Terror Attack On Norwegian Government

techtech sends this quote from the BBC: "A large bomb blast has hit near government headquarters in the Norwegian capital Oslo, killing at least one person. The offices of Norwegian Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg were damaged extensively — a government spokeswoman said he was safe. Police said a number of people were injured in the city center explosion. No-one has said they were behind the attack, which witnesses said could be heard across the capital."

Comments

The result of an old threat

[madhatter256]

According to ABC news:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/oslo-explosion-blast-result-massive-vehicle-bomb-sources/story?id=14134197

Earlier this month, a Norwegian prosecutor filed terrorism charges against an Iraqi-born cleric who had allegedly threatened the lives of Norwegian politicians. Mullah Krekar, the founder of the Kurdish Islamist group Ansar al-Islam, said in a news conference in 2010 that if he was deported from Norway he would be killed and, therefore, Norwegian politicians deserved the same fate, according to an AP report. The Norwegian government had considered deporting Krekar because he was seen as a national security threat.

Re:The result of an old threat

[Anonymous Coward]

This is not the result. This is part 1. Part 2 depends on the action of the government and people. You see, in all cases of what terrorism has done itself was to kill a few people. This only affected a reasonable tiny segment of the population. More are affected by drunks on the road every year.

The important part of terrorism is the part 2 - the so called reaction by the people and the government. They could either,

  1. treat this as a criminal act and hold the responsible parties to account, or

  2. undermine their own freedoms in their own fear of the "enemy", stop trusting one another and view anyone that appears different as the "enemy". This is the aim of the terrorist, not the initial damage.

So far, the terrorist are quite a ways ahead, if you ask me. A simple bomb here, a bomb there. A handful of people die. People demand action. And soon enough they look suspicious at any minority, become radicals themselves and destroy their own societies simply out of fear. The victims becomes the terrorists themselves. And the cycle continues until we end up with Afghanistan style society.

Re:The result of an old threat

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't help but guess this was domestic in origin. People don't hate foreign political parties. If the people who did this didn't grow up in Norway, I'll be surprised.

Re:The result of an old threat

[madhatter256]

I should have possibly the result of an earlier threat.

Now there is an apparent shooting goin on Utoya.... so it might be politically motivated.

Re:The result of an old threat

[toriver]

Unrelated, he has been saying the same things for years. His terrorist group is in the Kurd areas (Turkey/Iraq/Iran), far away from Norway. The only reason he is still here is that we do not extradite people to countries where they risk the death penalty, and we haven't received binding enough guarantees from either the Iraqi nor the Kurd governments (Northern Iraq still being a somewhat self-regulated Kurdish province).

Re:The result of an old threat

[Anonymous Coward]

The terrorist are winning because nobody holds them accountable for their actions. There are reasons people think terrorist acts are their only defense against wrongs, either real or imagined but these acts only ensure increasing amounts of attacks in the future up to the point of all out warfare. I still have a problem with how any rational or somewhat intelligent individuals could witness the behavior of groups such as the Taliban and ignore it because that might mean that terrorism and sadism really exists that can't be blamed on the US. Terrorism works because the international political environment relies solely upon the principle of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" when deciding how to handle the problems. Its past the time for the US and others to remove all of their troops from the middle east and other trouble spots and let them sort their own problems out and kill each other in peace. But also issue a warning saying any support of an extraterritorial terrorist attack originating from within these areas, whether it be financial, moral, or man-power will guarantee the immediate destruction of a randomly selected city or geographical location without the slightest regard for damage or casualties. No boots on the ground or dropping warning leaflets just boom.

Re:The result of an old threat

[NoSleepDemon]

While they did make a fantastic film about that, it's a flawed concept. Consider what might happen if the US got their intel wrong (shock!) and bombed the wrong people in retaliation, or if fanatical US citizens orchestrated a bombing to place the blame on culture x that they really don't like.

Re:The result of an old threat

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Where would he have been deported to that he would have been killed when he'd arrived?

2. Now he truly is a suspected terrorist, affiliated with the bombing or not. Anyone say self-fulfilling prophecy?

In Norway? REALLY?

Re:The result of an old threat

[Anonymous Coward]

Mistranslation here: He said that if he was deported and killed as a result of it, a government ministed could get killed too. But he has not been deported, and not been killed (although he's been charged with terrorism). But it would be an understatement to say that the Police Security Services (PST) are aware of this guy. He is not in a position to coordinate terror attacks, nor, I suspect, is his fairly small Iraqi Kurd extremist group.

Re:The result of an old threat

[Anonymous Coward]

My point is terrorist should have never been dealt with any differently than any other criminal. That's what they are - serial murders. The motivation behind their crimes is secondary. Every serial killer has their reasons.

As soon as you start treating terrorists as some sort of a military force, you will destroy your own society in pursuit of the invisible enemy. Terrorism should be pursued by the police and Interpol. If they, the terrorist's masters, are located in nations that are friendly to them, use CIA/MI6/sanctions/whatever to deal with the threat.

The entire purpose of terrorist is to upset the status-quo. To make the target "suffer as they have suffered". How to prevent terrorism is another subject. But just like killers out there, you cannot stop all terrorist actions all the time. And that's not even the important part. The important part is how to deal with them in the aftermath.

The Norwegian government should come out, stating that the police is on the case in this criminal act. They should also state that government policies will *never* be affected by these criminals and that they are returning to work tomorrow discussing labor laws or whatever they were discussing..

The society will only ever win against terrorism if the society learns to ignore them and let the crime stoppers (the police) do their jobs in the confines of the constitution.

But also issue a warning saying any support of an extraterritorial terrorist attack originating from within these areas, whether it be financial, moral, or man-power will guarantee the immediate destruction of a randomly selected city or geographical location without the slightest regard for damage or casualties. No boots on the ground or dropping warning leaflets just boom.

Seems like a very easy way to start WWIII aka doomsday. Are you saying that few dozen random, organized people can start the end of the world? The world is a cinder box as is.

Re:The result of an old threat

[ArcherB]

Its past the time for the US and others to remove all of their troops from the middle east and other trouble spots and let them sort their own problems out and kill each other in peace.

Hey! That's is exactly what we did in Afghanistan. How did that work out?

Re:The result of an old threat

[Hognoxious]

The only reason he is still here is that we do not extradite people to countries where they risk the death penalty

Perhaps if you did then the criminals who flee to your country would have an incentive to be on their best behaviour while they're there.

Re:The result of an old threat

[elrous0]

Its past the time for the US and others to remove all of their troops from the middle east and other trouble spots and let them sort their own problems

That would work fine if the radical elements of Islam were content to stay where they're at. But the various radical Islamist movements in the last few decades have shown a great deal of ambition at taking over and radicalizing more and more countries (not just in the middle east, but asia and africa as well). Those ambitions were bound to clash with the west eventually.

The problem with the west is that we really don't know how to fight global wars anymore and aren't really comfortable facing certain kinds of problems. WWII was a long time ago, and we just don't seem to have the stones anymore to take on a large scale threat. We're also too politically-correct to acknowledge some hard realities about the nature of this conflict. No one wants to be the guy to admit that radical Islamists aren't just some tiny minority movement. In large swaths of the Muslim world, they are a dominant force (and a real threat). The modern west really likes to respect religion, and we have made that our dominant model (for the most part) for a some time now. The thought of anything resembling a holy war makes the western world VERY uncomfortable. Unfortunately, a large portion of the Muslim world doesn't share that tolerant attitude.

Not saying that had anything to do with this particular attack. For all we know, this attack could have come from some local Norwegian political terrorists. And I'm hesitant to jump to any conclusions until more information is known.

Re:The result of an old threat

[MightyMartian]

Except this isn't a war. It's an international criminal conspiracy. Whether they're blowing up people for cocaine, guns or religion, it amounts to the same thing. The one thing we do know for sure is that armies suck at law enforcement.

Re:The result of an old threat

[Oligonicella]

"My point is terrorist should have never been dealt with any differently than any other criminal. That's what they are - serial murders. The motivation behind their crimes is secondary. Every serial killer has their reasons."

You mean, other than the international support network, right? They aren't just any other criminals. Their own words and actions belie that.
"few dozen random, organized people"
Pardon?

Finally, reacting to an attack is not the equivalent to starting WWIII. Interesting you didn't equate launching the attack as the equivalent.

Re:The result of an old threat

[MightyMartian]

I'm confused. Why was the guy ever allowed into Norway to begin with?

Re:The result of an old threat

[MightyMartian]

Which isn't to say some other group didn't decide to do a little terror work on his behalf. It's not like Al Qaeda goes and asks "Excuse me, Mr. Similar-Minded Extremist Cleric, would you terribly mind if we tried to blow up the Norwegian Prime Minister on your behalf?"

Re:The result of an old threat

[elrous0]

My point is terrorist should have never been dealt with any differently than any other criminal. That's what they are - serial murders.

Serial murderers in police actions are generally criminals who live on the fringes of, or even completely outside the boundaries of, the society around them. Radical terrorists in the middle east, asia, and africa are often state-supported, publicly-renowned, and officially protected. The Taliban government protected and harbored Al-Quaida in 2001, for example (and there is strong evidence that the Pakistani government still does today). In Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, and many other countries they enjoy quasi-official or even official status. Trying to treat them like mere criminals is silly under those circumstances. It's not like the U.S. could go to the Taliban government after 9-11 and say "We have a warrant for these members of Al-Quaida, please extradite them to us" and get anything but laughter in response.

Much as I hate it, military action is warranted under those circumstances. I just wish that we had had a leader who would have been strong and smart enough to hit Afghanistan (and possibly Pakistan) hard and focused after 9-11. Instead we had a weak leader manipulated by advisers who treated Afghanistan as a temporary distraction from chasing their own selfish oil development interests in Iraq, taking the conflict hopelessly off-track at a time when it needed to be strong, clear, and focused.

Re:The result of an old threat

[elrous0]

You do the scale of these movements a disservice by dismissing this as a mere criminal enterprise. Criminals generally live on the fringes of society. The movements we're talking about here enjoy state sanction and support in many countries of the Muslim world. You can't present an arrest warrant to a government that is actively supporting, protecting, and encouraging the very people you are trying to arrest. Imagine the absurdity of the U.S. presenting arrest warrants for Al-Quaida to the Taliban government after 9-11. This is far more serious than any mere criminal movement, and cannot be treated as a simple police action.

And if you think soldiers make for bad cops, you should see how badly cops do at invading countries.

Re:The result of an old threat

[MightyMartian]

Look at Mexico. Large scale criminal cartels exist too.

Re:The result of an old threat

[elrous0]

That pales in comparison to what we are talking about with the radical Islamist movements of the last several decades. And the Mexican government (at least at the federal level) has made it brutally clear of late that those cartels do not enjoy official government sanction.

Re:The result of an old threat

[MightyMartian]

Most of these organizations are in fact domestic in character, with some links, not unlike how the IRA, the PLO and various South American guerilla groups were all helping each other out. This kind of network is not a new thing.

Re:The result of an old threat

[Anonymous Coward]

Its past the time for the US and others to remove all of their troops from the middle east and other trouble spots and let them sort their own problems out and kill each other in peace.

Hey! That's is exactly what we did in Afghanistan. How did that work out?

Hmm, I don't recall US having troops in Afghanistan prior to end of 2001. And I certainly don't recall US pulling many of said troops after 2001.

Or are you referring to the Soviet troops in Afghanistan in the 1980s and the US providing material and financial support to the Mujaheddin through Pakistan, which included Bin Laden, under the pretense of "enemy of my enemy is my friend" and "payback for Vietnam" ?? Then when Soviet Union withdrew in 1990, all the money to support the war simply stopped, where the US told their friends to "fuck off". Is this what you are referring to??

I may be confused, but did you mean Soviet troops were actually US troops? OR did you mean that supporting extremists in the first place was a bad idea? Sorry, I'm quite confused by your post.

Re:The result of an old threat

[SwedishPenguin]

It looks like the "policeman" who gunned down dozens of youths at the Social Democratic youth camp was also seen in central Oslo moments before the explosions, and witness reports state that he spoke a dialect of Norwegian coming from the eastern part of the country. It sounds to more more like the work of a right-wing extremist than islamist extremists. This could be Norway's "Timothy McVeigh"..

Re:The result of an old threat

[MartinSchou]

Indeed.

We only have to look at the United States to see just how effective the death penalty is for preventing capital offenses.

Re:The result of an old threat

[CheerfulMacFanboy]

The US still harbors Anti-Castro terrorists who killed dozens. Maybe you should start cleaning your own house?

BTW, who issued the first international arrest warrant against Osama Bin Laden? The US? Any other Western country? Nope - Libya.

Re:The result of an old threat

[beowulfcluster]

According to Europol, only 3 of the 249 confirmed terrorist acts in Europe last year had islamic connections, so maybe we shouldn't be so quick to jump to conclusions, eh?

Re:The result of an old threat

[Man Eating Duck]

2. undermine their own freedoms in their own fear of the "enemy", stop trusting one another and view anyone that appears different as the "enemy". This is the aim of the terrorist, not the initial damage.

I have a reasonable hope that the Norwegian government won't panic and impose restrictions based on this. As a matter of fact our PM is making a public statement just now where he just said "We shall *not* be cowed [by intimidations of violence]". Incidentally there are no evidence that this is an islamist action, in fact there are strong indications that both the bombing and the shootings might be perpetrated by a lone Norwegian lunatic.

Re:The result of an old threat

[SwedishPenguin]

Oh absolutely, the media is very gullible and for some reason likes to further the view of terrorism as a solely Islamic thing, hence why they believe the first group of attention seeking crackpots to claim responsibility, especially if they fit into their view of what a terrorist should look like. (it seems now that the group that claimed. responsibility already retracted the statement though)
From the moment I heard of the attack on the Social Democrat youth camp (the government is also controlled by the social democrats), I suspected homegrown right-wing extremists, but the media didn't mention that as even a possibility and kept parroting the Islam angle (especially international media, the Norwegian and Swedish media that I've followed has been slightly more restrictive as to the culprit than the New York Times which went all out and announced that an Islamic group had claimed responsibility). And now that the "policeman" has been seen on both scenes and appears to be a blonde Norwegian man, that just further confirms my suspicions of homegrown terrorism.

Re:The result of an old threat

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you serious? Mexican cartels pale in comparison to organized terrorist groups? At a minimum they're as bad as the terrorist groups, and in any case they're at least as well armed as or better armed than the terrorists and they're for damn sure better financed. I'm fairly certain if you were to pit drug cartels in a fight against terrorists then the drug cartels would come out on top.

Re:The result of an old threat

[Anonymous Coward]

We only have to look at the United States to see just how effective the death penalty is for preventing capital offenses.

Please show me one or more instances wherein a person who has had their death sentence carried out has gone on to commit further capital offenses. I'll wait.

Re:The result of an old threat

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

This is a right-wing/Mossad operation against Norway. The shooter at the AUF camp was a blonde European. Norway is supporting full recognition as a state by the UN.

On 10.07.2002, Mrs. Eva Kristin Hansen, the leader of the Norwegian Labor Party Youth Movement (AUF), called upon the Attorney General of Norway to investigate whether "Israel's Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and other Israeli leaders can be put on trial for crimes they committed" (http://norskisraelsenter.no/engl/auf-sharon-vg-engl.htm). Kristin explained that this AUF demand for an indictment comes in light of "...killing of ambulance personnel, occasional destruction of civil targets and the illegal execution of civilians".

Less than a day after this AUF petition was sent to the court, Norwegian former Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg (Labor) spoke before the AUF and attacked Israel. NIS notes that it was not so long ago - 20.4.2002 -, that Stoltenberg gave a speech attacking Israel, while Nazi Swastikas and other horrible anti-Jewish banners were held up in front of the Norwegian parliament (http://norskisraelsenter.no/engl/ap-stoltenberg-eng.htm). Such symbols are otherwise forbidden for use in demonstrations organized by Neo-Nazis.

NIS is aware of the important position that the AUF has in the political life of Norway, particularly concerning the Norwegian Labor Party. AUF has produced many important leaders of the Labor Party. Naturally, their opinions influence their environment and Norway.

As young AUF members, future central Norwegian Labor Party leaders, called in 1971 for the destruction of Israel: "The qualification for lasting peace must be that Israel cease to exist as a Jewish state". (As quoted by Haakon Lie, former Secretary General of the Norwegian Labor Party, in his book: Slik Jeg Ser Det - As I See It - part II, p. 132.)

Re:The result of an old threat

[IrquiM]

This is the guy:
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002651290254

Religious views: Christian
'nuf said! - It's the Norwegian counter part of Timothy McWeigh. Nothing to do with Al Queda or any other Arab connection - more similarities with the Norwegian "Tea-Party"-look-a-likes.

Re:The result of an old threat

[shutdown -p now]

Hey! That's is exactly what we did in Afghanistan. How did that work out?

It went great (for the West, not for the locals) until, for some mysterious reason, US decided to go back in from where Soviets had left.

Re:The result of an old threat

[cusco]

Organizational support network? Give me a break. That's called Hotmail/Gmail/Yahoo, CitiBank/BOA/CreditSuisse, VISA/Mastercard and Skype. If the terriers need $5000 to buy ingredients for ANFO they'll hit their cash machine for ten days straight and they're set. If they want to coordinate a date for an attack they'll send a .jpg of a calendar with a day circled. This stuff ain't rocket surgery any more. The days of cashiers checks and dead drops are long gone.

And yes, a "few dozen random, organized people" is a bit of an exaggeration. A dozen people scattered around the country armed with second hand deer rifles could take down the entire US power grid. Half a dozen with rented/stolen backhoes could shut down natural gas delivery to New England some February. A force no larger than 20 could take control of pretty much any US nuclear power plant.

No, a non-governmental force, terrorist or mercenary, should not be sufficient to cause a military reaction against another country. Or do you think that the actions of a non-representative force, such as Blackwater or Ansar al-Islam, is reason enough for air strikes?

Re:The result of an old threat

[cusco]

"It's not like the U.S. could go to the Taliban government after 9-11 and say "We have a warrant for these members of Al-Quaida, please extradite them to us" and get anything but laughter in response."

Actually the laughter went the other way. After the attacks the Taliban offered to hand over Binladdin **THREE TIMES** to a neutral country if the US would provide any evidence of his connection. Instead Shrub's administration essentially said, "We don't need no stinkin' evidence, give him to us because we say so." Whether the Taliban would have been able to deliver or not is something else entirely.

The Italian government has been asking the US for the extradition of several individuals known to have carried out the kidnapping of people in Italy, which IIRC resulted in deaths. Unfortunately for the Italians and for justice in general the kidnappers worked for the CIA so it's not going to happen. Should the Italians carry out an air strike on Langley?

Re:The result of an old threat

[riverat1]

How fast is the media in the US going to drop the story once they figure out it wasn't Islamic terrorism?

Re:The result of an old threat

[Cant use a slash wtf]

You realise that would mean just turning into terrorists ourselves, right?
The thinking behind terrorists attacks is generally "I dislike what you are doing so much so that I'm going to blow up this random bunch of civilians".
Now your idea is to use that exact philosophy ON THE TERRORISTS, potentially harming thousands of innocent civilians and possibly even breeding more terrorists.

I'm not going to pretend I know how to stop terrorism, but I'm fairly certain it doesn't involve using the same philosophy they're using; the only result I can picture coming from that method would be a never-ending shit-throwing fight between terrorist organizations and government pretending not to be terrorist organizations.

Re:The result of an old threat

[Anonymous Coward]

Gee you can say that part two again, and again and again. This so called "ACT of Terrorism" has the hallmarks of a 9/11 reverse who done it scenario designed to bring the population to submit to draconian governmental microscopic intrusions and scrutiny of and rule of law constraints against otherwise allowed human behaviors.
Its the patriotic act scenario all over again. SEE SENMACE.com.

Re:The result of an old threat

[Anonymous Coward]

How is "oh noes it's teh Arabs" working out for you now that it turned out to be a blond Norwegian fundie christian?

Re:The result of an old threat

[Anonymous Coward]

This was not the deed of a Muslim terrorist, this was a deed of a Christian, Libertarian terrorist.

You shouldn't be so fast to jump to conclusions. Even the first (Norse) news-reports was about a long, blond, and Nordic looking terrorist, speaking Norse without any foreign accent. Although there is actually some long, blond, Nordic looking native Norsemen that have converted to Islam, they are very few in numbers and very unlikely to become terrorists.

That said, Norway is the most Christian country among the Nordic countries. More then half of the population is of Christian faith. If I remember correct, almost 10% of the Norse adult population is opposed to the idea of natural evolution, that is unique among Nordic countries, in other Nordic countries those opposed to idea of natural evolution is fewer then 2% and mostly consist of religious immigrants and almost no natives. The Norse Christians are also recruiting and growing fast in numbers. [As an example of the situation in other Nordic countries, the Muslim population in Sweden is about 8% (mostly refugees from current war zones) and most of them believe natural evolution to be a sound theory, whereas most Catholic (less then 1 promille of the Swedish population) or Orthodox Christians (most of them was refugees from the wars in former Yugoslavia (and most of those that sought a refugee then, have returned home since the area become more stable) and is less then 1% of the population) don't believe in natural evolution; in Sweden too, Christianity is growing, but very slowly, mostly because of US based missionaries (there are several hundreds of them, perhaps even thousands, that may not sound that much, but the Swedish population consist of only 9.4 million people)].

Many of the Norse Christians (or at least those that make most noice) are in fierce opposition to those who strive for a traditional Norse/Nordic secular society. The rhetoric of Christian spokespersons is much more aggressive then what is traditional in Nordic public debates. They might have inspired this violence.

Re:The result of an old threat

[Risen888]

What the fuck are you talking about? That's exactly the opposite of what we did in Afghanistan. We shoveled arms and money at the mujahadeen for years, because back then they were blowing up Russians. That's where al Qaida came from. Your tax dollars at work. Your comment displays not the slightest understanding of history.

Re:The result of an old threat

[BenEnglishAtHome]

A force no larger than 20 could take control of pretty much any US nuclear power plant.

I agree with most of your examples but not this one. The security forces assigned to nuclear plants are variable in their skills, of course, but they are generally capable of fending off an attack by well-equipped, well-trained bad guys. Think "trained as well as Blackwater" without all the ideological baggage. The folks who carry the assault rifles at our nuclear plants are a pretty sharp bunch.

Re:The result of an old threat

[Anonymous Coward]

His page is no longer up.

Update from local news (NRK)

[o_source]

So far there is confirmed 2 dead and 15 injured by NRK news. It is confirmed that it was a car bomb.

Re:Update from local news (NRK)

[Anonymous Coward]

15 injured by NRK news.

I've heard of hard-hitting news, but this is ridiculous!

Re:And this is on /. why?

[zacs]

While there tends to be a nerd slant, I think the general lean is towards stories that matter to people. There are numerous examples of historical stories that didn't have a tech lean where there were still extremely interesting and informative discussions that followed.

Looks like

[ArchieBunker]

The religion of peace has struck again.

Re:Looks like

[geekoid]

Would you agree that they are a bunch or meat heads?

Re:Looks like

[Anonymous Coward]

Westboro hates Vikings!

Re:Looks like

[mikael_j]

Not necessarily, if the shooting at the social democrat youth camp just now (by a fake police officer) is related then I'm betting on local nazi crackpots...

Re:Looks like

[Anonymous Coward]

Religion has done it again.

Re:Looks like

[Anonymous Coward]

No but then again the bible does not directly tell me to murder people who do not believe in it. For every one abortion bombing I bet you could find 100 muslim suicide bombings. I'm too lazy to locate statistics but its going to be a high ratio.

Re:Looks like

[geekoid]

Did you read the article? the part about the Muslim terrorists? no? I thought so.

Re:Looks like

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Extremists have done it again.

FTFY.

Re:Looks like

[Anonymous Coward]

Because we hear about Christian extremists blowing up abortion clinics every day!

Wait, No.

Week?

No.

Month?

No.

Year?

No.

You may want to look into the level of death & destruction before trying to draw parallels and looking like an idiot.

Re:Looks like

[mikael_j]

The BBC article? Yes, but I've also been following Norwegian and Swedish news and who did this has yet to be confirmed, what has been confirmed though is that there has also been a shooting at a social democrat youth camp, and for some reason the nordic neo-nazis hate social democrats which is why I pointed out that if these events were related then this makes it a lot more likely that this is a domestic terrorism incident and not islamic terrorists.

Re:Looks like

[h4rr4r]

LUKE 19:27
"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them - bring them here and kill them in front of me."

Re:Looks like

[Anonymous Coward]

Someday we're going to have to wipe out the muslims. That's what they are trying to do to us it seems....
You cant fight a war by saying 'i support your diverse religon and respect it even tho you're trying to kill us all'.

Re:Looks like

[h4rr4r]

A bombing is a bombing. Just because they do it less often does not mean they don't do it. I like how you slipped extremists in there, No True Scotsman, aye?

Re:Looks like

[Anonymous Coward]

I do. It's not all christians that do that, but the bombers all use christianity as an excuse.

Without that safety blanket, they'd just be considered a regular terrorist, and groups that either condone, appreciate, or accept that form of statement could then be dealt with properly. As it stands, no one can touch or say anything about the group.

Re:Looks like

[Attila Dimedici]

You do know that you are taking that completely out of context, right? It is words that were put into the mouth of a character in a parable Jesus told. In the context of the parable, the most likely interpretation is that it represents God speaking on the Day of Judgement, which is at some indefinite time in the future.

Re:Looks like

[Jonner]

The religion of peace has struck again.

It doesn't sound like anyone has claimed responsibility or any likely perpetrator has been identified by authorities.

Re:Looks like

[h4rr4r]

1. Same thing people do with the Koran.
2. Killing people is killing people. So murdering people in the future for not believing in your god is ok, but doing it now is not?

Re:Looks like

[toriver]

Are they? There are 1.3 billion muslims, I don't see more than a scant few doing terrorist acts, and they tend to kill other Muslims.

You are moving into "we must kill the Jews to save Europe" territory. No wonder you post as an anonymous coward.

Re:Looks like

[rubycodez]

every major religion in world has groups of followers that do violence, even the Hindus and Buddhists. I've heard even groups of atheists have done similar. who'd have thunk, humans can be violent SOBs, individually or acting in groups?

Re:Looks like

[operagost]

"Ninety percent of the Bible quotations you read on the internet are either incorrect or totally taken out of context." - Martin Luther

Re:Looks like

[ThurstonMoore]

Nordic neo-nazis now that sounds like a surly bunch.

Re:Looks like

[rubycodez]

But you shall utterly destroy them: the Hittite and the Amorite, the Canaanite and the Perizzite, the Hivite and the Jebusite, as the Lord your God has commanded you, so that they may not teach you to do according to all their detestable things which they have done for their gods, so that you would sin against the Lord your God”(Deuteronomy 20:16–18)

There are several other instances in the Bible where God commands the destruction of the unbeliever.

Re:Looks like

[rubycodez]

Nonsense, how many of the billion are trying to do that? We have over two million muslims in america, are they constantly blowing up shit? are you seeing them beating christians in the street? your hatred had caused you to create scapegoats out of innocent people.

Re:Looks like

[Nadaka]

You have not read the bible then. The bible explicitly commands you to convert or kill non believers.

Re:Looks like

[geirlk]

Vikings don't believe in Westboro's weak god

Re:Looks like

[Duradin]

That statement is why the Lutheran Vatican keeps his prophecies locked away.

Re:Looks like

[Attila Dimedici]

1. Are you saying that the Koran does not command the killing of "infidels"? That it is merely passages taken out of context?
2. There are more theologians who have interpreted Jesus' teachings as calling for nonviolence then there are theologians who have interpreted Jesus' teachings as calling for the slaughter of nonbelievers. I am quite confident that the same cannot be said of the teachings of Mohammed (although I would be pleasantly surprised to discover that I am mistaken).

Re:Looks like

[darkmeridian]

I don't have a problem with Islam being abused by psychopaths because every group has its nuts. But I'm concerned with moderate or run of the mill Muslims who refuse to reject Islamic terrorism. I know quite a few Muslims who get angry whenever someone refers to Islam sarcastically as the religion of peace, but then make excuses for terrorists, i.e., "desperate people do desperate things" or "why do you think Bin Laden was behind 9/11â"it could have been the US government."

I know it's awkward to require members of a group to denounce its radicals but I just don't see this happening amongst Muslims. CAIR condemns racism and discrimination but doesn't condemn the acts of terrorism itself as being counter to the teachings of Islam.

Re:Looks like

[geirlk]

"Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami (Helpers of Global Jihad) seem to make a claim of responsibility. They claim it is in response to the occupation of Afghanistan and insults to the Prophet Mohammed. It has come via Shmukh, an elite jihadi forum".

That said, I think one should be careful to diff between the act of individuals, groups and entire religions.

Re:Looks like

[MozeeToby]

"The problem with the internet is that anyone can make a claim and never have to back it up" - Abraham Lincoln

Re:Looks like

[Anonymous Coward]

"You shall not murder.". -- So important it was written in stone.

Re:Looks like

[snspdaarf]

Nordic neo-nazis now that sounds like a surly bunch.

Show me what's in your wallet, motherfucker!

Re:Looks like

[Mashiki]

Well it happened after friday afternoon prayers. I'll place an equal bet that it was the "religion of peace." There's a far and long demonstrated history that after friday prayers, that the most blood thirsty and horrific terrorist attacks happen around the world.

Re:Looks like

[Anonymous Coward]

Those are Jewish texts.

Re:Looks like

[elsurexiste]

Really? Skywalker was an asshole!

Re:Looks like

[Hognoxious]

No, GP was right.

Linux extremists don't blow up Apple stores.

Postgres extremists don't assassinate MySQL devs.

Fans of one football team don't try to blow up managers of rival teams. Well, not much.

Re:Looks like

[rubycodez]

Yes, two-thirds of the Christian Bible are those Old Testament "Jewish Texts".

Or, if you're of the "but we just pay attention to the New Testament" crowd, I'd still make the argument those are self-claimed to be Jewish texts too. Jesus, a sn of a Jewish woman and jewish rabbi (addressed as such and described as teaching at times in temple), who comes to extend and fulfill the Old Testament ("I come not to destroy the law but to fulfill"), gathers a bunch of Jewish men (the disciples) some of whom later write New Testament books, and appears to a Jew (Paul) and upgrades him to a Christian (who quotes many Old Testament texts in his instructions to the Churches).

The Bible, "those are Jewish Texts"

Re:Looks like

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Wow. Use your brain, dude. Seriously.

Re:Looks like

[Mashiki]

Too bad you can't edit posts. Oh well.

Here's the claim of 'responsibility': and via rs

Praise be to God Nasser slaves combined and humiliating the people of shirk and kufr companions, prayer and peace upon our Prophet Muhammad, the Seal of the Prophets, his family and companions and after

        The Almighty said: (then fight for God but do not cost yourself and rouse the believers may be that Allah keeps those who disbelieve and Allah is more powerful and in punishment) [women: 84]

        Here have reached the countries of Europe is another message from the militants and further proof of the countries of Europe that the Mujahideen will not stand idly towards their war against Islam and Muslims.

        Today has been targeting Norway to be a lesson and a lesson to the rest of Europe has already threatened us since the invasion of Stockholm more operations has asked European countries to withdraw their armies from the land of Afghanistan and stop its war against Islam and Muslims, and we repeat our warning again to the countries of Europe and tell them carried out the demands of the mujahideen, what you see is only the beginning and the next more.

        The reasons for the targeting of Norway there are many of the most important of their participation in the occupation of Afghanistan and the abuse of our Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).

        Praise God that enabled slaves to the combined .. and pray to God to save our brothers and our fighters everywhere.
        Glory and praise God I bear witness that no god but You Astgrk and I repent to you.

Re:Looks like

[Oligonicella]

And that excuse fails them here in the US. Even edge Christian groups condemn them, the FBI does label them terrorists, and you have not a fucking clue as to their immunity as there have been arrests, trials and convictions. What planet are you from?

Re:Looks like

[Estanislao Mart�nez]

1. Are you saying that the Koran does not command the killing of "infidels"? That it is merely passages taken out of context?

Well, duh. I'm not a Muslim, and I know that much. The Koran has a lot of passages about fighting wars with enemies of Islam, who were a combination of pagans, Christians and Jews. However, it also has passages about treating Christians and Jews fairly and allowing them practice their religions, and passages stating that they can achieve salvation (or whatever the Islamic equivalent, not sure here). And more generally, it has passages about not picking fights with people who don't pick fights with you.

So, well, the straightforward conclusion here is that the Koran says a lot of different things about the relationship between Muslims and non-Muslims, and that the context in which each of those things is said needs to be weighed to see which of them best match any given situation. As, well, every single damn book ever written to guide human behavior.

PS: Muslims do not generally consider Christians and Jews to be "infidels." Rather, they consider them to be people who believe in the same god as Muslims, received the same teachings that Mohammed did, but then lost or distorted them. You will of course find plenty of counterexamples to this rule—"Christian = infidel" is an Islamist terrorist theme—but it's by no means a majority opinion. So I'm not interested in responses that document Muslims who have labeled Christians as "infidels"—I know they exist, and I know it's a minority opinion.

PPS: The fact the the Koran periodically has nice things to say about non-Muslims doesn't mean that all Muslims in general will have a good opinion of Christians and Jews; I'm not interested in responses that document cases of Muslims saying bad things about non-Muslims, mistreating them or showing prejudices toward them. In fact, the Koran's nicer statements about non-Muslims often seem like attempts to correct early Muslims' pre-existing prejudices and ill will against them. Take, for example, the Koran's statement that the food of the Peoples of the Book (Christians and Jews) is OK for Muslims to eat. Why would such a rule need to be stated? Well, some early Muslims must have seen some forms of physical contact with Christians as taboo. Similar comments apply where it says that you should not fight or kill non-Muslims who haven't tried to do the same to you: "Don't kill Christians and Jews" must have been a teaching that needed to be taught in Mohammed's time as much as in ours. Religion exists in a harsh, often brutal world of people who adopt it more as a tribal identity than as a moral guide.

Re:Looks like

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah, so the Bible doesn't advocate for the killing of infidels as much as the Koran does so therefore it's ok!

Re:Looks like

[myth24601]

You are being misleading by trying to represent the command given by one character in a parable that Jesus told as a command by Jesus himself to literally go and kill people.

Re:Looks like

[h4rr4r]

1. Of course. and Christians are not infidels anyway.
2. I bet a Muslim would disagree. You probably just know more Christian theologians.

Re:Looks like

[CheerfulMacFanboy]

Update: Abu Sulayman has now issued a retraction, stating clearly that “Helpers” was not involved in the operation and that his statement was not an official statement. He says those who carried out the attacks “must surely be known to all.” http://www.jihadica.com/alleged-claim-for-oslo-attacks/

Re:Looks like

[Attila Dimedici]

I have never heard of a Muslim theologian who claimed that the Koran teaches nonviolence. If you have, please give me a reference.

Re:Looks like

[Carewolf]

Nordic neo-nazis now that sounds like a surly bunch.

Yep. Norway is the origin and main producer of Nazi Death Metal music.

Re:Looks like

[geirlk]

Here's an update: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/norways-capital-shaken-by-bomb-blast/2011/07/22/gIQABA6dTI_story.html

Turns out this has been a twofold attack. First the bomb was set off in Oslo. About two hours later a camp for political youth from the governing labor party was attacked by a single assailant with a "machine gun", glock and a shotgun. He was dresses as a police officer.
7 has so far been confirmed dead in the bombing
10 has been killed in the shooting at the camp, mostly 15-16 years old. More are suspected.
There are several unexploded bombs at the youth camp. The whole camp is held on a little island in a lake, only accessible by boat. Several kids trying to run away by swimming are suspected drowned.

Turns out the attacker are a Norwegian, suspected neo nazi, and fundamentalist christian. With a gun permit. He's been arrested.
This is the suspect according to the newspapers https://twitter.com/#!/AndersBBreivik

What a horrible day indeed :(

Re:Looks like

[shutdown -p now]

You probably meant to reference National Socialist black metal. Norway is not particularly known for its contributions to the death metal scene (Sweden is).

Re:Looks like

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry to burst your redneck bubble but this was an act of local deranged nutjobs of the developed-world variety.

Re:Looks like

[Hognoxious]

So, no counter to the actual facts, just an ad hominem. Awesome debating skills.

Re:Looks like

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, apparently. The perpetrator calls himself christian on his facebook profile.

Re:Looks like

[Anonymous Coward]

Well it happened after friday afternoon prayers. I'll place an equal bet that it was the "religion of peace." There's a far and long demonstrated history that after friday prayers, that the most blood thirsty and horrific terrorist attacks happen around the world.You lost.

You lost the 'bet' (sic(k)).

Re:Looks like

[geirlk]

Yet another little update.

The death toll at the island Utøya has now reached 84. All kids. That's sobering.

To put it in perspective: It's twice as many killed per capita as on 9/11. That's a staggering loss for a little nation like ours (not that that lessens the horrific act that was 9/11).

Re:Looks like

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Wait, you were seriously using that as an argument?

Re:Looks like

[Anonymous Coward]

That's because the Muslim theologians know that the peaceful-sounding passages that they read to Westerners to try to convince us that their religion is a peaceful religion are abrogated by the passages later in the Koran which tell them to kill us. I wouldn't waste much time arguing with h4rr4r if I were you, though.

Re:Looks like

[Anonymous Coward]

No, he's being a moron, but for h4rr4r that's not unusual. I don't know if he's really a violently anti-Christian troll, or if he just plays one on Slashdot when he's bored.

Re:Looks like

[chrb]

The religion of peace has struck again.

Turns out the killer is a right-wing Christian who hates Muslims: "On his Facebook profile, Breivik describes himself as a Christian and a conservative."

So I guess you were right - the religion of peace has indeed struck again.

Re:Looks like

[h4rr4r]

Mod me troll, but facts prove me insightful.
This was a crime perpetrated by a Christian, you racists.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-07-24/search-continues-after-utoya-massacre/2807666/?site=melbourne

Re:Looks like

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's a few facts for you: -you dont know what extreme means. (Ill give you a hint. Your response was extremely dumb and didnt involve you blowing up abortion clinics) -you didnt think through the ramifications of your statement. If religion is the cause, then the USA is a huge war-torn battleground, correct? -one of your examples defeated your whole point. The assessment was correct, your brain was not in use when you wrote that. Its amusing that you would want to debate on a foundation that has already crumbled.

Re:Looks like

[geirlk]

Wikipedia is updating the following page continuously:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks

Re:Looks like

[Onymous Coward]

I said to you earlier:

Most people understand that just because another person is different doesn't mean that that other person is evil and needs to be fought. It's kind of ironic, actually... See, if you fear others, it makes you more suspicious, more likely to "protect" yourself by gearing up for a fight, more likely to condemn them, more likely to attack them. If you fear people who are different, you become the thing that you fear.

To fear and contemn is to be a source of suffering. If you're generally fearful, you are going to see bogeymen out there, whether there actually are any. You may lash out at what looks to you like bogeymen ... and hit innocent people instead.

Chances are the bogeymen you see, Muslims, are mostly innocent. Just like how Christians are mostly innocent and this murderous Christian is one of the exceptionally fearful, narrow-minded extremists. I recommend you broaden your experience and get to know some of the innocent and kind Muslims.

Re:Looks like

[CheerfulMacFanboy]

"You shall not murder.". -- So important it was written in stone.

And what happened right after Moses came back with those stone tablets? (Exodus 32)

27 Then he said to them, “This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: ‘Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.’”

28 The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died.

29 Then Moses said, “You have been set apart to the LORD today, for you were against your own sons and brothers, and he has blessed you this day.”

Re:Looks like

[Anonymous Coward]

So right after the command was given "thou shalt not murder", a bunch of people weren't murdered. Do you have a point, or are you just stupid?

Re:Looks like

[CheerfulMacFanboy]

So right after the command was given "thou shalt not murder", a bunch of people weren't murdered. Do you have a point, or are you just stupid?

Yes, they weren't "murdered" - because the Bible commands the killing of infidels. QED

Re:Looks like

[Anonymous Coward]

~QED: Those were not "infidels". They were the Israelites' "brother and friend and neighbor". They were not non-believers; they were believers who had openly rebelled. Do try to keep up; this really isn't that difficult to understand.

Re:Looks like

[CheerfulMacFanboy]

You must be sooo glad the Bible doesn't command the killing of morons.

Re:Looks like

[Anonymous Coward]

You must be sooo glad the Bible doesn't command the killing of infidels.

Re:Looks like

[Anonymous Coward]

Um, the "facts" prove that he is a "right-wing conservative" in a region that's so liberal that they consider American liberals to be right-wing conservatives by comparison (and a lot of Europeans like to brag about this), and he was a "Christian" in a country where the official state religion is still the Evangelical Lutheran Church. How exactly does that prove that he was actually very conservative or Christian?

But obviously those facts never bothered anyone in the media who's going around proclaiming that he's a "right-wing conservative Christian fundamentalist". "Fundamentalist" - now there's a completely unnecessary word.

Re:Looks like

[Hognoxious]

I wouldn't bother logging on if I didn't have any facts, MobileTwatu.

Re:Looks like

[Hognoxious]

Islamic terrorism:
Sep 11 2001: 3000 fatalities
Mar 11 2004: 191
Jul 7 2005: 52

Abortion clinics:
Total, ever: 8.

So GP is indeed wrong. His figures are a gross understatement.

Couldn't be blowback

[buttfuckinpimpnugget]

I'm sure it had absolutely nothing to do with this: http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/europe/news/article_1644803.php/Norway-to-scale-back-contribution-to-Libya-no-fly-zone-operation and everything to do with them hating Norway for their freedom.

Re:Not clear, yet, that it's terrorism.

[neongrau]

on german news they said there are no gas lines as norwegians solely use electric heating since they have an abundance of clean energy (water).

Re:Not clear, yet, that it's terrorism.

[audunr]

The police and explosives experts are saying that this was a bomb. And we do not have gas lines (for stoves etc).

Re:And this is on /. why?

[CRCulver]

It's funny how nowadays topical information (news for nerds) comes to Slashdot days after other internet news channels, while off-topic posts like this hit the front page only a couple of hours after the event.

Its two people now

[rbpOne]

Two people have died so far.
http://politiken.dk/udland/ECE1343139/bombe-var-aarsag-til-eksplosion/
(Link is in Danish)

Re:Its two people now

[rbpOne]

Its now seven:
http://ekstrabladet.dk/112/article1590624.ece
Link in danish

Re:This Is Not News For Nerds

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Stop being a jerk and shut up. Honestly, it's not like 'terrorism' isn't a big part of what we talk about or anything.

Are the sure it wasn't a can of Surströmming?

[Anonymous Coward]

Surströmming is bad for you in more then one way!

Re:Not clear, yet, that it's terrorism.

[The Wannabe King]

No. Gas usage is very uncommon in Norway. We just sell it and use electricity ourselves. The police has confirmed it is a bomb. At least two people are killed.

Should this be considered terrorist attack,

[Palpatine_li]

if they didn't hit a real civilian target but a government target, or even a military base?

Re:Should this be considered terrorist attack,

[crashumbc]

I've never seen anywhere where anyone has ever made a distinction between civilian vs government as far terrorism goes...

Re:Should this be considered terrorist attack,

[Toonol]

Really? I'd have thought it's an important distinction. Military and State resources and agents are qualitatively different targets than the civilian population, and many of our international treaties consider them as such.

I would still consider this a terrorist act, primarily because of the motivation... not to cripple enemy effectiveness, but to instill general fear in the population. However, it's different than an attack on, say, a public market.

Re:Should this be considered terrorist attack,

[Nidi62]

if they didn't hit a real civilian target but a government target, or even a military base?

So, when the plane crashed into the Pentagon on 9/11, that wasn't part of the terror attack?

Re:Looks like GLADIO!

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

...all countries of Western Europe, with the support of NATO, the CIA, and MI6, had set up stay-behind armies as precaution against a potential Soviet invasion. While the safety networks and the integrity of the majority of the secret soldiers should not be criticized in hindsight after the collapse of the Soviet Union, very disturbing questions do arise with respect to reported links to terrorism.

There exist large differences among the European countries, and each case must be analyzed individually in further detail. As of now, the evidence suggests the secret armies in the seven countries, Denmark, Finland, Norway, Luxemburg, Switzerland, Austria, and the Netherlands, focused exclusively on their stay-behind function and were not linked to terrorism. However, links to terrorism have been either confirmed or claimed in the nine countries, Italy, Ireland, Turkey, Germany, France, Spain, Portugal, Belgium, and Sweden, demanding further investigation."

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Operation_Gladio

Re:And this is on /. why?

[Palpatine_li]

Because this is in Norway? I thought only Finnish news get a blank pass for nerd news.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ninjas, pirates, cowboys, cyborgs, and vikings are /.'s top demographic categories.

Also shootings.

[FinchWorld]

Several people shot at UtÃya according to Dagbladet.no

Re:Also shootings.

[FinchWorld]

Apparently a man dressed as a policeman opened fire on a Labour party youth camp.

Re:Also shootings.

[audunr]

... where the youth organisation of prime minister Jens Stoltenberg's Labour Party are having their annual youth camp fight now. 700 people there, Stoltenberg was to speak there tomorrow.

Re:Also shootings.

[jandrese]

He was finally captured a few minutes ago. Apparently he looked Nordic, so this adds some credence to the "home grown right wing extremists" theory. So far there appear to be 5 dead in the shootings, but everybody is still in hiding (except for the ones that swam over to the mainland) so the bodycount has not been confirmed.

I'm impressed they were able to capture him alive. Frequently with gunmen like this they go out the Suicide by Cop way.

Re:Also shootings.

[Anonymous Coward]

This is what I suspect:

The guy is a real cop, not a fake one. He alone is responsible.
Norwegian Police is not armed unless a certain alarm is raised. The bomb blast would raise such alarm, giving him the opportunity to arm himself and then go for those kids at that political camp.

The blast hit senior politicians of the party having the camp.

We got ourselves a McVeigh.

Re:Also shootings.

[MightyMartian]

I don't think anyone yet knows who has done what. Being a blond blue-eyed Germanic type doesn't mean the guy isn't a Muslim, doesn't mean he is. It sounds to me at the moment like there's little knowledge of who is behind it. They've got the guy in custody, so I'm sure his role and at least some glimmering of the reason for this attack will be made clear.

Fucking awful though. I just read on the Daily Telegraph's blog that there may 20 or 30 bodies floating in the water near that island where the youth camp was being held.

Re:Also shootings.

[hitmark]

Yep, last thing needed right now is to jump to conclusions.

Re:Also shootings.

[Anonymous Coward]

Because your hoping its white, you racist pig

Maybe not clear enough

[techtech]

But an attack like this is big deal in Norway, I live nearby, and the blast has blasted the window in almost 1 km radius, check these images. This is the main government building in Norway: http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/norge/1.7722919

Re:Maybe not clear enough

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it is a big deal anywhere. The real question is why should this be dealt with any differently than any other criminal case? The facts don't lead me to think that civil liberties or freedoms should be curtailed in any way. Censorship is not needed either. There aren't that many people being impacted and almost nobody has died from the attacks. 9/11 killed more people and even that was insignificant. I mean no disrespect to those who died or were impacted. It is still a sad day when people are negatively impacted because society has marginalised a people or minority.

The only thing that would help improve the situation is a more moderate media. Mass media should feel obligated to limit reporting to the facts and avoid the use of words that lead people to think something is bad or horrendous. Leave that to individuals. There should be no laws created based on a sole case. No matter how disturbing it may be. This is letting emotions get in the way of logic.

Locking people up or murdering them (death penalty) doesn't add up financially or necessarily reduce risk to others. Neither does tracking individuals with GPS monitors and similar devices. Throwing dangerous people in jail can put other dangerous and less dangerous individuals at risk who are also incarcerated. Every person no matter what the crime deserves human dignity, respect, protection, and assistance.

Neo Nazis and child murders are no less deserving of rights and freedoms than anybody else. These individuals have unique situations that most of us have never encountered or had to deal with. Be it psychological or otherwise. Just remember that during world war 2 most Germans were involved in atrocities in some way. So were Americans. People find ways to defend and protect themselves. That might be blaming ills unjustly on other minorities.

Re:This Is Not News For Nerds

[Kjella]

*raises hand* In fact, I've walked past ground zero twice a day for the last couple of years.

Re:Not clear, yet, that it's terrorism.

[Jeng]

Do they use gas heating in buildings that large?

Re:Not clear, yet, that it's terrorism.

[wiredog]

Thanks! Get answers fast around here.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[Heed00]

The bomb was a phaser set to overload -- happy now?

More pictures

[techtech]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-14254095

And that makes it legit?

[Anonymous Coward]

if they didn't hit a real civilian target but a government target, or even a military base?

I see. So, if it were a government or military target it would be a legitimate and justifiable attack?

I'm looking through the news here and I don't see where Norway is at war with anyone and with regards to Libya, they're helping civilians via NATO get rid of an oppressive dictator that has been supported waay too long by the West because of our addiction to cheap oil.

Re:And that makes it legit?

[h4rr4r]

Some people like oppressive dictators.
Some are fighting to keep that asshole in power.

Re:And that makes it legit?

[flaming error]

> if it were a government or military target it would be a legitimate and justifiable attack?

GP never said that - please don't bring asinine political twist & spin tactics here.

Terrorism is generally understood to be random violence against civilians going about their daily business.

Whether an act of violence targeted against military or government is "legitimate and justifiable" is entirely in the eyes of the beholder. But it's not the same thing as an attack on a civilian crowd.

Re:And that makes it legit?

[Anonymous Coward]

A legitimate military or government target is usually not called terrorism (or shouldn't be, at any rate), it's an act of war instead. Killing civilians is called "collaterel damage". Otherwise all the civilians killed in most wars (like Iraq) would be considered terrorism kills (by the US, in Iraq's case) and that would just be inconvenient.

Re:And that makes it legit?

[Anonymous Coward]

Only works when you're a regular soldier of a nation, in uniform.

If you take part in combat street clothes, you're considered a spy or guerilla, and can expect to be executed on the battlefield.

THE GENEVA CONVENTION DOES NOT APPLY TO NUTJOBS COMMITTING RANDOM ACTS OF VIOLENCE OUTSIDE OF A FORMALLY DECLARED WAR. It does not apply to anyone in Gitmo. It doesn't apply to the somalian pirates who get their brains blown out.

Pirates, lone bombers, gunmen, militiamen... Don't have a right to expect anything but a bullet in the back of the skull.

This has been worked out after about 10,000 years of humans engaging in armed conflict. Thems the rules. Like it, or lump it. You want geneva protection? Enlist.

This is why it's on /.

[plsenjy]

Because it is much more reliable to get up-to-date news sources of the event from Norwegian nerds keeping up with international nerd zeitgeist than it is from America's idiot news media.

Should be under politics

[Shivetya]

if anywhere.

Then again, terrorism does affect nerds. I know many love to ignore it, but it is crap like this which ends up getting the laws passed that we do discuss and do not like.

So, I can see a connection. If we don't closely examine one of the source causes how are we ever to stop the erosion of our rights? What is it going to take to bring these people in a modern society where they coexist with others on equal terms, or at least on terms which don't make people look over their shoulder every time they pass or have fear of cars parked where the should not be?

Re:And this is on /. why?

[Columcille]

But it's still an odd choice. While granted terror attacks in Norway are probably pretty rare, terror attacks in general are not all that uncommon. Why pick this one to report?

Update

[o_source]

It is reported that this was a coordinated attack, there is reports of a person shooting in a political camp for youth in Utøya.

Re:This Is Not News For Nerds

[quantaman]

This is news for everyone.

Nerds are just a subset.

I work there

[Anonymous Coward]

I work stright across the street just from the prime ministers office and was on my way there when the bomb went off and came there not many minutes later. Because of vacation, I think most of the buildings were empty. Almost every shop in down town Oslo has or is shutting down. The public transportation is working more or less as normal, but there are a lot of people down there filming with their phones and calling relatives.

A lot of windows are broken and I saw one probably 400+ meters away blown out. People are very calm and just interested in more information.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14254705

Re:I work there

[blair1q]

I saw one probably 400+ meters away blown out

The shock wave reflects from solid surfaces and the reflection sums with the main wave and other reflections, so you can have one window getting much more shock that an adjacent window gets, and damage at considerable distance from the center of the blast.

Re:I work there

[Synerg1y]

Reflecting shock waves don't add to the distance.

Re:I work there

[bluemonq]

It can if the straight-line path is blocked by a more massive object/building that took the brunt of the force.

Not yet a "terror" attack

[greggman]

At the time of this positing no one has claimed responsibility for the attack. It could just as easily be another Timothy McVeigh.

It's irresponsible to label the bombing with "terror" or "attack" until the purpose is known

Re:Not yet a "terror" attack

[h4rr4r]

Timothy McVeigh was not a terrorist?

Re:Not yet a "terror" attack

[Anonymous Coward]

I would label any non-accidental non-war bomb explosion an act of terrorism. If it's your neighbour fed up with his mail being late, or an organized terrorist cell, it's still terrorism.

Re:Not yet a "terror" attack

[Anonymous Coward]

No, he was a scapegoat.

Re:Not yet a "terror" attack

[nedlohs]

Clearly a bomb is an "attack", it wasn't someone mining the side of a mountain... So attack seems perfectly reasonable.

Given the size it's very unlikely to have been a simple murder. So terror seems perfectly reasonable too.

And did you seriously just imply that Timothy McVeighs actions were not a '"terror" attack'?

Re:Not yet a "terror" attack

[DesScorp]

At the time of this positing no one has claimed responsibility for the attack. It could just as easily be another Timothy McVeigh.

It's irresponsible to label the bombing with "terror" or "attack" until the purpose is known

Uh, if it's a car bomb... and that's been confirmed... then yeah, it's a terrorist attack of some kind.

Re:Not yet a "terror" attack

[h4rr4r]

So who really did it?
I can't wait to hear this.

Re:Not yet a "terror" attack

[wintercolby]

I would label any non-accidental non-war bomb explosion an act of terrorism. If it's your neighbour fed up with his mail being late, or an organized terrorist cell, it's still terrorism.

By that logic all of the US drone strikes around the world are acts of terrorism. Perhaps our "War on Terror" gives us blanket immunity from being terrorists ourselves even though we haven't declared war on Pakistan or Yemen? Yeah, I didn't think so either. Terrorists always believe that they too are fighting a war for freedom. If there is not cause and no movement, then it isn't terrorism.

Re:Not yet a "terror" attack

[Anonymous Coward]

Directed energy weapon from space.

You can see it from the blast pattern. All the derby fell down. That means the blast could have only come from above.

Re:Not yet a "terror" attack

[Hartree]

"So who really did it? I can't wait to hear this."

Well, you see the FBI agents working at the Murrah Building had all sampled some of the Three Mile Island class chili that one of them had brought in that morning.
Then someone tried to sneak a smoke, and, well, you know what happens with lots of "natural gas" and a Zippo...

Re:Not yet a "terror" attack

[ravenshrike]

Timothy McVeigh's attack, as horrific as it was, was a direct response for the events at Ruby Ridge and Waco where the government was directly responsible for the deaths of numerous innocents and then tried to cover it up. Since I am unaware of the Norwegian government treeing a bunch of right-wing Norwegian whackjobs in their compound and than dropping incendiary grenades directly on top of their fuel stockpile, resulting in the murder of numerous women and children, whoever did this was manifestly not another Timothy McVeigh.

Re:Not yet a "terror" attack

[riverat1]

Timothy McVeigh's attack, as horrific as it was, was a direct response for the events at Ruby Ridge and Waco where the government was directly responsible for the deaths of numerous innocents and then tried to cover it up.

You say that as if McVeigh was justified in what he did. What's the same between McVeigh and this guy is it appears he felt wronged by the government and chose an inappropriate way to show displeasure. (How's that for understating it?)

Re:Not yet a "terror" attack

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, someone killed a bunch of people. Why not just go full stupid and say it's another holocaust.

News in brief

[on]

1. The police confirms explosives were used
2. There's also been an attack on a political youth organization just outside Oslo (parent organization is part of the government)
3. 2 people killed, several injured (though nobody from the government - almost everyone in Norway is on vacation atm)

Let me be the first

[Anonymous Coward]

INSIDE JOB

Why does a Norwegian...

[Anonymous Coward]

...bring a car door out in the desert?

So he can roll down the window when it gets too hot.

Our thoughts and prayers go out to Norway

[Anonymous Coward]

This should never have happened in a saner world.

Re:Our thoughts and prayers go out to Norway

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure there were some prayers involved on the other side as well.

Re:Our thoughts and prayers go out to Norway

[gweihir]

Nothing too tragic to exploit for a little religious propaganda. Despicable.

Re:Our thoughts and prayers go out to Norway

[Anonymous Coward]

|| DERP ALERT || See? this is the act of some deranged local guys, nothing to do with Islam. But we know that fact will not stop you for being the waste of oxigen every racist is.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[GooberToo]

I was wondering the same thing. Yet more proof slashdot has fallen. This in no way belongs on slashdot.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[greap]

I thought this was stuff for nerds.

Breaking news: Steve Jobs bombs Oslo after finding out Apple slipped 31% YoY in the tablet market.

Flickr images

[techtech]

http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=oslo&ss=2&s=rec#page=0

Re:And this is on /. why?

[Ihmhi]

Although I feel you're generally right on this, I think it is very important. There's been more than a few rather important news stories on here that just don't show up on the American telly. A British friend of mine had wagered that there wouldn't be anything about the recent News of the World scandal in America on television, and I agreed that he was probably right. Imagine my surprise when ABC leads with that story at their 6 o'clock news.

I often have to resort to the BBC for seeing what's going on in the world because American news tends to be largely self-centered. Even though it may not technically be "News for Nerds", I think it's rather important. I'd much prefer hearing about something like this rather than a slashvertisement for Apple or Bitcoin.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's GWOT 2.0, bitch. *EVERYONE* has to histerically report it!!!!!11

Re:Not clear, yet, that it's terrorism.

[Anonymous Coward]

You clearly don't understand the definition of terrorism. It is terrorism if the government wants to propose legislation that restricts the freedom of the people. Anything can be defined as an act of terror.

Re:Not clear, yet, that it's terrorism.

[sandytaru]

Suspected car bomb. There are photos of a destroyed car consistant with car bomb explosions, outside the building.

Very early speculation

[Anonymous Coward]

The attack was on a government office, so it's still too early to say whether it was an act of terrorism or war.

Al Qaeda and the organizations allied to it in "the Resistance" are the most obvious suspects, being that they are at war with everyone else in the world and they have the talent and desire to do it.

The attack could be in response to the recent filing of charges against Mullah Krekar, leader of Ansar al-Islam which was one of the first groups to rename itself to "al-Qaeda in Iraq" after the US invaded.

The motivation could also be the Jyllands-Posten cartoons that were published in a Denmark newspaper. The Muslim Brotherhood and Hizbut Tahrir encouraged attacks on Norwegian embassies after the Norwegian tabloid Dagbladet republished the cartoons.

Norway has been active in the bombing of Libya. The attack may have come in retaliation from the Libyan government, which has pledged to strike back at its attackers any way it could, or it may have come from unaffiliated right-wing Muslims who see the attack on Libya as kaffir invading the ummah.

It could be someone else. Remember that the Oklahoma City bombing was a couple of white ultra-Christians. Everyone thought it was Hezbollah at first. The attack could have come from Jews who are pissed off about European spy agencies funding the the NIF, B'tselem, Peace Now, Human Rights Watch, and all the lies they tell about Israel. It could have been a nut from an opposing political party or a farmer with a grievance about a change in subsidies and the knowledge to make a fertilizer bomb. The only thing we truly know is that we don't know yet, so wait a day or two for the investigators to do their jobs.

Here's Reuters's speculation.

Captcha: compute. If anyone was complaining that this was not news for nerds, it is now.

Re:Very early speculation

[Anonymous Coward]

Terrorism does not = muslims.

For years Britain was getting terrorist attacks from catholics. In the 19th century there were Jewish terrorist attacks. It is a terrorist attack even if islamic extremists were not involved.

How can anyone say this might not be a terroist attack? A bomb goes off in a public place with the intention of causing terror. Regardless of whether it is a state, a religion, or a nut job.

That IS a terrorist attack.

Re:Very early speculation

[Anonymous Coward]

Are there any highly controversial anti-"terrorism" laws currently being discussed in Norway that had little chance to get passed? A little bit of terror always helps to hurry those along. In Germany we regularly get the whole "we just caught a terror cell and foiled another attempt" theatre from our trusty national police.

Re:Very early speculation

[Anonymous Coward]

Or perhaps it was fundamental environmentalists that tried to take down the department for oil and energy.

Re:Very early speculation

[Anonymous Coward]

Regarding the Oklahoma City Bombings - Terry Nichols and Timothy McVeigh were not "ultra christians", whatever that means. McVeigh was purely an anti government minded ne'er do well, and as for Nichols, one point of defense in his second trial was that he had converted to Christianity (obviously not necessary if he were an ultra-christian before).

That said, agreed, we need to wait for the facts. It could be anyone.

Re:Very early speculation

[Anonymous Coward]

Norway has been active in the bombing of Libya. The attack may have come in retaliation from the Libyan government, which has pledged to strike back at its attackers any way it could, or it may have come from unaffiliated right-wing Muslims who see the attack on Libya as kaffir invading the ummah.

I seem to remember that Norway already said they will retreat from the mission.As for the pledge to strike back on Europe it seems to be that this was an incomplete translation:

he also says if you continue targeting our houses we can do the same coz Europe is not far away but he said lets not do this ...

Re:Very early speculation

[Anonymous Coward]

Terrorism does not = muslims.

Strictly speaking, no, but that's where I'd put my money.

Re:Very early speculation

[Anonymous Coward]

Or perhaps it was fundamental environmentalists that tried to take down the department for oil and energy.

That's silly. If they'd just wait 15 years, they wouldn't need a car bomb, see the graph: Norway and the Parabolic Fractal law.
I'd bet the Norwegian oil ministry already knows for quite a while what's going to happen to the North Sea fields. So they probably look at diversifying their energy production *right now*, being Norwegians and all. Why would fundie environmentalist hippies want to blow it up then?

Re:Very early speculation

[Anonymous Coward]

The attack could have come from Jews who are pissed off about European spy agencies funding the the NIF, B'tselem, Peace Now, Human Rights Watch, and all the lies they tell about Israel.

You have mentioned some of the most important and legitimate Human Rights organizations in the world in your Flame. This should be enough to get you -10 Troll.

Again and again, I am also wondering what is wrong with people. If you need to resort to outrageous lies to push forward your agenda, and if you get moderated up for this, then you either have a cabal of supporters backing you up, or society is going down the drain VERY quickly.

Re:Very early speculation

[Carewolf]

If the attacks is by Al Queda or Libya, it is only because they confused Denmark and Norway, or Denmark was too hard to attack. Both Libya and Al Queda is way more pissed off at Denmark. Muslims for the publication of the cartoons, and Libya for killing the entire family of Gadaffi and burning his face off (he has shown himself since Denmark bombed him and his family).

Re:Very early speculation

[IrquiM]

Not anymore; this is the guy arrested: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002651290254

Re:Very early speculation

[noodler]

This teaches us more about indoctrination than anything else, i'm afraid.

Re:Very early speculation

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, once again you would have lost your money. Perhaps you would care to review some statistics before making further statements?

Re:And this is on /. why?

[Kjella]

Large (some estimate 100kg of explosives) bombs against the headquarters of western governments far removed from any local conflict are rather rare. This is the equivalent of someone blowing up the White House or Downing Street in the UK. It might not reach quite up to the UK subway bombing or the Madrid train bombing but this was way more than one man with a suicide vest.

Troll Attack

[S77IM]

The terrorist story is a cover-up.

What really happened, is a young Jutnar (a species of large mountain troll) wandered into Oslo through the sewer system. It was eventually destroyed near the capital building when courageous members of the TSS removed a manhole cover above the troll. Sadly, the dying troll exploded in a massive burst destroying several city blocks.

Re:Troll Attack

[Anonymous Coward]

The terrorist story is a cover-up.

What really happened, is a young Jutnar (a species of large mountain troll) wandered into Oslo through the sewer system. It was eventually destroyed near the capital building when courageous members of the TSS removed a manhole cover above the troll. Sadly, the dying troll exploded in a massive burst destroying several city blocks.

Lol

- Norwegian dude

Re:Troll Attack

[mdarksbane]

Wonder what the PUFF bounty on that was...

Re:Troll Attack

[Anonymous Coward]

People have died and you're making jokes about it?

Re:Troll Attack

[Anonymous Coward]

Jötnar are not trolls, they are generally just a bit larger than humans and come from Icelandic Ásatrú mythology not Norse folklore like trolls, trolls are huge, unless the story is imported from Germany where they are required to hide under bridges like German ogres and so the Trolls are shrunk to fit the story.

Re:Troll Attack

[Evtim]

You might be closer to the truth than you think. The shooting in the labor party youth camp and the time of the blasts (when few are around) - this seems to me like an internal political affair.

Re:Troll Attack

[tibit]

Yes. And I believe it's OK to do so. He's not tracking down the families of the dead and joking straight into their faces, you know. Jokes on /. are fine.

Re:Troll Attack

[Anonymous Coward]

Sick, not funny.

Re:Troll Attack

[halivar]

Unless you're booking a flight to Norway to help the victims, you can take your fake righteous indignation and shove it.

Re:Troll Attack

[Anonymous Coward]

The solution is more powerlines!

Re:Troll Attack

[Anonymous Coward]

some php n00b was running a recursive algorithm to fetch his menu system.

Re:Troll Attack

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, ain't laughing. Were you doing the same jokes on 9/11-01, or was that closer to home?

Re:Troll Attack

[arbarbonif]

I vote both.

Re:Troll Attack

[Anonymous Coward]

This just is not funny today.

Re:Troll Attack

[Anonymous Coward]

No other post in the history of /. ever needed a "-1 Troll" mod more than this post does.

Re:Troll Attack

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is this marked funny? people are dead...

Re:Troll Attack

[MrHanky]

Wrong.

Re:Troll Attack

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think that's what happened. A reliable source within the whale community informs me that a splinter group known as the Minkes have been pretty upset with what they perceive to be ongoing hostile actions by the Norwegian government against them. It is reasonable to assume that a counterattack was mounted, though I have heard no reports of any of the Minke claiming responsibility.

Re:Troll Attack

[Anonymous Coward]

While all the world spend its time and attention on Oslow attacks US prepare an assault over North Korea. US economy needs to be saved and without war it's almost impossible. An intervention is necessary to "democratize" North Korea's "evil" government system.

Re:Troll Attack

[IrquiM]

Sorry, as a Norwegian, I can say: Not funny!

And slashdot moderators are currently qualifying for a "troll" moderation.

Re:Troll Attack

[Anonymous Coward]

Troll story is funny to you? You are a sick individual and need help for your mental illness.

Re:Troll Attack

[geirlk]

I laughed. I'm a Norwegian. And I believe it's OK to do so.
That being said, what actually took place was a horrific act of right wing terrorism. But it's humor that'll get us through it in the end. The day we stop laughing terror wins.

Re:Troll Attack

[Anonymous Coward]

That's just tasteless, dude... I have several friends that were at Utøya that are still missed, and a friend of mine worked in a building just below the blastsite...

Re:Troll Attack

[wgibson]

As a Norwegian, heavily shaken by the events, I heartily thank you for giving me a good laugh :)

Re:Not clear, yet, that it's terrorism.

[Jeng]

The car was damaged by the explosion, but if you look at the building stuff was blown out, not in. That car was not the bomb.

This was a very big bomb, if the bomb had been in a car there would be little left of the car.

No one knows jack right now

[DesScorp]

...why I pointed out that if these events were related then this makes it a lot more likely that this is a domestic terrorism incident and not islamic terrorists.

It looks like the "oil and gas" ministry was bombed. The Prime Minister was apparently targeted too. This could be anyone from Al Qaeda to some Earth First type of group. All the speculation is useless until someone actually comes up with some evidence and some suspects, or until there's a credible claim of credit for the attacks.

Re:No one knows jack right now

[Toonol]

It looks like the "oil and gas" ministry was bombed.

They probably thought that would blow up the biggest.

Re:Not clear, yet, that it's terrorism.

[Jayson]

How do you cook then? Electric stoves kinda suck.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[Anonymous Coward]

but this was way more than one man with a suicide vest.

So it was the CIA then?

Re:And this is on /. why?

[eln]

This story is virtually guaranteed to generate a lot of page hits (and ad impressions), so it's important for Slashdot to cover it.

Re:Not clear, yet, that it's terrorism.

[toriver]

Typically either oil-fueled furnaces (in the process of being phased out many places here) or steam-based heating based on garbage incinerators.

Terror Attack or something more mundane?

[Scarred Intellect]

Terror Attack On Norwegian Government

No-one has said they were behind the attack

Obviously, I didn't RTFA, but I just love scare tactics. This could be anything. Just because it was a bomb "near" a government building doesn't mean it was "Terror," although "terror" these days DOES have an extremely broad definition...

Re:Terror Attack or something more mundane?

[Anonymous Coward]

Terror Attack On Norwegian Government

No-one has said they were behind the attack

Obviously, I didn't RTFA, but I just love scare tactics. This could be anything. Just because it was a bomb "near" a government building doesn't mean it was "Terror," although "terror" these days DOES have an extremely broad definition...

"Near" as in four meters away. The rest of the buildings in the area are also government buildings. *The* government buildings of Norway, in fact.

This was not "mundane".

Norwegian Spring?

[gestalt_n_pepper]

No doubt they're protesting their brutal living conditions and depressed economy.

No, wait....

Re:Norwegian Spring?

[dkleinsc]

That's clearly an impossible thesis - it's way too friggin' cold in Norway to have a concept of "Spring"

Re:Norwegian Spring?

[gl4ss]

norway isn't cold, it might not be very warm ever there but for the same reason it's never really, really cold. but the running joke about norwegians is about the black metal guys burning wooden heritage churches. because they got nothing better to do.

Re:Norwegian Spring?

[Jeek Elemental]

Much of the west coast is luke-warm year round cause of the gulf stream, inland it gets pretty frosty tho.
The church burning thing was popular a while but is old hat now (also running low on suitable churches, new ones are pure asbestos).

Re:Norwegian Spring?

[shutdown -p now]

the running joke about norwegians is about the black metal guys burning wooden heritage churches. because they got nothing better to do.

Speaking of churches, I always wanted the excuse to have a link to this video in my /. comment.

Re:Norwegian Spring?

[Anonymous Coward]

The guy they arrested is a conservative christian fundie. He's probably trying to save Norway from immigration, gay weddings and free healthcare.

Re:Norwegian Spring?

[geirlk]

Speaking of Black Metal videos, I've always wanted to link to this guy on /. =)
http://www.youtube.com/user/VeganBlackMetalChef

ideological war

[pablo_max]

Perhaps I am alone in this thinking, but it seems to me that the west is engaged in an ideological war with Islam. Which, to my mind is only reasonable given the clear incompatibility between Muslim and Western values.
The trouble is, the opposition's idea of an ideological war is distinctly physical. Though, I do not imagine too many ideological wars have been one without the winner resorting to violence.

Re:ideological war

[blair1q]

the west is engaged in an ideological war with Islam

That is the view of Islam. The West, however, is in a war with islamic militants, who have that same view.

Re:ideological war

[MozeeToby]

Perhaps I am alone in this thinking, but it seems to me that the west is engaged in an ideological war with Islam. Which, to my mind is only reasonable given the clear incompatibility between fundamentalist Muslim and Western values.

Fixed.

There are millions of Muslims living happy, fulfilling, lives in the US, surrounded by friends and family of many religions. Grouping all Muslims as terrorists is like grouping all Catholics as KKK members.

Re:ideological war

[Oligonicella]

It would help if many of those would quit ululating any time a bomb destroys US property or people.

Re:ideological war

[Oligonicella]

My comment was expressed at the overseas demonstrations. Sorry, i should have immediately agreed with the US aspect.

Re:ideological war

[Anonymous Coward]

Point of clarification, KKK members were pretty much all protestants. Catholics in fact were the second largest victims of KKK animosity, second of course to black. By and large the KKK hated the Catholics.

Re:ideological war

[Anonymous Coward]

The next time you ask yourself "why do the muslims hate us so much?", consider that it may be because you immediately think "oh noes it's the Arabs" when you hear about an attack, while islamists are in reality responsible for 1% of terrorist attacks in Europe.

Re:ideological war

[h4rr4r]

The KKK will not accept catholics. Southern Baptists are the Christian sect you were looking for.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[neoform]

"News for nerds", does a terrorist in a European capital count as being of interest to nerds? I think it does.

so a million people dying in east africa

[decora]

of starvation is not on?

Re:so a million people dying in east africa

[Maimun]

of starvation is not on?

No. This not a body count. This is about a civilisation war we are currently in.

Re:so a million people dying in east africa

[uvajed_ekil]

Submit that story, and get over yourself, please. Why does coverage of any event have to be taken as a slight to the seriousness of some other negative event? I read most every story /. covers, and this one belonged here. I don't think the original poster claimed the Oslo bombing was the worst, most serious event in the history of the world, nor should it need to be to get attention. Nothing is stopping you from contributing something else.

Re:so a million people dying in east africa

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not news to me. That's been going on for a while!

Re:so a million people dying in east africa

[Anonymous Coward]

No, because that's too common. Happens every day.

Those of us who care, know they are dying.
Those of us who don't care, don't care.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps some nerds got injured? While the plebs are rather uninteresting, the Scandinavian countries have a rather high concentration of nerds so this would likely affect us.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[Flyerman]

You're actually thinking of Australia.

Re:Not clear, yet, that it's terrorism.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, most people have electric stoves. For the very of us who have gas stoves, it's usually bottled gas on the side of the home. There is virtually no gas service anywhere.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[Duradin]

/. is home to a large and/or very vocal tinfoil hat ebil gubmint gonna enslave us all crowd and they need their daily "this has gotta be a false flag" fix or they really go crazy.

Archie Bunker, eh?

[LanMan04]

At least you have an appropriate nick...

I think people make too much of this kind of thing

[Thud457]

Except for some minor inconvenience the rare occasions I can afford to fly somewhere, destroying our economy, and having to tolerate listening to whiny bed-wetters on Fox, terrorism has had little impact on my life.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[couchslug]

"Are we reporting news in general?"

Yes, because "no one here keeps up with news on other websites" and /. needs page hits.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[shish]

Unless your mother's basement happens to be in Oslo, I think not.

There's a difference between "News for nerds" and "News for people in general, of which nerds may be included though it isn't really aimed at them"

Re:And this is on /. why?

[Tsingi]

but this was way more than one man with a suicide vest.

So it was the CIA then?

ROFL! A likely theory!

Re:And this is on /. why?

[Tsingi]

Perhaps some nerds got injured? While the plebs are rather uninteresting, the Scandinavian countries have a rather high concentration of nerds so this would likely affect us.

And hot chicks. I've been to Oslo, it's absolutely stupefying how may hot chicks there are there. Any news about Oslo is interesting.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[blair1q]

There's not much that's nerdier than Norwegians.

Premature

[Anonymous Coward]

Lets try to be accurate here, its not like we want slashdot to become like every other useless media news outlet on the planet.

It is premature to call this a terror attack. No one knows what this is yet.

Stop trying to grab attention by posting unsubstantiated sensationalist headlines.

Foreign terrorism?

[Miktor]

I think not. According to NRK, the man shooting at Utøya, was a tall Norwegian looking blonde. http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=no&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nrk.no%2Fnyheter%2Fnorge%2F1.7723132

Terrible idea, would be used against you

[SuperKendall]

But also issue a warning saying any support of an extraterritorial terrorist attack originating from within these areas, whether it be financial, moral, or man-power will guarantee the immediate destruction of a randomly selected city or geographical location without the slightest regard for damage or casualties

This killing of random civilians ON PURPOSE is far more evil to my mind than the situation we have now, where we are primarily fighting real enemy fighters, and trying to help the population of various areas com into a modern era.

I can tell you what would happen right now if your proposal were implemented - there would be a terrorist attack every week, announcing the country of origin. Then the city would be bombed, and the cameras would move in to document the suffering of all the women and children who had been placed in the city the week before by the Taliban just so they could die for the camera. It is not a good idea to do anything which so easily gives them a media tool they can (rightfully) hit you over the head with.

Re:Terrible idea, would be used against you

[tibit]

So, eventually they would just all die out, right? Well, I think that's problem solved in a generation or two. No women => no reproduction.

Re:Terrible idea, would be used against you

[cavreader]

It's the terrorist who are killing random civilians on purpose and somehow I have a feeling that doesn't seem to raise your rightous indignation level very. And they kill more of their own citizens than any outsiders. What do you think about that little fact ?

Re:Terrible idea, would be used against you

[shutdown -p now]

You make the mistake of grouping together terrorists, and the rest of the population of those countries, as "they".

Re:Terrible idea, would be used against you

[tibit]

So, the backlash from the rest of the population would take care of the terrorists. That solves the problem, too.

Re:Terrible idea, would be used against you

[shutdown -p now]

That is precisely the logic that terrorists themselves are using to target general population, so that they would "take care" of their leadership.

What really happens is that the innocent people being targeted now listen much more closely to any propaganda that tells them how those foreign guys are all very bad (now that they have bombs falling down on their heads, dead children etc, they know first hand!). And you end up with fewer civilians, and more terrorists. If you're willing to go down all the way down that path, you might as well just advocate complete pre-emptive genocide of those countries, because that is where it leads in the end.

Re:Terrible idea, would be used against you

[drinkypoo]

You make the mistake of grouping together terrorists, and the rest of the population of those countries, as "they".

Terrorists both do and don't put themselves in a special group when they become terrorists. It's a mistake to group them in all comparisons, and it's a mistake to never group them. Terrorists come from somewhere, and they are made, not discovered.

Re:Not clear, yet, that it's terrorism.

[Dunbal]

Agreed. No vehicle wreckage and the blast appears to have happened on one of the upper floors of the building meaning your bomber would have had to have been able to walk with his hundreds of kilos of ammonium nitrate all over the building. I doubt it. And the building turns out to be the Ministry of Oil and Gas. Perhaps they were storing something there that they shouldn't have been?

It's not "terror"

[gavron]

Who got scared? Who was terrorized?

Not every explosion is "terror". Terrorism (except as defined by the US Govt.) requires causing terror.

This was an explosion. I'm glad it wasn't worse... ...but it wasn't terror.

It's time to quit calling everything "terror".

E

Re:It's not "terror"

[blair1q]

A car bomb in the street out front of an office is a terribly inefficient way to murder someone, if at least one of your goals isn't to terrorize anyone else.

A car bomb is also a classic terrorist tool.

By the principle of parsimony, it's reasonable to assume that this was a terrorist act unless extraordinary evidence to the contrary is presented.

It's time to quit calling everything "terror".

It's time to quit calling everything that isn't terrifying "terror." Car bombs parked out front of government offices will probably never be not terrifying. So your complaint is poorly aimed.

Re:It's not "terror"

[techtech]

I fear this, it started now, therefore I am terrorized.

Re:It's not "terror"

[Anonymous Coward]

English, motherfucker, do you speak it?

It's common usage.

Re:It's not "terror"

[gl4ss]

if terrorizing is the reason for the act then it's terrorism. MOST terrorism in usa and europe is home brewed, it's only lately that it has been attached to random acts of violence for generic religional cause. and fuck, europe is a bastion of peace nowadays if you compare to the "let's shoot a rpg at a passanger jet" commie/separatist/whatever shit that went on in decades past(though they at least had some political motives).

Re:It's not "terror"

[Anonymous Coward]

Congratulations. You are now a terrorist, since by your decision to be afraid you have made this act terrorism.

Re:It's not "terror"

[Anonymous Coward]

I got scared.
And I don't even live in Norway. If this sort of stuff can happen in Norway, it can happen here also.

I usually don't post as AC, but please allow this one exception.

Re:It's not "terror"

[jsvendsen]

Who got scared? Who was terrorized?

Fuck you.

Love, Norway

Re:It's not "terror"

[gavron]

Dear Norway,

Sorry you peed your pants.

I'm sorry you have your crazies. We have them too. It's bad that 90+ people died. I hope that guy is executed for what he did.
Oh. What's that? You don't have a death penalty? No, seriously?

Wait, you mean some whacko can kill 90+ people and you're going to just whack him on the ass with a ruler?

Well I guess IF IT WAS TERRORISM you guys SUCK at preventing its happening again.

best regards

love, the real world
P.S. Try to turn the other cheek and not reply to this. It's the same kind of idea of not executing mass-murderers.

Re:It's not "terror"

[Anonymous Coward]

The funny part is, if it happened here, I'd guess that he wouldn't manage to kill 90+ people before some law-abiding gun-toting bass-ackward redneck offed him.

Hey, the Ft. Hood shooter only managed to rack up 13 kills before someone put the drop on him (well, he survived the multiple gunshot wounds, but point still remains he was taken down... pity we weren't saved the expense of a completely unnecessary trial). And he was TRAINED to kill.

Re:It's not "terror"

[jsvendsen]

I'll keep my cheek to myself, thanks. Giving up and giving in is not the same as having to retaliate every aggression, answer any attack with a counterattack. Damn right we don't practice death penalty. What would one more dead body possibly buy us? Prevention, are you kidding? I'm just going to go out on a limb and say that this guy went out to do what he did with a pretty strong expectation of ending up dead, death penalty or no.

Nah, we'll punish this guy in the worst way he could possibly imagine. We'll take some time to grieve our dead, and then we're going to get up, brush off, and go back to doing what we fucking do.

Anyway, since you apparently didn't catch it the first time, the "fuck you" wasn't about how much we peed our pants, how hard we're hit. It was about you coming in here with your piece-of-shit know-it-all agenda, spouting off about what is and isn't terrorism, about who were and were not scared, without having all, or even any, of the facts. At the exact moment you were taking time out of your day to do that, other people were taking time out of their day to die in the street, or psyche themselves up towards gunning down 150 kids. So there's that.

Re:It's not "terror"

[jsvendsen]

Well.. I guess, or maybe i just hope, that even you guys don't have firearms floating around your youth camps.

Re:It's not "terror"

[gavron]

I'm not sure about the know-it-all agenda.

As I said, I am sorry for the event and your loss. Please don't confuse my saying "this isn't terrorism" with a lack of empathy to the loss.

Recidivism is reduced by death penalties. No executed criminal has ever committed another crime. I'll leave it to you to work out how that's 100% effective. It's not prophylactic but it is effective in removing repeat offenders.

Thanks for the "fuck you". If that helps you feel better at this tragedy, I am big enough to take it. However, may I respectfully suggest that
- it's still not terrorism. It's a random act of crazy killings.
- If you would kill people who do this, they won't do it again.
- Thanks for bringing up "150 kids" because if we can't boil it down to an argument about Nazi Germany or "the Children will Suffer" than truly we'll never be able to reach a conclusion. (Godwin's law.)

Have a nice day,

E

Re:It's not "terror"

[jsvendsen]

- it's still not terrorism. It's a random act of crazy killings.

Extremely, emphatically, wrong. Documents published by the suspect show that this attack, which he has been working towards for 9 years, was planned in excruciating detail, was specifically targeted against the Norwegian political establishments, was implemented with specific goals for changes in policy and society in mind, and was designed to accomplish these goals specifically by instilling fear in the minds of the general public. He considers himself a soldier, and explicitly considers terror his weapon of choice.

- If you would kill people who do this, they won't do it again.

There must surely be other, almost equally effective, ways to prevent a known perpetrator of a crime like this from "doing it again". His days of blending in are over. Additionally, martyrdom is a powerful force, (And also stated explicitly as an element in the suspects plan as an effective way to advance his cause) and while this guy can't do it again, those people that adopt him as their hero certainly can.

- Thanks for bringing up "150 kids" because if we can't boil it down to an argument about Nazi Germany or "the Children will Suffer" than truly we'll never be able to reach a conclusion. (Godwin's law.)

You're letting your rhetorical agenda run away with you again. I'm not here to argue for tighter security or surveillance "for the children", I personally specifically oppose those things. I'm just stating a fact: the youngest attendants at the Labour Youth camp were 14, the average age of the final list of victims is likely to be well under 20. I find "kids" to be a pretty accurate description of that group, and I assume that whether 150 of them were shot is not in debate. Again, I'm not debating, I was giving you a friendly (OK, not so friendly) suggestion to think before you post, because words can hurt and I'm sure that's not what you intended.

Re:It's not "terror"

[gavron]

You're right... hurt is not what I intended. I think we have different ideas on what a terrorist is... or how to either prevent them from committing terrorist acts, and further preventing them from doing so once we've caught that.

I probably chose my words poorly, since I did not communicate my meaning well. I apologize.

I'll try not to let my "rhetorical agenda run away" with me again ;)

Pax

E

Re:It's not "terror"

[Granis]

- If you would kill people who do this, they won't do it again.

The shooter in Norway was reported to have peacefully given up when the police team arrived, despite of having plenty of ammunition left for booth his guns. Do you think that would have been a just as likely scenario if Norway practiced death penalty?

Re:It's not "terror"

[Anonymous Coward]

"Floating around"? Certainly not, I'd hope it would be safely stored somewhere where its owner could access it if necessary, but where none of the youth could find it and play with it unsupervised. But obvious things like that shouldn't really need to be explained to anyone.

And re: your below comment, "we'll punish this guy in the worst way he could possibly imagine"... I very much doubt it. If he was going to be punished in the "worst way he could possibly imagine", I don't imagine he'd have surrendered peacefully.

wow...

[AliasMrAlias]

People are dead and all most of you can do is whinge because the headline might be slightly inaccurate, but in all likelihood isn't?

Re:Are the sure it wasn't a can of Surströmmi

[blair1q]

Story would have led with something about the smell if it were, you'd think.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[socz]

1up! I know I fall at least into 2 of those categories!

Re:And this is on /. why?

[Kjella]

At least 7 confirmed killed, 2 seriously injured in the explosion. Also there's been a shooter that the police think is connected, unclear how many are injured/killed but reports suggest 5+ people have been shot there as well.

Take him to the airport

[Quila]

Buy him a ticket to anywhere he wants, put him on the plane, and be done with him. If he refuses, lock him up until he does choose -- permanently if necessary.

These terrorists are using our regard for human rights in order to destroy us. It cannot be allowed, or they will succeed.

Re:Take him to the airport

[halivar]

And yet, paradoxically, it is your regard for human rights they (fringe European Islamists) wish to destroy. In choosing your course of action, they will have won, as they have already won in America.

Re:Take him to the airport

[ravenshrike]

Bullshit, what they want to do is conquer the world. We could be the utmost tyrannical government ever and they would still attempt to force us into subjugation because we are not them and their entire belief system requires them to impose said subjugation through any possible means. I'd say it was like Christianity, except even at it's height Christianity was never as rabidly and violently expansionist as Islam. The closest religious violence I can think of would have been the Aztecs.

Re:Take him to the airport

[cusco]

I take it you never heard of of the Spanish Conquest. Seventy to ninety percent of everyone in South America died over the course of a century.

Re:Take him to the airport

[Hognoxious]

And yet, paradoxically, it is your regard for human rights they (fringe European Islamists) wish to destroy. In choosing your course of action, they will have won

Only if you think it's a human right to do whatever you like without facing up to the consequences.

Re:Take him to the airport

[Hognoxious]

And this is going on right now, is it?

So why is the comparison relevant? Is != was.

Re:This Is Not News For Nerds

[blair1q]

Venn diagram. Nice. That's made it nerdy enough to remain posted, then.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[MrHanky]

Hardly. The Norwegian Prime Minister just sent a tweet from his iPad (which, incidentally, qualifies as Slashdot-relevant "news for nerds" these days).

Just make their job easier.

[arthurpaliden]

Everyone should just start phoning the police, FBI, DHS et al and letting them know where you and who you are with every time you change locations. In addition you should forward them copies of all the emails that you send and receive.

Re:Just make their job easier.

[arthurpaliden]

Sorry. Old people moment. Posted to wrong story....

Re:And this is on /. why?

[socz]

While I was abroad, I found it very interesting that back in the U.S., I didn't hear about U.S. Solders being killed in "The Wars." But abroad I heard about it all the time on the news. Although I knew that the media in the U.S. is fairly "censored" (not comparable to other countries such as N. Korea or China), it was amazing how much they were really keeping from us (regarding the war).

More recently, the story about the ATF sending weapons to Latin America - though it is still a "developing story," trying to find images of the heavy weapons confiscated has seemed difficult to obtain! But on the Spanish speaking news mediums, they have plenty of footage of just this! Why don't we get to see the same thing? We get shown the "new rifles sold in mass quantities by legit stores" but not the heavy anti armor and vehicle mounted weapons that you just can not buy from stores.

So while this at a glance might not seem as a story for nerds, it is appreciated by nerds... soon enough we'll learn about the specific bomb type and mechanism that was used and we'll discuss many things about that. But don't disregard it just because on the front page news it's "only a human tragedy/act of terrorism."

America's chickens come home to roost again?

[Kohath]

I hear that all terrorist attacks are Americas fault, and that we deserve it because of our foreign policy.

So is this attack in Oslo America's fault? Or is this Norway's fault because of the Norwegian Government's belligerent foreign policy?

Is George Bush to blame? Please help. How can we understand world events without one of these explanations?

Re:America's chickens come home to roost again?

[Anonymous Coward]

Be calm, citizen. President Obama will be on shortly to tell you what to think.

ROP

[Anonymous Coward]

Religion of Peace spreading the Word to the faithful.

Re:ROP

[Pf0tzenpfritz]

Indeed, yes. Say, why do you and your "God" hate our freedom so much?

Re:ROP

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep, those damned 'peaceful' Christians... It's a real shame when the truth doesn't back up your prejudices, isn't it?

Re:ROP

[Anonymous Coward]

The official state religion in Norway is evangelical Lutheran. Around 80% of the population are members. The vast majority of them don't practice Christianity or even attend church, and around 20% of the population call themselves atheist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Norway#Religion_in_Norway_today

Kevin Boyle, a professor of history at the Ohio State University says, "Most members of the state church are not active adherents, except for the rituals of birth, confirmation, weddings, and burials. Some 3 per cent on average attend church on Sunday and 10 per cent on average attend church every month."

In 2005, a survey conducted by Gallup International in sixty-five countries indicated that Norway was the least religious country in Western Europe, with 29% counting themselves as believing in a church or deity, 26% as being atheists, and 45% not being entirely certain.

According to the most recent Eurobarometer Poll 2005, 32% of Norwegian citizens responded that "they believe there is a god", whereas 47% answered that "they believe there is some sort of spirit or life force" and 17% that "they do not believe there is any sort of spirit, god, or life force".

Just from those statistics it's obvious that a significant number of so-called Christians, by membership in the state religion, in fact profess to be atheist. So pardon me if I require more than just membership in the official state religion to prove that this guy was some sort of actual Christian.

So what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Where are the headline reports in Slashdot for the bombs in non-western countries? No where!! typical western bias and I live in the west! I've heard the US say they have smart targeted weapons, what about collateral damage, something being brought up in this story.

Non-western countries have real people with feelings and they should be represented here as well in stories like this.

I didn't say violate his rights

[Quila]

I said make sure he is not a danger in your own state.

If HE can't find a state HE is willing to go to, and that will accept him, then he must be detained so as not to be a danger to the local country until such time as HE finds a country HE is comfortable going to. See, no rights violated. It's his choice to stay.

He cannot be allowed to simply roam free, arrange crimes and plot the destruction of the free society he's in just because no other country that he wants to go to will take him.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Linus Torvalds is from the region (Finland), so I think it's close enough to be mentioned.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[elrous0]

Best.response.ever

Re:And this is on /. why?

[The Gaytriot]

Quit your whining, GooberToo, you're not fooling anyone posting as AC. Everyone seems to think they have been moderated unjustly when they actually just have shit posts, in fact your posts here were shit and the moderation system tends to correct any poor moderation within hours of a post.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[gl4ss]

but it's all over national news everywhere where nerds gather. also reports of some guy shooting at some youth camp on an island the PM was supposed to visit today. there's no nerd aspect to this, not at this stage anyways, maybe later when the investigation goes further about how relatively few people got killed(the blast looks like it was a biggie, 2 people killed). and they're fighting at the gates of tripoli and syria is still a mess and probably you could dig up a bomb blast in pakistan today - all that is what fills news for everyone every day.

Re:Not clear, yet, that it's terrorism.

[Hognoxious]

if you look at the building stuff was blown out, not in.

That doesn't necessarily follow. If you break a CRT screen glass flies outwards, even though the higher pressure is on the outside, so why couldn't the bomb overpressurise the building and then the "backwash" fling debris out?

Re:And this is on /. why?

[Man Eating Duck]

While granted terror attacks in Norway are probably pretty rare

Actually, nothing like this has happened in Norway since WWII, and AFAIK no known terror attacks whatsoever has been perpetrated on Norwegian soil in modern times. That might be the reason it's made the news worldwide, I'm still not sure why this is on Slashdot.

On a side note I work at the University of Oslo, I heard the blast clearly from my office (believed it was thunder at the time). An hour prior to the explosion I suggested to colleagues leaving early and having a beer at this pub, now I'm happy they declined... While I'm very conscious that this shall not influence my everyday life in any way in the future, it *is* a strong reminder that even our peaceful country is vulnerable.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[oursland]

As the definition of "nerd" is quite nebulous, your argument for limited scope postings based on your restrictive definition of "nerd" could be applied to every article posted on Slashdot.

- As a nerd of the biologist variety, stories about software product/provider X are of no interest to me and shouldn't be considered "News for Nerds."

- As a nerd of the computer variety, stories about breakthrough in medicine are of no interest to me and shouldn't be considered "News for Nerds."

- As a nerd of the factual scientist variety, stories about science fiction are of no interest to me and shouldn't be considered "News for Nerds."

- As a nerd of the political science variety, stories of terrorist attacks are of interest to me and should be considered "News for Nerds."

I could go on, but the point is clear. You're outrage (or whatever you want to call it) is misplaced due to a false assumption of the definition of "nerd."

Re:And this is on /. why?

[elsurexiste]

A laser hit a Holtzman field and it blasted the whole city. There is no proof though...

Re:And this is on /. why?

[elsurexiste]

Oh, snap. You beat me to it. :)

Re:And this is on /. why?

[BotnetZombie]

9/11 was also reported on Slashdot. Were you unhappy about that too?

Re:And this is on /. why?

[Anonymous Coward]

While I was abroad, I found it very interesting that back in the U.S., I didn't hear about U.S. Solders being killed in "The Wars." But abroad I heard about it all the time on the news.

Two Minute Hate

More recently, the story about the ATF sending weapons to Latin America - though it is still a "developing story," trying to find images of the heavy weapons confiscated has seemed difficult to obtain! But on the Spanish speaking news mediums, they have plenty of footage of just this! Why don't we get to see the same thing? We get shown the "new rifles sold in mass quantities by legit stores" but not the heavy anti armor and vehicle mounted weapons that you just can not buy from stores.

Any foreign media implying that heavy weapons were permitted to be smuggled into Mexico by the ATF are lying to you. The only weapons involved in the ATF case are of the sort you can buy at gun stores.

Re:Not clear, yet, that it's terrorism.

[Jayson]

Interesting. Thanks.

More Western Hypocrisy

[compucomp2]

When the Muslim terrorists strike in a Western country, the ranting and raving is about how the "religion of peace" (always used in the sarcastic sense) must be crushed mercilessly and its adherents sent to Guantanamo bay, and countries harboring them must be bombed into oblivion. When the Muslim terrorists (AFGHANISTAN TRAINED, AL-QAEDA AFFILIATED, MIND YOU) strike China, in Xinjiang, the ranting and raving is about the supoposed injustices of the Chinese government and how the terrorists deserve to have their goals fulfilled, never mind that the goal is to establish a Taliban-style Islamic emirate in central Asia. You claim to be on a war on terror, but it's only a war on terror that goes against Western interests. The Cold War is still on, and the enemy of your enemy is still your friend. Total Western hypocrisy here.

Re:Not clear, yet, that it's terrorism.

[MrHanky]

The first images from the scene show a car that's been absolutely obliterated. Video (the car about 1 minute in): http://www.nrk.no/video/store_materielle_skader/6073854C1A446E1A/

And re: the blast having happened on the upper floors? No.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[Anonymous Coward]

More recently, the story about the ATF sending weapons to Latin America "

Keywords for the story above are "Operation Castaway" and “Operation Fast and Furious”

No kidding...

Re:Not clear, yet, that it's terrorism.

[MightyMartian]

Gas lines don't open fire on youth camps.

Re:Are the sure it wasn't a can of Surströmmi

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, there's something fishy here.

There are millions of Muslims living happy, fulfil

[SmallFurryCreature]

Gosh, you sure say it yourself "There are millions of Muslims living happy, fulfilling, lives in the US, surrounded by friends and family of many religions."

My god, it is rare to get someone so insightful of the true evil that is Islam with just a single sentence but I doubt your feeble apologist mind can comprehend it.

So let me point out what is bloody obvious to anyone who does not choose to be blind:

You cannot say the same about any muslim country concerning anyother religion. Muslims can live free in the west because it is run by western people. Western or other non-muslims or even just the wrong type of muslim or even just female muslims are not so free in Muslim run countries.

The only thing you need to know about any society is this, immigration vs emigration. How many millions of Americans are emigrating to say Iran or even Turkey?

And the west is engaged in a war with Islam? Odd then that so many of the west enemies are able to live among them and more queing at the border every day. And is India the west as well? Russia? By your logic the entire world is the west.

Don't forget that the 9/11 attackers lived seemingly normal lives in the US as well. The black guy who attempted to use a liqued bomb, he studied in England. Living in a country seems hardly to stop people from hating it.

You apologists really need to start coming up with a better story then "Islam is peace", people get skeptical when the street is covered in blood. No doubt if this turns out to be home grown loonies every apologists like you will show it as proof of the peaceful nature of Islam forgetting the attacks in Denmark, Londong, Madrid, New York, Mumbai, Amsterdam and countless other places.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[uvajed_ekil]

This isn't just some little bomb that annoyed some reindeer in the Arctic Circle, it was a significant terror attack on a country's capital city and its prime minister. We probably don't need 10 stories a day on it, but If this DIDN'T make it onto /. I'd be a little worried about what we've become.

What the Amercian media focused on...

[Anonymous Coward]

While all this is unfolding in real-time in Norway, NBC Today is discussing Lindsay Lohan's latest court case complete with an in-studio 'expert' and live cross over to reporter At-The-Scene (tm) in Los Angeles. This was followed by a multi-panel on relationship commitment issues of the Human male.

I have stopped laughing at the narrow Amercian world view, now I just find them sad and pathetic...

Labour Party Youth Camp?

[cobrausn]

Uhhh... maybe I don't know the context, but this seems wrong. The shooting moreso, but the isolated island youth camp for a political party...

Anyone know anything about these?

Re:Labour Party Youth Camp?

[MightyMartian]

There seem to be a growing number of hints that this is some home-grown terrorism, and not Islamist in origin at all.

Re:Labour Party Youth Camp?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know this one in particular, but I know similar programs. They are often close to mainstream religious retreats as far as types of activities are concerned. It is about seeing how you feel about living in an 'everyone suffers if anyone shits in the pool' type environment.

Socialists are big into it - so much so that they prop up a-political leadership programs that get youngsters into small, semi-isolated groups even when there is no direct payoff. At least the fair minded ones do.

People who go through the programs successfully often don't go into politics directly, but remain active and in touch more than your average summer camp acquaintances.

Re:Labour Party Youth Camp?

[cobrausn]

I originally suspected as much; Islamic terrorists tend to be all about casualty count, whereas other kinds tend to focus on making political statements. The bombing of a government building reminded me more of Oklahoma City than, say, 9/11 or other Islamic extremist attacks.

My statement was more about the fact that a political party has youth camps on an isolated island. Seems shady.

Re:Labour Party Youth Camp?

[Dionysus]

My statement was more about the fact that a political party has youth camps on an isolated island. Seems shady.

Why? All the political parties in Norway have a youth branch that do summer camps. Norway is filled with islands. This particular island has been the summer camp place for the Labour party at least since the 80s (current Prime Minister went to summer camp there in his youth).

Re:Labour Party Youth Camp?

[cobrausn]

Thanks. That was the context I was looking for. Still seems odd to me, but that might be just me.

Re:I think people make too much of this kind of th

[uvajed_ekil]

Good for you. Apple has little direct impact on my life, so should I complain about all the iphone/mac/ipad/apple v. Google stories we see here? Of course not, and neither should you complain about something that doesn't immediately effect someone who never leaves suburban America. I suppose you think talking about 9/11 is pointless since you and your mom weren't there. /. isn't just for you. Don't like something? Move along to the next story, or submit a better one why don't you? You CAN contribute, you know.

Re:Not clear, yet, that it's terrorism.

[Dunbal]

Yeah I hadn't seen that - no one had put it online yet. Poor bastards. What makes a man want to kill people for an imaginary friend?

Re:And this is on /. why?

[Anonymous Coward]

IIRC, Slashdot posted at least one 9/11 story: http://slashdot.org/story/01/09/11/1314258/World-Trade-Towers-and-Pentagon-Attacked

Large Bomb - 1 Victim???

[gweihir]

These terrorists get more and more incompetent. Just running over people with a car would be far more effective, but instead they need a "large bomb" to do much, much less damage. I think these people are basically a lot less threatening as your run-of-the-mill drunk driver.

Re:Large Bomb - 1 Victim???

[jklovanc]

Two killed and 15 injured. Windows shattered in a 400m radius.That is a lot more damage than a drunk driver.

The main fact is that a drunk driving accident is not planned and intentional. Yes, a drunk driver know it is possible to kill someone but that is not their intent. We accept the fact that accidents happen but we are unwilling to rink planned bombings on our city streets.

Re:Large Bomb - 1 Victim???

[gweihir]

The windows are unproblematic. They are just show-effect. The 2 dead and 15 injured are a bit high for a drunk driver, but just yesterday one managed to injure 11 in Germany, one critical and 3 kids among them. The fact that the drunk driver does not plan to kill matters, but does not influence the risk for the victims. And the risks are that it is currently more likely to be hit by lightening than by terrorists, bit that it is a real risk to be mowed down by a car. So my point actually is that while this looks spectacular in the news, it is not a real risk to life or limb for anybody.

Also the "I know somebody that knows somebody" distance is not useful. Example: I flew into the US exactly 1 week before September 11. My Boss was on the phone with somebody about 2 miles form the towers as they collapsed. Pure coincidence on both counts. Fact is that there are so many insignificant possibilities to be connected to something like this, that many, many people will have them. One of the principles terrorism works on. And remember, it is not about killing or injuring people, it is about creating fear. The simple and very, very effective defense is to not give them that.

Fact is, the bomb is mostly show and any idiot can steal a car (or use his own) and drive into a crowd. That has about the same victim figures. A lot higher if the person doing it is halfway competent.

Re:Large Bomb - 1 Victim???

[jklovanc]

You miss the subtext. Terrorism is not a single person killing people or destroying property at random. It is organizations planning and carrying out acts of violence and destruction on civilian populations with the intent of changing policy. A terrorist campaign says that we will hurt your people any time we want until you do what we say. The individual acts do not mean much; it is the campaign that causes fear. A drunk driving through a crowd is a tragic accident. An agent of an organization driving through a crowd where the organization states they will do it again and again is a much different story.

Don't be afraid is an empty platitude. Would you feel safe knowing that there is an organization planning and carrying out acts that could kill you at any time or place? Sometimes fear is justified.

Re:Large Bomb - 1 Victim???

[arcade]

Bombing seems to just have been a diversion tactic. It killed at least 7.

The real target seems to have been AUF at UtÃya, where he has killed at least 84.

Unfortunately, he was extremely competent at terror. :-(

WRONG - worst drought on record

[decora]

this drought is bigger than the one in the 80s.

its causing mass migration which could lead to social upheaval and support for terrorists.

Re:Not clear, yet, that it's terrorism.

[Jeng]

I could see that to a point, but this looks way beyond that. From looking at some of the debris there, there are chunks of AC ducting from the walls on the street, pieces of desks, and parts of interior walls. Also the higher floors are more damaged than the lower walls.

This one has some good pictures, and yes people are still reporting that it may have been a car bomb. I have my doubts, but I'm known to be wrong.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3709878/At-least-32-feared-dead-as-terror-grips-Norway.html?OTC-RSS&ATTR=News

Whales' revenge?

[John Da' Baddest]

Could be a pain-sharing project from an environmental group, like Friends of Whales. Norway will kill > 1000 this year. This group already trashed Iceland's economy and Japen's reactors in protest. Do the math. How would YOU like to be harpooned?

Re:Not clear, yet, that it's terrorism.

[MrHanky]

No one knows what he/they killed for. So far, the only suspect -- and by suspect I mean the man who shot dozens of young aspiring politicians at the Utoya summer camp, who had also been observed at the bomb site some time earlier -- is white and Norwegian.

Yeah, I know that after 9/11 it's only natural to blame the islamists, but this one seems to belong to a different group. Unfortunately, though, quite a few idiots think it's reason enough to go out and beat up some darkies.

Re:There are millions of Muslims living happy, ful

[MrHanky]

Your opinion of Islam is the fucking mirror image of the Islamists you pretend to condemn. The reason why Muslims can live peacefully in the West is that people like you aren't in charge.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[shish]

My definition of "nerd" is someone who cares about something that normal people don't -- sure, you can be a politics nerd and you care about this, but just because you care doesn't make it nerdy; for it to be nerdy, other people have to not care (and by other people, I specifically mean the mainstream press).

By that definition, new software / scifi releases are valid, as slashdot is one of very few places to hear about them; cool medical research which hasn't hit the market is ok too, as you probably wouldn't hear about it otherwise; terrorism is something that every newspaper the world over goes on about endlessly, so having it here too is redundant.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[ravenshrike]

The only weapons moved by Fast and Furious were legit in the US for civvie use. There are plenty of heavy weapons in the hands of the cartels, but all of these were sold to the Mexican government or private entities either by or with the express permission of the US government. Of course, Mexicao is such a corrupt shithole that extremely large numbers of these weapons get used by the cartels.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[kaatochacha]

Did you really just reply twice to your own post?

The terrorist

[techtech]

an extreme-right person http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/artikkel.php?artid=10080610 captured.

Re:The terrorist

[techtech]

what they say now.

Re:The terrorist

[mikael_j]

And just for completeness, he's got a Facebook page.

Re:The terrorist

[Anonymous Coward]

"By world standards Obama is right wing". For all I know, he might have been about as extreme-right as Obama. I.e. not very.

Details

[Sobieski]

The man arrested for the shootings and also suspected to be behind the bombings is ethnic Norwegian.

He is a right-wing extremist.

Now end your rantings about islam.

P.S. If you want to rant about something: His facebook page says he's christian. And likes "reading and writing".

Re:And this is on /. why?

[riverat1]

Now that's in insightful comment.

Death toll increases

[Anonymous Coward]

80+ confirmed dead at Labour Youth Camp. Number expected to rise.

Re:Looks like GLADIO!

[cusco]

Members of Gladio were involved with P2, the Masonic cult that carried out the false flag bombing of train stations in Italy that were then blamed on the Red Brigades.

Homegrown Terrorist

[Anonymous Coward]

The terrorist is from Norway, and apparently acted alone. He didn't like his government, so he tried to destroy its buildings and murdered 80+ youth at a summer camp where the Prime Minister was due to speak. The camp is situated on an island, so many victims died trying to swim for their lives.

This is one of the most horrifying things I've ever heard of. I just can't wrap my head around it.

How does opposing an idea translate to the murder of innocent youth? What goal does that accomplish?

I have nothing but sympathy for all the victims and their families. This is all just so senseless...

Adjustment:

[techtech]

Conservative, right-wing, going to extreme extents. Thoughts documented of the person (in Norwegian): http://www.document.no/anders-behring-breivik/

Re:Adjustment:

[jsvendsen]

For those who don't read Norwegian, the suspect's 1500 page manifesto in English can be found at http://www.kevinislaughter.com/wp-content/uploads/2083+-+A+European+Declaration+of+Independence.pdf

Has no one heard the latest? Terrible slaughter!

[Paul1969]

Latest count is NINETY-ONE dead. The bomb only got 7; at least 84 were shot dead at the youth camp.
And it was a Norwegian right winger who did it. He dressed himself as a cop. He's in custody now.
Norwegians, unlike Americans, are a civilized nation. He will not be put to death. Indeed, he may not even spend his whole life in prison.

Broken Windows?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well... if the government has any common sense at all, they'll install Linux instead.... That should eliminate a LOT of broken Windows versions in the future.

And on a serious note... I only heard about like 5 minutes before I went ot work last night, people in the store kept me updated on the news during working hours... I don't think anyone had any doubt that I was kindof distressed at work, they all know I only moved from Norway 6 years ago...

First thing I did when I got home this morning was calling me mom to hear if she knew anyone living or working in the nearby areas of the explosion and/or Utøya

Re:And this is on /. why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because the perpetrator was a conservative fundamentalist christian who enjoys playing World of Warcraft. He tickles everything we love and hate here on slahsdot!

Thank You

[drinkypoo]

Notice how EVERYONE complaining about your sense of humor is an Anonymous Coward? People without the testicular fortitude to log in should be banned. It's not like you have to use an account tied to your identity to register.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[Risen888]

I'm a Norwegian nerd. It matters to me.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[Risen888]

I am an American of Norwegian descent. My thoughts are with you in Oslo.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[Risen888]

If you don't care about the story, you're free to move on to the next one. But if you clicked through just to whinge, you're a fucking jerk.

Re:I think people make too much of this kind of th

[Risen888]

If you had access to your FBI file you might not say that.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[CheerfulMacFanboy]

Why this could be of interest to nerds? Because (at least) one German TV report said "His friends said a often played the Killer Game (TM) "World of Warcraft".

Re:And this is on /. why?

[CheerfulMacFanboy]

Any foreign media implying that heavy weapons were permitted to be smuggled into Mexico by the ATF are lying to you. The only weapons involved in the ATF case are of the sort you can buy at gun stores.

Which are heavy enough that about the only way to get the illegally in Mexico is to import them from the US.

Re:Has no one heard the latest? Terrible slaughter

[Anonymous Coward]

You're a fucking idiot.

It is not society's job to "fix" (rehabilitate), at great expense to tax-payers, a person like this. For what purpose? Is he going to invent some miracle drug if he's rehabilitated? Just give him a lethal injection and be done with him.

Latest updates continuously on Wikipedia

[geirlk]

State as of now:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks

Re:And this is on /. why?

[shish]

If you don't like my comment, you're free to move onto the next one; unless you're a fucking jerk too ;-)

Though I actually think both our complaints are valid for the same reason -- you don't like having to dig through piles of whiney crap to find the on-topic comments, I don't like having to dig through piles of mainstream news to find the nerdy stuff~

Shaul Neumann from Israel

[Anonymous Coward]

I am ashamed that this lunnatic supports Israel. We have nothing to do with his idiology. My heart goes out for the families' loss and for the the tragedy the Norwegian people have to endure. We all condemn his vecious act and think he shoul be sitting in jail forever!!
May god bless the Norwegian people and strengthen the families' heart.
Shaul Neumann
A teacher from Israel

Re:Bloody Vikings

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't you mean haggis?

Re:Bloody Vikings

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

Haggis is delightful. Even the passable stuff in a tin.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[GooberToo]

Clearly you have no fucking clue how moderation works. Otherwise you're, "not fooling anyone", comment makes you sound like an idiot.