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RIAA-Backed Warrantless Search Bill In California
lordvramir writes "If you run a CD or DVD duplication company and you're based in California, you may soon be subject to warrantless searches in order to 'fight piracy.' California Senate Bill 550, introduced by Sen. Alex Padilla (D-Pacoima), has slowly begun making its way through the state legislature as a way to cut down on counterfeit discs, but critics worry that it may open the door to Fourth Amendment violations." This fits in well with other recent moves to neuter the Fourth Amendment.
and water is wet, details at 11
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
WTF...the Supreme court makes a horrible decision with regard to warrant-less searches.
I believe it was Indiana that just made warrantless searches ok, and you can't defend yourself against them...and now this??
Geez...the police state is gathering steam MUCH faster than I'd expected.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
than suppressing music and movie piracy? Those individual rights ideas in the constitution that we inherited from the Magna Carta just make that soooooo... difficult.
Excuse me, I have to go wipe up some of that sarcasm that's dripping on the floor here.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
That's not the most controversial part of the bill, though. SB550 also has provisions that would allow law enforcement to begin inspecting disc replication plants without a warrant in order to verify that they're complying with the law. These inspections must take place during regular business hours, but if officers find equipment that they suspect is being used for non-legit purposes, it can be seized.
I wonder how the summary somehow left out that these warrentless searches are of commercial disc replication plants.
I would assume that all commercial buildings are subject to warrentless searches to enforce various safety and workplace laws...
Anyway, I don't support any degradation of the 4th amendment, but I don't appreciate the deceptive manipulation of large numbers of people who can be counted on to not read the fucking article either.
Once you reach the point where the police forces are there to enforce the rights and whims of corporations, you might as well accept the fact that you're no longer a democracy.
A lot of these things used to be civil law, but now all of a sudden we're using tax-payer funded agencies to police on behalf of copyright holders.
If people were astonished to realize that the FBI spends most of its cybercrime resources of child pornography ... wait until traditional police forces and government agencies are spending much of their time policing copyright.
This will only get worse.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Reps in our fine state tend to pass laws to look good for their constituents knowing that it wont stand up to the legal challenge...assuming a group or person will bring a lawsuit of course. This makes oh so much sense for a state without a dime to its name. Passing stupid and unconstitutional laws is cheap, getting them repealed is very expensive for both the state and its citizens. Watching the state senate at work via stream is about the most painful thing you can do, especially as you write your yearly tax check. Keep up the good work!
Businesses are not people, they don't have any rights against warrantless search.
This is one of the few times on this type of issue where the government isn't overreaching and violating the constitution.
We also already have inspections of other industrys for illegal practices (food industrys, chemical industrys, etc.) So why should replication businesses have any special status.
Ninja Stallman!
But seriously, if this passes and is enforced, then we might as well accept that we're now a fascist state according to Mussolini's definition of it.
I am officially gone from
Had enough Change yet?
Change? What change? Everything looks exactly the same as it always has. Just because the left hand blinker has been flashing all this time, the car is still just moseying along straight ahead, obstructing traffic...
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
I would assume that all commercial buildings are subject to warrentless searches to enforce various safety and workplace laws...
But that's just it - there are exceptions to warrantless searches on grounds such as public safety and worker safety... e.g., health inspections, nursing home inspections, OSHA compliance, etc.
Extending those kinds of warrantless searches to look for potential copyright infringement is not in the same vein. Where is the pressing public necessity that justifies the encroachment on the 4th Amendment? To me, it just sounds like the copyright industries want the taxpayer-funded police to act as their own private security force. What if every industry took that approach? Why not have warrantless searches of research labs in order to make sure there is no patent infringement going on?
"Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
Protests are *already* threats to national security.
Remember Dubya's "free speech zones" that were a mile or more from where he was giving a speech, and the protesters were herded into these areas, nowhere near the media or the president?
Or how the FBI infiltrates even the most innocuous groups that band together to discuss freedoms, rights, and how badly run the government is?
And it doesn't matter which "team" they are playing for, all politicians are about power and money. They are all in the pockets of big corps.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
Businesses are not people, they don't have any rights against warrantless search.
This is one of the few times on this type of issue where the government isn't overreaching and violating the constitution.
We also already have inspections of other industrys for illegal practices (food industrys, chemical industrys, etc.) So why should replication businesses have any special status.
Because illegal practices in those other industries can lead to mass death and loss of life. Tainted food could kill consumers, unsafe chemical plants can explode and leave a city sized crater.
Who dies if the copyright cops have to wait to get a warrant as opposed to not getting one?
More Twoson than Cupertino
For decades the Supreme Court has recognized the constitutionality of warrantless administrative inspections of closely regulated businesses with a long tradition of close government supervision. "Certain industries have such a history of government oversight that no reasonable expectation of privacy could exist for a proprietor over the stock of such an enterprise." Marshall v. Barlow's, Inc., 436 U.S. 307, 313 (1978). This has come to be called the Colonnade-Biswell doctrine, after the cases of Colonnade Corp. v. United States and United States v. Biswell. Industries in which warrantless searches have been approved include pawn shops that sell firearms (the Biswell case), liquor stores (the Colonnade case), quarries, and automobile junkyards.
However, even if warrantless searches of CD duplication businesses are allowable as a threshold matter, there are still three important limits on those searches. First, there must be a substantial government interest that informs the regulatory scheme pursuant to which the inspection is made. Second, the warrantless inspections must be necessary to further the regulatory scheme. Third, the statute's inspection program, in terms of the certainty and regularity of its application, must provide a constitutionally adequate substitute for a warrant. In other words, the regulatory statute must perform the two basic functions of a warrant: it must advise the owner of the commercial premises that the search is being made pursuant to the law and has a properly defined scope, and it must limit the discretion of the inspecting officers. See New York v. Burger, 482 US 691, 702-03 (1987).
Here, it's not clear to me that CD duplication businesses are closely regulated businesses with a tradition of close government supervision. It's possible that the copyright laws (particularly the criminal copyright laws) amount to such regulation, but in my opinion it would be a close case. In most cases there is some kind of government licensing regime, and I don't think a license is required to operate a CD duplicating business. But it's important to note the limits on those searches that would still be in place even if they are allowed.
If I operated a business of this kind in California, I'd relocate it to Reno or Vegas in a week. No more unconstitutional searches, and no corporate income tax to boot.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
for the people of this once great country to finally stand up for themselves and assert the power they've always had?
"Stand up for my rights? I'd rather sit down and watch American Idol."
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Evelyn Beatrice Hall, re Voltaire
... it seems I have a CD burner in my laptop and can be used to manufacture CDs
Businesses are generally PRIVATE property owned by CITIZENS. Inspections for safety are in the public's interest, it makes sense and even then they cant just barge into sensitive and trade secret areas on a whim. No one from OSHA could force their way into a building through use of force or violence. Police action fishing for copyright compliance is not the same thing at all. Do i really need to write out a long post to explain the difference between safety regulations and criminal law enforcement in a free society?
Good-bye
So, my car was broken into last night. The thief, ate my crackers, took the $2 in meter change, and left the 20 CD's stacked there. So the RIAA is pursuing CD duplication? Not even petty thieves see it worth their effort to steal them at this point. This is so anachronistic it proves how little they understand their own market.
I used to wonder what was so holy about a silent night, now I have a child.
Kittens, and corporate profits.
You don't want to kill kittens, do you?
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
I thought the Dems were all about personality andshit. Fuck whoever you want in the ass wherever you want using government condems.
So now they want to fuck everyone in the ass with taxes and no warrent searches.
Had enough Change yet?
This is not really a republican or democrat idea but a recent trend of infringement on American's Fourth Amendment. Indiana has recently passed a bill to have warentless searches. If a police officer suspects any "Funny business" of any sort, they can intrude without a warent. This is fine and dandy when an actual crime is happening, but they can do it at any time, and if you resist in Indiana, you can be arrested for impeding an officer's investigation. If you attack an officer while he/she barges in because you are trying to protect your property, you will be charged with Assault of an Officer (which is a federal crime). It has passed in Indiana, and it is has set forth for similar laws in Texas, California, and anyone else. If someone suspects that you are doing something bad or wrong, they can call the cops and infringe on your fourth amendment.
This is a recent bill passed in indy, so it can be overturned if it is taken to to the feds, but hasn't yet.
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110518/17015914326/what-4th-amendment-indiana-sheriff-says-random-warrantless-house-to-house-searches-are-okay.shtml
The problem is that there are a lot of people out there that think this is an appropriate use of governmental power, and will be more likely to vote for the politicians who support it. Ultimately, there is no protection available that can protect us from ourselves in a democratic society.
"The enemy is not he who is born beyond our borders, nor he who speaks a language different from our own, but he who, without any right, seeks to strip away the liberty and independence of others." --Enrico Malatesta
...before people finally figure out that their basic civil liberties are being eroded? Why are there not marches on Washington over things like this? Has America become so lazy, stupid, and nonchalant that we are going to let this happen? I live in NY, and work with the police everyday at my job. If they tried to come into my house without a warrant, I sure as hell wouldn't let that happen. And I sure as hell wouldn't let it be ok and just go about my business like nothing wrong just happened if they did somehow come in.
The more news I read lately, the more depressed I get about America.
"I hope you know how very lucky you are to know me, because I am so incredibly incredible."
When? The rights of the citizens of this country, right now, are being trampled by OUR OWN GOVERNMENT far more than the crown was accused of doing 235 years ago. What is it going to take?
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Evelyn Beatrice Hall, re Voltaire
You're right; this is not Democrat vs Republican. It is statist vs libertarian.
If there was EVER any definable difference between Democrat and Republican, it has been gone for a LONG time. To SOME degree there is a remnant of liberal (D) vs conservative (R) difference, but even that is obsolete thinking. It is about the other orthogonal axis. It is about the lure of power vs a willingness to LEAVE THE HELL ALONE. It is about caving in to faceless demonic corporations vs seeing to the rights of the people. It is about tilting at windmills: war on drugs, war on terrorism, war on copyright "infringement."
Isn't a 300GB SATA drive cheaper than 400 CD's?
Does a health inspector need a warrant to search a restaurant or food plant?
Does a BATF inspector need a warrant to search a distillery?
Does a safety inspector need a warrant to search a manufacturing plant?
In all these cases the answer is no. They can freely inspect commercial establishments to ensure the companies are following the law.
Equating this to random searches of houses is FUD. A random search of a private residence is against the Fourth Amendment. The statement by a couple of Sheriffs in Indiana, refuted by their Attorney General, is not evidence that random house to house searches are considered legal. It has never been tested in court and would in all likelihood be thrown out.
The Supreme Court case is also different in the following ways;
1. The police were in pursuit of a drug suspect.
2. The apartment smelled of drugs. A police officer made the connection between the drug suspect and the smell of drugs.
3. They knocked on the door identifying themselves as they are probably required to do.
4. They heard something that sounded like destruction of evidence (an illegal act).
5. They went in.
Should they have waited a half hour for a warrant while the suspect was in another apartment or getting away through another exit? Would they have enough manpower to cordon off every apartment that smelled of drugs? The stupid part about all this is that had the occupants been smart and just sat there the police would have had no "exigent circumstances" with which to enter. Another solution would have been for someone to come to the door and ask for a warrant. In this case the police are attempting to capture a suspected drug dealer in possession of illegal drugs and they had every indication that someone was attempting to destroy the evidence that were looking for. It is not a random search. That ruling is nowhere near as broad as the article is trying to make it.
Posting anonymously for reasons that should be obvious.
When I heard about that bill my first thought was its time to get violent. That is so fucking outrageous, so blatant, so "fuck you citizens" that I have to believe the only way to save this country is through violence. Supreme Court rulings where you are criminally responsible for any self defense during a SWAT raid on the wrong address, court rulings saying the smell of marijuana is enough to bust down somebody's door, the whole war on drugs, the TSA, prosecuting people taping their traffic stops under wire tapping laws when the government itself performs warrantless wiretaps. They're all ridiculous, they're not getting better, and it doesn't matter who we vote in. Never forget that the citizens are the highest authority, and these disgusting pieces of filth are the real criminals. Kill them before they kill you.
Businesses are not people, they don't have any rights against warrantless search.
This is completely false. "The Court long has recognized that the Fourth Amendment's prohibition on unreasonable searches and seizures is applicable to commercial premises, as well as to private homes. An owner or operator of a business thus has an expectation of privacy in commercial property, which society is prepared to consider to be reasonable." New York v. Burger, 482 US 691, 699 (1987).
Businesses are owned by people. The property of a business is private property. Government cannot enter upon private property without a warrant. All of the inspections that you mention require arrangements for inspection, some with penalties if the inspections are denied, but all require some kind of process surrounding the inspection. Not a blanket permit for the police(!) to walk through the business looking for violations of law.
It's so nice to see that California has solved its multi billion dollar budget shortfall and has plenty of time to craft bullshit legislation that is obviously a gimme to the MPAA/RIAA drones that are stuffing their pockets with cash.
Schools are funded, everyone has a job, housing market is stable, health care system is awesome. Right? Nope. But hey, we need to allow no-knock warrants where someone might be committing the heinous act of burning a bunch of DVDs. Clearly that is worthy of felony charges and huge fines. The MPAA & RIAA sure think so.
Hopefully the rest of America doesn't. But Feinstein got her "recording device in theater = felony" bill signed into law. Stuff like this slips right under the radar of the average American, especially when "American Idol" is about to finish up another season. Ugh.
Don't get me wrong, I will respect a cop, if he respects me and my space, but Indiana has had a bad track record of corrupt cops in the past 18 months alone. This alone is making me look at the law as a full on war on personal rights. I have my weapons (second amendment) ready for this. I have been the type to oppose guns or any weapons, but as this was handed down, I am now seeing a real reason for the Second amendment and I will do whatever it takes to protect myself and all who are in my home from any invaders, domestic or foreign.
The US military, when they sign up, they sign up to protect the citizens and uphold the constitution from Foreign and Domestic threats. We need them to help us now, more than ever.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Posting anonymously for reasons that should be obvious.
Yes. Too much weed has made you paranoid ;)
I guess the people that sell that stuff will have to have it made at a location not traceable to them. Folly rules!
So... these "discs" is that some kind of new cloud-enabled P2P system to make it easier to download $BLOCKBUSTEROFTHEWEEK ?
Republicans are Big Business and Democrats are Big Media
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-indiana-supreme-court-dispenses-magna-carta-constitution
Bingo! Anyone who bothers to vote for anything other than local elections is simply wasting their time, as any and ALL choices will be pre-approved by our corporate owners before being allowed to proceed. Hell even though I don't approve of his policies just look at how quick the MSM was when it came to isolating Ron Paul when it looked like he might actually gain some support. Not pre-approved by the corporate owners? Well then you are a stupid quack nutjob worthless of being allowed to speak according to the mouthpiece of the owners, aka our "news" services.
To those that think anything short of an Egypt style revolt will stop our slouching into a fascist corporate owned police state here are your choices in the next presidential election. you can vote for the corporate ass kissing fascist in the blue suit, or the corporate ass kissing fascist in the other blue suit. Notice how neither choice gives you someone who isn't a corporate asskissing fascist? This is what they commonly call "voting for the lesser of two evils" which is in reality about as much choice as being handed a slip with two boxes, one says "Check here to vote for el presidente!" and the other says "check here to support el presidente by voting for him".
To all my fellow /.ers I say this...steal the shit. Steal anything and everything that ain't nailed down, pirate the living fuck out of everything you can. Because we have seen conclusively that "voting with your dollars" has completely failed as they simply list ALL lost sales as piracy and get ever more draconian laws passed regardless, and if you ever did enough damage to actually cause them any financial pain they would simply have themselves declared 'too big to fail" and take the money out of your pocket while the government holds you down.
So snatch that shit buddy, snatch everything you can. It is only a matter of time before China calls in the loans and the whole thing turns into Zimbabwe part II, so you might as well get yours because they are sure as fuck snatching every damned thing that ain't nailed down, like the public domain, freedoms like the fourth amendment, and anything else on their corporate wishlists.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
I got RIAA in my pants.
According to leading medical research, "RIAA in pants" can cause severe skin irritations. Perhaps you'd like an analgesic cream?
Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
not a bill, a court decision, probably on it's way to the supreme court.
It would take legislation to change this even if it should already be different based on any reasonable reading of the constitution.
By the way, that sheriff is an idiot, the court did not say anything turned up by an illegal search would be admitted, they just said you shouldn't resist. My normal policy is don't argue with cops, argue with judges, so I can see his point. It doesn't really change anything. Look at any no knock mistake that resulted in police injury or death. The people doing the shooting always go to jail. While the police can kill people during oops raids and have very little repercussions. I'm kind of glad this is so out in the open. Now maybe we can hope for a legislative fix.
Cheap storage VM.
Fascists like fascism. Film at 11. SCOTUS ruling against it at 12, revolution at 1 AM if the SCOTUS refuses to rule against something that's unconstitutional by inspection.
Really though, revolution some time in the late 90s. The *IAA have already been lined up against the wall and shot. This is just the action of a twitching corpse. It's the corpse of a raptor mind you, so mind the slashing tail; but it's still a corpse.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
I haven't had enough change yet.
I was hoping, and I think with some justification, that Obama would do several things. He would do something to establish that torture was wrong, something more than just saying he wasn't going to condone it. He would get us out of Iraq and Afghanistan. He would re-establish the rule of law in dealing with prisoners. He would cut down on the inane airport security. He would push through a decent first step towards a first-world health care system.
Currently, I think we might have gotten more of that with McCain.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Seriously? Kill them before they kill you? You don't have the balls. I'll eat my words when you and your militia storm the capitol and start executing lawmakers. Me, I prefer not to act like a terrorist and go for more non violent methods. You have many options. How about you and several million other people refuse to pay taxes? That would get the attention of an already cash starved govt. How about you stage massive non violent protests? Certainly worked for Gandhi. This isn't the dark ages; we don't have to cut off the king's head to make change. But we DO need people who are actually willing to act instead of just talk, something I doubt you're capable of. If you are, then I'll be sure to say I'm sorry by visiting you in federal prison.
If they truly want to crack down on illegal duplication of CDs and DVDs, they need to look at South East Asia, not South Central LA. Of course that would make it a State Department issue and not a 4th amendment issue, as California doesn't have any jurisdiction over other countries.
Of course, this makes Indiana the 41st state to take this interpretation of the law (it was a state supreme court ruling, not a law passing). 40 others already make it illegal to resist or interfere with a police officer even when they are doing something illegal like kicking in the door without a warrant.
I'd be at the rally in Indy next Wednesday, but the economy is so bad out here in Indiana that I can't afford to take the time off from work. Let alone for political purposes. How's that for living in a police state? Keep 'em scared enough economically, socially, and of the cops themselves to do anything about it.
Shit, this actually has me agreeing with the teabaggers out here. How bad can a law be to make me do that?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chibrknews-ind-ruling-on-illegal-police-entry-sparks-protest-20110519,0,4882870.story
Schools are funded, everyone has a job, housing market is stable, health care system is awesome. Right? Nope. But hey, we need to allow no-knock warrants where someone might be committing the heinous act of burning a bunch of DVDs. Clearly that is worthy of felony charges and huge fines. The MPAA & RIAA sure think so.
Of course. From their viewpoint, CD and DVD copying caused the economic collapse.
I wouldn't even be surprised to hear them assert that over their members' media outlets any minute now.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
as a way to cut down on counterfeit discs
No your honor, the disks are genuine. I bought them at Office Depot, and here's the receipt.
I think the idea is more geared at what's on the disks, not the disks themselves.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
(whispers... police here....)
Ok boys, break the door down....
Not all businesses are corporations, but corporations are people for most purposes in the US (and others) today. Google "corporate personhood" or "legal personality" for more information.
Leave OBAMA ALONE!
He only spent 750 million dollars on the election after breaking his promise not to do so. Boo hoo!
"...any equipment that does not stamp the appropriate mark on the discs in question, or any equipment that would make it easy to forge the mark..."
in other words: "any equipment, period."
Given your inability to spell, I'd say you're either not one of the people Obama wants to tax (i.e. rich folks) or you're a trust funder who fucked off his education.
Also, I'd like to point out your inability to distinguish federal from state government (change was Obama's thing, this is the California senate), your complete lack of memory (warrantless searches started during the Bush era - so pretty much both parties have shown a willingness for them), and your inability to make sense (Democrats are about personality? WTF?).
How about doing yourself a favor and learn a bit about government before spouting all your inane bullshit?
Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach either, do tech support.
This makes me want to start up a CD duplicating company just so I can tell them to shove off when they come to my door wanting to search with no warrant.
Why is it that most of the people that I encounter seem to have been shat from the Sphincter of Mediocrity?
Unless my high school civics class memories are fuzzier than I think, but anyone who is brought up on charges where evidence is collected under this law will have all charges dropped seems how federal law trumps state law.
BINGO!
I've got Libertarian Troll Bingo!
"But if you got a warrant, I guess you're gonna come in."
... Indiana has recently passed a bill to have warentless searches. If a police officer suspects any "Funny business" of any sort, they can intrude without a warent. ...
Dang, they don't like comedians in Indiana, do they?
Be seeing you...
Democrats back unconstitutional bill...
and water is wet, details at 11
thank you for reiterating the top post of this thread. It really adds ALLOT to the conversation.
Hell even though I don't approve of his policies just look at how quick the MSM was when it came to isolating Ron Paul when it looked like he might actually gain some support
Actually, most Americans dismissed Ron Paul when they finally checked out what his political beliefs were and what the consequences were. He gained a lot of followers when the faithful spoke in rather vague "the government has gone too far" terms, then lost them again when people heard him in debates and saw his stances on issues.
First of all, getting a single square is NOT bingo, unless you have the most fucked up game of bingo I've ever heard, second don't insult me by calling me a libertarian, I'm a socialist thank you VERY much.
And you still haven't answered the fundamental question: How is voting supposed to do ANYTHING when both parties have identical views? How's that Hope and Change working out for ya? Who has held onto every nasty policy Bush supported, even taking them farther when he could? And now Obama says he has the right to assassination of Americans on American soil thanks to irrevocable "war powers" so you tell me, how EXACTLY is he ANY different than the man who preceded him?
This isn't about some political party Mr funny man, this is about the loss of the very essence of a free society! This is about using the government as the personal attack dogs of the corporations (15 years in jail for copyright infringement?) and when bad management and cronyism causes the business to implode simply labeling it "too big to fail" and handing them a blank check. You find ANYTHING at all funny about that? You currently "owe" about $78,000 thanks to the spending insanity of our leaders, you know this right?
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.