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Microsoft Patents Bad Neighborhood Detection
PolygamousRanchKid writes with these lines culled from InformationWeek: "With the grant of their US Patent #8090532 Microsoft may be attempting to corner the market on GPS systems for use by pedestrians, or they may have opened a fertile ground for discrimination lawsuits. ... Described as a patent on pedestrian route production, the patent describes a two-way system of building navigation devices targeted at people who are not in vehicles, but still require the use of such a device to most efficiently route to their destination. ... For example, the user inputs their destination and any constraints or requirements they might have, such as a wheelchair accessible route, types of terrain they are willing to cross, the option of public transportation, and a way point such as the nearest Starbucks on the route. Any previously configured preferences are also considered, such as avoiding neighborhoods that exceed a certain threshold of violent crime statistics (hence the description of this as the 'avoid bad neighborhoods' patent), fastest route, most scenic, etc." Having lived in some high-crime neighborhoods, the actual feature (versus the patent) sounds like a great idea to me.
What you call a bad neighborhood, I may call home. Where do I send the money for the lawsuit?
It seems like dangerous water to tread, though. We all know there'll be lawsuits with people complaining that Bing Maps is avoiding minority neighborhoods.
That's all this is; an algorithm that say don't go this way unless I want to pickup a lady-of-the-night
I mean isn't this one of the things layers in GIS meant for: describing characteristics for points and areas on a map? Simplifying this but after you have done that, doesn't it just come down to some sort of switch or if statements. If so, it sounds like the patent is just too general. Or not? It sounds ridiculous if you ask me though.
-- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
Instead of a dot representing the city on a map it should be a skull and crossbones.
Why should we all have to suffer at the hands of being politically correct? A bad neighborhood is what it is - BAD! It So that someone in that "bad" neighborhood isn't "offended" why should I have to risk my safety?
I wish something like this would have existed when I chose my current house. The neighborhood looks great during the day but once it becomes dark all the bums and the freaks come out. They are all drunk or high and they do things out of "boredom" (as a police officer told me). Like vandalize my car and leave bloody handprints on the glass.
If adoption were widespread, wouldn't automatically avoiding bad neighbourhoods simply be another instance of "white flight", denying neighbourhoods economic input that leads to further poverty and more violence?
An Iphone app called Trapster goes beyond just speed traps to cover other sorts of police activity that may cause closed roads and delay. Could archives of this data set up similar "bad area" avoidances?
Google maps already has a feature that allows you to avoid tolls or "by foot" versions.
Add info from stuff like this:
http://www.nwgangs.com/gang-territory-maps.html
http://maps.google.com/maps/user?uid=200807321660978094818&hl=en&gl=us&ptab=2
And so where's the innovation?
I personally think patents are costing society more than the benefit they provide. Sure a few patents might be worthwhile, but when most of them are crap, what's the point? It's as stupid as throwing money at a game which provides worse odds than most casinos. A few wins don't make up for all the losses.
You want to reward and encourage _people_ for innovating? Award Prizes for Innovation instead. It's always easier to see if something was innovative and valid from hindsight than from an overworked patent examiner's POV. You could have different areas and different categories, some chosen by "randomly selected citizens", and some chosen by "experts in the field". A bit like the Hugo and Nebula awards. That way you get some balance.
If I were a mugger, I'd use it to locate 'good' neighborhoods, and start mugging people there. A device to find new fat hunting grounds. I'd love it.
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
So, imagine getting "on the list". Rightly so, or just by mistake. So I'm sure they will base it on crimerate etc... But still, Now Microsoft will be influencing housing prices etc.. and judging quality of life for you.. hahaha sry..
"Computers are a lot like Air Conditioners" "They both work great until you start opening Windows"
If TomTom or some other competing GPS device manufacturer wants to implement identical functionality without running afoul of the patent, they can simply use demographic data rather than crime data. Since blacks are at least seven times more likely to commit a violent crime and Hispanics three times more likely, it would be just as good to use neighborhood demographic data as a basis for plotting a safer route.
Of course, it would not be as politically correct to admit that race and crime have such a strong correlation. Perhaps a Chinese GPS manufacturer could capitalize on this and sell into the Western market. The Chinese don't give a rat's ass about PC!
Why not suggest using income data instead. That way you don't come off as a racist scumbag. Just sayin'.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
Has been inspired by The Bonfire of the Vanities.
Too bad they didn't patent bad software detection.
Sorry, but gray text on gray background is making my eyes bleed.
Good luck making that work. The government crime data that this feature will be using is usually out of date and highly massaged by police departments and officials with a stake in the crime rates. See, for example this NY Times article.
the growth in cynicism and rebellion has not been without cause
Why not suggest using income data instead. That way you don't come off as a racist scumbag. Just sayin'.
That strategy does not work, you end up avoiding mostly harmless low income areas, like university student areas and old folks homes where the income level almost by definition is nothing but SS checks.
Also both race and income are kind of meaningless in the office park neighborhood where I work, but crime rates DO vary heavily based on location (probably because one border is on the bar scene, and the other border is basically completely uninhabited industrial buildings)
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
If most travelers stop taking their trips through "bad neighborhoods"; e.g. almost everyone starts avoiding so called bad neighborhoods, even the criminals, it's possible this will create more traffic and therefore more crime for so called "good neighborhoods"
Which as a result, become "less good". Also, if the pedestrian travelers who need GPS to navigate the city are seen as the ideal target/mark (they don't know the lay of the land), then that means criminals have incentive to pick new stomping grounds.
As they do so... more "good neighborhoods" turn into bad neighborhoods... so use of the device could be self-limiting. Before you know it, all neighborhoods are bad neighborhoods, due to routing many of the ideal/ vulnerable "targets" for crime through them.
Yeah, the first thing I do when I'm in an unfamiliar town is start wandering around after I abandon my car. Really, I mean who wants to drive around in a car when you can really experience the unfamiliarity in person? The ONE good use for this would be for those new to an area and unable to afford vehicles that need to walk or bike around looking for jobs. Oh wait, they probably won't be able to afford a GPS or a smartphone capable enough for this technology. How about something useful? Like vandal/theft statistics on parked cars. I don't know about you, but if I'm in an unfamiliar area I'm always looking for a nice, well-lit parking area that I won't have to worry about a hit and run or some bored piece of crap with sharp scrap of metal. I'd like to really trick out my car but that would be like a neon sign advertising that I have an aftermarket stereo system. I've already had to teach a lesson to little teen bitches that took a picture of my car, 'scouting' for the thieves.
I was mugged by an old person you insensitive clod.
Against MS not people driving. It's one thing to observe that a neighborhood has a disproportionate number of muggings and individually opt not to go there and quite another to publish that without any of the statistics for the use of other people.
That is the most racist thing I have heard in a while. Racism is when you discriminate based on race. You would be doing exactly that... Just like so-called affirmative action... Both are racist concepts that have no place in a civil society.
Also, this patent, and my behavior when choosing a route, have nothing to do with race. They are are based on crime statistics. I don't want to be mugged or shot by a white guy any more than by some other race.
Basing something on crime statistics is NOT racist. It is CRIMIST... Why do people jump to race when it comes to crime?
donut?
Anyway, stay out of Memphis.
We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion.
I can see a few possible problems with this.
1) Lag/delay in statistics. If the feature is abused as described in some of the posts above, an area considered safe can be unsafe for a while before the statistics catches up with reality. The opposite is also true; an area that has been "cleaned up" may be considered unsafe for a while.
2) Different types of violent crime. Not all violent crimes occur in the streets; domnestic violence is (at least where I live) considered a violent crime, and it is also a lot more common than unprovoked violence on the streets. At least that is what the police says - in the statistics they are bundled.
3) Seasonal / time of day differences. I live in a city that is flooded by tourists in the summer. Violent crimes increases significantly during those few months, and most of those crimes occur late evenings / nights when people at clubs/bars/pubs are drunk. Still, statistics for specific areas are compiled on a yearly basis.
4) In sparse areas, a single crime can have a huge impact in the statistics. Looking at statistics compiled "per capita", the area where I grew up had a 200% increase in violent crimes one year. It went from one case of domnestic violence to three - or 20/1000 per capita.
If you can avoid the neighborhood might just allow you to find them easier.
"...but the number of racist assholes posting to this thread makes me think it's time to require that people selling homes in neighbourhoods with a very high proportion of white people (say, more than 95%) be required to sell only to members of ethnic minorities."
Ummm....so you are advocating forcing White people to sell houses for less than they are worth? There are already laws prohibiting people selling homes based on race. So if a White neighborhood is "too white" for your tastes, then it's most likely because not enough Black people looking to buy in the area can afford the asking price.
A sentence you'll never see on an Internet discussion board: "You know what? You're right."
Eh they already do that in some places. I forget the term for it but when new developments are being planned there's a requirement for a certain percentage of units being "affordable", and in any urban environment in the US that's got a decent enough correlation with race that IS a quota.
It wouldn't be a big deal except that there's not enough police presence to patrol so many different neighborhoods. You really need constant vigilance and harsh consequences to keep a small section of bad houses from ruining a whole neighborhood. I feel sorry for the kids in those neighborhoods who live in the good houses. They're not used to dealing with gangs and the like and it's really not fair for them.
The original independent claims looked like this:
After prosecution, this is what they ended up with. Try rendering this mess legally obvious:
And people around here complain that the USPTO doesn't do its job. Heh.
Except Google will have gone bust since all their shiny robots are in some chop shop resting on bricks instead on wheels.
20 minutes into the future
Oh dear.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
No. You can always not sell your home until you get the price you want
And BTW, did it occur to you that if black people can't afford your prices, there might be a reason for that?
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Oh dear, you are a sly one, aren't you?
Nobody has ever won an argument on the internet and it is completely valid to walk away when somebody comes over as a bit of a prat.
.
Mr Coward, eh? I once watched a movie starring Noel Coward. Are you by chance related?
20 minutes into the future
Really, I don't care. You're asking me to be against negative discrimination against a group that generally benefits from discrimination (people like me) to correct centuries of contemptable discrimination.
Does affirmative action have a place in a civil society? A better question is: does a civil society have any need for affirmative action?
Once we've dealt with the neighborhood problem, and after a few decades of blacks and whites, you know, actually living together and treating each other as equals, we'll have that civil society you're talking about. We'll discuss ending positive discrimination then, mmm 'kay?
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Bad neighborhods? Like small towns and cities where the police are revenue hungry extortionists, and a greater constant threat than the average door shaker.
I don't agree with the OP, but I also don't agree with calling affirmative action "racist." Racism isn't just treating different races differently, a typical definition (wikipedia) is "the belief that inherent different traits in human racial groups justify discrimination".
Affirmative action is the opposite, it is based on the idea (flawed or not) that 1) groups should be treated the same, 2) the current situation is that they are not, and 3) the most effective way to move things toward equal treatment is to compensate by giving extra advantages to those who are otherwise disadvantaged due to racism.
Whether or not you agree with this, it is not racist. But it does indeed distort the free market, which often is a bad thing.
"No. You can always not sell your home until you get the price you want"
So, lets say I have my house on the market for 6 months, and in the time only 3 families come and offer the price I want. But they all happen to be White. Are you suggesting that I should be forced to keep my house on the market even longer until a family of a race that you approve of comes along?
"And BTW, did it occur to you that if black people can't afford your prices, there might be a reason for that?"
I don't see your point. Are you trying to imply that that's somehow my problem if they can't?
A sentence you'll never see on an Internet discussion board: "You know what? You're right."
"after a few decades of blacks and whites, you know, actually living together and treating each other as equals"
Careful. Under what you were proposing under previous posts, you'd end up with the whites resenting the blacks for forcing them to sell homes below what they are worth, or forcing them to not be able to sell their home until one of "them" came along. You're not going to end up with the civil society you are hoping for that way.
A sentence you'll never see on an Internet discussion board: "You know what? You're right."
That means I'll have to walk through a council estate on the way to work or Microsoft might sue me.
Basing something on crime statistics is NOT racist. It is CRIMIST
Why are police told not to "target" ethnic groups who are more likely to commit certain crimes then?
That's the problem, MS isn't publishing statistics, they're interpreting the statistics and telling people what to think about it. That's a very different situation from providing the statistics and the analysis.
And considering how many problems we've had in the US due to segregation I really don't think that needlessly scaring people away from driving through a particular neighborhood is going to accomplish anything useful. The amount of time that one spends driving through a bad neighborhood just isn't sufficient to worry about in most cases. Now, if you happen to own an unreliable vehicle and are driving through at night, that might warrant avoidance. But in general you're much more likely to get murdered in your own neighborhood than somebody elses.
``you end up avoiding mostly harmless low income areas, like university student areas ''
Come again?
Hi APK. Why U Poast AC?
Your anger issues amuse me greatly.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Are you pretending that in urban neighborhood environments there's no correlation between income/education and crime? Ok then.
Oh boy.
Keep digging.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
No, I think using the term "Memphrica" is racist and stupid.
Using crime statistics to avoid high-risk areas (regardless of demographics) is not stupid.
We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion.
Oh just ignore it. The principle, long established by dittoheads, is to take any accusation of racism and respond with "I'm not a racist, you're a racist". It's idiotic, it ignores the fundamental issues, but the idea is to try to get liberals on the defensive. If you do that, you don't need to address the fundamental issues they're complaining about.
The person you're responding to doesn't care, in all honesty, about whether I might have implied that the underlying cause of the racism shown by many posters in this thread might be fixed by legal mandates that encourage people of different races to live in the same neighborhoods. What he wants is the status quo.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
It'll affect a relatively low number of neighborhoods, essentially those with an extremely high proportion of one race, and the quota will disappear as soon as it's filled. I don't see why there would be that many people resenting it. If 5% of homes must be owned by ethnic minorities, then it'd stand to reason that even in an environment in which neighborhoods are currently 100% white, 100% latino, 100% black, etc, at worst 5% of whites would be affected.
I don't see that we're talking about much lower prices either. The homes in my neighborhood, which seems to be a predominantly white area, aren't especially expensive right now, and aren't much lower than the predominately black area across the highway. Everyone who's upset about this who isn't upset because of the whole "OMG! BLACK PEOPLE LIVING NEXT DOOR!" element seems to be obsessed with edge cases.
Whatever the right solution is, it's time to do something about it.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
No, you are suggesting that I sell my house at lower than market value. If I want to sell my house at $300k and 3 White families make me an offer for that price, then the fair market price is $300k. If only one Black family came along and made an offer at $200k after that, that doesn't suddenly make the fair market value $200k. In this scenario, I want to sell my house within 6 months for $300k. You are saying that I should not be allowed to do that if no Black families can meet that criteria. How is that not "forcing"??
Or, I can vote Republican to reduce the chances of totalitarian policies such as what you are suggesting affecting how I sell my house or where I live. If you don't like that choice, tough. (Mind you, there are many things Republicans do to piss me off, particularly the Religious Right - but I realize that crap like that is less likely to effect how I live my life in the end.)
Oh please....we can go all day on that never-ending spiral. At this point it's not solely the fault of "Big Bad Whitey" that the situation is what it is today.
Because my ancestors came to the US in the late 20's and lived in the NYC area. In fact, they were discriminated against back then, themselves. They never owned slaves or did anything to oppress Black people. No, it is NOT my problem.
A sentence you'll never see on an Internet discussion board: "You know what? You're right."
... for pedestrians.
I mean, seriously, what's the inventive step here? Navigation has been around a long time. Navigation based on various user-entered constraints has been around a long time (look at the truck navigation systems, where you can enter type of vehicle and any hazmats you're carrying). Navigation for pedestians has been around for a while (see Google Maps). So what's changed, they've added a few more constraints?
Sue MS for leading you there... This is America, it'll happen
Er, no - I don't want to sell my house to somebody that is not willing or able to pay the highest offer I get for my house. What is wrong with that? If the family that offers the highest bid happens to be Black, I have no problem at all selling it to them. The race of the highest bidder should not matter at all, right?
I must have missed the part where you added that the "victims" of that system must take on some of the responsibility of fixing things as well.
A sentence you'll never see on an Internet discussion board: "You know what? You're right."
patent racism.
yeah, i know, bad pun. but it begged to be said.
who prays for Satan? Who in 18 centuries has had the humanity to pray for the 1 sinner that needed it most? ~Mark Twain
patent racism.
Yeah, I know bad pun. But it was begging to be said.
who prays for Satan? Who in 18 centuries has had the humanity to pray for the 1 sinner that needed it most? ~Mark Twain
Mapquest web used to automatically route you around the ghetto. They were sued, and lost, and had to turn off that functionality. Now MS has a Patent on it?
Seriously, our patent system is royally hosed. When one company can take a technology that has already been invented, tried, and sued out of existence, and claim ownership of it, something is seriously wrong.
The USPTO takes the bottom 25% of engineering graduates fresh out of college with no experience and pays them $80K/year to examine technology they don't even slightly understand, and expects quality results (or maybe they don't). That is known as an utterly broken system.
It's not even as difficult as traveling salesman, it's just Single Source Shortest Path with weighted edges. There are tons of well documented algorithms, my favorite being Djikstra's because it's fun to spell.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
"Having lived in some high-crime neighborhoods, the actual feature (versus the patent) sounds like a great idea to me"
oh yeah? and how would such a device help in that situation -- other than not plotting routes from or to your home?
Just a big company money dump to patent something unpatentable -->> a concept, in an attempt to try and force out smaller company innovation and grab some headlines – but then again typical Microsoft! My company Street Smart USA has developed a much more complete and valuable data model which has been available for years on TomTom and Garmin GPS units as well as on Smartphones. Targeting area such as ghettos offers little to no value to the traveler, nor do simple crime statistics. The use of crime statistics is very limiting as their reporting and availability it often outdated and absent, especially in smaller city or towns. I call what Microsoft is presenting the “spider-web perception”. The inaccurate assumption that criminals sit in their neighborhoods – their ‘webs’ if you will, waiting to prey on infrequent unsuspecting victims that may stumble into it. That’s simply not how it works. Criminals are opportunists and that doesn’t afford a lot of opportunity. Violent crimes are not concentrated or limited within ghettos or low income areas. In fact, a large part of violent crimes occur in bordering neighborhoods, areas with high gain potential for criminals or areas where volumes of unsuspecting targets traffic. High risk and unsafe area identification is far more complex then that. Our product identifies and alerts users of potentially unsafe areas which have been identified using a number of key data elements and proprietary algorithms that accurately mark areas as unsafe to personal or property safety. If you want a product that is proven with years of development, analysis, expertise and a track record that reflects true personal safety - then please visit http://www.streetsmart-usa.com./
Sources, please.