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Iran Shuts Down US Virtual Embassy
bonch writes "Less than 12 hours after the U.S. launched a virtual embassy for Iran, the Iranian government blocked access to the website, directing visitors to a government page proclaiming the site illegal. The White House condemned the move, calling Iran's internet policies 'an electronic curtain of surveillance and censorship around its people.'"
Yes but... how do you REALLY feel?
Hehehe, typo filled ranting aside, I agree completely. It seems beyond the average US citizen's mental grasp that there are people who would like to live peacefully whilst still being diametrically opposed to everything that the US stands for.
Something wrong with open access to the Internet, bunky?
Rather ironic considering that the U.S. government is doing everything in its power to censor its _own_ people on the Internet.
Oh give it a rest you anonymous coward. I'm not American and I don't live in the USA, but if you hate the place so much go live in a *real* police state. Then you'll know what censorship really is. I guarantee you if Iran were to host an "eEmbassy" not only would the US government not block it, they'd have no means to do so other than the courts, and the courts would tell the government to piss off.
The White House condemned the move, calling Iran's internet policies 'an electronic curtain of surveillance and censorship around its people.
Really? REALLY? F*UCK YOU U.S. You are EVERYTHING that is wrong with the world. Go f*cking away and stop crying about people why just want to live their lifes peacefully. You worthless pieces of shit who attack other countries and everyone who doesn't like your limited religious views. You are the scumbag of earth. Go eat your shit. You want to know why we dont like you? BECAUSE YOU TRY TO TELL US WHAT TO DO TO, YOU STUPID SCUMBAGS.
Well, where to begin here?
1 - The US is "everything that's wrong with the world". Really? If the US dissapeared tomorrow, just what do you think would happen to the world? Honestly. Do you think the world would suddenly live in peace and harmony? Hint: The US has only been around under 300 years. Have a look at world history before that time. Let me know how great things were.
2 - "Go f*cking away and stop crying about people why just want to live their lifes peacefully." Right, the Islamic Republic of Iran just wants to live their lives peacefully. And they do nothing bad.... like, sponsor Hezbollah or ship weapons or participate in kidnappings. Nope, if the US went away, everything would be right as rain in Iran. Right?
3 - "You want to know why we dont like you?" Who is "we"? The entire rest of the planet? Your country? Your neighborhood? Some guy ranting on Slashdot?
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
for political reasons.
Unless it wanted to, of course.
but if you hate the place so much go live in a *real* police state.
"If it could be worse, then the current situation is objectively good..."
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
"If it could be worse, then the current situation is objectively good..."
Not what he said. What he said was it could be actually *bad*, but that it wasn't, at least not for the moment.
I would add that it could also be *better*.
"None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
> Really? If the US dissapeared tomorrow, just what do you think would happen to the world?
Canada would slide south and we'd be that much closer to real Mexican food!
SOPA -> http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-11-17/news/30412322_1_ip-act-rogue-websites-sopa
Laundry list of past attempts -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_the_United_States
(CDA, COPA, DMCA, COPPA, CIPA, COICA, and my favorite named DOPA.)
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
Is the issue
Only any idiot would confuse that with censoring anything. EVERY govt will censor something. It is censoring political expression that is the problem
Everybody understands that right?
Right?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
We've gone from confronting an Iron Curtain to an Electronic Curtain!
What does any of that have to do with the Iranian government censoring a website? You actually believe that such an act of information control is in the best interests of the citizens of Iran?
No wonder you posted anonymously.
In a US prison rots Javed Iqbal. Who is Javed Iqbal? He is a satellite dish installer who let people see Al-Manar television. Al-Manar is associated with Hezbollah (which as Shia, are associated with Iran, and the US government constantly links Hezbollah and Iran in statements). So how is the US throwing people getting news from Iranian, and Iranian-allied sources good, yet Iran doing the same thing is "an electronic curtain of surveillance and censorship"?
2 - "Go f*cking away and stop crying about people why just want to live their lifes peacefully." Right, the Islamic Republic of Iran just wants to live their lives peacefully. And they do nothing bad.... like, sponsor Hezbollah or ship weapons or participate in kidnappings.
Strange. Just replace "Islamic Republic of Iran" with "USA" and the sarcastic statement would still be applicable
So, uh...what does any of that insane ranting have to do with the Iranian government censoring websites?
It is hard for the US to call out other countries on their censorship when the US government itself is pushing for censorship. Here is what the conversation looks like:
US: Hey, Iran! Stop blocking foreign websites!
Iran: We are just blocking websites that break our laws. You did the same thing when it came to copyright infringement!
US: Well that was different. Copyright infringement is theft!
Iran: Yeah well those foreign websites amounted to an attempt to coerce our citizens to rebel against the government! That is even worse!
US: Well uhh you see...you are doing it for political reasons, so that is bad!
Iran: Well what is up with your copyright lobbyists and the influence they wield over your congress and executive branch?
US: herp derp.
Palm trees and 8
So that's the newest "Blame Obama" thing? The president had nothing to do with it. Both versions (SOPA and PROTECTIP) were introduced by Republicans. Though both have co-sponsors from both parties. Pelosi and Biden have both said that the bills are a bad idea.
I guess everything that goes through Congress that conservatives don't like must have been pushed by Obama. Even though it's a Republican bill to begin with.
Iran Blocks American Virtual Embassy Forthwith!
White House Cries Foul! Why Are Iran Such Meanies? !!1
Readers Vote, We Report:
[1] Iran Are Meanies
[2] This Response Was Obvious, And Iran Are Still Meanies
Those Iranians need to have their mouths washed out with SOPA.
USA isn't as bad as X, therefore USA is good?
I hit my wife with an open hand...it's okay, 'though, because this guy I know hits his wife with a baton and at least I'm better than that.
I am an American and I live in the USA. Don't forget that "the courts" are also part of the government. The federal government often and egregiously oversteps the specific privileges granted to it by the constitution; the courts, supreme and otherwise, often allow this to happen. Our government, the judicial part of it included, have made great strides in the restriction of personal freedom, including the field of censorship.
Don't get me wrong, the USA is pretty cool, and our government is definitely an open-handed beater, but just because Iran's government sucks more, that doesn't mean that our government doesn't suck quite a bit on its own.
it is not the place of the US to incite rebellion in Iran
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
I didn't see him say that. Either way, "bad" is subjective.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
It is the place of the US to stand up for unalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
...one might say, "Well, that was quick?".
But I think in this case, it's more appropriate to say, "What took them so long?"
The young generation of Iran certainly doesn't have much of a beef with the US, and by all accounts, would just assume we got along with each other, each in our own respective neighborhoods.
But the older folks, both there and here, still remember that we hate each other, for good reasons, bad reasons and LOTS of lies.
[End Of Line]
You mean, by injected "unapproved" information?
Straighten up your own act before whining about the rest of the world.
People still complain about the last time the US tried that. World War II, I think it was. Didn't last very long (although, who knows what would have happened if the Japanese had left well enough alone.)
"None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
Tell that to Bradly Manning or maybe even Jullian Assange
"an electronic curtain of surveillance and censorship around its people." ... Kind of like what the government is doing here in the States? The Patriot Act just kicked it into overdrive. Bill of Rights? Think you have those natural rights? Your government has taken them away and will do terrible things to you if you exercise those rights.
How's that been working for you lately? Before answering, you should probably consult your Homeland Security Potential Terrorist Interaction Manual for the proper response, Citizen. Remember, the threats are amongst us.
...Steve
No, the poster is reacting to the idiocy of the post. In a world with Putin grabbing power in Russia, North Korea investing in nukes while its people starve, Iran's theocracy feverishly working on bombs, Syria slaughtering its citizens, etc, calling the US "everything that's wrong with the world" is so moronic that it evokes outrage.
I posted anonymously because, well mainly I don't care, but also unlike you I'm not looking for an ego boost.
The real question here is why the US thinks it can interfere in the running of any country it decides to.
If the Iranian government tried to set up a web site for US citizens to read propaganda from, how long do you think it would stay up?
This isn't about culture it's about hypocrisy.
Better: beam in free, uncensored internet so the Iranian ppl can bypass govt censorship. Then do the same thing in the US!
Seriously? On a scale of 1 to "bomb the shit out of Iran", I'd rank a verbal scolding from the White House a solid 1.
Yeah, given that the situation in the USA is that I have free speech, freedom of movement, freedom to vote for whoever I want, freedom to cruise the Internet, freedom to read foreign press, freedom to observe my government at work, yes, the situation is objectively good. Or to put it another way, point me to a spot on this planet where the situation is significantly better.
Eternal vigilance. When we do something wrong, call us on it. When we do something right, like the virtual embassy thing, give credit.
I think you'd find that there are a lot of U.S. citizens that are pretty disgusted with the way our country is behaving right now, both domestically and globally, if you actually asked any of us about it. Do you think that we're all over here cheering this crap on or something? There's people protesting in almost every major city in this country right now.
It amazing that a country who we keep threatening with sanctions would block a US Virtual Embassy website. Of course, censorship is a terrible thing. I guess if we borrowed money from them like we do from China, we could over look Internet censorship.
So please explain Iraq. Oh yes and the 1953 coup in Iran that got rid of a democractically elected government. And half a dozen countries in South America. And......
Care to make an explaiantion?
Deeply religious country censors internet!
This was by far the dumbest idea I've seen coming out of the state department so far. Virtual embassy sounds very nice, but end of the day it is just another website with pages upon pages of useless information (aside from visa forms lets say) which no one I reckon except a few read. I think the American's are just trying put a lot of hype into their website by calling it a virtual embassy. So what's next, a virtual embassy in Second Life? Come on people, get real. If the US government is serious about diplomacy they should stop beating around the bush and playing kiddy games and really engage the other side. I think the Iranian government did a good service to its people for blocking this virtual embassy -at least their action saves some bandwidth!
You had me until the watching my (our) government at work. Everything that really matters we don't see until it is too late. We get a damn dog and pony show while meeting are held behind closed doors with lobbyists deciding what is in "our best interests". Most of our reps don't even read most of the material they vote for. How the hell can you vote for something that changes the laws of the land if you haven't even read it?
fascism is the catcha. That's too funny considering the thread. Are they picked randomly?
Very well actually. We do not live in a dystopian state.
Despite what some people would have you believe.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
It is the place of the US to stand up for unalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
If a website is a real threat to your regime then maybe, just maybe, there is something not right with the regime? But really this action is in the long run worse for the regime than anything the US would post on the site. People crave what they are told cannot have. It's a gift to the revolutionaries.
Yeah, given that the situation in the USA is that I have free speech, freedom of movement, freedom to vote for whoever I want, freedom to cruise the Internet, freedom to read foreign press, freedom to observe my government at work, yes
I don't care for the whole pedophile and terrorist hysteria. The TSA, the Patriot act, the (in my opinion) ridiculous copyright laws, etc. I'd say many of our freedoms are under constant assault.
As for free speech, just look to free speech zones (and, although generally not regarded as a bad thing, certain speech such as slander is punishable).
objectively good
That was supposed to be sarcastic. I don't see how something could possibly be "objectively" good.
Or to put it another way, point me to a spot on this planet where the situation is significantly better.
Well, since "better" is subjective, I could point you to practically any country on the planet.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
Like it wasn't obvious even to some silly AC.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Exactly. Because in the United States, if a jerk like you or me posts a critical comment on a site like Slashdot, the government will block the site entirely, and might even arrest and imprison us and our families! Truly we are, like, totally oppressed.
The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
Press TV IS a web site set up for US citizens to read propaganda and it IS still up. You are an idiot.
And I guess every time someone points the finger at Obama they must be a conservative?
If you want other people to open up to doing a bit of research and be rational about their point of view it only makes sense to clean up your own backyard first.
that there are people who would like to live peacefully whilst still being diametrically opposed to everything that the US stands for.
Im not entirely sure you are familiar with what embassies are FOR.
Hint, having a chinese embassy in the US doesnt mean we love everything about China.
"not only would the US government not block it"
You must be new here. Just peruse our last few weeks' headlines. The US *can* and *will* censor absolutely anything they like without regard for what anyone else thinks.
Basically, forever.
Or do you really think we block al-Jazeera? Or any other Iranian site? Just checked, by the by, and the Iranian government's Ministry of Foreign Affairs website is available online from where I'm sitting (though I don't read Persian, much less speak it, so I have to depend on Google Translate).
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
The funny thing about all of this is that Iran is just a place name to most people in the U.S. and about as real as Neverland or Hy-Brasil. They have a concept of Iran, but that's about it. If you're Iranian, you don't exist, in their heads, and so what happens to you *doesn't matter*.
"My God...it's full of trolls!"
Many seem upset that the table shave been turned, and this has become an opportunity to bash America for its limited censorship.
Censorship in a dictatorship or autocracy is expected, and required to ensure the "great leader" continues to be perceived as "great".
However, in a democracy it's the other way round.
Censorship means that the gubment believes the citizens (AKA voters) cannot think and decide for themselves.
Let's accept that for a moment.
Now consider who elected the gubment. The voters, who can't think and decide properly.
Therefore the gubment was elected by people incapable of making good and rational decisions.
Censorship in a democracy invalidates the government.
ANY censorship!
> 50% of the time, yes
Yeah except you're incapable of wrapping your head around the idea that we DON'T think that was a good idea! It's like arguing with a religious zealot.
It's OK Bender, there's no such thing as 2.
No, just like the guy who can't grasp that the idea was bad, you've STILL got this idea that they have a right to an opinion on Iran because they live in the US.
And somebody, I *think* it was one of those naughty middle east countries, I can't quite remember which, has to pay for those twin towers! Right?
Over, and over, and over, and over again...
And now it's to the point where they think they can blatantly push their propaganda and nobody will call them on it. They just stand and crank the war-machine in plain view and we are supposed to go "hmm yeah, democracy and shit, we're awesome"?
It's OK Bender, there's no such thing as 2.
The Islamic Republic of Iran wouldn't exist without the US. Remember, we destroyed their democracy in 1953 because they were trying to nationalize their oil fields, and kick us out. British Petroleum began its life as Anglo-Iranian Oil, which was known as Anglo-Persian Oil before that. The company was literally founded on the outright theft of all of Iran's oil, along with a handful of American companies that got their cut after Operation Ajax was complete. We installed the Shah, he repressed and radicalized the population with our money and training, and then the people revolted, as they often do.
We helped Britain divide and administer their post-war winnings after WWII that largely has started all of this mess. (Do you think oil-rich Iraq was divided equally into Kurdish, Shiite, and Sunni populations by accident?) We backed Saddam to punish the newly independent Iran after they overthrew our Shah. We participated in the proxy wars which destroyed Afghanistan, Iraq, and Iran in the 80s. We allowed Pakistan to develop nuclear weapons -- as in, we certified them as nuclear free every year -- during the 80s in exchange for helping us smuggle weapons into Afghanistan. We backed Mubarak. We were pals with Gaddafi while he was torturing and murdering people because he was selling oil to us, but that was all the way back in 2009. We allow Turkey to murder and suppress Kurds at their whim because they are an ally. We didn't say much about Syria at first because it was one of our blacksites. We're still watching Bahrainis get murdered because we like the sitting government that allows our fleet that we use to project power into that Middle East to have a massive billion dollar operations base.
The US isn't the root of all evil, but in the modern Middle East, it's the root of most of it.
You're proving your own point.
You've gotta be kidding! Al Jazeera is US approved middle eastern news. That's why it's the only middle-eastern channel available, even here in Australia.
Do you think between those bunch of countries all together they could only come up with one TV station?
LMFAO.
It's OK Bender, there's no such thing as 2.
Maybe the US should just say, "appeal to hypocrisy."
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
Functionally, companies in the United States block Al-Jazeera. I challenge you to actually watch their CNN-like feed on your local cable station. The best I can do is their half-hour daily news program broadcast alongside BBC America and (that wretched) RT News on KCET in Los Angeles; today I consider Al-Jazeera's reporting premeir among broadcast television.
We at slashdot all know it's easy to intercept and redirect DNS (unless you're in Sweden, those fine adopters of DNSSEC), or insert in a transparent Squid/whatev with a hosts file, but I'm confident at least they're probably not using Websense, years ago I installed the mod_geoip ruleset to deny access to daily updates for requests originating from embargoed nations.
Last time I was in Syria Facebook was blocked at the port 80 level. But ssh forwarding 3128 worked fine, hopefully no one was etherealing 53. Funny it took Syria three years to finally ban iPhones, I lost a brand-new 3G getting out of a taxi in Damascus... the one time I didn't photograph the license plate of the car I was getting into.
Seeing "Persian" instead of "Farsi" struck me as odd, but I suppose I'm the odd one.
calling the US "everything that's wrong with the world" is so moronic that it evokes outrage.
During WWII, we invested an awful lot of money to develop our own nukes; Money that no doubt could have been used to put food on people's tables. We still work "feverishly" on bombs, except now we've gone from trying to create the biggest bombs to the most precise ones, and we're arming our police departments with drones capable of launching missiles that can fire through your window while you're eating dinner, kill you, and leave everyone else at the table undisturbed. As a bonus, we've oblitherated the right to a trial, to face your accuser, and to have the facts presented against you, as well as to have it all made public. Our police and military can now do pretty much whatever they want, and if you so much as make a peep of protest, we'll send 1400 officers armed with tanks, assault rifles, and full military battle gear... to deal with 50 peaceful protesters, on public property, demonstrating because they are homeless. We're slaughtering our citizens too, having the highest incarceration rate of any country in the world. Just because their acts of inhumanity are public and ours are private doesn't mean they're any less cruel. We rail on and on about China's Firewall and their tightly controlled media, while we're busy deleting domains off the internet on every server we can get our hands on that disagrees with our political agenda and paying homage to news sources like Fox News. Our news sources only come from a small handful of corporations, and everything seen on our television carefully created to give the appearance of controversy and openness, when in fact there is very little of either given the amounts of money involved.
No sir, it doesn't evoke outrage... the amount of crap our country gets away with is inspirational to the countries you mention; They hope to wield as much wealth and influence as we do, they're just less transparent about it.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
Stop with the anti-American propaganda you liar.
Javed Iqbal was arrested in New York in November 2001, on charges of conspiracy to defraud the United States and fraud in relation to identification documents. He was plead guilty to fraud, went to jail, then later released and deported to Pakistan.
The Obama Administration would never overstep the law and censor the Internet!
No sig for you!!
Tell that to ICE.
Just the one with the most prisoners. And legal bribery of your politicians. And more military than basically the world combined. Yeah, just your average modern utopia.
Yeah, because having them place GPS in your car for "critical comments" on Reddit and then have the ICE jump at you with weapons drawn for traffic violations means nothing to you.
You spineless piece of Stazi, Vichy shit.
calling the US "everything that's wrong with the world" is so moronic that it evokes outrage.
The main difference between all of those countries doing wrong and the United States is that we do evil in other countries, and they do it within their own borders. That's doesn't make us better, it's just a reflection of our status as the world's only superpower and the relative health of our electoral system. We watched Syria and Egypt and Tunisia and Turkey murder for decades without saying much about it, because we found them useful. And back when we controlled Iran with a dictatorship, we shut down the free press just as we did after we invaded Iraq.
Hypocrisy is indeed what is wrong with the world. Grow the fuck up already.
With that number of UID digits? He'd have had to pay big bucks for that number if he was only 14!
Gitmo. Corporate p0wnership of your election process. Countrywide/BofA and the bank and wall street bailouts. Not one bailout bankster in jail. The clamp-down on the OWS movement, which is a fundamental free-speech issue.
There's 5 to get you started. The shutdown of the "virtual embassy" is small potatoes in comparison. It was also a really, REALLY dumb idea to begin with. After all, it would be easy enough for the Iranian authorities to track who accesses it, make a list, check it twice, find out who's been naughty ... same as the US has been doing for a couple of decades with Echelon..
If only US unmanned drones were that accurate...
...bazinga!
Um....the CIA and British operatives worked together to make the coup happen. The British government was extremely unhappy that Iran had nationalized their oil production (nullifying the contracts they had). The Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat) is a decent jumping off point on this one. A lot of what we see in the region is a legacy of British Imperialism and attempts by the CIA to control the political landscape. It's not very dissimilar to the CIA training and funding of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia to change the politics of that region (French Indochina) as well. We saw how that turned out...
This is not to say that we can excuse all actions by a people, but we would do well, I think, to consider the legacy of Old World Imperialists and the Super Powers when viewing the geopolitical landscape. Further, it is perhaps as unwise to consider a people synonymously with the actions of their government as it is to consider our own way of doing things--whichever way that is--as being necessarily superior to any others. Patriotism is a laudable trait. Nationalism is a fetish that the world could do without.
Yes, the USA is pure evil. We have committed atrocities by saving the world from domination of the Axis powers, have been the first to come to aid and gave more aid than anyone else to those affected by natural and man-made disasters, have clothed and fed the needy, and have given countless billions in aid to nations all over, at great cost to ourselves. We have freed people from oppressive regimes, and have made the world a safer place.
And yes, we have made mistakes. Nobody is perfect - but we are a hell of a lot better than you. :)
People care a lot more about $AWFUL_REALITY_SHOW than they do about foreign propaganda here, there is no need to block it.
I'd imagine the Iranian govn't wished they had a population that was sedate enough that they didn't have to block propaganda.
Just crank out another season of "Dirty Ice-trucker New Jersey Born Italian-American Hookers in Alaska", and everything will stay the same.
Sent from my PDP-11
If the Iranian government tried to set up a web site for US citizens to read propaganda from, how long do you think it would stay up?
Until the website is shut down due to lack of interest or funding?
Are you really suggesting that the US government would censor the internet if Iran put up anti-US propaganda and/or ban its citizens from viewing it? Really?
It's a mystery how this post was modded up.
Well, where to begin here?
1 - The US is "everything that's wrong with the world". Really? If the US dissapeared tomorrow, just what do you think would happen to the world? Honestly. Do you think the world would suddenly live in peace and harmony? Hint: The US has only been around under 300 years. Have a look at world history before that time. Let me know how great things were.
2 - "Go f*cking away and stop crying about people why just want to live their lifes peacefully." Right, the Islamic Republic of Iran just wants to live their lives peacefully. And they do nothing bad.... like, sponsor Hezbollah or ship weapons or participate in kidnappings. Nope, if the US went away, everything would be right as rain in Iran. Right?
3 - "You want to know why we dont like you?" Who is "we"? The entire rest of the planet? Your country? Your neighborhood? Some guy ranting on Slashdot?
I really hope that this was not a serious answer, but a poor attempt at trolling.
If that was not the case, I sincerely hope that you are 12 years old.
The White House condemned the move, calling Iran's internet policies 'an electronic curtain of surveillance and censorship around its people.
You are the scumbag of earth. Go eat your shit. You want to know why we dont like you? BECAUSE YOU TRY TO TELL US WHAT TO DO TO, YOU STUPID SCUMBAGS.
Then you're going to love it when the Chinese and Russians take our place as super powers. I will enjoy watching your rioting, pathetic masses of children being tortured and then crushed under the boot heels of actual nationalist imperialists on CNN (well, before those self same governments kick the free press out, anyway).
You keep begging for your countries to become clones of North Korea. I see no reason for the US taxpayer to continue to foot the bill to protect you from your own hypocrisy.
I will never understand the need of American citizens to show blind loyalty to a political party. Do research before you vote, and pick the one you think will have the least negative impact. This way you don't end up with leaders like George Bush, and gets the individuals educated enough to determine which party is better instead of which has the most fans.
Do more.
It's on America's tortured brow, That Mickey Mouse has grown up a cow
Wrong. PROTECTIP was introduced by a Democrat. Not that any of your rant has to do with the Obama administration's past actions.
If Iran shuts down a site, it is evil. If the US shut down a site, it is good. Welcome to animal farm!
"It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
They don't have to block the entire site. There are plenty of moderators around to mod you into oblivion. No government action required.
The "Electronic Embassy" was "gamed" to begin with.
If you want goodwill on the path to normalizing, you don't do it by sidelining diplomatic channels and messaging unilaterally. That's hostility - not diplomacy.
If the US State Dept wanted full relations with Iran, they could open up shop tomorrow. But everyone there knows that Israel would cut off their lobby-enslaved testicles. The barriers to entry are US and Israeli.
The "Electronic Embassy" was created TO BE BLOCKED
Now, the "evil Iranian government" can be used to generate a thousand obfuscating talking points - and to frame Iran for "blocking dialogue" - when in fact, it is the US which has PERPETUALLY refused relations and negotiation.
This is a ruse. Iran is not some Western Asian version of North Korea, propagandized with some false lampoon of the US that dominates popular imagination.
As I indicated in the earlier story, there is little or nothing that Iranians need to know about the US, that they don't already know, either by watching satellite TV (which every Iranian has) or by calling their cousin in LA, which half of all Iranians have.
Iranians tend to be the most Amerophilic people you will encounter - but the US has been able to do extensive damage to that impression in the past few years. They seem to be on the path of eliminating all good graces.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
All your Mosque, are belong to us...
For in politics, as in religion, it is equally absurd to aim at making proselytes by fire and sword. - Publius
Did you get turned down for a green card again?
You are welcome on my lawn.
PROTECT IP Act was introduced by Patrick Leahy (D-VT)
Let me get this straight. You think that putting up a link to a free copy of a movie that somebody put a lot of effort into making and would like to be re-reimbursed for, equates to censorship of an entire nation?
I weep for our future.
Some days I get the sinking feeling Orwell was an optimist.
I both agree and disagree with this. I do know a few U.S. citizens, and each of them are rather intelligent and understand what is happening with their country. But yes, the U.S. is an international bully as far as politics go. This has happened before with legalizing marijuana in Canada. The U.S. had no business sticking their hands in, yet they did anyways by effectively threatening to restrict trade with Canada if we did so. There is also the U.S. tradition of having a "war" around every 20 years. Please, stop dragging us into those "wars". I say "war" with quotes because it is not truly a war unless you conscript citizens, and turn your entire economy over to a war-time economy. A war is something with your entire country on the line, not a fight against terrorists from another country that your own government gave weapons in the first place.
So that's the newest "Blame Obama" thing? The president had nothing to do with it. Both versions (SOPA and PROTECTIP) were introduced by Republicans. Though both have co-sponsors from both parties.
Really because according to the wiki PROTECTIP was introduced by Patrick Leahy a Democrat. Defiantly not saying Bush was an awesome president but he was regularly blamed for stuff much further from his control than this. If Obama was really against this bill it's only one veto away.
Yeah, there's a lot of things going haywire in this country right now, but you know what? I feel pretty confident in saying that I feel safer and more free here than there in Persia. I've never been to the region, granted, but I'm a proud European born imperialist American who celebrates American hegemony. America is not everything that is wrong in this world as the first poster claims, pretty far from it. America has certainly failed a lot of tests, but then my Britain and my Germany have as well, so it's hard for me knock the US for being self interested and imperfect. I would hope that Americans would know about the dark past of Chiquita back when it was called United Fruit and called El Pulpo by the locals it fed on, but most likely don't just as they don't know about the horrible things American companies like Abercrombie & Fitch have done in Saipan. That said, the world is big, but not so big we can't easily find human rights violations committed in other countries by governments, private industries, and state run businesses.
But since we're going to claim in this thread that the US is inciting rebellion in Iran with this site, let's look at some of the horrible imperialistic things that the US has done using this virtual embassy. From a quick glance, there's:
1. A section explaining visas; how they work, what type there are, how to read one.
2. A section for document reqs for birth registration and a PPT application
3. A bookmark of links to various US cabinet and mission websites.
4. Instructions for renewal of passports
5. Information on how to study abroad in the US.
That's all pretty scary stuff, isn't it? There are a couple of things that challenge Iran's fundament human right to control what its residents see and read like annual reports on human rights, trafficking, country reports on terrorism, and an International Religious Freedom Report on Iran. There's also an Open Societies page that seems to paint the US as some kind of defender of women's rights, religious freedom, etc.
Yeah, America has its bad days. So does every other nation in the world that has aspired to be more than San Marino. I know, I know, I'm being unfair in ignoring that one time when San Marino violated its neutrality during WWI as a result of 10 partisans joining the Italian Army. The Virtual Embassy is a good endeavor.
Your rant might be a bit more meaningful if you weren't an AC. Every country does shit that looks bad depending on how you look at it. The EU loves to sit back and let the USA do all the dirty work and then bitch about it.
I won't say the U.S. is perfect, far from it. I wish we would pull all our troops and influence and aid out of the rest of the world and let them fend for themselves. But as soon as we did we would have dozens of Countries asking or begging for our support. So get the fuck off your high horse and quit insulting others from the safety of your anonymous hole.
If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
Oh I do hope that pun is intentional.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
Well then, they're not doing a very good job of it.
Maybe the US is just mad because China and Iran and India and others are so much better at censoring the internet.
I guess you could say that when it comes to censoring the internet, I'm glad the US government is so incompetent.
You are welcome on my lawn.
someone put this retard out of his misery
PROTECTIP was introduced by a Democrat
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
Agree Iran is wrong. But cant point a finger on others when Our own Policy for internet is screwed and with all new strange laws getting passed for free world. No more comments.
[citation needed.]
From http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/24/AR2006082401461.html, is this:
You wouldn't be a(nother) pro-American propagandist liar, would you? Yes, it looks like you are. Couldn't even get the year right on your dissemination, could you?
Before judging blindly, have the decency to look at the website : http://iran.usembassy.gov/
There seems to be some strange reflex that everything the US does, must be for some evil agenda.
I'm European , so i recognize the tone. However, our own leaders are just as bad ( if not worse ).
Slipping shoelaces ?
It shouldn't. I favor US isolationism. The world doesn't deserve any attempt by the US to "help".
For example:
We defeated Japan, which begat the worse Communist China. Had we left well alone, no Mao and no problem.
We helped defeat the Nazis, which rescued the Soviets, and begat the Cold War which begat Jihadists etc.
The world would be better off if the Japs and Nazis had won then moderated over time.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
I think the complaint is that the US was involved in countless (well, about 175 by copy/pasting Wikipedia article starting here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations#1900.E2.80.931909, into text editor, counting lines, dividing by 2 due to double-spacing) military conflicts during the 20th century, but somehow managed to sit out of about half of each of the World Wars, as though they were either too insignificant, or perhaps not lopsided enough, or maybe sympathies with the other side were too strong (hi Prescott Bush).
Yeah, I think it's the hypocrisy that's the issue.
The easiest way to get people to accept a negative change to their standard of living is to compare it to somewhere that's worse off. There's always somewhere worse off than you, but that doesn't mean you can't be outraged when your rights are slowly degraded away.
If we use your logic, ("at least the U.S. is better than <insert dictatorship>") then the U.S. can easily slide down until it is just slightly better than the worst dictatorship on the planet, and people like you will go willingly.
Sorry, this required a second reply.
Following quote from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Blitz.
US stayed out when Britain suffered this:
76 consecutive nights of bombing.
Now, compare to 9/11, and America's reaction and expectation that the entire world would jump immediately to their side, and ... well sometimes the gag reflex is hard to suppress.
Further case in point, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Blitz_(American_football).
Yes, it appears that an American football team, based in London, named themselves after the 76 nights of consecutive bombing.
How'd America like a European-style football (soccer) team based in NY naming itself the New York Nine Elevens? Boggles the mind.
I'd say not. For one thing, I don't believe in objective opinions. Second of all, the other countries would (probably in most people's eyes) only be better than the other ones, but still not good.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
is Iran trying to get a /kickban?
irc.internets.earth is such a troubled place.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
Bush considered himself the "Unitary Executive", in effect king of the USA. Since he assumed that role of his own free will, he most certainly is responsible for absolutely everything that happened under his watch. Obama has not done anything close to that and in fact has behaved the way a president is supposed to behave in the modern American system of government. The irony of course being that Obama could be trusted with such power whereas Bush should not have been trusted with even the power given someone driving a pickup truck.
I believe the site was a virtual embassy... the US broke off diplomatic relations with Iran since the overthrow of the Shah (and the subsequent hostage taking drama) and vice-versa.
If there are no diplomatic relations, the country cannot set up an embassy, it would have been interesting to see what services were offered with the virtual embassy though.
The Iranians deal via the Pakistani embassy as they are persona non grata in the US and the US deal through the Swiss (and, it turns out, through the former British embassy). Does the US want to re-engage in diplomatic relations with Iran? It would be great if they did.
The Vienna convention regarding embassies states:
The establishment of diplomatic relations between States, and of permanent diplomatic missions, takes place by mutual consent.
The sending State must make certain that the agrément of the receiving State has been given for the person it proposes to accredit as head of the mission to that State.
The receiving State is not obliged to give reasons to the sending State for a refusal of agrément.
An embassy is a diplomatic mission. I don't think there was mutual agreement, no agreement, no embassy I would have thought but I suspect the US knew what would happen, great PR.
BM3
I am a time traveler from the future and where I come from people understand that the internet is a place to get information designed specifically for you by the people you pay taxes to. Other governments are all bad, and we don't dare cross IP borders... especially since they implemented IP v1984 and all networks only have access to their own IP segments and all traffic on said segments route through a connection direct to the government run 'packet enhancer'. It's fun and safe!
A little known inconvenient truth. The world always has, and will continue to have empires and nations of super power status. Now that we got that out of the way, ask yourself this. WHO would you rather have this title?
Life is not for the lazy.
Yet it's the US which banned providing internet services for Iran, Cuba and others long time ago. And now when Iran blocks obvious US propaganda site, it's now evil. I have no love for Iran, but... US, shut the fuck up.
slashdot wouldn't read the rest of my post if I didn't start with something punny...
Protests are just one step. You have to vote them out. And make more people, everyone you know, vote them out.
I don't have a sig.
76 consecutive nights of bombing.
Now, compare to 9/11, and America's reaction and expectation that the entire world would jump immediately to their side, and ... well sometimes the gag reflex is hard to suppress.
The Blitz is a badge of honor for England due to how they reacted to it (no reaction). They probably love the idea of a team called the London Blitz. Actually, I know for a *fact* they love the idea since the British team, in Britain, created by a British guy who apparently loves American Football and created this team in said British league for a sport made in America, is named after it. A better analogy for you would be, how would Americans feel if an American team, based in America, run by an American, playing...cricket or something...called themselves the Pearl Harbor Bombs. You might get some protesting, but it's hardly as if another country, not the country where something HAPPENED, called themselves something.
Also, y'know, the blitz happened in the MIDDLE OF A WAR. Not out of frigging nowhere like Pearl Harbor or 9/11.
What's more atrocious? Watching someone get punched in the head repeatedly during a boxing match? Or watching a guy rabbit punch some random stranger in the street?
Awlaki, a US citizen, was murdered basically because he expressed certain views. Those views might have been repugnant, but palatability is not really a consideration in free speech, and we are certainly not the bastion of free speech we once were. See for example, the court case from the 70s involving Nazis being allowed to march in Skokie: http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/strwhe.html
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
Americans are clueless. Iran has plenty of reason to hate the USA and it is justified. It will take time and a lot of old people dying off (oddly, it may take the USA longer to grow out of it than the victims.)
BTW, I'm one of the few informed Americans and I have no ties to Iran but that shouldn't need to be said to somebody who knows the history of the situation.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
It looks like Wikipedia has its dates wrong (it says 2001), since the New York Times supports your date as well, but that doesn't change the fact that he is not rotting in prison (he was released years ago) as the earlier comment claims. Furthermore, Iqbal's allegations against the government went on to be heard by the Supreme Court (see Ashcroft v. Iqbal).
Propaganda has no place on Slashdot. Stick to the facts (that's not directed at you, Maow, but is just a general statement regarding this whole discussion).
Yeah, but what most people think of as Mexican food is really Tex-Mex. Be prepared for disappointment!
"Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day; set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life
I dont get it. It looks ok to me...?
Are you saying its good or bad?
Sure it has some pro US propaganda, but its their government site, thats what I'd expect...
Just the one with the most prisoners. And legal bribery of your politicians. And more military than basically the world combined.
Utopia |<---------- CONTINUUM ---------->| Dystopia
Idiot.
Yes, you are. And a secondary analphabet, apparently.
Upward mobility is a slippery slope - the higher you climb the more you show your ass.
Did you get turned down for a green card again?
Microsoft said it was in the mail... :)
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
I would say that objectively things are even better in the Northern European countries like Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Finland. They offer all those freedoms plus better social care plus less religious nuts.
- Raynet --> .
I was with you until Pearl Harbor, then it all went down hill...
Pearl Harbor also happened in a middle of a war, the one US was silly enough to ignore up until then. If US had assisted in the Blitz, Pearl Harbour would not have happened because those ships would be at sea.
Also, "Out of nowhere"? That's a little overrated isn't it? Most bombings are out of nowhere otherwise they are generally prevented. Name a single bombing that the target knew about and let happen (besides industrial mining and the likes).
And I don't blame Iran either. Iranian politics may range from backward through stupid to evil, but their jingoism is carefully stoked and fueled by the US, and this move is just the latest of that.
This wasn't diplomacy, and it wasn't an embassy, virtual or otherwise. An embassy's job is to interact and negotiate with the Iranian government on behalf of the US, not "inform" Iranian citizens of what the US government thinks about the Iranian government. Calling it an embassy is an insult.
Real diplomacy would require an actual conversation between US and Iranian leadership, with both sides coming to a table ready to make concessions and compromises. And setting up a real embassy would require sending a real ambassador to Iran. Doing either of these would require balls, both for the US and Iran. That'd be a courageous foreign policy. If the US were to propose this to Iran, it would likely be rejected (especially now), but making the offer at all would be radical progress.
Hear hear!
I looked at Wikipedia (as I agree the facts are important), and I'm wondering if there's a confluence of stories here.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashcroft_v._Iqbal#Facts:
The Washington Post story I quoted said,
How close is Hicksville to Brooklyn? Here's what I found ( http://www.findlocalweather.com/forecast.php?forecast=pass&pass=distances&dpp=0&pands1x=Hicksville%2C+NY&pands2x=brooklyn%2C+ny&Find+distance=How+far+is+it%3F ):
It appears that Javed Iqbal is a rather common Pakistani name, so maybe the Wikipedia entry incorrectly conflates the two guys, only one being the satellite TV installer?
Fair enough, original post was incorrect, rotted in prison perhaps. However, original post was correct in the charges against some guy by that name. The guy hurling accusation of anti-American propaganda was wrong on that, and gave an example apparently of a different case.
Cheers
Not the U.S that is for sure. We don't need super powers, this is a modern concept based on the heritage of WW2 when all the european powers came out completely redimensioned. The US (if not for the Soviet Union) would have had complete free reign to do whatever the fuck it wanted over the entire world. And even with the Soviet Union, the US managed to bring untold sufference and misery in South and Central America.
We need a multipolar world, not a unipolar world with a bully running amok. And stop, please stop considering the US somehow the saviour of the world. You're not and have never been any kind of saviour.
You advocate democracy within your own borders and move quickly to silence democracy in other countries when their democratically elected governments don't align to US views. Does Chile ring a bell ?
Hint: The US has only been around under 300 years. Have a look at world history before that time. Let me know how great things were.
I guess it would be a bit difficult to distinguish differences between that period and now that are unrelated to the existence of the USA. A better approach to answering your question might be to take a look at what the USA has accomplished recently in the area of peace and war.
1. The USA saved Europe from the nazi assholes. Probably the most world-changing event of recent history. Subsequently they got into a cold war with Russia, which was kind of a pity ...
2. The cold war spilled over into Afghanistan (which was communist at the time), resulting in the USA funding the Mujahideen guerilla movement, which ultimately led to the bombing of the twin towers and the invasion of Afghanistan. About the same happened in Vietnam, where the northern communists and the southern democrats were fighting a war and the USA decided to fight along. Fortunately, this has not resulted in things with planes and skyskrapers. Quite the opposite happened: the world was overwhelmed by Vietname loempias:-)
3. Due to ties with Germany, the Iran of the WW2 era was invaded by both the USSR and Brittain, which were after its railroads and oil. When the war was over, Iran became a democratic nation that subsequently took back their oil wells. The USA (supported by the UK) somehow thought it would be a nice idea to overthrow that government in Operation Ajax. This eventually led to the theocratic government of the Iran of today.
4. These events in Iran worried Iraq. These worries eventually resulted in the Iran-Iraq war, in which the USA supported Iraq. This war ended in a tie and it left Iraq with an economic disaster which they tried to compensate by stealing Kuwait. This eventually led to the Iraq war.
So what would the world have looked like without the USA? Europe would probably still be the Third Reich but the Cold War would never have happened and Afghanistan and Iran would have been democracies. So it would have been horrible for Europe - or at least for its civilians - but for the world as a whole it might actually have turned out quite OK. So as far as I'm concerned, it's a tie. However, being a European, I'm quite glad the USA was around to save our ass;-) Also I'm a big fan of Vietnamese food:P The average Afghan, Vietnamese, Iranian or Iraqi person would probably thing otherwise, though.
0x or or snor perron?!
We helped defeat the Nazis, which rescued the Soviets, and begat the Cold War which begat Jihadists etc.
I'm sorry what?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_World_War_II
You need to get your history straight. Soviets didn't need rescuing, you rescued Europe from becoming an extension of CCCP.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1390229/posts
As for who would be better off with what, who can say...
If they're okay with it, I'm okay with it.
But if you searched for "Pearl Harbour Attack" and found a link to act of war in 1941 and a Hawaiian Rugby Team by the same name, and it didn't cause you to give it a second glance,...
That would be strange, wouldn't it?
Although, on second (or third) thought, not a bad name for a sports team in an aggressive sport. Wouldn't work for cricket.
Didn't miss that part. But it doesn't mean that there was no affiliation with NFL Europa.
Although it appears there wasn't, so I'm somewhat surprised.
tragedy + time = humor
Axis would have won regardless of US involvement. Germany and Italy declared war on the United States after Pearl Harbor December 11 1941.
On Jan 5th 1942 General Zhukov began of a major Red Army offensive and Germany had been retreating since then.
US have accelerated Axis defeat, but it did not decide the outcome of WW2.
Ok can't stop. Ultimately this whole mess was caused by the central European powers that were responsible for the First World War of which now only Germany and France are left as somewhat powerful nations. And they though it would somehow be a great idea to start the Greatest Monetary Experiment Ever (the Euro) and draw in all nations around them. Another great idea of them was to transfer the sovereign power of those nations to a hardly democratic central government in which 23 official languages are spoken. Without consent of their inhabitants, that is. The future is left to the imagination of the reader but let's hope the USA sticks around ...
0x or or snor perron?!
This isn't surprising. I really doubt the US gov is stupid enough to think that Iran wouldn't censor it. They likely built it so Iran can censor it. It's just another PR stunt by the US to further alienate Iran from the rest of the world.
It isn't a coincidence that Spies are outed in the US at very politically expedient times. The Russian spies were "found" during the peak of anti-missile talks , an Iranian spy was "found" recently just when Iran's Nuclear issues were reemerging. A Syrian spy was found recently as well. It seems clear that the US gov knows and tolerates these people, until they can score an advantage out of them. Monitoring known spies is better than kicking them out and giving foreign intelligence a chance to refine their skills.
"Blue Dog" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Dog_Coalition. Reality is in US politics you should ignore the political party, which is just a marketing and public relations creation and focus on the individuals involved. The US elections are won or lost to corporate puppets in the primaries, once the primaries are over, so in reality the US elections are over and you either have representatives of the people or corporate stooges. As for the US President, when it comes to laws, try to understand the difference between the executive and the legislative. What better laws then start paying attention during the primaries.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
Are you saying Iran needs to implement a slashdot type moderation system for its internet and allow its citizens to moderate the US sites into "oblivion"?
Sure beats being imprisoned and... beaten to death...
From http://iran.usembassy.gov/
"In democracies, respecting rights isn't a choice leaders make day-by-day, it is the reason they govern."
"When a government hides its work from public view, hands out jobs and money to political cronies, administers unequal justice, looks away as corrupt bureaucrats and businessmen enrich themselves at the people's expense, that government is failing its citizens," stated U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton during the opening of the multi-country Open Government Partnership (OGP) Forum last week.
-- Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton
I would argue that the U.S. has already failed its citizens.
How about you don't lump us all together as imperialist, culture-bound yahoos?
I have lived in the US and I would never lump Americans together as imperialists. Actually, I wouldn't dream of lumping them together as *anything*. Not a clever thing to do with Americans.
OTOH, the US as a country - meaning the elected government - has imperialist policies and attitude, and has had them for a while now. It is up to US citizens to decide whether they care. In recent decades, the response has been underwhelming.
Gravitation is a theory, not a fact.
Name a single bombing that the target knew about and let happen (besides industrial mining and the likes).
9/11 ? :D
Propaganda has no place on slashdot but this whole story is about propaganda. A foreign embassy or diplomatic mission http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embassy is about maintaining relations between governments and providing resources for legally visiting citizens.
The virtual embassy is a total failure in that it is nothing more that marketing, public relations and propaganda tool of the US Government.
It would not be accepted for real foreign embassies to produce anti-government marketing campaigns in the country they are being hosted by, so why would it be accepted by virtual ones and really who would be arrogant and stupid enough to do it in that manner, gees Hillary go play with some cigars instead and stop embarrassing your country ie take out anything that would not appear in a normal embassy web site.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
I try to not give into conspiracy theories :)
But just this once, assuming you are right, they still did not know it will be a "bombing". Everyone thought it would be a hostage situation, up until the first plane crashed.
Unless of course you argue that they still knew and let it happen, but the burden of proof is on you there my friend.
Start with your own damn country.
Oh how you assume that Press TV is for US citizens... sure, they broadcast in English and are critical of the United States, but then again most of the world speaks English and is critical of the United States as well. Therefore, Press TV is generally well received worldwide; I don't really think how Americans feel about them matters that much to them.
I expect Press TV be biased, but I also expect bias from the BBC, Reuters, Associated Press, New York Times, Al Jazeera, Russia Today, and many others. Sometimes Press TV has the kind of bias that is worth paying attention to. Sometimes it doesn't.
I feel that we really can use more of the cheap oil.
www.foxnews.com is also a web site set up for US citizens to read propaganda and it is still up as well.
blindly antisocialist = antisocial
First of they were not indroduced by rePublicans, supported yes indroduced by Democrats. The buck stops with the president, he can veto the thing. He can even veto the thing if congress has the numbers to overcome the veto it would still be law though. IMHO anything a president signs his/her responsibility and culpability for are equal to that of the CONgress people who wrote it or voted for it. If Obama cares about freedom of speech and personal property rights he will veto it, if he cares more about his campaign donnars he will sign it. I can guess the outcome, but who knows he may surprise me.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
On that note: http://boingboing.net/2011/03/08/passport-ownership-p.html
Correlation, causation and all that but somewhat interesting.
The main thing to think about is that if one consider the surface area of USA, a person living there can travel from winter to summer and back again without ever showing a passport, encountering someone not speaking english, or accepting payment in dollars.
comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
>> They probably love the idea
We honestly couldn't give a fuck.
This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
as long as you do not speak up against wall street, bend over so TSA can stuff their arm up your insides and limits "whoever" to the wall street appointed options.
comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
Ideally, nobody...
Still, i find myself thinking of the Dune reference volume where the seat of the empire was tracked all the way back to Alexander the great, with a stop in London and Washington before heading into space.
comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
Actually, I would think that all the oceans would drain into a single large ocean/sink hole, the reduction in gravity throws everything in orbit out of kilter (possibly even the moon?), and millions die of famine.
On the plus side, the middle east problems would be the least of people's worries. Higher on the list (of survivors) would be: "Is my country going to disappear next?"
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
They have a concept of Iran, but that's about it. If you're Iranian, you don't exist, in their heads, and so what happens to you *doesn't matter*.
This is pretty much true of any remote population. To the people of {A}, {B} is just a place name. To the people of {B}, {A} is just a place name. Lines in the sand and the flags we plant near them.
The difference between comedy and tragedy is ones proximity to the situation.
I personally think the whole thing with Iran stinks and smells like a CIA plant. look at Libya one of the first things the "rebels' did was set up a central bank, what kind of fucking rag tag bunch of freedom fighters rush to set up a central fricking bank before the firing is even halfway over? Not to mention watch the video of MoMo getting killed and nearly all his captors are wearing Qatar military uniforms and hey, guess who has a large base in Qatar? That would be the US military. Now there are 20,000 plus Russian stinger knockoff that old MoMo had bought in the hands of who the fuck knows, all because old MoMo threatened to sell his oil for gold instead of supporting the petro-dollar. Not saying MoMo wasn't a douche, but the whole thing smells like astroturf by the CIA using the Arab Springs as cover.
Sadly the USA has been the puppet of AIPAC and Israel for many years now thanks to what I call the "Jesus won't come back! Come back Jesus come back!" brigade that wouldn't care if we had to slaughter every brown person in the middle east to make Israel happy as long as there is a Jew in Zion.
So i'm sure we'll get lots more "teh evil Iranians want to kill us ZOMFG!" propaganda in the coming months, just as we saw that to this day something like 40% of US citizens think we attacked Iraq because of 9/11. The Jews don't like the idea of anyone else in the region having the bomb even thought they have dozens if not hundreds of them, but frankly after Iraq any country in that area that didn't kiss the US bankster and military ass would be nuts NOT to want a bomb, as its the only way to keep the warmongers in the halls of power from running you down.
final prediction? Now that we are pulling out if Iraq so we have the troops it'll be a toss up as to whether we go after Iran or Syria, neither country should be feeling too safe right now. Sadly the MSM has gotten so damned good at propaganda the POTUS could come out and say Iran caused 9/11 and many of the people would buy it without a second thought.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Yes, the GP was wrong by using the word "everything". It's called a hyperbole. Are you claiming that nothing is wrong with US? Are you saying that no problems would disappear if US disappeared tomorrow?
What are the different competing mainstream political views in, ummm...., Malaysia? In China? What are the relative strengths of different opinions of the US among far-eastern Russians'? You probably don't know, most people in most countries probably don't know, and it's hardly surprising. I happen to have heard of Michele Bachmann, and of Fox News, and the tea partiers, and Sarah Palin and quite a few others and know a little of US politics.....but I'm an Economist-reading English speaker in a democratic country with a substantially free press and historical links to the US. I know more about US politics than politics in my neighbouring countries. Of course most people in most countries will have a simplified lumped-together view of the US, based on local and US media, the actions of its government, how US-associated products are advertised and perceived, and so on. He might be right, and remain right if he put any other country in that sentence instead of 'US'. Average citizens tend to have simplified views because there are many countries and foreign politics is just not that interesting...they have better things to do.
The clamp down on the OWS is not a free speech issue. The OWS protestors are welcome to show up every day and protest. They are just not allowed to camp out in public parks/someone else's property unless those places are designated for such activity/they have the permission of the owners. The clamp down occurred because the OWS "protestors" were for all intents and purposes living at those locations. The rest of your points have validity. Including about how stupid this website was in the first place.
Personally I love the quote from the website that sites Hillary Clinton (speaking as a member of the current Administration) saying that behaviors of the current Administration are a demonstration of the government failing its citizens.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
The US isn't totally uncaring about the Iranian regime's human rights abuses or weapons of mass destruction. They do have oil, after all.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Who ever rated this funny needs a talking to. Thus comment is one of the most insightful ones on this thread!
But as soon as we did we would have dozens of Countries asking or begging for our support.
Are you aiming for +5 Funny? Last time I saw this argument it was called the White Man's burden or something.
The fact that you're instead modded as +5 Insightful sickens me.
Don't quote me on this.
A little known inconvenient truth. The world always has, and will continue to have empires and nations of super power status. Now that we got that out of the way, ask yourself this. WHO would you rather have this title?
What truth? The complaint is not about the US having super power status. It's about the US abusing its super power status. The hypothetical idea that some other evil regime would do worse if they had superpower status is NO EXCUSE for the crimes and abuses committed by the US government.
Don't quote me on this.
The US does this, IRAN does that, CHINA does this other....
When the hell are people gonna wake up and realize these are not countries they are governments which are a great deal smaller than the number of people living in a bordered land mass.
When you remove the soldier pawns and any other pawns what you have left is something less than 1%.
I find it very insulting to know that stories are being written insinuating I'\m part of some psychopathic collective.
I am not part of that crap and I'm certain I share this sentiment with a large majority of people on this planet.
ICE could always seize the domain on grounds of support for terrorism...
Copyright is already enough of an excuse and it doesn't even get anyone killed.
Then you're going to love it when the Chinese and Russians take our place as super powers. I will enjoy watching your rioting, pathetic masses of children being tortured and then crushed under the boot heels of actual nationalist imperialists on CNN (well, before those self same governments kick the free press out, anyway).
If you feel the need to dream up improbable scenarios to justify the actual and real atrocities committed by the US government, I pity you.
Don't quote me on this.
Maybe the whole WORLD just plain sucks ass.
That reasoning of "they're not really Democrats" opens the way for counterargument in the same vein -- "Bush wasn't fiscally conservative, thus he's not a real Republican, so the party can't be tarnished by his actions." I doubt anyone on /. would accept that line of reasoning for the Bush example, so why pursue it here?
Anyway, I thought it prudent to point out the complicity of both sides, especially in response to a parent post that was factually inaccurate.
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
You understand that 'Blitz' is a very common American Football term, don't you? You also realize that the name, most likely, was agreed upon by the local club owners.
"Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
Further case in point, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Blitz_(American_football).
Yes, it appears that an American football team, based in London, named themselves after the 76 nights of consecutive bombing.
How'd America like a European-style football (soccer) team based in NY naming itself the New York Nine Elevens? Boggles the mind.
You know that old saying "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity?" It could be good old fashioned American ignorance at work here. I'm American and I can tell you that a really large number of Americans operate under the principle that "If it didn't happen here, it didn't happen". It's worth mentioning that "blitz" is an American football term for a play where the defense sends more rushers after the quarterback than normal (normal is 3 or 4 depending on the defense). Blitzing is a high risk, high reward kind of play. If it works, the quarterback may be tackled ("sacked") for a loss, throw the ball away for an incomplete pass or be intercepted on a rushed pass. If it fails and the quarterback gets off a successful pass, the receiver may get a bigger gain than normal due to few defenders being available in coverage. I suspect someone on the team thought that London Blitz sounded like a cool, footbally name for a team and was just completely ignorant of the London Blitz in WWII. After all, we're living in a country where people under 30 actually believe that "prolly" is a real word, so I certainly would tend to blame ignorance here as the main cause.
I suspect this is all just a polar bear plot, to get one step nearer the penguins.
At least the parent was considerate, thoughful and thought provoking. I know what f*ck means, but seeing f*uck, I know instantly that the parent poster has a much more defined vocabulary, and therefore smarter, than myself. I can't imagine why they weren't instantly set to +1 insightful.
The White House condemned the move, calling Iran's internet policies 'an electronic curtain of surveillance and censorship around its people.
Really? REALLY? F*UCK YOU U.S. You are EVERYTHING that is wrong with the world. Go f*cking away and stop crying about people why just want to live their lifes peacefully. You worthless pieces of shit who attack other countries and everyone who doesn't like your limited religious views. You are the scumbag of earth. Go eat your shit. You want to know why we dont like you? BECAUSE YOU TRY TO TELL US WHAT TO DO TO, YOU STUPID SCUMBAGS.
I8-D
Why is Iran the problem, if they did that for Egypt or Syria, or China, you would have the same response, yet Iran are the bad guys now???
Come on.....I understand that as a person I see this as a very censored government keeping its people uninformed and stupid on purpose in order to control them easily...but it is THEIR country.....next time when you invade, do it properly and assimilate them into the US population and constitution....end of story.....
You can not cry over another countries policies (and only that one yet others are just as bad....) and then figure you can push them into what you want them to do....
I have lost some respect for the US government now....
I have this idea that someday the US will grow up to be the Nation it should be...the father of them all, and start offering assimilation packages to all countries out there...if the other country wants to join up, they get special privileges no other country has, a massive backbone....but all they r belongs to US....
they become another state that has to follow the constitution and the laws of the US. This would grow until there would be very few countries left (3rd world)
and only the big ones would be left, and by that time the US population would be so massive that it could dictate better living conditions for all states(countries) within it....and also make it officially a world union.
Let it happen naturally by offering this to others (instead of Hitler's way by taking that country over) and you will get down to one world nation with one set of rules, and those set of rules defined by the people....instead of dictators in other countries that tell the people what they want them to do....!!!
And don't even get me started on what we let the Saudi's get away with.
And South America...holy shit. That whole continent is like one giant CIA clusterfuck.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Ok, that's it! I'm firing up battlefield and invading Tehran! Too bad no Iranians can stop me! Muahahahaha!
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
... Corporate p0wnership of your election process. Countrywide/BofA and the bank and wall street bailouts. Not one bailout bankster in jail. ...
Wait a minute..."p0wnership"? "Bankster"? Where have you been since Penny Arcade last saw you?
You sir, are an idiot.
You don't seem to understand how conspiracy theories work.... The evidence is that the evidence doesn't exist anymore. That's why you know the evidence was real.
That sounds more like a religion
Personally, I love it when we promote democracy in Middle Eastern countries and are then subsequently horrified at an Islamist majority being elected.
Kind of the important part about democracy is that the people choose how they want. Oops.
We spend a couple of trillion fighting a heavy-handed Islamist government in Afghanistan that runs a lot of Sharia law, and then we end up with (not so heavy-handed) Islamists elected in Iraq. And Egypt. And probably other places that kicked out old dictators under the "Arab Spring". Oh God, I do appreciate the irony.
Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
No no, with religion, the evidence is there, you just don't have enough faith to see it yet.
Our behavior didn't change after communism failed.
Or hallucinogenics.
The US having a bit less of an influence in world affairs (through choice or through, well, obsolescence?) would be nicer, as they might even seem more legitimate if they weren't able to be interpreted as "that big bully in the west that thinks it owns the world."
I mean, people would try, but a lot less would fall for it.
That's just like saying the world will always have institutional world-wide slavery, or witch-hunts, or colonialism. You can't evolve society if you base all of your decisions on the belief that we can't change.
A good chunk of the police departments participating in the coordinated crackdown on OWS were given (and followed) strict orders to terrorize participants by using zipcuffs tight enough to cut off blood, and going as close to (but just enough not to) breaking legs/feet when arresting them as to force compliance through fear.
So that IS the kind of actions you'd see in a minor police state that is looking to avoid international intervention.
Public parks are public - they're "owned" by the people. If people choose to camp out on them as a means of protesting against the governments' policies wrt the bail-outs and Wall Street greed and influence on the political process, it's a legitimate free-speech issue.
So, what would you say if they rotated out - each protester left the site for 1 hour a day, so that they were not "living there" - would that be okay? How about if they made it 12 hours a day - and half took the day shift, and the other half the night shift? Would that be okay?
Or is it just that it's only okay to protest during office hours? In which case, you're denying the first amendment rights of people who work during that period ... as well as it being an arbitrary and unjustifiable restraint on free speech.
Now, let's look at it from the other side. If the OWS protesters WERE to be considered as living there, as you claim, then they have a 4th Amendment right to be free of search and seizure except with a warrant, duly issued. And that warrant has to clearly identify them, not just as Jane Doe # 27, as per the 4th Amendment.
And p0wnage is a term well-understood by the community, which perfectly describes what the lobbyists have done to the political process.
If a mentally ill person considers himself Napoleon, does that make him Emperor of France? Besides, being a "unitary executive" would just mean he took responsibility for all executive power-- and I hope you realize that we have two other branches of government which kept him from becoming "king". Regardless, your defense of Obama (as if Obama and W are diametrically opposed in philosophy) is ridiculous when you look at the economy and the way he creates conflict and places blame instead of solving problems. And Obama has signed EOs at about the same rate as the last few presidents.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
I am outraged or something like that.
lol...a perfect example of the pot calling the kettle black.
"The clamp down on the OWS is not a free speech issue."
Actually... it very well may be. There is considerable debate regarding this very notion... Please don't rant and pretend that the speech aspect of this is settled.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/18/us-usa-protests-law-idUSTRE7AH2OE20111118
http://newsandinsight.thomsonreuters.com/Legal/News/2011/11_-_November/ANALYSIS__Is_sleeping_speech_/
http://news.yahoo.com/analysis-sleeping-zuccotti-park-free-speech-232305668.html
That the protestors are breaking existing law is NOT the same argument as whether or not those laws interfere with freedom of speech rights.
Those laws are being tested, as is the definition of what is considered to be freedom of speech.
Speaking as an authority on the hypothetical just makes you sound silly... Until this topic hits the Supreme Court, both arguments (laws restricting freedom of speech -leading to a valid protest being re-interpreted or discarded... AS WELL AS... freedom of speech trumping existing laws - leading to those laws being re-interpreted or discarded) have merit.
Sorry that your strong opinion isn't yet based in solid fact... time may prove you to be correct. For now, you're just ranting. =)
where is sue? sue is idle.
Do you base this straw man on anything, or is it something you just cooked up in your mom's basement? I've known Iran quite well, ever since they took our people hostage in 1979. I know exactly what kind of people they are-- including the wonderful ones I've had a chance to meet and work with. Those are the intelligent, ambitious ones who left that disgusting mess of a failed state.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
My bad phrasing. I realized as I hit Submit that the "other" in that sentence would be misleading.
Nonetheless we don't block Iranian websites. Or anything else.
Umm, no. If there were enough demand for Al-Jazeera, there would be someone showing it.
Almighty dollar, remember? We're the Evil Americans who worship the dollar, and we're not going to lose a few of them because we refrained from showing a channel that's anti-American...
Would be hard for me, I don't do cable. Easier to go to their website. Which, oddly enough, is the first hit when I google al-jazeera. I see that the Egyptian Army has decided it doesn't like this whole Democracy thing....
Nah, you're probably right - I should have used "Farsi".
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
it is not the place of the US to incite rebellion in Iran
Oh the horrors! Someone put up a website! Now all the Iranians will have to login and read all of it. You know, people wouldn't rebel unless they agree. If they really are content with their lifes, they would see the site, possibly read it, say "I don't agree", and log off.
As long as they don't have a tent or structure they aren't living there'. At least that's been the general rule until now.
In Portland(OR), you can sleep in the open.
really, if they say you can't and arrest you, they will need to start arresting every homeless person; which might not be a bad thing but it would certainly be an expensive endeavor.
Interesting 4th amendment point.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
She should have told that to Blagojevich!
I am unaware of any searches done on the people at the OWS encampments, except when they were arrested for trespassing when they were told to leave. I believe that the line was crossed when they started sleeping at these locations. If they had rotated out so that at any given time the overwhelming majority were awake that would move it in to being something that could at least be argued as protected on First Amendment grounds.
I am not really interested in arguing with you about the behavior of the spoiled brat children of the 1% who make up the majority of the Occupy protesters.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
Only a moron would compare response to WWII to something that happened in the 21st century.
Completely ignoring other events of the time? Just stupid.
The events are not comparable. Not at all.
And for the record, most Americans would probably find the American football team name appalling if they understood the London blitz.
That said, they did NOT name themselves after that event. Blitz is a football term, and they are in London.
In 1941, the US and the world was a vastly different place.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
And with conspiracy theories, you are smart enough to see the evidence.
It's the same thing.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
It is only being debated by those who were cheering the protests on. Zucotti park is private property, after the owners asked them to leave, they were trespassing. The other articles are from Rueters which fully supported the "Occupy" movement.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
The "Virtual Embassy" nonsense was a political stunt from the start. Did anybody seriously think it would not be blocked by the Iranian government? Politicians aren't known for being very clever, but even they must have seen this coming.
Yes, actually it did.
The red army offensive would never have gotten all the way to Berlin without the US. And to think there efforts would have helped England and
It was stupid of Germany to invade Russia at that time., and the Red Army work valiantly and heroically to beat the Germans back, but they would never have gone all the way. Without the US efforts, Germany would have focused more men in the homeland.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
The nature of man. From a cultural aspect you can subdue it, but only for a limited time before it too becomes eroded and corrupted with our true genetic nature. It's the ultimate battle of mind over matter. The force of nature that moves chemistry, DNS, and ultimately our genetic predisposition will always be at the heart of human civilization. And as nature has proven through evolution, only the strong survive to displace the meek. In the end, violence wins out in whatever form it make take. Be it at the tip of a sword, barrel of a gun, or receiving end of a thermonuclear warhead.
In short, yes. We can't change much as you think we can. You can obfuscate human nature, but you can't really change the end results much. Unless you want to do something profoundly radical such as re-write the human genome, perhaps.
Life is not for the lazy.
Nice how you overlooked the other 150+ wars / skirmishes mentioned (only during 20th century) and supplied no links of your own.
Protecting its profit?
There's never been a war that the US hasn't loved... except for the two World Wars, that was the point, one you utterly failed to address.
You don't have to be awake to be actively taking part in a protest. Your presence, and your activities while you're awake, are sufficient. The protesters were exercising their 1st Amendment rights, on public lands.
I've done a few civil rights protests, and one of them was 10 days straight ... I certainly wasn't awake the whole time. But as long as I was on public property, and didn't impede anyone else, there was nothing the police could do.
On one occasion, the police did issue tickets. I refused to vacate and end the protest, and the ticket was later thrown out of court because it was clearly unconstitutional. I didn't even get to present the case - the judge threw it out before I got a chance to even enter a plea of not guilty.
It's a shame to see that people are now dumping on others who are speaking up for almost everyone.
The OWS movement may actually have helped provided some half-decent shelter and human contact to homeless individuals. Instead of shutting them down, the cities should have tried to use the opportunity to do a bit of outreach. Tap into a bit of the idealism there to maybe get some of the people involved in helping solve the problem.
Yes, there were drug and booze problems at OWS sites - but there are drug and booze problems everywhere, including in law enforcement and the legislature.
People want to work, they want a job, they want dignity, and they want a sense of equal justice. The politicians showed that they can't think outside the box by not seizing the opportunity. They showed who they don't serve ... and by contrast, who they do.
These are excuses fascists use to excuse their immorality and violence. You can fucking keep it for yourself.
Is that why dinosaurs are still around? The most adaptable survive. You're at the top of your food chain because you can think, use tools, plan ahead, and adapt to your environment beyond your genetic attachments, not because you're the strongest. You speak as if you've derived all of your thoughts from some uneducated Republican.
You mean people like Michael Moore and Alec Baldwin (to name just two of the 1% who took part in the OWS protests).
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
Al Jazeera, in Arabic, is available in northeast Ohio. Not sure about Farsi, and not sure whether it is cable or satellite - my guess is the latter.
Nonaggression works!
I think if a whole fucking country just dissapeared, you would have bigger issues than foreign policy and censorship.
Yes, I'm sure that if another country overthrew our democratically-elected government and installed a dictator, our subsequent revolutionaries wouldn't storm that country's embassy and take hostages. No, sir. I wager we'd probably simply kill them all.
USians, except in inner cities, have no conception of what war truly is. To many, it is the patriotic and commendable practice of sending our boys "there" so they don't have to fight the eeevil "terrorists" here. When you're on the other side, the one being mass murdered instead of the one doing the murdering, it looks very different. It's maiming, grief, loss of precious loved ones, destruction of everything including all means of earning an income, relatively fast but painful death from bullets and bombs and burning alive, slower and even more painful death from hunger and malnutrition and preventable illnesses such as cancers and birth defects caused by chemical and nuclear weapons including depleted uranium. It is the negation and the violent slaughter not only of all possible life, but of everything that could possibly make life worth living. War is not merely evil; it is the sum of all evils (Stonewall Jackson?). Those who start it, and those on the aggressor side(s) who participate in it in any way that could possibly be avoided, deserve to burn in a thousand hells, concurrently, for a thousand eternities. I am a USian myself, and beyond ashamed. I took an oath to defend my country against aggressors, back at a time when I was blissfully unaware that the US itself is the greatest aggressor nation of all time. I now honor that oath in one of only a few ways I possibly can, by trying to educate myself and others about, among other things, the incredible amount of enslaving, kidnapping, rape, and murder perpetrated by the U.S. government, on people both here and abroad. It must stop, and it will stop, and I will continue to do all I can, until they imprison or kill me, to make it stop.
Nonaggression works!
Statistically, most of the 1% are against OWS.
imperialist American who celebrates American hegemony.
Our forefathers would be proud.
This move was condemned by the same government who recently tried to push the SOPA act... So they bad-mouth Iran, after they tried pulling the same thing here at home?!?! I guess the U.S. brass is irony impaired
after Iraq any country in that area that didn't kiss the US bankster and military ass would be nuts NOT to want a bomb, as its the only way to keep the warmongers in the halls of power from running you down.
This. The US has Iran surrounded with occupying forces, and executes covert operations and surveillance in Iran itself and keeps the fifth fleet not a stone's throw away. With continual threats of overt military strikes from US and Israel, and a covert war against Iran already underway, it is strategically vital for them to develop a nuclear capability to deter their aggressive, pre-emptive war-starting neighbors.
What do you base this statement on? Every member of the 1% I have heard speak has been supportive of the OWS, everyone I have heard speak against it is not a member of the 1% (that does not mean that no one in the 1% opposes OWS, just that those I have heard opposing it are not members of the 1%).
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
It's a shame to see that people are now dumping on others who are speaking up for almost everyone.
This is the mistake that most such people make, they claim to speak for people who want no part of what they are saying. The Tea Party protests did not claim to be speaking for anybody but themselves, yet the OWS, which is even less representative of the American population claims to be speaking for "almost everyone".
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
How is that insightful? The US is one of the most free societies on the planet. We aren't censored from a damn thing. Like pretty much every developed nation there's been a merger of the corporate world with politics. You might not like the policy, but we're not censored here.
I guess you missed Herman Cain (yes, Cain is a 1%er).
Basic English fail :-) There is a difference between saying a group represents another group, and saying that a group is representative of another group.
Example: I may represent a group in negotiations, without being representative of (having anything in common or being like) any member of that group.
OWS represents the American population, including those who are either intimidated or don't have time to participate. They do not have to be an exact representation of the population to do so, any more than a black lawyer has to change skin colour to represent a white crack-head.
How this comment is +5 insightful rather than marked troll, I don't know. I have seen plenty of anti-US posts that I would mod insightful, but those were honest.
"So much as make a peep of a protest"
The OWS protests went on for weeks, and you couldn't go a day without hearing about them (mainstream coverage could have been better, but alternate sources are readily available). Yes, the coordinated crackdowns were overdone but tanks and assault rifles? Citation please. And read up on Tienneman before you claim the US is the worst of the bunch (or anywhere in the same league).
slaughtering our citizens too, having the highest incarceration rate
I'm not proud of this, I want to see an end to the war on drugs, but imprisoning is not the same as slaughtering (see Syria for an example). Also, our inmates are actually quite well off compared to many citizens in the countries you think we outdo (such as NK). So far as I hear, Western Europe has better prison conditions, but you weren't comparing the US to Europe (which would be a good way to earn an insightful mod).
Just because their acts of inhumanity are public and ours are private
We don't have very good numbers on citizens killed in Syria because they've been cracking down on media. As for the US hiding inhumane actions, do you have a citation for that? I've heard that media were held back for some OWS cleanups (which is reprehensible) but the government did nothing to stop them from reporting on that, or interviewing people.
deleting domains off the internet on every server we can get our hands on that disagrees with our political agenda
Yes, we have a censorship problem, but the government isn't rampantly deleting websites - criticism to outright lies against the US government are readily available all over the place. While this is certainly an issue the US needs work on, we are NOT in the same league as countries that not only blanket ban any information supporting taboo topics, but actively put up propaganda against it and take action against those that still seek out the information. Fox news may border on propaganda, but unlike actual censoring regimes you can just as readily tune to another news station or news website for a different viewpoint. Our media could use more variety, sure, but government control isn't the issue.
My webcomic
I think you missed my point, which was two fold. First, you shouldn't ignore problems in the rest of the world just because you have your own problems. That argument is simply illogical (although highly attractive). And second, sometimes you need to act, regardless of whether you even think you should, in order to prevent things from getting worse. Example from WWII (which I brought up): if people had acted to stop Hitler before things got really bad, WWII might have been prevented. Of course, the country that did so probably would have been vilified as "messing in other peoples affairs." Why do you think people didn't stop Hitler? Because it was seen as an internal problem. By no means am I saying the US is a shining example to the world: just that people should stop, think, and reflect on history before they jump to conclusions.
"None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
I wondered where the Germans got that term from.
The London Blitz was a fucking WWII bombing campaign, how can you say it's not related in any way?
WTF, are you on drugs? Or... just a moron?
Patriotism is a laudable trait
Why? I've never quite understood that. Sure, it's a good thing you help people around you, but that's not really patriotism.
Apparently Londoners aren't appalled, so I guess I have no problem with it.
Sure does seem odd though, at first glance. Don't you think?
This isn't a simple 2-sentence-summary argument, friend.
Private property... which is required to be open to the public 24/7.
Freedom of speech... an inalienable right without deference toward property ownership.
Trespassing... on Publicly accessible property intended for public use.
Right to to peaceably assemble... but only in approved places and during approved hours.
Freedom of expression... but only within heavily interpreted (enforced) parameters.
Please, learn to think for yourself. Memorization of the words of others is mimicry... behaving as though the words make sense or are your own is ignorance.
If ANY of this were as simple and clear-cut as you suggest... we would not be having this exchange.
You make me feel a little bit sad.
where is sue? sue is idle.
Your hostility towards me only proves my point, sadly.
Life is not for the lazy.
Master hypocrits.
how is babby formed?
There's a difference between dissecting your reptilian ethics and your proposal for the continuation of worldwide violence that will kill us all if we can't adapt a different way of living.
I think your ideas are horrible and ignorant, but that doesn't mean I want to cause you bodily harm.
NO, OWS represents themselves. The majority of Americans do not wish to be represented by OWS and do not agree with the OWS agenda (which seems to be: "The government has aided the wealthy in stealing from the rest, therefore we need a more powerful government." A logic which I have trouble following).
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
I think for myself that is why I find groups like OWS offensive, as they claim to speak for others. I,also, find them offensive because they say they are upset about the abuse of government power and then call for government to be given more power in ways that are the same as what those who have profited from the abuse of government power have been proposing.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
You know... I swore I wouldn't do any trolling on this account, but you are too hard to pass on.
"call for government to be given more power in ways that are the same as what those who have profited from the abuse of government power have been proposing."
Citation necessary... or you're an ignorant fucktard! FTW!
~or~
WTF are you talking about?
where is sue? sue is idle.
Separately... they don't "claim" to speak for others. They undeniably DO speak for others... such as myself.
YOU are attempting to silence those beliefs, which makes you guilty of attempting to speak for others in the same manner which you condemn. Not-surprisingly; this is hypocritical.
Perhaps they don't speak for you... if such is the case, they are speaking TO you.
It is your responsibility to determine whether or not to listen.
where is sue? sue is idle.
I have seen many people from OWS calling for greater regulation of the banking industry, which is the same thing that Barney Frank, Chris Dodd and numerous other politicians who were directly involved in creating the crisis (and who profited from it) called for. Additionally, the Obama Administration has agreed with those calls. Yet, most of the Obama Administration members responsible for managing current financial regulations are former Goldman-Sachs employees.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
When have I attempted to silence others? I have merely expressed the opinion that i find the OWS protesters offensive.
Since you say that the OWS protesters speak for you, what do you think they are saying?
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
"what do you think they are saying?"
You can't, possibly, be serious. This tact of questioning was moronic when it was a right-wing talking point for media pundits... "The protesters say they want, in part, more and better jobs, more equal distribution of income, bank reform, and a reduction of the influence of corporations on politics" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street
What about the common themes (of which we are all painfully aware... "what do they want?" is so disingenuous) is so difficult to digest? Even if you take issue with their methods; the message is clear.
where is sue? sue is idle.
The OWS movement may actually have helped provided some half-decent shelter and human contact to homeless individuals
They did, in some cases as a result of deliberate police actions aimed at driving homeless individuals out of their previous locations and into the OWS camps, probably with the hope of giving them an excuse to wipe out OWS.
Yeah, I know they likely would have scoffed at the idea, at least that's the Libertarian mantra. The truth is, we don't know how they would have felt considering their world consisted of imperialism, colonialism, and mercantilism. People tend to reflect the biases of the culture in which they lived. For me, the Founding Fathers' opinions on any topic are interesting, but not authoritative. I'm not a libertarian. I do believe in the Constitution being a framework rather than a singular document etched in stone. Considering that the FF didn't see fit to ensure that women were equal to men, or that Irish slaves and African slaves were equal to white men, you could make the case that their invention (The Constitution) got away from them. The fact is, the FF had beliefs which would never be tolerated in a civil society today.
"More, and better jobs..." you don't get those by protesting. You get those by going out and creating them and/or getting the qualifications to get them. "more equal distribution of income,..." you get that by reducing the size of government. "bank reform"...be more specific, the Dodd-Frank bill was "bank reform", although that seems likely to make things worse. "a reduction of the influence of corporations on politics", again, be more specific. If you mean campaign finance reform, be aware that every "campaign finance" reform so far has resulted in even more dependence on corporate donations by politicians in order to run their campaigns. It has, also, resulted in making it harder to remove incumbents from office. Several studies show that the longer a politician holds office the more likely they are to be influenced by corporate interests.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
Pointing fingers is fine.
What's wrong is using a machete to chop off other people's fingers when they point back at you.
Just because the pot's black doesn't mean its opinion on the kettle is null and void.
If we did things that way then the pot would be put to shame and everyone's so focused on the pot's hypocrisy that the kettle slinks away unscathed.
They're not my ideas. It's purely scientific observation of human behavior today, and our recorded historical past. Your anger toward me is misplaced. Acceptance of factual data in fact should pave way for long-lasting cultural philosophies and methodologies of how people and live and grow together. Such concepts may range from ideologies that are liberal or extremely conservative. But the truth should always provide a baseline to which certain behavioral traits must be either confronted or avoided all together. But the true enemy of man is ignorance. If we as a species do not accept our true nature, we are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past that often lead to the downfall of civilization.
As an individual, I'm not without fault. I see myself as an inherently evil and vile being at the core when left unchallenged. To look ones self into the mirror of pure truth is truly a terrifying experience. Knowing this, I now have a better understanding of what not to be. I choose to live transcended beyond the pull of nature. I choose to put my mind over matter. And if you're honest with yourself, you will know just how hard and difficult this endeavor is with humility.
Life is not for the lazy.
It's more likely your logic that is messed up in this respect, drawing a deduction 180% opposite of the visible evidence.
A less powerful government wouldn't have bailed out GM or Wall Street - they would have feared the voters reaction.
I'm firmly against empire and the destruction of national sovereignty. The question is: do you support worldwide state violence to keep the United States in power?
I don't care about your bullshit intellectualism. The 21st century is no place for eugenics or the dogmas surrounding original sin.
Haven't the OWS protesters called for greater regulation of banks? That is a call for a more powerful government.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
Ahh, then you're in favor of nations such as N. Korea enslaving and oppressing their own people. Gotcha. I'm so glad we got that cleared up. Because God forbid we be against the destruction of that sovereign nation. Right? If you do not stand by to free man from the clutches of another man, you are by choice, the very type of person you so much despise.
Your mind is broken. Fix it! For your own sake and that of others. Please.
Life is not for the lazy.
Greater regulation of banks, along with removing laws favouring banksters and lobbyists, is an overall reduction in government powers.
Just not passing the bank and wall street bail-outs would have met the definition of fewer laws.
Or even - just enforce the existing anti-fraud laws. No new powers required.
Please do the math.
I personally am registered as independent, I tend to vote for the suit whom I think is going to fuck me in the ass the least ... not that it really matters as our wonderful electoral college ensures that your vote is tossed in the trash bin if the state votes the other way. This is how you get situations like Bush vs Gore where Gore got the most votes, but Bush got the most "points"
I said earlier that, "If ANY of this were as simple and clear-cut as you suggest... we would not be having this exchange."
Well... Your most recent reply has me convinced and I stand corrected! You clearly know what works and what does not. The protests are without merit.
These global protestors are all feebs who should cower in your shadow some more. They are completely pathetic.
where is sue? sue is idle.
Flamebait ....
Has there been a single sale of a drone to a local government agency? Or a farmer? With missiles? ... Seriously? If they were so private, why are there so many posts like your's scattered over the internet but you are still free, breathing, and allowed to publish? ... Again, 'Seriously?' How did you get all your info cited above? Infowars? Prison Planet TV?
I agree there are always select cases where the accused don't have their 'fair trial', but calling that 'oblitherated the right to a trial'. Go live in a real police state, and then let us know what you really think. Maybe go for a hike in Iran, or visit Thailand and post something disrespectful of the Thai Monarchy.
'their acts of inhumanity are public and ours are private'
'Our news sources only come from a small handful of corporations'
There is so much exaggeration and embellishment in your post, you do disrespect to the scenarios you cite. I live in a Muslim country and there is less 'liberty taken' with their reporting of such events. This comment being a '5, Insightful' just shows how many other Slashdotters are angry, but don't complain when our own use 'Fox News' tactics.
...moving very slowly and winning footraces with smug satisfaction.
They are not feebs, they are "useful idiots". The whole point of the OWS protests was to provide the Democratic Party with its own equivalent of the Tea Party. It didn't work. Those who came out were unlikely to vote for Obama and the Democrats next year and they were viewed somewhat unfavorably by the general populace. This meant that the early support by Democrats for OWS was becoming a negative going into next year's election. Which was the reason that the cities cracked down on the OWS protests right now, they are hoping that OWS is ancient history by the elections.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
The real question would be, do you support China invading the United States if they think we aren't free? You're not even thinking about that, but that's alright. I had no reason to expect any real ideas from you.
There's a decent argument to be made that North Korea would be more like China if we hadn't invaded. That is another example of a decision made by people who thought they knew how to "fix" a political movement that threatened their interests by responding with extreme violence. The Korean war was fairly successful, especially compared to our similar invasions of Southeast Asia, half of Central and South America, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Haiti, and the dozen other nations we've destroyed with our ignorance.
Keep cheering on the death and destruction and pretend it's for freedom. You're doing exactly what your owners expect you to do, and they didn't even have to ask for your fealty: you freely gave it to them, no questions asked. All they had to do is say some nice sounding words, and you handed over your pocketbook and your children's future without even thinking about it. Wave the flag. Close your eyes. Remember: you're a real American.
Maybe that's where you're losing touch with what is actually happening...
"OWS protests was..."
1) They aren't protests. Ugly, random, and unwieldy as things may seem; It is a movement.
2) Past-tense is too soon; It's far from over.
3) Banana Phone is popular children's song written and performed by the artist Raffi (http://raffi.ytmnd.com/).
4) My Tin foil hat is smaller, paler, and less-often-used than your is.
5) tl;dr/tl;dw
where is sue? sue is idle.
The sad and frankly seriously fucking scary part? Follow the money, think about THIS question: What do these countries such as Iraq and Libya have in common? Not terrorism as Iraq had told most of them to go fuck themselves (As Saddam had too much on his plate with Iran to want to get involved and old MoMo had been throwing Al Qaeda in prison which just FYI but no less than THREE of the guys on the new Libyan ruling council are Al Qaeda) and its not religion as Iraq was controlled by Baathist and MoMo was more communist than anything so what is the connection between them and Iran and Syria?
The Federal Reserve and the Petrodollar, that's what. As I said the "rebels' rushed to make a central bank and quickly cut deals with the fed, Saddam had threatened to go to the Euro, and did you know that nearly two thirds of the petrodollars countries like Saudi Arabia trade for their oil ends up deposited in the federal reserve bank of NYC? And of course moMo had threatened to only accept gold for his oil as he feared the currency crisis, then suddenly he has an "Arab spring" moment, only its Al Qaeda and Qatar soldiers as the 'poor freedom fighters" backed up by billions in weapons from NATO.
I used to laugh at the whole "bankster" thing but frankly after paying attention to what has been going the last few years honestly i think that is EXACTLY what is happening, the banks are acting like the mob and anybody that threatens their operations get stomped on. on the one hand you have AIPAC throwing enough money into the ring that BOTH the dem AND rep POTUS candidate went to go kiss the ring at AIPAC before their campaigns, you have the fed making money hand over fist both on the petrodollars going out and then AGAIN on those same petrodollars when they come back, and then finally you have groups like Halliburton and Goldman Sachs tied into both AIPAC and the fed along with pretty much all major positions in the US gov making sure things run smoothly.
Frankly i don't blame iran for wanting the bomb, if I was them I'd be hustling like mad to get one just to save my own ass. it has been made VERY clear these last 20 or so years that if you fuck with the money flow, especially petro and narco dollars you ARE gonna get stomped on. there are too many of the 1% making frankly insane amounts of money off of these ops to let any third world country do anything to mess with the flow. look at which countries are left alone, what do they have in common? The bomb. its the only thing that lets you stand up to the banksters and money men anymore without getting squashed like a bug. if iran doesn't get the bomb they better kiss the ring and jump through the banksters hoops otherwise I smell 'regime change' in their future. Scary as hell that so few can kill so many just to maintain their profits.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Interesting that you should ask that. The French helped Americans win the revolution and thus gained independence. Are you saying America should still have belonged to the British? Lets assume for a moment America has another Civil War or the entire nation is over run by "Nation-X". Yes, quite possible many Americans would welcome Chinese involvement irregardless of their motives for the greater good. I personally wouldn't trust them, but never say never.
Life is not for the lazy.
How about you don't lump us all together as imperialist, culture-bound yahoos?
Abandon the idea of democracy and stop promoting it, and we will. As long as you insist that your country's government is controlled by its people and represents them, you are all responsible for its actions. If you will treated your government and businesses as oppressors, few would blame you.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
pursuit of happiness.
Not a right.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
Then why don't Americans go through Universal Declaration of Human Rights and demand their government to implement all that are not protected in US?
Even in the way how rights are proclaimed, the set of "human rights" is specific to a country, there is no universally accepted set, and the closest thing to one (the above mentioned Declaration) is almost completely at odds with US Constitution's Bill of Rights. In practice, the only time US mentions "human rights violations" abroad, it's a code phrase for "does not bend to the will of US government and businesses".
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
All US-friendly, and all approved by US corporation that provides the channel.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
Given the current pigheadedness of the public convincing is quite a tall order.
US population is probably the most docile in the world. For most of the population, the only difference is, which particular subset of corporate rulers they happen to obey.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
Most Americans know
How?
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
1 - The US is "everything that's wrong with the world". Really? If the US dissapeared tomorrow, just what do you think would happen to the world? Honestly. Do you think the world would suddenly live in peace and harmony?
No. It would however have no poverty and much less war.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
Protecting its profit?
More like protecting future exclusive use of dollar as international currency. Can't do that without a continuing trade relationships with survivors of the war.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
lol
(to clarify -- I am Russian).
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
will treated
s/will //
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
We caused the Nazis by joining WWI on the side of the English. So we wouldn't have had to allow and moderate the Nazis if we had just gone the other way. I had always wondered what the world would have turned out like if WWI had the US joining with the Germans.
Learn to love Alaska
Start with they pushed the Nazis into power and created the axis powers through insane reparations after WWI which they entered on the wrong side. If they had stayed out of WWI or gone in on the German side, then we wouldn't even have Israel and all the fallout from that in the middle east. The USA caused all this by backing the wrong side in WWI or not following through with the League of Nations (more an EU world government than a neutered UN, so it would have been more involved and able to fix the broken mess at the end of WWI.
Learn to love Alaska
Of course it does and quite obviously the majority of the Republicans are not conservatives but lying exploiters pretending to be religious conservatives. The reality is obvious, the Republican Primaries have been more corrupted by corporate influence then the Democrat primaries. There are of course a minority of Republican representatives who are in fact conservative and do attempt to represent their electorate but they are a minority.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
I'm not saying its great, but Myanmar its not.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
[Possibly justified anti-USA rant ...]
Yes but... how do you REALLY feel?
I feel that we really can use more of the cheap oil.
And, the US is looking quite a bit schizo/psycho lately. State Dept. decries net censorship, at the same time House and Senate are trying to pass the same thing (PIPA/SOPA).
Meanwhile, Israel is pretty much openly attacking Iran, *nobody* likes it that *anybody* has nukes (and especially not Israel, Pakistan, India, and Iran).
And all the US wants is cheap oil for SUVs and Hummers (and unrefined bitumen shipped from the other side of its own continent for same).
Meanwhile, your elected reps are in the pocket of the Hollywood MafiAA, and you still haven't put the "Banksters" in jail. In fact, they're migrating into govt or MafiAA golden parachutes.
It's a little disconcerting, looking on at all this !@#$ you let happen these days. At this point, aren't you supposed to be tossing tea into Boston harbour or something?
Oh, was that advocating revolution or something?
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit