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AT&T Admits Network Can't Handle iPhone, iPad Traffic

RedEaredSlider writes "AT&T has admitted that the rise of tablets and smartphones like the iPad and iPhone has taken a major toll on its network. In its public filing to the Federal Communications Commission yesterday, the company admitted that its network has been under increasing strain as more and more high-bandwidth devices have been connected. This not only includes smartphones like the iPhone, but tablets like the iPad as well. AT&T says that in many cases tablets put a greater stress on their network (PDF) than smartphones do."

298 comments

  1. Geee, wiz. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It only took them 4+ years to figure it out. I could tell what effect it was having on my bandwidth back in 2008, if not before that.

    Oh, and thanks for apologizing to your customers, AT&T, for that terrible service you knew you had been providing for years.

    It's disgusting how incapable corporations are of being honest with their customers.

    1. Re:Geee, wiz. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      It only took them 4+ years to figure it out.

      No....it took them 4 years to ADMIT it. Very different things. One makes them incompetent, the other makes them a douche.

    2. Re:Geee, wiz. by intellitech · · Score: 0

      One makes them incompetent, the other makes them a douche.

      I feel they are one and the same when it comes to large entities raking in tons of profit.

      --
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    3. Re:Geee, wiz. by bberens · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think the raking in tons of profit disqualifies them from being incompetent, at least from the perspective of a stockholder.

      --
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    4. Re:Geee, wiz. by Moryath · · Score: 0

      And in the world of internet service, "ISP overpromises and oversells without capacity to deliver what they promised" ought to be followed swiftly by "Feds sweep in and indict heads of ISP."

      But that'll never happen, because the ISPs have already paid off the people who should be arresting them.

    5. Re:Geee, wiz. by nurb432 · · Score: 2

      No, it took them 4+ years to admit it.

      Terrible service? Depends on what area you are in. AT&T service is just fine where i live.

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      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    6. Re:Geee, wiz. by Dishevel · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Google rakes in the profit.
      So Google is an incompetent douche?
      Does this work for people as well?
      The richest people in the world are incompetent?
      Success = Automatic fucktard status?

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    7. Re:Geee, wiz. by OECD · · Score: 2

      Ditto that. In the Mid-Atlantic, it's pretty good. From what I hear about NYC and the West Coast, not so much.

      --
      One man's -1 Flamebait is another man's +5 Funny.
    8. Re:Geee, wiz. by danlip · · Score: 1

      who says their not both?

    9. Re:Geee, wiz. by MoonBuggy · · Score: 1

      Which is interesting, given the argument so often put forward that US telecom companies suck in comparison to those in many other countries due to North America's much lower population density.

    10. Re:Geee, wiz. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indy, IN
      Not too shabby

    11. Re:Geee, wiz. by dgatwood · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Two different problems.

      In areas of low population density, their towers don't reach far enough, so there are huge areas with no signal at all.

      In areas of high population density, their towers don't have enough frequency slots or time slots to handle the number of simultaneous users (and the added multipath problems caused by mostly-concrete high-rise structures make things worse).

      Both problems are real problems. The problem with the U.S. is not that the density is too high or too low, but that the density has too large a standard deviation.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    12. Re:Geee, wiz. by sudden.zero · · Score: 1

      Yeah there is a reason the people around KC call them AT&Terrible!

    13. Re:Geee, wiz. by jburroug · · Score: 1

      No, it took them 4+ years to admit it.

      Terrible service? Depends on what area you are in. AT&T service is just fine where i live.

      Same here in Houston actually, except for downtown during the work week but it's not confined to AT&T. My co-workers that refused to switch to AT&T to get an iPhone because the shitty network had a very hard landing when they got to work with there new Verizon iPhones and encountered the reality of oversaturated cell towers on their network as well. Even just walking a mile outside of downtown drastically improves services here. At home, about 10 miles out of downtown, AT&T data and voice service is just spiffy. Of course YMMV depending on where you live...

      --
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    14. Re:Geee, wiz. by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      who says their not both?

      Nobody who knows how to spell "they're".

    15. Re:Geee, wiz. by icebike · · Score: 1

      Actually Apple raked in the profit, mostly at AT&T's expense.

      Apple is the the largest handset maker when measured by Revenue.

      While slipping to a dismal third in terms of actual smartphones sold Apple rakes in more money than anyone.

      The odd thing is just how proud of this Apple fans are. Imagine being told you are being overcharged (gouged) for your device and saying "thank you sir, may I have another".

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    16. Re:Geee, wiz. by icebike · · Score: 1

      Can you imagine what the cost of an internet connection would be if they had to actually HAVE and PAY FOR enough bandwidth such that IF every subscriber decided to jump on at once none of them would see any slowdown at all? You couldn't afford it.

      Capacity planning targets the Average Peak utilization. Not the theoretical maximum possible peak.

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    17. Re:Geee, wiz. by camperslo · · Score: 1

      The technical issue really isn't one of competence either. It's a matter of the math... the number of people being served by a site, and the finite bandwidth. Reusing the same frequency spectrum with more and more sites covering less and less area each, is about the only way for THEM to handle a greater load.

      Part of a practical solution should be done at the user end. Forcing lower use by things like charging extra or tethering doesn't go over very well. Lowering bandwidth with ad blockers would help some. Avoiding supporting older video codecs is desirable. If video that wasn't to be watched immediately could be intelligently fetched at off-peak hours or during dips, that would help.

      There's generally a tendency among ISPs to keep people from sharing their WiFi. At this point that's counterproductive. While sharing isn't likely to be the viral or identity theft threat some consumers might be thinking of, some newer technology to authenticate guests taking advantage of voluntary shared use is needed to deter things like problematic P2P traffic and child content abuses. A new breed of routers designed to safely offload much mobile device traffic onto WiFi could help immensely. Give those hosting hot spots with some sort of approved hardware incentives for doing so, something like credits towards either their home or mobile data plans. A properly designed router can insure that the host still gets ample bandwidth prioritized for their own use, handle authentication and logging/reporting of traffic, restrict ports as needed etc.
      It's a far far cheaper way of handling much of the load of what mobile users do, than just building more cell site capacity. Use it when a user is in a stable location compared to the hot spot. In some cities it might be cost effective to subsidize suitable hot spots on buses or trains.

    18. Re:Geee, wiz. by Vancorps · · Score: 1

      While you're correct, overprovisioning is a science both in storage and in bandwidth worlds. We in the storage world do it on purpose but know that once we start getting close to our limits that we need to expand. When we see trends of increased storage utilization we start planning on additional storage and then hopefully when we're at or near capacity we bring more online. AT&T failed to act and upgrade the feeds from their towers. This is not as surprise as I've recently been up close and personal with building an ATT tower which for some pathetic reason chooses to bond T1s when a SONET back-end is in the same damned room. They would rather gang 16 T1s together than open up 100megs of ethernet.

      Old school thinking is limiting their network, it will take a lot of reinvestment to give them the ability to keep up, connection speeds have scaled faster than backhaul capacity and ATT failed to update backhaul while upgrading to 3G and are seeing even more problems trying to go 4G, so much so they have to buy T-Mobile to give them a platform to stand on.

    19. Re:Geee, wiz. by icebike · · Score: 1

      They put most of their resources where their customers are concentrated.
      Still, they have to cover the hinterlands where there are not enough customers to pay for the towers.

      There is no place in Germany or France that has a population density similar to Nevada or Utah or Montana or Alaska. Yet people expect to drive down the interstate and never lose signal in all of these places.

      So the density argument is valid, if not slightly overstated.

      In North America, prices for cell service are still much higher than the EU. US Government subsidies are much lower, (in terms of actual payments and gift spectrum).

      And I've never seen a complete fair break down of the costs in Australia or the EU which didn't gloss over a great deal of hidden government involvement.

      Now before you jump down my throat, I have no problem if the citizens of those areas want to pay for their telecoms thru taxes and that is what they voted for. But in the US and Canada, we generally don't run things that way. Its not treated like a road, or a city water supply.

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    20. Re:Geee, wiz. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, if one likes to bend over and get f... from behind, you are either female or gay - that's just normal Apple users. Nothing to see here...etc.

    21. Re:Geee, wiz. by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      and the added multipath problems caused by mostly-concrete high-rise structures make things worse

      I thought W-CDMA handled multipath effectively?

      --
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      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    22. Re:Geee, wiz. by hairyfeet · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But that is why day traders and quick turnover is so bad for this country! hell the day traders wouldn't give a shit if you burned the company down for the insurance as long as it bumped up the stock price. You do ANYTHING smart like invest in infrastructure? watch the price fall. Just keep the money and let shit fall apart? Stock rises. What we need to do is tax the living shit out of the short termers so if you buy stock you would have to be INVESTING, not treating Wall Street as Vegas with nicer clothes.

      As for TFA any of us that has had to deal with AT&T knows their infrastructure sucks ass, full stop. In my area everyone gets reamed by the cableco because even one week on AT&T DSL will make sure you NEVER want to deal with them again. Every time I start to bitch about the cableco prices all I have to do is get called out to a customer that can ONLY get AT&T DSL to go "Wow, thank God cable is in my area!". We are talking a TOP speed of 756k, most of the time sub 200k, and when having to deal with them for a customer got basically told "tough luck we have NO intention to upgrade now or anytime in the future". Monopolies must be nice.

      As for their wireless the shit is so bad I had to wire my dad up his own mini cell tower just so his damned phone would work without him having to go stand outside and point at the tower, and this is in the middle of town? Frankly if it wasn't for the fact they were the only game in town I'm sure they wouldn't have ANY customers at all! Piss poor signal, piss poor speeds, piss poor service. Hell they might as well change the logo to Goatse with a new tag line of "AT&T: we own this area so bend over bitch"

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    23. Re:Geee, wiz. by icebike · · Score: 1

      I don't doubt what you say.

      After all this is the same company that sold off its network to Cingular, only to buy back Cingular after they had fixed it up and gotten some performance out of it.

      I suspect all of the T-Mobile tech-heads would jump ship if AT&T bought them. But according to the AT&T submission, the proposed acquisition of T-Mobile is an attempt to leap 8 years ahead in their tower/network build out plan.

      8 years in one go!

      But the same people complaining about AT&T service (which, by the way I have no problems in my area) seem to oppose this merger, preferring to allow T-Mo to wither and die on the vine leaving the US with a broken AT&T and a boatload of CDMA providers.

      Its the boldest step AT&T has taken to acquire capacity in the last 10 years, and everyone is bitching.

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    24. Re:Geee, wiz. by jht · · Score: 1

      In and around Boston AT&T service is usually pretty good, and has been for the last couple of years (they built out a lot of capacity here when 3g rolled out). Dropped calls are rare, data works well and fast, and I've got pretty much nothing to whine about except maybe the lack of any AT&T service north of the NH Lakes region.

      Plus I was in NYC earlier this week, and though AT&T is legendary for bad service I had no problems at all there. Granted, I was only traveling between Grand Central, Times Square, and Central Park (played tourist with my kid for the day), but I would think congestion problems would be at their worst in midtown. I won't say AT&T is awesome, but I really don't see the hate they get. Before the iPhone, I was on Verizon with a Treo 700p, and the experience was horrible. Partly the phone, and partly the network. When I first got the iPhone the AT&T network was thoroughly meh, but as I said before the last couple of years have been pretty good for my usage. YMMV.

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      "2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
    25. Re:Geee, wiz. by uniquename72 · · Score: 1

      Agreed. I wanted an iPhone in 2009, when several coworkers got theirs. But after seeing the horrible coverage they got with AT&T, I got an Android phone. Now they've all switched to Verizon for their new iPhones, or switched to Android.

      As far as I'm concerned, Apple's foolish agreement with the pathetic AT&T sped up by several years the market dominance that Android will enjoy for the foreseeable future.

    26. Re:Geee, wiz. by Vancorps · · Score: 1

      8 years in one go sounds great except for all of the integration that will need to happen which will leave ATT plenty of room to screw it all up.

      Everyone is more or less bitching about the lack of options, there are no good ones here in the U.S. and this merging will mean that we are facing even fewer options even though your assessment of T-Mobile is probably quite accurate. ATT is still a telecom company however, and they think like one too. Think about the expansion of POTS throughout the country and how long that infrastructure lasted before it needed DSL. ISPs are accustomed to the constant pace of technological progression, cable companies and telcos are clueless. Sadly they have the money so they are dominant players these days.

      Of course I'm here in AZ but I travel to California, Nevada, Vermont, and Florida all the time on business and it sucks there too. Vegas is actually alright as long as you're not in a casino. This is not all ATTs fault, here at my office there are three new towers that ATT has put up that would help us out but all of them are offline pending local and federal approval.

    27. Re:Geee, wiz. by icebike · · Score: 1

      8 years in one go sounds great except for all of the integration that will need to happen which will leave ATT plenty of room to screw it all up.

      I was acquired by AT&T when they purchased Cell-One.

      For me it went smoothly. Can't say this will be the same because its an order of magnitude bigger. Bur for me I never noticed a difference. It all just worked.

      My kid is on T-Mo. Brags about how good their coverage are is even though there is no 3G in the small town where they live. Flipped on their new android phone and dialed *#*#4636#*#* only to find out they have been roaming on AT&T all these years.

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    28. Re:Geee, wiz. by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      So, they are saying that T-Mobile is 8 years ahead of them in network upgrades? Sounds like AT&T can only be a disaster if they are 8 years behind the 4th run carrier in a 4 carrier market.

    29. Re:Geee, wiz. by icebike · · Score: 1

      No, Not exactly, thats a misinterpreter.

      T-Mo is actually in as much trouble getting 4G deployed as AT&T is (regardless of how cute Carly Foulkes is when tweaking AT&T in the T-Mo Ads).

      They are saying that at the current rate that they are able to install new towers (land purchase, permits, licensing, construction, back-haul), it would take them 8 years to build as many as they can buy by acquiring T-Mo.

      They mention ridiculously long build cycles especially in the San Francisco area where all the NIMBYs live. They avoid all of this by just buying already built towers. Its easier to upgrade an existing tower than to build a new one.

      In some areas they will acquire redundant towers (where T-Mo and AT&T already have towers in the same area). These they will use to build out 4G.

      Also don't forget they would acquire a very large portfolio of 1700 band towers. 1700 has much better building penetration than the 1800/1900/2100 band that AT&T uses. They plan to convert all the 1700 band towers to 4G.

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    30. Re:Geee, wiz. by a1englishman · · Score: 1

      Of course Apple rakes in more money than the other manufacturers. iOS devices come from a single vendor. Android and Windows Phones come from a group of vendors who have to share the same slice of pie. That's a comparison of oranges to tangerines.

    31. Re:Geee, wiz. by icebike · · Score: 1

      But if you look at the CNN link I posted, you will see that what you said is an oversimplification.

      Nokia, Samsung, and LG combined make way more handsets than Apple.
      Yet Apple charges so much for their handsets that they make more than those companies together.

      Yes, I know that Nokia make a number of feature-phones as well as SmartPhones.

      So look at the OTHER category (green). Mostly all Android Smartphones. 190 million vs Apples 17 million.
      Yet Apple blows them out of the water on a revenue basis.

      Good for Apple being able to demand that much for their fondle slabs! Way to Go Steve!

      But lots of this came at the expense of driving AT&T to desperation trying to build its network up to the point it can handle this, while Apple pockets all the cash. They don't contribute to the network. They overcharge their customers. And they sue everybody in sight.

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    32. Re:Geee, wiz. by RobertM1968 · · Score: 2

      It only took them 4+ years to figure it out. I could tell what effect it was having on my bandwidth back in 2008, if not before that.

      Oh, and thanks for apologizing to your customers, AT&T, for that terrible service you knew you had been providing for years.

      It's disgusting how incapable corporations are of being honest with their customers.

      Let me explain this event to you. ATT wants to buy T-Mobile to solve this problem. They still have to go through the regulatory and review process and get the acquisition approved. The only reason they admitted to this (to the FCC no less) is because they are hoping it will help push them through the approval process. "Oooh.... without TMo, we wont be able to remain a viable carrier because of how pathetic our network is!!! Please let us buy them!!!" <-- THAT is what their recent announcements/admissions really say. On top of that, the vast majority of T-Mobile's customers who are online commenting about this are very very against this purchase. Numerous of them have already filed complaints in an attempt to block the purchase. I have a feeling ATT didnt think things would backfire like that to such an extent. They never would have admitted to this otherwise.

    33. Re:Geee, wiz. by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      Yet Apple blows them out of the water on a revenue basis.

      Uh no. Perhaps you need to go back to elementary school math. Apple blows them out of the water with *profits*. Revenue is something entirely different. They beat Apple on product shipped and revenue. Apple beats them on profits.

      When you don't understand basic principles like the difference between "revenue" and "profit" it's hard to take anything you say seriously.

      And, to address the reason why, look to what the makers were saying before the iPhone. The other makers were all fighting for the price points. There was competition among features only so much as they put them on the spec sheet and then focused on price. Apple blew them all out of the water with profits because Apple walked in and said "no other maker has focused on a phone that does the 'other' stuff just as well as being a phone, and making such a well rounded product would be worth a premium." And the iPhones haven't done anything that someone else hasn't already done. There were installable apps for phones before. Ones that could play music were out for what, 10 years before the iPhone? The calendar, clock and note apps were no better than anything else out there. So why did it take off? Because it worked, worked well, and did so right out of the box without having to take a course in how to set up ActiveSync or figuring out how to install a program on a Windows smartphone. And yes, for doing something no one else had ever tried (making the phone as "usable" as possible for everything else it can do), they charged a premium. And for that, they make more profit than Nokia who is killing itself trying to get the next $49 disposable phone to market.

    34. Re:Geee, wiz. by icebike · · Score: 1

      Yet Apple blows them out of the water on a revenue basis.

      Uh no. Perhaps you need to go back to elementary school math. Apple blows them out of the water with *profits*. Revenue is something entirely different. They beat Apple on product shipped and revenue. Apple beats them on profits.

      When you don't understand basic principles like the difference between "revenue" and "profit" it's hard to take anything you say seriously.
       

      And when you can't read, yet insist on jumping on every thread, you make a total ass out of your self.

      From the first link: (its in bold here, because even though you have a newbie slashdot number your eyes must be old and weak):

      Quote Appleinsider from Reuters:

      Apple crossed another major milestone in its second quarter of fiscal 2011, surpassing Nokia for the first time ever to become the world's largest phone vendor in terms of revenue.

      The significant achievement was noted on Thursday by research firm Strategy Analytics. According to Reuters, Apple's iPhone revenue of $11.9 billion surpassed Nokia, which saw its revenue shrink to $9.4 billion.

      "With strong volumes and high wholesale prices, the PC vendor has successfully captured revenue leadership of the total handset market in less than four years," analyst Alex Spektor said.

      And this isn't the first time its been reported.

      It said REVENUE. Not Profits.

      Learn to read, Ok? If you won't learn to read, try NOT starting every post you make with an insult.

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    35. Re:Geee, wiz. by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Can you imagine what the cost of an internet connection would be if they had to actually HAVE and PAY FOR enough bandwidth such that IF every subscriber decided to jump on at once none of them would see any slowdown at all? You couldn't afford it.

      Yes, I can. I've worked for more than one place that bought and sold bandwidth under the assumption it was full 100% of the time. The question is do you have any clue?

      Capacity planning targets the Average Peak utilization. Not the theoretical maximum possible peak.

      Wait, what are we talking about? AT&T's phone service, or data service, and local or network-wide peaks? You plan all of those differently. And, as far as I can tell (having worked for ISPs, telcos, and cellular companies) not a single one uses "average" peak utilization. They do take a statistical peak less than the absolute peak. But "average" has a meaning that indicates the 50%, and that's certainly not used by any carrier I've ever heard of. Which carrier have you worked for that uses the 50% usage level?

    36. Re:Geee, wiz. by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Its the boldest step AT&T has taken to acquire capacity in the last 10 years, and everyone is bitching.

      Do you have any sense of history at all? How did AT&T, which has a much older cellular phone division than T-Mobile get 8 years behind? I'll give you a hint. It's because they are incompetent. So, what will happen when they buy this network? Nothing. Then, 8 years later, they'll buy another large carrier that surpassed them. They'll never innovate again, and just buy their upgrades, while at the same time abusing their monopoly position to hold back competitors. The stockholders will benefit and the users will be hurt.

      Why the quip about history? Because the same has happened many times in the past. The upstart cool car company, bought and squashed by a major player. UUNet being bought by MCI back when UUNet was the fastest growing ISP in the world, and MCI ended that almost instantly and relegated UUNet to a relic that some old guys might have heard of while MCI went bankrupt. The big always want to buy the better, and it never makes the big any better. But go ahead. Name one time when the big bought a smaller company that produced a better product, and the big company then produced all better products. Dell bought Alienware, how's that going?

    37. Re:Geee, wiz. by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      But if you look at the CNN link I posted, you will see that what you said is an oversimplification.
      Nokia, Samsung, and LG combined make way more handsets than Apple.
      Yet Apple charges so much for their handsets that they make more than those companies together.

      The simple fact is that Apple does not have more revenue than those companies together. The CNN link talked about profits, not "what the companies make" (revenue).

      So look at the OTHER category (green). Mostly all Android Smartphones. 190 million vs Apples 17 million.
      Yet Apple blows them out of the water on a revenue basis.

      That "green" category is on that same CNN link you posted. Again, profit only, not revenue. You post a link. You refer to the link. And you don't have even the most basic English skills to summarize it here correctly. Let us know when you make it out of the 5th grade, there's a game show you can go humiliate yourself on.

    38. Re:Geee, wiz. by icebike · · Score: 1

      Average Peak is not the same thing as Average, just like mean high tide is not the same thing is mean tide.

      You really do have a reading comprehension problem Mr AK.
      Just because you CLAIM to have worked for some chickenshit Alaska ISP does not mean you were ever involved in Telco or Carrier Capacity planning.

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    39. Re:Geee, wiz. by jhoegl · · Score: 1

      I actually fail to see how you think revenue is better than profit, from a company standpoint.
      Revenue vs profit
      According to the definition, profit means that the company that made the profit could have charged less, but they did not.
      Revenue means more companies/people are being paid, and thus better for everyone in the long run.
      But what I find the most comical was in your OP where you think that less competition (Apple phone) is better than more competition (Android phones), which seems to indicate you prefer that AT&T not be divided up, thus making people "rent" phones and deal with rotary dial even to this day.

    40. Re:Geee, wiz. by jhoegl · · Score: 1

      I actually fail to see how you think revenue is better than profit, from a consumer standpoint. Revenue vs profit According to the definition, profit means that the company that made the profit could have charged less, but they did not. Revenue means more companies/people are being paid, and thus better for everyone in the long run. But what I find the most comical was in your OP where you think that less competition (Apple phone) is better than more competition (Android phones), which seems to indicate you prefer that AT&T not be divided up, thus making people "rent" phones and deal with rotary dial even to this day.

      fixed :/

    41. Re:Geee, wiz. by davester666 · · Score: 1

      They do thank you for paying for the bandwidth they were unable to actually provide you. Of course, contractually, they don't have to provide you with service [as there are no refunds if their service is down].

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    42. Re:Geee, wiz. by digitalchinky · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If a country like the Philippines (about 100 million - 20m of which live in the greater NCR give or take) can handle 10 million+ internet subscribers over 3G, with about 50 million more that use data on their cell phones daily, then I think the USA can handle it. Filipino's send 140 billion text messages every year on top of this too - sure, everywhere you look there are cell sites, most larger buildings have them inside on every floor too - but that's how you do it. Make your footprint smaller, add in more cells, blanket the country in fiber, job done.

      What you suggest is certainly one solution, however I think the world has established that such steps are not necessary when you actually spend some of your billions on better infrastructure.

    43. Re:Geee, wiz. by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Nothing deals with multipath perfectly, so if the signal is marginal already, it can be enough to break things.

      Also, all those reflections can fool the phone and/or towers into switching towers in cases where they might have not needed to if they had waited a few seconds. There's nothing that causes call drops quite as quickly or reliably as a failed tower handoff (when the new tower realizes it no longer has a free slot for the phone that just left that tower two minutes earlier).

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    44. Re:Geee, wiz. by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      The Korean's appear to have managed that task, and at a lower total cost. (and if population density had anything to do with it, then why doesn't new york have top notch internet service?) I might suggest the Korean's are smarter- but it's probably just that in a country that only values money the smart people go into "money" jobs where they can get rich (possibly by gouging the public on services/banking/investments).

    45. Re:Geee, wiz. by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      I actually fail to see how you think revenue is better than profit, from a consumer standpoint.

      I never stated one was better than the other. I was just pointing out that the GP doesn't know the difference. Perhaps you took pointing out that if Apple is getting more profit than anyone else by a massively wide margin, then the others are incompetent to be some endorsement of Apple's pricing structure or company practices. It wasn't.

      But what I find the most comical was in your OP where you think that less competition (Apple phone) is better than more competition (Android phones), which seems to indicate you prefer that AT&T not be divided up, thus making people "rent" phones and deal with rotary dial even to this day.

      For one, I never said what you assert. For another, even if I did it wouldn't result if me arguing for rotary phones. Feel free to quote my exact words that you misinterpreted to reach that conclusion, and I'll try to be more clear.

    46. Re:Geee, wiz. by AK+Marc · · Score: 0
      "Average" means the 50% line. "Average Peak" by definition, will be the 50% peak (not average of total data, but peak average). Now, because they use "peak averaging" to graph the peaks, then select something more like an 80% or 95% line (not an average, which by definition, must be 50%), you obviously have heard intelligent people talk about it once, but weren't up there in ability to actually understand them.

      Just because you CLAIM to have worked for some chickenshit Alaska ISP does not mean you were ever involved in Telco or Carrier Capacity planning.

      I never claimed to work for an ISP in Alaska. But again, it's always you that has the reading comprehension problem. You read just enough to make your little gerbil mind feel comfortable again, then shut out all actual facts and whine like a 6 year old on Easter who doesn't get any chocolate. Go ahead, quote me where I state I've worked for an Alaskan ISP. Oops. You can't. I for one, actually understand what I write, and am purposefully vague so that if some juvenile prick like yourself were ever pissed off at me for correcting your worthless drivel in public, you'd never be able to find me.

      Oh, and I asked what your qualifications were. Since you were silent, I'll take that to mean "I heard about it on the Internet once" level of qualifications. At least I claim to have worked for some ISP, chickenshit or not. You apparently are living in Mom's basement and haven't managed to land your first job yet. But keep up with the lies and pissy attitude. Maybe SCO will hire you.

    47. Re:Geee, wiz. by Farmer+Tim · · Score: 1

      ...treating Wall Street as Vegas with nicer clothes.

      The mind boggles.

      --
      Blank until /. makes another boneheaded UI decision.
    48. Re:Geee, wiz. by Restil · · Score: 1

      Infrastructure investments boost the value of a company in the long term, even though it might affect the price negatively in the short term. Thankfully we have both day traders and long term investors. The long term investor will look at the company as one that will make a lot more money in the future and wants to buy the stock. The day trader will realize there will be a short term drop in the price and wants to take advantage of it, so wants to sell the stock. Both sides get what they want, both sides are happy. If not for the day traders, stock prices wouldn't remain relatively stable. There would be huge spikes and huge falloffs anytime something major happened, since everyone would always want to buy at the same time and sell at the same time and nobody would be available to meet that request until the price changed dramatically.

      As far as taxing the day traders, that's already happening. The long term investors get to enjoy the capital gains tax rates while the day traders get to pay the marginal rate, which can be up to twice as much.

      As far as the stockholders go, corporations don't typically pander to them as much as you'd think. Yes, they DO vote the executives in and out of office as a rule, but day traders don't tend to be the ones voting. The long term investors and those who own a significant percentage of the company are, and THEY have a vested interest in the long term financial viability of the corporation, which includes making investments in infrastructure upgrades and encouraging growth.

      -Restil

      --
      Play with my webcams and lights here
    49. Re:Geee, wiz. by hegstrom · · Score: 1

      Let's put this in perspective. Say you opened a hot dog stand and were able to deliver 10 hot dogs a day. After you sold all ten, would you keep taking customers money knowing you couldn't deliver? And then file a public interest statement with the federal hot dog commission saying "there are lots of hungry people"?

    50. Re:Geee, wiz. by jhoegl · · Score: 1

      feel free to note I said "seem to indicate".

    51. Re:Geee, wiz. by camperslo · · Score: 1

      It would be interesting to see a comparison of their usage patterns. I suspect they're not as far along in the consumption curve, with few tablets and less of things like local native-language streaming HD video but I have not see stats. Hopefully they'll remain well served as time goes on.

      On other advantage we could see from enhanced WiFi or similar supplementation is much lower costs. If it were really widespread, some might not have to pay the likes of AT&T at all for mobile service. Since Google is more into ads while Apple gets a cut of carrier revenue, such a development is more likely on Android. Google has the infrastructure to put in some of the network if they wanted to. We probably could have essentially free (ad supported) mobile telcom and net access.
      Now that's a way to sell a differentiated device!

      T-Mobile has been one to embrace falling back on free connectivity. Who else thinks AT&T would be quick to kill that if they buy them???

      They took our free (as in beer) tv spectrum, how about us getting some other great free service with some of that?

    52. Re:Geee, wiz. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please, please register as HotDogAnalogyGuy and keep up the good work! Slashdot needs you!

    53. Re:Geee, wiz. by DinDaddy · · Score: 1

      Insightful, but I have no points to mod you so.

    54. Re:Geee, wiz. by swalve · · Score: 1

      That's easy to do when the whole country is the size of Arizona.

    55. Re:Geee, wiz. by swalve · · Score: 1

      No, every 24 port switch should have a 24gbps uplink, by law. If I buy another computer, Comcast better come and dig up the neighborhood to immediately bury more fiber.

    56. Re:Geee, wiz. by swalve · · Score: 1

      If its anything like the ethernet drop my company recently got, they are better off with the 16 t1s. As soon as they cut over, internet service went to shit, as did the ip phones.

    57. Re:Geee, wiz. by swalve · · Score: 1

      Dipshit, it is the same thing as average high temperature and average low temperature. Sample the peaks at some interval, and average them. Average peak.

    58. Re:Geee, wiz. by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      What's your problem, dipshit? I didn't say anything that contradicts you. What I said is exactly what you said. An "average peak" means you take the max every day and average them together. However, there is no carrier I've ever heard of that uses the 50% value for load planning. They use something more like the 80% or 95% values. Average, by definition, is the 50% line and only 50% line.

      Or are you asserting that me actually using words correctly is an affront to the Internet where people make up words to suit them? Or are you just confused because you don't know how carriers do capacity planning, so I need to go back to statistics 101 to catch you back up? Oh, and note, the original ignorant prick, icebike, never complained about my definitions. He must have realized that he, like you, didn't know basic statistics...

    59. Re:Geee, wiz. by Chili-71 · · Score: 1

      Does that make them an incompetent douche?

  2. So? by tripleevenfall · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You sign the customers first, work out the details later. Customers are committed for 2 years, will likely be on for 4 or 6. They'll be stuck with you.

    1. Re:So? by blair1q · · Score: 1

      I haven't re-upped on a phone contract in about 12 years.

      They all suck, and they're all driving their customers away actively.

      If it weren't for the 2-year terms of the contracts, there'd be a lot more carrier-hopping going on.

      BTW, 12 years ago I started this odyssey by leaving AT&T and haven't had any reason to want to go back since. The only repeat is T-mobile, to get the Google Phone, and I'm done with them again in a few months now that every carrier has serious Android handsets. But AT&T can suck it, and T-mobile will probably never see me again, either, since AT&T just bought them.

    2. Re:So? by WarpedCore · · Score: 1

      Telecommunications in the United States is flawed to the point where we are at an impasse where AT&T is getting back to where it was 30 years ago.

      They've tied up GSM to suit their own needs by locking down their phones to prevent customer retention to a competing network and signing two year contracts to further prevent the retention and legitimize it by selling atrociously overpriced phones for something that should be manageable without the contract (or bribe).

      Carriers pick the phones they want on their network and dictate to hardware manufacturers the what features they want.
      In general, carriers have been this middle man that dictates EVERYTHING... and I think that it really can't sustain itself on an ethical or economic level. It's been ignored for way too long. Their customer service is lousy and their corporate stores run like a used car lot.

      FCC and FTC needs to put their foot down and counter-bullshit them with an opportunity to rewrite or enforce the books a bit more. Contracts and SIM locks need to go away at the very minimum if the deal goes through. What in the flying fuck do these government bodies even represent if they don't kick AT&T's ass to the floor?

  3. Yes but.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Why does AT&T constantly drop calls?

    I'm not asking for high speed data. I just want to make a damn phone call.

    1. Re:Yes but.. by sjames · · Score: 1

      I gave up counting dropped calls. Now I just count conversations I manage to complete before the drop happens. I have one for April so far: "I'll be home in 5 minutes, see you then, Bye"

    2. Re:Yes but.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Saving you minutes and money 1 call at a time.

    3. Re:Yes but.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Me and my AT&T friends keep track of the time we manage to spend in call before it gets dropped.

      We have a pool going every month, and the person with the longest phone call wins it.

      We call it the AT&Tontine.

    4. Re:Yes but.. by iluvcapra · · Score: 1

      If the cell nearest you is saturated with other subscribers, your phone will find a cell with the next-best reception; that cell may be further away and you might have a worse connection. If a particular network of cells is oversubscribed, in a high-density at busy times there's a good chance you're connecting over an un-ideal cell because the closest one is busy.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    5. Re:Yes but.. by capedgirardeau · · Score: 1

      As I recall the towers are the decision makers when it comes to what cell tower your phone connects to, not the phone.

      --
      Wax on, wax off baby!
    6. Re:Yes but.. by slapout · · Score: 1

      Have you heard about the Verizon iPhone? It's just like the AT&T one, except this one makes phone calls.

      --
      Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
    7. Re:Yes but.. by narcc · · Score: 1

      Why does AT&T constantly drop calls?

      Apparently so that people like me have better service. I couldn't tell you the last time I had a dropped call. Maybe it's your phone, not AT&T?

    8. Re:Yes but.. by Nethemas+the+Great · · Score: 1

      Not really. They round up...

      --
      Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results.
    9. Re:Yes but.. by swalve · · Score: 1

      My at&t blackberry never drops calls unless I'm talking to someone on t-mobile or whatever primeco is now. It's not the network, its the phone.

  4. Stupid by geek · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So it's the fault of the devices and not the retarded telcom that refuses to build out it's network, besides the fact that there is an obvious demand. Fuck them.

    1. Re:Stupid by Bluecobra · · Score: 1

      Not to mention that they charge $45/month for just 4gb of data. I just priced out an iPhone 4 with 450 voice minutes, unlimited text, and 4gb of data and it came out to a whopping $104.99/month PLUS taxes. I pay T-Mobile $70/month for the same service. I'm not looking forward to being an AT&T customer once they acquire T-Mobile.

    2. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure it has more to do with the Increasing Quarterly Profits Syndrome

      AT&T Profits Up, Driven By iPhone
      http://www.informationweek.com/news/smb/mobile/226200082
      3.2 million iPhones were activated in the second quarter and AT&T reported a net wireless subscriber gain of 1.6 million.

      With profits rising 26%, AT&T announced second quarter results Thursday that are a harbinger of the firm's improved financial performance for the full year. As usual, its exclusive iPhone marketing deal with Apple drove much of the earnings even after some well-publicized glitches with the iPhone 4's antenna.

      [CAPTCHA: reaped]

    3. Re:Stupid by jtownatpunk.net · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's why they bought T-Mobile. Much cheaper and faster to buy existing infrastructure.

    4. Re:Stupid by tripleevenfall · · Score: 1

      I have a voice plan for $39.99, unlimited data for $30.00, and 1500 text messages for $15.00. My bill is $90-95 a month. However, I am grandfathered into these plans. New customers aren't so lucky.

    5. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You might see if Sprint will suit you in your area. That same plan (albeit with truly unlimited data) is $69.99 over on their site. I'm a T-Mobile customer looking for alternatives as well and fortunately for me Sprint has good coverage in my area so it might be the right choice (although I'll be giving up GSM).

    6. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is Amercian Phone service so expenisive, it costs you $70 for what costs me £35 plus i get a gps program and picture messages thrown in.
      I also noticed that when I went to America, well Orlando, the internet is incredibly slow.

    7. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know, no one has ever brought that up before... and so relevant to the topic at hand! You Europeans truly are amazing people.

    8. Re:Stupid by stonedcat · · Score: 1

      In the last year or so as the Sprint users in my area have gotten more and more smartphones I find that 3/4 of the time my 3g just sucks balls and doesn't work the other 1/4 of the time. I'm smack bang in between about 5 towers so don't try and tell me it's coverage. Sprint claims to have no idea what's wrong but I'm not a fucking retard..

      --
      You can't take the sky from me.
    9. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reality is that the increasing loss of voice and SMS revenue of the past into data streams now and future, will continue to be reflected in limited data plans. Expect this to become the norm. All operators are struggling with the shift right now. Previously it was a game of minting cash. Now it's a game of balancing network expenditure (include RAN, core, gateways, you name it) with revenues - like the rest of us in different businesses, but a shift nonetheless.

    10. Re:Stupid by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      Even moreso, saying you cannot handle the traffic should clearly be the definitive factor to tell them that they should, in fact, upgrade their capacity. Yet they aren't?

      ATT sure has some blinders on.

    11. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So it's the fault of the devices and not the retarded telcom that refuses to build out it's network, besides the fact that there is an obvious demand. Fuck them.

      No, not the devices. You're just holding it wrong.

    12. Re:Stupid by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      No. The problem with AT&T's network isn't the number of towers (though that's a limiting factor when it comes to customer growth and advertiseable coverage area) but rather the shoddy backhaul. And it's *extremely* unlikely that T-Mobile's backhual is any better. In fact, upgrading their wireless signaling to LTE "4G" is almost insulting considering they haven't reached anything close to 50% of the capacity of 3G. It's strictly a marketing move so they can advertise the "4G" status of their network. Which would be great if the towers were the endpoints we wanted to reach. Unfortunately that's not the case, and the connection from the tower to the rest of the network seems closer to dialup.

    13. Re:Stupid by LionMage · · Score: 1

      You do realize that US$70 is approximately equal to UK£35. (I know the exchange rate fluctuates, but...)

      Also, which provider did you try in Orlando (assuming you mean Orlando, Florida, and not one of the other Orlando cities/towns in America)? Because most locales in the States currently have at least 2 competing ISPs. Generally, that's local cable (typically slow upstream and bursty downstream) and the local telco (providing some form of ADSL or, in my case, VDSL). Depending on which one of those you have, and what their policies are, the performance can vary quite a lot. Saying "when I went to America... the internet [was] incredibly slow" isn't really meaningful without further qualification.

    14. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Infrastructure? I don't think it's just that. In fact, I don't think infrastructure is in the top three things they really want out of this.

      With this deal AT&T will pick up the largest group of GSM-users available numbering 25 million or more subscribers. They'll also pick up additional GSM frequencies they may not already have (like the 1700MHz spectrum which T-Mobile has licensed and deployed) and WiFi contracts with a number of large, national businesses such as Starbucks, large airlines, and the Hyatt family of hotels. It will also be an easy way for AT&T, Inc. to expand services offered to their soon-to-be-acquired wireless customer base to get those same customers AT&T home phone and internet service.

      So adding existing, in-use infrastructure might not their main concern right now. If anything, this buyout may require them to add new equipment to existing infrastructure to expand coverage in high-density areas (and add 1700MHz).

    15. Re:Stupid by PinchDuck · · Score: 1

      Amen to that, brother.

    16. Re:Stupid by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      You know for the price they gouge consumers AT&T could easily upgrade their infrastructure. Better yet these customers are on 2 year contracts which is great for the banks to give the loans to upgrade as AT&T's ability to repay is really strong because of them.

      I have a Samsung Galaxy and I am quite happy with my internet service at 3G. I live in central Florida but maybe places like Manhattan are a little different with tens of thousands of customers for every square mile.

    17. Re:Stupid by ebs16 · · Score: 1

      It's worse than just not having 3G. Around the NYC suburbs (and I'm sure in a lot of other places), NIMBY folks have ensured that there is absolutely no cell phone coverage in certain areas. With fancy new faux-tree antennas, there really is no excuse anymore.

    18. Re:Stupid by hoppo · · Score: 1

      Really? Because I just priced out service on O2 with 300 minutes, 1GB data, 250 text messages, and 50 MMS messages, and I'm at £44.11. At today's exchange rates, that's roughly $73. However, what we don't have is a 20% VAT (TOTAL taxes and fees charged by the US are about 10-12%); also, we do not pay MTRs here. In monthly service alone, I'd be paying about 12% more with O2 than I am with AT&T, and I would end up with fewer minutes, half the data, and be charged money on top of that for calling phones on other networks. So I'm not seeing where we're soooo expensive.

    19. Re:Stupid by rahlskog · · Score: 1

      Holy f***, voice plan 0.66€, unlimited data 13.50€ (true unlimited 15Mbps all you can eat), well i pay texts as i go so cant put anything in there. Still I am shocked at what others pay.

    20. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And, TMobile = GSM, whereas Sprint is Qualcomm (CDMA, etc).

    21. Re:Stupid by Nethemas+the+Great · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I thought that was because they didn't care for a competitor having superior service at a lower price. All I know is I am not the slightest bit please to see my carrier gobbled by those bastards. If the FTC doesn't block the sale I'll likely be switching after it finalizes.

      --
      Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results.
    22. Re:Stupid by tripleevenfall · · Score: 1

      I don't understand the 0.66€ part.

      However, I think people here with smartphones are very commonly paying $90-100 a month for the total phone bill.

      This is partly why I am downgrading to a dumbphone when the one I've ordered arrives. Just not worth the extra $40 or so a month after the taxes are added in.

    23. Re:Stupid by presentchaos · · Score: 0

      Been with TMo for a few years now and I still have the plan I started with. 1000 anytime minutes for $39.99, the unlimited data for $24.99 and 400 texts for $5. So why would I want to go with somebody else? I was in an AT&T store to see what they offer and the lowest price is still over $90. When I told the rep what I am paying he said "That is what causes companies to be bought up because they aren't making any money". Nah, I think it is more greed than wanting to give their hostages .. er, customers a better service experience.

    24. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe because your country can fit in the USA's pocket.

    25. Re:Stupid by dfries · · Score: 1

      Which only helps them if the T-Mobile towers were idle. Unless AT&T expects all the T-Mobile customers will hate AT&T so much they jump over to some other carrier, so maybe they will be buying some unused towers afterall.

    26. Re:Stupid by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      Its not the capacity Planner's faults, so exclude them from blame. It is the bean counters who refused the investment money, even when shown that the networks will be saturated before the end of the year.

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
    27. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can sing on to oppose the merger and tell the FCC not to do this here:
      http://act2.freepress.net/sign/att_tmobile

    28. Re:Stupid by Patch86 · · Score: 1

      If they can't service those devices, they should stop bidding for "exclusive contracts" for them. No-one forced them to buy the rights to the iPhone or iPad.

      If I owned a big company and started tendering for an ISP, I'd expect that the only ISPs that should be bidding for my business would be the ones who can actually do what I'm asking. If the local computer repair shop bids a really low price for it, wins it, signs me up, only to tell me that they "don't have the capacity" to deliver the service I paid for ("sorry about that"), I'd have good reason to break out the lawyers.

    29. Re:Stupid by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      I'm sure profits do matter but there is a lot of truth in the comment regarding NIMBYs. Hell people are dumb enough to start thinking wifi is causing them and their children harm. My grandparents didn't make any friends by selling a plot of their land for a cell tower. Never mind the fact anyone with half a brain would do the same. You get a pretty sweet deal from the company and it isn't going to cause problems but people think they'll get cancer now. They need to come with a way to stop NIMBYs from not being allow to use the services they don't want in their back yard.

    30. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought that they bought T-mobile because they were too lazy to upgrade their own network, as a former "specialist" I can tell they they are collecting plenty of profits but providing precious little service, what really makes me wonder is why so many people put up with such poor service in the first place.

    31. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought that was because they didn't care for a competitor having superior service at a lower price. All I know is I am not the slightest bit please to see my carrier gobbled by those bastards. If the FTC doesn't block the sale I'll likely be switching after it finalizes.

      why don't you build a network and see how easy it is instead of blogging about something you know nothing about...you moron.

    32. Re:Stupid by nosferatu1001 · · Score: 1

      Fuck thats expensive

      unlimited texts
      unlimited data
      600 any network, any time minues

      £20 per month

    33. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >>AT&T Admits Network Can't Handle iPhone, iPad Traffic

      However, their billing department has had no trouble whatsoever processing $7560 in bills from me over the past 3 years.
      (just cancelled 3 iphones. I give up.)

    34. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't worry - T-Mobile (last time I touched 'em was a voicestream) will degrade the service.

      Oh wait. As a g1 developer phone on the paygo plan post AT&T it's already happened.

    35. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I second both sentiments.

    36. Re:Stupid by Methuseus · · Score: 1

      Hmmm, that's a good idea, sing for freedom like the residents of Estonia did.

      --
      Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, though I'm not yet sure about the universe. - A Einstein
  5. One redeeming feature by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 5, Funny

    Luckily, you can call their excellent and friendly customer service, and they will be more than happy to help you in any way they can.

    --
    No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    1. Re:One redeeming feature by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Which is not at all, since those CSRs can't improve the network in your area. You might as well just complain to a wall, would save everyone time and money since you would not have to wait on hold and they would not need to provide a CSR.

      If anything being told politely they aren't going to fix it just pisses me off more.

    2. Re:One redeeming feature by torgis · · Score: 1

      I would call AT&T and their CSRs a lot of things. But polite is not one of them.

    3. Re:One redeeming feature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Another crappy thing is that the CSR's are powerless to do anything, by design.
      They are only there to handle simple questions, and to push issues up the chain in the face of an AT&T blatant screw up (sometimes..)
      About 10 years ago I worked in the same building as an AT&T call center in Harrisburg, PA (it's at the 81/83 interchange..) before they changed to
      Cingular, then back to ATT again.. I remember that for all customers of ATT in northern FL and all of AZ, they had a roaming agreement with another provider.
      ATT got cheap one day and decided they were no longer going to pay for the tower access any longer, and literally overnight with no warning all CSR's
      were given a script to state when customers were going to call the next day due to the "we're sorry, you can not make a call with your phone
      without a credit card" messages they were going to get..

      The script said "We're sorry, but the roaming agreement for ATT in your area has ended. We suggest you use your phone in one of the other
      ATT areas around the country." When EVERY SINGLE customer said "Well I live here, so cancel my service" they were all told
      "We will cancel your service, but you will be charged a $175 early term fee per line, as it states in your contract that ATTW doesn't
      guarantee service in any area at any time" The call center lost 40+ people within two days due to the abuse they got from customers..
      It's a shit company to have service from, and it's a shit company to work for. I left (as a NOC tech) within a week of that policy
      going into effect, and have never looked back.

  6. Duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It took them how long to figure this out

    1. Re:Duh by stokessd · · Score: 2

      They knew this on iPhone launch day in 2007. They are very aware of the happenings on their network. It took them this long to publicly admit what is painfully obvious to everyone (it's a running joke). That says more about the company ethos and management's opinion of it's customers than if they didn't realize that their service was being pounded.

      Sheldon

  7. Yesterday they announced profits were up 39% in Q1 by straponego · · Score: 5, Insightful

    $3.4 billion in profit last quarter. And yet their network is garbage. I have an idea, but it's an engineer idea, not a suit idea, so... never mind.

  8. This is why I got a wireless iPad2 by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 2

    If you did what I did and traded back your alpha iPad3 (great idea, 3D, but it sucks juice and the eyestrain gets to these old eyes) for a wireless iPad2, then you're ahead of the game, since you don't need to rely on the AT&T network or even Verizon.

    Wireless-N service works perfectly fine, and everywhere I go there's free wireless N including my home (you can buy a wireless N router for around $50).

    And you can even run Skype on it, so you don't need a cell either.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  9. Crazy idea here by Nidi62 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Uh, if all of these new devices are causing a strain on your network, how about upgrading your network infrastructure? I know, this sounds crazy. Spending money like that will just eat away at profits. Maybe if you're lucky you can wait long enough to where phones'll barely work on your network and you can get the government to subsidize the improved network.

    --
    The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    1. Re:Crazy idea here by Gohtar · · Score: 1

      Don't give them ideas damn it.

    2. Re:Crazy idea here by cdrguru · · Score: 1

      There is a fundamental problem with "upgrading the network" - there is a limit to the density of cell towers. There is the pure physics of it that you can have just so many competing radios per square mile and there is also the problem of locating these cell sites.

      Just putting up towers is somewhat of a problem because most businesses do not want the hassle. Having a cell tower attached to your building means that you will get at least one complaint a day from someone that believes all they read on the Internet about radiation, cell phones and brain cancer. You can't put them in parking lots or residential lots either. So there aren't too many places where they can put up new towers.

      Back to the first problem, even if you could have a cell site on every block the cell protocols weren't designed for high-density handoffs. PCS was designed for that, but not GSM. I don't know about the new 4G protocols but I suspect they weren't designed for microcells either like PCS was. So there is a real limit to density.

      The real problem is going to turn out to be that cell networks simply cannot support everyone having two or three cellular communication devices turned on all the time and trying to exchange data. Funny, WiFi can't handle that many users either.

    3. Re:Crazy idea here by thoromyr · · Score: 1

      Give them ideas? Admittedly without having read it, I suspect that is the ultimate goal of the filing. "Oh, woe is us, our network is bursting at the seams due to our demanding customers." Later, lobbyists will refer to the filing when petitioning for a government funded build out of network to enable their customers to reach resources on the Internet which the depend on for their work and daily living. They love the fluff pieces put out by Apple about how Company X is doing new and wonderful things that "are only possible because of Product Y and high speed Internet access". If the government doesn't help them out, it will be stifling innovation and preventing entrepreneurs from establishing new businesses.

      As a pointy haired boss it makes absolute sense to maximize short term profit by minimizing expenditures and later lobbying the government for a handout to meet demand -- and being careful to paint a picture that never reflects the cold calculation behind the decisions.

    4. Re:Crazy idea here by cdrguru · · Score: 1

      Then you run into the problem of people saying that cell phone towers cause cancer, impotence and all sorts of other things.

      You can't just put up cell sites everywhere - people notice, get petitions together (real paper ones) and present them to the city to block construction. Mostly, the cities have no choice but to block the addition of more cell towers.

      The result is that it takes years and lawsuits just to build one tower or to attach some antennas to a building.

    5. Re:Crazy idea here by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      I told you, you stick them in the walls and don't tell anyone. Sure, that doesn't stop the hassle of installing them, but you won't get the wingnuts wandering in because they won't know they're there.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    6. Re:Crazy idea here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh, if all of these new devices are causing a strain on your network, how about upgrading your network infrastructure? I know, this sounds crazy. Spending money like that will just eat away at profits. Maybe if you're lucky you can wait long enough to where phones'll barely work on your network and you can get the government to subsidize the improved network.

      In the short-term, spending money to upgrade will certainly erode profits. In the longer-term, *not* upgrading will cost them even more, since people will not want to pay for their lousy service.

      Typical case of a corporation fixed on *quarterly* profits rather than taking a long-term view of their market.

  10. As for Android? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not so much. ;-)

  11. Waaahhh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We want federal tolerance of our practices in violation in FTC standards! Don't make us do anything more because we just don't want to pay for it!

  12. Great Example by Palmsie · · Score: 4, Insightful

    For why we need larger quantities and higher quality carriers and ISPs. It's not like this is the first time hardware advances have put pressure on specific sectors to improve their services. Most providers are already giving the US some of the worst bandwidth you can get in the modern world. And now non-tech users (read: smartphone and tablet users) are becoming complacent with data plans and shabby speeds that it's becoming this pathetic norm. The one recent ray of hope is Google's Kansas City project where they're getting some of the best stuff in the country while someone in LA is sitting there twittling their thumbs with 3mpbs Internet speed. Oh boy...

    --
    Carl Sagan quotes get you an automatic +5 on all posts.
  13. Good you can just switch providers by cpotoso · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Luckily you can just take your cell phone or pad and use it on another network. Oh, wait! In the retarded US we can't because each company has its own system mutually incompatible with all others (except ATT and T-M, but that fortunately will end soon). Way to go! You are locked in for sure, unless you want to shell another several hundred $$ on a new (and incompatible with anybody else) device. !#@$!@#$

    1. Re:Good you can just switch providers by Mordok-DestroyerOfWo · · Score: 4, Funny

      That sounds like Socialist talk...comrade

      --
      "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
    2. Re:Good you can just switch providers by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 0

      Did you have a point or was that totally random?

    3. Re:Good you can just switch providers by imric · · Score: 1

      It looked pretty obvious to me: don't look to the 'Free Marketeers & R'Publicnan' to swoop in and bail you out of this mess! They are the ones holding you at sword-point!

      --
      Paranoia is a Survival Trait!
    4. Re:Good you can just switch providers by rtechie · · Score: 2

      This isn't really true. In the USA there are lots and lots of regional carriers that are compatible with the phones of other carriers because they use their networks. Sprint in particular is a big reseller so you can take their phones to Boost, Cellular South, Cricket, Liberty Wireless, Movida, U.S. Cellular, Virgin Wireless, and others, Verizon has MetroPCS, AT&T has Cellular One, and T-Mobile has Simple Mobile.

    5. Re:Good you can just switch providers by AbRASiON · · Score: 1

      I wish more damned hardware manufacturers would use the chip included on the iphone 4 - it's a quad band chip compatible on any GSM network (if I recall correctly) - and no one besides Apple is using the fucking thing yet.

      Can't do much about CDMA of course but at least from a GSM perspective, we have the hardware, it's just manufacturers get exclusive deals and lock that down via firmware too. The US phone market is actually making it shit for everyone else, I wish people would stop making special phones just for special carriers, it's so retarded.

    6. Re:Good you can just switch providers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also t-mobile does not exist in Iowa, but there is Iowa wireless.

    7. Re:Good you can just switch providers by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      It's the American way, get rich by gouging the public.

  14. This is what you get by countertrolling · · Score: 1

    when you try to tether the device to the network.. Old fashion local storage is still the way... That, and cut back a little on the advertising..

    --
    For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
  15. You sell it, you support it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If AT&T is selling these phones, then they are the ones who should be responsible for supporting them, which IMO includes providing adequate bandwidth and network capacity to deal with the demands of the devices that they sell. I purchase a phone and data package. I should be able to get the capacity that I have paid for. If that is an unlimited data package (mine is), then this is NOT my problem. It is AT&T's problem in promising more than they can deliver, which in any terms is fraud.

  16. And the real reason they're admitting this by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is to justify their purchase of T-Mobile to the FCC. After the purchase is approved, exactly NOTHING will happen to improve their network.

    --
    No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    1. Re:And the real reason they're admitting this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yup! No reason the T-Mobile merger shouldn't go through. Becoming the monopoly has never been about improving the market.

    2. Re:And the real reason they're admitting this by atari2600 · · Score: 1

      Well, in their eyes, the T-Mobile purchase IS ACTUALLY improving their network. They are spending close to 40 billion to improve their network. F AT&T.

    3. Re:And the real reason they're admitting this by Charliemopps · · Score: 2

      T-Mobiles network wont do anything for AT&T, it's tiny in comparison to AT&T... Although I agree that they have no desire to improve their network. Telcos hate investing in infrastructure. What costs $50k today will be replaced by something 10x as fast and half the cost in a year... so they hold off for as long as possible (which is usually until the entire area fails in some catastrophic way and local government gets involved)

      Profit in telecom comes in 2 forms:
      1. The Government
      2. Overselling networking equipment

      The only way you're going to fix this situation is to either have the government take over telecom entirely... or end the subsidies and get the department of weights and measures involved in ensuring internet speeds. None of them will fix anything until they are all forced to at the same time.

    4. Re:And the real reason they're admitting this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is exactly the reason the FCC should block this purchase. Without T-Mobile you remove one of the few remaining players that are in place to compete with AT&T such that if AT&T as a company wants to survive and retain its customers (without breaking trade laws) their only alternative is to improve their product. Allowing them to buy up their competition will certainly help AT&T, but it will hurt the consumer because they've gained nothing material and actually lost market pressure for AT&T to continue to invest in itself.

    5. Re:And the real reason they're admitting this by gaiageek · · Score: 1

      I can't believe that of all the comments I've read, this is the only one mentioning this fact. This is just AT&T admitting what everyone already knew in very poor attempt to justify elimination of competition to better control the market for even more profits.

      I'm a former AT&T customer, now T-Mobile customer for the past 5 years. I need to use GSM devices because of international travel (and I'd rather not juggle between two separate devices, thank you). If this deal goes through, my solution is to move to another country - partially because I don't want to give AT&T any of my money, but more so because this deal going through would just be one more sign that the US is truly ruled by corporations, and no one in government has the principles to do what is actually right, i.e. telling AT&T, "this is bullshit - go spend your billions in profits on upgrading (or one might say "maintaining") your existing network like you should have been doing all along."

    6. Re:And the real reason they're admitting this by rtechie · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure the plan is to kill T-Mobile's 1700/2100MHz AWS network, their 3G/"4G" network running HSPA, and replace it with a new 1700/2100MHz LTE network. Existing T-Mobile customers will be shifted to AT&T's 1900MHz GSM network. The new LTE network will be much faster.

    7. Re:And the real reason they're admitting this by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      And anybody with a T-Mobile 3G phone will be stuck with either going back to Edge, or getting a super-locked-down lousy ATT phone...

      I'm only 3 months into a 2 year T-Mo contract. I'm just crossing my fingers that my 3G holds out long enough to switch to Verizon or something. And to think I was happy to have a phone that actually worked internationally. No way I'd ever buy an Android phone from ATT - not unless they change their tune in a major way. If they change their frequencies early and offer me a free phone I'm going to probably argue breach of contract and try to get out of it, unless one of the free phone options already has good Cyanogenmod support...

    8. Re:And the real reason they're admitting this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Getting the government to take over would surely be the quickest way to make it fail. If you think AT&T is bad as a private corp, you haven't seen anything until the government gets it's hand on it! At least privately we know their motivation. The level of sheer ineptitude in the government is worse.

    9. Re:And the real reason they're admitting this by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

      You're just talking out of your ass. I work in the telco industry. AT&T IS the government. The are subsidized by the government. They pass any and all customer data to the government upon request without warrants. Any legislation that they suggest to congress is passed without question.

  17. Simple solution! by Ambiguous+Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Of course, the solution here is obvious:

    Charge everyone more for data plans in order to encourage less use of limited resources!

    --
    Their may be a grammatical error, misspeling, or evn a typo in this post.
    1. Re:Simple solution! by Nethemas+the+Great · · Score: 0

      Why they hell is everyone modding this funny? This is NOT funny!

      --
      Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results.
    2. Re:Simple solution! by Ambiguous+Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree, I was going for "+1 Horrifying." Once again, the slashdot moderation system falls short.

      --
      Their may be a grammatical error, misspeling, or evn a typo in this post.
  18. With all their profits, maybe they should build by guruevi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They made $3.5B last quarter (net profit). If they only invested half of that, maybe their network wouldn't be under so much strain and the economy would prosper. How much people can YOU employ for $2B? I would say at least 40,000 people that would then be able to reinvest their money in you know, $500 cell phones and $120/mo data services.

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    1. Re:With all their profits, maybe they should build by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They made $3.5B last quarter (net profit). If they only invested half of that, maybe their network wouldn't be under so much strain and the economy would prosper.

      Do you know how much AT&T spent upgrading their wireless network last year? Over $3B in 2010, $4B planned for 2011. And why are you bashing AT&T when their data speeds are double that of Verizon.

    2. Re:With all their profits, maybe they should build by Solarhands · · Score: 1

      I just took a look at last year's 10k. Their EBITDA (a decent approximation of how much more money a business could have spent, but chose not to) for their wireless segment was 21.8 billion. They invested 9.2 billion in upgrades to their long-term wireless assets. I could not find any further breakdown of the wireless assets to determine which of those are actual infrastructure versus office buildings and whatnot. AT&T could be spending triple what they do on wireless infrastructure without losing money on wireless.

    3. Re:With all their profits, maybe they should build by tepples · · Score: 1

      How much people can YOU employ for $2B?

      There are three factors of production: land, labor, and capital. The limiting factor is not necessarily labor, as you appear to suggest, as much as land: permits to build more towers so that each cell has fewer subscribers in it. NIMBY types love to block new tower construction.

  19. Duh by headhot · · Score: 2

    Maybe their capital expenditures on their network should have gone up the last few years instead of down. They have been squeezing their customers for profits at the cost of their network. Now they want the FCC and the T-Mob acquisition to bail them out of mba bonus engineering.

  20. Small wonder... by dazedNconfuzed · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Small wonder they dropped the "unlimited flat rate 3G" plan a month after the iPad 3G was introduced.

    Makes me wonder how far the gap between the wonder and the reality of "cloud computing" is. Sounds great to keep all your data/music/video in the "cloud", but throwing around that much data grinds any capped data plan into the ground.

    (Advantage to the early adopters: some of us still have that glorious "unlimited 3G" plan. Yay! FYI: they're transferrable.)

    --
    Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
    1. Re:Small wonder... by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      Advantage to the early adopters: some of us still have that glorious "unlimited 3G" plan. Yay! FYI: they're transferrable.

      I have one of them too, but i do expect that to go away at some point in the near future. They CAN change the TOS on a whim or just say "that contract is no longer availble, so you have to renew to a capped plan"

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    2. Re:Small wonder... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then I will drop them and go some where else cheaper.

    3. Re:Small wonder... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shhh....careful...they could already be on to you. Now that you've posted this they'll probably ax this plan for us. I've been keeping quite about this for the last two years, wondering when they'd notice that some of us actually had a decent deal. Now you've probably gone and blown it. I guess you're to young to remember "The President's Analyst" staring James Coburn.

  21. Behold The Cloud! by Drakkenmensch · · Score: 1

    The future of ALL computer communicati- oh crap my call dropped again, gotta restart my file upload, again.

  22. Basically most of the... by cyberfin · · Score: 1

    ...comments are right in saying why did you give the contract and not the goods. Yet that's what the business does every time in these cases. Play catch up. It's todays business model.

    --
    "I'm taking this loop off." - Jack O'Neill
  23. Cop Out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Its a cop out.. so they can acquire T-Mobile.. they will say anything to get what they want.. Duh

  24. Selling services you can't provide by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Okay I start a lawn mowing service and get a 100 customers. I only have time to mow 10 lawns so to be fair I only mow 10% of each lawn. Hey everyone gets part of their lawn mowed so what's the problem?

  25. A better question by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    If you want to make phone calls, why are you using AT&T?

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:A better question by tripleevenfall · · Score: 1

      Quality of mobile coverage is dependent on a myriad of factors, including your geographic area and the handset you are using. Some carriers suck in some areas and are great in others.

    2. Re:A better question by sixteenbitsamurai · · Score: 1

      So much this. In northern MN, AT&T has great reception and Verizon calls always drop out. The 3G coverage for both seems spotty at best up here, though Verizon has slightly better data when and where you can connect. Yes, anecdotal observation, take it with a grain of salt, YMMV, etc.

      --
      Yeah, that just happened.
    3. Re:A better question by cjb658 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but AT&T rocks at it's other main service: telegraphs

    4. Re:A better question by tripleevenfall · · Score: 1

      I'm in the Twin Cities and all phone providers seem equal for calling (same as in other metro areas where I've lived).

      AT&T can be pretty spotty for data here, especially 3G.

  26. iPads consume more? O RLY? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    iPhone is a phone, iPad is a device designed for heavy multimedia consumption. No shit it uses more data.

  27. Why do I have trouble with their motive? by whizbang77045 · · Score: 1
    The phone company has developed a lot of predictive math, such as queueing theory. I have a hard time believing that they didn't predict exactly what would happen with things like the iPhone. This sounds like a plan to create greater demand that in turn justifies more frequency space.

    The spectrum belongs to all of us, not just to AT&T. Services that can't operate in the bandwidth allotted need to be eliminated.

    High bandwidth internet and internet applications need to be kept on the landlines.

  28. Is AT&T really that bad? by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    I've called Qwest before, and they put me on hold w/o music until I disconnect (the IVR, not the reps). I've heard AT&T's business support is great though, but I've never experienced it (or Qwest for that matter, when I've called for small businesses I used to do support for, they always skimped and managed to get residential service to their business :(... ).

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:Is AT&T really that bad? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AT&T's business support is a flaming heap of industrial grade tetanus bearing scrap.

      If you can get through to an application engineer by a miracle, you might be in luck. It once took them three months to get one of the Nortel tower engineers into a conference call--and even then, I think the guy was based in Turkey and had trouble communicating with us.

      AT&T might be tolerable if all you need business support for is getting a phone rebooted, changing your SMS or minutes plan, or having a SIM or replacement phone hand delivered in event of an 'emergency'. Other than that, they listen to you, get confused when their account notes are still bad after three years, and try to walk you through unneeded steps to place blame on your hardware when you've already isolated network RFI issues.

      And it isn't just business support that has the problem...even their enterprise support does. They'll promise 48 hour resolution on problems (depending on severity), and then have their management triage severity down to get more time... this happened to me whether or NOT the incident was resolved, and if it does go away, they refuse to perform a postmortem.

      Good riddance I'm done with that job--spending 25 hours a week on the phone with AT&T "enterprise support" was powerful motivation to quit.

    2. Re:Is AT&T really that bad? by DrgnDancer · · Score: 1

      How do they keep the tetanus alive on the flaming scrap? This sounds like a real biotech breakthrough. maybe they should switch fields or open up a subsidiary or something. Granted I'm not sure why you'd want too, but it's impressive.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
    3. Re:Is AT&T really that bad? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AT&T phone support is horrible on all fronts. We finally gave up on it, and just drive to the nearest store in order to get anything done that cannot be done self-serve on the website.

    4. Re:Is AT&T really that bad? by Joe+Tie. · · Score: 1

      Qwest is horrible. They had some problem, and it left myself and a fair amount of people around me without service for almost half a month. They always replied to inquiries with shrugs when asked how much longer it'd be. And all but laughed when I tried to see if I could get out of paying for the duration of service that they weren't actually providing me service.

      --
      Everything will be taken away from you.
    5. Re:Is AT&T really that bad? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Qwest business support is great, too. You call with a problem and they'll have someone out within 4 hours. Business support is always great compared with residential support.

    6. Re:Is AT&T really that bad? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Qwest is the worst company I have ever dealt with from a customer service standpoint. I will NEVER do business with them again. Their service, product wise, was great. The customer service is what sucked. It took us over a year, and several dozen phone calls, to get a refund from them after we changed to Cox. The only reason we had a refund coming was that they were somehow "overcharging" us for the 6 months that we had them.

      As for AT&T, I have never done business with them but, from what I've heard from many friends, they aren't much better than Qwest.

    7. Re:Is AT&T really that bad? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trust me AT&T have horrible support. The lie and they blame others on their problems. If possible we keep AT&T off of our network. The truth. AT&T couldn't build a network with two cans and a string.

  29. 4G by [TWD]insomnia · · Score: 1

    So much for calling it 4G, just to show they can "keep it up" with the competition (which is not, of course).

  30. Re:Yesterday they announced profits were up 39% in by geekoid · · Score: 4, Funny

    Man comments on story that has no impact on him, wants attention, news @ 11

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  31. no problem here by bhcompy · · Score: 0

    But I don't live in hipsterdouchebagville with all that population density and all those poor people that use their iphone/ipad to stream netflix or tether for bittorrent because they won't pay the man for cable. I live in the burbs. I probably have the cell tower all to myself

    1. Re:no problem here by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      No problems here in the Baltimore area on Verizon, perhaps it is true that they can handle the iPhone, as it isn't any different from any other smartphone...

      Oh, and love the Verizon unlimited data plans.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  32. Re:Yesterday they announced profits were up 39% in by swanzilla · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    Thank you for that insightful post. Feel free to rant about other technologies that make you nervous.

  33. Oh great here comes the scarcity by gottspeed · · Score: 0

    I heard once that capitalism is effectively a race to scarcity. We all know this is a crock, just decorating every-bodies heads for when they jack up the price and charge by the byte.

  34. Re:Yesterday they announced profits were up 39% in by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

    Smartphones are like cars. If you don't own one, you can certainly get along just fine, but you don't really know what you're missing. Once you have one, you wonder how you lived without it.

    As for the carriers, if you have a phone they're raking you over the coals anyway. My wife and I have smartphones, and they cost about $80/mo combined (effectively $40 each). There are places where the network is slow (there are rural areas around me) to non-existent, but for the most part I get 3G speeds in most of my town, and since I don't stream movies over the internet, I rarely notice it.

    Now, if you live in NY or LA or SF with the rest of the lemmings, then you probably have connectivity issues. That sucks, but its still better than if you lived in the countryside 150 miles outside of DC, where there is no service from any carrier at all, and they're still on dialup for internet.

    As for contracts, where the f am I going to go? There are two carriers with even remotely decent coverage (ATT & Verizon), and the smaller players who are likely to get bought up by them soon. I can't take my phone even if it was unlocked because few of the carriers use the same system, and those that do use them on different frequencies. Hell, AT&T foots $400-$500 on the cost of a new top-of-the-line phone for me every 18 months, and in return I pay them for $700 for service during that time. They pay so much of the phone that I can resell the damned thing on eBay for more than my share of a new phone. So for $40 a month (which I guarantee for 2 years, or have to pay them back just over half of the subsidy they gave me) I get a new phone every year and a half AND more voice and mobile data service than I use.

    In the words of Bre'r Rabbit - don't throw me into that brier patch!

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  35. AT&T Can't Make Up it's Mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    AT&T are morons. If these devices are creating such a strain then they need to stop selling iPhones and iPads for use on their network. What has happened is that AT&T are indiscriminately selling every device to consumers who want them and then they're turning around and complaining about their networks not being able to handle. I have a suggestion, either stop selling the devices for use on their networks or upgrade their current network. They cannot continue to sell these iPhones and iPads and then turn around and complain that their putting a strain on their network. It's either one or the other, numbnuts.

  36. So Upgrade by Rog7 · · Score: 2

    Here's a thought: AT&T should upgrade their network.

    That may be a costly endeavour but the mobile market is very lucrative and it can only give them a greater edge in the future.

    This whole maximizing-profits by reducing costs thing is making tech companies underperform. It's short-term thinking and exactly how our public corporation system isn't working as well as it should. Can't they start thinking beyond the next financial quarter or two?

    In other words, they're being cheap and short-sighted.

    1. Re:So Upgrade by schnell · · Score: 1

      Here's a thought: AT&T should upgrade their network.

      Jebus, does nobody around here actually research anything before they post on it?

      It turns out that AT&T has spent and is spending many billions of dollars on spectrum and equipment and backhaul for upgrading their network. So is Verizon. So is Sprint.

      All the big cellular carriers in the US spend tens of billions of dollars every year on their network. I know everybody on Slashdot prefers to imagine them as Uncle Scrooge McDuck on his money lake or something, and but for whatever reason you choose to hate them (there are many) lack of network upgrade investments is not one.

      --
      "95% of all Slashdot .sig quotes are incorrect or completely fabricated." -Benjamin Franklin
    2. Re:So Upgrade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Want to stop the short-term thinking? Pass a law that only annual earnings reports can be published. Also pass a law that only allows a 90-day buy/sell period for stocks. The 90-day window opens up when the annual earnings are posted.

    3. Re:So Upgrade by Luyseyal · · Score: 1

      No kidding. Though I have to say, with the crappy connections I've been getting at home and at work, I've started to take seriously the idea of having a gsm-to-internet gateway (femtocell) in my home. The AT&T MicroCell pricing is terrible, though. I understand paying for the box, but they should not be billing against your minutes for using the thing. At minimum, they should not bill you nearly as much.

      -l

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  37. Doesn't stop the sales, though. by MarkvW · · Score: 1

    Sell beyond capacity. I've seen that movie. It's called "The Producers." Those guys went to prison for fraud, though.

  38. Re:Yesterday they announced profits were up 39% in by uncanny · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    Get off his lawn!

  39. If only they had some cash. by Beelzebud · · Score: 2

    If only these poor souls had some cash on hand to build up their own network.

  40. Not just AT&T by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Now that there is no regulation that requires it, *all* the carriers were shorting the expansion of the networks to accommodate future need and pocketing the cash.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  41. earth day admin; can't compete with bunny, jesus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    although taking the place for granted/wrecking it, might make unchosen ones wonder how/where the bunny, & jesus, will be able to conduct their chosen holycostal business as usual, on a poisoned population, black hole, earth day.

  42. Devil's Advocate by LeDopore · · Score: 1

    I know I'm posting against the prevailing opinion here, but I think AT&T might be doing the right thing. Consider that communication technology gets better and cheaper every year. Upgrading now not only cuts into profits, but it also means buying capacity for more money than the competition who doesn't upgrade for a few years.

    The sign of a well-managed telecom is that its network is just at the point of being so crappy that folks are leaving. Any more capacity and they're wasting their dough. Erring a little to one side or the other is probably understandable too.

    --
    Expected time to finish is 1 hour and 60 minutes.
    1. Re:Devil's Advocate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's hard to gauge market reaction when you tie your customers into multi-year contracts. If you're a new customer, you might not even know how shitty the service is until you're already several months into your agreement, especially if your carrier is overselling their network capacity every opportunity they get and doing next to nothing to remedy it.

    2. Re:Devil's Advocate by geek · · Score: 1

      "The sign of a well-managed telecom is that its network is just at the point of being so crappy that folks are leaving."

      Stupidity like that is why we have some of the worst broadband in the world. You sir should run for president.

  43. Re:Yesterday they announced profits were up 39% in by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 0

    Awww sad face. Does bitching make you feel better?

  44. "like the iPad and iPhone " by nurb432 · · Score: 0

    Gotta love the subliminal attack against Apple.

    1 - they aren't the problem the network is
    2 - they are not the only game in smart phones.

    For some reason i have been getting the feeling that AT&T wants to kill the iphone market off. I suspect its so they can introduce more android phones that they can control with an iron fist and not have to deal with Apple's wishes at all.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:"like the iPad and iPhone " by night_flyer · · Score: 1

      seriously? when you think smart phone, you think iPhone, its like asking for a Kleenex, making a Xerox copy or "googling" it. Quit being so hypersensitive

      --


      Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
      Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
    2. Re:"like the iPad and iPhone " by Fjandr · · Score: 1

      Really, the #3 smartphone is what people automatically think of?

    3. Re:"like the iPad and iPhone " by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep. Really. Get out much?

    4. Re:"like the iPad and iPhone " by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      when you think smart phone, you think iPhone

      When I think 'iphone', I think "I don't understand this marketing, my crappy 40GBP 3skypephone supports custom applications (j2me - I have a gameboy emulator on it), Bluetooth (before the iphone had it) and a ton of other things like most mobile phones, why is it when blackberry, IOS and Android do it, it's considered a smart phone?"

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    5. Re:"like the iPad and iPhone " by Fjandr · · Score: 1

      Yeah, actually I do, and among my fairly sizable circle of friends I can count the number of iPhone users on one hand. Blackberry is by far the most popular amongst the geeks I know in my area, and Android devices the second. Funny how my anecdotal experience is mirrored by actual nationwide statistics, whereas you are reduced to anonymously posting a sarcastic, and ultimately baseless, ad hominem.

  45. Calculated Admission by Lead+Butthead · · Score: 2

    Now they can justify raising rates to... recapitalize for infrastructure upgrade, and includes several hundred million to... retain... talent in the... company managerial class. Frankly I would be surprised if nobody saw that one coming.

    --
    ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
    1. Re:Calculated Admission by sclark46 · · Score: 2

      Now they can justify raising rates to... recapitalize for infrastructure upgrade, and includes several hundred million to... retain... talent in the... company managerial class. Frankly I would be surprised if nobody saw that one coming.

      Yeah and also by T-Mobile, excuse why the need more frequencies.

    2. Re:Calculated Admission by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Now they can justify raising rates to... recapitalize for infrastructure upgrade, and includes several hundred million to... retain... talent in the... company managerial class. Frankly I would be surprised if nobody saw that one coming.

      No. Their customers would jump ship to other providers who have better built out networks, and then the problem would solve itself (fewer users = fewer bandwidth issues).

      Their filing with the FCC is going to be used as justification for buying out other providers (T-Mobile, Verizon, and Sprint) to "improve" ATT's network.

  46. Sprint is no better by AoXoMoXoA · · Score: 1

    I am forced (stupid enough) to pay extra for 4G serves on my HTC EVO when there is no 4G server in my area (Louisville, KY) and the 3G server that was once king is now almost unusable...coupled that with the fact that Sprint is ditching WiMAX in favor of LTE so my phone wont work on the 4G if and when it ever gets here in the first place.

    --
    Once in a while you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right. -Hunter/Garcia
    1. Re:Sprint is no better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All of those technologies are 4G. There is no 4G in America, only 3G, marketed as 4G.

    2. Re:Sprint is no better by erroneus · · Score: 1

      Find a bored lawyer to write a letter to your carrier stating that they are failing to deliver on the services you have been required to buy and that you demand they let you out of the requirement immediately. Or you could write up your own letter to that effect, but lawyer letter-head gets more attention.

  47. Good you can switch... if your device is unlocked by Lead+Butthead · · Score: 1

    But fortunately for the service providers, most of the devices are locked in to their service, even if the devices themselves are technically capable.

    --
    ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
  48. It has gotten worse lately. by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

    I have 5 bars of signal and get connection errors on both my samsung phone AND my iphone. Things that used to work flawlessly 5 months ago now complain about "slow network" and "server not responding".

    --
    She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
  49. Verizon and the EU by ItsPaPPy · · Score: 0

    Verizon and the EU rejoice!

  50. Re:Yesterday they announced profits were up 39% in by shadowrat · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'm with ya brother! There's a lot of things we can give up to liberate ourselves from the shackles of the rat race.

    For instance, I don't own any pants. I don't intend to either. I save hundreds of dollars a year. Images the TSA saves from me on their backscatter x-ray devices are hardly a concern anymore. I never suffer the humiliation of realizing that my lost car keys are, in fact, in my pocket. It's great!

    As a bonus, i don't have anything to undo when nature calls. I can afford to push off rushing to the bathroom by 2 or 3 seconds. Over a lifetime of not wearing pants that amounts to hours. That's HOURS people are wasting buckling and unbuckling their pants just to take a dump!

  51. Sorry dude, your suggestion won't work... by Lead+Butthead · · Score: 1

    Here's a thought: AT&T should upgrade their network.

    Your suggestion won't work (as in will-never-happen) because it's a technical solution to a psychological problem; namely that top officers of large company are sociopaths that not only are indifferent to the sufferings they inflict on others, but in fact thrive on it (and yes, they're getting rich off it too.) They're not going to ask for a new hand when they're holding all the cards.

    --
    ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
  52. iPhone drove that..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You sign the customers first, work out the details later. Customers are committed for 2 years, will likely be on for 4 or 6. They'll be stuck with you.

    Yeah, and?

    When the iPhone first came out and had to be used with AT&T, I just shook me head. AT&T is at the bottom of the list of carriers in most markets according to Consumer Reports. Unfortunately, people buy the handset first and then the service which is totally backwards. You should buy the service and THEN choose a handset. But no, folks just HAD to have the iPhone. And I actually know someone who was honest about the iPhone, "It's a great PDA and data device. I just wish it was a decent phone. It's like the phone feature was an after thought."

    Now, Verizon has the iPhone now and they're eating AT&T's lunch.

    1. Re:iPhone drove that..... by x*yy*x · · Score: 2

      Or what about do like the rest of the world, where handset and services are two separate things and can be mixed by customers as pleased?

    2. Re:iPhone drove that..... by Drakino · · Score: 1

      No, it should be buy a phone, then buy service, like the Europeans have. One phone works on all their providers, and thus the providers have to actually be competitive on rates and service, since they can't use unique phones to attract business.

      Also, Verizon iPhones are not eating AT&T's lunch yet. From the Q1 quarterly reports:
      Verizon: 2.2 million iPhones activated
      AT&T: 3.2 million iPhones activated

      Verizon activations are all new iPhones. AT&Ts numbers do include used iPhones being activated on new accounts too so it's hard to say exactly how much a hit AT&T is seeing. So far it doesn't look like much. Odds are AT&Ts growth will slow a little but, but not at the same exact percent as iPhones rise on Verizon. Most people will wait out their contracts on either network before making a big change. For Verizon that change could also include Android owners who bought an "iPhone like" phone, and then get the proper Verizon iPhone later.

    3. Re:iPhone drove that..... by kasperd · · Score: 1

      It's like the phone feature was an after thought.

      Maybe it is. Maybe they decided that with a bit more development, the Ipod could be turned into a PDA. And later they may have decided, that for a PDA it would be a good idea to have data connectivity wherever you go. At the time it could very well be that the cellphone network was the best way to get data connectivity wherever you go. So, it may have made sense to put a sim card in a PDA at the time. Then they may have thought that customers didn't want to buy two separate contracts from the phone companies to have one for their PDA and one for their phone, so they decided to put a phone in the PDA as well.

      All of this is pure speculation. I have no way of knowing if this is actually how it happened. But creating a PDA with a phone added as an after thought wouldn't have been unlikely.

      --

      Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
    4. Re:iPhone drove that..... by Fjandr · · Score: 1

      If only. You used to be able to move devices between AT&T and T-Mobile, but AT&T is now using their incompetence at managing their network as an excuse to take even that choice away from us.

      Given the "bigger is better" mentality in US politics today, the merger is unlikely to be stopped even if the FCC rules it can't go forward. They'll just pass legislation invalidating the FCC's ruling (assuming the FCC doesn't comply in the first place).

      There is only the illusion of choice, since the cellular networks in the US operate as a cartel. Text messaging pricing alone is enough to prove that, even if only circumstantially.

    5. Re:iPhone drove that..... by Dog-Cow · · Score: 0

      The iPod Touch was released after the iPhone.

    6. Re:iPhone drove that..... by tripleevenfall · · Score: 1

      For what it's worth, you can buy unlocked phones and activate them on more than one American carrier. I don't know if Sprint or Verizon let you do this, but I doubt they'd turn down business if you walked in and said "I have my own phone, how can I start paying you a monthly fee?"

    7. Re:iPhone drove that..... by Drakino · · Score: 1

      True, just a shame it's not as widespread or easy as it is in Europe. When I visited in 2004, I was in and out of a cell phone store in 5 minutes. Bought a package that came with a SIM, and an ATM card. If I put the ATM card in, I could then add minutes by then inserting my bank card to charge it against.

      SIM worked fine in my T-Mobile, unlocked US T610i phone.

    8. Re:iPhone drove that..... by schnell · · Score: 1

      No, it should be buy a phone, then buy service, like the Europeans have. One phone works on all their providers

      The US market is the way it is for a reason - believe it or not, it's what Joe and Jane Sixpack Cellphone User actually want.

      Nothing is stopping American cellphone users from buying a GSM phone unsubsidized and unlocked at full price. They can they price-shop between T-Mobile (who even offers SIM-only plans at a nice discount) and AT&T (although they don't offer a SIM-only discount, the tradeoff may be worthwhile in some areas for coverage). Almost any GSM phone can be used on either network, although it may not get 3G data due to T-Mobile's wacky 1700 MHz band for UMTS.*

      The fact of the matter is that most people in the US - rightly or wrongly - want to pay the kind of price for a phone that entails a carrier subsidy and contract. If you want a $650 phone for $300, you are going to have contract, simple math.

      BTW as far as lack of interoperability, that's not some anti-consumer conspiracy. It was a technology choice for Sprint and Verizon to choose CDMA technology instead of GSM like pretty much all of Europe and AT&T/T-Mobile in the US. GSM and CDMA each have their technology tradeoffs - you see one of the pluses for CDMA in Verizon's voice quality - while the notable downsides include a lack of compatibility with the rest of the world unless you buy a dual-mode CDMA/GSM phone.

      * Yes I know AT&T is proposing to buy T-Mobile. This may not be true next year. But I'm talking about the market as it is today and as it has been for the last 5+ years.

      --
      "95% of all Slashdot .sig quotes are incorrect or completely fabricated." -Benjamin Franklin
    9. Re:iPhone drove that..... by Drakino · · Score: 1

      It's possible to do it both ways. Contracts do exist for most European countries as an option, along with subsidized phones.

      And sure, it's possible in the US to buy a phone then pick service, but it's a pain. Between your mentioned T-Mobile 3G issue, and the lack of price incentives with AT&T on unsubsidized plans, it's not much of a choice.

      And while I don't see the GSM vs CDMA thing as an anti-consumer conspiracy, I do find it might annoying. It would have been nice to see the FCC step in and guide the market towards one standard back in the early days. By having the split setups, it's impossible for nearly every phone to roam onto another network for emergencies. One standard would have allowed the carriers to cover the landmass easier, by signing roaming agreements to cover the areas they don't specifically cover with their own equipment. Some roaming agreements do exist today between the compatible carriers, but it's far from being as good as it could be.

      Thankfully the future may get better in this regard. Verizon is transitioning to LTE now, as is AT&T, and many other smaller providers. Once Verizon supports voice over LTE, then maybe we can start moving more towards the situation the EU areas have.

    10. Re:iPhone drove that..... by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      Europe has contracts too but the biggest difference I generally see is, aside from the iphone, the phone is free unlike the US where you still pay something for the phone and get locked into a contract. But the phone is yours so when the contract is over you can take it anywhere where as in the US that doesn't seem to be the case or they make it exceptionally hard for you to actually do it and even if you do it there are network incompatibilities.

      The incompatibility amongst networks is purely anti-consumer freedom. They don't care about the quality of voice calls. In fact when it comes to landlines Verizon's policy always seems to have been as long as you can tell there here something then it's good enough and no improvements are necessary to the line.

    11. Re:iPhone drove that..... by nosferatu1001 · · Score: 1

      Even better - in the UK when switching between networks they are no longer allowed to take longer than 48 *hours* to transfer you, number and all.

    12. Re:iPhone drove that..... by Methuseus · · Score: 1

      Actually, in the past (I'm not sure about now) Sprint and Verizon did just that. And AT&T did too, before they bought Cingular.

      --
      Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, though I'm not yet sure about the universe. - A Einstein
  53. Re:Yesterday they announced profits were up 39% in by geekmux · · Score: 1

    $3.4 billion in profit last quarter. And yet their network is garbage. I have an idea, but it's an engineer idea, not a suit idea, so... never mind.

    Watch $3.4 billion turn into $1.4 billion, and AT&T Engineers will play the Verizon card in front of AT&T suits as their bonuses evaporate. Hey suit, can you hear me NOW?

  54. Re:Yesterday they announced profits were up 39% in by nabsltd · · Score: 1

    Hell, AT&T foots $400-$500 on the cost of a new top-of-the-line phone for me every 18 months, and in return I pay them for $700 for service during that time.

    Which means AT&T comes out $600 or more ahead, since their actual cost for the phone is almost certainly less than $100 more than you paid for it.

  55. If only... by hoppo · · Score: 1

    If only AT&T had had the foresight to charge money for their data plans. Then they'd have had additional revenue streams from all the new subscribers these devices brought to them. Hindsight is 20/20, I guess.

  56. Cry Me a F***ing River by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know an AT&T executive in Texas. He was hired mainly because his _father_ was an AT&T executive in Houston - his dad called a co-worker in another division to hire his son. Both father and son bitch about how the "good old days" are gone, yet the company would be better off without either of them.

    Anyway, it seems AT&T is a welfare state for some employees. They only care about salary and their pension, not their customers.

    1. Re:Cry Me a F***ing River by blair1q · · Score: 1

      They only care about salary and their pension, not their customers.

      That's how every company is. The good ones know how to make salary and pension commensurate with creating the marketable impression that the company cares about customers, while never admitting that the employees don't.

  57. Re:Yesterday they announced profits were up 39% in by rrossman2 · · Score: 2

    "I don't own a smartphone. don't have any plans to, either. saves me $100/mo, give or take; and no privacy to be taken away. no searches by cops/tsa/anyoneElse. no history to grab from me. no location data, either."

    Sure there is if you have a regular "dumb" phone.. call logs, text logs, GPS information (either on the phone or from the cell provider's records) even if the phone doesn't have an actual GPS receiver.. they can figure out based on triangulation from the towers in the area.

  58. Too many people forget this by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 5, Informative

    With wired networks "Just build more," is basically always an option. Connection too slow? Upgrade the equipment to faster signaling. At the max signaling? Upgrade to fiber, or to better fiber. Have the most out of one connection you can? Lay more fiber and run it in parallel.

    That isn't the case with wireless. Providers have a defined set of frequencies they can use. They can't just use more because it is licensed. Transmission power is also regulated and of course noise is out of their control. So that means bandwidth and SNR are fixed, which means the throughput you'll get is fixed (as per Shanon's Law).

    Also, since it is wireless, everyone on a given cell shares what you have. If the technology and conditions allow for, say, 5mbps you get 5mbps to split among everyone. If there's 1 guy, he gets 5mbps to himself. If there's 100 people they split it and get much less each.

    Only solution is to build out the cell towers, make them more frequent so each cell is smaller. Well and good but cost aside, people whine, they don't want to see them, they don't want them near their houses. That makes for a problem.

    There is no magic solution for this. Better technology and new frequency licenses (LTE and WiMax and all that) will help a lot (of course it costs a lot to roll out since all radios have to be augmented with new ones) but you run in to physical limits.

    1. Re:Too many people forget this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microcell towers on streetlight posts.

    2. Re:Too many people forget this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not a physical limit at the towers. It's poor software at the towers in managing the traffic. Lot's of slop in the system. But it's easier to whine about it and milk the profits as long as you can.

    3. Re:Too many people forget this by rsborg · · Score: 1

      Only solution is to build out the cell towers, make them more frequent so each cell is smaller.

      Yes, that is the solution. However, AT&T didn't keep up with it's users. Instead it CUT it's deployment spending over the past few years, while it's profits and userbase is going through the roof. Why is it that Verizon can have such consistent signal? I doubt it's just CDMA, Sprint's network sucks.

      Fact is, AT&T got lazy, and is letting down their customers and partners by refusing to keep infrastructure spending with their increased userbase and revenue. They get no sympathy from me.

      --
      Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
    4. Re:Too many people forget this by gid · · Score: 1

      That's exactly what I was thinking. If they're lower power, couldn't they have have tons of smaller ones that don't look so ugly, mounted on a telephone poll?

      Of course then you have to deal with installing and maintaining them all. Plus if a mini tower goes out, it might not affect that many people, and would probably take them forever to fix it.

    5. Re:Too many people forget this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd like a cell tower in my neighbors yard, can't stand that guy, and would rather have the hum of a cell tower to put me to sleep.

    6. Re:Too many people forget this by sixsixtysix · · Score: 1

      if that's the case, they shouldn't be allowed to get more subscribers unless the network can handle it. there should be a law, seriously.

      --
      ...
    7. Re:Too many people forget this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You forgot sectoring, eg where there might have been 1 tower with one antenna, they instead put 3 or 9 and overlap the neighboring cells on different frequencies and lower the power and angles.

      So you have 1 antenna with 360 degrees of coverage and 5 watts of power at 850Mhz, you split that into 3 sectors, one pointing to 12 o clock to 5 o clock, one from 5 to 9 o'clock and the third one at 9 to 12. This works, but you end up with more hand-overs as the customer moves from one sector to another. Too many small sectors and it becomes impossible to move as the handover process takes too long before the next cell handover starts over.

      So you overlap each sector so all the channels on tower 1 are on channel 1, all the channels on tower 2 are on channel 2, and the area that overlaps the two towers then has the choice of channel 1 or channel 2.

      You keep having to make the cells smaller when there is more congestion, so while back in 1996 you could have 1 analog tower support all 8 customers in a 10 mile radius, now you need to have a dozen towers covering the same area in smaller sectors. In large metropolitan areas, you simply run out of places that you can put high power antennas up and start having to put very-low power antennas up in small usage sectors.

      Past a certain point it's just too expensive for the cell phone carrier to put an antenna up every 50 meters, because the underlying physical backhaul can't be upgraded any further. Think of subway/rail stations, Starbucks and McDonalds, convention centers, mall food courts, etc. When it comes to these smaller areas with high density usage, it then becomes more cost efficient for the cell phone carrier to intentionally prioritize voice calls over the data activity. This is why WiFi needs to be everywhere.

      AT&T really has no excuse for this, because they own all the backhaul they use, likewise for pretty much every carrier that also operates the local physical wirelines. If anything it's T-Mobile that was probably paying for expensive backhaul.

      WiFi unfortunately never does handoff, you can't seamlessly go from one network to another because you need to get a new IP address each time. This is why IPv6 is so important. You assign a ipv6 address to the device, and that address follows it around as it hands-off to other wireless access points, updating the routing path as it goes. Right now you can only do this with the cellular network.

      Everytime I see "3G Internet" as a broadband solution I cringe and then snicker, because all forms of wireless is not a broadband solution, not at all. It's only to compliment fixed internet connections, it can't be used as backhaul. Unfortunately the higher-ups are not engineers. They just see it as a way to save money by not running physical backhaul and just relying on the wireless links. No no no. As a fail-over option yes wireless is good, but it can never be used as a replacement.

      This is why consumer 2.4Ghz wireless access points were meant for consumers to attach to their home internet connection, not as commercial scale ($$$) access points in airports and restaurants, because, again, these aren't meant to replace a fixed internet connection, they're meant to temporarily be used to look up movie tickets and restaurant locations. When P2P and Youtube became popular, these companies saw $$$ to be made by charging by the kilobyte or by time to foolish people, they don't care if the service being provided is substandard, because the click-thru agreements say that you're only paying for a connection, and not the company is not responsible for availability.

      And that is why it would have been better for small businesses to setup their own pico cells on the licensed frequency that connect to a international "mobile internet routing" backbone that is connected via regular internet. The only requirement to connecting to this is having stable internet. Should the picocell reach capacity of the underlying internet connection, it will then stop broadcasting on unused frequencies, allowing

    8. Re:Too many people forget this by schnell · · Score: 3, Informative

      Instead it CUT it's deployment spending over the past few years

      [citation needed]

      That would explain a lot but I looked it up and there appears to be no indication that's the culprit (not sure what is). Here's a link or two or three that says AT&T has increased its wireless capital spending. I found one article claiming what you say in the headline but if you read the article the jist is that the reduction in capital spending was due to a slowdown in their U-verse home fiber buildout.

      --
      "95% of all Slashdot .sig quotes are incorrect or completely fabricated." -Benjamin Franklin
    9. Re:Too many people forget this by adolf · · Score: 1

      Cell "towers" don't need to be huge if there are lots of them.

      Rather, the opposite is true: The more if them you have, the smaller they must be due to frequency overlap issues.

      Or, the corollary: The smaller they are, the more of them you can build without frequency overlap issues.

      I would welcome a small cell tower, with its supporting gear and generator, right in my own backyard or on top of my house (I have a tall house and live at the top of a hill).

      However, building new commercial communications towers (for any purpose!) in my municipality has been outright banned for the last 15 years. The consequences of this are as follows:

      1. Limited total bandwidth, and an ever-growing userbase.
      2. Genuinely giant towers popping up in a semi-circle immediately outside of the current boundaries of the -- sometimes, literally a few dozen yards away -- in an attempt to increase available capacity.
      3. Eventually, those parts with recently-built giant towers will be annexed (we're growing), and they'll be in the city anyway.
      4. Once this happens, capacity will still suck.

      I'm sure I'm not the only person here who has had an opportunity to watch such a predicament unfold.

      See also: Microcells, picocells, femtocells, and other buzzword-compliant magnitudes of "cell" that cost little and make sense...if they're allowed.

    10. Re:Too many people forget this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bah.

      They could build a cell site in my attic and pay me for the privilege. There's no lack of business and homeowners who'd take that deal.

      They're just cheap.

      This isn't a NIMBY problem.

    11. Re:Too many people forget this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is like the story we heard in the good old telephone days.
      Modems were first 300 bps, then 1200 bps, then 2400 bps but then the theorists started to chime in that the bandwidth of the telephone line would limit the maximum speed and it would not be possible to go faster.
      At some time it was possible to achieve 9600 bps but the telco said it would never be guaranteed above 2400 because this magic technology would not always work on the line.
      However, the speed increases continued. 14400. 19200. 28800. 32k. and finally 56k.
      By then we were a factor of 20 above what the initial limit was said to be.

    12. Re:Too many people forget this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're forgetting that not everyone shares the bandwidth, just those that are close to each other. So just put up more base stations that are weaker, but well spread.

    13. Re:Too many people forget this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but that is not taking into account future technologies and compression, perhaps even additional signal viability, back when Wifi was just getting started, they would never have dreamed that what is being provided today was even possible back in 1998, with time you have technology, falling for the mentality of "we know all that we can know of this technology" is much like the famous or infamous statements made by "scientists" that insisted that they had learned all there was to know about physics and that no one could learn anything new, (paraphrased) the only thing physically limited at this present time is technology and knowledge.

      That is what most people forget.

    14. Re:Too many people forget this by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      With wired networks "Just build more," is basically always an option. Connection too slow? Upgrade the equipment to faster signaling. At the max signaling? Upgrade to fiber, or to better fiber. Have the most out of one connection you can? Lay more fiber and run it in parallel.

      That isn't the case with wireless. Providers have a defined set of frequencies they can use. They can't just use more because it is licensed. Transmission power is also regulated and of course noise is out of their control. So that means bandwidth and SNR are fixed, which means the throughput you'll get is fixed (as per Shanon's Law).

      Cell towers have sectored antennas so they can put up more towers, reduce the power, aim the damn things, and the frequencies aren't a problem. This is doubly true for AT&T, which is rapidly on its way to becoming Ma Bell again, which has been gobbling up cellular providers left and right. AT&T has fiber pretty much everywhere so they can put in more towers if they choose to. Instead they choose to continue to post massive profits because that looks better on paper than building out your infrastructure. And when they are the only phone company left, which looks like a very real possibility at this point, then they will be able to tell you just where to stick your complaints.

      MA BELL GOT THE ILL COMMUNICATION

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    15. Re:Too many people forget this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah it isn't just building out, it's using the right equipment too, what you said sounds like more excuses.

  59. A good reason to reject the T-Mobile buy by erroneus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This will unquestionably be bad for all consumers. Not only from the obvious potential for ever-increasing prices, but an almost certainty that service quality will decline. AT&T has a long running history of not building out their infrastructure as they should. Demonstrably, T-Mobile has been able to despite their lower ranking in the market place and their presence has been a a limit on customer abuses by all wireless carriers.

    Letting T-mobile get absorbed will not bring this "great quality" to AT&T. AT&T is an extremely powerful and capable company. If they wanted to improve their infrastructure, they would. They would rather provide less service and abuse customers for cash. This sort of operation should be discouraged and even inhibited given that they are given the "right of way" to use the government (by the people?) licensed air waves in exchange not only for money, but with the promise that they will provide a benefit to the people and the nation. They are consistently failing in much of that and clearly where it comes to keeping their infrastructure in an improving and developing state as they should.

  60. This supposedly argues in favor of T-Mobile buy?!? by tlambert · · Score: 1

    OK, I read the article and the related filings...

    This supposedly argues in favor of T-Mobile buy?!?

    Their argument is that it would take them 5 years to build out their infrastructure compared to the purchase of T-Mobile, and how they suddenly have a 30% larger network.

    That works, as long as you assume that that network doesn't come with existing T-Mobile subscribers, and that assumption is wrong. According to the latest figures I could find: http://www.textmessageblog.mobi/2008/06/26/market-share-by-cellular-carrier/, AT&T has 71.3M subscribers and T-Mobile has 30.8M subscribers.

    So... They get a 30% larger network, but a 43% larger number of subscribers.

    How does this make things anything but worse for everyone?

    -- Terry

  61. So start charging less. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's pretty easy, your performance drops, you drop your price to compensate.

    When you rebuild a faster network, raise the prices back up.

  62. Telcos rushing to mobile because it's unregulated by elmo_dynamo · · Score: 1

    The marketing pressure you feel fromTelcos to drop your landline, and buy smartphones, tablets and 4G modems for your laptop is a result of the FCC's decision to encourage innovation by not regulating the technology and services (beyond requiring some basic 911 services.) The market is a potential goldmine compared to landline services. You can't complain about companies selling you service or bandwidth that isn't available because there's no one regulating the offerings. Market mechanisms don't work either, since none of the carriers have the capacity to offer quality service and broad coverage, and they've forced punitive contracts on us to prevent market mechanisms from working.

  63. execs are paid well to make this stuff happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Not my problem, that's why AT&T execs are making huge amounts of money, they claim to have huge amounts of talent. Perhaps the AT&T stock holders need to sue them for salary and bonuses paid to them if they can't live up to their claims of talent and make things happen.

    1. Re:execs are paid well to make this stuff happen by vijayiyer · · Score: 1

      That's great - when all else fails, sue, and be sure to sue those with deep pockets rather than those who are responsible. It's the American way.

  64. In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The sky is blue, ice is cold, and money is desirable.

  65. Well think about the costs by goombah99 · · Score: 1

    They built a network of a certain size based on some rate structure that a lot of people can afford. Then they see and 8000% increase in traffic. It might not take 80x the cost to increase capacity by 80%. And a lot of this is peak load. But it's reasonable to assume that the cost of expanding require to handle the capacity at the same margins would be at least as expensive as the network they alreayd built. If they doubled the price, people would leave. if the just increced the price for the ipad owners it would not be viable.

    So they are wedged and have to degrade their service to maintain a workable price point.

    Competition is a bitch.

    But it's not simply them being a douche to rake in profits. It's a situation where even if they erased the profit margin it would take them more than 4 years to build capacity.

    On the other hand if you merger with someone with that capacity and a revenue stream to that sustains it you can expand much faster.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  66. In Summary ... by 517714 · · Score: 1

    We have abused our customers by failing to provide them with the services they paid for. We have sold products that we cannot support and continued to misrepresent our data services as superior to those of our competitors. We have demonstrated contempt for the concept of building out our network. We have generated record profits as a result. Therefore we humbly ask the FCC to allow us to buy T-Mobile so we can be the biggest mobile provider and do more of the same.

    Thank you,

    AT&T

    --
    The US government have made it clear that we have no inalienable rights; any we do not defend vigorously will be taken.
  67. Re:Yesterday they announced profits were up 39% in by Joe+Tie. · · Score: 1

    It really is an odd combination of funny and sad seeing a tech site as old as slashdot is getting. It's a rare type that actually lets you see geeks getting older, and it's depressing how little being one seems to change the general terror of new technologies.

    --
    Everything will be taken away from you.
  68. Re:This supposedly argues in favor of T-Mobile buy by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

    So... They get a 30% larger network, but a 43% larger number of subscribers.

    Gosh, far be it from me to defend AT&T, but they're having a government problem, so I guess I have to.

    It'll take AT&T 5 years to site new towers because the FCC bureaucracy makes it take that long. That's the only reason they need to buy T-Mobile. If it took 2 months to permit a new tower, this wouldn't be an issue. The FCC is directly causing a reduction in the competitiveness of the market which will increase everybody's prices.

    So, by owning T-Mobile they'll have all the towers they need to build out their network effectively. Which they still won't do (see, I couldn't just leave it be).

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  69. Re:Yesterday they announced profits were up 39% in by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

    The unlocked Iphones have been fairly consistently priced at $850-$900. given a 24 month commitment and an $80 cell phone bill, that's $1920 + $200 for the subsidised price - assuming that att pays retail (they don't), you get about $1220 over 24 months = $50/mo for service + profit. nice business to be in.

    --
    "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
  70. But tablets don't use 3G/4G networks by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

    Don't most tablets just connect to a wireless router, and the wireless router is connected to a physical cable?

  71. Re:Good you can switch... if your device is unlock by Fjandr · · Score: 1

    Whether a phone is locked or not won't matter soon in the US, unless you plan to travel abroad. There'll be no other network to move it to. As for CDMA networks, most carriers won't activate a phone on their network that was not originally branded and sold by them, so it doesn't matter. Device independence effectively dies with the AT&T/T-Mobile merger.

  72. It won't be long... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Until we revert back to 9600 baud packet radio to get information from place to place on the good ole' ham radio airwaves to avoid going broke paying for data. Of course by that time, the FCC might have sold that chunk of spectrum off anyway...

  73. Offloading to AT&T WiFi by rtechie · · Score: 1

    The solution AT&T has been working on is offloading as much of the data traffic as possible to their hotspot network. Traffic is typically worst in metro areas where AT&T typically has hotspots so it makes sense. For example: You can't actually disable the WiFi on an iPhone (4 at least), regardless of what the UI says. As you travel around, you are silently connected to any AT&T hotspot within range and your traffic is redirected to that. The iPhone will report its' still connected to 3G. I'm pretty sure it's the same with the iPads.

    1. Re:Offloading to AT&T WiFi by tivoKlr · · Score: 1

      For example: You can't actually disable the WiFi on an iPhone (4 at least), regardless of what the UI says. As you travel around, you are silently connected to any AT&T hotspot within range and your traffic is redirected to that.

      Citation?

      --
      Ocean is land, covered with water.
    2. Re:Offloading to AT&T WiFi by ActionDesignStudios · · Score: 1

      Yeah, can you provide a link with more documentation explaining this handoff?

  74. I for one welcome our (connection lost) by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    I for one welcome our

    [CONNECTION LOST]

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  75. Re:But tablets don't use 3G/4G networks (or ...) by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    Most new tablets - due to the fact that Apple bought out almost all the tablet screens worldwide - are in fact iPads or iPad2 - and they come in two flavors - wireless (or more precisely wireless b/g/n) and 3GS (which in fact use the 3G/4G networks and thus the AT&T data plans and coverage directly affect them).

    So, in fact, it depends on which tablet you have and what you have it set to do - you can set it to only use one carrier or wireless mode, of course.

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  76. In other words.. by thisisauniqueid · · Score: 1

    In other words, they're preparing to announce they strongly oppose net neutrality -- so that they can charge heavy data users much more.

  77. I guess you can't compete saying the truth. by dfcamara · · Score: 1

    The public buy lies and there's a lot of competition selling it.

  78. They really want the spectrum... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The issue here is the best network(s) will have the best spectrum across the US. What they are saying is that without the spectrum they can't improve their network. I doubt this is truly the case but it's hard to refute without having true analysis of their network, spectrum usage and usability. So they are saying they can't provide better service without additional spectrum that would come from the TM buyout.

    Now I would say this is partly true as spectrum is in limited supply and a whole lot of demand. However, if the US Gov would have properly planned spectrum usage I don't think this would even be an issue.
    On thing I can say for VZ is that they do seem to invest in more modern tech than ATT, and now ATT is hurting because of it.

  79. Don't promise what you can't deliver by wickerprints · · Score: 1

    Otherwise, it's not anyone else's fault but your own. They're raking in the profits and government subsidies, but don't want to build the necessary infrastructure to increase network capacity. Instead, they'd just rather buy out T-Mobile, because that instantly gives them a bigger customer base to milk.

    What these telecom companies have been doing has been nothing short of criminal. Capitalism at work. Having to choose between what little competition there is, amounts to having no real choice at all.

  80. What about 'Droid? by Lord+of+the+Fries · · Score: 1

    Here's what I don't get. When there's an article like this, it's the iphone/ipad (Apple products) that are killing their network. Yet when I go into either of the local AT&T stores here, it's all about 'Droid. From the sales people to the shelf space. So what is it? Is it that:

    a) iPhone/iPad refer to specific products, but at the same time have become a synonymous moniker for all like products (kind like "Walkman" in the old days was both a specific product, but also the generic name for any portable tape player)?

    or

    b) Despite all of the 'Droid push from AT&T, there's a larger iPhone base within the AT&T network than the explosive Droid devices?

    or

    c) People who buy 'Droids don't like to use the net near as much?

    or

    d) Droid phones suck at doing net apps relative to iPhones?

    or

    e) something else?

    --
    One man's pink plane is another man's blue plane.
  81. Next Week: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Verizon buys AT and nothing of value was lost.

  82. Self-serving corporate mouthing by lanner · · Score: 1

    Whatever AT&T corporate goons.

    When it's in their favor that you claim their network is capable of handing traffic, such as when talking to Apple, investors etc, they say it is.

    When it's convenient for them to say that it isn't, in this case for the T-Mobile buyout approval, their network suddenly isn't capable.

    The only thing that I can trust is that anything they say is self-serving.

    Corporations are amoral. They are not people, and because nobody is responsible for the collective actions, nobody cares if they do or say unethical or untrue things.

  83. Re:This supposedly argues in favor of T-Mobile buy by tlambert · · Score: 1

    Sorry, but as someone who worked on the iPhone, AT&T was aware of it since very early on, so by my count, they've had 5 years already.

    -- Terry

  84. Re:This supposedly argues in favor of T-Mobile buy by schnell · · Score: 1

    Sorry, but as someone who worked on the iPhone

    Since you worked on the iPhone, you should know enough to understand that AT&T's pitch on buying T-Mobile is that they're saying the bottleneck is spectrum, and there's not enough new spectrum available today so the only way they can get it is by acquisition of existing license holders. This isn't about the number of towers (these would be consolidated in any acquisition anyway), it's about the depth of licensed spectrum available... especially since with LTE deeper contiguous spectrum increases the network efficiency in a greater than linear fashion.

    AT&T drastically underestimated the network load of the iPhone when it first launched. The way the original iPhone handled keepalives and push messaging certainly didn't help - as you should know. ;-) Since then they have tried to make up for it, and while they have only partially succeeded, anyone with cellular industry experience knows how difficult and ridiculously expensive putting in new towers, buying new spectrum and upgrading backhaul to every tower is - and that there are no simple "duh they should just upgrade the network" answers in the real-world of wireless.

    --
    "95% of all Slashdot .sig quotes are incorrect or completely fabricated." -Benjamin Franklin
  85. Re:Yesterday they announced profits were up 39% in by Jaxoreth · · Score: 1

    I'm with ya brother! There's a lot of things we can give up to liberate ourselves from the shackles of the rat race.

    For instance, I don't own any pants. I don't intend to either. I save hundreds of dollars a year. Images the TSA saves from me on their backscatter x-ray devices are hardly a concern anymore. I never suffer the humiliation of realizing that my lost car keys are, in fact, in my pocket. It's great!

    As a bonus, i don't have anything to undo when nature calls. I can afford to push off rushing to the bathroom by 2 or 3 seconds. Over a lifetime of not wearing pants that amounts to hours. That's HOURS people are wasting buckling and unbuckling their pants just to take a dump!

    So, basically you're saying that mobile carriers are pants?

    --
    In general, it is safe and legal to kill your children. -- POSIX Programmer's Guide
  86. Magic solution by currently_awake · · Score: 1

    Oh yes there is a magic solution: directional transmitters and receivers. With a directional signal path you can have multiple signals on the same frequency at the same time in the same area without interference. It's like billboards on the highway: you can look at one without the next one blocking your sight. We didn't have computer controlled phased array antenna's that could follow a transmitter in Marconi's time, so we had to use dedicated radio spectrum for each transmitter- and our rules haven't changed even though now we do.

  87. Re:This supposedly argues in favor of T-Mobile buy by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

    Sorry, but as someone who worked on the iPhone

    Out of curiosity, what did you do exactly?

    --
    Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
  88. Why are they the only ones? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It seems that China with the number of cell users approaching the total population of the US is able to accommodate the bandwidth issues, and give better coverage in the urban areas then AT&T. And they have multiple non-cooperating technology cellular companies, just like in US. Seems if a "third world" country can deliver, then the profitable AT&T in the USA should be able to deliver as well, without crying wolf to the authorities. This just smells like more bs to get pricing control and generate even more profits, without having to actually spend money for infrastructure or delivery services. Hope the regulatory agencies will be able to see through this "smoke and mirrors" farce.

  89. network can't handle traffic? by doperative · · Score: 1

    Do you mean they've been lying when they sold us our unlimited, always-on connection. In doing so, signed up a bunch of new customers but never spend enough money on upgrading the infrastructure.

  90. This isn't about spectrum by tlambert · · Score: 1

    This isn't about spectrum.

    You can increase bandwidth and carrying capacity of a cellular network by increasing tower density, with no change in bandwidth. NTT does this in Japan, and it works fine. This should be an obvious issue as a result of the radius vs. area bein > 1 (bein pi, in fact).

    Here's a study on the issue:

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fciteseerx.ist.psu.edu%2Fviewdoc%2Fdownload%3Bjsessionid%3D490881B8B7F086DD7B8C4C443124827E%3Fdoi%3D10.1.1.42.9109%26rep%3Drep1%26type%3Dpdf&rct=j&q=coverage%20vs.%20cell%20density&ei=NByzTfuANInmsQPP3djrCw&usg=AFQjCNGRRIPetr_EsDV946ldfV4E658TiQ&sig2=2AvHcX2oXQG91EcgNbNLSg

    -- Terry

  91. Re:This supposedly argues in favor of T-Mobile buy by tlambert · · Score: 1

    I can answer offline; I'm pretty easy to find.

    -- Terry

  92. I'm not as fortunate as you by tepples · · Score: 1

    How well does wireless-N work when you're sitting on the bus between home and work? Citilink in Fort Wayne, Indiana, does not offer WLAN on its buses. And how did you convince businesses in your local mall to make WLAN available to the public and not just to employees? Glenbrook Square Shopping Center in Fort Wayne, Indiana, does not offer WLAN to customers.

    1. Re:I'm not as fortunate as you by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      In Seattle, works pretty well. The entire U District is wired, and the 30 and 31 bus routes are both wired, and all of Fremont is wired, as are most of the places I go to.

      My condolences for living in a third world backwater.

      How well does wireless-N work when you're sitting on the bus between home and work? Citilink in Fort Wayne, Indiana, does not offer WLAN on its buses. And how did you convince businesses in your local mall to make WLAN available to the public and not just to employees? Glenbrook Square Shopping Center in Fort Wayne, Indiana, does not offer WLAN to customers.

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