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How Much Tech Can Kids Take?

Barence writes "Are today's children facing technology overload, or simply gearing themselves up for life in a digital world? This article examines the effects of exposing children to technology at a young age. Researchers warn of the potential dangers of too much 'screen time,' pointing to alarming (some say scaremongering) research that suggests over-exposure leads to an increased risk of developing autism and Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. Educators, meanwhile, highlight how technology can improve interaction between child and parent, and provide essential life skills, such as enhanced communication and multitasking. Parents are left with conflicting messages — but how much technology is too much technology for children?"

240 comments

  1. Common sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It all comes down to common sense. It has never been said that raising children should be easy.

    1. Re:Common sense by Eponymous+Hero · · Score: 2

      common what? are you high?

      --
      insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
    2. Re:Common sense by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Autism is not a disorder. It is the next stage of human evolution.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    3. Re:Common sense by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 0

      And this is how neurotypicals spell. How sad.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    4. Re:Common sense by Bucky24 · · Score: 2

      Generally people with aspergers are very intelligent, they just have difficulty communicating.
      Aaaaand I'm replying to a troll... Oh well.

      --
      All the world's a CPU, and all the men and women merely AI agents
    5. Re:Common sense by Sparx139 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You make it sound like evolution has some sort of master plan

      --
      Our culture doesn't get smarter, it just finds new ways of being retarded.
    6. Re:Common sense by similar_name · · Score: 5, Funny

      It has never been said that raising children should be easy.

      Raising children should be easy. There I said it.

    7. Re:Common sense by rapidreload · · Score: 1

      It has never been said that raising children should be easy.

      Raising children should be easy. There I said it.

      It has never been said that it has never been said that raising children should be easy.

      --
      To all newcomers - people here are very close-minded and can't handle complaints about Linux. Keep this in mind.
    8. Re:Common sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It has never been said that raising children should be easy.

      Raising children should be easy. There I said it.

      Don't forget,
      Life is fair...

    9. Re:Common sense by tsa · · Score: 1

      Too bad many people don't have common sense.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    10. Re:Common sense by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      If common sense was as common as the phrase suggests, we'd have a lot less common problems.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    11. Re:Common sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    12. Re:Common sense by monkyyy · · Score: 0

      alot of the problem is worrying to much about QUOTE "potential dangers"

      --
      warning pointless sig
    13. Re:Common sense by naich · · Score: 1

      Common sense is very often wrong. I'd rather have some data to work on than just making a vague guess based on an emotional response to a situation I don't know enough about. "Common sense" has been responsible for some very bad decisions, e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Spock#Sudden_infant_death_syndrome

    14. Re:Common sense by schroedingers_hat · · Score: 1

      Don't mind this guy. He's nobody.

    15. Re:Common sense by Defenestrar · · Score: 1

      No, common sense is just over rated. What people generally mean by the phrase is: the uncommon sense to see what is actually there combined with superior cogitation to nearly instantly identify a solution so elegant that it appears simple and understandable when pointed out to those with just average, or common, senses.

      So, if common sense was replaced by the uncommon described above, we'd have a lot of elegant solutions to common problems.

    16. Re:Common sense by Defenestrar · · Score: 1

      Such as the potential danger for relying on a wavy green underline to tell you that a lot is two words rather than listening to the flesh-teachers who repeated that lesson for at least twelve years of publicly provided education?

    17. Re:Common sense by Defenestrar · · Score: 1

      I think this is more tragically a lesson in how a baby-killing statement only around for 12 years ('58 to '70) can persist for at least another 20 years (and more in some minority groups) because researchers tried to combat a logical sounding (but erroneous) statement: "babies on backs choke on vomit" with: "statistics show..." Visions of waking to find your baby dead in his or her own vomit summon a lot more staying power than some research papers on bulk trends among foreign babies. Once they finally woke up and made some serious efforts to tell parents to put the babies on their back or they'd suffocate in a small pocket of CO2, or smother themselves on their blanket, or any number of other (possibly incorrect) but terrifying images of walking in to find a dead child who had been perfectly healthy before taking a nap.

      Some people say we need better education in this country. I agree, scientists need to be better educated on how to communicate what they learn into public knowledge.

    18. Re:Common Sense by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      While not my favorite "branch" of learning theory, constructivism indeed has merit, depending on the situation. As with everything, a proper learning needs assessment will determine if critical thinking (cognitivism) or applying your own knowledge (constructivism) (or something else entirely) is the best model for a given situation.

    19. Re:Common sense by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 0

      More that evolution fulfills a master plan, and that without evolution, without change, our species will be left behind.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    20. Re:Common sense by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 0

      South Park is a neurotypical cartoon written by neurotypicals, I'm not surprised that they attempt to insult their betters while being unable to spell.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    21. Re:Common sense by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      Just because it is common, doesn't mean it is correct.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    22. Re:Common sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Umm, no one anyone really cares about...

    23. Re:Common sense by monkyyy · · Score: 0

      If I didn't care enough to: capitalize the first word in the sentence, use proper punctuation and had a word in all caps; do you really think I care that I used an improper common spelling of a word?

      if u dont know the differences between the words whom and who, u should thank people whom abuse the language into being reasonable so its not a pishtosh nightmare

      --
      warning pointless sig
    24. Re:Common sense by zeroshade · · Score: 1

      "shhh.....my common sense is tingling!!" -- Deadpool

  2. It depends on the kid by dev542 · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    I was writing programs when I was 10 years old.
    This kid actually won an international programming contest when he was 6 years old.

    1. Re:It depends on the kid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Same and I played those violent video games my entire life too... now I'm bald. Must be a correlation.

    2. Re:It depends on the kid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Exactly right. You turned your brain on using a computer; some kids turn their brains off.

    3. Re:It depends on the kid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Definitely depends on the kid and how they react to it. I started using my family's computer when I was just slightly older than 2. From around 4-6, I wasn't in school yet and my parents worked all day so I was at my grandmother's house, and I basically sat on the computer there ALL day. From then on I've been on the computer a hell of a lot. And I think so far I've turned out okay. I'm not crazy, I still understand the physical world, I've had excellent grades, etc. Being constantly on the computer was probably a big benefit-- I'm fairly certain that's how I learned to read in the first place. I did have myself tested recently due to some issues I have been having in college-- no sign of ADHD but I did find out I have Asperger's Syndrome. Probably not related to the computer though, as my brother also has it, far worse, and he definitely had less "screen time" growing up.

    4. Re:It depends on the kid by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      and the best part is after turning on your brain, it can also be used to tun on other parts of the body. it's all good.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W31ue-9u4z4&feature=fvst

    5. Re:It depends on the kid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously, is this even shocking anymore?

      They should just put this on the dollar bill already.

    6. Re:It depends on the kid by dyingtolive · · Score: 1

      You kind of sound like you have problems communicating with people. Perhaps you should get yourself tested for Asperger's.

      --
      Support the EFF and Creative Commons. The war is coming, and they're supporting you...
    7. Re:It depends on the kid by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      It's maybe not. Also, I have no idea whether I have ASD or something else, in my country it's not easy to be a "nutjob" without being completely shunned and recommended to a nuthouse. I can, though, unlike most people, write flawless multithreaded code and debug it in my head, and a few more things that I thought for the longest time that they were quite trivial but had to realize that they're not for most people.

      You do not want to hold a discussion with me, I was informed that it is quite annoying to talk to someone who doesn't modulate his voice when speaking, who speaks fairly fast and who can listen while talking due to the fact that he can blend out the frequency he is speaking at (again, something most people cannot for some odd reason), which causes people to assume I'm interrupting or not listening to them. I am, I just didn't find out for the longest time that they cannot do the same. There also was no visible clue for me that they react that way. I thought it's kinda odd that they stopped talking mid sentence while I formulated my reply, but my assumption was that they just realized that my point was more accurate than theirs. Yes, I don't get facial expressions either. And the fact that I started early to create very elaborate and complicated sentences just to keep myself from talking faster than most people would be able to listen, just to keep my mind occupied with something so it doesn't "race ahead" and skip over some parts of my train of thought didn't help a lot either.

      Do you know what it's like to try to blend in? When you watch people and spend a good deal of your time in front of a mirror trying to match their facial expressions in various circumstances, to "learn" how to communicate with your body because your body invariably conveys the wrong, if any, message? Every kind of face to face communication is stressful to me. Even with people I know and trust. It was quite a bit of work to do the trick with the "eye contact". Ya know? The things that you probably do by default because it's somehow part of your social package. I didn't. Why? Because there is no inherent benefit of looking at someone when talking to him, at least not for me. I do not get any additional information from his body or face, so why bother looking at him? My eyes can do something sensible in the meantime, like reading something. But it makes people uncomfortable if you do not look at them when you talk to them, so I was told to look the person I'm talking to into the eyes. Which I did. To do this as prescribed, you have to unfocus your eyes and look past him so each of your eyes looks at one of the other person's eyes. Else, if you focus on his face, you invariably only look into ONE of his eyes. Which again was unsettling to them because, as I was told, it makes people uncomfortable if you appear to be looking "through" them.

      And that's just ONE aspect of many, many little and big tidbits of "body language" that I had to learn. Learn. Like, say, a foreign language. Now imagine a situation where you are supposed to talk to someone, maybe someone who is important to you, be it your boss, be it someone you like (let's not talk about love, that's an even bigger box made by Pandora), do you have a faint idea what it's like to concentrate on things like his body language, your body language, where to look, how to hold your head, where to put your hands, how to keep your feet and legs in check... at least I can still breath without concentrating on it because at least that is (seems to be... I can't really be entirely sure) normal, all while trying to hold a fairly normal conversation AND make it look like you're NOT acting, like you're behaving normally?

      In a nutshell, it rarely works. Even though I tend to think I got fairly good by now. After over two decades of training, I can almost pass for real. It usually takes people a while to notice that something's off, mostly because from time to time I still slip. Try acting a role 24/7 and you will, too. But I guess aspies would make great spies and infiltra

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    8. Re:It depends on the kid by chromas · · Score: 1

      If you look closely at TV dramas, you'll sometimes catch a character in a close-up situation toggling between the other characters eyes; it looks silly. Focus on the nose bridge and keep the staring down to 50-70% of the conversation. Break it up with quick glances around the face and sometimes look at a random location to appear that you're thinking because studying the face for cues apparently uses up processing power.

    9. Re:It depends on the kid by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Could you send that info back about two decades? As said, by now I have a fairly good plan for most social interactions.

      It's still nothing I find remotely enjoyable. The way I usually describe it would be like this: Imagine you have to talk to an alien with a completely different body language. Now try to suppress yours and follow a set of arbitrary rules that make no sense to you to replace your natural body language with, but you can't just drop it entirely for simplicity's sake, because that would look odd as well. You also have to observe his code for voice pitch and talking speed, how you hold your hands and feet, how you stand or sit, and you're expected to "get" the various idioms and word plays, as well as determine from the tone of his voice (which, again, is beyond your detection threshold) how it was meant.... and so on.

      Little hint: "Do you think I'm an idiot?" is pretty much always a rhetorical question...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  3. We must shield our children by Pastor+Jake · · Score: 4, Funny

    Friends,

    Our children are being exposed to the trash on the internet at younger and younger ages, and it is time to stop. Their bodies grow to unhealthy weights while their moral compasses shrivel. We must restrict their access to technology until they are old enough to handle it. Thankfully, our dual-party system has come together to propose government filtering of the internet in the form of SOPA. This will help parents who are too tech-illiterate to shield their kids from the dangers of the internet.

    Your Brother,
    Jake

    1. Re:We must shield our children by postbigbang · · Score: 0

      You're not my brother, and while there's trash on the Internet, parents do their best. Your defense of SOPA for censorship is incipit.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    2. Re:We must shield our children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whoosh. Whoosh-whoosh! Whoosh-whoosh-whoosh!!!

    3. Re:We must shield our children by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      I had a feeling about that.....

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    4. Re:We must shield our children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See: Poe's Law.

      And thanks for the contributing comment.

    5. Re:We must shield our children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's "insipid" you moron. God help you if you ever pronounce that word the way you think it's written.

    6. Re:We must shield our children by DigMarx · · Score: 1

      No, he means that the previous poster's defense of Sopa are the opening words of a text of a medieval manuscript or early printed book.

    7. Re:We must shield our children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're not my brother, and while there's trash on the Internet, parents do their best. Your defense of SOPA for censorship is incipit.

      I'm pretty sure it's sarcastic...

    8. Re:We must shield our children by couchslug · · Score: 4, Funny

      The children should be learning from Church and sports coaches that their innocence may be preserved from the sinful intarwebs.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    9. Re:We must shield our children by Tooke · · Score: 1

      Is that you, grub?

      --
      Anybody want a peanut?
    10. Re:We must shield our children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well, most parents dont know the evils of the internet. There was a time when one had to travel to get whats on the internet. but on today, the internet brings all the wrong things right into your home. As a technical person i know the computer is good and technology is good too, but it is also a damnable object. you would never know who your child is talking to and interacting with. it does'nt matter which sunday school they go to.

    11. Re:We must shield our children by couchslug · · Score: 1

      Most molesters are friends and relatives who have sustained physical access to the victim....

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
  4. They could take as much tech... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    How much tech can a tech kid take, if a tech kid can take tech?

    Well they would take as much tech as a tech kid takes, if a tech kid can take tech!

    1. Re:They could take as much tech... by ISoldat53 · · Score: 1

      I saw a new book in the book store, "Goodnight iPad" , a spoof on "Goodnight Moon."

    2. Re:They could take as much tech... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can't possibly be as good as "Goodnight Dune".

      http://goodnightdune.com

    3. Re:They could take as much tech... by Defenestrar · · Score: 1

      "Goodnight golden path" is a particularly brilliant replacement for "Goodnight nobody." Although I think there should have been a "Goodnight Duncan Idaho. Goodnight betrayal jumping over Duncan Idaho" or something like that.

    4. Re:They could take as much tech... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well technically you are wrong not to be rude. But a tech kid may become as obsessed as a real loving parent can with their first child or if you become addicted to a drug that is too strong to control your actions and may have the possibility of killing or hurting you and others which then results in making him/she a danger. So, a kid may lose their brain cells by becoming obsessed which happened in the case of my niece. But still a child can only take as much as a suicidal person can... not much at all. Once they reach that limit they know and will try to stop the process but it is too late. They have a 18.63% chance of becoming a overly obsessed lunatic that will do anything for it. So the true answer to all of this nonsense and jokes, which is not at all funny instead very serious, they can't take much. If parents were truly concerned and focused, maybe they would have a grip and better control on all this resulting in the fact that we wouldn't have so many excellent hackers, thieves, parasites, and many other things. If you want any more answers you can catch me on twier but I prefer answers.com. Thank you for this important strongly avoided question that is not directed at the children themselves.
      P.S. please don't try questioning your child or any if you want them to not run away or attempt suicide. They will get confused and sneaky. However, that will open the door to understanding your children better depending on how they are already. We, si triste ! Une telle dommage, and Je suis désolé. (Yes, so sad! Such a shame pity, and I'm sorry.)

  5. As a techie and a parent by NewWorldDan · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm not terribly worried. My kid is 8. She's a gamer. She loves getting email from grandma. And if she spends too much time in front of the screen, she eventually will get up and find a friend to play with. She's had her own PC since she was 3. She also plays softball, soccer, and chess. Generally, she only resorts to the tv or computer when she can't find a friend. She's an only child, so this is somewhat of a concern, but so far, hasn't been a problem.

    1. Re:As a techie and a parent by Fluffeh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      She's had her own PC since she was 3. She also plays softball, soccer, and chess.

      And I think that is the silver bullet right there. It's not so much a case of "technology is baaaaadddd!" but rather all things are good in moderation. This means it is excellent for kids to have some exposure to technology as this is a wonderful way to learn logical thinking and problem solving, but these two things alone do not make a person. Children need social interaction, and this means spending time with parents, siblings or other children and interacting with them. This will give them many other valuable life skills that they need.

      When I was young, I was programming at the age of ten, but at the same time, my parents in their wisdom limited my time in front of the PC (okay, Amiga at the time) and I spent a lot of time with my father, with neighbourhood kids and doing simple things like taking the dog for a walk - or my favorite passtime back then, reading. I am very glad that I had access to technology from that young age, it has gave me the foundation that I have built my career on, but I am also very grateful that I wasn't allowed to utterly sink into my own little PC world. I see a lot of programmers or other IT professionals who are much better at what they do than I would be, but they lack the social skills to be able to truly thrive in the workplace. I think that due to these shortcomings many of these folks are doomed to live out the stereotypes that shows like the IT Crowd love to mock (in a nice way).

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    2. Re:As a techie and a parent by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 2

      Children need social interaction

      That depends on whether they want it or not (and, as far as I know, social interaction isn't absolutely necessary for anyone). "Valuable" is subjective.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    3. Re:As a techie and a parent by smudj · · Score: 1

      that explains the complete lack of respect and manners in the last few generations then

    4. Re:As a techie and a parent by cheeks5965 · · Score: 4, Funny

      And if she spends too much time in front of the screen, she eventually will get up and find a friend to play with.

      That's so sad... I hope that eventually she finds a friend.

      --
      -- Flame me and I will happily flame you back. Bring it!
    5. Re:As a techie and a parent by tlhIngan · · Score: 5, Interesting

      That depends on whether they want it or not (and, as far as I know, social interaction isn't absolutely necessary for anyone). "Valuable" is subjective.

      Being that humans are natually social beings (things like "cabin fever" erupt without it), it is essential.

      Now, the question is whether face to face interaction is necessary to be social, or one can be social through technology (email, social sites, video/voice/text chat) remains to be answered. I'm guessing the answer is "everything in moderation". Some face to face is essential, because there will always be face to face interactions - even if it's just with the mailman for a package, and there may be times one is thrust into needing to interact, so proper behaviour and expectations in such situations is a necessity. (E.g., if you desire to have a family. Or maybe you need to ask for help with some task, or broke down at the side of the street and need to call a tow truck).

      Those who don't seek social interaction are known as recluse, and there's a reason why there's a negative connotation associated with the term.

      Hell, the act of reading and writing posts on /. is a social activity.

    6. Re:As a techie and a parent by vadim_t · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.
        -- Socrates

      Every single generation seems to have been saying the same thing.

    7. Re:As a techie and a parent by hedwards · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're right it depends, do you want the kid to be socially crippled or not. It's getting harder and harder to find jobs that don't require one to play well with others. Hell, even engineers, those bastions of social interaction, are being expected to work on teams for most projects.

      I don't personally like it, but it's reality, if you've kids that are socially inept their earning power and quality of life is going to reflect that.

    8. Re:As a techie and a parent by Bucky24 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I can't cite anything to confirm this but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that children NEED social interaction, regardless if they want it. Though playing any multiplayer game, being a chatroom, or posting in a thread on a forum probably all count as social interaction too. Just because they don't go outside doesn't mean they aren't socializing.

      --
      All the world's a CPU, and all the men and women merely AI agents
    9. Re:As a techie and a parent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, and every generation gets progressively worse

    10. Re:As a techie and a parent by mrbcs · · Score: 2

      that explains the complete lack of respect and manners in the last few generations then

      No, that would be the parents that don't spend enough time or effort to raise their own kids. Some of these parents still use tech as a baby sitter or ship them off to day care.

      My kids (I have 5) get an hour a day on the computer and maybe an hour later in the day in front of a TV.

      --
      I'm not anti-social, I'm anti-idiot.
    11. Re:As a techie and a parent by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      I would say that is absolutely NOT the silver bullet. The problem here is that the people posing the question don't understand what they are even asking. I have yet to meet one single person that has not spent virtually 100% of their time heavily using technology. I know that my child, myself, my parents, grandparents, and so on for many generations have used fire for cooking, woven cloth. The have eaten food that was grown using tech like plows and shovels. They have lived in houses. I intended to continue this trend by continuing to have my child live in a house, with electric lighting, heaters and woven blankets. He will wear woven clothes, and eat food cooked on a stove. In fact, I doubt he will have one single day that he doesn't use tech. He might not even go a single hour without using tech.

      The very premise of the question is just stupid. Of course this post will get replies along the line of "You know what they meant.", "Your being pedantic.", "That's not the tech they mean." Well, I, like the rest of the readers here do know what they mean. They meant "How much tech invented after 1980 can kids take." Of course, when put that way, it is still a stupid question.

    12. Re:As a techie and a parent by monkyyy · · Score: 0

      *better

      --
      warning pointless sig
    13. Re:As a techie and a parent by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      What do you mean by "need"? If they were left completely alone in the world and had all of their needs somehow attended to, would they die?

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    14. Re:As a techie and a parent by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      do you want the kid to be socially crippled or not.

      Even if they're constantly on the computer, that doesn't mean that they will be socially crippled. And even if they are "socially crippled," so what? I guess they won't have the expertise to suck up to people like a normal person can, but I don't really care.

      And it's also possible to have minimal social interaction and still have a good life.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    15. Re:As a techie and a parent by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      Being that humans are natually social beings (things like "cabin fever" erupt without it)

      Is it not possible for a human that despises social activities (all of them) to be born?

      it is essential.

      When you say that it's "essential," I interpret that as meaning that they will die without it.

      so proper behaviour

      And that's another problem, in my opinion. Lots of people seem to expect that you act in a way that they personally like.

      Those who don't seek social interaction are known as recluse, and there's a reason why there's a negative connotation associated with the term.

      Because of differing opinions.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    16. Re:As a techie and a parent by RivenAleem · · Score: 1

      Hell, the act of reading and writing posts on /. is a social activity.

      Fuck, I've been tricked!

    17. Re:As a techie and a parent by RivenAleem · · Score: 2

      Well it's considered good behavior in girls/women, to keep their legs crossed. One must wonder what Socrates' problem with leg-crossing was.

    18. Re:As a techie and a parent by f()rK()_Bomb · · Score: 1

      No, but they won't grow or learn, as has been shown by the various stories of people who kept a child locked in a room and just took care of it. If you don't learn to speak by teen years your fucked for example you can ever learn it, your brain has changed.

      --
      "The space elevator will be built about 50 years after everyone stops laughing." - Arthur C. Clarke ~1980
    19. Re:As a techie and a parent by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 1

      Whilst everyone needs some exercise, fresh air, social interaction ...

      Normal social behaviour is determined by the mass of normal social humans, anyone who differs from this norm is odd, maladjusted, anti-social, sick

      The current thinking is medicate them, psychoanalyse them, they are products of bad parenting, or bad genes ...

      Previously it was they were poor, or black, or Jewish ...

      --
      Puteulanus fenestra mortis
    20. Re:As a techie and a parent by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      No, but they won't grow or learn

      Socially? Maybe not. It's still possible to learn, though.

      Anyway, I don't think that someone spending most of their time on a computer is that 'bad' of a thing, anyway.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    21. Re:As a techie and a parent by f()rK()_Bomb · · Score: 1

      yea I've no issues with computer use, but children do need some social interaction or they will be broken cavemen effectively

      --
      "The space elevator will be built about 50 years after everyone stops laughing." - Arthur C. Clarke ~1980
    22. Re:As a techie and a parent by chooks · · Score: 1

      What's missing: 'Get off my lawn!'

      --
      -- The Genesis project? What's that?
    23. Re:As a techie and a parent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is pretty much my son to a tee. My son plays soccer, board games, and rides bikes, but yeah... he only watches tv or plays on the computer when his friends are busy and can't play.

  6. Kids is too broad by spopepro · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Researchers have known for years that there are certain windows of brain development where learning is best supported, and how other activities aren't so helpful. Language acquisition and music have their sweet spot right around 3-6 years of age. It is likely that the skills that using tech best supports are much later in the development of childrens' minds (like logic, problem solving). It shouldn't be surprising that early childhood subjects only use tech as entertainment, and learn little from it. But children, of age 10 or so, can benefit greatly from having exposure to tech in an interactive manner. This is supported by places like Finland, where they don't teach "hard" subjects or tech in early childhood, but rather stress movement, creative play and social interaction at school, leaving other subjects for when they are most appropriate.

  7. Overloaded or Preparing for Future? Neither! by Zaphod+The+42nd · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Who says kids have to be either overloaded by technology or wisely preparing for the future? How about a third option, like, kids aren't overloaded, they're fine, but they aren't necessarily "preparing", they're just doing what is fun and what is practical. They're KIDS, relax! Just let them play. Luddites need to calm down.

    Does Television cause Autism? Everybody used to be so in arms about letting kids watch too much TV, it'll rot their brains out. Now we grew up and we all watch TV, but ooh, videogames and the internet will rot your brain! Its just society adapting to itself as always, you've got the early-adopters and you've got the naysayers.

    --
    GCS/MU/P d- s:- a-- C++++$ UL++ P+ L++ E+ W++ N o K- w--- O M+ V- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5- X R++ tv+ b++ DI++ D++ G+ e++ h-
    1. Re:Overloaded or Preparing for Future? Neither! by MozeeToby · · Score: 4, Interesting

      My single concern is that there's lots of research that says the best thing kids can do to improve success later on in life is what is known as "undirected play" (a.k.a. recess). I doubt the play has to be physical in nature, but I suspect to see the benefits you want activities that allow kids to decide on their own (or as a group) who to play with, how to play, where to play, and what the rules are. These are not things that today's games are generally good at, ironically and especially true in the 'kids' games genres.

    2. Re:Overloaded or Preparing for Future? Neither! by GrpA · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Actually, being online helped my child *with Autism*...

      The computer provides a safe and effective way for him to interact with other people and stimulate his mind. Having access to a computer at all times since he was about 3 has been a huge help to him and is one of the reason he is now diagnosed as "no longer needing assistance". It has taught him to spell well and helped him with communication skills which was an area in which he was seriously affected.

      The people behind this research seem to have an agenda to push and the article does not examine any links between autism and technology at all - it just says technology causes it...

      I'm surprised the magazine behind the OP printed these views at all. I guess even PC magazines have reached "Tabloid" status in the UK. :(

      GrpA

      --
      Enjoy science fiction? "Turing Evolved" - AI, Mecha, Androids and rail-gun battles. What more could you want?
    3. Re:Overloaded or Preparing for Future? Neither! by Zaphod+The+42nd · · Score: 1

      TFA isn't just about kids playing videogames though, they're talking about all technology in general. The internet, iPads, iPods, iPhones, etc. I'll agree that videogames do have a way to go, but the majority of AAA video games are aimed at the 18-30 male market, not kids. (contrary to popular belief?) Because Nintendo targets children more, they've always been hesitant to include online multiplayer and have been the slowest to adapt. The games industry just needs better multiplayer experiences for children.

      When I was a kid, I went to an experimental school where they let all us kids have laptops, we could even take them home. Mind you, this was the 90s, so that was unbelievable at the time. And I loved it. I remember playing with emails and the command line and feeling like a hacker, and kid pix was mind blowing. Now I'm a software engineer. :) I think my early experience with technology was extremely beneficial, I've always had an aptitude for computers. On the other hand, I can't see any way in which introduction to computing at a very young age held me back. I had an NES when I was really young, and can't imagine it somehow being damaging to development. I played with my friends and it was interesting to get to play with technology and think about the possibilities.

      --
      GCS/MU/P d- s:- a-- C++++$ UL++ P+ L++ E+ W++ N o K- w--- O M+ V- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5- X R++ tv+ b++ DI++ D++ G+ e++ h-
    4. Re:Overloaded or Preparing for Future? Neither! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ummm.... TV HAS rotted everyone's brains. And the Internet IS continuing the rot.

    5. Re:Overloaded or Preparing for Future? Neither! by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 1

      I think "don't worry, it's all OK" is a bigger problem than panic among geeks right now. Television has had an effect on at least two generations of children: look at the difference in the kind of academic rigor that could be expected of children before the television age with those after. All the use of these media technologies during core developmental years is essentially a huge, uncontrolled experiment on children.

      If you look at the people who succeed in our society, it's generally those whose parents kept them away from a lot of this technology in those core years. I'm not a luddite - I like games and I like the internet, but I'm not whistling in the dark, either. Human attention is a complicated system..

    6. Re:Overloaded or Preparing for Future? Neither! by Zaphod+The+42nd · · Score: 1
      There's no way you can attribute generations of cultural change entirely to the technology of the television. That is ludicrous. A WHOLE LOT of other things happened too, ya know.

      If you look at the people who succeed in our society, it's generally those whose parents kept them away from a lot of this technology in those core years.

      [citation required]. I would love to see ANY data on this, whatsoever. Are you talking about people like Bill Gates, Sergey Brin, Larry Page, Steve Wozniak, or.. ANYBODY? They were immensely successful, and hey, they all used computers at a young age! So, I call shenanigans, sir.

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      GCS/MU/P d- s:- a-- C++++$ UL++ P+ L++ E+ W++ N o K- w--- O M+ V- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5- X R++ tv+ b++ DI++ D++ G+ e++ h-
    7. Re:Overloaded or Preparing for Future? Neither! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please, please, PLEASE stop using the term [citation required], Theres no documented scientific analysis that talks about this. Merely research to attempt to figure things out. We'll give you the citation once we have the answers to everything.

      Meanwhile, we know what effected us individually. All that aside, a computer back in the 70's was worlds different than a computer today. You had to think to use them back then, while today you merely remember where the mouse cursor is when that happy feeling happens and try to put the mouse back into that position again.

    8. Re:Overloaded or Preparing for Future? Neither! by llamapater · · Score: 1

      a citation wouldn't hurt that assertion >.>

    9. Re:Overloaded or Preparing for Future? Neither! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, TV seems like harmful programming to children if you ask me. Applies to adults too.. I like my shows but man I can feel the TV trying to program me. I really need to keep up with the Kardashians

    10. Re:Overloaded or Preparing for Future? Neither! by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 1

      Without [citation] it's just some crackpots in a room. If every unpublished/unreviewed study became accepted fact we'd all be running from cold fusion batteries.

      I say, based on a sample size of one, that smartphones (with a set of parentally screened apps) are the best toy I've ever gotten for my child. He can read, he knows all his colors, advanced geometry shapes, all his numbers, and has incredible problem solving skills for a 3 yo (compared to his cousins, who are raised by more luddite parents). In the spirit of fair and balanced: the "cost" is social interaction and his language development. That's ok with me. These are not the most important skills in my own judgement. Psychologists don't agree with me, but that's ok, they're not raising him and taking responsibility for him.

      The goal of raising a child is for him to be functional in the society in which he lives. That society is going to be incredibly technology oriented and even dependent. The value of direct human interaction will continue to decline, as it has for the past century. And that's ok, if we are creating technology to reduce it, it must not have been very desirable.

    11. Re:Overloaded or Preparing for Future? Neither! by russotto · · Score: 1

      I think "don't worry, it's all OK" is a bigger problem than panic among geeks right now. Television has had an effect on at least two generations of children: look at the difference in the kind of academic rigor that could be expected of children before the television age with those after.

      Yeah, kids nowadays, they've never heard of "post hoc ergo propter hoc".

    12. Re:Overloaded or Preparing for Future? Neither! by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      No, they are not talking about technology in general. They are talking about technology invented ~1980 or later. I'm pretty sure they are not talking about houses, woven cloth, or farmed food. Of course, once the question is actually asked they way they mean it, it becomes apparent how absurd the idea is.

    13. Re:Overloaded or Preparing for Future? Neither! by tsa · · Score: 1

      Everybody used to be so in arms about letting kids watch too much TV, it'll rot their brains out.

      What always strikes me as odd is that those discussions are never about what the kids watch on the TV. I just came up with the following interesting experiment: take a pair of twins, and feed one porn from birth on and the other one horror- and other very violent movies. See how they develop in life.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    14. Re:Overloaded or Preparing for Future? Neither! by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 2

      http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/126/2/214.full

      Not that will really satisfy anyone, because it doesn't come to a conclusion you like.

    15. Re:Overloaded or Preparing for Future? Neither! by Zaphod+The+42nd · · Score: 1

      You've just discovered Behaviorism. :) But yes, I agree, I am in the "nurture over nature" camp.
      For a really fun experiment, use clones!

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      GCS/MU/P d- s:- a-- C++++$ UL++ P+ L++ E+ W++ N o K- w--- O M+ V- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5- X R++ tv+ b++ DI++ D++ G+ e++ h-
    16. Re:Overloaded or Preparing for Future? Neither! by tsa · · Score: 1

      Identical twins are clones! :)

      --

      -- Cheers!

  8. can develop autism?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So vaccinated kids that are also exposed to tech have twice the risk of developing autism? Maybe breathing can increase your risk also?

  9. Many Factors by CanHasDIY · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Made up ailments aside (Yes, I believe ADHD, along with a host of other "new diseases," are totally nonexistent and serve only to fatten the wallets of the healthcare industry fatcats by getting humans hooked on their products as early as possible, thus creating entire generations of addicted "customers"), one would have to weigh the individual pro's and con's, and come up with their own determination.

    Personally, I would not let my kids (if I had any) spend their entire existence in front of some sort of screen, allowing corporations to raise my kids for me. Of course, when it comes to education I can see certain advantages over the technology (or lack thereof) used back in my day; kids could be reading the latest history as it is being made, as opposed to textbooks that still refer to Reagan as the sitting President. But again, that goes back to the whole 'corporate control' issue; who decides what goes into a history etextbook? Actual, educated historians, or the salespeople and marketers at Houghton-Mifflin?

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    1. Re:Many Factors by bobjr94 · · Score: 1

      I agree there. I think adhd is what happens to kids who are raised by a tv, they always expect something always flash and exciting to be happening in front of them. When its not they go crazy since they have no attention span. Not a real medical issue, just the outcome of how they were raised and devolved at an early age.

    2. Re:Many Factors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Made up ailments aside (Yes, I believe ADHD, along with a host of other "new diseases," are totally nonexistent and serve only to fatten the wallets of the healthcare industry fatcats by getting humans hooked on their products as early as possible, thus creating entire generations of addicted "customers")

      You obviously have no kids, or been around a child that has true ADHD. yes i do agree that ADHD is heavily over diagnosed, but there are children and adults who have an honest to god uncontrollable disease, ADHD. Get off your political high horse, and holier than thou BS. THe world is only out to screw you if you let it; it's like waking up every morning and saying "I'm going to die today" eventually your gonna be right, screw the 21900 days you were wrong, you were right once. FYI that's .004 percent of the time your right.

    3. Re:Many Factors by Tastecicles · · Score: 1

      back in my days in school, the books referred to Edward Heath as British PM... this was the Eighties. Just a TAD out of date.

      --
      Operation Guillotine is in effect.
    4. Re:Many Factors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I agree there. I think adhd is what happens to kids who are raised by a tv, they always expect something always flash and exciting to be happening in front of them. When its not they go crazy since they have no attention span.

      That's ADD not ADHD, ADHD actually effects the way the brain operates, if the brain wave patterns are not affected it is ADD. http://newideas.net/adhd/neurology

    5. Re:Many Factors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok, lets say that ADHD is a made up diseases.

      Why does giving these kids amphetamines make them calmer?

      Why would other kids freak the fuck out if they were given amphetamines?

      When the cure is that clear cut, it is hard to argue that it is not solving a disease.

    6. Re:Many Factors by CanHasDIY · · Score: 2

      That's ADD not ADHD, ADHD actually effects the way the brain operates, if the brain wave patterns are not affected it is ADD. http://newideas.net/adhd/neurology

      Some advice - when attempting to argue that an ailment is real and not a fabrication of the pharmaceutical lobby, you may want to avoid linking to a website that exists for the sole purpose of peddling pharmaceuticals...

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    7. Re:Many Factors by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Precisely, ADHD is almost certainly overdiagnosed at this point, but it clearly does exist. I'm sure that there are cases where other issues inadvertently get diagnosed as ADHD, but it's hard to explain away the people who genuinely want to be organized and in control of their focus for which nothing but medication helps.

      Same tends to go for other trendy diagnoses as well. Carpal Tunnel Syndrome was heavily diagnosed in the 90s and mysteriously the rate has plummeted in the last decade or so.

    8. Re:Many Factors by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'd really be interested in hearing your "ADHD doesn't exist" argument. Because you've obviously never dealt with anyone with it and obviously don't have it yourself.

      I find the suggestion that computer time 'causes' ADHD laughable because it's a difference in brain chemistry. Amphetamines calm us down. I met a guy that when he was 'up' would take a small hit of meth and sit down and paint. Alcohol makes me hyper. Amphetamines settle me down. Long before there was a computer in our house my mom knew she had to watch what she gave me.

      The main argument against ADHD is "Well duh. I can obviously pay attention to stuff I like." Yes. I can easily app attention to something I like. I can go into a piece of code or a project and come out 12 hours later having not moved, eaten or done anything but what I threw my self into. The problem with the ADHD brain is you can't relax.

      Since this is /., I'll probably catch some trollols "OMG U TUCH GURL!" But this is the most apt example I can come up with: If I'm giving a back massage or concentrating on actually DOING something. I can pay attention no problem. The problem comes when it's my turn to relax. It doesn't happen. Sure the return back massage feels great but, what was that last piece of code I was working on How od you calculate the sum of squares in a graeco-latin experiment design I wonder how I can implement that on my TI-89. I wonder if there is anything like this matlab function in the TI-89. I'll probably have to write my own. TI-89 what a shitty calculator. It came out in 1998 In 1998 my cellphone sucked and my android does so much more Why doesn't TI update their product line. Oh crap getting back massage try to relax, relax, why can't I relax, oh yeah that stats test. Stats is such an easy class what class am I taking next semester. Next semester do I have enough money to cover it. All in the span of a minute or two.

      Cleaning the house doesn't get done because my mind jumps like that. "Oh, this be longs in the garage" Go to the garage. Start to put it away and find in the garage that needs to go somewhere. Eventually bouncing around the entire house doing 'nothing' and putting away small stuff.

      If I'm with my girlfriend and we're talking about something in the car I can be 5-10 subjects away when I break the silence a minute later and say something and get some odd looks. Because she assumes we're still talking about the one thing we were talking about or something very similar. Hell in the time it's taken me to finally write this post I've opened 20 Fark tabs, read those topics. Started responses in those threads. Opened a few XBMC Forum threads. Put those in another window. Checked my bank statements and still have 2 dozen tabs open. Put the Chili in the fridge. Found something in the fridge I wanted to reheat. Put it in the microwave. Got distracted waiting for it to finish and started laundry.

      When I'm on my meds it's a noticeable difference. I'll start in one corner of a room and knock it out like it's nothing. I'll write posts in one response. I can sit down and do ONE thing to completion or near completion. And I didn't have a computer in the house until High School. I made it through college all on my own. I finally went to the family doctor at 27 and got on Welbutrin. It's not an amphetamine and they're not really sure why it works for ADHD, but I can tell you it's made a big difference in my life at home and at work.

      So fuck you and everyone else who thinks its made up. Why not go around the old folks home and yell at the alzheimers patients about their 'made up disease'

    9. Re:Many Factors by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 1

      Gah. If ever there's something that deserves +5, Informative, it is this. The only thing worse than the people who think some 5 year old kid running around during recess has ADHD are the people who think that everyone is exactly like they are, and ADHD is just a made-up "disease".

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    10. Re:Many Factors by Xaria · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I support the above post.

      I have a six year old son with ADHD, and sadly I had no choice but to put him on medication. Do I like it? No, of course not. Was it the right choice? I definitely believe so. He was failing PREP. Yes ... the very first year of school, and he was failing because he couldn't focus. He was also highly disruptive in class and ended up spending several hours per week in the school office. However, all the teachers love him because he's a very sweet little boy (their words, not mine). A lot of people believe that ADHD medication (such as Ritalin) is a sedative - it's not, it's a stimulant. It's equivalent to a couple of cups of strong coffee. The problem is that people with ADHD have had their brains develop such that they cannot focus on certain inputs to the exclusion of others as most people can. Try standing in the middle of a room at a party or a night club, and talk to the person with you. Most people can manage it. Someone with ADHD and no medication finds it incredibly difficult to remain focused on the conversation, because they can also hear the other conversations in the room, and the music, and the person clinking a glass together in the neighbouring kitchen. All at once, and without the inherent ability to exclude unwanted inputs. The purpose of Ritalin is to speed up the brain so that the ADHD person can get all those inputs and actually process them.

      It's actually genetic. My brother has ADD too. He's a successful masseuse now because it's a single task, in a quiet room, that can keep his attention. Don't ever ask him to hold a ladder for you because he'll wander off to look at a butterfly by the time you get to the top (yep, this actually happened when he was 21).

      Autism seems to be related, though they don't know how. I have an autistic child too, and that's a whole other ballgame. But just because you are lucky enough to have a "typical" brain which can't even CONCEIVE of these different mental pathways, doesn't mean that these conditions don't exist. They can't conceive of what it's like for you either. All they know is that people are incredibly intolerant of what is - to them - perfectly normal.

      Having said all that, I have to be very careful of their technology input, especially since autistic minds can struggle to differentiate from what they see on TV and what is actually real. They probably watch more TV and play more computer games than they should, but to be honest that's better for them than a mother having a nervous breakdown. I am strict about what they are allowed to watch though. Most children's TV is completely out. Ben 10? Forget it. Documentaries? Go for your life. They love things like Dirty Jobs and Mythbusters. My six year old probably beat you playing Starcraft 2 last night. ;) It encourages keeping track of various things and strategising.

    11. Re:Many Factors by Bucky24 · · Score: 2

      When I was about 2 years old my parents TV broke. They simply decided not to buy a new one. I didn't get a computer until I was 15 (limited time on my parent's computer until then). I have ADHD. I wasn't exposed to screens or flashing products until I was in my early teens. Until then I was running around outside. I can't change your opinion and I'm not bothering to try, but hopefully someone else will read this and not be confused by your bs. ADHD, ADD, and other similar disorders are very real. I do agree they are overdiagnosed but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

      --
      All the world's a CPU, and all the men and women merely AI agents
    12. Re:Many Factors by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      I'd really be interested in hearing your "ADHD doesn't exist" argument. Because you've obviously never dealt with anyone with it and obviously don't have it yourself.

      I could, but would you be able to pay attention long enough to read it? Lolz!

      On a serious note, I guess I should have clarified; I believe ADD and ADHD are the exact same thing, and an actual condition (that, incidentally, used to be diagnosed as 'hyperactivity' back in the 70's). Both are overdiagnosed, and far too often used by what amounts to lazy worthless parents wanting to control their children with drugs instead of parenting, for no reason other than the fact it's far easier to dope a kid up and put him in front of a screen than to be an actual parent.

      Still with me?

      I find the suggestion that computer time 'causes' ADHD laughable because it's a difference in brain chemistry.

      OK, well, I never said anything about that, so...

      Amphetamines calm us down. I met a guy that when he was 'up' would take a small hit of meth and sit down and paint. Alcohol makes me hyper. Amphetamines settle me down.

      Ask any person who spends a lot of time around drugs or drug users and they will tell you that all drugs affect all people differently. I also know people who can do amazing art work while tweaking, and I myself get pretty worked up when I've had a shot or two.
      Guess what "condition" none of us have been diagnosed with? I should mention, I've been go to my doctor regularly since I was a kid, so it's not like they haven't had the chance to diagnose it.

      The main argument against ADHD is "Well duh. I can obviously pay attention to stuff I like." Yes. I can easily app attention to something I like. I can go into a piece of code or a project and come out 12 hours later having not moved, eaten or done anything but what I threw my self into. The problem with the ADHD brain is you can't relax... Cleaning the house doesn't get done because my mind jumps like that. "Oh, this be longs in the garage" Go to the garage. Start to put it away and find in the garage that needs to go somewhere. Eventually bouncing around the entire house doing 'nothing' and putting away small stuff.... If I'm with my girlfriend and we're talking about something in the car I can be 5-10 subjects away when I break the silence a minute later and say something and get some odd looks...

      This reminded me of something my doctor told me when I asked him if it was possible I might have ADD. You see, all the activities you detailed describe my mental process to a T. Hell, I have to watch myself to make sure I don't accidentally put the milk in the cabinet and the cereal in the fridge when I make breakfast. But, I digress; when I asked my doctor that, he asked me one question:

      Professionally Trained, Well-Respected Physician:Can you focus, on ANYTHING, for more than a few seconds?

      Me: Well, yea...

      PTWRP:Guess what? You don't have ADD.

      Really, I should have known that from the start, as my uncle and both his sons suffer from hyperactivity, AKA ADD. Oh, did I forget to mention that I actually know a hell of a lot about that particular condition, learned from growing up with people who actually suffer from it? I guarantee you none of them would be able to focus long enough to turn on a computer, let alone bang out a lengthy, narcissistic rant at a complete stranger. I personally wouldn't have wasted the time either, if not for the next part.

      So fuck you and everyone else who thinks its made up. Why not go around the old folks home and yell at the alzheimers patients about their 'made up disease'

      Fuck you right back, you doped addicted hypochondriac. My grandmother died from Alzheimers, which is a horrific disease that literally steals your mind from you, and it's very likely I will die from it as well.

      Feel good about yourself now?

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    13. Re:Many Factors by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      ... you doped addicted hypochondriac

      OK, that was a bit harsh; I don't know you from Adam, so it is entirely possible you are indeed hyperactive.

      The 'fuck you' stands, however.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    14. Re:Many Factors by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      Fuck you right back, you doped addicted hypochondriac. My grandmother died from Alzheimers, which is a horrific disease that literally steals your mind from you, and it's very likely I will die from it as well.

      I see. So since you have first hand experience with it, it's a "real" disease. But I'm still making stuff up. Well I think your grandma was making shit up. She probably didn't want to deal with a worthless grandson. She just pretended to relive the better years because to her it was better than having to put up with you. She probably pulled her own plug to have to get out of pretending any more.

      Because that's what I every time you claim I'm making up what I live with daily.

      Go look up Wellbutrin (Bupropion) I wouldn't exactly your hard core 'get high' like you do from any amphetamines. I grew up with out drugs. My parents refused to medicate. Hell yes it's "over diagnosed". Doesn't mean it doesn't exist. For financial reasons I also didn't get glasses until I was 23. I just always assumed that that's how people saw. Putting on a pair of glasses everything snapped into sharp focus. Welbutrin (after a bit of build up since it's ~ssri) does the same thing.

    15. Re:Many Factors by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Precisely, ADHD is almost certainly overdiagnosed at this point, but it clearly does exist. (...) Same tends to go for other trendy diagnoses as well. Carpal Tunnel Syndrome was heavily diagnosed in the 90s and mysteriously the rate has plummeted in the last decade or so.

      Most of these trends are because we're redefining the boundaries of what's normal and what's an illness. Maybe some kids have ADHD but most unruly kids don't. You see this in adults too, I remember reading one essay from a frustrated GP who said there were rather constantly people asking him for sick leave or medications to deal with what he called the trauma of everyday life. On the one side they don't really get to call the patient on it, the patient is the one with first hand knowledge and they get flak from patients feeling they're not being taken seriously. On the other hand, they wouldn't prescribe morphine if you came in with a paper cut no matter how much agony you claimed to be in.

      He was of course not denying that there are people that really do need help and they get it. But that it's normal that it's not all flowers and sunshine at home or at work or with friends and family and that dealing with that is mostly just life. They're asking him to sign papers saying they're in a so bad condition - mostly mental - that they're unfit to work. If your wife and kid got run over by a drunk driver yesterday, that may be true. But not because you and your gf had an argument or any other mundane little thing. What happened if he said no? The patients moved to a different doctor and got what they wanted there. That's true whether it's a private or public doctor, you still get "shopping" until those who want a pushover find a pushover.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    16. Re:Many Factors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the idea of disease or ailment, is quickly becoming deprecated. What was normal yesterday is now not. The line between becoming superhuman, and curing our defects will soon be blurred to the point of uselessness.

      In the end, what matters is not what is considered normal, or not. What matters is: will these pills make me feel better, or worse?

    17. Re:Many Factors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This is the best description I have ever seen about how someone with ADD thinks. I read this to my wife and we laughed so hard. We go through this every day; both of us have the same problem. We can overcome it without medication, but one of our friends can barely function, regularly has problems at work and probably could be helped with meds. As the OP said, often over-diagnosed, but if you can't adapt to it, you're screwed.

    18. Re:Many Factors by Wordplay · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Speaking as an adult who wasn't diagnosed with or treated for "nonexistent" ADHD until 39, in no small part because his parents bought into the absolutely bullshit line of crap you're spouting when his teachers pointed it out at age six:

      Fuck you.

      Your other points may be valid, but your straw man is so deeply offensive that I can't possibly absorb them.

    19. Re:Many Factors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously... you sound completely normal. Is this not the way people in general operate? I'm fairly certain I don't have ADHD, but my mind works nearly identical to what you've described.

      I leave notes for myself all the time, or things to trigger my memory due to the fact that I get distracted. XKCD has a comic called tab explosion, which is something we all 'suffer' from on slashdot, more than likely - hence the reason it's part of the comic, it's something people like us associate with. My conversations with people I'm always trailing down a side thought, and eventually have to stop and ask the person what I was talking about originally, or if there was a distraction in the middle of what I was saying, I won't remember at all what was being discussed for a long while (until/unless I left a visual cue somewhere to remind me of it.) I'm actually doing some audits, while checking my own pay, typing in here, interrupted to print off something for an email, and more all separate tasks that I keep physically organized to comparmentalize and keep myself ordered. Often I find myself walking myself back through steps if something pulls me away to find where I was at again.

      To me it's just a part of handling life, maybe I do have ADHD, but it seems a bit unbelievable to me. I don't necessarily think it doesn't exist, as one of the responding posts talks about someone walking away distracted by a butterfly while holding a ladder - that sounds more like a real serious issue. But I know plenty of people who put food in the microwave and forget about it, or start laundry and forget it. There's plenty of jokes about leaving the oven on, partially as an excuse to get away, but also because it actually happens quite often. It's part of being human. It's equally problematic if people can only focus on one thing at a time; moderation/balance in everything.

      But then, like I said, I don't really have evidence, just anecdotes. But you sound completely normal to me, which contributes to the "doesn't really exist/is overprescribed' category in my mind. Maybe I should be on meds too, but it really isn't interfering with my life enough to be cause for concern. I could be wrong about this too, but when people say it doesn't exist, I think they are more implying it doesn't exist on the epidemic levels that it's portrayed as, all the time.

    20. Re:Many Factors by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      So everyone thinks like that during blowjobs/sex? Here I just blamed the ADHD.
      It's not about being distracted during routine stuff. It's about being distracted during EVERYTHING.

    21. Re:Many Factors by Adayse · · Score: 1

      What you are missing is that our children are worth more than we were. The equation is simple enough - longer lives, less risk and fewer births makes each of our children very precious. Healthcare industry fatcats making shit up? Would you be talking about dentists fixing buckteeth? ADHD is real enough, but before we put up with it or beat the kid or put him in a special class for specially fucked up kids but those are not options for an only child today.

    22. Re:Many Factors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While ADHD is obviously a valid problem for some people, it is over diagnosed, and medication is over proscribed which leads to people believing the entire thing is a myth. Some kids are just wild, doesn't mean others have a valid problem, but only one should get the meds.

    23. Re:Many Factors by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 1

      XKCD has a comic called tab explosion

      tab explosion
      Assume 10000 people read it and would like to refresh their memories (low estimate). Assume it costs 10 times as much time to make a link than it costs to only search for "site:xkcd.com tab explosion". Is your time 1000 as valuable as someone else's?

      --
      Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
    24. Re:Many Factors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As someone with ADD, not ADHD, I can tell you that appearing normal and being normal are two entirely different things.

      I wasn't diagnosed until I was 18, because for the entirety of my childhood my lack of hyperactivity led my parents and educators to think that my inability to complete important tasks and tendency to spend hours sitting doing nothing while my mind focused quite well on some imagined scenario was laziness, rather than a chemical imbalance in my brain. Because I was such a smart girl, so precocious and quiet and well-behaved, not anything like the wildly rambunctious kids everybody knew had a problem.

      Even after I was diagnosed, it wasn't until I nearly failed out of college that I finally relented and agreed to be put on medication. Because I'd been raised with the belief that I was just lazy, that I just needed to "get my shit together" and everything would be fine. I appeared to be perfectly normal, after all, and others saw me as a well-adjusted, bright young woman who, for whatever reason, had trouble finishing work on time and frequently missed classes due to inexplicably losing track of hours at a time. I forgot important dates, I made promises and failed to come through on them, I absolutely SUCKED at keeping track of money.

      And then I started taking Adderoll and all of a sudden things just clicked into place. All of a sudden I didn't have to use all my energy just trying to get past a hurdle that simply doesn't exist for most people, and I could actually apply myself to the things that mattered. All of a sudden, all those people who'd told me my entire life that I was simply lazy, or just needed to pull myself together and focus, that my problems were no different from anybody else's, were wrong.

      But hey, I sound like a completely normal person while I'm telling you all of this, which probably means my condition doesn't really exist, right?

      To bring this back around and onto topic, I'd also like to add that the internet was the only place I actually felt remotely normal while I was a kid, and what ultimately helped convince me I could be normal in the real world as well. So maybe someone should try looking into the beneficial effects of time spent on a computer instead? Could be rather interesting to see what sort of results they find.

    25. Re:Many Factors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obviously it's real, but I look at it less of a disease/disability vs. some brains working differently vs. others. I'm not saying that to make any negative statement about people who are afflicted or what they choose for treatment. More that this is not a simple flu or cancer that will harm or kill the victim. More that brain medicine is not well understood or intuitive.

      I'm not saying it's wrong or bad for the affected to want to be "normal" and clearly treatment is helpful and likely the right thing for many. However altering this activity (presumably using drugs) could easily have unintended consequences.

    26. Re:Many Factors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you saying it is normal not to be distracted (BJs or otherwise)? We all struggle with distraction, it is part of the human condition, but effort is required to deal with it. In any activity, say, a new level in a game, or learning a new sport, or starting on a journey of BJs, or making breakfast, an effort is required to train thoughts. Otherwise you will die in that level of the game next time you play it, or you will never improve in that sport, or you will always be thinking of baseball stats and a million other different things during a BJ, or you will pour OJ on your cereal. After a lot of training and mental effort, focus comes with the activity.

      This normal, non-distracted ideal portrayed by society and culture simply never existed. People are slowly coming to the realization that there isn't some kind of epidemic. It is just being used to sell more pills.

      Don't get me wrong, there is a real disease, and some people with certain brain chemistry will need treatment in order to function. If you are an adult, you make your own choices about your health. I just find it really messed up that many human beings -children- do not even get the chance to try and train up the mental pathways necessary to cutting off thoughts as they are forming, thus crippling them mentally for life.

      What I'm saying is, everyone you see as normal had to learn how to not be distracted. If you can focus on anything for more than a few seconds (non-drugged), then you have the capacity to train and improve this ability. And it sure isn't easy for some people. Where does the line get drawn between inability and willpower?

    27. Re:Many Factors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, with your history, why in the world did you decide to have children?

  10. Answer by Verdatum · · Score: 1

    Kids can take ALL the tech!!

  11. Kids these days... by SJHillman · · Score: 2, Funny

    Kids will take as much tech as they can hide in their baggy pants without being caught

    1. Re:Kids these days... by swanzilla · · Score: 2

      Now that they all have skinny jeans and giant Beiber hairdos, look for a downturn in this metric.

    2. Re:Kids these days... by Nationless · · Score: 1

      So fashion = decline in music sales?

      And all this time they thought it was piracy. Imagine their faces when they figure that one out!

  12. The effects of externalizing cognition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ADHD: The new normal.

    What we're seeing are the effects of something that no generation in the history of mankind has ever had to deal with: children who can legitimately depend on other devices to do things that heretofore were the exclusive domain of the well-trained brain. No generation has ever grown up with this level of technology integrated into their daily lives.

    1. Re:The effects of externalizing cognition by hedwards · · Score: 1

      I disagree, the human brain is still a lot faster than these computerized gadgets are. Compare calculating the trajectory of a flying object in your head versus on a computer and you'll see what I mean. Our brains do it almost instantaneously in cases where we are likely to need to do it and yet it takes a computer a lot longer to get you the same information.

      Now, if you work for NASA or the DoD and are calculating fast moving objects over long distances then technology has the edge, but for most people it's both over kill and slower.

    2. Re:The effects of externalizing cognition by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      Things like keeping memory? Like a diary? Or things like helping on calculation? Like math combined with that diary? Keeping track of time? Like a stone calendar?

      Came-on, we are the species that makes tools (to a huge dregree - a few others make tools to a limited degree). We always lived with tools, always used them to help what we were doing. We are not humans without "tech".

    3. Re:The effects of externalizing cognition by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Exactly. The question isn't "How much tech can kids take?". It is "How much tech invented after 1980 can kids take?". It's just that if they had phrased it that way, people would have realized that it was a stupid question from the beginning instead of defining "tech" as any technology they believe was put on earth by some devil to corrupt us.

  13. Re:Do yourself a favor... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Don't follow the link, it's another goatse.

  14. Internet grows on trees by bobjr94 · · Score: 2

    We live out in the country and were stuck with satellite internet, we recently got custody of our 2 nieces (6 and 9 then) and they kept asking about online gaming and watching streaming netflix . They just could not understand why that dosent work at our house or what a 350mb daily download limit pr ping times of 1300 mean. They have had broadband their whole life and think the internet is just everywhere and always has been.

  15. TV is the worst.. by bmajik · · Score: 4, Interesting

    On the occasions where my 4 year old is somewhere that he watches TV, the way he looks and acts while doing it just makes my heart sink.

    He doesn't move. He is completely fixated on the screen. He needs me to make several attempts before his attention is diverted from the screen. He can look away breifly to talk to you but is trying to glance back at the screen.

    We have no TV service and no occasion for him to watch TV. We do have a small handful of movies we let him watch occasionally.

    One thing that he enjoys and that we let him do (usually one or two days a week) is watch the "Mighty Machines" movies, some of which you can stream off netflix. These are at least modestly interesting, as he is very interested in machines of all types.

    Another thing we do together is watch youtube videos of things hes interested in. Whether its trains or rockets or consturction equipment or car racing -- theres always something your child is interested in and usually a youtube video of it. But that is a two-person activity -- you and your child can ask questions about what you are watching, pause, replay, etc.

    The best thing you can do for your kids is read to them constantly, in an interactive way From an early age. Ask them what things are in books they know. Ask them more questions about the world their books create.

    Listen to the questions they ask. Never tell them to shut up when they are asking questions.

    When you say "I don't know", make sure you control your tone. Your tone should say "I don't know the answer to that, but now that you mention it, I'm curious too!" instead of "your question isn't important enough to answer"

    My 4 year old is an excellent reader, quite good at adding, counting by intervals, subtraction, etc. He likes to play "Angry Birds" on my wifes phone, although we limit that quite heavily. He knows how to login to my desktop machine, start up mspaint, start up wordpad, etc. He has some "Jumpstart" edu-games that he can play by himself.

    We limit how much computer time he gets --- even when it is educational software.

    I don't think anything (Besides normal TV) is intrinsically bad for kids in reasonable amounts. What parents should NOT do is use technology to babysit. What parents and kids benefit from is a variety of different experiences, all in reasonable duration and frequency.

    --
    My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
    1. Re:TV is the worst.. by LeanSystems · · Score: 1

      My kid watches Dora, Diego, Bubble Guppies, Sesame Street and other shows of the like. They all do a few things that makes me question your assertion that TV is passive:

      1. They ask questions such as "do you see the banana?" and he points and says "Banana!".
      2. They speak in both English and Spanish and teach it to the kids. he can speak more Spanish than I can (he is 2.5)
      3. They teach letters, numbers, and basic math. He can count quite well (by 1, 2, and 10)
      4. They teach logic and problem solving.

      I have no problem with him watching these shows... I watched much less stimulating stuff... although GI Joe did teach me that knowing was half the battle.

      All that said, I can easily see that parents use TV and internet WAY to much. It comes down to individuals and there is no right or wrong.

    2. Re:TV is the worst.. by bmajik · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I watched a lot of TV when I was a kid. I mean, it didn't kill me or anything like that. But if I think about it, it was mostly about passing time.

      The first few years of your child's life are the most critical for determining what kind of person they will be. Spend them wisely.

      --
      My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
    3. Re:TV is the worst.. by antifoidulus · · Score: 4, Funny

      Man you had me until you mentioned MS Paint, exposing a kid to Microsoft garbage at such a young age is akin to child abuse. Stop the insanity!

    4. Re:TV is the worst.. by bmajik · · Score: 1

      Your internet stalking powers are weak, grasshopper.

      --
      My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
    5. Re:TV is the worst.. by LateArthurDent · · Score: 1

      On the occasions where my 4 year old is somewhere that he watches TV, the way he looks and acts while doing it just makes my heart sink. He doesn't move. He is completely fixated on the screen. He needs me to make several attempts before his attention is diverted from the screen. He can look away breifly to talk to you but is trying to glance back at the screen.

      I've heard that argument before, and I don't get it. So he's paying attention to the TV. Why is that bad? What worries you? I'll have that same level of focus in whatever it is that I'm truly engaged in. If you show up while I'm in my recliner reading a book that I'm particularly into, you might have to stand in front of me and call my name once or twice before my brain recognizes that you're there, trying to get my attention. Same thing if I'm soldering something, I tend to really focus when I'm doing that, because if I don't, I end up having to remove the solder and do it again.

      Obviously if the only thing a kid does is watch TV, that's a problem, but I don't see how that is related to the level of attention he pays to it when he is watching. Seems like you have the right idea, and you limit the amount of all sorts of activities he takes part in, to make sure not one single thing dominates. You also make sure to spend a lot of time with him. That's what's important. In fact, you even said it:

      I don't think anything (Besides normal TV) is intrinsically bad for kids in reasonable amounts.

      What exactly are you singling out about TV? Like everything else in your list, I feel that as long as it's a reasonable amount, it's fine.

      What parents should NOT do is use technology to babysit. What parents and kids benefit from is a variety of different experiences, all in reasonable duration and frequency.

      Yep, that's the key. I think your kid is really lucky to have parents who understand that. I don't have anything to criticize about what you said, but I am legitimately curious about the completely anti-TV stance.

    6. Re:TV is the worst.. by roc97007 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I understand what you're saying, and have observed that in my kid. Our solution (your mileage may vary) is to watch nothing in real time. Everything is prerecorded in some fashion. This helps all of us, but especially the kid, to make the TV our slave rather than being a slave to the tv. So at a very early age, when I need her attention, kid will instinctively reach out for the stop button so she can pay attention to me without missing any of the dialog. There is no such thing as "wait until the show's over" at our house. We leave when it's time to leave, and the kid picks up where she left off when we get back. (Right now she's going through all of Criminal Minds.)

      As to whether this is healthier, I have no idea. On my way into work I listen to the news in real time, and I find myself reaching for a non-existent rewind button if I missed something interesting. (Like emergency routes out of the city...) But for us, TV is something we watch when we want to watch it, and for as long as we want to watch it, and no more than that. If any of us has to take a potty break, or get a refill, or make a comment longer than five seconds, the show gets paused. Since we don't watch commercials, the amount of time in front of the tv is still less than were it live, even with pauses.

      What this does do is really mess up network planning. Tactics like Sandwitching an unpopular show between two winners to drum up viewership doesn't work if you only watch what you want to watch and nothing else. The concept of "prime time" and peak weekdays and dualing timeslots and even networks lose their meaning. I don't watch much TV anyway, but after programming the appliance, I couldn't even identify the network for most of the shows. (That's what IMDB is for.) Although I do follow directors and cast because they might do something else that's interesting.

      I strongly suspect that the conventional network TV industry is basically running on inertia right now. I think the "tv tray" mentality, where you sit back in your barcolounger and watch whatever is on until it's time to go to bed, will die with the boomer generation. (Of which I am one, but I'm a geek, and we're usually on the leading edge of things technological.) I heard recently that some shows are going directly to Netflix now, without ever having been on network TV, and I suspect that something like it is the wave of the future.

      In other words, technology finds a way, if you let it.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    7. Re:TV is the worst.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your problem may be related to the fact that you do not have TV. Your child is starved of it while all the other children are used to it. It's good for you, because you already know it is bad and can stay off it. But for your child it is a source of entertainment denied to him, so obviously the few times he gets a chance he'll be glued to the screen.

    8. Re:TV is the worst.. by LeanSystems · · Score: 1

      On my way into work I listen to the news in real time, and I find myself reaching for a non-existent rewind button if I missed something interesting. (Like emergency routes out of the city...)

      Okay, I don't look for the rewind button for emergency routes... more for "wait what was said on NPR while I avoided this idiot". I wonder if they will invent TiVo for the radio... Call it RaVo or something.

    9. Re:TV is the worst.. by Wordplay · · Score: 1

      He doesn't move. He is completely fixated on the screen. He needs me to make several attempts before his attention is diverted from the screen. He can look away breifly to talk to you but is trying to glance back at the screen.

      We have no TV service and no occasion for him to watch TV. We do have a small handful of movies we let him watch occasionally.

      These two things could be related. I realize you're not a strict "no watching anything" household, but if TV is rare enough to him it will be supremely interesting when it is there.

      Not speaking as a parent here, so take with as much salt as one needs, but I suspect giving a child something else to be interested in is just as important as enforcing moderation in things like TV, games, whatnot. Sounds like you do that. I also commend the attention you're plainly giving your child.

      A lot of parents seem to just yank the TV because it's "evil", throw the kid a book, then wonder why it doesn't work out. I think anything can be made into a constructive backdrop for an interactive activity. Even books can make a lousy passive babysitter, especially for kids who for whatever reason don't end up loving reading.

    10. Re:TV is the worst.. by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      I don't think I've ever in my life wondered what was said on NPR.

      I remember there used to be a product like that (tivo for car radio) but don't remember where I saw it.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    11. Re:TV is the worst.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Maybe your kid is just amazed to see TV because s/he never sees it. My child runs around and plays while the TV is on because the TV isn't some magical device he only sees once in a blue moon.

    12. Re:TV is the worst.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please don't insult MS Paint; that's the best software Microsoft ever made.

    13. Re:TV is the worst.. by Bucky24 · · Score: 1

      A tape recorder would probably work, though you'd have to find someplace to put it close to the speaker.

      --
      All the world's a CPU, and all the men and women merely AI agents
    14. Re:TV is the worst.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you don't have any TV service, no wonder he's fascinated by it when he sees it elsewhere.

      My 1-year-old watches about 20 minutes of TV a day, from what I consider to be a reasonable distance (at least 10x the width of the screen), and he can take it or leave it. (I'm grateful to Channel 4 for broadcasting kids' programmes in the morning with no commercials, which makes me a lot more willing to let him watch 'Thomas & Friends'.)

      I get antsy when he's in the room where someone is watching an adult programme, not because of the content but because of the ads. The change in sound quality when the ads come on makes him look up at once, and often he makes a beeline for the screen and tries to touch it, at which point there's nothing for it but to switch off the TV until he loses interest.

    15. Re:TV is the worst.. by rapidreload · · Score: 1

      Beg your pardon? Where can I find an easy to use paint program in a typical Linux distro? GIMP doesn't count and any alternatives I've tried like Pinta are rather crash-happy.

      I'm not a huge fan of MS Paint due to its limitations (Paint.NET's my poison), but at least they HAVE something easy and capable compared to what the Linux community has been able to provide... or haven't in this case.

      Ahem. /rant

      --
      To all newcomers - people here are very close-minded and can't handle complaints about Linux. Keep this in mind.
    16. Re:TV is the worst.. by Osgeld · · Score: 0

      gee deprive a kid of something that they enjoy and wonder why you cant distract them when they are allowed this treat. My nieces whom I pretty much raised cause mommy and daddy were too busy fucking off had the exact opposite problem, so much TV that they did not give a shit about it and when you wanted them to sit down and shut the hell up they couldn't.

  16. How Much Tech Can Kids Take? by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

    Are today's children facing technology overload, or simply gearing themselves up for life in a digital world? This article examines the effects of exposing children to technology at a young age. Researchers warn of the potential dangers of too much 'screen time,' pointing to alarming (some say scaremongering) research that suggests over-exposure leads to an increased risk of developing autism and Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. Educators, meanwhile, highlight how technology can improve interaction between child and parent, and provide essential life skills, such as enhanced communication and multitasking. Parents are left with conflicting messages — but how much technology is too much technology for children?

    Depends on the kind of technology. Are we are talking educational videos and assembly kits under adult supervision? Are we talking strapping kids to a chair and letting them watch Baby Einstein for 6 hours at a time? Are we comparing "Keeping Up with the Trashdashians" exposure to technology?

    Assuming we are talking technology with a pedagogical purpose, children can take as much as you teach them they can handle. Raise your expectations in a positive, but disciplined way, and that's what you will get out of children. Expect them to be dumb, and they'll be dumb. Expect them to be trash, and they'll be trash.

    As a parent, I can tell you this: It is as simple as that.

  17. My case by NoobixCube · · Score: 1

    I'm a living example of both the rewards of getting kids into tech early, and the dangers of using the computer a a baby sitter. I learned to read and do basic maths at the age of 3, from Reader Rabbit, Math Rabbit, Treasure Math Storm, and others; this had me years ahead of my peers when I started school. I developed a strong taste for it, though, to the exclusion of sports. Computer games were just more fun and interesting to me than ball games. Whether or not technology stopped me from being the greatest runner in the world, I don't know, but I do know that even as a toddler, I'm told, I didn't run around a lot. I preferred to sit alone and build with blocks, or do puzzles and stuff. I've always, as long as I can remember, been a scrawny, pasty nerd.

    --
    Admit it. You post strawman arguments as AC so you get modded Insightful for refuting them, rather than Troll
  18. Ritalin: The New Robitussin by Tastecicles · · Score: 0

    It slices! It dices! It's the biggest selling prescription drug in history! It has ZERO documented therapeutic effects! So what does it do, exactly?

    It turns aspartame-riddled kids into box zombies - yes, that's right. All it does is mitigate the effects of the biggest selling food additive in history.

    What's the connection between Ritalin and aspartame?

    Both patented by the SAME COMPANY.

    --
    Operation Guillotine is in effect.
    1. Re:Ritalin: The New Robitussin by H0p313ss · · Score: 1

      Did you skip your meds again?

      --
      XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
    2. Re:Ritalin: The New Robitussin by Tastecicles · · Score: 1

      to what "meds" do you refer?

      Are you trollling for trolling sake? Or are you a Monsanto apologist?

      --
      Operation Guillotine is in effect.
    3. Re:Ritalin: The New Robitussin by Greyfox · · Score: 1

      Citation needed

      --

      I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    4. Re:Ritalin: The New Robitussin by Bucky24 · · Score: 1

      That's because it's not supposed to be therapeutic. It's supposed to re-balance brain chemicals.

      --
      All the world's a CPU, and all the men and women merely AI agents
  19. 10 PRINT "Shock!"; 20 GOATSE 10 by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

    This kid [evenweb.com] actually won an international programming contest when he was 6 years old.

    Don't follow the link, it's another goatse.

    Oh my God! You mean... the Goatse man won a programming contest when he was six years old?!

    I'm sure this says something about programming, just not what. Not sure that I want to know either :-O

    --
    "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
    1. Re:10 PRINT "Shock!"; 20 GOATSE 10 by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'm sure this says something about programming, just not what...

      The Goatse guy was the inspiration for "Big-O" notation. Truly a pioneer in the field.

    2. Re:10 PRINT "Shock!"; 20 GOATSE 10 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gives a whole new meaning to "Big O" notation, doesn't it?

    3. Re:10 PRINT "Shock!"; 20 GOATSE 10 by Defenestrar · · Score: 1

      And that's what happens if kids get technology too early :)

  20. There is never TOO MUCH +4, Helpful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ritalin!!!

    Yours In Ulanbator,
    K. Trout

  21. The message isn't conflicting by Zephyn · · Score: 1

    The first point is that overexposure can be harmful, which is true for just about anything.

    The second point is that it can improve interaction/life/communication skills when used in an educational environment. That can just as easily be at home as in school, depending on how involved the parent is with the child.

    The question isn't how much tech the child is exposed to, it's how the tech is used.

    1. Re:The message isn't conflicting by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      The right amount of water is necessary for life. Too much can be harmful. This is hardly old news, but sometimes we need reminding.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    2. Re:The message isn't conflicting by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      Geesh. Was supposed to be "this is hardly news"

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  22. [[citation needed]] by cheeks5965 · · Score: 1
    From tfs:

    pointing to alarming (some say scaremongering) research

    [[citation needed]]

    --
    -- Flame me and I will happily flame you back. Bring it!
  23. Computers can lower test scores by supercrisp · · Score: 3, Informative

    Research done at Duke and in Romania shows that computers or access to broadband can lower study scores. It's not so shocking, really, that games and media can supplant study, reading, and thinking. So I think the question shouldn't be how much (quantity) but of what sort and how (quality). The Duke study was done by . Vigdor and Ladd; there's a gloss of it in a New York Times article called "Computers at Home, Hope vs. Reality." I can attest to the fact that students on college campuses today read books, newspapers, and magazines far less than did students in the 80s. Instead they're generally using social media, texting, or listening to a portable music player. You almost never see students carry around battered paperbacks anymore; in the past the ratty old Stephen King or some similar lite reading was a common time burner between classes. Though it does seem that devices like Nooks and Kindles are becoming a little more common on campus.

    1. Re:Computers can lower test scores by Ltap · · Score: 1

      Remember that it is less obvious now who is literate and who isn't. Someone might use a laptop to spend a day on Facebook or they might have 100,000 ebooks on it ... or both.

      --
      Yet Another Tech Blog
      (but so much more, including game and movie reviews)
      http://yanteb.peasantoid.org
    2. Re:Computers can lower test scores by Wordplay · · Score: 1

      This. I never touch paper media anymore. I do read Kindle books; study Wikipedia as well as a number of other primary and secondary sources; read, listen to, and watch the news from several different regions and countries; stay more current in my hobbies than magazines ever let me; and even subscribe to a few traditionally dead-tree magazines in electronic format because I like their editorial style. I'm considerably more broad than I ever was with paper.

      As far as lowering study scores, sure. Studying more often than not--or at least the easily testable type--involves a crapload of rote memorization. You know what's not particularly important anymore now that you can look just about anything up on your phone? Rote memorization.

      OTOH, I bet these kids are a hell of a lot better than I ever will be at knowing how to find relevant information and benefit from easy access to the work of others. And for the benefit of others, they'll contribute what they want to and are able to as well. In fact, they'll be able to contribute that much more that's novel because they're not wasting their time and brainspace memorizing other people's knowledge for lack of a good way to have it at hand.

    3. Re:Computers can lower test scores by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I learned English at the computer as all games and documentation was in the language. at that time. That earned me lower grades, because the teacher couldnt keep up with my vocabulary. I guess it is a bad idea in general to outsmart the teacher. She could have avoided some humilitation by reading the short stories before they were discussed in class (and look up the words she didn't know).

  24. What matters is "how", not "how much" by macwhizkid · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've always thought that "screen time" is a ridiculous metric for kids. As though watching the Disney Channel, writing C++, playing Halo, and Skyping with friends/family are all the same thing. And it only gets worse as LCD panels become cheaper (and thus more prevalent in our lives). Are we going to count sitting in the family minivan playing with the GPS on the way to school as screen time? How about reading textbooks on the family iPad?

    What really matters, of course, is the engagement of the parents to set up, support, and reinforce the environment of their children. I have no doubt that many parents simply hand their child their iPhone to distract them when they're busy with other things. Too many parents don't burden themselves with getting involved in the choices their children make, and then usually regret it later or try to fix it in artificial ways (see: "screen time"). At the same time, there are parents who teach or enable their kids to do great things with technology, like film and edit home movies, or write simple iOS/Android apps, or build simple circuits.

    The parents matter. More specifically their time, effort, and creativity matters. Friends, other family, choice of school, and other available resources matter. The "amount of screen time" doesn't matter. Stop worrying about it, and start worrying about the choices that do.

    1. Re:What matters is "how", not "how much" by adolphism · · Score: 1

      Amen, as long as those choices include proactive measures. It being an adult and saying "no" to a game system because you know your kids (or you know yourself) and you know it won't be a healthy addition to the family. My children read books primarily due to the lack of digital options. Sometime boredom is a good thing?

  25. Computer is a better babysitter than the idiot box by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    My little sister has been going though um "issues" one result being that one of her kids stays with me quite a lot of the time. He is around 6.

    The kid was quite a handful, could never sit down, always making noise, running around the house, getting hurt, and pissing people off. With the TV running of course.

    Well, put together a crap little computer for him in the living room, now when he is over he is quiet and is apparently capable of concentrating on a single task for quite some time. I have him running on a linux mint setup, hopefully he picks something useful up. I will be so proud of him the day he breaks something software related on that rig.

  26. Real World vs. Simulation of Real World by adolphism · · Score: 1

    As a parent and techie, I'm passionate about this issue. I firmly believe (and AMA research is starting to support) that "screen time" is a poor substitute for the real world in any form. Young children's experiences are much about discovering their world through the senses including advance concepts such as cause/effect and object permanence. The rules governing these are universal in the real world, but limited in the simulations. It's a cheap substitute that limits discovery and expression.

    I have no doubt that my children will learn about technology and end up as good or better with it than I am. They're drawn to it like a moth to light. They'll get it by default. It's the outdoors, playing with others, learning about social norms, etc. that are the lessons we as parents need to concern ourselves with. The tech will come. One needs a solid foundation in the "real world" before being able to see the limitations (and also the lack of limitations in some aspects) of the virtual.

  27. Can someone explain... by h4x0t · · Score: 1

    ... how fiddling with tech can induce a chemical imbalance, producing disorders such as ADHD or autism?

    I posit that this notion is flimflam.

    1. Re:Can someone explain... by Jeng · · Score: 1

      Because it works towards peoples distrust of modern society.

      That which they don't understand They Really do not understand so they mistrust it.

      Kinda like the Freemasons, no one knows what the fuck they do, and they won't say, so you can blame them for everything under the sun.

      --
      Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
    2. Re:Can someone explain... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... how fiddling with tech can induce a chemical imbalance, producing disorders such as ADHD or autism?

      I posit that this notion is flimflam.

      It doesn't 'cause chemical imbalance'. The theory is that too much screen time early on has a negative effect on the brain development of a small child. If this happens when the child's brain is forming neural pathways related to visual process / language skills / etc, then it can lead to underdeveloped brain function in these areas (ie. autism, etc).

      In reality, there are probably a number of different inter-related (and unrelated) causes for these conditions, including genetic, stress, (lack of) attentive parenting, environmental, etc. And these or a combination of these make any given child more or less susceptible to factors that may not affect another child.

      'Chemical imbalance' is a term that the drug companies like to push, because it implies that there is a drug that can fix it. For many of these 'disorders', the drugs only seek to mask the symptoms. In some cases this can be very useful, but acting like this is the best and/or only way to go is heading down the wrong path.

    3. Re:Can someone explain... by Wordplay · · Score: 1

      Yeah, speaking for ADHD, I don't think it's widely considered to be a chemical imbalance. The prefrontal cortex is underactive, compared to the average person, and increasing dopamine levels will counter that to an extent. I'm not sure that's the same thing as saying the dopamine levels were low to begin with.

      As parent says here, there are a number of different causes that are thought to contribute to the underactivity. To what was said there, I'll add head trauma and just being an extreme outlier, as well as pointing out that a lot of ADHD-like conditions can be seen secondarily to other psychological conditions.

      I don't find it completely beyond the pale that something like excessive TV watching can do this. As simple example: if a child can't see through one eye for a long enough time, the brain'll never develop the pathways necessary to process that eye. If there are similar pathways that excessive TV (or whatever) short-circuits, they may underdevelop too. Mind you, I want to see a hell of a lot more evidence before I believe that, but I don't believe it to be impossible.

      Keep in mind "under" is a relative here, though; we're talking about the body adapting to the conditions present during maturity, which is a pretty normal (and on the whole healthy) biological process. If childhood conditions extend into adulthood, it may well be perfect development. All too often, our gauge of whether a kid is normal is "possesses the same skill set as me," but that's just not going to be accurate--especially in times of technological leap where the environment changes quickly.

  28. Common Sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Critical thinking and applying your own knowledge is underrated in education of any age group. By Knowledge I mean a justified belief, this isn't just limited to empirical or scientific study. But only apply knowledge that you yourself understand or talk to a reputable authority that you know personally (doctor, professor, etc) for advice & info.
    If there's some strange headline like "Peanutbutter may cause lower IQ score in kids under 10" DO NOT apply this to your life unless you have read the study yourself and understand it. Listening and applying alarming misinformation that headlines produce for entertainment only leads to yourself being paranoid and your child being confused.
    Now as far as what you should do: Talk to your children. Do you see that your child is being deprived of certain social skills? Do they understand social concepts or general concepts appropriate to their age group and apply them successfully in a group of their peers or family? If you don't see any problems then don't bother with changing something. Use your common sense and don't depend on misinformation to educate your children.

  29. The mongers by kikito · · Score: 1

    They are scared.

  30. I'd say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...much more than adults can.

  31. in hindsight... by Eponymous+Hero · · Score: 0

    in about 100 years from now when humans in general predominantly exhibit autistic or ADHD behavior (assumed from TFA) they'll look back at us now and decry us all for being so attached to our present social norms, and how silly we were to resist the change. like 10-20 years ago when your parents/grandparents told you email was bad because it killed off letter writing. yet we still have thank you cards and such. wutevs.

    --
    insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
  32. The children today.. by dohnut · · Score: 2

    ..are living in some sort of F'ing fantasy land!

    What I wouldn't have given to have my parents let an Atari 2600, an NES, or an Apple II babysit me. No, instead I had go outside and do chores, do dishes, clean my room, clean everyone else's room, do my homework, finish eating my food, monitor the reactor core, etc. Seriously, In the summer I had to go to bed when it was still light outside (and no, I didn't live in Alaska). Do kids even have bedtimes anymore?

    Oh to be left alone by my legal guardians to sit and veg in front of an electronic device... We are chastising these parents?! These parents are heroes!

    --
    Stupider like a fox! - H.S.
    1. Re:The children today.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where is the challenge today? Where is the reward? It was really great to get the stuff you apparently never managed to get from your parents on your own. To see the eyes of your parents when you brought home your PC they thought you couldnt afford. Going to bed and standing up later to play games or read the damned comic books. Turning the reactor of before draining the pool.

      Kids to day have it too easy and take things as given which leads to problems when they need to start earning their own money.

    2. Re:The children today.. by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      Hmm, my own anecdotal evidence completely smashes your crusty, get-off-my-lawn theory.

      See, I was raised by working class parents with no technology skills. They bought me a PET, Vic-20, Atari 2600, Commodore 64 (in that order?) because they wanted me to have a better life than being a secretary or a mechanic. They didn't know why it seemed like a good idea at the time, other than they had good instincts. I now make a 6-figure salary that is only remotely related to technology (I design training for a giant tech company), but my interest in technology at age 12 in 1982 is what got me here. My parents' decision to feed my interests as opposed to spending all my free time earning minimum wage to pay for gas, or slaving around the house because the grownups "work all day" is the vehicle that got me here.

      They also didn't let me have a job while I was in high school. Kids should be learning, not working menial burger jobs. And if learning means spending more time playing M.U.L.E. or Ultima with friends, then so be it. How is that social construct any different/better/worse than kids meeting at the park and playing baseball? (And before you say it, I went to college on a cross-country scholarship)

      I didn't have a bed time because I was tired from being at school all day, being in band, orchestra, sports, then coming home and playing Ultima with friends and doing menial chores. Therefore, wait for it...I went to bed at a decent hour because I was tired and everyone needs sleep. Only the most socially maladjusted 20-somethings I work with think it's sustainable to work from 10-7, then stay up until 6 am playing WoW, then sleep for 3 hours before returning to 8 hours of menial coding.

      Kids only need "bedtime" when it becomes a problem. My 12 year-old stays up later than me, but has yet to miss the bus to school (even though I leave before he is awake). I suppose if he starts "sleeping in", a bedtime will be imposed. Why crush a kid who is acting responsibly already? "Well that's how my daddy durn raised me"!

    3. Re:The children today.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I remember standing and loitering at the Sears playing with the 2600 wishing and hoping that we could get one to bring home. Ah, the good old days of wishing... I also remember playing Star Raiders on the Atari 800 (or 600?) computer at Burdines in Florida.

  33. Eye troubles by smellsofbikes · · Score: 4, Interesting

    My wife is a vision therapist. She is seeing lots of kids come in who have trouble reading, playing sports that involve catching, and similar issues. When you're young your brain is really malleable but what it sees is what it expects as normal. When kids' eyes are constantly focussing on small high-resolution screens just a short distance from their faces, their brains consider that normal and adapt to that, meaning the kids have trouble, later on, with easily getting distant images to fuse. It's not like their eyes are crossed, but they do have to work harder, in some cases a lot harder, to maintain distance vision. She gets lots of kids who are considered slow learners or who "just hate reading" and after 12 weeks or so of visual training, suddenly they can catch balls easily, are reading at their grade level, and are enjoying reading.

    --
    Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
    1. Re:Eye troubles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How does reading fit into your hypothesis? Is that done at a distance too?

    2. Re:Eye troubles by smellsofbikes · · Score: 1

      Seems to, but kids don't hold books as close to their eyes as cellphones and tablets. Kids that read all the time appear to have somewhat more problems with convergence excess -- too easy to cross the eyes, not easy enough to focus on distant objects -- than kids who don't read much. However, it's a parallax issue and the closer you get the worse the problem is. Again, this isn't the case with every kid, by a long shot, but it does tend to exacerbate existing issues. (And again I'm not an expert: I'm just listening to what my wife and her coworkers talk about when they're out in public: "oh, look at that kid: we'll be seeing HIM in our office, no doubt!")

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
  34. Not the tech, but it's use. by TheEmpyrean · · Score: 2

    There is some argument about the overuse of technology, but the bigger issue is how and when it's used. Now, plopping the kid in front of the TV.. generally bad, even if it's so called educational programming. Video games... I'd say so so, as long as the socialization is there. Now, things that make the kid learn more and become engaged in their information and such, not so bad. It's all in the use. Using it as a substitute for something is not going to end well. using it as a supplement for most things, probably ok.

    I was programming at a young age, I was also racing dirt bikes and helping dad fix his cars.

    1. Re:Not the tech, but it's use. by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Would you say the same about reading? Most people would agree with you when it is the TV or the Computer, but would suddenly change their tune when it is a book.

  35. It depend on the home environment by InterGuru · · Score: 2

    If a kid grows up with concerned active parents who spend signifcant time interacting with her, the screen time will probably not hurt too much. If TV and tech are used as a constant babysitter, then the kid will probably have stunted intellect and social skills.

    Russel Bank's latest novel "Lost Memory of Skin" (11 reviews here) concerns a guy who grew up with no emotional support, fell in internet porn, and found himself in real trouble.

  36. Re:As a software engineer and a parent by einhverfr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As a techie and a parent with ADD I am a little more concerned. There are strong reasons to think that TV time is linked to ADD, and I don't see why computers would be different.

    Indeed I have been using redshift on my Linux laptop now for a bit over a week and have found my own ADD greatly helped by the software's color shifting, suggesting to me that the color balance (too much blue in particular) may be partly to blame. We already know this affects other parts of the human brain and can affect sleep. However my experience is that at least for those of us with genetic predispositions for ADD (my dad and my grandfather both have or had it), the color balance may in fact be a factor.

    The fact is, the pace of change is very high and it takes years or decades to notice the effect. I think we are generally better holding off and exposing kids later, and also drastically reducing the amount of screen time (whether computer or tv) that kids get.

    --

    LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
  37. I swear by rapidreload · · Score: 2

    I swear these articles are sometimes just an excuse for people on Slashdot to write posts on how awesome their son or daughter is, how they aren't affected by tech and how amazing their kid is compared to everyone else.

    --
    To all newcomers - people here are very close-minded and can't handle complaints about Linux. Keep this in mind.
    1. Re:I swear by Lectoid · · Score: 1

      No doubt. My 3 year old son took a break from programing a calculus game for a new phone invented to read some of the comments and agrees with you. Can't stand that shit.

      --
      Is it just me, or do you hate it when people say "Is it just me..."?
  38. Entertainment isn't "exposure to tech" by Kohath · · Score: 1

    Watching the movie for the 20th time isn't "exposing kids to tech". If you interact with your kids a maximum amount of the time, that's probably better than listening to experts. Experts don't know your kids. Kids are individuals. Observe them and do what works.

    1. Re:Entertainment isn't "exposure to tech" by Belial6 · · Score: 2

      True. The sad thing I see is parents who get an educational video, and then play the thing over and over and over for their kid. The video might even be an awesome video that has massive educational value for their kid, but after the third viewing the kid has gotten everything educational out of it that they are going to, and the parent just keeps running it over and over hundreds of times. They pat themselves on the back, and tell themselves how they are "educating" their child. Then you get the exact opposite from other parents, where they will deny their kids the first three showings because some study shows that kids who have only been exposed to 90 minutes of stimulus repeated endlessly for the fist 3 years of their life are stunted.

  39. Setting aside kids for a moment ... by Krishnoid · · Score: 2

    Is it clearly understood how much tech adults can take? It seems to me that the unstated assumption is that adults have a well-tuned self-regulation mechanism for their intake, but is that borne out by the evidence?

    1. Re:Setting aside kids for a moment ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Judging by the "forever alone" meme and the existence of WoW, 4chan, and Reddit, I'm going to go with "no."

    2. Re:Setting aside kids for a moment ... by Bucky24 · · Score: 2

      The tolerance point of an adult with a fully developed brain (ie adults above the age of 27) is higher since their mind is not being molded by the technology. A child's mind is extremely pliable, and affected more strongly. But yes, there is a point with everywhere where they have too much tech in their lives. Unless you're a robot I suppose.

      --
      All the world's a CPU, and all the men and women merely AI agents
    3. Re:Setting aside kids for a moment ... by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Funny, I have not spent a single hour of my life without using tech. Nope, not one single hour. Of course, in true neo-Luddite fashion, what almost everyone on this thread is talking about is "How much technology invented or populorized after 1980 (+TV) can kids take?". It just sounds dumb when put that way though.

  40. Be tough, persistant, and FUN! by datavirtue · · Score: 2

    Kids are swamped with video games so much that ey think all devices are used for games. I have started greatly limiting my son's exposure knowing he gets free reign when going to other kid's houses and while visiting the local YMCA. It has been an obsession with him since he first started watching me play WOW at age four. I shortly thereafter quit WOW cold turkey and have been trying to instill in him that computers are used for more than video games. I have even had him do some programming with BASIC and Game Maker but he is still more interested in playing than building things. I constantly stress the value of creating things to him and I can only hope it is making an impact. He is only eight now, so it is probably some time before he is able to run with these concepts of programming. I'm interested myself in building games (been programming business software for years) as I need a fun creative outlet aside from my current projects. I have introduced a single board computer and various small electronics/soldering kits which have been a hit with the kids. My daughter who is about four and my son's video game addicted/unregulated cousin (age 11) also took to the electronics kits as well. My wife thought it was boring and protested giving the kits as birthday presents, but she was dead wrong (doing a little victory dance). Now we have robot kits on the horizon where I will once again introduce programming in assembler and other languages. You can get electronics kits by a company named Elenco; their products are sold on Amazon and at other retailers. It is hands-on and gets them away from media consumption. http://www.amazon.com/Elenco-AmeriKit-Learn-Solder-Kit/dp/B0009Z3JJA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1321919567&sr=8-1

    --
    I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    1. Re:Be tough, persistant, and FUN! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps Minecraft can be an acceptable balance of game and construction?

    2. Re:Be tough, persistant, and FUN! by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      You know, you could use your son's immature world view against him. Show him how you can code stuff for WoW. See, that's the whole point with computers in education that educators are missing. It's not just a flashy game machine. Show them HOW to use the computer to GET SOMETHING DONE, not just HOW to use a computer. Kids will figure that out in their own time. They just need a reason to want to, like maybe learning to code a WoW add-on or something that is relevant to their experience.

  41. The Singularity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When the time of The Singularity arrives, we will aleady have made a choice to be physically augmented by technology, or dominated by intelligent, superior machines and the programs that rum them.
    jtkno6
    Rocky Mount, NC USA

    1. Re:The Singularity by koan · · Score: 1

      I would take the machines even though that may result in a child like state for humans, human nature isn't going to change if we are "augmented" instead it will become amplified.

      --
      "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  42. Where have I seen this before? by koan · · Score: 1
    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  43. Re:helped my child *with Autism* by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 2

    I'll second this.

    Autism is about someone hyper-focusing on some subset of the world "out of proportion to its value". Notice the sly difference between employable expert and that! If you hyper-focus on tax depreciation theory, you are Employable. If you hyper-focus on the Misfits of Science show and know which actors sadly passed early afterward, you are labeled Autistic.

    Wikipedia might just be the single greatest Anti-Autism device, because it tends to "go up levels" as well as answer the questions. So 2 hours on IMDB will answer questions that could become a months-long obsession before, so "once that curiosity itch is scratched", the person can get back to the "bigger picture" that led them there.

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  44. The biggest problem facing kids today... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Overparenting.

    And it comes from endless articles like this linking to random 'studies' scaring parents into policing activities that are supposed to be fun and, in today's society, that are practically mandatory for social growth and communication.

  45. Learning by Bengie · · Score: 1

    My nephew is in a house hold without much tech not to mention he's an outside kind of kid, but when he comes over and uses our computers, he needs to know how to spell to search youtube and stuff.

  46. Technology is the first choice by Ohio+Calvinist · · Score: 1

    I don't know what the appropriate amount, or kind of technology is appropriate. As an anecdote, I can say that using a calculator helped me focus on learning the concepts of calculus by reducing the risk of arithmetic error that might have reduced the amount of time spent "doing" the distinctly calculus parts. That said, my arithmetic skills have degraded. I am much slower and quickly reach for the tool. I think there is always a cost and benefit.

    My objection is that too many schools see technological resources as "essential" to engage children, citing some developmental bent towards children wanting to consume learning from multimedia resources over traditional ones (text, lecture, etc.) I think this is a false assumption, and even if it were true, teaching Johnny to pay attention, to learn audibly, to use text-based resources (e.g. an index in a book, or guide-words in a dictionary) is as important as whatever skill the electronic resource is supposed to teach. Kids don't need iPads to learn to read, and don't need animated characters to follow directions. This assertion takes a lot of cheaper, valuable tools off the table through technology bias.

    Further, my objection is that electronic resources may shift learning into easily tested means versus open-ended critical thinking. For example, many teachers like "clickers" which are glorified keypads or keyboards that students respond to questions on. The major benefit is simplified grading. These kinds of tools entice teachers, increase district costs, and divert students from having open discussion, debate, experimentation, and other critical thinking activities that aren't easy to implement in software.

    --
    Forgive my spelling from time to time. I'm often posting during short breaks.
    1. Re:Technology is the first choice by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      citing some developmental bent towards children wanting to consume learning from multimedia resources over traditional ones (text, lecture, etc.)

      This "bent" is actually valid for adults as well.

  47. From my experience... by Lumpy · · Score: 2

    5 year olds can only handle about 6 pounds of tech, any more and they start dropping it.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:From my experience... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Self-limiting problem then?

  48. Research linking computer use to autism: causality by theedgeofoblivious · · Score: 1

    The way that information is presented can lead readers to interpret different things about any given piece of information.

    For example, if I say "It was found that children who spent a lot of time using computers were more likely to be diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder," what might that make a reader think?

    If I were to instead say "It was found that children who were diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder seemed to use computers more than average," would that make readers think something else?

    One of those statements might sound like an important breakthrough, but the other sounds fairly obvious. It seems more likely that autistic children prefer using computers, and not that using computers actually caused the children to become autistic.

  49. My cousin is just like that. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    My cousin is 7. She too has had a computer of her own since she was 3 (a used pink iMac at the time). She too is a young gamer. She has access to an Xbox 360 and a Wii, and has her own DS and Alienware M11x laptop. I take particular pride in that latter device, having come up with the idea and played an instrumental role in convincing the grandparents we share, other cousins, my parents, my own siblings, etc. to contribute. She plays Sims 2 and Sims 3 as could be expected for a girl her age, but she also plays Fable and Portal. In fact at the top of her Christmas list is a plush companion cube. (I kid you not.)

    But she also plays soccer and piano. She easily spends just as much playing with plush puppies or dolls with her younger sister as she does playing video games. She does her homework without fail. She has good manners, is in excellent health, etc. She is simultaneously the most ambitious and intelligent child I've ever come across. I expect her to go far, and from what I've seen of Portal, I expect video games to actually help her.

    That said, sometimes I must admit I envy her. Her parents also play and she has access to a fiber optic connection. Growing up my family's first computer was a 386 running Windows 3.1 when I was 11. No internet access - that came with a 2400 baud modem on a second family computer years later, clunky CRT with VGA resolution, etc. We had a Nintendo and later a Super Nintendo. My parents' childless coworkers had funny ideas about how much interaction children should have with video games, and sadly, my parents would listen to them. My siblings and I would often have to do crazy things to get a chance at playing a good video game. This doesn't mean we didn't get the opportunity. No! I've got wonderful memories of Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy III and Secret of Evermore. Rather, as an adult in my 20s, I can't play any game for more than a few minutes without worrying about overdoing it and I feel this is a lasting effect of that environment. I tend to game vicariously these days.

    It's a very different story for the rest of my immediate family. My father has his Xbox 360 and my mother plays that evil Facebook game (Farmville). Now that was something, having my mother of all people leave a voicemail a year or two back asking me to play Farmville. She was always the one most against video games! (I did not play.)

  50. False Correlation by Zaldarr · · Score: 3, Interesting

    A part of this I think stems from the ideas expressed in the above comments about successive generations of parents being all up in arms about 'the new rock and roll', but I think it might just be that children are just getting stupider and people are latching onto technology as an excuse. I'm a child of the early 90's, (yes, a whippersnapper) and the amount of stupidity displayed by my generation never ceases to amaze and depress. I graduated from high school this year, and I can tell you as a statistical fact that half of the year failed mathematics and English miserably - and in the medium level classes too, not just the hard ones. As I have passed through high school I have assessed it's methods of teaching (because I want to learn dammit) and I judged it to be far below par. The culture amongst the students is of mutual congratulatory failure and the vast majority of the teachers are simply riding it out until they hit retirement. Instead of latching onto technology as a scapegoat, it would be far better to tear down the existing system and restructure education from the ground up.

    --
    I write professional videogame reviews! http://www.digitallydownloaded.net/
    1. Re:False Correlation by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      I am a child of the 70's/80's, and I can tell you that in my generation, stupidity runs rampant as well. I saw, and still see it in my parent's generation as well. The problem of people being dumb is not new.

      You are correct that the public education system is broken to the core. It won't get fixed though. There are just too many people sucking off of that teat. There are too many people employed in the education industry, and our economy is based on the idea of "free" daycare.

    2. Re:False Correlation by ediron2 · · Score: 1

      Came here to also say idiocy was rampant in 70's, and my grandma had a dim view of her peer group in the 1910-30 time frame. Then there's that “Five percent of the people think; ten percent of the people think they think; and the other eighty-five percent would rather die than think.” -- a quote widely attributed to Edison. So, he saw it. I've heard it said about Japanese teenagers, so it's international. And great literature is littered with writers mocking contemporary idiocy (Moliere, Swift, Ovid), so I'm thinking it's pretty steadily the nature of humanity.

      I've also noticed that we all tend to gloss over our own denser moments, or those of friends, more kindly than that of strangers. To bastardize a running joke from Yes Prime Minister (Brit-com from about 1980) , "Oh, it's one of those irregular verbs: I find it uninteresting, you hadn't noticed, and they're just idiots".

      Disagree with adjacent comment on whether public education is broken to the core. First, the word 'public' implies that private schools are better, which is laughable at best. Second, the better term is 'deeply flawed'. A broken mechanism doesn't work AT ALL.

  51. Some children can self regulate. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I think that was NewWorldDan's point at the end, that [technology] hasn't been a problem for his daughter. Perhaps you couldn't self regulate as a child and it's good that your parents' intervened, but that isn't true for everyone.

    I must wonder why those other programmers are the way they are and if it really is because of what you assume? For some, sure. They've got their computer and they don't need anything else. For others, perhaps they had no other choice? It does happen. Perhaps their parents pushed them? That happens, in everything and in the era of the dot-com boom I'd imagine it happened to a great many.

    I'm only in my 20s and I've seen plenty of social people become social hermits for a myriad of reasons; and I've seen quiet ones bloom in their 20s, 30s, 40s, etc. Then there is the old work life versus home life paradigm. I for one, at school and work am about precision whereas at home, "the remote will turn up".

    I grew up in the middle of nowhere - eight miles from anything. I had five things I could do: (1) take a machete into the forest and hack at things (and yet I'm terrified when I see a child walk too fast with scissors, imagine), (2) get on my bicycle and get lost for the day (yet I want to put a GPS device on every child I know), (3) annoy the siblings, (4) build stuff with Lego and (5) fiddle around with the computer. I would do all five, often, but because people are so acutely aware of their technological shortcomings, it was what knowledge I had about computers that would be noticed and shared by strangers.

    When I met my fifth grade teacher, she took me aside and asked me that if I was ever mad with her that I please come talk to her and not do anything to her computer. I never had done anything malicious to a computer and still haven't. Yet from then on throughout K-12 it seemed every instructor knew this about me before I met them. It was silly. Still, I come across as quiet and if you had just met me and if someone told you their impressions of my computer knowledge, you might label me as one of those IT people. You wouldn't be the first to assume such a thing and truth be told, I used to work for a software company, but not as a programmer. I was a bookkeeper - who would goof off on the weekends. Nevertheless at first glance, I would seem to fit the stereotype. I'm quiet with a laptop near and a few virtual machines running.

    That is, if you met me early in the day or on a day I haven't worked or in a college classroom. You see at the end of my usual day I have chalk, glitter, dirt, etc. all over my clothing. I don't seem very antisocial with glitter, believe me! I've had a day of laughter and smiles. Of craft and Lego projects. Of going to the park or lake, or out for ice cream. I'm a nanny and I've been one for more than five years. Funnier still, what I shall do at the end of my studies won't focus on computers or children. I have and will always encourage less reliance on anecdotal experience and bias observations.

    I hope my perspective is of use to you.

  52. How much tech can kids take? by glutenenvy · · Score: 2

    Depends on how much room they have in their pockets, backpacks and fanny packs.

  53. Strange. I was always taught it was the content. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You suggest that it's the actual screen and color balance to blame for ADD? I figured it was the quick content that always went for the cheap laugh and didn't require the viewer to focus. Video games vary widely. Some require immeasurable focus.

  54. Bad food, Sugar and good computers. by fredr1k · · Score: 2

    Sounds like utterly bullcrap to me. The main problem with ADHD is that kids are feed with sugar, sugar, sugar and well more sugar. On top of that all other additives and factory made food that some people put on the table. I mean it's not killing the kids giving them pure water instead of a coke?

    Anyway correctly used and not used as cheap baby-sitter, computers are great for kids. The best example is learning kids to read and spell. If you cut away the pen/paper and not force the kids to try to write the letters first but instead let them type the words, sounding etc directly on the computer, they break the reading code much faster. thats because the kids dont need to booth learn to write the letters and sound them at the same time. First understand the letters, then write them by hand.

    All in all, learn to cook real food on the thing called "STOVE" at home, throw away crisps, candy, coke. Pure meat contains far more Proteins and good fat than a Pizza and tastes way much better. Dont let the kids play video-games unguarded every day. Send them off out in the woods, make them attend to sports or other social activities. Using the computers as baby sitters is just plain stupid.

    --
    "Never EVER mess with a jumper you don't know about, even if it's labeled 'sex and free beer'." - Dave Haynie
  55. Re:Strange. I was always taught it was the content by einhverfr · · Score: 1

    No, I think it just makes the ADD worse, just like it can interfere (in many people) with sleeping well.

    Anyway, redshift has done wonders for my ADD and my sleep schedule.....

    --

    LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
  56. Multi-tasking my ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    FFS, did we not already establish that _real_ multi-tasking is a myth! Humans cannot give sufficient focus on more than one activity at a time.

    1. Re:Multi-tasking my ass by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      Not true. There is a very small minority of people who can really multitask, while the overwhelming majority of us THINK we can. But to say no human can multitask would be like saying no 12 year-old could have composer skills that people are comparing to Mozart (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/11/24/60minutes/main657713.shtml).

  57. Re:As a software engineer and a parent by BeardedChimp · · Score: 1

    I similary have ADD as does my father and probably my sister.

    I'm going to give redshift a go and hopefully won't spend so much time on slashdot.

    Have you any other tips/software that have helped you out?

    Cheers

  58. Re:As a software engineer and a parent by einhverfr · · Score: 1

    The other tips I have that work for me:

    1) Get plenty of sleep
    2) Avoid alarm clocks when you can
    3) Avoid too much time in front of the TV
    4) Regular exercise and breaks from work help
    5) ++caffeine......
    6) I avoid too much sugar, particularly on an empty stomach

    I have been able to manage better w/o medication on this regime than I could with medication before/

    --

    LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
  59. Too much of Tech? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My octogenerian parents fear the PC. I am struggling to keep up with cutting age research that is on going in all fields. I feel evolution and survival would put pressure us too ourselves up to date. My kids should have tech knowledge if they are to be in control of their surroundings as and when they grow up. Survival of the fittest may also include survival of the tech-fittest for the next-gen. Better be the big-brother of the future, that be controlled by the big-brother.

  60. Re:As a software engineer and a parent by BeardedChimp · · Score: 1
    1. 1) I generally have trouble getting to sleep, although breaking off any use of computers/tv at least an hour before going to sleep helps.
    2. 2) Why avoid alarm clocks?
    3. 3) Yeah, as I said before too much use of tv/computer is a killer.
    4. 4) I cycle to work although adding in swimming is even better
    5. 5) Fortunately for me I have whatever the opposite of a sweet tooth is

    Without medication I can usually hold things to together for a couple of weeks, maybe even a month, but then things start to fall apart to a degree where I seem incapable of putting it back together. Getting medication in the UK has also been an absolute nightmare for me. As soon as I switch GPs the new one doesn't believe adult ADD exists and then will refuse to treat me for a while even though nice guidelines tell them they should. Quite a few of the GPs seem to have this idea that as soon as you turn 18 ADD always disappears. Now the local PCT is possibly refusing to fund any drugs, ugh.

  61. Multitasking is an essential what??? by daem0n1x · · Score: 2

    provide essential life skills, such as enhanced communication and multitasking

    It's rather retarded that the summary calls multitasking an "essential life skill". In my opinion, multitasking is one the worse woes in today's work environment. Kills productivity and quality. Forces people to work longer hours to keep up with the mess, disables them to perform meticulous tasks, causes an immense load of errors, destroys team work because everybody is too busy to pay attention to other team members, and makes people miserable in the end.

    The fact that so many bosses find it such an important quality is scaring.

    1. Re:Multitasking is an essential what??? by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      Multitaskers are awesome to have in your organization. Too bad something like only 2% of the population can really multitask, while 90% of all people THINK they can multitask.

  62. Re:As a software engineer and a parent by einhverfr · · Score: 1

    I know it is very different for different people. If I don't have caffeine for a couple weeks, I lose my ability to function. For example, I can't show up anywhere on time.

    I should have probably clarified I am functioning better than I would be if I was on prescription medication. The caffeine and the choices above really help. However during periods of heavy stress it isn't enough by itself. I have also had to learn to be comfortable with a lot more uncertainty than most people because I literally can't cope with the stress.

    But again, I was medicated with a number of different medications for years I can no longer tolerate reasonably. So it is perhaps for the better.

    As for your question
    I avoid alarm clocks because I find that waking up suddenly seems to make my ADD worse. I use them occasionally but maybe a few times a year....

    --

    LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
  63. Err, never enough? by stewbacca · · Score: 1

    How much reading is too much for children?

    Sounds like a pretty stupid "problem" when put in to context the idiots can related to.

  64. Vitamin D by Henk+Poley · · Score: 1

    It doesn't appear learning hurts the development, as much as the diminished amount of exposure to the sun when you keep people indoors. Low vitamin D gives all kinds of odd immune problems, muscle problems, hormone problems, brain problems, as it is needed for a lot of biological activity.

    We need to ask manufacturers to make their devices outdoor proof.

  65. The solution: Parenting! by Chelloveck · · Score: 1

    Too much tech is bad for kids. It's obvious. I don't let my kids use the computer at all, just to be safe. Nor do they have mobile phones. Or even use the phone in the house. I don't let them watch TV or listen to the radio... You can never be sure the evil tech isn't corrupting them. I keep them away from other technology, too. They don't get to see doctors or dentists. Or use indoor plumbing. And you know what? They'll thank me for it someday. And until they do, dammit, they can run around naked in the woods and eat whatever they can catch with their bare hands. The way kids were meant to live!

    --
    Chelloveck
    I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
  66. What I'm doing... by TemporalBeing · · Score: 1

    Well, our children won't be allowed any TV/etc before the age of 2, as that has been linked dramatically with attention-deficit-disorder, a direct result of the constantly flipping of scenes, etc. to keep the attention of viewers. After the age of 2, well, we might start letting them watch something here or there, but nothing consistent.

    Further, our TV will be hidden from view for the most part to help encourage them to do other activities. (My preference is to use a project hidden in the wall on one side of the room and displays on the opposing wall.) And yes, the Wii, etc. will be plugged in through those too.

    As to computers - I don't intend to introduce them to computers until much later - probably 5 or so; and then I'll do it with something like OLPC. Even then, we'll be encouraging them to read, etc. using books (not eBooks), etc.

    --
    Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)