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Celebrating the Sci-fi Ray Gun

brumgrunt submitted the latest Den of Geek compilation story: this week it's the the science fiction ray guns. From Han Solo's blaster to the Forbidden Planet, there's a lot of nostalgia to get your pew pew out.

158 comments

  1. DL-44 Mauser? by meburke · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think the Han solo weapon looks more like a mauser than a Luger.

    --
    "The mind works quicker than you think!"
    1. Re:DL-44 Mauser? by Nidi62 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yep, it's based on the Mauser C-96. http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg/de/mauser-c-96-e.html

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    2. Re:DL-44 Mauser? by Nidi62 · · Score: 1

      And sorry, to reply to myself, but I think the XZ-38 looks nothing like the Luger. http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg/de/luger-parabellum-e.html

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    3. Re:DL-44 Mauser? by i.r.id10t · · Score: 1

      Yup, C96 broomhandle

      And of course the stargate guns are based on the FN P-90 (full auto) or PS-90 (semi only).

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
    4. Re:DL-44 Mauser? by ThunderBird89 · · Score: 2

      So are many of the guns in Doctor Who. The ones used in The Impossible Planet/Satan Pit are barebones P90s, the ones in The Doctor's Daughter have a small flamethrower-like attachment to generate muzzle flash.
      Why is the P90 so popular with sci-fi writers?

      --
      Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
    5. Re:DL-44 Mauser? by blair1q · · Score: 1

      "Needs more mustard."
      -Mike "Don't call him Mickey" Mauser

    6. Re:DL-44 Mauser? by Nidi62 · · Score: 1

      And to top it all off, the blaster rifle carried by Chewbacca on the Death Star is essentially an MG-42 and the stormtrooper blasters were modified Sterling submachine guns http://world.guns.ru/smg/brit/sterling-l2-l34-e.html , completely down to the folding stock. The Rebel rifles from Episode 4 look to be based off STG-44s. And the rebel blaster pistols look similar to the Nambu type 14 or the Roth 1907.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    7. Re:DL-44 Mauser? by Kielistic · · Score: 2

      I believe I may have seen once in a special feature on a Stargate DVD that they are convenient in how they fire. The casings fall straight down as opposed to off to the side. If they go to the side the other actors can be hit with them and I guess that just doesn't look as good.

    8. Re:DL-44 Mauser? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's not forget the H&K VP70s carried by the Colonial Marines in Aliens. The props, I've heard, were semi only VP70Zs rather than the select-fire VP70Ms.

    9. Re:DL-44 Mauser? by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      Why is the P90 so popular with sci-fi writers?

      Because, it's popular among military and police institutions. If you're gonna pick a small, close-quarters weapon with selectable firing rate ... go with what the real guys are using.

      Before the P-90, you saw an awful lot of Heckler & Koch models like the MP5 -- because, they already look bad-ass and don't need to be tarted up.

      It's hard to "invent" a fictional design better than what you know the tactical guys are using -- and if you have video of how they carry it, you have something to show your actors. I think it may be as simple as "go with something used by the kind of people you're trying to look like".

      If it looks like what the pros are using, it's likely one more step towards suspension of disbelief. Well, that and your props guys can probably bang out a model in a few hours based on pictures from the internet. It's not exactly hard to get photos of a P90.

      A P90 is a weapon that you can pretty much look at, and understand that it's intended for close quarter combat, and not fancy long-distance competition shooting. It's a very business-like beast.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    10. Re:DL-44 Mauser? by arb+phd+slp · · Score: 1

      I believe I may have seen once in a special feature on a Stargate DVD that they are convenient in how they fire. The casings fall straight down as opposed to off to the side. If they go to the side the other actors can be hit with them and I guess that just doesn't look as good.

      That was pretty much it. Without the shell casings flying at their faces, they could stand the actors closer to one another, which is helpful for framing shots for television.

      --
      There's a perfect xkcd for my sig but I'm too lazy to look it up. sudo someone go find it.
    11. Re:DL-44 Mauser? by i.r.id10t · · Score: 1

      Must be the new shows - all the Dr Who I watched (first thru 5th doctor) all the military units were on loan from the Brits so they all toted the FN-FAL/L1A1

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
    12. Re:DL-44 Mauser? by ThunderBird89 · · Score: 1

      New series, seasons 2 and 4. During the old series, I doubt there was even thought of the P90... :)

      --
      Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
    13. Re:DL-44 Mauser? by wagnerrp · · Score: 1

      A P90 is a weapon that you can pretty much look at, and understand that it's intended for close quarter combat, and not fancy long-distance competition shooting. It's a very business-like beast.

      Except it is a bullpulp design, incorporating a 10.4" long barrel, much longer than most comparable submachineguns. That gives it significantly higher muzzle velocity and range than most traditional submachineguns.

    14. Re:DL-44 Mauser? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're not "based on", they are P-90s, and referred to as such in the show.

    15. Re:DL-44 Mauser? by mjwx · · Score: 1

      So are many of the guns in Doctor Who. The ones used in The Impossible Planet/Satan Pit are barebones P90s, the ones in The Doctor's Daughter have a small flamethrower-like attachment to generate muzzle flash.
      Why is the P90 so popular with sci-fi writers?

      Conspiracy answer: FN are paying them to feature the weapons in their shows. This is why the P90 stopped being used in seasons 9 and 10 of SG1, HK made them a better offer so the writers switched to MP7's and G36's.

      Serious answer: because they just look cool and futuristic... and it's cheaper to get an off the shelf gun and paint it rather then build an entirely new prop.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    16. Re:DL-44 Mauser? by x6060 · · Score: 1

      Not a lot of people (Military, Law Enforcement, and otherwise) use the P-90. Its expensive, you dont have much choice in ammo (FN is the only one producing ammo for it) and the round isnt that great. The velocity on the 5.7 round is good and that gives it its penetration characteristics but the actual wounding characteristics (temporary and permanent crush cavities) are terrible. The ATF, USSS, and FBI all bought several of them for consideration and trials. All of them said that if you actually have to shoot someone with the P90 you need to put 5-6 rounds (barring CNS shot of course) in the guy to make sure he stays down, and the wounding characteristics are MUCH worse if you are using subsonic ammo. Of those organizations only the USSS actually bought any and even then they only have it for a very NARROW mission profile. Im not saying its a bad gun, its just not really used very often in the real world, unlike how it is portrayed in TV. It is actually somewhat a failed product. It was designed to be a PDW (A PDW is a weapon thats kind of between a pistol and a rifle. Its for those that arnt in the thick of it, but you dont want to just give them a pistol) for non-combat roles. The only reason everyone seems to know about this gun is from movies, TV, and video games.

    17. Re:DL-44 Mauser? by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      WTF, the role of a police force is to arrest people not put them down and make sure they stay down, It seems like the term 'Law Enforcement' has gone straight to the heads of many US police forces. Just a reminder the police assist the the public in upholding the law and the courts and only the courts 'enforce' the law.

      A gun and a badge does not make a police officer, judge jury and executioner, well, at least it should not. Your comment seems to indicate US police forces seriously need to rethink their 'modus operandi'.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    18. Re:DL-44 Mauser? by Vastad · · Score: 1

      You might find the Seburo article on Wikipedia interesting.

      Seburo is a fictional small-arms designer and manufacturer present in at least three of his future-earth dystopian universes including Ghost in the Shell. It's quite clear he was also inspired by bull-pup designs and the P90 and he's done some really beautiful creative adaptations of these real guns for his manga.

    19. Re:DL-44 Mauser? by x6060 · · Score: 1

      uh... Where did I say that the police go around just shooting people indiscriminately? Judging by what you wrote Im guessing you read very little of what I wrote.

      1. As I said, the weapon was developed for the military but failed. It was then marketed to Law Enforcement. They also passed.

      2. When it was marketed to the Law Enforcement community it was for SWAT and other SRT groups, not for your average officer.

      3. As for being "Judge, Jury, and Executioner" well, if I am ever forced to use lethal force on anyone I would prefer to have the tool best fit to the job. In other words, when some coked out meth dealer starts shooting at the police, I dont expect the police to tickle him with a feather... I expect them to shoot him.

      Your contrived argument is, well, just stupid.

    20. Re:DL-44 Mauser? by slackbheep · · Score: 1

      What is the purpose of a firearm? It's a weapon designed to kill or disable another creature, in this case another human being. The police should be using deadly force only as a last result, but the fact remains that they are armed for more than using intimidation to defuse dangerous situations.

  2. my pew pew is bigger than yours... by Azmodan · · Score: 0

    boom!

  3. BSG chose bullets over lasers by rishistar · · Score: 4, Informative

    Can't find the original article but I recall reading the BSG creators did feasibility studies on bullets or rayguns for the series and came up with laser powered handguns just not being as effective as bullets.

    --
    Professor Karmadillo Songs of Science
    1. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by Hijacked+Public · · Score: 4, Funny

      How would one conduct such feasibility studies? I'm guessing it starts with stocking up on cheetos and jolt, calling a pizza joint, making sure Wikipedia isn't down...

      --
      "Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
    2. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by spire3661 · · Score: 2

      I really liked Mass Effect's approach of basically what amounts to grains of sand as bullets moving at near light speed.

      --
      Good-bye
    3. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by SeximusMaximus · · Score: 1

      I could maybe believe cost effective for power/resource consumption - but it would be rather difficult to gage the effectiveness of something which does not exist yet

    4. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      I doubt those would get much past the end of the barrel, though. Wind resistance is worse than v^2 at those speeds...

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    5. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Basic physics, some hand waving, and thinking about energy transfer efficiency.

      At the end of the day you don't need to be able to build a laser gun to determine if it's going to be that great, you can just make some assumptions, put them into equations, and out comes an answer.

      I don't think most people realize how efficient guns really are at screwing stuff up.

    6. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by ThunderBird89 · · Score: 1

      Hey, I just used a Mass Effect reference (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p77XnhzJz7g) in another discussion, although that pertained to why you need to aim properly at those energies.
      Maybe not grains of sand, but a 20kg steel slug sure packs a punch. I also used the idea in my thesis as an orbital bombardment system: 20 tons of iron dropped from 20,350 km, impacting with 1/500 the energy of a tactical nuke. Sure, a lot less, but clean and a darn sight cheaper in the long run to maintain then a nuke...

      --
      Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
    7. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by durnurd · · Score: 1

      My physics (and Mass Effect) is a bit rusty, but I had assumed that the element zero in the weapon causes the "grain of sand" to have an increased mass, thus an increased momentum (p=mv) , thus making it harder to affect by wind and more damaging than it might otherwise be (at the normal mass of a grain of sand).

      --
      --Edward Dassmesser
    8. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tell that to people that play airsoft, do sandblasting or get hit by sand at the beach. I also think you don't have a good concept of how fast 80% c really is. Somehow I also doubt they would be using carbon or silicon. Iron or other heavier elements would tear apart a tank at those velocities.

    9. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by blair1q · · Score: 1

      Energy transfer efficiency?

      I'm not interested in transferring energy with a laser. I'm interested in slicing an arm off.

    10. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by Mindcontrolled · · Score: 1

      Rather than wind resistance, friction heat would probably eat those up. With unpleasant effects for the shooter. Nice little plasma cloud in the barrel already...

      --
      Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    11. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      Maybe not grains of sand, but a 20kg steel slug sure packs a punch. I also used the idea in my thesis as an orbital bombardment system:

      Ummmm ... where does one write a thesis on orbital bombardment and in what discipline of study?

      Besides, I should think getting your 20 tons of iron into orbit and aiming it so it lands where you intended. Hell ... I should think a rail gun would be more feasible than getting multiple 'rounds' of 20 tons of iron up into space. :-P

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    12. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you Jerry Pournelle?

    13. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      I'm not interested in transferring energy with a laser. I'm interested in slicing an arm off.

      Which is done by a transfer of energy, whether you do it with a laser or with a knife.

    14. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by ThunderBird89 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Not exactly in orbital bombardment, the full title was "Mining the Moon? - Dilemmas of Space Law". One of the topics explored was the use of space for warfare, and inside this, I showed that even the Shuttle can (could, by now...) carry a requisite satellite into orbit: it has a lifting capacity of 22 tons of cargo, a 20 ton projectile (ten meters long, half a meter radius cone) is well inside this limit, even if I'm generous with the support structure.
      Ideally, the satellite needs no maneuvering, nor targeting, the only thing it needs to do is house the round, then drop it when ground control tells it to. It may include a large capacitor bank and a railgun assembly to give it more punch (since it fires only once anyway, rail erosion can be ignored), and maybe some additional processing power to select targets for itself, and maybe maneuvering capacity to change orbits. The strike is the ultimate tactical weapon: fully anonymous (the course cannot be traced back to a launch point, unlike a ballistic missile), devastating, undetectable and indefatigable (the launch generates no observable signature and the round descends too fast to even come up on radar before it's too late to do anything about it. Not quite relativistic, but taking into account today's reaction times for weapons, it's like "By the time you see it coming, it's already too late".), and ultimately targetable (with the proper inclination, it will eventually fly over all points of the planet. At this point, it's just choosing the time of release to hit any nation you want).

      It can also be aimed precisely, though I only did rough mock-ups in Satellite ToolKit, but those indicated that the descent path is roughly like the cot(x) function, and the ground path is predictable at any latitude, so it can theoretically be aimed with pinpoint precision, discounting signal lag.

      --
      Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
    15. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      Ah, "Rods from God"; concept's been around for decades. If I had to take a stab at it, I'd guess Aerospace Engineering or Physics student might write it up as a thesis. 20 tons is for the strategic option; you get something close to a nuclear explosion from it. You wouldn't need or want many of 'em. By way of comparison, the Hubble weighs over 10 tons. You could 20 kg ones to kill tanks fairly effectively.

    16. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by Jonner · · Score: 1

      The basic idea of mass effect fields, as well as how they're used in weapons, is interesting. However, ME2's "heat clips," which supposedly cool the weapon by being discarded are nonsensical. If overheating is truly to problem to solve, you could just wait, but the heat clips are actually just a stand-in for universal ammunition.

    17. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're probably right. I really don't understand how they did that study, I mean really, one hundred years or so ago flight was a lunatic's dream, later atomic bombs and nuclear powerplants became a reality, and not so long ago, pocket supercomputers affordable by anyone. You can't know how the future will look like ten years from now, let alone hundreds. Pass the cheetos please ...

    18. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by blair1q · · Score: 1

      Bullets transfer energy in a very turbulent manner.

      Lasers do it in a very precise manner.

      The same energy from a laser and a bullet will do very different things. A bullet will hit the surface and by the time the energy has reached the part that you want divided in two the effect is much lower. The energy has spread througout the tissue and dissipated, causing pointless bruising in most of it. Many bullets don't reach the other side or break bone along the way. A laser will complete the job by focussing on a very narrow piece of the target, and will go through every time, if properly pulsed. Much less energy from a laser will do things a bullet could never do.

      (Assume 9-mm bullet with a typical powder load, ~500 J energy. Say it stops within 100 ms. That's 5000 W. What do you think a 5-kW pulsed laser can do in that same 100 ms? I say there's at least one arm heading for the floor.)

      To a bullet flesh and bone make an impervious material. To a laser at the right frequency flesh is butter.

      Of course, a laser can be foiled by, well, foil, so there's still value in bullets.

    19. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by danbert8 · · Score: 1

      It was the dumbest system ever. I hated it, and hope it gets returned or at least improved in ME3. I basically saw it as a way to prevent me from being the sniper I was in ME1. With only 10 or so shots available on the sniper rifle, I inevitably had to run out of my cover with a practically useless pistol to find more ammo. The timed cooldown of the weapons in the original game made more sense with the physics and made for much more strategic battles as accuracy wasn't as important as your position. I also missed the varied upgrades you could do to weapons in ME1, though I do agree it was probably overly complicated, but I liked it as I could tailor my weapons based on each mission.

      Also, I liked shooting randomly in ME1 to fill the long walks on alien worlds... No more in ME2, I had to conserve every shot.

      --
      Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
    20. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by Jonner · · Score: 1

      It was the dumbest system ever. I hated it, and hope it gets returned or at least improved in ME3. I basically saw it as a way to prevent me from being the sniper I was in ME1. With only 10 or so shots available on the sniper rifle, I inevitably had to run out of my cover with a practically useless pistol to find more ammo. The timed cooldown of the weapons in the original game made more sense with the physics and made for much more strategic battles as accuracy wasn't as important as your position. I also missed the varied upgrades you could do to weapons in ME1, though I do agree it was probably overly complicated, but I liked it as I could tailor my weapons based on each mission.

      Also, I liked shooting randomly in ME1 to fill the long walks on alien worlds... No more in ME2, I had to conserve every shot.

      Yeah, I'd much prefer to snipe everything. I've only played ME2, but now I'll have to get ME1.

    21. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by Mindcontrolled · · Score: 1

      That kinda depends how long that pulse of your 5 kW pulsed laser is, I'd wager. That and it's dead time.

      --
      Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    22. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by Mindcontrolled · · Score: 1

      Can't be arsed to do the math right now, but 20 kg for a tank killer seems like pretty much overkill at first glance. Kinda depends how much mass you ablate on the way down, of course. 20 kg arriving at the tank - just from intuition, I guess that vaporizing the tank and a good part of its surroundings would indeed count as "fairly effective". Feel free to correct me if you got the correct numbers, just doing seat of the pants estimates here.

      --
      Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    23. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by blair1q · · Score: 2

      500 J from a laser with picosecond pulses is a lot of juice. It's like turning that umbering, tumbling, energy-dispersing clod of bullet into a thin, light, fast-moving knife. Ooh! like the sword in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, if it was 40 meters long and all the mass was in a few inches of blade at the far end.

      Arms, all over the place.

    24. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The nice thing about a laser is it's a constant beam. One quick sweep across your field of view and you've just cut everybody and everything in half. They are also silent and invisible.

    25. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ummmm ... where does one write a thesis on orbital bombardment and in what discipline of study?

      What do you think graduate students have to write about at the Engineering Villians Institute of London (EVIL) in order to get their PhD?

    26. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by QuantumPion · · Score: 2

      Ideally, the satellite needs no maneuvering, nor targeting, the only thing it needs to do is house the round, then drop it when ground control tells it to.

      Someone needs a lesson in Newtonian physics. Being in orbit is not like Wylie E. Coyote where you can just magically stop where you are and fall straight down. You have to precisely slow down using rockets, just enough so that your orbit shifts you into the atmosphere so that the drag can decelerate you down the rest of the way right where you want to end up.

    27. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 1

      Can't find the original article but I recall reading the BSG creators did feasibility studies on bullets or rayguns for the series and came up with laser powered handguns just not being as effective as bullets.

      If by "effective" they mean for purposes of drama and entertainment, I can understand that. If, on the other hand, they mean "effective weapons" . . . this is Sci Fi -- it's as effective as you want it to be!

      Seriously. What's a study like that look like? "Ok guys, what's better: a gun or some as yet un-invented personal weapon employing some known or unknown technology?"

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    28. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by Teknikal69 · · Score: 1
      I can't remember what novel it was exactly but I've definitely read a sci-fi book series where they actually accelerate a ship up close to light speed and then release grains of sand towards a planet and each single grain gave a nuke type effect when hitting.

      Was something along the lines of the speed increasing the mass of the grains and giving them immense energy, I thought it was a pretty clever idea and would definitely be a killer weapon if it was ever possible. It's annoying me I can't remember the book

    29. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by ThunderBird89 · · Score: 1

      Except if you give it's velocity a downward component in addition to its tangential component (let's call that one lateral). In that case, it goes straight into the atmosphere at which point the lateral component is dissipated or brought under control via friction/steering. Like I said at the end, I did some rough simulations in STK (before the trial expired), and found it feasible...

      --
      Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
    30. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by Labcoat+Samurai · · Score: 1

      It was the dumbest system ever.

      I feel like it improves the pacing of combat. Spending half your time hiding and waiting for weapons to cooldown is kind of boring. On the other hand, it makes no sense in universe for guns to work this way. I'd like to see a compromise with thermal clips *and* weapon cooldowns. So essentially, you'll get so many free thermal refreshes in a mission (and maybe thermal clips themselves are rarer). That would encourage you to use them strategically.... but otherwise, your weapons will cool down on their own in time.

    31. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      Of course the real kicker was that the universal ammo clips weren't universal. You could fire 200 SMG shots and 10 sniper shots but not 400 SMG shots or 20 sniper shots. Clips were universal until you picked them up, at which point they magically became weapon-specific. It was really a crossbreeed between nonsensical form a tactical point of view (ME2's weapons were greatly inferior to ME1's due to the ammo limitation) and nonsensical from a plausibility point of view (why do the clips suddenly become weapon-specific when picked up?).

      I found that unlimited ammunition mods made ME2 much more enjoyable. Of course it still lacked a lot of what made ME1 fun but at least the horrible gunplay got better. There are some games that make ammunition scarcity work but those are usually survival horror games - and Mass Effect is very definitely not one of those.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    32. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by ThunderBird89 · · Score: 1

      Let me type up the maths for a 20t mass, I've got my notes right here:
      v = sqrt(2 x 20,350,000m x 9.81m/s^2) = ~1.998x10^4m/s (assuming no drag and no pre-acceleration, just a simple drop)
      E = (20,000kg x (1.998x10^4m/s)^2)/2 = ~3.993x10^12J = ~953.4t TNT equivalent.
      20kg would get you about a ton of TNT equivalent. "Fairly Effective" indeed...

      Sure, projectile profile means this is going to go deep rather than wide, and the transit time is on the order of tens of minutes, but even so, it's not so much a tank-buster but a bunker-buster.

      --
      Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
    33. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by ThunderBird89 · · Score: 1

      The title was "Dilemmas of Space Law", I'm an international relations student. :)
      And yes, Rods from God is mentioned explicitly as the title of this chapter "Rods from God and Crowbars - Striking from Orbit" (translated from Hungarian). The name I gave to this particular system was Crowbar, admittedly based on the webcomic UserFriendly, since that's where I saw it called such, and took a liking to the name. In the thesis, I explain the name as an analogue for the method: "[...]on a smaller scale, it's the equivalent of dropping a crowbar on the target's head from a tall tower."

      --
      Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
    34. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by Chrontius · · Score: 2

      Your 5kW pulse laser will cause severe looking, but superficial injuries. Remember, incapacitation requires destroying the nervous system, or disconnecting it from the body - either directly, or indirectly by depriving it of the blood it requires. Also, remember that bullets and kinetic energy destroys tissue efficiently, and lasers have to boil water, one of the liquids most resistant to boiling in order to create steam explosions to damage tissue. If you're trying to cut things, you need a big beast of a capacitor bank, in order to instantly and deeply penetrate a target and sustain that effect for some significant fraction of a second. Gunpowder stores energy in a much denser form than capacitors, and practical firearms can extract up to 25% of the chemical energy in that powder. Lasers have theoretical efficiencies of up to 65-80% at present, but most modern lasers are closer to 20%. The lack of fragile optics, the reliable, storable energy source, and other similar factors mean firearms are king... for now. Once semiconductor lasers can be mass produced around 20%, diamond optics can be lab-grown, and battery technology catches up, that might change. The most appropriate battery right now is the lithium-spinel ion technology, 42 kilojoules in a pistol-sized battery is pretty practical, assuming two 18650 cells. A laser rifle could carry a rather larger pack, of rather larger cells. Using prismatic IMR cells, a 1 megajoule battery the size of a conventional rifle magazine should be achievable. At that point, proper death rays should be quite possible, even practical.

    35. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      You mentioned a joint, but forgot to insert it properly into your theory.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    36. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      Airsoft is practically stationary compared to .8c.

      I suspect that a .8c bullet would simply dump 2 GJ into the air as soon as it exits the barrel (we're presuming a magic gun that the projectile actually makes it out of...). The projectile wouldn't be stopped, so much as nigh-instantly vaporized. Along with your face. And you might get your target, too, if the room is smaller than an airplane hangar...

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    37. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by lennier · · Score: 1

      Ummmm ... where does one write a thesis on orbital bombardment and in what discipline of study?

      Somewhere in Colorado Springs, perhaps?

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
    38. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by lennier · · Score: 1

      Not exactly in orbital bombardment, the full title was "Mining the Moon? - Dilemmas of Space Law". One of the topics explored was the use of space for warfare

      You've already checked out Atomic Rockets and Rocketpunk Manifesto, I presume?

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
    39. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by lennier · · Score: 1

      20 tons is for the strategic option; you get something close to a nuclear explosion from it. You wouldn't need or want many of 'em. By way of comparison, the Hubble weighs over 10 tons.

      Hubble, eh?

      Just out of curiosity, how much propellant is left in the Hubble fuel tanks and how well firewalled are its attitude control uplink stations? Also, do we know if anyone in Anonymous works at NASA and has access to Stuxnet source code?

      Hmm? Oh, no reason.

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
    40. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by lennier · · Score: 1

      I'm an international relations student. :) And yes, Rods from God is mentioned explicitly as the title of this chapter "Rods from God and Crowbars - Striking from Orbit"

      Ah Gordon, I see you've chhhanged your majjjjjor. Are you certain this decision will have no unforessssseen consssssequencessss?

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
    41. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by ErroneousBee · · Score: 1

      Probably shaped to supercavitate.

      --
      **TODO** Steal someone elses sig.
    42. Re:BSG chose bullets over lasers by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I have absolutely no idea whether you're just making this stuff up, but I want your job anyway.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  4. Wrong genre, foolio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Raygun may have been a softy for sci-fi, but he only did westerns.

  5. The Ray-Gun: A Love Story by Daetrin · · Score: 4, Informative

    If we're going to be talking about the celebration of ray guns, someone should really mention James Alan Gardner's Hugo and Nebula nominated short story, "The Ray-Gun: A Love Story" which can be read online here. Since TFA didn't do it, i guess that someone has to be me.

    --
    This Space Intentionally Left Blank
  6. Phasers by feidaykin · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I love Star Trek, a lot. I'm sure I fit every possible stereotype of a Trek nerd, including ones that are contradictory. But there was one thing that always, always bugged me about Star Trek, even as a kid.

    Phasers are essentially inferior to contemporary firearms. For starters, they are actually slower than bullets. You cannot dodge a bullet (in real life, anyway). But there are several examples of the Enterprise crew dodging phaser/disrupter blasts in TNG. Granted, it's possible to retcon this by saying it's some sort of charged plasma that doesn't travel at the speed of light blah blah. But my point is not that it doesn't travel at light speed (which is obvious) but that it's actually SLOWER than a bullet. Which raises the question, why on Earth (or in the Alpha Quadrant, for that matter) would they use essentially inferior technology? If our present day firearms are superior to phasers, why the switch? It defies all logic.

    And don't even get me started on the horrible scene in Star Trek: First Contact where the Borg have adapted to Picard's phaser so he lures them into the holodeck and mows them down with a tommy gun. So, 1940s machine gun > 24th century phaser. And they don't keep a stash of machine guns in a weapon's locker? Hell, they can't even replicate a few dozen? Sigh.

    Really, it's easier to suspend disbelief about Warp Drive even though that violates everything we know about relativity and modern physics than it is to accept the concept of the phaser replacing the superior firepower we already have in this century.

    Anyway, angry Trek nerd rant mode off. Sorry about that.

    --

    "To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit." -Stephen Hawking

    1. Re:Phasers by ThunderBird89 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      IANASTN, but here's my angle: phasers are something that the Borg encountered often enough to warrant an adaptation, but slugthrowers are something so ancient the Borg don't even remember them, therefore saw no reason to ever adapt to it. If Picard was slower to pick them off, they might have, eventually.
      Also, I recall that the phasers are not full-time weapons, but multipurpose tools that can cut, weld, heat, stun, kill, etc. Typical jack-of-all-trades, acceptable in all, great in none. Our guns, however, have one purpose: to kill. And being the single-minded things they are, they perform this task admirably.

      --
      Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
    2. Re:Phasers by MaxBooger · · Score: 1
      To slightly paraphrase J. Michael Straczynski of Babylon 5 fame:

      Phasers fire at the speed of plot.

    3. Re:Phasers by durnurd · · Score: 1

      Well, there are things that make phasers superior, such as different settings (stun, kill, vaporize) much more ammo (not sure if you'd call it limitless, but I've never seen them need to recharge one), and presumably lighter and more compact than carrying guns with real bullets around. Although I tend to agree that speed is a major component of most weapons, and they've certainly done something wrong by making them so much slower.

      --
      --Edward Dassmesser
    4. Re:Phasers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Phasers work without gravity or atmosphere. They also don't punch holes in your ship when you just want to kill a person.

    5. Re:Phasers by blair1q · · Score: 1

      Erm, but you can set a phaser to a wide dispersion and stun everyone on a city block. Or you can set it to vaporize your opponent with a single hit. And it's the size of a garage-door opener (I was going to say Pager, but we're far enough into the future that there are people who have no idea what that is reading these fori).

      FTW.

    6. Re:Phasers by Mindcontrolled · · Score: 1

      Since when do you need gravity for projectile weapons to work? Atmosphere? Probably not, too, if your propellant is chosen well.

      --
      Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    7. Re:Phasers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The recent MythBusters episode on Hollywood sound effects had this important point: TV and films are about entertainment and drama, not scientific accuracy. It's the same reason why the heroes in Westerns and other genres were always able to dodge bullets (or blaster bolts in Star Wars), or save the day using their wounded arm or leg instead of going into shock like most humans would. It's why you see the bad guy go flying 20 feet when hit by a gunshot, why you see big plumes of flame and explosions when a car is struck by a bullet, and why Theoden was still able to talk to Eowyn with a 900-lb. horse crushing his body*.

      (Another reason why the tommy-gun scene is less than convincing at second glance is: surely the Borg have encountered projectile weapons in their conquest of the galaxy?) But to play devil's advocate, in the case of the phaser, Roddenberry wanted an interstellar navy that didn't shoot to kill unless it had no choice. An energy weapon that can be tuned from "stun" to "vaporize explosively" was just part of his vision.

      On the one hand, learning that the folks behind the camera are tricking the audience at every turn can be a let-down. On the other, the sheer arsenal of tricks they do use is probably much more fascinating than the flashy stuff that movie heroes seem to do on a daily basis.

      * I know, that scene is not strictly canon.

    8. Re:Phasers by kehren77 · · Score: 1

      IANASTN, but here's my angle: phasers are something that the Borg encountered often enough to warrant an adaptation, but slugthrowers are something so ancient the Borg don't even remember them, therefore saw no reason to ever adapt to it. If Picard was slower to pick them off, they might have, eventually.
      Also, I recall that the phasers are not full-time weapons, but multipurpose tools that can cut, weld, heat, stun, kill, etc. Typical jack-of-all-trades, acceptable in all, great in none. Our guns, however, have one purpose: to kill. And being the single-minded things they are, they perform this task admirably.

      Two excellent points. I'd add that perhaps the Borg Shields aren't designed for slower, physical projectiles. Similar to how Goa'uld personal shields block bullets and energy weapons but not knives and arrows. Similarly the personal shields in Dune can block a blast or fast knife strike, but not a slower moving one.

      I'd also add to your list of other phaser uses that the phaser has a stun setting. To my knowledge, guns do not.

    9. Re:Phasers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      phasers are something that the Borg encountered often enough to warrant an adaptation, but slugthrowers are something so ancient the Borg don't even remember them, therefore saw no reason to ever adapt to it.

      That explanation might hold up for another race, but there would be no reason why the Borg wouldn't remember something. They're networked cyborgs ferchrissake!

    10. Re:Phasers by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 2

      Phasers are essentially inferior to contemporary firearms.

      Depends on what you're trying to do with them.

      Phasers could be "set" to stun or kill an opponent, something that normal firearms cannot do. Phasers also seemed to be able to shoot far more rounds than contemporary firearms. It was rare that you heard about a phaser being "drained" in a battle--I'm not that knowledgeable about TNG, but in "The Omega Glory," Captain Tracy claims to have killed "thousands" with only four phasers. Furthermore, phaser power-packs could be rigged to explode like a grenade. Phasers could also be used to drill holes, warm rocks, etc.

      While arguably less effective than a Tommy Gun at killing, it was certainly a better all-around tool for explorers than a Tommy Gun.

      So, 1940s machine gun > 24th century phaser.

      Perhaps the Borg had never dealt with a Tommy Gun before. Remember that phasers were effective until the Borg managed to adjust their shielding. I'm sure that a Tommy Gun wouldn't work a second time, just like a phaser tended to be ineffective as the Borg learned to deal with it.

    11. Re:Phasers by ThunderBird89 · · Score: 1

      To be honest, guns DO have "stun settings", if they're loaded with stun rounds: beanbag, hard wax, rubber, and maybe some others. It's just that these leave a ruddy big bruise, while phasers just drop you like a sack.

      --
      Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
    12. Re:Phasers by perpenso · · Score: 1

      Perhaps I missed the episode but I don't really recall people dodging phaser beams. People may have ducked for cover and moved out of the aim point prior to the phaser firing but once the beam was "in flight" there was no ducking, much as with a bullet. The key to ducking is the time lag between the decision that the weapon is on target and the trigger finger moving far enough to fire the weapon.

    13. Re:Phasers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      much more ammo (not sure if you'd call it limitless, but I've never seen them need to recharge one)

      Man, I really hate to admit that I know this, but here goes. There was an episode of the original Star Trek, I think it's the one where Kirk gets split into two parts (an evil part and a nice part). Because the transporter is "broken," they leave the away team down on a planet that gets really cold at night. Chekov is using a phaser to heat up rocks to keep them warm, and he says something about not being able to do it much longer before the battery dies.

    14. Re:Phasers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TNG generally had beam phasers. But DS9 and later tended to use blasters that shot slower balls of whatever.

      I never understood why phasers didn't have auto-targetting. An automated turret, or even hand weapon would have been nearly impossible to avoid as long as the charge-up to shoot was reasonably small.

    15. Re:Phasers by ThunderBird89 · · Score: 1

      By the time they were what they were, they evolved way past slugthrowers. After that, they didn't target races too primitive, so they never encountered them again, until the Day of the Holodeck.

      --
      Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
    16. Re:Phasers by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      A. You CAN dodge a bullet at long enough ranges.
      B. You can dodge light-speed fire in a universe where information can travel faster then light (subspace comms)
      C. IM really confused as to what frame of reference you are using to determine that phaser fire is slower then a bullet.

      --
      Good-bye
    17. Re:Phasers by pz · · Score: 1

      One advantage is that phasers carry a whole lot more shots than a pistol, and you don't have to stock ammunition, just maintain a recharge station. Another is that they have selectable power.

      Now where is the masking tape? My glasses have broken again ... snort-heh-snort-heh.

      --

      Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
    18. Re:Phasers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How does one adapt to bullets? Poke yourself full of holes?

    19. Re:Phasers by nevermore94 · · Score: 1

      IAASTN, many people have already addressed the multiusefulness of a phaser from stun to burn to vaporize, but I want to specifically address the Tommy Gun scene. First off, it made for good TV. But, technically, I think either the Borg's shields only blocked energy based attacks and not physical attacks such as from a bullet, or, my favorite theory, it wasn't a real Tommy Gun at all. They were on a HoloDeck with the "safety protocols disengaged". He was not holding an actual gun firing real bullets, he was holding a holographically generated gun firing holographic bullets given substance by the forcefield generators in the holodeck. Small high-power bullet-shaped force fields generated by a starship traveling at high velocity capable of punching through a Borg's little personal force field generator like a hot knife through butter.

      --
      Nevermore.
    20. Re:Phasers by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      But bullets have been dodged in TV shows and movies, so clearly TV show land has different rules in the first place.

      And why wouldn't a tommy gun kill a couple of Borg, if you kept trying they'd adapt and their shields would deflect them (or whatever). Normal phasers kill the first couple of Borgs just by changing the frequency...

      Phasers have at least three benefits:

      1. No need to carry ammunition.
      2. No need to adjust your shooting for varying levels of gravity that someone exploring space and planets and what not would encounter. THough they do seem to be close quarter weapons rather than sniper rifles so that probably isn't such an issue.
      3. Adjustable from tickle to stun to kill to disintegrate.

      But yes, it's a TV show that is aiming for entertainment rather than realism and the phasers they present are rather silly.

    21. Re:Phasers by Labcoat+Samurai · · Score: 1

      C. IM really confused as to what frame of reference you are using to determine that phaser fire is slower then a bullet.

      As I recall, it's not uncommon to be able to actually track the progress of the beam with the naked eye even without a high speed camera. This is true of a bullet at long range (being able to track tracer rounds, for example), but I remember doing this with phasers sometimes when guys were shooting at each other in the same room.

    22. Re:Phasers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While arguably less effective than a Tommy Gun at killing, it was certainly a better all-around tool for explorers than a Tommy Gun.

      Depending on the definition of 'less effective'. TNG technical manual mentions high level setting (12-16) on Types II and III phasers can cause targeted objects to explode without destroying the source weapon, which had been used a few times in the TNG shows. Combining it with wide angle settings, it could be made to kill faster than Tommy Gun. BTW the manual was written before the TNG spin-off series and movies, which have newer phaser rifles/cannons for ground troopers.

    23. Re:Phasers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't recall what show it was (might have been a webcomic) but an interesting point regarding bullet vs. ray guns in space was simple:

      A stray bullet can make a hole in a bulkhead.

      So, ship security, and anyone not suicidal would use ray guns of some kind, strong enough to injure/kill a human, but designed not to vent atmosphere/destroy the ship if you miss.

      After a while you'd develop a good enough ray gun where the advantage of bullets wouldn't be a big deal, specially if ou don't need to reload, and can use them for other tasks.

    24. Re:Phasers by Kittenman · · Score: 1

      And it's the size of a garage-door opener (I was going to say Pager, but we're far enough into the future that there are people who have no idea what that is reading these fori).

      Hey, I used to carry a pager, you insensitive clod!

      --
      "The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes" - Winston Churchill
    25. Re:Phasers by Unkyjar · · Score: 1

      Gun stun settings don't work too well against PCP.

    26. Re:Phasers by Unkyjar · · Score: 1

      All depends on where you sighted in your weapon.

    27. Re:Phasers by Unkyjar · · Score: 1

      Key words there: "Used to"

    28. Re:Phasers by Unkyjar · · Score: 1

      That's because the cable company automatically puts graphics over the phaser beam so that you can see it. Much like the blue dot they use for Hockey games.

    29. Re:Phasers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On Babylon 5, it's explained that they use PPGs instead of real guns because larger magazines and most importantly PPGs don't penetrate spaceship hulls.

    30. Re:Phasers by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      It also takes more time/effort to switch to 'stun' with a shotgun.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    31. Re:Phasers by camperdave · · Score: 2

      Perhaps I missed the episode but I don't really recall people dodging phaser beams. People may have ducked for cover and moved out of the aim point prior to the phaser firing but once the beam was "in flight" there was no ducking, much as with a bullet. The key to ducking is the time lag between the decision that the weapon is on target and the trigger finger moving far enough to fire the weapon.

      Well there is a scene in the ST:TOS episode Wink of an Eye where Deela, Queen of the Scalosians, dodges a phaser beam. To be fair, though, she was in an "accelerated" time frame.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    32. Re:Phasers by danhaas · · Score: 1

      Why would they use inferior technology? Until the Wachowskis created the bullet time, phasers looked cooler on video.

      It is pretty much the same reason why every children cartoon hero has a glaring uniform.

    33. Re:Phasers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Halodeck is not a replicator, from what I understand. The halodeck uses halgrams and force fields to simulate the feel and look of actual objects. So when the captian fired "bullets" at borg it was actually force feilds traveling at the speed of a bullet with a shape like a bullet. The borg had not adapted to small halodeck type force fields.

    34. Re:Phasers by Chrontius · · Score: 1

      And some of these require you to skip them off the ground between you and your target, as they carry enough energy to kill if aimed directly at what you're trying to stop. The closest thing to phaser stun we have now are Taser shotgun projectiles, which are supposed to be pretty sack-of-potatoes.

    35. Re:Phasers by Chrontius · · Score: 1

      In lack of atmosphere, your gun oil will boil off - or Boyle's off, courtesy of Boyle's Law.

      A lot of guns - most modern ones, really - can be fired without their lubricant, and the AA-12 was designed for such thick lubricant that the solid carbon fouling is an ideal grease. It'll also turn a good weapon into a disposable one. On the other hand, the air sealed in a shell casing will provide all the oxygen needed for the powder to burn.

    36. Re:Phasers by mjwx · · Score: 1

      IANASTN, but here's my angle: phasers are something that the Borg encountered often enough to warrant an adaptation, but slugthrowers are something so ancient the Borg don't even remember them, therefore saw no reason to ever adapt to it.

      IANATrekie but re-watching TNG (I was 8 when it was first screened here) but the Borg need to be shot with a weapon before they can adapt to it, which is why in the TNG series they can normally kill one or two drones before they adapt. The same would be true of traditional projectile fireams one would think.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    37. Re:Phasers by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Phasers are essentially inferior to contemporary firearms

      Apart from not requiring ammunition, ease of handling, multiple energy settings and so forth, not to mention the possibility of a projectile weapon breaching the hull.

      they are actually slower than bullets.

      This probably had more to do with the special effects at the time and has just stuck.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    38. Re:Phasers by lennier · · Score: 1

      but slugthrowers are something so ancient the Borg don't even remember them, therefore saw no reason to ever adapt to it.

      Yeah, except that what Picard actually fired was a holographic simulation of a Tommy gun. Which was a bit like suprising a burglar in your house by firing up your 3D HD TV and waving your Halo: Reach controller at him and then have the guy actually die because the pixels were so sharp.

      Course we all know the Holodeck is a lethal deathtrap if you turn off the safeties (which happens every couple of weeks), but you'd think if it's that useful as a weapon, Starfleet would have decided to either mount it on the outside, or restrict its use as a recreational device to expendable ensigns.

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
    39. Re:Phasers by SheeEttin · · Score: 2

      I recall one episode of the original series, in which the crew ends up on one of those "fantasy worlds" (you can imagine it, you get it), and Sulu ends up with some old firearms. Others' reactions are basically "I haven't seen one of those since they banned such-and-such weapons so-and-so years ago!".

      So basically: projectile weapons were banned, I guess. Because they're much more deadly than phasers (which are designed to incapacitate).

    40. Re:Phasers by davew666 · · Score: 1

      unlimited ammo, no jamming, perfect accuracy, adjustable power

      still, you raise an interesting point

    41. Re:Phasers by ThunderBird89 · · Score: 1

      Actually, the inverse is stated in Schlock Mercenary: Schlock is forbidden from using his trademark plasma cannon on ships because with his restraint, he'd blow a three-foot hole in half the bulkheads in 30 seconds. Therefore, the Thugs (and military troops) use bullets that just ricochet off the bulkhead, and don't cause a breach. Except for breaching their medic's skull, but that's a different story...

      --
      Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
    42. Re:Phasers by Chrontius · · Score: 1

      Schlock's plasgun is an antitank weapon, essentially firing a collimated nuclear detonation. Hollowpoint bullets will continue to work as well in the future against unarmored targets as they do in the present.

  7. Han Shot first! by digitaldc · · Score: 2

    The most important fact in this whole article of fiction.

    --
    He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
  8. Laser Guns fired like bullet guns. by jellomizer · · Score: 1

    The part of the movies and Star Trek I hated when you had the laser/phaser type of gun which fires a beam for a few seconds. Is that they actually miss, Because they stand there fire in one direction opps they missed and re-aim and fire again. As anyone who used a laser pointer knows If you miss you can correct rather quickly and there the bad guy is fried. Perhaps with some collateral damage, but not much more then a bunch of random laster holes in you hull.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    1. Re:Laser Guns fired like bullet guns. by blair1q · · Score: 1

      Phaser != Laser. Also != Light Saber. Also doesn't really fit into the "Pew! Pew! Pew!" class of weapons. Photon torpedoes, on the other hand, are the king of "Pew! Pew! Pew!"

    2. Re:Laser Guns fired like bullet guns. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The part of the movies and Star Trek I hated when you had the laser/phaser type of gun which fires a beam for a few seconds. Is that they actually miss, Because they stand there fire in one direction opps they missed and re-aim and fire again. As anyone who used a laser pointer knows If you miss you can correct rather quickly and there the bad guy is fried. Perhaps with some collateral damage, but not much more then a bunch of random laster holes in you hull.

      Then you probably loved Babylon 5 just because of that?

      The beam energy weapons of the more advanced races' spaceships properly moved, slicing and dicing in its path.

  9. Ronald Raygun? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No comment...

  10. The real deal - MTHEL by Animats · · Score: 1

    The real deal: MTHEL, from Northrop Grumman.

    That's 10 year old technology, and it's a chemical laser. Back then it took three semitrailers for all the support equipment. Since then, electrically-powered lasers are catching up. The Navy Laser Weapons System is not as powerful, but it's a much smaller package, only needs electrical power. and can shoot down small UAVs.

    1. Re:The real deal - MTHEL by ShavedOrangutan · · Score: 1

      Navy Laser Weapons System is not as powerful, but it's a much smaller package, only needs electrical power. and can shoot down small UAVs.

      And make popcorn?

      --
      Godaddy is a scam and a ripoff.
    2. Re:The real deal - MTHEL by maroberts · · Score: 1

      I suppose if you fired a canister of popcorn up, it could target and cook it to perfection by the time it came down.

      --

      Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
      Karma: Chameleon

    3. Re:The real deal - MTHEL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only if you hire Kent to make the optics!

  11. Pew? Pew? by Lumpy · · Score: 1

    I though that is how you celebrate the SciFi ray gun.... Run around with a sharpie in hand yelling PEW PEW PEW at your co-workers....

    BTW: accounting department has NO sense of humor.... Throwing a dry erase board eraser into their office and yelling grenade was frowned upon... at least the Marketing department acted like it was real and looked like they panicked and ran from it. They are such good sports!

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:Pew? Pew? by blair1q · · Score: 1

      Watch out for Shipping & Receiving. They throw back shit like box-sealers, and those hurt.

  12. Re:Phasers: How about longbows? by BranMan · · Score: 1
    There is actually a historical analogy to this: the American Revolutionary War. The weapons at the time were cannon and musket. Muskets were iron, hard to make, heavy to carry, hard to operate, dangerous to the user (they could explode), had a horrific rate of fire, noisy, created a lot of smoke to obscure the battleplace, etc. Ben Franklin, I think it was, argued for the longbow as it could be manufactured anywhere, was light, safer to operate, had a massive rate of fire, was silent, and just as deadly as the musket - the ideal weapon for the Americans. He was shot down (NPI) - unless the Continental Army used 'modern' firearms, the US would never be considered an equal to England, France, etc.

    I really was expecting them to use firearms, missiles, machine cannon, and nukes in Enterprise. I was sorely disappointed when they 'invented' phasers in the 2nd show.

  13. First parsed as... by Megane · · Score: 1

    Calibrating the Sci-fi Ray Gun

    It's all about getting the collimation and stuff right, I guess.

    --
    #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
  14. Its all about the horizontal magazines ... by perpenso · · Score: 1

    Why is the P90 so popular with sci-fi writers?

    Recognizably different + highly plausible.

    It is different from designs people are familiar with yet it represents a highly plausible next generation design. For example a horizontal magazine in-line with the sights allows a user to easily see how many rounds are available. A horizontal magazine also allows the user to get closer to the ground. A vertical magazine sticking out the bottom unnecessarily raises the weapon and the users head, making the head a better target for an opponent. This limits the capacity of vertical magazines, so a horizontal may more easily offer greater capacity.

  15. Klono's Whiskers! by EdZ · · Score: 2

    No mention at all of Lensman, the root node of Space Opera, and the classic DeLameter? Or even the Stendish, a combined semiportable energy weapon/firearm? Pah!

    1. Re:Klono's Whiskers! by WuphonsReach · · Score: 1

      Sad but true. I doubt very many people under the age of 40 have read the Lensman series.

      And don't forget the Q-gun.

      --
      Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
    2. Re:Klono's Whiskers! by RogerWilco · · Score: 1

      Sad but true. I doubt very many people under the age of 40 have read the Lensman series.

      I have read the first two, and then I was too bored to read further. There is lots of other SF from the 50's that is more fun to read in my view. I really enjoyed reading some old Perry Rhodan books last year for example.

      --
      RogerWilco the Adventurous Janitor
    3. Re:Klono's Whiskers! by Aussie · · Score: 1

      That was my first thought, how can you discuss Science Fiction ray guns without mentioning E.E. Doc. Smith ? Those Lensmen had a ray/beam/field/etc for every eventuality. I still enjoy pulling his books out every coupla years.

  16. Re:Phasers: How about longbows? by sseaman · · Score: 1

    That's a good point.

    I'll add that muskets were also very expensive, but that might not be a downside. Given many British soldiers didn't actually own their weapons, by training on guns they had to return and couldn't afford to buy for themselves they became incapable of rebellion. At the same time, training on longbows, which had been required previously of many men in England, was outlawed.

    Presumably this is specifically what the Second Amendment is about--militiamen must be able to own their weapon, and militias are the more democratic form of army. Of course, the point became moot once Federal armies were drawn up and we routinely had soldiers practice with weapons they couldn't afford and, nowadays, can't legally own. What good do your tank, fighter jet, mortar, grenade skills do you when you're not in uniform? You'll never have access to those weapons to use against the government. Therefore, the government doesn't have to worry about you using those skills against it.

    That might be the point of the phaser. In the "peaceful" world of Star Trek, phasers have replaced guns specifically because they're more technologically advanced, expensive, and less lethal.

  17. Railguns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think railguns are cooler. Stopping 2 kg of tungsten hitting you with the speed of 3 km/s will take a lot more than deflecting some pansy heat wave.

  18. Kill-o-Zap by AftanGustur · · Score: 2

    The Kill-O-Zap gun is a long, silver mean-looking device, the designers of which decided to make it totally clear that it had a right end, and a wrong end, and if that meant sticking blacked and evil-looking devices and prongs all over the wrong end, so be it.

    --
    echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln80~Psnlbx]16isb572CCB9AE9DB03273snlbxq' |dc
    1. Re:Kill-o-Zap by camperdave · · Score: 2

      The Kill-O-Zap gun is a long, silver mean-looking device, the designers of which decided to make it totally clear that it had a right end, and a wrong end, and if that meant sticking blacked and evil-looking devices and prongs all over the wrong end, so be it.

      You've got to love a good design ethic.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  19. set phasers to stun by mbaGeek · · Score: 1

    and take off the stormtrooper sights ...

    --
    It ain't what they call you. It's what you answer to. http://mylyceum.us/
  20. Can't even dodge a paintball ... by perpenso · · Score: 1

    TNG generally had beam phasers. But DS9 and later tended to use blasters that shot slower balls of whatever.

    As someone who has watched many a slow paintball coming in and yet has been unable to dodge them, I'm still a little skeptical. Then again I am not starfleet material. :-)

    1. Re:Can't even dodge a paintball ... by Chrontius · · Score: 1

      As someone who has dodged a handful of paintballs at long range - mostly by dropping for cover - it's not impossible. But it is very, very difficult, and conditions need to be pretty ideal.

  21. Oblig. by wcrowe · · Score: 1

    Great article, but no mention of the greatest ray gun of all: the Illudium Pu-36 Explosive Space Modulator.

    --
    Proverbs 21:19
    1. Re:Oblig. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where's the kaboom? There was supposed to be an earth shattering kaboom!

  22. War college by perpenso · · Score: 1

    Ummmm ... where does one write a thesis on orbital bombardment and in what discipline of study?

    Perhaps at a war college, its the place one visits on the way to becoming a general or admiral. Something like:
    "Throughout its history, the college has held fast to the belief, first articulated by its founding president, Rear Admiral Stephen B. Luce, that ,"The War College is a place of original research on all questions relating to war and to statesmanship connected with war, or the prevention of war.""
    http://www.usnwc.edu/About.aspx

  23. My favorite was... by Layer+3+Ninja · · Score: 1

    ... the Ronald Reagan

    --
    Power corrupts. Absolute power...is even more fun.
  24. Is that pew pew in your ... by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 1

    Is that pew pew in your in your pants or are you just -- Oh god, oh god no!

  25. Missing from TA by carpefishus · · Score: 1

    Are the guns from Firefly (which are not ray guns but a real throwback to the 19th century in some cases) and the pulse weapons of Farscape.

    --
    Facts take all of the premium out of arm waving - T. Reynolds
  26. Pacifism/Idealism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The reason is pretty simple, actually: Gene Rodenberry wanted his pacifist explorers to carry less-lethal weapons. Hence the "phasers on stun" catch phrase. You can also see it in the prop design. Starfleet phaser props often looked like remote controls, electric shavers, or Dustbusters. Even the props that did have pistol butts moved the grip closer to the end of the barrel, making them more T-shaped, to distinguish them from actual guns.

    When Gene was not involved, the phasers got a lot more actual-gun like.

    In-universe, if you accept the idealistic pacifism of the Federation, you can see why they'd go out into the universe carrying nothing but glorified shock prods. Well, except for the Klingons and their disruptors...but at least the Klingons also carried knives.

  27. ZF-1 by QuantumPion · · Score: 1

    It's light. Handle's adjustable for easy carrying, good for righties and lefties. Breaks down into four parts, undetectable by x-ray, ideal for quick, discreet interventions. A word on firepower. Titanium recharger, three thousand round clip with bursts of three to three hundred, and with the Replay button - another Zorg invention - it's even easier.

    1. Re:ZF-1 by lennier · · Score: 1

      A real warrior, however, would have asked about the little red button on the side.

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
  28. Star Wars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wasn't the Star Wars missile defense system proposed by a president named Raygun?

  29. don't forget Tesla by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nikola Tesla is said to have invented a ray gun type device. He even claimed that a test of it caused the Tunguska Event.

  30. Glad you mentioned Firefly... by Radical+Moderate · · Score: 1

    because in their universe ray guns and firearms exist, but it's firearms that triumphed. there's an episode where they steal a ray gun, not for it's awesomeness as a weapon but it's value as an antique. I can't remember if they get into why ray guns didn't catch on, I think they were incredibly expensive and unreliable. A firearm, after all, is pretty darn simple and effective.

    --
    Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
    1. Re:Glad you mentioned Firefly... by itsdapead · · Score: 1

      I can't remember if they get into why ray guns didn't catch on, I think they were incredibly expensive and unreliable.

      That's basically it: In the episode Heart of Gold the baddie brags about his state of the art laser weapon - when it comes to the big shoot-up he gets off a few shots, causing some minor unpleasantness, before it starts flashing "battery low" errors.

      Of course, in a colonisation situation, you really don't want tools with "no user serviceable parts inside" that rely on irreplaceable spare parts made from exotic materials at the top of a huge "technology pyramid".

      --
      In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
    2. Re:Glad you mentioned Firefly... by Radical+Moderate · · Score: 1

      I forgot we got to see it in action...guess it's time to raid my daughter's DVD collection again!

      --
      Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
  31. Re:Phasers: How about longbows? by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 2

    Big difference is it takes years of training to be able to use a longbow effectively, whereas anyone could aim and operate a musket effectively.

  32. pew, pew... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that is all.

  33. Re:Phasers: How about longbows? by Guppy · · Score: 2

    The weapons at the time were cannon and musket. Muskets were iron, hard to make, heavy to carry, hard to operate, dangerous to the user (they could explode), had a horrific rate of fire, noisy, created a lot of smoke to obscure the battleplace, etc. Ben Franklin, I think it was, argued for the longbow as it could be manufactured anywhere, was light, safer to operate, had a massive rate of fire, was silent, and just as deadly as the musket - the ideal weapon for the Americans.

    The problem is, Longbows require extensive training to fire effectively. Firearms allowed you to get away with cheaper, less well trained troops.

  34. Use a dictionary! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are presidents Reagan and Gunray, but not Raygun.

  35. Ray gun trickery by steveha · · Score: 2

    When I was a teen, I read a science fiction novel which contained a nifty subplot involving a ray gun.

    I believe the novel was The Secret of the Martian Moons by Donald A. Wallheim.

    Our hero, a young spaceman from Earth, is crewman on the first spaceship from Earth to land on one of the moons of Mars. He is involved with the humanoid aliens who live there. He is pretty sure there is something odd going on, and he doesn't entirely trust them. A faction of these aliens gives him a ray gun, and tells him that it is a harmless stunner, and it is vitally important that he use it to stun some person (I think the person was an alien but I'm not even certain). Because he is suspicious of them, he wonders whether the ray gun might not be as advertised; perhaps it is a lethal weapon. Perhaps, even, it emits some sort of horrible radiation that would kill the user. So, when the moment of truth comes, he doesn't pull the trigger; instead he throws the ray gun with great force against the head of his target, knocking the target out. Later it is revealed that the gun is a convincing prop, not a working ray gun at all; and the faction he didn't trust was setting him up to fail. But instead he succeeded, throwing their evil plans into disarray. Moral: don't trifle with spacemen from Earth.

    If anyone else has read this and can confirm any details, or if this is from some other book, please post a follow-up here. I would actually like to get a copy of this book and re-read it. It probably isn't as good as I remember, but I still want to re-read it.

    steveha

    --
    lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
    1. Re:Ray gun trickery by steveha · · Score: 1
      --
      lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
  36. Earth-shattering Kaboom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Read TFA and am much disappoint - no love at all for the Illudium Q38 space resonator.

  37. Re:Phasers: How about longbows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As a sniper, sure. In formation, using massed arrow fire at bodies of troops at 4-5 shots per minute? Nope! It would be just like a feathered shot-gun blast - rip a block of troops to shreds.

    It also took years to train the musketmen too - and discipline was the key to everything in those formations. Takes a long time to drill the fear out of men in the line. But if you are firing 5-6 shots for every one of theirs? A lot easier to stick it out.

  38. Re:Phasers: How about longbows? by BranMan · · Score: 1

    Actually, the opposite. Untrained troops using muskets were called militia (poor militia at that). Without the training and discipline of the regular troops they could not stand up to the British formations. They were routed and battered time and again. For a pitched battle, massed arrow fire wouldn't need a long time to train the troops to perform, and would be very deadly as no troops at that time wore any type of armor or shields.