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Rivals Mock Microsoft's 'Native HTML5' Claims
CWmike writes "Mozilla and Opera are mocking browser rival Microsoft's use of the term 'native HTML5' to describe Internet Explorer 9 and the in-development IE10 as an oxymoron, an attempt to hijack an open standard and a marketing ploy. On Tuesday, Microsoft's Dean Hachamovitch, the executive who runs the IE group, used the term several times during a keynote at MIX, the company's annual Web developers conference, and in an accompanying post on the IE blog. Hachamovitch claimed in his keynote that, 'The only native experience of the Web of HTML5 today is on Windows 7 with IE9.' Asa Dotzler, Mozilla's director of community development, replied mockingly in Bugzilla: 'I'm pretty sure Firefox 5 has "complete native HTML5" support. We should resolve this as fixed and be sure to let the world know we beat Microsoft to shipping *complete* native HTML5.'"
Make those Microsoft jackasses pay!
Or let them have this one, idk.
Have you heard about SoylentNews?
I think what they mean is they are employing natives in third world countries to write their HTML.
"Waste not one watt!" - CZ
"Mozilla and Opera are mocking browser rival Microsoft's use of the term 'native HTML5' to describe Internet Explorer 9 and the in-development IE10 as an oxymoron, an attempt to hijack an open standard and a marketing ploy."
As if Mozilla, Opera, Google, and Apple *aren't* just going off and doing their own things while using the label as a marketing ploy?
n/t
Still grumbling about pages that passed the w3c validater, looked beautiful in Mozilla, Opera, and Konqueror and I had to redo them because of IE.
The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
Of course there's no such thing as complete HTML5 either since it's still a draft.
Fear is the mind killer.
Embrace, extend and extinguish... plain and simple
"Web sites and HTML5 run best when they run natively, on a browser optimized for the operating system on your device," said Hachamovitch. "We built IE9 from the ground up for HTML5 and for Windows to deliver the most native HTML5 experience and the best Web experience on Windows".
Translation: IE only runs in Windows, so it's better. In fact, IE is so native that it doesn't support Webgl. Take that, Firefox and Chrome!
Who found a way to monetize goatse at this late date?
If we got half the effort of that campaign on real stuff we'd all have better software by now.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Meanwhile, Firefox remains the red headed stepchild to Microsoft because money talks.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
So microsoft is calling the update to IE9 an important update. lol
As the article points out, what the heck does "native HTML5" even *mean*? And if you try to make some sense of it, "native" is not what you want in a cross-platform standard anyway.
Maybe he misread or mistranscribed the prepared text that meant to say "naive HTML5" instead of "native HTML5"? :-)
Vendor claims their product is better then other similar products from other vendors.
Other vendors disagree!
Full story at 11!
How can anyone, whether Mozilla or MS claim their product has or will soon have complete support for HTML5 when HTML5 is still a draft (subject to change) and it will remain a draft at least for a couple of years?
Haven't native american's suffered enough?
GOATSE !
Somewhat dismayed to find that even the IE10 preview still doesn't support this, it's like the last thing that makes IE appear slightly differently than every other modern browser. Hope it'll still make it into the final. I don't want to have to choose between using images for my titles or having them look so.. plain :|
Uh you know you can change any tinyurl.com/whatever link to preview.tinyurl.com/whatever to see where it's going right?
You're washed up. A has-been. Go home with what dignity you have left.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Are they shipping Firefox 5 now? It may have "native HTML 5" whatever that is, but if it ain't shipping then how does Mozilla ship a native HTML 5 browser?
Yoghurt
ACID-moment for HTML5? Promote http://html5test.com/ in these big screens to undermine Microsofts statements.
130 + 5 bonus points from IE9
291 + 13 bonus points from Chrome 12.0.733.0 dev
Though I'd like to see DirectWrite support for Chrome too (just like in Firefox5 and IE9).
When they say stuff like this, what's the point?
Consumers don't know what html5 is and even if they did they wouldn't care. And developers, etc. know what they're saying is lies. So it's a lose-lose type of comment.
Reminds of this set of speakers I purchased a while back. It says right on the box, "Now with enhanced MP3 support!".
Sad thing is, I saw someone reading the box who got all excited because all they had were MP3s.
Were FireFox's villages raped and pillaged by ship-borne whites from the East then its people relegated to the outskirts of society where they lie, marginalized, in wait for the capitalistic anarchy that, any day now, will avenge them?
No? Sorry Mozilla.
So does that mean using IE9 is like hunting with a bow and arrow or a spear, having to chop wood for a fire to cook and keep warm and sleeping in a tee-pee or hut??? Microsoft is a joke. IE9 does work better with HTML5 then previous versions, but it still sucks. It blows at CSS3. I f-ing hate having to write code just for IE, even though my code works fine on every other browser.
I'm pretty sure they mean they're the only browser to use native hardware acceleration APIs, like DirectX.
If use of native APIs mean you run faster and provide a better user experience, that's something to advertise, but by itself is pretty meaningless. Hell, I can ship a web browser that uses the native Windows 3.1 APIs, doesn't mean it won't suck.
...but the performance demos in the MIX conference were entertaining, as all such demos are. I liked the one where the Windows Phone browser smoked Android, which in turn smoked iPhone 4. But contrived demos and marketing aside, it's nice to see Microsoft join the party in pushing the performance envelope on HTML and javascript.
Clearly this was not intended to be a factual statement.
Having trouble with your HTML 5? Then call now! Natives are standing by!
You c*nt
Dean Hachamovitch puts on his favorite trollface and giggles to himself at the riot he's received in response to his comments, while his market speak does its magic on the laymen PC users who think it actually has some legitimate meaning.
Marketing has been dishonest since marketing has existed, and while we scoff at what he has said, he hasn't said it for people who really understand it. Why is everyone so hung up on it now?
Whether it's proper use (whatever that means) of the term "native HTML5" or not, what Microsoft is implying is that their browser is the only one that runs HTML5 (specifically some of the graphics and video layers) directly on top of Windows Vista/7 graphical subsystems tied directly to hardware. I'm sure it employs technologies like WPF, DirectX, and so on. The competitors (Mozilla, Opera, Google, and Apple) support hardware acceleration, but they do it their own way--almost like they "hacked together" support for true hardware acceleration. Firefox and Chrome's rendering of complex 3D scenes is still jerky and relatively slow *especially* compared to IE. I've also noticed that Firefox's live preview renderings (for parts of Aero) are absolutely awful. They might as well not even exist at all. I'm not really an IE user, but I have to give kudos to Microsoft for the raw performance of IE 9 and 10. It really takes advantage of modern hardware. Other browser vendors should stop mocking and take some solid notes.
You don't get it. IE is far superior from a technological point of view, because it leverages the native source console features of the HTML 5 api to produce superior page state management and rasterization of dynamic content streams. The convergent meta-buffering features alone, make IE far more optimized for modern greb-drizle frazzle dazzle alacazam gibblety gobbilty goo. Don't try to fight the marketing droids with reason. You cannot win.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
I thought it was naked HTML5. Just imagine how wonderful Internet Porn will be!
That is because the Acid tests DO NOT test standards. They test fringe cases and in some cases test parts that have since been removed from the spec or nobody uses. It wastes time to develop solely to pass the Acid tests. What is more helpful is to build your browser to standards, which IE8 and IE9 are (they don't support all standards ... nobody does ... but what they do support is supported well), and one you get the standards built in all of these fringe case test will naturally fall into line. You could build IE to pass Acid 3 and still have a crappy browser that the only thing it can do well is pass the Acid test.
From the article:
I'm inclined to trust MS on this, afterall they have the experience to really know what it means! Although, they may just be trying to divert some IE6 hate elsewhere for a while.
It's good that Microsoft finally admitted that native machine code is better than .net.
Microsoft is tasting their own toes again (not hard to do when you stick your foot in your mouth). Chrome has been 'more native HTML5' than any version of internet exploder for quite a while now, but their overzelous, underperforming claims have been around as long as they have. When the others claimed 'yes, we are secure', they publicly posted 'umm yeah, we are secure too' even though the others aren't bending over to viruses, worms, trojans every hour, and they are. Or another instance that pops to mind comes from Wikipedia (although I remember reading it elsewhere).
Microsoft once included a version of the Korn shell produced by Mortice Kern Systems (MKS) in a UNIX integration package for Windows NT. This version was not compatible with ksh88 (a Korn shell specification), and Korn mentioned this during a question and answer period of a Microsoft presentation during a USENIX NT conference in Seattle in 1997. Greg Sullivan, a Microsoft product manager who was participating in the presentation, not knowing who the commenter was, insisted that Microsoft had indeed chosen a "real" Korn shell. A polite debate ensued, with Sullivan continuing to insist that the man giving the criticisms was mistaken about the compatibility issues. Sullivan only backed down when an audience member stood up and mentioned that the man making the comments was none other than the eponymous David Korn.[1]
Edge cases are what allows a vendor that says "we support X" to validate they support X. Deprecated stuff should also be tested, but perhaps in a different suite. Incompletely supported standards mean more edge cases for the implementers; standards should be small enough to manage a simple yes/no answer to "do you support X?"
I've been mocking them too and I'm not a rival!
A large portion of the web development community has been mocking them. It is a terrible idea to let marketing try to write technical jargon without filtering it through technical people.
Well, Firefox 4 is getting there [behind Safari WebKit [not Safari 5.0.5 which is off a much older branch], Google Chrome, Epiphany 3.0, etc] but I guess somehow they will fix Elements, Forms, Microdata, Security, Communications, Files, and Local Devices all by June? Get real.
beat that.
Read radical news here
After all this years and all the fuss around IE9, still it doesn't support CSS's propriety "text-shadow".
Yeah, I know its popular to shit all over Microsoft, but if anybody actually cared to try the HTML5 tests, you'd notice that IE9 outperforms chrome and firefox (as of 4/15/11)
I thought it would be obvious what they mean. Native as in web applications (ugh buzzwords) are supported on the same level as non-web applications.
firefox 5...yeah because that's being used by a lot of people. oh, right i can download the dailies from git. that doesn't count. i hate microsoft!
It is slow to load and doesn't completely support certain CSS properties. That is my biggest point of contention with Microsoft.....you will do things our way!!! I hate having to write code specifically for IE when the code works fine in other browsers. That is what is frustrating and they don't care. They want developers to bend to their will.
I fucking hate their native browser. Why I can't easily use IE 6,7,8,9 on one PC when I can instal 40 different version of Opera one ancient computer with Windows 2000.