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Ask Slashdot: What's a Good Tablet/App Combination For Note-Taking?
EmagGeek writes "My wife recently started back to school to finish her 4-year degree, and one of the things that we've been considering is procuring for her some kind of tablet that would enable her to take notes in class and save them electronically. This would obviate the need to carry around a bunch of paper, and could even be used to store e-textbooks so she doesn't have to lug 30lbs of books around campus. At minimum, she would have to be able to write freehand on the tablet with a fine-point stylus, just like she would write on paper with a pen. We've seen what we call those 'fat finger' styli and found that they are not good for fine writing. Having become frustrated with the offerings we've tried so far, I thought I would ping the Slashdot Community. Any suggestions?"
IPad with a fold-up keyboard? Taking notes with a small stylus (quickly) seems really hard -- end up spending more time to correct the notes taken than keeping pace with the lecture and notes that need to be taken.
Why not record the lecture? A stylus doesn't provide a very good handwriting experience, and not using one would allow her to use an iPad.
Don't even think of clicking.. goatse alert. Way to get me fired, bro
I'm just finishing a graduate program and my iPad and bluetooth keyboard/case combo have definitely made the long treks across campus easier. Evernote is fantastic for note taking and it has a feature that allows you to record audio... great for snagging lectures and random professor rants. Evernote syncs what you write/record to the cloud which has allowed me to have access to my materials anywhere. And I haven't lost a note yet!
Word of warning: If she is going to use a tablet for taking notes, the external keyboard is a must. Before I picked mine up, my wrists were aching after even short typing sessions in class.
A pen and some paper. This method is proven to increase later recall of the subject matter. [too lazy to provide citation]
"I'm just here to regulate funkiness."
Rather than a tablet have you looked at the livescribe pens - audio + hyperlinked notes.
http://www.livescribe.com/
If handwriting is desired, I generally would recommend against an iPad. I've been using one with a stylus, and the non-intelligent screen just doesn't work well enough.
A friend of mine has a convertible X-series thinkpad, and it's great for them, with intelligent built in stylus + OneNote.
http://us.store.creative.com/Creative-ZiiO-7-Entertainment-Tablet-16GB/M/B004DJQXDW.htm
Resistive Screen, comes with a stylus.
Runs Android but has not access to Android Market - not a problem, you can still download APKs and install it onto the device.
Evernote would be the app you you are looking for for Note-taking, you can download the APK for that no problem - it's freeware.
Granted, Slashdot will ignore anything you type anyhow. That said, it would be helpful to know the solutions which were insufficient. Otherwise, we'll just all post stuff you've tried (assuming the OP is reading this).
That said, I've found few things work as well at digitizing notes than the various digital paper options out there. I have a therapist client that uses it for her case notes and then an iPad for content she takes with her. I'd probably prefer the 7" form factor but by offloading the more finicky aspect, handwriting, to a dedicated medium you then have many more options for the content portability.
My client uses a DigiMemo product but there are quite a number out there with various options you might look into.
You know the thing about UDP jokes? I don't care if you get it or not.
No tablet as exists today are incapable of taking good usable notes, or if they are (Microsoft OneNote running on a Samsung Series 7 with Windows 7) then they certainly won't exceed a regular laptop with a keyboard. People love to claim the technology is up to that stage but as someone who has foolishly wasted more money that I would like to admit on the tablet dream, I can tell you that, no, you're just wasting money.
The "main issue" I've found is two things, first off handwriting recognition is crap. Secondly that even when it works there isn't any real integration with the rest of the system, so the resulting text and diagrams is an uncategorised orphan unusable by anything of use.
Android and iOS are great consumers of content but they're terrible producers. The software is lacking, the interface designs are arse-backwards, and all it ultimately results in is an inefficient irritating system that you might have well not use. Things like the Android Transformer almost prove my point for me by opting for a keyboard and Microsoft Word-clone like software to increase your productivity. If the fact that the best Android can do is to copy a "normal" laptop then that is as damning of a statement of the state of tablets as I can tell.
You don't have to give up on paper. If you are also thinking of getting a printer as part of going back to school, try getting a combination printer/scanner with an auto document feeder. I'm happy with our Canon Pixma 420 (around $100). It's pretty quick to scan 50 pages to PDF.
If her handwriting is decent, it'll even OCR it for her.
If she likes 4x8 notepads, those will scan and display decently on even a Kindle.
If this cheap alternative doesn't work, you still have a decent printer and can still get something digital.
The world is made by those who show up for the job.
The Lenovo tablet was designed to enable note taking, with an intelligent stylus that communicates with the tablet, and handwriting recognition software as well. My girlfriend has one and likes it quite a bit:
http://www.lenovo.com/products/us/tablet/thinkpad/
Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean that they're not out to get you.
dont click. goatse
After trying many options over the years I still find the tried and true paper version works the best. I recommend a small netbook + real notepad. There is just no real substitute for paper yet. I love das blinkinlights as much as anyone but when it comes to a classroom environment, a paper and pencil just works. Especially for math formulas. The only college classes where I used a computer to take notes were programming ones. A laptop or netbook works better because you can use VI or other editor of your choice to copy code examples much more quickly. Also doesn't hurt to be able to actually compile and test something right then and there.
Unless she is getting her degree in the humanities, there will be parts of the lecture that include equations, graphs, and diagrams that are hard to input with a keyboard. Nothing beats handwriting for that sort of content.
As others have pointed out, there is no viable substitute for pencil and paper, unless she happens to be taking a class where drawings and diagrams will not be used and everything can be typewritten and she had excellent keyboarding skills. Get a good ADF scanner and a good PDF program (such as Bluebeam for the desktop - about $150, but $100 for students) and for her portable (any reader for laptop or something like Goodreader with a dropbox sync account for iPad). Know that finding information in a tablet PDF quickly is an exercise in frustration. Doubly so if that data is in the cloud.
It was my preference in school to use plain copier paper with a sheet of cardstock behind it printed with heavy lines or grid. I've scanned a bunch of notes, but I'll be honest - I keep a paper copy of my "test" sheets in a three ring binder next to my desk for reference. They condense a semester of graduate course work into about 8 very well organized notes per class.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
This doesn't meet the ground rules you laid out, but you could consider taking notes on paper and then getting electronic copies of them.
I'm thinking of the Livescribe products. It's a smart pen/dot paper combination. The big additional win from the Echo or Pulse smartpen is that it will record audio while notetaking. There is an add-on app for the pen that lets you use it as a stylus for your mouse cursor on the laptop (the pen must be tethered to the laptop with a usb cable). I've never used that aspect of the pen.
The recorded audio can be cued up after class by just pointed to the note you wrote at the same time, as well as by more normal play/pause/scrub controls.
Also, the handwritten text can be searched in the base desktop application. There is an additional software that will convert the handwritten image to fully editable text - but again, I haven't bought it or used it.
You can also send complete audio/image combinations to an online account and sync them with your iPad/iPhone, so you don't need to carry around all your notebooks just to read them, though you will need them if you'd like to take new notes (assuming you keep one notebook per class, as intended)
To be honest, I bought this long after school, because I thought it was so damn cool. I haven't had much call to use it, so I can't really be for or against it. Anyone else use it in an actual class?
http://www.livescribe.com/
Get Microsoft OneNote - it has some crazy fuzzy search ability that lets it search through handwriting, text, and audio without converting the analog sources to text first. Since it doesn't first convert to text, it doesn't commit to a single representation of audio, and just searches by sound, so you don't have the issues of badly converted audio. It just lets you jump to the point(s) in the recording that match sound-wise. It also keeps track of when you take written / typed notes vs. the audio recording, so you can follow the lecture with your notes.
Then go get a MotionComputing tablet off of e-bay. They are WAYY to expensive to buy new ($2500+), but they are awesome, and can be bought off ebay for $300. Something like the LE1700 - get the detachable keyboard too if you're likely to want that. Or else, find one of the fujitsu or acer tablets. All these tablets have wacom digitizers, with a pressure sensitive pen, a right-click button on the pen, and the ability to hover, so interfaces work as well as they do with a mouse.
I second the recommendation. Your tablet is a pad of paper and the app is a really cool pen. I just wish it was around when I was in college.
We considered this for our son in college (he wasn't interested), and if I were attending lectures, I'd sure get one of these! The pen records audio as you take notes. Later, tap on the page somwhere and the pen plays back what the instructor was saying at the precise time you were writing at that spot on the page. Can also download the audio to your computer, and does many other things too. Check it out at www.livescribe.com.
A Livescribe pen would let her take notes like normal and record the lecture. Plus Livescribe will also let you take notes for all your classes in one notebook, and then you can sort the notes into individual classes ion the computer. So only one notebook to carry around at a time. AND the notes can then be put into PDF or loaded into Evernote so you can read them on whatever device you want. Easy and familiar to use to record information and easy to sort it and use the notes later. I love mine for notes in meetings and my own projects!
The pen I have is the 2GB model, which can hold the notes for several classes for a whole semester. I received it as a gift, but they are fairly inexpensive these days, especially given what you'd pay for tuition, books, etc.
The benefit of this approach is that in addition to text notes, you can also draw any diagrams by hand. The audio has also saved my *ss several times, since I could go back and listen to the lecture on important points that were covered too quickly to get them all down on paper.
Recording is nice because you get all the content, however, it is much slower to retrieve that content than flipping through notes. I've known several people who tried recording lectures, and only one who actually used them after-words. I for one hate it when information online is only provided in video form. Having my notes in that form would drive me crazy. Video is best as a supplement for notes in situations where you have a professor that covers material not in the book, doesn't post good lecture notes, and insists on lecturing faster than you can write. In other situations it is just a hassle.
And like others mentioned, not all schools/professors allow recording of lectures.
and not using one would allow her to use an iPad.
So? Why choose a device that doesn't meet your needs and work around it, when there are devices that do?
The HTC Flyer is especially designed for this type of usage. It comes with a stylus and full Evernote integration. Plenty of demo videos on Youtube, if you want to know more.
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Your only tablet choices, unfortunately, are bad or none.
Engineering lectures have lots of schematics, equations, and diagrams, so keyboard entry alone just doesn't cut it. You have to use a pen.
For myself (as an instructor), I use a Fujitsu tablet combined with OneNote to manage and organize my notes. It is your typical Windows tablet abomination, painful and clumsy to operate, with your hand constantly brushing against the terribly placed scroll control, but it is better than nothing. The "feel" of the pen on the screen doesn't match the feel of pen on paper, and no matter how you calibrate the screen, the pen registration is never quite right at the edges. The hassle was still worth it to me because I needed some way to edit my course notes and generate PDF copies on demand, but I wouldn't recommend it to a student trying to take notes during lecture.
A tablet for handwritten notes is one of those markets that I fervently wish Apple would enter. At least we'd have one vendor that might get it right, as opposed to all the Windows kludges out there. But for now, I'd recommend taking notes on paper, then scanning them into some soft copy format.
As for recording the lecture: DON'T. Take notes. It forces you to engage your mind during the lecture, and dramatically improves your recall of the material. Recording a lecture just means you're forcing yourself to sit through it twice. Take good notes during lecture and you'll save yourself a lot of time and effort afterwards.
I found it to be more useful to do all the day's reading ahead of class and then don't bother taking any notes. Just listen and pay attention. And ask questions.
Before that, I'd go in clueless and spend the whole class furiously taking notes. I'd miss major points and then go home with incomplete notes that I'd never have time to review anyways.
Probably that and learning how to prioritize are how I went from nearly flunking out to a 4.0 on an overload schedule.
Godaddy is a scam and a ripoff.
http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-io-Personal-Digital-Pen/dp/B00006JP23Logitech IO pen will allow to have notes, digital notes and some sort of text recognition at the same time. I used it long ago with some satisfaction. Note that technology has evolved since, and I cannot refine my statement with today's standards... Anyone?
I made it through Vector calculus mostly without studying (I then tutored calc 1-3 for paying students). The act of paying attention and taking notes was sufficient to get it all into my head with understanding. I did occasionally read my notes or the book, but the writing is what worked for me. That's just me, everyone has their way of learning. I learn by doing, and taking notes is close enough to doing I guess. Another professor I had gave out printed course notes with each lecture. They had key pieces missing, so you had to pay attention to fill in the blanks, but the writing workload was significantly reduced so you could think about what it meant more. That also seemed to work well - it's like taking notes without the distraction.
or there's the Samsung Galaxy Note that is basically an oversized Galaxy S2, but comes with a stylus.
Why don't you just buy a notebook (not electronic) and a bunch of pencils. Nothing beats the flexibility, increases uptake of the new material and still allow for active listening, is not distracting (no internet and facebook or chat) than pen and paper. If you really want to have your lecture notes in electronic format, type them up in LaTeX later at night and compile to PDF. But for actual note taking nothing beats pen and paper.
As the island of our knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance.
Galaxy Note
No one have mentioned this yet? Weird, it looks perfect for what he asks for. Top of the line Android smartphone/tablet hybrid with support for both hands and stylus.
It's The Golden Rule: "He who has the gold makes the rules."
I recently tested several note-taking apps for the purpose of taking notes during meetings.
I tested several apps looking for an app that supports handwriting and keyboard text entry, offline synchronization (dropbox), and pdf import and markup for adding notes to handouts or diagrams. Based on this criteria, I would recommend Noteability and NoteTaker HD. NoteTaker HD is the more full featured app, but Noteability is a little more user friendly and still has all the key features I was looking for. Noteability is only $.99 and NoteTaker HD is $4.99. NotesPlus also has some potential, but could use some polishing. I imagine after the next major upgrade it will probably move to the top of my list since it was missing features like dropbox and pdf markup.
As for a stylus, I got a Kensington stylus from Amazon that also has a pen on the other side. Compared to some of the other ones my coworkers have, this one has been the best. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004BSF1I8/ref=asc_df_B004BSF1I81783797
I love my Asus EP121 tablet with a real digitizer pen (not a fat finger stylus), using technology licensed from Wacom (same technology as Bamboo and Cintiq devices). I use it to take notes with diagrams, and math symbols. I also use it to do all my math and physics exercises. On other tablets I tried before this one, the pen sucked - it worked but was not accurate enough to efficiently draw diagrams. For taking plain text notes, a keyboard (which the Asus EP121 supports) is more efficient, but in fact I found that I learn more efficiently by taking notes with the stylus. I assimilate the information better this way, probably because I type too fast and have spare time to think about other things while the teacher is talking. So having the pen slow me down ensures that I stay focused.
The ThinkPad Tablets are tough as nails and include a digitizer screen and stylus. They sense when you are using the stylus and can filter out your palm touching the screen so they are very comfortable to write on.
My experience, after about a month of using the following setup, is that it replaces any need for pen and paper, at least for what I use it for. I do a lot of note taking in meetings, etc, and that often includes diagrams. My setup: Ipad2 Evernote Dropbox NoteShelf an Adonit Jot Pro Stylus. (This is as good as a balpoint pen on paper, with the right note taking app). I've also tried out UPad as a note taking app, it works quite well - I just preferred the look and feel of the writing in NoteShelf overall.
Years ago, I managed to convince my friend to get an X41 Tablet (http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:X41_Tablet) when it first came out, thinking that she could use it to jot down notes using OneNote in classes. In the end she kept on using paper and pen instead.
She did find the tablet functionality useful - To draw with ArtRage.
There are some reasons why she didn't use it to jot notes - The machine was too heavy (4lbs) and large (10" x 10") for her to carry around together with the printed textbooks and other stuff; The performance was not very good (4,200RPM 1.8" HDD); She's not that into technology and felt more comfortable to shift through notebooks......
Few years later, I got an X61 Tablet myself. These days, I mainly use the tablet functionality to jot down notes with OneNote when I read the Bible, and occasionally to write the diary.
The ability of OneNote to recognize my hasty handwriting is surprisingly good. But the machine is still too heavy to hold in hand for long periods.
There are slate-only models which are lighter, but I need a keyboard and have no interest (and money) in buying and switching between 2 machines.
I think one of the blocking issues for my friend to utilize the tablet functionality more was that, e-textbooks were in most cases just not available back then. She would have to carry the book AND the machine all the time.
The above comments are about Tablet PC running full-fledged Windows.
With regard to the newer tablet market out there (e.g. iPad, Xoom, Galaxy Tabs...), most of them use capacitive screens which are not accurate enough for handwritten notes (there's a stylus called Jot from Adonit who seemed to give excellent accruacy, but I have no actual experience myself so cannot vouch for it).
A few of them have an active stylus (which I mentioned here http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1819164#post1819164), but then software support is an issue - They all have their proprietary and incompatible ways to utilize the stylus and store the drawings/notes, which could prove to be problematic down the road.
I can go on for many paragraphs, but not knowing more about what your wife expects, it's difficult to give more useful comments. But feel free to let me know if you have any specific question in mind.
Cheers.
I developed Audiotorium Notes a couple of years ago for my niece who was just starting college. Since then it has been featured by Apple a number of times in their back-to-school apps lineup. Note taking + audio recording + dropbox syncing goodness. http://itunes.com/apps/audiotorium
Livescribe's offerings look quite interesting: oversized pens that record whatever you write or doodle, and optionally, what you are listening while you write, so later you can replay both your writing and the audio recording in your computer, or this last directly from the pen. You can skip to any point in the recording by just clicking whatever you where writing at the time, both in the computer and in paper.
I could not find any tests of the quality of the OCR, for which seems you have to pay a hefty extra to get; and you also have to buy the special dot paper (or print it yourself), but still, seriously impressive, and aimed specifically at school. Here's a demo.
As for books... they have joined the app fade, so I'm sure if you are willing to pay, someone is willing to create a PDF reader for it. ;) I can't imagine why anyone would want to study languages or guitar chords in such a limited device. Play poker *against* your pen, seriously? Still, Hangman and Sudoku seem perfectly appropriate.
I've used my palmtop/phone/pad systems for note taking for quite a while now... starting with a Palm Pilot and the IR folding keyboard that they sold. The worst (but still functional) setup I've used was a Samsung Palm OS flip phone, with a wired keyboard... worked great, but, between no stand for the phone, and the cable in the way, was just a little inconvenient
My current setup is a MS Mobil Bluetooth Keyboard 6000 and a Droid X...
The keyboard is about 3/8 inch thick and about the size of a standard laptop keyboard with a nicely ergonomic layout... When I picked it up it was about $80 with a separate 10-Key pad...
It's not quite as nice as the Palm folding keyboard and T5 since there's nothing like the built in stand that Palm provided... but it's a LOT nicer keyboard for the touch typist!
I'm pretty sure that a similar keyboard with any of the Apple or Android pads would do every bit as well...