Slashdot Mirror
Iran Shuts Down US Virtual Embassy
bonch writes "Less than 12 hours after the U.S. launched a virtual embassy for Iran, the Iranian government blocked access to the website, directing visitors to a government page proclaiming the site illegal. The White House condemned the move, calling Iran's internet policies 'an electronic curtain of surveillance and censorship around its people.'"
Blocking websites like this is a bad thing; I wholeheartedly agree. Now, what was that about the Obama administration pushing for a Great Firewall of America?
Palm trees and 8
Yes but... how do you REALLY feel?
Hehehe, typo filled ranting aside, I agree completely. It seems beyond the average US citizen's mental grasp that there are people who would like to live peacefully whilst still being diametrically opposed to everything that the US stands for.
Something wrong with open access to the Internet, bunky?
Rather ironic considering that the U.S. government is doing everything in its power to censor its _own_ people on the Internet.
Oh give it a rest you anonymous coward. I'm not American and I don't live in the USA, but if you hate the place so much go live in a *real* police state. Then you'll know what censorship really is. I guarantee you if Iran were to host an "eEmbassy" not only would the US government not block it, they'd have no means to do so other than the courts, and the courts would tell the government to piss off.
The White House condemned the move, calling Iran's internet policies 'an electronic curtain of surveillance and censorship around its people.
Really? REALLY? F*UCK YOU U.S. You are EVERYTHING that is wrong with the world. Go f*cking away and stop crying about people why just want to live their lifes peacefully. You worthless pieces of shit who attack other countries and everyone who doesn't like your limited religious views. You are the scumbag of earth. Go eat your shit. You want to know why we dont like you? BECAUSE YOU TRY TO TELL US WHAT TO DO TO, YOU STUPID SCUMBAGS.
Well, where to begin here?
1 - The US is "everything that's wrong with the world". Really? If the US dissapeared tomorrow, just what do you think would happen to the world? Honestly. Do you think the world would suddenly live in peace and harmony? Hint: The US has only been around under 300 years. Have a look at world history before that time. Let me know how great things were.
2 - "Go f*cking away and stop crying about people why just want to live their lifes peacefully." Right, the Islamic Republic of Iran just wants to live their lives peacefully. And they do nothing bad.... like, sponsor Hezbollah or ship weapons or participate in kidnappings. Nope, if the US went away, everything would be right as rain in Iran. Right?
3 - "You want to know why we dont like you?" Who is "we"? The entire rest of the planet? Your country? Your neighborhood? Some guy ranting on Slashdot?
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
for political reasons.
Unless it wanted to, of course.
but if you hate the place so much go live in a *real* police state.
"If it could be worse, then the current situation is objectively good..."
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
"If it could be worse, then the current situation is objectively good..."
Not what he said. What he said was it could be actually *bad*, but that it wasn't, at least not for the moment.
I would add that it could also be *better*.
"None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
> Really? If the US dissapeared tomorrow, just what do you think would happen to the world?
Canada would slide south and we'd be that much closer to real Mexican food!
SOPA -> http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-11-17/news/30412322_1_ip-act-rogue-websites-sopa
Laundry list of past attempts -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_the_United_States
(CDA, COPA, DMCA, COPPA, CIPA, COICA, and my favorite named DOPA.)
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
Is the issue
Only any idiot would confuse that with censoring anything. EVERY govt will censor something. It is censoring political expression that is the problem
Everybody understands that right?
Right?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
We've gone from confronting an Iron Curtain to an Electronic Curtain!
What does any of that have to do with the Iranian government censoring a website? You actually believe that such an act of information control is in the best interests of the citizens of Iran?
No wonder you posted anonymously.
In a US prison rots Javed Iqbal. Who is Javed Iqbal? He is a satellite dish installer who let people see Al-Manar television. Al-Manar is associated with Hezbollah (which as Shia, are associated with Iran, and the US government constantly links Hezbollah and Iran in statements). So how is the US throwing people getting news from Iranian, and Iranian-allied sources good, yet Iran doing the same thing is "an electronic curtain of surveillance and censorship"?
2 - "Go f*cking away and stop crying about people why just want to live their lifes peacefully." Right, the Islamic Republic of Iran just wants to live their lives peacefully. And they do nothing bad.... like, sponsor Hezbollah or ship weapons or participate in kidnappings.
Strange. Just replace "Islamic Republic of Iran" with "USA" and the sarcastic statement would still be applicable
So, uh...what does any of that insane ranting have to do with the Iranian government censoring websites?
It is hard for the US to call out other countries on their censorship when the US government itself is pushing for censorship. Here is what the conversation looks like:
US: Hey, Iran! Stop blocking foreign websites!
Iran: We are just blocking websites that break our laws. You did the same thing when it came to copyright infringement!
US: Well that was different. Copyright infringement is theft!
Iran: Yeah well those foreign websites amounted to an attempt to coerce our citizens to rebel against the government! That is even worse!
US: Well uhh you see...you are doing it for political reasons, so that is bad!
Iran: Well what is up with your copyright lobbyists and the influence they wield over your congress and executive branch?
US: herp derp.
Palm trees and 8
Iran Blocks American Virtual Embassy Forthwith!
White House Cries Foul! Why Are Iran Such Meanies? !!1
Readers Vote, We Report:
[1] Iran Are Meanies
[2] This Response Was Obvious, And Iran Are Still Meanies
Those Iranians need to have their mouths washed out with SOPA.
USA isn't as bad as X, therefore USA is good?
I hit my wife with an open hand...it's okay, 'though, because this guy I know hits his wife with a baton and at least I'm better than that.
I am an American and I live in the USA. Don't forget that "the courts" are also part of the government. The federal government often and egregiously oversteps the specific privileges granted to it by the constitution; the courts, supreme and otherwise, often allow this to happen. Our government, the judicial part of it included, have made great strides in the restriction of personal freedom, including the field of censorship.
Don't get me wrong, the USA is pretty cool, and our government is definitely an open-handed beater, but just because Iran's government sucks more, that doesn't mean that our government doesn't suck quite a bit on its own.
it is not the place of the US to incite rebellion in Iran
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
All of this was perfectly predictable. Government is such a waste of time and money.
I didn't see him say that. Either way, "bad" is subjective.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
It is the place of the US to stand up for unalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
...one might say, "Well, that was quick?".
But I think in this case, it's more appropriate to say, "What took them so long?"
The young generation of Iran certainly doesn't have much of a beef with the US, and by all accounts, would just assume we got along with each other, each in our own respective neighborhoods.
But the older folks, both there and here, still remember that we hate each other, for good reasons, bad reasons and LOTS of lies.
[End Of Line]
Oh, right, not only do all those Iranian people want "to live peacefully whilst still being diametrically opposed to everything that the US stands for", but it's the US's fault for "inciting rebellion" if they don't.
You mean, by injected "unapproved" information?
Right, the Islamic Republic of Iran just wants to live their lives peacefully. And they do nothing bad.... like, sponsor Hezbollah or ship weapons or participate in kidnappings.
since that's just as applicable to the US would say the US people don't just want to live their lives peacefully?
3 - "You want to know why we dont like you?" Who is "we"? The entire rest of the planet?
mostly yes.
Straighten up your own act before whining about the rest of the world.
People still complain about the last time the US tried that. World War II, I think it was. Didn't last very long (although, who knows what would have happened if the Japanese had left well enough alone.)
"None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
Tell that to Bradly Manning or maybe even Jullian Assange
"an electronic curtain of surveillance and censorship around its people." ... Kind of like what the government is doing here in the States? The Patriot Act just kicked it into overdrive. Bill of Rights? Think you have those natural rights? Your government has taken them away and will do terrible things to you if you exercise those rights.
How's that been working for you lately? Before answering, you should probably consult your Homeland Security Potential Terrorist Interaction Manual for the proper response, Citizen. Remember, the threats are amongst us.
...Steve
No, the poster is reacting to the idiocy of the post. In a world with Putin grabbing power in Russia, North Korea investing in nukes while its people starve, Iran's theocracy feverishly working on bombs, Syria slaughtering its citizens, etc, calling the US "everything that's wrong with the world" is so moronic that it evokes outrage.
I posted anonymously because, well mainly I don't care, but also unlike you I'm not looking for an ego boost.
The real question here is why the US thinks it can interfere in the running of any country it decides to.
If the Iranian government tried to set up a web site for US citizens to read propaganda from, how long do you think it would stay up?
This isn't about culture it's about hypocrisy.
Better: beam in free, uncensored internet so the Iranian ppl can bypass govt censorship. Then do the same thing in the US!
Seriously? On a scale of 1 to "bomb the shit out of Iran", I'd rank a verbal scolding from the White House a solid 1.
Yeah, given that the situation in the USA is that I have free speech, freedom of movement, freedom to vote for whoever I want, freedom to cruise the Internet, freedom to read foreign press, freedom to observe my government at work, yes, the situation is objectively good. Or to put it another way, point me to a spot on this planet where the situation is significantly better.
Eternal vigilance. When we do something wrong, call us on it. When we do something right, like the virtual embassy thing, give credit.
I think you'd find that there are a lot of U.S. citizens that are pretty disgusted with the way our country is behaving right now, both domestically and globally, if you actually asked any of us about it. Do you think that we're all over here cheering this crap on or something? There's people protesting in almost every major city in this country right now.
It amazing that a country who we keep threatening with sanctions would block a US Virtual Embassy website. Of course, censorship is a terrible thing. I guess if we borrowed money from them like we do from China, we could over look Internet censorship.
So please explain Iraq. Oh yes and the 1953 coup in Iran that got rid of a democractically elected government. And half a dozen countries in South America. And......
Care to make an explaiantion?
Deeply religious country censors internet!
This was by far the dumbest idea I've seen coming out of the state department so far. Virtual embassy sounds very nice, but end of the day it is just another website with pages upon pages of useless information (aside from visa forms lets say) which no one I reckon except a few read. I think the American's are just trying put a lot of hype into their website by calling it a virtual embassy. So what's next, a virtual embassy in Second Life? Come on people, get real. If the US government is serious about diplomacy they should stop beating around the bush and playing kiddy games and really engage the other side. I think the Iranian government did a good service to its people for blocking this virtual embassy -at least their action saves some bandwidth!
You had me until the watching my (our) government at work. Everything that really matters we don't see until it is too late. We get a damn dog and pony show while meeting are held behind closed doors with lobbyists deciding what is in "our best interests". Most of our reps don't even read most of the material they vote for. How the hell can you vote for something that changes the laws of the land if you haven't even read it?
fascism is the catcha. That's too funny considering the thread. Are they picked randomly?
It is hard for the US to call out other countries on their censorship when the US government itself is pushing for censorship. Here is what the conversation looks like:
US: Hey, Iran! Stop blocking foreign websites!
Iran: We are just blocking websites that break our laws. You did the same thing when it came to copyright infringement!
US: Well that was different. Copyright infringement is theft!
Iran: Yeah well those foreign websites amounted to an attempt to coerce our citizens to rebel against the government! That is even worse!
US: Well uhh you see...you are doing it for political reasons, so that is bad!
Iran: Well what is up with your copyright lobbyists and the influence they wield over your congress and executive branch?
US: herp derp.
Thatd what i call right on target !
Very well actually. We do not live in a dystopian state.
Despite what some people would have you believe.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
It is the place of the US to stand up for unalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
If a website is a real threat to your regime then maybe, just maybe, there is something not right with the regime? But really this action is in the long run worse for the regime than anything the US would post on the site. People crave what they are told cannot have. It's a gift to the revolutionaries.
No, the poster is reacting to the idiocy of the post. In a world with Putin grabbing power in Russia, North Korea investing in nukes while its people starve, Iran's theocracy feverishly working on bombs, Syria slaughtering its citizens, etc
All the while US people are fighting over a 4GB USB stick, now THAT is something worth fighting for!
Yeah, given that the situation in the USA is that I have free speech, freedom of movement, freedom to vote for whoever I want, freedom to cruise the Internet, freedom to read foreign press, freedom to observe my government at work, yes
I don't care for the whole pedophile and terrorist hysteria. The TSA, the Patriot act, the (in my opinion) ridiculous copyright laws, etc. I'd say many of our freedoms are under constant assault.
As for free speech, just look to free speech zones (and, although generally not regarded as a bad thing, certain speech such as slander is punishable).
objectively good
That was supposed to be sarcastic. I don't see how something could possibly be "objectively" good.
Or to put it another way, point me to a spot on this planet where the situation is significantly better.
Well, since "better" is subjective, I could point you to practically any country on the planet.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
Like it wasn't obvious even to some silly AC.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Exactly. Because in the United States, if a jerk like you or me posts a critical comment on a site like Slashdot, the government will block the site entirely, and might even arrest and imprison us and our families! Truly we are, like, totally oppressed.
The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
Press TV IS a web site set up for US citizens to read propaganda and it IS still up. You are an idiot.
that there are people who would like to live peacefully whilst still being diametrically opposed to everything that the US stands for.
Im not entirely sure you are familiar with what embassies are FOR.
Hint, having a chinese embassy in the US doesnt mean we love everything about China.
"not only would the US government not block it"
You must be new here. Just peruse our last few weeks' headlines. The US *can* and *will* censor absolutely anything they like without regard for what anyone else thinks.
Basically, forever.
Or do you really think we block al-Jazeera? Or any other Iranian site? Just checked, by the by, and the Iranian government's Ministry of Foreign Affairs website is available online from where I'm sitting (though I don't read Persian, much less speak it, so I have to depend on Google Translate).
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
The funny thing about all of this is that Iran is just a place name to most people in the U.S. and about as real as Neverland or Hy-Brasil. They have a concept of Iran, but that's about it. If you're Iranian, you don't exist, in their heads, and so what happens to you *doesn't matter*.
"My God...it's full of trolls!"
... Well, that, or canada would have a lot more beachfront property.
Try your foreign policy.
Many seem upset that the table shave been turned, and this has become an opportunity to bash America for its limited censorship.
Censorship in a dictatorship or autocracy is expected, and required to ensure the "great leader" continues to be perceived as "great".
However, in a democracy it's the other way round.
Censorship means that the gubment believes the citizens (AKA voters) cannot think and decide for themselves.
Let's accept that for a moment.
Now consider who elected the gubment. The voters, who can't think and decide properly.
Therefore the gubment was elected by people incapable of making good and rational decisions.
Censorship in a democracy invalidates the government.
ANY censorship!
Yeah except you're incapable of wrapping your head around the idea that we DON'T think that was a good idea! It's like arguing with a religious zealot.
It's OK Bender, there's no such thing as 2.
No, just like the guy who can't grasp that the idea was bad, you've STILL got this idea that they have a right to an opinion on Iran because they live in the US.
And somebody, I *think* it was one of those naughty middle east countries, I can't quite remember which, has to pay for those twin towers! Right?
Over, and over, and over, and over again...
And now it's to the point where they think they can blatantly push their propaganda and nobody will call them on it. They just stand and crank the war-machine in plain view and we are supposed to go "hmm yeah, democracy and shit, we're awesome"?
It's OK Bender, there's no such thing as 2.
The Islamic Republic of Iran wouldn't exist without the US. Remember, we destroyed their democracy in 1953 because they were trying to nationalize their oil fields, and kick us out. British Petroleum began its life as Anglo-Iranian Oil, which was known as Anglo-Persian Oil before that. The company was literally founded on the outright theft of all of Iran's oil, along with a handful of American companies that got their cut after Operation Ajax was complete. We installed the Shah, he repressed and radicalized the population with our money and training, and then the people revolted, as they often do.
We helped Britain divide and administer their post-war winnings after WWII that largely has started all of this mess. (Do you think oil-rich Iraq was divided equally into Kurdish, Shiite, and Sunni populations by accident?) We backed Saddam to punish the newly independent Iran after they overthrew our Shah. We participated in the proxy wars which destroyed Afghanistan, Iraq, and Iran in the 80s. We allowed Pakistan to develop nuclear weapons -- as in, we certified them as nuclear free every year -- during the 80s in exchange for helping us smuggle weapons into Afghanistan. We backed Mubarak. We were pals with Gaddafi while he was torturing and murdering people because he was selling oil to us, but that was all the way back in 2009. We allow Turkey to murder and suppress Kurds at their whim because they are an ally. We didn't say much about Syria at first because it was one of our blacksites. We're still watching Bahrainis get murdered because we like the sitting government that allows our fleet that we use to project power into that Middle East to have a massive billion dollar operations base.
The US isn't the root of all evil, but in the modern Middle East, it's the root of most of it.
You're proving your own point.
You've gotta be kidding! Al Jazeera is US approved middle eastern news. That's why it's the only middle-eastern channel available, even here in Australia.
Do you think between those bunch of countries all together they could only come up with one TV station?
LMFAO.
It's OK Bender, there's no such thing as 2.
Maybe the US should just say, "appeal to hypocrisy."
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
Hey why not go a little further back, when they were dicking around while Nazi Germany ravaged Europe. Ah well, to bad for the French liberte, egalite and fraternite, hey it's not like the yanks owe them for anything, like oh I don't know their independence and the whole concept of life, liberty and prosperity.
Functionally, companies in the United States block Al-Jazeera. I challenge you to actually watch their CNN-like feed on your local cable station. The best I can do is their half-hour daily news program broadcast alongside BBC America and (that wretched) RT News on KCET in Los Angeles; today I consider Al-Jazeera's reporting premeir among broadcast television.
We at slashdot all know it's easy to intercept and redirect DNS (unless you're in Sweden, those fine adopters of DNSSEC), or insert in a transparent Squid/whatev with a hosts file, but I'm confident at least they're probably not using Websense, years ago I installed the mod_geoip ruleset to deny access to daily updates for requests originating from embargoed nations.
Last time I was in Syria Facebook was blocked at the port 80 level. But ssh forwarding 3128 worked fine, hopefully no one was etherealing 53. Funny it took Syria three years to finally ban iPhones, I lost a brand-new 3G getting out of a taxi in Damascus... the one time I didn't photograph the license plate of the car I was getting into.
Seeing "Persian" instead of "Farsi" struck me as odd, but I suppose I'm the odd one.
1 - The US is "everything that's wrong with the world". Really? If the US dissapeared tomorrow, just what do you think would happen to the world? Honestly. Do you think the world would suddenly live in peace and harmony? Hint: The US has only been around under 300 years. Have a look at world history before that time. Let me know how great things were.
I think half the world could stop living in fear. Your 300 years point makes no sense, there's been 160 million people killed in wars in the 20th century. The existence of the US makes no difference to world history.
2 - "Go f*cking away and stop crying about people why just want to live their lifes peacefully." Right, the Islamic Republic of Iran just wants to live their lives peacefully. And they do nothing bad.... like, sponsor Hezbollah or ship weapons or participate in kidnappings. Nope, if the US went away, everything would be right as rain in Iran. Right?
Do you read, do you know anything except what FOX pours down your throat nightly??? Iran does want to just be left alone. Fuck, they want to use nuclear tech for energy, get accused of making weapons, are more open with inspectors than any country ever could be (You don't see Israel or the US getting there programs inspected do you?), and then the US continues to straight out lie to you, like you're fucking sheep. You Americans are that fucking dumb you just forgot they lied about WMDs and Saddam - And that was because he didn't want to sell oil for US dollars anymore. He let is inspectors who found nothing, but your government LIED to you. And now again, in Iran, inspectors have said there's nothing, so they fired that guy and put someone else in who magically says there is?? You're a sheep.
And in regards to sponsoring anything, they are right next to Israel, who do have nukes, and have straight out said they will use them against Iran. What would you do, sit around doing nothing, just be a Jew's bitch?
3 - "You want to know why we dont like you?" Who is "we"? The entire rest of the planet? Your country? Your neighborhood? Some guy ranting on Slashdot?
No, it's the rest of the planet, just something to make you realise how just fucked up the US is, they think they own the world, I can't wait to see your whole country tear itself apart soon.
http://killinghope.org/superogue/bomb.htm
It is not for you to say because it is not your country, it is not your race and it is not your culture. How dare you even imply that your way is the one true and correct way for a society to exist?
The US government seriously needs to back off and let other governments run their own countries. If the people in those countries want any kind of change, it will happen naturally without outside interference or invasions. The reason the United States is hated by so many countries is precisely because the US government can't seem to mind their own business, so why don't they work in the best interests of their own citizens and focus on the major, major problems at home?
calling the US "everything that's wrong with the world" is so moronic that it evokes outrage.
During WWII, we invested an awful lot of money to develop our own nukes; Money that no doubt could have been used to put food on people's tables. We still work "feverishly" on bombs, except now we've gone from trying to create the biggest bombs to the most precise ones, and we're arming our police departments with drones capable of launching missiles that can fire through your window while you're eating dinner, kill you, and leave everyone else at the table undisturbed. As a bonus, we've oblitherated the right to a trial, to face your accuser, and to have the facts presented against you, as well as to have it all made public. Our police and military can now do pretty much whatever they want, and if you so much as make a peep of protest, we'll send 1400 officers armed with tanks, assault rifles, and full military battle gear... to deal with 50 peaceful protesters, on public property, demonstrating because they are homeless. We're slaughtering our citizens too, having the highest incarceration rate of any country in the world. Just because their acts of inhumanity are public and ours are private doesn't mean they're any less cruel. We rail on and on about China's Firewall and their tightly controlled media, while we're busy deleting domains off the internet on every server we can get our hands on that disagrees with our political agenda and paying homage to news sources like Fox News. Our news sources only come from a small handful of corporations, and everything seen on our television carefully created to give the appearance of controversy and openness, when in fact there is very little of either given the amounts of money involved.
No sir, it doesn't evoke outrage... the amount of crap our country gets away with is inspirational to the countries you mention; They hope to wield as much wealth and influence as we do, they're just less transparent about it.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
Stop with the anti-American propaganda you liar.
Javed Iqbal was arrested in New York in November 2001, on charges of conspiracy to defraud the United States and fraud in relation to identification documents. He was plead guilty to fraud, went to jail, then later released and deported to Pakistan.
Tell that to ICE.
Just the one with the most prisoners. And legal bribery of your politicians. And more military than basically the world combined. Yeah, just your average modern utopia.
Yeah, because having them place GPS in your car for "critical comments" on Reddit and then have the ICE jump at you with weapons drawn for traffic violations means nothing to you.
You spineless piece of Stazi, Vichy shit.
Do your parents know what is wrong with you?
calling the US "everything that's wrong with the world" is so moronic that it evokes outrage.
The main difference between all of those countries doing wrong and the United States is that we do evil in other countries, and they do it within their own borders. That's doesn't make us better, it's just a reflection of our status as the world's only superpower and the relative health of our electoral system. We watched Syria and Egypt and Tunisia and Turkey murder for decades without saying much about it, because we found them useful. And back when we controlled Iran with a dictatorship, we shut down the free press just as we did after we invaded Iraq.
Hypocrisy is indeed what is wrong with the world. Grow the fuck up already.
Jesus, what a whiny bitch.
I refer you to my original comment: http://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2561396&cid=38286062
Ok.
Russia: It's Russia, that's how a country that big and corrupt needs to be ran. Putin at least has Russia in mind. He's the strongest leader in the world.
North Korea: Please post some form of evidence - Preferably an article not originating in the US.
Iran: IAEA Inspected and has not found Iran is attempting to process low-enriched uranium into weapons-grade uranium. From the IAEA ""so far, Iran has carried out good cooperation with us in relevant verifications." Please post some evidence or proof, shut up.
Syria - Is their own country, none of anyone elses business what happens inside their borders. Especially when the US is trying to pass laws that turn the US into a battlefield, allow indefinite incarceration without trial and are right now arresting peaceful protesters all around the country.
The US invaded Iraq under the premise of lies. The inspectors were given full access to the country, and found nothing, but the US lied to it's people and invaded anyway. And when it was clear they'd lied, they lied again and said there were connections to Al'Qaeda, which proved completely fabricated.
And now the inspectors have said Iran's not making Nukes, but FOX is telling you they are, in a few months the US will be headed over there to get more oil, while bullshitting to you with no accountability whatsoever.
You're countries the bully of the world, and I'm hoping so badly it all turns to shit for you all real soon.
With that number of UID digits? He'd have had to pay big bucks for that number if he was only 14!
Gitmo. Corporate p0wnership of your election process. Countrywide/BofA and the bank and wall street bailouts. Not one bailout bankster in jail. The clamp-down on the OWS movement, which is a fundamental free-speech issue.
There's 5 to get you started. The shutdown of the "virtual embassy" is small potatoes in comparison. It was also a really, REALLY dumb idea to begin with. After all, it would be easy enough for the Iranian authorities to track who accesses it, make a list, check it twice, find out who's been naughty ... same as the US has been doing for a couple of decades with Echelon..
> "unalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"
unalienable? :-P
life: I believe the death penalty is alive and well in the US
liberty: Guantanamo, "extraordinary rendition"...
Pursuit of happiness? They'll call anything a right these days
Seriously though, I think some people have trouble thinking outside their culturally imposed value system...
If only US unmanned drones were that accurate...
...bazinga!
Um....the CIA and British operatives worked together to make the coup happen. The British government was extremely unhappy that Iran had nationalized their oil production (nullifying the contracts they had). The Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat) is a decent jumping off point on this one. A lot of what we see in the region is a legacy of British Imperialism and attempts by the CIA to control the political landscape. It's not very dissimilar to the CIA training and funding of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia to change the politics of that region (French Indochina) as well. We saw how that turned out...
This is not to say that we can excuse all actions by a people, but we would do well, I think, to consider the legacy of Old World Imperialists and the Super Powers when viewing the geopolitical landscape. Further, it is perhaps as unwise to consider a people synonymously with the actions of their government as it is to consider our own way of doing things--whichever way that is--as being necessarily superior to any others. Patriotism is a laudable trait. Nationalism is a fetish that the world could do without.
Yes, the USA is pure evil. We have committed atrocities by saving the world from domination of the Axis powers, have been the first to come to aid and gave more aid than anyone else to those affected by natural and man-made disasters, have clothed and fed the needy, and have given countless billions in aid to nations all over, at great cost to ourselves. We have freed people from oppressive regimes, and have made the world a safer place.
And yes, we have made mistakes. Nobody is perfect - but we are a hell of a lot better than you. :)
People care a lot more about $AWFUL_REALITY_SHOW than they do about foreign propaganda here, there is no need to block it.
I'd imagine the Iranian govn't wished they had a population that was sedate enough that they didn't have to block propaganda.
Just crank out another season of "Dirty Ice-trucker New Jersey Born Italian-American Hookers in Alaska", and everything will stay the same.
Sent from my PDP-11
If the Iranian government tried to set up a web site for US citizens to read propaganda from, how long do you think it would stay up?
Until the website is shut down due to lack of interest or funding?
Are you really suggesting that the US government would censor the internet if Iran put up anti-US propaganda and/or ban its citizens from viewing it? Really?
It's a mystery how this post was modded up.
Well, where to begin here?
1 - The US is "everything that's wrong with the world". Really? If the US dissapeared tomorrow, just what do you think would happen to the world? Honestly. Do you think the world would suddenly live in peace and harmony? Hint: The US has only been around under 300 years. Have a look at world history before that time. Let me know how great things were.
2 - "Go f*cking away and stop crying about people why just want to live their lifes peacefully." Right, the Islamic Republic of Iran just wants to live their lives peacefully. And they do nothing bad.... like, sponsor Hezbollah or ship weapons or participate in kidnappings. Nope, if the US went away, everything would be right as rain in Iran. Right?
3 - "You want to know why we dont like you?" Who is "we"? The entire rest of the planet? Your country? Your neighborhood? Some guy ranting on Slashdot?
I really hope that this was not a serious answer, but a poor attempt at trolling.
If that was not the case, I sincerely hope that you are 12 years old.
The White House condemned the move, calling Iran's internet policies 'an electronic curtain of surveillance and censorship around its people.
You are the scumbag of earth. Go eat your shit. You want to know why we dont like you? BECAUSE YOU TRY TO TELL US WHAT TO DO TO, YOU STUPID SCUMBAGS.
Then you're going to love it when the Chinese and Russians take our place as super powers. I will enjoy watching your rioting, pathetic masses of children being tortured and then crushed under the boot heels of actual nationalist imperialists on CNN (well, before those self same governments kick the free press out, anyway).
You keep begging for your countries to become clones of North Korea. I see no reason for the US taxpayer to continue to foot the bill to protect you from your own hypocrisy.
I have to agree...but even if it's not in the best interest of certain citizens (for whatever wild reason that it could possibly be 'not in their best interest'), I don't think there's anything wrong with letting them decide for themselves individually. It's called "self-control" -- and it's what you *should* learn how to do when you're an adult because part of being an adult is learning how to decide what's right and wrong for you and then taking responsibility for your actions. I can't say it encourages (a) much individuality (b) any freedom of thought whatsoever or (c) any self-growth towards learning how to make decisions for oneself responsibly when the government is doing all the thinking for you.
I mean, sheesh...it's a website not a damn ied...so oh, no, what's the worst thing that can happen? The citizens of Iran will learn what it's like to have a government that doesn't oppress them and treat women like crap and then people might become more unhappy than they already are and rebel against the fascist regime there? That'll happen anyway if they keep up this b.s. I mean if this is what they do to a few bytes and bits on the Internet, I can't imagine what the rest of the society looks like in its lack of diversity, choice, and freedom. Hey, if you want to keep your own citizens patriotic and keep them loving the religion they're practicing, why not try treating them like human beings and I don't know, not punishing women for getting raped by calling it adultery? How about letting them choose what they want to wear in public or if they even want the same religion as you? Then, if they do decide to stay loyal, you'll know they really do care as opposed to they're just obeying because you blocked every Internet site that gave them any slight glimmer of freedom, good treatment or legal justice and brainwashed them into thinking your way is the only way.
In the U.S., we may be full of smut on TV, full of nasty, 99% silicone, plastified actresses/models that could serve as flotation devices and nasty hairy old men sleeping with them and we're totally shameless about our five million new diets when half of us are overweight and overdosing on fast food...we may have some crazy deviations from what seem like rigid belief systems and religions, but hey, at least we know we're patriotic and choose what we choose because that's what truly feel is right and not because someone told us so or took away all the other options. At least when we realize something is wrong, we have a system that can help fix it and adjust to changes of belief, realizations and tolerance developing over time...as opposed to a rigid system that's entire existence relies upon the idea of nothing ever changing...
It is the place of the all humans to stand up for unalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
FTFY. No need to get any one nationality involved in this. In terms of basic human rights, we're all the same people in the end.
Are you unable to make a salient point to address his comments?
Assaulting a caricature of your own making is pretty feeble, dude. Obviously you're incapable of formulating an interesting opinion.
Something is wrong with a country whereby something like the title sentence is universally familiar to pretty much anybody in the world.
Even counting the posts in this thread as a crude survey, most people hate American meddling (and for good reasons).
Do more.
It's on America's tortured brow, That Mickey Mouse has grown up a cow
With SOPA looming over us, it makes sense to point out that SOPA will create a similar situation of internet censorship. You are viewing this comment within the narrow context of the story USA vs Iran, he is viewing this story within the wider context of censorship.
If Iran shuts down a site, it is evil. If the US shut down a site, it is good. Welcome to animal farm!
"It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
They don't have to block the entire site. There are plenty of moderators around to mod you into oblivion. No government action required.
The "Electronic Embassy" was "gamed" to begin with.
If you want goodwill on the path to normalizing, you don't do it by sidelining diplomatic channels and messaging unilaterally. That's hostility - not diplomacy.
If the US State Dept wanted full relations with Iran, they could open up shop tomorrow. But everyone there knows that Israel would cut off their lobby-enslaved testicles. The barriers to entry are US and Israeli.
The "Electronic Embassy" was created TO BE BLOCKED
Now, the "evil Iranian government" can be used to generate a thousand obfuscating talking points - and to frame Iran for "blocking dialogue" - when in fact, it is the US which has PERPETUALLY refused relations and negotiation.
This is a ruse. Iran is not some Western Asian version of North Korea, propagandized with some false lampoon of the US that dominates popular imagination.
As I indicated in the earlier story, there is little or nothing that Iranians need to know about the US, that they don't already know, either by watching satellite TV (which every Iranian has) or by calling their cousin in LA, which half of all Iranians have.
Iranians tend to be the most Amerophilic people you will encounter - but the US has been able to do extensive damage to that impression in the past few years. They seem to be on the path of eliminating all good graces.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
The US takes affairs seriously when money is involved.
All your Mosque, are belong to us...
For in politics, as in religion, it is equally absurd to aim at making proselytes by fire and sword. - Publius
Did you get turned down for a green card again?
You are welcome on my lawn.
al-Jazeera is FAR from the only Middle Eastern channel available. Maybe in your ass end of the earth country it is. Not in the US. We have entire packages of local channels devoted to various expatriate ethnic, including those throughout the middle east groups available from our cable and satellite providers.
Oh, for fuck's sake.. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you mean the Iranian citizens want to live in peace. The Iranian government on the other hand, wants to bend it's entire population to it's overbearing will, and the rest of the world with it, if they can manage it. They're a bunch of sadistic, religiously fanatical assholes who don't give a flying fuck about anybody or anything except their agenda, which is at least an order of magnitude worse than anything the U.S. can dole out.
The problem with this line of reasoning is that no critique seems right unless you're at the bottom of the pit.
Iran a bad an oppressive regime? Fuck, yeah,
USA's critique correct? Of course.
Better to live in USA than in Iran? You bet!
USA's government being fucking hypocrites in the way they critique Iran's government, at the same time doing SOPA? Definitely!
Let me get this straight. You think that putting up a link to a free copy of a movie that somebody put a lot of effort into making and would like to be re-reimbursed for, equates to censorship of an entire nation?
I weep for our future.
Some days I get the sinking feeling Orwell was an optimist.
I both agree and disagree with this. I do know a few U.S. citizens, and each of them are rather intelligent and understand what is happening with their country. But yes, the U.S. is an international bully as far as politics go. This has happened before with legalizing marijuana in Canada. The U.S. had no business sticking their hands in, yet they did anyways by effectively threatening to restrict trade with Canada if we did so. There is also the U.S. tradition of having a "war" around every 20 years. Please, stop dragging us into those "wars". I say "war" with quotes because it is not truly a war unless you conscript citizens, and turn your entire economy over to a war-time economy. A war is something with your entire country on the line, not a fight against terrorists from another country that your own government gave weapons in the first place.
Yeah, there's a lot of things going haywire in this country right now, but you know what? I feel pretty confident in saying that I feel safer and more free here than there in Persia. I've never been to the region, granted, but I'm a proud European born imperialist American who celebrates American hegemony. America is not everything that is wrong in this world as the first poster claims, pretty far from it. America has certainly failed a lot of tests, but then my Britain and my Germany have as well, so it's hard for me knock the US for being self interested and imperfect. I would hope that Americans would know about the dark past of Chiquita back when it was called United Fruit and called El Pulpo by the locals it fed on, but most likely don't just as they don't know about the horrible things American companies like Abercrombie & Fitch have done in Saipan. That said, the world is big, but not so big we can't easily find human rights violations committed in other countries by governments, private industries, and state run businesses.
But since we're going to claim in this thread that the US is inciting rebellion in Iran with this site, let's look at some of the horrible imperialistic things that the US has done using this virtual embassy. From a quick glance, there's:
1. A section explaining visas; how they work, what type there are, how to read one.
2. A section for document reqs for birth registration and a PPT application
3. A bookmark of links to various US cabinet and mission websites.
4. Instructions for renewal of passports
5. Information on how to study abroad in the US.
That's all pretty scary stuff, isn't it? There are a couple of things that challenge Iran's fundament human right to control what its residents see and read like annual reports on human rights, trafficking, country reports on terrorism, and an International Religious Freedom Report on Iran. There's also an Open Societies page that seems to paint the US as some kind of defender of women's rights, religious freedom, etc.
Yeah, America has its bad days. So does every other nation in the world that has aspired to be more than San Marino. I know, I know, I'm being unfair in ignoring that one time when San Marino violated its neutrality during WWI as a result of 10 partisans joining the Italian Army. The Virtual Embassy is a good endeavor.
Your rant might be a bit more meaningful if you weren't an AC. Every country does shit that looks bad depending on how you look at it. The EU loves to sit back and let the USA do all the dirty work and then bitch about it.
I won't say the U.S. is perfect, far from it. I wish we would pull all our troops and influence and aid out of the rest of the world and let them fend for themselves. But as soon as we did we would have dozens of Countries asking or begging for our support. So get the fuck off your high horse and quit insulting others from the safety of your anonymous hole.
If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
Oh I do hope that pun is intentional.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
the US is just jealous they don't have censorship, but there working on it
I believe that the Civil War (American Civil War for those not from the US) was ultimately all about the unity of voice with which the United States speaks - which has blessed the rest of the globe when we screwed things up royally, and cursed the rest of the globe once we had your attention but didn't want ir. I'm not forgetting Emancipation, but let's not mix moral rectitude with ultimate effect. The Blacks fought for another hundred years more to get equality, but the United States spoke with one voice directly after Appomattox - and has ever since. Just for the record, all of the various Americans I have met have been cultured, kind, and intelligent - but with strange blind spots, mostly with regard to firearms and foreign policy. Few Americans are aware that the US has been found guilty of terrorism for example. I once asked an American to marry me. She knocked me back. She made a good wife when she did get married though.
I said - don't look Ethel!..., but it was too late..., she'd already looked.
Well then, they're not doing a very good job of it.
Maybe the US is just mad because China and Iran and India and others are so much better at censoring the internet.
I guess you could say that when it comes to censoring the internet, I'm glad the US government is so incompetent.
You are welcome on my lawn.
someone put this retard out of his misery
in a world of finite countries and finite options, yes
reality's a bitch ain't it?
Agree Iran is wrong. But cant point a finger on others when Our own Policy for internet is screwed and with all new strange laws getting passed for free world. No more comments.
[citation needed.]
From http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/24/AR2006082401461.html, is this:
You wouldn't be a(nother) pro-American propagandist liar, would you? Yes, it looks like you are. Couldn't even get the year right on your dissemination, could you?
Before judging blindly, have the decency to look at the website : http://iran.usembassy.gov/
There seems to be some strange reflex that everything the US does, must be for some evil agenda.
I'm European , so i recognize the tone. However, our own leaders are just as bad ( if not worse ).
Slipping shoelaces ?
It shouldn't. I favor US isolationism. The world doesn't deserve any attempt by the US to "help".
For example:
We defeated Japan, which begat the worse Communist China. Had we left well alone, no Mao and no problem.
We helped defeat the Nazis, which rescued the Soviets, and begat the Cold War which begat Jihadists etc.
The world would be better off if the Japs and Nazis had won then moderated over time.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
GP included a link to a NY Times article which supports his statement. Any proof it is untrue?
I think the complaint is that the US was involved in countless (well, about 175 by copy/pasting Wikipedia article starting here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations#1900.E2.80.931909, into text editor, counting lines, dividing by 2 due to double-spacing) military conflicts during the 20th century, but somehow managed to sit out of about half of each of the World Wars, as though they were either too insignificant, or perhaps not lopsided enough, or maybe sympathies with the other side were too strong (hi Prescott Bush).
Yeah, I think it's the hypocrisy that's the issue.
The easiest way to get people to accept a negative change to their standard of living is to compare it to somewhere that's worse off. There's always somewhere worse off than you, but that doesn't mean you can't be outraged when your rights are slowly degraded away.
If we use your logic, ("at least the U.S. is better than <insert dictatorship>") then the U.S. can easily slide down until it is just slightly better than the worst dictatorship on the planet, and people like you will go willingly.
Sorry, this required a second reply.
Following quote from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Blitz.
US stayed out when Britain suffered this:
76 consecutive nights of bombing.
Now, compare to 9/11, and America's reaction and expectation that the entire world would jump immediately to their side, and ... well sometimes the gag reflex is hard to suppress.
Further case in point, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Blitz_(American_football).
Yes, it appears that an American football team, based in London, named themselves after the 76 nights of consecutive bombing.
How'd America like a European-style football (soccer) team based in NY naming itself the New York Nine Elevens? Boggles the mind.
I'd say not. For one thing, I don't believe in objective opinions. Second of all, the other countries would (probably in most people's eyes) only be better than the other ones, but still not good.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
is Iran trying to get a /kickban?
irc.internets.earth is such a troubled place.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
I believe the site was a virtual embassy... the US broke off diplomatic relations with Iran since the overthrow of the Shah (and the subsequent hostage taking drama) and vice-versa.
If there are no diplomatic relations, the country cannot set up an embassy, it would have been interesting to see what services were offered with the virtual embassy though.
The Iranians deal via the Pakistani embassy as they are persona non grata in the US and the US deal through the Swiss (and, it turns out, through the former British embassy). Does the US want to re-engage in diplomatic relations with Iran? It would be great if they did.
The Vienna convention regarding embassies states:
The establishment of diplomatic relations between States, and of permanent diplomatic missions, takes place by mutual consent.
The sending State must make certain that the agrément of the receiving State has been given for the person it proposes to accredit as head of the mission to that State.
The receiving State is not obliged to give reasons to the sending State for a refusal of agrément.
An embassy is a diplomatic mission. I don't think there was mutual agreement, no agreement, no embassy I would have thought but I suspect the US knew what would happen, great PR.
BM3
I am a time traveler from the future and where I come from people understand that the internet is a place to get information designed specifically for you by the people you pay taxes to. Other governments are all bad, and we don't dare cross IP borders... especially since they implemented IP v1984 and all networks only have access to their own IP segments and all traffic on said segments route through a connection direct to the government run 'packet enhancer'. It's fun and safe!
A little known inconvenient truth. The world always has, and will continue to have empires and nations of super power status. Now that we got that out of the way, ask yourself this. WHO would you rather have this title?
Life is not for the lazy.
'Nough said DanO.
Just when has this President not, NOT, passed a secret executive order turning the Contiguous US into a Prison State with the citizens as prisoners.
The true function of the Northern and Southern security walls are to prevent citizens from leaving when President Obama declares Martial Law on the night of Nov. 6 2012 -- to prevent the popular vote results demonstrating his crushing ignominious defeat.
Yet it's the US which banned providing internet services for Iran, Cuba and others long time ago. And now when Iran blocks obvious US propaganda site, it's now evil. I have no love for Iran, but... US, shut the fuck up.
slashdot wouldn't read the rest of my post if I didn't start with something punny...
Protests are just one step. You have to vote them out. And make more people, everyone you know, vote them out.
I don't have a sig.
76 consecutive nights of bombing.
Now, compare to 9/11, and America's reaction and expectation that the entire world would jump immediately to their side, and ... well sometimes the gag reflex is hard to suppress.
The Blitz is a badge of honor for England due to how they reacted to it (no reaction). They probably love the idea of a team called the London Blitz. Actually, I know for a *fact* they love the idea since the British team, in Britain, created by a British guy who apparently loves American Football and created this team in said British league for a sport made in America, is named after it. A better analogy for you would be, how would Americans feel if an American team, based in America, run by an American, playing...cricket or something...called themselves the Pearl Harbor Bombs. You might get some protesting, but it's hardly as if another country, not the country where something HAPPENED, called themselves something.
Also, y'know, the blitz happened in the MIDDLE OF A WAR. Not out of frigging nowhere like Pearl Harbor or 9/11.
What's more atrocious? Watching someone get punched in the head repeatedly during a boxing match? Or watching a guy rabbit punch some random stranger in the street?
Further case in point, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Blitz_(American_football).
Yes, it appears that an American football team, based in London, named themselves after the 76 nights of consecutive bombing.
How'd America like a European-style football (soccer) team based in NY naming itself the New York Nine Elevens? Boggles the mind.
You missed one part...
"London Blitz are a British American football team based in North London at Finsbury Park athletics stadium."
Just because they are playing 'American style football' doesn't mean they are affiliated in any way with anyone from USA. They are not NFL. They are BAFL, British American Football League. If people in London are OK with that name why aren't you?
Awlaki, a US citizen, was murdered basically because he expressed certain views. Those views might have been repugnant, but palatability is not really a consideration in free speech, and we are certainly not the bastion of free speech we once were. See for example, the court case from the 70s involving Nazis being allowed to march in Skokie: http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/strwhe.html
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
Americans are clueless. Iran has plenty of reason to hate the USA and it is justified. It will take time and a lot of old people dying off (oddly, it may take the USA longer to grow out of it than the victims.)
BTW, I'm one of the few informed Americans and I have no ties to Iran but that shouldn't need to be said to somebody who knows the history of the situation.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
Utopia |<---------- CONTINUUM ---------->| Dystopia
Idiot.
("Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING." Well, yeah. I am yelling.)
The world would be better off if the Japs and Nazis had won then moderated over time.
What.
The fuck?
Hell, I support a certain degree of isolationism (primarily on the, don't mess with wars for people that don't specifically beg for our help and get the fuck out as soon as they want us out), but I can't say that letting the Axis powers win WWII would have been a net positive for the world.
Unless you consider the world the people that are (a certain kind of) White and Japanese. Then I can see your point.
Also, please explain your "moderated over time."
It looks like Wikipedia has its dates wrong (it says 2001), since the New York Times supports your date as well, but that doesn't change the fact that he is not rotting in prison (he was released years ago) as the earlier comment claims. Furthermore, Iqbal's allegations against the government went on to be heard by the Supreme Court (see Ashcroft v. Iqbal).
Propaganda has no place on Slashdot. Stick to the facts (that's not directed at you, Maow, but is just a general statement regarding this whole discussion).
I particularly like iran.usembassy.gov's handling of media and the links to 'Play jpg' which when clicked displays an image. What next, 'See enlarged audio'?
Yeah, but what most people think of as Mexican food is really Tex-Mex. Be prepared for disappointment!
"Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day; set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life
I dont get it. It looks ok to me...?
Are you saying its good or bad?
Sure it has some pro US propaganda, but its their government site, thats what I'd expect...
Just the one with the most prisoners. And legal bribery of your politicians. And more military than basically the world combined.
Utopia |<---------- CONTINUUM ---------->| Dystopia
Idiot.
Yes, you are. And a secondary analphabet, apparently.
Upward mobility is a slippery slope - the higher you climb the more you show your ass.
... by being the best example of those ideals it can, not by bombing the democracy into them.
And this ass-hat works for a public-relations company too. Way to go Insight! Your employer must be really proud of ya!
My country is certainly far from perfect, but I'll gladly live here compared to the other seriously screwed-up countries out there. And yeah, perhaps we should mind our business! Right up to the point when those same countries that criticize our way of life come crawling back begging us to help them out once again.
Did you get turned down for a green card again?
Microsoft said it was in the mail... :)
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
I would say that objectively things are even better in the Northern European countries like Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Finland. They offer all those freedoms plus better social care plus less religious nuts.
- Raynet --> .
Damm right. The USA has no moral high ground left to take shots at any other country about ANYTHING.
We sold it all.
I was with you until Pearl Harbor, then it all went down hill...
Pearl Harbor also happened in a middle of a war, the one US was silly enough to ignore up until then. If US had assisted in the Blitz, Pearl Harbour would not have happened because those ships would be at sea.
Also, "Out of nowhere"? That's a little overrated isn't it? Most bombings are out of nowhere otherwise they are generally prevented. Name a single bombing that the target knew about and let happen (besides industrial mining and the likes).
And I don't blame Iran either. Iranian politics may range from backward through stupid to evil, but their jingoism is carefully stoked and fueled by the US, and this move is just the latest of that.
This wasn't diplomacy, and it wasn't an embassy, virtual or otherwise. An embassy's job is to interact and negotiate with the Iranian government on behalf of the US, not "inform" Iranian citizens of what the US government thinks about the Iranian government. Calling it an embassy is an insult.
Real diplomacy would require an actual conversation between US and Iranian leadership, with both sides coming to a table ready to make concessions and compromises. And setting up a real embassy would require sending a real ambassador to Iran. Doing either of these would require balls, both for the US and Iran. That'd be a courageous foreign policy. If the US were to propose this to Iran, it would likely be rejected (especially now), but making the offer at all would be radical progress.
Hear hear!
I looked at Wikipedia (as I agree the facts are important), and I'm wondering if there's a confluence of stories here.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashcroft_v._Iqbal#Facts:
The Washington Post story I quoted said,
How close is Hicksville to Brooklyn? Here's what I found ( http://www.findlocalweather.com/forecast.php?forecast=pass&pass=distances&dpp=0&pands1x=Hicksville%2C+NY&pands2x=brooklyn%2C+ny&Find+distance=How+far+is+it%3F ):
It appears that Javed Iqbal is a rather common Pakistani name, so maybe the Wikipedia entry incorrectly conflates the two guys, only one being the satellite TV installer?
Fair enough, original post was incorrect, rotted in prison perhaps. However, original post was correct in the charges against some guy by that name. The guy hurling accusation of anti-American propaganda was wrong on that, and gave an example apparently of a different case.
Cheers
Not the U.S that is for sure. We don't need super powers, this is a modern concept based on the heritage of WW2 when all the european powers came out completely redimensioned. The US (if not for the Soviet Union) would have had complete free reign to do whatever the fuck it wanted over the entire world. And even with the Soviet Union, the US managed to bring untold sufference and misery in South and Central America.
We need a multipolar world, not a unipolar world with a bully running amok. And stop, please stop considering the US somehow the saviour of the world. You're not and have never been any kind of saviour.
You advocate democracy within your own borders and move quickly to silence democracy in other countries when their democratically elected governments don't align to US views. Does Chile ring a bell ?
Hint: The US has only been around under 300 years. Have a look at world history before that time. Let me know how great things were.
I guess it would be a bit difficult to distinguish differences between that period and now that are unrelated to the existence of the USA. A better approach to answering your question might be to take a look at what the USA has accomplished recently in the area of peace and war.
1. The USA saved Europe from the nazi assholes. Probably the most world-changing event of recent history. Subsequently they got into a cold war with Russia, which was kind of a pity ...
2. The cold war spilled over into Afghanistan (which was communist at the time), resulting in the USA funding the Mujahideen guerilla movement, which ultimately led to the bombing of the twin towers and the invasion of Afghanistan. About the same happened in Vietnam, where the northern communists and the southern democrats were fighting a war and the USA decided to fight along. Fortunately, this has not resulted in things with planes and skyskrapers. Quite the opposite happened: the world was overwhelmed by Vietname loempias:-)
3. Due to ties with Germany, the Iran of the WW2 era was invaded by both the USSR and Brittain, which were after its railroads and oil. When the war was over, Iran became a democratic nation that subsequently took back their oil wells. The USA (supported by the UK) somehow thought it would be a nice idea to overthrow that government in Operation Ajax. This eventually led to the theocratic government of the Iran of today.
4. These events in Iran worried Iraq. These worries eventually resulted in the Iran-Iraq war, in which the USA supported Iraq. This war ended in a tie and it left Iraq with an economic disaster which they tried to compensate by stealing Kuwait. This eventually led to the Iraq war.
So what would the world have looked like without the USA? Europe would probably still be the Third Reich but the Cold War would never have happened and Afghanistan and Iran would have been democracies. So it would have been horrible for Europe - or at least for its civilians - but for the world as a whole it might actually have turned out quite OK. So as far as I'm concerned, it's a tie. However, being a European, I'm quite glad the USA was around to save our ass;-) Also I'm a big fan of Vietnamese food:P The average Afghan, Vietnamese, Iranian or Iraqi person would probably thing otherwise, though.
0x or or snor perron?!
We helped defeat the Nazis, which rescued the Soviets, and begat the Cold War which begat Jihadists etc.
I'm sorry what?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_World_War_II
You need to get your history straight. Soviets didn't need rescuing, you rescued Europe from becoming an extension of CCCP.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1390229/posts
As for who would be better off with what, who can say...
If they're okay with it, I'm okay with it.
But if you searched for "Pearl Harbour Attack" and found a link to act of war in 1941 and a Hawaiian Rugby Team by the same name, and it didn't cause you to give it a second glance,...
That would be strange, wouldn't it?
Although, on second (or third) thought, not a bad name for a sports team in an aggressive sport. Wouldn't work for cricket.
Didn't miss that part. But it doesn't mean that there was no affiliation with NFL Europa.
Although it appears there wasn't, so I'm somewhat surprised.
tragedy + time = humor
while s1867 gets passed and the military can detain any american citizen for any amount of time they want to quibble about Iran and it's policies?
Axis would have won regardless of US involvement. Germany and Italy declared war on the United States after Pearl Harbor December 11 1941.
On Jan 5th 1942 General Zhukov began of a major Red Army offensive and Germany had been retreating since then.
US have accelerated Axis defeat, but it did not decide the outcome of WW2.
So can any country just make an Embassy in any other country, or is permission needed?
Ok can't stop. Ultimately this whole mess was caused by the central European powers that were responsible for the First World War of which now only Germany and France are left as somewhat powerful nations. And they though it would somehow be a great idea to start the Greatest Monetary Experiment Ever (the Euro) and draw in all nations around them. Another great idea of them was to transfer the sovereign power of those nations to a hardly democratic central government in which 23 official languages are spoken. Without consent of their inhabitants, that is. The future is left to the imagination of the reader but let's hope the USA sticks around ...
0x or or snor perron?!
It is the place of the US to stand up for unalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Ok, so if some country were to advocate sedition in the US because what you have right now is a corrupt government, bought and paid by corporations that would be a good thing. Is that right ? After all US citizens have proved to be unable to change the system. The end justifies the means.
Oh I forgot silly me, that is justified ONLY when its the US enlightining the world with their superior moral views.
This isn't surprising. I really doubt the US gov is stupid enough to think that Iran wouldn't censor it. They likely built it so Iran can censor it. It's just another PR stunt by the US to further alienate Iran from the rest of the world.
It isn't a coincidence that Spies are outed in the US at very politically expedient times. The Russian spies were "found" during the peak of anti-missile talks , an Iranian spy was "found" recently just when Iran's Nuclear issues were reemerging. A Syrian spy was found recently as well. It seems clear that the US gov knows and tolerates these people, until they can score an advantage out of them. Monitoring known spies is better than kicking them out and giving foreign intelligence a chance to refine their skills.
The US isn't the root of all evil, but in the modern Middle East, it's the root of most of it.
And the route of it.
Seriously though, as if this wouldn't be construed as an unfriendly act/act of war if it were done by any other nation.
Are you saying Iran needs to implement a slashdot type moderation system for its internet and allow its citizens to moderate the US sites into "oblivion"?
Sure beats being imprisoned and... beaten to death...
From http://iran.usembassy.gov/
"In democracies, respecting rights isn't a choice leaders make day-by-day, it is the reason they govern."
"When a government hides its work from public view, hands out jobs and money to political cronies, administers unequal justice, looks away as corrupt bureaucrats and businessmen enrich themselves at the people's expense, that government is failing its citizens," stated U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton during the opening of the multi-country Open Government Partnership (OGP) Forum last week.
-- Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton
I would argue that the U.S. has already failed its citizens.
How about you don't lump us all together as imperialist, culture-bound yahoos?
I have lived in the US and I would never lump Americans together as imperialists. Actually, I wouldn't dream of lumping them together as *anything*. Not a clever thing to do with Americans.
OTOH, the US as a country - meaning the elected government - has imperialist policies and attitude, and has had them for a while now. It is up to US citizens to decide whether they care. In recent decades, the response has been underwhelming.
Gravitation is a theory, not a fact.
Name a single bombing that the target knew about and let happen (besides industrial mining and the likes).
9/11 ? :D
Propaganda has no place on slashdot but this whole story is about propaganda. A foreign embassy or diplomatic mission http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embassy is about maintaining relations between governments and providing resources for legally visiting citizens.
The virtual embassy is a total failure in that it is nothing more that marketing, public relations and propaganda tool of the US Government.
It would not be accepted for real foreign embassies to produce anti-government marketing campaigns in the country they are being hosted by, so why would it be accepted by virtual ones and really who would be arrogant and stupid enough to do it in that manner, gees Hillary go play with some cigars instead and stop embarrassing your country ie take out anything that would not appear in a normal embassy web site.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
I try to not give into conspiracy theories :)
But just this once, assuming you are right, they still did not know it will be a "bombing". Everyone thought it would be a hostage situation, up until the first plane crashed.
Unless of course you argue that they still knew and let it happen, but the burden of proof is on you there my friend.
u mad bro?
Start with your own damn country.
Oh how you assume that Press TV is for US citizens... sure, they broadcast in English and are critical of the United States, but then again most of the world speaks English and is critical of the United States as well. Therefore, Press TV is generally well received worldwide; I don't really think how Americans feel about them matters that much to them.
I expect Press TV be biased, but I also expect bias from the BBC, Reuters, Associated Press, New York Times, Al Jazeera, Russia Today, and many others. Sometimes Press TV has the kind of bias that is worth paying attention to. Sometimes it doesn't.
I'm sorry but your logic is flawed. The EU is one of the few power blocs, granted not as powerful as it once was, that is actually challenging both American imperialism in the direct sense of military deployment but also of American business interests run amok.
The American people have been spoon fed certain concepts for the past 70 years that they are so engrained that they don't even consider the possibility of other solutions, other ideas or other perspectives. I'm probably going to get modded down as flamebait or whatever else people use to express their disagreement with me but I'm going to say this anyway.
American foreign policy would be a joke if it didn't come attached with the consequences of death, poverty and destruction because of it. I'm going to talk about Israel first so anyone who just wants to call me an Anti-Semite because I dare to criticise the government of Israel should just skip ahead. Israel has performed some of the worst acts any government has committed in this past decade. They are directly responsible for the deaths of countless innocent civilians in the West Bank and Gaza. They have demolished whole neighbourhoods and leave the population with nothing but rubble without any compensation, any housing alternative, no basic sanitary conditions and without so much as an explanation for why they did it. Israel have killed at least 9 journalists in the last 10 years despite many of them wearing the required PRESS and TV related flak jackets, some being British and Italian, one being killed from as close as 10 metres. They have committed violations of the Geneva conventions in the form of collective punishment, establishing civilian populations in occupied territories as well as the countless number of human rights violations. They have continued to develop their nuclear arsenal in secret refusing to allow inspection of their facilities. Israel commits many of the acts which the US condemns of other regional players and yet not only does it not condemn these actions, it actively supports them. These aren't just some AC's opinion either, it is the opinion of the UN Council on Human Rights, the International Red Cross, the EU Parliament, Amnesty International and a half dozen other independent international organisations. Despite widespread condemnation of individual atrocities by the Israeli state which have received near universal condemnations from the world community, the United States still supports and funds Israel without any reservation on its actions.
The US continues its policy of supporting governments which will be sympathetic to the US economic and military interests without any regard for the massive human rights violations that those regimes will commit in the mean time. They have replaced one dictatorship with another, directly overthrown legitimately elected governments, have flooded money, weapons and training to terrorist (by US definitions at any rate) organisations which are attempting to seize power from legitimately elected governments. The US has launched attacks in foreign countries with little regard for civilian deaths so long as it achieves their aims, a double standard of the highest order. It supported tyrannical organisations which oppressed and enslaved their own people simply because they weren’t communists. All of this happened in South American and Central American in such high amounts that it has left the regions economically crippled in some cases to this very day. I once saw a testimony by a US official who suggested that Hugo Chavez doesn’t have the US interests at heart of course he doesn’t, he’s the leader of Venezuela, he has Venezuelan interests at heart! But the arrogance of the US to think that if you don’t support the US that you are against democracy or freedom has left the world feeling very resentful of such a statement in the face of such overwhelming hypocrisy.
The US citizens need to realise the actions of their past governments will not be healed overnight by electing a Presiden
I feel that we really can use more of the cheap oil.
www.foxnews.com is also a web site set up for US citizens to read propaganda and it is still up as well.
blindly antisocialist = antisocial
On that note: http://boingboing.net/2011/03/08/passport-ownership-p.html
Correlation, causation and all that but somewhat interesting.
The main thing to think about is that if one consider the surface area of USA, a person living there can travel from winter to summer and back again without ever showing a passport, encountering someone not speaking english, or accepting payment in dollars.
comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
The root of many problems in the Middle East is the US Foreign Policy and how it is implemented there. If the US got out of the Middle East (dismantled all of its bases and withdrew all forces), you would find a lot of anti-American sentiment disappear.
The root cause of Osama Bin Laden's complaints is the US presence/actions in the Middle East. If there were no US bases in Saudi Arabia and no US involvement in the Gulf Wars then 9/11 would not have happened. Do some reading on why Osama Bin Laden issued various fatwas against the USA.
On the other side of that,, someone obviously invited the US to be there, which obviously leads one to the conclusion that the rulers in the Middle East are a bunch of children that don't know how to play nice. Why the US thinks it needs to be involved in their little childish spats always boils down to one reason: oil.
Now what would happen with Hezbollah? That's harder to know.
>> They probably love the idea
We honestly couldn't give a fuck.
This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
as long as you do not speak up against wall street, bend over so TSA can stuff their arm up your insides and limits "whoever" to the wall street appointed options.
comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
Thats exactly whats happening....
The criticizm here isn't about the virtual embassy...its about the laughable idea that the US government would criticize anyone about surveillance or censorship right now. They are being called on the fact that they engage in both, and thus have already bulldozed their moral high ground flat.
Ideally, nobody...
Still, i find myself thinking of the Dune reference volume where the seat of the empire was tracked all the way back to Alexander the great, with a stop in London and Washington before heading into space.
comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
Actually, I would think that all the oceans would drain into a single large ocean/sink hole, the reduction in gravity throws everything in orbit out of kilter (possibly even the moon?), and millions die of famine.
On the plus side, the middle east problems would be the least of people's worries. Higher on the list (of survivors) would be: "Is my country going to disappear next?"
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
And all that whining about how it was insensitive because the TWIN TOWERS were blown up?
The EU loves to sit back and let the USA do all the dirty work and then bitch about it.
What is this supposed to mean. You think you did the EU a favor with the 'war on terror' or such?
They have a concept of Iran, but that's about it. If you're Iranian, you don't exist, in their heads, and so what happens to you *doesn't matter*.
This is pretty much true of any remote population. To the people of {A}, {B} is just a place name. To the people of {B}, {A} is just a place name. Lines in the sand and the flags we plant near them.
The difference between comedy and tragedy is ones proximity to the situation.
I personally think the whole thing with Iran stinks and smells like a CIA plant. look at Libya one of the first things the "rebels' did was set up a central bank, what kind of fucking rag tag bunch of freedom fighters rush to set up a central fricking bank before the firing is even halfway over? Not to mention watch the video of MoMo getting killed and nearly all his captors are wearing Qatar military uniforms and hey, guess who has a large base in Qatar? That would be the US military. Now there are 20,000 plus Russian stinger knockoff that old MoMo had bought in the hands of who the fuck knows, all because old MoMo threatened to sell his oil for gold instead of supporting the petro-dollar. Not saying MoMo wasn't a douche, but the whole thing smells like astroturf by the CIA using the Arab Springs as cover.
Sadly the USA has been the puppet of AIPAC and Israel for many years now thanks to what I call the "Jesus won't come back! Come back Jesus come back!" brigade that wouldn't care if we had to slaughter every brown person in the middle east to make Israel happy as long as there is a Jew in Zion.
So i'm sure we'll get lots more "teh evil Iranians want to kill us ZOMFG!" propaganda in the coming months, just as we saw that to this day something like 40% of US citizens think we attacked Iraq because of 9/11. The Jews don't like the idea of anyone else in the region having the bomb even thought they have dozens if not hundreds of them, but frankly after Iraq any country in that area that didn't kiss the US bankster and military ass would be nuts NOT to want a bomb, as its the only way to keep the warmongers in the halls of power from running you down.
final prediction? Now that we are pulling out if Iraq so we have the troops it'll be a toss up as to whether we go after Iran or Syria, neither country should be feeling too safe right now. Sadly the MSM has gotten so damned good at propaganda the POTUS could come out and say Iran caused 9/11 and many of the people would buy it without a second thought.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Yes, the GP was wrong by using the word "everything". It's called a hyperbole. Are you claiming that nothing is wrong with US? Are you saying that no problems would disappear if US disappeared tomorrow?
What are the different competing mainstream political views in, ummm...., Malaysia? In China? What are the relative strengths of different opinions of the US among far-eastern Russians'? You probably don't know, most people in most countries probably don't know, and it's hardly surprising. I happen to have heard of Michele Bachmann, and of Fox News, and the tea partiers, and Sarah Palin and quite a few others and know a little of US politics.....but I'm an Economist-reading English speaker in a democratic country with a substantially free press and historical links to the US. I know more about US politics than politics in my neighbouring countries. Of course most people in most countries will have a simplified lumped-together view of the US, based on local and US media, the actions of its government, how US-associated products are advertised and perceived, and so on. He might be right, and remain right if he put any other country in that sentence instead of 'US'. Average citizens tend to have simplified views because there are many countries and foreign politics is just not that interesting...they have better things to do.
We tell you what to do because you've proven to the world along with Iraq,Afghanistan and others that you are a bunch of stupid children getting in the way of world progress and you should be lucky there wasn't a REAL president in office who would nuke your fucking desert into a SEA OF GLASS to be opened as an amusement park years from now when the radiation dies down enough to pump oil again. Hell, we have more than enough enough Mexicans and Negras lookin for a place to call their own. We'll just give it to them. Better yet, we could conquer your stupid asses and give you to China in payment for debt. You think the west are devils? You ain't seen nothin' yet Ahab! They'll level Mecca and use you as manual labor to do it. They'll drop your Mosques till theres not one stone left standing on another. See China ain't real big on religion, but they are into making a profit off the helpless. You helpless fucking morons who can't get along with the locals in any country outside your own are about to outlive your welcome.
I weep for the righteous and harmless among you cause you got the whole world hating Islam and the good get judged with the bad. No virgins for you, towel boy, you go straight to Western Hell where you belong.
One of the Nordic countries.
> 1. The USA saved Europe from the nazi assholes. Probably the most world-changing event of recent history. Subsequently they got into a cold war with Russia, which was kind of a pity ...
Actually they 'saved' us from the Soviet Union, which was doing pretty well defeating the Nazis on their own by the time the USA joined the war. The cold war was also between the USA and the Soviet Union. Saying it was between the USA and Russia is also *technically* sort of true, but about as misleading as saying it was between Texas and the Soviet Union.
You completely ignored my point and threw in a red herring. In debate terms, that's called "losing", but I'll address the red herring anyway. Everyone has a right to an opinion on anything. The US has a right to an opinion on Iran. And the US is not at fault for "inciting rebellion" when Iran's own people grow dissatisfied with Iran's government.
The clamp down on the OWS is not a free speech issue. The OWS protestors are welcome to show up every day and protest. They are just not allowed to camp out in public parks/someone else's property unless those places are designated for such activity/they have the permission of the owners. The clamp down occurred because the OWS "protestors" were for all intents and purposes living at those locations. The rest of your points have validity. Including about how stupid this website was in the first place.
Personally I love the quote from the website that sites Hillary Clinton (speaking as a member of the current Administration) saying that behaviors of the current Administration are a demonstration of the government failing its citizens.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
The US isn't totally uncaring about the Iranian regime's human rights abuses or weapons of mass destruction. They do have oil, after all.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Who ever rated this funny needs a talking to. Thus comment is one of the most insightful ones on this thread!
But as soon as we did we would have dozens of Countries asking or begging for our support.
Are you aiming for +5 Funny? Last time I saw this argument it was called the White Man's burden or something.
The fact that you're instead modded as +5 Insightful sickens me.
Don't quote me on this.
A little known inconvenient truth. The world always has, and will continue to have empires and nations of super power status. Now that we got that out of the way, ask yourself this. WHO would you rather have this title?
What truth? The complaint is not about the US having super power status. It's about the US abusing its super power status. The hypothetical idea that some other evil regime would do worse if they had superpower status is NO EXCUSE for the crimes and abuses committed by the US government.
Don't quote me on this.
The US does this, IRAN does that, CHINA does this other....
When the hell are people gonna wake up and realize these are not countries they are governments which are a great deal smaller than the number of people living in a bordered land mass.
When you remove the soldier pawns and any other pawns what you have left is something less than 1%.
I find it very insulting to know that stories are being written insinuating I'\m part of some psychopathic collective.
I am not part of that crap and I'm certain I share this sentiment with a large majority of people on this planet.
ICE could always seize the domain on grounds of support for terrorism...
Copyright is already enough of an excuse and it doesn't even get anyone killed.
did i understand your argument correctly?
Then you're going to love it when the Chinese and Russians take our place as super powers. I will enjoy watching your rioting, pathetic masses of children being tortured and then crushed under the boot heels of actual nationalist imperialists on CNN (well, before those self same governments kick the free press out, anyway).
If you feel the need to dream up improbable scenarios to justify the actual and real atrocities committed by the US government, I pity you.
Don't quote me on this.
Maybe the whole WORLD just plain sucks ass.
"And make more people"
This is the United States of America. We don't make people do anything politically other than try to convince them to change their vote. Given the current pigheadedness of the public convincing is quite a tall order. And the republicans in congress have been setting the standard for pigheadedness of late.
You understand that 'Blitz' is a very common American Football term, don't you? You also realize that the name, most likely, was agreed upon by the local club owners.
"Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
Freedom == Self Control. Literally. Go look it up and generalize it yourself if you don't believe me.
If you have a head on your shoulders you'd quickly see self control is what holds being smart from being crazy.
You're all fucking goddamn batshit insane. Snap out of it man. Life is beautiful.
The fact that you think Al-Jazeera is controlled by Iran doesn't exactly fill me with confidence of your expertise here...
I just hope to hell they're running this scheme on an isolated server and the REST of our infrastructure is SAFE.
You just KNOW every clown in the world is gonna try to bust it.
Further case in point, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Blitz_(American_football).
Yes, it appears that an American football team, based in London, named themselves after the 76 nights of consecutive bombing.
How'd America like a European-style football (soccer) team based in NY naming itself the New York Nine Elevens? Boggles the mind.
You know that old saying "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity?" It could be good old fashioned American ignorance at work here. I'm American and I can tell you that a really large number of Americans operate under the principle that "If it didn't happen here, it didn't happen". It's worth mentioning that "blitz" is an American football term for a play where the defense sends more rushers after the quarterback than normal (normal is 3 or 4 depending on the defense). Blitzing is a high risk, high reward kind of play. If it works, the quarterback may be tackled ("sacked") for a loss, throw the ball away for an incomplete pass or be intercepted on a rushed pass. If it fails and the quarterback gets off a successful pass, the receiver may get a bigger gain than normal due to few defenders being available in coverage. I suspect someone on the team thought that London Blitz sounded like a cool, footbally name for a team and was just completely ignorant of the London Blitz in WWII. After all, we're living in a country where people under 30 actually believe that "prolly" is a real word, so I certainly would tend to blame ignorance here as the main cause.
While I agree we do some rather eff'd up stuff, we aren't "everything" that is wrong with the world, we just help it along.
A lot of citizens would agree with you
I suspect this is all just a polar bear plot, to get one step nearer the penguins.
We (the rest of the world) would love it if the U.S. would withdraw to it's isolationist policies of the early 20th century. The world would probably be a much better place, expect for one thing. The U.S. still fucks up the common (as in tragedy of the commons). The U.S. shares our planet, and our atmosphere, and our oceans. If the U.S. could shut itself away and pollute only it's own atmosphere and water supplies, I for one would vote for that.
At least the parent was considerate, thoughful and thought provoking. I know what f*ck means, but seeing f*uck, I know instantly that the parent poster has a much more defined vocabulary, and therefore smarter, than myself. I can't imagine why they weren't instantly set to +1 insightful.
The White House condemned the move, calling Iran's internet policies 'an electronic curtain of surveillance and censorship around its people.
Really? REALLY? F*UCK YOU U.S. You are EVERYTHING that is wrong with the world. Go f*cking away and stop crying about people why just want to live their lifes peacefully. You worthless pieces of shit who attack other countries and everyone who doesn't like your limited religious views. You are the scumbag of earth. Go eat your shit. You want to know why we dont like you? BECAUSE YOU TRY TO TELL US WHAT TO DO TO, YOU STUPID SCUMBAGS.
I8-D
Oh? Shall we talk about how "Conspiracy of Silence" regarding the Franklin Scandal was pulled off the air here in the US? Or how about the initial but thankfully failed efforts to block "Atomic Cafe" from being shown in the US? Or the successful attempt to keep "The Crimes of Mena" out of the Washington Post?
Bit of the ol' pot and kettle going on here!
Not sure why you're being modded as informative. There are some large inaccuracies in your comment:
"...we destroyed their democracy in 1953 because they were trying to nationalize their oil fields..."
First, Iran didn't have, what we in the West would call, a democracy in 1953; it was more like democracy in its infancy. All indications was that Communism would take hold if Mossadegh had his way.
Second, context is everything. Operation Ajax occurred less than a month after the Korean War ended. The Cold War was just getting hot and Mossadegh's dealings with the Communist party in Iran ran afoul of the US policy of Containment (of the spread of Communism). Containment was the driving factor for US geopolitics from the end of WWII until 1991, not oil.
It's easy to point out the flaws of US foreign policy when you extract them from the context of history.
Why is Iran the problem, if they did that for Egypt or Syria, or China, you would have the same response, yet Iran are the bad guys now???
Come on.....I understand that as a person I see this as a very censored government keeping its people uninformed and stupid on purpose in order to control them easily...but it is THEIR country.....next time when you invade, do it properly and assimilate them into the US population and constitution....end of story.....
You can not cry over another countries policies (and only that one yet others are just as bad....) and then figure you can push them into what you want them to do....
I have lost some respect for the US government now....
I have this idea that someday the US will grow up to be the Nation it should be...the father of them all, and start offering assimilation packages to all countries out there...if the other country wants to join up, they get special privileges no other country has, a massive backbone....but all they r belongs to US....
they become another state that has to follow the constitution and the laws of the US. This would grow until there would be very few countries left (3rd world)
and only the big ones would be left, and by that time the US population would be so massive that it could dictate better living conditions for all states(countries) within it....and also make it officially a world union.
Let it happen naturally by offering this to others (instead of Hitler's way by taking that country over) and you will get down to one world nation with one set of rules, and those set of rules defined by the people....instead of dictators in other countries that tell the people what they want them to do....!!!
And don't even get me started on what we let the Saudi's get away with.
And South America...holy shit. That whole continent is like one giant CIA clusterfuck.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Ok, that's it! I'm firing up battlefield and invading Tehran! Too bad no Iranians can stop me! Muahahahaha!
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
... Corporate p0wnership of your election process. Countrywide/BofA and the bank and wall street bailouts. Not one bailout bankster in jail. ...
Wait a minute..."p0wnership"? "Bankster"? Where have you been since Penny Arcade last saw you?
You sir, are an idiot.
You don't seem to understand how conspiracy theories work.... The evidence is that the evidence doesn't exist anymore. That's why you know the evidence was real.
That sounds more like a religion
Personally, I love it when we promote democracy in Middle Eastern countries and are then subsequently horrified at an Islamist majority being elected.
Kind of the important part about democracy is that the people choose how they want. Oops.
We spend a couple of trillion fighting a heavy-handed Islamist government in Afghanistan that runs a lot of Sharia law, and then we end up with (not so heavy-handed) Islamists elected in Iraq. And Egypt. And probably other places that kicked out old dictators under the "Arab Spring". Oh God, I do appreciate the irony.
Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
I couldn't find a single thing in the Wikipedia article that suggested that the "London Blitz" football team was started by Americans... just that it was an American style football team. This is akin to a group of Americans starting a Cricket team and claiming that it was started by the British. Further citation to back up your assertion?
No no, with religion, the evidence is there, you just don't have enough faith to see it yet.
Our behavior didn't change after communism failed.
"I've never been to the region, granted, but I'm a proud European born imperialist American who celebrates American hegemony."
And, therefore, your entire post can be regarded as a biased viewpoint and nothing much more. I must applaud you, however, as most imperialists don't have the balls to say what they actually are. They like to yammer on about "freedom" and "promoting democracy". You are different. You represent an HONEST (although disagreeable, to me) viewpoint. It is often those who have who like to trumpet their safety and "freedom".
There is no such thing as "more free". There are degrees of servitude and then there is pure freedom. Anything less than pure freedom is simply some degree (no matter how small or large) of servitude. This is not an opinion. This is simple logic. See, we can view it from the opposite side "pure servitude or degrees of freedom". In this case, we would need to apply the "degrees of freedom" to slaves in Rome, serfs in feudal Europe, Stalinist USSR, Nazi Germany, and even our current neo-feudalism in the US. Given this viewpoint, they all had a certain degree of freedom, be it small or large. As you can see, no truly FREE person would allow any degree of non-freedom, otherwise it contradicts the definition of freedom. Hence, logic dictates that you are either totally free, or are experiencing some degree of servitude.
As a favor to the rest of us, please don't litter your posts with ancillary historical facts that can be Googled or searched on Wiki. It doesn't make your argument any stronger.
Or hallucinogenics.
The US having a bit less of an influence in world affairs (through choice or through, well, obsolescence?) would be nicer, as they might even seem more legitimate if they weren't able to be interpreted as "that big bully in the west that thinks it owns the world."
I mean, people would try, but a lot less would fall for it.
That's just like saying the world will always have institutional world-wide slavery, or witch-hunts, or colonialism. You can't evolve society if you base all of your decisions on the belief that we can't change.
A good chunk of the police departments participating in the coordinated crackdown on OWS were given (and followed) strict orders to terrorize participants by using zipcuffs tight enough to cut off blood, and going as close to (but just enough not to) breaking legs/feet when arresting them as to force compliance through fear.
So that IS the kind of actions you'd see in a minor police state that is looking to avoid international intervention.
Public parks are public - they're "owned" by the people. If people choose to camp out on them as a means of protesting against the governments' policies wrt the bail-outs and Wall Street greed and influence on the political process, it's a legitimate free-speech issue.
So, what would you say if they rotated out - each protester left the site for 1 hour a day, so that they were not "living there" - would that be okay? How about if they made it 12 hours a day - and half took the day shift, and the other half the night shift? Would that be okay?
Or is it just that it's only okay to protest during office hours? In which case, you're denying the first amendment rights of people who work during that period ... as well as it being an arbitrary and unjustifiable restraint on free speech.
Now, let's look at it from the other side. If the OWS protesters WERE to be considered as living there, as you claim, then they have a 4th Amendment right to be free of search and seizure except with a warrant, duly issued. And that warrant has to clearly identify them, not just as Jane Doe # 27, as per the 4th Amendment.
And p0wnage is a term well-understood by the community, which perfectly describes what the lobbyists have done to the political process.
I am outraged or something like that.
Are you really this stupid? Is anybody?
A British sports team, playing in Britain, with British players, names themselves for a tragic event that occured in Britain 70 years ago. How is this the fault of the US?
I've checked: no one is blaming crass Europeans for naming the San Jose soccer team the Earthquakes, in spite of the 63 people who died in the Bay Area in an earthquake just some 20 years ago. Similarly, Canadians get off scot-free in spite of the tastelessly named Colorado Avalanche. 11 people just this past year died in avalanches in the US! What terrible people Canadians are, celebrating human misery.
lol...a perfect example of the pot calling the kettle black.
"The clamp down on the OWS is not a free speech issue."
Actually... it very well may be. There is considerable debate regarding this very notion... Please don't rant and pretend that the speech aspect of this is settled.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/18/us-usa-protests-law-idUSTRE7AH2OE20111118
http://newsandinsight.thomsonreuters.com/Legal/News/2011/11_-_November/ANALYSIS__Is_sleeping_speech_/
http://news.yahoo.com/analysis-sleeping-zuccotti-park-free-speech-232305668.html
That the protestors are breaking existing law is NOT the same argument as whether or not those laws interfere with freedom of speech rights.
Those laws are being tested, as is the definition of what is considered to be freedom of speech.
Speaking as an authority on the hypothetical just makes you sound silly... Until this topic hits the Supreme Court, both arguments (laws restricting freedom of speech -leading to a valid protest being re-interpreted or discarded... AS WELL AS... freedom of speech trumping existing laws - leading to those laws being re-interpreted or discarded) have merit.
Sorry that your strong opinion isn't yet based in solid fact... time may prove you to be correct. For now, you're just ranting. =)
where is sue? sue is idle.
Do you base this straw man on anything, or is it something you just cooked up in your mom's basement? I've known Iran quite well, ever since they took our people hostage in 1979. I know exactly what kind of people they are-- including the wonderful ones I've had a chance to meet and work with. Those are the intelligent, ambitious ones who left that disgusting mess of a failed state.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
My bad phrasing. I realized as I hit Submit that the "other" in that sentence would be misleading.
Nonetheless we don't block Iranian websites. Or anything else.
Umm, no. If there were enough demand for Al-Jazeera, there would be someone showing it.
Almighty dollar, remember? We're the Evil Americans who worship the dollar, and we're not going to lose a few of them because we refrained from showing a channel that's anti-American...
Would be hard for me, I don't do cable. Easier to go to their website. Which, oddly enough, is the first hit when I google al-jazeera. I see that the Egyptian Army has decided it doesn't like this whole Democracy thing....
Nah, you're probably right - I should have used "Farsi".
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
If you think the US was uninvolved in WW2 before Pearl Harbor, you really need to find a new source of history information. The US was not explicitly at war until then, but mostly because a lot of the populace was still war-fatigued from WW1. The US Navy had been escorting supply ships across the Atlantic to aid the UK for years (and thus having minor skirmishes with u-boats) before any explicit declaration of war. The fleet at Pearl Harbor was there in expectation of getting involved in the war. The government, military, and information agencies of the US were all well aware of what was happening, but the populace was tired and unmotivated.
Then Japan decided to do something direct, big, and unmistakeable.
it is not the place of the US to incite rebellion in Iran
Oh the horrors! Someone put up a website! Now all the Iranians will have to login and read all of it. You know, people wouldn't rebel unless they agree. If they really are content with their lifes, they would see the site, possibly read it, say "I don't agree", and log off.
As long as they don't have a tent or structure they aren't living there'. At least that's been the general rule until now.
In Portland(OR), you can sleep in the open.
really, if they say you can't and arrest you, they will need to start arresting every homeless person; which might not be a bad thing but it would certainly be an expensive endeavor.
Interesting 4th amendment point.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
She should have told that to Blagojevich!
I am unaware of any searches done on the people at the OWS encampments, except when they were arrested for trespassing when they were told to leave. I believe that the line was crossed when they started sleeping at these locations. If they had rotated out so that at any given time the overwhelming majority were awake that would move it in to being something that could at least be argued as protected on First Amendment grounds.
I am not really interested in arguing with you about the behavior of the spoiled brat children of the 1% who make up the majority of the Occupy protesters.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
Only a moron would compare response to WWII to something that happened in the 21st century.
Completely ignoring other events of the time? Just stupid.
The events are not comparable. Not at all.
And for the record, most Americans would probably find the American football team name appalling if they understood the London blitz.
That said, they did NOT name themselves after that event. Blitz is a football term, and they are in London.
In 1941, the US and the world was a vastly different place.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
And with conspiracy theories, you are smart enough to see the evidence.
It's the same thing.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
It is only being debated by those who were cheering the protests on. Zucotti park is private property, after the owners asked them to leave, they were trespassing. The other articles are from Rueters which fully supported the "Occupy" movement.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
The "Virtual Embassy" nonsense was a political stunt from the start. Did anybody seriously think it would not be blocked by the Iranian government? Politicians aren't known for being very clever, but even they must have seen this coming.
Yes, actually it did.
The red army offensive would never have gotten all the way to Berlin without the US. And to think there efforts would have helped England and
It was stupid of Germany to invade Russia at that time., and the Red Army work valiantly and heroically to beat the Germans back, but they would never have gone all the way. Without the US efforts, Germany would have focused more men in the homeland.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Uhhh, yes. Having an opinion on anything and everything and not being persecuted for it is part of freedom. Having nobody listen to it and/or think you are insane for holding that opinion is also part of freedom.
The nature of man. From a cultural aspect you can subdue it, but only for a limited time before it too becomes eroded and corrupted with our true genetic nature. It's the ultimate battle of mind over matter. The force of nature that moves chemistry, DNS, and ultimately our genetic predisposition will always be at the heart of human civilization. And as nature has proven through evolution, only the strong survive to displace the meek. In the end, violence wins out in whatever form it make take. Be it at the tip of a sword, barrel of a gun, or receiving end of a thermonuclear warhead.
In short, yes. We can't change much as you think we can. You can obfuscate human nature, but you can't really change the end results much. Unless you want to do something profoundly radical such as re-write the human genome, perhaps.
Life is not for the lazy.
Nice how you overlooked the other 150+ wars / skirmishes mentioned (only during 20th century) and supplied no links of your own.
Protecting its profit?
There's never been a war that the US hasn't loved... except for the two World Wars, that was the point, one you utterly failed to address.
You don't have to be awake to be actively taking part in a protest. Your presence, and your activities while you're awake, are sufficient. The protesters were exercising their 1st Amendment rights, on public lands.
I've done a few civil rights protests, and one of them was 10 days straight ... I certainly wasn't awake the whole time. But as long as I was on public property, and didn't impede anyone else, there was nothing the police could do.
On one occasion, the police did issue tickets. I refused to vacate and end the protest, and the ticket was later thrown out of court because it was clearly unconstitutional. I didn't even get to present the case - the judge threw it out before I got a chance to even enter a plea of not guilty.
It's a shame to see that people are now dumping on others who are speaking up for almost everyone.
The OWS movement may actually have helped provided some half-decent shelter and human contact to homeless individuals. Instead of shutting them down, the cities should have tried to use the opportunity to do a bit of outreach. Tap into a bit of the idealism there to maybe get some of the people involved in helping solve the problem.
Yes, there were drug and booze problems at OWS sites - but there are drug and booze problems everywhere, including in law enforcement and the legislature.
People want to work, they want a job, they want dignity, and they want a sense of equal justice. The politicians showed that they can't think outside the box by not seizing the opportunity. They showed who they don't serve ... and by contrast, who they do.
These are excuses fascists use to excuse their immorality and violence. You can fucking keep it for yourself.
Is that why dinosaurs are still around? The most adaptable survive. You're at the top of your food chain because you can think, use tools, plan ahead, and adapt to your environment beyond your genetic attachments, not because you're the strongest. You speak as if you've derived all of your thoughts from some uneducated Republican.
We (the rest of the world) would love it if the U.S. would withdraw to it's isolationist policies of the early 20th century. The world would probably be a much better place
In other words, just go away until we screw up to the point where most of our continent is at war again, THEN we'll call you in to help us again. Either you want the U.S. involved or not. Or do you really think the world would probably be a much better place had the U.S. not gotten involved in WW1 and WW2?
You mean people like Michael Moore and Alec Baldwin (to name just two of the 1% who took part in the OWS protests).
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
Al Jazeera, in Arabic, is available in northeast Ohio. Not sure about Farsi, and not sure whether it is cable or satellite - my guess is the latter.
Nonaggression works!
I think if a whole fucking country just dissapeared, you would have bigger issues than foreign policy and censorship.
Yes, I'm sure that if another country overthrew our democratically-elected government and installed a dictator, our subsequent revolutionaries wouldn't storm that country's embassy and take hostages. No, sir. I wager we'd probably simply kill them all.
USians, except in inner cities, have no conception of what war truly is. To many, it is the patriotic and commendable practice of sending our boys "there" so they don't have to fight the eeevil "terrorists" here. When you're on the other side, the one being mass murdered instead of the one doing the murdering, it looks very different. It's maiming, grief, loss of precious loved ones, destruction of everything including all means of earning an income, relatively fast but painful death from bullets and bombs and burning alive, slower and even more painful death from hunger and malnutrition and preventable illnesses such as cancers and birth defects caused by chemical and nuclear weapons including depleted uranium. It is the negation and the violent slaughter not only of all possible life, but of everything that could possibly make life worth living. War is not merely evil; it is the sum of all evils (Stonewall Jackson?). Those who start it, and those on the aggressor side(s) who participate in it in any way that could possibly be avoided, deserve to burn in a thousand hells, concurrently, for a thousand eternities. I am a USian myself, and beyond ashamed. I took an oath to defend my country against aggressors, back at a time when I was blissfully unaware that the US itself is the greatest aggressor nation of all time. I now honor that oath in one of only a few ways I possibly can, by trying to educate myself and others about, among other things, the incredible amount of enslaving, kidnapping, rape, and murder perpetrated by the U.S. government, on people both here and abroad. It must stop, and it will stop, and I will continue to do all I can, until they imprison or kill me, to make it stop.
Nonaggression works!
Statistically, most of the 1% are against OWS.
imperialist American who celebrates American hegemony.
Our forefathers would be proud.
> Really? If the US dissapeared tomorrow, just what do you think would happen to the world?
Canada would slide south and we'd be that much closer to real Mexican food!
OMG YES PLEASE! OMNOMNOMNOM
This move was condemned by the same government who recently tried to push the SOPA act... So they bad-mouth Iran, after they tried pulling the same thing here at home?!?! I guess the U.S. brass is irony impaired
after Iraq any country in that area that didn't kiss the US bankster and military ass would be nuts NOT to want a bomb, as its the only way to keep the warmongers in the halls of power from running you down.
This. The US has Iran surrounded with occupying forces, and executes covert operations and surveillance in Iran itself and keeps the fifth fleet not a stone's throw away. With continual threats of overt military strikes from US and Israel, and a covert war against Iran already underway, it is strategically vital for them to develop a nuclear capability to deter their aggressive, pre-emptive war-starting neighbors.
What do you base this statement on? Every member of the 1% I have heard speak has been supportive of the OWS, everyone I have heard speak against it is not a member of the 1% (that does not mean that no one in the 1% opposes OWS, just that those I have heard opposing it are not members of the 1%).
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
It's a shame to see that people are now dumping on others who are speaking up for almost everyone.
This is the mistake that most such people make, they claim to speak for people who want no part of what they are saying. The Tea Party protests did not claim to be speaking for anybody but themselves, yet the OWS, which is even less representative of the American population claims to be speaking for "almost everyone".
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
How is that insightful? The US is one of the most free societies on the planet. We aren't censored from a damn thing. Like pretty much every developed nation there's been a merger of the corporate world with politics. You might not like the policy, but we're not censored here.
I guess you missed Herman Cain (yes, Cain is a 1%er).
Basic English fail :-) There is a difference between saying a group represents another group, and saying that a group is representative of another group.
Example: I may represent a group in negotiations, without being representative of (having anything in common or being like) any member of that group.
OWS represents the American population, including those who are either intimidated or don't have time to participate. They do not have to be an exact representation of the population to do so, any more than a black lawyer has to change skin colour to represent a white crack-head.
How this comment is +5 insightful rather than marked troll, I don't know. I have seen plenty of anti-US posts that I would mod insightful, but those were honest.
"So much as make a peep of a protest"
The OWS protests went on for weeks, and you couldn't go a day without hearing about them (mainstream coverage could have been better, but alternate sources are readily available). Yes, the coordinated crackdowns were overdone but tanks and assault rifles? Citation please. And read up on Tienneman before you claim the US is the worst of the bunch (or anywhere in the same league).
slaughtering our citizens too, having the highest incarceration rate
I'm not proud of this, I want to see an end to the war on drugs, but imprisoning is not the same as slaughtering (see Syria for an example). Also, our inmates are actually quite well off compared to many citizens in the countries you think we outdo (such as NK). So far as I hear, Western Europe has better prison conditions, but you weren't comparing the US to Europe (which would be a good way to earn an insightful mod).
Just because their acts of inhumanity are public and ours are private
We don't have very good numbers on citizens killed in Syria because they've been cracking down on media. As for the US hiding inhumane actions, do you have a citation for that? I've heard that media were held back for some OWS cleanups (which is reprehensible) but the government did nothing to stop them from reporting on that, or interviewing people.
deleting domains off the internet on every server we can get our hands on that disagrees with our political agenda
Yes, we have a censorship problem, but the government isn't rampantly deleting websites - criticism to outright lies against the US government are readily available all over the place. While this is certainly an issue the US needs work on, we are NOT in the same league as countries that not only blanket ban any information supporting taboo topics, but actively put up propaganda against it and take action against those that still seek out the information. Fox news may border on propaganda, but unlike actual censoring regimes you can just as readily tune to another news station or news website for a different viewpoint. Our media could use more variety, sure, but government control isn't the issue.
My webcomic
Yes, obviously US citizens are all morons compared to your enlightened, worldly self. Pull your head out of your ass. Most Americans know that the people of Iran are not bent on destroying the West, (nor are we intent on destroying them); we've seen their protests, lamentations over fixed elections, and cries for reformation. We saw it get put down by the regime. And we won't even nibble on your strawman as to what the "US stands for".
I think you missed my point, which was two fold. First, you shouldn't ignore problems in the rest of the world just because you have your own problems. That argument is simply illogical (although highly attractive). And second, sometimes you need to act, regardless of whether you even think you should, in order to prevent things from getting worse. Example from WWII (which I brought up): if people had acted to stop Hitler before things got really bad, WWII might have been prevented. Of course, the country that did so probably would have been vilified as "messing in other peoples affairs." Why do you think people didn't stop Hitler? Because it was seen as an internal problem. By no means am I saying the US is a shining example to the world: just that people should stop, think, and reflect on history before they jump to conclusions.
"None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
I wondered where the Germans got that term from.
The London Blitz was a fucking WWII bombing campaign, how can you say it's not related in any way?
WTF, are you on drugs? Or... just a moron?
Patriotism is a laudable trait
Why? I've never quite understood that. Sure, it's a good thing you help people around you, but that's not really patriotism.
Apparently Londoners aren't appalled, so I guess I have no problem with it.
Sure does seem odd though, at first glance. Don't you think?
This isn't a simple 2-sentence-summary argument, friend.
Private property... which is required to be open to the public 24/7.
Freedom of speech... an inalienable right without deference toward property ownership.
Trespassing... on Publicly accessible property intended for public use.
Right to to peaceably assemble... but only in approved places and during approved hours.
Freedom of expression... but only within heavily interpreted (enforced) parameters.
Please, learn to think for yourself. Memorization of the words of others is mimicry... behaving as though the words make sense or are your own is ignorance.
If ANY of this were as simple and clear-cut as you suggest... we would not be having this exchange.
You make me feel a little bit sad.
where is sue? sue is idle.
Your hostility towards me only proves my point, sadly.
Life is not for the lazy.
No, sorry, it's just your country.
in the history of the U.S. wars, the only country that we still don't have diplomatic relations with is North Korea, I feel the same shall be true for Iran
Master hypocrits.
how is babby formed?
There's a difference between dissecting your reptilian ethics and your proposal for the continuation of worldwide violence that will kill us all if we can't adapt a different way of living.
I think your ideas are horrible and ignorant, but that doesn't mean I want to cause you bodily harm.
NO, OWS represents themselves. The majority of Americans do not wish to be represented by OWS and do not agree with the OWS agenda (which seems to be: "The government has aided the wealthy in stealing from the rest, therefore we need a more powerful government." A logic which I have trouble following).
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
I think for myself that is why I find groups like OWS offensive, as they claim to speak for others. I,also, find them offensive because they say they are upset about the abuse of government power and then call for government to be given more power in ways that are the same as what those who have profited from the abuse of government power have been proposing.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
Heh! Qatar actually sent assistance. Believe it or not, the US didn't respond very fast or sent as much as it could've due to bureacracy. Source: Real life Libyan.
we'll send 1400 officers armed with tanks, assault rifles, and full military battle gear... to deal with 50 peaceful protesters
Huh? 1400? It would only take maybe 3-10. If that many. 1400? You are seriously a nutcase...
You know... I swore I wouldn't do any trolling on this account, but you are too hard to pass on.
"call for government to be given more power in ways that are the same as what those who have profited from the abuse of government power have been proposing."
Citation necessary... or you're an ignorant fucktard! FTW!
~or~
WTF are you talking about?
where is sue? sue is idle.
Separately... they don't "claim" to speak for others. They undeniably DO speak for others... such as myself.
YOU are attempting to silence those beliefs, which makes you guilty of attempting to speak for others in the same manner which you condemn. Not-surprisingly; this is hypocritical.
Perhaps they don't speak for you... if such is the case, they are speaking TO you.
It is your responsibility to determine whether or not to listen.
where is sue? sue is idle.
I have seen many people from OWS calling for greater regulation of the banking industry, which is the same thing that Barney Frank, Chris Dodd and numerous other politicians who were directly involved in creating the crisis (and who profited from it) called for. Additionally, the Obama Administration has agreed with those calls. Yet, most of the Obama Administration members responsible for managing current financial regulations are former Goldman-Sachs employees.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
When have I attempted to silence others? I have merely expressed the opinion that i find the OWS protesters offensive.
Since you say that the OWS protesters speak for you, what do you think they are saying?
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
Then you're going to love it when the Chinese and Russians take our place as super powers. I will enjoy watching your rioting, pathetic masses of children being tortured and then crushed under the boot heels of actual nationalist imperialists on CNN (well, before those self same governments kick the free press out, anyway).
If you feel the need to dream up improbable scenarios to justify the actual and real atrocities committed by the US government, I pity you.
I rather suppose the point was that power is power and people will always hate it when others have it over them. Also, to suggest that the PRC becoming a superpower is somehow "improbable" smacks of racism.
Hahahahaha - this is so funny - Dear White House, if you substitute USA for Iran, and Gambling Site for Virtual Embassy; this is identical to your own actions..... Don't complain when others do unto you, as you do unto others.
"what do you think they are saying?"
You can't, possibly, be serious. This tact of questioning was moronic when it was a right-wing talking point for media pundits... "The protesters say they want, in part, more and better jobs, more equal distribution of income, bank reform, and a reduction of the influence of corporations on politics" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street
What about the common themes (of which we are all painfully aware... "what do they want?" is so disingenuous) is so difficult to digest? Even if you take issue with their methods; the message is clear.
where is sue? sue is idle.
The OWS movement may actually have helped provided some half-decent shelter and human contact to homeless individuals
They did, in some cases as a result of deliberate police actions aimed at driving homeless individuals out of their previous locations and into the OWS camps, probably with the hope of giving them an excuse to wipe out OWS.
Yeah, I know they likely would have scoffed at the idea, at least that's the Libertarian mantra. The truth is, we don't know how they would have felt considering their world consisted of imperialism, colonialism, and mercantilism. People tend to reflect the biases of the culture in which they lived. For me, the Founding Fathers' opinions on any topic are interesting, but not authoritative. I'm not a libertarian. I do believe in the Constitution being a framework rather than a singular document etched in stone. Considering that the FF didn't see fit to ensure that women were equal to men, or that Irish slaves and African slaves were equal to white men, you could make the case that their invention (The Constitution) got away from them. The fact is, the FF had beliefs which would never be tolerated in a civil society today.
"More, and better jobs..." you don't get those by protesting. You get those by going out and creating them and/or getting the qualifications to get them. "more equal distribution of income,..." you get that by reducing the size of government. "bank reform"...be more specific, the Dodd-Frank bill was "bank reform", although that seems likely to make things worse. "a reduction of the influence of corporations on politics", again, be more specific. If you mean campaign finance reform, be aware that every "campaign finance" reform so far has resulted in even more dependence on corporate donations by politicians in order to run their campaigns. It has, also, resulted in making it harder to remove incumbents from office. Several studies show that the longer a politician holds office the more likely they are to be influenced by corporate interests.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
Pointing fingers is fine.
What's wrong is using a machete to chop off other people's fingers when they point back at you.
Just because the pot's black doesn't mean its opinion on the kettle is null and void.
If we did things that way then the pot would be put to shame and everyone's so focused on the pot's hypocrisy that the kettle slinks away unscathed.
They're not my ideas. It's purely scientific observation of human behavior today, and our recorded historical past. Your anger toward me is misplaced. Acceptance of factual data in fact should pave way for long-lasting cultural philosophies and methodologies of how people and live and grow together. Such concepts may range from ideologies that are liberal or extremely conservative. But the truth should always provide a baseline to which certain behavioral traits must be either confronted or avoided all together. But the true enemy of man is ignorance. If we as a species do not accept our true nature, we are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past that often lead to the downfall of civilization.
As an individual, I'm not without fault. I see myself as an inherently evil and vile being at the core when left unchallenged. To look ones self into the mirror of pure truth is truly a terrifying experience. Knowing this, I now have a better understanding of what not to be. I choose to live transcended beyond the pull of nature. I choose to put my mind over matter. And if you're honest with yourself, you will know just how hard and difficult this endeavor is with humility.
Life is not for the lazy.
It's more likely your logic that is messed up in this respect, drawing a deduction 180% opposite of the visible evidence.
A less powerful government wouldn't have bailed out GM or Wall Street - they would have feared the voters reaction.
I'm firmly against empire and the destruction of national sovereignty. The question is: do you support worldwide state violence to keep the United States in power?
I don't care about your bullshit intellectualism. The 21st century is no place for eugenics or the dogmas surrounding original sin.
Haven't the OWS protesters called for greater regulation of banks? That is a call for a more powerful government.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
Ahh, then you're in favor of nations such as N. Korea enslaving and oppressing their own people. Gotcha. I'm so glad we got that cleared up. Because God forbid we be against the destruction of that sovereign nation. Right? If you do not stand by to free man from the clutches of another man, you are by choice, the very type of person you so much despise.
Your mind is broken. Fix it! For your own sake and that of others. Please.
Life is not for the lazy.
Greater regulation of banks, along with removing laws favouring banksters and lobbyists, is an overall reduction in government powers.
Just not passing the bank and wall street bail-outs would have met the definition of fewer laws.
Or even - just enforce the existing anti-fraud laws. No new powers required.
Please do the math.
I said earlier that, "If ANY of this were as simple and clear-cut as you suggest... we would not be having this exchange."
Well... Your most recent reply has me convinced and I stand corrected! You clearly know what works and what does not. The protests are without merit.
These global protestors are all feebs who should cower in your shadow some more. They are completely pathetic.
where is sue? sue is idle.
Flamebait ....
Has there been a single sale of a drone to a local government agency? Or a farmer? With missiles? ... Seriously? If they were so private, why are there so many posts like your's scattered over the internet but you are still free, breathing, and allowed to publish? ... Again, 'Seriously?' How did you get all your info cited above? Infowars? Prison Planet TV?
I agree there are always select cases where the accused don't have their 'fair trial', but calling that 'oblitherated the right to a trial'. Go live in a real police state, and then let us know what you really think. Maybe go for a hike in Iran, or visit Thailand and post something disrespectful of the Thai Monarchy.
'their acts of inhumanity are public and ours are private'
'Our news sources only come from a small handful of corporations'
There is so much exaggeration and embellishment in your post, you do disrespect to the scenarios you cite. I live in a Muslim country and there is less 'liberty taken' with their reporting of such events. This comment being a '5, Insightful' just shows how many other Slashdotters are angry, but don't complain when our own use 'Fox News' tactics.
...moving very slowly and winning footraces with smug satisfaction.
They are not feebs, they are "useful idiots". The whole point of the OWS protests was to provide the Democratic Party with its own equivalent of the Tea Party. It didn't work. Those who came out were unlikely to vote for Obama and the Democrats next year and they were viewed somewhat unfavorably by the general populace. This meant that the early support by Democrats for OWS was becoming a negative going into next year's election. Which was the reason that the cities cracked down on the OWS protests right now, they are hoping that OWS is ancient history by the elections.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
The real question would be, do you support China invading the United States if they think we aren't free? You're not even thinking about that, but that's alright. I had no reason to expect any real ideas from you.
There's a decent argument to be made that North Korea would be more like China if we hadn't invaded. That is another example of a decision made by people who thought they knew how to "fix" a political movement that threatened their interests by responding with extreme violence. The Korean war was fairly successful, especially compared to our similar invasions of Southeast Asia, half of Central and South America, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Haiti, and the dozen other nations we've destroyed with our ignorance.
Keep cheering on the death and destruction and pretend it's for freedom. You're doing exactly what your owners expect you to do, and they didn't even have to ask for your fealty: you freely gave it to them, no questions asked. All they had to do is say some nice sounding words, and you handed over your pocketbook and your children's future without even thinking about it. Wave the flag. Close your eyes. Remember: you're a real American.
Maybe that's where you're losing touch with what is actually happening...
"OWS protests was..."
1) They aren't protests. Ugly, random, and unwieldy as things may seem; It is a movement.
2) Past-tense is too soon; It's far from over.
3) Banana Phone is popular children's song written and performed by the artist Raffi (http://raffi.ytmnd.com/).
4) My Tin foil hat is smaller, paler, and less-often-used than your is.
5) tl;dr/tl;dw
where is sue? sue is idle.
The sad and frankly seriously fucking scary part? Follow the money, think about THIS question: What do these countries such as Iraq and Libya have in common? Not terrorism as Iraq had told most of them to go fuck themselves (As Saddam had too much on his plate with Iran to want to get involved and old MoMo had been throwing Al Qaeda in prison which just FYI but no less than THREE of the guys on the new Libyan ruling council are Al Qaeda) and its not religion as Iraq was controlled by Baathist and MoMo was more communist than anything so what is the connection between them and Iran and Syria?
The Federal Reserve and the Petrodollar, that's what. As I said the "rebels' rushed to make a central bank and quickly cut deals with the fed, Saddam had threatened to go to the Euro, and did you know that nearly two thirds of the petrodollars countries like Saudi Arabia trade for their oil ends up deposited in the federal reserve bank of NYC? And of course moMo had threatened to only accept gold for his oil as he feared the currency crisis, then suddenly he has an "Arab spring" moment, only its Al Qaeda and Qatar soldiers as the 'poor freedom fighters" backed up by billions in weapons from NATO.
I used to laugh at the whole "bankster" thing but frankly after paying attention to what has been going the last few years honestly i think that is EXACTLY what is happening, the banks are acting like the mob and anybody that threatens their operations get stomped on. on the one hand you have AIPAC throwing enough money into the ring that BOTH the dem AND rep POTUS candidate went to go kiss the ring at AIPAC before their campaigns, you have the fed making money hand over fist both on the petrodollars going out and then AGAIN on those same petrodollars when they come back, and then finally you have groups like Halliburton and Goldman Sachs tied into both AIPAC and the fed along with pretty much all major positions in the US gov making sure things run smoothly.
Frankly i don't blame iran for wanting the bomb, if I was them I'd be hustling like mad to get one just to save my own ass. it has been made VERY clear these last 20 or so years that if you fuck with the money flow, especially petro and narco dollars you ARE gonna get stomped on. there are too many of the 1% making frankly insane amounts of money off of these ops to let any third world country do anything to mess with the flow. look at which countries are left alone, what do they have in common? The bomb. its the only thing that lets you stand up to the banksters and money men anymore without getting squashed like a bug. if iran doesn't get the bomb they better kiss the ring and jump through the banksters hoops otherwise I smell 'regime change' in their future. Scary as hell that so few can kill so many just to maintain their profits.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Honestly the comments modded +5 insightful are quite scary. I'm not from the U.S. but what I'm reading here is frightening.
It seems a lot of americans here do hate their own government and do think there's no issue at all letting Iran research nuclear weapons. Do you realize being jewish (I'm not btw) is enough for these people to hate you to the point of dreaming of one thing: nuking Israel out of the map.
Yes, in Europe (where I'm from) and in the U.S. there are SNAFUs. Yes, there are a lot of corrupted official and there are people gaming the system. But at least we have the right to talk, to express ideas, etc.
And what do you use this right for? To constantly take on Iran's side. You guys are disgusting me.
If you take Iran and the U.S. and ask me who are the less worst guy, I choose the U.S. (and this comes from a european).
Interesting that you should ask that. The French helped Americans win the revolution and thus gained independence. Are you saying America should still have belonged to the British? Lets assume for a moment America has another Civil War or the entire nation is over run by "Nation-X". Yes, quite possible many Americans would welcome Chinese involvement irregardless of their motives for the greater good. I personally wouldn't trust them, but never say never.
Life is not for the lazy.
How about you don't lump us all together as imperialist, culture-bound yahoos?
Abandon the idea of democracy and stop promoting it, and we will. As long as you insist that your country's government is controlled by its people and represents them, you are all responsible for its actions. If you will treated your government and businesses as oppressors, few would blame you.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
pursuit of happiness.
Not a right.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
Then why don't Americans go through Universal Declaration of Human Rights and demand their government to implement all that are not protected in US?
Even in the way how rights are proclaimed, the set of "human rights" is specific to a country, there is no universally accepted set, and the closest thing to one (the above mentioned Declaration) is almost completely at odds with US Constitution's Bill of Rights. In practice, the only time US mentions "human rights violations" abroad, it's a code phrase for "does not bend to the will of US government and businesses".
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
This isn't about the U.S. vs Iran. This is about men in the United States who want to take what Iran's got. They do it by putting intense sanctions on Iran through the collaboration of their buddies in the UN, thus causing hardship for the Average Muhammed in Iran. The theory is, hopefully Average Muhammed gets mad enough and eventually overthrows their government, without us having to get our hands dirty, and helpfully replacing the existing seasoned policians with junior noobs who are much more easily exploited and controlled. I'm not going to say the Iranian government isn't tyranical, it sure is, but it's WE who are to blame for demonizing Iran and holding them back economically, thus hurting their citizens EACH AND EVERY DAY. You think those in power in Iran or any other country are suffering from this? Haha, no, they get what they need, and it's the people who suffer. If our cause was SOO noble and just we would gladly open up trade with Iran, and let the truth of our ways speak for itself, knowing that people would naturally gravitate away from tyranny through exposure to outside influences. Instead we isolate and oppress them, like big bullies on the world stage. This is what America has become since WWII: the big, self-entitled bullies on the world stage. I *HOPE* Iran develops nukes, because that is the only thing that will keep our lustful, power-hungry politicians and killing machines out of there.
All US-friendly, and all approved by US corporation that provides the channel.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
Given the current pigheadedness of the public convincing is quite a tall order.
US population is probably the most docile in the world. For most of the population, the only difference is, which particular subset of corporate rulers they happen to obey.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
Most Americans know
How?
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
1 - The US is "everything that's wrong with the world". Really? If the US dissapeared tomorrow, just what do you think would happen to the world? Honestly. Do you think the world would suddenly live in peace and harmony?
No. It would however have no poverty and much less war.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
Protecting its profit?
More like protecting future exclusive use of dollar as international currency. Can't do that without a continuing trade relationships with survivors of the war.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
lol
(to clarify -- I am Russian).
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
will treated
s/will //
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
We caused the Nazis by joining WWI on the side of the English. So we wouldn't have had to allow and moderate the Nazis if we had just gone the other way. I had always wondered what the world would have turned out like if WWI had the US joining with the Germans.
Learn to love Alaska
Start with they pushed the Nazis into power and created the axis powers through insane reparations after WWI which they entered on the wrong side. If they had stayed out of WWI or gone in on the German side, then we wouldn't even have Israel and all the fallout from that in the middle east. The USA caused all this by backing the wrong side in WWI or not following through with the League of Nations (more an EU world government than a neutered UN, so it would have been more involved and able to fix the broken mess at the end of WWI.
Learn to love Alaska
The coup never happened. Only source about the coup are documents from CIA. How trustworthy is CIA? How can you trust an intelligence agency where one of its missions is to lie and disinform?
Wikipedia is not a good source. Especially when it comes to controversial issues like this. Many people have many times edited that article to put out the other side of the story too, but there are people who apparently take this way too personal and revert the changes. Maybe they are one of those internet warriors on the internet. Articles that do not bring up both sides of the story are not to be trusted. Wikipedia articles are not even qualified as a real source, if you study in a university you will understand.
Do look at the other side as well: http://aryamehr.org/eng/19august/19august.htm
On a side note, Mossadegh was a retard who destroyed the nation. He forced women to wear hijab again, he wanted 18 months of dictatorial powers from the parliament, and when they did not approve it he closed the parliament. Even his close friends took distance from him. The treasury became empty, and the sales of Iran's oil did not equal the revenues of 1949.
It is really funny to see foreigners decide and talk for a nation they do not know shit about, especially using CIA as the source. Would you trust if the Iranian intelligence agency said something? Haha.
1) There was no coup. The people got tired of Mossadegh and his actions that ruined the nation. He forced women to wear hijab again, he wanted 18 months of dictatorial powers from the parliament, and when they did not approve it he closed the parliament. Even his close friends took distance from him. The treasury became empty, and the sales of Iran's oil did not equal the revenues of 1949.
2) There was no democractically elected government. The Shah was still the Shah and had the highest position in the nation. He appointed Mossadegh, according to the Iranian Consitution from that time (not the current one).
You are correct that the Islamic Republic would not exist without the US. The USA, along with the mainly the British, decided to overthrow the Shah and install an islamic government in the nation for a couple of reasons. Look up the Green Belt Plan, where the plan was to "build" a belt of islamic nations to surrond communism, because Islam is communism biggest enemy.
Yeah... about 1953.
1) There was no coup. The people got tired of Mossadegh and his actions that ruined the nation. He forced women to wear hijab again, he wanted 18 months of dictatorial powers from the parliament, and when they did not approve it he closed the parliament. Even his close friends took distance from him. The treasury became empty, and the sales of Iran's oil did not equal the revenues of 1949.
2) There was no democractically elected government. The Shah was still the Shah and had the highest position in the nation. He appointed Mossadegh, according to the Iranian Consitution from that time (not the current one).
You installed the Shah? What a stupid answer. Is this why the Shah many times attacked Britain and USA? Is this why the USA and Britain many times became angry with the Shah? For example when the Shah was the only force in OPEC who wanted and DID 3 DOUBLE the OIL prices, which caused energy crises in USA and Britain. When would a puppet do that to his master? Are you stupid? Read a couple of books that are written by other people beside your CIA-sponsored books or stupid Wikipedia.
The Shah repressed? Iran was during it's golden ages during the Shah. Iran had a high living standard, economy was building etc. Iran had one of the worlds strongest economy. Iran had one of the worlds strongest military. Iran had one of the worlds best automobile industry. Iran had amazing petrochemical industries and it was going to become even better.
People did not revolt. Western nations, like USA and Britain, decided to stage a coup. See for example "Jimmy Carter, The Liberal Left and World Chaos by Mike Evans" where he writes that CIA paid Khomeini milions of dollars, or see how Khomenini entered iran with a FRENCH plane. I thought Shah was a puppet? Then why would the french bring Khomeini to Iran? See The Life and Times of the Shah by Gholam Reza Afkhami, where he has published a letter from the British and American, where you can read how they threaten the Shah about him raising the oil prices and making Iran stronger.
Conclusion: Stop reading one side of the story (which is fake. As you know, the only source of Operation Ajax is from CIA. Do you trust CIA? How can you trust CIA? CIA is an intelligence agency where one of its goal is to lie and disinform.) Stop beliving everything your "great nation USA" tells you.
I'm not saying its great, but Myanmar its not.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
[Possibly justified anti-USA rant ...]
Yes but... how do you REALLY feel?
I feel that we really can use more of the cheap oil.
And, the US is looking quite a bit schizo/psycho lately. State Dept. decries net censorship, at the same time House and Senate are trying to pass the same thing (PIPA/SOPA).
Meanwhile, Israel is pretty much openly attacking Iran, *nobody* likes it that *anybody* has nukes (and especially not Israel, Pakistan, India, and Iran).
And all the US wants is cheap oil for SUVs and Hummers (and unrefined bitumen shipped from the other side of its own continent for same).
Meanwhile, your elected reps are in the pocket of the Hollywood MafiAA, and you still haven't put the "Banksters" in jail. In fact, they're migrating into govt or MafiAA golden parachutes.
It's a little disconcerting, looking on at all this !@#$ you let happen these days. At this point, aren't you supposed to be tossing tea into Boston harbour or something?
Oh, was that advocating revolution or something?
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
hello ms hillary clinton.
can you help me?
please i need your help,you said that you can help us to provide us visa and resident from your country usa
im waiting for that.please help me,i need your help,my name is maziyar kazemzadeh-im from iran_shiraz
my email address is maziyar.kazemzadeh@yahoo.com
im still waiting for your forward answer.
please get me out of this country as soon as possible.thank you so much