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Is Canonical the Next Apple?

An anonymous reader writes "With the release of 11.04 Natty Narwhal, Canonical is taking Ubuntu in a new direction, which puts cloud services and content like music at the forefront of the Ubuntu experience. Ubuntu is no longer 'Linux,' or 'desktop' or 'netbook'; it's just Ubuntu for clients and servers. Ubuntu has its own desktop in Unity, app store (Software Center), music service and personal cloud. If Ubuntu takes off, will it make Canonical the next Apple? Of course, Canonical doesn't sell computers, but then again Ubuntu can be used on any computer, even Macs."

375 of 511 comments (clear)

  1. No. by Desler · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No.

    1. Re:No. by mikeken · · Score: 1

      Haha yes exactly what I was thinking. If this was Facebook I would like this. Before I even read the summary--just from reading the article title--I was thinking no way.

    2. Re:No. by timeOday · · Score: 1, Insightful
      It's sad to see further evidence that the PC party is over, and everybody is jumping the bandwagon of services, content, and flashy UIs (i.e. chasing Apple).

      I was a Linux desktop user for 10 years and just switched to Mac - not because of some nebulous "experience" (I still run fvwm over gnome or kde when given the choice), but I was sick of waiting for my laptop to reboot all the time, and the MacBook is the first computer I've ever used where power management actually, really works. For me it's all about nuts and bolts.

    3. Re:No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      My ubuntu 11.04 install has a proper root account, no humanity icon theme, no unity, no ubuntu cloud services, ... So yeah, pretty much what the parent said: No.

    4. Re:No. by jsvendsen · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Do you even know what Ubuntu is? Have you ever used it?

      Linux, and by extension Ubuntu, don't care about the UX.

      What? Ubuntu has always been about streamlining user experience as compared to other distributions. With varying degrees of success, sure, but that's always been their mission statement.

      The only success Linux has had is with integrated applications where the UX is designed completely from scratch by a third party private company.

      You mean like exactly what Ubuntu is doing with Unity? I almost hope you're a troll. "UX"..., sigh.

    5. Re:No. by Desler · · Score: 1

      How dare he like something you disapprove of!!! Let's call him a n00b and an idiot! That'll show him how big your e-penis is!

    6. Re:No. by timeOday · · Score: 1

      No, I am actually an expert Linux user. The fact is, power management on Linux does not normally work, and hasn't progressed in the last 7 years. I know, I was there.

    7. Re:No. by Dunbal · · Score: 2

      Are oranges the next banana?

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    8. Re:No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Actually you're just showing off your total lack of knowledge, since the whole "fvwm over gnome or kde" bit is obvious bullshit. Howzat foot taste, LOL?

    9. Re:No. by dmgxmichael · · Score: 1

      Agreed, but I'd like for you to be wrong. After 15 years of "This is the Year of the Linux Desktop" I'm not getting any hopes up.

    10. Re:No. by clang_jangle · · Score: 2, Informative

      It works just fine on my Thinkpad running gentoo. Yes, there are chipsets with little or no acpi support in Linux -- so if you like using Linux don't buy those. You *did* check your choices against the lists of supported hardware before spending, right? 'Cause that usually works pretty well over here... :)

      --
      Caveat Utilitor
    11. Re:No. by jedidiah · · Score: 2

      I dunno. I always found power management just annoying. On Windows machines it always seems to take more time to recover from hibernation than it would take for a complete restart. Also, power management tends to kick in at random and very inconvenient times. Modern Linux can boot up fast enough that not powering of the machine completely (even to the point of disconnecting from mains) is less and less meaningful.

      Also, I switched to Ubuntu because it gave me the "Mac style laptop experience" that some of these fanboys like to crow about.l

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    12. Re:No. by jedidiah · · Score: 1, Troll

      This is funny.

      One of my biggest frustrations with my most recent current Mac is the fact that there is no transparency when it comes to basic power management features that are mundane and standard even in Linux (namely CPU scaling).

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    13. Re:No. by geekoid · · Score: 1

      BSD, and be extension OSX, Don't care about the UX. They design geek software for a very niche audience who want complexity and full access by default.

      Please dn't post on /. again until you see can name your logical fallacy.

      *UX? stop sounding like an idiot..or worse a wanna be hipster geek.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    14. Re:No. by russotto · · Score: 1

      How dare he like something you disapprove of!!! Let's call him a n00b and an idiot! That'll show him how big your e-penis is!

      Let me be the first to say "WHOOSH!". That will show everyone how big my e-peen is.

    15. Re:No. by Arlet · · Score: 1

      All power management features worked fine in Ubuntu on my laptop, until I did an upgrade. Now, after I close the lid, and reopen it, the screen flickers a few times, and then often the screen resolution is messed up.

    16. Re:No. by nschubach · · Score: 1

      I also have a ThinkPad (T61) running Ubuntu that works just fine with power management. I close the lid, it goes to sleep. I open it and I have a working desktop in seconds, WiFi and all.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    17. Re:No. by sarhjinian · · Score: 1

      So, why did you use Ubuntu, then?

      I mean this seriously: if you're going to dispose of what makes Ubuntu Ubuntu (the branding, interface and security model), why not just have done and use Debian, Arch, Mint or something?

      I know I use it because of the interface (it doesn't clash with itself much, stays out of the way, and is generally polished) and I can't imaging going to the effort of pulling it out.

      --
      --srj/mmv
    18. Re:No. by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Of course this is the year of the Linux Desktop. We will need it to operate our Jet Packs and desktop Fusion reactors.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    19. Re:No. by mellon · · Score: 2

      Wow, thanks for clearing that up!

      Of course, the first thing that popped into my head when I read the line in the article where it says "Canonical doesn't make hardware" was "damn, I wish they would—we need an open source computing platform that's designed that way from the ground up instead if being designed to be locked down, and then hacked open."

    20. Re:No. by sootman · · Score: 1

      From TUAW today:

      Today Microsoft announced its net profit for the first calendar quarter of 2011. That net profit was $5.23 billion, or $760 million dollars less than Apple's $5.99 billion net profit over the same period. For those keeping track, first Apple surpassed Microsoft in market capitalization, next they surpassed Microsoft in quarterly revenue, and now Apple has surpassed Microsoft in quarterly profits. Surpassing Microsoft's net profit is quite an accomplishment given the typical high-margin sales of Microsoft's software and the lower-margin sales of Apple's hardware.

      And it's worth noting that Apple now makes the bulk of their money from things other than computers. So, to answer the article's question: no, probably not.

      --
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    21. Re:No. by timeOday · · Score: 1

      I've run Linux on a T60. And a T40. And a T400. And various Dells. I always got it to kinda sorta work. It would work the first 5 or 6 or 10 times and then crash. Or it would work, but not in combination with 3d acceleration, or the DVI outputs on the docking station wouldn't work after suspend/resume, or the wireless card would stop working. There's always a catch.

    22. Re:No. by salesgeek · · Score: 1

      First, It's a silly notion that Canonical will become the next Apple. One is a consumer products company, the other is a professional services company that uses their Linux distribution to generate business. Linux is an OS kernel. I doubt it cares much about anything other than what instruction to load to execute next. It has no GUI, and without a shell of some sort, no UX to speak of.

      Canonical distributes and operating system called Ubuntu that comes with a Linux kernel, an installer, bootloader, a variety of shells, various software packages and a GUI (which I think you are calling a "UX"). Canonical spends a lot of money on improving Ubuntu, especially the way users can find and install software as well as how their graphical desktop looks and works. That said, there's something that you don't understand about Linux and this entire FOSS universe:

      In the Linux community, we really don't care about market share, Apple's success or many of the traditional trappings. Those are the ends. Linux, and free software in general is a means to that end.... It's about the tools we have to make things or to get things done. My wife uses them to surf the web and read emails. Canonical uses it to produce an operating system that in turn creates customers for their services. My company uses them to provide electronic payments to law firms. Someone else uses them to rent virtual private servers. Another builds smartphones that can do everything but the laundry. Another makes wifi routers.

      As the tools get better, more third party companies and people will use Linux to create products. For example, many routers use the uhttpd server to deliver their web-based control panels. Linux existed long before uhttpd. The new uhttpd tool made it possible to make the control panel, and thus made the product cost less to develop, and made development happen faster. When a company like Canonical creates a new toolset like Unity, it simply enables people to do more new and cool stuff. That's the beauty of the whole free software thing. It's a feature, not an impediment.

      You shouldn't be surprised that private companies make money by grafting their user interface on top of Linux. That is what it is for.

      --
      -- $G
    23. Re:No. by timeOday · · Score: 1

      You *did* check your choices against the lists of supported hardware before spending, right?

      In my personal experience, the accuracy of those lists is very spotty. New hardware revisions come out all the time and break things; some functions on a device work, but others don't; whoever checked the box didn't happen to try the use case that's important to you.

    24. Re:No. by synapse7 · · Score: 1

      I have loaded opensuse, fedora, chakra, mint, ubuntu, sabayon and more on various laptops/netbooks and they all had multiple profiles for power management and cpu behavior. I would disagree about jumping the bandwagon on flashy UI's.

    25. Re:No. by tayhimself · · Score: 1
      You know, while you are technically correct, timeOday has a good point. My old Linux laptop (Toshiba R200 Pentium 733 Mhz) worked almost perfectly with Debian or Ubuntu. Even the little custom buttons worked. However, hibernate didn't work. Well it did if disabled wireless, but the module loading when waking from hibernate always killed the wireless. I'm sure things have gotten better but OSX is just better as far as power management is concerned.

      Look at Macbooks when loaded with Windows or Linux vs OSX. OSX works very well with PM. I won't bother mentioning the PM regression in the newest kernel. Fucking Linus and his I don't need a stable tree bullshit.

    26. Re:No. by timeOday · · Score: 1

      I'm hoping you'll write a howto on "running fvwm over gnome or kde". Only a real expert linux user could do that!

      I didn't say that as proof of my expertise. I said it to clarify what WASN'T the reason for my switch to Apple - I don't like the Apple eye candy, I don't care for the over-simplicity, and I certainly don't like their media-empire integration. I don't know why people buy iPads.

      But at the same time, I couldn't justify work hours fiddling with stuff any more, or waiting for reboots due to non-working power management.

      At home, I do still run linux. My main home computer for my family is a multi-seat setup with two independent displays, one of which serves as a PVR. I value that sort of flexibility.

      But I've realized linux has reached a plateau in supporting hardware and obscure setups - it's always progressing, but never quite catching up. The first thing I did with my new MacBook Pro is insert a bootable GNU Parted disc to make room for a linux partition for Boot Camp, but it wouldn't even boot, presumably because it's an I7 model. Is that fixable? Sure, probably. But life is short, so I skipped it. Maybe one day.

    27. Re:No. by Eponymous+Coward · · Score: 1

      I always install the most popular distribution with the default options. For the past few years, this has mean Ubuntu with Gnome. I've found that this makes finding answers to problems much easier.

    28. Re:No. by FreakyGreenLeaky · · Score: 1

      Sigh, you're about right. I'm a long-time UNIX and Linux user. Servers mostly. Have you noticed how almost every application in GNOME uses different hotkeys for common things? (eg, changing tabs, copy/pasting, etc). It's a joke really. Mention these issues and the Ubuntu apologists come oozing out the woodwork.

      Ubuntu is now changing to a new UI before sorting things with the existing UI? That's MS style, fuck that shit.

      At least the heart of Linux is still good. The kernel and GNU.

    29. Re:No. by clang_jangle · · Score: 1

      I tend to research it further after verifying it's on the relevant supported hardware list(s). User forums have saved me from making many, many mistakes. But occasionally in spite of being so careful I get bit. Seems like the sketchiest area is video chipset support, which is unsurprising considering the complexity. But you're right, it's very annoying when unqualified people verify the basics appear to work and mark it "supported" so the rest of us can throw money away and/or waste inordinate amounts of time getting it working after trying so hard to avoid that sort of thing.

      As a matter of fact, the very worst hard time I ever got from hardware listed as "fully supported" was Apple powerpc hardware. Man, they lied through their teeth about testing that G4 and ATI Rage combination I had!

      --
      Caveat Utilitor
    30. Re:No. by Raffaello · · Score: 1

      After 15 years of "This is the Year of the Linux Desktop" I'm not getting any hopes up.

      No, no, no!

      It's "we're just a year away from Linux domination of the Desktop...

        and we have been for 15 years!"

    31. Re:No. by monoqlith · · Score: 1

      Because it's easier to install a desktop system and figure out what you don't want then install a generic distribution and figure out what you do want. I think it comes down to the fact that what I do want numbers in the thousands of packages and what I don't want numbers....10.

    32. Re:No. by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Stupid lemming troll.

      The terminal is only in common usage out of PERSONAL CHOICE.

      I think you are trying to throw around the name of Windows 3.1 just because you think it sounds old. I doubt you have any clue what that comparison implies. Although you might. However it would be better for you to plead ignorance rather than that level of dishonesty.

      > When they reach Windows 95 levels then let me know.

      No. It was WinDOS that was playing catch up until they finally moved consumer Windows to an NT kernel with XP.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    33. Re:No. by Vegemeister · · Score: 1

      Take your hipster-ass corporate (ass-corporate?) buzzwords and get the fuck out.

    34. Re:No. by clang_jangle · · Score: 1

      Well if I manufacture my own hardware then my proprietary OS damned well ought to provide flawless power management, so yes of course if your top priority is hardware/software integration then by all means use a Mac. I don't have a problem with people pointing out flaws in Linux. I have a problem with people portraying themselves as "experts", and further portraying known problems many of us successfully fix everyday as "insurmountable by experts". That amounts to FUD, and I object. The fact that a few retards mod me "troll" over it doesn't dissuade me in the slightest, since all things are relative and the number of informative, insightful, or funny posts modded "troll" is very high. Moderation is not an indicator of merit, it's just kind of infotainment on the side. That's why I usually browse at -1.

      --
      Caveat Utilitor
    35. Re:No. by Desler · · Score: 1

      I'm not trying to be clever or insightful I was simply answering the asinine question. Canonical is in no way the next Apple other than in completely superficial terms.

    36. Re:No. by poptones · · Score: 1

      the dude has lots of money, and apple started in steve's dad's garage. So ya... duh. Canonical could start selling prepackaged systems in a minute.

    37. Re:No. by Raffaello · · Score: 1

      In the Linux community, we really don't care about market share

      It shows.

    38. Re:No. by MrHanky · · Score: 2

      No, really. Power management is one thing Apple does very well, whereas under Linux it's mixed. For instance, my desktop won't always return from sleep with the proprietary ATI drivers. It will when using the open driver, but with that driver, the GPU runs 20 degrees warmer.

      Of course, if you use third-party hardware and drivers under OS X, you run into the same kind of problem. Using a RaLink networking card on my old Powerbook would consistently crash it when putting it to sleep.

    39. Re:No. by stilldead · · Score: 2

      I will answer that. I use Ubuntu as a repository that is fairly current and debugged and nothing else. I used Debian for years, but Testing is always way out of date and I got real tired of debugging someones broken Perl script to get my system working again in Unstable. Ubuntu is a fairly current but debugged Unstable. I use Fluxbox as my Desktop (I even still login at a terminal and type startx when I want X), WICD for managing my wifi, and whatever else I want. Ubuntu is what you want it to be. I have all of the Debian package management tools and none of the Unstable branch headaches.

      BTW I still very much love Debian, use it regularly for when I want a highly stable server that doesn't need to be uber current, and am eternally grateful for the awesome things they do!!! Without Debian there is no Ubuntu. They are a cause worth supporting with your donations if you have some extra coin. http://www.debian.org/donations.

      --
      You are lucky, Ed Gruberman. Few novices experience so much of Ti Kwan Leep so soon.
    40. Re:No. by mjeffers · · Score: 1

      *UX? stop sounding like an idiot..or worse a wanna be hipster geek.

      I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean but, in case you don't know, UX is a widely used abbreviation for "user experience". It appears in job titles; UX Designer, UX Researcher

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_experience_design

      UX is very important to Apple and also to Ubuntu. That doesn't make them "hipster geeks", it makes them companies that realize that computers have long passed the point in their design lifecycle where functionality alone is the major selling point.

      Think about cars (to use a common analogy). In the early days, you could compete on functionality, as in "hey look, we got rid of reins and are using a steering wheel". Today, the design of a car is a major selling point. All cars need to be designed with a certain minimum level of user experience to be successful. Some companies sell great car design at premium prices because there is a wide market willing to pay a lot more for a very well designed/high performing car.

      It may not be geeky but computers have moved beyond the realm of geeks into the realm of consumers. Consumers care about experience. Embrace it or live in an increasingly small hobbyist niche market.

    41. Re:No. by Chelloveck · · Score: 1

      I dunno. I always found power management just annoying.

      I think that's a very clear indicator that you've never had a machine "where power management actually, really works".

      Really. I close the lid and put it away. I open the lid and use it again. We're talking less than 10 seconds between opening the lid and using it. Apple nailed this one.

      --
      Chelloveck
      I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
    42. Re:No. by timeOday · · Score: 1
      I MUST use MS Office for work, so for me, rebooting meant rebooting Linux *plus* rebooting the Windows VM. And our corporate Windows setup is so larded down with virus scanners etc that it is a complete dog, and takes a while to be usable after booting up. So, merely opening Outlook to check email would take several minutes.

      Part of what resulted in the Mac purchase is they finally got an updated version of MS Office, including (and most importantly) Outlook - so Windows is out of the picture.

      Migrating from that cumbersome stack to the MacBook, which wakes up within 2-3 seconds (with my applications still running and ready to) was a really big improvement.

    43. Re:No. by salesgeek · · Score: 1

      The point is when you try to see the linux community through the market share lens, you are putting rubber flippers on a duck. It's pointless.

      --
      -- $G
    44. Re:No. by biglig2 · · Score: 1

      Oh come on now, they must both be shitting themselves about Canonical's 0.0075 billion quarterly revenue.

      --
      ~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
    45. Re:No. by Daniel+Phillips · · Score: 1

      No.

      May I elaborate on that?

      God no.

      --
      Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
    46. Re:No. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I'd think that Apple makes the bulk of their money from Macs, iPod Touches, iPhones, and iPads. In other words, computers of some sort or another, most of which are locked down to some extent, and many of which have other capabilities.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    47. Re:No. by RanCossack · · Score: 1

      and the MacBook is the first computer I've ever used where power management actually, really works.

      My current job is a mac shop, so we all use macs. Overall, I'm liking it more than the last time I used Windows -- and I don't mean that as an insult to Windows, I'm just used to things working the way I think they should. :)

      I wouldn't have said Power Management works better, though. The way my mac always wants to suspend when I shut the lid, and how I can't configure it to do otherwise, even via obscure console commands (these are more common for special settings on a Mac than you'd think) -- anyway, it really annoys me.

      I was able to find a special program to inhibit sleeping, though. The most annoying thing for me now is no "focus follows mouse". :( The closest I could get was "focus follows mouse with autoraise".

    48. Re:No. by Lord_Byron · · Score: 1

      You should be able to inhibit sleep w/o a special program - just set it to Never in Energy Saver in System Preferences.

      I can't help much with the lid, though I recall hearing something about running them closed with a keyboard, mouse, & monitor attached, so there may be a way.

    49. Re:No. by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1

      Thai is the new Mexican...

      --
      We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
    50. Re:No. by RzUpAnmsCwrds · · Score: 1

      I was a Linux desktop user for 10 years and just switched to Mac - not because of some nebulous "experience" (I still run fvwm over gnome or kde when given the choice), but I was sick of waiting for my laptop to reboot all the time, and the MacBook is the first computer I've ever used where power management actually, really works.

      Maybe you should have been using Windows. I have been using sleep on my desktop and laptop for the past 6 years or so, and despite a wide variety of hardware (two ThinkPad models, an Acer budget laptop, a generic "Whitebook" laptop, an Asus EEE PC netbook, and self-built systems with Intel and AMD CPUs, NVIDIA/AMD/Intel chipsets, and motherboards from Asus/Gigabyte and even Jetway) I have never had a problem with sleep working properly.

      To be honest, I have had decent success with sleep in Linux, too. Not 100%, but in the last 5 years things have gotten considerably better, especially if you have Intel hardware.

    51. Re:No. by hitmark · · Score: 1
      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    52. Re:No. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Are oranges the next banana?

      No, because unlike Bananas, there are many cultivars of Orange.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    53. Re:No. by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      Indeed

      "With the release of the Buzzerk, Hotwheels is taking toy cars in a new direction, which puts four wheels and colors like black at the forefront of the toy cars experience. Buzzerk is no longer 'toy car,' or 'model car' or 'scale car'; it's just Buzzerk for kids and adults. Buzzerk has its own friction engine inside, orange (Paint Layer), four wheels and circular saw. If Buzzerk takes off, will it make Hotwheels the next General Motors? Of course, Hotwheels doesn't sell gasoline-fueled full size cars, but then again Buzzerk can be used on any surface, even public roads."

      Not to say Linux is like a toy car compared to a real car, but I couldn't think of a more suitable car analogy.

      Just because they both sell products with a bit of overlap, doesn't make them the same type of company.

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    54. Re:No. by jsvendsen · · Score: 1

      While I agree that the linux desktop and even ubuntu has several unsolved usability issues, you come off as someone who used ubuntu for a week in 2006 and then for another two weeks in 2008 and then decided it was always going to stay the same.

      I challenge you to spend a month running Natty and then a month running Win95. (Feel free to apply the most recent updates) Good luck finding the latter more UXillating (?) than the former.

    55. Re:No. by jsvendsen · · Score: 1

      Replied to the wrong post, obviously. None of that was directed at you, Freaky.

    56. Re:No. by aslag · · Score: 1

      ... best damned Slashdot comment ever

    57. Re:No. by FreakyGreenLeaky · · Score: 1

      No problemo - I must confess that I use ubuntu on all my desktops. I've learnt to live with it's warts. I just with they'd sort the basic stuff, you know?

      I love Linux. I almost love Ubuntu's _attempt_ at making it all GUIfied and usable. However, I no longer apologise about the problems. I've been, and will continue, recommending windows* to family and friends.

      Mark Shuttleworth has a wonderful opportunity to make something as slick as Apple's desktop. So far, I'm afraid, he has failed (sorry Mark, one fellow countryman to another).

    58. Re:No. by rylin · · Score: 1

      MBA. "Deep sleep", aka hibernation. 3 secs to fully usable.

    59. Re:No. by ToasterMonkey · · Score: 1

      Do you even know what Ubuntu is? Have you ever used it?

      Linux, and by extension Ubuntu, don't care about the UX.

      What? Ubuntu has always been about streamlining user experience as compared to other distributions. With varying degrees of success, sure, but that's always been their mission statement.

      The only success Linux has had is with integrated applications where the UX is designed completely from scratch by a third party private company.

      You mean like exactly what Ubuntu is doing with Unity? I almost hope you're a troll. "UX"..., sigh.

      The GP is right and wrong. Some Linux distributors "care" about the user experience, like well... Canonical anyway.
      He is right, they are not successful, outside things like Android. Even there, we could have a good debate on wether the user experience sucks or not.

      That's just my opinion, I'd gladly listen if you think you can explain how Linux with "stock" Gnome or KDE UI is successful, anywhere.

    60. Re:No. by jsvendsen · · Score: 1

      I didn't say there were, or even that he was wrong in saying Ubuntu would never succeed. I said that the arguments he presented were complete and utter boloney and that that indicated that he was, in fact, just pulling stuff out of his ass with no real justification.

      As a side note, the notion that stock linux has a terrible user experience does not follow logically from the fact that it is not very successful/widely deployed. There are many reasons for the very limited success of desktop linux. Suggesting that it being too difficult to use (If you assume that this is the case, which I do not.) is the only - or even the most important - reason is just not very insightful.

  2. problem is, Unity is a disaster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    People have been moving to other desktops like XFCE in droves because of Unity. Unity forces a cell phone UI on the desktop, and people hate it. There are threads with hundreds, even thousands of responses.

    There's a perfectly good UI paradigm for the desktop that's been around since the 80's. Constantly reinventing the wheel is one of the things putting non-computer experts off Linux on the desktop. With Windows, some things change sure, but the basic metaphor (icons on the desktop, a start button to launch programs, a taskbar to show your running programs) has been perfectly good for years and people are used to it.

    It's always more "fun" to invent some new half-baked thing than to spend time fixing bugs and problems, so that's what happens.

    1. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You missed the memo. We have to keep dumbing down Linux desktops until every last thing has been squeezed out. If you tailor your UI for the complete novice, as Gnome and Unity have been doing, that's great for like the first 2 days you use it. But that same philosophy causes problems for more advanced users because the features they want have been ripped out.

      Also, they tend to do these "usability studies" where they conclude feature X was only used by 5% of the users, and feature Y by 3%, so it must be OK to sacrifice them on the altar of simplicity. But everyone has a different X or Y they use, so eventually this hurts _everybody_.

      Please, Linux desktop people, STOP DUMBING IT DOWN! The world has other OSs out there for that kind of experience, We don't need to do that to every last Linux DE as well.

    2. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by 0123456 · · Score: 2

      Note that 11.04 also includes Gnome 2, so Unity is the default but optional. When 11.10 removes Gnome 2, then we'll see whether people actually want a dumbed-down UI.

    3. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by cgomezr · · Score: 1

      Or as Tolstoy would say, "All newbie users are alike; each advanced user is advanced in his own way".

    4. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by CynicTheHedgehog · · Score: 1

      Well, you got one here. FC 15 for me, or some flavor of KDE ... maybe Chakra. I'm done with Canonical though.

    5. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by supersloshy · · Score: 2

      "If I would have asked my customers what they wanted, they would have said 'a faster horse'." -Henry Ford

      I agree that Unity isn't exactly a step forward, more like a side-step, but you can't blame them for trying to innovate. If "The Year of the Linux Desktop" is ever going to come around, it won't come around by imitating the competition, but trying to be better than the competition. It might take a while to get there, but every competing effort helps.

      Also, Arch Linux is a distribution full of tweakers and minimalists; the type of people you'd expect to dislike GNOME 3. Well, here's a forum thread on the Arch BBS asking for first impressions of GNOME 3, and the average opinion is very positive. Of course some users have complaints and gripes, but that's to be expected. Quite a few of the people that don't like GNOME 3 are either trolls (as evidenced in the thread) or have very, very precise workflows and can't fit them into GNOME 3. Seriously, try it for a week with an open mind, read the documentation and tip guides, etc. and you might like it! I know I do :)

      --
      "Our country is not nearly so overrun with the bigoted as it is overrun with the broadminded." -Archbishop Fulton Sheen
    6. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Is Unity's UI really that different from OSX's (other than the launcher being on the left side instead of the bottom)? Most people aren't up in arms about OSX's user experience.

      You say there's a perfectly good UI paradigm that's been around since the 80's, but then you mention the icons on the desktop, the start button, and the taskbar in Windows as being good things... none of which were introduced in Windows until 95. Make up your mind.

    7. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by RDW · · Score: 2

      'There's a perfectly good UI paradigm for the desktop that's been around since the 80's...With Windows, some things change sure, but the basic metaphor...has been perfectly good for years and people are used to it.'

      I agree, but it looks like MS doesn't:

      http://www.withinwindows.com/2011/04/02/windows-8-secrets-windows-explorer-ribbon/

      So, with the dreaded Ribbon coming to Windows 8, the dumbed-down Gnome 3 or KDE4 desktop shipped as the default on a Linux distribution near you, and the awful Unity on Ubuntu, have we reached the stage where mainstream user interfaces have actually started to regress? The Xfce guys must be loving this! Meanwhile, imagine the interface hell we'll have when LibreOffice is inevitably ribbonized and Ubuntu ships it as the default suite under Unity...

    8. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by Yaddoshi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Unity forces a cell phone UI on the desktop, and people hate it."

      I'm probably a weirdo (actually I know I am), but I actually don't mind this release of Unity, and find that this version is significantly improved over the last one that shipped with Ubuntu Netbook Maverick Meerkat (10.10). The sidebar launcher automatically gets out of your way when you full-screen an app or drag a window to the side. It comes back when you mouse over the left side of your screen as needed. It's pretty easy to remove or add new icons (similar to how Windows 7 handles icons). It takes up a bit more space than I think it needs to, but for people who like big icons that's a plus. If you know the name of the app you want to launch, you can click the Ubuntu logo and type it into the search box, press enter, and it will launch (again similar to Windows 7).

      I think the real problem people have with Unity is that they don't like change. What everyone needs to remember is that Ubuntu does not forbid you from downloading and installing your preferred window manager and customizing it to your taste. You can also download one of several flavors already configured with alternative popular window managers, and as pointed out elsewhere the default Gnome window manager can be selected during login and will remain the default until it is changed again. So think of Unity more as a default option. If you don't like it, you still have your power of choice, and there's still a lot of customization potential out there. At some point when I have free time to tinker I will likely set up FVWM with a neat custom retro layout. Until then I will be happy to continue using Unity.

      Ubuntu is still LINUX. Anyone can set up their own distro, provided they have the time, resources and stamina to do so. That's what makes it so great.

    9. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by Eponymous+Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      For the record, I am a user who likes Unity. Sounds like I'm the only one though.

    10. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by Vegemeister · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm up in arms about the OSX user experience. What dumbass could possibly think it a good idea to put the application menus in the far top left of the screen, no matter how many applications are open, how large their windows are, or where they are located? Apple has managed to build a machine with a 2560x1440 pixel screen and a user interface that breaks down in any other use case than 'single application, maximzed'.

      I'd think it was funny if Canonical wasn't trying to imitate it.

    11. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      People have been moving to other desktops like XFCE in droves because of Unity.

      Rather than switching to the classic desktop at login?

      but the basic metaphor (icons on the desktop, a start button to launch programs, a taskbar to show your running programs)

      Unity has icons on the desktop. The application's lens and the Ubuntu button aren't that far from the start menu. Unity has a taskbar to show your running programs, it is just grouped by app now (like OSX and Windows7) and along the left.

    12. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by Eponymous+Coward · · Score: 1

      What is it that you are looking for from your GUI? As long as I can launch my most frequently used programs with ease and find lesser used programs relatively easily, I can get by just fine. Is that radically different from what you need?

    13. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by Zebedeu · · Score: 2

      Exactly. I upgraded yesterday, and after a few hours of "giving it a fair chance" I just had to go back to Gnome.

      Gnome may not be ideal, but Unity just feels unfinished. Who the hell thought it was a good idea not to have a decent easily accessible menu with all your applications?

      I'm hoping that before the next version comes out, a "Gnome spin" will have been created. Unfortunately Gnome seems to be going in the same direction, and I'm not very fond of KDE.

    14. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by Raffaello · · Score: 1

      Or as Tolstoy would say, "All newbie users are alike; each advanced user is advanced in his own way".

      I hope you realize that that means:

      newbie = happy
      advanced user = unhappy

      since the original Tolstoy quote is:
      "Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."

    15. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by ArcCoyote · · Score: 4, Informative

      log out
      select your account
      select "Ubuntu Classic" from the session menu at the bottom,
      log back in.

      Problem Solved.

    16. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by Jicehix · · Score: 1

      The Gnome 3 shell is not very different from Unity in this approach. Stupidest UI design ever.

      Do they expect eveyone to replace their desktop PC with fancy tablets or touch-based phones, or what ?

      --
      Jicehix
    17. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by grumbel · · Score: 1

      Don't forget to:

      sudo apt-get purge liboverlay-scrollbar.*

      Or else that abomination of a scroll bar might stuck around.

    18. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by iluvcapra · · Score: 1

      What dumbass could possibly think it a good idea to put the application menus in the far top left of the screen, no matter how many applications are open, how large their windows are, or where they are located?

      What dumbass wastes screen real estate with menus for applications you're not using? And a lot of those menus have exactly the same commands, over and over, except they do completely different things, and their action binds to their application, and not to their particular window, even though they're graphically bound to a window! You mean applications and windows are different things, and menus on a window are a leaky abstraction!?

      Oh wait, the Gnome and KDE people didn't actually think about how to do it better, because they were just copying Windows on account of the fact that everyone wanted a supplemental product for Windows, despite the fact they claimed to hate it.

      On the other hand, Mac OS X apps also have the ability to hold menu bars in every window, except they're called toolbars, and the distinction is mostly semantic. I think the difference is that people on Gnome expect that they'll be always using the menu to get at certain things, and that a lot of actions are only exposed through the menu and that they'll use it often, where people on OSX use the menus until they learn the keyboard commands, and then they mostly stop, except for the (generally very few) things that are only exposed through the menu.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    19. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by mixmasta · · Score: 2

      No need to move, just pick Classic from the menu at login time.

      --
      #6495ED - cornflower blue
    20. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by awfar · · Score: 1

      Unity sounds like Gnome 3.0. I am anticipating a move away from Fedora 15 simply because of it. I understand that 3.0 appears to not be a successor to 2.0, but is a different thing all together. Or that it is like maybe like an android or a tablet GUI instead of a traditional desktop metaphor, even gimmicky. What I have seen using a dev Live version I have to agree. There is a hard-core that vociferously and argumentatively claims it *the* way forward, or, basically, hit the road. They claim that there is a fallback but then say it can only be temporary as Gnome 2.x will not be further developed. But I will wait until the final version + 1 week acclimation + listen to all the screaming before final judgment.
      * I may choose XFCE or similar on Fedora instead.
      Be sure to look at the Fedora test and user lists.

    21. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by ArcCoyote · · Score: 1

      I like the overlay scrollbars.

      I just don't like Unity, mostly because I can't put it at the bottom of the screen.

      I guess Canonical doesn't want to get sued by Apple.

    22. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by Vegemeister · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Consider the following: six terminal emulator windows will fit on a 1920x1200 pixel monitor. A user wants to change the title of one of them. Which makes more sense?

      1) User moves their mouse toward the window they want to affect, opens the terminal menu, hits 'set title', and enters the title they want for that window.

      2) User moves their mouse to a distant and totally unrelated part of the screen, opens the terminal menu, hits 'set title', and enters the title they want for that window. Which actually became the title of another terminal window, which the user did not want to change, because that window had focus at the time.

      Skinflinting on screen real estate at the expense of intuitive placement and behavior only makes sense on 4 inch 800x480 pixel screen.

    23. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by supersloshy · · Score: 1

      ...which is Ubuntu with different defaults. I love Mint, I really do, but I think you'd be better off with Fedora, OpenSUSE, or even Arch Linux in the long run ;).

      --
      "Our country is not nearly so overrun with the bigoted as it is overrun with the broadminded." -Archbishop Fulton Sheen
    24. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by christurkel · · Score: 2

      I like Unity. Its very slick and well thought out. It hides the complexity and just gets out of the way. Gnome 3 is way too busy. I prefer the simplicty of Unity. Unity is the reason Ubuntu in years.

      --

      CDE open sourced! https://sourceforge.net/projects/cdesktopenv/
    25. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by RotateLeftByte · · Score: 1

      At least with Fedora you get a choice of Gnome, KDE and others all in the same install (as long as you install from the DVD)

      I use Gnome 2 most of the time but I'm moving to XFCE as Gnome 3 is nearly as bad as Unity (or should that be 'disunity?')

      --
      I'd rather be riding my '63 Triumph T120.
    26. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by nhaines · · Score: 1

      Who the hell thought it was a good idea not to have a decent easily accessible menu with all your applications?

      That'd be the Applications Lens that comes up when you press Super+A or click on the application lens icon in the Launcher?

    27. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by grumbel · · Score: 1

      I think the real problem people have with Unity is that they don't like change.

      What people don't like is crappy software, incompatibilities, removal of features and tons of bugs and Unity has more then plenty of any of that. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the core concepts of Unity, as that is basically the exact same way as every other OS out there works, the problem is that it is really bad and incomplete in actually doing what it tries to do while also wreaking havoc to a lot of important features that worked just fine in the past.

      Why for example did they have to replace the panel with a different panel that looks pretty much the same, except it can't do anything that the old panel could do (creating multiple panels, allowing applets, etc.)? Wouldn't it have made a hell of a lot more sense to simply allow the current panel to contain the menubar as option? Same for the dock thing, why does that have to be a special incompatible gadget thing, why can't it extend the current function of the classic panel? Why can't I have applets in there? Why is the configuration so limited?

      There is nothing wrong with change, but change should be done to improve and fix things, Unity doesn't do any of that. It simply shuffles things around and breaks a lot in the process.

    28. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by jd · · Score: 1

      This is the one thing I can NEVER comprehend about systems like Gnome or KDE. They came out in an era where modular was the way to be. They are packaged in a modular fashion. The libraries are all dynamically linked and all the OS' that matter support dynamic loading at runtime not just at load time.

      Is it so horribly wrong to have a GUI experience that works with the user rather than having the user comform to it?

      I want to see a GUI where if even 1 person uses a feature, that feature exists and can be loaded. Where you aren't obligated to ship everything to everyone, but only those bits that are actually needed. Nothing superfluous at all, yet no restrictions or limits either. I want to see a GUI that doesn't look the same on every machine to all users, but looks the same to the same user on any machine.

      How long have kernel modules been in Linux? Has even one (serious) person ever complained that no two Linux kernels expose identical APIs? Has even one (serious) vendor ever had problems with it?

      So why are GUIs opting for the Windows 2.0 look rather than the Linux 2.6 look? What is wrong with these guys? Do I have to write the damn thing myself?

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    29. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Actually, the 80's paradigm is pretty shitty. Why should I ever spend time manually tiling my workspace, making sure windows dont overlap? Have you ever seen a cluttered desk before? It's basically the "perfectly good" UI paradigm since the 80s.

      If you've used an iTouch, or droid, or OLPC and liked the experience, guess what, its a modal design that doesn't have these issues. If you use workspaces with your windows set up the way you want? Basically modal design, which is different than the 80's classic. I, for one, welcome new techniques that pull us out of window anarchy.

      People were once accustomed to wiping their ass with hay, but that doesn't mean toilet paper isn't better.

    30. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by Zebedeu · · Score: 1

      Yes, that one. I find it confusing, and it's difficult to get a complete listing of your installed apps.

      I can't test it anymore because I switched to standard Gnome, but it always took me a few clicks and a bit of hunting around to find the apps I was looking for (specifically, configuration).

      Perhaps I missed something obvious, but my feeling was that Unity is confusing and not ready for general usage.

      It's too bad, too. I like Gnome 2, but it's not perfect, and I don't really care for KDE. I was really (and I still am) hoping for a fresh take on the PC desktop, but I don't think this is there.

    31. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by diegocg · · Score: 1

      KDE has not followed that path, and at the same time they have fixed most of the UI annoyances of KDE 3.X.

    32. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by FoolishOwl · · Score: 1

      No, you're not the only one.

      While there are a few criticisms I have of Unity, I think that overall, it's a significant improvement, and I find it easier to use than any other GUI I have tried.

      I've been using Ubuntu since Hardy, and this is the first version that the other members of the household really like using.

    33. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by nhaines · · Score: 1

      It does take a little getting used to. I still tap Super to bring up the Dash and then start typing away, but for casual browsing, well, I'm hoping there are improvements to be made. :) I don't think Unity is confusing at all. In fact, after using it for about two months I really enjoy it--although I really did have to give it a try and it's only been the last 3 weeks where it's really felt solid.

      I don't see anything wrong with the GNOME 2 desktop with panels, but between Unity and GNOME Shell I definitely greatly prefer Unity. But what I'm most grateful for in Linux is that the desktop environment and window managers are all decoupled from each other and the OS itself so that we really do have as much choice as we're willing to configure.

    34. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by Risen888 · · Score: 1

      I actually don't mind this release of Unity, and find that this version is significantly improved over the last one that shipped with Ubuntu Netbook Maverick Meerkat (10.10). The sidebar launcher automatically gets out of your way when you full-screen an app or drag a window to the side. It comes back when you mouse over the left side of your screen as needed. It's pretty easy to remove or add new icons (similar to how Windows 7 handles icons). It takes up a bit more space than I think it needs to, but for people who like big icons that's a plus. If you know the name of the app you want to launch, you can click the Ubuntu logo and type it into the search box, press enter, and it will launch (again similar to Windows 7).

      So what you're saying is...it's a phone. Okay. If that's the UI you want, good deal, but it's not the UI a lot of people seem to want.

      I think the real problem people have with Unity is that they don't like change.

      No, I think the real problem is that they don't want...a phone UI.

      What everyone needs to remember is that Ubuntu does not forbid you from downloading and installing your preferred window manager and customizing it to your taste.

      I think "what everyone needs to remember" is that they can also download and install a distro that does what they want. If Ubuntu does that for you, cool. But if it doesn't, rather than fucking around trying to force it to, you could just run Debian or something. Just a thought.

      --
      Hey, I finally got my first freak! Took you long enough!
    35. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by Risen888 · · Score: 1

      Until 11.10. Then you're fucked.

      --
      Hey, I finally got my first freak! Took you long enough!
    36. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by psydeshow · · Score: 2

      What is wrong with these guys? Do I have to write the damn thing myself?

      I think we all know the answer to those questions, unfortunately: they aren't you, and yes.

      The worst part of writing great software is knowing that you could build a better mousetrap, for any value of mousetrap, and at the same time realizing just how mind-numbingly long it will take you to do so. This is why good coders eventually give up and go into management.

    37. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      I've nearly narrowed my computer use to my xoom and an aws server. The xoom does 90% of what I need a computer to do. Email, web+flash, chat, make and edit movies, ssh to my server, photo management, etc...

      my PC is mostly just for games.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    38. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by duncan3dc · · Score: 1

      There's a perfectly good UI paradigm for the desktop that's been around since the 80's. Constantly reinventing the wheel is one of the things putting non-computer experts off Linux on the desktop. With Windows, some things change sure, but the basic metaphor (icons on the desktop, a start button to launch programs, a taskbar to show your running programs) has been perfectly good for years and people are used to it.

      I'm using Unity at the moment, I have icons on my desktop, I have a button in one corner that I can use to launch programs, and there is a bar on the left on side showing my running programs. What is this UI paradigm you speak of that Unity has supposedly thrown away?

    39. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by mehemiah · · Score: 1

      newbie = happy advanced user = unhappy

      sounds about right to me ^_^

    40. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by mehemiah · · Score: 1

      i believe you should switch to fluxbox.

    41. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I upgrade to Ubuntu 11.04 today. After it finally finished, I did a reboot. In anticipation of seeing the new Unity on my system and find out what all the hype was about, I was greeted with the message, You do not have the hardware to run Unity. Select classic at login.

      Just Damn! Guess I won't know for myself if it is cool or a problem.

    42. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by mehemiah · · Score: 1

      Thats why the mouse acceleration curve is so high.

    43. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You don't really provide any evidence other than anecdotal "moving in droves" when there are plenty of people out there who like Unity.

      And then you mention icons on the desktop, a start button to launch programs, and a taskbar to show your running programs, all of which Unity provides. By default Ubuntu doesn't ship icons on the desktop (we let users just put whatever they want on there, it's a clean slate) however it supports putting whatever apps or documents you want on there.

    44. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by CynicTheHedgehog · · Score: 1

      I've been watching Gnome shell for some time now. When I saw the first prototypes I thought "ick". However, I've got to say that the finished product looks a lot better. I read the design documents (most, if not all of them) and there is at least a logical reason for every design choice that was made. Plus it has been in development forever, and has been refined. Most of the feedback I've heard about Gnome 3/Shell is positive.

      Unity, by contrast, is basically a rapid prototype. It was started primarily to address issues with screen real estate, and then developed organically in reaction to criticism. Having used Unity, the primary difference, to me, is that things are just plain harder to find now. It's like when Office went to the ribbon interface--change for the sake of change, and little to no benefit. Consequently, the majority of feedback for Unity I've seen has been negative.

      So I plan to give Gnome 3 a try, if for no other reason than the notification/IM system looks great. If that's done as well as it looks, then I can forgive a lot of the other stuff. If not, there's always KDE, which has been looking really good since 4.6.

    45. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1

      Well, I usually have 2-3 console windows open at a time on my Ubuntu desktop, so I can actually do what I want. I really only use the "UI" for things like browsing and playing music...

      --
      We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
    46. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by ceswiedler · · Score: 1

      I'm guessing a lot of those same people also need something more customizable and hackable than an iPhone. Guess that's a disaster too, eh?

    47. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by Vegemeister · · Score: 1

      Not to mention non-linear.

    48. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by ceswiedler · · Score: 1

      So you're mad that Canonical decided you weren't its target audience? Do you also complain that Mexican soap operas aren't very understandable to people who don't speak Spanish?

    49. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by man_of_mr_e · · Score: 1

      That's how software evolves and becomes stable. At some point, people have to start USING it, and by using it, you shake out the bugs and the product becomes stronger overall. In particular, this is how a lot of Linux software becomes mature. Think back to when PulseAudio was released. Many people had the same arguments.

      Software only becomes mature through use by more than just the developers and a handful of beta testers.

    50. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by iluvcapra · · Score: 1

      "Set Title" is Apple-Shift-I.

      Don't you think having to manually set the title of a terminal window is sortof redundant? Isn't the host name and process sufficient?

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    51. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by grumbel · · Score: 1

      Think back to when PulseAudio was released. Many people had the same arguments.

      The difference is that Linux audio is a mess and always has been, current Gnome is not, it is actually quite functional. But instead of improving that, they throw it away and reinvent it, with a whole swoop of new bugs, missing features and other crap.

      Thats really by far the biggest issue Linux has: Every few years people reinvent the shit from scratch, never does it get to a point where the user interface stuff is actually fully featured and stable.

      Also the introduction of PulseAudio wasn't exactly great either, making sure that it for example works proper together with OpenAL would have been nice instead of breaking a whole swoop of Linux games. Ubuntu Sound Preferences are still kind of an incomplete joke.

    52. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by fox171171 · · Score: 1

      The wife just got a new laptop, it has win7 on it. I can honestly say I hate it. Change for the sake of change isn't cool. Can't seem to customize it the way I like it. (It was rather convoluted in XP, but at least I could do it.) The whole thing seems horrible to me. Takes up too much valuable screen space too. Win8 seems to increase that trend. At least the "close window" button is still in the right place!

    53. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by RobbieThe1st · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up!

      The thing is, we already have this. Right now, you can choose from at least five different desktop-"configuration" sets(DE+other bits) with a single command -- sudo apt-get install *ubuntu-desktop.
      On top of that, theres loads of tweaks that can be done to each of these DE-sets, and whole chunks can be replaced easily. Heck, I'm running KDE desktop, Metacity for my WM & decorator, and a bunch of GTK apps. I'm also running the same basic configuration I've had for three or so Ubuntu versions, porting my /home/ folder each time.

      Now, to be honest, I think Gnome 3 is a problem and should be dropped - Whereas in Gnome 2 you could simply install a nice tool to select your theme, now they've decided that "users shouldn't need to do that", and made me have to use gconf-editor to do it. Not smart, idiots -- Theming is one of those things that everyone likes to mess with.
      Unity, on the other hand... I can see it being useful for certain applications, like tablets and netbooks. On a laptop? No. On a desktop? Very NO.
      Wayland may be useful at some point, but I won't be using Unity with it.

    54. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by Cloud+K · · Score: 1

      Also, they tend to do these "usability studies" where they conclude feature X was only used by 5% of the users, and feature Y by 3%, so it must be OK to sacrifice them on the altar of simplicity. But everyone has a different X or Y they use, so eventually this hurts _everybody_.

      Best argument I've heard for Alternative Vote yet!
      (/uk_current_affairs)

      I don't see how Unity is even simple. If all you want to do is web browse, sure - it's easy enough to see Firefox on the copy of OSX's Dock (if you know to look for the Firefox icon - I guess many would be looking for a blue 'e'?)

      When you want to look for other applications it took ME - a computer user of about 25 years - a while to figure out that you had to find the "other applications" icon then use this almost-hidden little drop-down in the top-right to choose a category of application and show a list. It's AWFUL.

      I'll wait for Canonical to copy OS X Lion (they're only up to Tiger so far but they're trying hard to copy Apple, bless them) - that has an iPad-style launcher, which while not as intuitive as the Start Menu from 1995, is still a lot more intuitive than Unity's launching system.

    55. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by RobbieThe1st · · Score: 1

      Very true... Aside from "breaking" the Dolphin Search in KDE 4.6(In 11.04). Frigging idiots should have left it alone; It's now not possible to use advanced search bits like was available in the last version.... I find myself going back to the command line for a lot of my searches(3 gnu find)

    56. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by Cloud+K · · Score: 1

      With all this backlash, it'd be incredibly short-sighted of Canonical not to AT LEAST significantly improve Unity - enough to tame the hatred it's garnered.

      Sticking to their decisions won't do them much good if everyone has moved on to some other highly compatible Debian derivative as an easier alternative to tweaking their apt sources to some unofficial GNOME repository and trying to maintain it as an option.

    57. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by Short+Circuit · · Score: 1

      Desktop metaphor has been around since the 80s. I don't know when a 'Launcher' button first came around, but it didn't hit Windows until Windows 95/Windows NT4, and I remember it being weird and confusing for those of us who had been accustomed to Win3.1's Program Manager. Even worse was the addition of that 'X' button in the upper-right corner of windows. I closed many applications I hadn't meant to while trying to maximize them.

      The "desktop" metaphore has been undergoing changes every few years for as long as it's been around. Personally, I think overlapped windows are a poor deal to begin with, but it's taking mobile devices and limited screen space for more people to notice that.

      Microsoft comes out with a new, infuriating rewrite of the desktop every 4-6 years. I really don't think Linux poking around every 2-3 years is going to have a a major offputting effect to people who are new to Linux. It's much more offputting to those of us who have been using Linux on the desktop for over a decade.

    58. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by bmo · · Score: 1

      >while not as intuitive as the Start Menu from 1995

      Yes, because you click on the start icon to shut down.

      Yup, intuitive.

      The "Windows is intuitive" meme makes me want to bang my head against the wall until bloody.

      --
      BMO

    59. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by DadLeopard · · Score: 1

      To say nothing of the problem many are having when they install Ubuntu 11.04 and find out that their video card is not compatible with the new OS, well unless they are willing to give up accelerated 3D and be content with a 2D environment for their OS, and that doesn't even work very well!

    60. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by Mista2 · · Score: 1

      Thank god this is Linux then, not Windows. You can still install whatever UI you want. Don't like Aero on Windows or Aqua n OS X? Tough. Don't like Unity, simply type "sudo apt-get install gnome-desktop" (or similar, I'd have to check the new package name), or wait for Kubuntu, or try Linux Mint, I believe they are staying with Gnome for the default GUI.

    61. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by mehemiah · · Score: 1

      I Second and Third this notion. There is an effort. You may have heard of Wayland. One thing I like about the Linux Community is their eagerness to move on to a possibly better solution when it presents itself. Systemd is an example of this, the very fact that we're using X.org instead of Xfree86 is another. I find the UI innovations of Gnome3 to be refreshing, i am willing to live with the pain if it means that we still get innovation on the front.

    62. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by mehemiah · · Score: 1

      ... im going to let it slide that a line is not a curve. Do you mean Discontinuous? I hadn't noticed.

    63. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by shish · · Score: 1

      I don't like it yet, but looking at canonical's track record:

      • - NetworkManager was shit when first introduced, but after a year or two of the general public testing it and bug reporting, it's now the best network management tool
      • - PulseAudio was shit when first introduced, but after a couple of years public testing, it's now the best audio layer (okay, still not as stable as raw alsa; but I don't see raw alsa sending skype audio to my headset, media player audio to my HDMI TV, and music to my other PC's auto-discovered speakers over the LAN)
      • - Unity was shit when first introduced, it's been 6 months and it's still not great, but it's improved a lot and will improve a lot more with public testing

      So yeah, if you don't want to be a guinea-pig for the not-quite-ready next generation of software, Ubuntu is not for you. Debian is. Go install that and quit whining :-P

      --
      I mod down anyone who says "I will be modded down for this", regardless of the rest of their comment
    64. Re:problem is, Unity is a disaster by amobley1108 · · Score: 1

      Agreed! If you don't like Unity, you can easily use GNOME, KDE, or whatever. Thats the beauty of Ubuntu and Linux in general.

  3. First thing they need to do by Moryath · · Score: 5, Funny

    is start picking better names for their releases.

    Compare - Apple side: "Kodiak", "Cheetah", "Puma", "Jaguar", "Panther", "Tiger", "Leopard", "Snow Leopard."

    with - Ubuntu side: "Warty Warthog", "Hoary Hedgehog", "Breezy Badger", "Dapper Drake", "Edgy Eft", "Feisty Fawn", "Gutsy Gibbon", "Hardy Heron", "Intrepid Ibex", "Jaunty Jackalope", "Karmic Koala", "Lucid Lynx", "Maverick Meerkat", "Natty Narwhal", "Oneric Ocelot"...

    The Apple side is short, and carries images of animals all well-reputed and seen as powerful and respected predators.

    The Ubuntu side sounds like the cast list from a crappy saturday morning cartoon show.

    Just sayin'...
     

    1. Re:First thing they need to do by uofitorn · · Score: 1

      Thanks. Good story.

      --
      "What kind of music do pirates listen to?" -Paul Maud'dib
      "Yeeeaaarrrrr n' Bee!!" -Stilgar, Leader of Sietch Tabr
    2. Re:First thing they need to do by Moryath · · Score: 2

      Ok I know you're just flaming, but what the hell.

      Which would you rather name your sports team:

      The "Wolverines?"

      Or the "Dippy Dogs?"

      Think carefully. The same principle applies to selling an operating system. Or we can make it a car analogy - you'll sell more of the same car by naming it the "Mustang" instead of the "Cute Cuddly Kitten."

    3. Re:First thing they need to do by xouumalperxe · · Score: 2

      Actually, I'd call their naming strategy a success. In discussions about Ubuntu, I mostly see versions being referred to by the adjective part of the Adjectivated Animal pattern, rather than attempting to refer to the actual version name. People comparing Jaunty to Karmic seems to work remarkably well, unlike comparing 9.04 to 9.10, but like comparing Tiger to Leopard. Plus, ever since Breezy, they've been sticking to incrementing the initials of the name with every version, which is a damned handy mnemonic.

    4. Re:First thing they need to do by Moryath · · Score: 1

      The problem is, even non-apple folks can generally identify the names of the Apple OSX versions.

      Mention "Ubunty Jaunty" to a non-linuxhead and you'll get a blank stare.

      Try to sell (e.g. convince people to switch over to) "Ubuntu Jaunty" from their current OS, and you'll get it likewise.

      See my previous comment to another person above. Want to sell a brand of car? Name it "Mustang" instead of "Cute Cuddly Kitten", you'll sell more.

      Linux-heads never pop their head out into the real world long enough to understand that marketing works for a reason... sigh...

    5. Re:First thing they need to do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually, the Ubuntu names are much easier to search for because they are less common. I always figured that this was their motive for choosing them. For example, you can type "natty virtualbox" or "lucid virtualbox" and get relevant results quickly and easily, that are zeroed in on what you are looking for.

    6. Re:First thing they need to do by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      The last release will probably be the "Zombified Zebra" :-)

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    7. Re:First thing they need to do by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      Ok I know you're just flaming, but what the hell.

      Which would you rather name your sports team:

      The "Wolverines?"

      The Buckeyes.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    8. Re:First thing they need to do by E+IS+mC(Square) · · Score: 1

      Same here. I have never managed to remember the name. In fact, searching for some particular feature/bugs etc for a given version of Ubuntu is a nightmare for me - without knowing the names. So then there is the extra search for looking for correct name for a given number - which evaporates from my memory within 5 minutes.

      In general, why do we need names while numbers work perfectly fine? Ubuntu version number scheme is one of the best and is very easy to remember it. Android is following the same confusing pattern of names/numbers. Seriously, I don't get it. I know it's related to marketing etc - but still.

    9. Re:First thing they need to do by tangelogee · · Score: 1

      Or we can make it a car analogy - you'll sell more of the same car by naming it the "Mustang" instead of the "Cute Cuddly Kitten."

      Well, there was the Pinto, or the Beetle, or just say screw it and go with G8, TT, and other equally stupid number-letter combinations...

    10. Re:First thing they need to do by jo42 · · Score: 3, Funny

      "Gracious Goatse".

    11. Re:First thing they need to do by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > The problem is, even non-apple folks can generally identify the names of the Apple OSX versions.

      I think you need to lay off the cool-aid.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    12. Re:First thing they need to do by couchslug · · Score: 1

      The whole cutesy thing with Ubuntu can't change.

      It's what the boss wants, end of story.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    13. Re:First thing they need to do by Moryath · · Score: 3, Informative

      Howso? I'm not a Mac person nor am I a Linuxhead. But I can tell you that most non-Mac people can name at least one of the Apple release titles, probably more, whereas mentioning Ubuntu will get you that blank stare.

      The Ubuntu guys suck at marketing. Most of the Linux world sucks at marketing. One of the biggest reasons it's so hard for them to get any appreciable marketshare in the desktop world is that despite giving away what is very serviceable, functional product for free, they suck at marketing.

      And without marketshare, how are you going to get the rest of the ecosystem to port over to you? Answer is, you aren't. Without a certain amount of marketshare, you can't get games ported, you can't get office applications ported, you can't even convince many of the makers to hire someone to make sure they are interoperable. And "Open Standards Open Standards Whee" as chanted by 4-year-old wannabe cheerleaders doesn't do crap for you when you're trying to sell adoption to someone and they have to interact with their clients, who all just-so-happen to use OSX or Windows with some form of MS Office (now with .DOCX so that OpenOffice is no longer interoperable... not that it ever rendered anything more than basic Excel docs correctly anyways) installed.

    14. Re:First thing they need to do by mangu · · Score: 4, Funny

      I think you mean "Gaping Goatse".

    15. Re:First thing they need to do by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Interesting note, All the animal Apple chose are endangered species.

      I wonder how many non geek Mac owner actually no the code name for their OS?

      G

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    16. Re:First thing they need to do by PitaBred · · Score: 1

      That's why it's branded as Ubuntu 11.04. Jaunty is the internal code-name, and doesn't matter to most people. Just like Apple sells it as OS X 10.7 or whatever stupid numbering they have, Ubuntu does the same thing.

    17. Re:First thing they need to do by Captain+Spam · · Score: 1

      The problem is, even non-apple folks can generally identify the names of the Apple OSX versions.

      Mention "Ubunty Jaunty" to a non-linuxhead and you'll get a blank stare.

      I hardly think that's the fault of the names. Even the most non-Linux of people can recognize the alphabetical array of alliteration in Ubuntu's names. Alliteration is catchy, and the alphabetical nature of them gives a quick at-a-glance idea of the comparative newness of two versions without resorting to numbers. I don't even remember what version number "Natty Narwhal" is, but I know it's newer than "Maverick Meerkat", which in turn is past "Karmic Koala" somewhere along the line. Did "Tiger" come before or after "Panther"? Was there even a "Panther"?

      Rather, I think it's far more that Apple neatly shoves the codenames of their OS versions down everyone's throats, Apple and non-Apple folks alike, via the media's never-ending fascination with them. Ubuntu doesn't get mainstream media coverage, Apple does. It's momentum, pure and simple. Names aren't going to change that.

      --
      Demanding constant attention will only lead to attention.
    18. Re:First thing they need to do by gerddie · · Score: 1

      ... but only after the xenophobic xenomorph ...

    19. Re:First thing they need to do by imgumbydamnit · · Score: 1

      Exactly! University of Maryland: Terrapins, University of Delaware: Blue Hens, MIT: TIM (the Beaver) ...

      --
      To err is human. To arr is pirate.
    20. Re:First thing they need to do by jank1887 · · Score: 1

      releases aren't that far apart. what happens after Z?

    21. Re:First thing they need to do by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      The naming scheme for Ubuntu is terrible.

      Most technical people and even normal users I come in contact with don't refer to Apple OS releases by the marking name, but by the number. "10.6" rather than "Snow Leopard".

    22. Re:First thing they need to do by DigitaLunatiC · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry your memory sucks and all, but having a really unique or unusual word to add to a search is amazing. If you search for the name of your distro, an application name, and a version number you'll get decent results. If you search for your distro, an application title, and a unique identifier that tons of people have thankfully adopted and put in their articles and posts, you get much improved search results. You need to learn/remember one new adjective every six months, and it will always start with the next letter in the English alphabet relative to the last one.

    23. Re:First thing they need to do by Moryath · · Score: 1

      "Aargh Aardvark."

    24. Re:First thing they need to do by kangsterizer · · Score: 1

      Or just use 1.0 2.0 3.0.
      I'm personally tired with the 2000 code name that sounds "so cool its ridiculous" for the 200 projects out there.
      News flash: weirdo code-names aren't cool or original anymore.

      At least simple numbers are usefuL. Whats newer, Koala or Ibex? Right. Whats newer 2.0 or 4.0 ? Now that's easy.

    25. Re:First thing they need to do by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      ....I will say it again.

      Ease off the cool-aid.

      Unless you are a Slashdot or Engadget user then you are likely barely aware of Macs. Never mind actually keeping up with their cutesy names for releases.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    26. Re:First thing they need to do by Vegemeister · · Score: 1

      But the Pinto is a joke. "Our Lady of Blessed Acceleration, don't fail me now!"

    27. Re:First thing they need to do by Vegemeister · · Score: 1

      Best if pronounced, 'Jag-yoo-ahhr'.

    28. Re:First thing they need to do by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      Ubuntu has a release number as well. I currently have 10.10 on my laptop; I don't know which animal that corresponds to.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    29. Re:First thing they need to do by Raffaello · · Score: 1

      "Oneric Ocelot"

      From a Mac OS X user's perspective, the next version of Ubuntu should be called "Otiose Ocelot."

    30. Re:First thing they need to do by Farmer+Tim · · Score: 1

      I'd guess since it's printed in large type on the installer disks and boxes, quite a lot. My observation is the non-technical naming scheme seems to work well for people who aren't that technically inclined, and very few of the Mac users I encounter know which minor point revision they're on.

      --
      Blank until /. makes another boneheaded UI decision.
    31. Re:First thing they need to do by r0b!n · · Score: 1

      The Apple side is short, and carries images of animals all well-reputed and seen as powerful and respected predators.

      This is a big warning sign to me that Apple is a company that takes itself too seriously.

    32. Re:First thing they need to do by tangelogee · · Score: 1

      And the Rabbit, let's not forget the Rabbit!

    33. Re:First thing they need to do by tangelogee · · Score: 1

      touche.

    34. Re:First thing they need to do by VortexCortex · · Score: 1

      I wonder how many non geek Mac owner actually no the code name for their OS?

      My girlfriend does! She uses a Mac, and whenever she tries to use some of my simple terminal apps, after a few minutes the inadequate OSX terminal starts spewing garbage characters she "no"s the hell out of her OS's code name: "no..No... NO NO NO, GAWD DAMN Snow Leopard!" can be heard all through the house...

      The problem is due to the MACs shitty support of UTF-8. We've spent hours and days configuring OSX terminal to handle UTF-8, and according to the "Geniuses" at the Apple store, it should "just work" -- But it doesn't. I've even ran her connection through a proxy to check the data for bugs, but there are none, it's perfectly valid UTF-8 and displays just fine on Linux and my Windows terminal emulator...

      She's really not a geek -- the terminal apps use ncurses to provide a simple GUI (w/ mouse support), she clicks the icon to launch the remote terminal session, enters her password and sometimes it works, other times, she "no"s her OS's code name...

    35. Re:First thing they need to do by Infernal+Device · · Score: 1

      There actually *is* an app for that.

      iTerm2.

      Now quit enabling your girlfriend's issues with laziness.

      --
      "My God...it's full of trolls!"
    36. Re:First thing they need to do by Rary · · Score: 1

      Plus, ever since Breezy, they've been sticking to incrementing the initials of the name with every version, which is a damned handy mnemonic.

      Until October, 2017 rolls around...

      :)

      --

      "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein

    37. Re:First thing they need to do by Risen888 · · Score: 1

      The problem is, even non-apple folks can generally identify the names of the Apple OSX versions.

      You need to get out more.

      --
      Hey, I finally got my first freak! Took you long enough!
    38. Re:First thing they need to do by John+Whitley · · Score: 1

      Umm, nonsense? Results for "snow leopard virtualbox" and "lion virtualbox" look pretty reasonable. I didn't even have to add "os x" to disambiguate.

    39. Re:First thing they need to do by Kielistic · · Score: 1

      How much does Apple spend on marketing compared to Canonical? Should Canonical spend its whole budget on marketing instead of development? I'm sure you'll be the first to bring up how much money Apple has/is making. Well with that money they can afford lots and lots of marketing. And with lots and lots of marketing more people will know their name.

    40. Re:First thing they need to do by Algae_94 · · Score: 1

      numbers do make it faster to determine which version is newer, but it isn't that difficult to put two names in alphabetical order to determine which is newer.

    41. Re:First thing they need to do by LordVader717 · · Score: 1

      And the whole world uses Apple? I couldn't tell you what the most recent OSX is and I couldn't really care. I don't buy them.
      Unless you're a felinologist their names and images are just too similar in concept to tell apart.

    42. Re:First thing they need to do by inglorion_on_the_net · · Score: 1

      I can't moderate because I already posted, but you made me laugh. Good one!

      --
      Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
    43. Re:First thing they need to do by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1

      Bing Bungholes!

      --
      We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
    44. Re:First thing they need to do by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1

      Weirdo codenames haven't been cool in a loooong time. Give me dot releases anyday.

      --
      We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
    45. Re:First thing they need to do by kangsterizer · · Score: 1

      Doesn't work so well with non-ubuntu. Also, Z is pretty near.

    46. Re:First thing they need to do by Fencepost · · Score: 1

      "Gratuitous Goatse"
      "Tasty Tubgirl"

      I can't think of any other shock pics offhand, and I'm certainly not going to go looking for them just to try and come up with (more) disgusting or not-so-clever names.

      --
      fencepost
      just a little off
    47. Re:First thing they need to do by Cloud+K · · Score: 1

      Natty is actually a Cheetah because it's copying Tiger :)

      Only 11 more Ubuntu releases then they'll be at Zealous Zebra and in need a new naming convention...

    48. Re:First thing they need to do by Burpmaster · · Score: 1

      Yes, I'm sure it has nothing to do with Apple's huge TV advertising budget and presence of physical products in stores. Linux doesn't have high market share just because you're not in charge of naming the releases.

    49. Re:First thing they need to do by Your.Master · · Score: 1

      I really can't think of any non-Mac people who cannot name Ubuntu can name OSX versions.

      In my experience, at least one of the following three things is always true:

      1. They have a version of OSX (thus they are "Mac people" -- doesn't necessarily mean they are diehards).
      2. They are a technical user who has heard of Ubuntu. If they give you a blank stare it means that one or both of you doesn't know how to pronounce Ubuntu.
      3. They cannot give a large cat name to any Apple release.

      I know people in all of those categories, and some in two of them. I'm sure these people exist but I really don't think "non-apple folks can generally identify the names of the Apple OSX versions".

    50. Re:First thing they need to do by boxwood · · Score: 1

      Most of the Apple Releases make me think of German Tanks.

    51. Re:First thing they need to do by boxwood · · Score: 1

      I have a MacBook Pro, And I think it has Leopard on it. I'd have to check to be sure though. I think the Release after Leopard was Snow Leopard, but thats only because Leopard->Snow Leopard kinda makes sense. I have no idea what the current release is or what the release before Leopard was. I think Panther was the first version of Mac OSX. Until the GP post I never even heard of "Kodiak", "Cheetah", or "Puma". And isn't Kodiak a bear and not a cat?

      Honestly no one outside the IT people give a shit about releases and such. Hey I'm and IT person that has a MacBook Pro and I don't give a shit. I haven't bothered upgrading MacOS because I only use it to watch DVDs. The way I use my computer is Windows for games, MacOS for multimedia stuff and Linux for work. I'm still on Windows XP, MacOS Leopard (I think), and Ubuntu Lucid. everything seems to work fine so why bother spending hours (maybe days given how fucked up the partitioning is on a Macbook) upgrading OS's?

    52. Re:First thing they need to do by Dracophile · · Score: 1

      "Hairy Hardon".

      --
      Athy, athier, athiest.
    53. Re:First thing they need to do by sattu94 · · Score: 1

      "Pompous Parakeet"

    54. Re:First thing they need to do by sridharo · · Score: 1

      Ok, my +1.
      Where are the mod points when you need them?

  4. Canonical doesn't sell computers by newcastlejon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From TFS. Apple started with hardware and they still sell it. Without the iPod there would be no iTunes, no App Store. Who writes these claptrap headlines?

    At least the first post here was succinct - and probably right.

    --
    If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
    1. Re:Canonical doesn't sell computers by drb226 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Strong agree.

      Canonical doesn't sell computers

      Also, Canonical doesn't sell their OS. Canonical therefore has a completely different business model than Apple.

    2. Re:Canonical doesn't sell computers by inglorion_on_the_net · · Score: 1

      Strong agree.

      Canonical doesn't sell computers

      Also, Canonical doesn't sell their OS. Canonical therefore has a completely different business model than Apple.

      It all depends on what the "Next Apple" is supposed to mean. I hear Apple is a fun place to work. Maybe Canonical is, too.

      I agree with you, though. Without making the hardware and the software and selling them together, Canonical is very much unlike Apple.

      --
      Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
  5. uhm by dropadrop · · Score: 1

    Maybe if you see Apple as a company providing a solution to a wider computing need rather then a hardware and sofware manufacturer, but I would say no.

    That said, I do welcome a complete approach, and also taking radical steps on the desktop (despite using Ubuntu on my HTPC and work computer I'm not a huge fan of Gnome or KDE). I tried installing Ubuntu 11.04 on a vmware virtual today and never even managed to get it to boot to the desktop. I guess I would not have managed to test Unity even if I reached the Desktop, so can't really comment on how well thought out the experience will be, but looking at history I don't expect anything as polished as OSX from a usability point of view.

    1. Re:uhm by couchslug · · Score: 1

      Ubuntu sacrificed polish for frequent releases. Since it's free it doesn't have to rely on quality for revenue and is under no marketplace compulsion to change that.

      Geeks who want what it offers can sort out the little shit, the hardcore can use Debian for servers without multimedia, but polish AND features require focus and MONEY.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    2. Re:uhm by jedidiah · · Score: 2

      No. Polish and features requires discipline.

      They have to be willing to let a date slip and do things right. This isn't about money, it's about having discipline with regards to how you approach your work.

      They can't take the "but we can patch it after we shove it out" approach to development.

      Although to be fair, this is by no means limited to the likes of Canonical.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  6. Canonical evil? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I hope Canonical become a major force. But I hope they never become like Apple.

  7. Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Where do you guys get these titles? lol, the answer is "No" and wow what a stretch.

  8. Apples and oranges by RogueWarrior65 · · Score: 1

    Apple was never really a software company at its heart. It was always a hardware company that chose to write its own software.

    IMHO, we should all violently protest cloud computing because eventually you will be paying a monthly fee for software and therefore will eventually pay for apps over and over and over ad nauseum until your bank account is empty.

    1. Re:Apples and oranges by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      I'd say it's just a computer company. When Apple started, the idea of selling an OS as a separate item was unusual. All the computer companies produced their own OS. Even the ones that licensed an OS never made much distinction of what it was, since it was just a component. It was mentioned in the technical documentation along with the type of CPU but it was largely seen as a design detail.

      Microsoft is in the unusual position of making the OS the brand. My satnav runs Linux, but you wouldn't know it. Blackberry's tablet runs QNX, but they don't make much mention of this because the OS is just a component. Sony write their own OS for their consoles as do Nintendo.

      There are companies that only make hardware and companies that only make software, but it's not like they have to be one or the other.

    2. Re:Apples and oranges by Locutus · · Score: 1

      I believe it's more brown than orange.

      LoB

      --
      "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
    3. Re:Apples and oranges by zlogic · · Score: 1

      You may hate cloud computing but people who can't install and configure their own software often prefer to pay a mothly fee for a cloud office suite instead of paying an IT guy to clean their Windows registry.

    4. Re:Apples and oranges by johnjaydk · · Score: 1

      Apple was never really a software company at its heart. It was always a hardware company that chose to write its own software.

      I'd say Apple is a software company that make some big and flashy dongles for their software.

      A Mac without the OS X etc is just a flashy, high-end PC. It even runs Windows.

      --
      TCAP-Abort
  9. Hardware? by tripleevenfall · · Score: 1

    Canonical may be forcing people to use PCs like they use cellphones, but people don't like this.

    They will never manufacture hardware as Apple does because it's antithetical to what they are. They will never have the control over compatibility issues that Apple does as a result.

    Linux unfortunately has no penetration into consumer computing space, but it's for some very good reasons that aren't going to be overcome by trying to turn people's desktops into iPhones vis-a-vis Unity

    1. Re:Hardware? by CastrTroy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Canonical may be forcing people to use PCs like they use cellphones, but people don't like this.

      You may not like this (I don't either), but people in general like a computer that is an appliance. This is the reason that the iPad (and other applie products) has caught on so well in the past few years. People never liked dealing with drivers, compatibility, registry editors, getting apps from reliable sources, or system configuration. They want a device that just does what they need, and they don't care if it's highly configurable, so long as it turns on and works every time they go to use it.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    2. Re:Hardware? by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2

      If Canonical DID start selling computers, it would force the last vestiges of Hardware bits to make an effort to write good drivers for Linux. The biggest problem, to this day, is drivers. The last time I had a laptop and tried to get wireless LAN working on it in Linux, it was painful. Had to install a wrapper to finally get it to work. Sorry, but that just doesn't cut it. And lets not talk about Video drivers either or you'll really get depressed.

      Look, I'm a geek. I can fiddle with settings, google problems, tweak conf files and whatnot to get shit to work. BUT I shouldn't have to. IF Canonical did start making hardware for Ubuntu, this could propel the hardware company to actually start paying attention to Linux.

      Yeah, I'm crazy.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    3. Re:Hardware? by tripleevenfall · · Score: 1

      There's a qualitative difference, though, between removing compatibility issues (like Apple does) and dumbing something down to the point where it barely seems like a PC anymore.

    4. Re:Hardware? by initdeep · · Score: 1

      The reason people are purchasing these "appliances" from Apple is actually quite simple.
      They work within their ecosystem and offer the ability to get what people want.
      Now, having said that, there are many more people rocking an iPod than there are ones rocking a complete Apple ecosystem because it's easy to use, easy to get what you want, can be used on the major OS's quite easily (other than iTunes being a crappy manager), and despite other manufacturers attempts, it really is one of the better. more easily purchased devices for mom and pop to buy for little Johnny.

      Apple is selling an experience.
      Their devices work together quite well. This also means that they don't work all that well with others, so if you've spent hundreds or thousands of dollars over the history of iTunes purchasing songs, do you really want to repurchase them as DRM free, or go the route of burning and re-ripping them so you can have them DRM free?
      No, you don't. So you keep using their system.

      That's why people purchase these products.
      That and they look shiny of course (/sarcasm)

    5. Re:Hardware? by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      Actually I wouldn't care if it is highly configurable if it were configured out of the box to work in a way I like. But since the probability of getting that is quite low, the next best choice is a system which I can reconfigure to work the way I like it.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    6. Re:Hardware? by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      ...this is one area where Canonical continues to not practice what it preaches. It likes to pretend to be like Apple but it never really executes. This is in contrast to other distributors in the past that have actually made efforts to make meaningful improvements to Linux either by contributing to these drivers or to useful hardware documentation. (Yes, this is my "Why can't Canonical be more like old Suse" rant.)

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    7. Re:Hardware? by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Yes, but people want the dumbed down version.
      They want a device with minimal to no worries, that has a simple way to run the applications they want to run. Whether its a spread sheet, a game, or watch a TV show.

      Quite frankly, I don't blame them. It's not for me, but owning a PC is becoming an expensive nightmare.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    8. Re:Hardware? by Abstrackt · · Score: 1

      ... dumbing something down to the point where it barely seems like a PC anymore.

      Like it or not, this is exactly what a large part of the market wants. To reiterate CastrTroy's point, that's exactly why the iPad is doing so well.

      --
      They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett
    9. Re:Hardware? by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      A castrated desktop doesn't really address that however.

      Once again, the champions of "usability" fixate on all of the wrong details. ...and Apple interfaces are terribly for "watching a TV show". They have been "simplified" to the point of being less useful even from an "appliance" perspective.

      Blindly following the likes of Apple is really very foolish.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    10. Re:Hardware? by Homburg · · Score: 1

      Canonical may be forcing people to use PCs like they use cellphones

      How exactly are Canonical doing this?

    11. Re:Hardware? by bfree · · Score: 1

      Linux unfortunately has no penetration into consumer computing space

      Android. Though of course it's not GNU/Linux.

      --

      Never underestimate the dark side of the Source

    12. Re:Hardware? by Risen888 · · Score: 1

      Those people are happy using their phones and tablets. They don't want a computer at all. People who write computer software should therefore not cater to them.

      --
      Hey, I finally got my first freak! Took you long enough!
    13. Re:Hardware? by Kjella · · Score: 1

      People never liked dealing with drivers, compatibility, registry editors, getting apps from reliable sources, or system configuration. They want a device that just does what they need, and they don't care if it's highly configurable, so long as it turns on and works every time they go to use it.

      There's a huge difference between configuring it to work the way I want and having to configure it in order to work at all. "My [network / sound / wireless / suspend / bluetooth] is broken" is never a good form of configurability. "I upgraded my OS and now apps x, y and z are broken" is not good configurability. If you go on YouTube and can't make the video play smooth, that's not good configurability. Many people hated "Plug & P(l/r)ay" because if it was broken, it was much harder to fix. But eventually that became the standard and you didn't have to configure IRQs and memory addresses and shit. There's still too much configurability in Linux of the not very good kind, because there's so many hacks and tweaks and workarounds the skilled get by without needing to scratch their itch by really fixing it and the rest are hopelessly lost.

      And as for the App Store, well at least in that respect it's exactly equal to the repositories Linux fans have been raving about for ages, you only get trusted software. Or well getting a malicious app into the app store is possible, but so is getting a malicious package into the repository. The app store is essentially what open source never got going with microfunding, paying a buck is nothing. But a ten thousand people paying a buck each, that's a fair bit of money. I think there should have been a lot easier way to give a package developer a buck in Linux, even in the open source world money is a powerful motivator. Not the big donations, because people won't give. Just the small droplet that'll still add up to a river.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    14. Re:Hardware? by Fri13 · · Score: 1

      And I can take almost any Linux distribution and Canonical does not offer anything what would make Ubuntu better than them. Actually, it is much better to stay away from Canonical as then user is more free to actually switch distributions or do easy upgrades and change devices and maintain somekind link to open source community.

      If you want to offer a software system for a avarage computer user, forget Ubuntu, forget whole Canonical. Sit down for few hours with the person and listen what that person wants and notice what she/he really need. And then take good Linux distribution what does not play around with configs every 6-24 months. Like Debian or Arch Linux as example. After one hour tweaking, you never need to come back for technical problems if upstream does not really do such.

    15. Re:Hardware? by westyvw · · Score: 1

      Will go against the grain here. My older laptop has no windows driver for WPA. With Linux it just works and there was nothing I had to do as a user to make it work. It saw a WPA network, asked for password and I was done.

  10. What a ridiculous comment. by Old97 · · Score: 1

    Apple is first and foremost a hardware company that uses software and services to give it a competitive advantage selling hardware. Canonical is a services company that uses open source software to advance its services business. App stores, clouds and streaming are not unique to Apple or central to its business.

    --
    Very often, people confuse simple with simplistic. The nuance is lost on most. - Clement Mok
  11. So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Is Mahatma Gandhi the next Hitler?

  12. Oh lordy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    @ubuntu.com'er here.

    Canonical has a bit of control of the community, but it has that control *indirectly*.

    Canonical hires productive Ubuntu'ers to work on Ubuntu as their job. Sure they might get some assignments, but the changes put forward for Ubuntu happen at the twice-yearly Ubuntu Developer's Summit. Hell, Canonical even flies in Ubuntu hackers who might be doing work next cycle who are not in their employ.

    The point is, it's a community. Canonical is funding it, sure, but I take zero orders when I make changes.

  13. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2, Informative

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  14. We've been bitten by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    At my local electronics society we use Ubuntu. We will not upgrade to 11.04, because of Unity and the abysmal problems we have had in the past with PulseAudio. A few members are currently looking how to configure Debian with all the bells and whistles we like and without the ones that Ubuntu wants to push upon us.

    So that is 92 computers that Ubuntu will not be run anymore in the near future.

    1. Re:We've been bitten by scharkalvin · · Score: 2

      "A few members are currently looking how to configure Debian with all the bells and whistles we like and without the ones that Ubuntu wants to push upon us."
      Linux Mint, Debian edition.

    2. Re:We've been bitten by Haedrian · · Score: 1

      If you don't like unity so much, install GNOME/KDE/Whatever on it. Its a very simple process.

      Or switch to *ubuntu. (Kubuntu,Xubuntu or whatever)

      Much easier than trying to configure Debian...

    3. Re:We've been bitten by maxwell+demon · · Score: 2

      If you don't like unity so much, install GNOME/KDE/Whatever on it. Its a very simple process.

      Or switch to *ubuntu. (Kubuntu,Xubuntu or whatever)

      Much easier than trying to configure Debian...

      So I guess we will now also get Gubuntu, for those who prefer Gnome to Unity?

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    4. Re:We've been bitten by E+IS+mC(Square) · · Score: 1

      You know it takes very few clicks to default to Gnome 2 on 11.04? Weather Unity is good or not, it's lame excuse to switch over to something else entirely when you can just set it up the way you like.

      Select "Ubuntu Classic" (or something like that) at the login screen.

    5. Re:We've been bitten by killmenow · · Score: 2

      A brief story about my history with Linux distros:

      Once upon a time, I was a slacker. And it was good. Then a shadowy figure wearing a Red Hat appeared. And I was no longer a slacker. Eventually, an African concept helped me realize I am who I am because of who we all are. But then who we all are became less and less for the people and that shadowy figure wearing a Fedora turned 14. And I became a convert once again.

      All along, I kept in mind how important freedom is. So I frequented a strange land called Debia. Because they truly are who they are because we all are who we all are. It's not just their marketing.

    6. Re:We've been bitten by maxwell+demon · · Score: 2

      Weather Unity

      Is that the version for meteorologists? :-)

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    7. Re:We've been bitten by E+IS+mC(Square) · · Score: 1

      Probably it's effect of having great weather on Friday here in NYC. :-) Need to get out of office early today.

    8. Re:We've been bitten by poptones · · Score: 1

      That's crazy. Ubuntu isn't perfect but nothing is. I like many of the added geegaws that you get with ubuntu that don't come with other distros, and it's trvivially easy to switch pulseaudio for alsa and to switch to "classic gnome mode" if that's what you ant (I actually use a hybrid myself, I find it works great in my living room). I don't even like compiz because since I've removed it completely I almost NEVER have desktop crashes and even getting rid of that is pretty easy. Mono? Also gone.

      http://mypicturepalace.com/poptones/Screenshot.png2.jpg

      Everyone has favorite stuff they install and configurations they prefer. Given this, it's insane to say "I'm not using that open source distro X" simply because they offer, by default, packages you don't like. I also have my own thumbnailer I prefer to use. Should I throw a fit because ubuntu uses that SLOW-ASS video thumbnailer? Of course not - It's just too damn easy to fix.

         

    9. Re:We've been bitten by Locutus · · Score: 1

      do you know there are other versions of pre-packaged Ubuntu which don't default to the Unity desktop? Kubuntu, Xubuntu and there is even LinuxMint which is based on Ubuntu but customized by the Mint community and they too have different flavors/configurations. Or you can spin your own from Debian if that is what you really want but there are other options instead of the default Ubuntu with Unity.

      LoB

      --
      "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
    10. Re:We've been bitten by MrHanky · · Score: 1

      Just what exactly is so hard about configuring Debian? It detects pretty much all hardware, and everything Just Works(tm), including whichever desktop environment you chose to install.

      Oh, right. They removed firmware from the kernel package so you may need to install those packages separately. Just do that, then. Some firmware packages may be non-free, so you might want to enable that as well.

    11. Re:We've been bitten by DriedClexler · · Score: 1

      What ... the ... fuck?

      --
      Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
    12. Re:We've been bitten by Short+Circuit · · Score: 3, Insightful

      when you can just set it up the way you like.

      Except that anything that's not part of the primary feature set or user interaction path on Ubuntu tends to see bitrot, more so than in distros that don't try to tie everything together.

      The reason is obvious; Ubuntu devs try very hard to create a unified and convenient experience (and they do, for a large class of users), and that work leads to the creation of code and features that sees a large amount of testing and use for the general case. They don't see a lot of testing for people who don't use the general case. For example, I was forced to switch away from 'wmii' when I discovered that key Ubuntu features didn't function well (or at all) if one didn't have a FreeDesktop.org tray for interacting with some Ubuntu core control mechanisms, and there were no discoverable command-line-driven accessors to those control mechanisms. This general class of problems has hit me every time Ubuntu saw a new six-month-release cycle.

      The first response is usually "try an LTS release." LTS releases are nice for fire-and-don't-quite-forget systems and servers, where one can run apt-get update && apt-get-upgrade, but not need to install new packages often, if ever. On a desktop or workstation, or anything where any kind of development needs to be done, even Ubuntu's 3yr release cycle (which kicked Debian's butt when first adhered to) is slow. Proprietary vendors tend to release packages for the latest 6mo release, and the latest LTS if you're lucky.

      The second response is usually "check the forums." The forums are (and always have been) a mess whenever one wanted to try something not-really-bleeding edge; often enough one would come across a thread four years out of date after seeing more recent threads referring queries to the "established" thread. In that time, APIs change, and even entire toolchains get deprecated and replaced.

      The third response is usually "file bug reports!" or "contribute some changes!" ... I've got friends who are Ubuntu devs or dedicated advocates, and I sometimes hear this from them, too. I don't have the time. Really, I don't. I managed to file three bugs this year. Two against Ekiga, and one against LibreOffice. That's a record for me. I didn't have time to follow up on questions around the Ekiga bugs, and I was fortunate someone else was able to reproduce the LibreOffice bug.

      I'm not saying Ubuntu is inherently horrible; at times, it's the best tool for the job. However, I don't think the claim that getting back to tried-and-true is "only a few clicks away" exhibits an awareness of how rapidly non-default configurations on Ubuntu undergo bitrot.

      I use Ubuntu only when I need something up and running fast. I use Debian or Gentoo when I need it up and running right. (Often Ubuntu server can stand in for Debian in server circumstances. It depends on whose LTS release has the package/version pairs I need)

    13. Re:We've been bitten by Short+Circuit · · Score: 1

      You've got me lusting after setting up a 92-machine computer lab as a Gentoo distcc setup.

      Gentoo is awful in that it takes a long time to get things just right, but it's awesome that things can be made far more 'just right' than any other distro I've ever used.

      There's an analogy to GURPS in there somewhere...

    14. Re:We've been bitten by Scragglykat · · Score: 1

      But then they won't have to gripe so much... and we know Linux people love to gripe! Personally, 11.04 works fine for me. Haven't seen much of an issue with it thus far. Besides, it's not technically a full "stability" release. It's supposed to be pushing the bleeding edge of what's available. How else are they going to play with the big boys?

    15. Re:We've been bitten by MikeDaSpike · · Score: 1

      I cried.

    16. Re:We've been bitten by rikasa · · Score: 1

      Linux mint users are seriously getting up my nasal cavity - they're as bad as mac fanatics.

    17. Re:We've been bitten by FauxPasIII · · Score: 1

      For me the big advantage of Ubuntu over plain Debian (let's face it, Ubuntu is just another branch of Debian) is that it provides exactly the release schedule style that matches my expectations. With Debian, you can basically choose from among the following:

      1) Exquisitely release-engineered branch; all packages 100.00% guaranteed to work together, upgrade flawlessly and not have weird dependency cycles that require "apt surgery" to get working. Package versions often months or years old. (stable)
      2) Zero day, bleeding edge versions of all packages. Very likely to have large swaths of the dependency graph borked up at any given time. You'll learn the difference between "upgrade" and "dist-upgrade" the first time that a package obsoletes the current version of glib or libstdc++ or something before the new version is uploaded. (sid)
      3) Somewhere in between (1) and (2). A bit old, mostly but not completely stable dependency graph (testing).

      With Ubuntu, you get a fourth option: Packages on a predictable age range from 0-6 months depending on how close you are to April or October, with almost as well tested a dependency graph as Debian stable. Almost.

      For me, that's the option that matches best with my needs. Ubuntu is, for me, the best way to use Debian. =)

      --
      25% Funny, 25% Insightful, 25% Informative, 25% Troll
    18. Re:We've been bitten by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 1

      So you're surprised that a window manager that has (relatively) VERY few users does not get a lot of attention? WTF? Of course they focused more on Gnome and KDE. Issues with those desktops affect far, far more people.

      I don't doubt that Gnome will now receive less attention akin to Kubuntu, and will need to build a solid community like Kubuntu currently has. But if you don't like Unity, or don't trust Gnome to be supported, try Kubuntu. I'm not sure why it would be affected that much since it always has operated on its own parallel course, and now has its stride. I prefer Kubuntu to Ubuntu any day. The Gnome version was already getting 'dumbed down' significantly before this. I think Kubuntu strikes a better balance.

      What I wonder is about is if and when they get a larger market share of even 3% or 4% of total OS on laptops, desktops, tablets, etc., the new user base will totally eclipse the current Linux user base. If that happens, what people on Slashdot and other tech related sites think will be moot. The masses that make the company Canonical money will win over the original Ubuntu/Debian users. At that point, will even Kubuntu be supported and/or viable.

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
    19. Re:We've been bitten by DanielSmedegaardBuus · · Score: 1

      Well, if the users are a reason not to use it, then you have a problem. That being said, I've only had problems with my latest Mint endeavor, and I'm not going there again!

    20. Re:We've been bitten by greg1104 · · Score: 1

      Exactly--all you have to do in order to make Debian work with common hardware is install normally, edit /etc/apt/sources.list to enable the non-free and contrib repos, run apt-get update to make it recognize that change, then find the names of the additional packages you need so that you can install them! Everything Just Works!

      Sheesh. I switched three systems from running Ubuntu to Debian recently. That's what I did on each of them, and the process was annoying but feasible. But it would be completely unreasonable to expect any normal desktop user to go through, and this all happens automatically on Ubuntu. At worst you run the little "Add a hardware driver" wizard and click to turn things on.

    21. Re:We've been bitten by rikasa · · Score: 1

      You can't have ever have worked in sales then - fanaticism can put anyone off anything

    22. Re:We've been bitten by Gerzel · · Score: 1

      Gentoo will compile on GURPS and vice versa,.

    23. Re:We've been bitten by darthdavid · · Score: 1

      Don't forget Uubuntu for those who actually like unity...

    24. Re:We've been bitten by toadlife · · Score: 1

      Just what exactly is so hard about configuring Debian? It detects pretty much all hardware, and everything Just Works(tm), including whichever desktop environment you chose to install.

      "Pretty much", being the key word there.

      I have an engineering lab that runs linux. I was happily running Debian on it for a couple of years and everything was just fine, until we replaced the computers. The computers had an Intel board with everything integrated into the board the latest Intel Chipset . The latest Debian stable didn't detect the NIC, sound card or video card. I compiled and installed the NIC driver, but quickly found out that in order to get everything else working I would need to install the latest beta/test/"unstable" version.

      So I installed Ubuntu and was done with it.

      I have no problem with Debian and would have preferred to continue using it, but I that lab was a tiny portion of my responsibilities and I didn't have time to screw around.

      --
      I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
    25. Re:We've been bitten by MrHanky · · Score: 1

      As a long time Debian user, I don't see Ubuntu as the same at all. It pushes far too much crap on people, too many customisations that simply Don't Work(tm). With Debian, you usually have a high degree of choice, and the removal of which is exactly Ubuntu's recipe for success: you get a full package of things Canonical assume you need.

      In reality, there's also very little breakage in Debian Sid. I think I used the same install for five years or so at one point -- pointless, really, considering how quickly you can set these things up, and how much cruft you build up over the years.

    26. Re:We've been bitten by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      What's wrong with Unity? And why can't you just apt-get install gnome?

    27. Re:We've been bitten by Short+Circuit · · Score: 1

      No, in that specific case, I was irritated at the lack of command-line workarounds.

    28. Re:We've been bitten by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      I highly doubt that Gnome is going to suffer from bitrot.

    29. Re:We've been bitten by Miseph · · Score: 1

      "There's an analogy to GURPS in there somewhere..."

      Only after you wade through thousands of pages of expansions do you come to see the truth: you're better off just using the core book and extrapolating, because no sane GM would EVER allow somebody to do something just because it was in a book and at the end of the day, any system which allows a Fallout-esque future soldier wearing an armored exoskeleton and wielding a nuclear flamethrower to be merely competitive with a Spartan Hoplite cannot be considered "universal" anyway.

      Maybe the lesson is that Gentoo can be configured to be six shades of awesome... but given what most people who want their computer to be so awesome want to do, and given that Linux is often a poor choice for doing those things, very few will find the experience so rewarding as frustrating.

      Of course, I recently started Storytelling for a non-MET Vampire: the Masquerade-based LARP for which my team has spent several hours re-tooling the system and typically spends a large portion of each post-game meeting making tweaks... so I guess I'm not really one to deride that sort of masochism.

      --
      Try not to take me more seriously than I take myself.
    30. Re:We've been bitten by darthdavid · · Score: 1

      LMFTFY:

      Canonical money will win over the original Ubuntu users.

      Other distros won't really be affected as such, because they'll still have the same user base they do now, which is clearly sufficient to see continued interest, use and development. If Canonical makes it big using their own take on a Linux desktop, so what? It's not like they're going to magically make everyone fly away from whatever they use now and as long as there's at least one user who knows how to code and wants to keep using it an open source project can never really 'die'...

    31. Re:We've been bitten by Short+Circuit · · Score: 1

      Not GNOME, but GNOME's integration with Ubuntu's system controls. GNOME itself won't see bitrot because, as a unit, GNOME sees a lot of testing. However, the glue code between GNOME and Ubuntu will suffer, as while GNOME will see a lot of users, and Ubuntu will see a lot of users, the combinanation of GNOME+Ubuntu will see fewer users.

    32. Re:We've been bitten by Short+Circuit · · Score: 1

      Heh. I suspect a number of DR and armor rules were being misapplied by whoever set up a Spartan-vs-Fallout comparison.

      Your argument such degrees of configurability not being for everyone is spot-on, of course. However, I've not found any other distro that handles preserving system configuration alterations as well as Gentoo does. :)

    33. Re:We've been bitten by Haedrian · · Score: 1

      Never said it was hard. Just comparing it to running a 2 line command to install KDE makes it harder by comparison.

    34. Re:We've been bitten by MrHanky · · Score: 1

      A newer version of Ubuntu will of course support newer hardware than older versions of most other distros. It's not really easier to configure per se.

    35. Re:We've been bitten by lennier1 · · Score: 1

      Gnome 3 will be pretty much the same clusterfuck. Good thing abandoning it in favor of Xfce only requires clicking a single link.

    36. Re:We've been bitten by toadlife · · Score: 1

      I was not comparing a new version of Ubuntu vs a old version of Debian.

      --
      I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
    37. Re:We've been bitten by HermMunster · · Score: 1

      I'm a windows / dos user from way way back. I'm a Linux user for my main desktop. Unity is nothing more than an attempt to make DOS-like menuing system for graphical programs. And, IMHO, it's pathetic. Pundits, IMHO, jumped on the band wagon because of the controversy as well as the fanaticism they have for Linux and Canonical. Gnome 3 is little better.

      --
      You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
    38. Re:We've been bitten by bemymonkey · · Score: 1

      So according to your description, Ubuntu really is the Apple version of Debian... no more choice, but that makes it easy to use.

      As someone who uses Ubuntu only on the odd occasion (almost exclusively the terminal and text editor, for compiling Android stuff), I've got to say that the approach actually isn't bad.

      If I were to use Ubuntu as my main OS, however, I'm sure I'd feel annoyed quite quickly.

    39. Re:We've been bitten by Risen888 · · Score: 1

      Much easier than trying to configure Debian...

      Huh?

      --
      Hey, I finally got my first freak! Took you long enough!
    40. Re:We've been bitten by Risen888 · · Score: 1

      It's by no means a "lame excuse." Canonical is obviously pushing Unity hard. It stands to reason that comparatively more development resources will go there, and Gnome will get less. If you want to use Gnome, it makes perfect sense to go to a distro that focuses on Gnome.

      (Disclaimer: I don't use Gnome, Unity, or Ubuntu. I have no dog in this fight.)

      --
      Hey, I finally got my first freak! Took you long enough!
    41. Re:We've been bitten by grumbel · · Score: 1

      So you're surprised that a window manager that has (relatively) VERY few users does not get a lot of attention? WTF?

      The problem isn't that the window manager doesn't get attention, but that large parts of the Ubuntu desktop get turned into a monolithic blob instead of a lightweight reusable components. Thus the only way to do some things is by using the whole Ubuntu blob at once, if you want to replace a single component the whole house of cards collapses.

      Take Unity, if you don't like parts of it, your only option is to discard it pretty much completely. Having it nicely work together with older Gnome parts or using only parts of its features doesn't seem to be part of the plan. Its an all or nothing deal.

    42. Re:We've been bitten by Risen888 · · Score: 2

      The second response is usually "check the forums."

      Yep, that old saw. I'm not trying to talk trash about the Ubuntu forums, but they're obviously geared toward n00bs. I don't say that in any deprecating sense, that's a good thing, that's their user base, that's their market, and that's fine. But getting any assistance on any sort of remotely advanced topic is pretty much impossible. It's just not what they do.

      --
      Hey, I finally got my first freak! Took you long enough!
    43. Re:We've been bitten by Risen888 · · Score: 1

      Given this, it's insane to say "I'm not using that open source distro X" simply because they offer, by default, packages you don't like.

      No it's not. If a distribution is going in a direction you don't like, and a ton of other distributions aren't going in that direction, you're right to look at other options. From your example, it sounds like you've gone to great lengths to turn Ubuntu into Debian. Why not use Debian?

      --
      Hey, I finally got my first freak! Took you long enough!
    44. Re:We've been bitten by MrHanky · · Score: 1

      No, I just refuted the claim that Ubuntu is much easier to use than Debian. I also don't think the lack of choice makes Apple any easier to use -- on the contrary, trying to use stuff that Apple hasn't already provided for is just as difficult as under any Linux. And just try finding help when you have serious problems with a Mac -- no problem is new, but all problems are met with the same fucking "try repair permissions", which never fucking works, and hardly anything seems to have a proper solution. Ubuntu's messageboards are an oasis of information in comparison, but Ubuntu itself is far more bug-ridden (mainly due to unfinished crap like Unity now and PulseAudio back then).

      I really don't see the two as similar at all. Apple's main piece of software these days is iTunes, which ties all media together in one program, enticing people to buy more stuff while locking it softly to that platform in order to sell more hardware that further ties people to iTunes. The infamous Apple cultism is designed into the products. Ubuntu doesn't have that. Then again, Apple also delivers far more polished products.

    45. Re:We've been bitten by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 1

      Point taken.

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
    46. Re:We've been bitten by poptones · · Score: 1

      Because it's not fucking debian and it's not great lengths. It's a matter of running a script I keep updated that does things like

      apt-get install build-essential privoxy spamassassin
      apt-get remove mono-runtime

      and so forth. It's not fuckign hard, and as I said I LIKE some of the ubuntu features like maximus and global-menu. I don't give a shit that they no longer include gimp because it takes like 30 seconds to install it and it's still updated with the rest of the packages.

      Debian, otoh, means learning a whole new "base install." I have no idea what's isntalled and some of the ubuntu-ish features won't be included and I now I gotta go looking for them. Sounds like more work to me than what I got. Features are generally easier to remove than to add.
       

    47. Re:We've been bitten by Short+Circuit · · Score: 1

      Not GNOME, but the bindings and glue that integrate GNOME with Ubuntu. GNOME will see plenty of users and involvement by the nature of it being a widespread project included with many distros. That's not at issue. What's at issue is the glue code that Ubuntu devs write and maintain that integrate GNOME with the Ubuntu in general and specific fashions.

    48. Re:We've been bitten by nobaloney · · Score: 1

      Whatever you do, don't try Kubuntu. I'm running 10.04 (LTS), and after an entire year of bug-fixes and security fixes, I still need to shut down akonadi every time I start the system before Kontact almost works. But then I have to restart Kontact every hour or so if I want the Contacts to work. And when finding emails I can't get the find results sorted into date order no matter what I try. Nor does locate fom the command line work, nor the automatic search facility in Dolphin.. Searching within thousands of files is impossible, though touted as a feature, The find command from the command line works. I'm looking into mint. So far, the Gnome version of ubuntu works well in live CD tests, even with Kontact. Thinking seriously about switching.

    49. Re:We've been bitten by Risen888 · · Score: 1

      Don't cuss me out. I wasn't rude to you.

      --
      Hey, I finally got my first freak! Took you long enough!
    50. Re:We've been bitten by Short+Circuit · · Score: 1

      This the third time I'll have attempted to post a reply to this. (I don't know where the other two went)

      It's not GNOME that will suffer bitrot. GNOME has many users across many distributions. What will suffer bitrot is the glue code that integrates GNOME with Ubuntu core components and behaviors.

    51. Re:We've been bitten by torstenvl · · Score: 1

      What is this, a flashback to 2004? iTunes music is DRM-free dude. There's very little about iTunes that locks you into a platform, and certainly not in order to sell more hardware. The biggest "lock-in" even remotely related to iTunes is the 2-year contract with AT&T or Verizon you have to sign if you get an iPhone.

  15. Re:Cash Flow... by tripleevenfall · · Score: 1

    From advertising.

    Apple makes money from selling stuff.

  16. Re:Cash Flow... by Desler · · Score: 2

    Wow, "millions". Apple just makes a measly $65 billion in revenue and $14 billion in profit a year. I'm sure they are quaking in their boots over the nebelous "millions" that Canonical makes.

  17. Re:Cash Flow... by guybrush3pwood · · Score: 1

    Google makes money from advertising. Are they all smucks over there at Google?

    --
    Perhaps I'm trolling, perhaps I'm not.
  18. why not by Jeek+Elemental · · Score: 1

    design is arguably a strength of ubuntu, I think they are getting pretty damn good at it too.
    It runs on everything, which is a unique strength compared to others. Eventually, instead of having a different os on every gadget, ubuntu on all.
    Its easy enough to use for non-techies (my whole family uses it) while having full linux power under the hood.
    They have tons of karma, I would like them to succeed, which hopefully is a common sentiment and will pay off.

  19. Re:Cash Flow... by Desler · · Score: 1

    When the ad industry collapses, yes, they will be. Or do you somehow think that the web ad bubble is never going to burst?

  20. Yup, marketing by DesScorp · · Score: 2

    ...is start picking better names for their releases.

    I've long said one of the things that hold back open source products from wider acceptance is that the OS/free software communities absolutely suck at marketing. Marketing isn't everything... the product has to be good... but plenty of good products have failed because the marketing effort behind them wasn't up to par. Mindshare is very often won on the ad page. Like it or not, that's reality. This is why companies spend untold millions on marketing. It's important.

    --
    Life is hard, and the world is cruel
    1. Re:Yup, marketing by initdeep · · Score: 1, Funny

      leave teh GIMP alone!!!!!

    2. Re:Yup, marketing by bennomatic · · Score: 2

      Seriously! Who thought "Ogg Vorbis" was a good name for anything? Sounds like a denture cream!

      --
      The CB App. What's your 20?
    3. Re:Yup, marketing by Risen888 · · Score: 1

      That's right! That's why software sold by a company named after a fruit, a mud hut, or a nonsense word sells so well!

      --
      Hey, I finally got my first freak! Took you long enough!
    4. Re:Yup, marketing by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Are you countertrolling? Because I. Will. Bite. That really is an embarrassing name. I think people should have a sense of humor too, but for the love of all that is open, consider the impact naming has on adoption.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  21. Re:It's like... by Haedrian · · Score: 1

    Narwhals presumably.

  22. Good by MonsterTrimble · · Score: 3, Funny

    If Ubuntu takes off, will it make Canonical the next Apple?

    We can only hope. Unity is GPL, as is the vast majority of the Linux ecosphere. If Ubuntu becomes as big as (i)OSX and Win7 everybody in the linux community will gain a tremendous amount. Drivers, support, money - it will all get exponentially better for us.

    --
    I call it 'The Aristocrats'
    1. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That will not happen at least in the next 10 years, and likely never. I have my wife using the last Long Term Support version of Ubuntu (Lucid) and after a few months of working fine it now locks up and freezes--requiring a power-off reboot--several times a day. I have reinstalled it fresh and it occasionally still does it. It's 2011, this is just completely unacceptable.

      And then when you go to Ubuntu Forums to try to figure out how to fix it, you find 163 pages of suggested incantations to put into the terminal to "see if maybe that will work". Forget it. Windows 7 just works.

    2. Re:Good by Kjella · · Score: 1

      We can only hope. Unity is GPL, as is the vast majority of the Linux ecosphere. If Ubuntu becomes as big as (i)OSX and Win7 everybody in the linux community will gain a tremendous amount. Drivers, support, money - it will all get exponentially better for us.

      Microsoft has the luxury of owning 90% of the market. OS X has the luxury of some very high margin niches, limited selection of hardware and the halo effect of their iDevices. I don't know how much one desktop adds to Canonical's bottom line, but it can't be much. Obviously the software itself is free, but I mean in total including all opportunities to make stores, cloud services, support services and whatnot. At least in terms of money I think Canonical would need the market share of Microsoft to go toe to toe with Apple.

      Linux the kernel is not going anywhere, with Android it's now conquering the mobile market at record pace - regardless of the duel with iPhone non-Linux dumbphones are being replaced with Linux smartphones. Red Hat is doing very well on servers and on supercomputers there's almost no contest. But Linux the desktop? I don't think Canonical got what it takes. Linux and Windows almost touched with Gnome 2/KDE 3 and Vista SP0. Since then I have the feeling both OS X and Windows have leaped several miles while Linux is running in circles.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    3. Re:Good by Stormwatch · · Score: 1

      after a few months of working fine it now locks up and freezes--requiring a power-off reboot--several times a day. I have reinstalled it fresh and it occasionally still does it.

      Could it be a hardware problem?

    4. Re:Good by DeVilla · · Score: 1

      If Ubuntu takes off, will it make Canonical the next Apple?

      We can only hope. Unity is GPL, as is the vast majority of the Linux ecosphere. ....

      At least it's GPL unless something happens to cause Canonical to exercise it's rights under the contributor's agreements to relicense all future releases of Unity under some other less-then-free license. They would be within their rights to switch to any license they wish for future releases while retaining all of the contributed code.

  23. Rather unlikely! by VincenzoRomano · · Score: 1
    Apple is whatever it is because of its long story in taking unorthodox choices and consequent revolutions.
    Which means a lot of work, a lot of betting and a bunch of wins.
    What I've seen so far is changing a default color schema, a "new" font and a new naming schema.
    Not even the "new" desktop is really new as

    Unity is a shell interface for the GNOME desktop environment

    (Very first line in Wikipedia)
    Ubuntu, like Unity, is a shell around something else (Debian) with very limited value added.
    Just "going to the clouds" (tm) doesn't make a winning company (alo because everyone else is going there).
    No, I don't think Canonical will be the next Apple (or even Microsoft). It's more likely it will be the next Mandrakesoft.

    --
    Maybe Computers will never be as intelligent as Humans.
    For sure they won't ever become so stupid. [VR-1988]
    1. Re:Rather unlikely! by geekoid · · Score: 2

      Not a bunch of wins, just some wins. Apple has a long line of cast of products, market failure, and money spent on things that never made it to light. All of which is normal process for getting good products and RnD technologies.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  24. So, UX then by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I was a Linux desktop user for 10 years and just switched to Mac - not because of some nebulous "experience"[...]but I was sick of waiting for my laptop to reboot all the time, and the MacBook is the first computer I've ever used where power management actually, really works. For me it's all about nuts and bolts.

    So, basically, you switched for the user experience.

    Why do Slashdotters think that "user experience" means "useless flashy graphics?" That's bullshit. "User experience" means "the machine does not frustrate the user." Nuts and bolts are an essential part of user experience, long before we get to the graphics/design stage. No amount of flashy graphics can cover up things that don't work.

    1. Re:So, UX then by Desler · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But it can't be due to that! It has to be because he's a part of the Apple cult or he was taken in by the Job's Reality Distortion Field or he's some ignorant hipster! Apple can't possibly provide a better quality product that just doesn't fit into the Apple hater's universe of possibilities!

    2. Re:So, UX then by jedidiah · · Score: 2

      ...after 10 years of using Linux he switches to Apple because it "just works"?

      Stuff "just worked" on Mandrake and that came along less than 10 years after the beginning of Linux.

      MacOS is less transparent, tends to castrate the usefulness of interfaces, tends to make dealing with legacy and alien data harder and tends to give you these all encompassing uber-apps that are like the exact opposite of the Unix approach to building tools.

      Macs are very much like Windows machines in that you probably want to avoid the OS vendor apps as much as you can.

      Strangely enough, Ubuntu is kind of the same way. You probably want to avoid the apps they champion. Unity is a great example of this.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    3. Re:So, UX then by grumbel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Nuts and bolts are an essential part of user experience, long before we get to the graphics/design stage

      Very true and that is exactly why Unity is bullshit. It improves little to nothing, yet introduces a whole swoop of new bugs in incompatibles for no other reason then looking a little more hip and more like OSX. I would much prefer it when they would focus on making what they already have work proper.

      The simple truth is that the whole "desktop experience" hasn't really changed a whole lot in the last 20 years, you click icons to start stuff, you push icons around to move files, etc. Its how Windows does it, its how MacOSX does it, its how the Amiga did it an pretty much everybody else. Small improvements here and there are nice and good, but what matters most is simply that what you have works properly and works for the tasks at hand, not just sometimes, but always and Ubuntu simply doesn't. On numerous upgrades the OpenGL driver killed itself, subpixel rendering is currently broken for me, network configuration also leaves a lot to be desired and multi monitor support while tolerable, but anything but great.

      The forced Unity UI was easily the worst upgrade experience I had in Linux for quite some years, probably even worse then the switch from Gnome1 to Gnome2. Only thing that makes it somewhat tolerable is that so far it can be completely switched off, but it still seems to be an extremely stupid choice to force the UI on users via a dist-upgrade.

    4. Re:So, UX then by Desler · · Score: 1

      Stuff "just worked" on Mandrake and that came along less than 10 years after the beginning of Linux.

      Sure as long as you whitewash over the fact that lots of hardware wasn't supported or the ones that were didn't have support for many of the advanced features of the hardware.

      MacOS is less transparent,

      In what way?

      tends to castrate the usefulness of interfaces,

      Please provide examples.

      tends to make dealing with legacy and alien data harder

      In what way?

      and tends to give you these all encompassing uber-apps that are like the exact opposite of the Unix approach to building tools.

      Yes, they are providing what the users actually want. Most users don't want to have to string together a bunch of tiny apps by piping around ASCII strings just to get things done. Hence why Mac OS X is far more popular as a desktop Unix than any of the alternatives.

    5. Re:So, UX then by timeOday · · Score: 1
      I like the Linux userspace. The first thing I did to my new Mac put on fink (emacs, gimp, octave...) and a linux install under VMWare Fusion (for some things I haven't figured out under OSX, like mounting CIFS through an SSH tunnel).

      But I have tired of dealing with hardware issues on Linux. If you never have any, great, I am happy for you. I still hope Linux gets such widespread adoption that the issue goes away. But if anything, I sense a plateau, and this move by Ubuntu is the first case in point. I hate to see them wasting time on "putting music at the forefront of the Ubuntu experience" when there are far more basic issues driving me away. Of course, I've never paid them a dime, so they owe me nothing.

    6. Re:So, UX then by Relayman · · Score: 1

      Actually, in many ways my Mac is NOT flashy. It doesn't make a fuss about routine events (like plugging in an Ethernet cable) like Windows does. It doesn't have an LED that blinks every time the disk is accessed (I just don't care about hard drive usage). I agree that a good user experience is not just about flashy graphics.

      --
      If I used a sig over again, would anyone notice?
    7. Re:So, UX then by spheric_harlot · · Score: 1

      awesome case of post/sig disagreement

      ...after 10 years of using Linux he switches to Apple because it "just works"?

      Stuff "just worked" on Mandrake and that came along less than 10 years after the beginning of Linux.

      MacOS is less transparent, tends to castrate the usefulness of interfaces, tends to make dealing with legacy and alien data harder and tends to give you these all encompassing uber-apps that are like the exact opposite of the Unix approach to building tools.

      Macs are very much like Windows machines in that you probably want to avoid the OS vendor apps as much as you can.

      Strangely enough, Ubuntu is kind of the same way. You probably want to avoid the apps they champion. Unity is a great example of this.

      and then your sig:

      Specs? That's too geeky. Just make it go.

    8. Re:So, UX then by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      I'm gonna say your entire post was full of shit.

    9. Re:So, UX then by Kamiza+Ikioi · · Score: 1

      You're right. The GP has this idea that OSX isn't all about "user experience". Every last Apple product is user experience first, all else second. If they can't do it "right", they don't do it.

      I honestly don't like Apple. But not because they don't try. I'm nowhere near the middle of the Apple user experience bell curve. But jeez, for someone to go Apple, then blast the "experience" metric is mind blowing. Good response, parent.

      --
      I8-D
    10. Re:So, UX then by dswensen · · Score: 1
      Why do Slashdotters think that "user experience" means "useless flashy graphics?"

      The command line should be good enough for anybody! Your grandma should either learn vi or she doesn't DESERVE a computer!

    11. Re:So, UX then by Robert+Zenz · · Score: 1

      Yes, they are providing what the users actually want.

      *cough* Not that I want to disagree with you, but there's a big difference between what the user wants, and what's the right thing and what's good for the user. Reminder: Most car users would also like to see all speed limits removed. Also, we really need to distinguish between "user", "user" and "user"...I like my stringed together pipes...others don't.

    12. Re:So, UX then by thoromyr · · Score: 1

      I've been using some form of linux for the last 13 years, starting with redhat, then suse and now ubuntu. And I am increasingly tempted to switch to OSX. The comment about power management that works is spot on. My macbook pro is a very sweet machine -- and I'm not talking about the speed of the dvd burner, or the processor, or how much ram it has, or any other tech spec. I'm talking about how it just bloody works and works well, in an aesthetically pleasing manner. And there are some other draws, such as commercial software that is only Windows and OS X. (And, no, most software doesn't run well enough under wine to be more than "usable" -- I use computers to get work done, not to fiddle with.) Unfortunately, virtual machines don't present a seamless experience. They get kinda close on OS X where VMWare or Parallels lets you have a single desktop, launch apps from the dock, etc. -- but not on linux.

      Honestly, I don't think I'll give up my linux desktop. OSX Spaces is *not* a replacement for what KDE provides, and there are a variety of other issues. But it *is* tempting, particularly when linux screws things up (currently, that would include esata not working for no apparent reason). Or when the (on by default) special graphical effects prevent proper operation (such as not being able to watch movies full screen after the first launch that boot).

      Debian derived distros get a lot of things right (I absolutely love apt-get and the integration where typing a missing command results in a message that has *the exact command* to execute to install it), but they aren't perfect.

      As to avoiding Apple's OS X applications -- as it happens in general I prefer them. For example, Safari works better for me on OS X than FireFox (or its derivatives). I use applications for their merits -- just because Apple writes an application doesn't make it better or worse than a different application. By your logic I shouldn't use KMail or K3B because I prefer and use the KDE desktop manager. I think that fetish is of your own invention.

    13. Re:So, UX then by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      For me "user experience" also means "having a choice".
      So I'm not using Apple products.

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    14. Re:So, UX then by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      Exactly, he's just an uninformed hipster with more money then sense and only wants people to think he's cool by flashing Apple bling. Probably wears tweed, has a handle bar mustache and a penny farthing bicycle too.

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
  25. Re:I don't think so. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    http://www.humblebundle.com/

    Scroll down, the average linux user paid almost twice as much as the average mac user, and more then 3 times as much as the average windows user.

  26. Can Canonical get the attention of other big guys? by alispguru · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Apple went to the major printer manufacturers and said "You should support Rendesvous/Bonjour". And they did it.

    Apple went to the music labels and said "You should sell your stuff through iTunes - it's safe with our DRM". They later said "You guys should drop this DRM jazz". Both times they were heard, and Apple got the rights it needed.

    Until Canonical can do something similar, they're not an Apple replacement candidate.

    --

    To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
  27. From an admin's perspective by Torodung · · Score: 2

    No, because I actually care about what happens to people using Canonical's products. ;^)

    --
    Toro

    Glad he doesn't have an iPhone

  28. Re:Cash Flow... by porkchop_d_clown · · Score: 1

    Not so much.

    In a Guardian interview in May 2008, Mark Shuttleworth said that the Canonical business model was service provision and explained that Canonical was not yet close to profitability.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonical_Ltd.#Business_plans

  29. No by geekoid · · Score: 2

    Don't be stupid.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  30. Re:Cash Flow... by porkchop_d_clown · · Score: 1

    They might be "making millions" but they're certainly not turning a profit.

  31. Yet another pointless speculation article... by supersloshy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    1) Unity is built on top of GNOME. They didn't develop even half of that.

    1.5) Unity, IMHO, is much less usable than GNOME 3's default desktop and quite a few people I've seen online agree with me. This is not absolute though and YMMV.

    2) Every other distribution (almost) has an "app store"; it's called a freaking package manager and they've been around for a long, long time. Simply having a simple-to-use UI for one doesn't exactly qualify it as an "app store".

    3) The music service is just a re-branded 7Digital (which is a great place to buy music btw; they even sell some things in FLAC).

    4) The "personal cloud" is just a Dropbox competitor (with syncing for some apps, which is a nice touch).

    I have a feeling that these types of articles are only made for advertisement views and nothing more, as I've rarely seen an article like this that actually makes sense. Plus, Ubuntu is overhyped. I used it from 7.10 to 10.04, and after I tried switching to something else I never looked back. The exact same desktop I got in Ubuntu was actually less buggy in Arch Linux, which doesn't patch things nearly as much as Ubuntu does. Honestly, if you disregard the package manager, there's very, very, very little difference between Ubuntu and any of the other popular distributions like Fedora/OpenSUSE (if you're a desktop user that is). The only reason it's still popular, as far as I can figure out, is because it's hyped so much as being "the easiest" and "the most feature-filled" and whatnot, when every other distribution has caught up with and, dare I say, surpassed Ubuntu in usability.

    --
    "Our country is not nearly so overrun with the bigoted as it is overrun with the broadminded." -Archbishop Fulton Sheen
    1. Re:Yet another pointless speculation article... by realmolo · · Score: 1

      "The only reason it's still popular, as far as I can figure out, is because it's hyped so much as being "the easiest" and "the most feature-filled" and whatnot, when every other distribution has caught up with and, dare I say, surpassed Ubuntu in usability."

      Ubuntu is still the most usable, simply because it's the most well-supported. Yes, I realize that anything that works on Ubuntu will generally work on any Debian-based distro, but the fact is that Ubuntu is kind of the 'standard' for desktop Linux these days. And Redhat/CentOS is the standard for servers.

      The *vast* majority of how-tos/FAQs/setup guides you will find for Linux and Linux software is written with Redhat or Ubuntu in mind. So why use any other distro? They're all Linux, after all. Might as well use one that is heavily documented.

    2. Re:Yet another pointless speculation article... by supersloshy · · Score: 1

      You've never seen the Arch Wiki, have you? I swear, it's the most helpful documentation I've ever read, and some of it's tips can be used for other distros as well.

      --
      "Our country is not nearly so overrun with the bigoted as it is overrun with the broadminded." -Archbishop Fulton Sheen
    3. Re:Yet another pointless speculation article... by martin_dk · · Score: 1

      While I do agree with your point, well known technologies lie behind most new buzz words, we should appreciate anyway when somebody rebrands the different Linux distributions.

      Take a look at the features on a smart phone. It's mostly features we've known on the desktop for years. Applied and combined in new ways. Sometimes just renamed to new buzz words.

      I personally celebrate every step towards raising the technical mainstream level. Pushing Linux towards the mainstream market is a step.

  32. No because they missed Usibility 101 by Lumpy · · Score: 1

    Honestly Unity I had high hopes for until I tried living with it for a week with a RC.

    It's great for insulating all the dirtyness of a computer from a user... including keeping all the utilities and configuration apps away from you. changing the power settings ended up a frustrating search and a give up to the Xterminal to do it by hand in a command prompt. It also is badly broken on laptops as it will not return to full brightness after a screen sleep like 10.10 did. I can close the lid and 60% of the time the screen will blank and turn off the backlight, 40% of the time it does not, again 10.10 did not have this problem.

    Unity was not fully tested before release, it's a beta release at best.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  33. Not until they make the OS hassle free by Piata · · Score: 1

    It might just be my setup (windows on master hd, ubuntu on slave) but when I first installed it, GRUB messed up and wouldn't boot. I had to manually edit the boot loader to make Ubuntu work. Last night I installed 11.04, system reboots and guess what! System won't boot. Another GRUB error. At that point I turned off my computer and said to hell with it.

    I'm somewhat computer savvy as well. I build my own desktops, I've installed win98, win2k, winXP and Vista on machines before. If I'm having this much trouble with Linux (my difficulties go well beyond the GRUB problems) then I can only imagine the difficulties someone less techinical would have. Linux is a great server OS, but it's still not ready for desktop use. I love open source as a concept but I find most software developed in this manor to be lacking (GIMP, I'm looking your way).

    1. Re:Not until they make the OS hassle free by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > Linux is a great server OS

      Except pretty much the same things that make an OS great for servers makes it good for the desktop.

      The kinds of problems you are complaining about for "desktop Linux" are even less tolerable for "server Linux".

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    2. Re:Not until they make the OS hassle free by ischorr · · Score: 1

      I try to seriously use Linux as a personal (home or work) system about every 6 months (maybe once a year nowadays). Invariably within the first few weeks I have to spend 2+ hours going through something like this; hacking Makefiles, finding some obscure patch, editing some file I really shouldn't have to. (Actually, my tolerance has dropped to about 20 minutes). At that point I stop using it. Repeat.

    3. Re:Not until they make the OS hassle free by westyvw · · Score: 1

      Everyone in my household and most of my friends use Linux on the desktop. Windows, at this point, seems foreign and difficult. Support from me is almost always about Windows, with some support for how a specific app works (like really getting use out of Digikam or Firefox plugins). From my point of view, windows is not ready for desktop use. As for windows, try setting up Linux first and adding Windows as the other OS. Think that is easy? Much worse then dealing with Grub. I have not had a problem setting up a dual booting computer in a long time, so I dont know why yours is difficult, but I am guessing its using the slave and setting the MBR.

      I find the comment about GIMP a little odd, it does need to support more color space, but whats wrong with the app itself? In Linux the workflow of multi windows with focus follows mouse is really nice to work with. Not to mention that you can leave it in one desktop and switch to another for other tasks so the layout is always the way you leave it.

    4. Re:Not until they make the OS hassle free by westyvw · · Score: 1

      I am so confused by this, see my comment above. No one in my household hacks any makefiles, gets obscure patches and things just work. Thats 6 computers, not counting servers, and they are all the standard desktops. We have been all linux for about 7 years now. Years ago there may have been some issues, but those days are long gone. What the hell do you do to your computer to make it so difficult to use?

  34. Re:I don't think so. by Lumpy · · Score: 1

    Really?

    I need to tell Oracle and RedHat to sue all their customers as they are not paying for their products. All those linux servers running Oracle are ILLEGAL!

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  35. Re:Ubuntu one... by war4peace · · Score: 1

    They still haven't fixed the proxy issue, as in "IT DOESN'T WORK BEHIND A PROXY". So unless they do, it means nothing to the many many people working in corporate environments :)

    --
    ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
  36. Nope. by JustAnotherIdiot · · Score: 1

    It's free, the word free confuses Apple to no end.

    --
    What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
  37. Really?? by ZenDragon · · Score: 1

    Who cares?? Linux is still open source, there IS still an alternative. If Canonical wants to push its own version to something apple-esque then thats their business. At the very least they are providing more variety of choices which is something you DONT get with apple. They are also helping to bring Linux to the mainstream so they must be doing something right. If you dont like it, stop complaining and go with one of the dozens of other distros.

  38. Re:Yup. by greed · · Score: 1

    You know you've really overdone it when you've got custom package specs in /sw/fink/dists/local....

    (Last night's mini-project: Get fink to build 'sox' with AAC support so it can mess around with ALAC files.)

  39. Not until it actually works by j1976 · · Score: 1

    Having seen the "stable" 11.04 release crash simply upon booting the live-cd and noting that the list of "known issues" is four screen pages long, I'd say they have some distance left to go.

    1. Re:Not until it actually works by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      Upgrading to a new Ubuntu release is usually a bad idea in the first month or so; I'm only doing it because my laptop hard drive is dying so I need to reinstall the OS on a new drive anyway.

  40. Natty prefers apple hardware... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    With the requirement on the Nvidia flavor video card to be at least a GeForce 9400, it looks to me like it almost prefers to run on Apple hardware.

  41. Re:Missing the point by uglyduckling · · Score: 1

    A lot of the differences have decreased since the release of Windows 7, but until then, if you put a non-expert Mac, Windows and Linux user in a conference room with their laptops, and asked them to perform a set of common tasks as quickly as possible, the Mac user would win hands-down every time. E.g.: connect a newly purchased printer and print a colour document, connect to a new wireless network and download a file, connect to a video projector and display a presentation with a presenter view on the laptop screen and the slides on the big screen. That's why the Mac became popular again - Apple optimised the things that drive regular users nuts on a daily basis, and they were willing to pay the premium (which, actually, isn't a huge difference compared to the high-end offerings from Sony, Dell, HP etc.)

  42. Apples to Canonicals by rzei · · Score: 1

    While I think everyone can be look up Apple for product "just working [out of the box]" I think that's where it ends at Canonical. They must realize that if they continue to push their Ubuntu One and such services too hard, they will lose developers and then after few releases later users to other distributions.

    Then again, I have nothing against them for "value-adding options", as long as those are "options" and do not make Ubuntu become the next Nokia Ovi (think about their [Windows] application for a few seconds -- horrible or the fact that most functions on my N8 require or prompt Ovi user account, and that bloody piece of sh*t can't care to remember my password anymore).

    I still think that Canonical has had a great and good influence on Linux [distribution] community as whole and their investment on UI and system level innovation and new projects has helped the desktop usage. And I'm not saying this to undermine contributions by for example Red Hat or any single open source developer person -- just that to my knowledge, Canonical has not been around for too long to step into the big influencers/innovators club. Also, the more big names (and directions) we have as long as they are working together as well as possible, it's all good (freedesktop.org, etc.).

  43. Re:Cash Flow... by nschubach · · Score: 1

    I remember when the Television ad bubble burst. There were so many advertisements and people stopped watching TV altogether. They went outside and threw Frisbees to each other. They all got skin cancer and became so deformed by the operations to remove the cancerous skin that they decided to go back inside and watch TV.

    --
    Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
  44. Is Microsoft the next Apple? by sidragon.net · · Score: 1

    They have application stores, music stores, cloud services, software for desktops and servers. They do not sell computers, but Windows can be used on any computer—even Macs!

  45. Re:Cash Flow... by Merk42 · · Score: 1

    Enjoy your paywalled websites I guess?

  46. Re:I don't think so. by airfoobar · · Score: 1

    Since we're obviously speaking in silly stereotypes, we could also say Linux users are supporters of the FSF's ideals and are opposed to all attempts by companies trying to lock them in with DRM and walled gardens like Apple does. Thus, Canonical couldn't turn into Apple because Apple's draconian shenanigans wouldn't work on Linux users.

    But silly stereotypes are silly, and I doubt all Linux users are little RMSs or that Linux users don't pay for software. My extensive data from my single-Linux-user dataset tells me that Linux users pay for software, but are also a little like RMS. It's the beard.

  47. open desktop, closed cloud by joeaguy · · Score: 1

    Canonical's similarities to Apple on the desktop are rather superficial. Unity is a rather awkward copy of parts of the Mac OS X UI. I do give them a lot of credit for trying, and I think Unity is salvageable, although with some work. As much as I am tempted to go on about how Unity is not really ready for prime time, except for maybe the most basic users, I won't.

    While most of the Ubuntu client side stuff is FOSS, the server side stuff specific to Ubuntu One from what I understand mostly is not. This is a big problem in the free software world right now, closed servers. You give up your data to a server without any ability to know what it is running. This denies you of the ability to verify what it is doing, to set up your own alternative servers, or use someone else's alternative server whom you may have a different trust relationship with.

    There are many attempts out there trying to rectify this, from distributions like freedombox, to new architecture like unhosted, to distributed networks like diaspora. All of this stuff is kind of early on. I don't blame Cananonical for going with what they know on the server side, but I do think they could do better. It feel like the cloud stuff is all about monetization to them, and not about also pushing and promoting a different approach to technology, which is what free software is all about. In that regards they are behaving like Apple, and really like most companies tend to behave.

    Its the "the successful know better than you" attitude that is really pervasive in the world right now, from computers to politics. Free software is more about a participatory democracy, with code given the consent of trust by its users, and that consent can only be given if it is informed and all have equal access. You see it in Unity too, a UI that has almost no configuration options without having to install other tools. It says "we know better than you". I am hoping that Canonical's plan here was to start with it locked down and then take the best mods from the community and work them in. Unity is at least free software, so it has the possibility of the community fixing it. The stuff running on their cloud servers is not so lucky.

    I have always liked how Ubuntu "just works", giving a good balance of a lot of competing requirements, realities and philosophies to come up with a pragmatic solution to having a useful Linux with little fuss. I feel they are going in a direction where they could end up getting this balance wrong, and people may end up going elsewhere once someone fills the vacuum they leave.

  48. No by zmooc · · Score: 1

    No no no! Most definately not. It's obvious from just about anything Canonical does that they're simply not able to create an experience that's as polished as the Apple experience. They don't even come close. Much worse is that they turn just about everything upside down with each release. All my perfectly tweaked settings gone with a single click. It's just crap. I'll keep using it and will never succumd to the Apple vendor lock-in, but my god, is Canonical trying to push me to the other side...

    --
    0x or or snor perron?!
  49. Back in the real world... by faust2097 · · Score: 1

    Read this:
    https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-April/032988.html
    and then have a good laugh about this whole line of thought. Canonical is an effort to make a more usable default Linux desktop but they have one major problem (and many minor ones): Mark Shuttleworth is a terrible UI designer and either all the designers he employs are terrible as well, nobody at canonical is willing to stand up to him or he's not willing to take feedback from the designers he employs. Making a cargo cult hybrid of OS X and Windows 7 isn't going to do anyone any good.

    Even the article doesn't get it, it assumes that Apple is successful because they "dumbed down UNIX".

    1. Re:Back in the real world... by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Apple was never successful as an OS company.

      Their current success is as a consumer electronics company. Their OS still languishes as an also ran just like it did when all Microsoft really had to offer was MS-DOS.

      Apple is the iPod company, not the MacOS company.

      Trying to steal their dumber ideas from the desktop is not very useful.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  50. Re:Missing the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You're nothing but an Apple shill. I was looking over your other comments and you can't help but to scream that Apple is always better and the areas where you do admit there is a problem with an Apple product you always blame a third party. Go astroturf elsewhere.

  51. Ubuntu's Not Linux by slapout · · Score: 1

    Ubuntu's Not Linux = UNL? Or is that suppose to be GNU/UNL?

    --
    Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
  52. Deja vu? by DocZayus · · Score: 1

    Kind of reminds me of Linspire/Lindows...

    --
    -- http://www.doczayus.com/
  53. I supose... by D+rent · · Score: 1

    in the dreams of mark shuttleworth maybe... What is true, is than lately most of ubuntu users (and im one of them) are starting to talk like mac fan-boys. They kind of worship a leader than thinks for them and decide what's better for their desktop. And they not only doesn't hate it, but they even go mad at you if you just put in their forums things like "unity is a piece of crap", which actually it is...

  54. Re:Cash Flow... by Eponymous+Coward · · Score: 1

    Why do you think it's a bubble? Advertising on the web is very inexpensive and can be effective. My employer has done quite well with adwords on Google. So much so that we've pretty much dropped all other advertising expenditures (ie ads in magazines). We still do the occasional trade show, but that's mostly about connecting with community rather than advertising / promotion.

  55. The company is named after a fruit by mangu · · Score: 1

    The Apple names sound like powerful and respected WWII Nazi tanks.

    Funny, I never heard of a Nazi "Macintosh" tank.

  56. Oh wait, you're serious by davidbrit2 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Let me laugh even harder.

    1. Re:Oh wait, you're serious by fat_mike · · Score: 1

      At what point does the "win" happen?

  57. Gateway Filter, Please by DanielSmedegaardBuus · · Score: 1

    How did this article make it through to my RSS feed? Is all you need these days to reach the masses produce infantile observations and deliver it with the noun, "Apple", in the heading?

    Reading through this article is a genuine pain. The author clearly has no insight in half of his subject, has only limited insight in the other half, lacks journalistic education, is biased, makes wrongful and outdated "observations", and draws parallels where no parallels exist. Just to name a few. It's a class book example of misconclusions - and even that is giving it more credit than it deserves.

    The aim here is not to present a subject for discussion (one must sincerely hope, anyway, because in that case, the author is beyond professional salvation), but a cheap trolling trick to mass up clicks and tweets pointing to his site. It's blatantly obvious, and I have to say, "Shame on you, slashdot, for letting this one slip through!"

  58. Re:Yup. by iluvcapra · · Score: 1

    I don't think AAC support will get you ALAC, two different packages.

    --
    Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
  59. Who's being who? by Quixotico · · Score: 1

    I thought APT came about in the late 90s and Synaptic released almost a decade ago. The App Store is only three years old.

  60. Re:Cash Flow... by Desler · · Score: 1

    Why do you think it's a bubble?

    Because ad revenues for TV and newspapers have been plummeting for a couple years now and it's only commonsense to think that the same thing is going to happen with ad revenue on the web? Or are you one of those people who were trying to convince everyone that the dotcom bubble was non-existent or how real estate values could never possible go down?

  61. Re:Ubuntu one... by Daengbo · · Score: 1

    Win-a, "proxy" doesn't fix that problem for you? ;)

  62. Re:Cash Flow... by iluvcapra · · Score: 1

    No, they hit the fast-forward button on their Tivo, switched to Netflix, went off to play videogames and surf the Internet, where the admen have now found them. There wasn't a dramatic "poof" moment, but TV ad revenues as a share of total ad revenues have been on a decline for years.

    --
    Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
  63. Are Horses the New Minivans? by DanielSmedegaardBuus · · Score: 1

    Is Obama the new jellyfish?
    Is toilet paper the new newspaper?
    Is 7-Eleven the new Victoria's Secret?
    Are public schools the new Wall Street?

    Let's discuss this! Oh wait, let's not, because I have no arguments, and my point is retarded. Sorry!

  64. Re:10.10 The Last and Best by 0123456 · · Score: 1

    I have one machine running 10.10. As of a few weeks ago Gnome crashes so often that we had to switch to Unity, and Unity crashes any time we close a Firefox window.

    I certainly hope 11.04 isn't that bad.

  65. Re:Cash Flow... by Eponymous+Coward · · Score: 1

    I think there are a lot of companies like the one I work for who have been moving their ad money from print to online. Newspaper ad revenue has been declining as their circulation numbers drop. As far as I know, the internet isn't bleeding users yet.

    Google and social sites like Groupon have made it possible for even very small, local companies to advertise effectively. I think that's where a lot of the new ad money is coming from. In other words, money shifting out of local newspapers, cable stations, and yellow pages into online campaigns.

  66. Unity by JustNiz · · Score: 1

    I mean seriously, what are Canonical smoking?
    They really expect us to actually use Unity?

    Its the biggest pile of crap and largest setback of basic usability I've seen since Vista came out.

    Just the pain you have to go through to find an app you want to launch is an exercise i futility and a perfect example of what NOT to do in basic user-interface design.

    I can't believe that some reviews of Unity out there are actually positive.

    .

  67. Re:So installing Fink is your definition of just w by s73v3r · · Score: 1

    You are retarded. Having to install a 3rd party app doesn't mean that something no longer "Just Works".

  68. Ubuntu Vista 11.04 defies expectations by David+Gerard · · Score: 1

    THAWTELESS, Star City, Monday (NNGadget) — Canonical, Inc. has announced the release of Ubuntu 11.04, "Venereal Vista," entred around the Unity desktop, which only 5 out of 11 first-time users managed to crash in final testing two weeks ago.

    The Unity desktop is Canonical's response to the GNOME 3 shell, which uses 1 gigabyte of RAM and four processor cores to exquisitely render a single button in the centre of the screen in beautifully anti-aliased text; when pressed, GNOME tells the user to switch off the computer and do something useful with their life, such as showering.

    "This was just not up to the user expectations of Canonical's vision of the desktop," said Mark Shuttleworth, from his castle high on a crag in West London. "So we added a 'minimise' button too."

    Design is at the centre of Shuttleworth's roadmap for Unity. "I woke up one day and thought, 'Gosh, I'd really like to make using my universal general-purpose computer that I can do ANYTHING with feel like I'm using a locked-down three-year-old half-smart phone through the clunky mechanism some l33t h@xx0r used to jailbreak it,' I can't think of a better user experience.' We're not quite there yet, but Unity gets you a lot of the way."

    Shuttleworth foresees an exciting future for Linux for the general Internet user. "It'll be a whole world of Linux devices, which millions of people will use all the time, everywhere! Of course, at the moment those are called 'phones' and run Android."

    Photo: A load of arse.

    --
    http://rocknerd.co.uk
  69. Stupid Headline by SJ2000 · · Score: 1
  70. Re:Cash Flow... by guybrush3pwood · · Score: 1

    Because ad revenues for TV and newspapers have been plummeting for a couple years now and it's only commonsense to think that the same thing is going to happen with ad revenue on the web? Or are you one of those people who were trying to convince everyone that the dotcom bubble was non-existent or how real estate values could never possible go down?

    The advertising market shifts format, but does not reduce total volume as long as production keeps a certain level. When and if the business model of sites such as Google begins to drain, it'd mean that a new advertising format has emerged.

    As a thought experiment, it's not unimaginable that within a few years the movile phones will be one of the most widely chosen platform to deliver advertising along with entertainment content.

    So, Google Inc. might survive even if Google.com dies; unlikely in the mid-term, but definitely possible.

    I don't think the analogy with the real-state bubble is appropriate.

    --
    Perhaps I'm trolling, perhaps I'm not.
  71. Also... by ischorr · · Score: 2

    2011 will be the year of Desktop Linux.

  72. What a troll by kikito · · Score: 1

    That is all.

  73. Yeah right. by Beelzebud · · Score: 1

    When I can download Apple's OS for free, and put it on any hardware I want to, we'll talk.

  74. Re:Cash Flow... by Risen888 · · Score: 1

    [citation needed]

    --
    Hey, I finally got my first freak! Took you long enough!
  75. Natty and GNOME by Dennis+Sheil · · Score: 1
    You make an important point. Unity is a fork of Gnome. Most of the fork is not only in the user interface, but in the user visible part of the UI. Very little of the nuts and bolts underneath has been forked. So if you click around the UI as opposed to the code, it can seem the fork is bigger than it really is. Unity takes advantage of the modularity and flexibility of Gnome code. Yes, Gnome is not known for flexibility within the UI itself, but the ability to create a fork like Unity is a demonstration that the code base is written in a modular, flexible manner.

    The way I look at this is Canonical/Ubuntu/Unity versus Gnome 3 and the companies and distributions which are issuing Gnome 3 desktops. The best methodology I can come up with to find marketplace penetration is web server logs for major websites. On that basis, Ubuntu currently has more than 13 desktops out there for every 1 of its closest competitor - Fedora. The SuSE's have less then Fedora, Debian less than he SuSE's and so forth.

    The result of Canonical's shift is that the majority of non-mobile Linux desktop users were using Gnome 2, and will now be using Unity. They're still using Gnome nuts and bolts though. I am most familiar with the document displayer that both Gnome 3 and Unity use - evince, and the library it uses to render PDFs, poppler. Ubuntu has provided dozens of useful bug reports to these projects, as the large base of users has exposed bugs that people had just not encountered (or reported) before.

    I have played with Natty (with Unity) and Gnome 3, and will probably wind up with my main OS on my multi-boot system being Natty running Unity, with a special user on Natty running Gnome 3 compiled from jhbuild (compiled off the latest git commits). A lot of changes on Unity I find less than thrilling such as close window moving to the left side of the window toolbar, and the rest of the window tool bars moving to the top of the screen. For both Unity and Gnome 3, I am unhappy that switching workspaces has gone from a mouse move and a click, to a whole rigmarole of mouse moves and clicks. There's a reason many of these things were the way they were for the last 20 years, or more. I have the command lines and shortcuts to fix some of these things - like shifting left back to right on Unity tool bars - but still.

    1. Re:Natty and GNOME by supersloshy · · Score: 1

      For both Unity and Gnome 3, I am unhappy that switching workspaces has gone from a mouse move and a click, to a whole rigmarole of mouse moves and clicks. There's a reason many of these things were the way they were for the last 20 years, or more. I have the command lines and shortcuts to fix some of these things - like shifting left back to right on Unity tool bars - but still.

      It's only one mouse movement and one double-click in GNOME 3; even faster if you use both the keyboard and mouse at the same time. Just flick your mouse to the top left corner and double-click a workspace, press the Windows key and double-click, or simply use Ctrl+Alt+Up/Down. It's just about as easy as before, and it even supports "flicking" gestures on the activities menu to switch workspaces on a touchscreen.

      --
      "Our country is not nearly so overrun with the bigoted as it is overrun with the broadminded." -Archbishop Fulton Sheen
    2. Re:Natty and GNOME by arose · · Score: 1

      Just flick your mouse to the top left corner and double-click a workspace

      OTOH they decided to put the workspaces about as far as possible from the top left corner...

      --
      Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
  76. "Used" on any computer? by singhulariti · · Score: 1

    Unless you are the unlucky few having driver issues (I'm one of the lucky one's )

  77. Apple isn't even the next Apple. by Kamiza+Ikioi · · Score: 1

    Chasing Apple on services? Yeah, sorta, if you're talking music and apps. Chasing Google if you mean web based services. Chasing Amazon if you mean cloud computing. Chasing microsoft... heh, just kidding.

    But let's not chalk it all up to Apple. Nobody chased Apple into mp3 players, rather, it was the other way around. The same with PDA/Smartphones. Apple is not an innovator, it is a refiner. And if you want to make the point that Ubuntu is moving away from trying to reinvent the wheel into just refining it, then you're absolutely correct.

    I just find it hilarious when Apple fanboys talk about chasing Apple. Apple switched to a nix architecture, but now we're going to say Ubuntu is chasing Apple? HAHA! That's like claiming Palm was chasing Apple with its phone. Palm cornered the PDA market. All they did was add a cell radio to the same thing they'd always been doing. Which is why it failed, imho. But Apple was chasing Palm, RIM, and Nokia. But what they really did was refine, and they did it better than anyone else. But chase? I think not. You can't chase a company who always waits at least 1 generation behind cutting edge tech.

    Apple is very good at refining. I think Canonical has done well too. I just upgraded from 10.10 to 11.04 this morning. At first I had the "WTF!" experience. Then I gave it some time, and realized that for many users, this will be so much better. Once I found my administration programs, and swallowed the vomit that had risen in my throat at finding the WORST features of OSX on my updated desktop, I realized that the positive outweighed the good... and I can still customize what I want.

    --
    I8-D
  78. sounds like a good first step by hedrick · · Score: 1

    I would love to use Linux. But first and foremost the OS has to be able to do everything Mac OS or Windows can do. That includes licensed content. Currently iTunes won't run on Linux in any realistic way, and there's no real alternative. I doubt that I'm alone. I'm glad someone in the Linux community is working on things like this. I'm also going to need MS Office, as I have to be able to exchange documents with administrators and OpenOffice's compatibility isn't really good enough for that.

    The Linux community has slowly understood that if you want to be a mainstream OS real people have to be able to install it. But once they've installed it, it's got to do what they need to do.

    1. Re:sounds like a good first step by dancingmad · · Score: 1

      Not sure what you need iTunes for (since there are somethings alternatives can't do), but what about Songbird?

      --
      "There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter," Jeeves, (Jeeves and the Impending Doom)
    2. Re:sounds like a good first step by westyvw · · Score: 1

      Please, Please Please may iTunes NEVER come near my Linux box. Damn I hate that software, both in the way it does things, and in the whole idea behind it.

      Long live Clementine, Amarok, and DeadBeef.

      Oh and you too VLC.

    3. Re:sounds like a good first step by westyvw · · Score: 1

      And a lot of things Linux Music stuff DOES do that iTunes just cant as well.

  79. Maybe learning from smartphone UIs is a good idea by FoolishOwl · · Score: 2

    For years, I've heard people complain that computer user interfaces are too complex and confusing. Recently, there's an enormous surge of enthusiasm for smartphones and tablets, and people keep saying how great the user interfaces are and how they prefer them to their desktops, despite the small screens with tiny print and the tiny keyboards.

    Perhaps smartphone UIs are actually really good UIs, and there are lessons to learn from them. Perhaps users who are used to smartphone UIs would prefer similar UIs on desktops.

    One thing I want from a general UI is for it to get the fsck out of the way when I'm using an application. Smartphone UIs are good at this. Unity is good at this.

  80. Big Brother would be proud... by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1

    Orwell getting a malicious app.

    --
    We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
  81. Their UI has some major issues by PhunkySchtuff · · Score: 1

    Simple things, things that should have never passed QA, and would never get out of the lab at Apple without being fixed.

    Take, for instance, the simple matter of resizing a window. You can grab the window border and resize the window horizontally or vertically. This is good, what could be bad about a feature like this, Windows has let you do this for years.

    Well, the target to grab, the window border's active draggable area is 2 pixels wide. Paul Fitts would like to say something about that.

  82. Re:Ubuntu one... by war4peace · · Score: 1
    --
    ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
  83. No by robogobo · · Score: 1

    Will a New Holland B95B Tractor Loader Backhoe be the next VW Beetle?

  84. Unity by eyore15 · · Score: 1

    My complaint is that it requires a relatively up-to-date video card. I have some older P4 HT machines that won't run it. I always liked Ubuntu because it worked on so many systems. I'd see people posting with systems running on P3s. That's not going to be possible any more. I'll stay with 10.04 (LTS), so I'll be cool for another couple of years. But beyond that, I have to buy new computers if I want to stay with Ubuntu. I don't see 11.04 as a positive move.

  85. Interesting Point to Ponder by amobley1108 · · Score: 1

    This is a good point to ponder especially considering the selection music available in the Ubuntu One music store as well other multi-platform cloud services available from Cononical.