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Hawaiian Bill Would Force ISPs to Track Users' Web Histories For 2 Years
New submitter mazinger writes "In Hawaii, a bill has been proposed to retain data on Internet users and the sites they visit. Apparently, there is also no requirement for a warrant to obtain the information from service providers. The bill affects not only ISPs but also coffee shops and anyone providing Internet access."
Why not just force every citizen to post a continuous blog of their every activity at every moment of every day for all time?
That way, we could all rest assured that our safety is being protected.
[10/Oct/2012:13:55:36 -0700] "CONNECT https://www.hydemyass.com/ HTTP/1.0" 200 2326
Lone Gunmen crew.
I'm sure this law will be overturned by the Supreme Court as unconstitutional after a few years of lawsuits and appeals.
One might claim since so much of web commercial activity is trans-border, only the feds can pass this type of law.
Hawaiians, vote this bill down!
You see, I'm an internet Troll. I have no life. I do this because I'd drink ....well, I take that back. I drink and Troll.
If you vote for this and it spreads to other states, I'd have no choice but to hang out in front of Apple Stores with a sandwich board that says nasty things about Apple users.
Then, after I call a few men "Apple Fags",. they'd kick my ass and send me to the hospital. Now since I'm unemployed, I have no health insurance which means the hospitial will have to eat it. They then will pass the costs on to insured patients thereby increasing the overall costs of healthcare hurting you!
So, vote this bill down so that we all can keep healthcare costs down!
Once again we see a proposed law that will only impact law abiding people (and be a major invasion of their privacy to boot).
If I was intent on covering my tracks I could take so many routes:
- Download Tor and use it to privatize all my browsing
- Search for open SOCKS proxies, etc. to exploit
- Rent a VPS out of state and set up a proxy on it
and any one of hundreds of other approaches to take...
Camera on head time,grafted to skulls?
If the ISPs had any balls, they'd tell the HI government that, if they pass this law, the ISPs would simply cease to provide internet service to HI residents. And if they do pass the bill, make good on the promise. It's either that or be forced by the HI government to buy terabytes of disk space and thousands of dollars of computers to track everything the HI internet user does. Politicians should not make laws about technology that they don't understand.
how about they implant a GPS tracker in everyone's ass so they know exactly where they've been for the last 2 years.
wtf ... this is getting out of hands.
.. you hand over all records of your finances, political backing, lobbyist funding, and implant a GPS/Audio/Video unit in your body. So we can microscopically assess your soul we'll let you track our activity over the internet.
I suspect this is just another bait and switch though, push out some extravagant bill that they don't expect 75% of to pass, then whittle it down to something less volatile but still infringe on our privacy.
Now McDonald's is using SMS to log identities. This means now only the big guys can afford offer free Internet access.
Just another way to crush the little guy.
John Mizuno wants to make sure his glorious mustache will be safe from the terrorists.
Seriously, don't they have enough problems in Hawaii? The hotels are pumping mad sewage into the coral reef and they care about what people do on the internet?
Hawaiians - Stick to making the Punch
The only way to fight this in the long run is data pollution.
I heard about it in another thread that Pirate Bay adds fake IP addresses to the real ones.
In the long run more sophisticated tools for this purpose will emerge, and Anon can graduate from the LOIC to something that will have a permanent impact.
We won SOPA, and a major website is taken down the next day.
It is obvious that preventing laws like this is not going to stop data retention in the long run.
The path forward is to destroy the credibility of the data they collect.
How about if people propose and pass a law specifically banning ISPs from tracking their users or keeping logs on their web histories under any circumstances?
Does anybody have any idea what suddenly possessed Hawaii to freak out about that 'internet' thing that those hackers and terrorists are using?
Has the state been chosen as a soft target in which to pass model legislation by some sinister entertainment industry and/or surveillance state interest group? Is some two-bit local senator trying to weather a 'caught-with-2.5-prostitutes-in-a-blood-soaked-bed' scandal? Are radical Hawaiian nativists waging a guerrilla war to re-establish the monarchy? WTF?
The biggest threat are these lawmakers. We need laws to protect us from lawmakers!!!
www.Migrainesoft.com - Computer giving you a headache? We can fix that!
How could a ragtag bunch of geeks and nerds* make this bill go away..
Hmmm..
How much of Hawaii's economy is based on tourism?
Get this story out there, and let Hawaii's elected officials, and it's local news channels, know we'll all be boycotting Hawaii as a tourist destination if this passes.
Write, email, call hotel/resort chains, telling them the same thing.
Airlines too, while we're at it.
If one thing can come form SOPA/PIPA, I hope that it generates *continued* involvement, engagement, and action by the tech community as a whole. The apathy, laziness, and silence needs to end.
Just my $0.02US
*I am a geek/nerd, and I vote: at the ballot box, and with my wallet.
about technology that they don't understand."
In point of fact Politicians should not make laws about any issue (technological or otherwise) that they don't understand!!
You assume that you'll survive the beating. If you don't then there is no healthcare cost and nothing of value was lost.
His companion computer crime bill appears to make stealing your neighbors WiFi a felony, that is, if it isn't already.
"unauthorized computer access in the 3rd degree from a misdemeanor to a class C felony." Or if you get online somehow without being "documented" so maybe VPN connections or SSH?
Another "democrat" has stuck another bill in there with the same wording most likely in case one doesn't make it through the other will, seeing a lot fo this the same bill different names, sneaky.
This seems thuggish and since the records are open to anyone (except most likely the actual person being documented) it appears to have other uses in mind.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
I hate to be the one to tell you this, but that particular comic does not apply to every slashdot article that has appeared this morning.
this signature has been removed due to a DMCA takedown notice
This is probably just the first step towards getting something like this pushed nationally. I guess I better start helping my folks use SSH forwarding.
Before any tracking bills should be passed, I think we need at least 5 years time spent under another preceding bill. In the bill we would require that all people and their staff running for office and all people in office and their staff are monitored.
That way we have information showing that they are in fact not terrorists themselves looking to topple the city/state/country in regulations and other costs.
Plus it shows if the people themselves are tied to other entities (corporations) who may have interests that line up with terrorist activities.
I suspect we'd find a lot of foreign interests at at work, terrorist or not. Which should be fully disclosed before pushing through bills like this.
Just fill their stupid database with so much junk information that the data is worthless. Run a program that mimicks regular internet use to sites you usually go to, and a whole bunch of others.
"Mr. Doe, can you explain your reasons for visiting these illicit sites on these 137 different occasions?"
"Yeah. I run a program on my computer that randomly loads websites. Wanna see? Thanks for wasting my time and tax dollars. Can I go now?"
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
We're rapidly headed towards a police state! If you live in Hawaii and are registered to vote there, please, please write your representatives and have this defeated. For one, it is a gross invasion of privacy. For another, it is a huge and needless expense on the ISP. The ISP is burdened with extra server and storage needs as a result of such politician shortsightedness. Think of the expense that it places on small businesses like coffee shops and smaller motels that provide wireless access as a courtesy. Now, they have to purchase servers for data archival. Additionally, this is a burden on tax payers because it will be expensive to enforce. Your politcians should be working to improve lives, not increase the reach of the state. Last time I checked, the economy was poor. Tell your representatives to work on fixing the economy, not trying to make things safer through the enactment of senseless laws.
From the PDF:
The required data for the consumer records shall include each subscriber's information and internet destination history information. Destination information shall include any of the following:
So it seems that the ISP (or whichever entity is charged with retaining the info) would have a choice. It would be interesting to know which piece of information they would prefer to log. (I suppose they could log all three, but would they want to? Are ISPs that creepy?)
If they choose to log only IP addresses, that could be ambiguous (at least in cases of shared hosting). If they choose to log domain names, that info would likely be taken from the clients' DNS queries, unless the ISP is looking deeper in the packets. If they're logging the host name, I'm guessing that would come out of the HTTP header, which I don't think would be possible when SSL/TLS is being used.
I'm not sure if I have a point, but it seems there would be a big chunk of traffic that ISPs wouldn't be able to properly log without deep-packet inspection.
...if it has expanded provisions for public employees, particularly legislative, executive and judicial officers of the state. The expanded provisions would include publicly accessible, 24x365 audio/video/GPS monitoring, real-time transcription of all conversations (whether in person, by phone, email, telegraph, sign-language, semaphore, IP over Avian Carrier or whatever) and detailed, publicly accessible accounting of all cash, credit, loan, barter, swap, IOU, promissory and other transactions, transfers, exchanges, conveyances or transformations of wealth, goods, property, influence, information, intellectual property, favors or anything else of any conceivable value.
This is, of course, all in the interest of protecting the children (from growing up in a totalitarian surveillance state) and to curb terrorism (by the state, against it's people and their rights)
They are public employees after all, and since they should have nothing to hide, they should have nothing to fear.
Citizens will bear the cost of this monitoring (because the providers will pass it on to them), but only the media will benefit.
Why would we want to pass a law that gives the media the power to monitor us? Even worse, why would we want to pay for the indignity?
That Hawaiian legislator is not looking out for the people who voted for him. He's looking out for the people who paid for him.
Long form, please, available to anybody who asks.
This could eliminate a lot of problems!
Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
I work for an ISP and was involved in a project in which we were just trying to monitor DHCP requests from users for a study... The size of the log files were upwards of 6gigabytes per DAY. If we actually tried to track and time stamp every IP they hit? It wouldn't even be remotely possible. The amount of data and the numbers of people and software required to pull it off would dwarf our entire operation. And that's BEFORE everyone starts messing with the system. People could just set up scripts to randomly ping IPs all day long and it would devastate any logging system in short order. There's no way the ISPs would put up with this.
That guy is the meanest hombre this side of the International Date Line!
Isn't Google going to be doing this for them soon anyway?
http://www.amazon.com/Lacey-His-Friends-David-Drake/dp/0671655930
An excellent collection of short stories..
if memory serves their society found 3 overlapping cameras for every visible point were the number required to ensure their totalitarian society would continue with status quo.
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
hold the sarcasm please.
the contents of a phone call is protected solidly with laws re; privacy.. so too is the content of an envelope.
but the fact that I called someone? and what number I called? and how long I was on the line? not so protected.
They don't want the content of every packet.. they want to tie the endpoint IP's and timestamps... to a person....
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
Good point. Google already has logs of 90% of the shit you do online anyways so if you feel embarrassed for visiting ashemaletube.com when your wife was out getting groceries or searching for "scrotum fungus" after that especially humid June in 2010 well get over it because all that info is already stored away in an anonymous data center somewhere for the rest of eternity.
I'm behind seven proxies !!1!
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Probably one of those Ultra Conservative Pot smokers that does not want to ask people not in his own circle what the good web sites to visit are. Another closet human being.
So what your saying is politicians should not make laws. They never did understand anything about the laws they write, they bring in experts to advise them, more often then not nowadays its an expert from a lobbing group.
if (fine < cost_to_comply)
ignore_law();
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
How about passing a law that says if you believe you have nothing to hide, you are forbidden from wearing clothes. Ever.
Recall the fuckers sponsoring the bill.
Stop fucking around, don't negotiate, just start the recall process to fire the fuckers.
If manage to get it passed, recall all the fuckers who voted for it as well.
It would be by far not the only unfunded mandate. If all ISPs have to buy logging hardware, then all ISPs can raise their prices to pass on the newly increased cost of doing business onto their customers.
Hopefully to be modded into the light of day...
There are two sides to Hawaii: Honolulu/Oahu (and parts of Maui) are developed places with real infrastructure, but the rest of the state is generally a depressed backwater with pockets of third-world conditions.
The Big Island is home to many huge subdivisions which have no consumer broadband: Telcom won't deploy DSL, and the cable company won't bother because it's not profitable -- this even includes parts of Hilo, which is the most-developed town on the east side of the island. Dial-up internet is very common here, but there are even places with no POTS service.
Increasing the costs of something we don't already have is the surest way to make sure these services are never deployed, which makes me really wonder about the underlying agenda.
someone warn Hawian Bill Quick, I heard Santa Barbara Joe was looking for him after that game last night.
DuckDuckGo via tor:
http://3g2upl4pq6kufc4m.onion/
Newzbin via tor:
http://sc3njt2i2j4fvqa3.onion/
Slashdot, it's your turn.
So the rationale for this legislation is that some state representative is distressed by the potential for losing a popularity contest with a person who claims she owes them money? For that they're going to start spying on everyone in the state?
... either way, keep your friggin' grubby paws off the internet!
If she has an issue with this individual, the courts provide redress for her to sue him on the basis of slander (if it's not true); if it is true, then the person who's putting up the information has a rightful claim to make it in a public venue (like the internet). So pay the bill lady or take it to court
Howz about a plug in/app like TrackMeNot that just crawls the net, at superhuman speed 24 fucking 7 - 365. ( except when I'm surfing smut :^) )
They want data. I say we give the weasels their data.
This sig is not paradoxical or ironic.
I am writing in opposition to HB 2288, which if enacted will impose onerous reporting requirements on anyone providing Internet access in the State of Hawaii and expose the citizens of Hawaii to the possible exposure of their online habits.
This Bill requires any "company that provides access to the Internet" (sec. 1, line 6-7) to "retain customer records" including "each subscriber's information and internet destination history information" for "no less than two years" (sec. 1, lines 14-17). The "internet destination history information" is to include the Internet protocol address, domain name, or host name of every destination contacted by a subscriber.
It is no business of the State (or my Internet provider, for that matter) what sites I visit on the Internet. Most Internet providers currently have their subscribers' information, but very few record the destination of the subscribers' connections. This Bill would impose a requirement on all Internet providers to record and retain this information, which would require a large investment in equipment and network configuration expertise to achieve.
It is also unclear to whom this Bill would apply. Clearly the intent is for it to apply to Internet Service Providers, but given the language of "company that provides access to the Internet", it could be held to apply to coffe shops, hotels, Internet cafes, or even the individual who fails to secure a wireless home Internet router. For even moderately busy providers, this would be a huge amount of data which must be recorded and stored.
More importantly, there is no provision in this Bill to safeguard the information collected. Data on an individual's Internet traffic habits could be extremely sensitive - for example, an employer might be able to discover that an employee participates in workplace safety discussions from his/her home, information that the individual might not want the employer to know about. Under this Bill, there is no prohibition against Internet providers selling this sensitive customer information to anyone,
nor are there any provisions requiring judicial review before the State (police, prosecutors, etc.) acquire these records.
As the manager of a corporate Internet-connected network, would this Bill require me to monitor all of my organization's users' Internet traffic? That would be a huge invasion of their privacy. If not, then the Bill is useless, since all traffic from my organization appears (to my upstream provider) to come from a single Internet address. How would this Bill accomplish anything in this case?
In summary, this is a poorly thought out, fundamentally flawed Bill that would do nothing to solve any current or even perceived problem, would impose onerous data retention and reporting requirements on all providers of Internet connectivity, and would expose the citizens of Hawaii to an unprecedented invasion of their privacy. I urge you to reject this Bill.
The HI government would have to back down, I am very certain of that.
me: *dials ISP* ... ...
isp: Hello, blah blah blah, may I have your account number?
me: Yeah, blah blah blah
isp: How can we help you today Mr. Blah?
me: Well, I've got a bit of an emergency here, I need you to look through my web usage history and tell me what site I was on yesterday at 11:47 PM.
isp: I'm sorry Mr. Blah, I don't...
me: See, I'm not at my computer right now, I'm on the bus surfing from my phone and I'm trying to remember who the fine ass b*tch was that I was jerking it to last night.
isp:
me: I know it was around a quarter till midnight because the rebroadcast of Charlie Rose was on the TV in the room and couldn't masturbate with Charlie Rose in my field of vision, so I had to turn the TV off.
isp:
isp: I'm sorry Mr. Blah but we do not have access to that information. Is there anything else I can help you with today?
me: Well, I was really hoping to get that URL before my stop which is about 5 minutes away. But, while I've got you on the line, you know, uh, I don't know if anyone has ever told you this, but you've got a really pretty voice..
Stupider like a fox! - H.S.
Lets get real communist then lets track peoples TV viewing history too.
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/Legislature_tables_bill_to_keep_track_of_.html?id=138156144
State lawmakers have tabled a proposal that would have required Internet service providers to retain all Hawaii consumers' subscriber data and browsing histories for a minimum of two years.
Introduced a way to combat Internet-related crime, House Bill 2288 received support from Honolulu's police and prosecutor departments and one individual, but was otherwise greeted with vehement opposition at a hearing Thursday.
Opponents of the legislation expressed concerns about privacy and the costs associated with storing such large volumes of data.
Others told House members the sweeping Hawaii proposal made the widely-protested "Stop Online Piracy Act" and "Protect Intellectual Property/IP Act" before look mild by comparison.
The House Economic Revitalization and Business Committee decided to hold off on state action to see what happens with online piracy legislation in Congress.
"Oh, you hate your job? There's a support group for that, it's called everyone, they meet at the bar."
I refuse to accept this. While Tor doesn't resolve all spying completely it does prevent your ISP and government from easily violating your privacy. If you aren't supporting Tor now is the time to do it!
Setup a server, install Tor on your computer. You don't have to use it yourself. Just set it up as a relay. An Exit node even better. If you are concerned about the government abusing its power and raiding you as a result of operating a node simply go the relay route. Users of Tor won't be able to use your node in a way that might be a hassle for you.
Installing Tor is really really easy. All it takes on Debian GNU/Linux is apt-get install tor and editing a few lines in the torrc file. On Ubuntu and other platforms you need to add the Tor repository (for security reasons) first. If you run it on a Microsoft Windows desktop it is easy enough too. Just download install. There is a GUI for it. There is also one for GNU/Linux.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/16610756/hawaii-tables-sweeping-internet-tracking-bill
Surprisingly, all of the positive feedback was from Honolulu law enforcement and prosecutor's departments. Everyone else that gave testimony said "this is STUPID."
I live in Hawaii and will be keeping an eye on this one.
Easiest way to track web traffic is by logging DNS queries.
So... if you're thinking about murdering someone and don't want the fact that you were looking up poisons to come up in your trial... consider using an alternate DNS service and possibly a web proxy.
If you're just looking up porn... or whatever... I don't see the reason to bother.
The thing I find so amusing about these laws is that they tend to be so technically ignorant. I mean... civil rights aside... they're just stupid. It's like banning someone from smoking an illegal drug by instructing a store that doesn't sell the drug to track purchases of the drug.
I mean... okay... what does that accomplish? You're going to get lots of nothing.
Granted, laws like this will catch stupid criminals but that's it.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
We can then just pass information through DNS and a few hundred billion addresses directly instead of messing with all this html stuff. Of course that would mean they could take *all* my shit for their investigation.
I wrote Rep Mizuno and Senator Tokuda asking why they'd sponsor such legislation> Tokuda replied and said she did so as a courtesy, at the request of another representative:
Thank you for emailing me with your concerns about SB2530.
Minority Floor Leader Representative Kymberly Pine met with me and requested that I introduce SB2530 as the companion measure of her House Bill, which she drafted as a result of personal experiences.
As with many bills requested to be introduced by citizens for the purpose of discussion, colleague’s requests hold similar importance. Whether you agree or disagree with the action or direction being proposed, a key tenant of the legislative process is an opportunity and a Constitutional right for people to have their voices heard.
Creativity, innovation, engagement and freedom of speech are among a great list of important features offered by the Internet and it is vital that we as lawmakers continue to enable the fostering of future growth and collaboration. At the same time, it is our job to ensure that citizens’ rights are protected. Thus, as the Internet evolves, it is important for all of us to have continued discussion.
While you may be disappointed that this bill was introduced, I hope this helps you better understand why I honored the request of a colleague. The hope is that the legislative process is an open forum where ideas that we both agree and disagree with can be debated and discussed.
oh: all their email addresses are available on the Hawaii government web site.
The bill was dropped yesterday.
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9223770/Hawaii_legislators_bid_aloha_to_controversial_data_retention_bill