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Synaptic Dropped From Ubuntu 11.10
An anonymous reader links to a story at Techie Buzz according to which (quoting): "When Canonical started developing the Ubuntu Software Center, I knew that a time will come when it will completely replace Synaptic. The Software Center is a noob-friendly replacement for Synaptic where users can discover new applications more easily. Unexpectedly, Canonical has decided that it is time for the Software Center to replace Synaptic as well. So, in the next daily build of Ubuntu 11.10, Synaptic will no longer be installed by default. The Ubuntu Software Center still lacks many important features that are present in Synaptic."
What's up with the purple bass clef?
As long as you can install it from the Software Center, I don't see a problem. Did they need the space for something else on the ISO?
There is a war going on for your mind.
The Debian users are going to be pissed..
So. First there is dpkg. Upon dpkg stands APT, for your greater ease and convenience. Upon APT stands synaptic, for your GUI-based package management needs.
Yeah, I'm just not really surprised that somebody might attempt to replace the easy, graphical, user-friendly tool at the end of this particular chain with one that they believe is easier, more user-friendly, or whatever. The tool being deprecated essentially filled the same niche, and the whole lot rests upon the same fundamental architecture.
I think its a good decision. The public for which Ubuntu is intended has no use whatsoever for Synaptic. Other users are an apt-get away from it, and I think thats just fine.
Disclaimer: I never liked synaptic, mainly because for me its interface rendered it totally unuseful because it was hideous and not really well designed, plus it was easier for me to just apt-get.
I still use apt-get because its faster, but I think anyone can just pick up the software center and use it, unlike synaptic which I think is very confusing for noobs or even newcomers which are familiar with apt tools.
Does anyone really use synaptic instead of the software center for a GUI view?
I normally stick to aptitude, but have used the software center some and am just not sure what losing synaptic would harm. Anything that is only found there is likely software no GUI user will really ever need.
If you want it, you've got it.
$ sudo apt-get install synaptic
Done.
apt-get and aptitude users won't as they don't know how to use synaptic; at least I don't.
Or, alternatively, you can just install Debian. I've pretty much abandoned Ubuntu at this point.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Dude, nobody cares what OS you use. If configuring your OS is so painful that you want to go and use a different OS (which either doesn't let you configure it as easily, or which comes with a slightly different selection of applications, then I think you should follow your dream.
Fascist?
So you think comparing a change default GUI for package management is comparable to a political ideology that believes in the organic state, the merger of corporate power and law and in the philosophy of sacrificing any and all subjects for the glory of the state?
Honestly, what is installed by default is the noob-selection, so a noob-grade packet manager is perfectly adequate. As long as you can "apt-get install" the other packet managers, where is the problem?
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Honestly I don't use either Synaptic or the Software Center. I do it all on the command-line using apt-cache and apt-get.
So far I can work around all of Canonical's crazy decisions. I forced myself to quit using Gnome 2.32 (aka Ubuntu Classic) and use Xfce instead to prepare for 11.10. I have to say that I have gotten used to Xfce and really like it.
I really don't feel like migrating my home boxes from Ubuntu unless I absolutely have to do so. The day Ubuntu prevents me from working around their craziness is the day I finally jump ship.
So uninstall Unity or just use what ever window manager you used before and apt-get synaptic.
Defaults are for noobs.
I started using Ubuntu about 3 years ago with 8.04. At one point, I upgraded to 9.04. Now I am living comfortable on 10.04. Across those three years and three editions I have heard Ubuntu talk about changing it's primary display configuration engine (X/Xorg to Wayland), it's default browser (Firefox to Chrome), its network managment utility (I'll admit, this one needed fixing), and a host of other tweaks. Now Ubuntu wants to ditch Synaptic for the Ubuntu Software Center.
I get that software moves fast, and buggy software needs to be fixed and replaced with less-buggy software. But wholesale gutting of some of the fundamental portions of an OS (as seen from the user side) every 6 months to a year is a little extreme. What was wrong with Synaptic that it needs replacing? I like it. It seems pretty sraightforward and functional.I don't mean to gripe, but does Canonical really need to replace utilities that its users have gotten used to when the original utilities worked equally well (Pidjin to Empathy? etc.).
Yeah, yeah, I can just install all of the old legacy sofware that I like, but it just seems so odd to uproot basic default utilities so regularly.
Motorcycles, Robots, Space Gossip and More!
The excuse given for dropping Synaptic is to make space on the CD, but I remember reading somewhere fairly trustworthy that 11.04 would be the last release as a CD ISO, and the next release (11.10) would be a DVD iso.
Continuing to require Ubuntu to only be released as a CD-sized ISO is a backward step IMHO. At least also provide a DVD image. They've already pushed the size limit of the ISO so much that you can't even use conventional 650mb CDRs or even 80 minute CD/RWs, you specifically need an 80-minute CDR.
These days CDR has been practically obsoleted by DVD+/-R(W) and writeable blu-ray. I wish Ubuntu would make the jump. I personally find it very inconvenient to have to keep a stock of 80 minute blank CDRs around just for ubuntu releases. It feels as bad as having to keep floppy disks around. Everything else I do I use blank DVDs or blu-rays for.
It seems to me a more likely reason for dropping Synaptic is that the marketing minds behind Ubuntu are gradually eliminating support for those pesky power users. If true this is the same massively broken thinking that makes Windows such a pain in the ass to use for anyone trying to do anything remotely technical. I mean what the F*** are they thinking with that horribly inefficient unity interface?
Having the power to efficiently and directly do what I need to with as few keystrokes/clicks as possible, and avoiding being forced to use a series of dumbed-down and limited tools that automatically assume you're ignorant and stupid is why I chose to use Linux over Windows in the first place. Unfortunately the road Ubuntu is on seems to be remarkably similar to Microsoft in assuming users can't possibly know enough to be trusted with a powerful tool.
Any more dumbing down of Ubuntu and I for one will be dropping it.
Are these the opening lines to an unreleased Monty Python skit?
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Things do work out of the box, so those people will not be disappointed at all. They are just not to your preference.
This is not breaking anything, only changing the default.
As much as I love Ubuntu, I get the feeling that Canonical has "jumped the shark".. First going to Unity, which IMO sucks majorly, and now dropping Synaptic.. Even if its still available, if its not the default package manager, the development of it will *eventually* stop..
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
Seconded. I only ran Ubuntu because it's what came with my system76 laptop; after it started having issues and crashing randomly(!), I backed up my files, wiped it and installed a fresh version of Debian (also wanted to do that from the start since Ubuntu didn't have encrypted drives out of the box). Surprise! My laptop no longer randomly crashes or locks up. I'm guessing it was the proprietary, binary only drivers, but what's weird is that I'm sure I'm running at least one binary blob under Debian that is probably identical to Ubuntu (the wireless driver). Oh well; if you Ubuntu users like teh shiny, that's fine by me. As long as I get to play with my 8 DVDs of science/engineering/sw dev packages, I'll be happy :)
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No one expects Gentoo users? The Linux Ricers!
I thought Unity sucked the first time I saw it. It still has defects, but having used it for a couple of months, it works, and it's not too bad.
Synaptic as always worked fine, and doesn't need replacing. But if Canonical is changing it for something else, they need to make sure they don't lose functionality, otherwise they'll lose their best marketing tool — the people who like Ubuntu and proselytise it well.
Unfortunately, Canonical is going the way of so many companies, becoming arrogant and thinking they know best, regardless. They need to develop some humility.
Yeah, you sound like a Gentoo user. Vapid, ignorant and waiting for his desktop to compile.
I'm not an Ubuntu user, but this seems like a good move to me.
It'll make the system more approachable for new users, and anyone who needs the fancy extra features shouldn't be using a GUI in the first place.
Serious linux geeks do package management from the command line.
>If you want it, you've got it.
>$ sudo apt-get install synaptic
No. The reality and the point is that each new generation won't know about it, but will use the new shiny default "tool." Synaptic use will thus go down.
Equally, good software enforces best practices. While the dream of an Ubuntu Desktop is one thing, lowering the complexity of the software installation process lowers the intelligence bar for using *nix, which in the end, lowers the chance that the users will ever get as far as #, much less #sudo apt-get.
Any more dumbing down of Ubuntu and I for one will be dropping it.
If you're worried about dumbing down then you shouldn't have ever been using Ubuntu in the first place.
They want to goto a "Linux appstore" and download angry birds. Maybe even download "20in1 Hack Tools" and join lulzsec too heheh.
..but not 'dropped' from the repositories. Somewhat misleading inflammatory suggestion we have here.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Another "x dropped from Ubuntu" post, another mass ragequit from the hive mind.
Ten years ago, nobody complained about the default installation profile of Linux distributions. If you were geeky enough to use Linux, then you knew how to use package managers and could maybe even configure and make something from source. Now everyone wants their preferred DE and pre-selected apps handed to them on a platter, as if they reinstalled their OS every fucking week. If the default package list is a deal breaker for you when choosing a distribution, then you need to reevaluate why you are using Linux to begin with. And no, you probably won't find yourself welcome in the Gentoo/LFS communities either because they dropped this grievance long ago.
What I want out of a Linux distro:
(1) Something Debian based (mainly due to my familiarity with apt and Debian systems)
(2) Something with modern enhancements for a desktop system (e.g. pre-patched font libraries so they have proper hinting and don't look like ass)
(3) Something which supports PPA or other external repos so I can remain as up to day as possible with the latest software (official repos are frozen bar security updates).
(4) Something which has out-of-the-box functionality for power users as well as regular users (there's no reason why you can't have both). No reason why you should have to live with a neutered DE like Unity when it should be more configurable for example.
It's a pity that Ubuntu is moving away from this. Every version seems to require further post-configuration from it before I'm satisfied - out-of-the-box settings are no longer optimal. On the other hand, Debian lacks PPAs and I have no idea how to get good looking font rendering compiled on that thing. Linux Mint is the closest option so far, but I'd prefer a straight Ubuntu distro for reasons of compatibility. All these changes between Ubuntu versions seem to be less about genuine improvements and more of a test to see what new features stick, and use the community as beta testers. And worst of all, Mark S has shown no interest in listing to the community. Global menus would be fine if they didn't frigging HIDE all the time, yet the automatic hiding feature will remain apparently despite wide complaints.
I WANT to use Linux, but I hate this shit of not finding something I like.
And sooner or later, someone is going to realize that they can fork Ubuntu, remove Unity, remove Software Center and I'll flock it it then.
Ever heard of Mint? It's been out for a while now.
And i'm just evaluating it now. Think I will be making that switch! Ubuntu, finished and not ruined.
Dude, nobody cares what OS you use.
Actually, they do. This is a Linux article, and it's reasonable to assume that many Linux users will be reading it. If you're not a Linux user, you might not care, just like you might not care what color some enthusiast has painted his [car model]. However, on a web forum dedicated to [car model], you'll find lots of threads of people talking about different paint colors, wheels, modifications, etc. etc., and when someone repaints their car [car model], they do indeed get a lot of other [car model] owners and enthusiasts commenting on his choice of color, especially if it's a non-factory or custom color. Some comments may be highly positive, others may be negative, but either way, those people definitely care enough to spend their time browsing the [car model] forum and chitchatting with owners of the same car and commenting on changes they've made to them and other minutia related to [car model] that that select group finds interesting but outsiders would find boring.
It's the same way here. If you don't like it, I invite you to close your browser window and go back to the Slashdot main page and find an article you have more interest in. Maybe the article about the Windows 8 programming interface will be more to your liking, or perhaps some Apple-related article.
A choice of Google keywords: Xubuntu, Kubuntu, Linux Mint.
Knock yourself out. Or at least rush at the Mint guys and make sure they don't get rid of synaptic as well.
Note: I was 13 when I wrote most of this. Take with several grains of salt.
i never used synaptic. i used apt-get and software centre when i was lazy or browsing for shit.
if you need anything more advanced than software centre, you really should be using aptitude.
That's because metamoderation has been broken for quite some time and nobody does it anymore. So bad moderators don't get spanked.
With regards to your comment "just use Debian" I use Ubuntu because they generally have good defaults and I spend less time in /etc/. That's about it. Otherwise 10.04LTS and Stable are nearly interchangeable.
--
BMO
Um, I'm sorry. Is the Linux community still under the impression that any of their distros are used by noobs? Sillly Linux folks.
No, it's silly Canonical folks. Most of the rest of us Linux users know that most noobs don't bother with Linux unless a relative installs and supports it for them. After all, how many regular PC users install Windows on their own PC? Almost none: it comes preloaded on their Dell or HP, and if something goes seriously wrong, they call Geek Squad to come fix it for them.
The Canonical people have this fantasy that they're going to get all the new computer users of the world to buy computers and adopt Ubuntu, but I don't think it's going to work out for them unfortunately.
i don't use it for teh shiny, i use it to show off to my OSX and XP using friends - a 3 year old netbook besting their new toys is always a laugh.
Why should we care if users get as far as $ sudo apt-get? The point is that they're on the platform. You can't ask for both mass-market acceptance and exposed complexity. If you keep the exposed complexity, the mass market won't want it. At least Shuttleworth seems to get this. I know that everyone's down on Ubuntu lately for "changing things" but, honestly, if they've done due diligence and run these changes past some focus groups full of people who haven't used Linux before, they're probably going to get more adoption out of the changes.
If the UI is simpler, it's still *possible* to get the old UI back, and they get more adoption out of it, that's awesome. It means more market penetration for Linux.
Users who want more power will search the web and find tutorials. The tutorials will tell them about other software or the command line, and they'll either retain and explore, or they'll give up. Either way, many of these users are the ones who wouldn't have tried Linux before Ubuntu and, as Ubuntu keeps getting simpler to use, they're the ones who will recommend Ubuntu to all the people that we haven't reached.
I'm fine with Ubuntu being "dumbed down" as long as I can smarten it up from the command line.
P.S. Why would you bother to sudo from a root shell? (# is root, $ is user)
The Linux Mint guys still put the window buttons on the right, the start button on the bottom and use gnome 2.32.
The folks using linux mint like new stuff(flash, nvidia drivers) but they dont just embrace whatever Ubuntu fad comes down the pike.
I switched to Kubuntu from Ubuntu back at 9.10. I kept using Synaptic until just recently.
Yeah, I hate when everything I want to use isn't installed by default. Having to run one command to install the stuff I want is unacceptable.
Canonical has made many drastic changes in the last few releases. The Software Center has been around for a while now. "Add/Remove Software" (gnome-app-install) was, arguably, replaced a little earlier than it should have. You might have complained or heard others complain about the switch. At that point of time, I felt that add/remove should have remained the default for one more cycle. However, the Software Center improved very rapidly and it wasn't very long after the switch that it was hard to argue against removing "Add/Remove Software". The Software Center is now miles ahead of its predecessor.
Unity seems to be following the same course. Many had argued waiting at least one more release cycle before making Unity default. However, I think that Canonical sees this as an opportunity understand the direction in which people want to see Unity go, giving Canonical enough time to iron out issues and make Unity acceptable, at the very least, if not elegant and beautiful by the time they release the LTS.
Canonical seems to be focusing its efforts on getting finished products into LTS releases by prematurely including (and making default) new software and concepts in regular releases giving them a larger audience to test their proposed ideas. Come December/January, Canonical will have a very good idea as where Unity, the Software Center and their other new products are going to be so that they can be confident of making 12.04 a polished and finished release. While this may not work out exactly as expected, it appears as if this is the basic idea behind their planning and development.
Why? They still have "dselect" with its intuitive interface (s /), not to mention this "aptitude" thing that I keep hearing about.
Why do we need all these different GUIs anyway?
As long as I get to play with my 8 DVDs of science/engineering/sw dev packages, I'll be happy :)
As a serious request, please elaborate a little on some of these packages and their use and availability under Debian vs. Ubuntu.
I am not a crackpot.
Luxury! When I were a lad, we had to hand code the packages in byte by byte, and t'Gaffer would delete the lot if we got a byte wrong!
There are some who call me
The problem is that Canonical is once again trying to pass off bulky and unfinished crap (Ubuntu Software Center) as a replacement for something stable, full-featured, and useful (Synaptic). The same thing happened with Unity, hence the comparison. After another release or two of Ubuntu, I'll be very surprised if they keep it in the Canonical-supported "main" repository instead of pushing it to universe.
It's interesting to read the responses to this post... the consensus of which seems to be, "Who cares? You can always install it".
In the past, I've seen Slashdot go ape-shit because the window controls were moved from the right to the left. People are incensed about an auto-hide launcher bar on the left side of the screen. Then Canonical basically replaces their decent apt wrapper with a dumbed-down version of the Apple App Store... and people barely shrug.
I just don't get it anymore. I'm in my mid-30's, and feel like an old man. I simply don't understand OS or UI design best practices in the year 2011, or how people today come about the preferences that they have. Personally, I'm the opposite from the majority here. Bring on the appley-googley imitation crap if you must... I adjust pretty quickly to minor cosmetic changes intended to keep things fresh. However, I get frustrated by rapid changes to the defaults of actual system management.
If there were a distribution which leveraged Ubuntu's excellent apt repository, yet was intended for power users (rather than dumbed-down even further like Mint), then I would jump ship in 5 minutes. Yeah, I can change all this stuff manually in Ubuntu... but defaults matter. Why would I want to spend a freaking hour trying to make every new install act like Hardy Heron?
Piss on the people who have been using the distro forever a little more, why doncha?
This signature has Super Cow Powers
I am not upgrading Ubuntu from 10.04 anymore, I am a gentooer henceforth, its getting too bureaucratic.
I could stand Unity, but this is too much.
Another step closer to every OS being Cell-Phoned.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Obligatory XKCD reference. Hand coding? we had to use butterflies....theyd flap their wings to cause atmospheric distrubances to focus cosmic rays on the single bit at a time on the platter we wanted to flip.
http://xkcd.com/378/
This bothers me for so many obvious reasons. Linux, at least in my opinion, shouldn't be "easy" to use, at least not in the traditional sense of the word. Using Linux should require a degree of technical skill, even the kind that can be gleaned from simply using `man`. I really don't want to see an influx of people who think they're "cool" because they run Ubuntu. I guess there's always UNIX, *BSD and the Gentoo- and Arch-like distributions, but... eh. It just doesn't feel right.
"...the number of UNIX installations has grown to 10, with more expected..." - Dennis Ritchie/Ken Thompson, 1972
We still run 8.04 on client boxes here.
8.04 is the last Ubuntu release where EVERYTHING works, right out of the box, even on old hardware with Intel onboard graphics chips.
Exactly... Why the keep replacing (not just highlighting) stable apps with half baked flashy apps, I do not understand. I am still on 10.04, and have not seen a reason to move yet. (And before it starts, there are firefox and LibreOffice repos for 10.04)
Out of curiosity, what kind of things do you find you need to tweak around /etc in Debian? I don't recall spending any time there during or after my last install (about six months ago, I think). All defaults seem to be sane, partitions auto-mount from your DE of choice, and X doesn't need a config anymore.
Fell in love with it the first day[1].
You must still be in dating phase believing that her binaries will be just a little faster than everyone else’s.
When you actually move in you will find that the maintenance is just too much and not worth the effort.
Seriously for a Ubuntu user to go to gentoo over default options you fail to realise just how shitty the package manger/repos are and spend ages using a package just to gain back the time you lost compiling it. If you really want to compile for your instruction set get the kernel sources and use /usr/local.
What does surprise me is the vitriol that's being spewed about it here. If you feel a compelling need to think of yourself as some sort of hardcore Linux geek, just get yourself another distro. As a hardcore Linux geek, you should know they're out there (you might even know where to get them). Ubuntu is not intended for the hardcore user (it's hardly a bare-bones distro) - quite the opposite, in fact.
And I have to admit I'm confused by all the Linux wizards here who are so hardcore they feel they must have Synaptic, but are simultaneously outraged by the fact that they have to type 'sudo apt-get install' into a terminal in order to get it.
I guess I could excuse dropping Synaptic if it weren't part of a disturbing trend.
The point is: defaults matter.
http://www.useit.com/alertbox/defaults.html
This was supposed to be the entire point of Ubuntu in the first place. If your preferred configuration is just a setting away, then why not just run Debian and make the 10 or 20 adjustments you need?
Ubuntu forums discussion on defaults
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
>what kind of things do you find you need to tweak around /etc in Debian?
For me?
Wireless and sound. Those are the two big ones. And then a few minor things which are just config stuff like where to put sshd and such, but that's in either Debian or Ubuntu.
Otherwise I'd just go with straight Debian.
--
BMO
The squashfs image that is casper/filesystem.squashfs is already compressed with LZMA. Even initrd is compressed with LZMA. I would guess compressing the whole iSO would not shrink it by much more...
Mint would be perfect for you. Everything you just asked for, plus full ubuntu package and ppa compatibility. 11 though, not debian edition.
"People don't want to learn linux" hasn't been a valid excuse since '03.
There is a masterplan at work here.
The casual and noob users will be offered something really simple, with everything set up by default - so they can get accustomed to new platform. This is a ticket in. When you get more experienced, than you can start tweaking it or move to another distro.
Dumb it down even more. Remove anything than 3-year-old can't use. 2 apps for music playback? One to many. Video player? Works with any kind of format that you can throw at it. If not, do a next->next->finish upgrade. More games by default. Simplify, simplify, simplify. Rinse. Repeat.
Goal? Make it more easy than Mac to use. SCSB (Start Computer, Shutdown Brain) users are a market to aim for
I actually benchmarked stuff. Not decent benchmarking, but good old reading FPS and counting start times etc. There were cases of 4x more efficiency. Memory usage, you say? Sometimes I'm below 100MB whereas in my Ubuntu counterpart I had no choice but to stay above 500MB because of all kinds of crap that I could not for some reason just put away. I don't run Gnome or KDE or Shit-Me-E.
Who said I used default options? Who said I'm just "another" dumb Ubuntu user? When did we start assuming the ignorance of other people? Last time I tried to compile Ubuntu's kernel it all got screwed because of proprietary drivers and whatnot, plus that terrible build system. WIth Gentoo it just worked great, because it made all sense. Every instruction I read from the manual was obvious. I slowly watched the computer build itself, from multiple builds of the kernel (as I included more features and, well, got used to the Gentoo world) to important apps, to X, to fbpanel+cmanfm+the apps I coded, with only the components I selected, with all my specific build instructions and optimizations. Things just seem faster in my Gentoo computers, because, in Ubuntu, I really could never fully strip it down to what I needed -- and, after all, it wouldn't be Ubuntu then, it'd be a custom compiled kernel with dpkg and APT.
I don't actually feel like it's slow when compiling packages. Sure, it's *slower*, but most times (I say most but up until today it's been everytime) it builds a faster package. Moreover, I'm not all about the speed -- it's an ethical question: To compile the code itself implies I have it with me, implies I can modify it, implies I can be a lunatic like RMS. Sure, there's apt-source, but emerge gives me the real deal as I watch it happen, I don't know, it feels good. Added to that, a distro oriented for the programmer is bound to be more appropriate to me than a distro oriented by...you find a word for those guys. I was already thinking of leaving Ubuntu, but when they started messing around with all the default apps and etc, I just moved away. I didn't update for a year, so my last Ubuntu Version was 9.10 (and that was because I upgraded to 9.04 to find out everything was fucked up. Took me 2 days to manage my way out of that situation, with fucked up modules overheating the computer, or a kernel version whose network driver didn't work, forcing me to bounce between kernel versions and all kinds of shit, I still don't know how I managed to upgrade to 9.10).
Ubuntu might be right for a lot of people, but it isn't for me anymore. It helped me when I made the transition to UNIXy Operating Systems (best thing I ever did), but now I need the raw power in my hands -- and if I screw it all I can blame it on myself.
Have you heard about SoylentNews?
Well it is openly the goal of canonical after all...
It worried me a little when I read the title, but then I remembered that I hardly used synaptic. Most of the time I use apt-get, and sometimes the Software Center when I feel like browsing for random stuff (mostly games...)
As for Unity, I'll watch how it evolve. I like Gnome somewhat, but I like to see think change over time. For the time being, Unity as some interesting features but the inability to change anything of it is really annoying. And it crash now and then... With chance it will change for the good... or not.
Still Canonical don't seems to focus that much on stability and too much on look and simplicity (meaning less stuffs you can do out of the box, most of the time...). Looking good and being simple isn't bad, but we don't need a new Windows or OSX with less supports for commercial software... Not being able to use Steam to play my Game keeps me on my windows vista (sic) partition way to often. (And god, I hate Steam... ) I wouldn't even look at a vista without that.
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Right... I'm a long-time Ubuntu user and I love it, but it doesn't best either Windows or OS X in the majority of cases people care about. A few compiz desktop effects don't change any of that.
Of course Ubuntu is bloated and uses heaps of memory but there other lower memory usage distros that you still don’t need to compile. Though whenever you are comping meaningful your memory usage goes well above 500 MB (i had to redo my partitioning because my netbook could not compile gcc with 1 GB ram) and will overheat stuff.
I would suggest that arch linux delivers similar/indistinguishable (until you apply a benchmark anyway) performance if you recompile the kernel for your hardware.
I was saying gentoo is a phase you go though with Linux: you lean some of how Linux fits together you get to compile a kernel just for your hardware and compile Linux from source but after portage breaks for the fifth time trying to so you cant install a package you want and you have to wait for that package you want now you have to ask if its worth it. The main issue I have with source based disros is either you have crap hardware and it kills your computer comping it or your hardware is good and you don't need performance improvement.
P.S. this is /. no one expects and may not care you to write paragraphs to defend two flippant lines and a sentence defending them.
"The Ubuntu Software Center still lacks many important features that are present in Synaptic"
Im pretty sure Synaptic will be only an "apt-get" away. Lets not forget the target audience Ubuntu is aiming for here. Ubuntu is definitely the way in
for new Linux adopters and so the more complicated software such as synaptic will be replaced with newbie friendly stuff.
Old hands like me and probably a fair percentage of slashdot readers are also using ubuntu because they have gone through the gentoo / slackware phase , customising or rolling their own linux. We just want something that works (tm) gives us all the linux goodness we have come to love. Its no big deal for us to
"sudo apt-get install synaptic" really is it? Every one wins linux newbies get something they can get along with. and us Linux afficionados get to have our cake and eat it.
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
ohhh you are talking about the software center; i thought you mean synaptics.
Non-noobs use apt directly.
Can you type sudo apt-get install synaptic? I love synaptic, the Software Center can not compare to it`s features. Please Canonical, leave it in the repository and then it is available when someone does want it.
liberare massarum ex ignorantia, clausa descendit molestie.
Then there is a different class of users who want complete control over their package management, including the ability to install random developer libraries, add new sources and so on. These people like synaptic because it is a searchable full list of available packages. Someone looking to install headers for something, or to figure out another package's dependencies can do it from a nice GUI. I realise the second group of people are probably capable of figuring out how to install Synaptic for themselves.
Therefore I think it is reasonable for Ubuntu to dump Synaptic but recognize it MUST be offered from their app store also through the command line, e.g. apt-get install synaptic. I also think this must come with a concession (or perhaps a reality check) from Ubuntu - fix Unity. Unity's proto-app store integration is fucking horrible and it needs to be configurable and preferably rewritten. At the minute Unity makes it hard enough to find the apps on my box without the added insult of recommending apps from the store that I was never looking for in the first place and eating up screen space for this useless info. Unity needs to let me disable this - I want want to browse apps from an app store I want an explicit, discrete button / icon I can click on for this purpose. Otherwise get out of my face and stop phoning home.
Or Linux Mint. Why is nobody in these threads suggesting Linux Mint? It is the Number 3 OS in the world by some metrics now, even over Ubuntu. It's easy to use, clean, fast, stable, reliable, and the community is AWESOME.
"Mint and Forget" is what myself and some of my IT colleagues are saying every day now.
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
Yeah, my computers all have >=1.7GB of RAM, but I never overheated while compiling. I do, however, overheat during normal Ubuntu usage in the same laptop -- initially it was caused by a kernel bug, but now it's just sucky hardware being torn appart by Ubuntu (who knows why).
Fortunately, I haven't had any problems with portage. I've had some packages it didn't have or versions it didn't provide, but I solved that by fetching the sources myself and compiling them. Sure, probably Arch Linux would allow me the same level of extreme customization but for a programmer like me it just feels right to compile, build and create everything from scratch. Let's not be dicotomatic, it doesn't all boil down to "crappy hardware -> death compiling" or "good hardware -> useless performance improvement": There are a lot of middle cases, IMO.
I guess each user has his/her own distro, but I like Gentoo and, among the eight distros I've tried it's certainly the best according to my needs.
Have you heard about SoylentNews?
As long as you have a shell with apt-get, you don't need anything gui, correct?
On one hand, I understand that they want to move forward. On the other, there are certain tools which you want to keep. Synaptic the most used system tool in my gui toolbag.
On the other hand, I don't want a fucking Mac, completely divorced from the OS. If I want a fucking Mac, I'll buy a fucking Mac. If I'm going to INSTALL a new OS on a computer, don't assume I'm a noob. If you are installing a 3rd party OS, sure, make the software center front and center. But assume I have a fucking clue how to burn an ISO, or netboot, setup my own wifi for updates, etc. Synaptic is one of the reasons I use Ubuntu! I found other systems to be lacking. And I honestly use Software Center. But I also like customizing, and build packages, and use synaptic to download dependencies quickly, without looking up a name or installing crap with a lib-* apt-get command.
And if you don't like customizing, WTF are you doing with Ubuntu in the first place? And if this is for OEM installs, WTF do you need to remove a package that they are perfectly capable of removing themselves? We're talking about a DOWNLOADED operating system. Make it as user friendly as you want, and quibble over LibreOffice, but don't start removing tools. Are you going to remap any request for nano or pico to gedit now?
Sorry, I just find this bullshit. Unlike Unity, which I understand, I don't understand this at all. It's not a space issue, and because of the new interface, if I type "Software", Software Center is already the number one choice, not Synaptic. And it adds an additional step for me on installs.
I already have stopped at 10.04 for corporate installs. Now I'll be stopping at 11.04 on personal installs. I'm sorry, but Software Center is NOT SUFFICIENT! It is a step BACKWARDS!
I8-D
Being increasingly unhappy with the quality of and direction of Ubuntu development, this may be the final straw.
Just remember; change for the sake of change is not a good thing.
On top of that, hard drives are much, much faster, you can rewrite them millions of times, and can store 1TB or so on a single drive, instead of tiny 25GB chunks requiring you to swap out media.
So if you wanted to send 10 to 20 GB of data to a family member, how would you do it? Buy a USB flash drive and mail that? Buy a USB hard drive and hope he or she mails it back? Send it over the Internet and reimburse him or her for huge data transfer overages billed by the ISP? Mailing a BD or a few DVDs starts to sound good here.
These days CDR has been practically obsoleted by DVD+/-R(W)
Say your ISP lets you transfer 5 GB per month. Now are you going to want to download a 0.7 GB CD image or a 4 GB DVD image?
I use Ubuntu. I'm giving Unity a chance. Saying you're quitting is not a discussion - it's going nowhere. No linux fans are going to care about that.
That's at least a 10 minute argument.
No one ever said it was a discussion, it was just an opinion offered. As part of the Linux community, I like to know what others are thinking, or if they're jumping off a sinking ship. The parent never said he was quitting Linux; he's probably quitting Ubuntu though. But nothing wrong with that; there's literally dozens of other distros out there to choose from. From what I'm reading, lots of Ubuntu users are looking for a new distro that suits them better. Many seem to be migrating to Mint, for good reason: it's based on Ubuntu, but doesn't use either Unity or Gnome3.
If you're giving Unity a chance, then that's fine. But that doesn't make you any better than someone else who's had enough and is looking for something else instead of sticking with something that's changing in a direction he doesn't like.
I am a huge Ubuntu-basher (as a cursory examination of my comment history will show), but I disagree with you here. Synaptic fucking sucks. Of the two uses for a package manager (browsing unknown packages and installing known packages), Synaptic does neither well. It's a really terrible interface for browsing, and if you're not browsing and already know what you want to install, why bother using Synaptic at all? Software Center is a vastly superior browsing interface.
Hey, I finally got my first freak! Took you long enough!
Unity is bad enough by itself! It makes it extremely difficult to get to the tools you need to do quite a lot of things. I was hoping that it would get better in the future, but this announcement has me thinking that is not going to happen, and those things are just going to get buried deeper than they are now! We know that the "Classic" option is going away soon and it looks like the dumbing down isn't going to stop till Ubuntu is only fit to run on a smart phone touch screen! Mint Linux is looking better everyday, as they have said they are not going the Unity route and are keeping a desktop GUI that you can actually do things with, without having to resort to CLI all the time! As I am pretty much CLI illiterate and don't have the type of memory that can remember long path names and obscure commands and switchs and the syntax that needs to be typed in perfectly to get things done that way, Mint is going to be a life saver for me! sudo nautilus is what I use to set permissions on files, so you can figure just how much I dislike the CLI!!!
It can grow if it needs to.
"Needs to" according to whose estimation? Some people think they need it to grow for various reasons; others behind capping ISPs need it not to grow.
We could use rewriteable media.
You already can; it's called a USB flash drive or SD card. See Installation/FromUSBStick.