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The Oslo Massacre and Violent Video Games: the Facts
An anonymous reader writes "Media hysteria is once again blaming a real life massacre on violent video games. But looking at every single gaming reference in the Oslo killer's manifesto shows that such accusations are ridiculous. He played games to unwind from plotting and used them to mask his activities."
So if you play video games you're a nutjob in progress trying to conceal a mass murder..
in MEDIA-SPEAK (tm):
SO.. you kids are into gamez? Watchout! They maybe psychotic nutjobs planning the next mass murder!!!1
It's caused by people reading things on the internet but ignoring the true ones.
Funny that both things are usually caused / created by this particular country... Oh wait.
..You never see THAT headline do you??
Why is this being downgraded to a "massacre" now that we know the perpetrators aren't Muslim?
Call it what it was. It was a terrorist attack. That's a superset of massacre, and it wasn't merely some deranged nut suddenly going off--it was premeditated, and it was for political reasons. But it seems a lot of people are trying to push that under the rug.
The usual silliness.
You might as well blame the wetsuit manufacturer for making the wet suit he was photographed in for a youtube video, as it made him feel too much like James Bond.
The problem is not that he's a violent politically motivated murderer that plays video games.
The problem is that he's a violent politically motivated murderer.
If you play a video game as "training" to commit a violent act in the real world, the game is not the thing making you a violent psychopath, you're already there.
Sometimes I wonder if the reason the media goes after video games has something to do with the fact that they are often in direct competition with each other for the (mostly) finite number of media consumption hours of the average person. I seem to remember the media, at least in the US, seemed to spend an endless time demonizing the internet and focusing on worst-case scenarios back of ID theft, scams, and viruses in the late 90's when they still thought they might snuff it out. I wonder in newspapers and radio engaged in these same tactics in against radio and TV when they were the up and comers?
It appears that radical right wing thought, conspiracy theories, bigotry, and a healthy dose of nationalism is to blame, but god damn that's hard to shorten in to a catchy headline.
Personally I think Monopoly is the root cause of all the financial problems we're having for the past years.
Privacy is terrorism.
Go to the Telegraph's comments sections. There are a number of people posting there who have, I suspect, their own Knights Templar uniforms sitting in their closets. This guy isn't alone. I'm not saying his co-believers are common, but I suspect there are a few folks in Europe who harbor his dangerous delusions and narcissistic views.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Christians are being blamed because it is Biblical Christianity that supports "Zionism". Perhaps you haven't heard of the go to Bible verse: "I will bless those that bless thee and curse those who curse thee" (Genesis 12:3)? Most evangelical Christians I know are die hard supporters of Israel no matter what.
I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
"Why are Christians and "right-wingers" being blamed?
I guess you meant to write:
"Why aren't Christians and "right-wingers" being blamed?"
angry Muslims
Angry Muslims? Is that the game where the birds throw themselves at pigs, effectively committing suicide bombings?
(in a perfect world, I wouldn't have to post this anonymously...)
If you look at the comments under the first Slashdot story covering this, from when people still suspected the Muslims, you'll find several people agreeing with ABB's goals: a war against the Muslim world. Hos co-believers are far too common (more here than elsewhere, i suspect), but luckily very few of them agree with his methods or have the will to do what they think is necessary.
What seems to be happening, typically, is that a number of groups are attempting to disown Breivik. I'm not sure why, as the media and the police have made it pretty clear this guy was a far right extremist, and hardly typical of the moderate right anywhere in Europe. Still, you see Christians nitpicking at his Freemasonry to claim he isn't Christian, conservatives trying to find ways to move him away from any kind of right wing ideology, Norwegians declaring him sort of alien species (despite the fact that there has long been a small right wing and neo-Nazi movement in Norway). I guess that's typical enough, people want nothing to do with this kind of person.
To my mind, and I don't even play a psychiatrist on TV, Breivik seems a very narcissistic type. I mean, this guy went to all the trouble to write a 1,500 page manifesto of his mutterings, make himself uniforms (the picture of him in his neo-Templar uniform is precious), and along with some other nuts (whose doors, I'm assuming, are already being busted down) played a very bizarre private fantasy. The events of a few days ago are sadly where Breivik's private fantasy tragically intersected reality.
It's hard to call the guy insane in the general use of the word. He clearly planned this, and if he did it himself, he's shown no lack of diabolical genius in setting of the bombs then making his way to the island to con a bunch of kids into gathering around him so he could blow them away. There's no denying that's a mad, crazy act, but this guy knew what he was doing. He still hopes, it seems, to use the court as his soap box, and while the judge has deprived of him it for several weeks, eventually this is going to go to court and the Norwegian and international press are going to have to make the hard decisions of how much of this guy's ranting they should report or not. Based upon current reporting, this will be to sensational for them not to repeat his every utterance, and so, at the end of the day, even if they throw Breivik into a deep dark hole and throw away the key, he's accomplished a good deal of what he wanted. He's got the exposure, he's got people of like mind posting all over the place trite messages about how "we deplore the his methods, but what he says makes sense!"
People will compare him to Timothy McVeigh, and to an extent, it does seem that kind of terrorist act, but in some ways Breivik reminds me more of one Colonel Hitler, and I suspect before this is done, every far right culture conservative out there from American white supremacists too Western and Central European neo-Nazis to Serbian racist thugs will be declaring this guy some sort of champion. Polite society certainly will reject him, but the wingnuts, well, he's the perfect poster boy, handsome, dashing and articulately mad.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
His manifesto actually (readily available in english) makes a big deal out of how pretending to have a gaming addiction is really usefull for hiding nefarious activities. He wasn't a gaming addict, he was using it as a cover.
Also, if your media is one of those who kept harping on about this being muslims long after it was clear he was Norwegian you're probably better off without them either (I'm looking at you NY Times). The american coverage of this incident has been pretty much abysmal, and I'm sorry for being able to read english. I wish I couldn't.
However, while his gaming certainly didn't affect him, it's pretty clear that the fact that he was taking a coctail of anabolic steroids did. He even described it himself in his manifesto. To which extent we won't know until later, but we'll figure it out. There's plenty of time, and we have to grieve a bit of first.
Signed
A Norwegian
(Also; Glenn Beck; May you burn in hell)
"" How about taking the safety labels off everything, and let the stupidity-problem solve itself? """
It has been mentioned in the media here in Norway, but it's really not part of the discussion about why he did this. His political beliefs (anti-Islam, anti-Labour Party, etc) is the focus now. In addition to how much of a lunatic this guy really is.
The manifesto is full of details about just about everything, so it's easy to pick one small thing and focus on just that. Remember that this document is something he put together and published before the bomb and shooting, knowing that it would be read trying to find an explanation for what he did. If he expected to die, this was to be his legacy, I guess. So who knows how much of it is true and how much is how he wanted us to look at things.
Yeah, let's get down to the heart of the matter: Jews. Obviously this was orchestrated by the apartheid Zionist state, to extent their genocidal reach. It makes all the sense in the world. After this massacre, no one will dare vote in favor of of an independent Palestinian state. If they do, they'll be the next target.
Entomologically speaking, the spider is not a bug, it's a feature.
Its so predictable that some people will blame video games and the media when these things happen It really reminded me of the interview Michael Moore did with Marilyn Manson in Bowling for Columbine I really recommend people rewatch it as its still true now http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrHFB2KP8fc Maybe its the way that governments conduct themselves that should have the finger pointed at them before they start with the media - unfortunately its much easier to blame someone or a video game rather than look at a how governments legitimize violence and the effect that this might have.
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a reference to Godwin's Law approaches 1
This is exactly why he started playing World of Warcraft. His manifesto said that he would be able to use it as a cover for planning the attack because of the reaction people would have. He was expecting this and, if I had to guess, he'll probably use it to defend himself in his trial.
Because this document is going to be a political football for weeks to come, can anyone point me to where I can download a copy of this manifesto and see the nonsense for myself instead of having it cherry-picked by every pundit with an ax to grind? I see quotes from it all over the internet, but no link to the primary document.
i ~ Celebrating Science, Cyberspace, Speculation
It's ironic that by calling for action against what they judge to be violent entertainment these ones are, in fact, imitating the behaviour of the suspected perpetrator. Sure, their actions haven't risen to the point of violence against others, but their actions come from the same preconception: That their judgments of the beliefs, motives and actions of others are infallible and that they have the right to then force their opinions on others.
The only difference I see is that they seek to use the law to enforce their will, and the suspect had no hope of influencing government to act on his behalf and so took matters into his own hands.
Just read some of these comments on haaretz, they support the terrorist attack and say norway deserved it.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/international/norway-massacre-suspect-warns-of-two-more-terrorist-cells-1.375202#article_comments
Not here in Norway at least.
The facts are, he was a right wing nationalist, conservative christian and idolizing the Knights Templar and the crusades.
This is blinging
Excellent post! The whole thing has been orchestrated by him to try and get a global stage for him to spout his bile into the world (who are now unfortunately waiting to hear what he has to say). The best thing they could now is to keep the whole thing behind closed doors and not allow court reports to be released. Don't give the flame any oxygen and it will die out.
I meant "Corporal Hitler", btw, not "Colonel Hitler"
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Am I the only one who thinks that the attempts to manufacture outrage here are pretty half-hearted?
There hasn't actually been any media "hysteria" around video games with this story, but I guess one hard up for ideas editor of - what is it even, an Australian gaming blog? - decides that there's life in the old girl yet.
Slashdot dutifully carries the thing, to stoke the requisite "nerd outrage" side of the story, but even that pretty much sputters out.
Can't we just agree that this one is not going to happen?
Maybe post a couple more BitCoin stories instead, that's sure to get the pageviews flowing.
sic transit gloria mundi
If you get to the "Christianity" part, supporting Israel is strange. First, the promised land has already been given, the diaspora comes with the Roman destruction of the Temple but, by that time, Jesus had already spread the faith to the whole world. Some of the guys choose not to recognize Christ, to think they still have to get the promised land and await the Messiah? They are entitled to their opinion, but supporting this vision is not compatible with Christianity.
Yet nobody notices - or I am reading a different Bible, who knows.
Back to the topic, a guy who play games to practice is Not a gamer, end of discussion.
The truth: bad people have no faith, race, or nation (those are concepts they use to control their victims), instead of supporting or attacking this flag or that race, watch out for them.
---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
Rock-hard evidence, that is. Comments on a website.
Do you view Slashdot comments "raw"? If you do, you know that about 20% of Slashdot readers are Klan members. Sure, they get modded down, but they're not *erased*. This allows White Supremacy groups to communicate on Slashdot, where they know they have like-minded friends.
Entomologically speaking, the spider is not a bug, it's a feature.
I don't have any issue with this guys rantings getting out. I think we should read them and think about them, and if they're insane, discard them. But we shouldn't hide them.
How will we know if they're good ideas or not if we don't see them in their entirety? If we don't inspect and analyze them in detail? If we don't find the places that are morally unjustifiable and rip them to shreds?
As long as it remains a "1500 page manifesto" that no one has read, all kinds of people might believe that they agree with it. As a thoroughly refuted diatribe of insanity, everyone can reject it and move on.
I mean, isn't this why censorship is wrong? Forewarned is forearmed.
.there is enough of everything for everyone.
I'm not advocating censoring it. Quite the opposite. But let's not fool ourselves that like-minded people are going to look to Breivek's writings the way oodles of self-proclaimed revolutionaries have poured over Mao's Red Book or Hitler's Mein Kampf.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Using the same logic as the anti-video-games movement, we should completely ban religion as clearly it encourages mass murder!
... wait, what?
People will compare him to Timothy McVeigh, and to an extent, it does seem that kind of terrorist act, but in some ways Breivik reminds me more of one Colonel Hitler, and I suspect before this is done, every far right culture conservative out there from American white supremacists too Western and Central European neo-Nazis to Serbian racist thugs will be declaring this guy some sort of champion. Polite society certainly will reject him, but the wingnuts, well, he's the perfect poster boy, handsome, dashing and articulately mad.
That's probably inevitable, but I doubt it will be as widespread as you suspect. As much as he tried to describe his ideology at length, it doesn't stand much scrutiny, and it doesn't necessarily intersect with the beliefs of a lot of right-wing groups here in the U.S.
He specifically went out of his way to criticize National Socialism as a dead end and categorically stated that his "Neo Templars" were not a Nazi group, so that could alienate him from some neo-Nazis right there. (At the same time, he does seem to sort of identify with National Socialist groups. I suspect he doesn't actually disagree as much as he claims, it's just more of a "my way or the highway" kind of thing -- he doesn't see himself as a foot soldier but as a "commander.") The people who criticize his extreme nationalists beliefs he describes as "Hitlers" because they oppress right-minded people.
As for his enemies, he categorizes them all as "marxists," in ways that often do not make much sense. Someone who does not accept an extreme nationalist/racialist view of culture is a "cultural marxist" -- do those two words really go together? People with ideas he doesn't agree with tend to be "intellectual marxists," and so on. By comparison, he categorizes himself as a "cultural conservative," and his politics as "national conservatism." (Maybe his aversion to "marxism" explains his distancing himself from "national socialism"?)
There are a few things in his writings that some will snicker over, too. I'll just quote:
Although I have had a change of mentality a majority of my friends have not. My stepfather Tore, one of my best friends Marius and my more distant friends Kristoffer, Sturla and Ronny are all living manifestations of the complete breakdown of sexual moral. All five have had more than 300 sexual partners (two of them more than 700) and I know for a fact that three of them have one or more STDs (probably all of them). I have several other promiscuous (slut) friends and I could list at least 30 male and females in my social environment if I wanted to. I don’t blame them personally and it has absolutely nothing to do with envy. I could easily have chosen the same path if I wanted to, due to my looks, status, resourcefulness and charm. It’s just terribly sad that my country have been the victim of severe Marxist infiltration leading to the political doctrines which have been allowed to destroy all moral and norms, resulting in the complete breakdown of our once great ethical standards.
Got that? Sexually-transmitted diseases are a result of "Marxist infiltration" of society leading to the infection of its "sluts." He devotes several pages to what can be done about STDs, including the unfathomable cost to society of millions of infections, the effects of the shame felt by some people after diagnosis, etc. He goes on:
Artists such as Madonna, Lady Gaga and Christina Aguilera and series such as Sex and the City must be considered political activists/political movements and the lifestyles they propagate considered political propaganda. Alternatively, artists/series/movies propagating/glorifying promiscuousity must be restricted to liberal zones. .
. .
The following are a few arguments against excessive sexuality:
Breakfast served all day!
I think you can ignore mashiki's ramblings unimportant, and you should not hear his words
I don't know where you got that 20% figure, but I can think of a few obvious flaws.
If a fifth of slashdot's regular posters were crazy racists, and even a fraction got mod points, you wouldn't have to read the "raw" comments, they'd get upmodded by their fellow crazy racists. Hell, I've seen more creationist drivel upmodded than racist drivel, which should tell you something right there. As it stands I've seen plenty of racist remarks coming from accounts posting at 0 or -1 or from ACs, but the fact that they're consistently modded down suggests they're significantly in the minority. Plus, many of them are obvious troll comments, meaning they may or may not be KKK types IRL, but they want you to think they are in order to get you angry.
Five percent I'd believe. And that's defining "racist" in the broad sense.
Erotic is when you use a feather. Exotic is when you use the whole chicken.
Do you view Slashdot comments "raw"? If you do, you know that about 20% of Slashdot readers are Klan members. Sure, they get modded down, but they're not *erased*. This allows White Supremacy groups to communicate on Slashdot, where they know they have like-minded friends.
You're obviously joking. Klan members can't afford computers let alone Internet access. They'd rather eat the packet carriers of RFC 1149 than learn to read and write.
Not to troll here, but Hitler and Stalin were both atheist AFAIK.
I think, in his warped mind, it's an "enemy of my enemy" thing. He has it in for muslims. Palestinians are muslims. Palestinians have a beef with Israel. Q.E.D he mentions Israel in positive terms in his manifesto. Doesn't make him any less bigoted.
Erotic is when you use a feather. Exotic is when you use the whole chicken.
Her solution is distasteful, but her statement of the problem is accurate: Europe has a tremendous problem with xenophobia, one that's only become worse in recent years with increasing immigration from former colonies (many of which happen to be primarily Muslim). Because Europeans are generally used to thinking of their nations as being united by a common culture and (to a somewhat lesser degree) ethnicity, they tend to see those immigrants as outsiders and a social, economic, and religious threat. The 9/11 terror attacks, and the train bombings in London and Madrid, helped to justify that viewpoint to its adherents. If anything positive is to come of this, perhaps it will be to again remind Europe that homegrown radicals are every bit as capable of unspeakable atrocities as foreign radicals are.
Yes, and both played Chess, which is a board game, which obviously is a primitive version of video games! Burn them!
Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
But Religions non the less. Religion of a person, namely Staling and Hitler.
If you believe the internet, Hitler was whatever the opposite of the person posting is. In point of fact, I'm pretty sure he wasn't much of anything. Deeply narcissistic individuals don't do religion, except insofar as they wish others to worship them.
And he did have a cult of personality.
Something similar seems to hold true for most leaders of totalitarian states. If you're The Leader, then you honestly expect others to treat you as either an actual god (see: various historical tyrants), an agent of god (see: absolute monarchs) or an idol (see: Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Mao, Kim Jong-il, too many others to list). Anything less is disloyalty, and disloyalty is tantamount to treason.
Erotic is when you use a feather. Exotic is when you use the whole chicken.
I was just pointing out that there are crazy racist assholes everywhere. Any forum online has to deal with nutjobs, and the existence of these types of comments just shows that a site isn't moderating its comments properly. Racist posts on Slashdot get modded down almost immediately, I actually think it's one of the better moderation systems I've encountered.
Entomologically speaking, the spider is not a bug, it's a feature.
But let's not fool ourselves that like-minded people are going to look to Breivek's writings the way oodles of self-proclaimed revolutionaries have poured over Mao's Red Book or Hitler's Mein Kampf.
Perhaps not, but they might look to his writings the way people looked at Osama bin Laden's writings. Or Geert Wilder's Fitna. The new European right-wing have constructed a narrative where immigration and Islamification simultaneously represents both an invading army and the ultimate evil to be confronted, and one which the "liberal" governments of Europe are unwilling to fight, leaving brave determined indigenous people as the only resistance.
It is a compelling narrative for people who are that way inclined, and I expect we will be seeing much more violence of this type in the coming decade; the Guardian obtained some illuminating undercover videos of the EDL (who Breivik has been associated with) , which has been called "the most significant far-right street movement in the United Kingdom since the success of the National Front during the 1970s". They have successfully attracted all sorts: skin heads, disenfranchised youths, football hooligans, etc. and are stepping up the game by attacking mosques and planning marches through areas with large numbers of non-whites in an obvious attempt at provoking violence.
The Tea Party sought an alliance with the EDL last year. Oddly, some right-wing Jewish organisations also seem to be supporting the EDL - you'd have thought that encouraging European ethnic-nationalism was a dangerous game for an ethnic minority to play, but apparently they forget history and believe "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".
Ah, okay, I misunderstood. Or got too focused on the 20% figure.
Yeah, pretty much every corner of the internet has at least some crazy racists who frequent it. If you want an upside, they're fewer than they look; take the total number of racist remarks and filter out the obvious trolls, and then assume some of the rest are trolls being a little more subtle. Which doesn't mean the trolls aren't also racist (lots of people are at least a little racist and in denial about it), but it does mean that they aren't expressing their own true opinions, they're just going for shock value.
Erotic is when you use a feather. Exotic is when you use the whole chicken.
Sounds like a typical conservative Christian politician to me, though he is actually sincere. Looks like Norway's political culture of child indoctrination was successful.
(Maybe his aversion to "marxism" explains his distancing himself from "national socialism"?)
He distances himself from National Socialism because it is anti-Jewish. In his ideology, Israel is the frontline in a global fight against Islam, and Jews are the foot soldiers. They aren't Christians, and he probably doesn't want them living in Europe, but he's quite happy for them to be fighting his war in the Middle East.
There has been a very odd change in European extremism since 9/11 - the Jews, who were traditionally seen as the underhand enemy, manipulators of the banks, purveyors of the New World Order etc., have been embraced as brothers against Islam. This change isn't universal among extremists, but it is significant. I suspect the switch is purely one of convenience, and if these people were ever to gain power, then the Jews would be removed from Europe shortly after the Muslims and black people.
One thing I noticed when reading an article about the shooter was when they were mentioning his gun ownership. They noted he had 3 firearms registered under him: a rifle, a shotgun, and a Glock. They did not use the generic term pistol or handgun like they did with the rifle and shotgun, they specifically mentioned the gun manufacturer. When I saw this, it made me stop and think for a minute.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
...and you are going to take his word that he's not addicted to video games? Should we trust anything else in the manifesto? You think he's a pretty insightful guy? Has he somehow demonstrated a level of intelligence to which we should all pay attention? Would I be somehow enlightened by reading it?
Seriously, people. So many of you talk about sheeple, then you turn around and grasp at _anything_.
" every far right culture conservative out there from American white supremacists too Western and Central European neo-Nazis to Serbian racist thugs will be declaring this guy some sort of champion. Polite society certainly will reject him, but the wingnuts, well, he's the perfect poster boy, handsome, dashing and articulately mad."
Well, the Hungarian far-right (Jobbik, MIÉP) is pro Palestinian, and anti Israel, and don't have much gripe against muslims, or immigrants, as there are very few immigrants (low wages). They are more concerned about gipsies as they procreate faster than Hungarians.
Of course Serbia is different story.
Interesting, yet Breivik's use of the term doesn't really jibe with any of that description. He does make mention of the Frankfurt school, but he seems to feel the most overriding effect of "cultural marxism" is the spread of multiculturalism and the loss of "traditional European values," none of which is really mentioned in that article. The phrase is mostly just Breivik's code word for the vast global conspiracy that he perceives to be eroding everything he holds dear (no matter what it is).
Breakfast served all day!
"So that Breivik would have attacked Norway’s liberal Prime Minister and his party is horrifying – but it is therefore not terribly surprising: these are the politicians who, in the name of civil rights and equality, have made most of the concessions."
That sounds very much like blaming the victims... Let's see how that works:
"So that Hitler would have attacked the Jews is horrifying – but it is therefore not terribly surprising: these are the people who, in the name of civil rights and equality, have made most of the concessions."
"So that bin Laden would have attacked the people of New York is horrifying – but it is therefore not terribly surprising: these are the people who, in the name of civil rights and equality, have made most of the concessions."
For some reason, Forbes/Ms. Esman thinks it is reasonable to blame the "liberal" Norwegian victims for an attack in a way that she never would for other groups.
That's an interesting point.
In fact, not only does Breivik have pretty much the attitude toward the Jews that you describe, he extends the same sentiments to "Hindus," a term he uses to mean pretty much every non-Muslim population in Asia, including Sikhs, Jains, and Buddhists. That would be a pretty unusual position for your run-of-the-mill American racist.
Breakfast served all day!
Don't forget sarkasm. It jumps right into harmless peoples' faces and bites them...
Oh, the beautiful gloss of greality!
You might want to try Mao or Pol Pot, At least with them you could make a reasonable argument for your case.
Hitler said a lot of differenced things when it came to Christianity, Specifically he had a deep hatred of the church (Roman Catholic), This is often used, By many Christians, As a way to "muddy the waters" when dealing with the fact that Hitler was a Christian. Hitler was a Christian. He simply did not subscribe to the mainstream "version" being push by the church, That is; He believed that the church had "strayed" from real Christianity, And if we could only return to the good old days we would all be "saved" from the horror of the godless new world order! sound familiar?
Stalin is somewhat harder to declare Christian, How could the Stalin be anything but a godless commie?!?! Well.. Put on your tin-foil hat and google; stalin+jesuit
"Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." - Denis Diderot.
Sounds like a typical conservative Christian politician to me
Such ignorance. Grow up, and acknowledge that your ideological opponents are not the 'bad guys' in some comic book fantasy.
Note also how Abigail R. Esman consistently uses the word "assimilate" rather than "integrate". She and her ilk won't be happy until she is unable to detect that someone has ties to cultures which did not develop in Western Europe. And when that is finally achieved, the crescent moon armbands will be brought in.
Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
They noted he had 3 firearms registered under him: a rifle, a shotgun, and a Glock. They did not use the generic term pistol or handgun like they did with the rifle and shotgun, they specifically mentioned the gun manufacturer. When I saw this, it made me stop and think for a minute.
You're barking up the wrong tree - this is cultural. Glock is the military handgun in Norway. If the rifle had been one used by the Norwegian military or universally known, it would have been named too, not just described as a rifle. Ruger Mini-14 would be meaningless to a Norwegian audience, but in a country with conscription, most people know what a Glock, AG-3 or HK-416 is.
Ohh, I suppose they just wanted their intelligent readers to trace the pistol's place of origin back to Austria. The weapon of choice for Neo-Nazi types. Not trying to be insensitive here, but Glocks suck. They have too much slide play in them. Clearly this guy wasn't very intelligent for a number of reasons, this being one of them. In a way, there could have been more casualties had he used any other pistol.
Hey all you gun nuts, calm down. Easy there guys...easy.....keep it pointed down.....there ya go.
Life is not for the lazy.
LOL
By killing Jews he did not put himself into conflict with the Christians, 5 min. looking into European history will tell you; Killing Jews is the great Christian pastime.
"Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." - Denis Diderot.
Grow up
I'm not sure what that has to do with anything, to be honest.
and acknowledge that your ideological opponents are not the 'bad guys' in some comic book fantasy.
Well, since "bad" is subjective in the first place, to some people, they may very well be the "bad guys." And they're not necessarily wrong.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
They have successfully attracted all sorts: skin heads, disenfranchised youths, football hooligans, etc. and are stepping up the game by attacking mosques and planning marches through areas with large numbers of non-whites in an obvious attempt at provoking violence.
The EDL can't even muster decent numbers for a march most of the time. Their last effort, the police planned for the claimed 600 marchers, and had to police only 250 EDL members, who were seriously outnumbered by the anti-fascists who'd turned up for a counter-demo.
They've already called off one march through Tower Hamlets, because they'd get slaughtered. I'm sure they'll try to find a face-saving way of pulling out of the one planned for September as well. In much the same way as the KKK might act all big and tough in downtown Podunk, but wouldn't have the nerve to march through Compton, or Harlem; the EDL have most success in places which are predominantly white and working-class.
And yes, I suppose you could call them the most significant far-right movement in the UK, but that's only been because there really haven't been any others for comparison. Nobody takes them seriously, they're not perceived as having any real influence. It offends me that they have attempted to claim the UK flag as somehow 'theirs'. They're not soldiers, and certainly not the Aryan warriors they often present themselves as being. They're shouty morons, fuelled by bad lager and stupidity.
Not to troll here, but Hitler and Stalin were both atheist AFAIK.
Actually its nice that you can lead the topic towards other forms of media and belief that are known to invoke violence, murder and even genocide in others. Your also very wrong about Hitler. Hitler was a catholic and in fact a number of quotes from him leave the chilling idea that some of his antisemitic atrocities were inspired by his faith.
"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
http://nobeliefs.com/hitler.htm
It's caused by people reading things on the internet but ignoring the true ones.
Though I do not believe censorship has any place in computer games, perhaps developers should at least be responsible in what they create. Please before you comment in support of games like I have below, at least watch this clip of the Call of Duty airport scene to understand why many people are going to find it very easy to blame violent games for this shooting spree, bearing in mind the guy did in fact describe the game as part of his training.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f2Nq79zM0o
When people push the boundaries are far as they can for the sake of short term ratings and hype, in some ways its very irresponsible and extremely damaging in the long term to the freedom games developers currently enjoy. Yes its nice to think of a world where people should have absolute artistic freedom but that's not the world we currently live in and there is still a fine line.
Having been addicted for a period to WoW I could imagine that it would give you experience and practice in exactly those skills needed to do what this guy did. Organizing ammo and weapons, planning so no enemy comes unexpected, attacking two targets, even the camoflage.
Doesn't everyone play games now? Aren't we reaching the proverbial 'all murderers eat bread' argument by this time?
Yeah. For us in Europe, it ranks second only to killing other Christians.
Well, Muslims actually don't care that much for kosher. They do however like their food to be hal'al (if I remember the phrase correctly)
The two are effectively identical, which is why so many of the kosher butchers in this part of the world are run by Muslims.
There's basically no real difference between Islam and Judaism, except for the bit about lending money.
If you get to the "Christianity" part, supporting Israel is strange. First, the promised land has already been given, the diaspora comes with the Roman destruction of the Temple but, by that time, Jesus had already spread the faith to the whole world. Some of the guys choose not to recognize Christ, to think they still have to get the promised land and await the Messiah? They are entitled to their opinion, but supporting this vision is not compatible with Christianity.
My thoughts exactly. Christian Zionists seem to have missed something important that happened nearly 2000 years ago.
You might want to tell that same nonsense to law enforcement the world over who use the Glock on a regular basis for their standard firearm. Your comments makes me even wonder if you have ever actually used one or if your just one of those people who hates all guns just on principal alone.
Ruger Mini-14 would be meaningless to a Norwegian audience, but in a country with conscription, most people know what a Glock, AG-3 or HK-416 is.
I have no idea what an AG-3 or HK-416 is, but I do know what a Glock is. (Note, my country doesn't have conscription. And I also know what an Uzi, AK-47 or M-16 is. Some weapons are just more iconic than others.)
If there was actual influence by games, one could argue that playing WoW postponed his actions by a couple of years. You could even argue that if WoW had more fresh content, this may not have happened. Start a revolution? Not during a raid.
Christians are eager to mod you up even if your claim has no base in reality. That's so typical of religious folks.
Hitler was Christian in his public life. His mother and father were Catholic, but he personally identified more with teachings of Martin Luther. Maybe this was because Luther had very anti-Jewish views. In his book Von den Juden und ihren Luegen (On the Jews and Their Lies) Luther described jews as:
"base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth."
Seems like Hitler found a soulmate in Luther.
In Mein Kampf Hitler wrote:
" The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated. For God's will gave men their form, their essence and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will. "
Those aren't words of an Atheist, are they?
angry Muslims
Angry Muslims? Is that the game where the birds throw themselves at pigs, effectively committing suicide bombings? (in a perfect world, I wouldn't have to post this anonymously...)
No, it's generally quite a good idea to remain anonymous if you're a bigoted twat, otherwise people won't take you seriously.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Using the same logic as the anti-video-games movement, we should completely ban religion as clearly it encourages mass murder!
Works for me, I don't mind abusing logic for the greater good.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
I hate to break this up, but can everyone please remember that "All X are Y, therefore all Y are X" is a failure of basic logic, just as much as "As one X was Y, therefore all X are Y".
Religion is a bad thing in and of itself, it doesn't need to be assocciated with Hitler/Stalin to achieve that status.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
PDs generally use them because they get a discount buying them bulk (so I've heard). They're also throw-on-the-ground durable, ease of use, and cheaply mass produced. Basically a good service pistol for the money.
I don't hate Glocks. I simply do not like em. Just my opinion and that of others. Now personally, I prefer a Sig, Beretta, and Ruger. YMMV of course.
Life is not for the lazy.
It's only a murderer when the killing is for relgious purposes, to my comprehension.
Your comprehension is wrong, at least in UK usage. Murder is the legal term for deliberate homicide, as opposed to manslaughter, accidental killing or whatever. There are no religious connotaions to the word. If one atheist stabs another atheist to death with malice aforethought, he is a murderer.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
It is not just violent games, it is combination of several factors.
There are violent games and really graphic violent games, which celebrate the gruesome details of violence.
And come to think about it, do we really want that automatic firearms are sold in the cities? Are not revolvers or a hunting shot guns enough?
Go to the Telegraph's comments sections. There are a number of people posting there who have, I suspect, their own Knights Templar uniforms sitting in their closets. This guy isn't alone. I'm not saying his co-believers are common, but I suspect there are a few folks in Europe who harbor his dangerous delusions and narcissistic views.
Except that for most readers of the Daily Telegraph, the Knights Templar would be dangerously foreign, possibly even French.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
What ever makes you refer to logic??? The issue here is Religion! There is no logic!
This is, For my part, Not about associating Hitler/Stalin with Religion, But disassociating them from Atheism. The idea that Hitler was an Atheist is a new meme, spread by Christians, And it is manifestly false. The NAZI-Party, And Hitler as a person, Was both very Christian.
As fore; "Religion is a bad thing...", NO! Religion is insanity! And until people stop treating the religious with respect, And start treating them as sick, We will continue to see religious people do the kind of sick, demented shit, That this breivik asshole have done.
"Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." - Denis Diderot.
Wrong.
As many have mentioned, Hitler was a catholic, as most Austrians are. Stalin was orthodox christian, he was even at the seminary for years and almost became a priest.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Mind reader, are you?
I fear that, unless you replace those tires, you will wrap your car around a tree.
Is that a threat too, you kumbaya-singing prick?
But implicit there is the idea that the tires are dangerous, and most of us do not believe that about Muslims.
Once you sign up to the idea that the evil Muslims and the Marxist overlord politicians are going to destroy our way of life, you are most of the way to agreeing with the nutbag Norwegian gunman (as with Charlie Brooker in the Guardian, I refuse to use his name as that is what he would want, even though it makes no difference).
PS I think it's mostly Christians (like the nutbag Norwegian gunman) who sing kumbaya.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Europe has a tremendous problem with xenophobia, one that's only become worse in recent years with increasing immigration from former colonies
The problem with xemophobia is with the xenophonbes not the immigrants.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
I don't have any issue with this guys rantings getting out.
No, but that doesn't mean that the world's press have to print every single fucking word he ever writes or says. You don't need to censor him, just ignore him. If in future some fellow retards cite his "manifesto" as inspiration for their own stupidity, it really doesn't matter.
It's like all the US exreme right wing fucknuts who try to promote the Turner Diaries like it's the new Bible, when all you need to know is a summary of the book and to read a couple of pages to know it's the work of a poisonous poltroon.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
The Hitler/Atheism claim confuses me as well. Hitler told his Christian nation to kill the Jews for Christian reasons. And they did it. If he'd have told them to do it "because there is no god", they'd have probably scratched their heads in confusion.
.there is enough of everything for everyone.
Sometimes it is good to have more than one hobby. Burning witches was also popular in Europe, for a while.
To my mind, and I don't even play a psychiatrist on TV, Breivik seems a very narcissistic type. I mean, this guy went to all the trouble to write a 1,500 page manifesto of his mutterings, make himself uniforms (the picture of him in his neo-Templar uniform is precious), and along with some other nuts (whose doors, I'm assuming, are already being busted down) played a very bizarre private fantasy. The events of a few days ago are sadly where Breivik's private fantasy tragically intersected reality.
It's hard to call the guy insane in the general use of the word. He clearly planned this, and if he did it himself, he's shown no lack of diabolical genius in setting of the bombs then making his way to the island to con a bunch of kids into gathering around him so he could blow them away. There's no denying that's a mad, crazy act, but this guy knew what he was doing. He still hopes, it seems, to use the court as his soap box, and while the judge has deprived of him it for several weeks, eventually this is going to go to court and the Norwegian and international press are going to have to make the hard decisions of how much of this guy's ranting they should report or not. Based upon current reporting, this will be to sensational for them not to repeat his every utterance, and so, at the end of the day, even if they throw Breivik into a deep dark hole and throw away the key, he's accomplished a good deal of what he wanted. He's got the exposure, he's got people of like mind posting all over the place trite messages about how "we deplore the his methods, but what he says makes sense!"
Insane doesn't mean stupid. Clearly he believes he is the head of something bigger.
Trying to think when you don't have the proper equipment. Next time, let the adults to it for you son.
Tell that to the people in Gaza and Israel ;-)
Well, the problem there is not that the Palestinians are Muslim - many Palestinians are Jewish. The problem that the Israelis have is that they are *Palestinians* and occupying land that they want. So, the poor old Palestinians get herded up and slaughtered wholesale so that the Israeli government can expand its lebensraum.
I don't think that Hal'al don't have any of the phobias on mixed preparation of Milk and Meat.
Neither does kosher; or rather, not all Jews or Muslims are *that* fussed about kosher or halal, and frequently "only when it suits them". I have a Muslim friend who is a good Muslim boy and prays four times a day when he's at his parents house, and observes Ramadan because otherwise his mum would throttle him - even if it means giving up the bacon rolls for salad, and staying off the single malt ;-) I'm told Koran says that it's haraam to eat pork, unless there's nothing else to eat in which case it's clearly far more haraam to starve yourself to death when there's perfectly good pork on the go, and that the Jewish scriptures contain something pretty similar. There are some Christian faiths that have similar dietary restrictions to Islam and Judaism, but I can't remember the names offhand.
It all sounds like personal affectation to me, anyway. If they'd been stuck on a bus for 18 hours they'd still eat a bacon roll if you fed them it.
LOVE your sig!
Only I dont have any problems with kings....
En stor nasjon som opptrer med verdighet, er du et eksempel for hele menneskeheten.
The Sproggg
Mine's been like that for ages. There is actually enough space to fit "than" in but it looked funnier with just "tha".
That's right. Everything in life is subjective.
Pass me that bong, dude.
Well there's the polygamy. And the wine. But apart from that...
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I see what you did there.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I don't recall voting for you as spokesman, but if that's the case "most of us" should emigrate to Iran.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."