More Nintendo Console Rumors

itwbennett writes "Nothing is official and Nintendo isn't talking, but 'industry sources' runneth over with new information about the company's new gaming console. IGN on Thursday said that Nintendo is ditching 'Wii' and will call the new console 'Stream'. And nothing connotes Internet connectivity like the word stream. 'That's an area Nintendo has really been lax on in the past,' says blogger Peter Smith. 'Pure speculation on my part but I just wonder what, if anything, will be streaming to this new console? Video? Gameplay? A strong online multiplayer component?'" Nintendo's Shigeru Miyamoto has indirectly confirmed that the new console is in development.

Comments

WTF

[Anonymous Coward]

Stream? Might as well call it "Golden Shower".

Re:WTF

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, who told you the name of the next Legend of Zelda game?

Re:WTF

[wiedzmin]

"Stream of Wii", nice.

Re:WTF

[pkinetics]

"Stream of Wii", nice.

First thought when I read that was an instant creamed porridge breakfast thing...

Hardware will be interesting

[the linux geek]

I'm curious to see what kind of hardware this thing has - there's not really a strong candidate for a processor right now. IBM's recent work on embedded PPC cores has been more along the lines of multicore low-clocked low-power designs (the PPC A2 and 4xx), which would be much faster than the 750 core used in the GameCube and the Wii but would still be unlikely to match the single-thread performance of the 970's in the Xbox 360 and the PS3. ARM isn't close to fast enough right now to deliver high-end performance and to emulate the Wii. Maybe Nintendo's building an x86 system, like the original Xbox.

Re:Hardware will be interesting

[the linux geek]

What chip, though? That's the problem. IBM has only been marketing relatively low-end cores (PPC 460) that are in between ARM-class and x64-class. That probably wouldn't be enough.

TFA suggests another tri-core 970 derivative, probably a process-shrunk version of the one in the 360, but I'm skeptical.

Re:Hardware will be interesting

[the linux geek]

The 243MHz "Starlet" is a small component of the processor, basically a service chip. The main processor is a 729MHz PowerPC G3 derivative.

Re:Hardware will be interesting

[pavon]

The Wii is already running on an ARM... wikipedia tells me it's a 243mhz ARM926se.

No. That is a tiny little processor used to handle I/O, DRM, and background downloads. Broadway is the main processor and it is a PPC.

Re:Hardware will be interesting

[sexconker]

With the right (software) development tools, the PPC architecture bests anything that Intel has in its belt.

Wow, it's like stumbling upon an island where some soldier is still defending some rock, unaware that the war is long over (and he lost).

You might want to sit down for this one:
Apple switched to Intel chips.
There's no need to continue to pretend PPC was better.

Re:Hardware will be interesting

[petteyg359]

You might want to sit down for this one:
Apple isn't God.
There's no need to lick the muddy water from Apple's footprints; it won't lead to salvation.

Re:Hardware will be interesting

[Narishma]

It's cheaper at least, that's why it very popular in the video game console world.

Re:Hardware will be interesting

[Narishma]

They aren't using OpenGL. They have their own proprietary API. In fact, I don't know of any console where OpenGL is used.

Re:Hardware will be interesting

[TavisJohn]

Why would Nintendo emulate the Wii?
None of their other consoles emulate. They all have separate processors dedicated to the other device. The DS does not emulate a GBA, it has a GBA on a chip.
The Wii does not emulate the Gamecube, it has the Gamecube on a chip.
The GBA does not emulate a GBC, but has a GBC on a chip.
The GBA add-on for the Gamecube is not emulation, but is an actual GBA that just uses the Gamecube for the controllers, power and to output to the TV.
The SNES Gameboy adapter was a full Gameboy color in a cart, the SNES was just for power, controllers and TV output.

So this new console will probably have a Wii on a chip, or will be so close to an actual Wii that it will just run Wii games. I do not think that emulation will be needed.

Re:Hardware will be interesting

[SoftwareArtist]

According to IGN, their latest information is that it will have a triple core PPC processor, similar to the one in the Xbox 360 but running at a higher clock rate. They also claim it will have an AMD R700 based GPU (that's the Radeon HD 4XXX generation).

Re:Hardware will be interesting

[ravyne]

So, you're off on your hardware specs --

The Wii uses a single-core, 32bit IBM PowerPC (a derivitive of the G3 in the original iMacs, with added MMX-like 2-wide vector operations) -- its the same thing they used in the gamecube, just 50% faster and with some minor architectural improvements.

The PS3 and Xbox use 64bit IBM PowerPC cores, but they are not a derivative of the 970 (aka G5) or any of the other big-iron PPC chips. These cores are essentially a PowerPC ISA equivilent to Intel's Atom processor (64bit, in-order, hyperthreading), albeit the console processors (at 3.2Ghz) have twice the clock speed of a typical Atom core. The Xbox 360 has 3 of these dual-threaded cores each with an enhanced altivec unit with an extended register file (128 registers instead of the usual 32) and a few special instructions thrown in (horizontal add, which is handy for dot products for instance) all of which share an L3 cache. The PS3 has only one of these dual-threaded cores, with a bog-standard altivec unit, but offloads a lot of the heavy-lifting to the SPE array (7 DSP-like processors).

The current rumors suggest that Nintendo will be sticking to a PowerPC CPU in their next system -- rumors are consistent with a derivitive of the same Atom-like PPC cores in the 360 and PS3, but could be higher-clocked, or something else entirely, and with much-updated graphics, surpassing the PS3 and 360.

My view is that ARM actually is a contender for the next gen Nintendo console -- given the relatively-weak Wii processor, several off-the-shelf ARM cores would provide Nintendo with a substantial upgrade in CPU power -- likewise, since the 360 and PS3 are *not* running 970s, a fast 2-4 core ARM processor would be fairly competetive with those platforms, CPU wise. The downside of ARM (specifically compared to PPC) is that ARM's Neon SIMD ISA is terribly limited compared to Altivec (which is nicer than even SSE), and also that no off-the-shelf SOC has graphics prowess that would compete with, much less out-do, either the PS3 or 360 (Though SOCs from even 18 months back could give the Wii a run for its money, and offer more-flexible shading.) What Nintendo would *gain* by going to ARM on their home consoles is to consolidate their technology around one ISA, which would allow them the focus their efforts with regard to their toolchain, libraries, and developer support, while also giving them a very easy path for their portables (just make their last home console portable, literally -- which they basically do in terms of capability now, but not in terms of architecture.) I don't know that Nintendo will go this route, but its what I would do in their shoes.

Re:Hardware will be interesting

[the linux geek]

IBM doesn't sell the Power7 processor, except in a limited form to Hitachi and Bull, who sell rebranded Power machines. This is why I said "embedded" in my post.

Re:Hardware will be interesting

[the linux geek]

The Cell is a PPC 970 core with some vector units bolted on.

Re:Hardware will be interesting

[spiderbiten]

I would expect they might continue with their work on the design they started with Gecko. The Wii's Broadway chip is supposedly built on the Gamecube's Gecko chip.

Re:Hardware will be interesting

[spiderbiten]

"Cell combines a general-purpose Power Architecture core of modest performance with streamlined coprocessing elements[2] which greatly accelerate multimedia and vector processing applications, as well as many other forms of dedicated computation." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_(microprocessor)

Re:Hardware will be interesting

[Tr3vin]

The PS3 can us PSGL, which is OpenGL ES 1.0 with a bunch of extra extensions. The chip powering the 3DS is OpenGL ES 1.1 compliant. Even the tech that powered the GameCube and Wii, called GX, was basically OpenGL. Often the APIs add extra functionality that exposes lower level access to the hardware, but at the core it is still OpenGL.

Re:Hardware will be interesting

[mlk]

Microsoft switched to PPC in the 360.
I'd guess more Apple products sold are powered by ARM than x86.

"Better" is really too open. Better at what? For consoles "processing power" needs to be "good enough", while price should be low. ARM and PPC are in that race.

Home machines - compatibility won.

Re:Hardware will be interesting

[Vectormatic]

The wii is well beyond the last generation, it is basicaly a gamecube turned up to 15, and that same gamecube was at the very least 90% as capable as an xbox (lets not even discus the ps2 here), given a competent programmer.

i suggest you find a wii and play metroid prime 3 on it, it looka very good for that thing, then find an original xbox and play halo on it or something

Re:Hardware will be interesting

[inglorion_on_the_net]

I'm curious to see what kind of hardware this thing has

So am I. According to the article (i.e. speculation), it will have a Radeon R700 family GPU (with support for 1080p) and a triple-core PowerPC CPU, both slightly higher performance than what the competition is currently offering. To be honest, I think that would be a bit underwhelming, especially if they are going to ask $350 to $400 for the machine. On the other hand, the original Wii wasn't impressive because of hardware performance, either - but the fun innovations made it a big success.

Re:Hardware will be interesting

[thetoadwarrior]

I assume by 970 you mean the Intel Core i7-970 which I'm not sure why you think that's in the PS3 or Xbox 360. IBM had involvement in the development of all 3 console's CPUs. The Wii uses PPC, the xbox 360 uses PPC and the Sony Cell CPU was developed by Sony, Toshiba and IBM.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_hardware

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_(microprocessor)

Quite frankly I don't see where Intel has a leg to stand in the console business. IBM is dominating this market.

Re:Hardware will be interesting

[thetoadwarrior]

They could easily achieve and beat xbox 360 and PS3 graphics with PPC. In fact the 360 uses PPC and the cell processor probably has a lot in common with PPC seeing how IBM was involved in the development of the processor.

Re:Hardware will be interesting

[thetoadwarrior]

THe main processor is PPC and the arm chip is part of the GPU.

Re:Hardware will be interesting

[Anne Thwacks]

The cell is a hardware database engine as used in mainframes. IBM did a deal with Sony to get a volume user, because somehow games consoles sell in bigger volume than mainframes :-) (PS3 programmers probably dont know how to get the best of it even now, because it comes from a very different culture)

If this plays true to form, IBM will be working hard on getting a volume buyer for its next gen mainframe hardware. And the tool chain will be the main problem for games developers once again.

Re:Hardware will be interesting

[marcansoft]

They're going to have a hard time retaining backwards compatibility in a sane manner. The CPU is easy, as long as they stick with PowerPC. But the GPU isn't abstracted out and games talk directly to the hardware. The Wii's GPU hasn't changed since the GameCube (other than clockrate), but this time around they really need a new design with proper modern features like shaders. There are four options: design a new chip that's still backwards compatible, use a new chip and emulate the old in software, keep the old chip around just for backwards compat, and just ditch backwards compatibility.

#1 is unlikely because the Wii's (and Gamecube's) GPU is very divergent compared to modern GPUs, and I somehow doubt AMD will make a complete refresh of that architecture for them, incorporating modern features while retaining 100% backwards compatibility. It'd basically be designing a modern GPU from scratch, and retaining compatibility would be a nightmare. #2 is plausible (heck, I maintain that full Wii emulation on the PS3, a current gen system, is possible), but they're going to have to put a lot of effort into making a near perfect emulator or people are going to complain. #3 is wasteful; this worked for Nintendo in the handheld space where graphics processors weren't exactly overly complex (until the 3DS at least), but I don't see them doing it with a console GPU (Sony did this and we all know how they ended up selling at a loss partly because of it). #4 is eminently possible (and it's not like this is new for Nintendo in the console space - the Gamecube to Wii compatibility was the exception for them, not the rule). I'm going to vote for #4.

And Sony is in a similar situation because, even though the PS3 does have a real OS and dynamic linking, they had the bright idea of linking in the GPU command stream drivers statically into games, so PS3 games are hardcoded to issue NV47 FIFO instructions and good luck getting them to run on any more recent NV architectures.

Re:Hardware will be interesting

[marcansoft]

The Wii doesn't emulate the Gamecube, it is a Gamecube. Just at a higher clockrate and with more peripherals. To run Gamecube games they turn those off and drop the clock rate.

They can't do that again with the Wii2 because they really need a new GPU now. This little stunt worked because the Gamecube GPU was pretty decent for its time, but if they churn out another console with the same old GX GPU they're going to be the laughingstock of the games industry (no shaders, tiny framebuffer, useless antialiasing modes... won't fly in 2012).

Re:Hardware will be interesting

[marcansoft]

Try PowerPC 970 . Which isn't exactly identical to the PPC CPU cores in the 360 or the PPU core in the PS3, but it's a reasonable comparison, at least as far as feature set.

Re:Hardware will be interesting

[vuffi_raa]

None of their other consoles emulate. They all have separate processors dedicated to the other device.

Having a dedicated processor to maintain legacy systems makes things overcomplicated and limits future design revisions. Look at Sony with the ps3,as much as I would love BC, the latter models and slim would still be far more expensive and problematic as the earlier models are if they tried to maintain BC through a chip. If they are the same general architecture though, I agree with you that it will probably be the best way to go.

Re:Hardware will be interesting

[WorBlux]

Longsoon 3b? 4 core, with 4 vector coprocessors. Sopuusedly a raw power of 128 GFlops.

Re:Hardware will be interesting

[TavisJohn]

They could easily have a new GPU that will also support the old GPU calls and such. Or they could just put 2 GPU's in it! One for GC and Wii mode, and the other GPU kicks in when you pop in a Wii2 game.

Re:Hardware will be interesting

[marcansoft]

"GPU calls"? It'd have to support the entire architecture and register and command set, verbatim, even as far as having the same cycle by cycle performance characteristics if they don't want issues with some games. That is far from "easy". In fact, I'd say it's almost impossible, short of, as you mention, having two GPUs in it. But having two GPUs would be expensive.

Re:Hardware will be interesting

[TavisJohn]

Dual GPUs would not be any more expensive than the PS3.
Besides if Nintendo wanted to hit a specific price point, they could easily do it. Even if it meant that they lost money on the console this time. Just because the Wii made a profit from day 1, does not mean that they have to do the same with the Wii 2.

I think Sony is still loosing money with every PS3 console sale.

Re:Hardware will be interesting

[marcansoft]

Dual GPUs would not be any more expensive than the PS3.

They wouldn't be any more expensive than the launch PS3, but if that's your benchmark for cost optimization you have bigger issues.

Besides if Nintendo wanted to hit a specific price point, they could easily do it. Even if it meant that they lost money on the console this time. Just because the Wii made a profit from day 1, does not mean that they have to do the same with the Wii 2.

Nintendo doesn't do the whole selling below manufacturing cost thing, and I've seen no indication that they're suddenly going to start doing it.

I think Sony is still loosing money with every PS3 console sale.

They aren't. Not for quite a while now. But they used to haemorrhage money, since the original launch PS3 was just about the most pathetically cost-unoptimized product I've ever seen. Stuff inside it: a built-in standalone Ethernet-to-WLAN AP for wireless connectivity (instead of, you know, a WiFi card), an 8-port Gigabit switch with VLAN support, a standalone NAND controller including FTL layer, a 4-port USB 2.0 hub, an IDE-SATA converter chip, a chipset with a die larger than the CPU (because it had a memory controller, video output, PCI Express, multiple support CPUs and a ton of other crap that they don't use), and of course an entire standalone PS2. Not to mention enough BGA chips to make assembly yield specialists cringe. They trimmed some stuff with the later Fat revisions, but until the release of the Slim most of it was still there. The Slim is the first non-WTF PS3 design, as far as cost-optimization.

The PS3 started out with an utterly batshit insane design, then eventually arrived at something roughly resembling what they should've been shipping from day one. The Wii started out with a perfectly reasonable design, then later revisions have been micro-optimizing cost here and there so now they have an incredibly optimized design. I somehow doubt Nintendo is going to go the way of the PS3 for next generation.

Hmm

[Ultra64]

A Stream of Wii

Re:Hmm

[Anonymous Coward]

A Stream of Wii

Soak it up with your iPad.

Re:Hmm

[certron]

Don't cross the streams! ... but seriously. What kind of name is that? No one is going to call it Nintendo Stream, they'll call it Wii 2 or Wii Stream. All the work of name recognition that was done for the Wii will have to be done again for this new system unless they come up with a 'backwards compatible' name. Rumors and speculation, the article says.

Being based on an AMD Fusion platform, however, maybe they want to move the programming model toward using 'stream processors' and have computation on the GPU as well. Then again, this is my own rumor and speculation. The stream-to-touchscreen controllers sound like the Dreamcast VMU brought into the future.

Re:Hmm

[webbiedave]

Joke on Leno tonight: Reportedly, the first game on the Wii Stream will be called Jiggle and Dance.... Jiggle and Dance ladies and gentlemen.

Re:Hmm

[bertoelcon]

What kind of name is that? No one is going to call it Nintendo Stream, they'll call it Wii 2 or Wii Stream. All the work of name recognition that was done for the Wii will have to be done again for this new system unless they come up with a 'backwards compatible' name. Rumors and speculation, the article says.

I willing to bet that "Stream" is just the development name, like "Revolution" for the Wii and "Atlantis" for the GBA.

Re:Hmm

[Bobakitoo]

I got high hope for SuperWii. Just like the NES became SuperNES. What a amazing decade of gaming!

Re:Hmm

[geekoid]

I hope the don't release the red model again. No one wants a Stream of Red Wii.

Re:Hmm

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

A Stream of Wii

Soak it up with your iPad.

Over-analyzed by your android.

Re:Hmm

[hedwards]

Indeed, it takes time to come up with a name as great as "Wii."

Re:Hmm

[Daetrin]

I kinda hate to admit it, but that part that's made me most excited so far was the part about "the system is likely to resemble a modernized version of the Super Nintendo Entertainment System (SNES)."

I _know_ it's an irrational emotional response, but i can't help it. The SNES just played way too big a part in my childhood. And remember! The "Stream" part is just a rumor as well!

Re:Hmm

[christopherfinke]

No one is going to call it Nintendo Stream, they'll call it Wii 2 or Wii Stream.

Just like everyone called the Wii the Gamecube 2, right?

Re:Hmm

[zippthorne]

Why? I...

Re:Hmm

[xtracto]

Damn right! for us kids that were amazed by the NES, the arrival of the SuperNES had a huge impact. For me, one of the factors was that I could play the Arcade games (Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter 2) *at home*! without paying a lot of Pesos. Of course the updated graphics where also amazing!

Re:Hmm

[Anne Thwacks]

Either way, I am guessing most people here with think its a pile of piss.

How much multiplayer do you want?

[damn_registrars]

Really, I think the multiplayer Mario Kart on the Wii works very well. Its easy to get going, keeps the options appropriate for a wide variety of audiences, and works very well. Sure not every Wii game supports multiplayer, but seeing what it can do, what else do you need it to do?

Re:How much multiplayer do you want?

[0100010001010011]

I have a Big TV. I want to be able to put 8 people to connect.
I want to be able to do multi-headed out where 1/2 of the players are on separate screens.

Nintendo's Shigeru Miyamoto has indirectly confirmed that the new console is in development.

Really? Does Microsoft need to 'confirm' it's working on another version of Office or Windows? How about Apple working on another iPod, iPad, iPhone, or MacBook?

Re:How much multiplayer do you want?

[Anonymous Cowpat]

I can see the headline now:
"Technology company working on next product - shock
Sources say it may be better than last product. Or worse. Either, really."

Re:How much multiplayer do you want?

[tomhudson]

I want to be able to do multi-headed out where 1/2 of the players are on separate screens.

2nd Wii, second game disk, and a wifi connection.

Re:How much multiplayer do you want?

[hedwards]

I'd be surprised if they didn't start the process pretty much immediately after launching the previous system. These things take time to develop, and I'm sure that they started the necessary research pretty much immediately.

Re:How much multiplayer do you want?

[Belial6]

Even better would be is if you didn't need a second game disk to play multi-player. I don't know a single person that played multi-player on their GB or GBA, even though the systems were technically capable. Nobody wanted to buy 2 of the carts to play 1 game. The DS on the other hand, I see people playing multi-player all the time. We have 4 of them in my house, and only 3 people. My son picks up multi-player games all the time. He sees another kid with a DS, and next thing you know they are playing multi-player.

Requiring each player to pay full price for a single game is a major problem for multi-player.

Re:How much multiplayer do you want?

[Locke2005]

I want a different kind of multiplayer -- the ability to use a Wii as a server for 8 3DS portables running Mario Kart. Running Mario Kart in split screen mode sucks.

Re:How much multiplayer do you want?

[Locke2005]

As mentioned above, running games in split-screen mode sucks. Better to require a monitor per person, but then you might as well have a separate console per person too.

Re:How much multiplayer do you want?

[Locke2005]

Mario Kart on DSi supports downloadable multiplayer, but it is limited to only the "Shy Guy" character and default Kart. You do what I did, and just break down and buy a bunch of used Mario Kart cartridges to distribute to all your kid's friends...

Re:How much multiplayer do you want?

[damn_registrars]

I have a Big TV. I want to be able to put 8 people to connect.

I'm not aware of a system that can do that now, from any manufacturer. People complain endlessly about how badly they hate multiplayer anything on the Wii, but for such a complaint to mean much it should at least be based on what other systems can do...

Re:How much multiplayer do you want?

[Belial6]

I just searched, and the going rate for Mario Kart DS is ~$25 used. That game is not worth $100 for a 4 player game. It also doesn't cover the half dozen other multiplayer games that he likes to play.

Re:How much multiplayer do you want?

[0100010001010011]

I'm not aware of a system that can do that now, from any manufacturer. People complain endlessly about how badly they hate multiplayer anything on the Wii, but for such a complaint to mean much it should at least be based on what other systems can do...

Yeah, god forbid nintendo come out with something no one else has done before.

Re:How much multiplayer do you want?

[drinkypoo]

In the past, you could get 10 players in bomberman on the Saturn. IIRC the standard multitap had six connectors, and you could even use two of those instead of the magical bomberman 10 player tap, but still for "only" 10 players.

So this has definitely been done, but the Saturn died and the desirability has probably never really been tested. I would guess, though, that there is little to no demand for 8 players on one TV for most genres.

They are building a tablet

[grumbel]

Given the rumors of a 6.2" screen on the controller this sounds more and more like they are building an iPad competitor that will get gameplay streamed from the console. Kind of like Sony already did with the PSP and PS3, which could be linked to play PS3 games on the PSP, however only a small number of games actually supported that and it was slow and laggy.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

I'd love to see...

[HikingStick]

I'd love to see online games alongside improvements to the Wii-mote style motion control. I'd love to see games that let one player control two Wii-mote type devices--one in each hand), because the possibilities would be far improved over the current Wii-mote + nunchuck system. Imagine a swords and sorcery game where one controller represents your weapon and the other a shield or focus item. Imagine spells that are activated by specific gestures. First person shooters with two firearms. It puts me in a stupor already.

Re:I'd love to see...

[kevinmenzel]

Couldn't you do that with Kinect?

Re:I'd love to see...

[h4rr4r]

The PS move does this.
The Gladiator game for instance uses one move controller for shield and one for the weapon. It is actually pretty neat. The boxing game uses one for each hand, for boxing!

Re:I'd love to see...

[Locke2005]

I'd love to see them get rid of the damn cord between Wiimote and nunchuck, and just use 2 wireless controllers. Hint to Nintendo: some people's arms are longer than your nunchuck cord! Maybe that's not a problem in Japan or with kids, but for people over 6' tall, it definitely is.

Re:I'd love to see...

[Locke2005]

A Wiimote sucks as a pointing device as well.

Re:I'd love to see...

[drinkypoo]

Nyko 87112 Nintendo Wii Wireless Kama

I got one in white. It works perfectly and seems to have very long battery life. A nunchuck skin does not fit it well, that's the only flaw IMO.

Nintendo timeline

[aztektum]

They've released a new console every 5-6 years, I wouldn't be surprised if they do show off new kit. It would be great for marketing "Those other guys are sticking with their 5-year old consoles."

They've been making money on Wii from day-1. It seems to me Sony and MS are going more long term in order to make up losses. Nintendo doesn't have that problem.

Hey, it worked for the Dreamcast

[rsilvergun]

Nintendo & Sony weren't exactly in a hurry to replace the N64 & PSOne, then along came the Dreamcast. Nintendo's in a position to do the same thing, but then again Sony could hype'em to death with the PS4. Sega made a lot of really, really bad decisions though ($100 mil for Shenmue was nuts, and the Dreamcast ad campaigns never showed those amazing games, just Sonic rapping with the NBA). Nintendo is a lot more Savvy then Sega, after all.

Glad I'm not a Nintendo engineer though. All the investors are expecting another Wii; something to turn the industry on it's head. I thought the Wii was a joke when it came out (lost count of the # of 'Play with my Wii' posts). Shows how wrong I was.

Re:Hey, it worked for the Dreamcast

[tuffy]

Sony could hype the Dreamcast to death because it was easy to get everyone to transition from the previous generation's most successful system (the PS1) to its successor (the PS2) and bypass Sega's entry entirely.

They won't necessarily be able to get everyone to transition from this generation's most successful system (the Wii) to the PS4 in such an automatic way.

Re:Hey, it worked for the Dreamcast

[WillAffleckUW]

PS4 wont be called that and is release 2014 neway

different market release name and internal name, don't expect a dev platform alpha until late 2012 and that might shift a few times

my main concern is the pricing for the dev is way too high and they don't show any desire to drop it for some reason

Re:Hey, it worked for the Dreamcast

[Locke2005]

Wii was targeted at casual gamers, not gaming fanatics. Turns out that was a good strategy, because there are a lot more normal people than there are videogaming nerds.

Re:Hey, it worked for the Dreamcast

[Anne Thwacks]

I have a Wii, and I play it almost every day, but only Wiifit and Tiger Woods Golf, and my son only plays James Bond or Mario something, because the other games we bought suck so badly they are not actually playable, There's no way I would buy another Wii game. The games either have to be $1.99 or they have to actually work! (Preferably both).

We have no other gaming platform in the house, (Angry Birds on an HTC desire or Kill Bill on Linux do not count) and in reality, I would NEVER buy another platform that does not actively encourage independent, third party games.

But I would pay real money to have Commander Keen on my Desire)

Re:Hey, it worked for the Dreamcast

[drinkypoo]

Nintendo & Sony weren't exactly in a hurry to replace the N64 & PSOne, then along came the Dreamcast. Nintendo's in a position to do the same thing, but then again Sony could hype'em to death with the PS4.

Sony cannot deliberately kill a Nintendo console with a release of fraudulent specifications as they did with Sega's Dreamcast because Nintendo does not compete on the basis of performance. They tried it with the N64 and decided they didn't like being in that position, and that was that.

Name scheme

[drb226]

Nintendo -> Super Nintendo. Wii -> Super Wii. It will be a heavily criticized name (for unoriginality), but people will still be comforted by the good ol' naming scheme, imho, and they will still preserve the "Wii" aura, while releasing the equivalent of Wii++

Re:Name scheme

[Lohrno]

I will get it just so I can brag about my "Super Wii" :)

Trademarks?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds too close to Steam, Gabe will be mad.

Re:Trademarks?

[guyminuslife]

I was going to say, if they took out the "r", Stream could be an excellent platform for delivering games over the tubes.

More like GBA-GC

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd liken it more to the Game Boy Advance Gamecube connectivity era, where a handful of multiplayer games (the greatest being Zelda Four Swords Adventures) used the GBA as a controller and personal screen for each player, allowing shared content on the TV alongside private content for each player. It solved the perpetual problem of local multiplayer: how to have some information which is public and some which is not. (Stop looking at my screen!)

Sitting in front of your television with that touchscreen also sounds oddly like a gigantic DS in your living room, with the TV as your top screen.

Re:More like GBA-GC

[Locke2005]

I agree; I kept expecting Nintendo to do a Wii game using DS for controllers (they all have WiFi, so there is no technical reason they couldn't). But then, I kept expecting them to support external USB drives to store downloadable content on too. Sure, they are trying to keep connectivity simple, but they fail at that too.

Re:More like GBA-GC

[angloquebecer]

Pokemon Battle Revolution allows 2 players with NDS and compatible Pokemon games to battle one another. The battles are displayed in 3D on the tv while the players enter their gameplay selections on their individual DS'es.

stream is dev name - mkt name is steampop

[WillAffleckUW]

and i'm already running alpha dev code to allow the iPad3 to connect to it remotely over wireless N.

going to be sweet.

i should warn you marketing has a bad habit of changing the release name, so don't etch that in stone yet.

Re:stream is dev name - mkt name is steampop

[geekoid]

I think you mean:
Don't write it in the snow just yet.

Re:stream is dev name - mkt name is steampop

[trapnest]

You made one mistake in your post, Wireless N actually exists. Should have said WiFiMax 2 or something.

Re:stream is dev name - mkt name is steampop

[WillAffleckUW]

the baseline is wireless N - usually the higher level is an optional add on so that they can work the bugs out once the spec is stable

Re:stream is dev name - mkt name is steampop

[trapnest]

I didn't expect you to back up your obvious BS, lol.

Re:stream is dev name - mkt name is steampop

[WillAffleckUW]

when the original dev for the Wii started, it was basically a gamecube.

My code doesn't care about the network, it just cares about the hw it runs on.

between $350 and $400?

[HappyEngineer]

All the speculation I see in those articles seems far fetched to me. A price between $350 and $400? They're going to court hard core gamers? The controller will have an HD screen?

If they're doing any of those things they're basically doing exactly opposite of what they've done so successfully with the Wii. I assume the console will be able to do HD video, but putting an HD screen on the remote is unlikely given that every portable game system they've ever made has had screens with a lower resolution than TVs.

Re:between $350 and $400?

[WillAffleckUW]

um, you do know how much the Nintendo 3DS sells for, right?

the price seems about right - expect this for release pricing and you should be able to find some $399 bundles with a set of games at specific retailers, plus a $299 pricing for certain marketers in the 4-6 month post-release phase.

Re:between $350 and $400?

[Locke2005]

They can introduce an HD system at twice the price, and still continue selling the Wii (perhaps cost reduced) to the low-end market for quite some time. It's not a bad strategy, really.

Re:between $350 and $400?

[Locke2005]

$259.99 at Costco.

Re:I'm still hoping for

[MachDelta]

I know! They could call it... Virtual Boy 2! :P

OT -- Slashdot UI Problem

[Anonymous Coward]

When I click on the header for these stories, the summary expands. All well and good; but if I click it again I go to the story.

When you expand the headline into a summary, clicking again should collapse it. If I actually want to read more, there should be a separate link. I think it would work well if that link were to the right of the headline.

Alternatively, you could have a collapse link to the right on all the stories, letting us collapse stories that were expanded by default. Actually now that I think of it, that's better.

Anyway, I don't care much about game consoles. I clicked once, then clicked again and got taken to the story instead of having the summary collapse back into a headline. That's annoying.

Streaming to Controller

[Purity Of Essence]

Pretty sure the unlikely name Stream would indicate the console streaming game video/audio to the touchscreen equipped controllers, either to augment traditional games, or to optionally allow game play with only the controller freeing the television for others who may wish to watch a movie or TV show.

more important ques: name of FF title for it

[WillAffleckUW]

I know i know ... stream. but it's a dev name, nor marketing.

the main question is: what will be the Final Fantasy game released for it?

Re:They need to move to solid state cartridges.

[Locke2005]

I second the motion for a lot more RAM. The current Wii sucks for internet browsing because if it's limited memory, and RAM is cheap. "Solid state carts" are passe, but you could make it run software off of external USB drives, as well as store DLC to external USB. And of course it needs higher res graphics and HDMI out, and as long as you're going to do that, might as well build in a BluRay player.

Re:I'm still hoping for

[Locke2005]

Problem is I'm pretty sure I can turn my head faster than the CPU in a console can update the screen... I've played on dedicated VR systems, and yes they were pretty laggy.

What now?

[igi-111]

And tomorrow they are going to say the new nintendo console is made of wood, got 7,32 screens and got some new silly codename. Seriously, those rumors are just too much, even for a nintendo console; my bet is a Wii 2 with a new amazing useless feature and a lot of casual games, who's with me?

My predictions

[Daetrin]

The Wii let you plug in old GameCube controllers and introduced the new Wiimote. You _could_ buy a new "classic" controller for the Wii, but it wasn't necessary.

Project Cafe (i'm really dubious of the "Stream" name) will probably let you use the old Wiimote and sensor bar while introducing the new high tech "regular" controller. There have also been rumors about upgraded motion controls (Wii Motion++?) that will be even more accurate than the Playstation Move, but they will be entirely optional.

They _may_ even make the new analog stick/touchscreen controller optional as well in order to keep the price of the console down. The Kinect and Playstation Plus (not to mention the Wii Board) may have shown that old wisdom about add-on controllers being dead on arrival is no longer true.

Two things which they really need to fix but i'm not sure if they actually will, there needs to be a way to transfer both save files and purchased Virtual Console games to the new system. And that includes those damn protected save files, one of the worst ideas ever.

And finally, what's up with the "Miyamoto has indirectly confirmed it" bit? All he's done is say that they're always working on the next iteration of hardware long before it gets announced, sometimes even before the previous hardware launches. Anyone who thinks that Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft aren't all working on new hardware right now is deluded. The only question is when they're going to announce it and when they're going to launch it.

Re:My predictions

[drinkypoo]

The Wii let you plug in old GameCube controllers and introduced the new Wiimote. You _could_ buy a new "classic" controller for the Wii, but it wasn't necessary.

There ARE games which support the classic controller and DON'T support a gamecube controller.

Project Cafe (i'm really dubious of the "Stream" name) will probably let you use the old Wiimote and sensor bar while introducing the new high tech "regular" controller. There have also been rumors about upgraded motion controls (Wii Motion++?) that will be even more accurate than the Playstation Move, but they will be entirely optional.

The only way not to piss off customers is to permit them to use old Wiimotes with Motionplus, but not to allow non-Motionplus because that would hold developers back too far; I won't even PLAY non-Motionplus games because they are too inconsistent and they piss me off. That means that the only Wii game I play any more is sports resort. Good thing I like it.

They _may_ even make the new analog stick/touchscreen controller optional as well in order to keep the price of the console down. The Kinect and Playstation Plus (not to mention the Wii Board) may have shown that old wisdom about add-on controllers being dead on arrival is no longer true.

I suspect they're more likely to try tethering again. Further, I think the 3d theory is spot on; I believe the logical thing to do with the next console to come out is to make it support ALL games in 3d or not depending on the user's television and selection. And tethering a 3d handheld to a 3d console makes extra sense, not because it really does, but BECAUSE THEY'RE BOTH 3D!@!12!!!ones!

Two things which they really need to fix but i'm not sure if they actually will, there needs to be a way to transfer both save files and purchased Virtual Console games to the new system. And that includes those damn protected save files, one of the worst ideas ever.

I doubt they will make Virtual Console games carry over, unless they should offer a trade-in program or something. Maybe they could sell our used Wiis to the third world. Save files on the actual console are going to be provided for only by the homebrew community, if anyone. I'll bet you a nickel.

And finally, what's up with the "Miyamoto has indirectly confirmed it" bit?

I found it to be pretty direct, actually.

Official emulators on GBA, GCN, and Wii

[tepples]

None of their other consoles emulate.

Nintendo GameCube emulates NES (several furnis in Animal Crossing) and N64 (Ocarina of Time + Master Quest bonus disc). Wii emulates NES, Super NES, Sega Genesis, TurboGrafx-16, Neo Geo, and two platforms with 64 in the name. GBA emulates NES as well.

Re:Official emulators on GBA, GCN, and Wii

[TavisJohn]

I forgot about the WiiWare emulation... However what the Wii emulates are much older generation consoles (Pre Gamecube). So I doubt that a really powerful processor will be needed to emulate Wii games. And if the next generation console also supports Gamecube, then I suspect they will just toss a GC on a chip in the console.

If any console maker knows anything about backwards compatibility, it is Nintendo.

Re:Official emulators on GBA, GCN, and Wii

[drinkypoo]

Let us not forget that Wii runs gamecube games... They should have put a turbo button on it :D

Compare to PC multiplayer

[tepples]

If DS gamers don't put up with buying multiple copies of games for multiplayer, then why do PC gamers put up with it, even though PC games nowadays don't even have a limited "spawn installation" to the extent of DS Download Play?

Re:Compare to PC multiplayer

[Belial6]

Many don't.

Name it WiiWii

[SirAstral]

Naturally it's what you will be holding when you do decide to cross the streams!

Reminds me of the song "My Ding-a-ling" whoops showin my age there.

Definition for wii haters at last.

[aetherian]

Finally, the largest, yet most annoying to some, argument against the wii will be brought down -- that of graphics. Far, far too many XBox fanpersons rag on the wii for it's "horrible graphics," ignoring all the other high points. Although I doubt graphics will ever be a super important thing to me, it'll be nice to not have to listen to people constantly complain about Nintendo and graphics.

Homebrew

[inglorion_on_the_net]

I am curious what options there will be for running your own software on the machine, and what the world's reaction to that will be. People will want to run their Linux and homebrew games on this machine, and it will be interesting to see if Nintendo will be supportive of that, or try to fight it. And, of course, what kind of roadblocks they will throw up and what the world will do to defeat them.

Netboot on GBA vs. on DS

[tepples]

The multiplayer in a lot of GBA games, such as Tetris Worlds, was multi-pak only. Some of this had to do with the fact that the client for a netboot game had to fit in the system's 256 KiB of main RAM, where most games were executing in place from mask ROM. It was easier to stream game data over the air on DS, where the Game Card interface acted more like a disk.

*facedesk*

[JustAnotherIdiot]

Nintendo, please, please fire whoever keeps naming your systems, and bring back whoever thought of the name "Revolution", that was 1000x better than "Wii"