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Carmack Addresses FPS Creativity Concerns
donniebaseball23 writes "id Software co-founder John Carmack defended the creativity of first-person shooter games in a recent interview. The legendary programmer, who was a pioneer in the shooter genre with Doom and Quake, said he doesn't like hearing from developers that shooters aren't good because they're not reinventing the wheel. 'I am pretty down on people who take the sort of creative auteurs' perspective. It's like "Oh, we're not being creative." But we're creating value for people — that's our job! It's not to do something that nobody's ever seen before. It's to do something that people love so much they're willing to give us money for... you see some of the indie developers that really take a snooty attitude about this,' he lamented."
Doom III. I'm sorry but Doom III wasnt a game, it was a tech demo. While I understand what you are getting at, you have some big skeletons in your closet regarding this particular complaint.
Good-bye
He's placing the blame on shitty games on us, the gamers.
Rightfully so. When a COD game can sell millions just on it's name alone, something's wrong.
Although I think that his take on it is a little wrong. But I think Rage is kind of the right direction away from just the traditional walk, shoot, maybe hide behind some cover paradigm. If Rage for iOS is anything to go by, it'll not only be rich and fun with a good sense of humor but the racing aspects will be a nice touch.
Yes, HL2(and ep 2) had those annoying boat and car scenes, but I trust Carmack and co to get this one right.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
It's not your job to do something nobody's ever seen before, sure. But raising the bar should be your goal nonetheless. Visuals are a solved problem, and the days of the tech demo are over. Even the hardware race is over--id's new game Rage is targeting six-year-old console hardware. So what else is there but to push creative expressiveness in a genre that's crying out for some artistic legitimacy on the level that movies and novels enjoy? It's clear that a game like Portal 2 would never come out of id Software.
Of course the "indie" developers are whining. That is what "indie" people do. They whine about how everything is not good enough and how they could do it better. Maybe some indie developer can come up with a revolutionary game where you ride around on a Vespa and go to poetry readings at various coffee shops.
Interestingly it seems /. agrees that a company that made wolfenstein, doom, doom, quake, quake, quake, wolfenstein, doom, quake should not be the one to comment about FPS creativity.
Thanks for the technology, but their gaming experience is still where it was 15 years ago. To top it off, visuals have come a long way since Q1 that it is really hard to sell a game purely based on "pretty" gfx.
> pioneer in the shooter genre with Doom and Quake
When you're still known best for things done 15 and 18 years ago can you really claim "creativity" as one of your strong points?
Where's have the cool brackets+enter inventory system and use keys from 1994-97 gone to? We were doing so well until Halo came.
Duke3D wasn't just fun for the 'attitude' and "THE BOOBS ON E1L2" you know, Heretic/Hexen also explored the more tactical FPS elements no one cared about (and no one really did still anyway. fps cockfighting wasn't seen again until 15 years later when ArmA 2 came out).
Let's not forget that one '1993 vs. 200x level design' picture, the strict lameness of oververbose design documents written by a dedicated 'game designer'. I remember people saw the little GTA design doc here months ago as offensive for not being a "proper design doc" because it left a lot of room for the rest of the team to get creative by themselves to make the game by featuring little detail outside gameplay. It's getting so 'by the book' these days to make/sell linear one-track experience by linear one-track experience, we can't even have clever easter eggs anymore either.
Let's also not forget the whole "DLC" movement, clamping down on custom content opportunities, destroying potential modding communities in the name for money.
Current state of affairs
Indie: We need more creativity!
Nostalgia: We want doom level newness!
Carmack: We made some creative stuff, but now we are doing it for the cash. Here, have another COD where you can endlessly fight each other in the same maps.
Nostalgia: *whimpers*
Steam: Here, we have hats!
*It is super effected, Nostlagia feints*
Indie: Art matters. Art... *stomach growls*
Steam: We'll package your stuff together and drum up sales.
Indie: Can't make art if dead from starvation....
by Anonymous Coward: I, for one, welcome the shift from car analogies to pizza analogies. um.. overlords?
So Portal wasn't creative or new idea?
Sure the original game was out in 2007 but the concept was new (AFAIK).
There have been FPS games where you can completely move in 3 dimensions but they haven't been as commercially successful, so of course development studios are going to target as large an audience as possible. It is more economical for them to refine a current idea rather than reinvent the wheel.
Blizzard have built their name off taking popular ideas of games and refining them to be marketable to the masses.
Shakespeare based his plays off of other plays around at the time does it make his contribution to literature less important?
Ah-ha, you da mofo, mofo !!
And the only one that was any good was the first quake. Scared me me a few times !! Nothing since !! The sword unsheathing !! Those damn zombies, especially !!
Not to mention Wolf 3D was the real begining :)
Normal people worry me!
Carmack, I like you. I respect you and appreciate what you've done for 3D gaming. But it's clear your strength is in engine design and not game design. Stay in your niche please, and don't pretend to believe that indie developers are somehow being 'snooty' so much as in offering an alternative gaming experience compared to the big-budget studios who are afraid to risk trying anything different.
we're creating value for people — that's our job! It's not to do something that nobody's ever seen before. It's to do something that people love so much they're willing to give us money for
Wow, he's using almost the same argument for making DOOM 3 as the producers did to make DOOM the movie. Or Uwe Boll used for every movie he ever made. Say it ain't so, John!
Obviously Carmack is not the sole fount of creativity in the world. But his output is amazing. I still know people who talk about Commander Keen. As far as Doom, Quake and the like, the market has spoken. I have spent many hours playing Doom and Quake deathmatch. There was a time the Internet component of Doom's deathmatch was seen as innovative. As far as I'm concerned, Doom and Quake set the bar for FPS, the way Age of Empires set the bar for RTS (I'm biased against Starcraft...)
Carmack released id Tech 3's code as GPL. Go look at that code. I spend so much time looking over other people's crappy code. That code looks real nice. I couldn't believe how good the code looked. Clear as a bell what everything does. It's also amazing so little code can do so much in games like OpenArena.
Reading the book Masters of Doom made me admire Carmack all the more as a coder. I don't know who was wrong or right in the office politics with him and Romero at I.D., most people I know who have met Romero say he's a nice guy. But there's no taking away Carmack's technical prowess.
Just remember what ID Software was before Carmack booted Romero. DON"T YOU FORGET IT! ID Software was once an inovator of both Science and Art, married together by a glue of fanbase, and ever since the Johns wparted ways it just resolved to be nothing more than a stock ticker. Sure Doom3 was nice, but so is Planet Earth without water. A Slideshow of artwork could have been presented by Romero with a multiple-choice question on how to continue, and it would still be cooler than Doom3.
Doom3 the engine was an attempt to synthesize John Romero back into ID Software, but it had no soul and was void. It was void just like all the other game engines that built their fanbase on multiplayer hoping activity and some AI would make it fun, but nope -- nothing that Romero couldn't do with a stroke of a brush.
I hear ID Software was sold to another company since about 3 months ago, and Carmack was reduced to a mere production manager while an entire pigeon-coup of naturalized illegal aliens were imported to do the work of him, but none of them could do as Romero because:
Our Father who Arteth in Purgatory,
unwritten be thy name!
Thy commode come!
Thy pallet never done!
On lucid canvas between the heavens!
Give us this Turtle our daily waypoint,
and chart us a segment,
and Forgive us our Undo as we redo those that made better to us whom were silenced by the Adversary.
And lead us not into a Microsoft Compiler but deliver us from
the Aquisittor for thine is the Independence and Beauty and Strength forever! Humen!
If the game is successful and people like it, companies sell more of the same thing. If it's not selling as well they create a variation to gather some more appeal. That's sorta how any form of product marketing works.
lol @ noobs who don't understand gaming
one of carmack's masterpieces, quake 3, was a generic, uncreative, derivative, limited in scope game
yet 12 years later it is still the king of the genre
the pinnacle of game design is when simple ideas combine to form interesting gameplay. it's not about spamming you with hundreds of features or complex mechanics or innovative gimmicks. it's about merging together time-tested ideas into an experience that creates the dynamic and strategic gameplay that lasts decades
I've had more fun with indie games in the past few years than every id game since Quake 3 combined...
Just because they are well known for something they CREATED 15+ years ago doesn't make them any less creative.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law - Aleister Crowley
Apart from a few games that have a die-hard following, I believe the reason why many people buy these newer games is so that they can play against a proper pool of people.
Take things like the NHL/NFL games; a load of people buy the updated roster and the slight graphics upgrade. If they're all playing 'XX 12' then they aren't playing 'XX 11' as well, are they? So you buy XX 12 because, if you don't, you'll be playing against the massively reduced pool of people who can't afford/haven't gotten around to buying the next version. There are a number of games that essentially have no single player component; it's multi-player against bots.
If the next Modern Warfare title did away with the multi-player component in an obvious way (big announcement, etc), how many people would actually buy it?
Not the "are video games art" debate.
him and that wild man Romero, tore the gates off the entrance to the PC graphics and game industry, and stomped on them. they were years ahead of their time, only a tiny tiny handful could do what they did. what they did was absolutely pioneering.
Romero's creative angst ridden genius + carmack's technical skill = compelling nightmare world
you take one of those and separate it from the other? well, maybe you have to at some point,, they couldnt be shareware cowboys forever.... but sometimes 1+1 is much more than 2 and if carmack can't see that i dont know what to say.
Seeing as other FPS games were initially called "Doom clones" for many years after Doom's premier, I would say yes. That is indeed a strong achievement that you can be proud of for decades.
it's a bit hard to predict, though. 20 years from now we might be looking at games where the user can heavily modify the environment cooperatively and look back at Minecraft as the game that popularized it - or, it might end up just being a fad. Who knows?
Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
You're completely right, you're being forced to buy and play CoD. Doom is great. Now go bitch about it on your livejournal, and maybe tell your friends on friendster about it.
Nintendo is still best known for creating Mario the character over 25 years ago. Whats your point?
If a band makes the same shit over and over, peers are not going to be fond of it. Same old same old, and this is idSoftware and shooters in general. By 2000 I had forgotten about idSoftware and what they were about since it was old re/hash. Maybe it is time for JC to load a fresh bowl and smoke something other than rehashed resins.
I sick of indoor areas in all carmack's games. It was impressive 15 years ago. Not today. Today you have to have outdoor environments, like all mmorpg have had for 10 years. That's more technical impressive, because that displays more polygons, or more world content if you want. A claustrophobic closet is not impressive to be able to render in 100+ fps. Doom, Quake and Rage all have these environments, and i'm sick of it. I want a free gaming world. Rage for iphone was a rail shooter, couldn't even move. And how can any claim creativity of making the toilet-brown palette of quake1? Please.
They both would like to have a word with you.
Let us not ignore the fact that Rise of The Triad (of 3DRealms fame) was basically the better Wolf3D until
"innovator" John Carmack demanded they remove all references to NAZIS or face lawsuits from the courts because Wolf3D from ID Software already had the "prior art" of Escaping a NAZI prison.
Oh yes, and Bear Grylls mighth face lawsuits from ID Software for teaching how to "survive" and "escape" Castle Auschvitz.
Obviously what little Carmack innovated through ID Software he simply captured the light that was mis-handled by Apogee to create fanboys just as bad as the Microsoft camp. First Person Shitters simply can't prove they own much in terms of innovation, whereas other top-down 3rd-perspective titles are the ones that pioneered the 3D POV that won Zelda64, Mario Kart64, & Myth(1 & 2, that was re-engineered into Halo). Then when you take the perspective into play, you'll discover notices of prior art from an earlier title called Wacky Wheels, and even Battlezone from the 80's.
Nothing has been innovated. The appearance of ID Software on the scene was an equivalent of the Day That Never Ended when AOL'ers arrived on the scene, only the people that bought and liked Doom2 and Wolf3D and Quake1 are the AOL'ers. The reason why ID Software and even Microsoft prevailed in court disputes over prior art is because the potenntial of generating government revenue would favor that every prior artist bend and submit to the current thief because prio rart without commerce just makes the science of computing look like it's dominated by non-profits and stubborn undiscovered potential like how a patent troll would intentionally invent technology to prevent anyone from benefitting it and shooting down all competitors just to block all advances i nthe industry rightfully-so because they are the owners of it.
'nuff for me...don't need no fancy Wii, Playstation etc. Yeah!
I completely agree with this sentiment. We have only begun to scratch the surface of gaming's potential. FPS's, RTS's, Sports Sims, and puzzle games were fine in the first generation of video games, but they've grown quite stale by now.
There are, however, glimmers of something greater out there. We all know Half Life and Shadow of the Colossus. There was also Black & White. I'm sure Slashdotters will jump in with half a dozen more. And recently I played Enslaved, which is one of the best games I've ever seen--bracing, beautiful, moving, and ... fun; it had real character development, humor, rage, and all the dramatic elements that draw you into a good film. So as an expressive medium games are just getting started.
But there are also the ventures in serious games that are still trying to strike the right balance between learning and entertainment. I don't doubt we eventually will, because the learning that happens when you're completely absorbed by something leaves every other kind of instruction in the dust.
Put those two things together and you'll have an expressive medium that will leave all others in the dust.
I only hope I live to see it.
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
A Slideshow of artwork could have been presented by Romero with a multiple-choice question on how to continue, and it would still be cooler than Doom3.
As evidenced by the roaring success of Daikatana.
Indie developers are only Indie developers until they get a hit. Part of that I suspect comes from being so obsessed with the thrill of making an Indie game with mass appeal makes them determined to try to do it again with a sequel since one is unlikely to hook into that popularity twice in ones career anyway. I think if most of todays Indie developers had of created Doom, they'd be doing and saying the same things.
"I'm sorry I haven't done anything original in 15 years. Please buy my latest iteration of Doom anyway. I promise you exactly the same crap I've been peddling for the last 18 years, but with 5% extra shiniez. No nasty surprises,no interesting gameplay mechanics, no unusual environments, just generic corridor shooting the way you like it. Legions of cookie-cutter mooks from the clone vats, despite the fact that doing a little randomising on the facial features would take zero effort. Locked doors won't respond to anything but the correct key no matter how much ordnance you have, and if your way is blocked by two pieces of furniture piled up, get ready to find an alternate route. All enemies are combat robots, who are 100% effective until you drain all their hit points. This mechanism made sense 20 years ago on machines with tiny RAM and limited hardware, so there's no reason to stop using it now, just because it's silly.
We're trying to make money here, not games or works of art, so please buy yet another generic FPS, if for no other reason than it's got my name on it and I did a couple of cool things 20 years ago. Admittedly, if you're old enough to remember or care who I am, you've probably got dozens of near-identical FPS games in your library anyway, but please buy this one, because at least I'm not responsible for Daikatana."
Just one of Valve's "creative" games brings in more money than all your unimaginative games put together.
"we've got trenchcoats and bad attitudes" - John Constantine, HellBlazer
All videogames, to this date, are "derivative work" from older titles. You take the mechanic of a old game, or older games, and you recreate the formula, tryiing to make it better. Just adding things that already exist, may feel "short" and get poor reviews from both critics and public. It would really feel like a bad game.
So from your point of view as game engine programmer It can be ok to iterate the same game, with better graphics, but this is going to fail wen the public opinion will find your game a "rehash" of old stuff.
Carmack next title is not just Doom3 enhanced. He has added vehicles, a new way to author maps for mapper artist, some RPG elements, and a imaginative new world. He is not doing what he is talking about. He is doing what all game devs in the history has always been doing: improving gaming.
We have moved very far and very fast away from the original asteroids/tanks/galaga; games are now gigantic, or deep, or wide,.. this process is going to continue, and is a good process.
-Woof woof woof!
Verry successful. moar people bought
Daikatana than ever bought Nethack and Xevil combined.
Stallman is pleased for Romero's success at destroying the world
moar than eMacs on HURD ever achieved.
>>As evidenced by the roaring success of Daikatana.
If anything, Catacomb 3D was more like the beginning. But, ID was just ripping off the still-in-development Ultima Underworld. That game in turn borrowed a lot from the 'stepped' real-time 3D dungeon games like Dungeon Master and Eye of the Beholder.
"I make boring uncreative crap but they shouldn't TELL ME I make boring uncreative crap, after all didn't you see how much money I managed to fleece off the ignorant masses that think FPS games are the only kinds of games that exist?!"
Seriously, someone once said that true "casual gamers" are those that only play FPS games and nothing else, and I'm inclined to agree. If you only play the yearly iteration of Call of War 3 Modern Battlefield then YOU ARE NOT A "HARDCORE" GAMER. My issues with the terms hardcore and casual aside (i.e. they are stupid and divisive), this is really true. What many of you consider Facebook gamers more aptly applies to the FPS crowd. At least Facebook gamers often fluctuate from many genres, be they farm sims, puzzle games, or RPG's. FPS gamers often play ONLY FPS games and that makes them more casual than the casual.
Of course, the Phoenix isn't as pretty as the Enterprise-E. But it f$%king warped! People should learn some manners before they bash Doom 3 :D
I agree HL2 is the best FPS so far in how it's like an addictive novel. You just can't put the mouse down and want to know what's next. But I never forget the refractive panels and the dynamic shadows in Doom 3. JC gives the tools to fellow developers to make more good stuff and I respect that.
Yes it does. It means they haven't done much of anything of note since then. You could say that game/graphic engines are their creativity and that I could agree with, but the fact remains that their initial spark remains the high point of their careers and prestige.
FPS from id are getting kind of old, it seems that's all they know how to do, they need to do something new, something that isn't an FPS.
Michael
http://s1.sfgame.us/index.php?rec=58163
Albert Einstein is most well known for his Theory of Relativity. That was by no means his only achievement, but it got him the spotlight alright. If he were alive today he would ***still known best for things done x+15 and y+18 years ago*** Was he a creative out of the box thinker? You bet. Can he claim it as a strong point? Absolutely, but Einstein was known to be modest ;)
Quake wasn't even massively creative compared to games at the time. It had an amazing engine and all, but it wasn't very fun to play. I think Quake's popularity can be attributed to the mods which took over the Q1 scene: Rune Quake, Team Fortress, Rocket Arena, Quake World, rocket jumping mods, speedrunning mods, grappling hooks, et cetera. I'm forgetting a great deal of the other mods (it also had a Counter Strike mod, police v. terrorists, complete with innocent bystanders; a capture the president mod; and many more).
Strange point. Do you measure creativity by how much you are known for it?
Like many geniuses, Carmack is clearly out of his depth when discussing topics outside of his field. Quake 2 might be one of the greatest games of all time, and GPLing the code for that and quake 3?!? As far as I'm concerned, Carmack is a god. However, he's full of shit using sales to justify crap sequels. I hear people do that all the time for movies and music too, and the argument fails for the same reasons: Corporate power and brand recognition ALWAYS create sales. But those sales are short lived and cower compared to new and more original works, like Grand Theft Auto 3, or Minecraft, or Tetris, or Civilization....
I'm glad there are new versions of some classic games, quake 2 and civilization 2 being key examples. But it's shocking and sad how often a sequel loses most of the essence of what made the original great and only sells based on brand recognition (I'm looking at YOU Civ 3-5, Doom 3, Mario Kart Double Dash...etc.). Money doesn't justify crap. It just makes you a soulless and worthless hack, unable to compete on an even playing field with the new generation, and worse: the younger you. If you are just in it for the money, please, just go start investing and saving, and leave the creative process to younger, hungrier artists. That goes for games, music, movies, books, whatever. I'm tired of the corporate "safe investment" clones and sequels. There's a reason nobody under 30 pays for music or movies. And it's only PARTLY because torrents are more convenient and easier to get a hold of. It's also because deep down, even 13 year old kids don't want New Kids on the Block 6.0 to make money. And in the game world, Doom 3 was definitely NKOTB 6.0.
Now will somebody PLEASE make a Civ 2 clone with updated graphics? Civ 3, 4, and 5 aren't even fun in comparison.
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
For all the people here saying ID is yesterdays company churning out boring generic games then i would suggest looking at these videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBuGZCzPxRc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSABcqGtJo4&feature=related
They show off the gameplay from their upcoming title RAGE and while I wouldn't say they are bringing any amazing groundbreaking new elements to the FPS genre with it there are definitely enough unique and interesting elements within it that are keeping me interested in its upcoming release. I also believe the decision to go with a new IP and not just stick with an established cashcow signals a conscious choice by ID to try something a bit new and interesting. Coupled with their ususal polish and graphical excellence I am very keen to see what they can bring to the table.
I wouldn't be counting Carmack out yet :)
Funny and Interesting things from all around the net
Setting up a game in a post-apocaliptic future wasteland is a paradigm of creativity.
Stop making shit.
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
The most linear, uncreative, rehash that relied solely on graphics appeal...pretty much typifies the problem.
Nintendo is also well known for innovating controls (analog controls, and, to lesser extents, motion controls and rumble), damn good hardware (as in they last forever), trying new things (jumps from 2d platforming/adventure to 3d quite seamlessly), excellent polish if creativity lacks (basically any Mario game that isn't platforming; e.g., Mario Golf, Kart, Tennis, Soccer, etc.), and fantastic 1st and 2nd party games. That's quite a bit more than Mr "Yeah, he started the FPS genre and made some good engines after that that other companies used to make amazing games".
See subject-line, & this quote from a user here not even 2 days ago that I am in UTTER agreement with:
"In my opinion the slashdot community consists of a lot of wannabes and not a whole lot of doers." - by borgheron (172546) on Friday July 15, @02:36AM (#36772380) Homepage
So... that "all said & aside"?
Well - Until YOU'VE PERSONALLY DONE BETTER than Mr. Carmack has? You're nothing but a whining windbag armchair QB & complainer... period!
APK
P.S.=> Besides, his statements just MIGHT inspire those like you to get some of "your kind" out there off your behinds to actually do something creative & useful, yourselves...
Simply because IF you're not happy/satisfied with the current "state-of-the-art", YOU have every opportunity to start making changes, yourself...
That is, IF you can, instead of being a whining "armchair QB"!
(I think (no, I KNOW), that's where you'll find out that making "huge breakthrus" is not a linear process + that once a large breakthru's made, smaller incremental ones usually build upon them, improving them yet more still, only, usually (that is, until the next "huge breakthru" comes along & that's usually due to a complete paradigm shift OR new tech that allows for it that's not limited by the technologies of today))...
... apk
No, iD isn't being creative.
They haven't been creative in a content sense since Quake2.
That doesn't mean that John Carmack doesn't deserve long-term kudos for what he (largely) developed in terms of the genre. But while he's applying his prodigious technical intellect to developing phone games (?), in the PC game arena I'm more and more convinced that iD/Carmack belong in the hall of fame like Garriot, Meier, Bunten, and Molyneux - all of which are legends whose creative time has seemingly passed.
-Styopa
Don't buy shit, wont' be shit.
MW2 sucked and was terribly overrated, but COD4? Was a much better experience single-player than most games. The Pripyat levels were just epic in particular. And while WaW's grenade-chucking-to-keep-you-moving was extremely annoying, I don't recall where Wolf3d had the Battle of Stalingrad or planting the Soviet flag on the roof of the Reichstag.
People always like war, and it has a lot of sequels. The same is true for video games about war. Was the moniker "xxxx 2" even in use until World War 2? "World War 2 -- everything you loved about World War 1 is back. All new-diabolical enemies, new weapons, new technology, research trees, all-new Africa campaign maps, and more!"
"...doesn't like hearing from developers that shooters aren't good because they're not reinventing..."
I can't help but agree with his statement. There's a reason why a game like Super Mario Bros is still popular. It takes an old formula and executes it well. There are a lot of indie developers out there who produce games that have a ton of impact, visually and stylistically. But far more often than not they're not really consistently fun on a fundamental level. The struggle for style, the desire to be different ends up getting in the way of gameplay.
Of course, then we've got the other extreme where developers keep pumping out the same old crap. It's just as big a problem on consoles as it is on a platform like iOS. What game in the app store isn't some sort of puzzle game? You can't find a straightforward platform game that hasn't been turned into some obnoxious puzzle.
But ultimately it's all the fault of gamers. Developers are only producing what gamers are buying. Of course there's always someone out there willing to take a risk on something difference, but those guys are few and far between. Few are willing to take the leap when gamers continue buying the same tired old thing.
The Rolling Stones, AC/DC and many many other successful acts want to have a word with you.
In the art & sciences of computing then that was rated well in technical trade shows, commercial software, or publications (mags/books/newspapers) in software from YOUR end then?
" You can't complain unless you can personally weave and sew your own that are higher quality... Fucking moron." - by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 20, @11:17AM (#36824000)
Well, can you?
(E.G./I.E.-> I can & have "sewn my own software" many, Many, MANY times, & still do so today in fact... can you??)
* What's the matter? Truth GET TO YOU?? Must have, since all you're "stuck with" is being a whining little armchair QB... period!
No, the guy I quoted the other from a few days ago here largely (but not absolutely) has it right:
"In my opinion the slashdot community consists of a lot of wannabes and not a whole lot of doers." - by borgheron (172546) on Friday July 15, @02:36AM (#36772380) Homepage
Agreed... you "big talkers" around here think it's "insta-snap" perfect production in software that can "please everyone" & is absolutely "bugfree & bulletproof" for ALL cases, right-off-the-bat - new NEWS/NewsFlash: It's NOT that easy or simple!
(Especially in today's 'hacker-cracker' infested world online!)
E.G.-> They had, for the MOST part, electricity "debugged & bulletproof" w/in a decade...
NOW - By the same token & by way of comparison - They've been @ it for 1/2 a century or so now in software, & still fighting with getting it 100% bugfree + bulletproof!
APK
P.S.=> Plus, You're merely stating opinions (but those of someone who has NOT been on both sides of the fence/in the developers' shoes) - Your "one resume's better than another, or that chick's hotter than another is" crap? Pure opinion, but again from 1 side only, etc./et al (according to YOUR "pov" only & apparently you have not been on the dev. side either, unless you can show/prove differently!)...
... apk
The guys at id need to bury the hatchet and call up John Romero. I never thought I'd say that, but over the years it has become obvious that while Carmack drove the technical prowess of id, the soul of the company came from Romero. They need to get the band back together. Otherwise expect another decade of Doom clones, and whatever Romero has been toiling with over the years.
Laff. Game developers are crazy. Especially when they go around saying crazy things like, "It’s to do something that people love so much they’re willing to give us money for." Who wants a game they will love or will feel like they got their moneys worth? The nerve! Carmack won't last a year in... oh wait.
Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
Yeah, creating a FPS engine that runs on a cell phone, that doesn't seem creative at all.
You don't like their games? Fair enough, id still creates the stuff (along with Epic and a few others) that make a lot of the games you do like run.
If I want a movie with deep plot and themes, then you're right. Transformers is a lower quality work. On the other hand, sometimes I want to watch robots blowing each other up. In that case, Transformers is an extremely high quality work.
Implicit in your statement is the idea that you cannot have both. There is no reason why you cannot have movies that have some depth, story, character development, and big fucking explosions. Look at a movie like Aliens. It had close quarters machine gun battles with alien monsters, and got Sigourney Weaver a best actress nomination.
As long as you are willing to settle for the crap that Michael Bay dishes up, you won't get better. Demand more, and Hollywood will give you what you want.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
IMO there's only a handful of great FPS.
For me: Duke Nukem (the original), Unreal (first one), and Half Life (first one). All of those games really made me just say "wow" and I enjoyed them thoroughly. There's others that I enjoy, Quake 2 comes to mind.. I used to love to play online when my ISP provided a dedicated server for customers. It was fun, but not in the same class as the others I mentioned.
Hey, on another topic. WTF is up with this whole "AAA Title" bullshit? How is a "AAA Title" defined? Something that John Carmack squats down and delivers to the fans beneath him?
I simply couldn't refrain from bringing it, sort of best served cold. People.. I mean, gamers; still do play Quake1/quakeworld. Nowadays, like, right now ..... Apparently there must be something about that game which keeps people busy and actively competing even after something like 15 years, so carmack does have a point when he kind of does imply that game devs ought to create 'value' which people are willing to pay for. Certainly all the other ID products didn't reinvent the wheel, and honestly; besides the admitedly quite astonishing graphics; - none of their late products convinced me. Instead the only right thing to do for the active Quake1 'community' was to re-invent the wheel, and start coding new stuff for Quake1, build new custom maps, new physics, optimized code, better networking, etc, etc, etc, and so it happens to be that I am now able to get 2000 fps client side, and do thoroughly enjoy my Quakeworld experience, on a daily basis. And in the meantime, I watched tons, and mega tons of 'alternative' games on youtube, etc, etc, of all kinds.. and guess what? I'm looking forward each day to demos of my favorite player (whos name I won't mention now ofc).. So instead of relying on gifted and talented pro devs, or indie devs, the quake1 crowd pulled a pretty unique stunt, and took something excellent, and turned it into something even better by having set a hand on it themselves and started coding to improve their overall gaming experience in ways they saw fit. So intead of complaining about the lacking creativity in game dev, why not take the matter in your own hands and try to create something of value? After all, value is relative, most games are compared to foregone/past games and if one thinks about it for a second.. how can you compare a new game to something that has been around already, and of value/good and then demand that the new game must be somehow better? So does it have to be similar to the old one you compare it to and then just be slightly better? Or do you expect something entirely different and new? If that would be the case, there would be no real point in comparing it in the first place. So I guess Carmack is right when implying that people ought to find value in a product and ultimately pay a dime for it. What do people think a solid game really is? It's something that has defied the perils of time, and lots of work to constantly enhance and improve it, code wise, gameplay wise, etc.. And not just inventing something creative which is faulty, unreliable, incoherent, crashing and so on, which does quickly turn this so very new and inventive game into one of the tens of thousands games which quickly and irrevocably sank into obscurity (barring the few retro gamers that might eventually rediscover it a decade later), never to be seen again. So a game must imo, be solid. And stand the turn of the tide. (figuratively spoken), Sorry for this rant, and I didn't proof read this entire text, so it was basically one completely rounded piece of work. cheers :> and oh yes, q1 rulz. :>
Can be a critic. E.G.-> If Jesus Christ came in, you'd tell him get a haircut I bet, & because you're this "great critic" (wow - "big effort" that (not))!
(Your kind could give an aspirin a headache, troll... )
I also see that "U RAN" vs. this here too:
http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2337570&cid=36824444
* Yes - Typical trolling "ne'er-do-well" wannabe "critics" always do that, everytime... & simply because of what they are (big talkers, not doers), just like you!
APK
P.S.=> Most especially when they haven't done the job @ hand themselves they "criticize" & *THINK* their "point-of-view" is the ONLY 1 out there that matters...
That from you is foolhardy arrogance, in a nutshell, because apparently from your lack of results? You haven't done ANY programming @ all, yourself!
Now - I felt personally that DOOM III was a good game, & Quake 4 even better still, and YOU personally evidently have NOT done better than that, yourself, either...!
... apk
Is they very quickly degrade to "go kill that stronger enemy with this bigger gun"
Yawn. Boring. Done it a thousand times.
What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
There didn't used to be anything wrong with not being creative as long as you deliver an entertaining experience. But the problem is the FPS market is flooded now more than ever; you need to create a unique experience to sell a game or it will become lost and forgotten in the sea of shooter clones. Developers realize this and release games like Bulletstorm and Timeshift; standard shooter fare with a "unique" gimmick. They seem to assume this alone will sell a game, but as sales of both of those titles have shown, it will not. And it's not because they're "bad" games (well Bulletstorm anyway...) but $60 is a lot of money to drop on a 6 hour experience. A game needs to provide either replayability or an incredible story-driven experience to warrant that much money. The fact is, even the shooters that are considered "creative" just don't.