.

      Ignoring that, the whole telecommunications system has been built on subsidies and other government programs. If we waited for business people to invest their money, we wouldn't be communicating at all right now.

    36. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      It has to do with the amount of "premium" service fees you could rack up, as well as overage charges. I totally agree that it was way too much, but they were essentially saying they didn't want her as a customer.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    37. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by smithmc · · Score: 1

      ...is, of course, a necessity of life (in addition to cable television).

      For some, who are required to have ready access to email 24/7 for their jobs, it does become a necessity of (employment) life.

      And which of those people are paying for their own phones/plans, on a prepaid plan? I would imagine the employer is paying in these cases.

      --
      Downmodding is the refuge of the weak. Don't downmod, make a better argument!
  3. "Needs" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Nobody who is poor or living paycheque to paycheque NEEDS mobile data. I would argue they don't need cell phones at all but that's neither here nor there.

    1. Re:"Needs" by aristotle-dude · · Score: 1

      Nobody who is poor or living paycheque to paycheque NEEDS mobile data. I would argue they don't need cell phones at all but that's neither here nor there.

      Tell me, where is the nearest payphone booth? I don't know what it is like where you live but here in Canada, the only payphones that seem to still exists are in airports and shopping malls. It is expected that almost anyone can have a talk and text cell phone. Mobile data is not something that the poor should consider even using.

      --
      Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
    2. Re:"Needs" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Not only that but you know what...
      Let the "poor" pay for it. Just like they pay higher interest rates and a higher percentage of bank fees. I pay my bills on time, never carry over a credit balance, never overdraft and never go over my credit limits. When congress forced "bank and credit reform" a few years ago, it actually hurt people like me because banks have to make their money somehow so they took away some benefits like cashback %, started charging monthly fees for things that were free in the past etc. Well, that's out of my pocket now. My good credit and good financial management was rewarded by the banks with perks at the expense of those that were careless and I liked it better that way.

    3. Re:"Needs" by vell0cet · · Score: 2

      This argument is looking at it the completely wrong way. Whether you need it or not, should you have to pay $500/Gb? Poor or not?

    4. Re:"Needs" by icebike · · Score: 1

      Nobody who is poor or living paycheque to paycheque NEEDS mobile data. I would argue they don't need cell phones at all but that's neither here nor there.

      Tell me, where is the nearest payphone booth? I don't know what it is like where you live but here in Canada, the only payphones that seem to still exists are in airports and shopping malls. It is expected that almost anyone can have a talk and text cell phone. Mobile data is not something that the poor should consider even using.

      The grand parent was talking about MOBILE DATA.
      You are talking about PHONE CALLS.

      See the difference?

      Text is not considered mobile data. Even el-cheapo feature phones have text. Email, web surfing, multimedia are mobile data.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    5. Re:"Needs" by Homburg · · Score: 1

      Even el-cheapo feature phones have email, web surfing, and multimedia, though.

    6. Re:"Needs" by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      That's OK, I'm sure the banks are winning big on the bankruptcy law change.

      The one that lowers the risk to banks on existing balances (in the end it should all even out with slightly lower interest rates, but the law change applied to existing balances, adjusting the terms of money already lent).

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    7. Re:"Needs" by scot4875 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it was much better when the banks were making their money off of the people who could least afford it.

      Maybe instead you should be pissed off that banks have decided that their customers should be a large source of their income, rather than their investments.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    8. Re:"Needs" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe I'm one of the ones that can least afford it as well but I still don't use credit cards for things I know I can't pay off at the end of the month and I don't buy things that put me in a position that the monthly payments will eventually catch up with me. When someone loses a job, okay, but there are millions and millions of people that still have the same exact job they had when they bought that house, that car, and that cell phone plan on credit and now that the credit bus left, they can not continue to keep borrowing to maintain that lidestyle and they get behind. Those people are your coworkers, your neighbors, maybe even your brother and sister. Their house was refinanced and cashed out a few times already and the bills are piling up. They either change lifestyles and admit they are spending more then they are brining in or they move on to questionable insurance claims, injury claims etc... THAT is the major credit problem here, not poor Johny that used to work on the docks lost his job because of down sizing and he is missing a few payments on his 1998 Ford Escort.

    9. Re:"Needs" by ChoGGi · · Score: 1

      i'm in canada and i have a booth on the corner of my street
      i see them all over the place

  4. How silly by tripleevenfall · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "And given that pay-as-you-go pricing is what the poor and people living paycheck to paycheck use, the result is those who can afford the least still pay by far the most." What a silly comment. First, I doubt that people who are poor and use pay as you go generally have smartphones, and if they do, they are far less likely to be data users. Second, we are not at the point where smartphones with data are a can't-exist-without-it commodity. If you are this poor, should you be wasting money on any data plan? Certainly data prices from mobile providers are shockingly high, but this is a silly "think of the children" style fallacious appeal to emotion.

    1. Re:How silly by voss · · Score: 1

      Most people with pre-paid phones need voice and text messaging...not data plans.

    2. Re:How silly by tripleevenfall · · Score: 1

      I agree, but the article seems to be lamenting the poorest of the poor being overcharged for their iPhone plans.

    3. Re:How silly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Perhaps the typical slashdot reader isn't the best qualified to make that kind of broad value judgment about low-income earners and their 'need' for data service. It also walks right past the issue of why the same service is 5 times the per-unit cost for different classes of credit scores or contract tolerance. I can understand twice or even thrice, to act as a buffer for payment uncertainty. But five times? And this is the result of a Grand Gesture, of bringing it down from fifty times? That kind of cost elasticity is staggering. I find it hard to believe sudden improvements in tech and process brought about such huge savings that they'd pass it on to the users. (Why not similar percentage cuts to post-paid users, then?) If so, they've been sitting on these kinds of earnings and would continue to do so were it not for outside forces. Clearly this is for the benefit of their merger consideration before the FCC and Congress, not the pre-paid users who didn't have the influence or ability to effect these cost changes on their own.

    4. Re:How silly by stephencrane · · Score: 1

      Oops, missed that I wasn't logged in.

    5. Re:How silly by Stenchwarrior · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "And given that pay-as-you-go pricing is what the poor and people living paycheck to paycheck use...

      And people with bad credit.

      --
      Loading...
    6. Re:How silly by grcumb · · Score: 2

      Most people with pre-paid phones need voice and text messaging...not data plans.

      Oh, so it's okay to rip off the ones who actually do need data, then? Or maybe poor peoples' bandwidth actually does cost orders of magnitude more than that of others?

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    7. Re:How silly by Antisyzygy · · Score: 1

      The cellphone carries are like the bottled water industry even with data plans. They charge 1 dollar for what costs them .001 dollars, even more if you don't have a subscription.

      --
      That brings me to an interesting point, / . is just "the ramblings of socially-inept, technology-literate news-mongers".
    8. Re:How silly by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      It's pretty silly for most people, poor or not, to pay such ridiculous prices for what little value that cellular data services provide. I can easily pay what they ask but it galls me to just let someone fuck me like that. I'd rather donate to the red cross or something than some bastard in an ivory tower who manipulates my crooked ass congressman into voting to let him rape my wallet. I've got internet at home and a laptop with wifi for hotspots. Until they get reasonable about prices they can kiss my ass. They can keep their shitty service and I'll keep my money.

    9. Re:How silly by Jawnn · · Score: 1

      "And given that pay-as-you-go pricing is what the poor and people living paycheck to paycheck use, the result is those who can afford the least still pay by far the most." What a silly comment. First, I doubt that people who are poor and use pay as you go generally have smartphones, and if they do, they are far less likely to be data users. Second, we are not at the point where smartphones with data are a can't-exist-without-it commodity. If you are this poor, should you be wasting money on any data plan? Certainly data prices from mobile providers are shockingly high, but this is a silly "think of the children" style fallacious appeal to emotion.

      Well..., that is one of the most unrealistic and out-of-touch utterances since Barbara Bush commented on how having to seek refuge in an old sports stadium in a distant city was a step up for the victims of Hurricane Katrina.
      You, sir, are insensitive and clueless idiot. Do youself a favor and educate yourself on the plight of the poor. You have a great deal to learn.

    10. Re:How silly by fermion · · Score: 1
      It really has nothing to do with poor/rich and smartphones. It has to do with those want a recurring known bill, and those who want to minimize costs. A person of means who does not use a phone a lot might very well decide to use a pay as you go plan. If you don't use a phone every day, it could be cheaper than the basic plan.

      People of limited means may indeed have a smart phone, but it is unlikely they have a smart phone from ATT. ATT, or Verizon for that matter, are simply not the value carriers. When looking at prepaid plans people complain about the relative hight cost, but do they actually look at how that cost will affect them? Honest on this plan I would not be worse off than I am now. As I use few minutes, and the average plan charges for a huge fee for minutes and not much more for data, I would break even. So though this reduction might seem trivial, it might open up the possibility for someone who wants to use a smartphone but does not have $70 a month to pay for the contract plan. If most data and calls are over WiFi, if should be easy to data over the air to 100 MB a month, or $50. To some that might seem extreme, but is might a significant cost savings to some.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    11. Re:How silly by vlm · · Score: 1

      "And given that pay-as-you-go pricing is what the poor and people living paycheck to paycheck use, the result is those who can afford the least still pay by far the most."
      What a silly comment.

      I agree, for different reasons. I'm not wealthy, but I'm doing ... pretty well. I didn't get to this level by signing high multi-year monthly payment contracts. Needless to say I have a pay as you go phone. I pay about $10 per month to virgin mobile on average. That's like 20 minutes of service, which is all I need, and its worth well over $10 to me so I'm very happy with it (shh, don't tell VM)

      I have almost no use for mobile data, but I might sign up for one month during a vacation or something (google maps, etc). But they have to pay their bills every month for the infrastructure, designed around roping people into multi-year contracts for stuff they mostly won't use. And unlike the guy whom signs up, and in his 14th month is pretty tired of it and does not use it at all, I'm going to absolutely blast the thing while I'm on vacation, I'll actually use it! So I'm willing to defend their high pricing.

      Their pricing assumes the subscriber will sign up for about one month, then never again, or at least not for a long time. They don't have the luxury of a contract tying them down for years of payment. Ask yourself how much the cableco would charge if you wanted them to install, watch TV for one hour, then disconnect immediately after that one show.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    12. Re:How silly by sorak · · Score: 1

      Most people with pre-paid phones need voice and text messaging...not data plans.

      Oh, so it's okay to rip off the ones who actually do need data, then? Or maybe poor peoples' bandwidth actually does cost orders of magnitude more than that of others?

      Or maybe it's ok to rip off people who make bad decisions....Freedom for the rich, but if you're poor, then it's "why do you need that?"

    13. Re:How silly by kaiser423 · · Score: 2

      A large number of poor people access the internet solely through smartphones. It is much, much cheaper to add data to a phone, than it is to get even the most basic of service.

      Dropping your landline and use the smartphone for internet is typically the cheapest deal out there, rather than having a line+dialup or line+cable/dsl internet.

      Some websites that cater to the poor have numbers of ~50% of the users accessing the data through a smartphone.

    14. Re:How silly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First, I doubt that people who are poor and use pay as you go generally have smartphones, and if they do, they are far less likely to be data users.

      Quite the contrary. For a lot of poor people, especially younger ones, their phones are the only data they have.

    15. Re:How silly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      At this point in time, forgoing a traditional computer completely in favour of using a smartphone (not neccessarilly an iPhone, there are smartphones out there that are far cheaper for what they do) is actually be the frugal thing to do for people who don't have that much money to go around. That is, in countries where you can get pay-as-you-go mobile data at reasonable prices.

      A lot of these phones you can hook up to a television with analogue video cables to get a bigger non-squinty (though low-reslution) display, and you can use a bluetooth keyboard for more comfortable text entry to compose longer e-mails. It's not pretty, but it's definitely a viable alternative to getting a real computer, even for more extensive usage.

      The smartphone is no longer the luxury, the luxury is having a real computer in addition to the smartphone. Don't get me wrong, you wouldn't catch me dead without a real computer to do work on, at this point in time. Smartphones becoming the PC killer, especially with "docking stations" to hook up a keyboard display and maybe even a mouse is a very possible future scenario given recent trends of doing more in the cloud and on mobile. Phones with HDMI output are already coming to market, and if you really wanted to, I'm sure you could use a smartphone to drive an RDP terminal to your corporate VDI with a real keyboard, video and mouse setup *today* with not too much hackery.

    16. Re:How silly by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      How bad does your credit need to be? If I'm lucky, my score is in the high 500's, and I still qualified for an iPhone from AT&T.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    17. Re:How silly by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      They can go to the library. That's the cheapest method there is.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    18. Re:How silly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As the carriers move to voice over IP, the poor *WILL* need data plans to make all their calls.

      still no fix for the mess with 911. without tiered service (all 911 calls should be prioritized over your bittorrent porn) we're all suffering slow speeds which could prove dangerous unless GOVT steps up to the plate and regulates better. but with budgets being slashed i don't see that happening. the number one way for govt to save money is to lay off workers. which is why republicants always slash jobs first to benefit corporations.

    19. Re:How silly by StormReaver · · Score: 1

      "And given that pay-as-you-go pricing is what the poor and people living paycheck to paycheck use...

      And people with bad credit.

      And people with basic math skills.

    20. Re:How silly by Mousit · · Score: 1

      "And given that pay-as-you-go pricing is what the poor and people living paycheck to paycheck use...

      And people with bad credit.

      And people who simply use a phone so rarely (but need the available-anywhere nature of cellular when they do need to make that phone call) that PAYG is as much as ten times cheaper than post-pay. I pay less than $100 per year for my PAYG service, which gets used mostly when I travel (hence being cellular comes in handy), but I like maintaining service so I have a fixed phone number.

    21. Re:How silly by QuantumRiff · · Score: 1

      Actually, in my area, there are more poor people with a $100 cell phone and a very cheap data plan than there are with a $600 laptop and $50/month internet connection. I think I prefer they spend their money on that. Good luck finding a decent job if you don't have internet..

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    22. Re:How silly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't need or should not buy it it if you can't afford it. It really is that simple man. Why do you see a problem with that? I have three cars and I bought them all used and they currently all have over 125K miles on them. I can easily afford to pay cash for one or two brand new compact cars or finance just about any two new cars but I have a house to maintain, a roof that will need to be replaced soon and god knows what else might come up. I only have money and a 401K now because I bought smaller house that I could get a 15 year loan on, used cars and I still have a plain old cell phone.

    23. Re:How silly by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 1

      So you never use your phone but you need lots of data? Get a Mifi.

    24. Re:How silly by Mousit · · Score: 1

      Actually I use no data, and have no data plan at all. I certainly wouldn't be on PAYG if I needed lots of data, I'd just be screwing myself over going that route.

    25. Re:How silly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And those of us who have phones and simply don't care to have a contract.

      I use my phone mostly for text messaging and data. An Android smartphone through Virgin Mobile USA runs about $150-200, and you pay $25 a month for 300 minutes talk (talk? what's that?) plus unlimited texts and data.

      Yes, there's a slowdown once you hit 5GB. I've never actually hit that much data though... I use the home PC for large downloads.

    26. Re:How silly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where are these $100 smartphones? It's more like...
      $200 smartphone, +phone plan probably about $60/month after taxes and all plan charges if you want to use data and SMS if you are lucky. That is $1640 for two years which is the typical contract. You can buy a laptop for under $300 or get a used desktop for about $100-200 and get cheap ass DSL for about $19-29 month. Best case, that is $756. You could get a PAYG voice/sms only phone for about $10-15 a month and still come out way ahead.

    27. Re:How silly by sznupi · · Score: 1

      Prepaid is not only the rule throughout the world... for a lot of those people, the mobile is the only (& first) way to access the internet. With "smartphone" being a fluid and ultimately quite meaningless description.

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    28. Re:How silly by smithmc · · Score: 1

      The cellphone carries are like the bottled water industry even with data plans. They charge 1 dollar for what costs them .001 dollars, even more if you don't have a subscription.

      Yeah, and people don't need bottled water either, just like most people don't need web and email on the go. You can fill up your own bottle of water from the tap, just like you can do your browsing and email correspondence from the home or office. If you want the extra convenience of bottled water, or data on your smartphone, then you pay for that convenience. Why does this surprise anyone?

      --
      Downmodding is the refuge of the weak. Don't downmod, make a better argument!
    29. Re:How silly by Antisyzygy · · Score: 1

      Because the rest of the world has reasonable charges for data plans, and the US doesn't. It definitively proves that the US cell carriers are screwing people over. Its an anti-competitive practice that IS an oligopoly or is bordering on one and the FTC and FCC are supposed to step in and penalize them for this and/or force them to stop. They don't because they are corrupt. Simple as that. Our government is one big steaming pile of corruption at the highest level. Bought and paid for by special interests and corporate big-wigs. There is nothing wrong with a free market, and everyone always rushes to the defense of corporations with this as an excuse, but THERE IS NO free market in telecomm and cell carriers in the US today. Republicans in office today are a bunch of big hypocrites. It is obvious when time and time again they do things that hurt the American consumer and worker. I have nothing nice to say about Democrats either.

      --
      That brings me to an interesting point, / . is just "the ramblings of socially-inept, technology-literate news-mongers".
    30. Re:How silly by eldepeche · · Score: 1

      I hope they never need to use the internet outside of the hours the library is open.

      What? Libraries are cutting back hours because of reduced funding? People work during the day? There is little-to-no overlap between their non-work hours and the library's open hours?

      Poor people should hew to my standard of austerity.

    31. Re:How silly by smithmc · · Score: 1

      Because the rest of the world has reasonable charges for data plans, and the US doesn't. It definitively proves that the US cell carriers are screwing people over. Its an anti-competitive practice that IS an oligopoly or is bordering on one and the FTC and FCC are supposed to step in and penalize them for this and/or force them to stop. They don't because they are corrupt. Simple as that. Our government is one big steaming pile of corruption at the highest level. Bought and paid for by special interests and corporate big-wigs. There is nothing wrong with a free market, and everyone always rushes to the defense of corporations with this as an excuse, but THERE IS NO free market in telecomm and cell carriers in the US today. Republicans in office today are a bunch of big hypocrites. It is obvious when time and time again they do things that hurt the American consumer and worker. I have nothing nice to say about Democrats either.

      If the market wasn't willing to pay, it wouldn't. Since it does pay, (and since we're not talking about food, water, or air) it must be willing.

      --
      Downmodding is the refuge of the weak. Don't downmod, make a better argument!
    32. Re:How silly by sorak · · Score: 1

      Well, you don't need a cell phone. I think the cell phone companies should raise your rates.

  5. Oh no! by bws111 · · Score: 1

    Gasp! The thought of all those poor people who can't afford to use their smart phones, tablets, and netbooks is almost too much to bear... Get a little perspective.

    1. Re:Oh no! by LWATCDR · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think the point is that those people are getting soaked. If you want a smart phone you better not want to go prepaid. Of course there are other carriers that do not abuse their customers at that rate. The problem is that one of them is being bought by AT&T... Hey FCC and FTC did you see this?

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    2. Re:Oh no! by goathumper · · Score: 1
      I would answer with the same to you bws...get some perspective. I'm not poor by any account, though I'm certainly not swimming in ca$h. I'm not based in the US nor do I have the ability to get one of the "cheap"(er) US phone plans so pay-as-I-go is my only choice when I travel to the US (which is often). This is very important for the same reasons your smartphone and tablet are important to you: keeping in touch with the fast-moving tech environment I work in.

      I already got fleeced once by AT&T, and all because of a late "no credit left" message. I got the "0 data credit" left message at 8am, when i reality the actual point of running out of credit was 3am. So naturally I got fleeced for those 5 hours my phone was using data without a "bulk plan". Nevermind that I had ample credit in my pay-as-you-go account to renew the bulk plan had I been notified in a timely manner (or, at least, my data traffic stopped until a selection was made as to how I wanted to proceed).

      Pay-as-you-go isn't JUST for the "poor, wretched masses yearning to have phones". It also serves a large portion of traveling, non-american (yes, such people exist in the world and are actually more numerous than americans) businessfolk who simply find it an easier (or as in my case, the only) option due to frequency of travel.

      And yes - while we're not exactly destitute, few of us are happy with paying such abusive data rates when clearly such an overcharge is unwarranted.

      So I second your sentiment: get some perspective - but first, get a bigger picture so that perspective is a bit better informed.

    3. Re:Oh no! by internerdj · · Score: 1

      Don't you watch the news? Every time the FCC listens to Slashdot, Congress takes away a piece of their power...

    4. Re:Oh no! by davev2.0 · · Score: 0

      I think you and any poor person who is using a smart phone need to get your priorities straight. If someone is poor, then that person should not be wasting money buying a smart phone or data plan. They have more important things to worry about such as the basics of life like food and shelter.

      If you can not qualify or afford either a contract or a monthly plan, then you really shouldn't be spending the money on a smart phone because, honestly, you don't have the resources.

      Complaining that poor people are getting soaked in the mobile phone data market is like complaining that poor people are getting a bum deal when it comes to buying champaign and caviar or driving exotic sports cars.. Just because a product is available, it does not follow that the product is going to be affordable for everyone. Every product or service is not not targeted at all segments of the population nor are they required to be priced so everyone can afford them.

    5. Re:Oh no! by davev2.0 · · Score: 0

      Let me get this straight. You didn't monitor your usage and went over your allowed data plan and are upset because they notified you at 0800 instead of immediately when you ran out at 0300 even though they are not required to notify you at all. Does that sound about right?

      Sounds to me like you fit right in here in America with your victim mentality.

      You are responsible for monitoring your usage, not the cell company. Next time, act like a responsible adult and monitor your usage.

    6. Re:Oh no! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds to me like you fit right in here in America with your victim mentality.

      Nay, you, with your blame the victim mentality.

    7. Re:Oh no! by eldepeche · · Score: 1

      You can buy an Android phone for $99 that can go with a prepaid plan: http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/phones/prepaid.aspx#T-Mobile-Comet-Black-Prepaid-Refurbished

      Home phone and internet service together usually run around $60 a month (or more), and you need a computer to use it. Looks pretty comparable to me, unless you think poor people shouldn't be able to get on the internet.

      It's not 1998, cell phones are not a luxury item anymore. The internet is not a playground for the rich, it is how people find out about the world and stay in touch with friends and family and find jobs and bargain-shop. It is pretty close to a necessity.

      If someone can afford rent and bills and food, communication with the outside world is the next thing on the list. You're explicitly saying that we shouldn't care about the prepaid market getting gouged for data because they shouldn't be spending their money on it anyway.

      And you misspelled "Champagne," asshole.

    8. Re:Oh no! by LWATCDR · · Score: 0

      I think you need to thing. I am not complaining about the poor getting soaked for data plans. I am complaining about PEOPLE GETTING SOAKED ON A DATA PLAN!
      Since you seem to hate the poor so much and think they should get ripped off let me give you some examples of other people that may want a pay as you go data plan. Someone travelling to the US on business. They may want to pick up a couple of pre paid sims and use their phones in the US. Data roaming charges are sick.
      If you are travelling from europe to the US then odds are that you are not poor.
      Other people just like not having a contract and do not want to pay for a plan. I was thinking of picking up a nokia smart phone to use on my motorcycle trips with a pay as you go plan. They run for a very long time on a charge and have very good navigation software. I wouldn't want to use it as my everyday phone but it would be nice if I could go pick up a card before a long trip and use it.
      But some how you have it all twisted up that this is about the poor. No it is about ripping people office with outrageous prices.
      Oh and if you RTFA you would have seen that the price of data is 100 times what iPad owners pay for pay as you go data! IT IS A RIP OFF!
      Oh and before you start telling people that they need to get their priorities straight I suggest you get yours in order. Frankly from your posts you are one of the poorest people I have ever seen post slashdot. The saddest poverty has nothing to do with the lack of money.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    9. Re:Oh no! by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      I think this might explain his post. You see he isn't poor. http://www.theonion.com/articles/as-you-can-see-from-my-namebrand-clothing-i-am-not,10836/

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    10. Re:Oh no! by reg · · Score: 1

      I use prepaid on a smartphone because it is the best deal. I don't download movies on my phone, and it connects to wifi in it's most common locations. Hence I only use 15MB or so of data a month. Buying a 100MB ($20) package every now and then and a monthly 1MB ($5) package every month so the 100MB keeps rolling over, means I can go for about 6 months, at $20+6*$5=$50, or just under $10 per month. If I had a contract, that would be $30+ per month on top of my contract. Don't be fooled by Costco pricing - just because it is cheaper to buy in bulk doesn't mean it is cost effective. Although I'll definitely change to the new plan - my rate will be a around $6/month then.

    11. Re:Oh no! by StealthPanda · · Score: 1

      You are missing the point. For many poor people, a cellphone is the only access point they have for the Internet outside of public computers in public buildings, with often-restrictive operating hours. (Libraries, etc.)

      Not everyone can afford to have home computers and internet connections. Get a little perspective.

    12. Re:Oh no! by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      I don't download movies but I do download podcasts and stream radio and use RDIO a lot. If you can live with the limitations then great but the price per is till way too hight. Wouldn't you like to pay $20 for a 2 gig package every year os so instead of $10 per month? I mean if it was avail about to you.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    13. Re:Oh no! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Virgin mobile has cheap 3g data.

    14. Re:Oh no! by davev2.0 · · Score: 0

      Mot people do not need internet service or a computer. And, smart phones are still luxury items. That $100 for the android phone is also food for a week, an electric bill, almost a week's rent in a cheap apartment. Almost no one needs one. In fact, considering how most people use their phones almost exclusively for texting, most people would be better off with a two way pager.

      I like the way you put that "rent and bills and food". Well, you know what, "bills" encompasses a lot of things. I also notice you didn't include any money put aside for emergencies. And, again, mobile data access is not a necessity, it is a luxury. A cell phone and cell service can substitute, and may be better than, home phone service, but the data connectivity is not needed and is, in fact, a luxury.

      You never leave your house and communicate with the outside world with nothing more than your smart phone, right? I mean, that is the only reason I can see for insisting that one requires a smart phone with data access to communicate with the outside world, especially considering that one can simply go outside and interact with the outside world, you fucking, spoiled little shit.

      You know, shithead, I see people every day who live here in America without smart phones and without computers. You know how they do it? They have a regular cell phone, they make friends with their neighbors, and they go to a fucking library to use a computer. These people live in crappy neighborhoods, and are poor. But, you know what they don't have and don't need to go about their lives? Smart phones, laptops, home computers, and mobile data access.

      You are complaining that they are not able to afford a luxury good, when they are busy spending their money on the necessities of life. Oh, and a lot of these people will have one, maybe two cell phones per HOUSEHOLD, which may consist of three generations.

      I suggest you and your self-righteous ilk actually interact with the poor some time. And, I don't mean the drug dealers, drug addicted strippers, pimps, whores, and assorted other criminal lowlifes you get your jollies with, I mean the actual working poor. I have been one and I can tell you have never been. I have no doubt that you are an over-entitled college student who is still busy sucking on mommy's tit and fucking off in school to get a real job and is probably too scared to actually talk to a real poor person.

      You are an ignorant, over-entitled, spoiled, pissant with delusions of helping the poor by giving them things they don't need but you think are necessities. You would give the poor polo mallets when what they really want is food, shelter, and decent paying jobs.

    15. Re:Oh no! by davev2.0 · · Score: 0

      You are yet another dumbass who thinks that data plans are a necessity. MOBILE DATA ACCESS IS LUXURY, NOT A NECESSITY. Tell me, have you ever been poor? Have you ever had to skip a meal or three to pay a bill? I have been poor and have had to do just that. I know poor people. I have worked with them, lived in poor neighborhoods, and had poor people as friends and neighbors. You know what? None of us needed mobile data access. When we needed to use the internet, we went to the library or to a friend who had a computer and internet access. None of use had smart phones. We had regular cell phones and pagers. A few of use had computers, and I had the only laptop.

      If using mobile data access is a ripoff as you say, don't use it. Problem solved. Oh, and you do know that one way companies keeps people from using a service they offer but don't have much capacity for is to charge a lot for using said service, right?

      Oh, and while we are at it, what, exactly do you know about mobile data technology and access? Do you know how it works? Do you know anything about what happens between the handset, the tower, and the switch center? You do understand that cellular phone technology is geared towards voice calls and not data right?

      You are not upset about any ripoff, because there is no ripoff. I am going to tell you straight out. You are an over-entitled, spoiled brat who is outraged that a company specializing in mobile voice and text communications has decided that pre-paid mobile data access is a luxury and has decided to charge like it is a luxury, and you consider that a ripoff. Well, let me inform you of something, mobile data access, prepaid or not, is a luxury and no one actually needs to use it. Hell, the way most people use their cell phones, they would be better off with two-way pagers. Why aren't you complaining that it is a ripoff to require a voice plan to get texting?

    16. Re:Oh no! by davev2.0 · · Score: 0

      Oh, and GoPhone is targeted at people who can not get a regular service plan, which requires a credit check and/or a deposit. That demographic would be the poor and those with poor credit. Your "poor vs people" statement in the first paragraph is semantically null. The poor are people and they are the subgroup the author claims is most effected by the situation explored. The poor are people and they are the target market for this service.

    17. Re:Oh no! by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      And charging anybody that much for data is a rip off. Yes I had some friends visiting from the UK and they wanted to buy a prepaid sim to put into their phone. Since AT&T is uses the bands as their carriers for 3G that is the carrier they wanted to use. The problem was that price was at this super high level.
      And as for the rest of your rant about do I know how mobile works the answer is yes within some limits I do. I can also read which does help. If you JUST want pay as you go data for ipad you can get it for $10 per GB.
      It is a RIP off. And yes it can be someone that is as you put it poor but it can also be someone just starting out. A divorced woman with little credit in her name. Or just someone that doesn't want a contract. It doesn't matter that if you think people need this or not. It is extremely expensive and since AT&T is regulated and is now trying to buy another major carrier which does require governmental approval such extreme pricing schemes should be looked at.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    18. Re:Oh no! by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Cell phones are cheaper than land lines for most people and you do need a phone to get a job. The internet is also very useful for finding work, getting government services, and even education.

      While I am amazed at people that think that Cable TV is a necessity I do not think that a phone of some kind is a luxury. And frankly in this day and age some kind of internet access is vital. The nearest public library to my home is well over ten miles away and their hours are extremely limited so for a person that is working it just isn't an option for internet access.

      But what you still don't get is that this price is just outrageous it doesn't matter who is the target audience is the price it's self is the problem. It is really you that is just making this a social issue and saying how people should spend there money!

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    19. Re:Oh no! by eldepeche · · Score: 1

      All I said is that a "fancy" cell phone and a data plan for it aren't ungodly expensive anymore, and if someone with bad credit decides they want one, there is no reason they should pay an order of magnitude more than someone with better credit.

      I'm not the one saying everybody who wants a fucking cell phone is an entitled prick. I never judged anybody for which consumer products they want to buy. I think everyone can set their own priorities and make their own decisions, and the best we as a society can do is to prevent predatory business plans from taking root and fucking everybody over.

      I don't have to prove myself to some self-righteous cock on the internet, especially one who probably complains about young bucks driving Cadillacs and buying steaks with their welfare checks.

    20. Re:Oh no! by davev2.0 · · Score: 0

      They wanted, but did not need. If it was such a ripoff, they should have said "no".

      The limits of your knowledge are much greater than you imagine. I work in the wireless industry and know a lot more about it than you do. I do not directly work for any one carrier, but I have worked for several carriers, several handset manufacturers, and now for an inter-carrier operator. I have a pretty good idea as to why they charge so much for it. They have only allocated so much bandwidth to GoPhone units and using data eats up that bandwidth. They don't want their GoPhone customers using data, so they make using data very expensive. It is their right as a company to charge what they want and if the customers don't like it, they can go somewhere else, say MetroPCS.

      And, it doesn't matter if you think it is extremely expensive. All luxury goods are expensive. Diamonds, caviar, champagne, supercars, fur coats, furniture made from solid wood and leather, etc. are all expensive. You keep complaining that something that is a luxury is expensive from a budget brand. Yes, it is expensive, but it is not a ripoff. Very few people actually need it. Don't like it, don't use it.

    21. Re:Oh no! by davev2.0 · · Score: 0
      This is not about phones and cellular phone service. This is about mobile data access. GoPhone is a cellular phone and while phone service may be a necessity, mobile data access is not.

      If one is looking for a job, one has the time to go to the library. Also, where I live, I can go to the local unemployment office and use computers in the office to search for on-line jobs. One can also go to Kinko's or an internet cafe as many people in the 2nd and 3rd world do. For almost everyone, mobile data access is not vital. For most, even internet access is not vital. Unless one is required to be able to access the internet at a moment's notice, one does not need mobile data access. There is a good chance even you don't need internet access nor is it vital to your existence. Remember, gaming is not vital, neither is checking twitter, facebook, or slashdot. Looking at lolcats, porn, or youtube is not vital. And, you don't need to do any of that from your cell phone. Get a netbook or a laptop and go to Panera Bread, Barnes and Nobles, Denny's, coffee shops, even many McDonalds have free wifi now. I can go to my local mall, which is pretty ghetto, and they have an area set up by the food court with couches, power, and free wifi.Mobile data access via cellular telephone provider is not a necessity, it is a luxury and almost no one needs it.

      It is really you that is just making this a social issue and saying how people should spend there money!

      You are the one saying a company should not be allowed to charge whatever they want for their service. You are saying that the government should step in and regulate the price of a luxury service so that everyone can have it because you don't think it is fair that only those that can afford the service can use it. YOU are the one making this a social issue by saying that the people are being ripped off because they are being charged a lot for a luxury service, which most people don't even need, by their sub-prime provider. You are the one saying the government must regulate the price of a luxury good to ensure everyone can have it. And, yes, GoPhone is the sub-prime service arm of AT&T.

    22. Re:Oh no! by davev2.0 · · Score: 0
      This is explicitly about mobile data access, which is a premium, luxury service, not cell phones or cell phone service. No one is saying "everybody who wants a fucking cell phone is an entitled prick". No, I am saying that you suggesting that someone who can not afford to pay for a deposit and/or pass a credit check should be treated like and charged the same as someone who can do those things makes you an entitled prick.

      I am saying that having a fancy cell phone and a data plan are luxuries and your suggesting that people who can't afford the luxury are being ripped off by having to pay the price for the luxury makes you an entitled prick.

      Mobile data access is a luxury. It is a premium service. GoPhone is pricing it as such. You don't like it, don't use it. If their customers don't like it, they don't have to use it. You and they can go over to MetroPCS and get a phone from them with unlimited phone, text, and data for about $60.00 a month plus the usual taxes and fees.

      Don't sit there and say how some company should price its services how you think they should because you don't think it is fair. It is not your decision and if you don't like their pricing structure, don't use them. Don't use their product or service and they will lower their price or go out of business. GoPhone doesn't want to lower its mobile data access fees, so don't use GoPhone for mobile data accesss, or at all. I am explicitly saying that it is perfectly fine for GoPhone and AT&T to charge a high price for a premium service if it is provided by a sub-prime carrier like GoPhone, especially if they do not want GoPhone users to use said premium service. If GoPhone customers don't like it, they can go somewhere else because they do not have a contract. That is one of the advantage of a GoPhone, remember? And, don't go around suggesting that the government should step in and set the price for that company's service. The U.S. is not the a fascist or socialist state where the government runs all the companies and/or sets the prices. If you want that, move to Venezuela or Cuba.

      I think everyone can set their own priorities and make their own decisions, and the best we as a society can do is to prevent predatory business plans from taking root and fucking everybody over.

      So, what you are saying is that people should be allowed to make their own decisions, except for the people who run companies. Those people should have to price their product according to what you think is fair. It can only be a predatory plan if the plan causes people to have to continually return to the business. That is what makes payday loans predatory. But, this is not like that. This is pre-paid phone and data service. The phone part is reasonable and no one is forced to use the premium service, the luxury service of mobile data access. And, when one runs out of credit, one doesn't have to pay and continue to use the service, phone or data. One can simply stop using the data access service and use only the phone service. Or, one can go to a different service. One does not have to use mobile data access and one can simply walk away from a pre-paid service. There is no debt and no contract to hold one to the provider.

      Oh, and you have already proven yourself to be arrogant, short-sighted, and willfully ignorant of the subject, capitalism, and our government.

    23. Re:Oh no! by eldepeche · · Score: 1

      I believe that the decisions of a large company with competitors that can be counted on one hand should be subject to more scrutiny than those of a person with bad credit who wants to get on the internet, probably because I am a flaming liberal.

      Also, numbers assigned to prepaid accounts are not required to be portable to other carriers, so it's a pain in the ass to switch to a different carrier. But if you're poor, you probably deserve it because you spent money on a fancy cell phone instead of whatever this asshole thinks you should buy. That's capitalism.

  6. T-mobile web day pass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    T-mobile web day pass is $1.50/23hr, unlimited access.

    1. Re:T-mobile web day pass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's nice and all, until AT&T finalizes the buyout of T-Mobile and that nifty deal silently dies a sad, undeserved death.

      And please don't delude yourself into thinking there's a chance the FCC/FTC/etc will stop the sale. I mean, when was the last time they actually PREVENTED Ma Bell from reforming?

    2. Re:T-mobile web day pass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great, except the web day pass is no longer offered, 10 days is the new minimum: T-Mobile Internet plans.

  7. canada overage costs by ustolemyname · · Score: 5, Informative

    Canada:
    TELUS: $50/gb
    Rogers: $30/gb

    1. Re:canada overage costs by feepness · · Score: 1

      On or off plan? On plan if you go over you just buy another block. $20/2gb I think.

    2. Re:canada overage costs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i pay ~$7 for 1gb/month. an additional gb costs ~$3
      This is in Sweden and its far from the cheapest data-carrier if you need lots of traffic.

    3. Re:canada overage costs by Splab · · Score: 1

      Denmark: less than $10 for 1GB plan and no overcharge, but you will be shaped to something akin to 1990 internet when you hit the 1GB cap.

    4. Re:canada overage costs by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

      If it weren't for the Bikini Team, I'd have to hate you.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    5. Re:canada overage costs by davev2.0 · · Score: 0

      This is not about overage. It is about pre-paid, non-contract usage.

    6. Re:canada overage costs by 200_success · · Score: 1

      Yes, but can you even get data access on a prepaid plan? I don't think such service is even offered.

    7. Re:canada overage costs by Citizen+of+Earth · · Score: 3

      Rogers has a pay-as-you-go data plan where you pay $45/month for 500 MB plus 5 cents per KILObyte for overage, or **$50,000.00** per gigabyte. This has to be a world record!

    8. Re:canada overage costs by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 1

      Canada:
      TELUS: $50/gb
      Rogers: $30/gb

      That's outrageous. In Finland, we got an unlimited data plan for euro 3/month (at only 384kbps, but without caps etc.) as an add-on for my daughter's smartphone service. In principle, that could be up to 4 GB per day, but in practice she uses only a few GB per month.

      --
      Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    9. Re:canada overage costs by InakaBoyJoe · · Score: 1

      And the reason? Telus: 1900MHz WCDMA Rogers: 1900MHz WCDMA Bell: 1900MHz WCDMA In the space of two years, Canada has gone from way behind the US to way ahead, just because of inter-compatible, and thus competing, networks. We even get the iPhone unlocked up here with no need for stupid CDMA versions. Long live 3GSM!

    10. Re:canada overage costs by Matthew+M.+McClinch · · Score: 1

      Yes, but can you even get data access on a prepaid plan? I don't think such service is even offered.

      Sure you can. What was news to me, though, was that you could use AT&T prepaid on a smartphone.

    11. Re:canada overage costs by Maow · · Score: 1

      Canada:

      TELUS: $50/gb

      Rogers: $30/gb

      Let me add what I have, with Wind Mobile:

      $40 / month, unlimited internet (throttled after 5 gigs), PLUS unlimited talk & text Canada-wide, PLUS USA-wide talk & text (lower 48 only?), PLUS free global SMS.

      I've been on the plan for months now, with a "free" (WindTab) Huawei 8100 Android phone.

      Could not ask for a better deal.

      Not affiliated, just a happy customer.

    12. Re:canada overage costs by Chowderbags · · Score: 1

      1 GB gets you 7,669,584 text messages. At 25 cents per text message, that comes out to $1,533,916..

    13. Re:canada overage costs by Lost+Race · · Score: 1

      Last week when I took a trip to Canada, AT&T sent me a nice text message informing me that roaming data rates would be $15.36/megabyte, i.e. $15,360/gigabyte. I have their $30/month unlimited data plan in the USA.

      Fuck AT&T.

  8. So what? by Redbaran · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Let them charge as much as they want! All the better for companies like MetroPCS and the pay-as-you-go shops. Walmart has a $45 30day unlimited everything plan: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Straight-Talk-Unlimited-Text-Talk-and-Web-Access-30-Day-Service-Card-Email-Delivery/15443344 This isn't discrimination against "the poor and oppressed" like the summary implies, it's more like a stupid tax for someone who can't find a better deal.

    1. Re:so what? by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      VM is wholly owned by Sprint.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    2. Re:so what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Virgin Mobile has two Android phones which get you unlimited data for $25/month. It's far and away the cheapest smart phone data plan in the US.

      This is what I got for my wife (my work pays for my phone). I'm not poor, but I don't like spending a ton of money on a phone, so we went prepaid. The Intercept isn't the best phone out there, but it's good enough for what we use it for. The LG phone came to VM after we got the Intercept, it's supposed to be better if you can deal with no physical keyboard.

      I also bought one of VM's pay as you go USB modems from Walmart; the Walmart one has a 1GB/30 day option for $20, the regular ones are $10/100mb & $40/unlimited (5BG then slows down) only. Useful for family vacations. For some reason I got it for $35, but usually it's $80 or so.

    3. Re:So what? by metalmaster · · Score: 1

      That might go away soon or be replaced with something more expensive because Walmart is only reselling Tmobile

    4. Re:So what? by qpqp · · Score: 1

      Can you buy it as, i.e. a tourist, without a SSN?

    5. Re:so what? by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 1

      Who cares what T does when we have VM?

      Virgin Mobile doesn't seem to exist within a 500 mile radius of where I live. Not much help.

      --
      Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
    6. Re:So what? by hedwards · · Score: 1

      There's only 4 options at the moment, and if the AT&T acquisition of T-mobile goes through we'll only have 3 options. Sure there are others, but Boost is owned by Sprint, and any other parties wanting to be cell phone carriers would have to contract with one of those 4.

      Same ultimately goes for people that are wanting internet service at home, there's an extremely limited number of options. The markets don't function well when there aren't any choices to make.

    7. Re:so what? by whovian · · Score: 1

      Virgin Mobile has two Android phones which get you unlimited data for $25/month. It's far and away the cheapest smart phone data plan in the US.

      Yes, plan. And it will currently cost 8 months' worth of plan just to purchase the phone.

      --
      To-do List: Receive telemarketing call during a tornado warning. Check.
    8. Re:So what? by Baloo+Uriza · · Score: 1

      Because, as we know, you can get signals from those carriers in parts of the country that actually shop at WalMart, and AT&T isn't the only carrier in most of these places or anything. /sarcasm

      --
      Furries make the internet go.
    9. Re:So what? by guruevi · · Score: 1

      Depends on where you live really, AT&T/T-Mobile and Sprint seem to collude to exclusively cover certain areas whereas Verizon simply doesn't want to cover it.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    10. Re:so what? by hawaiian717 · · Score: 2

      That's because you're actually buying the phone outright, rather than subsidizing the purchase cost with a more expensive long term contract. Virgin Mobile's LG Optimus V at $199 is the same as the starting point for the iPhone 4. VM's offerings are more mid-tier phones and not the high end models that get all the publicity, but they'd likely be good enough for most people.

      Let's compare the cost over a two year period, since that's the typical contract, with the Sprint version of the phone, the Optimus S, on the cheapest available plans:

      Virgin: $199.99 + $25/month = $799.99
      Sprint: $49.99 + $69.99/month = $1729.75

      You could even get Virgin's most expensive plan, $60/month for unlimited talk, text, and data, and still spend less ($1639.99) over two years.

      --
      End of Line.
    11. Re:So what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, you want to guess who's network and through what major carrier Wal-Mart gets the services it repackages and sells as its own. You guessed it... T-Mobile. The point being AT&T will own T-Mobile and impose it's pricing structure (which should read robbery without a mask and gun) with impunity upon those who were previously fleeced by AT&T and took their business to the sole remaining GSM provider. Well at least until AT&T and its lobbyists managed to succesfully navigate government approval of the deal and eliminate your ability to choose who you can use your GSM handset with.

    12. Re:So what? by contendr · · Score: 1

      Because, as we know, you can get signals from those carriers in parts of the country that actually shop at WalMart, and AT&T isn't the only carrier in most of these places or anything. /sarcasm

      Depending on what phone you get, those plans actually use the AT&T, T-Mobile and Verizon networks.

    13. Re:So what? by Mousit · · Score: 1

      As already pointed out in other comments Wal-Mart just resells T-Mobile network access.

      As for MetroPCS, it has already been reported that their "unlimited" internet is actually a subset of Internet access. They actively block streaming sites, VoIP, and other things. In their base plans they even block IM networks and the like. They use a tiered pricing system. Base for SMS, talk, some web and YouTube. Next tier, IMs and e-mails. Next tier, audio downloading/streaming, etc.

      The reality is the "deal" is no better than what the big boys are offering, and in some cases significantly worse.

    14. Re:So what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe they are reselling Tracfone, operating off of the Verizon network in most areas. However here it operates off of AT&T's network (Bluegrass Cellular has the CDMA market here...)
      But hey, I could be wrong..

  9. That's one way of putting it... by pushing-robot · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "those who can afford the least still pay by far the most."

    could perhaps more accurately be written:

    "those who typically use the least get charged the most per unit."

    or shortened to:

    "you save money if you buy in bulk."

    Of course, I'm not defending the outrageous rates—just the melodramatic language.

    --
    How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
    1. Re:That's one way of putting it... by TavisJohn · · Score: 1

      The original statement works for more than just purchasing minutes/date/items.

      Rent-A-Center caters to poor people, allowing them access to fancy furniture and TV's and such that they otherwise would not purchase because of cost... And yes you can rent to own, but if you do it that way you spend 2x or more than the retail price. A credit card would be cheaper...

      But the poor with bad credit can't get credit cards.
      The "system" is setup to keep the poor, poor. And it is currently moving to make the middle class poor.

      You call it "melodramatic language" I call it "reality".

    2. Re:That's one way of putting it... by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 2

      Rent-A-Center caters to poor people, allowing them access to fancy furniture and TV's and such that they otherwise would not purchase because of cost... And yes you can rent to own, but if you do it that way you spend 2x or more than the retail price. A credit card would be cheaper...

      When my wife was pregnant, she couldn't sleep comfortably in bed and wanted a recliner to rest in. Since we only wanted it for a couple of months, I called Rent-A-Center to see about renting one until she had the baby. It was going to cost something like $300 and we'd have to give it back afterwards. I checked the local classified ads and bought two recliners from a couple who were redecorating their house and wanted different colors, for a total of $50. Furniture rental is a sucker's game. I honestly can't imagine a single situation in which I'd ever want to use it. Even if I were on a short-term contract in another city and needed to furnish an apartment, I'd buy used stuff and re-sell it or donate it to charity when I was done with it.

      But the poor with bad credit can't get credit cards.

      If the "poor" can afford to pay $50 a month toward a credit card bill for a new TV, they can afford to save $50 a month until they have enough to buy the new TV outright - and save a buttload of interest while they're at it. You are not required to use credit cards to buy things, even large, expensive things.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    3. Re:That's one way of putting it... by operagost · · Score: 1

      It truly is reality. The reality is that the poor must understand that they have to stop acting like poor people and do what they can to move out of it: education, thrift, ingenuity. The reality for places like RaC is that they have chosen to address a market that is living outside of its means, and they are willing to take a great RISK on their investment to enter this market. If you find this exploitation, then the only fair way to address it is to simply outlaw RaC and the like-- and let the poor do without.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    4. Re:That's one way of putting it... by Baloo+Uriza · · Score: 1

      Hell, for $300/mo, you can rent a fully furnished apartment, utilities, internet, TV and housekeeping paid, from one of those extended stay motels.

      --
      Furries make the internet go.
    5. Re:That's one way of putting it... by Myopic · · Score: 1

      Why did you conflate "afford the least" with "use the least"? I don't see the connection.

    6. Re:That's one way of putting it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So why do you save money if you buy in bulk on data? It's not as if there are any shipping costs, which get divided by the number of units sold.

  10. So ... by Kohath · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    don't buy it then?

    To stop being poor, learn not to spend money you don't have on luxuries you can't afford.

    1. Re:So ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To stop being poor, learn not to spend money you don't have on luxuries you can't afford.

      You're telling them to learn different financial habits, but how does somebody learn these new habits? It's probably difficult to get a decent financial education if you're in the poor class, because who do you know that's actually successful and willing to teach you? Do poor people even know how to ask the question to begin with, or how to find the answer if they go into a library? How can they really determine what things are "luxury" or not? Maybe they're effectively forced into it one little step at a time. How do they even know that they're getting ripped off?

      I need a phone, but I can't afford or justify a monthly plan, so I'll pay as I go. Now I want to check my yahoo or facebook on the phone (whether for job search or socializing). There's only one data plan option with my phone. Five dollars per mega-whatstit isn't that much, just this once. Wow, the phone went through that five dollars of data really quickly.

    2. Re:So ... by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Actually, just the opposite is true, in a way. Let's say you want to spend money on shoes. You could buy a $40 pair of Converses. I've done this plenty, they fall apart in a year of normal work (I walk up the stairs and up a 1/3 mile hill to my office job 5 days a week). Or you could spend $150 on a pair of military issue (Matterhorn, Bellville, etc; I have Bellville 770, $145 shipped from Botach) boots, waterproof (GoreTex with breathable canvas, not to mention the leather), insulated (200g/m^2 3M Thinsulate), made of quality leather that you can spend 5 bucks a year to maintain (black leather obviously means shoe shine, but rough leather treatments exist too). They'll last you 10 years maybe, maybe more, if you're walking in them a lot (homeless, bike/walk to work, etc), and keep your feet warm, protected, and dry.

      More often you see people spending money on shit like Uggs ($150) or Reeboks($100), funny enough these don't hold up to heavy-duty use. The soles fell off my Reeboks after a year! They're hollow, after they wear a little the glue starts giving out and you start getting holes and such and find out there's a large honeycomb structure inside. Uggs don't hold up to anything, at all, and they directly tell you this (not for "heavy walking" or rain or snow). Despite that, poor people buy 'em.

      My mom has gone through ... who knows how many $50-$80 juice machines. They break in a year under daily use, sometimes less. I suggested a $200 juice machine of better quality, but the Wal-Mart special is a favorite and shelling out so much money over and over seems like a deal to them. It's odd because they had an Oster Regency kitchen center for like 25 years before the motor wore down, which should have hammered the "Buy Better Shit" thing in.

      In some cases the ROI is immediate: socks at $8/8 pair vs (decent, not overpriced quality-fucked designer!) $20/3 pair, the $8 ones will wear down QUICK under normal use and even faster under strained use, getting holes and in general providing no cushion after just weeks; I still have 3 year old pairs of socks that are just now starting to thin out, just a bit, but they still provide cushion and they're long discolored. In other cases, the ROI is slow: appliances that last a year or two, versus decades-lived ones that cost two or three times as much.

      It all adds up. That cheap-ass washing machine you bought that needs constant repair after one year and replacement after five is you paying for it 3 times in 5 years; buy one that costs twice as much instead and lasts a decade. Stop buying crap you don't need, just for a little while; buy yourself a $100 chef's knife or a Wii or a luxury couch later, after you've saved up a little money from not having to replace/repair shit constantly. Yes it's hard to save up to get out of the consumerist society, but once you've made that first little victory it becomes that little bit easier. You did it once, do it again... and again... and again, until you get out of that damned hole and find some sunshine.

    3. Re:So ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This, agree 100%. If you *need* internet and a phone, get a landline and ride your bike to the library. But if the poor want to keep spending their money on shit they don't need, more power to them. Thats the power of free choice and I for one applaud it. As for me, I'll stay within my means and not be in debt or ruin my credit.

    4. Re:So ... by Naturalis+Philosopho · · Score: 1

      ~Stop talking sense man! People might hear you and learn that they can live without the latest gadgets, or even realize that they don't need the highest levels of all services available to them. If that happens their bank accounts might fill up, their anxiety might go down, and they won't have to use shopping/services as a security blanket in their unfulfilled lives. Stop trying to undo 100 years of marketing already!~

      And to whoever modded you off-topic, forget them. The hardest thing about railing against corporations which screw us: learning that it's not rape when we're helping them.

    5. Re:So ... by Duradin · · Score: 1

      A modern example of the Sam Vimes "Boots" Theory of Economic Injustice and touching on the Ramkin extension, well done.

    6. Re:So ... by vlm · · Score: 1

      Summarizes to "I'm not rich enough to shop at Walmart". Ever buy a set of drill bits from China, and have them literally unwind themselves? Been there, seen that. Suddenly, Enco and McMaster are the cheapest way to drill holes.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    7. Re:So ... by eldepeche · · Score: 1

      And if you can't afford to live near a library, fuck you!

      How about don't tell the poor what they need and don't need?

    8. Re:So ... by Kohath · · Score: 1

      And if you can't afford to live near a library, fuck you!

      If you can't go to the library, go over to a friend's house.

      How about don't tell the poor what they need and don't need?

      Beggars can't be choosers.

    9. Re:So ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll stop telling the poor what they need and don't need when they stop expecting me to pay for it.

    10. Re:So ... by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      I know of the "sam vimes boot" theory but I must have missed the "ramkin extension" care to fill me on on what that was.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    11. Re:So ... by Duradin · · Score: 1

      That Sybil Ramkin could live twice as comfortably on half the money that Vimes spent because she was rich.

    12. Re:So ... by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Craftsman is a good buy. It's re-branded from some other tool maker I don't know; someone told me once, but also assured me that said tool maker is well known for making good tools. With Craftsman, you buy a wrench and what you get is forged steel instead of stamped; this means the steel flexes better and springs back to its proper shape, rather than snapping off under extreme torque or deforming permanently. All their tools are of this type of quality; they're also of a price absolutely off the scale of Harbor Freight, but if you plan to use a Harbor Freight tool more than once then buy two.

    13. Re:So ... by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      It is my belief that everybody has a little flex. We all get lazy, we all buy fast food, it's never just the dollar menu. Shoes happen to be something the homeless generally wear through and generally buy a lot: you see them with $80 Nikes because the sole on a $40 pair of Converse All-Stars is a Vibram sole that outlasts the shoe by about 10 years, while the shoe itself starts to wear out after a month of that kind of life style. The Nikes actually last several months, a year at best. If they suffered a little longer between buys, with shoes that are barely holding up but at least somewhat protect the feet (better than being barefoot), they could get a $150 pair of military boots and be done with it. Sure that's $80/year maybe, but that's a hell of a lot of money to these people.

      That's an extreme example. People who can actually (barely) make their rent are less extreme, and have other options; but it still applies. They can dig themselves out into a comfortable but poor lifestyle; it's unfortunately a daily struggle, in the same way you struggle to become fantastically wealthy. It's not so bad, though: when they actually reach goals like that, it doesn't really matter that it's the goal of "buying a washing machine that won't break in 2 years" or whatever. One burden is gone, and they have claimed victory by their own hand; it's the same feeling you get when you pay off your $30,000 car and decide never to go into car debt like that again.

      Wealth is really a factor of person. I have a $150 Shun Premier Santoku, an excellent knife with a VG-10 steel core exposed at the blade and stainless cladding along the body, hand-hammered and hand-forged. A $40 Victorinox is also an excellent knife, will hold its edge for months, will take a new edge easily, and generally will do the same job. If a poor person buys a good Victorinox chef's knife, learns to use it and keep it well maintained, and cooks much at home, they will have satisfaction of person (by the validation of cooking well, daily) without buying expensive $1000 23 piece knife sets. They will also save money preparing their own food.

      I bought a $450 bicycle and have been upgrading parts. It's a hybrid road bike (i.e. city bike) with no suspension, so I added a $150 seat suspension and am putting on a $150 leather seat. For the $1000 that went in, I can get to work in 60 minutes instead of 40, 8 miles away. It's cheaper on gas, cheaper than a car (I have one of those too), and more demanding of me personally than of my wallet. You can finance bicycles too, in fact the shop I went to would finance anything above $500 total purchase with 0% interest for 6 months. If a poor person works at like McDonalds or something, probably 3 miles away, he can bike there and lock his bike up (or even bring it inside). Or he can find a bus pass, or (most likely) buy a $2000 used car that he has no idea how to maintain and that breaks so often that he's dumping $500 in every 3-4 months to keep it running, plus insurance. If lifestyle permits, then buying an expensive bicycle is cheaper than buying a more expensive car, and will keep you healthy.

      And there is the Ramkin Extension again, isn't it? A $1000 bicycle, holy shit are you rich? Yet these poor fuckers will turn around and buy a $2000, $5000, etc used car that costs an assload to maintain because they have no idea how to shop for or maintain a car--unless their shit-pay job is being a mechanic, in which case they're likely doing extremely well buying $1000 cars that they throw another $1500 into and make run for 5-8 years, and feel quite satisfied and proud as they drive down the street (you've seen these people, they know what they did and it feels good 'cause they did it).

      Of note, my bike won't pay for itself; I ride it to work 2 days a week. If I get more endurance maybe I'll do it daily; it'll take roughly 160 total days of bike instead of car to make back the $1000 (completely in fuel costs) I spent on the bike, and I've currently logged 2. But then, I'll also be in much better shape, and have the ability to handle a bicycle well.

    14. Re:So ... by eldepeche · · Score: 1

      I'll make sure to say that when I see someone outside your door begging for an iPhone. It's like, you can make do with a Droid Incredible, dude!

    15. Re:So ... by eldepeche · · Score: 1

      Nobody asked you to pay for anything. I just asked you to stop being a dickhead about it, but you obviously didn't hear me.

  11. Looking out for the consumer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I, for one, applaud AT&T's 90% cut in price. Moar kool-aid please. This stuff is delicious!

  12. so what? by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

    Virgin Mobile has two Android phones which get you unlimited data for $25/month. It's far and away the cheapest smart phone data plan in the US. Who cares what T does when we have VM?

    --
    A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
  13. Wow! Just Wow! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here in New Zealand where we usually get the rough end of the stick with regards to pricing etc. we actually only pay $20 for 1GB of 3G data on "PrePay" (what you would know as "no contract") with a local operator 2degrees - http://www.2degreesmobile.co.nz/prepay/mobilebroadband

    1. Re:Wow! Just Wow! by DrXym · · Score: 1
      Three in the UK & Ireland has reasonable rates too. 7.5GB monthly costs €25 prepay, or you get 15GB for €20 under contract. Inclusive of VAT. Roaming is same price too to other 3 networks.

      I have to wonder what is wrong with the US. Not that Europe is perfect, the roaming rates for most data plans is criminal.

  14. AT&T Seeking to Destroy the Internet by paulsnx2 · · Score: 2

    The Internet is supposed to be only for looking at web pages, no access to actual video or audio content. Want to play a multi-user game? Ha! Not if significant network traffic is required!

    250 GB limits on their AT&T U-verse connection (does not apply to your cable subscription). Some have reported upwards of 4000% errors on their data meter (when AT&T's numbers are compared to those collected by DD-WRT routers).

    2 GB limits on their data plans for smart phones.

    Obviously they already prevent any pre-paid access to the Internet.

    I never did hear if they ever disabled the fiber optic splitter they installed so all their traffic went directly to the NSA.

    Seriously, these guys are the biggest threats to the Internet yet.

    1. Re:AT&T Seeking to Destroy the Internet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I never did hear if they ever disabled the fiber optic splitter they installed so all their traffic went directly to the NSA."

      Let me fix this for you...

      "And I never will hear if they ever disabled the fiber optic splitter they installed so all their traffic went directly to the NSA."

      There fixed that for you.

      Just like you would have never heard of the existence of the fibre optic splitter if someone had not retired from AT&T who had been aware of the existence of such a device and had enough financial security to blow the whistle in the first place. Add to this the bill passed last year I believe it was that granted telco's immunity from prosecution effectively eliminating an legal consequences to those responsible for assisting in wiretapping America and Americans.

  15. Two year contracts are required? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What's sad is that products like the GoPhone target the poor and those living paycheck to paycheck. Because they can't commit to two-year contracts, they pay a lot more for the services than their better-off counterparts. Telecom is hardly the only example of that; banking and credit are other critical areas of daily life where the poor pay more to get less.

    Buy a phone at full retail price and sign up for month to month service. Two year contracts are basically just loans so little Timmy can get a shiney iphone to break at a discount. If you are a bit strapped for cash, buy a prepaid phone and use that with a regular plan. Screw your credit up so bad that you can't afford a deposit on service? Well, who's fault is that? I'm only sympathetic to those just getting started who don't have credit histories.

    ;lkj

    1. Re:Two year contracts are required? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is, when I buy the device outright, I don't get a break on the monthly service fees. So what's the point?

      Only T-Mobile offers a break on monthly charges. No one else does.

    2. Re:Two year contracts are required? by yeshuawatso · · Score: 1

      Screw your credit up so bad that you can't afford a deposit on service? Well, who's fault is that? I'm only sympathetic to those just getting started who don't have credit histories.

      Obviously, you've never been a victim of identify fraud, and you also ignore the fact that the poor exploit their children's clean credit slate, creating a cycle that's hard to break. I've seen a numerous times a family rack up an electric bill or gas bill during the winter, couldn't afford to pay it, have the service disconnected and the bill applied to the parent's credit, only to re-open the account under the minor's credit. To make matters worse, getting fraudulent things off your credit takes a lot of time, energy, money, and effort that the poor simply can't afford to waste, so they keep the cycle going. Now data access, I'll admit, is a luxury; however, more and more transactions are occurring online because it's cheaper to do business via the internet than via a brick-and-mortar store, so if one is to progress in society, they're going to be at a disadvantage than those who don't have such high costs, when a lack of internet exists. It's not that it's impossible to NOT be poor, it's just VERY DIFFICULT to pull yourself out poverty, especially if it's where you started.

  16. Not a necessity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The poster makes an issue of pay as you go being what the poor and people living paycheck to paycheck use.
    But for that to be a real issue cell phones and data access would need to be considered a necessity and it is not,
    it is a convenience.

  17. Oh Plah-Ease! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    And given that pay-as-you-go pricing is what the poor and people living paycheck to paycheck use, the result is those who can afford the least still pay by far the most."

    Anyone who agrees to AT&T's contract is a moron - or any cell phone provider in the US for that matter.

    Those contracts are soooo one sided that the mafia are looking into getting into the cell phone business but they wont because they're afraid of the other providers.

    I for one refuse to have a cell phone in my name. When the US cel carriers start being fair to the consumer, then and only then will I consider getting one.

    Pay as you go?!? Please! They suck even worse!

    US cell carriers are scum - there are no exceptions.

  18. Virgin Mobile USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Virgin Mobile USA (part of Sprint) has plan with unlimited data, text and 300 minutes a month prepaid for only $25/month.

  19. A little misleading by Boycott+BMG · · Score: 2
    From the press release http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pid=19623&cdvn=news&newsarticleid=31797&mapcode=consumer%7Cmobile-devices

    NEW: $25 FOR 500MB $5 for 10MB (previously $4.99 for 1MB) $15 for 100MB (previously $19.99)

    It is only $500/GB if someone were to sip 10MB at a time. Although the price for the best deal ($50/GB) is still way higher than those on contract.

    1. Re:A little misleading by shadowrat · · Score: 1

      yeah. but a title that says people pay more per unit when they commit to buying less at a time is hardly exciting. that applies to canned peas.

  20. This is not about the poor but tourists. by aristotle-dude · · Score: 1

    The problem with pay as you go data in the US and Canada is that tourists visiting have to pay through the nose whether they decide to roam or try to go "pay as you go" during their short trip.

    It would be much better if the AT&T and the HSPA carriers in Canada offers day passes for tourists or even some sort of week pass at a reasonable price with a "rental" sim like you can get in Japan.

    --
    Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
  21. Smartphones for the poor? by davev2.0 · · Score: 0

    Don't the poor have better things to do with their money than paying for a smart phone and its associated data plan? You know, things like food, and shelter?

  22. units by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The units are a bit deceptive. We pay $15/250MB data with one-month expiry. If you actually used a GB/month, you'd pay the $35/2GB rate my parents in law pay. (Both prepaid rates, however, not for smart phones, because that's more expensive. Duh, why would you pay the rate intended for the rich guy who doesn't care about his phone bill and just occasionally uses data on his fancy phone he bought to impress his boss?)

    That's what I would call pretty expensive, and it's probably a dumb marketing move by AT&T, but putting $/GB units on the most expensive / least data prepaid option is pretty deceptive when actual GB/month data rates are orders of magnitude smaller. Kind of like saying the poorest people can't afford steak, they have to eat hot dogs, and then berating a street hot dog vendor in an upscale neighborhood for their exorbitant prices.

    A'la carte prices for small quantities are much higher than bulk rates. Poor people can't afford to buy a'la carte. Film at eleven.

  23. Not to worry.... by v(*_*)vvvv · · Score: 2

    T-Mobile is way cheaper... oh wait...

  24. Willingness to pay by captaindomon · · Score: 1

    Remember that market prices are not set based on cost. They are set based on willingness to pay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willingness_to_pay). All large corporations set their prices this way, based on economic and business theory.

    --
    Just because I can hook a shark from a boat, I do no offer to wrestle it in the water.
    1. Re:Willingness to pay by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes and no. Yes in that willingness to pay is the proximate criterion on which prices are set. No in that one of the major determinants of somebody's willingness to pay is what other providers of similar or identical commodities are charging. In reasonably competitive markets, price competition between approximately equivalent providers of a given good or service means that, in the end, willingness to pay is approximately equal to the lowest price, which is based on the cost structure of the outfit providing that price.

      In hilariously non-competitive markets, of course, willingness to pay and cost are more or less completely decoupled. The same is true for 'ahead of their time' products(where everbody's cost is much higher than anybody's willingness to pay, so the product stays in the lab). In a competitive market for a mature product, though, willingness to pay and cost are fairly closely related.

    2. Re:Willingness to pay by captaindomon · · Score: 1

      Touché. Seriously, though- thank you for an insightful post base on some real economic theory instead of inflammatory rhetoric. Mod parent up.

      --
      Just because I can hook a shark from a boat, I do no offer to wrestle it in the water.
  25. Another way to look at the cell industry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm really not sure why people still do business with these companies.
    At one point in time, a businesses actually CARED about their image, and quality of services.
    Somewhere along the line, companies shifted gears and started being driven by levels of financial interest.
    While the financial well-being of a company is important, I would argue that the integrity, direction, and quality of product is just as important.

    In respect to this view, why are things so lopsided on the financial side?
    I would guess to assume that we live in business world that is bankrupt, from at minimum an integrity point of view.
    I would have never guessed that any functional business could race to the bottom, in terms of customer satisfaction, product, and quality....

    Everyone has choices, at least those of us in the Northern Hemisphere...
    Perhaps society needs to look inward, and decide what is most important to ourselves, as consumers. Not everyone has to ride the biggest, fastest, cheapest bandwagon.

    _YMMV

    .

    1. Re:Another way to look at the cell industry... by Thexare+Blademoon · · Score: 1

      I'm really not sure why people still do business with these companies.

      Because almost every option is equally bad.

    2. Re:Another way to look at the cell industry... by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      It's very difficult to measure quality of a product before purchase so we have to rely on reputation.

      Unfortunately this means the benifit to a company of reducting cost/quality is immediate and the cost is years down the line. This makes it very tempting for companies to reduce quality either to get through bad times or just plain to make their figures look good this quarter so the CEO gets his bonus. Further big retailers (who don't really care about their suppliers long term) are constantly trying to push suppliers to reduce prices.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  26. Non Sequitur Alert by xx_chris · · Score: 1

    Nope. It isn't a question of credit; it's a question of payment and price. If the unwashed poor have bad credit and they pay up front with their Go Phone account then they should pay the same rate as anyone else since ATT is incurring no risk by taking their money ahead of time. Or perhaps given the fact that they are prepaying and in fact extending credit to ATT maybe they should pay a little less. Or you could just rip off the poor. You could do that.

  27. GoPhone Market by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The GoPhone does not really target the low income market, there are things like Boost for 50/60 a month unlimited everything. Anyone who actually uses their phone will burn through that much at least with prepaid cards in a given month. It's sorta like a step up from tracphone, something you give as an emergency phone or something to less chatty older folk. Also the plans are somewhat popular for tourists, since it is a pre paid GSM provider instead of a CDMA or iDEN provider. It allows them to use their own phone and (assuming the store you go to will do it, some are asshats and don't) just purchase a SIM Card. In the past T-Mobile was somewhat competitive with GoPhone for that market, but about a year ago they switched more to a servicing low income and bad credit model with the shift to month to month no contract plans. (I forget the specific name they used for it, but basically you did not get a full subsidy on the phone up front, instead you got a partial subsidy and then pay 1/10 the remaining balance over the next 10 months along with your monthly service bill.)

    Also -- take a look @ the GoPhone phones, they're friggen ancient old Samsung clamshells with low resolution screens anceint WEP browsers, and in my opinion no real easy way to generate a GB of traffic. This punishes the fools who use a smartphone with gophones pay as you go.

    It should also be noted that they offer Pick Your Plan or some crap, which would be somewhat better for a data customer, but really prepaid AT&T is not the way to go if you want to use data on your phone for any real reason besides downloading ringtones and getting box scores from ESPN.

  28. AT&T "Lowers" Data Access To Just $500/GB by Hermanas · · Score: 1

    There, fixed that for you.

    In your defense, I think everyone read that word with a sarcastic tone of voice anyway. $500/GB is /lower/ ? Surely you must be joking.

  29. Poor people's pricing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And given that pay-as-you-go pricing is what the poor and people living paycheck to paycheck use, the result is those who can afford the least still pay by far the most.

    So what? It's capitalism! If you can gut the poor (who're probably just lazy, anyway) and make some profit, this isn't just the way it is, it's good and right. Besides, these prices can't be too high. If they were, somebody else would offer lower prices. Didn't anybody teach you about the invisible hand of the free market?

    The only thing I see wrong here is that we're unfairly taxing these juggernauts that contribute so much to society. What would we do if Atlas shrugged and decided to not offer these $500/GB plans to us plebs anymore? We really need to show AT&T some love, people. After all, people exist for corporations, not the other way around.

  30. Poor Folks? by d6 · · Score: 1

    >>pay-as-you-go pricing is what the poor and people living paycheck to paycheck use

    Perhaps Canada is different as far as the efficiency of pay as you go pricing levels (I doubt it),
    but I've had a pay-as-you-go phone for years. I buy my phones up front. No contract & pay as I go.
    It suits my usage patterns much better than a plan.

    And yeah, the data rates are so wrong I can't wrap my head around it. No argument there.

  31. I am not poor, but I choose prepaid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    My usage is infrequent and much cheaper with prepaid than with a subscription.

    Overseas, I could use prepaid data too: enabling flat-rate data for a period of a day, a week, or a month would deduct from my balance exactly the same cost as post-paid subscription amortized over that period. There was no cost penalty for using prepaid. I did this because my usual data use was to use my work and home Internet connections, but I would enable mobile data on the occasion where I could not, e.g. due to travel or an Internet outage.

    This is simply a restricted market in the US, where they are trying to force users to subscribe and pay for service they don't use. All of their pricing structures have the same bundling tricks which force you to pay for things you don't want, in order to get what you do. A competitive market would cause these commodities to be sold unbundled, and the big networks are using monopoly power to avoid that. They don't want to have to compete, as they have dreams of subscriber revenue dancing in their heads.

  32. Well if They Didn't Suck .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    given that pay-as-you-go pricing is what the poor and people living paycheck to paycheck use, the result is those who can afford the least still pay by far the most.

    Blah, blah, blah. Let them eat gigabytes. If they didn't suck, they would have a job. If they had a job, they would actually need gigabytes of bandwidth.

  33. Fundamental by BabyDuckHat · · Score: 2

    "...those who can afford the least still pay by far the most."

    That's true almost everywhere in Capitalism.

    1. Re:Fundamental by shadowrat · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Indeed. I'm glad i can afford to buy a year's supply of toilet paper at Sam's Club. If i had to buy each pack of 4 rolls individually, i'm certain the price per gigawipe would increase tenfold!

    2. Re:Fundamental by Americium · · Score: 1

      No it's true wherever there isn't Capitalism. Mass production and competition drove prices for food, energy, and almost every product down. I didn't see Walmart increasing prices to succeed.

      In uncompetitive markets, like this one, is where you see abuse. This is where regulation makes sense. Look what happened to long distance prices after AT&T was broken up.

    3. Re:Fundamental by Myopic · · Score: 1

      "Afford the least" doesn't mean "use the least".

      But yeah, I buy those gigantic toilet-paper cubes at Costco.

    4. Re:Fundamental by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. When was the last time your *income* related to how much you had to pay for something? (Besides taxes). AT&T charges the same price to anyone with the same plan.

      Charging more, or not having access to cheaper plans based on a *credit report* is completely different. You can be poor and have a credit score that doesn't suck.

      The problem isnt capitalsim, its lack of competition. If the FCC didn't sell off spectrum, if it was open for anyone to setup a 2 bit cell company, then maybe ATT would have to compete with mcuh lower plans and be forced by the market to change things. But the problem is we *WANT* the things that come along with big companies running cell networks... like lots of techs running around making sure the damn thing stays up (most of the time), and a tech support number to call... and stores all over to go to. And we dont want chaos in the public airwaves and everyone jamming everyone else. So its a trade off. Maybe its not balanced correctly at the moment, but its for damned sure not capitalism that is breaking it.

  34. You and others elitists like you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Have no idea what you are talking about and I would like to know who you think you are to say what "poor" people should and shouldn't be spending their money on?

    I was poor for a while after being laid off. I had to look for work and guess how I did it, I used the internet.

    You might say "go to the library" but where I lived there was no public transportation so I hooked my pc to my blackberry and submitted my resume ...online. I searched for companies who were hiring...online, I filled out my unemployment worksheet every week...online. I paid my electric bill...online.

    The point is, that it's not up to you elitist jackasses to say who should be spending money on what. Back then data access was more of a necessity than it is for me today. You snobs who have never had to do without just mind your own business how other spend their own money,

  35. Lowers? by angiasaa · · Score: 1

    Here in India, you pay $2.45 for a 1GB chunk. Larger chunks, cost even less. 5GB goes for just over $6!! Pay-as-you-go is all fine if one sticks to small data transfers, but in the long run, is certainly not worth it. Works out to many times the cost.

    I understand that fewer players in the market tends to resist cost reduction, but seriously, $500 per GB is ridiculous, right?
    What am I missing here?

    --
    Geekism is your _only_ God!
    1. Re:Lowers? by Bad_Feeling · · Score: 1

      Here in India, you pay $2.45 for a 1GB chunk. Larger chunks, cost even less. 5GB goes for just over $6!! Pay-as-you-go is all fine if one sticks to small data transfers, but in the long run, is certainly not worth it. Works out to many times the cost.

      I understand that fewer players in the market tends to resist cost reduction, but seriously, $500 per GB is ridiculous, right? What am I missing here?

      Thats all well and good but how much does the average Indian make in a day? $5?

      --
      Disclaimer: On the other hand, I am kind of a psycho...
    2. Re:Lowers? by angiasaa · · Score: 1

      Well, the average data-accessing Indian would earn between $17 and $52 a day. That's about about 80% - 85% of the mobile population in cities with 3G. And even so, those clocking data downloads in GB's is a much smaller number.

      All that said, I've been thinking.. Maybe it's a combination of the sheer numbers of users and competition between providers that allows Indian providers to keep the rates so low.. With 80,000 to 130,000 new registrations a day (for data connections), I suppose the numbers do kind of pile up.

      Damn, we're overpopulated. :|

      --
      Geekism is your _only_ God!
  36. Does it expire? by JSBiff · · Score: 1

    I suspect that $50/GB is really not that terrible, comparatively, with month-to-month plans, if it doesn't expire and you can actually use the entire GB you payed for.

    I say that, because I'm pretty sure that most folks on month-to-month plants don't really use as much bandwidth as they're paying for every month, and in the end, most of the contract folks are paying at least $50/GB too.

  37. compare to the rest of the world by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just got back from an extended international trip and I was startled how expensive GoPhone is compared to prepaid plans from other countries. I use around 200mb of bandwidth on my iPhone for normal usage. Here's an example of what a month of service costs in other countries:

    AT&T GoPhone: $75 for 200mb + unlimited calls (there's no other package for data)
    Airtel India: $2 for 2gb
    China Mobile: $12 for 4x50mb
    TrueMove Thailand: $12 for 500mb 3g
    Orange Jordan: $7 for 200mb 3g

    India and China do not have 3g service. Still, the huge difference in prices has left me scratching my head.

  38. US Cellular Customers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What's ATT's pricing got to do with US Cellular Customers?

    I'm a US Cellular customer and although, we at least have a 5GB/month cap, instead of the 2GB/month that other carriers impose, but we still have to pay $30/month for data on our Android smartphones, with $0.25/MB if we go over the 5GB cap, with a max monetary cap of $200/month for exceeding the data plan quota. If we tether, we have to pay an additional $25/month on top of the data plan.

  39. Won't someone please think of the sensors??! by warmflatsprite · · Score: 1

    Now, I think these prices are absolutely still outrageous, but does this mean that they're also willing to drop machine-to-machine (web-connected sensors) rates by 90% as well? Christ I hope so...

    1. Re:Won't someone please think of the sensors??! by warmflatsprite · · Score: 1

      For those not in the know, mobile sensors/control devices typically only use a few MB of data transfer a month and they get charged out of their cable glands for it...

  40. 6-figure Virgin Mobile pay-as-you-go customer by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 1

    I'm a 6-figure making Virgin Mobile pay-as-you-go (month to month fixed price) customer. I lay out $25/mo for an unlimited data plan and 300 voice minutes. I use the data plan like a rented mule - voice only occasionally.

    Only chumps pay more. Cell phone contracts are for the weak-of-mind who think that their modern-day beeper is some kind of status symbol.

    1. Re:6-figure Virgin Mobile pay-as-you-go customer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm a 6-figure making Virgin Mobile pay-as-you-go (month to month fixed price) customer. I lay out $25/mo for an unlimited data plan and 300 voice minutes. I use the data plan like a rented mule - voice only occasionally.

      Only chumps pay more. Cell phone contracts are for the weak-of-mind who think that their modern-day beeper is some kind of status symbol.

      You must be a hit with the ladies.

    2. Re:6-figure Virgin Mobile pay-as-you-go customer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have to back Virgin Mobile. I am a former AT&T customer; I think the pay as you go with AT&T may actually be getting the better deal. In the last 24 monthes, I only had 4 that were correct; typically they had over $200 in data charges. When I pointed out I had internet access blocked, they would accuse me of unblocking it, using the internet, and then reblocking.

      While I had other pre-paid carriers, Virgin Mobile was the first to offer phones running Android. Both my wife and I are quite happy with them. Honestly, the coverage isn't as good and I haven't been able to get navigation to work, but its still an excellent deal.

    3. Re:6-figure Virgin Mobile pay-as-you-go customer by arelas · · Score: 1

      Cell phone contracts are for the weak-of-mind who think that their modern-day beeper is some kind of status symbol.

      Elite much?

  41. Benefitting from mistakes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If those carriers had any shred of conscience or their customers were intelligent enough to demand this by market force, they'd introduce upper limits on cost, after which the subscription transforms into a low bandwidth flatrate...

  42. Mobile data access for the poor? by operagost · · Score: 1

    The poor need mobile data access? I assume that the rich elite in government will install this mandate, while the middle class pays for it.

    --

    Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    1. Re:Mobile data access for the poor? by swb · · Score: 1

      When our city passed the plan to have wireless installed city-wide, I called my council member to complain about it.

      I asked her why the city needed to subsidize this plan (the gimmick was that the wifi provider would also provide private wifi for city purposes like cop cars, building inspectors, etc) when there was already cable or DSL available citywide.

      She told me that they wanted to make internet access available inexpensively for the poor. When I asked her how she was going to make the computers used to access the internet available to the poor, the line went silent.

    2. Re:Mobile data access for the poor? by operagost · · Score: 1

      Obama just talked about in his terrible speech about the poor buying housing. Why are the poor buying houses? You don't buy expensive liabilities when you're poor! If you buy anything expensive, you buy an investment property that will make money. It's stupid to take on risk for something that isn't even capable of improving your position. I don't want the poor homeless, but they shouldn't be homeowners! That's what renting is for.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  43. No news here... by sudden.zero · · Score: 1

    AT&Terrible has always sucked! This just goes to demonstrait how much they suck! I am mad as he|_|_ that they are trying to buy t-mobile. I left AT&T for t-mobile because of their terrible pricing and customer service. T-Mobile has competive pricing and the highest customer service rating in the industry hands down. If they succeed in purchasing T-Mobile I will leave and I can assure them that a lot of the customers like me will. T-Mobile's unlimited plan that includes every phone (land lines and cellular), data and text is only $90 a month in my area which is a little more than Sprint but it includes landlines. I know that plan will all go away if AT&T gets their way and that should not be allowed. It clearly will stiffle competition!

  44. T-Mobile is only $50/gb on prepaid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great...T-Mobile offers $1.49 web day pass on their pre-paid phones where you get 30mb over a 24 hours. Comes out to $50/gb. Guess that will change when AT&T buys them out.

  45. hey, its capitalism by Fujisawa+Sensei · · Score: 2

    Hey that's capitalism for you.

    You don't like what you're being charged go elsewhere because to regulate what companies can charge is Marxism.

    Or so I've been told by the libertarians, tea baggers, and republicans.

    --
    If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
    1. Re:hey, its capitalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You wish it was Capitalism. The system is rigged. It's 'Price fixing', and it is not called Marxism, it is called illegal.

    2. Re:hey, its capitalism by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      You say that like there's something wrong with Marxism. What's the big deal? If there was something wrong with Marxism, then certainly it wouldn't be taught at universities or be so beloved of our government officials.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    3. Re:hey, its capitalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      After watching socialists and communists murder millions of citizens in the 20th century, we've rejected the notion that statists like you should control anything.

    4. Re:hey, its capitalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's only capitalism if there's a free market. The last time I checked, air waves were heavily regulated and there are significant barriers to entry.

      On a sidenote, and to think ATT wouldn't have been able to pull this all off if it wasn't for the iPhone customer base...

    5. Re:hey, its capitalism by Fujisawa+Sensei · · Score: 1

      I haven't seen any socialist regemes like that murder millions. I've seen right wing fascists, calling themselves socialists murder millions.

      In fact one of your great leaders, Pat Buchanan used to march in a NAZI uniform.

      Your favorite villains spoke from the left, but their behavior was executed from the right. That's why your leaders like Pat Buchanan wore the uniform.

      --
      If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
    6. Re:hey, its capitalism by Fujisawa+Sensei · · Score: 1

      There is nothing wrong with price fixing in capitalism as long as it isn't done by the government.

      In a capitalistic society companies are free to sell their product at whatever price they can.

      --
      If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
    7. Re:hey, its capitalism by Fujisawa+Sensei · · Score: 1

      You haven't been listening the Libertarian Prophets: Beck and Palin have you?

      --
      If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
    8. Re:hey, its capitalism by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      Uh, no. As a matter of fact, I live outside the United States. What's wrong with Marxism, though? I'm drawing a blank here.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    9. Re:hey, its capitalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Getting the government to eliminate competition is the problem.

    10. Re:hey, its capitalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually it is and that's because regulation is not one way. Go ahead regulate everybody in sight. Just don't be surprised when the same thing happens to you. Now you understand why we don't want it. Sure i can give you service for free! Tuesdays from 5:30am to 6:00am. All regulation comes with compromise. You can't demand everyone conform to your rules for your own benefit. Oh and the "go elsewhere" argument is used by Liberals and Conservatives anytime any libertarian voices his opinion, not the other way around.

    11. Re:hey, its capitalism by sjames · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, we have corporatism. If you don't like the price, go somewhere else until the behemoth buys them and socks it to you again using public commons the whole time.

  46. You are misinterpreting the data plans by brainzach · · Score: 1

    Many are looking at the pricing plans from the wrong perspective. AT&T's goal isn't to charge per bandwidth. They want to split the users into groups based on their intended usage, then charge the perceived value to each group.

    $5 for 10 MB targets people with dumb phones who just need simple information like sport scores

    $15 for 100 MB is for smart phone users who use it mostly for email

    $25 for 500 MB is for smart phone users who casually surf the web

    If you want to use more data, AT&T prefers you to get on a post paid plan

    You can still argue that the prices are too high, but there is some reasoning to AT&T's pricing model.

  47. There must be some mistake by McTickles · · Score: 0

    500 USD for 1 gigabyte?

    This has to be an april fool's.
    I can't believe Americans pay that much for data...

  48. technology addiction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A smart phone is not a necessity of life, even for most that work in the tech world. It is primarily a frivolous luxury that ultimately probably degrades the quality of most people's existence rather than enhances it. I'm most certainly saddened by the amazing amount of disconnection it has caused in human interaction, as I stand among people texting, chatting, etc., no matter what they are doing. It removes them from the world they are in, and it is a cold disconnection of humanity that bothers me.

    And, besides, almost anybody that requires a prepaid plan falls into one of two categories:

    1) They are performing illegal activities i.e., a drug dealer, pimp, or hitman.
    2) They have shitty credit for never paying any of their bills

    Either way, I don't give a fuck.

  49. Clear 4g by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm on a Clear Spot, 4g only its $40/month, no extra fees. only problem is only in major cities. Ping time is a little slow 30-200ms, usually in the 60-140ms range DL and UL speeds are good. dl speeds are 3-10mbps (1MB/sec dl) and .03- 1mbps ul. usually 5mbps and .9mbps. Clear also offers a 3g/4g mifi for about $55/mo, pre paid or contract. I got my hardware free at BB and use prepaid.
    I don't work for either of these places. I don't even work- recession.

  50. You've made a slight typo by gweilo8888 · · Score: 1

    "Has anyone else noticed that they are all actually the same industry. The cheap and easy transference of data..."

    You've made an ever so slight typo. I think you were trying to say "expensive and intentionally obfuscated".

    1. Re:You've made a slight typo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the GP meant the reality of data transfer, as opposed to the way these companies sell it to their customers.

    2. Re:You've made a slight typo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *whoosh*

  51. And we're paying them Rural Broadband money why? by Baloo+Uriza · · Score: 1

    Keep in mind that they charge these rates even in areas where AT&T Wireless is the /only/ internet provider, such as most of rural Oklahoma and Kansas, and they receive federal money under the FCC's rural broadband program to provide it. Coincidentally, everyone who had an unlimited plan in those areas where AT&T is receiving rural broadband money got booted off and weren't told about this until receiving five-figure data bills.

    --
    Furries make the internet go.
  52. LOL by zmooc · · Score: 1

    LOL. I pay â5.99 / month for an unlimited data plan:P WTF is this shit.

    --
    0x or or snor perron?!
    1. Re:LOL by zmooc · · Score: 1

      LOL. I type euro symbol for great justice and get Ã:P WTF is this shit.

      --
      0x or or snor perron?!
    2. Re:LOL by zmooc · · Score: 1

      LOL. I type â and get Ãf:P WTF is this shit.

      --
      0x or or snor perron?!
    3. Re:LOL by zmooc · · Score: 1

      LOL. I type lot of irrelevant comments and do not get modded down. WTF is this shit.

      --
      0x or or snor perron?!
  53. Fascinating.. by Seth+Kriticos · · Score: 1

    I live in central Europe and my smart-phone has a pre-paid card with a 1GB data option enabled for 10 EUR (~14 USD) a month.

    That's by far enough for e-mail chat and the occasional map. And I can get rid of it anytime I want (just don't have to extend it for the next month).

    I'm always fascinated to hear the comparison from the new world.

    1. Re:Fascinating.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I live in central Europe and my smart-phone has a pre-paid card with a 1GB data option enabled for 10 EUR (~14 USD) a month.

      That's by far enough for e-mail chat and the occasional map. And I can get rid of it anytime I want (just don't have to extend it for the next month).

      I'm always fascinated to hear the comparison from the new world.

      In Southern Europe, many people want pre-paid since if they have a "plan" they pay more taxes, and nobody likes to commit to one provider--it's quite an interesting phenomenon.

  54. Full disclosure time by Baloo+Uriza · · Score: 1

    So, which telco do you work for?

    --
    Furries make the internet go.
  55. a Guy I used to work with by krazytekn0 · · Score: 1

    couldn't afford FOOD. Who gives a flying rats ass about smart phone rates for the poor.

    --
    Not all life is cyber. Extra Income
    1. Re:a Guy I used to work with by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, let them eat cake.

  56. Ridiculousness of Usage Based Billing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Usage based billing for the internet is absurd. Here's an example to illustrate that.

    If I download 100 GB always at 5pm - 8pm over a month, I'm sure many will proclaim that I am some kind of bandwidth hog since I'm downloading an 'excessive' amount of data during prime time. If too many people do this it could slow down the internet for fellow members, right? At least some people would be convinced by this argument.

    If I download 100GB always at 3am - 6am over a month, I will probably not cause any noticeable problems. At the very least, downloading this much at non-peak, or even low usage times results in much less of a problem.

    With Usage Based Billing, I will always be charged the same amount. And thus the absurdity.

    In the past we have always paid for internet via the size of the pipe, not how much data comes through. Only by presenting improper metaphors, such as comparing to commodity based usage, have the ISPs twisted the arguments into charging for the wrong value.

    1. Re: Ridiculousness of Usage Based Billing by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      I will say that it better not cause problems during off peak times.

      I generally expect/accept I get 50-75% of bandwidth peak, and 100-125% off peak. But if off peak was so congested that an extra 3gb/day killed it (30minutes to an hour) peak usage would be very very slow.

      Note, I don't think prices (50+/month for 16/4mbps) are fair, but I do find the ratio of advertised to available bandwidth in my area acceptable. I don't want to pay T rates ($300/month for 1.5/1.5mbps) just for the garentee. I get that pace from comcast even when torrenting during peak usage times.

      I do think it's unfair that internet+tv is only 1.4x therice of either alone, the damned cable is run already, it shouldn't cost any different to them if I have TV or not (perhaps some few dollars/month to send and process mybills)

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    2. Re: Ridiculousness of Usage Based Billing by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      With Usage Based Billing, I will always be charged the same amount.

      Most usage based plans do charge a single rate for simplicity but there is no reason all usage based plans have to be like that. Just as phone and electricity tarrifs can have an off peak rate there is no reason not to have them for internet plans too.

      I don't see how charging a data user based on data volume is any different from charging a phone user based on time spent on the phone. In both cases you have an imperfect but practical system for splitting the charges for a communication resource among the users of that resource in rough proportion to the ammount of that communication resource they are using.

      In the past we have always paid for internet via the size of the pipe, not how much data comes through.

      With consumer broadband what you are really paying for is the ability to use part of a very large pipe with mobile internet which pipe you are using part of is even changing continuously.

      For a while ISPs just charged all home users with the same speed of final connection to the same ammount, buisness users paid a bit more. This worked ok for a while sure some users used more of it than others but it was within what the ISPs had planned their networks to deal with and TCP dealt reasonably well with congestion. Then bittorrrent came along and became the bane of the ISPs life by simultaneously allowing users to maintain high data rates continuously AND using large numbers of connections at once which meant it didn't play very nice when congestion did happen. The ISPs had three choices

      1: spend a lot of money on building infrastructure to satisfy the small proportion of customers who are heavy torrenters
      2: kick the heavy torrenters off the network
      3: resort to dirty tricks to try and deprioritise, throttle or even outright block bittorrent
      4: move to a charging model that makes the heavy torrenters pay in proportion to their higher usage thereby either stopping them from being heavy torrenters, driving them off the ISP or bringing in more money to spend on infrastructure.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  57. Patronizing Summary by guyminuslife · · Score: 1

    The reason that many people use a prepaid cell phone plan is because they need/use it, and it's cheaper for them. The reason that many people prefer contract plans is that with the amount (and features) that they use, it's cheaper for them. You don't think that someone who uses a lot of data on their phone, no matter what their income level, might notice that they'd save money if they switched to a contract plan? Or are you suggesting that low-income people are just too stupid to read a bill, and can't help but be hoodwinked?

    The data rates for GoPhones may be exorbitantly high. You might argue that they're too high, and I won't disagree. But this stuff about income levels is all sorts of bullshit. What if AT&T decided to charge a million dollars per gigabyte? Would you lament the fate of those poor indigent souls forced to pay millions of dollars to watch YouTube videos on their phones? Or would you simply expect them to either get contracts, or go somewhere else?

    --
    I don't believe in time. It's a grand conspiracy designed to sell watches.
    1. Re:Patronizing Summary by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      Or are you suggesting that low-income people are just too stupid to read a bill, and can't help but be hoodwinked?

      Either that or they have bad credit ratings (Either through legitimate misfortune, lack of discipline, location of residense or some combination of the preceeding).

      Why do you think there is a market for payday loans with some people using them every month?

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  58. Assumption is totally off-base by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "And given that pay-as-you-go pricing is what the poor and people living paycheck to paycheck use, the result is those who can afford the least still pay by far the most."

    Well, let's see here. Between my wife and I, we earn over $150,000/year. We also use GoPhone service. Why? Because we don't yik-yak on the phone all day long and understand that just because one CAN yik-yak on the phone over the most trivial of matters, it isn't really necessary.

    Between the two of us, we spend less than $200/year on phone service with GoPhone. Compare that with the $80/month or whatever you people are spending on your iPhones.

    Not everyone who uses prepaid service is poor or credit-impaired.

  59. Holy cow. you americans are being fucked. by unity100 · · Score: 1

    literally that is. dont excuse the rough wordage - screwed is not enough for this :

    in turkey, up to 6 gb is $30, and per each 1 gb afterwards they charge $30 afterwards. (over the 6 gb quota)

    we have 4 mobile carriers. there are those among them who even provide cheaper. you people are really, really being fucked in the apex of fine capitalism. in the land of the free. ill remember this next time when a right wing republican or libertarian or something blabbers about 'free market' in america to me.

    oh boy. hahahaa.

  60. Finland: 11 EUR for 2Mbps unlimited by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was surprised when some guy from my phone company called me. I was sure that it was yet another one of those completely useless annoying spam calls asking me to switch providers. (Yeah, even though it was from my own provider I was almost sure they just hadn't realized I actually used them. The only spam calls I get are from mobile providers, I should look into that do-not-call list some day.) Luckily they immediately announced that they have some good stuff coming. A little bit later they said that the good stuff included decreasing my 29.xx EUR per month internet plan to just about 11 EUR per month. And then some other pointless crap that is useless to me but still lowers my bill by a few cents anyway.

  61. Tracfone User by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have a Tracfone Samsung slide phone w/ web access for emergency or must use needs. I use about $30 worth of time every 3 months. If I had a phone with data plan in my area I would pay $75 per month. If you are a light smart phone user like I am you save a ton of money. If you use a huge amount of airtime & data it makes sense to get a phone with a contract and data plan.

  62. Barely Regulated pseduo-monopolies by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Suck.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  63. Virgin Mobile by HenryKoren · · Score: 1

    Prepaid 3G on Sprint's network: $25 / month, 300 minutes, unlimited data.

  64. Virgin Mobile has unlimited data for $25 per month by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't know how long this will last but $25 per month for 300 minutes and unlimited data and texts and no contract is a good deal. Around here the coverage is no worse than AT&T. They started offering an android 2.2 phone a few months ago and it has been hard to get in the stores around here.

  65. AT&T by another name would smell as sweet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    While this story will generate a lot of deserved flaming against AT&T, remember that AT&T is not the company known as AT&T. AT&T is the company that bought the name of the company formerly known as AT&T. Forty and more years ago there was plenty of criticism about that company formerly known as AT&T, but its subsidiary accomplished a bunch of useful things like inventing the transistor, Unix, and digital audio.

    After I buy the names, you can call me either Abraham Lincoln or Alfred Einstein.

  66. As they say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It costs a lot to be poor. Poor people are not a particularly fertile demographic for marketing, and so many deals are aimed at wealthy people.

  67. Capitalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "You don't like what you're being charged go elsewhere because to regulate what companies can charge is Marxism."

    Actually, that's exactly what it is.

    Reference the mass exodus of power companies in California.

    If it costs x+2 to manufacture something, and the (state) government mandate you charge x-1 per unit, as a business, you leave.

  68. Honest question to FCC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Has AT&T's common carrier status been revoked yet?

    If not my dear FCC, why doesn't my voice--that of a common citizen and common tax payer--have any sway with you when it comes to the common carrier's pricing of my telecommunications systems?

    How can I, someone of limited financial means, lobby you to listen to me?

  69. the poor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The poor really don't need to be using too much bandwidth, unless it's to access job search sites. They're probably spending most of their money on guns and drugs anyway, so AT&T and others are probably doing us all a favor by taking a couple more dollars out of their pockets.

  70. what's the plan called? by merunka · · Score: 1

    AT&T Ripoff As You Go? :)

  71. come on by georgesdev · · Score: 1

    the result is those who can afford the least still pay by far the most

    My kids have "low resources". Their data plan is like the one described in this post. So they've disabled data access.
    In the end they still pay much less than I do for my "high-end mobile plan"
    When I was a kid I could live without a computer, a mobile phone and the Internet.
    My kids have all of this, except data on the mobile. Should they cry about that?
    What I mean is those outrageous data plans can be understood as "no data plans", and not "high prices for the poor".

  72. Optus Australia - $0.15/kb by AlphaGremlin · · Score: 1

    Optus Australia had (until a few months ago) plans that were 15 cents per KB over the limit. I'm on one, with 500mb of data allowance... heaven help me if I go over that.

  73. Tubes & tunnels by Compaqt · · Score: 1

    Thanks for restating something I've been saying for a long time: If the Internet is a series of tubes, well, then, let it be a series of tubes already!

    Build the tubes, then let private carriers (AT&T, Joe Bob Internet, etc.) pull their wires through.

    No monopoly, and also no ugly wires on telephone poles that get homeowners' associations angry.

    --
    I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
  74. You guys are getting fucked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I pay £25/mo (which given how shitty the US currency is == $40/mo - that sounds pricey). Anyway. Cheap and cheerful. 2000texts, 1500minutes/texts (if i eat up the 2000), free voicemail, free incoming calls and SMS (yeah that's right in the EU we don't pay to receive calls/sms - doing that would be fucking stupid) and uncapped internet (depending on the area and population saturation i've had this go up as far as 3Mb/s). It's natted, but what the hell can you expect with the half arsed infrastructure mobile networks have in place. Most networks here cap you at a gig a month (only three is currently doing unlimited) on tariffs starting as low as £15/mo (depending on handset).

    I even get 60mins of video call a month (to everyone but iPhone users) and free calls to people on the same network. I live in the UK and the networks here are pretty shitty. You guy's in the US are getting _FUCKED_

  75. And I though I was poor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    News like this make me feel a lot better because I've always thought Polish rates were high. The very basic rate in Play is 1 GB for $100 for (prepaid) . But if you top up for $10 you get extra 1.91 GB (2GB total, $5/GB) and 3.84 GB (4 GB total) if you pay $17 ($4.25/GB). They also offer a starter kit (modem+sim+31GB valid for a year) for $160 ($5.16/GB). Prices for data transfer to a smartphone with a "voice" SIM (you can use the "data" SIM to talk but the voice rates are ridiculous) are also quite reasonable compared to the numbers you give ($8.33/GB if you buy 1GB smaller amounts cost more).

    Sometimes it really cheers me up to hear some news from the other side of "the lake" ;-)

  76. What else is new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is pretty much the case across the board. Keep the poor...poor, so the rich can stay rich. Its gotten so bad in this country that I've started to catch myself playing along. Not only do the poor pay higher rates when they can get credit, they pay higher for everything AND they are the main workforce. So not only do the poor people pay more for what they have, they MADE what they can't afford to buy. I feel that this has been exemplified by the current federal budget debates. While a bunch of rich politicians debate what to do to keep the federal government running 800, 000 people are scared to death that they will be the next to lose their jobs. In my humble opinion that is not governing and is NOT acceptable.

  77. Bullshit!!! by KingRatMass · · Score: 1

    Owning a smart phone with a data plan isn't a human right. Don't want to pay that much for the data plan? Don't. Live without it. Billions do it every day.

    BULLSHIT!!!! Try slapping an AT&T SIM into an unlocked smartphone and see what happens. I guarantee that within 10 minutes of connecting to a BTS, you WILL get a text saying that an unwanted data plan has been added to your account. It doesn't matter if the phone is configured for data or not, as soon as an IMEI shows up that matches a qualifying smartphone, they are going to slam you into a data plan.

    You then have to wait until the end of the billing cycle and contest this with customer service to have the unwarranted charges removed from your bill. Even if you request that data NEVER get added to your bill, eventually it will happen again!

  78. Cut the social justice crap! by DarkOx · · Score: 1

    iven that pay-as-you-go pricing is what the poor and people living paycheck to paycheck use, the result is those who can afford the least still pay by far the most.

    Nobody and I mean Nobody *needs* a wireless data plan. Its nice to have but you can certainly get by without one. Its not like it puts you at a real disadvantage in most cases either. That might change someday in the future but right now not having a web browser in your pocket does not yet deny a person many economic opportunities.

    A carrier is a business there is far more administrative overhead in dealing with month to month customers and they lose the benefit of certainty about continuing revenue. They absolutely should charge more for contract free plans.

    Finally if a person's financial situation is such that they can't work a cellular contract MRC into your budget than you should probably not be allocating any of their evidently limited means to wireless data, its was probably better when they were totally priced out.

    --
    Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
  79. Use what you can afford by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    people who live paycheck-to-paycheck are usually pretty stupid about their finances. They shouldn't even have smartphones - they are not a right nor mandated. Let's not make victims out of those who simply make poor decisions.

  80. I hate to say it... by Schmyz · · Score: 1

    but it seems several other countries have far better cell/internet services then our own. Not to mention lower monthly service charges and better coverage. Maybe someone should actually try thinking of the enduser then the profit margin.