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The Great Firewall of Europe
Glyn Moody writes "The Presidency of the EU's Law Enforcement Working Party wants to create [PDF] 'a single secure European cyberspace with a certain "virtual Schengen border" and "virtual access points" whereby the Internet Service Providers (ISP) would block illicit contents on the basis of the EU "black-list."' Leaving aside the fact that this won't work for lots of reasons, how seriously can you take anyone talking about 'cyberspace' in 2011?"
Give them time. At least the term "information superhighway" has largely disappeared from public discourse. That term was one of those few political terms so cheesy and clueless that it gave me a Tourette's-like tic every time I heard it...
You take them seriously when they are in a position of power. With a title like "Presidency of the EU's Law Enforcement Working Party", you better damn well take him seriously, or in the end you are not the one who is going to be laughing.
This is the kind of story I would expect coming from the US president's office, not the EU president's office. Hopefully this kind of censorship will die, like it died in Australia.
Free, liberated adults should be able to view any site (or book or pamphlet) they desire - without restriction. No government official may overrule that basic natural right of expression.
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
Don't be surprised, some politix are still in the middle of the XX century.
Yesterday, in France, at the TV, a deputy told : "Internet is new". From this, it's easy to understand all them bad ideas. It's like doctor evil in the 1st Austin Power film : all them ideas are 20 years old.
I can take it just about as seriously as a so-called tech site that has a feature article about a product being released in a new color.
who have no bleeping clue what a "schengen border" is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Ex-lawyers who noticed that the job of undemocratic dictatorship lackey is a lot easier and pays a lot better.
Note that these people are not democratically elected. Why the hell are these idiots tolerated ? I mean they're no better than Saudi's woman decapitators, or Iran's "why would you think gays exist in Iran"-moronic government, which also "allow elections*".
Morons.
* only on local level
1) Our economies aren't recovering fast enough ...censor the Interwebs!
2) The Chinese economy is growing really fast
3) Lets do what the Chinese are doing...
4)
The next logical step is for David Cameron to run over protestors at the royal wedding with tanks.
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
... welcome our new cyberspace policing, virtual shengen boarder and access point creating overlords.
Or wait a second. I might prefer the concept of net neutrality after all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_neutrality
"we are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further."
I would have thought the Frech learned the last time
"Fixed fortifications are a monument to the stupidity of man"
Seriously.
If we stop using "cyberspace", that means I'll have to stop using "meatspace", too. :(
The "Presidency of the EU's Law Enforcement Working Party"
Now, I am familiar with the concepts of "Working" and "Party" . . . I am not sure that they should be combined . . .
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
Hopefully, in 50-70 years, when kids today are old and in power, they won't be quite as bloody retarded when it comes to new technology.
What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
Here in Europe we use the term "cyberspace" to describe what in the US you call "Series of tubes".
The only thing that surprises me is that we've went so long WITHOUT more government-controlled internet firewalls. I remember telling people back in 1995 that the U.S. government wouldn't tolerate a free internet for very long. I was wrong on the timeframe, but make no mistake, it's coming. The more repressive regimes of the world were the first, but even the "progressive" governments who supposedly champion a free internet will eventually have to own up to their hypocrisy and clamp down.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
We must not let the intertubes bring truckloads of filth into the EU. All the contents of the intertubes must go through waste treatment plants that we will build at our borders. This way only crystal clear refreshing content will be carried by the tubes within the EU.
Smut and porn will not be allowed within the... wait... hold on... what do you say? what do you mean? No, that can't be true. They don't make porn in Germany, Netherlands, or Czech Republic.
This was the plan all along with the union, and illustrates the danger when power is consolidated and centralized into the hands of the few.
With many small instances of political power, the elite at the top of each pyramid are limited in what they can do, because their pyramids are limited in height (e.g. revenue, and therefore power). With one large instance of political power, the elite are sitting atop a much larger pyramid. The potential for destruction and injustice is much higher -- proportional to the height of their pyramid.
Why must government be limited in what they can do? (And I cringe that I actually have to explain this.) Because history shows that government is the most dangerous, most destructive force that has ever existed. It shows that the people who desire power work for themselves, not the people they hold power over. It also shows that where destructive power exists, destructive power will be employed -- to the benefit of the empowered, not the powerless.
The absolute worst thing that could happen in the history of humanity is a single "world" government coming to power -- the tallest, richest, most powerful pyramid that could ever exist. They would be capable of destruction and injustice on a level we can't even imagine.
Hasn't anyone learned anything from the great firewall of China?
could of, would of, I could care less, your wrong
No. You're wrong.
void main(int argc, char** argv, char** envp) { printf("hello world"); return; }
void main? Void?!
Help me Obiwan, you're my only hope.
Sorry, you're beyond hope. Seriously, void main?!
The only thing that surprises me is that we've went so long WITHOUT more government-controlled internet firewalls. I remember telling people back in 1995 that the U.S. government wouldn't tolerate a free internet for very long. I was wrong on the timeframe, but make no mistake, it's coming. The more repressive regimes of the world were the first, but even the "progressive" governments who supposedly champion a free internet will eventually have to own up to their hypocrisy and clamp down.
The problem is that some people think "progressive" means open and free and enlightened, when at its core, the whole idea of progressivism is basically nannyism... people as children that need to be cared for, with governments as the benevolent and protecting parents. Well guess what... parents lock the doors, set curfews, and make you eat your vegetables. I honestly don't think this kind of thing will fly in the US, not as long as there's a viable GOP. Our own "Net Neutrality" is never going to happen precisely because too many people fear it'll morph into this kind of nannyism. "For our own good", and all that rot.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
I think it is more oriented to protect us than to filter information.
In any case, if the EU Cyberspace contains all the current countries in the Union, namely Romania, Bulgaria and the like, sorry to say that but we already have a few major sources of attacks, spam, pr0n, phishing and any other sort of cr*p you want. So no use trying to set up this thinghy.
It is like wanting to enforce the outside boundaries to the Union. We are experiencing internal problems, immigration, Eastern European mafias, sexual exploitation,... again it is not going to solve much when your enemy is inside.
whoosh, whoosh, and whoosh again
"how seriously can you take anyone talking about "cyberspace" in 2011?"
I use that term all the time!
Signed,
mathemagician11475@aol.com
This idea is floating around for some time now. Various reasons have been given for such internet blocks: child porn, illegal gambling, drugs, .... Interestingly, the real reason has rarely been named. If you look where the money for the campaigns come from, at the end you always find the content industry.
I had a talk with some upper echelons of the biggest European Telcos a few months ago. They were complaining about the content industry spending money like water to get somehow internet blocks turned into law. Most Telcos didn't like the idea....
The idea of the content industry is, that once internet blocks are legal, they can be used to shoot down sites like PirateBay.
CU, Martin
... even the US government does it (see NSTIC, your very own digital passport for teh intarwebz).
Yurp doesn't have an institutional taboo on censorship so they can more or less openly tout it, instead of doing much the same in a haphazard manner by seizing domains willy nilly. Then again the EU doesn't sit on the keys to the domain name system so they have to think of something different. And everybody knows firewalls are good, right? Right?
Any politician is apparently required to be a complete nitwit, especially on the interconnected tubes thing.
I love how the OP's post has a link that might detail all the reasons that blacklists don't work, but the link just goes to his own blog which, of course, simply restates the post and offers no reasons. That's pretty weak.
A European firewall with a black-list so they can control what information comes and goes? Next thing you know they will start banning private firearm ownership. Oh.... wait...
' ...etc..
"We think the governance has opted for ubiquitous law enforcement"
"So now they have to run everything." The notion was terribly seductive to the authoritarian mind.
'
I recall a famous Prof of Comp.Sci. writing this 10 years back (ISBN-10: 0812536355), but then he could well have given the first description of Cyberspace.
Forgive us: we are slow on picking things up across here, Old Europe you know...
That "As long as I don't see it, it isn't there" attitude :)
Privacy is terrorism.
I never did get the Jedi.
Seriously, they're in power, the Sith are nearly extinct, and yet they decide to train someone who the prophecy says will "bring balance to the force" ?
If you're in power and hate the other guys who are almost gone, why would you want to bring balance?
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer."
Have gnu, will travel.
Seriously :P
Europe have looked at Australia, looked at the Australian backlash, and decided "we don't care, let's just propose it anyway, to show how absolutely out of touch we are."
"... and more and more now there are all kinds of electronic goodies available" -- Pink Floyd 1972
Politicians know about technology up to about the 1980s. Everything else they know comes from lobbyists.
So when they say "there has to be a way we can block or restrict access to 'X'" they fail to appreciate the technical difficulties involved in attempting that, the history of failure in making the same approach that other have made and the fact that they are talking about censorship which is a much more significant issue now than it was long ago due to the fact that people now know what they aren't getting. (Where before, people didn't know what they didn't know and were all cozy in their beliefs.)
Times have changed significantly because technology has changed and also technology has changed because of the times we live in.
Not that this is anything new, but these legislators are ruling on things they don't know enough about to rule on. Trouble is that it really shows.
Going to show you're an UTTER JACKASS, w/ this statement in particular/specifically & with documented FACTS (vs. your b.s. that's not even REALLY substantiated):
"Again, the fact that "blacklists" (a) don't work" - Posted by glyn moody at 11:07 AM
Oh, really? Ok then... I do 'blacklisting' via a custom HOSTS file here (in combination with firewall rules tables for IP addresses AND domain/host name based known bad sites that serve up various forms of exploits)... & yes, it works!
How can I say THAT? Well, I won't just say it myself... I'll let OTHERS from slashdot do the talking FOR me instead (for starters):
---
* THE HOSTS FILE GROUP 14++ THUSFAR (from +3 -> +1 RATINGS, usually "informative" or "interesting" etc./et al):
HOSTS MOD UP -> http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1907266&cid=34529608
HOSTS MOD UP -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1490078&cid=30555632
HOSTS FILE MOD UP vs ANDROID MALWARE -> http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1930156&cid=34713952
HOSTS MOD UP -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1869638&cid=34237268
HOSTS MOD UP -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1461288&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=30272074
HOSTS MOD UP -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1255487&cid=28197285
HOSTS MOD UP -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1206409&cid=27661983
HOSTS FILE MOD UP FOR ANDROID MALWARE -> http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1930156&cid=34713952
HOSTS MOD UP with facebook known bad sites blocked -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1924892&cid=34670128
HOSTS MOD UP -> http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1725068&cid=32960808
HOSTS MOD UP -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1743902&cid=33147274
HOSTS MOD UP -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1913212&cid=34576182
HOSTS MOD UP ZEUSTRACKER -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2059420&cid=35654066
---
Ok, NOW: How about DIRECT quotes from users here on /. that use HOSTS files instead:
---
"Ever since I've installed a host file (http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm) to redirect advertisers to my loopback, I haven't had any malware, spyware, or adware issues. I first started using the host file 5 years ago." - by TestedDoughnut (1324447) on Monday December 13, @12:18AM (#34532122)
"I also use the MVPS ad blocking hosts file." - by Rick17JJ (744063) on Wednesday January 19, @03:04PM (#34931482)
"I use ad-Block and a hostfile" - by Ol Olsoc (1175323) on Tuesday March 01, @10:11AM (#35346902)
"
Everybody knew this was coming. So that's why projects like Freenet, I2P, Tor and GNUnet has been developed and running for long time. It's bit harder to take those under control. Those seem to be working pretty well. I have personally tried all and using some currently.
Well, with major portions of North America, Asia, and Europe all trying to control the networks within their borders, all I can say in response is thats what happens when you declare cyberspace independent of so much political bullshit without the ability to enforce it. More Tunnels! I shamelessly promote the book "When Sysadmins Ruled the Earth" or maybe it's "The Day.." by Corry Doctorow which can be downloaded for free at his site craphoud.com and I humbly encourage everyone to refrain from violence in the global struggle for such a fundamental right as freedom of information, taking place even inside borders which have declared such a right as granted. It has begun.
Sadly, a Libertarian cannot force his views on another, and freedom cannot spread as does the cancer known as religion.
... that he doesn't mention the information highway...
It is nonsense to say that the EU stopped the major countries in Europe wanting to fight each other. You have no proof of that.
It might just be that after the horrors of the second world war and the unqualified surrender of the main protagonist, the existence of the atom bomb and the occupying US forces over the last sixty years (we still have more than 10 US bases in the UK never mind the rest of Europe) there was no hunger for a repeat. Technological advances have also made it possible to communicate more effectively and more difficult to plot a war in secret. The introduction of democracy has made dictatorship more difficult to implement too.
The EU has not contributed anything to peace.
If you think that the pressure behind the EU is anything other than a drive to impose capitalism and open markets on this population you are fooling yourself. The powers that be would just as rather get rid of your vote altogether have a Chinese style system where capitalism doesn't even have to bother with what people actually want.
Free, liberated adults should be able to view any site (or book or pamphlet)
Would you describe it as "painefully obvious common sense"?
History has shown us that the dinosaurs rule the earth. So obviously that's where we are headed.
Don't assume that the past will show us what is going to happen in the future. Technology changes everything. In the past you needed manpower to oppress another nation. We are rapidly entering an era where technology allows a relatively small minority to keep tabs on the whole population, restrict the ability of any individual or group to participate in society, and monitor and control your every transaction.
The people will not become more violent (not in an organised way at least) because they will not have the means to organise. Instead they will be isolated.
There's no need for the gulags any more. The government has you right where it wants you, going about your daily business, paying its taxes.
Aaand thanks to that article we now have people thinking there's actually a EU President like there's a US President.
My
"...self reliance frequently mistaken for selfishness."
Self reliance doesn't preclude, and is entirely compatible with selfishness.
What amazes me is that so many people who have got their hands on a larger share of the cake than most, somehow delude themselves that their gains were solely the result of self reliance.
Put Bill Gates on a desert island at the age of 13 and when we went back to take a look forty years later, there would be no operating system, no programming language, no computers, spreadsheets, editors, xboxes or anything more sophisticated than a tree house. It takes millions of people to create wealth and you can't just separate yourself off and pretend that your own wealth was solely the result of your own achievement.
For many wealthy people their greatest achievement was in the construction of an argument based on sophistry which enabled them to claim the lions share of the cake while the incredulous masses scratched their heads.
None of that is intended to demean the genuine innovation and achievement of many famous rich people (including Gates's).
Worked in Berlin for a decade or two.
C'mon. Pull the other one. It's got a dolphin with a grid of LEDs embedded in it's side.
Lawmakers who use the term "Cyberspace" won't get it anyway, this is perhaps why opposition to this kind of rubbish doesn't seem to get very far. Explain to them that the very design of the Internet means it just cannot ever be controlled or censored. Its been designed to withstand nuclear war FFS.
After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
Ganske morsomt, hadde ikke tenkt på det før men vi bruker jo ordene astronaut og kosmonaut.... møøøøø! XD
Pretty funny, hadn't thought about it before but we also use the words astronaut and cosmonaut.... mooooo! XD