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The Oslo Massacre and Violent Video Games: the Facts
An anonymous reader writes "Media hysteria is once again blaming a real life massacre on violent video games. But looking at every single gaming reference in the Oslo killer's manifesto shows that such accusations are ridiculous. He played games to unwind from plotting and used them to mask his activities."
Violence is either caused by video games or angry Muslims, that's why we have to get rid of them both.
So if you play video games you're a nutjob in progress trying to conceal a mass murder..
in MEDIA-SPEAK (tm):
SO.. you kids are into gamez? Watchout! They maybe psychotic nutjobs planning the next mass murder!!!1
Video games are for killing brown people.
..You never see THAT headline do you??
Why is this being downgraded to a "massacre" now that we know the perpetrators aren't Muslim?
Call it what it was. It was a terrorist attack. That's a superset of massacre, and it wasn't merely some deranged nut suddenly going off--it was premeditated, and it was for political reasons. But it seems a lot of people are trying to push that under the rug.
The usual silliness.
You might as well blame the wetsuit manufacturer for making the wet suit he was photographed in for a youtube video, as it made him feel too much like James Bond.
The problem is not that he's a violent politically motivated murderer that plays video games.
The problem is that he's a violent politically motivated murderer.
In his 1500 page document he says he is a supporter of zionism and the state Israel, just after Norway announced they would support an Palestinian state this happens. Why is everyone ignoring this fact? Why are Christians and "right-wingers" being blamed?
If you play a video game as "training" to commit a violent act in the real world, the game is not the thing making you a violent psychopath, you're already there.
And their cronies like Abigail R. Esman, who condone these acts.
And I quote "But I fear that, unless Europe begins demanding that its Muslim population live according to its Enlightenment traditions and the values of democracy, he will not be the last." She means this as a threat. She is very, very pleased at what has transpired in Norway, despite any protestations she might make in postscripts to the contrary.
Forbes Condones Terrorism
In Finland, news are FULL of headlines related to the Oslo shootings (all news broadcasts, frontpages of all major papers, etc.). Before this SlashDot entry, I hadn't heard of a single reference to videogames. Everyone has concentrated on the political climate (norway has its own version of the tea party, as does pretty much every european country at the moment. All have gained a lot of popularity within the last two years, all are similar in their nationalism and anti-islam views).
I don't know about other countries but I certainly wouldn't call this a media hysteria about violent video games. It's some sort of strawman attention whoring.
Sometimes I wonder if the reason the media goes after video games has something to do with the fact that they are often in direct competition with each other for the (mostly) finite number of media consumption hours of the average person. I seem to remember the media, at least in the US, seemed to spend an endless time demonizing the internet and focusing on worst-case scenarios back of ID theft, scams, and viruses in the late 90's when they still thought they might snuff it out. I wonder in newspapers and radio engaged in these same tactics in against radio and TV when they were the up and comers?
It appears that radical right wing thought, conspiracy theories, bigotry, and a healthy dose of nationalism is to blame, but god damn that's hard to shorten in to a catchy headline.
Personally I think Monopoly is the root cause of all the financial problems we're having for the past years.
Privacy is terrorism.
Is there a correlation between journalistic reporting on violence and commiting violent acts...
Somebody get on it!
I would blame Microsoft Flightsimulator for 9/11
CoD and Battlefield has +100million players(I got no clue over real numbers)
1 went berzerk, so we must ban all games with guns in it!
Facts? There are no "facts" stated whatsoever in either this page or the article. I thought /. was relevant news without the hyped up media bullshit. I guess not.
I've had so many arguments with my wife about this but she does not understand.
This is why I play Crysis 2 all the time, to keep from killing aliens in real life.
P.S.
Osama Bin Laden never played a violent video game in his life.
His manifesto actually (readily available in english) makes a big deal out of how pretending to have a gaming addiction is really usefull for hiding nefarious activities. He wasn't a gaming addict, he was using it as a cover.
Also, if your media is one of those who kept harping on about this being muslims long after it was clear he was Norwegian you're probably better off without them either (I'm looking at you NY Times). The american coverage of this incident has been pretty much abysmal, and I'm sorry for being able to read english. I wish I couldn't.
However, while his gaming certainly didn't affect him, it's pretty clear that the fact that he was taking a coctail of anabolic steroids did. He even described it himself in his manifesto. To which extent we won't know until later, but we'll figure it out. There's plenty of time, and we have to grieve a bit of first.
Signed
A Norwegian
(Also; Glenn Beck; May you burn in hell)
"" How about taking the safety labels off everything, and let the stupidity-problem solve itself? """
It has been mentioned in the media here in Norway, but it's really not part of the discussion about why he did this. His political beliefs (anti-Islam, anti-Labour Party, etc) is the focus now. In addition to how much of a lunatic this guy really is.
The manifesto is full of details about just about everything, so it's easy to pick one small thing and focus on just that. Remember that this document is something he put together and published before the bomb and shooting, knowing that it would be read trying to find an explanation for what he did. If he expected to die, this was to be his legacy, I guess. So who knows how much of it is true and how much is how he wanted us to look at things.
Guess what? Anders Behring Breivik was a religious conservative.
If anything, it was the hate-filled politics of conservativism and of the Right Wing in general which drove Mr. Breivik. Video games is a red herring and a scape goat.
Its so predictable that some people will blame video games and the media when these things happen It really reminded me of the interview Michael Moore did with Marilyn Manson in Bowling for Columbine I really recommend people rewatch it as its still true now http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrHFB2KP8fc Maybe its the way that governments conduct themselves that should have the finger pointed at them before they start with the media - unfortunately its much easier to blame someone or a video game rather than look at a how governments legitimize violence and the effect that this might have.
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a reference to Godwin's Law approaches 1
This is exactly why he started playing World of Warcraft. His manifesto said that he would be able to use it as a cover for planning the attack because of the reaction people would have. He was expecting this and, if I had to guess, he'll probably use it to defend himself in his trial.
Because this document is going to be a political football for weeks to come, can anyone point me to where I can download a copy of this manifesto and see the nonsense for myself instead of having it cherry-picked by every pundit with an ax to grind? I see quotes from it all over the internet, but no link to the primary document.
i ~ Celebrating Science, Cyberspace, Speculation
It's ironic that by calling for action against what they judge to be violent entertainment these ones are, in fact, imitating the behaviour of the suspected perpetrator. Sure, their actions haven't risen to the point of violence against others, but their actions come from the same preconception: That their judgments of the beliefs, motives and actions of others are infallible and that they have the right to then force their opinions on others.
The only difference I see is that they seek to use the law to enforce their will, and the suspect had no hope of influencing government to act on his behalf and so took matters into his own hands.
Not here in Norway at least.
The facts are, he was a right wing nationalist, conservative christian and idolizing the Knights Templar and the crusades.
This is blinging
Am I the only one who thinks that the attempts to manufacture outrage here are pretty half-hearted?
There hasn't actually been any media "hysteria" around video games with this story, but I guess one hard up for ideas editor of - what is it even, an Australian gaming blog? - decides that there's life in the old girl yet.
Slashdot dutifully carries the thing, to stoke the requisite "nerd outrage" side of the story, but even that pretty much sputters out.
Can't we just agree that this one is not going to happen?
Maybe post a couple more BitCoin stories instead, that's sure to get the pageviews flowing.
sic transit gloria mundi
I think you can ignore mashiki's ramblings unimportant, and you should not hear his words
I don't know what its like elsewhere, but TV here now has more gruesome killings, murders and torture here every night than I could find in video games. Why is it that a little bit of nudity cuases USA to go nuts but death and destruction everyday is ok? I'm sick and tired oof US tv murders - each night annother how to do it and probably get away with it show. This continuous exposure desentitises and teaches more horrible deeds than any video game. Before watching all the us tv killings I had no idea how horrible I could be. Now I know how to shoot, stab torture rape and all manner of evil thanks to hollywood.
Why not return the age-old phrase killer? It's only a murderer when the killing is for relgious purposes, to my comprehension. So someone that is de-sensitized from violence but with no detectable religion might be looked upon as a killer? How about if any is un-challenged then we call that a serial killer?
A "massacre" sounds a little too religious, maybe even Catholic, but the Church of terrorism has nothing to do with this matter because it has no terrorists published of enrollment. Maybe the government is the entity that forces the association of unrelated matters into a religious clause of publication? That's what a non-incorporated corporation has been defined in US Code, so why should any governing body take it's own liberty to so brashly manufacture evidence and coerce association of unrelated matters into an organized criminal body? For instance, Sadam Hussein and Ossama Bin Laden were enemies towards eachother and both enemies to the United States, but US Government never could flawlessly publicize an association between Hussein and Laden as to sweeten the State legislators to consider more doctrines of limited liability rather than actual common law.
Is it obvious to anyone else that people with warped senses of reality might be drawn to video games?
It's not that video games create individuals with warped a sense of reality.
One thing I noticed when reading an article about the shooter was when they were mentioning his gun ownership. They noted he had 3 firearms registered under him: a rifle, a shotgun, and a Glock. They did not use the generic term pistol or handgun like they did with the rifle and shotgun, they specifically mentioned the gun manufacturer. When I saw this, it made me stop and think for a minute.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism
Basically the "OMG I'm opressed" ideologies (second wave feminism, closet black nationalism etc.)
TV delivers shiatload after shaitload of violence, usually with a full serving a bad-attitude. I guess that's too obvious to mention?
...and you are going to take his word that he's not addicted to video games? Should we trust anything else in the manifesto? You think he's a pretty insightful guy? Has he somehow demonstrated a level of intelligence to which we should all pay attention? Would I be somehow enlightened by reading it?
Seriously, people. So many of you talk about sheeple, then you turn around and grasp at _anything_.
" every far right culture conservative out there from American white supremacists too Western and Central European neo-Nazis to Serbian racist thugs will be declaring this guy some sort of champion. Polite society certainly will reject him, but the wingnuts, well, he's the perfect poster boy, handsome, dashing and articulately mad."
Well, the Hungarian far-right (Jobbik, MIÉP) is pro Palestinian, and anti Israel, and don't have much gripe against muslims, or immigrants, as there are very few immigrants (low wages). They are more concerned about gipsies as they procreate faster than Hungarians.
Of course Serbia is different story.
The argument against 1st person shooters, is that it desensitizes the player to killing (and because of active participation and "kills-per-hour" it is more powerful than violent TV/film). This does not turn every player into a killer - it is purported to make it easier for the deranged/personality disorder/extremist to make the transition to real killer AND for them to function better as a killer once they have begun pulling the trigger. I think the argument has merit but whether bans or R18 gradings are an appropriate response is more debatable. Its obvious that this guy's extremism is root cause, not his gaming.
They noted he had 3 firearms registered under him: a rifle, a shotgun, and a Glock. They did not use the generic term pistol or handgun like they did with the rifle and shotgun, they specifically mentioned the gun manufacturer. When I saw this, it made me stop and think for a minute.
You're barking up the wrong tree - this is cultural. Glock is the military handgun in Norway. If the rifle had been one used by the Norwegian military or universally known, it would have been named too, not just described as a rifle. Ruger Mini-14 would be meaningless to a Norwegian audience, but in a country with conscription, most people know what a Glock, AG-3 or HK-416 is.
Ohh, I suppose they just wanted their intelligent readers to trace the pistol's place of origin back to Austria. The weapon of choice for Neo-Nazi types. Not trying to be insensitive here, but Glocks suck. They have too much slide play in them. Clearly this guy wasn't very intelligent for a number of reasons, this being one of them. In a way, there could have been more casualties had he used any other pistol.
Hey all you gun nuts, calm down. Easy there guys...easy.....keep it pointed down.....there ya go.
Life is not for the lazy.
I personally blame religion. The Bible is full of hate and its no surprise many of its followers committed nasty stuff all many many years ago. After al its what god wants, he told the Israelites to kill their neighbours, steal their gold and rape their women. The only important thing they had to remember was tio praise god and condemn the others who were "different".
Having gone through a similar experience a few years ago in Tasmania, I sympathise with Norwegians and am very impressed by the peace march. If only Australians were so publicly ready to reject the psychotic musings of an individual with a gun. My heartfelt sympathies to the berieved. 80 years in an isolation cell ought to be useful. Lets see how his madness consumes him with nothing but padded walls and himself to contemplate.
The Australian Christian Lobby managing director Jim Wallace criticised O'Connor over his remarks and said that if even a few deranged minds could be "taken over the edge by an obsession with violent games" then the game should be banned.
"The studied indifference of this killer to the suffering he was inflicting, his obvious dehumanising of his victims and the evil methodical nature of the killings have all the marks of games scenarios," said Wallace.
"How can we allow the profits of the games industry and selfishness of games libertarians to place our increasingly dysfunctional society at further risk? Even if this prohibition were to save only one tragedy like this each twenty years it would be worth it."
You could use this reasoning to ban just about anything. Banning cars would save thousands of lives per year, banning planes would prevent the one in five(ten?) year plane crash that kills everyone onboard, ban swimming pools to prevent the hundreds(?) of drowning deaths per year.
Banning Christianity might have prevented this attack too...
Having been addicted for a period to WoW I could imagine that it would give you experience and practice in exactly those skills needed to do what this guy did. Organizing ammo and weapons, planning so no enemy comes unexpected, attacking two targets, even the camoflage.
Doesn't everyone play games now? Aren't we reaching the proverbial 'all murderers eat bread' argument by this time?
Nationalism is a right-wing ideology. I think the guy who shot Giffords was just mentally ill and can't really be accurately described as left OR right.
I really not sure if the games will do harm for us,but many people like play.I think maybe they think it a good way to vent the upset in life and they also can gain confident from the game .
http://www.coniefoxdresses.com
You might want to tell that same nonsense to law enforcement the world over who use the Glock on a regular basis for their standard firearm. Your comments makes me even wonder if you have ever actually used one or if your just one of those people who hates all guns just on principal alone.
Ruger Mini-14 would be meaningless to a Norwegian audience, but in a country with conscription, most people know what a Glock, AG-3 or HK-416 is.
I have no idea what an AG-3 or HK-416 is, but I do know what a Glock is. (Note, my country doesn't have conscription. And I also know what an Uzi, AK-47 or M-16 is. Some weapons are just more iconic than others.)
In Norway there are people with similar given name to that of the evil-doer. According to a norwegian news paper (Article: - It's like waking up and being named Adolf Hitler (norwegian)), they are already being harassed by anonymous callers. This is only the beginning of all the wrongdoing, false inferences and juxtapositions with connection to this disaster. I think we will see more intolerance and suppression in the norwegian society from this.. sadly. The media has already drawn parallels, in a negative connotation, between the terrorist and one of the large political parties (Fremskrittspartiet).
If there was actual influence by games, one could argue that playing WoW postponed his actions by a couple of years. You could even argue that if WoW had more fresh content, this may not have happened. Start a revolution? Not during a raid.
PDs generally use them because they get a discount buying them bulk (so I've heard). They're also throw-on-the-ground durable, ease of use, and cheaply mass produced. Basically a good service pistol for the money.
I don't hate Glocks. I simply do not like em. Just my opinion and that of others. Now personally, I prefer a Sig, Beretta, and Ruger. YMMV of course.
Life is not for the lazy.
It's only a murderer when the killing is for relgious purposes, to my comprehension.
Your comprehension is wrong, at least in UK usage. Murder is the legal term for deliberate homicide, as opposed to manslaughter, accidental killing or whatever. There are no religious connotaions to the word. If one atheist stabs another atheist to death with malice aforethought, he is a murderer.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
a better marksman though. He says so in his manifesto, it was in the latter half, maybe 900 pages or so in, in the marksmanship part where he talks about going to shooting ranges to up your marksmanship skill, he claims playing games like call of duty are a poor but acceptable substitute, which I thought sounded rediculous, but it's there.
It is not just violent games, it is combination of several factors.
There are violent games and really graphic violent games, which celebrate the gruesome details of violence.
And come to think about it, do we really want that automatic firearms are sold in the cities? Are not revolvers or a hunting shot guns enough?
This guy is hardly a Christian. He seems to be a white supremacist with delusions of grandeur (aren't they all?) and smart enough to create alternative reality and live in it.
Games had nothing to do with what he did - on the other hand this guy wrote >1000 pages memo so I'd definitively blame libraries and internet for giving him too much information.
every time one of these videogame-defending articles comes out, it comes across that games need to defend themselves, when they don't. Yeah, it was a nutjob. We don't need to be posting some clichéd "the Facts" in kneejerk reaction, it looks disrespectful to use a tragedy for political point-scoring. I'm sick of gaming communities using these incidents in such a way.
Trying to think when you don't have the proper equipment. Next time, let the adults to it for you son.
En stor nasjon som opptrer med verdighet, er du et eksempel for hele menneskeheten.
The Sproggg
Mine's been like that for ages. There is actually enough space to fit "than" in but it looked funnier with just "tha".
Subsequent sections include: Avoid ending up on watch lists and How to stay motivated for longer periods - perform a daily mental check and Motivational music tracks, artist: Saga
Should we blame Saga?
The article kind of stumbles on it toes by making that comparison. Possibly mistaking Saga for some other musician or group of musicians.
Here is the wikipedia article about Saga.
Here is the first video by Saga I found through googling for "Saga". Listen to the lyrics! Oh, and the NSF logo in the tight upper left corner is from a no longer active, but at its time particularly nasty and violent, Neo-Nazi group in Sweden (Nationalsocialistisk front - National Socialist Front).
Is Saga partially to blame for what happened? HELL YES! This kind of propaganda and the ideas she express always lead to things like this happening. Whether they are expressed by a dark bearded mullah in Iraq or a platinum blond singer in Sweden.
Did she imagine that she could inspire something like this? NO! Not likely.
Is computer games partially to blame for what happened? HELL YES! Like a good book or movie, a good game should expand your view of the world, not entrance you in your established world view. Also, many computer games ARE violent and PROMOTE violence as a mean of solving problem. Some people use them to get aggressions out of their system, other people use them to pump up their aggressions.
Did the makers of the computer games mentioned in the article imagine they could inspire something like this? Most likely no.