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HTC Infringed Apple Patents, Says ITC's Initial Determination
CWmike writes "A judge at the U.S. International Trade Commission has made an initial determination that HTC infringed two Apple patents, HTC said late Friday. If the judgment is made final, HTC could be banned from importing phones to the U.S. It's the latest blow to Google's Android operating system, which is being attacked by competitors including Apple, Microsoft and Oracle. The initial determination will now be reviewed by a larger panel of ITC judges, who can uphold or reject it. The two patents appear to be fundamental to Android, according to Florian Mueller, a patent expert. 'They are very likely to be infringed by code that is at the core of Android,' he wrote in a blog post. The same patents are also at the heart of a dispute between Apple and Motorola, he said."
That is all.
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
So? Everyone is infringing everyone's patents, I bet all technology companies which create software for non-embedded tech is infringing on at least one patent.
Honestly, for me is funny that the same people who wanted competition vs Google (WP7 fans, for example) are the same people who want Android dead... I thought competition was better for users, and eliminating it by brutal force is a long term pain, isn't it?
And the patents (from http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/07/itc-judge-finds-htc-in-infringement-of.html) are:
U.S. Patent No. 5,946,647 on a "system and method for performing an action on a structure in computer-generated data" (in its complaint, Apple provides examples such as the recognition of "phone numbers, post-office addresses and dates" and the ability to perform "related actions with that data"; one example is that "the system may receive data that includes a phone number, highlight it for a user, and then, in response to a user's interaction with the highlighted text, offer the user the choice of making a phone call to the number")
U.S. Patent No. 6,343,263 on a "real-time signal processing system for serially transmitted data" (while this sounds like a pure hardware patent, there are various references in it to logical connections, drivers, programs; in its complaint, Apple said that this patent "relates generally to providing programming abstraction layers for real-time processing applications")
I think I violated these patents just reading this article.
Insert self-referential sig here.
Google will step in and shield HTC like it did most of its partners. Sorry this message is short, I'm too busy converting 10 years worth of video content to WebM to protect myself from royalties and get in on that Open action.
I wonder how much Apple paid them to arrive at that decision...?
If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits
(Tagged MuellerTroll; Didn't Read.)
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
WTH?, Didn't we already established in about every single article written by him that he is a paid microsoft shill trying to create FUD around android? Most of what he writes is BS, as has been proven again and again. I am not saying that everything that we writes should be regarded as BS, although I would ignore it because he already lost all credibility to me, he may eventually write something of value, but to call him a patent expert is just, well, it is enough to get me into rant mode and come post in an article that I should be ignoring. /rant
And I am very sorry for the rant, as I will probably regret it tomorrow, I am off to sleep.
firebomb your senator.
If this actually gets finalised (right now is just a PR thing) and HTC are forced to make changes does mean that the rest of the world will get a crippled android?
Will they distribute two versions of the software at added cost to them or keep is simpler. (I assume this is legal my internalization patent law knowledge is lacking.)
Could this be how software patents get overthrown when the general public and politicians realise that US sold phones are inferior to what you can get in the third world or china and everywhere else.
"It's amazing what can be accomplished when we don't care who gets the credit." -(I forget who originally said this, ironically enough...) :)
It's interesting that your username is "Billy Gates". I'm sure it's totally unrelated to the content of your post, but still quite amusing.
By the way, I agree. Apple has totally gone off the reservation.
Funny may not give karma, but +5 Informative never made anyone snort coffee out their nose.
Cool story bro.
The system has become so corrupt and so anathema to everything civilized, decent, and holy, that we make, on our own, in the darkness and safety of the night, purely to remind ourselves that somewhere, the human species has some hope for the future, and that the world is not completely controlled by the greedy and the ignorant.
and steve jobs will try to figure out what happened.
lawyers. Seriously, can we please round these bottom-feeders up and put them at the bottom of Yucca Mountain? Radioactive waste and each other are the only company they're fit to spend eternity with.
Women are like electronics: you don't know how damaged they are until you try to turn them on.
I think Apple's lapping Microsoft in the douche of the Universe Award. I mean, we still have the swimsuit competition... *shudder* Ballmer in a bikini...
Apple's been getting on my LAST nerve, well, since they went Intel. I'm seriously re-thinking my interest in anything Apple at all. Steve Jobs can sit and spin... The only reason Apple's doing this is because the real threat for their smartphone business is Android phones. I wonder how long it'll take before Apple and Microsoft go toe-to-toe in the smartphone arena...
This fiasco, folks, is why Software Patents are evil.
It's the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
Who forced you to buy a $150 phone for $375?
that would be, you know, WRONG.
cheering for one huge controlling company vs another vs another.
right.
there are no honest or morale companies once you get that big.
its a false choice. they ALL would screw you over - and enjoy it, all the while.
to think of an american mega-corp as 'good' - you guys must have some strong koolaid.
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"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
They have an opportunity to 'fix' the problems with the Apple Software patent AND importantly the Microsoft ones as well.
They may well have to settle on the signal processing patent.
But and this is the irony, HTC can now honestly code around the Apple & MS patents and come to market giving two fingers (or one if that is your want) to them.
If they were to grab this bull by the horns they could have a very nice USP here.
No more $10 per handset to MS
No more $?? per handset to Apple.
If they did this then I'd probably ditch my ancient nokia 6310 for an HTC phone.
I suspect that all of these companies infringe on some of another companies patents. This is the beginning of patent wars that may lead to an eventual reform of patent law.
Since when does patent infringement result in a ban on import rather than a fine and order to pay royalties for the patented item? Is it because HTC isn't a US company?
Heh. Im guessing you dream of one day posting at +2? And they say ths site has a low signal-to-noise-ratio.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
Florian is an astroturfer and a shill and is suspected of being paid by MicroSoft. And CWMike is a spammer. And all the *world news sites are sensationalist tripe, and either timothy is lazy or they pay slashdot to post this stuff. I think both. With big stories like this surely other sites are reporting it and there used to be a time when slashdot linked to a variety of sites. Now its the same 5 or 6 with the same sensationalist spam. Dont think this is some conspiracy either -- 2 of the top 10 submitters of all time are openly ComputerWorld employees. And 4 of the current slashdot front page stories link to them. We need to demand an end to this crap. I know the firehose is hard to read with all the spam but c'mon timothy. I used to think all the ACs posting this kind of meta accusations about slashdot were just crazy or trolls, but it has gotten so bad in the past year Slashdot quickly moving to unbearably bad. It's turning into digg.
I know I'm risking my karma with this, but this subject is just screaming for a rant.
If we can't legally have freedoms anymore, then we'll just have to have them illegally (at least those of us with the backbone to stand up for our rights). Maybe this will be the straw that breaks the patent camel's back. When it becomes obvious that corporations are simply using patents as big sticks to wave at one another and beat down competitors, it becomes just as apparent that patents need to be abolished, not just reformed.
I, for one, couldn't care less about patents... especially when they are used in direct contradiction to the purpose and concepts that originated them in the first place. Patents should not be used as a tool to inhibit technological growth, and if importing Android products becomes illegal, I predict a huge and thriving black market. Furthering that point, I would predict that at the point where personal freedom is infringed for every consumer, we will either all lie down and accept the boot of our masters on our heads, or we will do the same thing we did when they outlawed alcohol; We will ignore the laws, and do what we please... especially when you consider that this latest batch of kids is the "entitlement" generation, with no concepts like "accountability" or "responsibility" to impede them.
I know there's a baby in this bathwater somewhere, but I'm soaked to the skin, and the plug is so much easier to find...
--
"This is why we can't have nice things."
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License.
If the software is a problem can't they just sell a blank phone without an OS and leave it up to the user to load an OS (which they can download from HTC's Russian website)?
I seem to remember reading that one of the very early 8 bit computers (might have even been the Apple) was having a problem getting it's PSU approved by the FCC or some authority so they sold it without a PSU and the user had to source one themselves.
OTOH... I believe the iPhone comes without iOS loaded and you have to load it via iTunes, so maybe Apple already has a patent on this concept too ;)
Apple is in the process of burning a thousand bridges it would seem. Just as Microsoft set itself up as a company no one should trust, Apple is close in following. Suing its suppliers? No one else in that part of the world will want to do business with them either. If they keep this up, they will have to bring manufacturing back to the U.S. And if you think Apple is overpriced now...
I've seen a number of grand statements like this from Florian Mueller. I do believe that every single one (that I've read about at least) turned out to be putting the best possible spin on something for whoever has the most to gain by such spin. I've also seen Florian's reports dissected and rejected soundly (Google Florian, SCO, and Groklaw). I don't bother reading anything he writes anymore, as it is almost always fear mongering, FUD, and spin. I believe the term that applies here is "paid shill". Of course, all that is just my own opinion - read his writings with a grain of doubt and form your own opinion.
and they've been around since the early 90s.
The Internet's nature is peer to peer - 20050301_cs_profs.pdf
I was tempted to get the rumored 'cheap' iPhone if it surfaces in autumn... looks like i'll have to buy a HTC one instead when my current (Android) phone dies.
iOS has much better overall polish, but if they want to compete on lawyers instead of features, i'll vote with my wallet - for the underdog.
I apologize for the lack of a signature.
Love it... switching from the iPhone was like getting out of prison. I can actually do stuff with my phone now - you know - stuff I WANT to do with it, and not just what Apple tells me I can do with it.
U.S. Patent No. 5,946,647 on a "system and method for performing an action on a structure in computer-generated data" (in its complaint, Apple provides examples such as the recognition of "phone numbers, post-office addresses and dates" and the ability to perform "related actions with that data"; one example is that "the system may receive data that includes a phone number, highlight it for a user, and then, in response to a user's interaction with the highlighted text, offer the user the choice of making a phone call to the number")
Isn't this exactly what AWK does? And it's from 1977. From Wikipedia:
The AWK utility is a data extraction and reporting tool that uses a data-driven scripting language consisting of a set of actions to be taken against textual data (either in files or data streams)
It's a pure software patent, and as such not valid in Europe.
So how do I get out of the United States so as to no longer be subject to this software patent BS?
Everything I've read says the laches defense works only if the alleged infringer can prove that the patent holder delayed legal action on purpose. Good luck proving that if you're much smaller than Apple.
They should be fined, HTC that is, for the cost of the current-day expense of doing their own R & D to implement those key factors in their technology under the presumption no groundwork was laid for them. $13 a unit or other such numbers are patent extortion however. Considering the level of triviality the patents in contention have now reached, those development costs should not be all that substantial. ... the novelty wore of quickly.
If you want to fix the broken patent system, you have to fight people who have a lot of wealth (power) and a lot of interest in the status quo.
Of course, these same people, wielding their pet corporations, are fighting to keep Government corruption in its current form (the backbone of which is the "campaign contribution" bribery system and it's offshoot, the system of lobbying jobs, speaking engagements, and book deals that serve as a front to pay off cronies at all levels of government), so you can write off using government power as a check against them.
The only way we'll see things change is if these rich, powerful people get too greedy and use their pet corporations against each other (like the story above), in which case our goal is simply to hunker down as much as possible and hope that in the aftermath we can sneak in a little bit of progress.
Things won't change as long as our civilization allows for the concentration of wealth at current levels. The hard part, of course, is deciding an allowable maximum threshold. Soviet or Mao style communism are obviously not the answer, and European style socialism is having some problems (though arguably a lot of those were caused by socialists dabbling in hyper-capitalist market manipulation as a result of meme-contamination from the US). The Canadian style hybrid seems to be doing pretty well, though they've got their own contamination problems making trouble, likely due to meddling by powerful interests afraid of a world run like Canada.
I know, I know, it's an article about patents, but the obvious flaws in the patent system are all simply emergent phenomena, part of a deeper underlying dysfunction that can ultimately be attributed to animals having more power than they can responsibly handle.
The world you experience is only a close approximation of reality.
Just to be clear, this guy is not really a judge. He's just a bureaucrat. HTC has the right to contest his decision before a real Federal judge. Unfortunately, their imports will be barred in the meantime, so they might decide to settle even if they think they would prevail in court.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
Calling Florian Mueller a "patent expert" is like calling me a "culinary expert" because I have seen someone cook bacon once.
This article describes ADD, including what its developers considered to be unique and different from other approaches.
My take on this is that ADD did come up with some clever ideas in implementation that solved the particular problems they were addressing (focusing on simple problems and fast detection). It's clear that what's unique is the particular implementation, not the idea of detecting phone numbers and such. They cite lots of other examples of the idea.
So, there are two possibilities. Either the patent covers the idea (and thus is inappropriately broad and will be ruled invalid) or the patent is about the particular implementation, in which case it should be simple to implement in a way that avoids violation. In either case, HTC and Android will be fine.
Why is someone still bringing publicity to Florian Mueller? That guy is neither an expert, nor has a clue what is he talking about. His spins were debunked so many times it is not even pretty.
This is second or third post based on his blogs this week. Stop feeding that particular troll, it is starting to look like a smear campaign.
Gosh, if you follow through the claim ("a method for causing the computer to perform an action on a structure identified in computer data...enabling selection of the structure and a linked action; and executing the selected action linked to the selected structure"), every email MUA in existence does that. Receive an email, look for the From: (or Reply-to:) header, allow the user to reply to the address in the header...
6,343,263 is so broad and vague as to be meaningless. It's just talking about creating a hardware abstraction layer. Again, something which has been done for a long long time.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
5,946,647, every email MUA in existence does this - look for the From: (or Reply-to:) header, and let the user send an email to the address found there.
6,343,263 just describes creating a hardware abstraction layer, something else which has been done for a long, long time.
This illustrates one of the big problems with the patent system - inventor are supposed to get exclusive rights for a limited time in exchange for describing their inventions so the public can benefit from them. But, patents are written in language which deliberately obfuscates, often making it impossible to tell WTF the "invention" actually is, let alone duplicate it. They're not describing useful inventions, they're designed to be so vague and general as to describe wide ranges of utility in terms which make it sound like there's some new invention being described.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Let's RTFR, or wait for Groklaw to dissect the ruling and publish their findings. So far Groklaw have shown Florian Muller tends to sensationalize these issues in a way they look really bad for Android while the opposite is true.
HTML is obsolete. It's time for a new, simpler and richer markup language.
If Apple has it's way, in the future all phones will be iphones.
And all restaurants will be taco bell.
I'm not really looking forward to the 3 sea shells, though.
HTC clearly infringed those patents; the question is why Apple was awarded those idiotic patents in the first place. The patents should get invalidated. And if we had a saner legal system, Apple and the inventors should be charged with fraud for filing them in the first place.
Please allow me to rephrase: Among Canada and the countries of Europe, which do you recommend for someone attempting to emigrate from the software patent regime in the United States? And how do you recommend to qualify for resident status?
So long from USA, HTC... another shitty phone maker bites the dust. There's a very good reason the iPhone is the most popular phone out there. There's a reason it's sold so many and continues to. Apple changed everything when they released this device and its successors and iOS siblings, and everyone else is still trying to catch up... and they have to steal and copy Apple's technology and innovations to do it. It's hilarious and mind-blowing.
Apple sets the standard these days. I'm sure haters will argue this, but look at sales and popularity. There's a damn good reason Apple is the richest company in the world, and is the largest maker of mobile devices in the world. If other companies want to compete, they're going to have to do the right thing and pay Apple what they deserve to use the technology that makes the iPhone and other iOS devices so successful.
HTC, and others: stop trying to cheat. Pay for these things, and maybe someday you'll have something that might be on the mass-market scale of iOS devices. If you're just going to try to steal technology to cheat your way into the market, legal action WILL be taken. Goodbye... nobody ever misses what they never knew existed!
OK so ITC Rules HTC Infringed Apple Patents
but did this address any question regarding
the validity of the patents?
If the ITC rules on contested patents and then
the patents are found to be void what penalty
is imposed on Apple to repay HTC.
....snip...
Not sure about 6,343,263 because most phone manufacturers don't release enough details to know if they infringe, but it's an incredibly broad patent and I suspect pretty much everyone is screwed on that one.
How does this differ from an ISDN modem?
Three channels... one 56K can be used for voice
or not. Go off hook and the link has voice+data.
On hook and the data link doubles in BW. Always
some back band management bandwidth too.
What magic is hidden in all the Comcast set top boxes?
Bits are decoded into video streams, audio streams, data streams,
data streams can be multiplexed into other streams...
There is an axiom about systems (which Bill Gates seems to have used to justify MSWindows, especially in the early years) that seems to have been mislaid in current IT and CS training:
No system is perfect.
Restated, every system is vulnerable.
The only way to prove that axiom false would require proving NP == P.
Political systems, computer systems, education systems, washing machine control systems, telephone systems, e-mail or snail mail systems, health care systems, whatever, when we decide they can drive themselves, we put ourselves at risk.
Not saying that we shouldn't try caps on wealth or income. Something needs to be done. But if the caps are made permanent and protocols are set in determining how to apply, you can safely hold your breath until somone figures out a work-around. You won't even turn slightly blue.
Either that, or the protocols will be so unwieldly that everyone simply decides to go on welfare. And it may take a few months, but someone will figure out a way around them anyway.
The problems are within us. The solutions are, also.
Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.
Apple will be sad to know that their '647 patent has prior art at least 15 years before their filing date - the Telecom ComputerPhone (I believe it was a custom ICL/Sinclair unit) did all this when it was released in 1984.
It's interesting that I got a flamebait mod, since I didn't get any flames... instead, I got a brief debate for and against my point.
Yes, this post is now off-topic; the previous one was moderated by knee-jerks, though.
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If you don't understand the meaning, disregard it- it's probably not important anyway.