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Time's Person of the Year Is "The Protester"

Hugh Pickens writes "Time's editor Rick Stengel announced on The Today Show that 'The Protester' is Time Magazine's Person of the Year: From the Arab Spring to Athens, from Occupy Wall Street to Moscow. 'For capturing and highlighting a global sense of restless promise, for upending governments and conventional wisdom, for combining the oldest of techniques with the newest of technologies to shine a light on human dignity and, finally, for steering the planet on a more democratic though sometimes more dangerous path for the 21st century.' The initial gut reaction on Twitter seems to be one of derision, as Time has gone with a faceless human mass instead of picking a single person like Tunisian fruit vendor Mohamed Bouazizi who Time mentions in the story and is widely acknowledged as the person who set off the 'Arab Spring.' In 2006, Time chose "You" with a mirrored cover to much disappointment, picked the personal computer as 'Machine of the Year' and Earth as 'Planet of the Year,' proving 'that it should probably just be "Story of the Year" if they aren't going to acknowledge an actual person,' writes Dashiell Bennett. 'By not picking any one individual, they've basically chosen no one.'"

543 comments

  1. I am the 1% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Who make first post

    1. Re:I am the 1% by MyLongNickName · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I, for one, found this first post hilarious. An on-topic first post is a rarity and should be rewarded. When you think about it, first posts do represent roughly 1% (give or take) of all posts and this tied in well with the topic. I gave extra points for brevity as it is the soul of wit.

      --
      See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
    2. Re:I am the 1% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      tl;dr

    3. Re:I am the 1% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DRINK YO PRUNE JUICE

    4. Re:I am the 1% by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1, Funny

      Occupy Slashdot!

    5. Re:I am the 1% by drpimp · · Score: 2

      Which is easy to do as your are occupying your grandma's basement

      --
      -- Brought to you by Carl's JR
    6. Re:I am the 1% by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 3, Funny

      I resent your sexist accusations. This basement is my grandpa's.

    7. Re:I am the 1% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I, for one, found this first post hilarious.

      No you didn't. You just replied to it so you could be attached to the highest post on the page above +1

    8. Re:I am the 1% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was -1 when I replied to it. Try again.

    9. Re:I am the 1% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In babushka's basement, Slashdot occupies you!

    10. Re:I am the 1% by crossmr · · Score: 1

      When you think about it, first posts do represent roughly 1% (give or take) of all posts

      Maybe when you think about it..
      The last 10 stories with comments contain approximately 1766 posts, or around 177 posts per story. I don't know how you do math, but in that scenario, 1 != 1%
      Many stories frequently get 300-500+ posts. First posts aren't anywhere close to 1% on slashdot.

    11. Re:I am the 1% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try the middle of the night or weekends. Your sampling is anything but random.

    12. Re:I am the 1% by ArcherB · · Score: 1

      When you think about it, first posts do represent roughly 1% (give or take) of all posts

      Maybe when you think about it..
      The last 10 stories with comments contain approximately 1766 posts, or around 177 posts per story. I don't know how you do math, but in that scenario, 1 != 1%
      Many stories frequently get 300-500+ posts. First posts aren't anywhere close to 1% on slashdot.

      Yes, but keep in mind that there is not just one comment per story that claims to be first post. Of course, there can be only one, but many will try.

      --
      There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
    13. Re:I am the 1% by crossmr · · Score: 1

      Claiming to be a first post and actually being a first post are not the same thing, nor relevant. The claim made was that first posts were roughly 1%, they clearly aren't.

    14. Re:I am the 1% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well done sir, well done

    15. Re:I am the 1% by crossmr · · Score: 1

      It doesn't need to be. Post counts are not a snapshot thing. They stay there. There are far more stories and activity posted on the weekdays, which are 5/7s of the week, so why would I take a sample from a known dead time that is less representative of the overall week and amount of stories being posted?

      Using current stories from today (going back to the day split, 20 stories)
      there are nearly 4000 posts, an average of 195 posts per story
      The high volume of 5 days would more then compensate for the dead time of the weekend. Not to mention less stories are posted on the weekend any way.

  2. What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Or are not all protesters created equal?

    1. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by zill · · Score: 3, Informative

      All of the tea party protests were back in 2009 and 2010.

    2. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Moheeheeko · · Score: 1
      Person of the Year

      That wasnt in 2011. Nice try though.

    3. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by RicardoGCE · · Score: 0, Troll

      The Tea Party has been co-opted into Fox News' astroturfing arm.

    4. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by shadowrat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I would assume Tea Partiers are protesters and thus included in Time's lame cop-out. There are definitely some cases where it appears the tea party was treated like second class protesters, but i don't think this slashdot summary is one of them.

    5. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by lambent · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      The Tea Party isn't actually protesting anything. They seem to be desperately trying to cling to the status quo in which they've found themselves to be so comfortable.

      "Health care for me, not for anyone else"

      "No new taxes ... for me"

      etc, etc.

      See the difference? They're trying to preserve their own position, not trying to actively change things. So, no, they're not protestors.

    6. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about the Tea Party movement? They weren't big protesters this year. People/press have been drawing similarities between OWS and Tea Party, and they're even mentioning things that OWS should do to mimic the Tea Party movement. The Tea Party is being recognized, so don't feel left out.

    7. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Funny

      They definitely seem to have been cruelly ignored by the riot police of America...

    8. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by gorzek · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This selection was more for the Arab Spring protests than the Occupy protests. I think it's a sensible choice.

    9. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Capt+James+McCarthy · · Score: 1

      Depends on who writes the article.

      --
      There are no loopholes. It's either legal or it's not.
    10. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Millennium · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't see what's so "not-protest" about opposing what another entity has expressly stated a desire to do. Consider SOPA, for example: it has not actually been enacted, but some elements are actively trying to do so, and people protest against that. What makes the Tea Party different, other than that you disagree with a caricature of their position that you have projected onto them?

    11. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Nimey · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      They're talking about /protestors/, not astroturf.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    12. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but Time never mentioned them in those years.

    13. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by 14erCleaner · · Score: 5, Funny

      Funny, this is exactly the type of pompous pinhead slashdot response I was expecting to see.

      Nice, a self-referential response.

      --
      Have you read my blog lately?
    14. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny, this is exactly the type of pompous pinhead slashdot response I was expecting to see.

      Nice, a self-referential response.

      OH yeah?!?! Well, same to you!!!

    15. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, because a bunch of privileged idiots whining about paying tax because they're all right and are fine with poor people having no healthcare is exactly the same as a genuinely oppressed mass of people across a large global region taking up arms to overthrow their dictatorships.

      The tea party is an astroturf movement, not a protest. You might as well say "What about the protests that some people prefer Pepsi to Coke?".

    16. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by jd · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Not really. There's a distinction between rational protesting for and irrational protesting against. 2011 has seen a lot of rational, constructive protesting. The Tea Party was all about irrational, destructive rabble-rousing.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    17. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well, that is a pretty biased and inaccurate portrayal of the T par T. They were protesting large government and government excess. They managed to elect a number of people who have done their best to lower spending and avoid taxes, with moderate levels of success. They wanted to throw a spanner in the works of the bloated government in a visible way.

      I say it was a partially successful protest, given their stated goals.

      Your error was that you interpreted their goals, and phrased your opinion of their goals in a way that makes them look bad. In much the same way that the anti-occupy crowd calls the occupiers socialist extremists.

    18. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by jd · · Score: 0

      Unlikely. Those Tea Partiers who post here as ACs look at the words but don't actually SEE anything at all, and "expecting" requires the notion of a hypothesis and prediction -- a methodology that flies firmly in the face of all that the Tea Party stands for.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    19. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by fredrated · · Score: 1

      Deluded much?

    20. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by jd · · Score: 1

      Funny, I thought America was ranking outside the top 10 nations on every metric going (happiness, health, prosperity, employment, lack of corruption, education, etc) -- well, with the exception of ego. America is joint first with France, Germany and several third-world dictators on Ego.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    21. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by JustinKSU · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Or are not all protesters created equal?

      No. We are not created equal. We do however deserve equal rights. Some would even argue equal opportunity.

    22. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      False. They had plenty of coverage.

    23. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by drnb · · Score: 0

      They definitely seem to have been cruelly ignored by the riot police of America...

      That's what happens when you show up, wave signs, yell and shout, give speeches ... and go home when the park closes.

    24. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by forkfail · · Score: 0, Troll

      No, they're not.

      A protest that needs Fox New's Glenn Beck to organize and the Koch brothers to fund in order to get off the ground really isn't the same as a bunch of folks getting so upset about the status quo that they take to the streets.

      See also, astroturfing vs grassroots.

      --
      Check your premises.
    25. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by DigiShaman · · Score: 0, Troll

      Because TIME is liberal hippie magazine as far as mainstream publications go. I can site plenty of examples from Global Warming to Obama. No other US president can claim that much front cover status. Not a single one!

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    26. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      That's what happens when you show up, wave signs, yell and shout, give speeches ... and go home when the park closes. ...leaving it cleaner than when you arrived.

    27. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      oh - so you are protesting happiness. poor baby.

      well, telling you to fuck off makes me happy so our ranking just went up a notch. so fuck off

    28. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hypothesis: you are a jerk
      Prediction: you will have posted on Slashdot with a hackneyed "the right hates science" one-off flame, void of actual content.

    29. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by MetalliQaZ · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Your post was one of the dumbest things I've read on Slashdot in a while. This is the single worst (best?) example of stupid guns-fix-everything arguments I have ever heard.

      In this case, instead of claiming that arming everyone would prevent people from being victims of crime, you actually claim that they would prevent police (paramilitary force as of 2011) from abusing people? When it comes to cops, bringing guns into the mixture only serves to guarantee that they will use lethal force without hesitation.

      Tea Party protests avoided police intervention because their cause aligns with the interests of the powerful. Period.

      --
      "Here Lies Philip J. Fry, named for his uncle, to carry on his spirit"
    30. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Bardwick · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Did you typo that? Seems completely backwards. One group is for smaller, less intrusive government, period. Another group want someone else to pay thier student loans, free healthcare, not willing to start at the bottom and work thier way up. Generally want somone else to support them. Probably recieved "participation trophies" at sporting events where scores are not recorded. One group booked/paid for venues. They actually applied for, and recieved permits. The areas they used were cleaned and maintained aftewards. The other group had rapes, death toll, clashes will police officers, hundreds, perhaps thousand of arrest. Significant drug usage, seriously dangerous sanitary conditions, outbreaks of disease and illegally occupying private property (including bolt cutting thier way into houses/churches/parkinglots and disrupting business. Causing several million dollars in damage and police overtime. All that time asking for corperate sponsership. Notice I didnt say which group was which.. I'll let you folks decide. Can help me out though, you said destructive.. Can't remember, which group was throwing malatov cocktails at police?

    31. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by AdamJS · · Score: 0

      Don't forget George SOROS and Fartbama Obongo and whatever other insane delusional justifications and allegiances you need to make sense of anything non-regressive.

    32. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by gorzek · · Score: 1

      Well, that's kinda the whole point of conservatism, isn't it? Keep stuff the way it is, or roll it back to how it "used to be." Except people's ideas of how things used to be tend not to have much relation to actual history.

    33. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by AdamJS · · Score: 1

      Of course, not being a thorn in the side of people "Who Own You And You Should Shut Up And Take It, Stupid Unworthy Prole" was also a good benefit.

    34. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Note where the Occupy protests occurred. The vast majority occurred in "may-issue" states or "no-issue" counties in large "may-issue" states whereas the vast majority of Tea Party protests occurred in "shall-issue" states.

      Rationalism views government as one's provider whereas irrationalism views oneself as one's provider. Typical suck-up to filthy smelly beardrd Marxist college professors and/or the price one pays for having plaques on the walls.

      ==//==

    35. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by chrissandvick · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      You're joking right? How about you compare the crime blotters for the two movements. How batcrap crazy do you have to be to see the nihilistic occupiers who violated individual rights, living in filth, committing murder, robbery, rape, assault and call that rational and constructive?

    36. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by lgw · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Does anyone still subscribe to Time? I thought it had become another vanity publishing rag like Newsweek, with a few thousand copies made each month just for the ego of the publishers and the few doctors offices who hadn't bothered to cancel their subscriptions.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    37. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by whargoul · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Sigh...and me without my mod points to mod you up...

      +1 Spot On

    38. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Tea Party protests avoided police intervention because their cause aligns with the interests of the powerful. Period.

      Oh. I thought it was because Tea Party demonstrations occurred at targeted locations (such as town halls attended by politicians), and after the message was delivered, they cleaned up and went home.

      I'm sure law enforcement's reaction to OWS has nothing to do with the fact that they have soiled public gathering places for weeks on end, obstructed the daily business of normal working stiffs like me, and have finally worn out the welcome of even the most liberal mayors.

      The Tea Party changed the face of Congress by making themselves heard in the proper context, and by voting. What is OWS's desired outcome, and how do they expect to achieve it by camping in parks for weeks on end and irritating the 99% by obstructing traffic?

      Please don't let facts get in the way of your culture of victimhood.

    39. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      One group is for smaller, less intrusive government, period.

      And against same-sex marriage. And disbelieving of Obama's US citizenship, despite proof. Oh, and highly approving of the Patriot Act.

      Also completely invisible during the biggest expansion of government in modern times.

      Fucking ninjas.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    40. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Nimey · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's *interesting* that people I know who sympathize with teabaggers think that OWS protesters should quit whining and accept what they've got.

      No, wait, that's self-serving hypocrisy.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    41. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by drnb · · Score: 2

      Of course, not being a thorn in the side of people "Who Own You And You Should Shut Up And Take It, Stupid Unworthy Prole" was also a good benefit.

      Apparently you haven't been paying attention. The Tea Party has been quite the thorn in the political establishment. The Tea Party merely chooses to voice their opinions by voting rather than collecting their poo in jars to throw at the police.

    42. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Dishevel · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      How batcrap crazy do you have to be to see the nihilistic occupiers who violated individual rights, living in filth, committing murder, robbery, rape, assault and call that rational and constructive?

      You just say it over and over again many times.
      Then you have your buddies in the press repeat it a few hundred more times.
      After all that it just sort of becomes truth.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    43. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Nimey · · Score: 2, Insightful

      OWS has to do these things to get attention because (unlike the teabaggers) they're not a creation of Fox News and the commentariat, so they don't have built-in hype.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    44. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Nimey · · Score: 1

      ...and driving down the tone of political discourse everywhere they show up. And by bringing assault rifles to public political gatherings.

      Apparently you mostly pay attention to Fox News.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    45. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, then the 1% of this country should be happy with what the 1% are making in, say, Somalia? After all, it goes both ways.

    46. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by polar+red · · Score: 2

      The tea-party is a very small US-only thing. the OWS is international.

      --
      Yes, I'm left. You have a problem with that?
    47. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Tea Party isn't actually protesting anything. They seem to be desperately trying to cling to the status quo in which they've found themselves to be so comfortable.

      Doesn't really matter what their beef is or what they want. All politics is self-interest. The point is that they worked within the system to make themselves heard loud and clear, and now they have a majority in the House of Representatives standing up for their demands.

      It can work the same way for "OWS", if they were willing to confront their elected leaders in civic forums and speak up, and follow up by voting for candidates who "get it". Camping in parks and blocking traffic may get you news coverage, but it will accomplish exactly nothing in the long run except to turn against you the very people who should identify with you.

    48. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by toadlife · · Score: 2

      They were protesting large government and government excess.

      The problem is that, if you look at the actual facts, the entire tea party platform is exposed as a one that is based on pure fantasy.

      Our government spending as a size of GDP is not appreciably bigger than it ever has been and taxes as a percentage of GDP are at all time *lows*. Another fun fact that explodes the heads of tea partiers: The federal deficit for Obama's first budget (FY2010) and the projected deficit for his second budget (FY2011) were/are LOWER than the deficit under Bush's last budget.

      --
      I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
    49. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, yes, a 200 pound sack of shit taking itself out of the park was much of an improvement.

      However the actual waste left behind...was not substantially less than what would be expected from any such group, unless you believe the inflated estimates given by the so-called observers whose neutral representations left a lot of actual fact out of it.

    50. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Dishevel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As a person who actually believes in personal responsibility and in the power of small communities of people working together, and as a person who has attended tea party rallies. I for one believe that there would not be many in the tea party that would want to be grouped with OWS or those people in Greece.

      A bunch of spoiled people demanding more free shit is the antitheses of what the tea party is about.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    51. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately this accurate description of conservatism lends itself to straw-man arguments. What I mean is, if you am conservative and want certain things to stay the same, I can easily choose any number of historical "bad things" that are associated with your positions and claim that they are your true goals. Then you have to waste time clarifying your position while I sit by, preparing another straw-man. So, if you think unions have too much power, I say that you want IR style child labor. If you want to lower spending/taxes, I ask you how you'll get to work without roads to drive on. You said "people's ideas of how things used to be tend not to have much relation to actual history" in reference to conservatives, but this can be said of progressives as well. If conservatives are guilty of resisting "change for the better", then progressives are equally guilty of enabling "change for the worse".

    52. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by chrissandvick · · Score: 1, Troll

      ...and driving down the tone of political discourse everywhere they show up. And by bringing assault rifles to public political gatherings.

      Apparently you mostly pay attention to Fox News.

      You mean like the Neo-Nazi's who showed up to give their support for Occupy Phoenix?

      http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/10/unreal-neo-nazis-patrol-occupy-phonix-with-ar-15s-media-silent/

      Apparently, you don't read enough news sources outside your narrow, bigoted interests.

    53. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by fsckmnky · · Score: 1

      +1 - Thank you for speaking the truth, even if it isn't popular.

    54. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by BlueStrat · · Score: 1, Informative

      Not really. There's a distinction between rational protesting for and irrational protesting against. 2011 has seen a lot of rational, constructive protesting. The Tea Party was all about irrational, destructive rabble-rousing.

      OWS: We want the "rich" (anyone who makes more than we do) to pay more taxes so the government can give us free stuff! Only evil people are rich (except for the rich politicians and other rich political players on *our* side...that's *different*!)! And if we don't get what we demand despite being a voting minority, we'll use violence (*this* is what democracy looks like!!!1!!one) to achieve our goals.

      TEA Party: We want government to stop taxing us so much and wasting so much of the taxes they take from us, and to actually start obeying the laws and the limitations on government power that's in the Constitution.

      You were saying something about irrationality and destructive rabble-rousing? I must have missed the TEA Party riots, arrests, violence & assaults, drug dealing/use, rapes, property destruction, and the massive clean-ups needed like that which occur/occurred at OWS protests.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    55. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by drnb · · Score: 4, Informative

      ...and driving down the tone of political discourse everywhere they show up. And by bringing assault rifles to public political gatherings. Apparently you mostly pay attention to Fox News.

      Hardly. I sometimes watch both MSNBC and Fox to be amused by both extremes.

      The fact that a rifle was present at a gathering and no police were needed strengthens the idea that everyone conducted themselves in a lawful manner. Somehow I don't think that was the message you were hoping to convey, but it is none the less.

    56. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by gl4ss · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They definitely seem to have been cruelly ignored by the riot police of America...

      That's what happens when you show up, wave signs, yell and shout, give speeches ... and go home when the park closes.

      that's not a protest, that's a gay rights celebration party.

      tea partiers drive their suv's home. the egypt, tunisia etc protesters didn't - they stayed until something happened.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    57. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by SteelAngel · · Score: 1

      Throwing poo at police isn't driving down the tone of political discourse, but expressing conservative constitutional principles is?

      I think I'll just curl up and hide now.

    58. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Dishevel · · Score: 2

      Rush Limbaugh is no friend of the tea party.
      I am sure he would like to be but truth be told Rush is all about helping the Republicans and taking down the Democrats.
      Tea party is about a smaller, less intrusive government.
      Republicans and Democrats both fear a smaller government.

      You show me a Democrat that wants a smaller government running against a Republican that wants to enact SOPA or keep voting up the patriot act, and you will see me vote for a Democrat.

      I know that you think that the tea party is some sort of republican astro turf fake crap. If you look in to it though you will find that a great many of those in the have no love for either party.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    59. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hmm. being against the "1%" is rational ?

      you contrast that against a group that opposed higher taxes, "stimulus" handouts to democrat bundlers and further encroachment of our civil liberties and call that irrational ?

      you fucking moron.

    60. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Nimey · · Score: 1

      Apparently, you don't read enough news sources outside your narrow, bigoted interests.

      Thanks for illustrating my point, and also for linking to that site; the commenters prove my point as well.

      I doubt you'll see it, though. Seems like conservatives constitutionally love that sort of name-calling; fits in with the politics-as-a-team-sport motif.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    61. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by crow_t_robot · · Score: 2

      What is so bad about George Soros again? He has done more than any other single person to help topple caustic communist regimes in the 20th century.

      http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-november-18-2010/george-soros-plans-to-overthrow-america This guy?

    62. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by ShavedOrangutan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think you're just lumping all the right wing concepts into one pot and calling it the Tea Party. It would be like calling all democrats homosexuals. Also, a true conservative republican wouldn't approve at all of the Patriot Act, for exactly the same reason they oppose Obamacare.

      --
      Godaddy is a scam and a ripoff.
    63. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Nimey · · Score: 1

      Nicely dancing around my point, but -1 for being too obvious about it. As I suspect you're aware but ignoring, I'm talking about the constant drizzle of namecalling and screaming. Look at the commenters in chrissandvick's link above for what I mean.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    64. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by HeckRuler · · Score: 2

      The religious right hates science. As long as science is primarily secular, the religious right will probably be against it.

      The conservative right hates science mostly due to demographics. Rural locations trend towards conservative, urban locations trend towards progressive. Is it too big of a leap to say that scientific advancement is progressive? Universities especially trend away from conservatism.

      The right doesn't fundamentally hate science. But as long as they tie themselves to religion and conservatism, a subset of them are going to hate science. To outsiders looking to smear their opponents, they are going to lump you with the anti-science groups, despite many members being pro-science, scientists, and perfectly forward thinking individuals, and label you as hating science.

      Then again, since you ARE standing arm-in-arm with the religious right and empower them as much as they empower you, you ARE enabling their sentiment.

    65. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It appears that you just said "smaller, more restrained government is a fantasy". I do not believe you.

      Here's a quote from a random NPR article about the deficit:
      "Bush's record on deficit spending was not good at all: During his presidency, the national debt rose by an average of $607 billion a year. How does that compare to Obama? During Obama's presidency to date, the national debt has risen by an average of $1.723 trillion a year — or by a jaw-dropping $1.116 trillion more, per year, than it rose even under Bush."
      http://www.npr.org/2011/01/25/133211508/the-weekly-standard-obama-vs-bush-on-debt

      I guess this article is a lie? Or your numbers might be off - you should double ch...oh wait you didn't supply any numbers...

    66. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by mcgrew · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Or are not all protesters created equal?

      No. Occupy and the foreign protests were grassroots movements, the tea party was astroturf. Taxes are lower than any time since Truman, and nobody squealed about the deficit until "spend like a drunken sailor" Bush was out of office. The rich Republicans got their idiot redneck followers to join; anybody with a 3 digit IQ can see it.

      The Tea Party is a fake movement that's for the very people the Occupy movement is against, and it managed to fool the stupider of the 99% to lobby for things that harm themselves.

      If you're a tea partier earning less than $300k per year, you're an idiot.

    67. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please read my comment again.
      Listen carefully for the "Whoosh" sound.

    68. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Nimey · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think you're just lumping all the right wing concepts into one pot and calling it the Tea Party

      While it's true that the TP organizers emphasize that they're all about /fiscal/ conservatism, if you'll look at who makes up the movement and who said movement has collectively elected to represent them, it's pretty socially conservative as well, and hawkish, i.e. conservative Republicans.

      a true conservative republican wouldn't approve at all of the Patriot Act

      No true Scotsman.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    69. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Nimey · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They want to shrink the government down far enough to fit into your bedroom.

      Ask a teabagger what they'd like the government to do, and they want it smaller. But only where it suits them; some want big military, others big morality, others to get big unelected and unaccountable (except by the Free Market (pbui)) business. Nobody except for the hardcore Paulites truly want small government, and they're frankly nuts.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    70. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As others pointed out, TP isn't 2011.

      Another facet is that Tea Party lost; they weren't able to get any small-government parties onto ballots (or if they did, I never heard of it, and I am definitely sure it didn't happen in my state). In the end, all they accomplished was to slightly sway the balance between the two Fuck-The-People parties. Tea Party wasn't able to follow through before everyone connected with them resigned in despair, completely without enthusiasm or the tiniest bit of energy left to expend on activism.

      This year's US protesters are probably going to fail in a similar manner (I have not yet heard of them putting forth candidates, either) but it'll be a year before we all get to mock them with the same level of absolute impunity. Until they prove themselves inept like TP, we can all (both left and right) hope they'll have some influence in rolling back the corruption of our process. Maybe it's an empty hope, but it's pretty much all America has right now.

      If TP wants to try to make a comeback, that'd be awesome. They need to hurry, though.

      That's all America-centric, BTW. When you look at the bigger picture of "The Protester" (e.g. Egypt!) both OWS and TP are pretty much not worth mentioning. America isn't really protesting yet. We could learn a lot about democracy from the Arabic countries, and yeah, that's kind of disgraceful.

    71. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Nimey · · Score: 1

      That doesn't matter. What matters is that you can have your followers point to one person and say HIS FAULT. See also: Goldstein, Nancy Pelosi, et al.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    72. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by chrissandvick · · Score: 1

      While it's true that the TP organizers emphasize that they're all about /fiscal/ conservatism, if you'll look at who makes up the movement and who said movement has collectively elected to represent them, it's pretty socially conservative as well, and hawkish, i.e. conservative Republicans.

      Fallacy of Composition Nimey.

    73. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by FunkSoulBrother · · Score: 0

      ...I sometimes watch both MSNBC and Fox to be amused by both extremes.

      MSNBC and Fox are not somehow equivalent extremes. They represent the corporate crazy right and the corporate center-right.

    74. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by ae1294 · · Score: 1

      Does anyone still subscribe to Time? I thought it had become another vanity publishing rag like Newsweek, with a few thousand copies made each month just for the ego of the publishers and the few doctors offices who hadn't bothered to cancel their subscriptions.

      Doctor offices.

    75. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Nimey · · Score: 1

      Wrong. It's called "resultant set of policies".

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    76. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a nice ... slant, but the tea party is misleading at best. "Quit taxing us so much!" ... in a time when the top tax rates are lower than ever. As for rabble-rousing and destructiveness, of course you didn't see anything like that for the Tea Party. The media coverage is incredibly slanted...

    77. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by chrissandvick · · Score: 1

      Sorry, do you think multiple readings increase or decrease the possible interpretations of you post? If I misread you clarify please.

    78. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Also, a true conservative republican wouldn't approve at all of the Patriot Act

      I invite you to leave your house and go talk to some of them. You might be surprised.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    79. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Nimey · · Score: 1

      You're not /quite/ right, but you illustrate the point that people with extreme attitudes will turn around and say "but these people are extremists too, just in the opposite way!" as if that excuses them from thinking, because clearly the answer is /always/ somewhere in the middle.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    80. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by mcgrew · · Score: 0

      Please tell me why "conservatives" can seldom use a homophone properly? The lack of basic literacy skills says a lot about why the tea party, Rush Limbaugh, and Newt Gingrich are popular.

    81. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by joocemann · · Score: 1

      If you took the sizes of protests of TP and OWS protests, and the demographics of the protestors, and reconstituted them in public places, but removing the actual protest oriented component of the assembly, I would bet you hard money that there would be hardly a measure of difference between the assemblies.

      By that I mean getting 2k old people (since the young informed libertarians quit caring about the TP when the GOP co-opted it after Ron Paul 2008) either for TP, or just because there are free brownies, would have similar results. And 10k middle and young aged people, either for OWS, or just there for the free brownies, would also have similar results.

      Thus, the problems you're going off about have nothing to do with the protests or movements, but rather the size and demographics of the assemblies.

    82. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by BlueStrat · · Score: 0

      OWS has to do these things to get attention because (unlike the teabaggers) they're not anywhere near a large enough block of voters to achieve their goals through the democratic voting process and must resort to rioting, violence, and intimidation to achieve their goals over the will of the majority just as every gang, despot, or warlord does.

      FTFY

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    83. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by chrissandvick · · Score: 2, Insightful

      OWS has to do these things to get attention because (unlike the teabaggers) they're not a creation of Fox News and the commentariat, so they don't have built-in hype.

      Ahh... "teabaggers". And you're complaining about name calling. You fucking hypocrite.

    84. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They managed to elect a number of people who have done their best to lower spending and avoid taxes, with moderate levels of success. They wanted to throw a spanner in the works of the bloated government in a visible way.

      I say it was a partially successful protest, given their stated goals.

      Cite your sources? I am wholeheartedly in agreement with lower taxes AND smaller government, but in the wake of the "tea party takeover" of 2010 taxes have been flat and have threatened to go up several times, at the same time as the government spending is only decreasing because overseas involvement is shrinking... If that is "success" then what the Tea party achieved was the pinnacle of status quo politics.

    85. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by drpimp · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Tea Party wasn't relevant enough this year. The protesters for Occupy and Arab Spring (albeit different movements during 2011) were also encompassing for the term "Protester". So if the Tea Party would have made more noise this year I am sure they would have been recognized as well.

      --
      -- Brought to you by Carl's JR
    86. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by joocemann · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No. The Tea Party was co-opted by GOP schticks, then funded, then majority-swamped by GOP supporters.

      The Tea Party that I was part of, the one about Ron Paul in 2007/2008, is long gone.

      The white knight you're defending is on meth, with a habit supported by big corporations. You will notice that Ron Paul gets no corporate backing, but the novo-TP (GOP 2.0) members get tons. Wake the fuck up.

    87. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Nimey · · Score: 1

      This? This is vanilla ice cream compared to that stuff I /am/ complaining about.

      Don't play the victim card, chum.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    88. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Nimey · · Score: 1

      Hey, nice name calling. Also, I reject your assertion about the will of the majority.

      If you had an argument, I'm confident you'd have used that instead of going for ad homs, so I'm going to feel free to ignore you now.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    89. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Nimey · · Score: 1

      Technically it wasn't the Tea Party back then, you lot were just Ron Paul supporters. Tea Party proper didn't get set up until around the time Obama was elected, which was of course convenient for obvious reasons.

      I was there, having voted for Paul in my state's primary.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    90. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by ChromeAeonium · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Haven't seen them complaining about prohibition either. You'd think that the government spending billions telling people what they can and can't grow and consume in their own homes and jailing those who get caught doing it anyway would be seen as a pretty big violation of government overstepping its bounds (especially given that it would put a few of the founders in a federal prison, but sometimes I think they are more into idealized characters of the founders then historical accuracy anyway), but I haven't heard anything about them protesting that one. Small government is not something they care about. They want their government. I think the most damning piece about them is, as you pointed out, that they suddenly appeared once Obama won. I heard nothing from the right about small government until then, but suddenly once the little R after the president's name changed to a D, then they were all about the concept of limited government....but claimed it was for totally non-partisan reasons, natch. Although it remains to be seen (and I'll certainty change my opinion of them if proven wrong), I suspect the majority of the calls for limiting government from the right will stop the moment the little D after the president's name changes to an R, and I highly doubt much else, like what that president actually does, will affect that. You'd think if they really were for small government they'd be for better or worse supporting Ron Paul, but they're not. That says something, namely that real small government would cut the parts of big government they like.

      I don't see how the concept means much anyway. I don't care if the government is big or small, I care about the results it gets. For some things, sure, there's too much government, for others, maybe there should be more. Some programs and regulations are excessive, others are necessary. Seems like the 'small government' thing, whatever merit is sometimes has and sometimes doesn't, is more of an easily digested talking point than anything meaningful.

    91. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by jd · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The difference between you and me is that I come from a family where the right-wingers who have held office have always had left-wingers exclusively as advisers and where the left-wingers who have held office have always had right-wingers exclusively as advisers. In short, I come from a family where it is NOT the political wing you are on that matters but the message you deliver.

      I hold to that value as an absolute. I also hold that the Tea Party is completely incapable of comprehending such a stance, that it is so obsessed with the "purity" of its ideology that it cannot comprehend the fact that there IS no constructive ideology. An ideology, in and of itself, will ALWAYS be destructive. You CANNOT construct through deconstruction. The ONLY way to construct is to build, and the only way to build is to disavow purity and blend to perfection.

      THAT is why the Wall Street protests are constructive and THAT is why the Tea Party is destructive. The former blends, the latter splits.

      To call me a liar is to demonstrate your ignorance of the definition of the word, for a start, but it is to also demonstrate that you are ignorant of the history of what works and what doesn't. I know that history well and in detail far beyond the understanding of the Palins of the world.

      To call me a karma whore is to be ignorant of my own posting history. I post what I say, frequently with vicious - and incredibly naive - backlashes like your own. When I posted about the Fukoshima reactor and my research into the history of TEPCO's actions, I was sand-blasted with hatred -- only to be demonstrated correct as the findings of the various investigations have been revealed. That is because I DO THE LEGWORK. You and your pathetic little worms of friends do not.

      If I post a comment, it is not to get it modded higher (hell, I -average- +20 a week even after the vitriol I receive) it is because my research states that this is the hypothesis that is most likely correct and that the rival hypotheses have been falsified and thus safely ignored.

      I am not superior to you through greater intelligence (though that does help), I am superior to you because I actually understand the questions AND the answers, whereas you understand neither.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    92. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by ShavedOrangutan · · Score: 1

      Well, yeah. But I'll continue to vote for the crook I think will steal from me less, and otherwise come to Slashdot to complain about everything.

      --
      Godaddy is a scam and a ripoff.
    93. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As opposed to two people, aka the Koch Bros, or pick any Democratic Party demon of the week?

    94. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      Please tell me why "conservatives" can seldom use a homophone properly? The lack of basic literacy skills says a lot about why the tea party, Rush Limbaugh, and Newt Gingrich are popular.

      Hate to say this, but on /., at least, inability to use homophones properly seems to be spread across the political and social spectrum pretty uniformly.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    95. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by mcgrew · · Score: 5, Insightful

      One group is for smaller, less intrusive government

      No, they're for dismantling the government's power to regulate large industries so those large industries can screw you over; for dismantling the EPA (let corporations pollute all they want), FAA (as if flying isn't bad enough that I refuse to any more), the department of energy (as if we're not close to peak oil), deregulating banks so they can screw you over easier, etc.

      Oh, and they're for lower Federal taxes even though taxes are lower than any time since the Truman administration. But they don't want to lower my middle class taxes, they scream bloody murder when the Democrats want to lower them, they want to lower taxes on the rich and only the god damned rich. Oh, and they pretend to be Christians even though Christ was against everything they're for (e.g., taxes -- "render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar's" and "it's as hard for a 1%er to get to heaven as for a camel to go through the eye of a needle").

      Another group want someone else to pay thier student loans, free healthcare, not willing to start at the bottom and work thier way up. Generally want somone else to support them.

      Where does this incorrect garbage you teabaggers spew come from, anyway? That is NOT what Occupy is for. In fact, it's the 1% that you idiot teabaggers support that demand government entitlements -- like grants to oil companies, for example.

      Tea party is for the 1% and the 1% only, and anyone in the 99% who support them are incredibly stupid.

      Can't remember, which group was throwing malatov cocktails at police?

      Neither one, that was rioters in England. Or did Rush tell you different?

    96. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The occupy folks don't have corporate sponsors and can't afford to buy elections or hire lobbyists, or pay for buses to bring them to events and then take them home. They occupy because protesting is their only option.

      I bet most of the people commenting here have not attending an occupy protest. I have, and I can't speak for all locations, the Occupy Phoenix folks are well organized, and even have a group that went around cleaning up areas around the protest location. The figured as long as they're out there, why not do some good?

      At many Tea Party events, you're going to see the racists and the spelling challenged holding up signs, and we're told that these people do not represent the Tea Party. Same for the occupy folks. Anytime you get a crowd together, there's going to be a few bad apples.

      I bet everyone here griping about the OWS folks agrees that too big to fail is danger to our country. How about writing to your reps instead of commenting on a movement you most likely have no actual experience with beyond your TV and radio.

      But it's nothing like the AM radio hate mongers, Fox news blowhards, and internet conspiracy sites make it out to be. These are people who just want to have their voices heard, and not just live with whatever government the 1% doesn't take.

    97. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by chrissandvick · · Score: 1

      Thanks for illustrating my point, and also for linking to that site; the commenters prove my point as well.

      I doubt you'll see it, though. Seems like conservatives constitutionally love that sort of name-calling; fits in with the politics-as-a-team-sport motif.

      Nimey: You don't have a point. You have a prejudice which you nurture and feel you have to protect whenever reality might tarnish it. You toss "teabaggers" and "conservatives" as labels which you use as weapons to protect yourself from the reality that what Occupy has done and why they've have done it for is batcrap crazy nihilism. You call it name calling but I'd call it identification of the facts of reality.

    98. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great! Then why don't all of the 'true' Republicans out there vote out all of the 'fake' Republicans YOU ALL VOTED INTO OFFICE! The rest of us could use a break.

      Moron

    99. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Nimey · · Score: 1

      . How about writing to your reps instead of commenting on a movement you most likely have no actual experience with beyond your TV and radio.

      I do this, but sigh. It's hard to keep motivated when most of them will ignore me and do the opposite of what I ask. It's a natural consequence of living in a very conservative area, but it's still aggravating, especially when the "liberal" (hah) party reps do it as well.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    100. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by danbert8 · · Score: 1

      Yes, the federal deficit under Obama's 2 years is a smidgen less than Bush's last year. However, push it back through his entire presidency and it is definitely much more than it was. The point is, Obama AND Bush spend too much. The real Tea Party are those that actually support putting the government on the chopping block and reducing its size. Just because idiots show up to protests doesn't mean that the cause is idiotic.

      http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_2001_2011USb_13s1li111lcn_G0fF0f

      --
      Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
    101. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you typo that? Seems completely backwards. One group is for smaller, less intrusive government, period.

      That'd be the group that obstructed the spending deal this summer, leading to the Crash of 2011, right? That'd be the group that bought put options on the S&P (and/or bought the triple inverse funds outright) and profited off the crash that they themselves caused.

      The other group had rapes, death toll, clashes will police officers, hundreds, perhaps thousand of arrest. Significant drug usage, seriously dangerous sanitary conditions, outbreaks of disease and illegally occupying private property (including bolt cutting thier way into houses/churches/parkinglots and disrupting business. Causing several million dollars in damage and police overtime. All that time asking for corperate sponsership. Notice I didnt say which group was which.. I'll let you folks decide. Can help me out though, you said destructive.. Can't remember, which group was throwing malatov cocktails at police?

      The group causing millions of dollars in police and janitorial overtime are asshats, yes, but at least they didn't wipe out trillions of dollars of investors' equity just to increase their odds in the 2012 election cycle.

    102. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Lunzo · · Score: 1

      In that case they should have posthumously named Mohamed Bouazizi as person of the year. He's the Tunisian guy who started the Arab Spring by setting himself on fire in protest.

    103. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Nimey · · Score: 1

      Look, it's probably not possible to convince you, but let's try: look at those comments on the page you linked. Look at your comments. Count the number of loaded words.

      Let me help you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_word

      Consider why people are using words that provoke an emotional reaction rather than reasoning, why they assume the Other is out to get them.

      As to what I said about conservatives and their clannishness? It's a true fact. Psychologically speaking, conservatives tend more towards people who are of the tribe, to authority, to those like themselves, to policies that benefit people like themselves. It's part of what makes them what they are.

      http://whatever.scalzi.com/2002/03/22/i-hate-your-politics/

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    104. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      The federal deficit for Obama's first budget (FY2010) and the projected deficit for his second budget (FY2011) were/are LOWER than the deficit under Bush's last budget.

      Of course, it should also be noted that the Democratic controlled Senate in 2008 refused to pass a budget, instead just doing continuing resolutions for 2009.

      Then repeated that every year since. We're still operating under a continuing resolution for most of the discretionary Federal spending for 2012 (which fiscal year started back in September).

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    105. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Nimey · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'll take Devil's Advocate here:

      It's because of our broken-ass political system. You end up with extremists[1] in the primary because that's what gets the base out to vote, and then in the general election you've got 1) an extremist who agrees with you on most hot-button issues, and 2) a moderate who your side has painted as extremist, agrees with you on a few things, but not on "big" items.

      tl;dr: you've only got two choices, both are bad, and you hold your nose and vote for the less bad.

      [1] Obviously this is more a problem with the Republicans. The Dems are not liberal, they're centrist and have been moving to the center since about the time of Reagan. Genuine liberals in the Party are few. The Republicans have been moving further and further right since the early '90s if not earlier.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    106. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by jd · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Your analysis of the OWS is provably false because the OWS doesn't have any such stance. That you would bother to post without doing any research is evidence of your ignorance and vindication of my point. The ignorant are destructive, the knowledgeable are constructive.

      I would also point out that the nations with free health care have longer life expectancies, lower child mortality and fewer preventable deaths. That has nothing to do with the rich being "evil", that has to do with the ethics of not butchering those segments of the population you don't like. Or can I take it you approve of selective culls of anyone not sharing your politics?

      I would further point out that the US not only ranks below virtually every Western nation on happiness, education, corruption prevention and crime prevention, it also ranks below virtually every Western nation on political involvement, political transparency, political ethics, political discourse and political maturity. The cause of these latter ones is simple to identify -- ideological "purity" fetishists, of which you are clearly one. The cause of the former is through LACK of government, not excess of it.

      OWS has nothing against people being rich, and it's hard to call 80% of the American population a voting minority -- well, unless you first believe that you have suddenly gained the UNCONSTITUTIONAL right to disenfranchise 80% of Americans.

      The Tea Party has absolutely zero understanding of the Constitution, pressured the House to ignore one amendment (which requires the Government to make good on debts) and has sought to repeal another. Sorry, but the Tea Party is not about adhering to the Constitution, it is about the Constitution's destruction.

      The Tea Party likes the role model of Somalia - a nation run by religious extremists with heavy weapons but without any kind of government structure. It doesn't? Well, care to explain (a) why the religious extremists are the ones in America with the heavy weapons, (b) why those extremists are the ones the Tea Party wants as political leaders, and (c) what the hell you THINK would happen if the US had no government (the smallest government you can have)? Perry has already stated he wants the Presidency dissolved, so no, you can't get away with saying they want "minimal" government. They've made it clear they want NONE. Anarchy. Somalia-style warlord fiefdoms. THAT is what the Tea Party is explicitly advocating and THAT is what you are supporting.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    107. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Nimey · · Score: 1

      I think you'll find that this isn't so pervasive over on the other team. It's there, yes, and frankly obnoxious, but not as systematized and echoed by the commentariat.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    108. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by geekoid · · Score: 0, Troll

      Yes, if the Tea party was having protest in most countries, and had as many people as the media would leave yu to believe, then yes they would have been on the cover.

      The fact the Team Party members think this should include them is another examples of how deluded and willfully ignorant they are.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    109. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by jd · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Quit taxing us so much" would also have a bit more, ummm, credibility if the Tea Party were in support of extending the tax cuts for the poor. However, the Tea Party is actually pressuring tax INCREASES on the poor. Thus, their message has nothing to do with tax reduction EXCEPT on the high-earners. The Tea Party has made it very clear that tax increases on those who don't view the world the Tea Party way is the best way to crush those whose views are different.

      To me, crushing those you don't like is not rational. Listening to those you don't like IS rational. Those who post flammage as a reply to me are therefore not rational. Not because of their world view, but because of their destructive attitude. I have stated this more than once on many, many forums -- if you believe politics is about killing your opponents or crushing them beneath your feet, you are not into politics. I don't know what you're into, but it's not politics. A psych ward may be able to help in figuring it out, but that's the only hope for such cretins.

      A reply that is constructivist, listening and coherent, even if it flies 100% in the face of everything I think, IS rational. That is not a view you will ever hear a Tea Party advocate say, but it IS absolutely core to who I am.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    110. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by MonsterTrimble · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Disclaimer: I am Canadian.

      While it's true that the TP organizers emphasize that they're all about /fiscal/ conservatism, if you'll look at who makes up the movement and who said movement has collectively elected to represent them, it's pretty socially conservative as well, and hawkish, i.e. conservative Republicans.

      This is what I don't get about the United States. Why is there a connection between social and fiscal conservatism? Just because you believe there should be legal same sex marriages means that you want to fund everything, raise taxes sky high and spend like a drunken sailor on shore leave? Or that you believe in God means you don't believe there should be nationalized healthcare? It doesn't make sense. You would think that the time is right for a social-liberal/fiscal-conservative party to rise up and take the middle ground.

      --
      I call it 'The Aristocrats'
    111. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Missing.Matter · · Score: 2

      The following Republicans voted for the Reauthorization fo the Patriot Act in 2006:

      Alexander (R-TN)
      Allard (R-CO)
      Allen (R-VA)
      Bennett (R-UT)
      Bond (R-MO)
      Brownback (R-KS)
      Bunning (R-KY)
      Burns (R-MT)
      Burr (R-NC)
      Chafee (R-RI)
      Chambliss (R-GA)
      Coburn (R-OK)
      Cochran (R-MS)
      Coleman (R-MN)
      Collins (R-ME)
      Cornyn (R-TX)
      Craig (R-ID)
      Crapo (R-ID)
      DeMint (R-SC)
      DeWine (R-OH)
      Dole (R-NC)
      Domenici (R-NM)
      Ensign (R-NV)
      Enzi (R-WY)
      Frist (R-TN)
      Graham (R-SC)
      Grassley (R-IA)
      Gregg (R-NH)
      Hagel (R-NE)
      Hatch (R-UT)
      Hutchison (R-TX)
      Inhofe (R-OK)
      Isakson (R-GA)
      Kyl (R-AZ)
      Lott (R-MS)
      Lugar (R-IN)
      Martinez (R-FL)
      McCain (R-AZ)
      McConnell (R-KY)
      Murkowski (R-AK)
      Roberts (R-KS)
      Sessions (R-AL)
      Shelby (R-AL)
      Smith (R-OR)
      Snowe (R-ME)
      Specter (R-PA)
      Stabenow (D-MI)
      Stevens (R-AK)
      Sununu (R-NH)
      Talent (R-MO)
      Thomas (R-WY)
      Thune (R-SD)
      Vitter (R-LA)
      Voinovich (R-OH)
      Warner (R-VA)

      So... you're saying that these are all pretend Republicans? BTW, that's ALL Republicans in the Senate that year.

    112. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by pclminion · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Another group want someone else to pay thier student loans

      What we want is to pay reasonable price for a reasonable service. There are two ways really to fix this problem: get education costs under control (they were NOT always this high, there is SOMETHING WRONG somewhere), or, get employers to stop demanding four year college educations for positions that clearly do not require that. If your choice is between $200k of debt and permanent unemployment, that's just a fucking crappy choice.

      free healthcare

      Sure, I guess you could call it "free healthcare" in the sense of "free interstate highways," i.e. I don't write a check for it, but I do pay for it through my taxes. I do not want free healthcare, I want healthcare that will be there when I need it (you know, so I don't die), and to pay a realistic price for that. Yes, that means everyone needs to pay into the system.

      not willing to start at the bottom and work thier way up

      That's what I did. I graduated school with about $60k of debt, which I repaid within two years by living at home and literally spending NO MONEY on ANYTHING. I got dinner and a roof over my head, other than that, I was on my own. I couldn't afford to see a movie or buy a beer. Once those two years of misery were over, then I moved out. Now it's ten years later and I'm making over $100k and the only debt I have is a mortgage (a mortgage on which I make significant overpayments). What made this possible was my mother throwing me a bone by letting me stay at home and pay off that debt. I would have been crippled by it if not. She made a sacrifice (really, the same sacrifice she'd already been making for twenty years) for me, and in exchange I became a very successful son who will be there for her when she's old. So you see, it's possible to get help from somebody even if you're "starting at the bottom."

      I'm employed, married, self-reliant, and quite well off. And somehow the OWS movement resonates very strongly with me. They might be young, naive, and feel somewhat over-entitled but these are very real problems affecting millions of people. You can call them losers and parasites if you want, but I have a feeling they will not be going away for a LONG while.

    113. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by jd · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, you don't trust it because you're not interest in discourse - the only form of politics that actually exists. All else is militancy disguised as politics.

      You say "that's all I need to know or care about" not because of some God-given knowledge of yours but because you aren't interested in constructivism. Constructivists add. Destructivists remove. Tell me, are you adding or removing? The latter? Then you are making my point abundantly clear.

      To call me ignorant and a liar (and yourself a poor speller) is to be a revisionist. You say yourself that you don't trust what I say, that you don't care what I say. That *is* revisionism. You are editing reality to suit your preferences. That's what revisionism *IS*. I edit my beliefs to suit reality, because I learn. I construct, you destruct. It's as simple as that.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    114. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1

      Or you could just roll up your sleeves and get involved, maybe even run yourself. You only have 2 bad choices because, in the end, you and millions like you, are comfortable with that.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    115. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The former blends" - Please support this contention. El Guapo, I know that I, Jefe, do not have your superior intellect and education...

    116. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by ShavedOrangutan · · Score: 1

      So... you're saying that these are all pretend Republicans?

      Yes, that is what I am saying. And the fake Democrat in office signed it.

      --
      Godaddy is a scam and a ripoff.
    117. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Derosian · · Score: 1

      OWS: We want the "rich" (anyone who makes more than we do) to pay more taxes so the government can give us free stuff! Only evil people are rich (except for the rich politicians and other rich political players on *our* side...that's *different*!)! And if we don't get what we demand despite being a voting minority, we'll use violence (*this* is what democracy looks like!!!1!!one) to achieve our goals.

      TEA Party: We want government to stop taxing us so much and wasting so much of the taxes they take from us, and to actually start obeying the laws and the limitations on government power that's in the Constitution.

      You were saying something about irrationality and destructive rabble-rousing? I must have missed the TEA Party riots, arrests, violence & assaults, drug dealing/use, rapes, property destruction, and the massive clean-ups needed like that which occur/occurred at OWS protests.

      Strat

      Let me teach you a few things you seem to not understand.

      The Tea Party Protest is aimed at Government adherence to the Constitution, opposition to excessive taxation, reduce government spending and waste, while the Occupy movement are about Wealth inequality and Corporate influence of government, basically corruption and the increased handle that large businesses have on our government(source:wikipedia). The mean age range of the Tea Party Protest is much higher than the Occupy Protests(Just look at pictures of people from both protests). First you should understand the Age Crime Curve, which is a basic curve showing crime rates of certain age groups and displaying that age increases the crime rate decreases, not excusing the actions just saying they are more likely via statistics. Secondly you should understand the media's perception and bias of both movements, while originally the media didn't side with the Tea Party Movement, after a few politicians jumped on the bandwagon the media started being very supportive until the dirt started getting kicked up about this, but actually the Tea Party generally was supported by the bigger picture. While the Occupy Movement was against everything the majority of corporations wanted, some specific things that the Occupy movement wanted were a repeal on the ruling that money was freedom of speech, specifically because lack of money is lack of speech. The Occupy movement also drew a hard line on the fact that that the income gap has grown in leaps in and bounds due to the circle-jerk method of deciding CEO pay. I.e you increase my pay, I increase yours, and then we deduct excessive pay from our taxes making the people pay for it. Also at hand is the 15% flat tax on income gained via investment, while anyone who makes money vie exchange of hours can be taxed up to 35%. So basically what the Occupy movement stood for was very contrary to what the majority of corporations stood for, why should they want less power in the government. So then you get to the good part, the modern media is all owned by large corporations, and are backing them. Also due to regulation and licensing it is very difficult(read, impossible) for a start-up television company to get going without some heavy handed backing. Thus the media market is- wait, what was I talking about again?

      Anyway point is both movements have negative and positive sides, and your perspective of them is rather skewed and actually feels more like a troll than a real point.

    118. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Nimey · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This 'merkin is just as mystified as you are. I don't see the necessary connection either, especially in a party that's not particularly fiscally conservative anyway (at least not when in the majority).

      Thanks to our fucked-up political system (and because of mass hysteria), we're basically stuck with two parties, forever.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    119. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The fact the Team Party members think this should include them is another examples of how deluded and willfully ignorant they are.

      Perhaps.

      Numerically, the Tea Party events attracted more people to more locations than OWS. But they were peaceful and didn't last days and weeks, so they didn't make as many headlines.

    120. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by pclminion · · Score: 1

      When the poor, homeless, addicted and destitute protest, their protests will be full of the poor, homeless, addicted and destitute. What you are noticing is that the people who are the worst off in society exhibit serious social problems. Yes, exactly. That's why we need to understand the source of these problems and fix them. So we don't have all that shit you mentioned.

      The Tea Party didn't have that stuff because the Tea Party had nothing to do with real people.

    121. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      I guess this article is a lie?

      The figures in the article are not lies. But your attempt to use those figures to dispute the other poster's claim is dishonest. The deficit during Obama's first year as president was due to Bush's budget, not Obama's.

      Yes, Bush's deficits were lower, on average, than Obama's so far. But that ignores what Bush did to the annual deficit while he was in office -- by the end of his second term, he increased the budgetary deficit to an astounding 1.55 trillion. Under Obama, the FY10 deficit increased slightly to 1.63 trillion, and the FY11 budget is projected to be 1.27 trillion.

      Bush inherited a good fiscal situation, and turned it to crap. Obama inherited a crap fiscal situation, and it's yet to be seen what he does with it -- but so far it appears he is starting to undo some of the harm Bush did re: the deficit.

      My sources are the same sources used by the article you cited.

      You sir, are the one who is being dishonest or horribly ignorant -- but it seems to me to be the former.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    122. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by jd · · Score: 1

      The true Scotsmen I know would consider the Patriot Act to be blasphemy, the Tea Party to be a bunch of Southerners dictating to the True North and Alabama to be worse than the Campbells -- and you don't get worse than that.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    123. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Nimey · · Score: 1

      This is true. However, I'm not sure I'd be a good politician were I elected. I might be better than the turds we have now, but that doesn't mean I'm necessarily a good choice overall.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    124. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am a tea partier, even though I am not in the 1%, because I have first-hand experience with the inconsistent popularity contest the liberals tout as social justice.

      The fact is you are plain wrong: The Tea Party wasn't astroturf (note the past tense). But to me the choice is clear: I will be with the Tea Partiers who are at least internally consistent then submit myself to the raw end of the bargain from what the liberals tout as "social justice."

      Exactly how many of the Occupiers even care about issues like excessive bullying or helping ensure social acceptance for everybody? None. Why? Because that would force THEM to sacrifice. And any sacrifice that doesn't come from the 1% is not a sacrifice worth making according to them. Yet not an hour goes by where I don't think about killing myself because of the heaps of shit I have been put through, and the especially gritting part is what I went through was EASILY PREVENTABLE. Would the occupiers give me a path to closure and justice? Fuck no, I can't even get validation from them. But if I was a minority in any way or was hurt by the 1% economically they would be falling over themselves to preach about the need for more social justice.

      Don't get me wrong, I would love validation, I would love justice and closure. But lets look at the facts on the ground: one side equally says "meh" to all such concerns, the other side would be very quick to help if I was hurt in... pretty much any other way other than the way I was actually hurt. Which side would you be on?

    125. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by jd · · Score: 1

      Worthless. Obama's efforts to get conciliation and negotiation have failed utterly, showing replacing any one person is a pointless endeavor. Unless you have a majority in both Houses AND the Presidency AND a majority in the Supreme Court, no third viewpoint is worth a damn.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    126. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by geekoid · · Score: 2, Informative

      1st: No h isn't. There re dozens and dozens of reports showing tea party crashing town hall meeting and disrupting them. Literally the definition of rabble rousing. You are stupid to think otherwise.

      2nd: NO he isn't.

      You are a typical tea bagger. Provable lying, and relying on Ad Homs and deflection instead of owning up to facts.

      " TP members are polite in comparison to the OWS members. "
      uh, no. Again, the disrupted town hall meeting, threatened people, and tried to stop people from voting.

      " OWS leave a wake of filth and destruction in their path."
      no really. The police come in, trash all there stuff, hall them off, and then blame the resulting trash heap on OWS.

      It's like going into a restaurant, forcing everyone out, and then complaining about dirty dishes on the table. well, no shit.

      "OWS had the most arrests"
      so? they where arrested for not leaving the park BFD. At least that had the courage to suffer for their beliefs. Instead of screaming nonsense at town halls and then going home to whine about Obama's birth certificate.

      "Oh, and rapes have been documented too. I could go on and on."
      it's easy to go on and on when you are making shit up.

      Of course, deflected Tea Bagger complaint onto OWS is simply a cheap debate tactic that any 11 year old could do.
      OTOH, your sig clearly indicates you lack any actual thinking ability.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    127. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by johnlcallaway · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The Tea Party didn't have protests .. they had rallies. They got permits, paid for security, trash pickup, and porta-potties, as required by law, and moved on when their permits were up. While the goals weren't completely well defined (i.e. reduce spending), they didn't hold large tracts of land hostage, deny workers and consumers access to businesses, and worked to better define the goals. They worked within the system to elect officials to help put into place their goals. People joined the tea party and began to make a difference in very short order as politicians listened and took some action.

      The protestors in the middle east were met with violent resistance from a government that suppressed them when they were unable to work through the system for their goals. They worked for years (decades?) to bring about change without any results, making it obvious this was their only recourse. They were able to effect change through revolution because their government could not sustain order in the face of widespread opposition TO the government.

      The OWS groups, on the other hand, have no real goals that can be met to end their protest. Their stated goals can never be defined. For instance, when does profit become greed? Ending corporate influence is only possible if all groups are tossed out from impacting politics, such as unions, environmental groups, and AARP. And even then the rich will always have more access simply because they can buy more ads and travel more. Utopia is a beautiful concept, but very difficult to implement without trashing freedoms.

      OWS has only been doing this for a few months, have made NO attempts to work through the existing processes, they feel free to deny access to public places and businesses to both workers and consumers, and in general are just a bunch of clueless drones who grab onto catch phrases that have little meaning. They basically have done nothing to even generate the smallest amount of sympathetic emotions among the general population, and the only change I've seen them bring about is more regulations about camping in public places. If anything, their lack of direction and willingness to follow ANY laws has resulted in people making fun of them and outright disgust with their stated goals.

      So I'll agree with Time that the Tea Party shouldn't have been included. But the attempt to place the OWS groups with the middle east protestors denigrates the middle east protestors and their worthy goals.

      --
      I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
    128. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by jd · · Score: 1

      Exactly. Results matter, purity does not. Purity of thought should be left to Buddhist monks - it actually seems to be something they can do something useful with.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    129. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by geekoid · · Score: 2

      1% isn't "anyone making more money then we do"

      It's the fucking richest people.

      "We want government to stop taxing us so much"
      we aren't taxed much. Lowest amount since Truman.

      " wasting so much of the taxes they take from us,
      by any actual measure, the governemnt isn't actually all the waste full. Down right lean compared to large corporations.
      Not that I expect you to have actually read the reports and look at the accounting over runs, bumps, or an comparative metric.

      Just spout what you think is 'obvious' . I sued to think that way to, then I spent over 5 years studying government reports and accounts.

      "actually start obeying the laws and the limitations on government power that's in the Constitution"
      I have yet to find a TP who actually understand the Constitution. Hell many of the people I talked to hadn't even read it.

      " I must have missed the TEA Party riots, "
      Apparently you did. There where many. They did there best to stop all government function, and were pretty damn ruse about it.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    130. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 1

      If Rachel Maddow is "extreme" to you, then I really have no idea what you consider "center."

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
    131. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by duguk · · Score: 3, Funny

      Please tell me why "conservatives" can seldom use a homophone properly? The lack of basic literacy skills says a lot about why the tea party, Rush Limbaugh, and Newt Gingrich are popular.

      Hate to say this, but on /., at least, inability to use homophones properly seems to be spread across the political and social spectrum pretty uniformly.

      Homo-phones? Maybe he's scared of Telephone HIV, and that it can lead on to Hearing Aids.

    132. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by ddd0004 · · Score: 1

      Time probably already had a relatively strong penetration in the typical Tea Party demographic. They probably saw a large potential in the Occupy protester demographic.

    133. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Genda · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      I'm sorry you can't use "Mein Kampf" as your standard measure, at least not as a measure for political center. Do you realize, that compared to the political norm that today, Ronald Reagan would have been considered a hippie. Coming out as a click head just informs me that associated yourself with a man whose brain is inversely proportional to his mouth. Sadly the world is rife with them (conservative and liberal.)

      TIME magazine has one of the most illustrious histories of any publication in this country. The fact that it has degenerated into its current state is an indictment of the readership and not the publication. Its sadly had to compete with People and a host of vapid infotainment publications that has slowly bled it of its once famous gravitas. The historic images, classic images of the depression, VE Day in New York city, the launch of the Saturn V and man's first landing on the moon, the first ever images of the human embryo developing, the stories of the lives and times of people of the day from a committedly neutral editorial point of view. These were TIMEs bread and butter. I'll bet you're one of those guys who thinks that PBS news is a commie plot, yes? No?

      That's saddest thing of all. A publication that tells the straight honest truth, without injecting a spin, or supporting a political view favoring a multinational corporate conglomerate (did I just see a FOX?), or even a publication that doesn't pander to a mouth breathing, knuckle dragging populace, is no longer relevant. Its an anachronism, pushed out by the serial brain farts emanating from Twitter. Its gorgeously rendered images displaced by a continuous flood of crappy, blurry, cell phone snap shots. I know, its a romantic delusion, all things must pass. It just saddens me that the foolish, ignorant, or profoundly irreverent among us, have eroded the beautiful and genteel things in life, and replaced them with fart jokes and MREs (I guess one leads to the other.)

      I for one hope TIME hangs around for a while, maybe even finds its way back to greatness. Its a hope.

    134. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by cmdr_klarg · · Score: 1

      Does anyone still subscribe to Time? I thought it had become another vanity publishing rag like Newsweek, with a few thousand copies made each month just for the ego of the publishers and the few doctors offices who hadn't bothered to cancel their subscriptions.

      I do currently, but am going to let it lapse once the subscription runs out (got a full 52 week sub for $10). Nothing in there that I haven't already seen on the intarwebs.

      --
      THE SOFTWARE, IT NO WORKY!!!
    135. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Nimey · · Score: 1

      It'd be more in keeping with Occam's Razor to say that /you/ are the fake Republican.

      Seriously. You can't claim that the entire fucking national party is "fake"; they may not have your principles (or indeed many principles at all) but it's asinine to say that they're all fake. It's more like you think you're a Republican and so they should be like you.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    136. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by chrissandvick · · Score: 0

      Cute, but people, and the ideas they hold, are not policies.

      Amusingly, if they were, what'd of the anarchist, marxist, conspiracist brew that Occupy consists of? I suspect you'll stick to that analogy only one way.

    137. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1

      That's really the wrong metric to measure by IMO. In a democracy, anyone with the will to make change can do so, and at multiple levels of involvement. That's kinda the point of the whole thing.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    138. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1

      There's 2.5 million Americans who can now afford to have health insurance who would strongly disagree with you.

      Also, while it's early days yet, he put two non-crazy people on the SC.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    139. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by idontgno · · Score: 1

      Two problems here. 1st, you're lying! 2nd, you're a karma whore for capitalizing on anti-consertative ignorant fucks out there with Mod points.

      TBH, your post is a prime example of Poe's Law: "it is impossible to create a parody of fundamentalism that someone won't mistake for the real thing."

      Or, in other words, "Can't tell if trolling..."

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    140. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by drnb · · Score: 1

      If Rachel Maddow is "extreme" to you, then I really have no idea what you consider "center."

      No, she's no more extreme than Bill Oreily, just left of center as he is right of center, both occasionally making reasonable points. Something closer to center would probably be Dylan Ratigan. The wackos would be more like Glenn Beck and Keith Olberman, although Beck reigns supreme in this category. Rush Limbaugh may be a more appropriate comparison for Olberman, but he's not a Fox.

    141. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering the previous generation had the benefits of inexpensive post-secondary education and the ability to find a job that paid a living wage with a high school education, rather than needing to go tens of thousands of dollars in debt, it's a bit tiresome when the ladder gets pulled.

      Let's ignore the video where a bunch of sitting protestors were indiscriminately pepper sprayed by the police

    142. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by jd · · Score: 1

      I agree with what you say, but note the following:

      1) If the education is actually worth the money, it will produce either a better-paying job AND/OR a more efficient company. Either way, both individuals and companies pay tax, so those who get functional education pay twice (three times if you include the corporation's taxes) for that education, but those who get non-functional education only pay once. That doesn't add up. That is punishing success and rewarding failure - the very thing the right-wing tell us NOT to do. I don't care how that's fixed, but to excuse not fixing it on the grounds that it's ok to punish success when it's other people's success - no, I will not accept that.

      2) I care that the net cost to America for health-care exceeds the net cost to every single one of the next five most successful Western nations. The gross costs are immaterial because only the net matters. Only the net defines how much we pay in taxes, only the net defines how profitable business can be, only the net controls the national deficit, only the net has any real existence. I don't care how you lower the net, I only care that you don't ignore it in favor of the gross which means exactly nothing.

      3) I wonder how many Tea Partiers entered at the management level with MBAs. I wonder how many of them started with old money and used that to bypass the bottom rungs. Yes, plenty of Democrats have done that too, but they're not the ones arguing about starting at the bottom. It's the right that is... ...except when it applies to them. To have everyone truly start at the bottom, inheritance tax would be 100% with material heirlooms being sent to museums for evaluation in a cultural history perspective. I see no-one, left or right, who would seriously believe - never mind advocate - such a system. So, no, the right is not about "everyone" starting at the bottom OR working their way up. Nor is the left. The only question is who starts where, because nobody thinks they should start at the bottom. My own view is an extrapolation from the question of what one can do for their country. You want, really want, to ask what you can do for your country? Then the answer is to do your best and you cannot do your best if you're incorrectly placed. Round peg, square hole. Start at your peak value. THEN you will be doing for your country. To be a drain on the nation through starting too far down (or too far up) is to scrounge off the nation and to be a drain on what it offers.

      I'd note that plenty of top-ranking lawyers, top-ranking doctors and even corporate board directors have taken part in OWS protests. These are people who have no student loans left, have healthcare that's damn-near free and who have little further to rise. How can they possibly be asking these things for themselves? They ARE the "rich", they ARE the 1%, but they're still protesting and they're still OWS. The Tea Party doesn't want to explain that or understand that. Look around at other replies to me. You'll see people stating openly that they don't want to know, don't care to know, and despise anything that conflicts with them.

      The young may feel over-entitled, but I quote Harold McMillan (a staunch conservative if ever there was one) - if you're not socialist by the age of 20 you have no heart, and if you're still socialist by the age of 40 you have no brain. In short, the young are SUPPOSED to feel over-entitled. It's how they learn. You cannot ever learn where the true boundaries lie if you never test them. His latter point was just as important -- if you haven't learned where the boundaries are in 20 years, you're a damn fool. But, unlike him, I don't place restrictions on the specifics. If you have drawn a nice, safe but totally dysfunctional set of boundaries that never go anywhere near where they rightfully should to be maximally functional, you're still a damn fool.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    143. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by jd · · Score: 1

      Well, your total incapacity to form an intelligent reply certainly confirms your claim, Jefe, that you lack any kind of intellect or education. Maybe when you actually ask something, it can be answered. Until then, you're as capable of reading Plato's Republic as the rest of us.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    144. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by ShavedOrangutan · · Score: 1

      Where did I say I was a Republican?

      --
      Godaddy is a scam and a ripoff.
    145. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      I'm sure I'll get modded down for saying this but wtf, truth is truth > What you are calling the TP hasn't actually existed since early 09, what we saw all through most of 4th quarter 09 and all through 2010 was "Tea Party Express" which is simply Koch Bros astroturf. Sure they were peaceful, they were getting paid! you don't act like a douche at YOUR job, do you?

      Please don't believe me, i truly believe an informed public is a better public. Please, go look up tea party express and the Koch bros and follow the money. since late 09 the TP Express has been running the show and its made sure that word for word their talking points are the Koch bros. While the TP idea I thought was a nice one soon the big money came in and the message was replaced by astroturf. All you are gonna get out of any TP now is ultra right wing talking points, ala "Go Patriot act! Yay big military spending!" which was the complete opposite of what TP was originally supporting.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    146. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by DigiShaman · · Score: 2

      It's called psychological projection. Also known as hypocrisy. Ivory league progressives are the gold standard of this behavior. Militant leftists would also be included except for the fact they have no standards in the first place. For the later, they're a bunch of thugs, hooligans, gypsies, and otherwise a page out of the Lord of the Flies. They will learn discipline and be held accountable among their fellow citizens one way or another. I can promise you that.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    147. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 1

      Bill O'Reilly routinely makes shit up. Routinely. So much so Ford's Theater is refusing to sell his book.

      He makes a lot of really shitty points and engages in fights with his subject matter so often he's known for it.

      Keith Olbermann's a wacko? On Rush Limbaugh levels? Are you watching the same show I am?

      When was the last time MSNBC held a rally? Or hosted a debate? Or did any of the insanely nutty shit Fox News does on a daily basis?

      I think that Steve Jobs pegged Fox News right, calling it a destructive force and that Rupert Murdoch was fucking it all up.

      Unless somehow shows about prison are just as equally as poisonous as Sean Hannity.

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
    148. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Nimey · · Score: 1

      That's fair.

      However, it's still asinine to say that they're somehow fake.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    149. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Nimey · · Score: 1

      And there you go with the name calling again. "Marxist"? "Conspiracist"? Seriously.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    150. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

      Please tell me why "conservatives" can seldom use a homophone properly?

      Oh, and there goes my Obvious Joke Setup sensor. Little burning bits all over the office.

    151. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doctors' offices.

    152. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What horrible industrial-grade chemical have you been snorting, and in what family-sized quantity?

      The Occupiers are nothing BUT destructive. They have no solutions. Their only "solution" is pointing out symptoms to a problem they don't even fucking grasp. A problem to which they're a symptom as well, not an answer.

      Change doesn't occur by being a useless piece of shit all day (which is the definition and mission plan of "occupy") and hoping that responsible people in power notice it. The constitution outlines the system for change -- election. If you want to change the world, you have the ability to be elected to a position of responsibility, whether you were born a pauper or the son of a politician, it doesn't matter; once you reach that position of responsibility, you find you are only good at influencing shit, rather than actually changing it.
       
      I'm in touch with my Congressman, I'm in touch with my senator. Hell, I could be a commissioner in the second largest city in the country if I wanted the extra hours, all because I volunteer one hour a month in a city position. We don't have to have revolutions, because every 2-4 years, our system demands that we allow our leaders to be overturned by the will of the majority when they are found lacking.

      Now, what has the Tea Party been attempting? To be useless pieces of shit all day or to actually run for positions in government? To enact budget reforms or whine loud enough until "someone smarter" enacts them? Did that work? No, for several reasons (in large part because the people running as "Tea Party" were actually Republican scumbags who couldn't hack it as republicans), but it's a fuck of a lot more constructive than camping out on someone else's lawn and not showering enough.

      Both groups were good at pointing out the symptoms of the broken system. The small forays of Tea Party into politics was even revealing of the ACTUAL problem, if anyone cared to look, but to call the Occupy movement as anything but the enormous shitstain in the middle of your carpet that lets you know you have an uninvited guest in your house, is giving them far too much credit.

      Honestly, I'd go on for about 20,000 more words, but I'm nowhere near the point, yet, and I feel my words are being wasted anyway.

    153. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why is there a connection between social and fiscal conservatism?

      The connection is "social conservatives" are ripe for manipulation because of the emotional nature of the narrow band of issues they really care about: hating gays, making Christianity the national religion and criminalizing abortion. In steps large corporations and plutocrats, who want to be free from taxation and regulation (rule of law). They have the money to convince social conservatives their interests are the same and organize them to elect politicians to eliminate taxation and regulations, while *maybe* throwing a bone or two of legislation for the goals of the manipulated.

    154. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      One group is for smaller, less intrusive government, period.

      Which group is that? Cause it certainly isn't the Tea Party.

    155. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, you are a fucking idiot aren't you

    156. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by i_b_don · · Score: 1

      Yeah... heh heh... Those stupid conservatives! What iiiiiidiots! They don't even know how to use a homopho--- homophone? what? wtf is a homophone? (*goes to google and looks it up*) Yeah! Stupid tea party! /s

      d

      --
      all language nazi's will burne in heil!
    157. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by ShavedOrangutan · · Score: 1

      I listen to a lot of conservative talk radio (Sirius Patriot - although they've nearly ruined it by signing on Glen Beck who I can't stand). There's a lot of talk there about the difference between little-r republicanism and the big-R Republican Party. Just the fact that whenever the big-R Republicans are in charge, the federal government gets BIGGER makes it very clear that they do not represent the fiscally conservative ideals of republicanism. They represent something entirely different and have hijacked the conservative voter base because, well, who else are we going to vote for?

      Anyways, I did vote for McCain, but that was under duress. If I was a democrat, I'd be pretty disappointed with the Democratic party as well.

      --
      Godaddy is a scam and a ripoff.
    158. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      not willing to start at the bottom and work thier way up

      What bottom?

    159. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Nimey · · Score: 0

      In the past couple years, the fiscal conservatives are the dupes who've been gulled into voting for the plutocrats. Same pattern as with the social conservatives, but they're not sharp enough to notice that the GOP's been leading the evangelicals on for thirty years without actually giving them what they want.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    160. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your analysis of the OWS is provably false because the OWS doesn't have any such stance. That you would bother to post without doing any research is evidence of your ignorance and vindication of my point. The ignorant are destructive, the knowledgeable are constructive.

      ...

      I would further point out that the US not only ranks below virtually every Western nation on happiness, education, corruption prevention and crime prevention, it also ranks below virtually every Western nation on political involvement, political transparency, political ethics, political discourse and political maturity.

      emphasis mine, things aren't going to get any better if you go around calling people ignorant and destructive, no matter how much you disagree with them.

      (a) why the religious extremists are the ones in America with the heavy weapons, (b) why those extremists are the ones the Tea Party wants as political leaders, and (c) what the hell you THINK would happen if the US had no government (the smallest government you can have)?

      Your analysis of the Tea Party is provably false because the Tea Party doesn't have any such stance. That you would bother to post without doing any research is evidence of your ignorance and vindication of my point. The ignorant are destructive, the knowledgeable are constructive.

        If you've forgotten the early Tea Party, before they even had a name for the movement, they sounded almost exactly like the OWS protesters sound now, focused mainly on accountability. What they've become is a damn shame, but the way politics work in this country OWS is probably going to end up sounding exactly like them in a few months. All the people who want accountability in financial institutions and government will be pushed out by the loudmouths and it'll become just some twisted and corrupted talking point absorbed into the crazier end of one of the two parties. Real reforms in the US government have to start with getting rid of the two party system and replacing it with something where people have an actual incentive to get involved.

    161. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      How many of the Tea Partiers were homeless? How many of the people at the Tea Party protests were there because they had nowhere else to go? How many at the Tea Party protests were simply upper middle class white people bitching that they had to chip in for the assistance that they had received their entire lives?

    162. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      OWS protesters didn't carry guns to Town Hall meetings.

    163. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      They have no solutions.

      Neither did the Tea Party. They just wanted to remove any and all safeguards, and let the "free market" sort things out.

    164. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      OWS: ...we'll use violence

      Correct me if I'm wrong, but only one of the movements actually had people bringing guns to the rallies, and it wasn't OWS.

    165. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      I must have missed the TEA Party riots

      How could you? They brought the government to the brink of shutdown multiple times this year.

    166. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are those even still around? I thought these days they just hang out on the shooting range and mutter angrily about the IRS.

    167. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      So, since you decided to just spout lies and propaganda, I'm going to assume that's your way of saying you have no actual rebuttal, and that Nimey is correct in his post.

    168. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by toadlife · · Score: 1

      It appears that you just said "smaller, more restrained government is a fantasy".

      It appears you have a reading comprehension problem. The fantasy I'm taking about is the premise that the tea party operates on; the idea that the government has grown significantly in size in recent history. The government has grown slowly over time, but these have been overwhelmingly due to programs that are immensely popular with all Americans - even Tea Partiers.

      --
      I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
    169. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      The Tea Party has been quite the thorn in the political establishment.

      Which is why they started as a wing of one of the major political parties, were constantly guided by that party, and ended up giving that party quite a bit of wins in the 2010 elections. Yup, major thorn, that group.

    170. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What does this have to do with the article? I wanted to hear about Time Magazine, dammit! Doesn't everyone? Stop giggling!

    171. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      A bunch of spoiled people demanding more free shit is the antitheses of what the tea party is about.

      Actually, that's exactly what the Tea Party is about. They just want more shit for the rich.

    172. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Totenglocke · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Because they were protesting to try to fix irresponsible government spending, while OWS is protesting to add even more deficit in order to avoid having to be judged based on their merits. It's no secret that TIME magazine is incredibly biased in favor of Democrats / Socialists / "progressives" (disgusting term, since there's nothing progressive about regurgitating the same proven to fail ideas).

      --
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
    173. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      And I'm sure none of that had to do with the financial crisis that Obama got handed. Nope, times were completely equivalent between the two.

    174. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nonsense.

    175. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      a true conservative republican wouldn't approve at all of the Patriot Act

      No true Scotsman.

      Thats not quite a no true scotsman, hes stating that to be a "by definition" reality. You might as well claim that "Someone who is pro-big-government is by definition not a libertarian" is a No True Scotsman.

    176. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Nimey · · Score: 1

      Also Communists who want to take their guns away.

      I'm not making that up, actually.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    177. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      You might call him responsible for starting the Arab Spring, but that really does disservice to all the people who continued it. Not to mention all of the news about Greek and Italian protests, and then the Occupy protests. And this week there was news of a huge set of Russian protests. Whether you disagree with them or not, all of these protests were big news throughout the year, and to say only one of them was newsworthy is a disservice to the others.

    178. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The religious types took over the GOP- simple as that.

      Back in the day (hey, stop yawning!) even the likes of Nixon actually *warned* against mixing politics and religion. He was buddies with Billy Graham, but Nixon, a Quaker, is said to have expressed concerns that his dealings with Graham would be interpreted as politicial rather than personal.

      Even wacky Goldwater figured out religion and politics shouldn't mix.

      I'd say the real turning point was when Pat Robertson beat then VP George Bush in the 1988 Iowa Caucuses. That was where the religious right figured it all out after about a decade of working the system. Robertson's campaign eventually failed, but they learned a lot there. In hindsight it's clear why they disbanded the "Moral Majority" in the following year- they realized the big preachy public organizations didn't work. they needed to hit the system at it's innards.

      I hate to say it as I pretty much loathe organized religion of any type, but I kind of admire what they did. They set a goal of taking power, and quietly and within the system did so. They didn't squat in parks. They didn't walk around rallies with rifles slung over their shoulders. They didn't take dumps on police cars or draw arbitrary divisions between two emotional sounding percentages. They proceeded logically and deliberately toward their goal.

      Sometimes you have to respect an enemy, even if begrudgingly, before you can defeat them. Patton understood that one.

      You would think that the time is right for a social-liberal/fiscal-conservative party to rise up and take the middle ground.

      I'd like to see a Party that has no agenda other than "We will do whatever it takes to most efficiently mitigate a problem without concern what ideological banner that solution falls under, and we will not get lost in an endless and fruitless quest for perfection that cannot exist."

      Bonus points for: "If government involvement will clearly make things worse, or fails to make reasonable improvements after a predetermines trial period, we will consider not doing anything until the situation changes or new resources/concepts justify revisiting the issue."

    179. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Totenglocke · · Score: 2

      The connection is "social conservatives" are ripe for manipulation because of the emotional nature of the narrow band of issues they really care about:

      The same can be said about fiscal liberals in the US - they continually used emotional arguments about how "it's mean" to not make a more successful (and thus wealthier) person subsidize / give a free ride to those who weren't as successful. No, really - go around the internet and read blogs, forums, or news articles. You'll see just as many, though I'd say probably more, references to the opposition being "soul-less" and "cold hearted" in posts by fiscal liberals in the US than you will social conservatives.

      Disclaimer: I belong to neither group, I just hate how incredibly biased most discussions are in favor of fiscal liberals where they refuse to accept that fiscal liberals can do any wrong.

      --
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
    180. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you believe EVERYTHING you hear on Fox News? Great. Have fun with your feelings of right-wing entitlement and nonsensical talking points.

    181. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Totenglocke · · Score: 1

      I'd agree that they're fake Republicans. The US doesn't really have Republicans and Democrats anymore (at least not on the national level) - we have one party with a couple minor disagreements in views that they pretend to care about, but they share the primary goal of increasing the power of the Federal government and their own bank accounts. This is why the US desperately needs to break away from the Republican vs Democrat mentality, because it's screwing EVERYONE over except the politicians.

      --
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
    182. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Totenglocke · · Score: 0

      The Dems are not liberal, they're centrist and have been moving to the center since about the time of Reagan.

      Right, because "centrist" means banning self defense, massively uneven tax burden distribution, massive government programs, banning / regulating the hell out of every last thing, flat out calling your political opponents your "enemies" on TV and then claiming that THEY refuse to try to work together, etc.

      Seriously, your bias cannot be any more blatant, nor could it be further from reality. Both parties at the national level are full of shit - but this bullshit that Democrats can do no wrong is not only ridiculous, but really starting to get annoying.

      --
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
    183. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by painandgreed · · Score: 2

      Don't kid yourself, fiscal conservatism really doesn't play into American politics. For most, fiscal conservative means spend money where I want it spent or "cut off money to socially liberal programs." Take the Tea Party for example, they state they want responsible economic policy for the US, and that sounds great. Sign me up. Then you ask how they plan to do that and the crazy comes out. Usually this involves getting rid of the government programs they don't like such as welfare, the EPA, Department of Education, etc. None of them seem to realize that we could get rid of all of our branches of the government and stop paying any government salaries, but until you cut Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the military, and the interest on our debt, that wouldn't even balance the budget.

      As for a third social-liberal/fiscal-conservative party, it really just won't work because of how US politics operates. The current two parties don't really stand for anything. As most US elections are winner take all, the parties take whatever stance can get them 51% of the vote. This means they both are pretty much the same, except where they do differenciate is with single issue voters, the rabid "one cause" people who will vote for any party if that's what they support. These usually divide up as polar opposites with one party getting one and the other getting the other. Those fringe get so much power in the parties, because those are the people willing to donate money, organize, and actually get out and vote on their own. If any single cause gains enough momentum to upset voting, then both parties adopt that stance, split the vote, and leave the remainder to be inneffective. The same thing would happen with a third party. Whenever they actually get too powerful, the major parties start adopting planks out of their party platform and it goes back to be small and meaningless.

    184. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure that I agree with Jefe, but I'm curious also. I'm not sure how OWS 'blends.' I suppose it's accepting as long as you're willing to be really angry at conservatives, but in general I feel like it's just as much class warfare now as the Tea Party is. And I had very high hopes for the now hopelessly-sidetracked OWS movement.

    185. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Totenglocke · · Score: 1

      Except it's not that easy these days when the incumbents intentionally rigged the system where you need millions and millions of dollars just to get a chance to go to political debates and have your views heard by the people.

      --
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
    186. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Nimey · · Score: 1

      The point is that it's stupid to claim that the majority of a party are not the real party, ideology be damned. The romantic part of me is /sympathetic/ to the idea - gods know I want the Dems to get some balls and be "real liberals", but realistically...

      You want me to believe it, fine. Get actual "republicans" elected, who aren't hawks or social conservatives. You've got history against you, though; the teabaggers haven't been too successful (not that I believe this was their true goal), and also our broken political system that ends up giving two bad choices in general elections, plus nobodies that people won't vote for because they won't win anyway (self-fulfilling prophecy).

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    187. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Bucky24 · · Score: 1

      Well, isn't it better to elect someone who is "better than the other two choices", then not be able to vote for that someone at all and have to deal with the two other choices who are shitty? Gotta start improving somewhere.

      --
      All the world's a CPU, and all the men and women merely AI agents
    188. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, those were protests? I thought that was a new Fox program.

    189. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by babblefrog · · Score: 1

      Where I live the Tea Party protesters were carrying signs saying "Keep government off my Medicare". It's hard to take that very seriously.

    190. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by bryan1945 · · Score: 2

      Because people and the media are stupid. If you say "conservative" or "liberal" all the other words go in one ear and out the other. I'm a fiscal conservative in the sense that the Fed Gov needs to spend less money (though I have yet to see any plans that really make any sense), but I don't give a hoot on social issues. Gay marriage, abortion, etc. I don't really care because I got my views and what you do isn't hurting me (until you get into the extreme and people start getting hurt and killed).

      I guess I'm your social-liberal/fiscal-conservative guy.

      --
      Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
    191. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by anomrabbit · · Score: 1

      You might want to look up what a merkin is before you use it as an abbreviation again...

    192. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Eightbitgnosis · · Score: 1

      Some protesters are more equal than others

    193. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by chrissandvick · · Score: 0

      Look, it's probably not possible to convince you, but let's try: look at those comments on the page you linked. Look at your comments. Count the number of loaded words.

      Let me help you: Consider why people are using words that provoke an emotional reaction rather than reasoning, why they assume the Other is out to get them.

      Nimey: loaded words? Nihilist? Marxist? Anarchist? They're nouns. There are self-identified marxist, anarchists, and conspiracists who are part and parcel of the Occupy movement. That is simply a fact. That you want to define them away as "loaded" is a weasel way to avoid having to deal with them and with why I posted that link to gateway pundit (which just happened to be the first link in Google to the incident at Occupy Phoenix) in the first place. And really, I don't particularly care about your emotional response, which frankly is your problem.

    194. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Nimey · · Score: 1

      You are biased. One needs only to look at your hyperbolic comments and your signature.

      You've got no credibility, chummy.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    195. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by ukemike · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm told that in the rest of the world Time magazine is still a reputable source of news reporting. Perhaps this will help you understand better. http://www.businessinsider.com/these-time-magazine-covers-explain-why-americans-know-nothing-about-the-world-2011-11

      --
      -- QED
    196. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by antifoidulus · · Score: 2

      They did something similar when Clinton was in office too, their basic plan is to force the democratic president to either cut popular programs, thus costing him a lot of support, or to basically come out and say "I hate your grandchildren". Unfortunately Clinton was a much shrewder politician than Obama is and was able to corral the Republicans, for the most part.

    197. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by nickersonm · · Score: 1

      You would think that the time is right for a social-liberal/fiscal-conservative party to rise up and take the middle ground.

      My understanding is that the Libertarians fit this description.

    198. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1

      That's just the "too much money in politics" argument which both not new and not insurmountable. Entrenched oligarchies have a history of being toppled one way or the other.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    199. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would be largely the libertarian party, and also include folks like Ron Paul, who recognizing that a third party stands a snowball's chance in hell of winning any major election, opt to run with the Republicans. And yea...they're right. One dimensional politics is the way of the US, and I don't see it changing drastically anytime too soon without a major change in our electoral system.

    200. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by ArcherB · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The connection is "social conservatives" are ripe for manipulation because of the emotional nature of the narrow band of issues they really care about: hating gays, making Christianity the national religion and criminalizing abortion.

      Strange. I'm fairly "social conservative" and I don't hate gays or want to Christianity a national religion. For that matter, no laws should be based solely on any religion. Of course, I am against abortion because I don't feel that man should be able to determine when someone is human and when someone is not. When governments are able to start declaring that someone is NOT human, very bad things happen. I'm "socially conservative" because I have children in the house and would like to be able to turn on the TV without hearing and seeing non-stop sex jokes while the channel is set to something other than Nickelodeon. (I also feel that any cable channel should have no rules, but channels over the airwaves....)

      Hmmmm. I guess that means you are either ignorant or a liar. I'll give you the benefit of doubt and assume that you are simply ignorant. That means that you should not be spouting off about things you know nothing about which is especially inexcusable in this information age we live in.

      --
      There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
    201. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Tooke · · Score: 1

      oh my gosh... somebody mod this up!

      --
      Anybody want a peanut?
    202. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by drnb · · Score: 1

      The Tea Party has been quite the thorn in the political establishment.

      Which is why they started as a wing of one of the major political parties, were constantly guided by that party, and ended up giving that party quite a bit of wins in the 2010 elections. Yup, major thorn, that group.

      The tea party's origins are in fiscal conservatism, that is not party centric. Fiscal conservatives exists in both major parties. The tea party heavily criticized the Bush administration and leaders of both parties. The tea party tried to avoid social issues to maintain its fiscal focus and bipartisan nature. Unfortunately it got co-opted. Occupy seems to be going down that same path. When you have a loose knit group with no real central organization you are vulnerable to being co-opted. This was the tea party weakness, and it is even more so the occupy movement weakness. Any large group of people can show up at some late date and claim they are part of the party/movement. Like the radical republicans, like the radical democrat activists and campers.

    203. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by jd · · Score: 1

      No, the OWS includes a number of prominent conservatives. The OWS isn't about individuals and it's an exercise in futility to figure out the demands by deconstructionist approaches. The OWS blends by combining people who are rich and poor, who are left- and right-wing, who are angry at abuse of position (regardless of who is abusing it or how) or who are angry at a lack of status for others (regardless of who or how), so it's all kinds of people with all kinds of competing views. The OWS is classless.

      Yes, the Tea Party is engaged in "Class War" (which is interesting because the whole point of the American Dream is a classless society), which is a divisive action. The OWS, however, is classless. The fringes' complaints confuse the different meanings of "lack of class", but that's their problem. The OWS' blended complaint is that there has traditionally been a conflict of interest between what people can do and what they will do. Their protest is that this conflict of interest is NOT doing for the nation, and that the sole defense of those involved in that conflict of interest is that they're entitled to government welfare at the exclusion of those not involved in that conflict of interest.

      The OWS doesn't stand for - or against - there being any government welfare at all. Individuals might, but the OWS isn't run by individuals, it's its own thing, the individuals merely happen to be there. The OWS doesn't care if all get the welfare currently given to those who exploit the loopholes in the system, if nobody does, or if the system is totally re-engineered to give something in-between, so long as everyone plays by the same rules. That's what the percentages bit is about. Nobody cares what particular 1% is the problem, the problem is that you can even divide the population up by different rulebooks at all.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    204. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by jd · · Score: 1

      The health-care reforms haven't kicked in, for the most part, are being appealed by a lot of States - some of which have overturned a lot of the provisions - and until the SCOTUS issues a decision next year there is essentially no healthcare reform. The fight to get it was vicious enough that almost nothing else got done during that battle and nothing at all has been doable since.

      Even if SCOTUS does hold up the healthcare reform, every Republican standing - to a person - has stated they'll get the bill repealed. In other words, those 2.5 million Americans really don't have anything more than an IOU.

      Yes, Obama put two non-crazy people into SCOTUS, but they're badly outnumbered by crazies on both sides of the political fence. There aught to be minimum sanity requirements at the very least for such a powerful entity, and ideally no person with a politics-driven ideology should be permitted onto it. However, that's not as things are. How things are is that SCOTUS is run by ideologues driven by party loyalty and sponsor loyalty. Doesn't matter how sane a person is going in, they won't stay sane in that kind of toxic environment. How could they? To truly eliminate the two-party deadlock in SCOTUS, SCOTUS as a whole has to be detoxed.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    205. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by jd · · Score: 1

      You can't "site" anything, unless you're planning on building an apartment complex. And you can cite nothing because deconstructionalist arguments don't apply to an entity that cannot be reduced to less than the whole. (Would you care to falsify chemistry on the grounds that quarks don't form covalent bonds? That's basically what you're claiming.)

      No, you're not throwing anything in my face because you're too much of a gibbering idiot to throw anything past those bootlaces of yours you keep tripping over.

      Nor can you find me "countless" videos and pictures, because I'm damn sure I can count them -- and I'm also 99% sure I can establish that such pictures are Agent Provocateurs from the Tea Party and Fox News.

      No, you DO discount it because you don't even know what the argument IS. You're only looking at what you personally want the argument to be and no further.

      I have revised nothing. I state facts, you state fictions and that's all there is to it. I owe you nothing, except maybe a roundhouse kick to that oversized gob of yours.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    206. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by jd · · Score: 1

      Nor do I recall them shooting politicians and children in the head.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    207. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by jd · · Score: 1

      Agreeing or disagreeing doesn't make the person insightful (or a troll) and those who use mod points for the purpose of modding posts up or down based on agenda rather than according to the qualities the moderation is SUPPOSED to be for are violently abusing a system intended to promote dialogue and suppress that which would inhibit it.

      You should be ashamed of yourself.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    208. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Nimey · · Score: 1

      I'm entirely aware that it's a pubic wig. As the kids say, I did it for the lulz.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    209. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Deluded much?

      I swear, it's like Madlibs.

      Just fill in the blank (any blank) with "ACORN," "Obama," "socialism," "George Soros," and "left-wing media." It seems all interchangeable.

      The vast amount of power that some of the loonies ascribe to ACORN is amazing.

    210. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by jd · · Score: 1

      For the rest of you, I'd like to point to the post I'm replying to as an example of Rational, Intelligent, Conservative debating - for the most part. Not sure about the last sentence, but the rest of it is extremely admirable. The statement of facts, the statement of what is personal bias and what is not, a clear, non-inflammatory perspective.

      I don't agree with everything said. Any degree of assumption that humans are the exclusive holders of rights troubles me. You can eliminate the entire "when is a person human" argument by eliminating the requirement that it matters in the first place. No foundation, nothing built on it. I'm also suspect of any argument that says X should be exempt from rules applying to Y when X and Y are functionally identical. I have no objection to logical rules based on logical classifications, but I can see no logic to grouping by implementation of a transport mechanism for the purpose of "safeguarding" viewers when the viewers are probably the last people to know - or even care - what transport mechanism is in use. Content control is entirely valid, but it should be on something a bit more logical.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    211. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by jd · · Score: 1

      Yes, the OWS does offer solutions. Individuals might not, but I repeat, the OWS isn't something you can deconstruct. Your reply solely concerns itself with the deconstructionalist view of the OWS, which means nothing as you can't split a proton and expect the resulting quarks to have the chemistry of the whole. The OWS is classless and ideology-less, by means of being constructive, inclusive and (if anything) far too open to discussion. That is constructionalist.

      The Tea Party offers nothing, it has BLOCKED everything it can (including stuff it agrees with) and it FORBIDS discussion. That is destructive. By being class-based and ideologically pure, it is also being deconstructionalist.

      No, your ability to hold a position of authority or an office in government does NOT result from you volunteering. Neither the Civil Service nor the Elected Service work that way and you know that full well by being there.

      Every 2 years, we have non-stop campaigning and in the in-between years the elected officials are busy propping up their support networks. That isn't functional. That certainly isn't democracy. It's somewhere between an ogliarchy and anarchy. It's crass, it's degenerate and it's often not the ones found lacking who get replaced. Being right rarely makes you popular, being popular rarely makes you right.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    212. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by jd · · Score: 1

      I think it's a bubble sort.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    213. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by DocHoncho · · Score: 1

      Of course, I am against abortion because I don't feel that man should be able to determine when someone is human and when someone is not.

      (Emphasis mine)

      Only one question: Who else is going to do it?

      --
      Celebrity worship is a poor substitute for Deity worship and costs more to boot.
    214. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Bardwick · · Score: 1

      That's republicans, not tea party... Good try though, sometimes folks that don't do thier homework miss that.

    215. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Bardwick · · Score: 2

      Half the country pays no taxes. so yes, it's free as in beer. Go to the emergency room on any given day.. people in there with the sniffles while my daughter with a broken collar bone has to wait two hours. Reasonable price for reasonable service? This is well after the fact that you signed a piece of paper agreeing to $60k in debt in exchange for a diploma. You got your diploma, what are you complaning about? I agree that college tuition is way to high and frankly not worth it. I also have a significant income with zero time in college. Didn't see any protests against colleges. I did see people with Abercrombie clothes, Northface jackets, hitting Facebook and twitter on thier IPADS protesting businesses... OWS really had something in the beginning, then they were drowned out with all the spoiled little bitches. They forgot that everyone is willing to cover thier needs, not thier wants.

    216. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Bardwick · · Score: 1

      I'm confused.. Can you recheck my post and show me where I said which group was doing what? Why did you assume I was talking about OWS on student loans? How do you lower middle class tax rates? You would have to go to zero. Check the forms. $50,000/year 2 kids. ZERO FEDERAL TAX LIABILITY. I'll do you one better, they actually GET A REFUND OF $48. Now, let's go to extremes.. Go ahead, tax the millionairs as suggested.. I'm okay with that. Let's go really rediculous and tax them at 100% of thier total income and take all thier property, you come up with about 700 billion dollars. Now what? You need twice that to break even. Here is a clue that most people miss as well. Companies don't pay taxes, never have, never will. Raise the tax rate on a company, they raise prices to the consumer. Okay, now we've delt with those evil rich people and the evil companies. How should be cover the other 700 billion? Wait, did you actually believe that raising the tax rate on the rich would even the deficit? Really? Have you ever looked at what raising the tax rate to 50% would actually bring in? Do you think that's air your breathing now? And on the subject of Rush.. He's on in the afternoons. I'm at work during that time, don't get a chance to listen. Let me hit on the oil company subsidies... Since you obviously haven't done any homework, let me help you out. Often times those CEO's are sitting in front of congress and have repeatedly stated they no longer need ethenol subsidies. They are perfectly fine with removing any subsidies as long as it's removed from ALL oil companies in the United States. Betcha didn't know that there are hundreds of oil companies, not just three. Democrats want to remove subsidies from SPECIFIC COMPANIES, not the "oil industry". Tell me one thing you NEED that isn't/can't be provided. I would bet all you come up with is WANTS. In that spirit, how would you define spoiled little bitch?

    217. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by danlip · · Score: 1

      The fundamental problem of a 2 party system is it divides everyone into exactly 2 camps, but there is far more than 1 dimension to political views. I think any country with a 2 party system is going to get weird combinations - it might be different combinations, but still weird. And the plurality-takes-all election system in the US means you will always have 2 parties - there have been brief periods of time where we had 3 but it's not stable, so one of them will die off. This is why we need to change the system.

    218. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One group is for smaller, less intrusive government, period.

      And against same-sex marriage. And disbelieving of Obama's US citizenship, despite proof. Oh, and highly approving of the Patriot Act.

      Also completely invisible during the biggest expansion of government in modern times.

      Fucking ninjas.

      There is no proof of Obutthead's alleged US citizenship. His social security card is from a state he's never lived in, the birth certificate is a really poor forgery. Only the blind and mentally infirm haven't realized that.

    219. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      And 300 million Americans who could end up criminals for not paying private companies for insurance. That's "national health care" like a law requiring everyone buy a flashlight from Wal-Mart is "national free light."

    220. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      I think the point was, what murders, robberies, rapes and assaults have the OWSers committed? They are the ones that sat still while being maced in the face by a fat (and thus lazy) cop. And you calling them that won't change what they are, even if lies repeated enough, are taken to be truths.

    221. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Merkin doesn't mean what you think it means.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkin

    222. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Nimey · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Half the country pays no taxes

      That's a brain-dead lie. About half the country pays no federal income tax. They still pay state (and sometimes local) income tax. They still pay sales tax. Property tax. Gasoline tax. Social Security. Medicare. Other taxes.

      Get your facts straight, else you won't be taken seriously.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    223. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by AK+Marc · · Score: 4, Interesting

      OWS: We want the "rich" (anyone who makes more than we do) to pay more taxes so the government can give us free stuff! Only evil people are rich (except for the rich politicians and other rich political players on *our* side...that's *different*!)! And if we don't get what we demand despite being a voting minority, we'll use violence (*this* is what democracy looks like!!!1!!one) to achieve our goals.

      OWS: We want the top 1% to stop passing laws benefitting only themselves, killing the middle class. We want the trillions of dollars of subsidies to Haliburton, Schlumberger, Corn, Oil, and such to stop. That's our inheritance you are pissing away, leaving us nothing but debt (not just student loans, but national debt).

      TEA Party: We want government to stop taxing us so much and wasting so much of the taxes they take from us, and to actually start obeying the laws and the limitations on government power that's in the Constitution.

      Teabaggers: We want bigger government to look over our shoulders, tell us who can marry whom, push the message of God and Jesus on the heathens in the Middle East and cut taxes to not pay for all that and the subsidies to run up a debt I'll never pay.

      If you are going to make up what you like, we can play the same game.

    224. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by AK+Marc · · Score: 0

      They named themselves teabaggers. That I don't accept their retroactive changing of history won't change it (despite what the teabaggers are doing to textbooks).

    225. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by euroq · · Score: 1

      The real answer is that it's a two-party winner-takes-all system. It is mathematically improbable that a third party can simply bubble up, even if 50% would agree with it, due to the winner-takes-all arrangement.

      --
      Just because the U.S. is a republic does not mean it is not a democracy. Democracy/republic are not mutually exclusive.
    226. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by pclminion · · Score: 1

      Half the country pays no taxes. so yes, it's free as in beer. Go to the emergency room on any given day.. people in there with the sniffles while my daughter with a broken collar bone has to wait two hours.

      Yes, health care is pretty messed up. If it weren't why would it be part of the protests? At any rate, why are you trying to pin this topic on OWS, anyway? Health care has been an issue since Obama came in office.

      You got your diploma, what are you complaning about?

      Nothing. I think you missed my point.

    227. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      Then why don't all of the 'true' Republicans out there vote out all of the 'fake' Republicans YOU ALL VOTED INTO OFFICE!
      Because the fake republicans are preferable to the genuine democrats.
      I've always said, I hate the Republicans because they tell me they will do things that sound good to me, but when elected they don't. Whereas I hate Democrats because they tell me they will do things that sound bad to me, and when elected they do.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    228. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by BlueStrat · · Score: 2

      Correct me if I'm wrong, but only one of the movements actually had people bringing guns to the rallies, and it wasn't OWS.

      Yes, a few carried firearms. Legally. Peacefully. Responsibly. As is their Constitutional right. I carry a firearm every day. Many, probably far more than you think, do. Without anyone getting hurt or arrested.

      How many TEA Party protesters were arrested again? How many people were shot?

      Oh yeah, none & none. You have no point.

      OWS didn't even *need* guns to become violent. Judging by their behavior so far, it's probably a very, very good thing for everybody's safety that they generally don't believe in carrying firearms.

      Violence and hatred comes from men, not inanimate tools.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    229. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The tea party (grass hopper generation) has socialized medicine and socialized retirement. Their solution for paying for all of this is to have the younger generations pay for them and then close the door behind them. You received a college education for practically nothing, and immediately after receiving it decided you didnt want to pay for anyone else to get one. They need to 'pay their own way", when you didn't pay yours. You won't pay for public schools because that means increased property taxes, and well, fuck them. The issue is the baby boomers have been told they are the "specialist" generation ever and they won't get the hell out of the way. Every policy, foreign and domestic, from the federal level to the city level, needs to in some way benefit them. If it benefits any other group, well, that's communism and those guys are whiners.

      You can't say to a generation "goto college or flip burgers", then they do go to college, pay their own way, and then you say, "well, flip burgers anyway. And pay for my retirement. And pay for my wars. And pay for my health care. And you get nothing. Oh, and get me fries".

      All of this bullshit is due to everyone in your generation thinking you're a fucking island. You want some fucked up world view where the benefit of an education is only to the individual, so make the individual pay. Oh, and all those guys who didn't get one and then turned to crime, well, we should be allowed to shoot them. I need a gun to defend myself now because I created a huge income gap between the haves and have nots. And while you were busy destroying the entire infrastructure your parents built, you decided Samsung and Sony need a say in elections. Please welcome the next President of the United States, brought to you by Mitsubishi.

      You guys don't have a clue how to govern, but you all have opinions on how it should be and your will be done. You DEMAND small government so you can replace biology texts books with passages from genesis. Yes, let's ask the bronze age what it thinks about biology and in general, science. You all live in some fantasy world where christians are persecuted and you're all millionaires. In reality you are poletarian slaves and oppressors. You force your value systems on everyone and everything or else you'll "learn them". You single handedly created one of the most conservative supreme courts in recent member, shifted the entire center to the right, raise income inequality, bankrupted the country with two never ending wars, destroyed the education system by not deciding to pay for it and constantly forcing christian mythology on it. ::takes a breath::

      My proof for all this? You nominate people for the highest office in the land who think the question, "What do you read", is a gotcha question. YOUR GENERATION CAN'T EVEN READ. OMFG. WHY DO YOU EVEN OPEN YOUR MOUTH, WHY AREN'T YOU ASHAMED. Whoever gets the republican nomination wont even know how the federal government is organized.

      Final thought:

      Guess who will write the history books when you're all dead.

    230. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      True, Ron Paul is getting shafted here. I really like Newt Gingrich. He's the most informed candidate and perhaps has the highest IQ of them all. Politicians are wise to not debate him. He'll crush them with his historical knowledge. Unfortunately, the same reason I like him is the exact same reason I can't vote for him. He's a renegade just like John McCain, but worse. Unlike McCain that did most of his flip-flopping on nuance, Newt did his purely for political reasons. He's a 'playa'. But the real nail in the coffin is that he supports the Patriot Act. He knows all too well about government bloat and the internal yearning for government agencies to grow and fester uncontested. I know that he's extremely intelligent. So why in the hell would he support an agency that when projected for growth in power and influence over time, we will soon get what amounts to the German Stasi?

      I know many fellow blue-blooded Republicans that don't like these live debates in which candidates "tear each other apart" on national TV, but I think this is the most healthy process of our democracy. We need the skeletons out of the closet and laundry out in the breeze. So today, I haven't made up my mind who I'm going to vote for - yet. But one thing is for sure. If anyone on either side slings mud with baseless accusations, you're only mudding the water for the American public to make an informed decision. But that's exactly the point isn't? For political gain. So when I see politicians fling poo instead of debating, they instantly go on my list of people not to vote for .

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    231. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Protestantism (american protestantism) believes that whether or not you go to heaven is predetermined. So how can you tell if you are going to heaven? Well, how much money you have! If god loves you, why would he punish you on earth? Well, if everyone does well, how the fuck can we tell who is going to heaven now!? I NEED TO KNOW!!!111!!

      Fuck the poor.

    232. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by euroq · · Score: 1

      What Dishevel said was not "batcrap crazy"... calm down, breath, and read it again.

      --
      Just because the U.S. is a republic does not mean it is not a democracy. Democracy/republic are not mutually exclusive.
    233. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      Hey, nice name calling.

      "Name calling"? WTF!?!?

      Whom did I call what in my post? Or are you lacking any logical points or issues of fact to post in opposition, and must resort to a straw-man argument?

      If you had an argument, I'm confident you'd have used that instead of going for ad homs, so I'm going to feel free to ignore you now.

      That's OK. I understand you must attempt to save face. Whatever it takes to make you feel better about yourself, I guess. I don't blame you, though. With your poor grasp on the facts and little ability to express a cogent position, I'd avoid arguing with me, too.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    234. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I hate to say it as I pretty much loathe organized religion of any type, but I kind of admire what they did....."

      "I'm not member of any organized religion. I'm a Methodist." -- Will Rogers

    235. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by pokechop · · Score: 1

      Not really. There's a distinction between rational protesting for and irrational protesting against. 2011 has seen a lot of rational, constructive protesting. The Tea Party was all about irrational, destructive rabble-rousing.

      OWS: We want the "rich" (anyone who makes more than we do) to pay more taxes so the government can give us free stuff! Only evil people are rich (except for the rich politicians and other rich political players on *our* side...that's *different*!)! And if we don't get what we demand despite being a voting minority, we'll use violence (*this* is what democracy looks like!!!1!!one) to achieve our goals.

      TEA Party: We want government to stop taxing us so much and wasting so much of the taxes they take from us, and to actually start obeying the laws and the limitations on government power that's in the Constitution.

      You were saying something about irrationality and destructive rabble-rousing? I must have missed the TEA Party riots, arrests, violence & assaults, drug dealing/use, rapes, property destruction, and the massive clean-ups needed like that which occur/occurred at OWS protests.

      Strat

      What crap. I, for one, didn't miss the assholes showing up at rallies with loaded guns (in order to, what? intimidate the President?), or spitting on members of Congress, or shouting people down, or brandishing racist hatespeech &c. Teatards all.

      --
      xoviquom, ogdeuns
    236. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by pokechop · · Score: 1

      Dude, you are completely full of shit. Are you scared of OWS because they have long hair?

      --
      xoviquom, ogdeuns
    237. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by pokechop · · Score: 1

      I'd rather a little poo, as opposed to racist ideologues trying to drive a President out of office because he's black. Insert here: lyrics from "Society Pages" by Zappa.

      --
      xoviquom, ogdeuns
    238. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The tea party was a bunch of well paid upper middle class people with plenty. Wanting more for themselves and less for anyone else.

      Fuck them.

      The protests this year are a bunch of in debt broke mofos wanting some justice and fairness for everyone.

    239. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      > Want to get modded down? Promote liberty, personal
      > responsibility, or sound economic policy.

      ... or just act like a complete prick.

      you might want to try oscam's razor on that one ...

    240. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you're just lumping all the right wing concepts into one pot and calling it the Tea Party. It would be like calling all democrats homosexuals. Also, a true conservative republican wouldn't approve at all of the Patriot Act, for exactly the same reason they oppose Obamacare.

      Only on slashdot does the "No True Scotsman" fallacy garner a +5 Insightful rating.

    241. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, a true conservative republican wouldn't approve at all of the Patriot Act

      I invite you to leave your house and go talk to some of them. You might be surprised.

      I talk to a large meeting hall full of conservatives every week. None I've met were happy with the Patriot Act. Most consider GWB a Progressive. Which he, by his actions, proved himself to be.

    242. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well I for one look forward to continuing to read your posts here. If I may offer a small token of advice though: comments similar to the GP's aren't worth your time in correcting. The GP is obviously a dumb ass to any intelligent reader. Let his own stupidity stand on its own (lack of) merit, rather than call attention to it. I would have never even known this moron existed were it not for your post.

    243. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Delusional troll is delusional.

    244. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.createdebate.com/debate/show/Tea_Party_VS_OWS

      Take the fight there and defend your communist pride! Revolution is at hand!

    245. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice link. But even here "in the rest of the world" (UK), I certainly don't see Time considered as "a reputable source of news reporting". (Warning: proof by personal anecdote!)

      For news reporting which isn't written for a sixth-grade reading level, and which assumes an intelligent if perhaps uninformed reader, try The Economist. Time is for children.

    246. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      tea partiers drive their suv's home. the egypt, tunisia etc protesters didn't - they stayed until something happened.

      Unfortunately that is the reality of protest now - to have any effect you have must give up working and having a life in order to occupy some highly visible central place indefinitely and while being attacked by the police/army. If you can do it for at least six months you might have a chance.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    247. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Digital+Vomit · · Score: 1

      For someone with so much to say about the OWS protestors, you are remarkably misinformed. Stunningly so, in fact. So much so that one has to wonder if you're not a plant (and I don't mean in the vegetative sense).

      --
      Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.
    248. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Let's go really rediculous and tax them at 100% of thier total income and take all thier property, you come up with about 700 billion dollars. Now what? You need twice that to break even.

      Economies can grow or shrink. Grow the economy and you grow the tax base, and the deficit takes care of itself.

      Companies don't pay taxes, never have, never will. Raise the tax rate on a company, they raise prices to the consumer.

      They raise prices, they lose business. With a corporate tax I can pay Chevy's tax, or Ford's tax, or not buy a car at all and not pay the tax; it's my choice. Tax me directly and I have no choice. If Ford passes 100% of the taxes on to the consumer, and Chevy passes 75% on and takes the rest from dividends, Chevy has an advantage. To a corporation, taxes are just another cost of diong business, no different than lawyers, accountants, and machinery.

      Wait, did you actually believe that raising the tax rate on the rich would even the deficit?

      That tired old argumant is stupid. Don't raise taxes on the rich because it won't cure the deficit? Fine, my taxes won't either, how about I just don't have to pay them? It doesn't MATTER if raising taxes on the rich will solve the deficit, IT'S A START IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. The rich have been paying far too little tax for far too long, which is one reason the deficit is so bad. Federal taxes are lower than any time since the Truman administration. Greedy selfish motherfuckers are NOT paying their share.

      Democrats want to remove subsidies from SPECIFIC COMPANIES, not the "oil industry".

      Then they're wrong. Nobody in the oil industry should be getting a subsidy

      Tell me one thing you NEED that isn't/can't be provided.

      I'm doing fine, but many I know are hurting badly, lacking food, even homes. The spoiled little bitches on Wall Street and Washington don't give a rat's ass about them. I do.

    249. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      Agreeing or disagreeing doesn't make the person insightful (or a troll) and those who use mod points for the purpose of modding posts up or down based on agenda rather than according to the qualities the moderation is SUPPOSED to be for are violently abusing a system intended to promote dialogue and suppress that which would inhibit it.

      I have read this often here, but why must all Slashdot readers do the bidding of Slashdot creators (who have themselves left Slashdot)? Slashdot readers can use the moderation system any which way we like - nothing to be ashamed of here.

      PS3 is SUPPOSED to be to play games from Sony and give money to Sony, so a person who runs Apache server on his PS3 using OtherOS should be ashamed of himself? Aren't you a tool?

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    250. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by AdamJS · · Score: 1

      Haha, what?
      They're a puppet GOP group. The thorn they have been is the same one as the birthers; a random proxy issue used to yell at the Democrats/Obama for the sake of yelling.

    251. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by AdamJS · · Score: 1

      Koch Bros. are just an example of the original complainant target though. That is, the rich people spiting the country that gave them their capabilities for the sake of a few more dollars today rather than long term growth.

    252. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Nimey · · Score: 2

      Health care's been an issue since forever, long before the current occupant was elected.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    253. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Correction, one party with two names. It's not like they'll actually do anything different. Sure, they'll sell a different story come around election time, but no matter who's elected, it returns to business as usual.

    254. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Strawser · · Score: 1

      You would think that the time is right for a social-liberal/fiscal-conservative party to rise up and take the middle ground.

      That's basically what the Libertarian Party is, or at least is supposed to be, but our system doesn't really allow for a 3rd party to make any progress. They can't get on the ballots in every state, they usually can't get into televised debates, and, since everyone knows that either a Democrat or a Republican is going to win, they chose what they believe to be the lesser of the two evils. The libertarians who value social freedom higher will vote for a Democrat, and the ones who value laissez faire economics higher will vote for Republicans, since they know there's not a chance in Hell that the LP is going to win, in the end.

      --
      The louder he talked of his honour, the faster we counted our spoons. -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
    255. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Does anyone still subscribe to Time? I thought it had become another vanity publishing rag like Newsweek, with a few thousand copies made each month just for the ego of the publishers and the few doctors offices who hadn't bothered to cancel their subscriptions.

      Doctor offices.

      Doctors' offices. The offices of doctors.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    256. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Fiscal conservative is just a polite term for an extreme right wing, small government, low tax, no benefits view of the world. And most extreme right wingers are also socially conservative, however much they have to pretend they approve of homosexual marriage, women's rights or whatever.

      Broadly speaking extreme right wingers are about power being concentrated amongst the few rather than the majority, whether economically or socially.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    257. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      You would think that the time is right for a social-liberal/fiscal-conservative party to rise up and take the middle ground.

      My understanding is that the Libertarians fit this description.

      If yu think Libertarians are the middle grond, God help you.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    258. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1

      Shame they didn't vote their convictions then. Or even voice them until he left.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    259. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1

      Not even close, but thanks for playing.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    260. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      read What's the Matter with Kansas, this ground covered masterfully by Thomas Frank

    261. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by doconnor · · Score: 1

      Apparently total ignorance about what people who disagree with you are saying is also what the tea party is about.

    262. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd like to see a Party that has no agenda other than "We will do whatever it takes to most efficiently mitigate a problem without concern what ideological banner that solution falls under, and we will not get lost in an endless and fruitless quest for perfection that cannot exist."

      Bonus points for: "If government involvement will clearly make things worse, or fails to make reasonable improvements after a predetermines trial period, we will consider not doing anything until the situation changes or new resources/concepts justify revisiting the issue."

      In this country that is a liberal party. Handing the gov't any social responsibility goes against conservative ideology because of the potential intrusion into people's lives. FWIW I agree with you, but the cost-benefit wonk is not the candidate that gets elected to run on either side of the aisle. It's the candidate that can ram the most legislation through along ideological lines.

    263. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Usually this involves getting rid of the government programs they don't like such as welfare, the EPA, Department of Education, etc. None of them seem to realize that we could get rid of all of our branches of the government and stop paying any government salaries, but until you cut Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the military, and the interest on our debt, that wouldn't even balance the budget.

      So, you say that the only way to balance the federal budget is to eliminate the majority of agencies that were never supposed to be dealt with on a federal level by the government? The only agencies/programs I saw there in your lists that are actually supposed to be under the purview of the federal government are the military, and maybe the EPA. All of the others are beyond the power that the federal government is supposed to have (according to the US Constitution), and eliminating them at a federal level, and having the states deal with them as they see fit, will eliminate the majority of the cost at a federal level. This way, a guy in New York isn't forced (through federal taxes) to pay his part of some lady in California's medical bills (through Medicare/Medicaid).

      Then you ask how they plan to do that and the crazy comes out.

      It seems that your definition of "crazy" is that the people who see a path to fixing the problems simply "aren't going far enough" in their planned changes. When "the crazy" involves eliminating only a few of the more recent and costly programs on a federal level at a time, to let the system adjust over time instead of just dumping everything all at once, and the overall plan is to return the federal level of government control to what it's supposed to be (according to the Constitution), then you have a non-standard definition of "crazy."

      If the majority of the population agree that the federal government really should be in control of a certain aspect that it isn't explicitly allowed, then the Constitution should be ammended to explicitly grant that power to the government, instead of just ignoring the Constitution and deeming it to be allowed.

    264. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      If you're talking about the guy in Arizona, I don't think you can lump him in with the other Tea Partiers. He was a very disturbed individual, who would have snapped at a different point in time just as easily.

    265. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      Blah blah blah, I'm going to ignore the fact that one protest had many people carrying tools of violence and brandishing them menacingly, yet call the other protest violent.

      Yeah, that really makes sense.

    266. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      Nope, sorry. The Tea Party was brought up as a wing of the Republican Party, as a way to try and capture anger with government, despite the fact that they were government.

    267. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      The health care law provided for no health care (just subsidies for some of the most profitable companies on the planet) and made criminals out of millions of Americans. I want socialized medicine, but I'd rather have nothing than the shit that got passed, creating subsidies for the rich and punishing the poor.

    268. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is dealing with the FEDERAL government, not the state ones. Social Security and Medicare is not a state- or local-level tax. Gasoline taxes are both on a federal and state level, and property taxes don't go beyond a local level. So your intentional conflating of the various types of taxes when the main thrust of the conversation has been about things on a federal level is a poor attempt at "proving" that you're correct by injecting additional noise.

    269. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit you liar.

      a kid was shot in the head in california. murder charges filed this week and they all camped at the occupy.

      further, raids on those camps found many many weapons. google and you can find reports of many crimes and weapons at many of the camps

      all the lies and disinformation you put out on occupy puts you on the same playing field as the nazi's. pure 100% propaganda!

    270. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And you obviously don't care what others say if it disagrees with your viewpoint, and it's painfully plain to see. So you can complain all you want about the dividers (of which you obviously are one), and you can say that they all need to shut up and let you speak, and you can push the idea of your personal superiority beyond all of those you see as being lesser than yourself, but since you're doing that and caliming that you're not, then you should really follow your own advice and listen, instead of simply speaking as loudly as you can.

    271. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      The Tea Party isn't actually protesting anything. They seem to be desperately trying to cling to the status quo in which they've found themselves to be so comfortable.

      "Health care for me, not for anyone else"

      "No new taxes ... for me"

      etc, etc.

      See the difference? They're trying to preserve their own position, not trying to actively change things. So, no, they're not protestors.

      I'm ... not sure you've actually been paying attention to the tea party protests. Are you mistaking them for the Republicans?

    272. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Ah, then the 1% of this country should be happy with what the 1% are making in, say, Somalia? After all, it goes both ways.

      I have the feeling the 1% in Somalia is doing quite well. All the aid that pours into that country goes somewhere (and hint: it's not the 99%ers of Somalia). Anarchy works very well for those with the resources to hold everyone else down.

    273. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You realize whose fault that is, right? Democrats wanted a public option to solve your issue, and the majority of the public polled in favor. Republicans screamed socialism and it was removed, much to the disdain of a majority of the public.

    274. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1

      and made criminals out of millions of Americans.

      Wrong.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    275. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by jd · · Score: 1

      If a pragmatic centrist is a communist in American eyes, then all hope of rational discussion is lost.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    276. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by jd · · Score: 1

      Sorry, you can only have so many "one bad apple in the barrel" before the barrel has to be deemed the problem and not the apple.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    277. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by T+Murphy · · Score: 1

      (somewhat simplified, idealistic description of the "other side")

      Wrong. (Biased caricature of "other side").

      (Biased caricature of "my side")

      Wrong. (Insult for using biased caricature of "my side"). (More biased caricature of "other side").

      How was this modded up?

    278. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Yes, and that's the fault of the Democrats. They has the numbers in both houses and the Predisency to pass it through over Republican objections. So what did they do? neuter the legislation and were still opposed by the Republicans. I blame the Democrats, as they are the ones who bear 100% of the blame for what passed.

    279. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      So you are saying it is legal to have no health insurance of any kind? That's not my understanding of how it works. Can you please explain how so many made that same error if it is clearly wrong?

    280. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How was this modded up?

      Probably have something to do with the other stuff that's contained within the post besides the caricatures

      Throwing caricatures around alone is not insightful, but putting forth an argument along with caricatures makes it eligible to be modded as insightful

      This is true even when those arguments can be debated. I mean, if you want to, you can debate him on whether EPA, FAA, department of energy and all those departments are necessary. But the fact that he's willing to put forth an argument puts him above simply throwing caricatures and insults around.

      If you do a good job arguing against his points, you yourself may get modded insightful. For that to happen you probably have to do more than just ask how did the other guy got modded insightful.

    281. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1

      No. You said:

      and made criminals out of millions of Americans.

      Since I'm not seeing a meteoric rise in court actions and/or incarceration rates, you are quite simply wrong.

      Now, a question for you: Do you have car insurance?

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    282. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      brandishing them menacingly

      {citation needed}

      In other words, "pics or it didn't happen".

      I'm going to ignore the fact...

      Well, duh! That's pretty much all you've done this entire thread, ignore facts! I'm wondering if you're getting enough oxygen through that extremely strong reality-distortion field.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    283. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1
      You apparently don't know the definition of "criminal" and thought I meant "convict" otherwise, citing incarceration rates is as useful a metric as the number of people dying their hair blonde.

      You didn't actually address the point of whether it is or is not a crime to not have health insurance, so I'll take that as an admission that you know you are wrong and I'm right, but that you don't like being wrong, so you'll continue to argue until I give up pointing out you are 100% provably wrong.

      Now, a question for you: Do you have car insurance?

      Yes. Ooo, see how easy it is to answer a question directly without lying? You should try it sometime.

    284. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1

      so I'll take that as an admission that you know you are wrong and I'm right, but that you don't like being wrong

      No. Actually I was parsing your shitty use of tenses and you missed it. Oh well.

      Yes

      Good. Could you wail and gnash your teeth about that then? Pretty please?

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    285. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      The question is about what is a "protest". If you show up at somone else's meeting, say "we are better than you" and walk out, is that a "protest" or is picketing something until change happens a "protest" (or both, or neither).

    286. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since when is asking for less corporate influence in politics equal to "demanding more free shit"?

    287. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by T+Murphy · · Score: 1

      My point was that he's accusing the other guy of doing exactly what he's doing. Whether they're valid points or not I'm trying to draw attention (faceciously) to the blind "my side is all right your side is all wrong" back-and-forth we are getting in this "discussion". I don't want to get mired in this OWS/TP debate (I have agreements and issues with both sides), but I would like to see people debate more honestly and rationally, hence my post that didn't take sides and generically applies to many posts on either side of this debate.

    288. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by jd · · Score: 1

      Abuse is abuse is abuse, whether you think the abuse is acceptable or not. If abuse turns out to be "justifiable", it's still abuse. Doesn't change what it is. Only a fool blinds themselves to the reality of what they do in order to excuse it.

      The difference between that which IS truly justified and that which is merely excused by the abuser is that the former isn't done under pretense, is fairly and honestly open to scrutiny and is decided by someone OTHER than the abuser. The latter, your kind, is a pathetic attempt to justify that which is wrong by pointing to that which has vague similarities only if you don't actually bother looking at it. You might notice that those who follow the former path make no bones about being "Grey Hats" or sometimes even "Black Hats". They NEVER claim to be "White Hats", as you do.

      True justification for abuse is rare, far far rarer than you imagine - or, at least, want the rest of us to imagine. Your drivel either demonstrates a mental incapacity to understand the difference between ethical misuse and unethical misuse, or the desire to present yourself as a raving lunatic. Hard to tell. Either way, you're mad.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    289. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1
      "Criminal: A person who has committed a crime."

      The law made criminals out of millions of people. There is no "shitty use of tenses" in that I see. Since I was not in error, your subtle attack on a non-error went misunderstood.

      Could you wail and gnash your teeth about that then? Pretty please?

      Why? They are not comparable.

    290. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1

      subtle attack

      Uhhhh, thanks! I think.

      They are not comparable.

      How so?

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    291. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by yarbo · · Score: 1

      Reinstate Glass-Steagal act, repeal the Citizens United verdict and eliminate the Bush era tax cuts and veto NDAA and see if you still have over a million protesters. Some local groups will stick around, particularly the universities, but as a national movement, it'll be all but over.
      I don't think it's unreasonable to link OWS and the Middle East. Protesters marched in Tahrir square on behalf of Oakland.
      Disclosure: I live in Oakland and have spent a lot of time with Occupy Oakland and Occupy SF and I've camped at Occupy Oakland.

    292. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      How are a car and a flower not comperable? Well, one is alive and the other is not. One smells like a flower, the other smells of burned rubber and oil. I could go on for days on how they are dissimilar. But how are they alike would be a much simpler answer. "They aren't." The same is true of car insurance and mandatory health insurance. Further, you asked me about *my* car insurance, which isn't mandatory here (as opposed to the more general "what about mandatory car insurance"), so *my* car insurance (not mandatory, but I have anyway) vs mandatory health insurance (which I may or may not be personally required to have, I'm not actually sure, as the law wasn't written to be read by anyone other than judges, and the summaries on it are usually party biased to the effect of lying so I don't ever get usable information from it) are much less related than I think you were aiming for, again you were trying to be cutsey by not actually saying what you meant, which leaves you misunderstood repeatedly, yet you continue..

      I can see where you are going with it (again, why your subtle jab at a non-error was missed, because you are not subtle), but feel free to make your point, rather than dancing around it.

    293. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by unitron · · Score: 1

      "Tea party is for the 1% and the 1% only, and anyone in the 99% who support them are incredibly stupid."

      And since practically everybody in the Tea Party (at least at the beginning, right after Santelli's rant) is in the 99%...

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    294. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      If abuse turns out to be "justifiable", it's still abuse

      But it is nothing to be ashamed of. I bought a hammer and use it as paper weight. Obviously an abuse of the instrument, as a hammer is not SUPPOSED to be used as a paper weight. But I am not ashamed of it and I would rather call the person mad who expects me to be ashamed of using a hammer as a paper weight.

      The difference between that which IS truly justified and that which is merely excused by the abuser is that the former isn't done under pretense, is fairly and honestly open to scrutiny and is decided by someone OTHER than the abuser.

      So you seek approval from your "betters"? See if this helps. You are welcome.

      pointing to that which has vague similarities

      Yet you are unable to point out the flaw in my analogy.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    295. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Indeed. Lots of stupid people out there.

    296. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by drnb · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but you are referring to when the Tea Party became big after it was co-opted, not when it was created.

    297. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by johnlcallaway · · Score: 1

      So .. you want to eliminate the tax cuts I currently enjoy, along with lots of middle class people. Ok .. I support that as long as it's 'all or nothing'. None of this "Let's demonize a group that is a minority and take all of their money be selecting an arbitrary 'how much is too much' limit" mentality that the Obama administration and OWS seem to have.

      You can't 'repeal' a court decision, although I personally don't have an issue with keeping ALL organized groups from promoting their political views, including Ben and Jerry's, Sierra Club, UAW, PETA, and Greenpeace. Good luck with that one....

      And a veto of NDAA would end our military. That's just ignorant or naive. If you mean the part where the military can hold US citizens, well that's a difficult one. If a US citizen becomes a member of the Taliban, and gives over military secrets, then he should be tried for treason in a military court. But, on the other hand, blowing up a building doesn't necessarily mean someone is 'at war' with the United States. I don't know of a good way to allow one but make sure it's not over used. Maybe you can come up with a solution instead of just throwing everything out.

      Oh .. I see now why you identify with the OWS, naive and ignorant statements that have no real value when applied to the real world but sound great when repeated by a bunch of sheeple over and over again. The fact is, they have not risked their lives to do jack squat, have not rebelled against the government, and basically were irrelevant about two days before they showed up. They do not deserve any comparison to protestors who risked their lives to bring about government change and should all go home to their mom's basement and get a job.

      --
      I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
    298. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Black or White
      Coke or Pepsi
      Democrat or Republican

      Sadly its human nature to simplify things as much as is possible. Rather than picking between four choices, you need only pick between two choices. To your comment, a lot of folks on Slashdot fall under the "Libertarian" mindset, the soical-liberal/fiscal-conservative party. Rising up requires a strong leader to be able to do so, and the right combination of circumstances; the combination of both has yet to happen.

    299. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Reservoir+Penguin · · Score: 1

      I see communists and socialist sympathizers are out in force today. Tough luck, you will never get any of this and you will not get to turn America into another social-democratic hell-hole like Norway.

      And your sob story just screams masochist, you could've paid you student loans in god forbid 3-4 years and saved yourself the trouble of living like a miser with you parents.

      --
      US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil
    300. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by Reservoir+Penguin · · Score: 1

      If anything *real* hard science, like math and physics and so on is extremely *conservative*. It takes decades for a new idea to becomes an established hypothesis and even longer to be recognized something worthy of a Nobel prize.

      --
      US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil
    301. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by yarbo · · Score: 1

      I currently enjoy the tax cuts too, but that doesn't make them good for the country.

      I'm sorry, in my haste I should have re-written my statement as amend the constitution to reverse the effects of the Citizens United ruling.

      I'm not sure how you think a civilian is going to end up with military secrets to give to the Taliban, but they should not be held indefinitely without a trial. If there is evidence of them breaking the law, then hold a trial. The procedures we already had in place were sufficient. 9/11 could have been prevented based on what we already knew and could legally act on. A veto would force the authors to amend and resubmit without the objectionable provision.

      By being at Occupy Oakland, I have put my life in danger. Scott Olsen could easily have been killed, instead he had to have brain surgery and talks with a stutter, for example.

      I have two jobs, for the record.

    302. Re:What about the Tea Party Movement? by pclminion · · Score: 1

      It wasn't a sob story dude -- I was using myself as an example of a person who had it relatively easy, and yet sympathizes with those less fortunate. Clearly I made a mistake in using the word "miserable" to describe my experience, it is obviously distracting from my actual point.

  3. Not a Person by Herkum01 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Maybe the important thing is that a idea is the driver for change, no just an individual.

    It is much harder for the daily news media to sell an idea than it is sell an individual being the center of everything.

    1. Re:Not a Person by timeOday · · Score: 1

      It is much harder for the daily news media to sell an idea than it is sell an individual being the center of everything.

      That's what's so interesting about the recent wave of protests themselves, they're so leaderless - not only the protests, but the movements themselves. Where's the strongman (or even an anti-strongman like Ghandi)? Is this because technology has reduced the need for a single mouthpiece? Is it because everybody is discontented but doesn't what to do about it, so every specific proposal sounds bad?

    2. Re:Not a Person by FredFredrickson · · Score: 1

      " Is it because everybody is discontented but doesn't what to do about it,"

      This. If you look at these protesters for the 99%, they don't even really all agree on their goals.

      --
      Belief? Hope? Preference?The Existential Vortex
    3. Re:Not a Person by timeOday · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The Occupy movement is united in the belief that the distribution of wealth is too skewed towards the top. Beyond that (including how to fix the problem), I agree. But it's not just them. Look at Egypt, they toppled their govt, but there is no apparent replacement. Same with Libya. There is no George Washington apparent. I truly hope they come out of this better than they went in.

    4. Re:Not a Person by jd · · Score: 1

      That, in itself, gives the lie to the notion that individuals are the be-all and end-all of civilization. These protests are cohesive, identifiable entities, but they are NOT run by individuals, guided by individuals or presented by individuals. Try to deconstruct them to individuals and you find nothing. Yet the protests exist, they do actually have a function and they have a definite goal -- even though not a single individual within them can tell you what that goal actually is. The individual in these protests is a cell in a body greater than the individual and just like the cells in the human body, the cell is not the guide, the presenter or the decider.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    5. Re:Not a Person by Captain+Hook · · Score: 2

      That's what's so interesting about the recent wave of protests themselves, they're so leaderless - not only the protests, but the movements themselves.

      I think it's a reaction to the normal police method to distrupt protests by going after the leaders.

      If you have a single point of failure in the form of a small core group who are organising (not necessarily the leaders of an event) the police can come along and arrest that core, the entire event fails, even if there are still plenty of people who feel strongly enough about the issue and it takes too long to draw up more plans with any secondary group of leaders who might step up after the first set are removed from the group.

      It also presents a much strong front against disruption in general by the police because there are no 'high value' arrest targets, the only way to stop it is mass arrest/evictions and that never looks good on the news report.

      Occupying an area is about as much as you can do without more significant organisation and planning.

      I think leaderless protest got it's roots in Critical Mass cycle events (at least that was the first time I saw leaderless protest in effective action here in the UK).

      --
      These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
    6. Re:Not a Person by Dishevel · · Score: 1

      Not to worry. The Muslim Brotherhood is there to fill in the gap.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    7. Re:Not a Person by slew · · Score: 2

      ... There is no George Washington apparent...

      Sometimes great leaders are drafted from the ranks, and George Washington was one of those. Essentially he was drafted out of retirement to gain fame and respect during the war. He was living a rather comfortable aristocratic (1%) life in semi-retirement when he took up the cause of the american revolution.

      One of the main problems with the recent arab-spring "protest" movements is that in many respects, it happened too fast. There was no time for anyone to prove their worthiness (so to speak), by demonstrating their commitment to "the cause" over any extended period of time to gain a base of political power. This leaves a dangerous power vaccuum where a charismatic (power-seeking) leader, rather than a leader that has a deep commitment to a movement (and are vetted/drafted from among the ranks) can hijack political power for their own narcissitic purposes...

      Today the arab spring movements seem to be more similar to the a "Bourgeoisie" revolutions of the past (emerging middle/upper class) say like the american revolution, french revolution or the even the english revolution. Basically, they are overthrowing a monarchy (basically a dictatorship) and since there are people with a vested economic state in the smooth outcome, there is some pressure to make the transition an improvement for the middle/upper class. That may or may not be great for people on the bottom of the economic or political totem poll. This is unlike a 99% revolution (say like some of the communist revolutions of the past), where major economic upheaval meant that the outcome was basically rolling the dice.

      On the other hand, the french revolution is a potential example of how rocky the road to normalcy may be. Perhaps it could be more like South Africa, but as noted, there doesn't seem to be a George Washington or Nelson Mandela to guide the transition.

    8. Re:Not a Person by samkass · · Score: 1

      I think the person Time should have picked was Mohamed Bouazizi if they wanted to honor "The Protester". I think he was the spark in the tinder box around the world this year... forgive the metaphor...

      --
      E pluribus unum
    9. Re:Not a Person by MonsterTrimble · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why is everyone so scared of the probability of an Islamic based party being democratically elected without fraud in the middle east? We should be embracing the fact it's democratic and fraud free and supporting whomever the people choose.

      --
      I call it 'The Aristocrats'
    10. Re:Not a Person by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      Except Time has never bestowed its Person of the Year honor on a dead person. One of the members of the selection committee was asked about Bouazizi on NPR this morning, and that was (part of) his response.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    11. Re:Not a Person by idontgno · · Score: 1

      Why is everyone so scared of the probability of an Islamic based party being democratically elected without fraud in the middle east?

      Because Islam is scary and hates our freedom. Didn't you get the memo?

      Yes, I'm being sarcastic. Just in case someone confuses this with a sincerely-held belief, since apparently in a few cases it is.

      More to the point, a nice tame secularist government well-calibrated to dance to our tune is vastly superior, even if they're despotic and abusive.

      Yeah, being sarcastic again. Although I'm sure this is actually a valid talking point in the minds of a few foreign-policy strategists in certain Three-Letter Acronym agencies.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    12. Re:Not a Person by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      Sometimes great leaders are drafted from the ranks, and George Washington was one of those. Essentially he was drafted out of retirement to gain fame and respect during the war. He was living a rather comfortable aristocratic (1%) life in semi-retirement when he took up the cause of the american revolution.

      Yes, he did go home and complain how they nominated him to lead the revolutionary armies. It could have had something to do with him showing up to said meeting in full uniform with all his medals prominately displayed. Even then, there is a strong feeling that he was such a shoe in for our first leader, because he had no heirs. Nobody wanted a dynasty put into place, and it was a fear with at least one of the founding fathers suggesting we should have a king (IIRC). With no heirs, there would be no dynasty or family taking over the country as a defacto king. Therefore, everybody was for George who was probably sterile from the mumps earlier in life. Thus he ruled for almost 25 years from 1975 to 1999 as the leader of the revolutionary army, the president under the Articles of Confederation, and the United States. By that time, everybody was more comfortable with the idea of a President and we had gone through a major crisis.

    13. Re:Not a Person by slew · · Score: 1

      It could have had something to do with him showing up to said meeting in full uniform with all his medals prominately displayed.

      Although that story makes for good historical drama, but more likely the Continental Congress chose George Washington because he offered his services w/o any desire of compensation. Charles Lee (the main competing candidate) apparently made it be known that he wanted to be reimbursed by the Continental Congress for the properties he would lose in England for joining the revolutionary army. Since the Continental Congress didn't have much money, I think that choice was more based on dollars and cents and the fact that Lee was born in Britian (Washington was born in Virginia).

      Of course after Washington gained the respect for the war effort, his back story makes a good case for being President, but if he wasn't leading the Continental Army, the first president could well have been John Adams (or maybe even Thomas Jefferson).

    14. Re:Not a Person by Nimey · · Score: 1

      Because they're apt to be antidemocratic theocrats once they get into power. I'd think the same thing of Christian Dominionists if that ever happened here.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    15. Re:Not a Person by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because once they're elected they will proceed to shit on every secular freedom they can find in the name of the koran.

  4. They Didn't Choose 'No One' by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    'By not picking any one individual, they've basically chosen no one.'

    Aside from the obvious one percent that didn't protest, there's another element of society that I happen to belong to. I'm not the 1% but I have a job. As such I stood by with at most sympathy and some odd feelings of survivor's guilt as I saw protests unfold in cities around my country. Yet I still had deadlines to make at work. So I'm not Time's Person of the Year but the protesters are because I sat here and sipped Lapsang Souchong tea while they made headlines. And that isn't no one, I think that's actually a very select group of people that were there, were non-violent and had a message. Other people that used the opportunities to loot or arson probably aren't proud enough to say it but Time Magazine has definitely selected a small set of people from around the world to be the Person of the Year. And I disagree that it was a bad choice and that it somehow represents 'no one.'

    Sort of off-topic but every time I hear about protesting, this video pops into my head. I will opine that in this video you will see what aspects you want to see about protesting. But I think that it encapsulates a lot about protests -- even from the comparatively non-violent protests of G20 last year in Toronto. From the pacifying elements of society to the occasional brutality involved from either side, this video is oddly satisfying for me.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:They Didn't Choose 'No One' by tnk1 · · Score: 0

      I'd agree with you except for the part about having a message. I still can't figure out what they were protesting other than the fact that some people have a shitload more money than other people. As for those rich people getting their money in ethically challenged ways... well that's not particularly new, nor is it ever going to change.

      I wish they actually had some conception of what they want other than, what they don't want. I guess you have to start somewhere, but movements that don't have specific goals are ripe for other people to either ignore or worse to co-opt into their own scheme to gain power "to help The People".

    2. Re:They Didn't Choose 'No One' by unitron · · Score: 1

      Their presence *is* their message.

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    3. Re:They Didn't Choose 'No One' by Shatrat · · Score: 1

      I wish I could pepper spray people through the internet.

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    4. Re:They Didn't Choose 'No One' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Their presence *is* their message."

      WTF does that mean? I'm sorry, but I forgot to take 400 level philosophy classes in school.

    5. Re:They Didn't Choose 'No One' by drnb · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Their presence *is* their message.

      Yes, but the campers aren't delivering the message you were hoping for. Their presence is often a burden on the 99% (small business, workers, commuters, people/families who use parks, taxpayers who have to pick up the cleanup bill, etc) and irrelevant to the 1%.

    6. Re:They Didn't Choose 'No One' by Captain+Spam · · Score: 1

      I'd agree with you except for the part about having a message. I still can't figure out what they were protesting other than the fact that some people have a shitload more money than other people. As for those rich people getting their money in ethically challenged ways... well that's not particularly new, nor is it ever going to change.

      I wish they actually had some conception of what they want other than, what they don't want. I guess you have to start somewhere, but movements that don't have specific goals are ripe for other people to either ignore or worse to co-opt into their own scheme to gain power "to help The People".

      It took them a while (probably relating to them catching on that the media wasn't understanding them at all), but I think they finally stabilized on protesting the "socialized risk, privatized profit" sort of thing that modern businesses were getting away with (redundant emphasis on think ). That is, the bits where the banks that committed blatant fraud but whose managers got off with a slap on the wrist at worst, massive bailout loans at best, etc, etc.

      I mean, that's a decent thing to protest and all, but it's clear these kids don't understand the concept of "you never get a second chance to make a first impression". Maybe if they got their intent clear first off rather than assuming that everyone just intrinsically KNEW what they meant, things might be different, but they led with a muddy, contradictory message, and that's what everyone's going to remember about them. They've got a much harder road ahead of them if they hope to change anything.

      --
      Demanding constant attention will only lead to attention.
    7. Re:They Didn't Choose 'No One' by Trepidity · · Score: 1

      Given how angry wealthy people and politicians seem to be about them, and how ambivalent most other people I know are, that doesn't seem to be what's happening.

      The whining about cleanup/policing bill is particularly unconvincing. Most cities spend more money policing and cleaning up after their local NFL team's fans (and that's not even counting the millions in subsidies for the stadium). If we want to save money on policing and cleanup, there are a lot more obvious places to start than some people in a park.

    8. Re:They Didn't Choose 'No One' by drnb · · Score: 2

      Given how angry wealthy people and politicians seem to be about them, and how ambivalent most other people I know are, that doesn't seem to be what's happening.

      You don't seem to have been paying attention. The ambivalence turned into disapproval long ago.
      http://theweek.com/article/index/221562/occupys-plummeting-popularity-4-theories

    9. Re:They Didn't Choose 'No One' by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      In the past, I'd have said that would be a bad idea. Recent interactions with a troll, however, make me think it might not be.

      Sadly, though, that power would likely work 2 ways and you'd be vulnerable to random pepper sprayings by every troll and script kiddie around.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    10. Re:They Didn't Choose 'No One' by Trepidity · · Score: 1

      45% people opposed doesn't seem particularly solid "disapproval" to me...

    11. Re:They Didn't Choose 'No One' by drnb · · Score: 1

      45% people opposed doesn't seem particularly solid "disapproval" to me...

      The relevant point was the 11% downward shift in approval for occupy in November. In particular the shift mainly coming from formerly ambivalent people adopting the negative outlook.

    12. Re:They Didn't Choose 'No One' by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      It took them a while (probably relating to them catching on that the media wasn't understanding them at all), but I think they finally stabilized on protesting the "socialized risk, privatized profit" sort of thing that modern businesses were getting away with (redundant emphasis on think ).

      So why were they protesting outside Wall Street rather than Congress and the White House?

    13. Re:They Didn't Choose 'No One' by Shatrat · · Score: 2

      I'm willing to risk it if it means I can make sure banal statements like "Their presence *is* their message" are always followed by blinding pain.

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    14. Re:They Didn't Choose 'No One' by Galestar · · Score: 1

      To fix their grievances properly there's about 20 laws that need to be enacted, constitutional amendments, and 30 years of the corportization of the government to be undone. IMO these these cannot be done just with a demand - you need to change the culture. You need to educate others.. If you can get enough people in the country to believe in your message, you can get anything you want.

      --
      AccountKiller
    15. Re:They Didn't Choose 'No One' by fotbr · · Score: 1

      It has taken less than 45% of the eligible to vote population to elect a president in almost (if not every) election in the US.

    16. Re:They Didn't Choose 'No One' by aztektum · · Score: 1

      Their expenses are often easy to absorb, especially when compared to propping up big industry.

      100k or so to fix a park? A couple million to cover police overtime?* Chump change compared to the hundreds of billions in taxpayer money we've shoveled into corporate coffers.

      Corporate welfare, bailouts, whatever you want to call it, has cost the 99% far more than OWS ever will.

      (* These were the estimates bandied about by the city I live in)

      --
      :: aztek ::
      No sig for you!!
    17. Re:They Didn't Choose 'No One' by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      Oh please. Find an Occupy site where the cops didn't just crash in, trash the entire place, lead the protesters out like cattle without giving them time to gather their things, and then bitch about what a mess was made, and you might have a point.

    18. Re:They Didn't Choose 'No One' by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      Wall Street had a far, far larger hand in it. Or are you one of those people that somehow doesn't think that companies should be held accountable for their actions?

    19. Re:They Didn't Choose 'No One' by drnb · · Score: 1

      Oh please. Find an Occupy site where the cops didn't just crash in, trash the entire place, lead the protesters out like cattle without giving them time to gather their things, and then bitch about what a mess was made, and you might have a point.

      By claiming protesters had no warnings regarding evictions you have clearly demonstrated an ignorance of recent events.

    20. Re:They Didn't Choose 'No One' by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      By claiming that they should have been able to be evicted like that, despite several judges saying they couldn't be, you clearly have an ignorance not only of recent events, but of Constitutional Freedoms.

    21. Re:They Didn't Choose 'No One' by unitron · · Score: 1

      And the way you know for what message I was hoping, or even whether I was, is...?

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    22. Re:They Didn't Choose 'No One' by drnb · · Score: 1

      Nope. Rulings by judges were adhered to (those that were not overturned by higher courts) and proper notice was given.

    23. Re:They Didn't Choose 'No One' by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      It's proof that trickle down doesn't work. Trickle up does, but that requires the 99% have something to trickle.

  5. What about RTFA? by jcombel · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    Or are not all attention spans created equal?

  6. The POTY has become pretty lame by sohmc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When they chose the president, a famous person, non-entity, etc, it's just lame. Last year was Mark Zuckerburg. That was a possible pick since Facebook has changes much of what we do online.

    But when they chose "you" and "the protestor", I feel like they just had a dart board and just saw what stuck.

    Story of the Year is probably a much accurate title, but won't sell as many mags or get as many people talking about it.

    --
    We don't live in Shouldland.
    1. Re:The POTY has become pretty lame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know, right?

      I think we all know who is to blame here. Moot.
      He caused all this. He created those monsters that spawned another protesting rebel generation.

      DAMNED HIPPIES, WE WILL STRIKE YOU DOWN AGAIN.

    2. Re:The POTY has become pretty lame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Facebook has changed NOTHING on what most of us do online. They're simply this decade's Geocities. Just because the media keeps mentioning them doesn't mean everyone uses them.

    3. Re:The POTY has become pretty lame by alphred · · Score: 1

      Very true. POTY jumped the shark before Fonzie did.

    4. Re:The POTY has become pretty lame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The truth is they wanted it to be Obama, but knew that would be transparently partisan and even more ludicrous than what they ended up with.

      I wonder if they're including the Occupy people who raped and assaulted others? Or the Arab Spring people who are fanatical members of the Muslim Brotherhood and who will make their country much worse now that they are in power? Or maybe the whiny kids at schools who are upset that their parents pay a lot of money for them to get degrees in subjects no one is hiring for?

    5. Re:The POTY has become pretty lame by Trepidity · · Score: 1

      It's never really been much different, though. For the most part, a "person of the year" has always been shorthand for a larger group of people, their organizations, etc., who did some noteworthy thing that year. Only a small handful have been for what you might call truly individual accomplishments.

      For example, the dual award to Bill Clinton and Kenn Starr in 1998 was basically "the Clinton impeachment saga". The 1999 award to Jeff Bezos was a stand-in for "the rise of e-commerce". The 1979 award to Ayatollah Khomeini was a stand-in for "the Iranian revolution". In 1947 to George Marshall, a stand-in for the Marshall Plan (which was hardly his single-handed doing). Etc.

    6. Re:The POTY has become pretty lame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The MB is a totally secular, rationalist-you-betcha organization. I heard it on Slashdot.

    7. Re:The POTY has become pretty lame by jd · · Score: 1

      I forget -- is Time's PotY the one that's supposed to be "cursed"? And, if so, is there any chance Wall Street paid Time for the feature, hoping to use the curse as a weapon of mass destruction?

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    8. Re:The POTY has become pretty lame by identity0 · · Score: 2

      >They're simply this decade's Geocities.

      OH SNAP, that is the harshest thing I've ever heard about Facebook.

      That was low, man, real low.

    9. Re:The POTY has become pretty lame by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      This decades AOL.

      They serve a purpose. Raising the signal to noise ratio in the rest of the net.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    10. Re:The POTY has become pretty lame by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      Yeah, when you don't understand what the hell the Person of the Year is supposed to represent, it's easy to spout bullshit like that.

    11. Re:The POTY has become pretty lame by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      No, that's the cover of Madden.

    12. Re:The POTY has become pretty lame by jd · · Score: 1

      Ah. Y'know, shows my age when I read that as Maiden and wondered when Iron Maiden started doing person of the year album covers.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    13. Re:The POTY has become pretty lame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, the fact that more than 10% of the entire planet use Facebook is what means that.

      The fact that _you_ don't use Facebook doesn't mean that no one does.

  7. Anonymous Coward for Person of the Year by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    omg, 1st pick!!

  8. This is an outrage! by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 2
    The time mag editors are a bunch of wozzies. Instead of selecting the most deserving Superstar Rajnikant as the person of the year, they have gone for some faceless masked angry young man.

    I am going to protest. Big time. Occupy Time Mag. yeah, yeah.

    Now where do I collect the brownie points for being the person of the year?

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:This is an outrage! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just wait for 12/12/2012.

  9. Oh, that guy by 14erCleaner · · Score: 1

    "The protester" must be the one person left in our local "occupy" demonstration. He looks cold.

    --
    Have you read my blog lately?
  10. To borrow from Mitch Hedberg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am against this, but don't know how to show it.

  11. I thought they would have gone with Fireman by TheRealSteveDallas · · Score: 1

    or maybe Marching Band Leader

  12. i am the protester! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Okay guys, I'm here. Thanks a lot-- in this recognition, my spirit is truly embiggened.

  13. It could have been worse... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... they could have picked Steve Jobs.

    Oh come on, you know you were thinking it!

    1. Re:It could have been worse... by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      ... they could have picked Steve Jobs.

      It would have made a lot more sense; regardless of what one may think of him, he's had far more impact on the world than a bunch of deluded 'protestors' and now he's dead he won't be able to win it another year.

    2. Re:It could have been worse... by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 0

      ... they could have picked Steve Jobs.

      It would have made a lot more sense; regardless of what one may think of him, he's had far more impact on the world than a bunch of deluded 'protestors' and now he's dead he won't be able to win it another year.

      Yes, the man who founded the largest corporation in the world would have been a significant candidate. Especially as opposed to unwashed hippies kvetching about how society just won't give them everything that they want. Jobs himself has a rather counter-culture background, but at least he worked for his riches. That I can admire.

      --
      "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
    3. Re:It could have been worse... by pablodiazgutierrez · · Score: 1

      4 dictators fallen and counting is quite an impact, I would say. It took the US a lot of sweat, blood and dollars to topple just one, by contrast.

    4. Re:It could have been worse... by reboot246 · · Score: 1

      Four dictators replaced with what? The Muslim Brotherhood? Wow! Now that's some improvement!

    5. Re:It could have been worse... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not really. Removing Saddam was terribly easy, putting together a successful replacement government and babysitting it till it was strong enough to take over was the hard part.

    6. Re:It could have been worse... by pablodiazgutierrez · · Score: 1

      Whether that's an improvement is not for you nor me to decide. Unless you're an Egyptian.

  14. Prediction for 2012 Person of the Year by deathcloset · · Score: 1
  15. TGINS by identity0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Thank God It's Not Steve Jobs.

    And although the Occupy people are not as hardcore as the Arab Spring guys, it's good that they didn't restrict it to one movement or country since there seems to be new protests in Russia and China...

    1. Re:TGINS by identity0 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Although on second thought, "Anonymous" would have been a good choice as well.

      Not just the hacker group or 4channers, but all people acting anonymously, like whistleblowers and protesters. Would have been an counterpoint to Zuckerberg.

    2. Re:TGINS by EvilBudMan · · Score: 1

      Wait until next year. He'll get it then.

  16. Occupy hasn't been co-opted? by drnb · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The Tea Party has been co-opted into Fox News' astroturfing arm.

    No more than the Occupy movement has been co-opted by the Democratic party and its operatives. For example union support and funding leading to a morphing of banning donation by organization to banning donations by corporations. Unions are no more people than corporations. Union members are people, just like corporate employees. Union and corporate interests should be represented through their members and employees, not through the union leadership and corporate CEOs with the political connections and big checkbooks.

    Plus there is the whole problem of the real Occupy movement voice being crowded out by the fringe far left, the campers, much as the real Tea Party voice was drowned out by the fringe far right. The real voices just are not as interesting to TV as the fringe.

    1. Re:Occupy hasn't been co-opted? by AdamJS · · Score: 2

      Seems like one of the largest unions, that of the Police, are far from siding with OWS;

      Of course, the whole point, of being anti-corporate and anti-corruption of Capitalism, is one that goes against the core fiber of both the Democrats and the GOP. So it is quite silly to equate the OWS with the DNC in the same way as the Tea Party was/is essentially just a fringe classification of the actual GOP base.

    2. Re:Occupy hasn't been co-opted? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For example union support

      Like shutting down dem union ports! Fight the system!

      LOL.

    3. Re:Occupy hasn't been co-opted? by Martin+Blank · · Score: 2

      On the West Coast, they're starting to irritate the dock workers and truckers, too, by attempting to shut down the ports. There is such a thing as taking a point too far, and I think that while OWS had majority sympathy for the first few weeks, they pushed it too far and now many people just want them to shut up.

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    4. Re:Occupy hasn't been co-opted? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Occupy Wallstreet and the Tea Party have a lot in common. One has been co-opted and perverted by a bunch of absurd left-wing groups and causes and the Tea Party (originally started by Ron Paul and focusing on libertarian causes) has been co-opted and perverted by the Republicans who basically just stepped in and said "this is ours now" and turned it into such a mouth-breathing festering pool of retardation that no libertarian would dare claim ever having any relation to Tea Party, for fear of the uneducated lumping them in with republicans and nut-jobs derpa derpa took-r-jobs gays gays gays durpa durpa.

    5. Re:Occupy hasn't been co-opted? by dkleinsc · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No more than the Occupy movement has been co-opted by the Democratic party and its operatives.

      Really? If you asked them, you'd know that they have very little use for Obama's protection of bankers. A lot of them have made it very clear that they don't support the Democratic Party or its candidates. Not one national Democratic Party figure has taken part in an Occupy event. They've spent none of the money they've collected on supporting Democratic candidates.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    6. Re:Occupy hasn't been co-opted? by drnb · · Score: 2

      No more than the Occupy movement has been co-opted by the Democratic party and its operatives.

      Really? If you asked them, you'd know that they have very little use for Obama's protection of bankers. A lot of them have made it very clear that they don't support the Democratic Party or its candidates. Not one national Democratic Party figure has taken part in an Occupy event. They've spent none of the money they've collected on supporting Democratic candidates.

      Its not that they are spending money on democratic candidates, its that they are morphing their message so that it is in line with and supporting the democratic party's political message and strategy for the current campaign season. Again, the example of morphing no political donations from organizations, only from individuals, into no political donations from corporations. Their message is now aligned with the democratic political theme for 2012 and protects union contributions.

      Many prominent Democrats expressed support for Occupy initially and subsequently distanced themselves as the campers seemed to have taken over. Initially these democrats thought they might get their own tea party like organization.

    7. Re:Occupy hasn't been co-opted? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Unions are no more people than corporations. Union members are people, just like corporate employees.

      Nope. To union leadership the union members, who voted them into office, are people. To the CEO and board they're assets, not people.

      Union and corporate interests should be represented through their members and employees, not through the union leadership and corporate CEOs with the political connections and big checkbooks.

      I agree completely.

    8. Re:Occupy hasn't been co-opted? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They talked to a OWS person on the radio when they were doing their protests in DC...

      After the girl said she no, she is not a constituent of Ron Paul, but other people are that are there, and they are going after everyone, He asked why they aren't talking to Herb Kohl. He's UBER .5% and her only response was they reached out through the internet and email but didn't get a response...

      It was such a fake equality stance it didn't hold up to basic questions... we are against everyone, but we will only actually go after one side.

    9. Re:Occupy hasn't been co-opted? by geekoid · · Score: 1, Insightful

      NO no, let him wallow in his mistaken assumption and what he thinks is obvious. Facts can't change those idiots minds.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    10. Re:Occupy hasn't been co-opted? by drnb · · Score: 1

      Unions are no more people than corporations. Union members are people, just like corporate employees.

      Nope. To union leadership the union members, who voted them into office, are people. To the CEO and board they're assets, not people.

      As someone who grew up in a union household, as did my father, union members are just assets to union leadership too. Unions leaders are often just executives running an organization and act to protect and grow that organization while giving lip service to its members. Just like corporate CEOs protect and grow their organization and give lip service to their employees. Union leadership are often no longer tradesman/craftsman who came up through working ranks, rather managers and administrators and professional organizers, no more connected to workers than corporate managers.

      My grandfather who belonged to a major union for over 40 years told me that the days where unions fought for exploited and injured workers is largely past, that today its usually just a racket for collecting money and political influence. Likewise he believes that unions are no longer guardians of a trade or craft, self enforcing high quality standards, its just a dues collection machine.

    11. Re:Occupy hasn't been co-opted? by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      Union and corporate interests should be represented through their members and employees, not through the union leadership and corporate CEOs with the political connections and big checkbooks.

      Union members and stockholders already vote for their representatives because 100,000 shareholders/employees are not going to fit into the senator's office, so what's your alternative?

      The problem for anyone representing a group is that the individuals in any group hold contradictory ideas and priorities. In other words; there is no true Scotsman so we pick the ginger haired guy in a kilt.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    12. Re:Occupy hasn't been co-opted? by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      Its not that they are spending money on democratic candidates, its that they are morphing their message so that it is in line with and supporting the democratic party's political message and strategy for the current campaign season.

      Care to post evidence of this?

    13. Re:Occupy hasn't been co-opted? by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      Unions are no more people than corporations. Union members are people, just like corporate employees.

      Next time you want to make this asinine comparison, why not back it up by showing an instance in which the leadership of a corporation was chosen by the employees that work for it.

    14. Re:Occupy hasn't been co-opted? by drnb · · Score: 1

      Its not that they are spending money on democratic candidates, its that they are morphing their message so that it is in line with and supporting the democratic party's political message and strategy for the current campaign season.

      Care to post evidence of this?

      Did you miss the only let people donate to political candidates message become don't let corporations donate?

    15. Re:Occupy hasn't been co-opted? by drnb · · Score: 1

      Unions are no more people than corporations. Union members are people, just like corporate employees.

      Next time you want to make this asinine comparison, why not back it up by showing an instance in which the leadership of a corporation was chosen by the employees that work for it.

      Many union leaders are no more accountable to members than many CEOs are accountable to boards of directors and shareholders. In theory they are accountable but in practice they are not. Union leaders are often professional administrators or organizers that never really worked in the trade like members. Like many CEOs, many union leaders protect and grow their organization, employees and members are just assets, dues paying machines. The later was learned from my father and grandfather, lifelong union workers.

      Face it, union leaders are often corrupt and political insiders just like many CEOs. The fact remains that union leadership is part of the current system of corruption.

    16. Re:Occupy hasn't been co-opted? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      With the exception of the Temasters (terrible union, I was in the Teamsters once) your grandpa is wrong.

    17. Re:Occupy hasn't been co-opted? by drnb · · Score: 1

      With the exception of the Temasters (terrible union, I was in the Teamsters once) your grandpa is wrong.

      Not the teamsters, but it was another very large international union. AFL-CIO affiliated.

    18. Re:Occupy hasn't been co-opted? by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      That's not evidence. That was always the call. Corporations aren't people, thus they shouldn't be able to donate.

      Try again.

    19. Re:Occupy hasn't been co-opted? by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      Yeah, no. Union leaders are elected by the very people they represent. Again, CEOs are not elected by the people who work for them, but by bankers and hedge fund managers.

    20. Re:Occupy hasn't been co-opted? by drnb · · Score: 1

      That's not evidence. That was always the call. Corporations aren't people, thus they shouldn't be able to donate. Try again.

      Reread. You are missing the important distinction.

      A. Only people can donate to campaigns.
      B. Corporation can not donate to campaigns

      A and B are not equivalent. Under A no organization can donate, including unions. So the movement from A to B is an extremely big change. A change made under the influence of union support of Occupy.

      No organization should be able to donate to campaigns. Union interests can be represented by union member donations, corporate interests can be represented by employee donations, organization interests (say the AARP) can be represented by member donations, etc.

    21. Re:Occupy hasn't been co-opted? by drnb · · Score: 1

      Your argument is quite silly. Politicians are elected by the people they represent and they are often extremely corrupt and act against the interests of those who voted for them. So is union leadership, its often just as corrupt. Many union leaders are essentially professional politicians, not someone who came of the ranks of the trade.

  17. Who is Dashiell Bennett?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who the heck is Dashiell Bennett and why should I care what he/she thinks about Time's choice of "Person of The Year"??

    ok... quick check on Twitter ... he is a "blogger" with 999 twitter followers ... ok.

  18. Ridiculous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

    Are they seriously lumping together the Occupy protesters with the rest of the protesters around the world laying their lives on the line to overthrow ruthless dictators? Really!?

  19. Economic Justice by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'd agree with you except for the part about having a message.

    What I garnered from the more cognizant participants was they wanted one thing: economic justice.

    I still can't figure out what they were protesting other than the fact that some people have a shitload more money than other people. As for those rich people getting their money in ethically challenged ways...

    Yeah, so I think the real upsetting aspect of "some people have a shitload more money than other people" is how that came to be. I mean, just watching the Daily Show I see it all the time like my hard working father is now jobless and has to drive across three states to work and lives out of an RV away from his wife and home while the fed hands out $13 billion in just free cash to banks? Are you serious? That's not economic justice! Our government bought up tons of shitty toxic assets from dumbshit investors to 'save' them yet no one tried to 'save' the jobs of the working class by just dumping billions of dollars into the rest of America. And when are those investments sold back to the original investors who made the stupid mistake to buy them? When do those people that made imprudent investment decisions get their comeuppance? Or is it only people that just tried to hold on to their jobs that have to pay for that fuck up?

    well that's not particularly new, nor is it ever going to change.

    You know I think people are okay when you can present them some convincing argument why the 1% deserve the Lion's share of the wealth. But when you paint them as bitching hippies who don't know what they want, you are really part of the problem. I don't want corporations to have more rights than individuals. Reinstate the Glass-Stegall Act to regulate speculation and stop corporations from internationally shifting funds in order to avoid paying the same damn income taxes I pay!

    To just say "Aw, the 1% are just harder workers than you and deserve these rewards" is more ignorant than the protesters who don't know what they want.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Economic Justice by tnk1 · · Score: 1

      My point is this. If you want economic justice, you need a way to buttress against all the ways that reality conspires against you. Nature itself is competitive, but in a way that does not care about anything short of an entire species.

      If you find an individual or even a class of people to be important, you need to understand that you are fighting against entropy at all times. You could just go out and be a hippie, and maybe change the world a bit, and then you end up in the 80's where all your friends are now yuppies because they didn't build anything that lasted longer than their hormones did.

      People are pissed now, fair enough. Perhaps they should be, but not only am I am looking at Occupy whatever with a very wary eye, I'm even looking at the Arab Spring that way. They won in Egypt and what happened? The military is now in charge and making virginity checks.

      Look at history carefully. It's not good enough to have a nice protest. If you haven't got a plan, you could fail and that could cause serious consequences when the reactionaries get their power back and you realize that all you did was wake them up. Look at 1848 and realize that a lot of the shit that they missed their chance to fix was fixed only by World War I. Those are the stakes, and I fear the Occupy protesters haven't got a sense of history to understand that they should not only be mad, they should be constructive and seize the day and not expect someone to make it better for them just because they bitched.

    2. Re:Economic Justice by andre1s · · Score: 1

      Well the people that owned even the more sane JPM have lost about 1/2 of their money in 2008 so they did pay. They were not saving dumb shit investors, but majority of people all things told banks with their actual assets could cover a loss of about 5% so if they were not bailed out all people having having $ at the banks would get 0 and FDIC could not cover their gurantees.

    3. Re:Economic Justice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Was US Bank bailed out? JPM should have died in a normal market and US Bank should have been held up as the model of banks to survive dumbshits like JPM. People say "blah blah blah those dirty hippies protesting probably didn't deserve their jobs" well I fucking damn well know that JPM leadership didn't deserve their jobs! And who still has the same fucking jobs?

      Wall Street is above the fucking rules of their own game that they make other people play.

    4. Re:Economic Justice by pablodiazgutierrez · · Score: 1

      That was $13 trillion. $700 billion was the TARP fund.

    5. Re:Economic Justice by 14erCleaner · · Score: 1

      Our government bought up tons of shitty toxic assets from dumbshit investors to 'save' them yet no one tried to 'save' the jobs of the working class by just dumping billions of dollars into the rest of America.

      How about the $25 billion bailouts of GM and Chrysler? Or did you mean "trillions"?

      --
      Have you read my blog lately?
    6. Re:Economic Justice by andre1s · · Score: 1

      Well who runs JPM is a matter for shareholders to decide, not being a shareholders do not care either way. Although Jamie did start selling off crappy assets way before 2008 and was taking a loss in a time when all banks were showing strong profits, so I'd say he knows what he is doing.

    7. Re:Economic Justice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a member of the 99%, let me help you out.

      When I was young, I left five dollars in a bank account for about a year. When I went back, there was five dollars and change.

      Banks used to pay interest for the privilege of using my money and having my business.

      Five dollars won't last five minutes in a bank these days, because the 1% long ago stopped creating wealth and now just take it from everyone else.

      Time for the 1% to get real jobs like the rest of us.

  20. my suggestion was ignored by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    #include "stdio.h"

    int main( int argc, char** argv )
    {
        int i=0;
    rehab:
        printf( "NO -- \n" );
        if (i++ < 3)
            goto rehab;
        return 0;
    }

    1. Re:my suggestion was ignored by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      of course it was ignored, who uses a goto for a simple loop?

    2. Re:my suggestion was ignored by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They tried to make me goto rehab, I said NO -- NO -- NO

  21. The way Time is going... by Hollinger · · Score: 5, Funny

    The way Time is going, next year they'll name "The Subscriber."

    1. Re:The way Time is going... by SEWilco · · Score: 1

      The way Time is going, next year they'll name "The Subscriber."

      He is the 1%!

    2. Re:The way Time is going... by RazorSharp · · Score: 2

      "By subscribing to TIME magazine, The Subscriber has chosen truth in a time of lies. Chosen real news, news you know is real because it's printed on actual paper, rather than succumb to the unverifiable voracity of the blogs that threaten to wipe out humanity. Make sure that everyone you know also becomes a Subscriber to save their humanity!"

      --
      "From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."
    3. Re:The way Time is going... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      At least they'll be picking a single person then.

    4. Re:The way Time is going... by hawkingradiation · · Score: 1

      Also, before you consider supporting Time. Keep in mind that its parent company, Time Warner, helped put out a full page ad in support of SOPA, the Stop Online Piracy Act. We should be letting them know that this is unacceptable. So get with the times, Time Warner, or at least help them to find another business model so the incentive is not to support such laws. "Time Interactive News"???

      --
      Society use your Sciences
  22. I protest! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I protest this appointment! If published, I will not serve!

  23. Re:Better double check who you pick by MyLongNickName · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why does it matter? Person of the year is about the "person" who had the biggest impact, not necessarilly in a positive way. At the risk of Godwining this thread, Hitler was Time Man of the Year.

    --
    See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
  24. Slashvertizement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Slashvertizing for Time Mag now? Really why is here?

    Anyway it should have been Dennis Ritchie

  25. Occupy a creation of Adbusters media organization by drnb · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Deluded much?

    No, just misinformed. While Occupy may have been co-opted by the Democratic Party, ACORN and related groups who are desperate for a tea party organization of their own, Occupy is a creation of the Canadian media organization Adbusters who is related to the former.

    "The Adbusters Media Foundation is a Canadian-based not-for-profit, anti-consumerist, pro-environment[1] organization founded in 1989 by Kalle Lasn and Bill Schmalz in Vancouver, British Columbia. Adbusters describes itself as "a global network of artists, activists, writers, pranksters, students, educators and entrepreneurs who want to advance the new social activist movement of the information age." Characterized by some as anti-capitalist or opposed to capitalism,[3] it publishes the reader-supported, advertising-free Adbusters, an activist magazine with an international circulation of 120,000[4] devoted to challenging consumerism ... Adbusters has launched numerous international campaigns, including Buy Nothing Day, TV Turnoff Week and Occupy Wall Street, and is known for their "subvertisements" that spoof popular advertisements."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adbusters

  26. Drama much? by AdamJS · · Score: 1

    Jeeze, was being Person of the Year once already just not good enough?

    Next thing you know, everyone's going to be demanding Person of the Century and then cats will live with dogs and the whole system will collapse!

  27. Time is weird? by EvilBudMan · · Score: 2

    They also made the PC or maybe it was the computer in general person of the year back in the 80's or 90's. Next up a terrorist is person of the year.

    1. Re:Time is weird? by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 0

      Next up a terrorist is person of the year.

      Too late. See 1993.

  28. It went off track by AdamJS · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The second they backed down from choosing OBL.

  29. "Planet of the Year"... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...reminds me of this.

  30. Re:Better double check who you pick by RazorSharp · · Score: 5, Informative

    That's nothing. Look what Stalin did. He won the it twice. Hitler won in 1938.

    The funny thing is, the Time "Person of the Year" has been pretty stupid ever since they changed it from "Man of the Year" to "Person of the Year." To me, that represented when they decided to prioritize political correctness over honesty (1999). We had GWB in 2000 (the year he spent mostly on vacation), Rudy Giuliani in 2001 (the year Osama bin Laden was the clear 'winner'), 'The Whistleblowers' in 2002 (inciting this trend of non-persons - it had been done in the past but sparingly), 'The American Soldier' in 2003, GWB again in 2004, 'The Good Samaritans' in 2005, 'You' in 2006 (probably the worst choice ever), Putin in 2007, Obama in 2008, Bernanke in 2009 (first justifiable choice of the decade - the last year of it), Zuckerberg last year (Julian Assange clear 'winner'), and now this protestor bullshit.

    Basically, Time Person of a Year is a joke.

    Also, the chart you cite is full of inaccuracies, bias, and lies.

    --
    "From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."
  31. Re:Better double check who you pick by Mashiki · · Score: 1

    Well person of the year is about as useful as the nobel peace prize. Both of which have been handing once good to prestigious awards to idiots, fools, tinpot dictators, and murderous tyrants with the blood of millions on their hands.

    --
    Om, nomnomnom...
  32. Year of the Year by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

    With so many "of the Year" awards, I demand they award a Year of the Year award. Personally, I think 2011 is a shoe-in.

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    1. Re:Year of the Year by robot256 · · Score: 1

      Might be more useful if they awarded an "Award of the Year of the Year" award. That way we could award the best award!

  33. Occupy is anti-corporate and anti-consumerism by drnb · · Score: 1

    Seems like one of the largest unions, that of the Police, are far from siding with OWS;

    The Police union doesn't give operational orders to the police, the elected politicians do. And anything that protects police jobs, or possibly increases the number of police jobs, will not be opposed by the union leadership.

    Of course, the whole point, of being anti-corporate and anti-corruption of Capitalism, ...

    Actually Occupy is the creation of a media organization that is anti-capitalism and anti-consumerism.

    "The Adbusters Media Foundation is a Canadian-based not-for-profit, anti-consumerist, pro-environment organization ... Adbusters describes itself as "a global network of artists, activists, writers, pranksters, students, educators and entrepreneurs who want to advance the new social activist movement of the information age." Characterized by some as anti-capitalist or opposed to capitalism, it publishes the reader-supported, advertising-free Adbusters, an activist magazine with an international circulation of 120,000[4] devoted to challenging consumerism."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adbusters

    ... is one that goes against the core fiber of both the Democrats and the GOP. So it is quite silly to equate the OWS with the DNC in the same way as the Tea Party was/is essentially just a fringe classification of the actual GOP base.

    Not really. The Democrats, unions and other parties want to morph its message into anti-corporation for political reasons. Much as the tea party started as anti-spending and anti-waste and was morphed into something else.

    1. Re:Occupy is anti-corporate and anti-consumerism by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      The Police union doesn't give operational orders to the police, the elected politicians do. And anything that protects police jobs, or possibly increases the number of police jobs, will not be opposed by the union leadership.

      Labeling all protestors as criminals will protect/increase police jobs. Also, protecting police who assault peaceful demonstrators is one of their goals. As such, though they take no "official" stance, they are very much against OWS.

    2. Re:Occupy is anti-corporate and anti-consumerism by AdamJS · · Score: 1

      Yes. It's that evil random Canadian news mag!
      They orchestrated the whole thing! With help from that evil Soros and his powers of the lieberal agenda!

      OWS is, at the very least, PRO-Capitalism - Capitalism that is regulated and properly controlled to create a system that grows exponentially and encourages innovation, competition and security and growth for its workers as well.

      Granted, you get the fringe groups within - the super communists, the anarchists, the actual liberals, etc. - in the same way that you get the extreme fringe on the further right groups (the blatant racists, the "illegal immigrants should be granted amnesty on the condition that they work for 10c an hour" peoples, the birthers, etc.)

  34. Occupy LA camp cleared by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  35. Re:Occupy a creation of Adbusters media organizati by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Adbusters sounds like it should be the name of a firefox extension...

  36. 2006 Wasn't a Disappointment by geoffrobinson · · Score: 0

    I have Time's Person of the Year on my resume. Thank you very much.

    --
    Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
  37. Re:Better double check who you pick by geoffrobinson · · Score: 1

    It's about influence of the news, not morality.

    But to be honest, they should have picked Hitler for the last century.

    --
    Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
  38. I keep waiting for Time to appear on its own cover by istartedi · · Score: 1

    I keep waiting for Time to appear on its own cover. Who here reads Time? If you do, I bet there's a strong correlation with how often you visit the dentist.

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
  39. So dumb by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This is the equivalent to the schools handing out those bumper stickers that say, "My child is a Very Important Person at Random Elementary School Number Five." Instead of celebrating Honor Roll achievement by students, we celebrate every kid who shows up. It's celebrating and rewarding mediocrity.

    Time's Person of the year is EVERYONE! Not because you did anything special, but just because you're you.

    I can see the Hallmark card now.

    P.S. I should get a bumper sticker and/or magazine cover for the correct use of the word you're.

    1. Re:So dumb by Fned · · Score: 1

      It's not everyone, though.

      Most importantly, it very specifically is not YOU.

  40. Don't forget the Wutbürgers! Oben bleiben! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What about the Wutbürgers of Stuttgart, Germany ?

  41. Big Media at it again by Dripdry · · Score: 1

    They want people to think that something has changed. Let people think they can stop supporting those trying to alter the system, that they can go home. Sorry, but the cover of Time is a worthless gauge of change and while it's a good headline... that's all it is.

    --
    -
  42. Re:Better double check who you pick by robot256 · · Score: 1

    You must referring to "criminals", not "protesters". Just because they call themselves protesters doesn't mean they deserve the title. The editors clearly intended the award for the people who practiced proper nonviolent protests about real (though myriad) issues, not the dimwits who tagged along as an excuse to fuck people over however the felt like.

  43. First example of this was 1956.. by Anonymous+Meoward · · Score: 1

    ..when Time chose "Hungarian Freedom Fighter" as Person of the Year. More specific than the other examples, but the precedent for not naming one person goes pretty far back.

    --
    --- The American Way of Life is not a birthright. Hell, it's not even sustainable.
  44. could this happen without social media? by peter303 · · Score: 1

    That is the SlashDot angle. Previously you'd have to organize people by word-of-mouth, which has range issues. Or through conventional media, which is easier to control by governments.

    I venture the answer is both yeas and no. In liberal democracies protests have always existed. In more autocratic countries, less so. Social media helped get around their restrictions.

  45. It's a Crock by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 1

    It's a crock, but who thinks that Time is still relevant anyway?

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  46. The very definition of moral equivalence by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    As such I stood by with at most sympathy and some odd feelings of survivor's guilt

    Sorry, but equating your staying at home and not getting a little teary-eyed from pepper spray is hardly the same as having the rest of your family gunned down my mexican drug lords or sent to gas chambers.

    Your use of the term "survivor's guilt" robs it of all meaning for those who have truly suffered.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  47. Stopped being credible in 2001 by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When they made the cowardly decision not to make it Osama Bin Laden. It wasn't intended to be a high school popularity contest; it was the biggest news maker of the year; e.g. Hitler during the WWII era. That's when they started the slide into marketability-driven choices.

    --
    I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
    1. Re:Stopped being credible in 2001 by bussdriver · · Score: 1

      I wish I had mod points. Time has been just another crap media outlet for so long why should we even mention them anymore?? I only see them in the dentist's office where I skip over them for the one on wood working.

  48. and so we cannot by nimbius · · Score: 1

    reason with them, for to reason with them would cost us our power.
    we cannot fight them, for to fight them will further galvanize their resolve and demonize our ideology.
    we cannot buy them, for they cannot be bought
    we cannot laugh at them, for they make a valid point softly echoed by even our own elite

    so we will marginalize them into the pages of pop culture. immortalized on times front cover, their message dilute and hazy, their image another iconic touchstone of american history to fall into the ranks of parachute pants, snap bracelets, and most importantly, obscurity.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
  49. Re:Better double check who you pick by Pope · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Person Of The Year" could be man or woman, or group. "Man Of The Year" is one male. So giving more people the ability to be represented is "politically correctness"?

    --
    It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
  50. It's been the same man for a while now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, they probably do this because for a while now every yeare the man of the year is Carlos Slim.

  51. "Protester"? by nurb432 · · Score: 0

    A better term would be "Whiny Ass"

    These people wouldn't know what a real protest for a real reason was, even if it came up and bit them in the butt while they sit around and make a mess of the public park.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  52. Economic Justice? by Shivetya · · Score: 0

    I wish I could afford to take as many weeks off to protest as the OWS. Oh thats right, most of them are still living off mommy and daddy.

    I agree with Time's naming the protester as their person of the year, I do not agree with lumping the OWS type crowds in the US with them. The real protesters are those of the Arab Spring and possible Russian version.

    Over here the only threats they had to face were from each other and the weather. They could all go home knowing that they would not end up in a prison for protesting... yet at the same time the US protesters wanted nothing to do with the real homeless and such, the real people who truly need help, not the iPhone wielding whiners.

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
    1. Re:Economic Justice? by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      Oh fuck off. Because we live in a civilized country, where people are not thrown in jail for protesting (just sprayed with "food product" and put in prison for a few days), that makes the protest "less legitimate"?

    2. Re:Economic Justice? by pokechop · · Score: 1

      You're an ignorant idiot (with apologies to Chad C. Mulligan). What I observed firsthand at both the Oakland and San Francisco events was a great deal of community effort, altruistic and directly effective. And yes, yuppies coming together with bums and helping out.

      --
      xoviquom, ogdeuns
  53. Magazines to the left, Magazines to the right. by erick99 · · Score: 1

    I used to subscribe to both and enjoyed both, especially in the late 70s and early 80s. Over time, they both became very liberal. I prefer a magazine that reports the news in a more neutral manner. I shouldn't be able to tell if they lean left or right. I want to read articles and decide how I feel about a subject. I enjoy excellent reporting and excellent journalism but I do not enjoy having someone else' opinion proselytized - even when I agree with that position. The only magazines that I still enjoy, these days, are science magazines and maybe a few others that manage not to preach.

    --
    http://www.busyweather.com/
    1. Re:Magazines to the left, Magazines to the right. by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I used to subscribe to both and enjoyed both, especially in the late 70s and early 80s. Over time, they both became very liberal.

      Or you became more conservative?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  54. WHY? by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 3, Insightful

    War is Peace
    Ignorance is Strength
    Credit is Freedom
    Money is Speech
    Capitalism is Democracy
    Corporations are Persons

    Q: How do you account for the fact that the bombing campaign has been going on for thirteen years?
    A: Beginners' luck.

    --
    "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
    Never been known to fail..."
  55. Re:Better double check who you pick by m50d · · Score: 2

    It's not like they restricted it to men before, they just called it woman of the year when they gave it to a woman. Post switching to person of the year, it's gone entirely to men (except when it's not gone to specific people at all). So changing it to person hasn't meant more people were represented - it's just meant phrasing the title unnaturally. It's a completely superficial change which does nothing to actually address inequality - like political correctness usually is.

    --
    I am trolling
  56. Occupy acting like the 1% by drnb · · Score: 1

    One wrong does not justify a second wrong. The fact that the second wrong is of a smaller magnitude does not really change this. This basic problem is that the campers are actually acting very much like the 1%. Self indulgent, entitled to act as they wish, a sense that they are above the law, leaving messes for others to cleanup and/or pay for.

    1. Re:Occupy acting like the 1% by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      The fact that you would call protesting a "wrong" shows how wrong you are.

    2. Re:Occupy acting like the 1% by drnb · · Score: 1

      The fact that you would call protesting a "wrong" shows how wrong you are.

      That's a pretty close minded statement. Like anything else, protesting can be done in a good manner or a bad manner. The campers taking over parks and collecting their poo in jars so they can throw it at police have gone down the wrong path. Face it, the real protesters had been displaced by the profession protesters who like to cause a ruckus at G20, World Bank and other functions.

    3. Re:Occupy acting like the 1% by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 1

      He didn't call protesting wrong; he called littering wrong.

      --
      "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
    4. Re:Occupy acting like the 1% by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      No, he called protesting wrong. There was no littering. The only way you can call it that is to ignore the fact that they were forcibly ejected from the camps, and not allowed to actually gather up their things. I could go to any campground in the country, force out the people who are camping, and then blame them for leaving their stuff there just as easily.

    5. Re:Occupy acting like the 1% by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      There was no littering. The only way you can call it that is to ignore the fact that they were forcibly ejected from the camps, and not allowed to actually gather up their things. I could go to any campground in the country, force out the people who are camping, and then blame them for leaving their stuff there just as easily.

    6. Re:Occupy acting like the 1% by drnb · · Score: 1

      Again, the idea that they were evicted without notice is false.

  57. Re:Better double check who you pick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually "man" is gender neutral. But usually only those who speak English as their second language know that.
    English has no male specific pronouns.

  58. Re:Teabaggers == true Amerikuhns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    you do realize that to those protesting in the countries you mentioned, you are not well liked. Most view the USA and its citizens as the 1%. Your country controls the worlds wealth and uses it to disrupt other countries such as mine.

    We also find great disparity between the issues the Americans protested vs. the issues we protested. Don't think you have any solidarity here. If you were dropped off in the streets when we protest, you would not last very long.

    Your issues are petty. Our issues deal with freedom, liberty and survival.

  59. O'Reilly book never banned from Theatre by drnb · · Score: 1

    Bill O'Reilly routinely makes shit up. Routinely. So much so Ford's Theater is refusing to sell his book.

    Actually shit was made up about this book being banned and you seem to have bought it.

    The truth of the matter was that the book was always for sale in the lobby/visitors center of the theatre. It was merely not available in a less frequented basement area that was more for academic works.

    Also if you had read the complaints by the park service you would have seen they were quite minor.

    Typos?:
    Theatre burned in 1862 vs 1863.
    8 previous performances vs 7.

    Extremely minor errors, some inconsequential:
    9 feet from stage rather than 12.
    "Played here often" vs "12 prior performances".
    "Secret tunnel" vs "passage way through basement".

    Minor errors:
    Confusion over the use of the name "Ford's Opera House".
    Missed that Grant and Lee met a second time at Appomattox.
    Use of too modern terminology, "oval office" today being synonymous with "presidential office".

    Debatable:
    Washington portrait indicating presence of President, perhaps it was a new tradition.
    Peep hole carved for guard not booth. But did Booth ever use it?

    That's it for the National Park service list.

    1. Re:O'Reilly book never banned from Theatre by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 1

      errr.

      okay, I got one detail wrong. It's not like I confused a Polk with a Peabody. Or get the whole details behind Malmedy wrong. Or any number of other things that Billo's gotten just wrong.

      This false equivalency thing is bullshit. Please stop it.

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
    2. Re:O'Reilly book never banned from Theatre by drnb · · Score: 1

      errr. okay, I got one detail wrong. It's not like I confused a Polk with a Peabody. Or get the whole details behind Malmedy wrong. Or any number of other things that Billo's gotten just wrong. This false equivalency thing is bullshit. Please stop it.

      And none of those things are in the book. *You* picked the book as an example of O'Reilly making things up. *You* claimed the book had been banned. Sorry if your statement was full of it.

      Regarding the cherry picked examples presumably from on air comments during the TV show. He seems on par with the President's Navy corpse man, the Austrian language, special olympics bowling, 57 states, etc. Anyone who gives thousands of hours of on air talk is going to make gaffes like the President and O'Reilly. And such on air talk is quite different than a book. It's quite desperate looking for you to make a false equivalency between the two.

    3. Re:O'Reilly book never banned from Theatre by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 1

      You're what's wrong with politics in America. Assuming you're American, of course.

      No, thousands and thousands of hours doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to eventually make any number of endless gaffes attributed to Bill O'Reilly. Or Sean Hannity. Or any other Fox News blowhard.

      They're a destructive force.

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
  60. Re:Better double check who you pick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes

  61. Occupy was a complete media creation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It had no impact on anything except to fill newspaper headlines in newspapers (a few) who thought OWS was actually relevant.

    They've elected no one, and the only thing they've done is crap on police cars.

    Nothing like an protester complaining about income disparity on his iPhone. Its like a playboy model complaining that everybody stares at her breasts.

    1. Re:Occupy was a complete media creation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So wait ... what? The media didn't even recognize occupy or broadcast anything about it until people made a stink as to why they weren't paying attention and people started getting sprayed with pepper spray. So who created what? I am not saying that all you are saying is false, but don't start with a contrived statement like that as your title and first statement.

  62. Re:Teabaggers == true Amerikuhns by LordLimecat · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Teabagger

    Oops, your bias is showing (maturity level, too).

  63. #firstworldproblems by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

    I got dinner and a roof over my head, other than that, I was on my own. I couldn't afford to see a movie or buy a beer. Once those two years of misery were over, then I moved out.

    That would sound like heaven to 99% of the global population.

    Just sayin' ;-)

  64. Obligatory Mr. Show reference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Couldn't resist linking to this snippet of a Mr. Show episode dealing with protesters. I promise it's funny! :-)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXnnHzu3Y0w

  65. Re:Teabaggers == true Amerikuhns by ArcherB · · Score: 0

    Teabagger

    Oops, your bias is showing (maturity level, too).

    He is also using "Teabagger", a term commonly associated with a homosexual sex act, as an insult. It's the equivalent of calling someone "gay" or a "faggot". That not only makes him bias, but a bigot as well.

    --
    There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
  66. The Authoritarians! Read it! Science! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's a book! It's full of science! It explains the batshit insanity of the right in a readable, amusing manner.

    You owe yourself to give this book a read.

  67. Fear the elected despot by erice · · Score: 1

    Why is everyone so scared of the probability of an Islamic based party being democratically elected without fraud in the middle east?

    When you elect someone who doesn't believe that he should ever be unelected, you get the worst kind of despot: A despot with a mandate. Say goodby to rule of reason and the rights of minorities.

    You also get confirmation that trying to bring peace, stability, and tolerance to the region may be futile. Given the choice, the people will elect the same sort of war mongering religious extremists that we've been struggling against all these years.

    Now, there is no guarantee that it will turn out like that. The Islamists could respect the political process that brought them to power as well as the rights of those who do not share their radical views or even their religion. But the despotic thread is strong enough to be a real worry.

  68. Ah yes, the fascist, authoritarian retort by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Predictable, and right on schedule. Appropriate for a totalitarian. Do the trains run on time in your world?

    I sure hope so, for the sake of the poor railway workers.

  69. Re:Better double check who you pick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, he shot himself in the foot there. Another mistake was in enumerating the decade. The first decade correctly contains the years 2001 - 2010 whereas the 'noughties' contains 2000 - 2009. What he means by political correctness, is that 'Person of the year' became a paradigm shift (philosophical perspective) where the winner should be a political/cultural celebrity. Not as before, someone who was in the news very frequently.

  70. The fact this is insightful... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's nothing "insightful" about this comment.

    The premise here is that only non social conservatives are smart enough to resist manipulation, which is ironic given how many cliches the poster repeats which he learned from other people.

    The entire article is a muddle mess logically, but yet as dumb as it is, he convinced a couple of *even more confused* people to mark it as insightful.

    Its exactly why OWS never made sense, and will be quickly forgotten now that its over.

    The funny part is that a couple of people think they had any sort of influence at all.

  71. Saudi Woman Beheaded for 'Witchcraft by drnb · · Score: 1

    Why is everyone so scared of the probability of an Islamic based party being democratically elected without fraud in the middle east? We should be embracing the fact it's democratic and fraud free and supporting whomever the people choose.

    I realize the following is an extreme case but it is a real case and it occurred this week, not in the distant past. It may help you understand some of the concern and why people are less fearful of governments heading in the secular direction.

    "Saudi Woman Beheaded for 'Witchcraft'"
    http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/saudi-woman-beheaded-witchcraft/story?id=15145041

  72. More people... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    More people showed up at one Tea Party rally in DC than exist in all of OWS. Everywhere.

    Fact.

    The Tea Party got 15 people elected to congress.

    Fact.

    OWS can't even poop in a toilet.

    Fact.

  73. Obama Groupies Staff Time Mag by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Looks like the MSM is gearing up to deliver their 7%.

    1. Re:Obama Groupies Staff Time Mag by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1

      Obama? He's Bush, with a tan.

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
  74. cool protesters. they rock. by Nyder · · Score: 1

    but did they actually change anything?

    because i haven't seen occupy wallstreet stopping anything.

    it did though, give the homeless new places to sleep in the various cities, for that, i applaud them.

    --
    Be seeing you...
  75. huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    like who gives a flying frack about 'Time'? the voice of the 1%

  76. Re:Teabaggers == true Amerikuhns by rtb61 · · Score: 0

    That is not accurate. They called themselves teabaggers and they only stopped when it was pointed out to them other connotation of term, that they stopped.

    Similarly the stole the term 'we shall not forget, we shall not forgive' from 'Anonymous'. They did this whilst claiming to be Christians up until it was pointed out how this coflicted with their 'Lord's prayer', "And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive them that trespass against us", it would seem a lot of tea partiers are hell bound.

    As for Time's choice of person of year, what a bunch of grovelers. No doubt down because of their previous choice http://theaddictiveblog.com/the-difference-between-julian-assange-and-mark-zuckerberg/ and everyone opinion of that choice and how it made Times choice of person of the year redundant.

    --
    Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  77. Re:Teabaggers == true Amerikuhns by oursland · · Score: 1

    He is also using "Teabagger", a term commonly associated with a homosexual sex act, as an insult. It's the equivalent of calling someone "gay" or a "faggot". That not only makes him bias, but a bigot as well.

    You're projecting. Teabagging has long since entered the American lexicon outside of a term strictly used to define an act for sexual gratification. If you don't believe me, put it into the looking glass of American culture, YouTube, and witness for yourself the current usage.

  78. The 99% has incorporated. by Handover+Phist · · Score: 1

    Does anyone else see the irony? It's delicious! Someone spin up "Age Of Aquarius" on the turntable!

  79. Mohamed Bouazizi's death was accidental by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    His actions certainly sparked off the Arab Spring uprising, but he never intended to burn himself to death.

    From: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2011/1125/1224308109672.html

    “He had been drinking and he poured a few drops of kerosene from a bottle on to himself and then lit the lighter – but it was only supposed to be a threat, because he was so angry at the police and the authorities.

    “When he went on fire, they said it was an accident – he held the lighter too close to the bottle. By all accounts it was not planned.”

  80. Dust coat with the restoring ancient ways skirt an by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dust coat with the restoring ancient ways skirt and replica luxuries handbags
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  81. Butterfly in the butterfly effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's not forget that the real butterfly in this nice example of the butterfly effect is Bradley Manning. The disillusionment with the governments came when people in the Arab spring came to read about the extent of the corruption in the Wikileaks cables. These in turn fueled the winds of the Occupy movement by highlighting the nakedness of the western democracies and their politicians protecting only interests of corporations and forgiving huge mistakes of the financial industry with bailouts, regulation stalling and more business as usual... So, in a non-hypocritical world the person of the past few years would definitely be Bradley Manning. Where's the hurricane?

  82. One more reason... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... to not read Time. Bandwaggon-jumping media at its "best".

  83. Mailing it in by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    Time's MOTY is so played out. It's now akin to the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame inductions: really scraping the bottom of the barrel. Citation: when Tom Waits (whom I like a lot) heard he'd been nominated for the RRHOF, he thought it was a joke. It sorta was.

  84. Re:Teabaggers == true Amerikuhns by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 0

    Try living in America with a towel on your head and see how long you last you camel riding hippie. You can be disappeared just because the government doesn't like you; they even have an organization that will grope your balls until you miss your flight to keep dirty Arabs off planes.

    Freedom, liberty, and survival are relevant here.

  85. Re:Teabaggers == true dingbats by Thud457 · · Score: 1

    I prefer to use the term teabaggers because it perfectly underscores the tone-deaf cluenessness of these people. Any immaturity displayed is a unfortunate result of addressing them on their own level. Never wrestle with a pig or argue with an idiot and all that.

    And there's no reason I shouldn't share my personal opinion on some messageboard on teh intarwebs. It's not like I'm being promoted by a multi-billion dollar broadcast network where I routinely pass off opinion and outright falsehoods as fair and "balanced reporting" "in the public interest".

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  86. Re:Teabaggers == true Amerikuhns by Sollord · · Score: 1

    Source please? I know it's a bit much asking for facts on /. but it would be nice.

    I've never seen anyone in the tea party calling themselves a teabagger...

  87. Re:Teabaggers == true Amerikuhns by tehcyder · · Score: 1

    Teabagger

    Oops, your bias is showing (maturity level, too).

    So? What's wrong with being biased against extreme right wing fuckwits? Do you also think it's unfair to criticise neo-Nazis?

    --
    To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  88. Re:Better double check who you pick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I find that mostly irrelevant. That's like saying the term 'mankind' should be known as 'personkind'... and the only time I've ever seen personkind referenced is when making fun of hardcore extreme feminists. They could also just as easily change it to 'woman of the year' as needed, or if it's someone of the LGBT crowd, ask them how they want to be referenced. Person of the year just sounds too damn politically correct... and there's already enough politically correct being jammed down our throats as is.

  89. Re:Teabaggers == true Amerikuhns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We took care of these issues over 200 years ago and now are just refining them. You are just catching up.

  90. Re:Better double check who you pick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The word "man" encompasses all human beings, both male and female.

    Always has.

    Once political correctness came into fashion this was suddenly filed down the memory hole.

  91. Re:Better double check who you pick by Rakarra · · Score: 1

    At the risk of Godwining this thread, Hitler was Time Man of the Year

    Yes, but you forget, he was picked when the editors of Time Magazine actually had balls.

  92. Re:Teabaggers == true Amerikuhns by rbraunm · · Score: 1

    Just so I can understand your point better... Is this a concise statement of what you're saying? "We have it worse so your opinions don't matter. Also, I don't like you, so your opinions don't matter. Also, I think a more than 50% of the world feels the same way I do."

  93. Re:Teabaggers == true Amerikuhns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Our issues deal with freedom, liberty, and survival. You're a typical, ignorant USA-hater. You lack understanding of how our society works. You think everything you see on TV from the USA is indicative of our populace. You're a fucking disgrace to humanity.