Sony Releases PS3 3.61 Update Ahead of PSN's Imminent Return

Sonny Yatsen writes "Sony has released the PS3 3.61 firmware update as a part of the phased return of the Playstation Network and Qriocity. The new update now requires all PSN users to change their passwords in order to sign back into the PSN service." And several readers are pointing to reports that the network is slowly being spun up. Snips one anonymous submitter: "Sony Japan told customers today that it would begin phased restoration of its services of its beleaguered Playstation Network which has been suffering from an outage for nearly a month. The company would start bringing back its gaming network this Sunday, on a country-by-country basis, and expects it to be completed by May 31."

Comments

The problems go much deeper

[symbolset]

There are reports today that Sony's networks still are oblivious to real security. Among the serious vulnerabilities are links to globally viewable security consoles in robots.txt files, ID web-management consoles being publicly available and indexed in Google, and more!

I guess the upside is that if the hackers are going to get your credit card from Sony, they already have it so you may as well play your games too.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[jbplou]

I think the upside is for Nintendo because this is great advance marketing of their new system.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[Moryath]

The upside for everyone else - Wii, Xbox, PC - is that they've been playing their games this entire time.

Oh, and they don't have to update to an untested version of the "new system software" that still has a pretty good (as in, "non-negligible") chance of bricking your console with the update-from-HDD method they were using.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[Anonymous Coward]

Too late I think.

An outage like this one will cause more than a few to rethink why they spend so much time gaming online. Perhaps the issue may serve a higher purpose and get folks out doing something else.

I'm very curious to see how many will cancel their accounts with SOE after this, and of those, how many will be better off for it.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[yuhong]

Note that the the report says some of these are already fixed.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[pnewhook]

The upside for everyone else - Wii, Xbox, PC - is that they've been playing their games this entire time.

I've been playing my PS3 games for the entire outage without it affecting me in the slightest.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[ZombieBraintrust]

I would bet big that Nintendo's new system will not include optional Linux. No one will be touching that feature in a long time.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[jesseck]

I would bet big that Nintendo's new system will not include optional Linux. No one will be touching that feature in a long time.

And yet, I have yet to hear / read (until your comment) that is was OtherOS which caused this.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[ZombieBraintrust]

Ohh I don't think the attack had anything to do with OtherOS. My statement says nothing of the sort. Apparently, a lot of people believe that this attack was revenge for removing Linux. I believe Nintendo will not want to offer a feature that has such a large backlash if they remove it. Especially a feature their customers are not likely to use.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[Cable]

If hackers have our credit cards then we need to tell our banks to give us a new card and different number. Either that or monitor the card with email alerts and report it to the bank to dismiss the charges the hackers made and get a new card.

This has happened to me before many times. Web site or network I join gets broken into. Then later my real name, address, phone number, credit cards, and other things gets posted on the Internet with a hacker using my info to buy stuff and fake untrue profiles of me including pictures of me they also stole. I reported Otto the police and FBI but they could not do anything, but the banks can issue new credit cards and the web site with a fake profile of me either deletes it or refuses to delete it based on the terms of service. So some fake profiles I could not get deleted but most I could.

Not knowing who they are, I cannot even file a report on them until I find their real names and addresses to get a search warrant. So the untrue stuff about me and others are in search engines been that way since 1999 as far as I can remember. If they are outside the USA well nothing else to do.

Oh well I guess I got some sort of clones, evil twins, impostors, and the like out there using my name and nothing I can do about. If I try to make it an issue the whole thing would be the stristan effect (sorry unable to spell her name correctly as I am tired and stressed out right now) and it gives those accounts more attention and popularity. Best to ignore it and eventually they will move on to something else. PSN is back up hope it stays up.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[symbolset]

When I give a credit card to a website I assume it will be compromised. When I make an account on my right name I assume the same. It's the cost of the convenience. And yes, I have a Facebook page under my right name. I haven't been robbed yet that I know of, but if I am it won't kill me. Identity theft is becoming so common that anybody can be whoever they claim to be - which is the way it was before we had all this technology.

Frankly it's easier to invent fictional people and build their credit to the point where it's exploitable than to exploit the credit of extant people. The people who do this aren't out to get you. They just want money.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[SuperDre]

If you look closely at the identified problems, you'll see that most of those problems aren't even Sony only problems, but common problems on many MANY websites.. Even a site as slashdot isn't safe for a real hacker if he/she sets his/her mind to it..

Re:The problems go much deeper

[DarwinSurvivor]

I can't believe people actually think it was "revenge". You don't get revenge on a company by attacking their customers and then not even leaving so much as a threatening note...

Re:The problems go much deeper

[symbolset]

Many websites have security problems. When we deal with a global brand like Sony we expect better than the results from anonymous bloggers. We expect that they know what security is, and that they act on that. That is the value of the brand.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[Anthony Mouse]

I would bet big that Nintendo's new system will not include optional Linux. No one will be touching that feature in a long time.

Anyone paying attention would understand that the lesson from all this is the opposite: By offering Linux, Sony put off the day when people broke the PS3 for several years. Their biggest mistake was not giving Linux full access to the hardware, because it caused people to have to break their security in order to do that, which is what kicked off this whole mess.

The fact is that there are people who will do whatever it takes to install Linux on anything they own. If you give them what they want at the outset, they don't have to break your security model in order to get it. If you try to make it hard for them, they just see it as a challenge and when they succeed they bust everything wide open and that allows the pirates and the cheaters to get in.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[Anonymous Coward]

That's awesome, but here's a question: why are you posting on slashdot instead of going in for round 2 (or round n+1)?

Re:The problems go much deeper

[symbolset]

What's meaningful is that Sony's networks had these vulnerabilities for years. It lines up with their DRM efforts that are easily exploited. It means that the folk involved with decision-making at Sony really are clueless. Hence this won't be the last exploit until that changes.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[Anonymous Coward]

honeypot, anyone?

Re:The problems go much deeper

[tlhIngan]

And yet, I have yet to hear / read (until your comment) that is was OtherOS which caused this.

More like a *lack* of OtherOS.

Face it - was the PS3 the most secure console? After all, the Wii and Xbox360 have been "hacked" to some extent (piracy and/or homebrew), but the PS3 was "secure".

Then in 2009 Sony releases the Slim PS3. Sometime in 2010, the PS3 is completely hacked, which if you go by when the Slims without OtherOS get hacked, happened around 12 months later. And this is a complete pwnage - all security in the PS3, broken.

At 12 months to complete pwnage, it's probably close to the average for consoles. At close to 5 years to first pwnage, it's a record.

Now, did the PS3 simply escape all efforts to hack it for piracy or other purposes because it was secure, or was it because those with the skills to do it were busy writing their homebrew? After they couldn't run Linux or run their homebrew anymore, perhaps they also had the necessary skills to start picking at the locks?

Sony did the right thing at first - homebrewers don't want piracy, and keeping them happy ensured the pirates would have a tough time. Homebrewers are a skilled lot with lots of interesting tools at their disposal and the knowledge to use it.

And considering that OtherOS was removed because of a super theoretical hack that wasn't even used in the end to pwn the PS3...

Re:The problems go much deeper

[Kelbear]

I feel that there's a market for added security credit cards.

Not being able to buy things online is a pretty significant inconvenience, but putting your information in the hands of vendors with completely unknown security measures means you're gambling everytime you buy from someone new.

I love the virtual credit card numbers offered by citibank and discover. I wish someone would take this service to the next level with purchase approval cards. The card gets swiped, the owner gets texted, and replies to the text with a blank message (purchases over a dollar limit requiring a password reply). Then the purchase gets approved. Naturally, this wouldn't be something you'd use at the grocery store, and yes there may be cases where someone steals your physical phone in addition to your credit card info. But it would serve a useful purpose as a supplementary card that can be used for transactions where you feel that you can't trust the other party to handle your credit card number.

It's just disturbing how little stands in their way once they get the credit card number. They're just so terribly simply to obtain, and they don't need anything else after they see it. I've had to book hotels where they only accepted reservation through /faxes/ of your credit card number. Best I could do there was call the manager to make sure she was standing next to the fax when it went through.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[gmhowell]

Recharge time. Duh.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[shutdown -p now]

Perhaps the issue may serve a higher purpose and get folks out doing something else.

Yes, like playing D&D, which, of course, doesn't require any connection - only a steady supply of pizza! ~

Re:The problems go much deeper

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Ohh I don't think the attack had anything to do with OtherOS. My statement says nothing of the sort. Apparently, a lot of people believe that this attack was revenge for removing Linux. I believe Nintendo will not want to offer a feature that has such a large backlash if they remove it. Especially a feature their customers are not likely to use.

Nintendo won't want to offer that as a feature because it has nothing to do with gaming.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[donscarletti]

I've been playing PS3 games this whole time, just not online. The same applies to my XBox since I refuse to buy Gold membership, but I will start playing on PSN again once it comes back.

I'm not going to apologize for Sony and say that they are not incompetent in online security, but this will not quell my interest in PS3 any more than Sony's other numerous blunders, because I still believe that PS3 is a great piece of consumer electronics. As a software guy, I have always known Sony are a bunch of guys who just do not understand software, take PS3's awful operating system into account, it just refuses to multitask between some combos of apps, like opening a webbrowser or playing music while you are browsing the store, it obviously has not implemented its file system correctly since you cannot copy directly from the network to a memory card or a thumb drive. I implemented a better operating system than these guys for my honours thesis and that was rubbish. But, a PS3 is just such a good piece of hardware, it supports so many different types of media and device, you can just plug a keyboard or mouse up to it, or use bluetooth and it will work as it should, stick in a blueray, dvd or cd and it will play it or fill that same disk with movie and sound files and it will play that too. HDMI port as well as digital audio and standard analogue at the back all works great with standard cable, SD, MS and CF at the front (now removed sadly but great if you have a first gen model). It's quiet, reliable and looks good. Also, it handles games pretty well too, kind of gets the rough end on ports because it does not make sense to develop a multi-platform game around the PS3's little quirks.

It comes down to it, PSN is kind of awful compared to XBox Live Gold, but it is free. Once again, Sony are bumbling idiots when it comes to software, but I've known that for years, no company that cared about software would even consider using the Cell processor since it is torture for programmers. But if I am buying new hardware, Sony obviously (in my mind) makes the very best and I will buy it. I just wish they outsourced their software to Europe or North America since Japanese have always had difficulty with large software projects.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[icebraining]

Not to mention that Slashdot doesn't ask for CC numbers.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[peppepz]

All PS3 hacks either started on Linux or explicitly required Linux. The final PS3 hack was possible only because the hackers could remotely control from a PC a fat PS3 running Linux (see the fai0verflow press conference on youtube).

So Sony paid dearly the fact that they did make the most open gaming consoles, giving their users an official way to run Linux on both the PS2 and the PS3. Hadn't they done so, just like their competitors such as Microsoft and Nintendo who would not dream of letting you run Linux, their console would still be secure.

Oh, and about the desire to run homebrew software vs. to play games for free: the very first functional hack of the PS3 (the USB dongle one) was released by commercial companies for the sole purpose of running pirated games. And it was devised by looking at the memory dumps of the console, which could only be obtained from Linux by running "super theoretical hacks".

Re:The problems go much deeper

[soupd]

How is this an 'upside' for Wii, Xbox and PC owners - unless of course they are petty, small-minded people who take some perverse pleasure in somebody else not being able enjoying themselves?

Re:The problems go much deeper

[tepples]

I've been playing my PS3 games for the entire outage

This is true of disc games. But it's not true of a few PSN games published by Capcom that require logging in to PSN before playing as a way to crack down on what Capcom believes to be excessive "game sharing".

Re:The problems go much deeper

[yarnosh]

Maybe. It doesn't sound the the Wii2 will be particularly powerful. For me, the only viable alternative to the PS3 is the Xbox360.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[Maudib]

Great. Keep giving your money to these assholes.

The ethical thing to do is to boycot them. Rootkits, pulling otheros, suing customers, this stuff won't stop so long as there are sociopaths like yourself giving them money.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[anomaly256]

OtherOS was removed because IBM complained that the military and other large firms were buying PS3's to create low cost CELL clusters instead of their bladecentres they invested billions in...

Re:The problems go much deeper

[Tarlus]

Nintendo will need to seriously overhaul their model for online interactivity before they could even be placed in the same ball park as XBL and PSN. As it is, they could not use the Wii's present level of online interactivity on the new console and hope to welcome in PSN refugees. They'd all sooner hop over to XBL.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

or maybe holier than thou assholes like yourself will simply kill yourselves over the fact that not everyone gives a shit about whatever it is that you do with your time.

.... said the guy who spent his Saturday anonymously flaming people on Slashdot.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[Anonymous Coward]

You know what does affect me though is now I get to sit thru another update. ANOTHER FUCKING UPDATE. That does very little for me. No new features other than fixing 'broken' things. Im looking at you Sony for this tit for tat thing.

Look I know all you hackers (im looking at you too) out there love the PS3 but please stop. I just want to play a game once and awhile. Wait until the things is about EOL then hack/bend it.

My once and awhile is usually every 2-4 weeks between playing. Half the time I am installing some sort of fucking update. OH YES I love sitting around waiting a half an hour to install updates. Just because someone 'leet' has hacked the bitch again.

Its hackable we get it. But for the love of god make the pain stop. You guys hack, the other 99% of us get to sit thru the pain of waiting on some update. How many thousands of man hours have been wasted because you want to hack it?

I also played a few games during this outage. Even bought a new one.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[AmiMoJo]

I will start playing on PSN again once it comes back

You mean you still trust them to keep your personal data, even now?

PS3 owners have two equally shitty choices:

A) Don't trust Sony and forgo PSN premium features, download-only games, DLC etc.

B) Give Sony your (new) credit card number and hope they don't leak it this time.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[Anonymous Coward]

Right, because Microsoft is so ethical that they would never deliberately sabotage Windows to prevent customers' copies of DR-DOS and WordPerfect from running on it, have a pattern of stealing code, abuse monopolistic position to pressure their customers (system vendors) from shipping Netscape, or secretly bankroll a third party lawsuit against a competitor.

And if you think Microsoft has suddenly become ethical because they haven't done anything similarly offensive with Xbox 360--well, that's only because they haven't managed to kill off Sony and Nintendo yet. One only needs to look at Windows, Internet Explorer and Microsoft Office to see what sort of product (non-)innovation happens to product domains which Microsoft ends up competing.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[lrobert98]

There's a third option:

C) Scrub your account of sensitive personal information and use Playstation cards purchsed from retailers to pay for anything new.

This is my choice. PSN itself is free so the hassle should be minimal.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[newtype hack]

you can shout boycott all you want, but unfortunately most people will just not care as long as they still have a platform to play their games on. not everybody has been affected by these issues and those are the people who will continue to support them. until Atlus and nippon ichi start regularly creating for other systems, i certainly will continue to use playstation systems because that's where these publishers are putting their best titles.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[donscarletti]

Well, I'm not giving them my credit card again, I'm not that dumb... but most of PSN is free, so it shouldn't be much of an issue.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[node 3]

Which makes absolutely zero sense. Why would Sony make a move which would lead to *fewer* sales because a competitor "complained"?

IBM: "Hey, Sony, quit selling your product to the military, *we* want to sell to the military instead."
Sony: "Ok." ???

Is that *really* what you think happened?

Re:The problems go much deeper

[node 3]

The upside for everyone else - Wii, Xbox, PC - is that they've been playing their games this entire time.

And now they'll be back to playing their PS3s too. The impact from this will be long forgotten soon enough. Sony haters are few and far between, they just talk a lot online. The 25 million PS3 owners out there aren't going to just jump ship.

Oh, and they don't have to update to an untested version of the "new system software" that still has a pretty good (as in, "non-negligible") chance of bricking your console with the update-from-HDD method they were using.

What the fuck? Do you *really* think there's a "pretty good chance" the update will brick your console?

Re:The problems go much deeper

[anomaly256]

Because Sony don't profit from PS3 sales in the first place? And because IBM and Sony had a lot of vested interest in the CELL 'taking off' and one suffering HARDCORE means the fabrication costs for the other climb as well? Why *wouldn't* they? And recent court transcripts in the otheros-removal class action in the USA tend to back this up too.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[node 3]

I've been playing my PS3 games for the entire outage

This is true of disc games.

Yeah, too bad nobody ever plays those... ???

But it's not true of a few PSN games published by Capcom that require logging in to PSN before playing as a way to crack down on what Capcom believes to be excessive "game sharing".

Wow, a "few PSN games" were rendered unplayable by PSN being offline! OMG, that's *totally* a rebuttal to "I've been playing my PS3 games for the entire outage."!

Re:The problems go much deeper

[anomaly256]

Remember.. Sony make their PS3 money on GAME sales, royalties, and licensing out the SDK kit to dev houses. This is also how they claim they still own the ps3 and not you the consumer - because they subsidize the majority of the cost and don't actually pass it all on to you, in their infinite kindness they LOAN the ps3 to you and sell you a license to use it.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[Stupendoussteve]

What gamble? If someone uses your card for unauthorized purchases you call up the card company, they cancel the charges and issue you a new card. The most you are charged is $50, but most banks don't even charge that. It's a minor inconvenience waiting for your new card to arrive, but not dangerous unless you don't pay attention to your statements and end up with ruined credit.

If anyone is gambling it is the vendors that accept credit cards, because they are the ones that are out money and product if there is a fraudulent transaction.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[roju]

Why would Sony make a move which would lead to *fewer* sales because a competitor "complained"?

s/competitor/supplier/

Re:The problems go much deeper

[node 3]

Good point about profit on the consoles themselves. But the rest still doesn't make any sense. What difference does it make on production if Sony sells 10,000 cell processors for use in a supercomputer, or IBM does?

Also, links to the transcripts or pertinent quotes? Otherwise it's just hearsay about something that doesn't even make any sense in the first place, that Sony pulled OtherOS simple because IBM asked them to. Even if the transcripts mention that IBM asked them to doesn't mean that's the reason.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[node 3]

They don't "claim they own the PS3".

Re:The problems go much deeper

[node 3]

Why would Sony make a move which would lead to *fewer* sales because a competitor "complained"?

s/competitor/supplier/

No, they are a competitor in sales of supercomputer components. "s///" is replace, not addition. Just because IBM is a supplier, that doesn't mean they are not also a competitor. And the role of competitor is what makes more sense in this particular context. Unless you can somehow show a reason to believe otherwise. Do you think IBM is going to risk millions of CPU sales to strong arm Sony in order to make a few thousand sales? More evidence than "ooh, corporate conspiracy" is needed to back up anomaly256's claim.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[anomaly256]

IBM fabricate the CELL for Sony. If IBM suffer because they don't sell the (otherwise) *very lucrative* BladeServers, cost of CELL goes up, Sony suffers. It's a pretty straight forward causal relationship... When you're in bed together, one person pissing the bed is pissing the bed for all persons

Re:The problems go much deeper

[anomaly256]

This is a problem because Sony subsidize the ps3 - they're selling the CELL at a loss (or at least have been right up until recently). IBM on the other hand sell the BladeServer versions of the CELL for an arm and a leg - bundling all sorts of management goodness and enterpriseness with it. Would you rather buy 10 ps3's at ~$300 each or a 10-blade chasis at $40k base + $10k per blde + $10k per storage blade + $10k for the backplane +... That's the kind of difference we're talking about here - it's not trivial by any means, it's f'ing huge

Re:The problems go much deeper

[Anonymous Coward]

Right, because Microsoft is so ethical

he's bashing the PS3, quick, direct him to old complaints about unrelated microsoft divisions

Re:The problems go much deeper

[cheater512]

My Wii has Other OS function. Don't know what you're talking about.

Granted, it wasn't built in, but its a awful lot trickier to take away too.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[donaldm]

Well, I'm not giving them my credit card again, I'm not that dumb... but most of PSN is free, so it shouldn't be much of an issue.

I never give my credit card details to gaming companies such as Microsoft, Nintendo or Sony, since I prefer to purchase games that come on physical media and those I can get from a shop or via PayPal. In addition I do check my credit purchases.

Physical media may be considered old fashioned by some but I can lone it to friends and even trade it in if I want. Why would I pay for a downloadable game which is restricted to my console?

I don't often play on-line so I did not really miss PSN being down. I could still use my web browser although I would normally use a PC for that as well as other none PSN network access. I could still play Blu-ray and DVD movies as well as mp4 and avi shows although I would prefer if the PS3 could play mkv files. Still I do have a translator that can convert mkv to mp4 if I need to.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone who has ever looked at the PSN would know that you're never required to have a credit card on your account. You can buy pre-paid cards offline that add a monetary value to your PSN wallet, just like you can buy Microsoft Points offline.

Hell some local department stores used to have the PSN cards included in their "storewide" 15% off sales.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a hard time believing you wrote an operating system for your thesis, or any piece of software for that matter, since you seem to be under the impression that all those device and media support are magically built into the PS3's hardware.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[justforgetme]

Idk about threatening notes but I think the attack did leave an economic impression on Sony. in the weeks PSN is down they surely have lost millions in sales, they have lost user loyalty and possibly helped their competitors cement themselves as the 'reliable' choice.

I'm not sure how important that is to Sony atm but I think some more persistent outages and even a giant like Sony won't be able to keep standing with the losses

Re:The problems go much deeper

[Anonymous Coward]

So Sony paid dearly the fact that they did make the most open gaming consoles, giving their users an official way to run Linux on both the PS2 and the PS3. Hadn't they done so, just like their competitors such as Microsoft and Nintendo who would not dream of letting you run Linux, their console would still be secure.

You mean, just like the Wii and X-box 360 are still secure? After all, they did exactly as you suggest Sony should have done.

The people who cracked the PS3 found the security severely lacking. Apparently the PS3 security and Sonys network security was built to the same standards.

I'm not sure about Nintendo, but Microsoft has learned a lot about security since the days of Windows 98. If anyone want to claim that the X-Box 360 security is as bad as the PS3, I'll want to see some pretty good evidence before I take said person seriously.

If the same resources had been thrown at the PS3 and X-Box 360, the X-Box would have lasted longer.

Re:The problems go much deeper

[Anonymous Coward]

You're trying to tell him what is and what isn't ethical for him to do with his own money and somehow he's the sociopath?

Re:The problems go much deeper

[peppepz]

You mean, just like the Wii and X-box 360 are still secure? After all, they did exactly as you suggest Sony should have done.

I mean that all the PS3 hacks started from its Linux feature. Which is a fact. Thus, until now (five years after the console was released), we can say that if the PS3 hadn't Linux, it would still be safe.

The people who cracked the PS3 found the security severely lacking. Apparently the PS3 security and Sonys network security was built to the same standards.

If it was so, then they would have cracked the console a few weeks after it was out, as they did with the Wii and the XBox 360. Saying that "the security was lacking" after it took you five years to crack it, has no credibility.

I'm not sure about Nintendo, but Microsoft has learned a lot about security since the days of Windows 98.

That's why cracking Windows has got easier and easier since the days of Windows XP.

If anyone want to claim that the X-Box 360 security is as bad as the PS3, I'll want to see some pretty good evidence before I take said person seriously.

I claim that the X-Box 360 security is much worse than the one on the PS3, because you can download from a web forum every single game released for the console, and play it for free, even online if you're cautious, and it has been possible to do so since a few weeks after the console launch. Good enough as evidence?

If the same resources had been thrown at the PS3 and X-Box 360, the X-Box would have lasted longer.

And that's your opinion, not backed by facts, which tell a much different story.

This patch doesn't work for me.

[Anonymous Coward]

My PS3 has a different BIOS, that starts-up as a prompt "GRUB:"

Anyone help me out if this will work in my PS3 emulator?

A bit behind

[x1r8a3k]

You can sign in and change you password now if you live in the northeast. Only thing up now is online games.

Re:A bit behind

[Anonymous Coward]

I had hoped they would include the maritime provinces (Nova Scotia, New Brunsiwck, PEI) in their definition of 'northeast', but, sadly, no. I'm in Nova Scotia and was only able to download the update.

Re:A bit behind

[gmhowell]

I had hoped they would include the maritime provinces (Nova Scotia, New Brunsiwck, PEI) in their definition of 'northeast', but, sadly, no. I'm in Nova Scotia and was only able to download the update.

Uhh, wouldn't that be southeast? Geez, you guys don't want to be our 52nd state (don't forget Puerto Rico) until there's a slim chance it might help you out.

Give us the Tim Horton's, you keep the French, and we'll see about that software update.

Bet it falls over from load

[raceface]

Common its Saturday night, whats the likelihood it get bombarded?

Phase in schedule posted

[PrimalChrome]

Well, not actually a schedule, but you can see when your state is back online :
Playstation Blog

Why change password?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a completely random password that even I don't even know. The password is saved in my PS3 somewhere.

How is it going to help anything if I change the password? Sony could just re-hash with a different salt the next time I login.

Re:Why change password?

[ZombieBraintrust]

I had a brother who forgot his password. My father had set up his account for him. He had a devil of a time getting the password reset. The answers to the security questions were a mix of my dads answers and things my dad thought my brother would answer. It took him months of trying things.

Re:Why change password?

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

I have a completely random password that even I don't even know. The password is saved in my PS3 somewhere.

How is it going to help anything if I change the password? Sony could just re-hash with a different salt the next time I login.

Ah, this sounds like the 1d-10-T problem that's been going around.

Why is the whole network linked to credit cards?

[whois]

Seems a big failure on design. If I designed a credit card payment system I would have it only be active in the portion of the network that required people to pay for something.

So... your playstation comes online and you want to sign in and play a game. Ok, the console has been authorized before it should be able to send a token saying "I'm whois let me play games."

In fact, PSN shouldn't really care who you are unless you're trying to buy something. Buying something and playing a game are two fundamentally different things. Your credit card should probably not be linked to the same username that you use for web browsing. There should be two accounts or two privilege levels that require different types of sign-on.

Why does the PSN network care who you are until you buy something? The entire store should still be online and all free downloads available, just no payed downloads until they fix that part. You should be able to play Black Ops without risking your financial future right?

You might say the customer wouldn't put up with the bullshit of having two accounts, or everyone will use the same password twice but:

1. If you explain how it works some people will do the right thing and be protected.
2. We've already put up with crazy amounts of bullshit, like weekly system updates that can't be backgrounded and take forever. Loss of features some people specifically payed for (ps2 compatibility, running Linux), and just a bad UI that can't do simple things like play your mp3 collection while you game or browse the store.

Woo Hoo Go Sony

[ZombieBraintrust]

Can't wait for PSN to be back up. Waiting has been like watching water boil. I have been doing all kinds of stupid things in the meantime. Like swimming, learning to play guitar, and spending money. I can't wait for my cheap, relaxing hobby to be fully back. Who cares about all the drama. I hope Sony all the best so I can get back to using my stuff. Let the haters hate somewhere else for awhile.

Re:Woo Hoo Go Sony

[lexsird]

Indeed, you don't miss it until you don't have it. That reminds me, I need to polish up my Mortal Combat moves .

Re:Woo Hoo Go Sony

[Anonymous Coward]

Let the haters hate somewhere else for awhile.

You really don't understand SONY at all, do you?

Re:Woo Hoo Go Sony

[Anonymous Coward]

Combat much, do you? Good luck with the lag.

DLing it now

[rjejr]

Slowly I turn, step by step, inch by inch. How many people are going to change their password to SONYSUCKS?

Re:DLing it now

[pnewhook]

How many people are going to change their password to SONYSUCKS?

Far less than the number of people changing their password to ANONYMOUSSUCKS

Re:DLing it now

[ZombieBraintrust]

Most of the people who would do that either A) Never owned a PS3 because they were totally boycotting PS3 before this happened dude. B) Have traded it in.

Re:DLing it now

[Anonymous Coward]

Why? The Internet is untrusted and it has been repeated from the start so if a bunch of nobodys can bring Sony down then the blame lands on Sony and only Sony.

Re:DLing it now

[Anonymous Coward]

To be fair, they sucked a long time before that.

At least it happened to Sony

[Aboroth]

I am not in favor of the innocent users becoming victims, but if this happened to any company, at least it happened to Sony. There are few companies that deserve this more than Sony.

Re:At least it happened to Sony

[kylemonger]

There are no innocents, only those who are apathetic. If you're still putting money into Sony's pockets after the crap they've pulled then you are part of the problem and deserve to suffer along with Sony.

Re:At least it happened to Sony

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

I am not in favor of the innocent users becoming victims, but if this happened to any company, at least it happened to Sony. There are few companies that deserve this more than Sony.

It's not even really a case of 'deserving' it. They created ill-will with a group of people, and those people retaliated. In the short term, a lot of people are getting burned by the outage. Looking at the big picture, however, Sony will have to think long and hard about whether or not to remove features in the future.

What the 'hackers' did was criminal and not justifiable. They should not have done this. (I bet somebody replies without having read this bit.) But if Sony shows any wisdom at all, they'll learn from it.

Re:At least it happened to Sony

[pnewhook]

There are few companies that deserve this more than Sony.

Now it's time to hunt down the Anonymous members responsible push them over and take away their lunch money. Thats about all you can do to basement dwelling 12 year olds.

Re:At least it happened to Sony

[PRMan]

Harsh, but somewhat deserved. The problem is that the mass media barely covers this stuff and the average person has no idea.

Re:At least it happened to Sony

[Eponymous Coward]

Wait, who's responsible?

Re:At least it happened to Sony

[countertrolling]

...the average person has no idea.

That's what they get for not reading Slashdot...

Re:At least it happened to Sony

[gmhowell]

...the average person has no idea.

That's what they get for not reading Slashdot...

Feature, not bug. All us non-functioning hi-IQ types have fucked this place up enough, what happens if the hoi polloi show up?

Oh, yeah, that.

Re:At least it happened to Sony

[Kalriath]

Anyone ever told you you're an arrogant, condescending douchebag? Frankly, it's none of your fucking business who any person wants to conduct business with, and if anyone deserves to suffer it's a jerkwad who thinks that just because a person chooses to deal with Sony (possibly because they don't give a shit about OtherOS or George Hotz) then they are apathetic fools deserving of righteous suffering.

Re:At least it happened to Sony

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

...the average person has no idea.

That's what they get for not reading Slashdot...

Well, to be fair, if they were reading Slashdot they'd hate a lot more things undeservedly.

Re:At least it happened to Sony

[Anonymous Coward]

Sony will have to think long and hard about whether or not to remove features in the future.

Or they will simply never implement those features again.

Re:At least it happened to Sony

[countertrolling]

Yeah, I've kinda noticed that over the last few days...

Re:At least it happened to Sony

[countertrolling]

With what has been posted on the front page during the last week, the differences aren't as dramatic as we would like to think... The mob here is very similar to that of genpop.. buncha hi-IQ haters and bigots (to paraphrase B D)

Re:At least it happened to Sony

[Maudib]

Spot on.

Ill go further. Its good when average people who are blissfully ignorant get some of the Sony treatment. Maybe now they will understand and stop giving these jerks money.

Re:At least it happened to Sony

[westlake]

There are no innocents, only those who are apathetic. If you're still putting money into Sony's pockets after the crap they've pulled then you are part of the problem and deserve to suffer along with Sony.

Among the 70 million PSN account holders there are, I would imagine, quite a few in a mood to rake the geek and the hacker over the coals.

Far from apathetic.

But simply sharing a different set of values and priorities.

Re:At least it happened to Sony

[tepples]

If you're still putting money into Sony's pockets after the crap they've pulled then you are part of the problem

Then how do you recommend that I find a grocery store that doesn't play Sony Music over its speaker system and therefore doesn't put money in Sony's pocket?

Re:At least it happened to Sony

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm kinda hoping a few indie servers for various PS3 games pop up now. If they know how to do the secret handshake, it should be possible to fake a PSN server now, right?

Re:At least it happened to Sony

[donaldm]

There are no innocents, only those who are apathetic. If you're still putting money into Sony's pockets after the crap they've pulled then you are part of the problem and deserve to suffer along with Sony.

Well said now start boycotting Microsoft and Nintendo as well for all the "crap" they have pulled as well :)

Re:At least it happened to Sony

[kylemonger]

Well said now start boycotting Microsoft and Nintendo as well for all the "crap" they have pulled as well :)

I'm doing my best. I still have my Atari Jaguar. :)

Re:At least it happened to Sony

[Sparton]

My mother (who's extent of gaming is playing Whirly Word on her iPod) literally phoned me about "people having their credit card information stolen due to the PS2 [sic] network breach". So don't worry, this shit definitely hit the mainstream news (with her saying PS2 probably just being a memory thing rather than news misreporting, but I can't confirm that).

Re:At least it happened to Sony

[PRMan]

But the rootkit, etc., etc., etc. didn't. So this is the first time most people are hearing ANYTHING negative about Sony.

Re:Why is the whole network linked to credit cards

[ZombieBraintrust]

You got to love arm chair systems architects. Every thing is easy peasy and obvious. Simple answer is:....

Management has no idea how things work. So they turn everything off at once during a breach. And turn everything back on in small steps with tons of testing along the way. It is a best practice as old as computing.

This is easy...

[Junta]

Maybe *you* don't know your password, but there is a good chance that the attackers can crack their copy of the hash and know your password. Resalting does precisely nothing because the danger is the attackers getting your password, and once they have that, any salt you apply will make no difference.

Re:This is easy...

[ZombieBraintrust]

Unlikely if it was truly random. The attackers likely only got the low hanging fruit. The p4ssw0rd, monkey, and princess fruit.

Re:Why is the whole network linked to credit cards

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

In fact, PSN shouldn't really care who you are unless you're trying to buy something.

Or unlocking Trophies, or listening if you're receiving messages from other players, or setting the status of what game you're playing, or to check whether or not you've got game invites periodically...

Oh, wait...

SOE games restored today

[kfsone]

Sony's SOE games (the MMOs, such as EverQuest) have been down for 2 weeks. They brought them back online earlier today.

Re:SOE games restored today

[cyber-vandal]

Are Sony offering any kind of counselling for those poor addicted geeks' horrendous withdrawal?

Re:SOE games restored today

[xhrit]

>Are Sony offering any kind of counselling for those poor addicted geeks' horrendous withdrawal?

yes, they are offering therapeutic QQ on the official sony forums.

Activating it per state

[saikou]

What I'm curious about is why do they re-activate the network per state.
As of right now, just California and a few New England states seem to be "online". One server per state? Sounds a bit odd.
Oh and the map is stored on Flickr. For a moment there I thought someone hacked their blog system too, and just posted faked-up "we're about to go live again" message.

Re:Activating it per state

[ZombieBraintrust]

California is huge population wise. It could easily need its own server.

Re:Activating it per state

[dave562]

I'm guessing they are doing it for the purposes of load testing. They selected two high population regions of the country on opposite coasts. If the system gets overwhelmed, they can spin up additional resources.

Re:Activating it per state

[Anonymous Coward]

Either that or they left a honeypot open to find the tool(s) who did it..

As a famous admiral once said: It's a trap

Re:Activating it per state

[guttentag]

According to the map there's a giant storm front of jumbled X, O, SQUARE and TRIANGLE symbols headed for Arizona, New Mexico and Texas. That may explain why those states are still offline while California, which should only just get grazed near San Diego, is already up and running. Not sure why Alaska's offline, since the map clearly shows the storm passing far to the north of Barrrow...

Re:Activating it per state

[GillyGuthrie]

I have heard legend of my company's old IT manager. He walked in one day and asked, "Ed, how many servers do we have?" Ed thought a moment, counted the physical servers in addition to the virtual servers, tried to come up with a number and ballparked, "Twenty or so." the manager replied, "That's too many."

the hilarious part is that the manager had no idea what a "server" was. I mean, literally no idea. The parent post reminded me of that story.

Re:Activating it per state

[ZombieBraintrust]

Yeah that a true. But not knowing anything about servers. I do know California is big.

Re:Activating it per state

[Tei]

Probably something to do with being able to predict how much horsepower is needed.

So if california get up, and theres not enough horses, buy more horses for the server farm.

If everything goes online at the same time, the horses dies.

Re:Activating it per state

[yarnosh]

To be fair, 20+ servers is a lot.

Re:Activating it per state

[evilviper]

Certainly several hundred if not thousand of severs per state, and likely spread across several major data centers, at least in the case of more populous states like Calif. Of course I'm just feeding what Sony is doing based on my experience with Second Life's racks of 1U servers as far as the eye can see...

Latency is a huge deal with gaming, so yeah, it makes perfect sense that it's per-state in some fashion.

Re:Activating it per state

[Anonymous Coward]

It's only half of a single rack - and even less if you're using blades, rather than 1U servers.

Not even enough to call it a server room, much less a data center.

Time to hack Frito Lays.

[Anonymous Coward]

Imagine the butthurt of nerds everywhere if the Cheetos supply ran out.

Re:Fuck you.

[Sir_Lewk]

they let devs be incredibly open

This whole thing got started because that is entirely incorrect you fucking moron. Sony got what they deserved, and hard. Chances are, it'll happen again.

Deal with it.

Lesson Learned

[ZombieBraintrust]

Lessons companies will learn:

1) Do not offer Linux.

2) Spend more money on security.

3) Have a simpler system with fewer features

4) Lie about security breaches. Never tell the customer they happen.

Re:Fuck you.

[ZombieBraintrust]

There trolls man. They sound more evil than they probably are.

Re:Fuck you.

[bloodhawk]

they let devs be incredibly open development wise.

ummm they actually got arse fucked for being the exact opposite of incredibly open development wise. But I doubt you will see it that way as you are really grasping at straws with your fanboism here, not even Microsoft come close to depths that sony have dredged in their extorting and screwing of consumers.

Re:Why is the whole network linked to credit cards

[Anonymous Coward]

All of which should be optional, not forced.

Did it because they were bored.

[ZombieBraintrust]

Your grasping at straws. This didn't happen because someone was seeking revenge. Thats like saying American went to war with Iraq over weapons of mass destruction. failoverflow hacked the PS3 because they were done hacking the Wii. George Hotz hacked the PS3 because he was done hacking IPhones. Anonymous attacked Sony for the lolz. Breaking these systems is their hobby. They would have done it eventually regardless of what Sony did.

Sony got what they deserved, period.

[Anonymous Coward]

I bought every Sony game system on release day including the PS3. After all of the crap they have pulled, I will never own another Sony product. My PS3 is now exclusively relegated to Blu-Ray player, and even at that sometimes it hangs while trying to figure out all of the updated DRM junk they build in to those disks. I also have an Xbox 360 and gaming desktop, and thats where I will stay for gaming. Sony's incompetent management has made mistake after mistake, shafting their customers at every turn. The best thing that could happen for Sony is a class action lawsuit that would force them to split into two companies, one a content provider and the other a hardware manufacturer. All of this customer abuse got started when they got into content ownership.

Re:Why is the whole network linked to credit cards

[Anonymous Coward]

When I worked for a spook house, the network was very nice. And not in any way connected to the internet. And there were people with sticks and bricks and bats (oh and carbines too, not pistols but rifles), that made sure that no "company" data got anywhere near the live internet. Its not that there wasn't at least one internet connection per office, its just that there was a locked door, and you needed to ask to go in, and blank media went in, and unblank media came out. It was like a diode. If you wanted the latest source code to something off the net, no problem. It was all one way. Radios, cell phones, televisions, scanners and any other device you can think of wouldn't work in there either. People streamed music over the lan for others to listen to. At any given moment, there were 4 or 5 different streams people could listen to over the computer. But it was cds brought in (past the full scrutiny of security), and played locally, and listened to locally. I also worked for a 911 call dispatch center. Some people there wanted a live internet connection right on the 911 workstations. You can only protest against a group for so long. It went in. When viruses caused serious problems (very directly related to lifesaving), everyone agreed that it had to go (and it did, and no complained again, and it only took a week to go from live to gone). Money isn't life and death, but sometimes its close. Credit card info should be stored on a separate system from the net, or at least dispatched from a secure site to the rest of the PSN. Sony has been good in electronics (although their use of proprietary formats makes you never want to buy from them again), but their computer products have been sucking for quite some time. I don't want or accept any data from them. I updated my PS3 up to when I heard about otheros going away, and my updates stopped. I've never been on PSN (and don't intend to). Mostly I use my PS3 as a media player: DVD/Blu-Ray, MP3, and as a dlna receiver.

Re:Fuck you.

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

My ps3 can talk to steam. Unreal 3 supports pc made mods. I can play super sf 4 with the same controller I played sf3 on ps2 with.

Microsoft doesn't allow this.

There are such a thing as non homebrew developers.

Re:Fuck you.

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

You do know that there are developers who makes games for a living right?

Not everything is homebrew. Thanks to Sony's actual openness, I have Portal 2 for Steam.

Bring back Other OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Sony should apologize and return Other OS functionality. I think this will please most 'hackers'. I would be happy because then I could actually update my PS3 and use PSN again. I have been without PSN access since they removed the functionality.

Re:Bring back Other OS

[ZombieBraintrust]

I can see them doing this for the PS3 fats. Not for the hackers though. The hackers will never be pleased by something like that. They were hacking the PS3 before OtherOS was removed. The hackers do it for the challenge. Some also do it for your credit cards.

They won't add it as a new feature for new PS3 slims. They sell those at a loss and hope to make money on games. People using PS3 as components in super computers don't buy games. They will definitely add it if they can get the tax breaks for general purpose computers back.

Re:Bring back Other OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Hardware hackers != Network hackers (for the most part) They may fight the same cause, but the 2 are fairly different activities.

Re:Fuck you.

[Anonymous Coward]

If you live in a society where whites, and only whites, are free to drink from public water fountains, are you actually living in a free society? Go rent a brain.

Re:Fuck you.

[Anonymous Coward]

even they don't deserve this.

Sony deserves everything anyone can throw at them at least since the rootkit debacle.

Re:Why is the whole network linked to credit cards

[The Dawn Of Time]

Which of those activities has anyone ever been forced to do?

Re:Why is the whole network linked to credit cards

[Anonymous Coward]

Seems a big failure on design. If I designed a credit card payment system I would have it only be active in the portion of the network that required people to pay for something.

So... your playstation comes online and you want to sign in and play a game. Ok, the console has been authorized before it should be able to send a token saying "I'm whois let me play games."

In fact, PSN shouldn't really care who you are unless you're trying to buy something. Buying something and playing a game are two fundamentally different things. Your credit card should probably not be linked to the same username that you use for web browsing. There should be two accounts or two privilege levels that require different types of sign-on.

Why does the PSN network care who you are until you buy something? The entire store should still be online and all free downloads available, just no payed downloads until they fix that part. You should be able to play Black Ops without risking your financial future right?

You might say the customer wouldn't put up with the bullshit of having two accounts, or everyone will use the same password twice but:

1. If you explain how it works some people will do the right thing and be protected.
2. We've already put up with crazy amounts of bullshit, like weekly system updates that can't be backgrounded and take forever. Loss of features some people specifically payed for (ps2 compatibility, running Linux), and just a bad UI that can't do simple things like play your mp3 collection while you game or browse the store.

interesting things,you can revere something go-to :http://www.globality-finance.com

Re:Fuck you.

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

Because locking down the bootloader and removing OtherOS is just like apartheid.

Seriously. Get some perspective.

Re:Why is the whole network linked to credit cards

[AdamHaun]

Has it actually been confirmed (by Visa, Mastercard, or Sony) that credit card numbers were stolen? Not just anecdotes -- we'd expect a few of the millions of PSN customers to be victims of ID theft anyway.

Re:Fuck you.

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

What about the millions Microsoft threw at business and government trying to squeeze FLOSS out with FUD?

What about the fact that Microsoft shipped an OS that could be root kitted by a CD claiming to be red book audio?

What about Microsoft's insistence on sticking with ActiveX and their broken ass implementation of DOM objects and JavaScript?

On and on and on. Microsoft is actually evil. Sony has done bad things. There is a huge difference.

Seriously. Get some perspective. Sony nor Nintendo want $60 a year from me for online play and Netflix.

Generalizing..

[headkase]

So, the PSN cloud failed for a month. It has made me rethink my enthusiasm for Google's ChromeOS. With my fat-desktop I can still do useful things with it without a network. With ChromeOS I'm not sure I can do anything if the network is disrupted. And initially, I was like: "Awesome! Want!" when Google announce ChromeOS..

Re:Generalizing..

[drinkypoo]

Much of the point of ChromeOS is that applications will have offline functionality. But don't let facts get in your way or anything. This seems familiar, did you post this same troll before?

Re:Generalizing..

[Psychotria]

And initially, I was like: "Awesome! Want!" when Google announce ChromeOS..

I'm genuinely interested: what made you think "Awesome! Want!" with regards to an "OS" not on your own computer?

Re:Generalizing..

[shutdown -p now]

Frankly, I think far more people are still confused about what ChromeOS gets them that Android doesn't.

And Google is definitely moving Android in a direction of running on multitude of form factors, not just phones and tablets. If you plug in a USB mouse into a Honeycomb tablet, you get a good old mouse cursor and can fully interact with the OS that way. In 3.1, they're adding mouse hover and scroll events to the API. Its browser syncs bookmarks, history and other settings with Google servers (which in turn can sync to your desktop Chrome). And, of course, you already have many more apps for it...

So, what's the advantage of ChromeOS, again? I expected it to be price, but those laptops they've announced recently don't look all that cheap compared to the recent slew of Honeycomb tablets; so that can't be it.

Re:Generalizing..

[gtch]

Much of the point of ChromeOS is that applications will have offline functionality.

The HTML5 technologies that ChromeOS will use for offline functionality are really designed to synchronise with the original server. So when Google Docs or your network goes down, you will be able to keep working on your document. But if you want to take your document somewhere else — say take a copy home as a file on a USB stick — you can't. Exporting documents is done in the cloud, not by the browser, so your document is stuck on your machine. You just have to wait until Google Docs works again so it can sync back up and then export it.

That is almost exactly the same as the PS3 outage. The PS3 console and games continue to work as normal offline, but you can't play online and you can't switch to a competing provider of online games. In a major outage of Google Docs, your ChromeOS would continue to work as normal offline, but you wouldn't be able to take the document anywhere or give it to someone else — and you wouldn't be able to switch to a competing provider like Office Live — because your data is stuck in the Google cloud. One day Google may fix this, but at the moment you would be stuck.

The problem here is being reliant on one company. On a desktop computer with a full operating system you've got myriad alternatives and competing solutions for any problem. On the PS3 and ChromeOS you've got a very simple-to-use system that's normally all you need; but if it fails then you're stuck with no alternative.

Re:Generalizing..

[icebraining]

In a major outage of Google Docs, your ChromeOS would continue to work as normal offline, but you wouldn't be able to take the document anywhere or give it to someone else â" and you wouldn't be able to switch to a competing provider like Office Live â" because your data is stuck in the Google cloud. One day Google may fix this, but at the moment you would be stuck.

That depends on whether you already had an account on some service like syncplicity which backups your Google Docs in realtime.

Google has open APIs to your data, and that makes all the difference.

Re:Generalizing..

[drinkypoo]

Much of the point of ChromeOS is that applications will have offline functionality.

The HTML5 technologies that ChromeOS will use for offline functionality are really designed to synchronise with the original server.

That's not true, Google is adding additional functionality to handle local file access. Again, don't let the facts get in your way or anything.

Re:Generalizing..

[drinkypoo]

Frankly, I think far more people are still confused about what ChromeOS gets them that Android doesn't.

Well, that IS the actual objection to Chrome OS, isn't it?

So, what's the advantage of ChromeOS, again? I expected it to be price, but those laptops they've announced recently don't look all that cheap compared to the recent slew of Honeycomb tablets; so that can't be it.

There is none. I think anyone buying a Chrome OS device is a tard because Chrome OS and Android will probably eventually merge. And who's more likely to get an update, an Android user or a Chrome OS user? Yeah, you got it in one.

Re:Generalizing..

[yarnosh]

I'm not sure why anyone was ever excited by ChromeOS. It just seems stupid to intentionally cripple an otherwise powerful handheld device by putting an OS on it that can do very little other than run a web browser. It isn't like you can really save much on hardware costs. Web browsers, Chrome included, are notorious resource hogs. Javascript isn't exactly optimized for performance. Can you explain your initial excitement about ChromeOS? Was it just because it is Google and that anything Google does it awesome? I just don't get it...

Re:Generalizing..

[yarnosh]

But people already have offline functionality. Why do they need ChromeOS to give it to them? To use the obligatory car analogy, selling ChromeOS is like selling a car that is designed specifically to run on interstate highways and advertising the fact that it can also run on some local roads as a "feature." Gee, thanks, but my current car can already run on interstate highways and local roads without any restrictions.

Re:Generalizing..

[yarnosh]

So, what good does syncplicity do you in offline mode? What can you do with your Google Docs backups if Google is down and you've positioned yourself such that your only document editor is Google Docs? Sounds like you have to find some other software, download your backups, and edit the "old fashioned way." I'm still pretty skeptical of the overall value of Google Docs as an application (the UI part.). Don't get me wrong, it is impressive that they could get so much functionality into a web browser and make it desktop-like and I love having multiple people working on the same document at the same time, but what I'd like to see are more desktop apps that can hit the Google API, pull from syncplicity if necessary, or just edit a local document. In a similar vein, I like Google mail as a service, but I mostly just use IMAP to aggregate mail from different services into one desktop app. Gmail web interface is just there for when I'm not at my own computer. Desktop apps with online functionality are almost always better than browser based equivalents and HTML5 isn't going to change that a whole lot.

Re:Generalizing..

[drinkypoo]

But people already have offline functionality. Why do they need ChromeOS to give it to them? To use the obligatory car analogy, selling ChromeOS is like selling a car that is designed specifically to run on interstate highways and advertising the fact that it can also run on some local roads as a "feature."

No, it is not. It's more like buying an EV. It does the same stuff a different way. It comes with its own complexities but it also comes with simplification where there is otherwise complication. Don't try to make car analogies, because you are bad at it and they are usually stupid anyway.

Re:Generalizing..

[yarnosh]

ChromeOS does not provide the the same stuff in the different way. It provides less stuff in the same way as other systems. I can run an HTML5 browser an most any modern platform. Why in the world would i want to handicap myself for no good reason? At least an EV has the advantage of, you know, not burning gas. That's different. Running an HTML5 compliant web browser is not different. ChromeOS is exactly the wrong direction to go. Handheld devices are getting cheaper and more powerful. They need an OS that can take advantage of all that extra capability, not lock people into a web browser in the name of "simplicity." It is bad enough that companies like Apple lock us into specific software distribtion channels in the name of simplicity and security, but at least you're not stuck inside a web browser.

Re:Generalizing..

[drinkypoo]

ChromeOS does not provide the the same stuff in the different way. It provides less stuff in the same way as other systems. I can run an HTML5 browser an most any modern platform. Why in the world would i want to handicap myself for no good reason?

Most people are buying an SUV and then using it like a roadster, or what's worse, an econobox. If you get a SUV with good enough suspension or a small enough motor you can do those things (respectively) but not as well as the real thing. For the average computer user who never actually does anything outside their browser that couldn't be done as well inside of it (e.g. they might download from their digital camera or something) they are buying way too much computer.

See, "car" actually covers stuff like pickup trucks or minivans, and I'm talking about people buying an econobox that suits their needs. It's like an EV in that it eliminates whole portions of the system that the user doesn't need anyway in favor of simplicity and efficiency. There's lots of ways in which it's not like an EV, too; car analogies are usually really dumb when you are talking about computers. Further, this is news for nerds. If you need a car analogy, this is the wrong site for you. Don't get me wrong, I like a good car analogy as much as the next guy... they just don't crop up too often around here, mostly because most of the people who want to make them don't know thing fucking one about a car except more or less how to drive it.

With that said, I kind of agree with you; not that Chrome OS is the wrong way to go, but that it goes too far in that direction. I think Android is about the right distance.

Re:Generalizing..

[yarnosh]

Most people are buying an SUV and then using it like a roadster, or what's worse, an econobox. If you get a SUV with good enough suspension or a small enough motor you can do those things (respectively) but not as well as the real thing.

Are you suggesting that Chrome running on a traditional system is not "the real thing?" I would say it is and this is where your car analogy breaks down.

For the average computer user who never actually does anything outside their browser that couldn't be done as well inside of it (e.g. they might download from their digital camera or something) they are buying way too much computer.

This presumes that a ChromeOS system is much less of a computer than one running Chrome on top of a traditional OS. Add a few more megs of RAM and a little more local storage and you have a system that could run Chrome AND most anything else you might want/need (see: Netbook). The difference in hardware is minor. And the hardware just keep getting cheaper and cheaper. It is not like the difference between an economy car and an SUV at all. With ChromeOS, you're essentially taking the same hardware that could just about run a regular OS, and crippling it for no good reason except to save maybe $50.

Re:Generalizing..

[drinkypoo]

With ChromeOS, you're essentially taking the same hardware that could just about run a regular OS, and crippling it for no good reason except to save maybe $50.

Less functionality means less attack surface. It's true enough to be an axiom. A security hole is all the more annoying when it's in a component you don't even use.

Re:Generalizing..

[yarnosh]

A long time Windows user, are you? Sad that it has come to this.

Less functionality also means less functionality. That's a hard sell to all but the most paranoid among us.

Re:Generalizing..

[Waccoon]

Not like it should have been there from the start or anything.

What's this about source code not being released because it's kinda lousy and will be replaced with something better in the future or whatnot?

My data is mine. Company promises and late bandages mean nothing to me.

Re:Generalizing..

[drinkypoo]

If you want to argue about whether Google is doing Evil, that's door 12B, up the hall. This is 12A, where we're talking about whether Chrome OS has benefits.

Re:Generalizing..

[drinkypoo]

A long time Windows user, are you? Sad that it has come to this.

I have used MacOS since System 5 up to 10.5 or so, Windows since 3.0 (and before that DOS since 3.3) up to Windows 7, and Linux since kernel 1.1.47 (Slackware 2.0) up through current Ubuntu Natty... As well as SunOS 4.1.1 on sun3 to about 5.5 on sun4u, IRIX 5.3, blah blah blah blah blah. So sure, I'm a long-time Windows user, but I also have the perspective to know that this is true of every operating system, period, END OF LINE.

Less functionality also means less functionality. That's a hard sell to all but the most paranoid among us.

This is where we return to our car analogy. If you're never going to drive off-road then buying a big 4WD SUV is stupid because you're hauling around a bunch of functionality that you're never going to use and the framework has to be stronger, thus heavier and more expensive, to support it. Even if you will go off-road periodically, if you're never going to haul or tow then you don't need a big motor. By the same token, if you're never going to do anything outside a web browser, then you don't need anything but a browser; and there are numerous common tasks which could easily be done inside the browser with the addition of local file access, which Google has already brought to Chrome OS.

As a resident of the first world I am able to have both a car and a 4x4 truck, just as I have a desktop, a subnotebook, and a tiny netbook, as well as a PDA I don't even use (among others, of course...) For those so advantaged, there is even more utility in such a device, as it can do the sort of light lifting jobs that are usually done with one when the full power of the larger system is unnecessary. Right now my triple-core, dual-monitor desktop is asleep and I am slashdotting from a single-core, LED-backlit subnotebook. I'm probably using twelve watts. It's running Windows 7 and Firefox but it could as easily be running nothing more than is needed for the browser given what I'm doing with it right now.

With that said, I'd still rather have Android, which in the above analogy is something like a crossover SUV or perhaps an older Toyota 4x4 with a 22RE and a modest lift, but with skinny and not gigantic or amazingly nubbed all-terrains. It can go more or less anywhere, do a reasonable amount of work, and do it pretty efficiently while having relatively little to go wrong. Chrome OS is the Honda Civic in this analogy, of course. Linux is a broad variety of pickup trucks. Some of them have car bodies on them. Some people have come up with ways to make really goofy looking motorcycles out of them. And of course, Windows isn't even in this analogy, because shooting fish in barrels is not as fun as it sounds.

Re:Generalizing..

[yarnosh]

This is where we return to our car analogy. If you're never going to drive off-road then buying a big 4WD SUV is stupid because you're hauling around a bunch of functionality that you're never going to use and the framework has to be stronger, thus heavier and more expensive, to support it.

And this is where we get back to my criticism of your analogy. A Chromebook is not significantly lighter hardware-wise than, say, a Netbook. It is not at all like comparing an SUV to an econobox. The correct analogy is taking an regular car (say a Honda Civic) and installing software that removes its extra capabilities to make it behave like a scooter.

By the same token, if you're never going to do anything outside a web browser, then you don't need anything but a browser; and there are numerous common tasks which could easily be done inside the browser with the addition of local file access, which Google has already brought to Chrome OS.

But how do you know you're never going to do anything outside of a web browser? I still say you're better off running Chrome on something like a netbook running Linux. You get lightweight hardware, Chrome, a low attack profile, and the ability to run desktop apps if you later find you want to. ChromeOS adds nothing to the equation. It only takes away. It has no place. Especially as the hardware gets cheaper, smaller, and more powerful. It kinda reminds me of the early/mid 90's when typewriter companies were trying to sell "word processors" which were basically small computers built into typewriters. That didn't last long because soon enough, desktop computers were common and they could do the same and more. It is getting like that with mobile phones now. A few years ago there was still value in having a simple phone that just made calls and could text. You really saved money and hassle that way. But it is getting to the point where the technology is so good that it doesn't make sense NOT to have a GPS, web browser, video recorder, music, apps, etc all in one device in your pocket. I'm a total luddite when it comes to gadgets and even I'm having a hard time resisting the appeal of iPhone/Android.

As a resident of the first world I am able to have both a car and a 4x4 truck, just as I have a desktop, a subnotebook, and a tiny netbook, as well as a PDA I don't even use (among others, of course...) For those so advantaged, there is even more utility in such a device?

So, you already have a netbook. You think a Chromebook would be significantly lighter than that? I don't think so. Probably about the same hardware, except the netbook can do more. And using Linux, your attack profile is pretty low. I don't see how ChomeOS fits in here at all.

Chrome OS is the Honda Civic in this analogy, of course.

You're joking, right? ChromeOS is the small motorcycle in this analogy.

Re:Generalizing..

[drinkypoo]

Chrome OS is the Honda Civic in this analogy, of course.

You're joking, right? ChromeOS is the small motorcycle in this analogy.

That's really not true any more, because you can do so much in the web browser today. Again, most users never do anything you can't do inside a web browser. Those who do will need substantially more machine and more OS, but those who don't can benefit from having so little of each. Which, really, is the whole point of this argument. Which, again, is totally pointless because I actually think that Chrome OS is too light, but to claim that it doesn't offer any advantage is ridiculous.

Re:Generalizing..

[yarnosh]

That's really not true any more, because you can do so much in the web browser today. Again, most users never do anything you can't do inside a web browser.

Can do is not the same as want to do. The market for Windows apps is still huge. Demand isn't going away just because a few companies have done a few neat tricks with HTML and pushed the web beyond what it was designed to do. I think Google Apps are neat, but god help me if that was my ONLY way to edit documents. The interface is still incredibly clunky.

Which, again, is totally pointless because I actually think that Chrome OS is too light, but to claim that it doesn't offer any advantage is ridiculous.

Then name one. You haven't listed a single practical advantage to ChromeOS that isn't satisfied by a Netbook... and then some. Is a Netbook not virtually the same level of hardware that ChromeOS would run on? Why wouldn't I just run Chrome on a Netbook?

Re:Generalizing..

[drinkypoo]

Then name one. You haven't listed a single practical advantage to ChromeOS that isn't satisfied by a Netbook...

You haven't listed a single practical advantage to testicles that isn't satisfied by a Zebra.

Re:Fuck you.

[Anonymous Coward]

Analogies are not invalidated by a difference in scale. You screamed your surrender to the AC above.

Re:Fuck you.

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

Yes they are. That's what godwin's law is predicated on. You anti-Sony nazi.

Re:Fuck you.

[Sir_Lewk]

openness

You don't know the meaning of the term.

Re:Fuck you.

[Sir_Lewk]

I love how fanboism renders you so intellectually blind that you think analogies and ad hominens are interchangeable.

Re:Fuck you.

[Sir_Lewk]

Everybody knows Microsoft is evil. Its also offtopic.

The topic here is that Sony is evil, a fact that everybody here with a sense of rationality recognizes. Microsoft being evil in no way precludes Sony from also being evil.

Re:Fuck you.

[GillyGuthrie]

The Dreamcast was a failure, by most reviews. I find it funny you're idolizing this failed console, while stating current PC gaming sucks. Oh... and speaking of evil... I would have to say Sony is more evil than Microsoft because at least Microsoft never revoked a system function (Other OS) or install rootkits without notice (thank god for Mark Russinovich).

too late

[VincenzoRomano]

I think that Sony has lost a huge amount of psn customers. And also gaming networks did.

Re:too late

[ebs16]

yeah, people are just tossing their $300 consoles into the trash and are then dropping another $300 on an xbox or wii.

Re:too late

[CyberDragon777]

http://www.next-gen.biz/news/psn-outage-begins-to-hit-retail

“In the first week of downtime we did not really see any major change in sales or trades,” says one source, a store manager at a major UK retailer speaking on condition of anonymity. “However from the second week onwards we have seen an increase of over 200 per cent on PS3 consoles being traded in, split almost 50/50 between those trading for cash and those taking a 360 instead.”

Re:too late

[Anonymous Coward]

Correct. SONY has also ensured that the next generation of consoles is going to suffer consumer apprehension as well. They are an untrusted brand name now, and they've earned it.

Re:Fuck you.

[Man On Pink Corner]

What about the fact that Microsoft shipped an OS that could be root kitted by a CD claiming to be red book audio?

I could tolchock you with a pipe wrench and steal your wallet, but the difference between me and Sony is that I won't.

Likewise, with Microsoft and the rootkit business.

Re:Fuck you.

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

Woosh.

Seriously. Locking out homebrewers isn't on the same level as apartheid. Are you fucking serious?

EQ2 Servers are back up

[Nyder]

EQ2 servers came up about 5pm PDT today.

Re:EQ2 Servers are back up

[leathered]

Yep, just got into the game even though I haven't subscribed for over 18 months.. looks like they've activated every account for the next 45 days.

Re:Fuck you.

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

Not in reference to this thread. The root poster said that Sony deserves this. They don't. No one does.

Re:Fuck you.

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft stfu and went and hid in a corner. It's Mr. Jobs and the Apple fanboys that you're angry at now. Get with it!

Re:Fuck you.

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

Is a game like Garou: Mark of the Wolves going to ever come out on PC(PC based arcade hardware not included) first over a console? No.

PC gaming is limited because it's so damn open you cant assume anything and have to build for the broadest possible configurations.

Re:Fuck you.

[GillyGuthrie]

PC gaming is limited because it's so damn open you cant assume anything and have to build for the broadest possible configurations.

Perspective is everything, I guess. I see open configs as the future of computing, and "walled gardens" as nothing more than companies' business models to sell their overpriced products. Of course this is a generalization, and I really would like to go into a DRM discussion at this point... but taht's not necessary.

Re:Why is the whole network linked to credit cards

[gmhowell]

Which of those activities has anyone ever been forced to do?

In western civilization, ~2011, making something attractive is the same as forcing someone.

Re:Why is the whole network linked to credit cards

[Anonymous Coward]

I think he meant who you ACTUALLY are, not your screen name.

Re:Why is the whole network linked to credit cards

[Anonymous Coward]

All of them are if you wish to keep your account. They force you to do all of those things whilst also making entering your credit card number mandatory. Absolutely sickening.

Re:Fuck you.

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't want to waste a troll mod on you.

PSPNo

[Anonymous Coward]

No joy for PSP or PSPGo (who really need it) owners: http://psp2roundup.blogspot.com/2011/05/psn-coming-back-up-no-joy-for-psp.html

Re:Fuck you.

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

I don't think so.

I think there's growth in the PC market but it's not going to keep up with the console market. PCs suck as a dedicated entertainment platform. Driver issues, performance issues, configuration issues, OS crashes, disk crashes, malware, etc. God no.

As far as over priced products, it's up to the consumer to decide what's overpriced and what isn't, and consumers are choosing consoles over PCs.

DRM has been a reality for gaming since the NES. Consumers are used to gaming DRM. Requiring online for single player might be a bridge too far, but I'm pretty sure Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft know that.

Re:Why is the whole network linked to credit cards

[peppepz]

What are you talking about? I have a PSN account and never entered a credit card number anywhere. Furthermore, you can log off PSN anytime you want, and keep playing, if for some reason you don't like trophies.

Re:Fuck you.

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

Err, sony hasn't hit me with a pipe wrench and stolen my wallet.

OTOH, I worked at two OEMs who had been threatened with revocation of Windows licensing deals if they shipped Linux, BeOS or FreeBSD.

What the fuck did they remove this time?

[syousef]

They removed the ability to play PS2 games, and the ability to boot OtherOS.

What this time?
The ability to plug in controllers?
The ability to play sounds?
The ability to do hi-def?

Each update seems to be a slow descent into brickdom.

Fuck!!! It's a Sony!!!

Re:What the fuck did they remove this time?

[Chris Mattern]

They removed the ability to play PS2 games

Er...no, they didn't. If you bought a PS3 able to play PS2 games, it is still able to do so. Sony never took that ability away from any PS3 that had it.

Re:What the fuck did they remove this time?

[batkiwi]

You are incorrect. There were two forms of PS2 backwards compat.

If your console was a REALLY early original, with hardware compatability, you can still play some PS2 games.

If your console was the second gen, with software compatability, they removed it.

Re:What the fuck did they remove this time?

[Chris Mattern]

Citation, please. This change is not listed in Wikipedia's PS3 firmware history, and I have never heard of it before.

Re:Fuck you.

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

You don't seem to understand that the world isn't this black and white, good versus evil struggle where it's either all open or NOTHING.

Do you really want to get the firmware details for your toaster? Or do you really expect a JTAG port so you could hack your microwave's microcontroller?

I mean seriously. Get over yourself. It's a freaking games console.

Re:Fuck you.

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

Two points.

First, I'm not idolizing the console, but the year 1999 was a good year for gaming. PSone had lots of good games, the N64 had lots of good games, and the Dreamcast had lots of good games. No one bitched about DRM and online was a pipe dream.

I still maintain the Sony Rootkit Fiasco is really the Microsoft Why Can Our OS Be Owned This Easily Fiasco(Seriously, had it been someone distributing malware on bootleg CDs you'd get from some shady guy at the swap meet for $2, every one would be screaming bloody murder at Microsoft, not Sony).

I also maintain that removing OtherOS, which not many people use, isn't as evil as say, lobbying the EU to drop open office document formats in favor of Docx/xlsx/pptx/etc. or forcing OEMs to either ship Windows or lose their bulk licensing deals.

Re:Why is the whole network linked to credit cards

[DarkXale]

http://www.soe.com/securityupdate/pressrelease.vm While this was for Sony Online Entertainment; its fairly safe to assume that PSN, which was the target in the attack - was hit harder.

Everything went better than expected. :{

[Anonymous Coward]

My son and i did the login/password change. This went smoothly and my sons friends and trophy info properly restored. He has never been happier to be woken up at 5.30 on a sunday.

How Sony is like Wile E. Coyote in 10 easy steps

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Sony Legal applies litigation (like some kung fu neck lock) to GeoHot
2. GeoHot rolls over, and works with Sony engineers.
3. Sony engineers determine how to detect any modified console running on their network.
4. Sony engineers explain to Sony corporate that we can kick all modified consoles off the network, but a large change would have to be made, keeping the network down for a number of weeks.
5. Sony corporate tells Sony PR to spin together a story about how were hacked, that the network is going down.
6. Sony PR blames Anonymous.
7. Sony PR tells Sony finance that to get the proper spin on the hacker story, we will have to provide fake damage control, aka credit protection.
8. "Sony Releases PS3 3.61 Update Ahead of PSN's Imminent Return"
9. PS3 3.61 update detects modified consoles, banning thousands of consoles from PSN.
10. Sony CEO looks up from ACME drawing board, and smiles (and does that eyebrow thing.)

Beleaguered?

[Megane]

Isn't that the word that was traditionally used to refer to Apple?

Northeast of what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Japan? US? Europe? UK? South America? Africa?

Mod GP up

[TheVelvetFlamebait]

That's good, because he's not a troll. He's posting his opinion, as valid as any I have seen here. His delivery is arguably offensive (which would justify a flamebait mod), but it's far from the most offensive +5 post I've seen here. He should not be modded down.

Remember mods, you can't have a real discussion without an opposing side!

Re:Mod GP up

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

This is a touchy subject for me because I've been on the other side of that, "HELP SOMETHING GOT BROKEN INTO ALL HANDS NOW" call and email chain late at night and on the weekend.

Wishing that on other people just smacks of having no sense of empathy or sense of decency. What the hell.

Re:Why is the whole network linked to credit cards

[Anonymous Coward]

It makes the most sense from a technical perspective also. If someone hacks into your home network, you won't just shut down your 1 file server. You will, hopefully, pull the cable between your cable modem and your internet router and THEN proceed to checking access logs on your router and all of your computers.

Sony did it right unless they were just lying about taking PSN down due to a hacking as opposed to scheduled maintenance that would take much longer than initially expected.*********

3.61 slow, account management a pian

[Anonymous Coward]

They have make sure the system is slower especially all things PSN related.
In addition they now ask your password for every action in Account Management (may be they forgot that PS3 sits in the living room and all your family can watch you entering your parent's password over and over).
The cherry on top is the billing Information that drives an error now.

So I cannot change/review the information that was stolen from me and I'm supposed to be much more assured now that Sony takes my information seriously?

Those guys are a bunch of morons and for myself (aster PS1, PS2, 2 PS3, 4 PSP) it's over. Bye, Bye Sony.

Not Signing Back On

[StormReaver]

I've lost my patience with all the forced firmware upgrades, so I'm just not signing back on to the Playstation Network. All of my PS3 games are single player, which I've been able to play during the outage, so I'm just fine with never signing on to the PSN again. Aside from single player games, the only other use I have for a console nowadays is Netflix.

Essentially, the Playstation Network has nothing of value to me.

Re:Not Signing Back On

[jflo]

Dude... You need to sign in to the playstation network to be able to use Netflix.... just an FYI

Re:Fuck you.

[Chris Mattern]

Do you really want to get the firmware details for your toaster? Or do you really expect a JTAG port so you could hack your microwave's microcontroller?

Actually, yes. I'd love having either of those.

Re:Why is the whole network linked to credit cards

[CrazyDuke]

How should I put this? It's not putting lipstick on a pig that's a problem, although it's frowned upon. Quite frankly, a lot of people want to be deceived so that they don't feel responsible for the choices they make. Take just about any sexual relationship for example.

It's the social manipulation and coercion where it becomes a problem. Shit like turning anyone that reveals the truth into some kind of criminal or social reject. Making the purchase of the item or service a legal or social requirement, or at least making alternatives illegal, even if it will not be utilized. You know, like having soldiers go around and harass people that collect rainwater, because the local privately owned water utility wants to gouge to the fullest. Or, for a more western version, adding taxes to media so that content middle men still get free money even if it's just a garage band selling CD-Rs to local fans or a business that produced it's own ambient music being forced via the legal system to buy a license to play it from a competitor.

Etc...

Being hit with an "Ooh! Shiney!"-"Daddy like!" is not so much of a problem unless there is more going on. See the sig...

Re:Fuck you.

[Sir_Lewk]

Sony deserved it, and morose than just about and other consumer products company currently in business. Even Microsoft would of course deserve similar.

What this really boils down to is u mad, and the rest of us are still laughing our asses off and hope it'll happen again. This entire episode for Sony has been fucking hilarious, and this thread even moreso. I am genuinely pleased as punch, and there isn't shit you can do about it.

Re:Fuck you.

[Sir_Lewk]

You really don't understand analogies, don't you fuckwit? Thanks for driving my point home though, saves me the trouble.

Don't buy Sony shit

[Spy Handler]

and for fuck's sakes, don't give them your credit card # kthnxbai

Re:Fuck you.

[Gojira Shipi-Taro]

Wow.

You're insane.

Re:Fuck you.

[Sir_Lewk]

Wow, you're a lunatic Sony apologist.

But I repeat myself...

Re:Why is the whole network linked to credit cards

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

and it's not as if there's some sort of way you could relate information across various databases, in some sort of relational fashion that would make his complaint somehow completely baseless.

Oh wait...

Re:Fuck you.

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

Yes, yes I do.

Apartheid and segregation were horrible things that my people(Non-whites) went through during the 50's and 60's. I've got photos of my dad protesting at lunch counters in the south so they could fucking eat and ride the bus.

You're talking about privileged geeks being able to play nethack or run Apache so they could turn their PS3 into a webserver.

Fuck you. No, seriously fuck you and the horse you rode in on.

Re:Fuck you.

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

At long last sir, have you no sense of decency?

Seriously. Get some perspective and some empathy. If that was your workplace that got broken into and your customer data, you'd be singing a different tune.

Re:Fuck you.

[Sir_Lewk]

1) I didn't make the analogy, so take your indignation and go fuck yourself with it. I am not responsible for your emotions, and I don't care if you find what others say to be offensive.

2) As previously stated by another, differences in scale do not invalidate analogies. No matter how much it may offend you, the AC's analogy still makes a point which you have thusfar avoided addressing. If something is only free for a select group of people, then it is NOT truly free.

Address his point, or shut the fuck up because nobody cares.

Re:Why is the whole network linked to credit cards

[The Dawn Of Time]

You aren't "forced" to do anything you "wish" to do. Kinda by definition.

Re:Fuck you.

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

You're the one sticking up for him and the really insensitive analogy, you're an asshole.

Differences in scales do invalidate analogies. PS3 devs have to pay big bucks to Sony(like any dev would to Nintendo and Microsoft) for dev kits and support, as well as a license to publish onto their platform.

Having a group of developers who are licensed for development and a group of developers who want to hack at a machine for fun isn't the same as having a Whites Only bathroom.

One's a matter of profession, the other's about immutable properties of man being used to discriminate against each other in horrific ways. It's really insensitive because the scale doesn't match.

Re:Fuck you.

[Sir_Lewk]

It is not a matter of profession, it is a matter of consumer rights. The right to use your property as you see fit. If you have to buy yourself into a right, then your right is being violated. If you buy a car from Ford, you don't need to purchase additional permission from them to use it in Canada instead of Mexico; it is your right to do so and they have no right to prevent it. If you purchase a laptop from lenovo, they have no right to tell you that you must run windows, it is your right as a consumer to run what software you see fit on your property. Etc.

asshole

That is your (quite clearly emotionally comprimised) opinion. I don't give a shit about it.

Re:Why is the whole network linked to credit cards

[gmhowell]

Does free will exist?

Re:Fuck you.

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

What gives you the right to run homebrew on the PS3? What law, constitutional amendment or court case says that if you buy computer hardware, it must support homebrew? If they're violating those rights, why don't you sue them? If Lenovo chose to lock down the bios and the boot loader such that it only booted Windows(like say, Motorola does with certain Android phones), what law would they violate?

I'm not saying that hackers can't or shouldn't break into these systems, but what I am wondering is why do you feel the obligation and the entitlement to have these systems open for you? We live in a world of closed information systems. Would you expect the firmware on your DVD player or your microwave to be open so you can flash it with anything you'd like?

Re:Fuck you.

[Sir_Lewk]

Some of us are mature enough to recognize that we have rights which are not yet necessarily codified into law. That you speak of laws when others speak of rights is very interesting, I wonder what your father would say about that.

This is irrelevant however since under US law consumers are legally permitted to use their computer hardware as they see fit. Its a right that is inherent in the entire legal concept of ownership. In this country we don't need laws specifically allowing actions, we only use laws to specifically ban things.

Now, when a company decides to implement technical measures to restrict my rights as a consumer, and decides to start lobbing lawyers at whoever dares challenge those measures, they are technically in the legal black. When they start retroactively removing advertised features....... Well, let's just say they start to seriously deserve whatever happens to them.

If you own hardware, you have the right to use it. Sometimes the government doesn't back you up, and sometimes corporations or private citizens don't respect you, but you always have that right. If you cannot grok that short and simple concept, then you have no sense whatsoever.

Re:Why is the whole network linked to credit cards

[donaldm]

In fact, PSN shouldn't really care who you are unless you're trying to buy something.

That is so true. It is very easy to setup multiple PSN accounts. The only thing you really need is to have a "valid?" email account and that email account is only useful if you have forgotten your password or people want to send you messages.

sub-accounts

[Anonymous Coward]

and the funny thing is that now you can only create sub-accounts (for kids) with MANDATORY credit-card information. uh-oh, Sony, do you really think that this time we'll give that to you?

Re:Fuck you.

[Renraku]

No no no, consumers are used to unintrusive DRM. Console DRM hasn't usually been a problem for people until they decided they wanted 'backups' then it became a slight issue. It's more than a slight issue if you can't play your games when the authentication servers can't be reached, however.

Re:Fuck you.

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

Except i had no problems playing Bomberman Ultra, Super SF2 Turbo HD or MegaMan 10 while PSN's been down...

Re:Why is the whole network linked to credit cards

[Lost Race]

Management has no idea how things work. So they turn everything off at once during a breach. And turn everything back on in small steps with tons of testing along the way. It is a best practice as old as computing.

We can be pretty confident at this point that whatever Sony does is not any kind of best practice.

Never attribute to competence any Sony behavior which can be adequately explained by utter idiocy and/or malice.

Re:Why is the whole network linked to credit cards

[CrazyDuke]

Fate and free-will are not two separate entities, but rather to aspects of the same mechanism. Fate is something you have, something you are a part of, your will, for the small part it plays in the grand skein of things, helps guide the weave of fate. I guess you could say that I look at it as kind of like the difference between uncertainty of Quantum Physics and the steady predictability of Newtonian Physics.