Galaxy Tab 10.1 Judged 'No Match For iPad'

tripleevenfall writes "Clayton Morris reviews the Galaxy Tab 10.1, and finds it lacking, especially at the $400 price point, saying 'I can't in good conscience tell you to go out and spend $400 on this half-baked experience when the fully baked iPad experience can be had for just a few dollars more.'"

Comments

Stupid Judge

[Anonymous Coward]

Justice is blind and so is this is judge.

Re:Stupid Judge

[Anonymous Coward]

You can mod me down all you want but this will get over turned on appeal they you get an intelligent judge.

Re:Stupid Judge

[Anonymous Coward]

Niggers are 13% of the population. Niggers are 50% of all inmates. What a bunch of niggers!

What's the iPad experience?

[Anonymous Coward]

Being a big iPhone that can't make phone calls?

Re:What's the iPad experience?

[aristotle-dude]

Being a big iPhone that can't make phone calls?

Which is different from most Android tablets how? You can always use Skype, Facetime or one of IM clients that support video conferencing?

Re:What's the iPad experience?

[solidraven]

I'd rather drag an ancient phone box around on a trailer all day than install anything made by Apple Inc. (specifically iTunes and QuickTime) on my computer.

Re:What's the iPad experience?

[pandrijeczko]

Personally, I think far too many people have got lost in all the hype & marketing over tablets without stopping to think about the possibility that maybe they're just gimmicks anyway, whether iPad or Galaxy Tab.

Smartphones provide a lot in the way of communications, IM and playing music, their weaknesses are down to the screen sizes if you want to play a reasonably good game or watch some video.

A notebook or netbook has the bigger screen to do that, plus it has they have tactile keyboards so you can do serious work on them - something a tablet is not very good at.

So whilst a tablet would fit somewhere between a smartphone and netbook, it clearly is unable to replace either which means it just becomes a third device to carry around with you. And I thought the whole premise behind portability was being able to carry around less.

Re:What's the iPad experience?

[beelsebob]

That's rather exactly the problem he's highlighting in the tab... The iPad has lots of apps tailored to it, much grander affairs than the iPhone versions (if such things even exist). The tab has a bunch of android apps that don't quite work right on it.

Re:What's the iPad experience?

[beelsebob]

You're right – both phones and netbooks are better than tablets in some respects. But that doesn't mean that there's no niche a tablet fills.

Here's a few:
Meetings. If you go and sit behind a screen in a meeting you'll get ostracised from it. You'll not really take part in the meeting because of the barrier between you and everyone else. A tablet lying flat on the desk makes it easy to take/look up notes, but doesn't separate you out from everyone else.
Lectures. A netbook with its physical keyboard is great to take notes on, but the onscreen keyboard on a tablet is almost as good, and what happens when you want to draw the diagram your lecturer just drew on the white board, and what happens when you want to take a photo/video of the way the lecturer is explaining things.
Jobs where you're on your feet, and used to need a clipboard. People taking surveys (shudder), pitlane reporter for motorsport (the BBC's F1 reporters all have iPads, and I can honestly see the use of it), ...

Basically. Anywhere you used to need a big ring binder or book, now a tablet suffices instead, and I don't believe a netbook or a phone does.

Re:What's the iPad experience?

[pandrijeczko]

I think your third example is the strongest one and I really cannot argue with that as a clear advantage of a tablet over anything else.

Lectures? I think I have to give you that one, I've not been in educational classes for more than a quarter of a century, I've grown up with a keyboard and am probably too old now to ever think a touchscreen is any where near as good - but the young whippersnappers of today seem to have lightning fingers when it comes to phone texting where I thinks it's much easier to make a phone call, so they are also a lot faster than I am on a touchscreen keyboard. So I can't speak for their preferences, for me a touchscreen would be slower.

Meetings? I disagree on that one - whether you're using a laptop or a tablet, your attention on the device is no different. Plus I frequently come across scenarios where someone else is presenting on a projector, a discussion results about a topic, one member of the audience says "Here, have a look at this" then plugs his laptop into the projector to show to the room - something you can't do with a tablet directly.

Re:What's the iPad experience?

[beelsebob]

Meetings? I disagree on that one - whether you're using a laptop or a tablet, your attention on the device is no different. Plus I frequently come across scenarios where someone else is presenting on a projector, a discussion results about a topic, one member of the audience says "Here, have a look at this" then plugs his laptop into the projector to show to the room - something you can't do with a tablet directly.

The issue is more about having all the documentation you need there. Many people go into a meeting needing folders and folders of information on the stuff they're discussing. They need to be able to quickly drag it up and reference it, but not be separated from the meeting with it. And yes, at least the iPad can be plugged into a projector, you need one of these, but honestly, anyone going into a meeting with an iPad will have one, and any company that uses iPads regularly in meetings will likely have one attached to the projector.

Re:What's the iPad experience?

[EyelessFade]

Actually in every other country then US you can call with the Galaxy. They only took it out because carriers in US sux ;)

Re:What's the iPad experience?

[pandrijeczko]

I think we have to just agree to disagree on that - it's interesting to see that an iPad VGA converter exists but then I could also argue why would I pay more money for a cable that converts to something that already exists on my laptop/netbook.

I think it really comes down to the fact that I see mobile OSes as precisely just that - ideal for working on small touchscreens, whether Android, iOS, Blackberry, whatever.

But anything bigger than that then I'm faster and more comfortable with a mouse and keyboard GUI and don't see why having to re-learn a new graphics interface just to do stuff that I can already do on a traditional laptop or netbook justifies the expense of a tablet.

Incidentally, I'm mostly a Linux person and whilst I've never used Ubuntu as my main distribution, I did quite like messing about with it occasionally until they brought in the Unity interface on the latest 11.04 release which, if you don't know, mimics Android and iPhone interfaces. I tried it and hated it immediately because it just doesn't work as a better replacement for a traditional keyboard and mouse on a "standard" sized computer screen.

Re:What's the iPad experience?

[i_ate_god]

tablet + bluetooth keyboard == netbook with touchscreen

Which really means that whatever line is inbetween a tablet and a netbook is fairly blurry.

Re:What's the iPad experience?

[centuren]

Being a big iPhone that can't make phone calls?

How about being a slimmer netbook that is designed to minimize the "I'm typing on a phone that can't make phone calls" laptop experience?

Just guessing, never used an iPad. I've always argued that it would be awkward for me, if others don't find it so and want to pay for it, why not? This story is Galaxy Tab vs iPad, so I think a much better question is what's the iPad experience that makes it different from a great Android phone vs an iPhone, translated to a tablet. I've never for a second felt I've missed out not having an iPhone with my Android phone, why should the iPad make me feel different?

Re:What's the iPad experience?

[centuren]

Personally, I think far too many people have got lost in all the hype & marketing over tablets without stopping to think about the possibility that maybe they're just gimmicks anyway, whether iPad or Galaxy Tab.

Smartphones provide a lot in the way of communications, IM and playing music, their weaknesses are down to the screen sizes if you want to play a reasonably good game or watch some video.

A notebook or netbook has the bigger screen to do that, plus it has they have tactile keyboards so you can do serious work on them - something a tablet is not very good at.

So whilst a tablet would fit somewhere between a smartphone and netbook, it clearly is unable to replace either which means it just becomes a third device to carry around with you. And I thought the whole premise behind portability was being able to carry around less.

I'm sure people will have given specific reasons where a "tablet" fits in, but let's be honest: it's a gadget. If you have the money and desire, it takes little effort to find a way that it fits into your life. How many of us need $80-$90/mo cell phone plans? Speaking for myself, I didn't need a laptop, but the sofa and bed are more comfy than my desk (at least after sitting at my desk for long enough).

If you pull the "do we need this" argument, then there's not much to argue. I live with 7 irresponsible housemates (at my age, it's embarrassing but true), and no one wanted to take responsibility for PG&E, which is gas and electricity for those not residing on the US west coast. I warned power would go out eventually, and it did. Unfortunately no one learned a lesson in paying bills, but after a weekend without power, I learned that almost every power source we leave on (every light but the lamp next to anyone included), really isn't necessary. When power was restored, it almost felt wrong to turn any lights on.

Re:What's the iPad experience?

[green1]

unlike the iPad, many of the android tablets have HDMI ports. so yes, plugging in to a projector is easy.

Re:What's the iPad experience?

[Anonymous Coward]

Cool story, bro.

Re:What's the iPad experience?

[aristotle-dude]

unlike the iPad, many of the android tablets have HDMI ports. so yes, plugging in to a projector is easy.

Please. It is far more common to have a projector with a VGA port than an HDMI port unless if you are only talking about "new" projectors but anyway, an HDMI adaptor is available for the iPad 2 which not only mirrors the display but allows you to plug in a charger at the same time. With the iPad, you can plug in either the HDMI or VGA adaptor. If you only have an HDMI port then you would have to have an HDMI to VGA adapter which might be harder to find if you lost it and hand to get a new one.

Re:What's the iPad experience?

[aristotle-dude]

The 3G model iPads are also capable of making phone calls but it just is not enabled in the firmware. So again, what is the OP's point?

Re:What's the iPad experience?

[green1]

The point that the previous poster made was that they didn't want to carry around adapters, which makes one of the android tablets with HDMI a better option than an iPad which needs an adapter. If you want VGA, you can probably use a VGA adapter to get an Android tablet to display that way too, and still be at the same place (no worse) than the iPad. I'm not sure how you think that it's easy to loose an HDMI to VGA adapter, but difficult to loose an iPad2 proprietary connector to VGA adapter? seems to me that they are both adapters subject to the same limitations...

As for your iPad2 adapter having the great "feature" of being able to charge the device at the same time... that's not needed on a device that has separate ports for separate functions like most Android tablets.

As for what ports projectors have, you're right that old projectors have VGA, and new ones have HDMI, some (many?) new projectors don't have VGA any more, standards change even a full laptop isn't guaranteed to have VGA anymore. Give it a couple years and you may have trouble connecting a VGA port to much of anything.

Re:What's the iPad experience?

[Anonymous Coward]

separate ports for separate functions

Goes against the Apple philosophy. I mean, different holes for shitting and fucking? How untidy!

Re:What's the iPad experience?

[Coren22]

http://www.amazon.com/Dell-Inspiron-Convertible-Multi-touch-Windows/dp/tech-data/B004NWL244

There are better solutions especially if you want the horsepower of a laptop while still having a decent touchscreen.

Fox news on /.? really?

[mauso.mckahl]

not front page.

Re:Fox news on /.? really?

[Joreallean]

Seriously...the end of the end.

Re:Fox news on /.? really?

[tripleevenfall]

they see me trollin

they hatin

Re:Fox news on /.? really?

[Singularity42]

So right. Particularly with unions, Slashdot opposes Fox News.

Re:Fox news on /.? really?

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously...the penis of the nigger.

Re:Fox news on /.? really?

[Anonymous Coward]

you sound like a big chocolatey african porchmonkey coon apeman gorilla orantugan antiquefarmequipment yardape watermelon-eatin friedchicken-eatin biglipped purplegummed jigaboo mooncricket NIGGER. did you know that? well now you do.

Re:Fox news on /.? really?

[Anonymous Coward]

You sound like some of my friends from when I was about 14.

Re:Fox news on /.? really?

[tripleevenfall]

well, you were right up until that last bit. I do love me some fried chicken.

Galaxy Tab has a better screen.

[Anonymous Coward]

See title.

Re:Galaxy Tab has a better screen.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a proud owner of the original galaxy tab and it's safe to say that even though it cost nearly $300 more than an ipad at the time (thanks to the 3G no contact model), it has slightly more uses and the market seems to be just as competitive now. I use a custom rom and the interface is also modded. I'd be happier if I could run windows 7 on it, and I'm sure there's a way... But unless there's full windows support, tablets seem rather pointless. The value of any tablet would increase significantly if they had windows and could run windows games and other apps, but instead your stuck with a library that isn't that bad but they're not that great either. I prefer the original tab over the ipad, can't say the same for the 10" version.

Re:Galaxy Tab has a better screen.

[clarkn0va]

I'd be happier if I could run windows 7 on it, and I'm sure there's a way

It's not as hard as you think. Just take the Windows 7 source code and recompile the whole thing for ARM. Sit back and enjoy a glass of root beer and let the compiler do the rest.

Re:Galaxy Tab has a better screen.

[jessecurry]

Nice troll good sir.

Re:Galaxy Tab has a better screen.

[sortius_nod]

Exactly what I was thinking.

As someone who was looking for a tablet at the same time as the Galaxy Tab came out, I was not won over at all by it. Worse screen, plastic enclosure and higher price, no thanks. I went with and iPad and am quite happy with it. No way Samsung can win if they are going to play this game.

Re:Galaxy Tab has a better screen.

[A12m0v]

Why are you on /.? Windows 7 on ARM? Hand over your geek card, and good luck trying to get Honeycomb to run on your obsoleted Galaxy Tab.

Re:Galaxy Tab has a better screen.

[beelsebob]

Wow, the article seemed a bit biased, but your comment has convinced me that the tab doesn't compete with the iPad at all.

If the experience is so bad that first you modded it, and then you thought "actually windows on this would be better", there's something seriously wrong. The thing that made the iPad a thousand times more successful than its predecessor tablets was that it didn't use windows (or any desktop OS), and wasn't handicapped by its UI being designed for people with mice, and accurate pointing devices.

If honeycomb is so bad that you'd rather go back to that shitty world, the iPad must be a long way ahead.

Re:Galaxy Tab has a better screen.

[mSparks43]

I RTFA,
And can summarise it quite easily.

This new tablet is better, but it doesn't have iPad apps, therefore don't buy it.

Anyone see the problem here?

Re:Galaxy Tab has a better screen.

[PCM2]

Of course, TFA is about the new Galaxy Tab, which has a bigger screen.

My problem even with the bigger screen, though, is that it has the widescreen form factor, unlike the iPad. It's probably great for watching widescreen movies, but I never do that on a tablet. So as it stands, the onscreen keyboard takes up too much space in landscape (sideways) mode, and the screen feels too long and skinny when in portrait mode. The iPad's screen is more balanced.

Re:Galaxy Tab has a better screen.

[greerga]

"Bigger" is relative. Many of the 10.1" widescreen tables have smaller surface area of screen than the 9.7" iPad at 4:3.

Re:Galaxy Tab has a better screen.

[PCM2]

Yes, but the new Galaxy Tab definitely has a bigger screen than the old Galaxy Tab.

fdsa

[smileygladhands]

Who is Clayton Morris?

Re:fdsa

[rotide]

Per Wikipedia:

"Clayton Morris (born December 31, 1976) is a current co-host of Fox & Friends Weekend on Fox News Channel and a former co-host of the syndicated The Daily Buzz. In addition to his work at FNC, Morris runs a media consulting company called Action Now Consultant Group. Morris has also appeared as a guest host of CNET's Podcast The 404. Morris co-hosts a weekly podcast with childhood friend, professional wrestler Mike Quackenbush called The Grizzly Bear Egg Cafe. Every Friday Morris hosts Gadgets & Games on Strategy Room on the Fox website."

In other words, a guy who has no credentials except media wanker. And he likes iPads.

Re:fdsa

[PopeRatzo]

Clayton Morris (born December 31, 1976) is a current co-host of Fox & Friends Weekend on Fox News Channel

Which of course makes him eminently qualified to judge technology. I certainly, for one, will henceforth base all of my technology purchases on the opinions of Mr Morris.

Morris runs a media consulting company called Action Now Consultant Group

Ah, Marketing... what hath thou wrought, goddess?

And anyone who dares to suggest that someone who is paid to use media to manage peoples' perception of things might be taking money to manage peoples' perception of things is a dirty liar, and I shall stand as Clayton Morris' champion to fight for his honour (which is almost certainly more than he's ever done).

Fox News...you've got to be fucking kidding me. What's next, Steve Jobs' picks for the top handheld devices of 2011?

Now, having gotten all that out of the way, can we please have the name of whoever selected a story for the front page of Slashdot based on the opinion of someone from Fox News' "Fox & Friends Weekend"? I would like to know who should henceforth carry the appellation, title, designation of "The Internet's Biggest Fucking Idiot, June 17, 2011".

Re:fdsa

[Anonymous Coward]

An ifanatic that doesn't understand the advantages of android. Its not all about the extra fart apps you can get its the fact you can have multiple desktops, widgets, copy and paste of files and programs, more customization, stand alone system, and generally not being as locked down as apple. That all said the Samsung galaxy tab 10.1 isn't that great, acer's tablet might be a little thicker but its more functional namely usb and sd slot.

Re:fdsa

[Anonymous Coward]

Its not all about the extra fart apps you can get its the fact you can have half-baked multiple desktops, widgets, half-baked copy and paste of files and programs, more half-baked customization, half-baked stand alone system, and generally not being as locked down as apple

FTFY.

Re:fdsa

[Anonymous Coward]

The guy clearly knows what he's talking about. Apparently there are very few decent Twitter clients for it. So, it's shit then....

Unless of course you actually need a fucking client to type 140 characters and read pointless bullshit about the sandwich a B-list celebrity is having for lunch. And even if you do, presumably a "few decent clients" would be enough given that you only need one.

Re:fdsa

[Anonymous Coward]

Huh? Why did you skip the part about him being their "Games & Gadgets" guy? I mean, not that being a TV personality that reviews gadgets necessarily makes a person qualified to do so, but it's not like it's uncommon for someone who reviews gadgets for a living to... well... review a gadget. Nor is it uncommon for these peoples opinions to make their way to slashdot. But suddenly everyone is shocked and appalled by this one?

Or are you just flipping your shit because you saw the words "Fox News" somewhere...

I don't like that station either man, but that's one helluva transparent reaction.

Re:fdsa

[Anonymous Coward]

Here is a real review (including a quick comparison with the iPad 2).

Re:fdsa

[gilesjuk]

Why do you have to be a geek to judge technology?

If anything, the "man on the street" test is often the best one and usability testing is always best done with a total beginner.

Geeks will adapt to all sorts of ridiculously unusable and bad interfaces (command line? :)) but the general public won't.

Re:fdsa

[Snaller]

He is Mr. Natali Del Conte

Re:fdsa

[PopeRatzo]

Why did you skip the part about him being their "Games & Gadgets" guy?

Oh, you mean Clayton Morris is the Fox News Fox and Friends Games & Gadgets Guy?? That changes everything!

I apologize for everything I said. He clearly IS eminently qualified to judge technology if he's the Games & Gadgets Guy.

Remember, Fox News made Sarah Palin a Political Pundit, so clearly you have to have exceptional qualifications to get a job at Fox News.

Re:fdsa

[Lawrence_Bird]

and probably has an iPhone, iMac, iBook and a few thousand shares of AAPL

Re:fdsa

[hexagonc]

Why do you have to be a geek to judge technology?

If anything, the "man on the street" test is often the best one and usability testing is always best done with a total beginner.

I agree to some extent but I think the opinions of the average Joe only matter in aggregate. I wouldn't trust the untrained review by itself. You can't expect some random person off the street to do a proper review of a complex gadget like a tablet. A good thorough review is more powerful than just one guy's opinion; it will reveal strengths and weaknesses that aren't obvious to the average person. For example, I doubt that most people know how to properly compare the battery life of different gadgets. Did they try to equalize the screen brightness? Did they have the wifi radio turned on for one but not the other? How well does the UI scale to lots of apps versus a few? Due to impatience, they might favor a familiar user-interface over an unfamiliar but perhaps superior (if given the chance) interface. They may not correctly compare the web experience of one platform versus another because they are only comparing stock browsers versus the best of the third party browsers that are available. Due to their personal tastes, their review can be colored by an unconscious bias toward the few strengths of one platform even if the other platform has more strengths overall or can do things that the other can't. A good reviewer will be cognizant of which differences are probably important to most people and which are simply a matter of taste.

Re:fdsa

[wesgray]

As it stands now would you recommend the Galaxy 10.1 over the iPad 2 ?

Re:fdsa

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow dude you should try to get a job at fox.

Re:fdsa

[vaporland]

Ah, Marketing... what hath thou wrought, goddess?

Marketing: the world's second oldest profession...

Re:fdsa

[Anonymous Coward]

> Which of course makes him eminently qualified to judge technology.

When it comes to a Late Adoption appliance technology like tablets, yes. In fact, they more qualified than a techie because the majority marketing making most purchases is not people like techies so techies are actually the ones least qualified to judge.

Re:fdsa

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do you have to be a geek to judge technology?

If anything, the "man on the street" test is often the best one and usability testing is always best done with a total beginner.

Geeks will adapt to all sorts of ridiculously unusable and bad interfaces (command line? :)) but the general public won't.

Maybe because the guy didn't even bother to search the market before saying that there are no good news readers, almost no quality apps, and few developers?

Also, the terminal is an excellent interface, it just has a very high learning curve.

Re:fdsa

[Anonymous Coward]

Some dude who's banging Del Conte up the ass.

Re:fdsa

[jseale]

An Apple fanboi, sounds like anyway. Probably got paid by Steve Jobs to talk that way about other tablet makers too. Geez!!

So what

[Anonymous Coward]

Of all the different reviews of the 10.1 on the net why is this short, incomplete article from some-one i've never heard of so important?

Re:So what

[poetmatt]

It's summed up more simple than that.

This is a review on Fox News. That should sum up why this isn't even a story or legitimate article. Apparently fair and biased = let's have an apple fanboy review apple's competition.

Re:So what

[The13thSin]

How did this even get through the Firehose? Guess there are a lot more Apple fanboys on Slashdot then I thought... Even an Engadget review would've been more in-depth and useful than this one... and that's saying something...

Re:So what

[FrellMeDead]

Did you actually expect anything valid or anything remotely fact based when it comes from Fox "News"? For some reason certain people promote anything that comes out of Fox "News" even though it does not have any or very little factual based evidence.

Re:So what

[The13thSin]

Actually, I take that back... go through the comments on the Fox site. The ridiculous amounts of negative feedback on the review more than makes up for the review itself. This should be posted in Idle though, like the joke that it is.

Re:So what

[Anonymous Coward]

Fortunately there are plenty of fandroids to counter any negative comment that might be said about anything Google does. Yep, bad review of Apple product "see, it is all marketing fluff. I knew they were only for wannabees. Why is this being reviewed at all? blah blah". Bad review of Google product, "not in depth. Written by fanboi. Doesn't understand how important blah blah".

Re:So what

[Anonymous Coward]

As for the car analogy. Why going for a half baked Hyunday if you can go for a Ford.

Re:So what

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

How did this even get through the Firehose?

Apple + Fox News + anti-Android == lotsa ads served.

Re:So what

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you actually expect anything valid or anything remotely fact based when it comes from Fox "News"?

For some reason certain people promote anything that comes out of Fox "News" even though it does not have any or very little factual based evidence.

Sadly, I expect things that are remotely valid or fact based when they are served up on slashdot...

I too looked at the Fox News source and didn't even read the article.

Re:So what

[nomadic]

Sadly, I expect things that are remotely valid or fact based when they are served up on slashdot...

No offense, but that's equally as silly as expecting fact-based information from Fox...

Re:So what

[FrellMeDead]

I would hope that /. would at least have a slightly higher standard in general the Fox "News". I'm not saying that this is always the case as it seems more and more stories are complete garbage written by idiots that can neither spell nor actually bother to consider the facts. This is especially true with political stories or anything non Apple, at least for the time being. Maybe Congress should make a law about having a degree of truth in news/media reports and then force Fox "News" to Fox Fact or Fiction?.

Re:So what

[Anonymous Coward]

Thats because you're holding it wrong.

Re:So what

[centuren]

Actually, I take that back... go through the comments on the Fox site. The ridiculous amounts of negative feedback on the review more than makes up for the review itself. This should be posted in Idle though, like the joke that it is.

Honestly, I don't care about a fluff piece or negative feedback. If I decide I want a tablet in my life, all that I care about is demo distribution. I don't mean picking one up in a best buy that may or may not turn on. Can I actually demo one, which, as far as I can tell, means taking it home, using it, and seeing if it meets the expectation of being useful (and returning it at no cost to myself otherwise). That may sound like asking a lot, but I don't think it is for any company with faith in their product.

Re:So what

[npsimons]

How did this even get through the Firehose?

I keep telling people, check the friggin' firehose! At least once a day!

Guess there are a lot more Apple fanboys on Slashdot then I thought

You don't know the half of it. As if MacRumors, or the half a dozen other Apple websites weren't enough for them, they have to come here, a site originally founded about open source and Linux in particular, to shit all over the place with FUD and slashvertisements. It's bad enough having to deal with the Microsoft shills and FUDsters, but at least they don't have as many rabid fanbois as Apple.

Re:So what

[RogerWilco]

Yeah, this article is very bad. It almost has no information, no facts or anything. It's just a guy stating he doesn't like one thing and likes another thing.

Now I have an iPhone and a Macbook, and in general like Apple's products. I'm also a long time /. reader, so I don't expect too much from the editors. But this shouldn't be on /.

I don't live in the US, so I know very little about this Fox News, but it does live down to it's reputation here.

Terrible Review

[Anonymous Coward]

My favorite part was how he said he didn't like it. I also liked how all 65,000 apps were junk. Methinks there's an apple in his pocket.

Re:Terrible Review

[Anonymous Coward]

Methinks there's an apple in his pocket.

No, he's just happy to see you.

Re:Terrible Review

[artor3]

You got that last sentence backwards.

Re:Terrible Review

[bsharp8256]

You think there's a pocket in his apple?

Re:Terrible Review

[Maintenance Goof]

Checking out Clayton Morris, http://www.foxnews.com/archive/author/clayton-morris/index.html, he loves him some istuff. His 'Another day another tablet.' Starting line is pure salesmanship! Nice to see Apple scared enough to send out the dogs.

Re:Terrible Review

[giorgist]

Nope ... try he is in Apples pocket

Re:Terrible Review

[jon_doh2.0]

No, he's got elephantiasis of of the nethers.

Re:Terrible Review

[node 3]

Nice to see Apple scared enough to send out the dogs.

Scared of what? That iOS has outsold Android 2-to-1? That Apple has ~80 tablet market share?

How terrifying that must be!

Re:Terrible Review

[Anonymous Coward]

Can you back those numbers up with some data?

Re:Terrible Review

[green1]

The established market player who first released their tablet more than a year ago has more market share than the newcomer who released their first serious tablet less than 4 months ago, and where many more tablets are still in the process of launching throughout the year... I'm shocked and amazed!

Come back next year (or better yet in 2-3 years) and we'll look at the numbers again.

As for "iOS vs Android" that's just a ridiculous statement because you're comparing an OS that's in phones, tablets, tv boxes, music players, and more, to an OS that has essentially been just a phone OS until early this year and is only just now branching out in to tablets.
For a more equal comparison lets compare phones only (the one place that both iOS and Android are both relatively well established (even if iOS did have a significant head start)) and suddenly we see a reversal of your figures where Android is currently outselling iOS by a huge margin.

Now to be fair, I don't think this is a case of Apple "send(ing) out the dogs" but more likely a case of an Apple fan boy who just hasn't done an unbiased review. But to say that Apple has nothing to be scared of is also a little ridiculous considering that, if history is any indicator, they are about to loose a huge portion of their market share (Not overnight, but in the long run.)

Re:Terrible Review

[Anonymous Coward]

That Apple has ~80 tablet market share?

How terrifying that must be!

If I was Steve Jobs and I'd only sold 80 iPads I'd be pretty upset, yes.

Re:Terrible Review

[thegarbz]

My favorite part was was how he said it was lighter than the iPad, but really who cares?

Well every other review basically fellated Steve Jobs over how the iPad 2 was that little bit lighter than the iPad. So which is it, weight does matter or it doesn't?

Re:Terrible Review

[node 3]

The established market player who first released their tablet more than a year ago has more market share than the newcomer who released their first serious tablet less than 4 months ago, and where many more tablets are still in the process of launching throughout the year... I'm shocked and amazed!

Um, that's what happened to Microsoft.

As for "serious" Android tablets, there has yet to be one. Android fans have been predicting the doom of the iPad for over a year now, *always* at the hands of some fabled batch of Android tablets that are due any day now. First is was summer 2010, then fall 2010, now it's "throughout the year".

Yawn. Wake me up when this actually happens.

Come back next year (or better yet in 2-3 years) and we'll look at the numbers again.

The only reason you say that is because the numbers for Android suck so bad right now. So, sure, "just you wait!" is all you have.

Ok, I'll be waiting. And while I wait, me and 20 million other iPad users to date, will use a fantastic tablet while you blather on about some future scenario, the very same future scenario, in fact, that was supposed to have already happened many times over.

As for "iOS vs Android" that's just a ridiculous statement because you're comparing an OS that's in phones, tablets, tv boxes, music players, and more, to an OS that has essentially been just a phone OS until early this year and is only just now branching out in to tablets.

It's only "ridiculous" because Android is doing so poorly. Android has been on tablets for the better part of a year now (if not more). When you say, "it's just branching out in to tablets", what you mean is that all Android tablets to date have been shit. That's my point. They've existed and people haven't wanted them. But *now* they are better? Sure, better, but still no one wants them.

Oh, but they'll be even better later this year? That's nice. And so will the iPad. Like I said, wake me up when people *actually* want them. All this talk about what's gonna happen is silly.

Now to be fair, I don't think this is a case of Apple "send(ing) out the dogs" but more likely a case of an Apple fan boy who just hasn't done an unbiased review. But to say that Apple has nothing to be scared of is also a little ridiculous considering that, if history is any indicator, they are about to loose a huge portion of their market share (Not overnight, but in the long run.)

What? Apple is afraid that Android tablets will do to the iPad what Android phones have done to the iPhone? Made it the number one phone on the planet, and made Apple the most profitable phone maker ever?

Android phones have been available on carriers and in locations where iPhones aren't. That's a huge benefit to Android that has nothing to do with people preferring them. Also, carriers have eaten a large part of the cost of Android phones (including buy one get one free promotions). The handset market is more susceptible to pressures outside of consumer preference. The tablet market is much less prone to these sorts of issues.

So, we'll see how it plays out. Maybe some company *will* manage to out-engineer and out-design Apple. Maybe consumers *will* prefer Android tablets. But there's no reason other than fandroid fantasy to expect it to be inevitable. And, in fact, plenty of reason to think otherwise.

After all, to use your own phrasing, "if history is any indicator", people love them some iPads, and not so much the Android tablets. Another "history" is the iPod, which without the external factors like those that exist in the handset market, has dominated the mp3 player market for a decade.

What a worthless review

[Anonymous Coward]

Any reviewer who can say "Samsung has included about six apps of their own on top of the standard Android package. Subtract them and you're left with a bunch of shoddy applications that aren't really made for Honeycomb" and then never even discuss these apps is either a moron or an Apple fanboy. Since the review is on Fox News, I'd tend to the former. But I do tend to see this crap when ever somebody compares something to the iPad. One reviewer once said that the Blackberry pad was too small at 7" and then turned around and said another pad (I don't think it was the Tab, maybe the Zoom) was too large at 10.1". I do think Honeycomb is too soon and not ready, but these reviews are worse than useless.

Re:What a worthless review

[Anonymous Coward]

You nip the useless review in the bud !
The reviewer is an asshole blindfolded

Re:What a worthless review

[jamesh]

is either a moron or an Apple fanboy.

... but you repeat yourself

Re:What a worthless review

[Dracos]

...either a moron or an Apple fanboy. Since the review is on Fox News, I'd tend to the former.

In this case, the two are definitely not mutually exclusive.

Re:What a worthless review

[jon_doh2.0]

Well caught, hilarious.

Re:What a worthless review

[Anonymous Coward]

And you got modded troll.

It's mildly entertaining to see all the mod points being shat in full-on butt-hurt mode whenever an Apple fanboi piece--no matter how badly written and/or even just plain wrong it is--makes it to the /. front page.

Re:What a worthless review

[Anonymous Coward]

If I had mod points you would have been modded Insightful... and then funny.

Re:What a worthless review

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

One reviewer once said that the Blackberry pad was too small at 7" and then turned around and said another pad (I don't think it was the Tab, maybe the Zoom) was too large at 10.1".

Have you considered that Apple did a bit a research when it came to selecting the screen size of the iPad and that other manufactures may simply be guessing or trying to offer something different (such as a smaller screen) or going with what is more marketable (16:9 aspect ratio) rather than what may be the most practical?

Re:What a worthless review

[Vapula]

Well, I find the review quite insightful...

When the first Android phones were out, you had lots of comparisons with the iPhones and reviews pointing at bugs and such...
Now that Android phones evolved and got Better (both hardware and OS) than iPhone, iPhone fanboys keep using the "there are more apps on the iPhone" argument... it's the only argument that they have left...

When the first bathc of android tables (think about the lots of asian epad, apad and such, not the galaxy tab), there were lots of bad reviews based of the faults...
Then, we have Galaxy tab and some other nice devices... the argumentation went back to "the lack of apps"...

When the first Honeycomb tablets went out, the reviews were about the bugs and unpolished aspect... And now, back to the "lack of apps" only argument...

It looks like when the Android systems get better than Apple devices, we'll get that "apps" argument again and again... Except that, with the number of Android devices out, we'll see more and more application writer getting interrested in Android... And with the easier access to the market, we'll see lots of applications which will be unseen on Apple Market... Let's give some time and the apps balance may switch in favor of android...

Re:What a worthless review

[wesleyjconnor]

Are there any decent review sites out there? Everyone is on someones payroll.

Re:What a worthless review

[way2trivial]

I believe that is what gdgt.com tries to address...

Re:What a worthless review

[green1]

Have you considered that maybe there is no such thing as the "right" screen size, and that each individual person will want a different size screen?

Personally I think the 10.1" screen is too small, and my ideal tablet would have a screen the same size as a standard A4 sheet of paper. Other people think 7" is too bit and want tablets with 4" screens because they fit nicely in any pocket. It all depends on your actual use of the device.

Now I do have to agree however with the original poster that anyone who says 10.1" is too big, but then claims the iPad screen at 9.7" is perfect is being a little ridiculous, considering that it is less than half an inch different, most people won't even know which one is which unless the two are side by side. Likely the only reason for such a statement is rabid fanoyism.

Re:What a worthless review

[musicmaker]

Oh, yeah, that's right cos linux is such a roaring success with consumers and clearly being a fan of the richest and most beloved tech company on the planet is stupid, a company that went from nothing to sacking the crown from Microsoft in ten years, whilst Linux was sitting on the sidelines doing nothing. Last I checked web-stats for my company's products, desktop linux was now lower than 'Other'. You can trash Apple fanboys all you want, but like most of the other mental masturbation in the open source community, it won't get users using Linux. All the resources of the biggest open source community on the planet, dwarfing Apple, and yet most people today don't even know what Linux is. You are either a Linux fanboy or a moron... oh wait.

Re:What a worthless review

[silanea]

being a fan of the richest and most beloved tech company on the planet is stupid

Yes. But considering Apple the most beloved tech company on the planet beats even that.

Re:What a worthless review

[musicmaker]

curiously I looked at the physical specs of the two products. iPad is 9.5" wide, and the Galaxy Tab is 9.69". A difference of 1/5th of an inch. I was skeptical at first, but a fifth of an inch seems a bit weird to make sweeping statements about. As for the aspect ratio, I can definitely see the 16:9 screen being a bit odd looking and I'm wondering if it wasn't that aspect ratio that made the device "feel" too big.

Re:What a worthless review

[Anonymous Coward]

Can we just agree that fanboyisum i general is bad? Whether it's over apple, ms, open source, ect.

Oh and he just plainly seems to not like, android. Talks up the hardware and then bashes the software without really explaining what brought him to that concolusion.

Re:What a worthless review

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

Have you considered that there is such a thing a screen size that works well for most people? And that such a design philosophy is more likely to succeed than simply following what appears to be more marketable, such as going with a 16:9 wide screen?

Maybe 10.1" was too big in that case when you take other design considerations into account. Or perhaps the reviewer really was just being pedantic.

Re:What a worthless review

[green1]

Have you considered that there is such a thing a screen size that works well for most people?

Yes, and I dismissed it as utter rubbish.

There is no one ANYTHING that is right for everyone, people are individuals who have different tastes, different preferences, and especially when it comes to tablets, different uses for the device.

One person may do nothing but web browsing, another mainly movies, someone else games, a different person note taking, and so on for an almost infinite number of possibilities. There are hundreds of thousands of apps available, what makes you think one exact tablet display size and shape is the best one for everyone? or even for the vast majority? People will use it and be happy, that doesn't mean they wouldn't be happier with slightly larger or slightly smaller, or that they wouldn't be happier with a different aspect ratio. Most people will never mention it because they haven't thought about it and this is all they've ever used, but that doesn't mean it's the best one for them.

Re:What a worthless review

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

Never heard of ergonomics?

Re:What a worthless review

[jamesh]

Well my post was kind of tongue in cheek, but people do tend to mean different things when they say fan and fanboy. I'm a fan of Linux and of Apple products (although I have mixed feelings about the Apple company), but if you tell me you don't like either or both I won't take it personally. A fanboy would, and would respond with a post not unlike yours.

I don't see why Apple and Linux are held to be opposites either... "you made a comment about Apple fanboys being morons... you must be a Linux fanboy"... it's fanboyism that I was poking fun at. Reminds me of all the youtube posts that compare every song to Lady Gaga or Justin Beiber. I don't believe for a second that Linux fanboys are any less moronic than Apple fanboys.

Re:What a worthless review

[green1]

Yes I have... and if you think the iPad is an ergonomic wonder you have some serious issues.

Even so, ergonomics is highly dependent on two things, both of which you are dismissing out of hand.
1) the person.
2) the task being performed.

If you change either of those 2 items, what is ergonomic changes significantly. This is why truly ergonomic work stations are highly adjustable. When you find a tablet with an adjustable size display, let me know!

Re:What a worthless review

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

Are you one of those people that sees a hat that says "one size fits all" and points out that it's impossible? Because you seem to be missing the point.

The iPad is a more ergonomic design than many of the tablets out there simply because they chose the size and aspect ratio with usability in mind, as opposed to choosing a size and aspect ratio based on what's more marketable.

Re:What a worthless review

[macs4all]

Yes I have... and if you think the iPad is an ergonomic wonder you have some serious issues.

And so your "ergonomic wonder" would be a QWERTY keyboard (with its layout specifically designed to slow down typing) and the mouse (which causes constant train-of-thought interruptions, by making people have to switch back and forth between different actions, and constant need to orient the "shared" hand between two utterly different locations and shapes)?

Seriously, given the fact that neural and vocal interfaces are a long way from being useful, given today's technology, how would you improve upon the tablet paradigm? And if we're talking about tablet interfaces, it appears that the majority of the Android tablets agree with the iPad "finger-sized" UI design; so, if the iPad isn't an ergonomic wonder, then neither are they.

Re:What a worthless review

[macs4all]

Now that Android phones evolved and got Better (both hardware and OS) than iPhone, iPhone fanboys keep using the "there are more apps on the iPhone" argument... it's the only argument that they have left...

Here are other arguments in favor of the iPhone. And, BTW, I do not own either an iPhone nor an Android phone:

1. Platform seems completely free of malware. (No "walled garden" rebuttal allowed; since there are still over 5 times as many apps as Android).

2. UI is far more fluid. Android users often complain of poor touch response and jerky zooming and even scrolling. It may seem like a small thing; but annoyances like that add up to an unsatisfactory user experience.

3. Battery life is superior. Android users tend to run too many energy-draining processes. While concurrent multitasking of userland apps (iOS definitely multiasks; it just doesn't do it willy-nilly) sounds like an advantage, WTF good is a phone that runs a dozen widgets concurrently, if it sits in your pocket, dead?

4. Far better displays (except, perhaps, for the OLED phones). Apple's IPS panels are simply gorgeous, period. And I defy you to find a review that says differently. There are some Android phones that are finally getting some decent displays, but it's far from a sure thing when shopping for an Android.

I'm sure there are more, but that's all I can think of in 2 minutes.

Re:What a worthless review

[kaffiene]

Nice rant, but finding apple 'enthusiasts' a little tiring does not automatically make one a linux apologist.

Re:What a worthless review

[badkarmadayaccount]

Measurements have shown that on a modern keyboard, with a good touch typist, layout is pretty irrelevant. Oh, and ever since I first used a touchpad, I decided never to go back. Though I'd try a trackpoint.

Re:What a worthless review

[packman]

No, sorry, no review sites praising Android and RIM tablets available. They must all be on Apple's payroll..

iPad fanboy checking in . . .

[bedouin]

This article sucked even by my nuthugging standards.

Re:iPad fanboy checking in . . .

[Tooke]

This article sucked even by my nuthugging standards.

Thank you for that mental image.

Much more detailed review at Ars

[MBCook]

Ars Technica has a much more detailed review. All and all, it sounds like a nice device if you don't want an iPad.

The thing that struck me reading the review (and they commented on this very well) was just how much work seemed unfinished. A couple of times they mentioned "(blah blah blah) but Samsung says that will come in a future update." The amount of "it'll be here later" on the products launching lately seems horrible. How many features on the iPad were listed on the box and in the marketing material but didn't come out until a later software update? How many were there on the BlackBerry tablet? Even the Nintendo 3DS did this.

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

It depends on how you judge them, really.

On the one hand, Apple is typically very unlikely to promise a given feature on the box and not ship it, or show of a prototype before it is already in production. If anything, they tend in the opposite direction, being as tight-lipped as possible about upcoming plans and publicly rubbishing product categories that they don't consider sufficiently mature.

On the other hand, if you observe the history of changes in iOS devices since their debut, the number of features that started out missing(including minor niceties like cut and paste, and 3rd party applications that had been around for years on other platforms) and "came in a future update" is pretty large.

Either way, Samsung is in sort of a bad spot, since playing catch-up makes what you haven't delivered yet much more galling for the potential customer.

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[Anonymous Coward]

I other words it's a nice device if you have the intelligence of a rock. If you have the intelligence of a normal person, you will realize that the any android powered tablet, phone or any device is an inferior piece of equipment.

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[artor3]

Time to market is the number one consideration in consumer tech. Did the Windows 7 phones launch feature complete? Who knows? They were too late for anyone to notice.

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[Anonymous Coward]

How many features on the iPad were listed on the box and in the marketing material but didn't come out until a later software update?

I would like to see an honest answer to this question. I'm an Apple user (not a fanboy, I bitch too much about them to be one of those), but I can't think of anything that was promised in Apple's marketing materials that didn't ship with the iPad 1 or 2. Apple's product boxes are notorious for having next to no features listed on them, just configuration and regulation-required text, and the iPad isn't an exception.

I know of several features, like more RAM, a front-facing camera (on the first iPad), OLED screens, landscape docking connector, etc., that were touted by rumor sites, but not from Apple itself. They're notoriously quiet about anything they haven't announced, and when they announce, they tend to still hold back.

So while I'll accept your assertion that overpromising features and shipping incomplete products are rampant problems in the industry (though I'd prefer to see more evidence), I don't see where Apple has been a part of the problem.

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[SuperDre]

But if you have the intelligence of a rock or higher you know to stay away from the iOS crap Apple is stuffing down your throat, so that means you're even less than a rock... you crappy applefanboy, you people would even adore it if Jobs would show you his iCrap he had after breakfast..

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[Anonymous Coward]

Clearly you hold the intelligence of less then a rock.

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[Anonymous Coward]

From the Ars Technica review's conclusion: "The main users who will find the Tab 10.1 appealing are Android enthusiasts who like the platform's flexibility, are tightly bound to Google's Web service ecosystem, and are comfortable using Android phone applications on a 10.1-inch screen."

As much fun as running stretched phone apps on a bigger screen sounds, this doesn't strike me as that compelling of a device for the average consumer.

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[Kangburra]

Clearly you hold the intelligence of less then a rock.

Oh the irony! lol

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[0123456]

On the other hand, if you observe the history of changes in iOS devices since their debut, the number of features that started out missing(including minor niceties like cut and paste, and 3rd party applications that had been around for years on other platforms) and "came in a future update" is pretty large.

Apple's approach seems to be to tell you that you don't need that feature and then release it later, whereas companies who can't get away with implying that their customers are idiots have to promise to release it later.

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[SuperKendall]

Apple's approach seems to be to tell you that you don't need that feature and then release it later

Apple never says you "don't need something", they say they want to wait until they can do the feature well before they ship it.

It's better to under-promise and over-deliver, than the reverse... you'll find that's true in all sorts of things.

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[hitmark]

Huh? Jobs specifically said "people do not read" as a dismissal of ebook about a year before Apple launched a ebook section of their app store.

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[SeaFox]

The amount of "it'll be here later" on the products launching lately seems horrible. How many features on the iPad were listed on the box and in the marketing material but didn't come out until a later software update? How many were there on the BlackBerry tablet? Even the Nintendo 3DS did this.

My solution to this is to simply not buy the product until the feature arrives (if it ever really does). Thankfully I am someone who can still think rationally enough to do this, unlike many people.

I'd like to get a bluray player, and there are a couple LG models I'm particularly interested in. But I also want one that supports Hulu Plus. I know support for this is "coming soon". Well, LG, as soon as the support is present and working you just email me and I'm come look at your product again.

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple's approach seems to be to tell you that you don't need that feature and then release it later

Apple never says you "don't need something", they say they want to wait until they can do the feature well before they ship it.

It's better to under-promise and over-deliver, than the reverse... you'll find that's true in all sorts of things.

Yeah, it's not like Apple ever said you didn't need 3G on your phone (since it would kill battery life) or how you don't need multitasking (since it would kill battery life), , or you don't need a front facing camera on your iPad (for no apparent reason). Oh wait, they did say all these things. They especially criticized 3G and multitasking.

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[Anonymous Coward]

Time to market is the number one consideration in consumer tech. Did the Windows 7 phones launch feature complete? Who knows? They were too late for anyone to notice.

Apple was about a decade late in the smartphone and tablet markets. Smart phones and tablets have been sold since the year 2000 or so. But they still seem to be doing ok. Android was even later than Apple's IOS, and it is doing even better than that. So, time to market isn't everything.

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[Max Romantschuk]

All and all, it sounds like a nice device if you don't want an iPad.

This is really the pivotal issue for me. If I pay for a device I want to decide what I run on it. Apple's model is great for a software consumer, but not for a power user/developer like myself. The global market for a non-closed platform isn't as big as the Average Joe Consumer market, but it's there, and I'm sure it has a future too. Homogeneous systems are a Bad Thing anyway, it's good to have options.

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[SuperKendall]

it's not like Apple ever said you didn't need 3G on your phone (since it would kill battery life)

It did kill battery life. Then 3G chips got better, removing the reason for not having it, and it was included.

how you don't need multitasking (since it would kill battery life)

It does kill battery life, ask any non-technical Android user. Then Apple figured out a large number of cases where applications could serve users with background tasks, and designed managed multitasking specifically around those cases so that you could have multitasking that does not drain the battery. It works.

or you don't need a front facing camera on your iPad (for no apparent reason)

You didn't until Apple had FaceTime ready, then since there was enough of a point to it they added it in.

Oh wait, they did say all these things.

Yes, and every time they were for good reasons, that eventually changed. That's why I said that Apple doesn't say you can't ever do something, just that they can't do it well now and are not including it yet.

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[SuperKendall]

Jobs specifically said "people do not read"

Yeah right, Apple Hater fantasy memory there. I suppose at the same time Jobs mentioned his plan to give you a large bag of gold too. Good luck collecting.

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[node 3]

Huh? Jobs specifically said "people do not read" as a dismissal of ebook about a year before Apple launched a ebook section of their app store.

Huh? That's not what the person you replied to was saying. He wrote: 'Apple never says you "don't need something"', and he was replying to someone saying, "Apple's approach seems to be to tell you that you don't need that feature and then release it later"

Jobs' quote about books is not him saying you "don't need it". Here's his quotes:

“It doesn’t matter how good or bad the product is, the fact is that people don’t read anymore."
and
“Forty percent of the people in the U.S. read one book or less last year. The whole conception is flawed at the top because people don’t read anymore.”

This was about Kindle, claiming it wouldn't succeed. This was not him saying that the iPad shouldn't be used for books. In fact, it was used for books from day one.

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[node 3]

The very things you wrote fit what SuperKendall wrote, not contradict it!

Yeah, it's not like Apple ever said you didn't need 3G on your phone (since it would kill battery life)

They *didn't* say you don't need it. They said it killed battery life. And it *DID*. Newer chips use less power. At the time, 3G phones tended to have awful battery life when 3G was enabled. Now they don't. Now the same is true of 4G phones. And then it won't be. Also, 3G wasn't widely deployed, just as 4G isn't yet either. But, just like 3G, it will be.

or how you don't need multitasking (since it would kill battery life)

And it does. Which is why Apple implemented a multitasking system which works well without leading to battery problems.

And they never said, "you don't need multitasking".

or you don't need a front facing camera on your iPad (for no apparent reason)

And they never said you don't need a front facing camera.

This is exactly what SuperKendall was saying. Apple doesn't go around saying, "you don't need this". They just don't implement something until they can do it well. 3G waited for better chips. Multitasking waited for a better task model. Front facing camera waited for FaceTime and simply just when the hardware was added.

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[hedwards]

Which is why they never said that you don't need Flash?

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[yarnosh]

I have to side with Apple here. Sometimes it is not wrong to tell users that they don't really need a certain feature. Sometimes users don't know what they want/need. Software all too often gets bloated by wishlistitis.

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[SuperKendall]

They did say you don't need Flash.

Some things actually are useless, the same way we no longer have tails.

Flash is the interactive vestigial tail of the internet. You can wag it all you like but those of us who have evolved just shake our heads while we grind out virtual arrowheads.

Perhaps Apple will one day do Flash but I really doubt it. Adobe trying as hard as they can have yet to produce a solid mobile Flash, why should Apple fare better? And again, it's simply no longer needed.

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[zigurat667]

They definitely took their time to deliver that second mouse button...

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[Superken7]

And yet, the Nexus S gets much much more battery life than the iphone 4, android having "full" multitasking.

And yet, people don't understand the difference between Android's multitasking and the iPhone's multitasking. Steve jobs told a fairy tale about how they "got multitasking right" while not really multitasking, because apps do quit when you quit them, and yet they can start a reduced number of background jobs like playing back music.
People don't realice that Android does pretty much the same! In Android, when you switch from one app to the other, the other app doesn't run anymore. Its almost the same as with the iphone. You can go back to it, and if its still in memory, it will instantly show up. In a similar way to what happens in Android, iOS apps can save state for when you switch from and to apps and want to guarantee an apps preserves the same state even when its no longer loaded in RAM.

The big difference is: in Android you can explicitly launch a background service (usually for playing back music, downloading something, etc..), which is usually done in combination with notifications. Sure, there are some buggy apps that might start a service and never quit, or leave the GPS on, and that happens less frequently in iOS. But its very unusual, and has a lot of added benefit (see how tweetdeck app works when you tweet an image, wonderful example of mobile multitasking), and you can easily watch which application caused that (you get a "see which apps consumed more battery" dialog when your battery is drained).
In this aspect, I think overall iOS and Android are equally the same, it depends on what you want.
However, one thing I think iOS did not get right at all is that they introduced the concept of killing apps. Yep, the task manager for switching and closing apps. Even if you don't really "close" them, because they are already "closed", its a very inconvenient way of managing multitasking. Performance issues and battery drain related to leaving "unclosed apps" is not unusual. (http://lifehacker.com/5806346/extend-your-iphones-battery-life-by-quitting-apps-in-the-multitasking-queue)
Android's "last 9 apps" (managed with LRU) is much better, because users don't have to worry about which apps are "closed" or not (the multitasking menu).

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[w0mprat]

How many features on the iPad were listed on the box and in the marketing material but didn't come out until a later software update?

Apple is very secretive about future features, will even give many justifications for not including the equivelent that Android already has.....then quietly introduce it later anyway. It's a masterful marketing trick compared of the industry standard "It has this feature! but ... er.. in the next update"..

With iOS 5 Apple is quietly adding a lot of features that have been in Android for a long time, including a copy of Android's swipe down notification bar. I recall it was news when iOS 4 release had the ability to change the home screen wallpaper and multitasking added, this was great news for iPhone and iPad users, for Android users it was a funny joke.

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[Andy_R]

When it's put in context that quote, and Apple's actions, make perfect sense. Steve Jobs was talking about Amazon's Kindle, and saying the concept of a device that does nothing but let you read books was flawed because the market wasn't big enough. The fact that Apple later gave away the Kindle's functionality as a free upgrade for the iPhone reinforces, not contradicts the point he was making.

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[MrNiCeGUi]

Oh yes they do. You say about 3G killing battery life. My 2007 Nokia N82 has no problem with 3G. It still holds about three days on a charge with 3G on after all these years. Apple said that 3G sucked for battery life, when in fact it sucked for their battery life, not for the competitors. They never admit when they can't do something properly and just say "this sucks, you don't really need it".

You didn't need apps when the Iphone was launched, and web apps were going to be enough for everybody. Other manufacturers such as Samsung would just have said "App development will be implemented in a later update". And it will be painted in the press, as it is now, as having launched an unfinished product.

O about multitasking killing battery life - that wasn't true for the competitors, but Apple lied and said it as if it was.

Or about a front facing cam - third party apps such as Skype would have used it, as they have done on other devices. but Apple wanted to have FaceTime ready and sell it as the best thing since sliced bread, even if I could do it on my phone 5 years before. In fact one of the selling points for the 3G implementation in Europe was the possibility of having video calling.

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[uglyduckling]

That's right, Apple lies about features to save itself the bother of implementing them, that's how they ended up with the least popular Smartphone. Good job you've called it out so they can change their business strategies and finally start turning a profit.

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[clem]

you crappy applefanboy, you people would even adore it if Jobs would show you his iCrap he had after breakfast..

To be fair, Steve Job's bowel movements are pretty awesome. They consist of perfect dull-gray spheres etched with the Apple logo.

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[ninetyninebottles]

The big difference is: in Android you can explicitly launch a background service (usually for playing back music, downloading something, etc..), which is usually done in combination with notifications. Sure, there are some buggy apps that might start a service and never quit, or leave the GPS on, and that happens less frequently in iOS.

The problem is, lots of Android apps launch background services that use resources, often in very inefficient ways. This results in very poor battery performance for a large number of users. Even the Android developers acknowledge it as their biggest problem right now. And when you say it happens less frequently on iOS, I think you mean it basically does not happen because Apple makes everyone use their well optimized services for things like notifications and location and they vet the apps before they get to the user.

Look I'm a huge fan of Android and I think they've done a lot of things right, but in this area, Apple managed to pull off much better results. Hopefully Google will eventually be able to catch up or batteries will improve enough so it doesn't matter.

But its very unusual, and has a lot of added benefit...

So unusual the head of Motorola's mobile division said it is the cause of 70% of all phone returns?

and you can easily watch which application caused that (you get a "see which apps consumed more battery" dialog when your battery is drained)

And here is another big problem. Expecting users to manage their collections of apps by manually monitoring battery usage is a non-starter for non-geek users. Expecting them to figure it out after they've already purchased the offending app is likewise less than ideal.

Performance issues and battery drain related to leaving "unclosed apps" [on the iPhone] is not unusual.

The scope of the issue on iOS and Android is hardly comparable. I'm not even sure you would be able to see a visible difference in battery use between killing apps on the iPhone and leaving them running. I've not seen a single actual test of this, just here-say ala the article you cite and someone having more battery at the same time the next day. But you know what, now I'm curious. I've never run my iPhone out of battery in a day and I rarely get below 60% despite leaving a dozens of apps running in the background all the time. I'm actually going to test this theory and see how much of a difference it makes, if any.

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[Anonymous Coward]

So you're saying that it doesn't matter how full of shit Apple is, because the iFags will give them money anyway? I suppose that's true, but it doesn't really endear Apple to the rest of us.

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[Miguelito]

This has been one of the things that I've liked about Apple.. they don't continually promise you the moon, then eventually release something that only gets to about 10,000 ft or so instead. At least not in the last decade plus. Not so sure about the pre OSX days as I was never much of an Apple user before OSX 10.4 or so and my first other Apple product was a 3G ipod.

What you're saying, that usually the "missing" features are only things that were rumored is exactly true. Look at things like the AppleTV. Most every complaint are things like, "It doesn't support codec $foo," or "It can't run $bar." Things that Apple never said the device would do. For Apple stuff, if you like the features listed, then you'll be happy. If it doesn't have features you'd like, don't buy it. Simple. Me? I've been happy with my Apple TVs, my ipad and my iphone. I'm a linux admin for work (and have my own linux boxes too) but the feature set of the Apple products is good enough for me and don't require me to have to essentially admin my devices, or root them or whatever. Would I like some of them to have some other features? Sure... but I knew what I was buying and have gotten what I was promised (no having to send my iPad back for a few weeks to get feature that was originally promised out of the box, for instance). Can't really complain about that.

Personally, I much prefer the Apple way of telling you exactly what their products already do, or will do in a very short amount of time (already in production as someone said) vs the crazy promises then half-assed actual delivery, often much later then promised as well. As time has gone on, they'd often added new features in new iOS releases too. Bonus.

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[DaFallus]

Apple said you don't need MMS. I don't want to get in to an argument about how stupid it is to say that email is a simple replacement (it isn't, give up now). Lo and behold Apple finally added MMS to the iPhone after YEARS of people bitching about it. I'm anxious to see how you will spin that in to "Apple just wanted to give users a superior experience."

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[MrNiCeGUi]

I don't see how that contradicts anything I've said. You've basically resorted to an ad hominem.

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[SuperKendall]

And yet, the Nexus S gets much much more battery life than the iphone 4, android having "full" multitasking.

Really? My whose measure? I can go for days without recharging. I have never seen a non-technical user who did not complain about Android battery life.

And yet, people don't understand the difference between Android's multitasking and the iPhone's multitasking. Steve jobs told a fairy tale about how they "got multitasking right" while not really multitasking, because apps do quit when you quit them

If you are going to complain about getting things right, then do so.

Apps do not quit when you move to other apps. They are not running (mostly, back to that in a moment) but they are held in memory (until an app that demands a lot of resources needs enough to force the app out of memory).

But parts of the app can still run. If you have an app that does background audio, the portion of code responsible for that runs. Similarly for background GPS processing, or even for extended background tasks that run when the app is suspended. In all these cases small, selected portions of code in your app is run, that you designate. So it encourages efficinecy by not accidentally leaving polling loops running or what have you, and focuses on the task to be done. This really is good enough for the vast majority of backgrounding needs.

Sure, there are some buggy apps that might start a service and never quit, or leave the GPS on, and that happens less frequently in iOS

I don't think you understand. It does not happen less frequently on iOS - it DOES NOT HAPPEN because of the way the multitasking is designed.

This is a huge win for non-technical users, and technical users can simply jailbreak if they have some need for an app running wholly in the background.

But its very unusual, and has a lot of added benefit (see how tweetdeck app works when you tweet an image, wonderful example of mobile multitasking)

You can do the same thing in iOS thanks to the delayed shutdown API.

you can easily watch which application caused that (you get a "see which apps consumed more battery" dialog when your battery is drained).

Again that is fine for a technical user, but non-technical people don't know to look there and wouldn't understand it if they did.

The funniest conversation I overheard on a plane was between a passenger and a flight attendant, they were talking about how much they liked their android phones. The passenger said the only problem was that the battery life was terrible, and the attendant suggested he install task killer and kill off anything he wasn't using... the passenger then said "I tried that but they keep coming back".

You see? Even manually trying to keep background processing cleaned up, normal users just cannot figure out how to truly keep a lot of stuff from running and killing battery life.

Android's "last 9 apps" (managed with LRU) is much better, because users don't have to worry about which apps are "closed" or not (the multitasking menu).

How can you say that in the same post where you note how easy it is to monitor battery life for an app? Of course you have to pay attention.

On iOS, you really don't have to. You can ignore what you have quit because it's not impacting your batter life. It doesn't matter how big the LRU queue is because you don't need to look at it for that reason.

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[node 3]

Apple said you don't need MMS. I don't want to get in to an argument about how stupid it is to say that email is a simple replacement (it isn't, give up now).

Where did they ever say, "you don't need MMS"?

Lo and behold Apple finally added MMS to the iPhone after YEARS of people bitching about it.

Exactly. Apple doesn't dictate to its users the way you seem to think. Users wanted MMS, they got MMS!

I'm anxious to see how you will spin that in to "Apple just wanted to give users a superior experience."

Not implementing a feature is not the same as saying you don't need it. Later implementing a feature is not the same as reversing a decision.

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[node 3]

Oh yes they do. You say about 3G killing battery life. My 2007 Nokia N82 has no problem with 3G. It still holds about three days on a charge with 3G on after all these years.

And how much did the N82 battery have to power? The iPhone had a *HUGE* touchscreen, while still maintaining a small size. Plenty of phones had shit battery life on 3G in 2007.

You didn't need apps when the Iphone was launched, and web apps were going to be enough for everybody.

They *never* said, "you don't need apps". They did try to use web apps as the official SDK for the iPhone shortly after launch, but it wasn't because they didn't think people wanted native apps, it's because they wanted to keep the OS secure, and web apps was a good attempt at that.

Unfortunately, it didn't work so well for actual apps. So they implemented the secure app model we have today.

O about multitasking killing battery life - that wasn't true for the competitors, but Apple lied and said it as if it was.

Bullshit. Multitasking causes undue battery drain. Just look at any Android review on the topic, or look into the task managers people recommend for Android.

Or about a front facing cam - third party apps such as Skype would have used it, as they have done on other devices.

And, again, Apple never said "you don't need a front facing camera". Sure, something like Skype would have used it, and it does. Not sure what your point is.

but Apple wanted to have FaceTime ready and sell it as the best thing since sliced bread

Yes, Apple likes to do things better and easier than the competition. This is news to you?

even if I could do it on my phone 5 years before. In fact one of the selling points for the 3G implementation in Europe was the possibility of having video calling.

FaceTime &gt 3gp video calls by a huge margin. Front facing cameras weren't even a commonly expected feature until the past year or two.

But, again, where has Apple said, "you don't need a front camera"?

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[hitmark]

So as long as Apple do not specifically used the words "you do not need it", but instead come up with some excuse for not having it, then they have plausible deniability?

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[hitmark]

Often not so quietly, thank to the stage performances of his Jobes-ness...

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[Anonymous Coward]

It has nothing to do with the approach and everything to do with the competition when the product is released.

Was iOS missing features when it first came out? Yes, but even with those missing features it was better than the competition at that time.

Now that the iPad is the #1 tablet, anyone who wants to compete needs to offer something that's better than the iPad to beat it. If they can't figure out how to do that then they need to offer something just as good, but at a much lower price. So far this hasn't happened.

Re:Much more detailed review at Ars

[macs4all]

They definitely took their time to deliver that second mouse button...

Yeah, about 2 years after Microsoft did.

MS didn't support a 2nd mouse button at the OS level until Windows '95 (certain applications allowed right-click functions, but it wasn't standardized in the OS until W'95. Some apps in the early MacOS allowed for multi-button mice, too; however.). So that's 1995 for Microsoft (and Linux, too; since it essentially didn't exist until then). MacOS added system-wide contexual-menu support for 2-button mice in System 8.0, which released in July, 1997. Since then, multi-button mouse support has increased, and in OS X, multi-button mouse support has been widely supported since day one.

Apple's Mighty Mouse and all their multitouch trackpads also support multiple buttons.

So, if you consider two years "taking their time", then I suppose so.

You might be interested to know that the original Lisa prototypes were based on a three-button mouse. We have Jef Raskin to thank for the single-button mouse. Him, and the usability studies that consistently showed that average users were befuddled by multiple mouse buttons.

Well, duh?

[Gaygirlie]

If you want an iPad-like experience then OBVIOUSLY iPad is the way to go. Vice versa, if you want an Android experience Galaxy Tab 10.1 is a very good, solid choice.

Sheer flamebait article.

Re:Well, duh?

[fidget42]

What do you buy if you just want a good tablet experience? Most people don't want an iPad or Android experience.

Re:Well, duh?

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

The thing is, at the moment, why would anyone want an Android experience except for diehard Android geeks?

Re:Well, duh?

[AmberBlackCat]

I haven't read the article and don't care to. But I'd like to note, my guy wanted to avoid the iPad and was all for Android. He tried some Viewsonic tablet. He had problems with the screen quality and the pressure-sensitive screen instead of a capacitive screen. And other general problems. Then he tried an Archos 70. He had problems with the sound and viewing angles, and some weird overheating issue. Then he got a Motorola Xoom. The memory card slot has an I-O-U on it, promising it will work one day even though the package says it has a memory card slot now. He also said it was slow to respond and had a dark screen. Finally he got an iPad. While it's not perfect, he's finally happy. All the while, his Android phone is flaking out.

So maybe the article is bad. But it is possible Apple has the best tablet, at least for some people, even if they're biased in favor of Android.

Re:Well, duh?

[ChunderDownunder]

HP and RIM are alternatives. Whether they provide a 'good tablet experience' the market will decide.

Re:Well, duh?

[TUOggy]

The thing is, at the moment, why would anyone want an Android experience except for diehard Android geeks?

There are a lot of non-Android geeks who prefer an Android tablet over an iPad, despite the bugs, and the lack of shipped features.

I bought a Xoom after it came out, and I am much happier with it than I was with the iPad. This is due to the fact that many of the websites that I visit have not been optimized for the mobile Safari, and either didn't look good, or simply didn't work at all.
One of the other things that really bothered me about the iPad was Apple's stranglehold over the App market. Yes, it is well organized and easy to use, but what if there's an app that's not there, wasn't accepted into the store for one of their many thousands of reasons they block useful apps, but the Dev is still willing to sell it? With Apple, there's no way to do this without jailbreaking your iDevice, installing Cydia, voiding your warranty, etc. With Android, you can get the app from anywhere, and easily install it without going through a store or having to break the warranty.

To me, the iPad was just an over-sized iPod Touch. It doesn't feel like a computing device at all. You can't even use it as a file storage device without downloading special apps. The Xoom feels much more like an actual computing device. I can navigate its files and folders easily. I can utilize its storage. I can use it the way I want to, and I don't have to worry about the way the manufacturer thinks I *SHOULD* be using it as is the case with the iDevices.

Having said all this, I've had an iPhone since the first one came out. I love it, but I don't consider it to be a computing device. It's just a phone with some extra features. So, consider that before you label me a diehard Android geek.

Re:Well, duh?

[atriusofbricia]

The thing is, at the moment, why would anyone want an Android experience except for diehard Android geeks?

One word: iTunes.

Speaking for purely my circle, I know a good number of people who outright refuse to buy iAnything because of the lockdown and the iTunes requirement. Some object because they are Linux users and Apple's well known thoughts of iAnything and Linux. Others object because they don't want to drop several hundred bucks on a device and then be told how they can and cannot use it. Others just don't want the damned hassle of having to hook their tablet to their computer so iTunes can play with it.

There are some really neat apps on iOS. That said, I do not understand why people keep saying that Android is a steaming pile, or at least implying it. Though, perhaps your sig is showing your personal preferences. :)

Re:Well, duh?

[atriusofbricia]

I haven't read the article and don't care to. But I'd like to note, my guy wanted to avoid the iPad and was all for Android. He tried some Viewsonic tablet. He had problems with the screen quality and the pressure-sensitive screen instead of a capacitive screen. And other general problems. Then he tried an Archos 70. He had problems with the sound and viewing angles, and some weird overheating issue. Then he got a Motorola Xoom. The memory card slot has an I-O-U on it, promising it will work one day even though the package says it has a memory card slot now. He also said it was slow to respond and had a dark screen. Finally he got an iPad. While it's not perfect, he's finally happy. All the while, his Android phone is flaking out.

So maybe the article is bad. But it is possible Apple has the best tablet, at least for some people, even if they're biased in favor of Android.

I feel bad for your guy that his entire Android tablet experience was the Gtab, Archos 70 and Xoom. The Gtab does have terrible viewing angles and the Archos 70, much like Archos the company, is a pile of garbage. The Xoom was/is overpriced and half baked. I'm happy he likes his iPad though it is unfortunate he got it before the Asus Transformer or even Acer Iconia came out.

This to me illustrates the single problem with anyone getting all hopped up on Android tablet issues. Until the Xoom there really weren't any real Android tablets. There were overgrown phones which may or may not be able to make calls. The first real tablet, sadly, was the Xoom. The Gtab was an impressive piece of hardware, viewing angles aside, but its software was crap.

We'll see what the next year brings, no? :)

Re:Well, duh?

[fermion]

This is what many people are saying. The problem is that firms keep designing things that act like IPads, instead of thing that act like something different. What this different thing would be I don't know, but it has to be more different than simply a open App Store.

One thing that is different is the chrome book. The idea of a minimal machine with data storage off site is interesting. That this machine would cost as much as a laptop with storage, and would require at least an equal amount in yearly fees to guarantee connectivity makes it less of an attractive option, but at least it was a good attempt. If Verizon would give the machine away from free with a good data plan in the $1000/2yr range, they might have a winner.

Re:Well, duh?

[Anonymous Coward]

a) Apparently you have never used iTunes on Mac OS X. It's much much better. In fact I really don't get why people are complaining about it. It's easy to use, looks neat and slick, it"s very comfortable and has lots of features. I use it everyday.

b) With iOS 5 you will no longer need iTunes or a sync cable. Not once. Wireless Sync (if you want), iTunes free Setup, backup to the cloud, OTA delta Updates.

c) Most apps on Android are half-assed designed and developed (in comparison). Not my opinion. There was an article about it here on /.

Get rid of you well cultivated Apple prejudices.

Re:Well, duh?

[FrellMeDead]

AmberBlackCat never even said anything about the GTab, just wanted to point that out. I do agree however about most of the tablets available aren't great or overpriced, etc. It depends on what the user needs/wants though in the end as well as having the vendor continue to support the product.

Re:Well, duh?

[rolfwind]

If you want an iPad-like experience then OBVIOUSLY iPad is the way to go. Vice versa, if you want an Android experience Galaxy Tab 10.1 is a very good, solid choice.

WTF?

I can see a "PC experience" or "OS X" experience because there are different programs (PC has more games), significantly different ways of interacting with it, or adminstering it, but iOS and Android pretty much have the same apps, so in the end, you're just looking for the best tablet.

Not to mention the tablet market (of the type Apple introduced) is so dang new that hardly any significant % of consumers know what the "iPad experience" or "android experience" is.

Re:Well, duh?

[node 3]

There are a lot of non-Android geeks who prefer an Android tablet over an iPad, despite the bugs, and the lack of shipped features.

[citation needed]

Android tablet sales have been abysmal. Maybe you are using a different definition for "a lot" than the common one?

Re:Well, duh?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't get it. He ditches the Xoom which says the SD has an IOU on it... for a device that has NO SD, ever.

I'm not comprehending this. I think he really just wanted what he finally got.

Re:Well, duh?

[Anonymous Coward]

The thing is, at the moment, why would anyone want an Android experience except for diehard Android geeks?

FFS you don't buy either for the OS experience, you buy them to do stuff and they both work just fine to do stuff. Mind you my Android tablet does some stuff that an iPad user will dream about and maybe get in a few years or will have to buy some sort of adapter at extra cost or will have to Jailbreak to get.

Cheers.

Pete.

Re:Well, duh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it possible he simply got shit Android tablets? I think that was the case here, either something that never was good or something the was broken.

Re:Well, duh?

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

I bought a Xoom after it came out, and I am much happier with it than I was with the iPad. This is due to the fact that many of the websites that I visit have not been optimized for the mobile Safari, and either didn't look good, or simply didn't work at all.

I'd rather have what I consider to be a better product, then put pressure on the sites to get with the times. I only occasionally have problems with mobile Safari, and each time it wasn't that important and the site was poor designed and developed to begin with. YMMW, of course.

One of the other things that really bothered me about the iPad was Apple's stranglehold over the App market. Yes, it is well organized and easy to use, but what if there's an app that's not there, wasn't accepted into the store for one of their many thousands of reasons they block useful apps, but the Dev is still willing to sell it? With Apple, there's no way to do this without jailbreaking your iDevice, installing Cydia, voiding your warranty, etc. With Android, you can get the app from anywhere, and easily install it without going through a store or having to break the warranty.

What if a developer makes an app you want, but they've decide only to develop for iOS? I agree that such things can be a problem, but it's still a what-if scenario and you can come up all sorts of those. That's where the web comes in, I guess.

To me, the iPad was just an over-sized iPod Touch.

Yet, in effect, aren't the Android tablets often just large Android phones? My understanding is that apps scale up much more gracefully than the iPad's jaggedly pixel enlarging, but that there isn't as much of a design difference to the interface as can be made between an iPhone and iPad under iOS, where there interface can be completely different.

It doesn't feel like a computing device at all. You can't even use it as a file storage device without downloading special apps.

Feels like a computing device to me. As for file storage, that doesn't bother me when USB flash drives are so small and cheap.

The Xoom feels much more like an actual computing device. I can navigate its files and folders easily.

The thing is, I love the fact that I no longer have to deal with files and folders anymore. I miss it as much as I miss manual chokes in old cars.

If I want a highly mobile device that is more hacker friendly, then I’d go with a 11” Macbook Air -- hardware keyboard, higher-res screen, more ports, etc.

Re:Well, duh?

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

But doing stuff is the experience.

What are these things I should be dreaming about?

Re:Well, duh?

[wesleyjconnor]

No ones opinion matters more than your own.

Re:Well, duh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Right back at you. I bought an iPhone 4 thinking that it would be stable, reliable and a good performer. So far i've experienced
- Antenna problems
- 4-5 hour phone rebuilds everytime I upgrade
- a clunky mechanism to copy 4000 songs on to my iPhone. it took me a week when Windows/Android would have taken me less than 2 hours
- Having to use a third party commercial "iTunes equivalent" because the iPhone refused to accept to take songs via iTunes, even when I had 2gb free

So each to their own. I have had NOTHING but troubles with my iPhone. I prefer my wife's Nexus S.

So much for Apple being the better experience.
Rastus

Re:Well, duh?

[w0mprat]

The thing is, at the moment, why would anyone want an Android experience except for diehard Android geeks?

You missed the news. Android phones have been outselling iPhones since last year some time. Perhaps 3:1 now. It seems a lot people want an Android. It was perhaps true in 2008 when the two or three Android models around were designed more as developer phones.

Re:Well, duh?

[Anonymous Coward]

You missed the news dingus. iOS runs on way more than phones. Since we are discussing pads this is highly relevant.

Re:Well, duh?

[uglyduckling]

I'm not sure if you're just trolling, but if not - you have a faulty iPhone, or more likely a faulty Mac/PC that you're using to update it. I have 2400 songs on my iPhone, about 3000 photos and 30 or so apps, and it takes a couple of hours to do a full backup / update / restore. I think the main limiting factor is the speed of USB2.

Re:Well, duh?

[frnic]

- Antenna problems

**cough cough** BULL SHIT

- 4-5 hour phone rebuilds everytime I upgrade

**cough cough** BULL SHIT

- a clunky mechanism to copy 4000 songs on to my iPhone. it took me a week when Windows/Android would have taken me less than 2 hours

**cough cough** BULL SHIT

- Having to use a third party commercial "iTunes equivalent" because the iPhone refused to accept to take songs via iTunes, even when I had 2gb free

**cough cough** BULL SHIT

Re:Well, duh?

[atriusofbricia]

AmberBlackCat never even said anything about the GTab, just wanted to point that out. I do agree however about most of the tablets available aren't great or overpriced, etc. It depends on what the user needs/wants though in the end as well as having the vendor continue to support the product.

True, it wasn't mentioned by name. However, it seems likely that is what she meant give the number one complaint about the Gtab is poor viewing angles. Did Viewsonic make another tablet prior to the Gtab that I'm not aware of?

Side note, I'm posting this from my Zpad which is a device you could call the father of the Gtab and several other 10 inch Android tablets. Can't really say I've too many complaints really.

Re:Well, duh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that the fact that plenty of people choose Android over iOS for their phone proves that plenty of people prefer Android over iOS. The fact that other types of device exist is irrelevant.

Re:Well, duh?

[Anonymous Coward]

How nice, your guy has his very own little assistant who can post his troubles on Slashdot for him.

Re:Well, duh?

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

I've seen plenty of iOS devices about, in actual use. It's harder to recall Android devices, of course, since so many look different. Or maybe they just don't get used as much. My friend has an Android device. Why did she go with Android when I know she was considering the iPhone? It was a gift. My other friend also wants an iPhone (he loves the iPod touch) but is put off the unsubsidized price. People aren't necessarily picking Android because they consider it the better product.

Re:Well, duh?

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

But iCloud is going to be out by the end of the year. That will make the iTunes argument moot. Every iOS device that ships essentially comes with a free cloud experience. I'm guessing Google already offer such a deal, but the key will be how well it works compared to the iOS experience.

Android isn't a steaming pile. It's just that Apple know how, and are in a better position to, deliver a more polished experience. The thing is, polish, when it comes to computing, is much more important that it is on a car in the yard.

Re:Well, duh?

[jo_ham]

Plug in the SD card reader into the dock connector. You have SD function!

(unlike the Xoom, which has an SD slot that *doesn't work*).

It's a little bit hilarious that the supposed "major missing feature" on the iPad and iPad 2 - the lack of SD card functionality - works better on the iPad than it does on the Xoom.

Re:Well, duh?

[vakuona]

Yes, because the fact that iPhones are more expensive is not relevant at all.

Re:Well, duh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps it proves that many people are short-sighted.

Re:Well, duh?

[Dog-Cow]

Android and iOS use the same renderer in their browsers.

Re:Well, duh?

[atriusofbricia]

But iCloud is going to be out by the end of the year. That will make the iTunes argument moot. Every iOS device that ships essentially comes with a free cloud experience. I'm guessing Google already offer such a deal, but the key will be how well it works compared to the iOS experience.

Android isn't a steaming pile. It's just that Apple know how, and are in a better position to, deliver a more polished experience. The thing is, polish, when it comes to computing, is much more important that it is on a car in the yard.

It seems generally true that the Apple devices are, so far, more polished and you're right that is mainly because of their position as regarding the platform. Which is to say their total lock down and control of it. Google may or may not offer such a thing. No idea to be honest at the moment as I'm not sure it is something that would really interest me either way. That said, the iDevices will still be locked down and tied to only what Apple approves of. Whether Android devices go that same way in the future remains to be seen.

Engadget Review

[Nikkos]

http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/08/samsung-galaxy-tab-10-1-review/

They griped about no SD card slot, but gave it a 8/10. I'd trust them a hell of a lot more than Clayton Morris...

Re:Engadget Review

[Anubis IV]

I'd trust them more too, but I trust them a hell of a lot less now that most of their best writers have moved on thanks to AOL and its policies. Quite a few of them ended up at thisismynext.com while they wait for the thing they're working on to get finished up so they can start on it proper. Even so, thisismynext gave it an 8/10 as well.

Re:Engadget Review

[torako]

They give an 8/10 to everything, though (well, *extremely* bad product get 7/10 and absolutely outstanding ones 9/10).

Re:Engadget Review

[Anonymous Coward]

If you compare their galaxy tab review to their ipad2 review - why does the galaxy tab 10.1 have a con of "no microsd card slot" but the ipad2 doesn't?

Clayton Morris Judged "Terrible Reviewer"

[ChinggisK]

"Slashdotters reviews the Clayton Morris review of the Galaxy Tab 10.1, and finds it lacking, especially at the 400-word word count, saying 'I can't in good conscience tell you to go out and spend 14 seconds on this half-baked experience when the fully baked experience can be had for just a few seconds more.'"

No, I didn't RTFA, I just read the first 10 comments on this story and felt like being a little snotty.

Re:Clayton Morris Judged "Terrible Reviewer"

[Kalidor]

That's ok .. the article is on a Fox website. Means you probably followed the same procedure as the person who wrote it...

Re:Clayton Morris Judged "Terrible Reviewer"

[UnknowingFool]

The most I got out of it was: It's new and missing apps. Well, Android Honeycomb tablets are relatively new. They will get more apps later as time progresses.

Re:Clayton Morris Judged "Terrible Reviewer"

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't RTFA either, but let me jump on the bandwagon. WORSE. REVIEWER. EVER.

Re:Clayton Morris Judged "Terrible Reviewer"

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, he definitely is...

The display on the Galaxy Tab is nice, but it has a 19 x 10 widescreen -- that's great for movie hounds, but I actually find it a little weird. It makes ordinary applications just a little too stretched.

A 19 x 10 widescreen, heh.

Of course, as anyone with a brain knows, it's actually 1.6, which is only the tiniest smidgen wider than Apple's own 1.5 ratio screen (all versions of iPhone and iPod Touch), and if anything narrower than most Android apps would be designed for (16/9=1.78, 800/480=1.67).

It's also actually capable of displaying HD content (i.e. 720p) at full resolution. I suppose it is "nice", in an understated British sense that I'm quite sure he didn't mean to invoke.

It's bullshit like this that keeps tempting me to install an adblocker. On Linux, I don't really have to worry (yet) about the exploits routinely shipped through ad networks, and I'm amenable to paying a bit of bandwidth and screen space to support the sites I like. But when /. posts ludicrous flamebait, which can be for no reason but to get ad views, I feel like they're abusing my benevolence in this matter. And it's not a good feeling.

Re:Clayton Morris Judged "Terrible Reviewer"

[Anonymous Coward]

I read it entirely and it sounded like he'd made up his mind long ago. He talks about the Samsung apps designed for the tablet and says something like, "but if you just ignore those the rest are junk". Uh... Okay, how about we just ignore anything positive on the iPad. The rest is just junk. Bad review. He was biased from the start.

Don't feed the troll.

[Anonymous Coward]

Obvious troll article is obvious.

Such a lazy review I don't know where yo begin

[Anonymous Coward]

One more thing for me to disagree with FOX news over. Over all his complaint is that it isn't an iPad and not running iOS. I think by now everyone buying a tablet, which is still very much an earlier adopters market, should know that you aren't going to get the same experience between an iPad and an android honeycomb tablet in terms of user interface. They are two different OSes with different approaches. Overall this review felt lazy. The main points are different OS, different screen form factor and different marketplace. Anyone who has gone to a tech site (gizmodo, engadget, ars, etc. ) in the past 6 months knows that. How about comparing the product withing the context of honeycomb tablets. Not everyone wants an iDevice and that review would be useful, but then I guess you would have to do real work. Also the comment about 65000 apps but very few good ones, shows the laziness of the article. There are plenty of good android apps, you just have to look (I think amazons new store really helps previewing apps). Also who needs a news reader app, their is a little thing on all tablets called a web browser that gives you access to any news website you want. My Xoom handles both regular and mobile web pages just fine. Going back to the main point this isn't so much of a review of a product but a fluff piece adding to the childish apple vs (microsoft, google, etc..) flame wars. I guess given there coverage of the political process it's not surprising, just disappointing.

lol

[Anonymous Coward]

There's a legal saying: If you don't have the facts, attack the law. If you don't have the law, attack the facts. And if you don't have either, attack the prosecutor.

Hmm, I wonder why most of the comments here are complaining about the review or the reviewer? When there were no android tablets, /. collectively pronounced them stupid. When the android tablets came out, ./ collectively held their nose and dined on half-baked feces. Eventually, somebody (google?) will make an android tablet that isn't shit. Or the tablet fad will blow over. Until then, maybe you should maintain credibility and call the android tablets for what they are: shitty half-baked me-too devices.

Just played with one...

[Reality Master 101]

Coincidentally, I was just playing with one at Best Buy today, and I have to say that it doesn't suck nearly as much as other iPad competitors. But that's somewhat damning it with faint praise. The interface is still much more sluggish and choppy than an iPad. The screen still doesn't feel nearly as precise. Given that the price is the same as the iPad, there really isn't any reason not to get an iPad, unless you really just hate Apple. Yes, it does run Flash (and the Flash ads work very well), but other than that, I didn't see anything it did that the iPad didn't do better. And they STILL haven't figured out that widescreen sucks for this form factor because it makes portrait orientation useless.

That said, it doesn't give nearly the "They have got to be kidding me with this piece of crap" feeling that previous attempts at iPad competitors give (like the Playbook, for example. My GOD what the hell were they thinking? Absolute garbage.)

Re:Just played with one...

[demonlapin]

The screen still doesn't feel nearly as precise.

Christ, that's horrible. The iPad screen feels extremely imprecise to me; I can't imagine one that's worse.

Re:Just played with one...

[jedidiah]

Sounds like a little fanboyism creeping in: criticize one product for the same thing you ignore in another.

I would put the main Android disadvantage in general at this point to 3rd party apps. Although stock features on Android devices tend to be better than their PhoneOS counterparts in some ways.

Re:Just played with one...

[PRMan]

The Asus Transformer has the same IPS screen as the iPad, if you want the precision.

Re:Just played with one...

[Reality Master 101]

I don't know what IPad you're using, but that's one of the things that impresses me about it.

Re:Just played with one...

[Reality Master 101]

I think the issue is generally more of a software problem than an IPS problem.

Re:Just played with one...

[Anonymous Coward]

Ummm... IPS refers to the display, not the interface. Most tablets use a capacitive touch screen which allows for a multi-touch interface, but is not known for being increadibly accurate. This includes the iKool-aid stuff......
 

Re:Just played with one...

[jo42]

The iPad screen feels extremely imprecise to me

Wipe the cheesy poofs goop off of your fat stubby fingers and try again.

Re:Just played with one...

[Reality Master 101]

There's more to accuracy when you're dealing with fat fingers than the hardware.

Re:Just played with one...

[torako]

I agree, but third party apps are *the* reason to get a tablet. On a phone you can get away with a lackluster third party app selection, because, well, it's a phone first. With tablets, getting the hardware of a competing device right is one thing, but the really hard part is having a software ecosystem as good as Apple's. I don't Android is there yet (and sadly, I don't think any of the Android manufacturers or even Google are putting up any effort to change that).

Re:Just played with one...

[demonlapin]

Ask your mom about the guys with big hands.

Re:Just played with one...

[timmyf2371]

I've actually found the opposite.

My iPhone isn't a phone first - the phone is just one app out of many I use (majority being data hungry apps which present nicely arranged versions of web content I frequent). On my iPad, the screen is big enough to view web pages in Safari and there isn't such a need for apps to rearrange the content to fit on a smaller screen.

Re:Just played with one...

[demonlapin]

It's just a comment on a device, not Kremlinology.

Re:Just played with one...

[Anonymous Coward]

My wife uses an iPad (first gen) and both of us are holding out for a better tablet experience i.e. a bit more portable (smaller form factor), a front facing camera etc. The first mover advantage that Apple has on its competitors is has got to be disheartening to those guys. Apple has got them beat on the price because they can just order components in large numbers. It has them beat w.r.t to developing and delivering content (not only apps but also stuff on iTunes land). Also contrast the way Apple announces new products as opposed to its competitors. Steve Jobs usually stands on stage with a specimen of a product that is already in production and that is scheduled to be in stores in just a few weeks. The other guys have nothing but prototypes that are still under development or still being spec'ed out. Again not to mention, that Best Buy marketing just sucks. This is the first weekend that the Galaxy 10.1 is launched and there is nothing in there to point customers over to the "iPad killer".

Re:Just played with one...

[hitmark]

How can IPS affect the precision of the capacitive sensor?

This wasn't a hardware review

[brainzach]

He is just saying that Android's tablet app ecosystem sucks compared to Apple's, which is hard to argue against.

A fair review would compare hardware and how each OS performs. If the hardware and OS can compete with the iPad, it will attract the developers to give Android an experience competitive to Apple's.

Re:This wasn't a hardware review

[simm_s]

No app developer is going to use the feature checklist as a deciding point to developing apps.The only thing that will attract developers to the platform is the ability to make money. No one has made a million dollars making software for Honeycomb (AFAIK), so until that happens it is going to be tepid developer ecosystem.

Fair & Balanced

[whiteboy86]

Anybody noticed that text under their logo on that site? The review was like the very opposite..

Re:Fair & Balanced

[artor3]

You must not be familiar with how Fox works. "Fair and balanced" is a slogan, not a description. Similar to how McDonald's could start calling themselves "the healthy choice", only for some reason people take Fox seriously.

Re:Fair & Balanced

[larry bagina]

or "news for nerds" or "stuff that matters".

Re:Fair & Balanced

[aristotle-dude]

So fair and balanced would be where the reviewer raves about how awesome the Android tablet is while ignoring its shortcomings?

Who is Clayton Morris?

[WarpedCore]

and why is this a Slashdot story?

Re:Who is Clayton Morris?

[bogaboga]

You hit the nail on the head because on the other hand, I bogaboga, love the device more than anything that has come from Apple. I wonder whether Slashdot will put my review up. Will it?

Better Review off the box

[elfranzen]

I can read the specs off the box and do a better review then this. this review (if you can call it that) is based more on the software "andriod" then on the hardware.

Product placement

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple has been paying Fox for product placement for years. Virtually every Fox show will have at least one Apple laptop with the logo clearly visible at some point, despite the fact that Macs make up less than 5% of personal computers. Was anyone expecting Fox to bite the hand that feeds it?

The Galaxy is thinner and ligher than the iPad and it can run Flash. That makes it better than the iPad at 99% of what the iPad is used for (browsing the web and playing videos). Who cares if it has "less apps"? Its not like the iPad had any apps when it was released. How many fart apps does your average hipster need, anyway?

Re:Product placement

[Anonymous Coward]

You must have failed to notice that most studios and creative departments choose Mac's. It's just the way it is.

As to market share, here in the U.S., Macs account for about 14% of the market.

http://osxdaily.com/2011/03/18/mac-market-share-around-the-world-usa-15-canada-14-australia-14-and-more/

Re:Product placement

[Anonymous Coward]

I noticed that most Apple users seem to be the type who not only do not actually know anything about computers, they also tend to be of the temperament least suited to do so. They love looking "cool", they apparently see only form while being blind to substance, and they seemingly adore being told what to do as well.

Re:Product placement

[toriver]

Ah, that would explain why a shedload of Google and Sun employees use Macs. Or wait, it doesn't, it's just an AC spouting the usual stereotype ridicule.

Re:Product placement

[Anonymous Coward]

The "survey" you quote is from StatCounter. It doesn't measure sales or active systems, it measures internet access (on sites that use StatCounter). All you can say from that data is that 15% of connections to those websites in the US were made from Macs.

But even if we admitted that 15% of all computers are Macs (which they're not), in Fox dramas that share seems closer to 100%. Why? Because Apple pays them.

BTW, I work in a film production company. Two people have Mac laptops (one of them uses it mainly to run Windows, though), and at one point one of the company owners suggested having an iMac in the reception to impress hipsters. Everything else (editing, rendering, post-production) is done on PCs, about 60% running Windows (editing, stills and 3D) and 40% running Linux (compositing and post). We had a FCP editing station at one point, because it was slightly better at dealing with footage from DSLRs, but Premiere CS5 completely inverted that (it works natively in H.264 and is a lot faster than FCP).

Yes, I've found that "creative types" who don't actually work in fields related to IT (meaning writers, painters, singers, etc. - especially women), do tend to pick Macs. Maybe they find them easier to use, maybe they feel overwhelmed by the choice of PC models, maybe they just like the logo. Creative types who actually use their computer as a tool tend to prefer PCs, probably because it gives them a wider choice of hardware and software, and lets them pick their own "ideal" system configuration.

I don't have anything against Mac laptops (it's the same hardware as a mid / high-end PC), but I'm not going to pay extra for hardware slightly worse than what I can get on a high-end PC, to run exactly the same software. Also, current models have terrible keyboards (though the same can be said about 90% of laptops from other brands).

iPad experience?

[Anonymous Coward]

I hate when people say how good the "apps" are on iPhone/iPad. Sure it's good, but the fact that there can't be an IRC client that can stay connected 24/7 to the IRC server on iOS tells why the platform will eventually be fucked in the ass by Android. If due to some stupid platform restrictions I can't have a good IRC client on my phone, what good is it? Symbian has this, Android has this. But you can't do that in iOS. Fucking hello people this is 2011, stop praising shit.

Re:iPad experience?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, lack of IRC is what's going to make the public at large turn away from the iPad. /s

Re:iPad experience?

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe you need to tell other people to turn their wi-fi capable devices off.

Re:iPad experience?

[Anonymous Coward]

What's an IRC?

Re:iPad experience?

[Celarent Darii]

Facebook chat has pretty much replaced IRC.

Sad fact, but that is the reality now. The number of people on IRC are dwindling fast.

Re:iPad experience?

[CptNerd]

I thought IRC was for people who couldn't figure out torrents...

Kidding. I was around before both, and still remember what IRC stands for.

Re:iPad experience?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm pretty sure you skipped at least a decade history in order to come up with that conclusion.

Re:iPad experience?

[toriver]

I am sure an IRC client is bundled with some of the Gopher and Usenet News apps...

Re:iPad experience?

[porges]

Wait, an insistence that anybody cares about a niche geek feature AND a compulsive reference to an flaw in a consumer product as rape? Marry me!

Could you find no better negative review?

[Anonymous Coward]

Slashdot must have been hard pressed to find a negative review if they choose a half baked article by Mr. Nobody who seems to be a follower of the Cult of Steve. Fox is wise not to allow comments on the site itself because they would be burried. I own or have owned most Apple iProducts (typing this on an iPad) and like them all but reading drivel like this make me want to run out and try the Tab 10.1 just to be able to judge for myself.

Subtract them?

[superdave80]

FTFR:

...Samsung has included about six apps of their own on top of the standard Android package. Subtract them and you're left with a bunch of shoddy applications...

What the hell does that even mean? Why would you 'subtract them'? If they suck, say so. But to just toss out a part of the product and say what's left is bad is just moronic.

There are a bunch of other Android apps, of course -- 65,000 of them or so -- but very few quality ones, and there are very few application developers who are really sinking their teeth into this platform at this to date.

So, there are 65,000 apps, but few developers? Also, he keeps going on and on about apps, but doesn't give a single example of what is wrong with even one of those apps, or what critical apps are missing. Who let this guy on the internet?

Re:Subtract them?

[ChunderDownunder]

Well it's one thing to complain that phone developers haven't upscaled their UIs to a Galaxy's larger dimensions. Some of this would've been necessary for iPad?

Totally insulting to label their work 'shoddy', on the other hand.

Re:Subtract them?

[Anubis IV]

Yeah, his numbers seems a bit wonky. There are closer to 200,000 Android apps at this point, not 65,000, so he clearly got his numbers mixed up.

That said, there are about 65,000 iOS apps designed specifically for the iPad (or, at least there were, as of a few months ago), as compared to just a few hundred that are designed for tablets running Android. That's really the number he should have been citing if he chose to cite one.

Re:Subtract them?

[green1]

Almost every app I run on my android phone has a line listed in the changelog for the most recent version stating "adapted interface for use on large screen tablets" (or some similar line about honeycomb or even naming a tablet specifically)
Most of these updates have been within the past 2-3 months (the first major Android tablet only came out 4 months ago) so at this rate I foresee this problem vanishing very quickly.

That said, all the other apps still work on tablets, and will provide all the same functionality we love about them on the phones, only on a larger screen. So I'm having a very hard time seeing any reason to avoid an android tablet right now when there are 200,000 apps available, working, and providing all the features you want, with hundreds of them already optimized for tablets and more updating every day.

It's the same excuse the Apple fanboys use for the iPhone vs Android phones now, Apps, after Android phones surpassed iOS phones in sales, hardware and software features, apps is the only excuse they have left, and looking through apps, there has only been 1 app I have ever found that I wanted that was available on iOS and not on Android, and it was not exactly a mainstream app (in fact it was a proprietary one from my employer, luckily all the same information I need from it is also available in a PDF, and on a website, both of which my Android can access just fine (funnily enough, the iPhone can't access that same website due to the lack of flash support, maybe that's why they had to make an iPhone app....)

If your only reason for iOS over Android is Apps, then you're in a loosing situation, the apps most people will ever use are already there, and the rest will be there shortly, there's no good reason left to go with iOS.

Re:Subtract them?

[Anonymous Coward]

"So, there are 65,000 apps, but few developers?"

That's not what was said at all. He said few developers are really sinking their teeth into the platform. Having 65k apps doesn't necessarily mean much if half the apps are just different "to-do" or "recipe management" apps. I think the problem is that 95% (or more) of those apps can be written in less than a week by a novice. That may carry to the iPad to some degree, but I think the iPad has a lot more "real" apps....a larger spread, if you will, of stuff that can't be written by a novice.

I don't have a tablet but if I was getting one it would be the iPad based on the availability of one major app; GarageBand.

Re:Subtract them?

[Anonymous Coward]

65,000 apps for Andriod (that will run), not so much building apps specifically for Honeycomb tablet. It does not mean that it won't be good one day, but it is still a little early. Of course (both platforms) there are some just churning out 1 app a day (not so much into it - just trying to flood the market and get money for virtually nothing). This was a short review, the old Gadgets and Games was a show that was 60 minutes long with 4 products being shown (around 15 minutes only) -- there is only so much you can fit into such a short spot. It may be good to get the tablet out for developers, but not finished enough for most users.

Re:Subtract them?

[Anubis IV]

I'll readily admit that I'm an Apple fanboy, a massive one at that, but even I will concede that different devices fit different people better, which you seem unwilling to do. When people come to me and ask me what computer they should get, I don't immediately respond with, "Get a Mac". I ask them what their needs are, what they'll be using it for, and what their budget is. Similarly, when they ask about phones, I ask them whether "open" matters to them, if they want to be able to customize and have more control, and what types of things they use their phone for now. Just because Macs and iOS float my boat, does not mean that it does the same for someone else, and it's my job as their geeky friend to help them find out whatever device will be best for them.

You suggest that it's Apple fanboys who are latching onto the number of apps, and I won't deny that, nor will I suggest it's sound reasoning. Again, as a longtime Apple fanboy, I place higher value on a few quality apps over a plethora of mediocre apps (I'm speaking about my values, and am not making any statements about the various app markets), and I think it's disingenuous of Mac/iOS users to make one argument against Windows (quality is what matters) and then take the opposite side when arguing against Android (quantity is what matters). So, I am with you there.

That said, to deny that there are other compelling reasons to use iOS (just to cite a few obvious and less controversial ones: firmware updates over longer periods, UI consistency across apps, virtually no malware, better/more hardware accessories, significantly higher customer satisfaction ratings, no hassle with task managers, etc.) instead of Android is to be equally disingenuous (which isn't to say that Android lacks its own advantages, because it certainly does have quite a few, of which I am confident you can name many). It may not be the choice for you, but you should really turn in your geek card if you're not capable of recognizing the benefits of an alternative choice. You may want to dismiss the people buying it as sheep that have fallen for Apple's marketing, since it seems you believe there's no other reason to get an iOS device, but they are making their choices for a reason, and surely they're not all the misinformed fanboys that you paint us as.

Re:Subtract them?

[green1]

To start with, I want to say that I didn't mean that there is no reason to use an iOS device, just that if even the fanboys can't find anything better than the number of apps, they're in serious trouble as the general public won't see that as a decent reason once they realize that all the decent apps are already available on both devices (or similar apps to do the same things)

reasons to use iOS (just to cite a few obvious and less controversial ones: firmware updates over longer periods,

Compared to some android devices, but not necessarily all of them, and something that is changing drastically recently in the Android community as Google has started to step in and pressure manufacturers to provide better support for their devices. Additionally you can find updates to your devices in the community even if your manufacturer has discontinued support for it, something you can't do with an iPhone.

UI consistency across apps,

That's one downside to iOS yes, the lack of freedom of the developers to innovate and find a better interface without Apple's blessing. As long as an app makes their interface obvious and intuitive (neither of which Apple does generally) then I'm all for them doing whatever is most appropriate (note: obvious and intuitive are very different from easy to use, something Apple does actually do well once you get past the hurdle of figuring out what they did and how)

virtually no malware,

Android also has virtually no malware, depending on your definition of "virtually", the average android user has never had any malware, and likely never will. Google does pull apps from the market for malware, and you can easily see the permissions every app uses before you install it, there are several anti-virus and firewall programs available as well. Sure you can work around all the safeguards and install malware if you really want, but that's actually a good thing in that it also means nobody can stop you from installing any other particular app just because they want to (something Apple has done many times in the past)

better/more hardware accessories,

more, maybe, better, not likely. additionally most Android devices don't even need accessories to do what the iOS accessories do, with built in USB and often built in HDMI ports, along with removable storage, and the ability to interface without proprietary protocols, I have never seen an iWhatever accessory that I could find any use for that I can't also find a similar generic accessory that does the same thing.

significantly higher customer satisfaction ratings,

Citation needed.

no hassle with task managers

Define hassle? if you completely ignore the Android task manager, you get what Apple decided you should have to start with (well, once they decided to allow multi-tasking, something Android had already been doing for some time), but if you decide to use it you have more control. The task manager has no downsides, and only positives.

I have honestly never figured out a single advantage to iOS devices over Android ones.

That said, I'm actually not anti-Apple believe it or not, in fact as a general rule I advise most non-techie people to buy Macs instead of PCs (in fact my girlfriend is just in the process of buying a Macbook Air as we speak, on my advice) I do think Apple does some things well. And they even made a decent product with the iPhone and iPad, It's just that their decent product has since been eclipsed by better products running Android.

Re:Subtract them?

[Anubis IV]

UI consistency across apps,

That's one downside to iOS yes...

Yes, you're actually very right (though clearly you took it other than I intended). It can be a downside...or an upside, depending on what you value. I'm not out to argue which is better, but to ignore that some people do value consistency is to ignore one of the basics of UI design. There's nothing stopping people from designing their own UI on iOS (e.g. almost every game does it, Netflix does it, etc.), but Apple provides all of the necessary parts, and enforces their use in ways that are consistent with other uses of them.

better/more hardware accessories,

more, maybe, better, not likely. additionally most Android devices don't even need accessories to do what the iOS accessories do, with built in USB and often built in HDMI ports, along with removable storage, and the ability to interface without proprietary protocols, I have never seen an iWhatever accessory that I could find any use for that I can't also find a similar generic accessory that does the same thing.

Adapters aren't the only accessory, but you're right, they're readily available on pretty much any device and the quality is almost certainly similar between Android and iOS. But what about everything else which you didn't consider? Do all Android devices benefit from the same variety and quantity of cases, third-party docks (e.g. speakers, alarm clocks, specialized car mounts, etc.), battery packs/cases, TVs and stereos designed to wirelessly take input, point-of-sale systems (it looks like Square came out for Android, at least), or anything else that depends on the form factor of the device?

The fact is, only one new iPhone form factor has been released each year (if even that, since the iPhone 3 and 3GS shared the same one), and it sells tens of millions of units (they sold over 57M iPhones in their financial year that ended in March, based on the numbers in their reports). Similarly, there's only been two iPad form factors since they were first introduced, and together they've sold 25M units as of earlier this month. As a result, a massive ecosystem of accessories can be built up around a minimal number of form factors. In contrast, hundreds of Android devices come out each year, the majority of which have different form factors, and of which very few actually manage to break into the millions of units sold, while the majority fall far short of that. As a result, manufacturers simply don't put as much effort into developing the variety (including high-end) or quantity of accessories for those devices that you see with more popular ones. And while the Android OS may have iOS beat in the smartphone market, no single Android phone is anywhere close to the sales of the iPhone, nor is any single Android tablet anywhere close to the sales of the iPad.

As an aside, what is the best selling Android device so far anyway? I'm genuinely curious, since I can't seem to find much in the way of actual sales figures for Android devices, aside from some information about the HTC Thunderbolt, which seemed to be considered a major success at 260K units sold in its first two weeks on Verizon. In contrast, the iPhone 4 received an estimated 500K pre-orders from Verizon just a few weeks prior to that, despite being about 8 months old at that point, and likely would have received more had they not refused to take additional pre-orders. I sincerely doubt that the Thunderbolt is the best-selling Android smartphone, so I'd love to get some apples-to-apples numbers.

significantly higher customer satisfaction ratings,

Citation needed.

I thought this one was well known, but since you asked, googling "customer satisfaction iOS android" yielded

Re:Subtract them?

[Anonymous Coward]

The advantage is that when an app is in the background, it's not consuming any processing power at all, unless it's using one of these highly-optimized API calls.

and how does it know whether to run the process that is going to call one APIs? and how does it control that process so that only those API calls (and not any other function calls) are actually processed?

Re:Subtract them?

[exomondo]

Also, he keeps going on and on about apps, but doesn't give a single example of what is wrong with even one of those apps, or what critical apps are missing. Who let this guy on the internet?

Well he does say there are very few good twitter clients (why the hell do you need lots of twitter clients?) and very few newsreaders (again, why do you need lots of newsreaders?).

Re:Subtract them?

[superdave80]

But neither of those statements give any indication what is wrong with either of those types of apps. Are they buggy? Expensive? Too complex? My problem with his review of the tablet is that it winds up being a bitch-fest about the apps, but then he gives zero details about why the apps are bad.

Re:Subtract them?

[superdave80]

I'm trying to figure out what the difference is between "few developers" and "few developers sinking their teeth into the platform".

...but I think the iPad has a lot more "real" apps...

And that might be true, but why did he not list any reasons, details, examples, or statistics to back up his claim? I can just as easily say, "Oh, those iPad apps, they are such crap!" without any supporting reason.

Re:Subtract them?

[exomondo]

It seems he isn't concerned with the quality of those apps but that for some reason he needs more than a few good apps that do the same thing. I mean he's stated it is an issue that it has only a few good twitter apps, how is that a problem? How many good twitter apps does he need? Ditto for news readers. What's next? Not enough fart apps for him?

No sign of respect for the readers

[Anonymous Coward]

This was probably written by one in hurry to go home ... "hey boss! I completed my article, see you after weekend".
No signs of cares or respect for the readers. pure trash

deinterlace?

[vikisonline]

Whoever recorded that that video and posted it on the internet, doesnt know what deinterlace is. Oh well what did I expect from a tv website...

What is the "Android Experience"?

[SuperKendall]

Vice versa, if you want an Android experience Galaxy Tab 10.1 is a very good, solid choice.

What is the "Android Experience"? Since so many vendors customize it, how can you say there even is one?

Or is the "Android Experience" a euphemism for a monk-like desire for a tablet with only a browser and contacts and nothing else to distract the mind?

Half-bake

[Anonymous Coward]

Without Flash iPad is half-bake and half working. Who in the right mind buy an iPad just for game when it already available on phone, and who would buy an iPad for surfing when you can not watching flash in Facebook or Youtube.

Re:Half-bake

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently you haven't used an iPad or iPhone lately. Facebook and Youtube work very well on the device. In fact, the 200 Million iOS device have convinced a lot of websites to have an alternative to Flash (typically HTML 5) that is just as good as the flash experience. I honestly haven't found too many sites ( less then 1%) that I really said, this would of been better on the PC with the flash version.

Re:Half-bake

[aristotle-dude]

Without Flash iPad is half-bake and half working. Who in the right mind buy an iPad just for game when it already available on phone, and who would buy an iPad for surfing when you can not watching flash in Facebook or Youtube.

Without apps, the android tablets are half baked. You might as well just get a cheap e-reader if apps don't matter to you.

Facebook and Youtube videos work very well. You can browse to a page on Youtube and the video will play just fine on the iPad. No flash needed.

The iPhone/iOS system has had a dedicated app for Youtube from the very beginning.

Re:Half-bake

[toriver]

Stop your Adobe worship. Flash is dying a well-deserved death, Facebook will be targeting HTML 5 in the future and the YouTube app deals with the other part.

"Oh noes, I do not get annoying ads on my iPad, it must be broken!"

It's shameful Slashdot makes this pitiful news!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Where's the editorial review for publishing news stories? this review is one of the worst ever, seems to be written by Apple PR firm!!
now I also like iPad very much, but as someone who tried out the Tab 10.1 recently, i can tell you it is pretty awesome device and presents a great challenge to Apple.
The problem is that whether this reviewer from Fox is biased or not, but Slashdot should not be re-publishing stories from such idiotic reviewers. Why not from Engadget or Ars Technica or some other more technically competent and unbiased sources? Slashdot should fire whoever decided to re-publish such sub-standard report as newsworthy story! now I question the integrity and intelligence of Slashdot, which I never did before...

Wait, what?

[raehl]

I've had an iPhone since the first one came out. .... It's just a phone with some extra features.

You make calls on your iPhone?

Don't Believe It

[dr. chuck bunsen]

I have nothing against Apple, in fact I love the Macbook Pro, but this is definitely a biased review. I bought a tablet a few months ago, and I set out for the store fully intending to buy an iPad2. After comparing all the tablets on hand, I came home with the Motorola Xoom. Honeycomb is awesome, and the hardware kills the iPad in every department. It also runs Flash, very well. You can jump on the bandwagon and bash Flash and pretend you don't need it, but the fact is that Flash is a very useful tool when used properly by competent developers, and there are plenty of things online I enjoy that require it. Now, I understand that the Xoom and the Galaxy are different devices, but the Xoom was SO much better than the iPad, that I find it really hard to believe that the Galaxy is as bad as this review tries to make it out to be.

Re:Don't Believe It

[ickoonite]

I have nothing against Apple, in fact I love the Macbook Pro...

Right, but the MacBook Pro and the iPad ultimately appeal to very different kinds of people. The MacBook Pro has a uniquely broad appeal these days, because it combines a pretty decent UNIX (with all the familiar tools that we know and love) with a beautiful and easy-to-use UI. The former appeals to those that peruse Slashdot; the latter, to Apple's stereotyped traditional customer (though, these days, plenty of UNIX geeks appreciate a pretty UI too).

The iPad is very different. Despite its UNIX underpinnings, Apple is not interested in exposing them this time round. In the eyes of us geeks, this seems outrageous - how dare they restrict what we can do with the hardware!? But these simplifications make the product more appealing to - I would wager - >95% of the people out there, so, if only to appease its shareholders, Apple is pretty much duty-bound to deliver the most appealing product it can. If that means disposing of the concept of disks and drives and replacing it with ubiquitous in-the-cloud storage that syncs magically between related devices, most people will thank them for it.

Ultimately, it comes down to how you want to use a tablet. Apple's view seems to be that tablets are good at some things (web browsing, book- and magazine-reading, watching videos, etc.), passable at some things (they've made a laudable effort at porting their productivity suite to the iPad and the iPhone, but it probably needs a little more work to be truly brilliant on a tablet) and terrible at others. For the things a tablet is not suitable for (e.g. development), you use a more traditional laptop or desktop. The Android approach seems to be rather less radical - the stance on Flash is a good example (what use is Flash on a device without a permanent keyboard and, more crucially, a mouse?). That said, the Android stance is infinitely more radical than Microsoft's - Windows 8 is promising to provide an innovative and attractive touch interface (good), but will still run all the existing Windows apps (oh fuck), thus removing any incentive developers might have to create tailored apps for it.

Sent from my iPad

Re:Don't Believe It

[exomondo]

what use is Flash on a device without a permanent keyboard and, more crucially, a mouse?

Why do you need a keyboard for flash? And why do you need a mouse for flash?

Had the misfortune of using an ipad today

[Anonymous Coward]

Handed to me... "I need to get these photos off of here and onto some where else". Sure I say. Easy, use Android all the time and never a problem to do such a thing. I'll just quickly ftp it to my server. The fun begins...

Ftp client, free one? Dig and dig and finally came up with a couple things that offered a ftp client in them. Attempt to install. Wifi needed? WTF!??! So I pop out my Nexus One and turn on the tether. Start dling finally. Install dies, try again, and again... and again... give up on app one. Found another in the app store. It gets 75% installed and dies, repeat, repeat, repeat. So I spent an entire brunch half eating and half tapping on the ipad attempting to do something that would have literally taken me seconds to get going on my Android device.

How is this a good user experience??? I couldn't even get the bluetooth to connect to my phone so I could dump the photos over there and use a proper ftp client to quickly send them off to my server.

I suggested he call Steve and complain. Not much left to say other then YOU GOT SCREWED and he's continuing to pay AT&T for the privilege.

Re:Had the misfortune of using an ipad today

[aristotle-dude]

Interesting story. Sounds like pure FUD since you are suggesting that you could not find a free FTP client under 20MB in size? Really? If you did not completely make it all up then it sounds like the network connection on your Nexus One kept on crapping out before it could finish the download. Blame your shitty carrier or your shitty android phone that cannot maintain a stable tether.

BTW, were you trying to get photos off the iPad? You don't need FTP for that, just email them from within the photos app.

I would guess that your post was pure fiction.

Re:Had the misfortune of using an ipad today

[jo_ham]

Cool story bro.

Emotions running high

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow. I have never seen such a short, emotional review. It's like someone just beat the shit out of this guy with a Tab 10.1 then killed his family with it and this is him getting his ultimate revenge.

Fox

[mwvdlee]

Are Fox reviews any more reliable than Fox news?

H.264 main profile

[TheSync]

Many of the Android tablets are having trouble decoding H.264 at main profile without dropping frames. There seems to be some real systemic problem with these (iPad and even iPhone 4 have no such trouble).

Faux News?!

[Lulu of the Lotus-Ea]

Seriously? WTF?

I'm not sure any review really merits the front page, but surely if one must appear it could be from an actual news site.... perhaps even from a technology-oriented site.

he just doesnt like android

[mshenrick]

it seems the reason he doesn't like it, is he doesn't like android. many people do, so I assume if you like android devices, you'll like this

The Apple anti-fanbois are all over this story

[Anonymous Coward]

"This guy thinks an iPad is better than a Galaxy"
"Yeah, he's completely unqualified to judge"
"Who is he"
"Some media guy I've never heard of"
"He must have been paid by Apple"
"Na, he's an idiot"

Guys, this guy is more mainstream than 95% of Slashdot readers will ever be, Get over it. You don't need to know how to design a car engine to know when a car is under powered. Reviews for the general population should be written by people who are from the general population, not by techies with an axe to grind.

And guess what.... I own a Xoom. And I'm gonna sell it and get an iPad. Seriously.

Re:The Apple anti-fanbois are all over this story

[exomondo]

Guys, this guy is more mainstream than 95% of Slashdot readers will ever be, Get over it. You don't need to know how to design a car engine to know when a car is under powered. Reviews for the general population should be written by people who are from the general population, not by techies with an axe to grind.

But it's comments like these that show that he has no clue:
For instance, there are very few good Twitter clients, and very few news readers. Want to browse headlines? You'll be hard pressed here.
Why does he want lots of good twitter clients? Or lots of news readers? How many different twitter clients do need? His core example of the platform failing is that there aren't lots of duplicate apps, that's just moronic and pointless.

FWIW I have an ipad (first one) and outside of the web browser i don't really use many apps so the platform isn't really relevant to me.

Is it a review?

[omsdiver]

Is it a review? Maybe done in mall in less than 5 minutes. I wonder how much he got from Apple.

Who the hell made this a story ?

[Anonymous Coward]

So some dude on FoxNews says "The iPad" (not even iPad 2, I mean does he even know there is a 2 ?) is the best tablet and somehow thanks to an army of Apple fanboys (or worst FoxNews fanboys ??) this becomes a story on Slashdot ?

  I'm in shock right know. I might cry or I might puke I haven't decided yet...

  This is the most ridiculous trollish, content-empty, unimportant story I've ever read here.

  I mean an Engadget review... why not after all it's a techblog, that doubles has the Apple external PR agency but what the hell.

  BUT FOX NEWS ? really ? then what CNN will say The Samsung Galaxy S II is not match for the iPhone 4 and you'll make a story out of it ?

  I mean there were time when Fox News was wrong (about one thousand yesterday alone), and there were times when Fox and Friends spoke about things they don't even remotely understand (again about a hundred times yesterday) but this must have been their climax !

But you know that Jobs lied

[Anonymous Coward]

The Kindle has been a huge success and has put Amazon at the front of eBook marketing.

The fact that you always think of what apple does in the best possible way really does mark you as a fanboi.

You'd have much more credibility if you said "Yeah, Jobs tried to dismiss the Kindle, but he was either being wrong or a salesman. Doesn't matter, Apple for now has conceded that market."

Re:But you know that Jobs lied

[macs4all]

The Kindle has been a huge success and has put Amazon at the front of eBook marketing.

The fact that you always think of what apple does in the best possible way really does mark you as a fanboi.

You'd have much more credibility if you said "Yeah, Jobs tried to dismiss the Kindle, but he was either being wrong or a salesman. Doesn't matter, Apple for now has conceded that market."

I'm not exactly sure that "conceded" is correct. Amazon is the 800lb gorilla; but they have huge brand recognition as a bookseller anyway. That's like saying that Microsoft owns the word-processing and spreadsheet markets. They don't even have to try.

However, it may surprise you to know that, at 100 million (dollars? units?) sales, Apple is the third-largest e-book seller, even ahead of Borders. Apple has also identified this as "a market worth pursuing", and real-world advantages for people who own more than one iOS device (buy once, read everywhere, and "bookmark syncing" between devices) which Kindle simply can't match, may soon propel Apple to the top spot, or at least a very strong second place. Prices are reportedly much lower on Apple' bookstore than on Amazon's, as well.

Trust issues

[CokoBWare]

Never trust a tech reviewer with a tie... just sayin'... his geek cred is like 2/10 in my book.

Watched the video review

[kangsterizer]

It was funny, but obviously full of b/s - the kind of b/s no one can be fooled by - makes it even more fun!

If I want an Android experience....

[Anonymous Coward]

...I'll just install some grotty old version of desktop Linux.

The 'judge' was biased

[darkjohnson]

The ONLY valid point he makes is that the iPad has better applications - and it's a good one but he also spent a lot of time mocking the Galaxy like you would expect from an Apple fan boy. FWIW: I was excited about the iPad 2 until I read about the camera that was worse than my iPhone 4. It just soured me to the device because it felt like a deliberate move from Apple. (Save the iPhone quality camera for next rev, it'll be a crowd pleaser) I can see Jobs now touting it's amazing picture quality. Not sure why this article was worthy of the front page, I'm sure if you spent 30 seconds on Google you could find a number of other fan boys ranting about the Galaxy.

Passive voice judged crappy headline style.

[BenBoy]

Oh look! Someone, somewhere, has x opinion!

I'd be surprised but...

[kuzb]

...posting crap stories on trashdot seems to be the norm these days.

Wrong

[SuperKendall]

They definitely took their time to deliver that second mouse button...

OSX has supported two (or more) mice buttons since launch. And has always had contextual menus.

Remember we're talking a UNIX variant here.

Apple haters, you need to stop complaining about things that never happened, you end up just looking senile.

Conservative Media and Apple

[RoccamOccam]

Each time that I listen to Rush Limbaugh, at some point in the show, he enthusiastically mentions his iPad and/or iPhone. It always seems a bit calculated and this "review" strikes me in the same manner.

GTAB is essential for technology progression.

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a Samsung 10.1.v running honeycomb 3.0. I have an iPad 1 too.

I bought t he gtab 10.1 because the iPad is just a big iPhone/iPod Touch. No widgets, no tablet formating. Great apps and games, but that's about it. The general experience sucks because iOS is geared to iPhones and iPods.

The gtab is all about the tablet. Widgets, wide screen (which suits a tablet better than portrait) and a killer version of chrome that runs most websites well. I wanted a device that I can use to consume my media without any restrictions. I can stream torrents directly to the tablet, allowing me to get books and other media on the go. Hell it has a file browser FFS that is very user friendly. The 8mp camera is awesome and the screen is great too. The only downfall is that there are not enough TABLET apps on the Android market place and some of the apps are of low quality. This will improve with time.

The Gtab is that good at running everything on the go, I don't bring my laptop when I travel. I can book a cinema seat on the websites that use java and flash, choose my seats and download the PDF, and scan it at the door without one hiccup. I can download the latest movie or book / content and consume it instantly.

We need competitors like the Gtab to make apple realise that they are not in a 1 horse race anymore and to release hardware and software that is market worthy. Apple have this business model where it take them 4-5 revisions to bring out what the market wants by releasing features in a piecemeal fashion with every revision. Great for business, crap for technology. Other players need to out innovate apple in order to get an edge, which forces apple to include more features in their products.

iPad 1 is collecting dust and being sold. Gtab is my choice for now, until the iPad (4 or 5?) that I want comes out which will feature a Retina Display, Widgets and a real browser that can support flash/java in its entirety. Who knows, by then the Gtabs out there will have a killer hardware/software combo that will trump apple's offerings ad developers start rationalizing the android platform.

iPad-experience?

[Anonymous Coward]

Who wants an iPad-experience anyway?

"No clue" user

[vac65]

The iPad and Galaxy Tab 10.1, in fact, are not competitors. iPad is targeting the "no clue" part of users, and the Galaxy is targeting the geeky type of users. And i think the reviewer falls, hard, in the first category.

true dat

[Anonymous Coward]

wake me when the $200 price point is reached. this is what i will carry on my bicycle.

Galazy Tab not Apple iPad

[tchall]

Well Duh! This technical wizard seems to have scored the device based on the "Apple Experience" table... No iTunes and a completely open OS is SCARY for some of these folks... having to actually understand just a little about how the device works is way over their heads... Apparently he didn't understand that you just can't compare Oranges and Apples

Fox News

[Mephesh]

-.- Get this s**t off slash dot

huh?

[kaffiene]

That was the least fact filled review ever. "There are lots of good things about the Galaxy but none of them are important, and besides, it's not an iPad."

Why the fuck is this shit even on /.?