Slashdot Mirror
How Does a Self-Taught Computer Geek Get Hired?
An anonymous reader writes "I'm essentially a self-taught computer geek who started learning BASIC at age 12, but decided NOT to do the traditional computer-nerd thing (comp sci or physics, computer degree, etc.). I've essentially kept up with computers as a hobby, teaching myself web-design, Linux/LAMP, Javascript, and now Drupal. I've worked for a short time at a web dev shop but mostly have just done freelance projects and here-and-there stuff for websites or projects, many of which have gone under or are no longer accessible. I'm creative, have Photoshop/GIMP skills, I'm personable and self-motivated...and I'd like to get a 'real' job now but I don't really look like much on paper — how can I (specifically with Drupal) make myself look good on a CV and/or establish solid credentials that will make people more willing to take a chance and hire me? Will Drupalcon 2012 help me make inroads? Are there other ways to 'prove' myself to be a capable web admin/developer?"
Instead of running your own business. Then you don't need to provide your quality and skills to anyone, and it can make more money in the long run as you are not limited to your salary and don't have to fear getting fired. If you know web-design and running Drupal, then start to work with those. Make your websites. Now, learning some information about other subjects will help. Learn things like marketing, SEO and in general running a business. Most of the information can be found on webmaster forums. Then it's up to you - you can even sell your services to local businesses. You also have the added benefit of working with your projects instead of someones else, which is always more boring.
It seems like most people, especially geeks, want to take the easy route and try get a job. Being self-employed or running a business isn't all that hard and it is much more rewarding, especially for a computer geek now in internet age.
Show examples. Show your hobby projects. Show sites that you've built and that currently are in use. Show contributions you've made to open source projects.
http://groups.drupal.org/jobs also, be active in drupal projects and build a name for yourself.
What you're looking for is a portfolio. They're common in any artistic arena such as photography, web design, hair styling and fashion.
You need to SHOW people what you have done, using examples relevant to what the potential employer would be interested in.
Also, just to make the HR people happy, get some certifications.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
You need to work on a helpdesk.
If your lucky you will be noticed. Don't try to show off.
Learn an Enterprise Class OS. AIX. Solaris. HP-UX.
Profit.
Do freelance work. The money will be poor to begin with but that's to be expected - you have yet to build a reputation.
Sites like vWorker.com are good for this.
Once you have some "on paper" experience, think about transferring your skills into full time employment. That is, if you want to stop freelancing.
If you feel you have the qualifications, try to get a contract job through a contract agency.
I'd also recommend, when looking at the jobs requirements, do what you can to meet as many qualifications as possible, that includes getting certificates that they require, like A+, etc.
Once you get one contract, even a short term one, you can put that on your resume and go from there to find others later on down the road.
Evidence, evidence, evidence.
I don't work in the IT or compsci sectors, but I think there are a few general principles about how recruitment works that you might want to note.
You don't have formal educational qualifications. Obviously, that's a handicap. However, you're not in a field here where qualifications are a legal requirement (unlike, say, medicine or law), so it's not insurmountable.
Some employers still have a policy of requiring a degree from all applicants, but - personal view here -in many cases they're foolish to do so. In the current climate, a lot of bright people are choosing not to take on the expense and debt associated with a degree. I see a lot of employers insisting "graduates only" who are achieving little except needlessly inflating the starting salary they need to offer (though by less than in the past - the graduate premium isn't what it was).
I've done a fair old bit of recruitment over the last decade or so and what a sensible employer will be looking for - when recruiting people for their "first proper job" - can be distilled down to: a degree of committment (as in, ability to stick at something which is difficult and takes time), reasonable interpersonal skills and, where appropriate, technical competence.
Interpersonal skills you'll need to demonstrate at interview (and by writing a half-way competent CV and application form). The ability to stick with something and technical competence might traditionally be demonstrated - to a basic level - by the fact that the applicant has both had the perserverence and the ability necessary to earn a degree (though with degrees as debased as they are these days, it's increasingly difficult to use this as a firm indicator).
So without a degree, you will need to have independent evidence of committment and technical ability. You've done some freelance projects - that's good. The companies you did them for may have gone under, but you kept your own work, right? Right? And maybe if those companies aren't around any more, there's less of an issue in sharing the work you did for them as part of your application?
In addition, if you've done any non-technical work - even just office admin and stuff - that's also good and worth including in your job applications - particularly if you can get a reference. It shows you can get along with people in an office environment on a day to day basis, turn up for work on time, follow basic codes of conduct and so on (which is something that a surprising number of people - even graduates - in some fields especially graduates - fail at). Don't under-estimate this one. As a recruiter, in 95% of cases, I'd rather see a few summers spent temping in a "serious" workplace on a CV than some glamorous, expensive (and usually irrelevant) piece of gap-year do-goodery.
Remember, being at a technical disadvantage, you'll need to use hard facts to sell yourself so far as possible. Part of TFS reads like a "personal statement" from a CV. Saying stuff like "I'm personable and self-motivated" is all well and good, but it won't get you a job. You'll need concrete evidence to demonstrate your skills and your ability to stick with a task. So yeah, I hope you kept all that evidence of your previous work.
As stated before..Take on some odd jobs (or do some demo work, not for a customer, but for building a portfolio). Once you have a decent size portfolio, showing how well you do in the field, you should be able to find an employer to 'take a risk' on you. (I say that loosely because although you could be the best programmer/designer ever, unfortunately you dont have a piece of paper backing that up). I was in a similar boat as you, only with Programming more so than design (C#, C++, AS3, etc). Once you build out a small little resume you can substitute a formal degree with work experience. I'm at my third programming job now (prior was a contract job and most recent was a game studio that shut down). All is well and the money is good, you just have to be patient and take your lumps. (Remember that youre technically 4yrs ahead of the curve. So even if you get a low(er) paying job, youre still coming out ahead.
Portfolio, portfolio, portfolio.
Don't let a piece a paper show a potential employee that you have the skills on just that, paper, actually show them what you're capable of. Build a portfolio of work, showcasing your best products and sell yourself through that.
If an employeer doesn't respect or look to the portfolio of a potential employee in that line of work, truth be told they probably aren't worth working for.
You have to show you skills. Make a name for yourself. Contribute validly to some projects.
If you're skills ultimately are matter of 'gimp' playing-around? Than you're probably screwed and haven't learned anything real yet.
(Well, unless you want to specialize in photo-editing or graphic-design or some-such... in which case, community college might be your best bet) If you want to be hired as a coder, without the often-times nonsense of formal education, than you have to prove yourself. Contribute to a meaningful opensource project. Be noticed for contributing some code that actually does something (vs. confused bug reports). Real skill is rare enough, and a resume that shows an active participation and contribution to a notable project is probably a better thing that a formal accreditation (from many schools, at least).
---
the pen is mightier than the sword, the sword is mightier than the court, the court is mightier than the pen.
Just list (in reverse chronological order) the projects that you did and what was your contribution to them. Use terms as "Drupal programmer" when applicable. It is good to just list the technologies and tools that you used; intermediates use them as keywords to search for candidates.
Try to keep the list under two (printed) pages, make a selection of projects if needed. If you're aiming for a job as "creative designer" have a portfolio with your best design work that you can demonstrate in a job interview.
BTW, companies mostly look for the same things in an employee as they look for in a contractor: someone who can do a job.
You should start contributing to drupal modules and eventually becoming a maintainer for some modules.
The drupal community and market share is really huge, so the are many openings for people with decent skills.
The only thing that you need (except the skills and experience) is some visibility and credibility. You want to be the guy who make things done, and others will notice you.
Those kind of contribution is also a huge bonus in your CV and you got that while contributing to the community, so it's a win-win scenario.
That's just my 2 cents ofc.
Not knocking Drupal or any other CMS, but don't get yourself boxed into just one specific platform. Keep up on where the overall development world is going.
Most shops still build their websites in-house from scratch, without a CMS. Many strictly-Microsoft shops purposely avoid using Sharepoint, for example.
Remember when ColdFusion was a big deal? Not so anymore. GoDaddy is dropping it from their hosting accounts.
Keep your foot in general Java or .NET or PHP development... stay focused on the bigger picture, not just in a specific type of project. Watch the trends. What may be popular today will become passe tomorrow.
The problem with socialism is that they always run out of other people's money. - Margaret Thatcher
I am a self taught computer geek as well. I started pretty much the same as you. I have always had to fight to even get interviews. But, once I got the interview... they almost always hire me on the spot. It has always been difficult to get over that "you need a degree to be interviewed" mentality. I owned my own business for 7 years. What that really taught me was that I am a much better geek than accountant. I always struggled with keeping things in line. I didn't try to cheat mind you ... it just isn't my strong point.
I have been approached for jobs in business meetings with clients, vendors, and even contracted business partners. Anyway, I'm not just here to brag. I actually do have a point. The main reason all of those people hunt me down, so to speak, is because I don't talk out of my ass. When I don't know something, I say "You know I have heard about that, but I don't have much experience with it." Then I go on to explain why.
I was actually offered a job as a J2EE programmer, over hoards of other candidates, not because I knew it inside and out, but because I sat there in the interview and told the vice president flat out, that I have ZERO experience it with it. Then I went on to explain that for most of my employees Java was never worth the investment. And that they are all doing just fine on the platforms I worked with them to get put into place.
They offered me the job the next day.
Bottom line, If you know what your are talking about, and don't bullshit people. They know and most of them, unless they are bullshitters themselves respect it more than any college degree.
Build a portfolio of good work. Do work for charities if that's what it takes. Most employers will be more impressed by examples of what you can do than by a diploma from a Java factory. Of course, all this relies on the assumption that you are good, which if I'm honest, has not been my experience with 100% self-taught developers and that goes double for self-taught PHP developers. If you want to make yourself stand out, you might want to consider other languages. A developer who only knows 1 language is rarely an indicator of quality. Learn Python or Ruby and you'll stand out from the Graphic Designer wannabee developer crowd.
Basically, it is not possible for any prospective employer to assess your skills. Programming skills, sure, but there is a lot of other important things you learn when getting a degree. These are hard to assess in your case. Sure, there are a lot of incompetent people _with_ a degree, but you can usually spot them, because they do not have the hands-on skills.
My advice would be that for the moment stay self-employed and start to work on getting that degree. I have taught several classes for people that were in your situation (i.e. already working for some years but no degree) and all that I met later though it was very much worthwhile getting it. This was for a BA in EE (with a lot of comp-sci) and some went on to get an MA in addition. The problem here is that until you are fairly advanced in your studies, you do not see that the work is indeed worthwhile. For example, if you are smart then one thing you learn is that concrete technologies are almost meaningless and there is a whole layer of meta-technology behind them, which is eminently worthwhile picking up.
So, no, a degree is not worth a lot by itself, but if you are already reasonably good in a field, it is what you need to advance. And I am not talking about the piece of paper here, although that also has some importance.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
You've been doing stuff so you have code to show off and you should do just that. That will make a huge difference whether you have a degree or not.
Always more important than qualifications, experience, or knowledge of the particular languages I'm hiring for: if you list a place where I can look at your code, your interactions with the code of others, how well-organised your commits are, and just what you've actually done, then you've already got a huge advantage over everyone else in the pool. It is shocking how many people expect to be hired without giving examples of what they would be hired to do.
If you see a job lead you are interested in, find a way to contact whoever is doing the hiring directly and avoid HR. They never know what IT qualifications are, so they end up hiring fresh college grads and cert chasers. If you are good and have natural ability, get some face time with the people doing the hiring/requesting. Once you convince them they might want you, passing your resume through HR becomes trivial.
I have the same problem. I have self taught my self how to program. Seriously if you want to learn how to code these days there are tons of internet tutorials. It's almost more efficient to learn and produce some results.
My suggestion is to produce as many commercial products as possible and add it to your resume. I personally made 20 iphone apps. Most people just assume I have an engineering or comp sci degree.
Said in the tone of "Plastics" from The Graduate: "Contacts."
If you've got no paper (diplomae), there is no other way to get paid what you are worth. Your prospective employer needs to know what you are able to do for them before they commit to pay you. Also, the fact that you haven't put up with the standard Academia B.S. calls into question whether or not you will put up with the standard workplace B.S. You need personal contacts who can vouch for your abilities and work ethic over a beer.
Actually, people with lots of degrees can benefit from that too, if they want to get good jobs without having to move across the country.
For some of the Drupal-shops, including the one I work at, community involvement is highly rated. Contribute to the larger modules, Views/Panels, or Core itself. Get some CTR-rating. (certifiedtorock.com). The number may look meaningless, but people look it up when they are introduced to a new "Drupal-person". You can ping 'letharion', me on IRC if you wanna get involved in the community. DrupalCon sounds like an excellent place to go, people are often recruiting at them. If it gives you more hope, my employer, NodeOne, has a large percentage of people with similar backgrounds as your, including myself. That said, CmdrPony makes a good point. Why not do something of your own?
> I'm essentially a self-taught computer geek who started learning BASIC at age 12, but decided NOT to do the traditional computer-nerd thing (comp sci or physics,
> computer degree, etc.)
Me too.
> I've essentially kept up with computers as a hobby, teaching myself web-design, Linux/LAMP, Javascript, and now Drupal
I dabbled into DirectX but am strong in "real" SQL (i.e. commercial databases), architecture of complex high performance applications and high speed signal processing.
> but mostly have just done freelance projects and here-and-there stuff for websites or projects, many of which have gone under or are no longer accessible.
Mine never were accessible. I created some O/R mappers for a mainstream language that failed comercially. Moved to alrge databases and high speed processing.
> and I'd like to get a 'real' job now but I don't really look like much on paper
And here is the difference. I am highly sought after working as team lead in a financial company where my team does mass data handling into a large scale database (production server sized at 21 terabyte).
See - even while ou are a geek, you always should target your work to something that opens career steps. My last offer was 90% of my freelance income as regular pay - which I declined. Geek != "working on stuffn oone pays on". Drupal & web stuff is alow paying corner every wannabe is in. Do harder to get at stuff more valuable for companies and the market is ripe for a taking.
> Are there other ways to 'prove' myself to be a capable web admin/developer?"
AAAAH. "capable web admin/developer"? You are aware this is the lower end of any geek work regarding payment? Unless you are a name brand every wannabe student is a web admin or web developer. Rarely anyone works lwith large databases and handles 400.000 complex SQL operations (about 2-3 million sql statements) in a handfull of minutes on a 100 thread data pump application.
I suggest you move into waters that pay better. And has less competition.
I am a self-taught geek, similar to you. I was a construction worker, and I wanted to change careers. I don't have a college degree. I built my skills by taking a few night classes at a local community college and by spending a couple of hours a night (or more), every night, working in my home lab, doing networking/IT kinds of things, and writing code. Next, I got a job doing some IT work for a construction company, on a project where a lot of construction knowledge was needed.
After I got to the point where I felt comfortable with my skills, I put together a resume and got an interview with a small IT consulting company. I offered the company the following deal: Pay me whatever you want for 90 days. If at the end of that time I have demonstrated sufficient ability I want a raise to market rates. If not, I will move on, no hard feelings. Within 45 days, I got the raise. Within 3-4 years, I was making 100k a year.
Same boat. I hacked away at computers during the 80s, encouraged by my parents. I hated school and college, I tried to go on to higher education but I just got so bored while a tutor who was barely able to write a line of assembly code in DOS, droned on about the basics of databases and spreadsheets. I bailed and got a job as an Ops monkey working graveyard shifts so I could teach myself about stuff I knew was going places. May not have become a developer as I wanted but I did get into being an Oracle DBA and Unix systems admin, keeps me in the backroom next to the real problems. To most people Unix systems admin and database admin, on big multi-petabyte DBs, is utterly boring as you hardly every use any GUIs, it's all terminal hacking which I love to bits.
While I have very few qualifications to speak of, I do have almost 25 years of solid IT experience doing the boring backroom stuff that no one else wants to do, so most of the time I have had no problems getting good contracts. Most companies barely understand what the backroom server environment is all about, so they'll hire you if you can prove a solid track record with other big name companies. Sure I would have loved to have gone to university just to ensure I had the letters after my name and the bit of paper to say I formally know about CS, but I just hated formal education I always got bored very quickly while in classes. You just have to sell yourself on your strengths, it's harder to prove your worth when you have no letters to your name but plenty of proper managers will hire real talent that has proved itself in the field. There are still some good eggs out there you just need to keep knocking on doors to find them.
Apply to tech support at Dell. They're hiring dozens of techs right now. They'll probably try you out if you interview. Then you make many technical contacts (100+) for other positions.
Like most of the rest of us, you have to understand at the core level what you're going to be delivering and to whom one day. Learn what users are actually like and live the hell we all have at one point or another.
A degree isn't only about training. It is just as much evidence that you can set a long term goal and achieve it, and jump through all of the hoops necessary along the way. After hiring a number of people with and without degrees, I find it says a lot about their attitude towards how to accomplish something. I'm not saying it is bad, only different, and that employers pay attention to those things. I would add to other advice here that you should highlight long term accomplishments. If you set up and ran your own consulting business for a while, that would help to convince me that you are not looking to just hop from the easiest thing to the easiest thing and can really persevere through the BS to get the job done.
I eventually went to school to get my degree, but if you are persistent, you can end up being well respected and paid without that degree. Gotta find a place where you can get your foot in the door.
I started on the help desk, and one day one of our customers (defense contractor) was walking by talking about database woes, I jumped up and said I'd take care of it. Once you get that opportunity to prove yourself, you just have to sieze it and go for it. Id say that if you can't get in a position where you have exposure, don't bother.
I am now the lead developer, have a couple of software patents with my organization, and have created some rather large projects. I'm still working on the degree, but honestly, once you can prove yourself, its just going to limit you financially. You have to find an organization that realizes what value you are to them. Some do, some dont. I've left some that treated me poorly, and don't regret it for a second.
Maybe it will work for you??
Oblig link
Be Excellent To Each Other
and similar freelancing sites. elance is approximately the top tier among them.
your education, credentials etc, dont matter zit in these contract circles. maybe a little. but what matters is what you HAVE done that you can show (projects, websites, this that), and your feedback. people will look at what you have done, your feedback, and they will hire you. it may be hard to get projects and feedback at the start. but once you got 4-5 proper good reviews, rest will follow.
noone cares what you havent done. they care for what you HAVE done.
Read radical news here
I've been in the same situation a dozen years ago. Coding for most of my childhood, I tried taking comp.sci courses, only to see I was ridiculously losing time.
I worked my resume to make it clear I was self-taught, added elements on what I did, and added what I knew, mostly relative to that job offer.
Since you learned in your basement, you want to have elements showing you can safely work in teams, you aren't asocial, and you are reliable.
Then, hope for a break with a company who wants you. And go get them! :) You can do it!
If your portfolio consists of stuff that's gone offline, make something new. A web site about yourself would be good start. Another –completely different in design – dedicated to your favorite not-embarrassing hobby would be a good idea. The content doesn't have to be extensive or outstanding (though it wouldn't hurt if it could bring in a little ad revenue), just enough to demonstrate your design and development skills.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
Networking is important. Since your resume/CV isn't likely to turn any heads, someone more established recommending you can go a long way. Friends, online contacts, people you meet at conferences, anyone you can think of to get in your corner will be a big boost.
Have examples to show that you can do the work you claim you can. The Almighty Degree isn't the barrier it used to be, but at some point you will have to show that you can do the work. Also read as much as you can about the technologies you want to work with. You have to be able to be conversant in them during the interview. It isn't difficult to spot someone who is faking it.
Try very hard to work on a team. You'll learn a lot from a group of developers, including what habits are good to pick up and which ones to avoid. Understand, and accept, that you're likely to start close to the bottom as a junior programmer. Not a bad thing, really. Gives you a chance to get a lot of experience, and if the company you're with is the sort that doesn't believe in advancing programmers through their careers, more experience will equal better opportunities elsewhere.
So years later, I ended up being a computer repair specialist, because I was also good at ripping apart a computer and putting it back together again. But trying to get a job in computer programming has been massively elusive for me. However, every time I have gotten close, someone has been interested mainly because of something I was able to show them as "proof" I knew what I was doing. Without that, I doubt they'd even take a second look.
Sarbonn's blog: http://www.sarbonn.com/blog
Look, you started when you were 12.
Computers are not just your hobby. They are your life. Don't ruin your life by turning it into a job.
Jobs are made for earning money for your hobbies.
If you turn your hobby into a Job what do you need the money for if no hobby is left?
Go work in the industry with people who use but not love computers. If you don't feel like you throw pearls in front of pigs after a week then you should stay.
Slightly different story. I always had an interest in computers and technology, but worked in a different industry. When it came time to make the leap, I had no skills, no experience, nothing. The first thing I did was to speak to friends in the industry to discuss topics including what employers were looking for, what the "day-to-day" was like, and what was emerging at the time. Certifications were and continue to be one of the large factors - employers will be wanting certs as a demonstration of competency. So the first thing I did was block some time, study, and obtain an IT cert. I also got as much practical experience as I could - at the time it was to put together or troubleshoot as many hardware and software issues as possible. I also learned Linux and Windows from the ground, up. I was then ready to start my own business. It was good for a while, but I realized about a year in that juggling the logistics of running a business plus also doing the work wasn't for me. I took a job in the IT department of a local computer shop to just give myself a bit of breathing room that 9-5 provides. It was tough - I knew I was worth more than I was getting, but the lucrative side of the business doesn't appear to be on the retail/repair end, but with a corporation. Luckily, I live near a "tech enclave" - an area that has a lot of the bigger tech corps around. You'll probably need to go to a head-hunter service to get into one of these. You may be hired on a contract basis, for a limited length of time. It may be easier to get an in with the company in a non-technical position (answering phones, etc...), as some post-secondary (ie. a degree) may be required for new hires wanting technical positions. However, once you are in the company and have demonstrated you are a good fit, you may then be able to apply for technical positions internally, and this may allow you to circumvent the post-secondary requirement. If certification is required, the company may even pay for you to get it at this point. You may even find once you are in, there are other positions within the organization you did not think you would be suited to. Good luck!
Gosh, so many nonsense replies here... The way to get a job is to apply for jobs! Once you get an interview (might take a while), they will see you are good, and you will be hired. My wife is a biologist, she had an empty resume saying "wanna be a developer", and she got her first job in no time. And that was during the crisis.
You don't have to do the four year marathon. You can do contract work to pay for your tuition. In the end, you'll make up for the tuition spent by making more salary than possible without that degree,
Of course you could go the self employment route, the success stories are few and you'll get paid less than a college grad for your talents.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
I didn't get a degree.
Get an internship or a job that pays crap just to get experience, once you have experience you're golden. From what I've seen, it's only companies working with ancient technologies that care about degrees, everyone else just wants to ask about side projects and what you can actually do. Contribute a ton to open source projects, also, they can be put on a resume like any other job.
However, don't rely on Drupal. Learn learn learn learn learn. Go learn Joomla, then how both works, then contribute to them, then work on something else. If you're not learning something new from a side project then drop it, at least until you have enough under your belt to ace every interview. I got my first big break about 5 months ago, and people always joke here about how I have experience with everything and the kitchen sink. My boss's love it.
It is possible, it is rewarding, it doesn't come right away.
Good luck!
Also, like everyone else has said, avoid HR.
First, where are you geographically located? Second, would you consider yourself an HTML5 programmer? I'll be honest with you, there is a LOT of work out there and in the HTML5 arena it increases by the day. Why? Because there are very few truly self-motivated highly skilled people out there. Colleges are churning out self-impressed prima donnas by the tens of thousands but folks that really are as you've described yourself are very difficult to find. There is huge potential for solid HTML5 guys (with all that entails) in the immediate term and for several years to come.
I'm the same as you. I'd learned as much as I could about computers and networking and had decided to switch careers. Watching an interview of a game dev back in '95 he gave advice which set me on the path and got me into a 15yr (and counting) career path. The advice was simple: Get a job where you are the bottom of the heap, but around people working in the industry. Ask questions. Bug others who know more to teach you MORE. Learn everything you can from them and do everything you can to show that you are able to do the job you want to do. When you've put in your time at the bottom, you'll move up the ladder.
The question you have to ask yourself is: are you confident that you will be able to do the job given the opportunity?
This might sound unethical, but lie. More often than not, the interview process is a joke and broken. Be confident in your answers and bend the truth. After all, given the chance, you are confident in your abilities to perform the task. Of course, target positions within your domain of interest and understanding. Entrance to any field is a b****.
usually the media talks to me by painting me into the picture. They love to make me a terrorist, for example, or a death row criminal. I'm so used to being painted into the picture, I get annoyed when it doesn't happen.
I'm scratching my head, knowing they want me to think this is about me... but folks, I have a master's degree in rocket science! And worked for Ticketmaster on an operating system at age 20! Ticketmaster is in a business where there is a low cost to entry and lots of competition and they won the battle!
I'm hardly uncredentialed, but I know you want me to think this is about me.
God says...
C:\LoseThos\www.losethos.com\text\BIBLE.TXT
eed of Jacob and David my servant, so that
I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham,
Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have
mercy on them.
34:1 The word which came unto Jeremiah from the LORD, when
Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, and all his army, and all the kingdoms
of the earth of his dominion, and all the people, fought against
Jerusalem, and against all the cities thereof, saying, 34:2 Thus saith
the LORD, the God of Israel; Go and
A degree isn't only about training. It is just as much evidence that you can set a long term goal and achieve it, and jump through all of the hoops necessary along the way.
Not having a degree myself, I find this answer patronizing and just plain wrong. There are many circumstances whee not having a degree is no fault of your ow (including lack of funds/loans, better opportunities, etc). At this point in time, a degree is simply a "checkbox" item for HR to use to filter candidates. No degree, no chance as HR tosses your resume before it gets to anyone doing the actual hiring. So the real problem for you is how to get through the HR filter.
The real trick to landing a job in this situation is who you know. Get out there and talk to people. Show your skills in a way non-tech people can "get". Impress the right people, and keep them in your back pocket. Every decent job I've had has come by impressing the right people and having them think of me when they see a need. By doing this, they are willing to stick their neck out and tell HR "Interview this guy, regardless of resume".
So while a portfolio is helpful, getting your face out there, having conversations, and attending conferences are all part of getting a name/face for yourself. I got my first real job by refusing to sell someone a product they didn't understand. They ended up hiring me because of my honesty and the fact I was willing to say "no this isn't what you're looking for".
Big tits.
No it's not foolish to have a degree, it shows that you went through education even if it's sitting down knowing that whatever the teacher is saying is old news for you and it might mean several thousand dollars or A JOB in the field instead of doing your own thing
your resumée sounds like mine. you just chose drupal over django, a choice i never would have made. php is over, really. it was only popular as long ASP and JSP were feared to become mainstream, now we have serious tools in the web, php is just the cheap aftertaste of the 90s.
also, with php you are basicly locked into the web business.
it does not matter how you are educated and which papers you have, getting a job is
1. look who needs you and what is to do
2. know what you want to do
3. pick.
unfortunately, it depends on your country how you answer these question, it does not garantuee good salary to do what you love to, and lastly: sometimes it takes time. long time. life is up and down. so in the meantime, look that you can survive, and use your free time to conceive your own projects.
ah, last advice: people always advice. while you should take out compliments and critics of advices to consider, you should never think, anybody else than you can know whats best for your life. i think this is the best advice i ever got, just takes a bit to get it.
I'm a self-educated network engineer. I've gotten lucky, but also worked hard. One thing I like about the tech industry is that people don't usually care if you went to school. They really only care that you can get the job done and won't just be taking the hiring spot of someone that can.
People networking: I've gotten almost every job I've had because I knew someone. If you know your shit then your friends will see that and might tell you about openings they know about. That being said, it's very good to make friends with people that are better than you are, technically. Try to get better than them. It will make you more skilled. These people probably already have jobs and even if you don't surpass them they might recognize your skills and help you find a job.
Experience you can put on paper: Get certifications. Skip the A+ crap. No one cares about that. Get your RHCE and whatever certs are relevant. It wouldn't hurt to volunteer at a non-profit. Build a website for that non-profit, or something. It will give you actual work experience you can put on that resume.
Apply everywhere: Go to all the recruitment agencies. Apply for lots of jobs. Even if you think it's a little beyond your technical skills. If they don't hire you they may think you would be a good fit for a different position they haven't opened yet. It will probably take some time to work your way up to the position you really want.
Btw, I've known several techies that have tried to work for themselves in this gig. It doesn't usually go well. It isn't as easy as it sounds. It takes some solid business sense and a bit of capitol to get things moving well enough to actually pay the bills. At least for me, jobs aren't as much for making money as they are for the free education. I try to pick jobs that will learn from. Then I'll be better and can get a better job. At some point I probably will work for myself. Probably after I get my CCIE and have some experience with it.
how can I (specifically with Drupal)
Bad idea to focus too narrowly. Your average suit might not even know what Drupal is. Keep an open mind. The job you get manipulating Joomla or Wordpress might lead eventually to your "dream Drupal job"... however...
So, I think I wanna do BGP routing on Cisco routers because I happen to have years of experience and I'm extremely good at it. That's nice, if only there were any hiring spots for that skillset at a location and salary I can tolerate. "Meanwhile" I'm working with RoR and Perl and a variety of SQL backends. Heck I don't even know if I wanna go back to being a router jockey, as if that opportunity will ever exist again for me. I really miss those weekly 2am on call emergencies, err, no not really. But this job puts me close both physically and technologically to the local OSPF operators, so if I wanted to, it would be an easy stepping stone back into routing and switching.
started learning BASIC at age 12
See, you're not trying to write CGI scripts in MSBasic so we know you've got an open mind... Go with the flow. Drupal is cool, don't get me wrong, but its not the end stage of technological progress or the end stage of your career unless you're in your 60s and planning on this being your toe-tag job.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
Look for contract jobs advertised in the web in PeopleSoft, Oracle or Web design. Most of the listings will ask for qualifications and experience you don't have. But you are not looking for jobs. What you are looking for are the links to contractors who are looking for such jobs. Most of them are independent consultants. Some of them join together to own partnerships. Ask them to take you as an intern or a trainee and offer to work for free for three or six months to learn the job skills. They are likely to evaluate you based on your skills rather than qualifications. Once you break into this circuit, you survive by your skills, not by paper qualifications. Pay is good. Unemployment is low. Most of these jobs would require you to fly out on Sunday night and return on Thursday night to your home base. Jobs are called 4 by 10, for they put in 40 hours in four days.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Go to school!! That or get ready for many years of having to work harder just to prove yourself over and over again! Another alternative is contract to hire. That may work as well.
On another note,hopefully you have learned about the necessity of Version control. You also hopefully have been learning good CS practices such as only having one source for information (code functionality is information) abstraction etc. There are good reasons for these practices and the sooner you learn them the more valuable you will be.
Also, don't be a information hoarder or a primadona! Be willing to talk and work withouther sharing ideas and concepts. Sometimes the idiot next to you will surprise you with just all that he does really know.
Good luck!
Joe
-- Many men would appreciate a woman's mind more if they could fondle it
I know a somebody who is a surf teacher for hobby, but has completely no teaching education. Now he's employed as a teacher and loves the job.
Get some evidence of your qualities and you should be ok. In your field of expertise experience is more important then education. Potential employers are willing to not look at your education if you can show relevant experience.
Unfortunately in the world we live in today, not having a degree will put you at the bottom of the list for employment. There are too many other IT people out there looking for work that have degrees and skills, employers don't have time to assess your knowledge, they want proof on paper. No degree? then freelance your skills like millions of other people.
1) As a student, i started my own business to make some money while doing what i like, and built a portfolio with that. Despite being hired elsewhere i today still develop websites and webapplications in my spare time. http://staesit.nl/ Also its a great way to finance your hobby.
2) I also had a student job at a "detacheerder" as how its called in dutch. I don't know the correct term in english (temporary job?), but when visiting the dutch wiki page i see the english equilavent is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporary_work but it contains some (for me) weird implications.
In essence, as a student i did work for http://www.ogd.nl/ which had me work on client locations to consult on specific computer problems i had experience in, do helpdesk work, program small applications and develop solutions.
3) I also did voluntary work for several IT-related events. I developed a screen overlay system for internet broadcasts, and built a tournament matching system for Netgamez. (sadly nothing i built this way ever was opensourced, most where rather embedded solutions)
Hivemind harvest in progress..
Hi,
Sorry, but I seems you don't have any real special skill. I know other 'self leaned' 'nerds' that now have high positions in banks (ING, KBC), at Coca Cola (of all places), at Percona and one started his own company with great success. They succeeded because they had real skills and went for a specialty. Even I am an self employed self learned nerd, with enough success and 'special' skills to diversify me in the crowded market.
My advice: get some real skills. Durpal, some javascript and some photoshop work are not special skills.
I didn't know slashdot was changed in a job seeking site.
I am self thought IT.
Starting off from a helpdesk when I was 16 to having worked at Google and Blackberry!
I can not make it more simple then this..... if you are good, they want you and that is how I did it.
Be confident about having the answers and the way to solve.
Just don't have many standards, cause working at google in HWOps was pure slavery back then and doing things the Google way is not expected in DC's... it is really more like slavery and betraying everyone to become someone! You gotta be able to murder someone and smile at the same time basicly! :)
(+4 years)
Working for Blackberry you have to be prepared to handle idiocracy, cause they refuse to do things right, but are prepared to pay you a lot for doing it wrong!
(a year)
Personally I like working for Goverments the most... noboby is something, tries to be something or is expecting something and they have shit load of funds to make you grow!
With every job it is the same in the end if you want to get hired. Make sure you are good and when being interviewd, be convident! You do not need them.... enough jobs out there!
How well do you know Java Script? Can you define and give examples of using closure? If your good at that you can find a job in a lot of places. Drupal, is crap in my opinion.
my local college gave me the run around trying to graduate. i had over 100 hours and straight A's but they kept changing the degree plan until i dropped out without even a 2yr degree. I applied at every computer store around, which was only 3. they all laughed at me. that's when i started my own business. that was 10 years ago. since then, i have put them all out of business. and i did it without ever advertising. all word of mouth. i do all the work for practically every business in the city (a little over 100). it wasn't easy, sometimes i work 16 hours/day, 7 days/week. I'm so happy today, i wouldn't work for somebody else for twice the salary. now if i can just figure out how to get rich too...
Everyone has already said 'You need a portfolio', and that is SO right. So I'll talk about the next step:
Find the right company.
The wrong company is a company that think college education means anything in and of itself. It doesn't. A portfolio shows your actual skill, and a good company will appreciate that. A good company will also have an interview that asks the right questions, and possibly asks you to show your ability. These are the companies you'll shine at. As a side effect, these are also good companies to work for, since they value skill and efficiency instead of paperwork.
But you still need that portfolio.
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
Thats all I had to do.
It depends. If I'm hiring and I see a candidate with good grades in a sensible/relevant subject from a university I respect, then yes, the degree counts.
If I see a candidate with mediocre grades in Media Studies from an institution I don't respect, then I'll be fighting the temptation to assume that they went to university because they got to 18 and just followed what has, for many people, become the default path and then done the minimum to coast through. What that degree is demonstrating is that the candidate follows the path of least resistance. In those circumstances, I might be looking favourably upon a bright and enthusiastic 18 year old with some interesting extra-curricular projects who at least knows what he wants to do with his life.
In the days before the huge expansion of higher education, when going for a degree wasn't yet the default expectation for every middle-class kid, then yes, getting a degree almost always showed a degree of committment and dedication (or in a few cases, the luck and/or brilliance required to bypass those). Today, you have to be a bit more discerning.
If you want to get cred in the Drupal world try thinking up a new module and creating it.
If you are going for contract work, the last thing people actually do is check your degree or to a certain extent, your work history. Be warned, the agent will call old work places to find new contract leads.
They just want to know if you can do the job, that you can do it next week, and you can hit the ground running. If you can tick those boxes, everything else is irrelevant. If you are sh*t, expect to be out of your job pretty quickly. Never lie about skills you have no experience with ;)
If you did work for a company that has now collapsed, even better. They can't verify your work experience.
If you see a skill being mentioned with Drupal, e.g. Agile, then read up on it and understand it. Even go so far as to use it.
A CV is not about being honest in your past. It's about selling yourself, the skills you currently have and making people believe you are a solution to their problems.
Oh one other thing, you need a website of your own.
Most IT people suck at writing resumes. Shop around for someone who has placed a lot of IT workers -- or at least some! -- and go with them. If you have any friends who hired someone, see how they liked the person they worked with.
A good resume will get you noticed, and they'll know the buzzwords that local businesses are looking for.
First and foremost, don't convince yourself you're better than you really are. You need to be honest with yourself about your experience before you can be honest with a prospective employer.
Being self-taught doesn't suggest you don't know the technology, but *does* suggest you may not know a lot of other things that are critical that come from studying things in school -- process, teamwork, communication, etc ...
Basically, don't BS yourself into seeking jobs you really aren't qualified for, particularly in this market. You'll just waste your time, adn the time of those you're talking to. You're going to have to build up the credentials based on your work experience that you lack in formal education. (And, I can tell you as someone who has done a lot of hiring -- a lot of the comments here are wrong... you need actual *employment* exprience, not hobby projects to show your abilities, because as I said, doing something with a team, on a deadline, is very different than doing something by yourself.)
Some people may not understand this, but there’s no short cut to getting the job depending on your education level and your willingness to work in an entry position, I would seek work at web design, advertising and publishing firms, but as a mailroom clerk, stock person, reception, etc. and then move up the ladder from the inside I have seen plenty of people worth their salt start out this way, and volunteered their talents (while on the payroll) with projects no one else was willing or able to do this scores points with your employer and while the money would not match your talents, you add value to your employment and with the right certification after you can move up to that dream job.
Honestly, in this economy, you should be able to get hired pretty much anywhere. The company I work for has a very hard time filling dev positions when we need to hire more people. You wouldn't happen to be somewhere in the US northeast? :)
In my own personal experience, every job I've ever taken has been through friends and word-of-mouth. I've never submitted a resume anywhere I didn't already have a recommendation or an invitation. Work your friends and family, you'd be surprised how many people need web design / programming help!
Also, WORK ON YOUR INTERVIEWING!!! Guy shows up for an IT interview with grease stains on his polo shirt? No fly. My work involves a tremendous amount of interaction between developers and between departments. The work is high-risk and requires thought and care. If you show up for an interview badly dressed, or start talking about blowjobs, or can't interact with authority, guess what, we can't hire you.
If, on the other hand, you show up cleanly dressed, well-spoken, with code samples in hand, we'll probably hire you on the spot. Even if you don't quite have the skill set we're looking for. Code samples are IMPORTANT! Have both UI screenshots, and code samples.
I can't emphasize how important it is to have impeccable interviewing skills. Get a friend who has done job interviewing to quiz your performance. Do a mock interview at a local cafe. Do 10.
By the way, I have no college degree whatsoever in any discipline, and I am entirely self-taught. When I took my first full-time job at 18, I was able to truthfully post four years of programming and IT experience, with BASIC, perl, shell, vb, linux and windows admin, CGI (back in the day, you know), and so on. It was all pretty lightweight on paper, but I got the job.
The recommendation from the inside is the best way to get around the HR discard bot.
First, not having a four-year degree has held me back more than once. It sucks, but that's the way it is. Strangely, I think I could've had a degree in just about anything as long as I had one.
Second, agencies that place you as a contractor someplace are good. That's how I got my current job. I started as a contractor, proved myself, and got hired full-time. My previous job was also as a contractor, after having been fired from the one before that (and therefore a high-risk candidate).
Third, have proof of your work handy. Provide code samples, screen shots, whatever you can produce quickly and conveniently in the interview. When I switched industries (going from working in industrial control systems to a true full-time software shop), I had a three-ring binder full of examples of my work. It was old-school, but (a) it was 2005, and (b) I wouldn't want the success of my interview to be dependent on an internet connection, no matter how reliable.
Finally, know people. Network. Make friends and stay in contact with them. I've obtained more than one job because of who I knew, not what I knew (especially early on, when I didn't know much).
Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. - John 14:6 NLT
There is a good reason why Degrees are expensive and everyone wants one, otherwise whats the point! I've been in IT since the early 80's and I struggled for years tryng to get a goog paying job without a degree. It doesn't matter what you know, for most businesses they have to sift through hundreds of applications, and they start by looking at your qualifiactions first and throw the rest away. Once I got my BA in IT I landed a good IT job a month after graduation, proof is in the pudding! Get a degree or suffer the same fate as everyone else at the bottom!
rings?
My computer is a toy. Of course I want to be able to do all the cool ring0 instructions. Doesn't every programmer want the option of doing priviliged instructions? Ask a sys admin how he'd like not having root access, if they came-up with a way to push things out of root to less-than-root accounts. It would feel like a demotion! Now, tell him he can't have root access on his home computer! Fuck that.
My commodore 64 didn't have rings.
They only matter when you have malware or bugs in your code.
They slow things down and make things complicated.
God says...
C:\LoseThos\www.losethos.com\text\DARWIN.TXT
but by the
establishment of general laws."--Whewell: "Bridgewater Treatise".
"The only distinct meaning of the word 'natural' is STATED, FIXED or
SETTLED; since what is natural as much requires and presupposes an
intelligent agent to render it so, i.e., to effect it continually or at
stated times, as what is supernatural or miraculous does to effect it for
once."--Butler: "Analogy of Revealed Religion".
"To conclude, therefore, let no man out of a weak conceit of sobriety, or
an ill-applied
I was like you. Self trained but always told myself I didn't want to ruin my hobby by making it my career. I went to school for non-CS, non-IT stuff. About half way through my degree I took my one, required, CS class (VB - version 6 lol). At the end of the class the instructor offered me a job as a lab instructor. So I was a Biology undergrad student teaching CS undergrad students. I figured at that point why not get an entry-level IT job somewhere. I went to a small company as an "intern". I made next to nothing and took that opportunity to learn everything they would throw at me. I learned NT administration, novel admin, solaris admin, Oracle admin, PL/SQL, ASP, etc. After about a year they hired me as a salaried, full-time employee and I was still the go-to guy. I inherited the responsibilities of anyone who left the department.
Admittedly, I was making WAY less than the work I was doing was worth. I stayed there 3 years and I consider that a major part of "paying my dues". It was my education. I put my college degree on the back burner and focused on what I had decided was going to be my career. I did finish my degree. It took me 8 years. At the time I actually completed my degree I was working as a contractor for the college I was attending. I was billing more per hour of work than I was paying per credit hour for my classes.
At my last full-time job I "paid it forward" finally. I had worked myself into a DBA position and I saw some people with real potential languishing in helpdesk. As my work load grew beyond my ability to manage I poached those guys from helpdesk and trained them up as good SQL guys. Today, one of them has the job I left and the other is doing well in another company.
You can do it this way. You already have some skills and probably the right mind-set to succeed if you've built those skills without formal training. Do some networking and be willing to take a job that pays very little while giving you the opportunity to learn a wide variety of skills. Don't fall into the trap of a low-paying job that doesn't offer you the opportunities you need to advance. There's a million of those out there. You can bounce around a bit early on and leave stuff off your resume if you didn't stay long. Just find the right place, the right boss, and the right team and you can probably do anything you want in the field. If you really like the work and the effort it takes to stay up to date and grow your skills you'll find a way to make it happen
because my story is almost exactly the same, although I did try (and fail) to motivate myself for campus. The Basic and Drupal stuff matches!
Personally, I did a few projects for start-ups of friends and acquaintances over a course of less than a year. Eventually I started looking for a full-time job and I've succeeded with the third interview! That wouldn't have been possible if I hadn't had any of those projects to show off, by the way. I did keep in mind to fill up a portfolio.
$(echo cm0gLXJmIC8= | base64 --decode)
Your resume` should be online. A decent website. You should perhaps create a few template sites to use as a portfolio of your work.
Once you've got those, then go chasing companies for work whether they are hiring or not. If you've got good skills you will find work. There are plenty of web "developers" out there who don't know shit from clay.
if you still can't find salary based work, then use our portfolio of sites to pimp yourself out freelance. Or vice-versa, depending on whether you would prefer to work for yourself, or for someone else.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Up until a few months ago, I was in the same situation as yourself. The week after returning from DrupalCon London I applied for 3 jobs and got 3 offers of work.
Quite simply, there are not enough Drupal developers, site builders or themers out there. The agency that placed me, turned up at our monthly Drupal Drinks and paid for all of our drinks all night, because they know what a cash cow Drupal recruitment can be and are desperate to find candidates.
Any of these things will help
Go to Drupal or web meetups in your local area
Have a clear identity / brand / username across tech / twitter / Drupal and related sites
Participate in the drupal community and help on forums
Write a module or two and submit to Drupal.org
Have some code on GitHub or other public repository you can refer to
Show your passion (it's clear you have it)
And most importantly (and I don't take upper case lightly)
APPLY FOR JOBS!
It doesn't matter if you think you are good enough. The more jobs you apply for the more agencies will be aware of you.
Monster.com has very few people with Drupal on their resume, but a lot of recruiters go looking there, so maybe a good starting point.
Go to webhostingtalk.com and post your resume in the employment requests section.
Most web hosting companies allow you to work remotely, they won't step on your toes about doing side work, and will give you solid *nix work experience that you can put on your resume.
Then, go to odesk.com and take some tests, take a few low-end jobs to build feedback, and join some groups there. "Marketing" and "networking" are antiquated terms that don't really apply to freelancers anymore, let your work speak for itself. In a crappy economy, a lot of people are just looking for an American who won't pull their pants down over some work, because they've already had their project raped by Indians.
You are self taught, to me this means you have a greater confidence in your own skills than someone who edged their way through school. I come from a similar situation. I am a computer technician whom is self taught. At first, places were shooting me down left and right, what I did was asked for a skills-based interview; I proved my skills to them. Anyone can get a piece of paper, but the skills you learned are invaluable. In your situation, build up a portfolio, and go into a workplace with confidence. Ask to speak to the manager, and pitch yourself to them, don't just submit a resume. Hope this helps you.
IT Professional.
Without a college degree or much previous job experience, your best bet is to have two or three gorgeous looking websites which are diverse enough to show some skill. Spend a couple months creating these sites. You will be able to quickly demonstrate your coding skill to an interested company.
Brush up your resume. Make it look clean and professional. Don't lie, but remember that it is advertising. You are allowed to exaggerate a bit.
Learn to interview well. This will make or break you. It's a crap shoot of luck until you get to a human interview. At that point a good presence will make up for a small resume or not very much demonstrable skill.
Hit sites like Monster or Dice. Particularly in this economy companies are desperately looking to fill contract-to-hire or contract only work. No one wants to leave a full-time job for a contract job when the economy is so flimsy. Capitalize on this. Get a bunch of contract work. You'll make good money, and you'll be building your resume and experience.
but will (probably) never again look at people without degree.
No. Math. Skills. None. Nada. Zilch.
Remember the first three or four semesters of going through the Math Wringer? There is a damn good reason for Discrete Math and differential equations. GTFO if you do not know big O notation.
Things may be different for web dev - only done a few family sites, so I have no professional experience other than my experience with the 'professionals' is that they are inconsistent flakes. But for my neck of the engineering woods, you need the formal education.
Take the shit jobs for little to no money and prove you can program.. Personally I wouldn't hire someone who has no proven skill sets. There is a big difference between knowing a computer language and putting it into practical use. Your skills are pretty much a basic level programmer.... Nothing special about them.
It will hold you back otherwise.
To get jobs and business, in general, you have to have a recognisable "name". This is essential if you don't have a degree. It replaces the diploma at a later stages of your career. When you get to having 10 years of experience or a "name", only the government institutions ask for a diploma.
My advice:
contribute to free software / open source projects, and in doing so grow thicker skin while interacting with them, as needed.
Point to those contributions as you look for a job in a smaller company, hopefully closer to FOSS, and with a less formal hiring attitude.
Be ready to move.
In the absence of formal schooling to get you the interview, get a few certifications. A quick google search tells me there are certs specifically for Drupal. You could also pick up some generic certs like A+. Since you're a Linux guy you could also get something similar to a RCSE from redhat. They'll cost you a few bucks and might require a week or so of study (assuming you already know most of the info). But they'll spice up that blank resume a bit and are a heck of a lot quicker than going back to college.
Once you get the interview, then you can sell yourself based on your self taught experience.
From experience...I thought I would take the self-taught route. It is definitely the hard way to go. After working 8 years in the industry (I.T. consulting / network administration for small business) as a slave I would recommend you ditch whatever you are doing now and go to college or do what I am currently doing and work
40 hours a week (still working in I.T.) and go to college. It's not easy but anything worth attaining never is. Without the college degree people will instantly put a mark on your head as cheap labor and take advantage of you. I went from I.T. slave to a respected I.T. position at a good company. I would also highly recommend not being self employed. In this economy it is too much of a risk, especially if you have a family. If you are having difficulty finding a job there are numerous head hunting agency's that would love to help find you a position somewhere.
Maybe 1/3 of my CV is picked out of the air, I've never been caught out. How many employers actually bother checking that stuff? Just add a college degree to your CV and start applying. It will save yourself an enormous amount of wasted money and effort. Added security list a degree from a foreign country.
I think a lot of big companies won't look at you if you don't have a degree. It is a typical HR checkoff item and the dev manager may not even see your resume.
IF you are a 18 year old kid, you either take a chump change job at a small company and do $400 an hour quality work for $8.25 an hour and hope you don't work for a slave driver that will give you a crappy reference if you leave for better pay.
The long route is to prove yourself and create a "brand" online. Chris Prillio really does not know much about computers yet a LOT of people look at him as if he is an expert. It's because he hand crafted a brand for himself that is bigger than he is and he keeps it polished.
Finally. You are "self taught"... do you REALLY know something or do you think you know something? can you configure Cisco routers, understand TCP/IP completely that If I tell you a network scope you can give me the netmask? do you understand computer hardware far FAR better than the idiots at Best buy's Geek squad? Can you actually do something with the OS other than install apps? How about Active directory and Windows domain management on workstations?
IF you are "handy with puters" you are not employable, go get more education. And all of that is free. You can download Windows server enterprise edition and SQL server and all the goodies for free and use it for 30 days. then wipe the computers or VM's running it and reinstall again to learn the ins and outs of doing corperate Windows IT. if you look in the "dirty corners" of the internet you can also find cisco gear simulators that will let you have hands on Cisco configuration as well.
But you are supposed to buy those for nasty prices... It's actually cheaper to buy out of date used cisco gear if you really must stay legal.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I did the same thing in my life, except I went to college for about a year for a CS degree though I never finished. I think mostly if you dont have a degree they will look at job experience, if you don't have experience, be prepared to prove yourself. Ask an employer if they would be willing to let you sit with one of their top developers to prove that you know your stuff. Not only with that show initiative, but it will show that you are not afraid of working under pressure and the scrutiny of a experienced developer. This is my advice at least, and with this approach, I have never been turned down for job that I have interviewed for. You do have to be careful to pick jobs that aren't over your head though because it can also make you look rather silly if they are expecting something you aren't aware of.
Job #1: Get off your ass and try. You should have little problem getting a job; your post here is a good start for a CV. I'd interview you in a shot, except for the slight reservation I have that you're asking Slashdot how to go out and get a job. Write a CV and start sending it to people is the only way I know of to get hired. Stop worrying about rejection and go do it.
Contacts, the people you know.
You can learn IT and CS from many resources, University or College or Library or related.
That's not the important part.
The important part of going to college, is making contacts and connections and gaining somewhat more exclusive opportunities.
In other words, get some influential connections.
What I say to my college students in a class I do on CVs: a picture is worth 1000 words. In a job interview, a portfolio is worth a rocking CV. So prove your skills & worth by doing great work, and then taking credit for it. Maintain a virtual and paper portfolio (keep screenshots of websites you've developed, maintain web pages for modules you've authored, publish & print some image retouching or montages you've put together to show off GIMP skills. chill and zcomuto are spot on with their advice. Portfolios beat CVs every day.
Dave.
I was in the same boat as you, having had a decade of experience making web sites and programming for NSCA Mosaic, but with no schooling to speak of that was relevant, no-one in my home-town would take a second look at my resume. I moved to NYC (but know that SF is similar, regarding qualification judgements), and found that everyone I talk to in the tech industry cares about what you're capable of, not what's on your resume. Now I'm a director at a fortune 500, and teach at one of the most prestigious design schools in the country. I still don't have a degree.
Entry-level non-IT at a large corporation or entry-level IT at a small local company are going to be your quickest and easiest proving grounds to get something on your resume. There, unfortunately, really isn't any substitute for solid experience on your resume.
If you choose non-IT at a large corporation, it's likely you will have access to the internal HR system within about a year or so, and job availability will be abundant. At that point, the easiest hop will be into low-end of the MBA-heavy business side of your company where non-techie business school types will lean on your technical prowess in a major way. You'll build a reputation, and you'll do a lot of things that will work well as resume-fodder. From there, a jump into an IT heavy role and do what you're good at.
If you're lucky enough to land a job in entry-level IT at a small company, you won't really need my guidance. If you know you're stuff, it's smooth sailing once you get in.
Remember, resume, resume, resume...
The honest answer is wait for another bubble. When we have these tech spikes with shortages of labor is when the self-taught have a real leg up and can get the experience necessary to survive the down economies. Given the state of the current economy I would (if possible) invest in some formal education in an attempt to pad the education section of my resume a bit. It's all supply and demand. When supply of talent outweighs job demand it's tough to differentiate yourself without at least having the basics in place so they don't cull you out prior to interviewing you.
I don't have a degree.
I started programming at age 15, worked in a computer shop as a technician through high-school and got my first programming job during the high-tech bubble of 2000. I was 19 and had a bit of self-acquired java programming experience.
Then the market crashed. it was arguably MUCH worse then today's climate. I was a junior dev with 6 months "official" experience and no degree.
But i could talk, i could program and i was persistent. It took me 3 months to get a new job at lower pay but still a lot for my age.
Now, ten years later i lead a development team, i have written 3 major products from scratch and worked for several companies.
What i found was that my choice not to get a degree harmed my chances mostly with the larger firms. Smaller companies and especially start-ups care mostly about your skills and your experience and much less about your degree. I quit my last job during the crash of 2008 when companies were firing people left and right. i looked for a job for a total of 2 days. My current position and the one before that i got through contacts i made through the years.
It's that first job that is hardest to get. be prepared, be confident. Apply for a position you are slightly overqualified for.
Linked-in is your friend. Your business contacts and anyone you worked with and appreciates your skills can open doors that would be closed otherwise.
There's nothing more valuable then a personal recommendation from a respected contact. Ask your friends to help you. Even those who aren't in this field may know people that can help and their word can be just as valuable.
Your CV's never going to get past an HR droid.
Aim at people you know or small companies. Some small companies will interview you just for being local as long as your CV looks appropriate.
Be vague about your academics, eg: "school x, y no of subjects, z no of ABCs". Put the most recent stuff at the top of your CV. Make it project based. Highlight the buzzwords. Make sure there's a heavy sprinkle of "customer", "team" and "talked to".
Read this: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/10/your_cv/
I got my first systems administration job by going to a job fair. A local company (Silicon Engineering, nee Sequoia Semiconductor, now Creative Silicon, a division of CREAF) decided to appear and to hire me. The rest is history. Interestingly there was also a company there looking for people to help them with their uSPARC-based digital camera.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I never went to college, but grew up writing software. I ended up getting a job with a small company, eventually running their IT department, writing all the software, driving the company forward. Eventually I worked them into a position where to keep me they would have to give me some equity in the company (the point of the company is to eventually sell itself).
Answer: Just go find a job.
The problem is, while you may have the same skills as a college-taught programmer you don't have the little piece of paper to verify them. However, most people are finding that that little piece of paper doesn't necessarily convey these abilities either. You need to update your CV beyond just a paper format. Try submitting a link with your paper CV that can demonstrate your programming ability and highlight your creativity and capabilities. That way they don't just read about what skills you claim to have, they can see what you actually do. This'll help you rise to the top.
I like losing arguments, it just means that I can take your point and make it my own.
I work for a browser vendor, working on the other side of this. The market isn't as saturated as the web developer market (anyone can know how to use a WYSIWYG editor or HTML/CSS well enough to make a website and make a fairly small amount --- there aren't enough jobs at browser vendors to hire people who have little knowledge), yet there are certainly more applicants than there are jobs available.
I, like maybe 2% or so of other employees of browser vendors, don't have a degree. Ultimately, especially for a role in testing, problem-solving skills and analytical thinking are far more valuable than any degree. A CS/SE degree won't teach you those.
The people without degrees often started as interns (paid --- I can't think of any browser vendor that has unpaid internships), which does admittedly lessen the barrier to being hired, and once there it becomes easier to prove one's worth. Most of those people had been active in web standards communities before, many around the WHATWG (back in the days when the W3C still was almost entirely member-only mailing lists), though a few around the CSS WG. Why did that help? Well, think about who has an interest in employing people who know about web standards in depth: browser vendors. Who employs the majority of participants? Browser vendors.
Get involved in web standards groups. It'll help your knowledge of the subject, it'll look good for you to put on your CV for web development, and it could open up possibilities (like browser vendors, or various large enterprises that are involved in web standardization) that you may not have considered.
One method of proving your ability is to start at the bottom and work your way up. I had a very similar situation. My main job was not computers. I started "working" at several several ISP's that were started by friends. Two of these were startups and I was involved in everything from user support to configuring routers and services. I also did local work for some small businesses through word of mouth. I eventually built up something I could put on a resume that resembled real world IT experience. To move outside of the low/no pay positions at local ISPs, I had to downgrade to a tier 1/2 position at a large company, moved to another company doing tier 1/2 and after 5 years I have moved up to the senior network engineer position. If you are truly good at IT and it is a hobby and an interest of yours and you can stand above your piers, YOU WILL MOVE UP the IT ladder.
Other notes..
My original career was nuclear power and radiological controls. Overall I would probably be making more money had I stayed in that field but I had no interest in it. I paid down all of my debt and built up a savings that allowed me to get out of that and into something else I wanted to do which was IT. I was much happier during my first 10 years of doing IT work. As time goes on, I am looking at IT more and more as a job and less as an interest or hobby. In another 5 years my kids will be out of college, my house will be paid for and I'll have no debt, I'll be in my 40s and will move on to yet another career path. Right now my plans include being a door greater at Walmart or get into the construction/plumbing/electrical/HVAC trade, all of which I've dabbled with in the past and maybe I will start a company doing it. I'm sure the same things will apply to getting my foot in the door with IT. If you are good and start at the bottom, I'm sure I will move up and out on my own.
Programming in your basement is easy. Only a quarter (if that) of your classes for an actual degree are programming. All you mention are tools and languages, you're lacking tons of foundation and methodology. Sure colleges are in it to make money, but they are also in it to provide industry with what they are looking for. That includes the silly computer ethics, public speaking, etc, etc that most have to take.
Given: Debt gives employers leverage over employees. The contrapositive is also true: Debt freedom gives employees leverage over employers.
What employers are looking for are people with not only the skills acquired, but enough debt to make them to be as productive as possible with those skills. However, there is a 'sweet spot' and that is why credit checks are done. Too much debt means that individual will steal. Too little debt and that individual will be regarded a slacker. The plaque on the wall does not represent skills acquired alone, it represents the need to be motivated to produce, i.e. the right amount of debt.
One may ask "What about and individual who earned one's degree on a full scholarship? The vast majority of these stay in academia by reason of having to maintain their scholarship funding as well as not having the debt required to motivate productivity. By the time this individual graduates, his worldview has been radically altered to the point that said individual will express contempt for the private sector. Employers will look at this individual's credit history and want nothing to do with him since the individual has been 'shielded from market forces' for all of his/her life. These go into the public sector as bureaucrats.
One may ask "What about the H1B visaholder?" The lawful presence of the H1B visaholder in the USA is conditioned upon continued employment with the sponsoring employer. This is called LEVERAGE.
==//==
Have you considered moving? Do a search on craigslist by various cities and see where the Drupal jobs are. Then move there. It's completely possible that you're just not where the jobs are.
Knowing a bit of web design or how to create a website in Drupal does not make you a "Computer Geek". It makes you a self taught web designer.
"My immediate reaction is "WTF? What kind of moron doesn't make things 64-bit safe to begin with?" Linus
You need to have something to show for, regardless what you decide to do specifically. A degree from a decent school says that you've got a certain minimum education in lieu of actual experience. With increasing experience (and successful projects under your belt) it matters less and less whether you have a degree or not.
That said, if you want to do web design, then build a bunch of demo sites that show off what all you can do, in other words build yourself a portfolio that will not go away. Demonstrate style, variety, and quality. You'll have to demonstrate, too, that you listen to your clients, so you should have your demo sites answer a hypothetical client's specific needs. Be able to talk to potential clients about these needs and your approach/solution, thereby demonstrating that you're not a one-site-fits-all kind of designer.
And finally, you need to ensure that your name goes around. Recommendations (word of mouth) is what you need to generate, and lots of it.
--Udo.
It's neither wrong nor patronizing and if you'd read everything he said you'd understand that. No one is saying that only people with degrees are capable of setting long term goals and achieving them, but getting a degree is some evidence of having that ability. He even lists other ways that you might go about proving the same thing. Like it or not thing like degrees and certification are intangible benefits to those who have them. It doesn't mean you can't get a job without, it doesn't mean that you're going to get every job just because you've got a piece of paper or two, but for many (not all, but many) hiring managers a degree is a plus. In many cases, for good or ill, HR won't even consider people for some positions unless they have a degree.
Call it unfair if you wish. It doesn't change the facts. You can also go about it the way you have. You can market yourself relentlessly, make contacts, get your foot in the door by taking shit jobs and doing well at them. It's possible, but ironically takes a lot more effort and self discipline than just getting a degree, and in the end you're probably no better off. Maybe a bit worse.
I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
Having worked in various sized companies, from self-employed through 10, 20 and 500-1000 people, it became apparent to me that all businesses need:
1) Sales and Marketing
2) Accounting
3) A product
If you have no interest in 1) or 2), being self-employed is not for you. Also, when taking into account what you get paid for your "Product" as a coder, bear in mind the hours invested in Sales, Marketing, and Accounting for essentially zero compensation..
Word. When I started out doing coding-type projects, I was lucky enough to have some manager-type pimp me out and take care of the 1) and 2) for me. The only downside was that sometimes he oversold my capabilities... "X? Sure he's a pro at X -- (hey, learn X real quick!)" -- which led to some awkward moments meeting with the clients. But all-in-all it was a great "in" to that kind of work for several different sites that needed work/maintenance.
If you could toss together a pretty good buzzword-searchable public package for yourself at http://monster.com/ or the like, you'll pretty much be contacted by a string of headhunters who will try to help coach you and plug you in to a bunch of opportunities they have on their docket. Yeah, they'll take some overhead off the top, but you're probably happier not having to deal with that kind of schlepping that they do (at least not until you get older, more jaded, and more willing to look out after yourself :-P ).
"...many of which have gone under or are no longer accessible..."
I hope this will be taken in the spirit in which it is given. That having been said, the statement above gives me some cause to be concerned for a number of reasons.
1) In many cases (not all, but many), the website is largely the front face of an organization. Even when people shop bricks and mortar, they often google a place first. So this may be taken as:
a) The poor quality of your work contributed to the business going under?
b) The poor quality of your work lead to the website being replaced by something different (ie non-Drupal)?
c) Worst case scenario. The poor quality of your work lead to the the website being rebuilt (ie Drupal, but not your work)?
2) If there are not enough sites that you can point to in your portfolio that are still up and running (the only evidence that they existed at all), it may be taken as an indication that you don't really have as much experience as you think.
3) If you don't have a copy (even a development version) that you can put online somewhere as part of a portfolio, this might be taken as an indication of bad development practices.
I'm also concerned about: "...but decided NOT to do the traditional computer-nerd [thing]..."
Don't get me wrong, I am also largely self taught (in spite of an MEng, the most often used skill that I learned in school is from my grade 10 typing class). But, to be honest, the tone sounds a little condescending. So, let me ask the question: Are you an artist who knows some development (ie you make pretty interfaces but struggle with the code)? Are you a developer who just doesn't get the "computer-nerd" thing (and so may not get along with colleagues)? Are you something else with some development skills (pidgin holed into Drupal only projects)? Does your skill set revolve largely around coding, analysis, project management? I'd humbly suggest that you not communicate with prospective employers in a way that might insult them. Even if you're 100% right, you'll be right and unemployed.
Oh well, it's early and I've only had one cup of coffee yet. I hope there's something useful in there.
I know many people on slashdot may be against this, but you may consider joining the military. Our military does have computer programmers (go talk to a recruiter) in my experience, it would be a lot of working with contractors on software, and usually you can get job offers from the contractors as you finish your military obligation. It's also a great way to get experience.
My story sounds very similar to your own. I was a self taught geek who never went to college. I joined the Marines, got a good amount of work experience, and was offered a software developer job at a contractor upon getting out. I decided to use my Post 9/11 GI Bill to go to college instead though.
Even if you're a FT employee, you are always selling yourself -- to your one and only client. The only difference with self-employment is you wake up to this fact (or starve, go back to selling yourself during a FT employment interview) and may have more than once client at a time. Even some FT employees work two or more jobs to get by. Self-employment is similar.
Want to get excellent at sales (even if you're going to stay with FT employment)? Read and re-read: Socratic Sales.
A lot of people believe that start-ups succeed or fail because of cash (enough or too little). Certainly cash flow is king when it comes to staying in business. However, the reality is: You either have time or you have money. It takes time to develop a clientèle through carefully crafted product fulfillment and good service. Or you can accelerate this process through expensive advertising. You can burn through a lot of cash if you solve everything with it. Or you can be more creative and leverage time, including other people's time, and spend from less to zero. Time and persistence can pay big dividends.
So, hone your skills. Sell them. Watch your cash. Develop relationships (clients vs customers). Bank!
I've had the best luck with a particular staffing agency, that recognizes my skill sets, albeit self taught over the years, and found me an entry level Desktop support position with a defense contractor that in a years time quickly became network administrator. You need someone batting for you, while you figure out your options.
I'm self-taught. I got a lucky break when I found a small company that was prepared to test me (I interviewed with every engineer they had, and each tested my skill). I applied there directly (actually found them on CareerBuilder, but Craigslist would probably be better) rather than going through a recruiter. Only large companies can afford recruiters, and they're less likely to take a risk. Once you get an interview, be happy and confident, it goes a long way.
A lot of it is luck. In this economy a job may be harder to come by, I suppose you could try finding a non-profit that needs some help with a website or something, at least demonstrate that you can build something with application in the real world.
The right to protest the State is more sacred than the State.
I would suggest, as one piece of your credential "pie" you try to answer Drupal questions (or any other thing you might have experience with) at places like Stack Overflow
It might not directly get you hired, but you will build an online record of your knowledge, and you'll probably learn even more as well.
Good luck!
(I am self-taught, as well)
XKCD:Xeric Knowledge Comically Dispen
I actually had the same issue, I knew i was very competent with computers but had no experience to get me a job. So I put some white lies on my CV, nothing too outrageous I knew I could back up my psuedo experience with my ability and demonstrate it if required, and I got a mate of mine to act as a reference, turns out i didn't need him. Anyway long story short, once I got the job I stuck at it for a few years to get the real experience i needed, after all once you are in the profession, qualifications count for just about nothing. Tom
In the rest of the world, where you can get a repuatable degree/diploma, for $20K or under, it's often worth it. But in the US, it's about 5x more expensive than the rest of the world, so you really have to determine whether or not it's worth it. This is particularly the case in many IT fields, where there simply isn't much of a relevant degree or diploma to speak of. If you're going to spend $50-$100K on a degree, you're going to have to make the personal decision as to whether or not it's going to pay for itself. Maybe it will, but at what cost? Are you going to have to live ultra-frugal for 15 years to make it happen?
IMO, University degrees in the states simply aren't worth it, especially when it sounds like it really doesn't get you anywhere (in 95% of cases).
I was in same boat but am constantly expanding my skillset. Recently I jumped ship from LAMP to Java with Groovy/Grails and couldn't be happier; it's the Java stack fro web dev that I have always wanted and it is enabling me to expand my Java skills at the same time. I also have been working with SOLR and HTML5 canvas tag doing game dev.
People who get hired are those with large toolkits and skillsets. It doesn't matter whether you went to school or not; what matters is what you know and what you can do.
I'm not sure about that. All too often, when I ask a specific question I get solution to some problem I don't have, or when I explain what I'm trying to do, I'm asked why I would like to do that in the first place.
Perhaps people are trying to encourage you to follow ESR's advice of describing your goal so that they can understand the step.
(Cause, you know, before asking I actually do a google search first, so when I ask something it's often not trivial.)
ESR also says you can sometimes get more helpful replies if you tell people what queries you've already used unsuccessfully.
Drupal is one of those skills everyone wants, but so few people specialize in. Especially if you can do some of the more advanced api stuff. It's in very high demand right now. Look towards the middle of the country. I believe VML (and similar companies) is always hiring Drupal guys.
I'm writing this with 11 years of working experience in IT field without any education whatsoever. Things I suggest to consider:
- Send lots and lots and lots of job applications. Put a lot of effort into them, since you don't have a conventional application anyway by not having a CV, you can try a more personal approach. This is quite easy, but time-consuming and depressing - I've sent over a hundred job applications and received a response to only one of them. It said "no". But eventually, I found a job.
- As suggested in other posts, work on your portfolio and advertise it in places like linkedin. This means taking jobs for little or no money and putting a lot of effort into them, so you have something to prove your skill with. And not just skill, also ability to work with people. A web designers' job is less than half technical, majority revolves around dealing with the customer's ever-changing desires.
- Always work on your skills. Without a degree, you'll have to have something else that's better than people with a degree. At least for me, it's skill. I have no trouble dealing with kernel level C code, while I've never even worked as a programmer. Hint: in your case, if you're good at dealing with asshat customers, that's a really good skill, too.
- Don't let people bring you down who say you are a moron who should just get a degree. The thing is, they've spent half their lives getting a degree and it absolutely infuriates them to find out that someone made it through without doing the same. Those who say your skill cannot be assessed without a degree are just tweebs who don't know how to do job interviews properly.
- If you are still considering some proof in paper form, try to look for courses and certifications. I've found these to be completely worthless for myself as such, but they seem to have some reassuring effect in a CV.
Instead of running your own business. Then you don't need to provide your quality and skills to anyone, and it can make more money in the long run as you are not limited to your salary and don't have to fear getting fired. If you know web-design and running Drupal, then start to work with those.
^^^ This is an uninformed post.
This is a tremendous and terrible simplification. Let's suppose that the OP runs his own business? Now he has to be a salesman in addition to being a developer. He still has to sell his technical skills to prospective clients. Barring the typical mom-and-pop shops that need some help in getting a web page up, most companies will still require some sort of technical "affidavit" (and for better or worse, many still rely on academics as a filter.)
You can be a consultant and go 1099, register yourself with a LLC and sell your consulting services to a larger consulting firm. Still, the consulting firm will ask for a technical affidavit, and the clients the consulting firm will pitch you for will also ask for a technical affidavit. As I said in the 5th sentence of the paragraph above, the chances to avoid questions on self-taught skills are still limited for a self-employed developer, not unless he narrows the clients he caters to (and ergo, narrows the opportunities to do business.)
For the OP and for people in his position, it is really hard to sell yourself without a diploma. It is sad, but true. In fact, even some diplomas that used to have some value do not help anymore. Case in point, me. I started working with just a AA degree (and later worked my way up to a 4-year degree and then grad school.) Back then when I started, it was feasible to get a good development job with just a AA/AS or even with nothing but experience. But that's not the case anymore.
OTH, I think it is a good thing that you are looking at conferences like DrupalCon. Get in there and network, network, network. Build your CV indicating the jobs you have done. Moreover, open a github or mercurial account and create stuff of your own (pet projects and mockups) that show case what you can do. So that when people ask you, you can tell them "look here".
Once you develop your CV, and your professional network, lack of formal education becomes less of an issue. The problem is to get the ball rolling, and I'm afraid that in this time and age, the odds are against you. It is not impossible, but it is a heck of a lot difficult than 10-20 years ago.
Regardless of how you proceed, I would suggest (if not urge) you to get a degree. If you have the skills, a degree might or might not help improve them. But it will certainly help in opening a lot more doors. And in the end, job hunting is a numbers game. Good luck.
I'm a network engineer. I have been in the IT industry for nearly 30 years. I have no college degree. I have worked as a programmer, Network administrator, computer forensic investigator. I have worked with Microsoft products, Novell, Linux, Unix, HP, Cisco, 3Com, etc. etc. I have a high school diploma and that is it. I took a few courses in college with no degree intentions.
First, I want you to ignore all the ney sayers that say you need a formal education. Those that think you do usually have very little or no experiance in the IT field. That field is very different from all others in a couple of ways.
The IT industry is experiance driven. I repeat. The IT industry is EXPERIANCE DRIVEN.
The fact is the universities would love to be able to corner that market as well, but it changes too quickly. By the time they have the classes setup, it is already out dated. This is the primary reason why you will see universities focus on theory, or management of IT. Or the classes they have are the very basics, because the basics don't change as fast. Corporations that develop the technologies such as Microsoft, Novell, Cisco, etc. etc. all provide their own classes. It is part of their income, and so they are not so quick to release that control to any external education system, and who knows it better than those that created the products and services?
There are some employers that will require you to have a degree in that field, but those employers either don't really have a grasp on the industry, or they havea poor business model and are already hurting themselves. Many businesses will pay more if a person has a degree in their respective field, but I am a believer that a person should get paid for results, not a piece of paper. Results put money in my pocket, where a piece of paper on the wall just puts holes in the wall.
In a large organization, or one that specializes in IT, you will be given a test for the job you are applying for. A written test to be sure, but often a physical test as well. A network engineer such as myself will be handed a box of parts and told to build a server. Those that truely know how to do it, will pass the test. Those that are self taught, know it because they love it, and are good at it. Those that went to college had to struggle, and probably are not a passionate about it, so they take longer, or are totally unable to pass the test.
Classrooms are very different from the real world. Either you can do the job, or you can't and all the degrees in the world will not make the difference in the IT industry.
My suggestion is this.
1. Look through the job postings, and see how many call for experiance versus those that call for a degree. Some will call for one or the other.
2. Don't be afraid to apply to the position if you think it fits you.
3. If they challange you to explain why they should hire you, just explain that you may not have that piece of paper, but you can produce results, and that's the bottom line isn't it?
4. If they are still not sure, then tell them to test you.
I can tell you, I get 5 to 10 job offers per year, dispite the economics, and I don't have to take a pay cut because of it. The industry is growing, especially in the field of Information Security.
You chose a great field to be in. Take care
I have worked in the web programming business since 1999 and am also a self started person, I took 2 years of comp sci in college.. and ended up working instead of finishing. I have been doing it as a career and am pretty successful at it.
Here are the caveats of doing so:
1. you are going to need to start off in an entry level position and work that for a few years. if you are older this is the hard part.. with no enterprise level experience no one will want to hire you. you will need to rock the $13/hour arena for at LEAST a year.. this is what keeps older self starters out of the game usually.
2. DO NOT BE AFRAID TO LEARN NEW TECHNOLOGIES! I have met a TON of self-started PHP programmers.. the most common thing i hear is "I only know procedural style programming" that person never ever ever ever gets hired by me at least. Learn OOP in php now.. learn frameworks like code igniter, cake and kohana, zend, etc. read some books on SQL queries and learn how to do things like stored procedures, learn the differences between inner/outer left/right joins.. basically fill in the holes in your knowledge that you have by not going to college.. teach yourself data structures and algorithms.. become an expert at regular expressions. Read books on data structures and algorithms.. learn a real language like Java or C# or C++. Having gone to college but not completed, I have the experience to know what college actually teaches as far as programming goes. Learn the curriculum of a college CS program and go through the exercises.. learn data structures and algorithms, mess with assembly. You are going to need to constantly keep yourself updated on new tech so get used to doing this.. you'll be doing it for the rest of your life.
3. Work at making your resume look better than someone with a degree. At this point in my life i have SO MUCH experience no one even cares that I don't have a degree. Mention all the off-shoot technologies you have worked on. make sure to add keywords to your resume like OOP and agile development method.. basically mention things so that a prospective employer will realize that you are past the college level of programming as a self starter (if you arent at this level, see #2)
4. Realize what you are getting yourself into. Computer programming is a tough job. You need to constantly be keeping yourself updated on new technologies in the career path that invents new technologies. In the last 6 years I have probably learned a completely new language, program, technology, etc at least once every two months. It is constant reading (usually on your own time), learning, practicing.. If you arent the type of guy who is constantly doing work on your own.. you will not cut it in computer programming. You need to devote a not-small portion of your free time to being involved in things. Going to developers meetings, reading books on project management or learning new languages. working unpaid overtime to meet deadlines. this could really be a horrible profession for someone who isnt in love with the job.
I'm a coder actually, not a designer so I would modify Drupal and similar CMS'es back when they were young (remember working with the first versions of Drupal). I never had any formal education either.
What I did was basically go up to a couple of local businesses (webshops and so on) and asked them if they needed any help. And lo-and-behold they needed someone for a small project that eventually grew into bigger projects. I eventually quit for a "stable" job but it was well-paying (the hourly wages) and granted me a lot of freedom since it wasn't full time but it was enough for me.
As far as some of the skills you should probably have besides your generic designer skills (these were my skills back then): PHP and Perl (especially if you're going to be modifying Drupal modules), other CMS'es, Linux/LAMP setup and maintenance, e-mail servers, site management tools (such as Ensim, Plesk etc.), networking (TCP/IP basics), how to secure an insecure system, basic understanding of firewalls and routers and knowing how to work on a Mac. Also have a recommendation letter, references and a portfolio.
These days you probably want to add virtual servers and hosted services (buzzword of the day: cloud, SaaS, ...) as well as AJAX, JavaScript, HTML5 and other client-side goodness (which weren't as prevalent back then, we barely had Flash). Throw yourself out there, make sure you're visible on all kinds of sites. I got offers through the old sourceforge jobs section (don't know if it still exists) and through several other small, very directed sites while I never got anything through the generics like Monster.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
Yeah, I know, it just sounds wrong. I had no high school degree, no college, but knew what I was doing inside out....Made up a couple jobs, had them call my buddy for the job reference, eventually got a Helpdesk spot, got bumped up to the Network team, moved through a few different companies, and now I am, and have been a Senior Network Admin for years. My resume built itself and now I have a serious work history behind me for the future if necessary......
I was always thinking how the heck on Earth the Drupal (one big mistake) appeared... Now I know the answer.
One word: Luck.
If you want something repeatable... sorry. There isn't one.
A degree or higher education will not guarantee you a job, but it will, at least, maximize your chances of somebody recognizing what you have to offer a company. Without it, your resume/CV will likely only be destined for the round file... and probably not even actually read by the people who make hiring decisions.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
QA
Join mailing lists, like the TFUG (Tucson Free Unix Group) and LVLUG (Las Vegas Linux Group) (Find ones near where you live, of course)
People who actually work at companies often post informal job notices in mailing lists.
It's also a good way to get to know people who are in the industry.
It also helps to get involved and offer solutions to questions posted that you know the answers to.
XKCD:Xeric Knowledge Comically Dispen
It's pretty easy:
If you don't have a degree, you need a pretty impressive portfolio to back up your claims about your skill. Not just what you did but also at which positions in how many and how large a team you worked. If you do have a good drupal project portfolio with neat project descriptions and demo installations to show for, then you're top of the line when it comes to joining a drupal shop.
All else is pretty much the same (degree or not) and is covered by the usual advice already given here. Although, as someone who's freelance in IT and has no degree, I might add that I find it considerably easier in getting a job through personal contact than by sending out applications. And I hear it's pretty much the same for every other field-expert today looking for a job, regardless whether they are self-taught or have a degree.
2 cents from a freelance web-and-software-developer.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
That's the difference between suggesting and proving.
There are certainly circumstances where it is no fault of your own that you don't have the degree. But from an employer's point of view, it's not the way to bet. All in all, it is more likely that someone who doesn't a degree has less dedication and commitment than someone who does. This is true even if there are some exceptions--it's a statement about the odds, not a statement about what is true every time.
As others mentioned, you might actually do better starting your own business. You have to be pretty extroverted and actually go looking for clients, but it is something to consider. Building a social network of recruiters and other programmers would help a lot too. If there are any user group meetings in your area (Linux, Java, C++, etc,) you could hang out at those and find out what the other people there do for a living. A placement is worth tens of thousands of dollars to a recruiter so they already want to be your friend, and they'll respond to a positive attitude. Talk to several on a regular basis, even when you're employed.
It's more of an effort starting out that way, but once you have 5 or 6 years of experience somewhere they stop asking for a degree so much. After 10 the subject almost never comes up anymore. I've got 22 in the industry with no degree and it doesn't come up at all anymore. The CS classes I did take when I was younger are so out-of-date now that it doesn't really matter anyway. I'm pretty sure those three semesters of COBOL aren't helping me anywhere anymore. Knowing data structures is, though.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I am in the same boat. Learned computer hardware as a hobby. Fixed family and friend's PCs, started networking houses, and then small businesses. Moved into the corporate world on the lowest rung of the ladder. Working a helpdesk and paying dues, and just kept working up from there. If you are a hard worker and have the technical know how and problem solving abilities and can communicate with people outside of the industry you will be fine. I have worked my way up to the manager of service delivery for a large company. Only now am I looking back to get a degree, and it wont be in computer science.
Really depends where you are. Some parts of the country are much pickier about degrees than others. Most degrees are worthless these days, and I think employers usually understand that; unless there's some kind of company religion that requires it. Not having a degree is not generally a handicap, if you know what you're doing. The whole thing depends on your ability to talk about what you do, and sound like you know what you're doing in an interview. That's true no matter what your education level. If you can make someone who may or may not be an expert think you're an expert (which you should be)... then you've done the job. The need for a convincing portfolio depends on whether you're selling yourself as a designer, a networker, a programmer. The problem is that while you can do all of these things, you're going to need to come up with a compelling way to sell them one at a time in a way that makes sense. The best advice though: Work on the resume. Hire a professional resume writer, and spend $500 on it. That'll give you a good base to work with in this search. You want something called a "Path of life" style resume. The longer the better. Even if you have to go into extreme detail with every position.
This signature has Super Cow Powers
Start your own gig, or come work for me...
We're a 360 degree tech shop with a primary focus on Drupal web dev and hosting.
We'll be at DrupalCon Denver as well.
Xelacomp.com, get ahold of me.
I went the same way with my career. I taught BASIC in high school. I didn't get my first computer related gig until I was 19. I worked very hard to gain and demonstrate my knowledge to my prospective employer. It took a great deal of work to get my foot wedged into that first door. I've since found that real world experience is cherished as much as certifications and degrees with many employers. If you have demonstrable knowledge and a good work ethic you can build a career. Having examples of you work, a portfolio, as suggested previously is a good thing. Industry certification is also a great way to show you know what you're talking about. You really need to get and keep that first job for at least two years and walk away with a good reference. Demonstrating a good work ethic is just as important to most employers. An unproductive genius is no good to them.
As a hiring manager, and former developer of 13 years, I can offer a few thoughts.
The best thing you can do is leverage your network for not only leads, but personal references. I'll take a personal reference over a buzz word laden resume every time. Work to build your network. Ask your network for leads into companies you may be interested in. If they don't know somebody, perhaps somebody they know does. Local interest groups and technical societies (IEEE for instance) are an easy way to build your network as well. Recruiters are another great way to get in the door. They have established personal relationships with the hiring managers and can make an introduction for you. You might end up working contract but once you're in the door you can start working on a full time position if you're interested.
If you're sending resumes in cold then focus on learning an emerging, but hot, "new" technology. HTML5 comes to mind right now as a good example. And definitely make sure your resume is effective. You have the first half of the first page to hook the hiring manager's interest. Make sure the most important information about how you can benefit your prospective employer is front and center.
When you score an interview you're on the toughest part. Research the company you're about to interview for. Google is your friend! Know a little about their products, their business plan, and other basic tid bits. Make sure you can comment on how your skill set would benefit their products if nothing else. If you have the name of the hiring manager see if you can find them on LinkedIn, and Google their name to see if they have any other info posted about them. If it's a small company then you might do a little homework on the CEO or founder. For all you know you might interview with them. Don't be afraid to ask questions on materials you find in the interview. We often see Facbook and Google used by employers to check on a potential candidate. Here's your chance to turn the tables.
While it's good to answer technical questions to prove your mettle during an interview, at the end of the day I can teach skills. What's more, the skills I need now are probably not the skills I'll need in two years. I want someone who can clearly learn fast, is motivated to look for better ways to do things, and is generally wants to grow beyond the person I'm hiring today. This is tough; look for ways to show you're more than the skills you have today. You have the smarts and the motivation to go further. Be confident, but not cocky.
Another thing about interviews, don't be a cardboard cutout. I have no interest in working with a card board cutout every day, neither do my employees. Don't be afraid to be enthusiastic, show some humor, and demonstrate some personality. Look around for clues as to what your interviewer's own interests and hobbies are. If you see a connection then casually ask about that signed baseball on the desk, or those weekend fishing trip photos. Strike up a little side conversation. Make sure you don't let that side conversation dominate the interview (a minute or two at most) but don't be afraid to spend a minute sharing common interests. Trust me when everyone sits down to review the stack of interviews at decision time you will be remembered.
Just a few thoughts...
Most of the time they do not pay very well, and because of this have to hire what they can get for the money. Because of this you can prove in the interview that you have value from your time being self taught. They also generally are understanding of mistakes, and you can move ahead in your career quickly. This will build your resume up for a job that pays better. Your time there can also spent working towards a degree if needed. Even an AS can help you advance.
Without credentials, you're going to find it very hard to get a job. I wouldn't hire a programmer who didn't have some kind of university degree in computer science or a related field.
As others have said, one option is to go out on your own. It's not easy to start a business and it's not for everyone, but it can be extremely rewarding, both financially and emotionally. I started my own business 12 years ago as a one-person consulting shop. I was lucky enough to be on good terms with several former employers, so I had an immediate client base. Consulting was fun, but labour-intensive. It's also really hard to estimate costs until you have a year or two worth of experience.
Since then, my company has morphed into a product company with 8 employees. I could never go back to working for someone else. :)
You have to know how to present yourself and your skill set in a way that's appealing. You hve to show that you know the tech and more importantly that you're teachable to the point where it more than makes up for your lack of corporate experience.
For example, nobody outside slashdot cares about Gimp skills, even mentioning it paints you as a "freetard" it's bad enough that you don't have corporate experience, but to top it off, you're going to preach software? That's the impression that is evoked, so you market yourself as having Photoshop skills.
And don't assume everyone knows (or cares) what an AMP stack is, spell it out. You know Apache, PHP and Mysql. You know Javascript, do you use any of those fancy frameworks? Mention them. Mention that you know Linux.
And most importantly, put of a portfolio of your work. A strong portfolio will more than make up for a flimsy resume, however the best CV on earth won't score you any points in the face of an underwhelming portfolio. If you're going after a position in design, what you're capable of far, far outweighs where you've worked or who you've worked for. you have Photoshop skills? Don't just tell them, SHOW them what you can do. You're good with Drupal? SHOW them just how good you are. when push comes to shove, the proof is in the pudding and seeing is believing.
And having learned Basic at 12 is something you want to keep for the interview, it looks desperate and like filler on a CV itself, same with being personable or whatever, don't tell them, show them.
Same story. Got a commodore 64 when I was 3. Learned to read by playing computer games on it. (Project Space Station was an extremely wordy game). So I spent my childhood learning on my own. Didn't want 40k of student loan debt, and I was never all that fond of school anyway.
Anyway, after high school (1999), I moved to a bigger city and got a temp job in the accounting department of a company (data entry). Many of the tasks I was given were automatable, so I automated them. A role in Systems Support for the company opened up, and the head of the accounting department recommended me. I worked for that company for over a year before I moved back home, and was lucky to get an IT position at a company here which was helped largely because I had that one job of real industry experience. Fast forward to 2011 and I am now the IT Manager for a small manufacturing company.
In my case, it happened to all work out, and now I have 12 years experience, I am sure things will be fine. A couple things to note though: more and more jobs no longer say 'University Degree or Relevant Experience' and simply that a relevant degree is required. Also, I got paid less than I would have if I had a degree for years. I make a good wage now, and I feel that the lack of student loan debt has more than made up for a few years of below average pay.
Travel back to 1995 and you're golden. Anyone that knew what a three-finger-salute was got $50k/yr starting.
-- I have a private email server in my basement.
To all you front-end web developers: When you get stuck on a back-end problem, gimme a shout and I'll have you looking smart in no time.
The real trick to landing a job in this situation is who you know.
I agree here. Recently I went to a meet-up of hackers and small business owners. I met so many different people from different fields of business. I wouldn't have known about this meet-up if it wasn't for me knowing a few people in a small-business start-up fund. They got me connected to these others, so now I have a stack of cards from different businesses that need the technical folks.
I'm self-taught with no 4-year degree. This is what I did.
I got "general" IT experience. I got a job with a small company (less than 10 employees) where I was the staff geek. While not in my official job description, I built PCs, set up networks, designed MS Access applications, and built a company website. I created a resume where I emphasized this and not my "real" job.
I then leveraged my MS Access skills to get a serious database development job in PeopleSoft / Oracle. I'm now a .Net development manager.
You will not enjoy neglecting your first love, but it's important to demonstrate that you can design and support projects and systems from inception to user acceptance. And you will become a better IT person for it. When your website is down, it's always good to be able to have an intelligent argument with the network engineer. :-)
Just keep in mind you've chosen the hard route. It will require patience. Most IT managers understand that experience is more important than education or certifications. Especially with major changes in technology every couple of years. However, they don't have the time to sort through thousands of resumes, so they count on human resources (HR) to do that. HR is the gatekeeper and HR's job is to keep THEIR joibs. If you don't have a college degree, you will not even get through the HR resume syndicate without 5+ years of experience. The only alternative is to attend conferences and user group meetings. Be social, friendly, and outgoing: an opportune meeting with a developer or manager may get you over the wall HR has built.
P.S. SAVE ALL YOUR CODE. You may need to do a demo. Make a website with some examples of your work.
When I went looking for my first job after college, the career counselor told me something which I didn't get to use but will never forget. Volunteer. You start by finding a company that does what you are interested in doing. Then you send them your resume making sure to note your self taught skills(but you don't need to mention that they are self taught, just that you have experience). Finally, in your cover letter you express your interest in volunteering for them for 3-6 months. The fact that they won't have to pay you will give them the opportunity to meet you and see your skills without taking as much risk. You can do it part time since they don't have to pay you anyway and still work a somewhat regular job on the side(though working hours may be strange so you'd need a flexible job).
After the 3-6 months you have a few things going for you. First, you have your foot in the door giving you the opportunity to try to get a job with the company who already knows you do good work. Second, you now have something to put on your resume. Finally, you have contacts in the field. These are all the things you need to get yourself a job in the field and it just takes a little monetary sacrifice. Heck, if you're good and they know it they might offer you the job long before the 3-6 months comes up. Good Luck!
Contacts.
You need to advertise your skills, you need to know people who think you are skilled and can/will recommend you.
Work experience is exactly altered version of this. Because someone has hired you and paying you money they are indirectly telling you have some skills.
If you are offered a job, the next thing is ok work contract. Because of lack of formal training, work experience and/or contacts you may like to try to be entrepreneur. Good contacts are even more important in business and you need different skillset working alone or building a company (networking, selling, business/management skills => customers) and you need enough money too (lawyers (contracts between clients/companies), equipment, accounting, hiring..).
Hate to tell you this but if you want to do corporate/employee based work, you'll likely have to start at the bottom and get something solid on your resume. I'm in same boat; futzing with computers since late 70's, no degree, free lance work in 90's. I finally took a 1 year contract job with Honeywell (email support) and once that was on resume, was able to get more contract/corporate gigs and now, after 15 years, am finally doing work I like (cluster server admin). So, should I have finished up my degree back in early '90's instead of taking the (at the time) easy money? Yeah, probably. But hey, it's all about Journey, right?
I drank what? -- Socrates
Take the money you would have spent going to DrupalCon, walk down to your local Junior College, Community College or VoTec and sign up for Econ 101 and if you can find it, Introduction to Engineering. Tech skills are good and all, but the ability to step back and understand why your project is important to the business and how it fits in to the rest of the company and the projects around it are what separates the really good developers from the code-grunts.
I'm not saying you need a 4 year degree, or even an associates, but having that backing will help you in ways you can't even imagine right now.
Go to school.
I was a self-taught guy, and for years it got me nowhere. I knew all of those technologies that you mentioned, and even built some computer labs from scratch. But the pay was still not even close to enough. I even ended up working in a field completely unrelated to technology. Now 5 years later I'm back in college getting that CompSci degree that I should have gotten when I was 21 or 22.
Even if you are a code whiz, and a math whiz there are still a lot of things you won't learn (quickly) unless someone shows you. University will also help you learn and improve faster, since whenever you run into a roadblock, you can just go ask someone. In your position I'm sure that you've run into those problems that take days to solve, just because you're relying on yourself to answer those questions.
University CompSci is fun too. You're surrounded by nerds who are into the same stuff as you. (Coding, webdesign, math etc.)
Check out the mission of http://www.hackersforcharity.org/
"Hackers for Charityis a non-profit organization that leverages the skills of technologists. We solve technology challenges for various non-profits and provide food, equipment, job training and computer education to the world's poorest citizens." You can get killer resume bullets in exchange for your help/support with projects. Very worthwhile project.
1. You need 2-3 years experience. Join the USAF. Low end jobs. Self driven project. Probably doesn't matter but you need to show a solid 2-3 years in something. 2. Go to school even if you don't plan on a degree. That will reflect well on you that you are pursuing education. 3. Be grateful for any tech job at the beginning of your career. They won't fit what you want to do but showing consistency and excellence in those jobs will look good. 4. Be willing to relocate to areas that aren't so saturated or just have more tech openings. 5. Learn to interview. Takes practice. Good luck.
... but you need to go back to school. If you don't have the math skills, you are going to be seriously limited. Furthermore, the lack of a degree is going to be a ceiling that will be extremely difficult to crack.
Furthermore, the engineering and project skills are the key to doing more than just being a code monkey, and being able to rise up to the next level, where you are doing more design and architectural work. Which is like coding, but on a bigger scale. But for this, too, you need the math - you can't do, for example, redundancy requirements analysis without at least some math background.
Like you, I too was self taught. I was writing C code professionally before I went back and got my degree. I thought, I'm really good at this, why should I get the degree? Bottom line is that I was foolish and arrogant, and would be even further along in my career if I had gotten the degree sooner.
Check your premises.
If the lack-of-degree is blocking you, go get a degree.
In order to get a job, you must be what employers want. If employers want people with degrees, then you need one. If employers want a specific skill set (instead of a degree), then obtain that skill set and market yourself as having it.
There seems to be a disparity between the skill sets that most technicians have and the attributes that employers are looking for. Employers post jobs and get few responses, many of them being wildly mis-matched from what the posting listed. Plenty of talented technicians are looking for work and not finding it. The supply isn't well-matched with the demand.
Read the job postings, determine what employers are asking for, become what they want, then sell yourself.
I have been a self taught geek and managed to make it in IT. However I started doing it professionally (getting paid by a real company to work a real network) in 1996. At this point, I think you're about 15 years too late. The days of getting jobs based on merit and the ability to do the work are past. When I started, I was some what unique because most people did not have real world skills. Companies would hire whoever they could.
Now there are colleges that are turning out kids with all of the skills that companies are looking for. Those skills are backed by coursework and projects to demonstrate proficiency with the subject matter.
The only constructive advice I have is to develop a portfolio. With so many qualified people out of work and looking for jobs, no employer is going to hire you because you say you know something. You have to prove it. You need something to show an employer to demonstrate that you have experience with your skill set in the real world.
The interesting thing for me was that the description in the article was an excellent CV. We have had many discussions here about whether a Computer Science Degree really prepares you for the IT industry, and in my opinion they are at best a primer. I am also "unqualified", but have made a successful career in IT. I have also been making hiring decisions for several years in several organisations.
When you get past the skill set required what I am looking for is independence in terms of being able to take a task or feature and deliver it without overt oversight. Are you able to analyze a requirement, come up with a solution, and deliver it? Do you have professional disiplines? I'm talking about use of version control, working inside a team environment.
One way of getting exactly these kinds of skills is through open source teams. Open source provides a low barrier to entry for those looking to make their mark. It will give you excellent practical experience, that in my book is approximately double the value of commercial experience because it shows commitment and passion for software development.
In short the original description above reads better than most CV's I get across my desk. University qualifications do play a part, but not as much as you might think.
This! Got a nice, easy going Mac support job at a college where I was quickly able to help the Sun admin and the network admin. Afterwards, they had no problem putting assistant network admin/system admin on resume. Sure, didn't pay great and no chance of promotion but was most laid back work environment I've seen. Oh yeah, most places offer free tuition in place of decent pay. Can finish up a degree if you have time or at least pick up some free certs.
I drank what? -- Socrates
I'm a director of a software development company and when we need someone we usually start with a staffing company like Tech Sys or Pinnacle (pinnacle1.com) to find us candidates. Often we prefer contractors who are willing to be hired down the line so we don't lose a good employee, but can let them go if it's not a good fit. You can also test drive the company before coming on full-time. Decide if you're willing to travel, relocate, etc before accepting a contract as both are often required depending on where you live. Also, being willing to travel will increase your chances of finding something, but think about the financial aspects of that and make sure the contract is for enough money to make it worth it if travel costs aren't included in the contract. Let both the staffing company and the employer know you're willing to be hired as a full-time employee and that's the only type of work you're looking for. This is important as this often dictates the terms between the two companies and a full-time position most likely isn't possible without a cooling off period, unless the contract states it. A cooling off period basically means after your contract ends you cannot be hired by the employer for 3-6 months. You can work with multiple staffing companies to increase your chances of finding a good job.
Rather than depending on a cold-read of your resume, you should rely on colleagues to recommend you. Work your network, use LinkedIn (or other social networking sites) to find out who you know who knows someone where you want to get hired. Use your connections to find out who the hiring manager is and route your cover letter and resume around the initial HR screen.
... back in the go go 90's. It was a good gig for a while, but I got bored with it, topped out on income, saw outsourcing transforming my perceived role from genius to janitor and went back for a CPE degree. It really showed up the fact that I hadn't know what the hell I was doing before, and the only thing that had been making me look good was the spectacular incompetence of my competition.
Now I have a new company, and make 3d games, which I had previously thought was way beyond my reach.
College dragged me into realms of study I would have neglected, the boring, theoretical stuff that now serves as a foundation for my work, and makes me able to learn new stuff much, much more easily. It greatly expanded the depth, satisfaction, and earning potential of my career, and I got to ogle hot young chicks for a few years in the bargain.
To get some basic credentials for the HR types, enroll in a web designer certificate course at your local community college. If you have taught your self well enough, you will blow through it and maybe pick up a thing or two while you are at it. Next, try getting a web design job with a local college or university. They are more forgiving as to who they hire because they can't afford to hire for top notch skills or experience. You'll get better than decent benefits, OK pay, and get the experience you need to move on. If you're smart, you'll take some college classes/get a degree in web design while you are working there. Typically you can take classes for free if you work for a school. From there you'll be on equal footing with the rest of the web design crowd. To stand out, you'll need to land some gigs for high profile clients or prove your worth with the latest technologies and industry trends.
kind of like the moderation system
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Why would I want to tell you how to compete against me for my job?
I think it's also a matter of what sort of company you are willing to work for. Small businesses are likely more willing to talk to you just because you get a recommendation than a very large company. For a well known company, the problem isn't really finding qualified candidates but having enough time to sort through all the applications. They can afford to make having a degree a strict requirement because they'll still have hundreds of resumes on that pile.
when you pick a job (good luck btw, in this economy its quite hard to get a job) make sure its something you enjoy, for you do NOT want to be stuck with a job you do not like.... good luck!!
I know it sounds simple.. but, just go for it.. and you will probably succeed quicker that you think, and what most are telling you here.
- get into what is 'hot'.. there may be a lot of competition, but there is ALWAYS room for someone good.
- try to market those that have money.. like big businesses.. or the rich.. they ALWAYS are looking for someone who is good, and honest.. AHND.. they (usually) don't mind paying a fair price for your work. Also volunteer (your skills) to the poor and needy.. it WILL come back to you..
- work on both long and short term projects. The short ones, to get you quick cash, regularly, and a big/unique one that will take months or years to do,.. but will help kick your income into six or seven digits.
- always try to keep your appointment (schedule) book BLANK.. this way, if you ever need to do or see someone important, you will have the time slot open. ie. if you want to be an executive.. then act like one.
- don't give up on school.. and at least getting some certs.. they are not that hard or expensive.. and will only help when you are going for a big contract or a second 'regular' job, while building your business.. and building your confidence. It helps you feel better about yourself, while shutting the mouths of those who act like it means everything.
- it's true.. some people have done everything right.. and still always fail.. others.. do everything wrong, and can't loose...sooo, read the last two bullet points carefully..
- try to have a partner or two.. depending on how much money you need for equipment, marketing, etc.. this way, you can share the bad times... plus, you'll have someone who has a vested interest in giving good advice. However, if you don't need or like this idea tooo much, then no biggy.. just expect to handle everything yourself.
- most of all.. HAVE FUN.. play it like a game. OR ELSE you will become too pensive.. tooo serious.. and it will show when you deal with customers, distributors.. everyone around you.. sooo, *if you need to*.., make sure you have a second job or income, to take care of your baby-business =:]
Get on a help desk for some industrial company doing grunt work. Do it well.
Know why help desks generally suck? Because competent people on the help desk stand out and get hired away.
Here's the fear I have with "self-taught" people. How much do you really know?
Making a website work or look good, or both, is not enough. How well is it coded? Do you know best practices, not only for performance, but for security? My employer hired a relatively well respected company to build a web based application that would house medical data. It was my job to put a server in place for them (RHEL) and more or less make sure that their code would run on it.
Well, they used PHP, and since I know PHP quite well, I thought I'd check how they did a few things. I was horrified when I reviewed some code and saw basically:
$sql = "INSERT INTO table_name (col1,col2,col3) VALUES(" . $_POST['blah'].....
Now, formal education does not mean you're going to learn these types of things, but what it does tell me is that you can learn in a formal environment, and if need be, I can put you in training and expect you to absorb the material in a meaningful way.
Hate it for you.
- A Frog in a pond utters an azure cry. -
Fast Company wrote about IGN looking in non-traditional places for excellent programmers: http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/160/ign-self-taught-coders. There are probably others like them.
The best way to get hired is to have skills that are in high demand. I just searched drupal on monster.com and got 210 hits for the entire market served by Monster. I got no hits for the medium-size city where I live. That makes it a relatively small niche in my view. But if Drupal is the way you want to go, I would advise you to develop guru-level Drupal skills, so you can nail every question in a technical interview.
And regarding your lack of a degree, I don't hold it against a candidate when I'm looking to hire someone. The fact that someone is self-taught I see as a fairly reliable indicator of certain traits I look for in a developer. You can't thrive in this business long-term if you're not capable of learning and mastering new technologies on your own. People that can't do that end up working in the same cubicle at the same large company for 25 years maintaining some legacy system built with technologies that happened to be fashionable when they were hired right out of college.
I have been working with microcomputers since 1981 when I got out of the USAF. Most of my knowledge came from being SELF TAUGHT with a few classes thrown in here and there by companies that I worked for. I do not hold any CERTIFICATIONS that Microsoft and others have tried to use as a means of JUSTIFICATION for your knowledge base. In my honest opinion, CERTIFICATIONS are meaningless pieces of paper that people use to try to JUSTIFY 6 figure salaries. I would rather take a green horn any day and train them to the job my way rather than text book way. They are going to learn ins and outs that they are not going to learn from a text book or classroom environment. Also, speaking with someone for 10 minutes, I can tell if they know what they are talking about or feeding me a line of BS.
Anyone can train a monkey to push a button to get a banana from the window, but can the Monkey understand WHY he needs to push the button to get the banana?
Another problem in IT is that every IT person is a PICASO and design is a PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.
Neither would I hire a self-educated pilot, auto mechanic, plumber, electrician, floor tiler, bookeeper, nurse, forklift operator ... How can you gauge your own skills when you don't have metrics against which to measure? How can a singer with a with a tin-ear ever know they have a tin-ear?
I've always been more impressed with what someone could show me rather than what they talked about. Whenever I interview I always have at least 2 or 3 demos of different projects that I've worked on. This conveys not only that you can do the work, but it also allows the potential employer see your thought process as they can look at the code possibly and you can really delve into the details of the why, how, when, etc. There are lots of people that can blow-smoke, but it really only matters when you an back it up with concrete examples. Furthermore, those examples usually trigger something in the hiring manager/team, where they can look at a project and let their mind wander and draw parallels with current problems they need solved. Our minds are terribly relational, and sometimes all it takes is a visual queue to see the potential in someone and what they can bring to the team.
I had the same experience when I got my first job in a small company (less than 10 people) with around 200customers as a Linux system administrator. Been there for 4 years I've learned on the job almost anything from system administration, network administration, operating system and network security, mail systems, programming.
After leaving that company I've started to "sell" my experience around during interviews until my earnings tripled when I decided to accept a job in a corporate.
Hope this helps
Don't take my subject as an indication that you do not have any experience. I am merely stating that you _no longer_ have any experience (or provable at least - since you said most of your projects have come offline). Since you have some decent LAMP experience I would say that you could go with a large hosting company. Rackspace comes to mind. They are paying relocation to San Antonio for Linux Administrators, and they have a heavy emphasis on Apache MySQL. This can give you a few years to get some experience on paper. Then you can start looking for something fun. Of course the other option would be to continue doing your own thing, but either way you will need a portfolio in order to win customers.
I do not work for Rackspace, but I did recently interview with them.
-matt
$diff terrorists hippies
$
$rm -rf *terrorists *hippies
I'm a self-taught programmer as well. I started in Basic when I was 11, and moved to C in high school.
How did I get a job? I went to college, like most other self-taught programmers! There's a big difference in the kind of skills and practice you need to win a high school programming competition versus building an industrial strength web application to handle millions of users.
When I was in college, the best students were those like us, self-taught in Basic. Had I NOT gone to college, I would have wasted a lot of time, and not been able to write the programs that I want to write.
No, I will not work for your startup
I'm also a self-taught geek, and now I am part of a Drupal/CiviCRM shop with three other folks, all self-taught. We do very well, and just made a job offer to a fifth person, also a self-taught Drupal dev. Here's some thoughts from the other side of the interview table.
A few thoughts:
* Getting hired in the Drupal world as a self-taught geek is way easier than in most corners of the IT world. There's lots of small employers, and there are ways to demonstrate your skill that don't involve certs.
* Drupal is a fast-moving product - we want to know that you know the latest tools. Have you developed in Drupal 7? If you're doing theming/front-end, what's your experience with Sass/Closure/etc.? Basically, if you're not plugged into the Drupal community, it's difficult to be up-to-date. So YES, go to DrupalCon, Drupal meetups, etc. - and make sure your prospective employer knows it (if you're looking to get hired by a Drupal shop)
* The most important part of being hired is networking. Not what but who you know, etc. Another reason to hit the Drupal community gatherings.
* I'll echo what other folks said about needing a portfolio. If you don't have one, make one. Seriously.
When hiring, we asked for folks' Drupal.org usernames, and we looked at their history. Seeing that you've made a non-trivial patch to a major module counts for a lot. Seeing that you know how to make a comprehensive and useful bug report means you'll get better responses when you're working on our projects. We asked about community involvement, as a measure of a) seeing how up-to-date folks were, and b) determining if their contacts in the community will help in a pinch - our good relationships with key Drupal devs has certainly helped us in emergencies. It also means we've been referred work (particularly because we specialize in Drupal/CiviCRM). We looked at portfolio - especially important if you want to be a themer.
Finally - one problem we had with hiring folks in your position was a lack of experience with tools used for working in groups. Familiarize yourself with at least one of the popular project management tools used in the Drupal community (I'd suggest Redmine, Open Atrium, or Basecamp). Learn git. Brush up on CLI tools like drush and ssh if you don't know them already. I think it's telling that the person we offered the job to was self-taught, but was already working in a small shop. A self-taught person with experience with the tools I listed above would have closed the gap that advantage brought to her.
One more thing, I guess - there've been a lot of good arguments for self-employment on both sides of the debate in this thread. Consider the middle option of being semi-self-employed. Moonlight doing Drupal dev. I moonlighted as a freelancer, and brought my day job from full time to part time to gone.
Drupal? Most of that drudge work is done by two-bit indian developers nowadays, from what I can tell. There's no desire to employ people like you unless your skin is brown and you like to be paid Indian wages, or you're an experienced "rockstar" who knows how to inflate your resume.
Contracting work on your own would be the one good avenue, IMO. Programming work is not for Americans.
I'm a self-taught computer guy. It seems that it was much easier back in the 90's, prior to the dot-com collpase of '01, to get hired--even if the best you could do was to spell "c++"! I think the bar has been raised since then, making the computer degree far more valuable in some ways.
I'd say there's a lot of good advice here. I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned Top Coder yet, but that is another thing you might consider participating in. Get some credentials, even if they aren't of the college variety. Have a portfolio and something you can show that is rather impressive.
Here in Canada there is government funding for companies to hire students, think co-op or work training programs. I had a similar situation to you in that I had the experience, but lacked the formal education. Found a school program that had a co-op program and pitched the idea to the company I wanted to work for that they could hire me through government funding. It didn't take long to prove my worth and have been a full time employee for four years. It did mean that I put in the time and effort to complete the program of study, but by working co-op while attending school it managed the cost.
I don't care if you're self taught or have an ivy league education - prove to me you know something. Let me see a portfolio. Contribute to open source. Build your own website, do IT support for your local volunteer fire department, build a web app that helps a local pet rescue organization accept donations. Get involved in your local user groups. Anything - just get visible.
I'm not just talking 'out of my ass' here either. If you are in the Reston, VA area and have skills with html/css/javascript/ruby/rails, I'm hiring right now, and thats how I'm trying to find candidates.
Education is irrelevant when compared to knowledge and motivation.
-db
I just wonder makes you a geek.
I don't consider myself a geek, not even close. But I also have self-taught programming skills such as Python, web design and development (including the artistic-graphic side, vector drawing tools, photo manipulation, etc), I know javascript (and now coffeescript!), css, several tools, etc. Although I don't know much about linux or any other OS or low level stuff. I also have some experience with other languages such as php and c# but I've never done anything significant with those.
Do I quality as a geek?
I would never try to get a job in the field, but in my younger (and even today if the chance arises) I made some money creating web sites.
I'd rather consider myself an above average computer savvy guy, and I got there by necessity.
I work in international trade (I'm 42)and when I started, in my first jobs I had to use tools such Microsoft Access, databases, etc...
I had some nasty experiences because by that time, I didn't even have a pc at home (year '95), and I had to replace people who knew all that stuff.
It was frustrating, and I even got fired of my first job after two weeks...
But when I finally started grasping the relational data base model (with Access), everything was clear and fun from then on.
I started adding bit of VBA to my access applications, I got in love with python, and all of a sudden my pre-existing, basic graphic skills matched perfectly with my knew knowledge...
However, I always consedired all of this as complements of my profession.
It's incredible useful to be able to design and develop your tools for managing information, as well as the internet inside out, to reach the markets and get the most of them.
But, as I asked above, am I a geek?
I agree with others saying to start your own business. If you're not into that, look for startups. Startups will be more willing to look at your skill-set rather than a big corporation that use education credentials so that non-informed people can make somewhat informed hiring decisions. Startups are also more likely to give you a more impressive title, giving you further resume cred for future jobs.
I do not have any formal higher education and have gone up against a slew of more impressive resumes (masters degrees, etc.) for my last few jobs. If you know you're stuff and you're dealing directly with people rather than procedures and an H.R. department it won't be a problem.
or else!
I'm wondering if you're aware of how ridiculous your question is. There are thousands of people, myself included, who have worked very hard and did "the traditional computer-nerd thing (comp sci or physics, computer degree, etc.)", and here you are, thinking that you can avoid all that hard work and extend a "hobby" into a career. It's almost as ridiculous as asking "How does a self-taught surgeon get hired?" For your reading pleasure, there is your request, paraphrased into acerbic satire:
"I'm essentially a self-taught surgeon who started learning anatomy at age 12, but decided NOT to do the traditional doctor-nerd thing (biology or chemistry, medical schhool, etc.). I've essentially kept up with surgery as a hobby, teaching myself cutting with scalpels, anesthesia, sutures, and now bone saws. I've worked for a short time at a veterinarian shop but mostly have just done freelance projects and here-and-there stuff for doctor's offices or homeless shelters, many of which have gone under or are no longer accessible. I'm creative, have cutting skills, I'm personable and self-motivated...and I'd like to get a 'real' job now but I don't really look like much on paper — how can I (specifically with bone saws) make myself look good on a CV and/or establish solid credentials that will make people more willing to take a chance and hire me? Will BoneSawCon 2012 help me make inroads? Are there other ways to 'prove' myself to be a capable surgeon/brain surgeon?"
My story...
A few years ago I found myself in the same spot. I was a self taught "web guy" (php). Sure, I could get one-off contract jobs here and there locally but I knew I was limited and had to break in professionally some how. I had every excuse in the book not to go to college...I was too old to go to college (I was 40 at the time), I couldn't afford to go, I didn't have time to go. etc.. However, one December I decided to just "do it" and signed up for an AAS degree program at the local tech school in software engineering for the following semester that started in January. What finally made me decided to go back to school was that I stopped and thought to myself, what was I doing two years ago? I realized if I would have done this two years ago I would already have a degree. So, I became determined and went back to school,,, initially from grants while I was also still working full time. Yes, I worked full time and went to school full time. Yes, It was tough but it had a BIG payoff. While I was going to school the iPhone came out and I decided to learn Objective C and Cocoa on my own. I already had the classes for C, C++ and Java so I felt confident and it was just a matter of learning the syntax and the frameworks. I did a few iPhone apps on my own and put them in the app store while in school. So by the time I graduated I had something to show AND had a degree. iOS programmer's were highly in demand (as we still are) but I knew I couldn't get a job where I was living at the time so I knew I had to be willing to move (at least for awhile) to get initial "team" experience and working on an enterprise level app. So, I put my resume' on monster and I started getting calls. Within a month I had an offer with a contracting company in California working as a contractor at Apple in Cupertino. Even though it was a junior contractor the salary was twice what I was making so I jumped on it if nothing else for the experience. After I had Apple on my resume' that was the icing on the cake. I started getting 20 emails a week from recruiters who found me on Montser.com for full time or contracting positions. I left that cupertino and started working for another contracting company for another increase in salary. I did that for another year and recently made another move for another increase.
Now, even though I have just an AAS degree, I have my own apps as well as enterprise experience. I went from making 40K a year while I was in school working to now making 150K working for a fortune 500 company. The job I have now required a "bachelors degree or equivalent experience". I had an AAS with experience.... and I got the job easily.
Like I said, I understand how you feel. I've been there and I wish you luck with whatever decision you make. I just wanted to tell you my story just so you can see that you can make a huge leap with a 2 year degree and with skills that are in demand. If I can do it anyone can.
Looking back, here are the key things I did..
1. The key to it all....I went to college (even if it was just a 2 year degree)
2. Learned another language on my own because It was "hot" and in demand. I didn't settle for just what they were teaching at the school.
3. Wrote apps on my own while I was in school showing potential employers that I can actually code.
4. Was willing to move out of state to get the experience I needed.
He doesnt. He gets qualifications first, then he gets hired.
Watch Opera? When you have no job, looking for work IS your job and you should spend at least 8 hours a day doing it.
Don't tell the recruiter that. If you have been out of work for any length of time you will inevitably be asked what you have been doing in your time "off". "Looking for work" is always the wrong answer.
If you know Linux very well, find out where Linux Professional Institute (LPI) exams are being held in your neighborhood, and go there.
It will cost you some money (it sometimes is cheaper when you can do it at a Linux conference), but if you pass you get a certification,
which will help you convince others of your expertise. If you are already very familiar with LAMP, then passing LPI 1 is a no-brainer, and LPI 2 is probably possible with just a few days of looking through LPI course material or books. Look around for other certification programs, maybe there is one for Drupal?
...is a big deal. Example: About 15 years ago, the computer systems used by Revenue Officers of the U.S. Internal Revenue Service had reached their zenith. The primary application was called the Integrated Collection System. It did everything ROs needed to do their jobs. Running on SCO Unix laptops in the field and one SCO Unix server per group, *everything* that ROs needed was there without being bogged down with management report-generating crap that wasn't needed to do the job.
Guess what? The whole system was designed, mostly coded, and often administered by Revenue Officers. 80% of the people who ran the project, from coders to SAs to high-level execs, were former Revenue Officers who had been recruited for their "on-the-side" tech skills. These were the guys who everyone went to for computer help and who were always complaining that a properly designed and selected set of computerized tools could make their jobs better.
When just about everyone involved in a software project has actually done the job of the end user, it's unbelievable how much smoother things go in the long run. Yes, it's a pain to take a motley crew of bill collectors and teach them enough about computers (even if they were computer-loving types to begin with) for them to design, code, and maintain such a huge system. But if you commit to that process, you wind up with a vertical app that meets the needs of the customer better than you would normally dare to hope.
Addendum - Naturally, the PHB types couldn't leave well enough alone. Unix for end users was considered too weird so once everything was working perfectly for a few years, execs from outside the normal chain of command demanded that the system be scrapped and re-written for Windows. At the same time, they insisted that it be loaded up with functions designed not to help ROs do their jobs but to produce reports for management and tools for management to control the field employees. (In the view of upper management, the earlier iterations of the program gave the end users far too much ability to do their jobs without interference from management.) Nowadays, ICS is far too much of an employee-control tool. Oh, well, nothing good lasts forever, I suppose.
A degree isn't only about training. It is just as much evidence that you can set a long term goal and achieve it, and jump through all of the hoops necessary along the way.
Not having a degree myself, I find this answer patronizing and just plain wrong. There are many circumstances whee not having a degree is no fault of your ow (including lack of funds/loans, better opportunities, etc). At this point in time, a degree is simply a "checkbox" item for HR to use to filter candidates. No degree, no chance as HR tosses your resume before it gets to anyone doing the actual hiring. So the real problem for you is how to get through the HR filter.
The technical name for it is signaling. Pure signaling works like this: Take two bunches of people, who we'll call Good Programmers and Bad Programmers. Suppose employers can't distinguish between them easily or well. Invent an essentially pointless task which provides no direct benefit whatsoever to anyone but is much harder for Bad Programmers than Good, and so carrying it out imposes a greater cost on Bad than Good. Then, as an employer, offer enough in rewards to make it worthwhile for the Good but not the Bad.
Degrees are not pure signaling, but there's an element. Degrees do not separate people purely based on how good they are as employees - background, culture, money, etc., all come in to the 'cost' of a degree, and the underlying trait selected for isn't perfectly correlated to your value as an employee - but there's an element. Employers do have some power to distinguish between good and bad themselves, but universities do it better and at less cost to each employer with 100 applicants. There's information in whether or not you have a degree, and employers inevitably use this information.
But, yes, there's always going to be some irrational (from the employer's point of view) conservatism when it comes to hiring someone without a degree just because it's not conventional, no matter how much evidence you have of your worth. But it may not be irrational from the HR assessor or interviewer's point of view. Employ someone unusual and you're more likely to get personal blame if he's no good than if on paper he's just like all the good people you already have. So go for smaller employers where there'll be both more variation in attitude and someone (like a business owner) who doesn't have to worry about being sacked.
The real trick to landing a job in this situation is who you know. Get out there and talk to people. Show your skills in a way non-tech people can "get". Impress the right people, and keep them in your back pocket. Every decent job I've had has come by impressing the right people and having them think of me when they see a need. By doing this, they are willing to stick their neck out and tell HR "Interview this guy, regardless of resume".
Yes, I agree, it's a big help. It's still possible to find jobs if you don't know anyone, but you're going to find it harder, especially if you're not so good on paper. But university can be a big help here. You meet a lot of people.
...by hacking into the corporate network of the company you want to work for and obtaining compromising material, such as uploaded video porn involving the company president and a local group of cheerleaders (female and male cheerleaders work best), the numbers of the offshore accounts of major corporate officers -- don't be tempted or distracted by this, by the way, we're trying to get a job, not get rich directly, that sort of thing. You might want to encrypt their entire customer database as well with a key Only You Know. After this, a subtle hint in the right place -- one that just appears in their mailbox as if by magic -- should do the trick, without needing to resort to similar email messages in the mailboxes of their wives, husbands, federal agents working for the IRS, BATF, DEA and FBI. One hopes.
What, you disagree? Strange, it has always worked for me...;-)
rgb
P.S. -- and if it doesn't, well, there are always all of those account numbers...
Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken. --- Bertrand Russell.
imagine you're an employer at...a repair shop for cars...
someone comes up and says they're not ase certified, have no real job history with cars, but they're a wizard with transmissions.
what is the question that immediately follows, if you're nice, and an open-minded "head hunter"?
"can you show me some of your work?"
without "proof of learning" you'll need to have an extensive "proof of skill"
so if you want to be a web-designer, and can't prove your knowledge, you must demonstrate proficiency with a "blow them away" website.
If I was hiring web developers of any kind, I certainly wouldn't hire PHP or Drupal people.
Even if they have never written any PHP before, I'd be looking for someone with a track record of writing OO code in C++ or C#. The engineering discipline of these type of developers is simply much better in my experience.
Simple admin skills like Linux and database admin, and web application can be done by any competent developer, in my experience.
The biggest thing as a self-taught computer geek, without a degree in Computer Science and similar things, and much more importantly, without directly related working experience, is to find the right company for what you have to offer. There are companies that offer *REAL* entry level positions, learning on the job, things like that, however, they're few and far between. Certain industries (medical and financial applications coming readily to mind) are more likely to do things ... their own way ... so to speak, and may not need look for as much formal experience as other industries. Looking at postings in the area you'd like to work is good, but read deeply into the postings and see what they're really looking for. In this economy, if they want someone with a college degree in Computer Science and 1-2 years related experience, it's probably not going to work out for you. If they specifically mention that a degree is helpful, but not required, then you've got a chance to wow them with talk of your exploits. Try to sell your passion for what you do, because in the absence of a related degree and experience, that's going to be your biggest asset.
One way to break into the tech field is by doing contract work. This can include working for 'temp' agencies that specialize in IT work. As said agency moves you from one assignment to another you could easily get 2 - 3 different companies under your belt that way in just a couple years. Then your resume would list the parent 'contractor' and then list the individual contract assignments with date ranges, project tasks and usual fluff. The only thing you would be lacking is health insurance, which if you are young and unmarried might be a gamble worth taking, otherwise you're going to have to figure out that obstacle.
I started the same way. Self taught. IMO you won't get hired if you start with "I know Drupal". You know PHP and /use/ Drupal. If I read a CV which says "I know Drupal" or "Joomla" or so-on before it writes about PHP, alarm bells start ringing - there are plenty of people who don't understand the difference between a PHP framework/CMS and PHP itself. Make sure you don't end up as one of them.
Presuming you /do/ know the difference between PHP and a PHP framework, then concentrate on what you've done. You will need to get some examples online. Just write some image hosting service and a link directory with a back-end, or something. You need *something* to show off.
Alternatively, if you don't want to get in to back-end development, write some cool front-end stuff.
Apply for jobs at smaller places if you genuinely aren't good at Object-Oriented PHP programming (or even if just don't want to get in to back-end dev too seriously). A small print agency will probably have you designing and skinning Drupal sites for their customers. It'll be boring but probably good experience and gives you things to write about in your CV. Or approach larger web companies for a junior role. Either way though, you will want to move job after a year or so. If you stride to do your best, you'll progress fast and will probably be earning more than they're prepared to pay you (the "junior guy" will be the junior guy for a long time; it's much quicker to get out of that position by switching jobs).
I'll take this moment to say don't fall in to the trap of thinking the way Drupal does things is the best way, and anything different is wrong or incorrect. Drupal is not "always right". Nothing is.
In your CV write about what you /do/ know. Don't concentrate on irrelevant qualifications. Who cares if you play guitar. If you can write decent code we know you can use a Word processor, so don't bother writing "Experience with Microsoft Word". My CV is almost a portfolio. I write about education at the end; after reading about my experience people don't seem to care that I don't have any real education.
Anyway. Approaching things this way I've gone from £15k to £32k in about 4 years. Which I don't think is bad, especially as I have no university debt ^-^. Just keep learning in your spare time, and change jobs the second you're hungry for something your current employer can't offer you (but probably no more often than once a year).
Well you're really asking about 2 different career routes. Generally speaking, when you get to a certain level, "web developer" and "web server admin" are often not the same job. Is there one that you like much more than the other?
If you want to be a web developer, as other people have said, put together a portfolio. If you don't have enough sites that you've done to put together a portfolio, then offer your services for free/cheap to some people and build one up. Find some local businesses or musicians or... really anyone. Make their website. Make it awesome. Don't ask for a lot of pay. Not only will this let you build a portfolio, but it might also build up some word-of-mouth to get you additional jobs. Be ready to freelance for a while until you can some up with something steady. A steady job may come later, or you may find that freelancing suits you fine.
If the problem with your old work is that it's no longer accessible, then try asking your clients if it's ok to use their site in your portfolio, and keep screenshots and even functional copies of their websites on your own server. One way or another, you need to show people what you can do.
If you want to get into IT support and system administration, then expect to start at the bottom. Take whatever job you can. Keep in mind from the outset that doing professional level support is more complicated than setting up your own LAMP server. You may have to learn a lot about things like customer support, documentation, change management, and working within arbitrary constraints set by someone else. Real support jobs can be very different from tinkering/hobby system administration, so don't go in expecting that you know everything. On the other hand, most IT people are pretty incompetent, so don't feel too frightened either.
Not to sound snobish but there is value to a CS degree if you pay attention in class. I have a few degrees and taught for a few decades (CS courses part time), while working in industry. I have over some 40 years of working in the industry noticed a difference in the skill and depth of those that were self taught or learned on the job and those that had subjected themselves to college study on the topic. The difference can be very dramatic but not in every case.
Knowing syntax and being able to design a web site is really just surface knowlegdge. The real deep knowlege comes , as I have observed, in the knowledge of Data Structures and Algorithms, and analysis of algorithms, Database structure and normalization, and exposure to different problem domains and the languages and patterns they have.
All of this knowlege can be obtained outside of the classroom and I would counsel you to pick up a good book or two and get that knowledge and exposure. Then show what you have done and studied along with your projects as part of your accomplishments. It would show that you were serious about gaining a depth of knowlege in the industry and probably give the companies some faith that you can understand and solve their problems in a determanistic way.
A deep understanding of Data Sturctures and Algorithms I feel is the most generally useful set of tools you can obtain and really is the difference between a hand crank drill and a drill press.
Good luck.
Your next step, really depends upon what you want your next step to be. Ask yourself; do you want to be a "Web Developer"? Do you want to be a Software Architect? Do you want to be a Web Services or Infrastructure Developer? What platforms and languages do you want to specialize in?..... Making the transition from a self taught developer to one that is priced based upon formal engineering skills is a big step, and one that will not be easy. It can however be done. People do it all the time. It does however require some planning and dedication on your part. First figure out what you want to do next. Then write your resume focusing upon the skills that you no doubt have developed already that are applicable to that goal. Think in terms of what companies are looking for and the published experiences that those roles required. I think you'll find your better equiped than you might have thought. You may not get your perfect job right out of the gate, but you will have a much better chance moving toward the role you want if you go into a new company with that goal in mind and the notion that you are re-inventing yourself with your goal in mind.
We have a huge need to hire a ton of Drupal folks w/LAMP experience. Apply online here http://www.acquia.com/careers
You'll get a lot of temporary work and the benefits kind of suck but oftentimes a company will contract out to a consulting agency and not care too much about pedigrees. All they want is an able body for a 3-6 month stint. If you have decent skills it could work to your long-term advantage though. There are places who test-drive potential employees through consulting, so getting a full-time "permanent" position is possible under the right circumstances.
Be warned though, It helps to have thick skin. Projects get cancelled and you can be the last to know. Your "co-workers" can play dirty sometimes also, so I keep a log of things I worked on and a couple sentence summary of what I did. When I'm done with a project, I'll offer to make the log available to the boss for documentation reasons. It's a great way of showing you can go the extra mile should they consider hiring you long term.
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
I know, people are going to complain that the BS degree is the new highschool diploma. Well, that's happened because everyone has a highschool diploma, so the employers are looking for an easy way to distinguish the capable from the incapable.
Assuming that you're really bright, having taught yourself computer science well, finishing a college degree should be a breeze for you. At many colleges, you could get through in 3 years instead of 4 if you go summers.
You'll also run into the problem that all of us who DID bite the bullet and get degrees are not going to tolerate anyone WITHOUT one getting paid as much as we do. The employers know this. Besides, to the employers, getting a degree demonstrates persistence and responsibility, while not having one suggests laziness. Is that a reasonable interpretation? I don't know, but that's how they feel, and I don't completely disagree. Sure, it's possible for one to learn CS well and get good at software engineering without a degree. However, getting a degree is one way to PROVE that you're good. (Even though it doesn't always prove a whole lot, a high GPA demonstrates that you're capable of starting and finishing something that isn't necessarily enjoyable.)
Some of the nonconformists out there will also want to complain that a degree is just "the man" or "the establishment" trying to hold you down or force you to conform. But that's bullshit. Many colleges are very intellectual and free-form in the way they teach or allow you to learn the material. If you're bright, you can select your courses, even opt out of many if you can prove that you know the material. You can actually have FUN getting a degree if you're above average in intellect. Many of the "harder" courses are even more difficult to get bad grades in, because the profs are looking for creative solutions to problems. It's mostly just the weed-out courses that are graded by a brand new masters student who expects you to answer identically to the answer key.
Moreover, there's some value in learning to pretend to conform. Many jobs expect you to follow a dress code, for instance, and if you want a good job, you may just have to deal with that. There are also many CONVENTIONS in CS that are just that. Conventions. They are arbitrary in the same way that red, yellow, and green lights are arbitrary for traffic control. But we follow them to maintain order, based on creating shared expectations. The same is true of many arbitrary conventions in software engineering. You do something a particular way simply so that other engineers with the same training can collaborate with you or maintain your code after you've left. It's not about holding you down. It's about teaching you how to function in established frameworks. And the fact is, you are not so special that you can be above cooperating with other engineers, no matter how much of a genius you are.
I was the same, with no qualifications. I started work in a small IT company on their helpdesk and learned Linux and Unix from that position. I'm now 35 and own 2 properties without mortgage; I had nothing to begin with. I view that as enough success for me. I have never contracted but will consider that next as I don't feel the need for the security of a salaried position, I am just too lazy to leave my current employer who remunerates me well enough. Go for a small business to begin with, they won't have the HR issues that many of the posts detail here in response. Even better, a small family run business will look for qualities in you that other companies would not (I cannot explain that, but I know it) After 2 years, move on - the only way to get decent a pay rise is to move to another company, staying in the same company will only see you garner incremental increases based on your current salary whereas moving to another company can see your pay increase through demand of your skills. I would wish you good luck, bu you won't need it if you are even half decent. There are always jobs in IT, it's proved recession proof in this dark time at least. Be prepared to travel.
>/dev/null 2>&1
If the traditional resume route isn't doing it for you, perhaps consider rebuilding your resume to focus on skills. Google "skills resume" for some examples. Also, maybe make a web site. If you've got rad Drupal and PShop skills, perhaps you could make a small web site that displays your resume, but in a creative way. Last suggestion, maybe you could focus on finding someone who just needs one assignment done as a free-lancer. You could consider under-bidding more experienced competitors, then once you have that assignment, you can add it to your resume and start looking for another. Also, maybe submit to Slashdot. I bet some people there know some people who do Drupal.
just build a portfolio. For someone that has a bunch of websites and creative work under their belt, any webshop/agency worth their salt will take a good portfolio just as serious if not more serious than a CV/resume
Too little debt and that individual will be regarded a slacker
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but when I was hired by my Fortune 20 employer eight years ago I had zero debt of any kind. Perhaps hiring practices have changed in the last few years but this is the first I've heard of companies not being willing to hire debt-free applicants.
Companies do check credit ratings, but that's just as much used as an indicator of responsibility as it is of a theft risk. I do know of one applicant here who was all set to be hired on but was denied the position at the last second due to having too low of a credit rating. I think the specific fear here is that if it's too low the employee needs money so badly that they could be bribed or extorted to turn over confidential information, be it corporate secrets or customer data.
"We can categorically state we have not released man-eating badgers into the area." - UK military spokesman, July 2007
Similar situation to you. Nobody used to take me seriously until I wrote a programming book. Then I suddenly had a big badge of instant credibility.
For most jobs in any field getting your foot in the door is the most important step, the rest is in your ability to sell yourself.
If you begin to analyze the interview process too much you're doing it wrong.
What's so wrong with getting a qualification? Employers will look on you more positively as soon as you enrol in a course. So my advice is to learn some formal theory and get the proof that you did it. It will give structure to your experience that may never quite 'gel' on its own.
Startups are a great way for you to probe yourself, and use their access to new stuff to learn new things.
I've done that and it has been my sort of "university".
Oh, and also good contacts.
I'm not just self-taught about computers, but entirely self-taught.
I put this in bold print on my resume. I bragged that I learn fast and learn well.
And I backed it up at the interview.
Lots of people can write code. Few are the complete package in this business. Nobody wants to learn the little things, such as builds, deployment, etc. Get interested in the "boring" stuff, like testing and test automation. Learn everything there is to know about build and configuration management with your tools of choice. Then practice all those things copiously. This is an area of deficiency in nearly every organization, so identifying that need and making yourself into the person who can fill it will go a long way toward making more hirable, regardless of how you learned your trade.
The easiest way would be to keep honing your skills, create an iphone app that will send a message back in time to your 12 year old self and tell him to go to effing college.
Resumes highlighted by "self taught" and "didn't want to go the traditional route" might as well say "I'm lazy."
You know who else was self taught? Most everyone you're competing with, and they also had the common sense and motivation to get a degree to go with it. Complain all you want an outdated and/or inefficient system, it is what it is.
Learn COBOL then go work for a bank.
Same thing here, VIC20, all self taught, and the best advice i can give? Take any tech job, work at least a year for them, and if you really are good you will work yourself into something interesting, or at least get a good reference and then you can move to a good job. Trouble is getting picky, cream always rises to the top in this business, now i am CEO of my own company
Start with five million.
I also was a self-taught programmer and getting started was easy. I found a job working part-time at a design studio. I actually made less then I was in my previous job. Take a few code samples of stuff you've done. Show it off and explain why you did it that way. Probably the most influential book I've read is Code Complete 2 my Steve McConnell. But it is a book for software engineers and I would not consider it a prerequisite to getting hired as a front-end developer.
If all else fails, start getting certified. CompTIA or CIW. But I put more weight behind code samples then anything else.
We'd absolutely love to talk with you. Please see https://expensify.com/jobs, or write jobs@expensify.com -- we look for people *exactly* like you. Here's what's written on our site: https://www.expensify.com/jobs/need
Who We Need: Engineers, Entrepreneurs, Expert Generalists
We are always hiring talented generalist programmers. But if you really like titles, we're looking for:
- Salespeople (of the future!!)
- Fresh graduates (graduating soon)
- College dropouts (graduating never)
- Senior programmers (there's no such thing as overqualified)
- Mobile developers (iOS, Android, BlackBerry, Windows Phone... even webOS)
- Systems programmers (back end performance and stability)
- Web developers (bring on the PHP!)
- Front-end engineers (jQuery, HTML, CSS, all that)
- Web designer (PSD, HTML, CSS)
We're not looking to stick cogs in a big machine.
We need people who can do pretty much everything and immediately learn how to do the rest. Before even thinking about the skills, we're looking for you to be:
An incredibly hard worker, even when it's not so fun.
There is a ton of work to do, and a lot of it downright sucks. After all - we do the sucky work so our customers won't need to. We need you to buck up and grind through random tasks, server logs, user emails, source code, and bug reports, without complaint or supervision, and come back asking for more.
A cool person to be with.
Not a crazy party animal, just someone we can trust, rely upon, hang out with, bounce ideas off of, and generally interact with in a positive way, both personally and professionally. In fact, this is one of the most stringent requirements we have: would you be fun to hang out with day and night on some remote, exotic beach? This isn't a rhetorical question, either: every year we take the company overseas for a month (on your own dime, sorry) and work incredibly hard while having a ton of fun. We've done Thailand, Mexico, India, Turkey, and the Philippines. Where do you want to go next?
Super talented, in a general way.
We're going to throw a ton of work at you of every possible sort, and you need that magic skill of being able to figure it out even if you have no idea where to start. Everyone helps with tech support, schmoozing at swank parties, hosting events, coming up with new and ever-more-ridiculous marketing stunts, etc. And if you code, you'll code everything: you might do mobile one day, front-end design, back-end optimization, low-level debugging, the works. This is not a monkey job - you're going to be a full participant in the process, and you need to bring your own unique blend of skills to the table.
Even more talented in a programming way.
You can instantly visualize solutions to problems big and small. Your code is always clean, well commented, has good nomenclature and indentation. You can switch on a dime between C++, PHP, Bash, Cron, HTML, CSS, JavaScript, jQuery, Dwoo, SQL — not because you know them all, but because you're the sort of person who can just pick it up and figure it out. If you're this sort of person, you'll know what we mean. If not, then this position isn't for you.
Basically, we're looking for people who want to do amazing things with their careers, and who are searching for a way to get started or take the next incredible step. Does this sound like you? If so, read on...
Please check us out!
-david
Founder and CEO of Expensify
Follow us at http://twitter.com/expensify
I didn't take the time to read the 477 comments (at the time of my posting) to see if someone reported a similar experience, but I also taught myself programming when I was young (BASIC, then Pascal, then C/C++, Java, etc) and landed a part-time internship after high school that I turned into a full-time job. I've been working at the same company for 11 years. I didn't start out as a developer, however. I did QA part-time for two years, then was hired full-time as a tech support rep and gradually moved my way to development. The way I see it, the company hired me in a low-risk job, and I was able to prove (over the course of a few years) that my lack of a degree did not mean I couldn't perform as well (or better) than my peers.
There is definite value to being an enthusiastic "hacker"-type developer who can approach problems differently over a college grad who is just doing it for the pay check. My managers have expressed appreciation of my different take on the job.
Get any job in a company that has the kind of jobs you are interested in. You can't start at the top so you get hired first and get then get noticed then you move ahead. I am just a Help Desk monkey but made $53,000 last year. That keeps the wolves at bay while I look at some other way to make even more money.
Unlike when I was starting off in a similar situation 20 years ago, we have the Internet these days. Actively brand yourself and none of this flash bang nonsense. Actually show what you can do... most importantly focus on professionalism... make sure you don't leave unfinished projects everywhere. Remember that to many companies a university degree says "This guy is willing to follow through with any crap assignment he gets in order to achieve a goal".
The next thing is... be better than the university guys. University grads almost never graduate with any actual usable skills. They're generally just people who proved they can accomplish hard jobs they didn't know how to do before they started... And they can follow through (think I said that already). You need to have better skills and most importantly, the proven ability to follow through. If you open source some code, it should be documented and pristine.
One thing a great computer programmer with a degree from a university understands which a self-educated guy doesn't is data structures. I recommend religiously studying Knuth, become an algorithms expert. Study patterns from the Gang of Four. Be modern and learn parallel programming patterns as well. In reality, if a university grad came out of school with nothing else, those topics alone is enough to make them far more useful than most others.
Good luck... it's a hard journey and in a modern time when there are IT grads falling off of trees left and right, it'll be a tough journey for you.
Two suggestions:
1 - Build a portfolio. If you like the kind of work you're doing - do more of it - maybe "for free" to show off your skills. Reach out to a local business or two and offer to build a website or something. Create a portfolio and that becomes part of your resume. Who knows - you might also create your own gig building web sites and in-window ads for local businesses.
2 - apply for an entry level job. It is a long way up, but this is the argument of college vs non-college. You may achieve the same level of success - but non-college folks take longer to get there. But you gotta start somewhere - and if you bring in the portfolio (even based upon your current works) - they will be more inclined to hire you over somebody with fewer skills. Once inside - you prove yourself, and the climb begins.
It is all about marketing yourself. I don't like the concept of "you" as a product, but sometimes it does help to think of yourself in those terms. Also - what is your niche? what are you interested in that isn't a dime-a-dozen skill? Writing web site code is considered a basic skill, so you won't get paid the big bucks for it. It sounds like you may also be a graphic artist? Assuming so, and it interests you, market that up. Or take a 2-year college course on graphic arts. Having a cross-skill set like that is more valuable. Code monkeys are common. People with skills aren't.
Good luck.
I was once in your shoes. I made a homepage and posted my c.v. on a jobboard. Then I got asked to become a junior webdeveloper at a company. But hey, you may not be that lucky and have to look for a job yourself. First of all, make a website to show off your skills. Secondly don't look at big companies, they usually only hire people with a degree. Profitable small companies usually only hire people with lots of experience. So look for not so profitable small companies, most of them will be IT companies that are start-ups (under 5 years old). You can recognize those companies because they usually have ongoing job openings for interns. And use terms like 'young, ambitious, dynamic, no 9-5 mentality'. The pay won't be very good. But you will be able to learn a lot. And after 2-3 years you can either move up or away. Good luck!
Just bombard everyone on earth with spam like everyone else in the industry seems to do now. It makes you look pro.
Maybe you should consider starting in an entry-level tech position (haha like support...) and migrating to the department you want after once you've built up some clout. Entry-level support positions are pretty easy to come by, and that's how I got started in the industry. Six years later and now I'm 29 and working as a Channel SE. It's a bit of a different role than you're looking for, but role traversal seems pretty easy at the smaller companies. At least, it is at my job, and I've heard plenty of other success stories from colleagues.
If you're motivated, it shouldn't be an issue, and you'll still pick up A LOT of knowledge that will be helpful. Couldn't hurt to try. :)
I was almost the same story. But I went into the Marine Corps as a COBOL programmer in the 90's. After four years in the Corps, I left and got a job at a LARGE commercial company for four years. Then at a large hospital for the past twelve.
In short, the experience of one, led to the opportunity of the other.
However, experience is the LONG-HAUL approach. I'm still limited because I don't have the sheepskin.
Leo Laporte said on TWiT the other day that he was looking into hiring a web designer with Drupal experience... Check into that.
Or, I recommend the military, if possible, and get your degree at the same time.
Good luck.
.. because you picked web development as a field. So if you're willing to work for a little less (or nothing) for a bit, you can get a decent portfolio of good looking websites out there. The portfolio will speak for itself if you document used technology and interesting background on your own website.
And I'm saying you're lucky because if you were a Java developer writing middleware or working basically any other development job out of immediate view, you'd have a hard time showing off your work without it being free and open.
Get a portfolio of your stuff together. Get someone artsy to help you make it look as good as it can. Advertise your skills or respond to help wanted ads. $$$ come soon!
Computing and Programming Since 1975 The Best Kept Secret in Technical Support Master of the Bare Metal Clean Install
A sentence in the header and continuing it in the body.
Assuming you mean "prove" and not "provide", that's utter rubbish. You have to prove it to everyone.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I have *no* post-secondary education. I was done with highschool right around the time when the .com boom was happening, so I joined in the chasing of the pie in the sky.
Since then, I've worked for household names. None of them have cared. The most I've gotten in an interview is,
"I've noticed your resume doesn't have an education section."
"That's because I don't have one -- I've been doing this because I love it since I was a kid -- writing code professionally since I was 14, and doing it ever since."
"Oh, alright."
The job offer usually comes after that anyway.
I do it by making sure I attend and give talks at local universities as part of programming groups.
I'm a member of local user groups.
I contribute to open source projects.
All of these are marketable skills that I point out on my resume. Add that with my work history, and it's never really been an issue. I'm lucky enough now where most of my last few jobs have come from the company coming to me, not the other way around.
So in short: keep bettering yourself, try and get involved in extracurricular activities that are relevant to your field, and be prepared for the questions when interview time comes.
I'm an engineer with a programming hobby. I started a new job in a different area of engineering and found that there were opportunities to improve the efficiency of compliance checking, so I started working on a php application at home. It started for my own benefit at work and also because it interested me as a hobby programmer, and it offered a good way to learn the compliance standards that were new to me. When I reached a point when I was happy to give it a go at work, I made it available from a lamp server at home with one of those afraid.freedns.org subdomains and started using it in my day-to-day work. It was ok but I was quickly hampered by bugs, and having to wait till I got home to fix them was annoying, so I mentioned it to my boss. He asked me to give a bit of a presentation of the app to him and my colleagues, and it was very well received. It is now an internal project on its own lamp server, management doesn't mind paying me to work on it and I even got a nice bonus because they recognized the huge time (and cost) saving opportunities from the level of automation. It also offered improved confidence in decisions, less chance of errors in the compliance determination process, etc. The application is owned by the company even though I spent a large number of unpaid hours working on it, but it has made my paid job that little bit easier and I have the opportunity to be a paid programmer some of the time. Starting a software business (particularly in engineering software) poses huge risk if people get hurt as a result of a bug in your program, so I was happy to be able to use my app without having to worry about all the ins and outs of running a business and dealing with legalities and insurances etc. It also feels good to see my app being used by others, and while I like every employee is expendable, I have a sense of satisfaction because I'm the one who knows how the program works the best. This approach isn't the way to go for every budding programmer, but it's at least another option that can be considered. Its also something handy to have on your resume, works towards professional development (important for membership to certain institutions) and offers opportunities for writing papers for presentations at conferences (which I'm planning to do for my application). Its also funny how a program that starts off as a simple tool to try to make my job easier, which not that much more capability than a spreadsheet, can grow to become virtually indispensable to a company. Makes for a good case when talking to hr about a pay rise. See a need, fill a need. Oh, and it helps to be lazy because "needs" become more obvious :) Good luck with your search.
You could contribute to an open source project that can get the most out of your skills. Even you could get involved in the production of Drupal if you know PHP. That will make you a professional geek and show others that you are really a skillful and professional programmer.
Good luck!
DrupalCon can be expensive. If you can get there cheaply and perhaps share an AirBnB with someone or otherwise cut costs, it might be worth it.
However, you definitely need to continue freelancing or contracting so that you build a portfolio that you can point to.
In terms of self promotion, I would advise that one of the biggest bang-for-your-buck methods would be to present at Drupal Camps that you can attend cheaply. Make a 45 min presentation out of one of your projects as a "case study", those types of presentations are popular.
Eventually you will get a job offer if you keep that up.
In the longer term, you cannot neglect your education. This doesn't mean going back to school or taking formal classes necessarily, but you have to realize that you will have to be improving yourself for the rest of your career - either learning new technologies before your customers need them, deepening your theoretical background, learning a foreign language, something. Try to attend to that in a disciplined way.
I see people like you all the time. The problem for you is that you are too common. Anyone can pickup a free template and go through the install process. When someone sees Drupal, Joomla, Wordpress as your development experience they know that you came into it as a hobbyist. You are easily replaceable. The thing school did for me is put about 7 languages on my resume that aren't tied into any system like being a Drupal developer is. My suggestion to you is to learn the languages instead of the templates. I had to do things unrelated to my specific job too like install networks and do IP Adressing, I'm partially cross trained to at least understand the terminology or pick up when someone is out in a smaller company. That gives you better range. If you interviewed against me... I could develop my own CMS where your proficiency lies in tweaking or installing an existing one. I could also edit any existing CMS when I know the core language. That's who you are competing against when you haven't done training via school. As for photoshop, it's as commonplace for a web dev to know as powerpoint for an office clerk. Also, if you don't understand HTML and CSS like a beast, don't even think about getting into web dev or trying to fake it because you will be exposed very quickly as not able to tweak existing designs.
For reference on school vs home taught. I learned HTML way before I went into school. My school didn't teach PHP and I learned it away from school. We all have to constantly learn in this field no matter if we started at school or not. What I wonder is what is keeping you from going to school. I went later in life, might be an option for you if you really think it's holding you back. The thing is - if you have references of your work and you aren't getting results from that then your work isn't good enough and you have to get more base learning in. Only you know if what you are doing is quality work, I don't to judge that.