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Study Finds Growing Up WIth Gadgets Has a Downside: Social Skill Impairment

PolygamousRanchKid writes with this excerpt from a CNN story:"Tween girls who spend much of their waking hours switching frantically between YouTube, Facebook, television and text messaging are more likely to develop social problems, says a Stanford University study published in a scientific journal on Wednesday. Young girls who spend the most time multitasking between various digital devices, communicating online or watching video are the least likely to develop normal social tendencies, according to the survey of 3,461 American girls aged 8 to 12 who volunteered responses. The study only included girls who responded to a survey in Discovery Girls magazine, but results should apply to boys, too, Clifford Nass, a Stanford professor of communications who worked on the study, said in a phone interview. Boys' emotional development is more difficult to analyze because male social development varies widely and over a longer time period, he said."

203 comments

  1. Seriously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Then why do we have social networks aimed at children then?

    1. Re:Seriously by rrohbeck · · Score: 4, Informative

      For the same reason we have TV aimed at children.

    2. Re:Seriously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Say, rrohback, do you hmmmmm like bananas?

    3. Re:Seriously by crutchy · · Score: 1

      same reason why marketing companies use children in study groups to find out how to better exploit them into getting their parents to buy more useless garbage... oh did i say useless garbage, i meant "learning aids"

    4. Re:Seriously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AC, do you like movies about... gladiators?

  2. Not News by sunderland56 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Where do you think the whole middle-aged-guy-living-in-parents-basement meme comes from?

    The only new thing here is that it happens to girls, as well as guys.

    1. Re:Not News by tm2b · · Score: 2

      The big difference is that now, the guys can find the girls on-line and they can talk, get to know each other on-line, bond over how different they feel, and start dating.

      Seriously, this isn't stunting; it's empirically a shift in human social behavior.

      --
      "It is our blasphemy which has made us great, and will sustain us, and which the gods secretly admire in us." - Zelazny
    2. Re:Not News by oakgrove · · Score: 1

      But-but-but millenials and digital-natives and blah blah blah... Listen up people, just because you can update your twitface status at 4 years old doesn't make you special. Best selling books blowing rainbows up your ass notwithstanding.

      --
      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    3. Re:Not News by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The only new thing here is that it happens to girls, as well as guys.

      No it doesn't, they did a survey to see how many girls FELT they had impaired social skills. If anything it says young girls have low self esteem.

    4. Re:Not News by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Where do you think the whole middle-aged-guy-living-in-parents-basement meme comes from? The only new thing here is that it happens to girls, as well as guys.

      See, Bill Shatner had it nailed years ago...

    5. Re:Not News by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      The big difference is that now, the guys can find the girls on-line and they can talk, get to know each other on-line, bond over how different they feel, and start dating.

      And it's at that point where the teenage girl discovers that her boyfriend is actually forty-five, weighs three hundred pounds and lives in his mother's basement (and his mother is the mummified corpse sitting in the armchair).

    6. Re:Not News by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Uh, I'm living in my parent's basement because I'm unemployed. My parents felt sorry for me so they let me stay with them. Finding a job is tough. I wish I could move out.. but I need a job to move out.

      actually, I don't know where "the whole middle-aged-guy-living-in-parents-basement meme comes from." Do you know something that I don't? I'm not sure what you are implying between the social skill impairment and guy living in his parent's basement comes from. My social skills are fin even though I live with my parents I have lots of friends online. I meet my friends in person on the weekends or at night on weekdays.

      plus, many of my friends still live with their parents.

    7. Re:Not News by Alex+Belits · · Score: 2

      If his mother is a corpse, he can not possibly live in her basement, it's his basement.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    8. Re:Not News by Larryish · · Score: 1

      The big difference is that now, the guys can find the 50 year old truck drivers pretending to be girls on-line and they can talk, get to know each other on-line, bond over how different they feel, and then shit their pants when they realize that they reserved a seedy motel room for a fling with Cletus Brown the gay truck driver.

      FTFY.

    9. Re:Not News by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      The big difference is that now, the guys can find the 50 year old truck drivers pretending to be girls on-line and they can talk, get to know each other on-line, bond over how different they feel, and then shit their pants when they realize that they reserved a seedy motel room for a fling with Cletus Brown the gay truck driver.

      FTFY.

      You too, huh?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    10. Re:Not News by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      The only new thing here is that it happens to girls, as well as guys.

      No it doesn't, they did a survey to see how many girls FELT they had impaired social skills. If anything it says young girls have low self esteem.

      If it wasn't for girls with low self esteem a lot of geeks would never get laid at all. So don't knock it.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    11. Re:Not News by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      This is the sort of pedantry up with which I will not put.

  3. Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In other news: fire was found to be hot.

  4. if all the teens are doing it by Spy+Handler · · Score: 1

    which seems to be the case, then by spending all your time on facebook and twitter you will fit right in socially.

    1. Re:if all the teens are doing it by AdrianKemp · · Score: 1

      This was what I was thinking: what's "normal" in this context? The same as your parents? -- in that case every generation ever has developed abnormally

  5. Someone got to say it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Correlation does not imply causation.

    1. Re:Someone got to say it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doesn't mean it's correct, though.

    2. Re:Someone got to say it by maXXwell · · Score: 1

      Correlation does not imply causation.

      Yup. I was going to say it if you hadn't.

    3. Re:Someone got to say it by ppanon · · Score: 1

      In a vacuum of other information, that's true. However if you can figure out a plausible mechanism by which you would have causation, then correlation turns causation into a pretty likely case.

      Now the brain is a learning apparatus, and its neuroplasticity means that, not only do we learn things through practice, but a "use it or lose it" effect means that we also lose the abilities that we don't practice.

      Now there's two effects of constant texting-based communication

      1. You reinforce the speech and thinking patterns of short soundbites, often about trivial matters
      2. Because people have only so much to talk about, by contantly updating people on what is happening to you when you are actually face-to-face there isn't much left that hasn't already been said, so you won't feel a need to do so as much.

      The consequences should be pretty obvious: a lack or practice, and therefore skill, in expressing longer coherent streams of thought, and a lack of practice in processing the full sensory stream of facial expressions, body language, and tonal emphasis from face-to-face meetings. The other group that has problems with the latter due to excessive sensory sensitivity show significant problems interacting in social contexts. They are those with autism spectrum disorders.

      --
      Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
    4. Re:Someone got to say it by treeves · · Score: 1

      So would you have been saying it BECAUSE he hadn't said it, or would have just been a coincidence?

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
  6. Not a controlled study by timeOday · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You would expect introverts to spend more time on gadgets, so the direction of causation here, if any, is not determined. I hate to use a cliche, but "correlation != causation" never seemed more apt.

    1. Re:Not a controlled study by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      obligatory xkcd http://xkcd.com/552/

    2. Re:Not a controlled study by somersault · · Score: 1

      Yes, we expect introverts to spend more time on gadgets, but perhaps that is because those who are attracted to gadgets end up introverted.

      I hadn't considered it that way before, but it does seem to be an area worthy of further study.

      Sometimes things that we consider obvious, or that "everybody knows", actually aren't true at all.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    3. Re:Not a controlled study by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to burst your little bubble... but not even the summary suggested that there was causation. Nor did, even the summary, say there was a controlled study. It would seem they went out of their way to point out that it was a poll. You'd expect selection bias. And so would the the study's team.

      So... uh.. there are plenty of times where your cliche would be more apt. Like .. in instances of claims of causation, rather than correlation.

    4. Re:Not a controlled study by LordLucless · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not to mention it's apparently a self-selected, self-reported "study" aimed at girls who read a technology magazine.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    5. Re:Not a controlled study by renegade600 · · Score: 1

      or it could be gadgets are turning more people into introverts.

    6. Re:Not a controlled study by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not really. The people in question still have a social drive, they just express it more through text and do not express it verbally as well as their parents. Real introverts can keep to themselves online or offline and have no problem with it.

  7. that's the truth by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The only new thing here is that it happens to girls

    I've recently had the "privilege" of venturing back into the dating market after more than a year of being single. Imagine my surprise when I learned that it's virtually impossible to date these days without an unlimited texting package. Nobody knows (or at least nobody I've dated) how to talk anymore. It's as if asking for conversation in more than 160 character bites is too much. The distressing thing is that this trait seems to be independent of education and background. I've dated women with backgrounds ranging from GED to Ph.D candidate and have encountered this with all of them.

    Perhaps I'm old fashioned but I'm a techno geek who still appreciates the value of a good handshake and eye contact. The lack of these skills doesn't just screw you with dating; it screws you in the business world as well.

    --
    I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
    We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    1. Re:that's the truth by Cruciform · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I created a profile on PoF and set the limit to 300 characters minimum to contact me.
      I got a few nice messages, but then there were ones with a bunch of gibberish complaining about how they had to write so much just to make contact. It's 4 lines of text... jeez.
      The period now seems to have been replaced with "lol" in most communication too. At least it weeds out the ones worth talking to.

    2. Re:that's the truth by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 3, Informative

      Look at all the social network users without resistance to ostracism! Who's going to run civilization now? Zoidberg! That's who!

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    3. Re:that's the truth by laughingcoyote · · Score: 2

      I guess I didn't have that experience. My wife does like to text, but likes to talk face to face, as well. We do like to ping back and forth with one another while we're both working, when something particularly interesting/insane happens at one of our jobs. But we've also always liked to sit down and talk with one another, and still do.

      That doesn't seem to me to be an isolated experience, either. I go up to brunch every Sunday with a group of developers I've worked with in the past and some I still do at present, because we enjoy the face-to-face conversation, especially since some of them no longer work with us and it's the only chance we get to see them.

      That being said, I think the use of technology to communicate is part of what's included in that slippery term "normal" now. If a coworker needs me to look over a block of code that's acting up, the easiest thing is to IM or email it, even if they're sitting just across the office. And often, sending back my responses will be most easily done the same way. It's just another tool available to us, and like any tool, it's not the best one for every job, but it should be used when it is. Teaching kids how to determine that should be part of any parent's priorities, and should be part of a school curriculum as well. There are times when there's no substitute for a face-to-face meetup.

      --
      To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
    4. Re:that's the truth by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 2, Informative

      Plenty of Fish, like most other dating sites is a scam. The profiles are fake and compiled by the company's employees. The details may change from profile to profile, but the writing styles do not. Once in a while you will get a message from a chick you want to know more about, but the messages say something brief and do not answer any questions or provide a response.

      I know this unfortunate truth because each of the 3 women I was seeing(in real life) gave me an ultimatum to get serious with them or they would stop putting out. One was neurotic and was in a hurry to get knocked up, the other was retardedly dumb and incapable of two-way conversation, and the other had a boyfriend while we were boning -- yeah.

      I've never relied on online dating, but I tried to give it a shot. I went to OKCupid first, but got banned permanently on my first day because I became drunk and asked a masculine-looking woman if she had a penis between her legs. Then I tried Plenty of Fish, and determined that the site was more fake than Pamela Lee's tits. E-harmony is now charging just to see others' profile pics. No thanks.

      Work dating wasn't much better - I went on dates with 2 people. The first lived in a 2-bedroom apartment with her 11 siblings and said that any man she gets with would have to have a relationship with the lord. She whines and complains how she has bad luck with men, but never goes more than a week without a new boyfriend. The other just used me for attention, and even though I got a few good meals out of it, shaking hands with her son was awkward because he was only a few years younger than I was. But more to the point of the article - Today's youth are in a sad state. I'm back in junior college and in a class with a lot of young adults, and they are so overstimulated but utterly incapable of carrying on conversation about other than what is immediately happening around them. One young woman said with a straight face that she wanted to find a rich man and be a trophy wife. Others had dumb lottery-ticket fantasies about becoming rich and powerful. They have spent their entire lives watching MTV and think that is what life is actually like. They rock in place, geek, twitch, whine, tic, grunt in such an annoying fashion that I want to smack them in their mouths with a rolled-up newspaper.

    5. Re:that's the truth by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'm skeptical of online dating as well but I'm at a loss for what's better these days. I'm not into the bar/clubbing scene, so cross that off the list. I've always maintained boundaries at work and refuse to date co-workers. What does that leave? I've tried activity groups (hiking clubs and the like) but most of the people who attend those are already paired off. Church may be an option for some people but the median age at my church is around 60 so that's not going to work either.

      I've actually met a few friends through OKCupid. Nothing that panned out as relationship material but if you troll through that site long enough you'll actually find decent human beings mixed in with the fake profiles/spammers and the extremely desperate. I think I've met seven or eight people through OKC and only one of them turned out to be psycho. That's probably comparable odds to meeting people in person -- anybody can pretend to be sane for the initial conversation! Sucks that you got banned from there. I wouldn't regard E-Harmony as any real loss; it's overpriced and hasn't quite escaped it's Christian roots. Unless you are a fairly religious person looking for your future spouse E-Harmony isn't likely to prove fruitful.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    6. Re:that's the truth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I've dated women with backgrounds ranging from GED to Ph.D candidate and have encountered this with all of them."

      That's fairly scary, my friend.

      How in the world can one establish any sort of meaningful emotional bond with a person whose interaction with the outside world is based on 140 character blocks of ASCII?

    7. Re:that's the truth by cduffy · · Score: 1

      I recently got back into the dating pool myself (Austin, early 30s), and can't say that my experiences are similar.

      The women who initiated contact without solicitation have often done just as you described (and not really been a sort I was very interested in) -- but those who have gone to the effort to respond to my (longer, well-written) messages have universally responded in kind.

      Then again, I don't know what target age and audience you're dealing with; if it's the early-20s crowd, I'd be very unsurprised.

    8. Re:that's the truth by CriminalNerd · · Score: 2

      I'm all for playful biting but after 160 bites, I don't think I could handle another mouthful of conversation as you put it no matter the person.

    9. Re:that's the truth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I so agree, and whats worst, they can not have a conversation, not an argument. Heck even in the time of the conversation or asking questions they grab their phone and text and share their crap as a way to impress. I detest this. But these new metro sexual MEN are no better, watch out they might brake a nail too. All is show, no essence, and women are no women, and men are more like women. sad. I think I will go Amish....

    10. Re:that's the truth by garaged · · Score: 1

      No wonder Christian churches try to keep people off from non Christians, you have serious issues

      Im not into the whole "dont mix with the world idea" but I deffinitively prefer being isolated withmy family than socializing with people like you

      --
      I'm positive, don't belive me look at my karma
    11. Re:that's the truth by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 1
      You said:

      No wonder Christian churches try to keep people off from non Christians, you have serious issues

      As an ardent atheist, I declare that you are false. One of the main missions of religious sects is recruitment of outsiders. All are accepted as long as the outsider is willing to convert to the sect, conform to its principles, and atone for their sins. I know because I am friends with people who have tried to convert me. Fortunately, they accept who I am and our conversations about bible verses and Dante's Inferno never turn violent.

      Oddly enough, I had considered the idea of pretending to be a pious man and go to church just to find a mate. I have found, however, that religious women are closed-minded, guilt-ridden, and uptight. I would not only have to whore out my principles, but I would have to settle with a boring, unfulfilling marriage and live a life of lies.

      No thanks.

    12. Re:that's the truth by blue_teeth · · Score: 1

      These days, casual conversations are contests.  Didn't you get the memo?

    13. Re:that's the truth by RobbieThe1st · · Score: 2, Funny

      Um... ASCII question, get an ANSI? >_>

    14. Re:that's the truth by sydneyfong · · Score: 4, Funny

      What does that leave?

      Try Slashdot?

      Speaking of that, there's no reason I shouldn't try my luck here too. Hey girls! I'm single, male, 26, and have excellent karma. PM if interested.

      --
      Don't quote me on this.
    15. Re:that's the truth by qwak23 · · Score: 1

      The first three and a half paragraphs sounds like the basis for a decent romantic comedy.

      The last half a paragraph just sounds like a bunch of "Get off my lawn" whining.

      Sadly, though I am calling you out for it, I'm in a similar situation and tend to feel the same way (in regards to young people, not the bit about dating... I've already given myself over to slaver... I mean marriage).

    16. Re:that's the truth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you want to meet interesting people, hang out in interesting places. My girlfriend of six years and fiancée met me through the Rocky Horror Picture Show---we'd both been on the local cast at various points (and she had played at conventions).

      "but got banned permanently on my first day because I became drunk and asked a masculine-looking woman if she had a penis between her legs. " I was a little disappointed to read this (I'm transgendered), because your comments are among the better ones that get posted here, but, hey, I can turn into a completely person after four drinks or so---someone who is a complete ass and will hit people. I'm assuming you wouldn't make that kind of comment sober, so, it's all good =) Keep up the good posts!

    17. Re:that's the truth by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      You should probably try dating someone other than a teenage girl. ;-)

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    18. Re:that's the truth by rock_climbing_guy · · Score: 2
      Too bad that you think that.

      I met my wife on Plenty of Fish. My brother met his wife on Craigslist, of all places.

      You just have to be smart about it. If you think there are a lot of fake profiles on Plenty of Fish, they've got nothing on the fake profiles on Craigslist.

      --
      Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
    19. Re:that's the truth by Larryish · · Score: 1

      You might want to include your BMI and bathing frequency.

      This is Slashdot, after all.

    20. Re:that's the truth by garaged · · Score: 1

      Well, you have not meet many churches then, still my point stands, be as intelligent atheist open minded as you like, but please be it away from people that tries to be honest about their intentions.

      --
      I'm positive, don't belive me look at my karma
    21. Re:that's the truth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      14 and haven't showered sincefriday

    22. Re:that's the truth by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I'm a techno geek who still appreciates the value of a good handshake and eye contact.

      I'm not sure that's how dating is supposed to work, but hey I'm not Ameican.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    23. Re:that's the truth by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I went to OKCupid first, but got banned permanently on my first day because I became drunk and asked a masculine-looking woman if she had a penis between her legs.

      You silver-tongued devil, you must have the chicks queuing up to let you bang them.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    24. Re:that's the truth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try dancing lessons. Women galore, sports, and if you choose something brainy like Argentine Tango, you don't waste time talking to air-heads (much).

    25. Re:that's the truth by SacredNaCl · · Score: 1

      Eharmony is pretty much a waste of time, even for the devout Christian looking for a partner.

      I met my beloved through an ad I placed on Craigslist. Of course, she will never admit to using Craigslist for how we met. ha People DO actually use the site for something other than hookups; its just not known as well for that side of it.

      PoF was a complete waste of my time. I talked to a couple people, but I never wanted to meet any of them. With Craigslist I got so many responses, so quickly that it became a process of weeding out the psychos, and other problems from the ones I wanted to meet. Despite having in bold letters that I did not want to hear from anyone that was married, or going through a divorce; I still got 4 responses from married women looking to hookup, and 3 more from those whom claimed to be "separated" or some other version of the same.

      The ironic bit is that I almost didn't meet my beloved at all. Her email to me got sent to the spam folder. Roughly 99% of what I get from Yahoo is spam, so the filter flagged it. If I hadn't taken a second to look, I wouldn't have responded to her at all, and would have missed on the pass four years of a truly fantastic woman. Her email sat in my spam folder for over a week, and she thought I wasn't truly interested by the time I contacted her.

      YMMV, but Craigslist has proven itself a lot more effective than the big dating sites for me.

      Maybe I just got incredibly lucky, but I tend to think it was more divine design.

      --
      Freedom is merely privilege extended unless enjoyed by one and all.
    26. Re:that's the truth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You said:

      No wonder Christian churches try to keep people off from non Christians, you have serious issues

      As an ardent atheist, I declare that you are false. One of the main missions of religious sects is recruitment of outsiders. All are accepted as long as the outsider is willing to convert to the sect, conform to its principles, and atone for their sins. I know because I am friends with people who have tried to convert me. Fortunately, they accept who I am and our conversations about bible verses and Dante's Inferno never turn violent.

      Oddly enough, I had considered the idea of pretending to be a pious man and go to church just to find a mate. I have found, however, that religious women are closed-minded, guilt-ridden, and uptight. I would not only have to whore out my principles, but I would have to settle with a boring, unfulfilling marriage and live a life of lies. .

      You are far better off to look elsewhere. Most Christian women will not want a husband that is unequally yoked, and the truth will always come out eventually. Christian woman (and most of the men) have different standards for what they expect from their husband/wife.

      Coming from the perspective of a person who converted later in life -- I initially found quite a few of those standards both bewildering, extremely taxing, and quite a bit contradictory at times. The standard is high enough that it is simply not possible for anyone to meet it purely under their own efforts by understanding the ethics involved. Its only when one realizes that this is by design, and it is only by leading with the spirit that a marriage with those expectations can work at all that it begins to work. Its not something one can fake their way through for very long, or all of the pieces will end up broken.

    27. Re:that's the truth by SacredNaCl · · Score: 1

      I try to set aside an hour a day just for conversation with my wife. Sometimes it has to be on the phone, but usually we can work it in for face to face time. Its a very good thing for us. The conversation lets her decompress, gives me a chance to reconnect with her, share a bit of my day (even if I do a lot more listening than talking), and because that time is almost always there she doesn't feel the need to interrupt every few seconds when I'm trying to say watch a hockey game, or get some bit of work done. She knows she is a priority, because its usually the second thing we do when we get home; the first thing is collie attack, and the dogs have less patience than even children (I rarely make it through the front hallway without at least one of them biting on my hand to demand attention). It makes for a much happier home if you can keep that face-to-face talk time going, and its usually scheduled around the same time of day!

      --
      Freedom is merely privilege extended unless enjoyed by one and all.
    28. Re:that's the truth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oddly enough, I had considered the idea of pretending to be a pious man and go to church just to find a mate. I have found, however, that religious women are closed-minded, guilt-ridden, and uptight. I would not only have to whore out my principles, but I would have to settle with a boring, unfulfilling marriage and live a life of lies.

      Try dating Irish Roman Catholic girls, they are absolutely sex mad filth once you get them into bed, which is fairly easy as they generally like a drink.
      So I've heard.

    29. Re:that's the truth by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I'm assuming you wouldn't make that kind of comment sober, so, it's all good =) Keep up the good posts!

      That's the Mel Gibson or John Galliano defence, and it's rubbish.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    30. Re:that's the truth by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      There are times when there's no substitute for a face-to-face meetup.

      Most notably, if you want to have sex with someone. Sometimes there's no substitute for a bit of meat-in-meat action.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    31. Re:that's the truth by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      I'm skeptical of online dating as well but I'm at a loss for what's better these days. I'm not into the bar/clubbing scene, so cross that off the list. I've always maintained boundaries at work and refuse to date co-workers. What does that leave? I've tried activity groups (hiking clubs and the like) but most of the people who attend those are already paired off. Church may be an option for some people but the median age at my church is around 60 so that's not going to work either.

      So no bars/clubs and work. That still leaves hobbies - don't you have any? There's plenty of social activities for every hobby.

      Like to write FOSS code? Attend some conferences - there's only like a 100 of them a year and you'll meet lots of people. Don't dismiss them though - just like finding a job, networking can find you a suitable partner interested in the same stuff as well.

      Into other things like reading books? Try book clubs.

      Every hobby has some social element to it - even if you prefer to be stuck in front of a computer all day, there are get-togethers for those people.

      And really, if you can't imagine going to such events, volunteer your skills - perhaps you'll bump into someone there.

      And don't ignore the paired off folks - networking is king and they may very well know other people.

    32. Re:that's the truth by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but then you have to dance. And you're stuck with a girl who likes dancing, which means you'll probably have to do it more often. I understand that some people like it, but for the life of me I don't understand why.

    33. Re:that's the truth by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      our conversations about bible verses and Dante's Inferno never turn violent.

      Wow, some people really are into their video games. I couldn't imagine violence after a discussion about video games.

      (Just kidding! I do know the true origins.. though I have but haven't yet played the game.)

    34. Re:that's the truth by rdnetto · · Score: 1

      Does anyone else thing that Geeknet should launch an online dating site for geeks?

      --
      Most human behaviour can be explained in terms of identity.
  8. Please define "social problems" by tlambert · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Please define "social problems"

    Please do it in terms of something other than "the old farts say it was always done this way, so it should always be done this way".

    Welcome to your children's world.

    -- Terry

    1. Re:Please define "social problems" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This was my first thought upon reading the post.

      Social norms are often an artificial construction, the expectations of them are a burden in themselves, and often quite illusory.

      It's like Machismo, Honor, or a dozen other terms. Are they good, or are they just what's expected?

    2. Re:Please define "social problems" by tlambert · · Score: 1

      I wish you were tagged and still anonymous.

      Normative construction is a fault

      Contact me me via third channel.

      -T

    3. Re:Please define "social problems" by stms · · Score: 2

      While this study is both shit and a water is wet study there is a pretty valid definition of "socail problems". If you don't understand how what you say (and how you say it) effects other people emotionally that would probably be considered "social problems". Its probably one of the most important skills to have. Even in the face of new technologies it doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

    4. Re:Please define "social problems" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Social problems...

      - Problems to relate to other people. Often having a hard time to listen to other people and their ideas or problems.
      - Problems to handle discussions if the ideas of the person are in question. If the person never have gotten your ideas challenged he/her will have a problem when they are.
      - Problems to have a meaningful relationship. If the person have always been taken care of by your parents and never have had to adjust to other peoples needs he/her will have a hard time adjusting.
      - Empathy issues.

      Just to name a few... Some people get them all, and live in their parents basement for the rest of their life.

    5. Re:Please define "social problems" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is precisely the issue here that the article fails to address. I grew up in the 1980s on BBSs, on IRC in the 1990s and 2000s have been SMS, facebook, twitter, IRC and a mix of whatever else is online and in various electronic communication methods

      Socially, for the work I do and the people I socialise with, my wide range of a hundred or more friends, close friends, and important acquaintances, socialising through the 'net is THE important way to socialise. It's what's gained me jobs, found me my partner, given me important long-term contacts that are independent of spacial position.

      Other people in my small town who didn't have network-based socialising skills? They're on meth, alcoholic, obese and on welfare. I'm nearly fifty and enjoying life

      Who has the social problems again?

    6. Re:Please define "social problems" by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      Just to name a few... Some people get them all, and live in their parents basement for the rest of their life.

      You just summed up 90% of the teenage girls I've known since the 1980s. So what's new?

    7. Re:Please define "social problems" by anubi · · Score: 1

      I have every one of these issues.

      I seem best socially in areas I have no knowledge of. If someone is showing me caverns or a forest tour, I make a great team player and go wherever I am led.

      But, you get me in an area I know well, and I will fight like the dickens when I think things are not right. If I am on a tour bus, and I know the bridge is out ahead, and know we don't have enough gas to get back, I will holler my concerns until they throw me off the bus.

      Even though I know in the corporate world, its not about being right, its about being liked, I still insist - to the point of layoff - that things be done what I think is the right way. Maybe its early Bible training in me - about Joseph becoming second under Pharoah in Egypt because he was honest. Maybe its just hardwired in me. I can't change it no more than a musician can delete his need to make music.

      Here I am in McDonalds using their internet, reading Slashdot, and downloading the specs on a WIZNET 5300 chip after discovering it at Saelig.. There is porn all over the net, but it holds no interest to me.

      Even though I have no market for this, I want to design a big battery pack using the LLTC6802 battery monitor so I can have enough processing power to do charge balancing functions, make decent charts of each cell and make reasonable predictions of battery health, cell by cell, and make the results available via web server.

      The little 8-bit microcontroller won't draw so much juice as to make the whole thing impractical, yet has enough processing capability as to do everything I need as for cell balancing, statistics gathering, and report generation. That little WIZNET chip looks great, I am looking forward to seeing what I can do with it. I have Wireshark, and can see exactly what it is doing on the 'net.

      I feel free about talking about such things before a Slashdot audience, as I know a lot of you know exactly what I intend to do.

      For me to take my interests and go before some corporate personnel resources type and try to sell it, I already feel judged as too useless for the modern executive-driven enterprise. I already sense they are not looking for someone like me, rather they want some young guy that looks great in suit and tie, and knows a lot of people. The type of people who will lay me off for being obstinate. Why would they value me as much as a $250K/yr guy who hires management types @150K/yr which fill out evaluation forms on how I take instructions - even if everything in me tells me they are barking up the wrong tree?

      I do not even look for a job anymore.

      I figured I could just learn to live very cheaply and do as much as I can without involving anyone else. Its been my experience once anyone sees me doing anything, they will run to their lawyers to have cease-and-desist letters sent, and I am not strong enough to defend myself.

      I do not feel I can work for a big corporation, as I cannot deal with the office politics, nor can I start my own small business, as our Government coins law at the request of the bigger fish that keeps us small fry from spawning and competing in the market.

      Legal torts kill just as surely as a bullet. I can die from either blood or economic hemorrhage. Tort guns are legal, but the bullets are way too expensive for me.

      I have better sense than to make moonshine, grow pot, or start a business that might upset somebody else who knows how to play off of Congress. All of these activities attract lawsuits.

      I have posted enough hopefully to indicate we are not all of the same mold. I feel quite cheated, as I spent so much time in schools, actually DOING the work single-handedly, successfully competing against fraternities who had databases of old tests. When I get in the workplace, I can't hold a job because I try my damndest to be honest and hold my ground. T

      --
      "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]

    8. Re:Please define "social problems" by swillden · · Score: 1

      Please define "social problems"

      Please do it in terms of something other than "the old farts say it was always done this way, so it should always be done this way".

      Welcome to your children's world.

      Maybe.

      Okay, I'll say right up front that this is purely anecdotal, so take it with plenty of salt, but I've noticed what appears to me to be a disturbing trend among teenage girls, and I wonder if gadgets aren't at least a contributing factor.

      Now, teenagers are selfish. That's nothing new. Learning that there are people outside of yourself, and that those people matter, is something that has always arrived in the late teens, or early 20s (and for some people it doesn't seem to really sink in until decades later than that). But I've seen multiple instances lately, with my daughter, a neighbor's daughter, my sister's daughter, and a some of my daughter's friends of a sort of extreme need for instant gratification, and extreme negative responses to lack of fulfillment.

      The details don't matter, but in all of these cases, the girls were asked to do pretty reasonable things. Do the occasional chore around the house, keep their parents apprised of their location, etc. And their responses were total and utter defiance, including telling their parents that they don't have to follow any rules, that they can do whatever they want, etc. In four cases, the defiance escalated to violent aggression against their parents. In all of the cases, the girls ran away and several ended up in trouble with the law.

      Now, I knew plenty of "bad" girls (from a distance, I was a pretty shy, geeky kid), who often fought with their parents and were pretty defiant. But what I've seen lately seems like it's on a completely different scale. My sister had a pretty checkered teenage history herself, dropping out of school, etc., and she hung out with a lot of problem kids both while still at home and when at Job Corps... but she agrees that she also didn't see anything like the sort of extreme anti-social behavior that seems to cropping up all over.

      I'm hesitant to attribute too much to this, because every generation of parents believes their kids' generation is the worst ever... but this does seem to be different. I wonder if it's not related to the ingrained expectation of instant gratification provided by gadgets.

      I don't know... all anecdotes and speculation. But it wouldn't surprise me at *all* to hear a few years from now of studies showing significant increases in certain types of anti-social behavior -- and I mean really negative stuff, not just not knowing how to talk to people -- associated with gadget usage.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    9. Re:Please define "social problems" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so true, you nailed it

    10. Re:Please define "social problems" by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      That's not a "problem", that's "pathology", lack of empathy. It's not a "skill" -- the only "skill" involved is ability to operate within society's accepted conventions for interpersonal and professional interactions, and those vary wildly between societies, their segments and subcultures. Not to mention, plenty of society segments and subcultures have "accepted conventions" that are based on suppression of empathy (and for this, and many other reasons, it would be a good thing if they will be abandoned).

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    11. Re:Please define "social problems" by Froobly · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The corporate world is not all about compromising as you've been led to believe. At least in the tech industry, successful companies value people who know what's right, and take action on that knowledge. What they don't value is people who are mean about it, or who have a victim complex. They don't want yes men, although they sometimes have difficulty ferreting them out. They want someone who can identify problems, speak up, and solve the problems.

      But there are other issues that come up, that can fool you into believing that they don't want informed, stubborn people. It sounds like you don't have much respect for managers, and that could be your downfall. If you don't like somebody, and you let them know, how can you expect them to like you? People who are perceived as mean or unfriendly are often singled out and discriminated against, even when they're in the right.

      Here's the truth that you probably won't like hearing: management is fucking hard, and it's not much fun. I try to avoid it if at all possible, preferring to come up with clever software designs and banging out code -- you know, the fun stuff.

      Those people who you complain about making tons of money for knowing how to shake hands and smile? Their job is a lot harder than you think. They have to keep track of every aspect of a project, figure out ways of communicating what needs to be done, deliver information to their superiors in a way that won't freak them out, and try to extract good performance out of engineers who see them as just another smile and a handshake.

      Good managers are hard to come by. With no management, stress and uncertainty accumulate, and projects go to bad places. With bad management, they tend to go to even worse places. With good management, things get done, and people feel satisfied in their jobs.

      You may feel like people want you to be someone who you're not. I honestly don't know who you are, but I'm guessing you're angry and bitter. That does not define who you are -- that's just what you're thinking right now. You can choose to do what you want, and it's what you do that defines who you are, not what's happened to you, or what you've done in the past. I think you might find that if you try to be nice to people, treat them with respect, and genuinely convince yourself that they're not all fucktards, things might turn out a little better for you.

    12. Re:Please define "social problems" by anubi · · Score: 2

      Thanks for taking the time to post, Froobly.

      Yes, I am bitter.

      I guess I am a lot like a kicked cat who no longer trusts humans.

      What you say is true, All of it.

      Again, thanks. You spent a lot of time preparing your reply to me. I appreciate your help.

      --
      "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]

    13. Re:Please define "social problems" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does this post make sense to anyone else? It sounds like spies communicating with each other or something.

      "...when the owl hoots at midnight"

    14. Re:Please define "social problems" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know many kids (in my church) in the facebook/twitter generation who are not like that, so I don't think you can blame facebook/twitter/gadgets for that. They help out, do chores etc (heck many even seem to be more concerned about doing homework than I ever was ;) ).

      Those "bad kids" you're seeing are usually[1] the fault of their parents/guardians. Domesticating humans is difficult but has to be done, and it has to be done way before they are teenagers. Because by that time they could be stronger and faster than you. So if you love them you'd discipline/domesticate them early otherwise eventually the cops and the State may have to do it... And I doubt they'd care that much about your kid.

      Atheists may say that brainwashing children with religion (and your chosen cultural norms) is abusing them, but unless someone can provide a better "human domestication program"[2], I don't think you can leave it to Youtube, TV or "Rupert Murdoch".

      [1] Apparently once in a while you get some psychopathic kids, where no matter what you do, they're just "evil". You could educate the more intelligent ones so that they figure out that to achieve some of their own goals they need to behave in socially acceptable ways (or at least not get caught ;) ). But then do you really want to be responsible for more evil CEOs and leaders in the world? ;)

      [2] In many countries you need to take lessons and pass tests before you are allowed to drive a car on public roads, but you don't have to take lessons and pass tests to have children. I don't think we should make that a requirement, but perhaps someone should come up with an optional good training programme for bringing up children and offer that to parents. Most parents actually want the best for their kids, and would actually be happy to learn how to bring up kids better.

    15. Re:Please define "social problems" by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 1

      All these girls nowadays aren't developing normal social tendencies! I mean, they're out in the street wearing pants! Not a single one in a dress. How obscene!

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    16. Re:Please define "social problems" by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 1

      Getting in trouble with the law? This seems like an outlier case to me. I would be extremely hesitant to chalk this up to modern technology. Sure, some slight differences in behavior, a general negative trend wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility; but something this serious likely has other, much larger, factors involved.

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    17. Re:Please define "social problems" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You aren't really communicating. In the old days, it was speaking electrically, now it's writing electrically. In both cases, you are not communicating, but merely exchanging data with another person.

      There is a whole dimension to communicating which is not conveyed by electrical means. You are missing out on that, and because of it, you slowly lose the awareness of this dimension, thereby losing the ability to empathize.

      skr.

    18. Re:Please define "social problems" by hitmark · · Score: 2

      Some of the worst criminals come in a suit, because they have learned how to play the empathic strings of the human mind to their benefit.

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    19. Re:Please define "social problems" by hitmark · · Score: 1

      Could be a number of things, side effects from emancipation, a media that keeps harping the antihero middle-fingering the law as the ultimate person to be, the rush of continual instant gratification, and maybe something completely different. Or none at all...

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    20. Re:Please define "social problems" by Johann+Lau · · Score: 1

      Ken sent me.

    21. Re:Please define "social problems" by swillden · · Score: 1

      I know many kids (in my church) in the facebook/twitter generation who are not like that, so I don't think you can blame facebook/twitter/gadgets for that. They help out, do chores etc (heck many even seem to be more concerned about doing homework than I ever was ;) ).

      I know lots of good kids, too. I'm not saying these things cause problems for all of them, just that they may make some things worse for kids that might have on the edge anyway.

      Those "bad kids" you're seeing are usually[1] the fault of their parents/guardians.

      I disagree. Not that parents don't have an important job, but all of the cases I mentioned are girls who have good parents, who taught them responsibility, etc. from a young age. My daughter has always been required to be responsible and respectful, and besides our influence has always had lots of other good role models around through church. All of the other girls I mention except one have siblings who are responsible and respectful, and the one is an only child so it's impossible to know what her siblings might be like.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    22. Re:Please define "social problems" by swillden · · Score: 1

      Getting in trouble with the law? This seems like an outlier case to me. I would be extremely hesitant to chalk this up to modern technology. Sure, some slight differences in behavior, a general negative trend wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility; but something this serious likely has other, much larger, factors involved.

      There's no doubt in my daughter's case that there are other factors. She has a pretty severe emotional disorder. But it's not the case with all of the girls I mention. The trouble with the law isn't even the key difference that I see, either. I knew of kids when I was young who got in trouble... that's nothing new. What is different is that what seem to be generally good kids, raised in good homes, taught by good parents go to unexpected extremes when denied gratification.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    23. Re:Please define "social problems" by swillden · · Score: 1

      Could be a number of things, side effects from emancipation, a media that keeps harping the antihero middle-fingering the law as the ultimate person to be, the rush of continual instant gratification, and maybe something completely different. Or none at all...

      Agreed. The plural of anecdote is not data. I recognize that. Perhaps it's nothing and I'm just coincidentally seeing a bunch of troubled cases, and I'm more sensitized to it because of my own daughter's troubles. I especially have to discount the troubles of my daughter's friends, because given her situation she tends to gravitate to others with problems -- and she's even been moved to a school that is especially for kids with special needs. Not all are troubled (one kid is an olympic athlete who needs a different approach to education to work around his intense training regimen) but many are.

      Anyway, perhaps it's nothing. But I won't be surprised to find that it's not nothing.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    24. Re:Please define "social problems" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You won't understand until it's too late.

    25. Re:Please define "social problems" by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      tl;dr

      soz

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    26. Re:Please define "social problems" by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      This is precisely the issue here that the article fails to address. I grew up in the 1980s on BBSs, on IRC in the 1990s and 2000s have been SMS, facebook, twitter, IRC and a mix of whatever else is online and in various electronic communication methods

      Socially, for the work I do and the people I socialise with, my wide range of a hundred or more friends, close friends, and important acquaintances, socialising through the 'net is THE important way to socialise. It's what's gained me jobs, found me my partner, given me important long-term contacts that are independent of spacial position.

      Other people in my small town who didn't have network-based socialising skills? They're on meth, alcoholic, obese and on welfare. I'm nearly fifty and enjoying life

      Who has the social problems again?

      I just get jobs based on the fact that I can do them well, and have zero interest in "network-based socialising". People I want to talk to, I talk to face to face, it's really not that difficult unless you're the CEO of some multi-national corporation.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    27. Re:Please define "social problems" by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      (heck many even seem to be more concerned about doing homework than I ever was ;) ).

      Kids are just getting better at gaming the system. If they get a gold star every time they hand in a piece of barely acceptable homework on time, they can easily build up a lot of credit to offset against their subsequent stealing, bullying or whatever when they get caught.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    28. Re:Please define "social problems" by hitmark · · Score: 1

      I recall reading something about that recently, that like seemed to cluster with like.

      I think it was hiding out in a anthropological book on debt, of all things:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
  9. "least likely to develop normal social tendencies" by egburr · · Score: 5, Funny

    least likely to develop normal social tendencies

    Well, from what I remember of "normal social tendencies" in high school, maybe it's better that fewer people develop them.

    --

    Edward Burr
    Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.
  10. Paradigm shift by tm2b · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Or, they could consider the idea that as on-line communication becomes rooted in our social ecosphere, social skills are changing to more closely integrate on-line interactions.

    15 years ago, online dating was satire. 5-10 years ago it was socially frowned upon. These days, it's damned near normative.

    --
    "It is our blasphemy which has made us great, and will sustain us, and which the gods secretly admire in us." - Zelazny
    1. Re:Paradigm shift by hitmark · · Score: 1

      So can we look forward to people communicating by way of curse storms as seems to be the way things are done on in-game voice chats?

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    2. Re:Paradigm shift by qwak23 · · Score: 1

      Sir, I have been doing that for years.

      Though, I stubbornly refuse to adopt typical on-line speak into actual verbal conversation. I cringed the first time I heard someone say "LOL". It didn't seem real, it sounded ominous. Now I hear it fairly frequently, and I'm torn between whether or not I should be an angry pedant or justify it as the evolution of language.

         

  11. What is normal? by Budenny · · Score: 1

    Problem is, what is normal? Suppose for instance we thought that Amish social culture and relations between teenagers was normal. Then we might say that the excessive use of cars and shopping malls and fast food led to the development of abnormal attitudes to social relations among teenagers. Suppose we thought arranged marriages the norm. We might say then that excessive levels of consumption of mass market women's magazines led to abnormal attitudes to marriage, including resistance to proper levels of parental influence over future marriage partners. We really need to get away from this crazed desire to have everyone be something identical called normal. These girls and guys will, almost all of them, just find their way through life in the end, get married, have kids, have jobs. And the ones that will not, well, its doubtful their lives would be any happier deprived of tech. They'd either find something else, or they'd be miserable.

    1. Re:What is normal? by hitmark · · Score: 1

      I think the normal is the majority behavior, but that is not something set in stone as the generations come and go.

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
  12. Study finds surveys bad science.. by tbird81 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Seriously?

    n: 3461 - pretty good
    Inclusion criteria: Girls 8-12 who replied to a magazine survey - pretty bad
    Measurement: Self-reporting of multitasking, self-reporting on social ability - reliable?
    Interpretation: Can also be applied to boys - where the fuck did this come from??
    Author: Clifford Nass a "self-described technologist of 25 years".

    The author seems to be one of those self-promoting weirdos who picks a topic he knows will be controversial, does some easy "science" with it, and comes up with a controversial conclusion. He says he finds the results "disturbing".

    Well Clifford, I find the fact that Stanford employs someone like you quite disturbing. I find you job title "technologist" disturbing. And I find your name dropping of Google and Microsoft disturbing. Most of all, I find the complete lack of scientific method in this study incredibly sad - it's just made for pop-science articles. Shame on you.

    1. Re:Study finds surveys bad science.. by Rinnon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Don't forget the fact that the magazine in question is "Discovery Girls." Now, I don't want to submit myself completely to stereotypes, but what kind of person reads Discovery Girls? I'm guessing NERDY GIRLS. Just a shot in the dark. And nerds aren't exactly known for their stellar social skills. Not that any of this is a bad thing, I'd take a nerdy socially awkward girl any day of the week (not from the age range the survey took from mind you).

    2. Re:Study finds surveys bad science.. by retroworks · · Score: 1

      I had read the article and posted it on Facebook as a caution. Now I've read your insightful commentary, removed the post, and decided to let the kids play on the lawn again...

      --
      Gently reply
    3. Re:Study finds surveys bad science.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Could not have said it better myself. These kind of studies drive me crazy, always sounding some sort of alarm. "This is disturbing" is usually a key phrase that makes me double check how the study was done and by who. Its one thing to run a study and present the findings, its another thing to make baseless assumptions off of those, such as what you mentioned, "can also be applied to boys".

      I beg to ask why this made it to slashdot, but instead I digress.

    4. Re:Study finds surveys bad science.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I've been questioning the common wisdom of what constitutes poor social skills, and more so that women are more advanced.

      Take any group of people, and the majority will be extroverted. Now, they are highly adept within that group, but when dealing with the introverted, they falter, and falter badly. Worse in fact than an introverted person dealing with an extroverted person (an introverted person is aware that he is different and will make adjustments to his interaction. An extroverted person isn't even aware that there are more ways to be socially interactive than superficial chatter). This is a case of the majority defining what is normative rather than possession of any innate skill. A better measure of social skill is how well you interact with people different than you; how well you can accommodate the social customs different from your own. The common stereotype of the loud, ugly American? That is the highly social group unable to read the terrain.

      And especially with women- there is a certain back and forth that goes with social interaction, which a fair amount of women seem completely oblivious to (though less so than with nerdy girls). There is no genuine interest shown in the other person, or respect for silences so you can listen. Again, superficiality of interaction, which is most commonly how sociopaths interact.

      And for most of these networking tools, again it is mostly the "highly social" using them. That they preclude anything more than barest of contact isn't suggesting what you think it does.

    5. Re:Study finds surveys bad science.. by gwjgwj · · Score: 1

      Hmm... I did exactly the same

    6. Re:Study finds surveys bad science.. by qwak23 · · Score: 1

      Last January, after having gotten myself into a decent financial place (not to mention having a few extra years of maturity and self-discipline), I finally got started on my university level education, part-time, and in a manner that wont put me in serious debt. I'm a mathematics major, and I take 1 to 2 classes at a time, on-line. My particular school requires several electives that are related to the major (so for mathematics, basically, applied math courses). I choose Intro to Statistics and Into to Macroeconomics.

      Though I am knee-deep in calculus, neither of those classes required calculus. They were simple algebra based introductions to the subjects.

      I am now of the impression that those two classes should be made mandatory High School courses. Applying those two classes to daily life, primarily in regards to my consumption of "news" has shattered my fucking world. I don't want to say I was some idiot who just believed everything that got put out beforehand (I wasn't). But I now have a good concise framework to deal with crap like this. I suppose this entire post is a bit off-topic, but fuck I am sick of reading studies with such bad methodology get media attention. It almost ineveitably follows that I have to hear about it from someone else, and usually in the form of criticism (sometimes of myself, sometimes of someone else). "Hey, didn't you know that x causes y, scientists said so".

      My favorite was an article in Huffington Post awhile back (forgive me for not searching for it and linking to it, it was a long long time ago). The author of the article had quoted a study (or rather, quoted the results of a study as published in an article from another news outlet....) and used that as a means to justify a pro-vegetarian stance (note: I have nothing against HuffPo that I don't have against FoxNews, and I have nothing against vegetarians, I do hate bad science, and the misuse of both good and bad science). Her argument was that eating meat every day (I can't remember if an amount was specified). increases your chances of dying by 30-40% in the next 10 years or something silly like that. Finding that absurd, I decided to go to the original article she was quoting from, as well as the original study. The original study did not include anyone under 50. I believe participants ranged from 50-70. Data on their diet was gathered (if I'm remembering correctly) by phone, once a month or so. The study itself was not as bad as it sounds, but it wasn't that great either, but the real icing was seeing the abuse of it's conclusions.

      Hell, just drilling into people the basic concepts without the math would probably be a good start.

      ok, enough ranting for now. =/

  13. You're doing it wrong. by raehl · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That's because phone calls are fucking annoying.

    If you want to have a conversation with someone, take them out to dinner or some other activity where you are together.

    Otherwise, unless you're stuck across the country and can't see each other, stop expecting people to accept your interruptions to their day.

    1. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, maybe you don't have to have a continuous conversation during the whole day, as many seem to have...

    2. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm curious why you went to phone calls when I never mentioned them in my initial post?

      That said, some of us do appreciate the value of hearing an actual voice and knowing we have someone's (relatively) undivided attention. Phone calls don't need to "interrupt" your day nor do they need to endure for hours on end. I can communicate more to someone with a five minute phone call than I can with five hours of texting.

      Speaking of fucking annoying that's how I view text messages. They are fine for "Hey, I'm running a few minutes late" but utterly useless for real conversation. They are slower than IM, less meaningful than e-mail and entirely too prone to the misunderstandings that a danger in all forms of non-verbal/in-person communication. Vocal inflections and body language make up a significant portion of human interaction; you are missing a great deal when you remove them both from the equation.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    3. Re:You're doing it wrong. by martin-boundary · · Score: 1
      I'm pretty sure it's because the generation that first adopted texting did so because it was cheaper than phone calls. Now they're so used to it, they prefer it.

      Habit is a powerful thing. I grew up with email, and I never do texting. I didn't need to, when it became popular I was connected already with constant email access everywhere I went. And since I touch type on real keyboards, I'm very uncomfortable punching telephone/smartphone keys with my thumbs.

    4. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 1

      With regard to your opinion that text messages aren't meaningful, I think you're just old. They're just another form of communication. Communicating in nothing but 160 char. messages is a problem, but using 160 char. messages often is simply adapting to technology. People made the same argument about email or the telephone when they said that they preferred a handwritten letter and waiting weeks to hear back from people.

      What I can't stand about most young people (aka, people my age) is that they have to be texting wherever the fuck they go. Kids today think it's OK to just go ahead and text while in the middle of a conversation. It's not even a "hey, I have to take this, sorry" like you get when the person you're talking to receives a phone call. Every time someone starts texting in the middle of a conversation I have an urge to punch them right in the face. They don't realize that texting is diverting their attention from the conversation and that that's rude to do. I don't care what form of technology it is, diverting your attention from a conversation is rude. I cannot for the live of me comprehend this behavior.

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    5. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It must be very lonely at the top.

    6. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      "That's because phone calls are fucking annoying."

      If you get a phone call from someone you are dating, and you find that annoying, it is probably a pretty solid indication that you should find someone more suitable to date. OMFG! ROTFLMAO! Did I just post that on Slashdot? How do I update my emotional status here? I have 1000 imaginary friends that are just itching to know how I feel!

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    7. Re:You're doing it wrong. by TrekkieGod · · Score: 1

      Phone calls don't need to "interrupt" your day

      By definition, they interrupt your day. When you get a phone call, you must stop what you're doing and answer it. If you can't answer it at the time, then what do you do? You return the call later when you're free, and interrupt the other person with whatever it is that they are doing.

      A text has no such obligation. My phone vibrates, I know I've gotten a text. I continue doing what it is that I'm doing until such time as I am ready to read it. Yes, e-mail is equivalent now that everyone has smart phones, but back when the texts became popular, it was a guaranteed way to get a message to someone who wasn't necessarily at their computer.

      --

      Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.

    8. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "you are missing a great deal when you remove them both from the equation."
      - Only if you favor the idiots way of communicating, i.e via sarcasm and irony. Skip those, speak straight, and your problems with texting disappear.

    9. Re:You're doing it wrong. by SacredNaCl · · Score: 1

      What I can't stand about most young people (aka, people my age) is that they have to be texting wherever the fuck they go. Kids today think it's OK to just go ahead and text while in the middle of a conversation. It's not even a "hey, I have to take this, sorry" like you get when the person you're talking to receives a phone call. Every time someone starts texting in the middle of a conversation I have an urge to punch them right in the face. They don't realize that texting is diverting their attention from the conversation and that that's rude to do. I don't care what form of technology it is, diverting your attention from a conversation is rude. I cannot for the live of me comprehend this behavior.

      Unfortunately, a lot of it now begins with the parents that buy their kids handhelds as a way to babysit them in the car because it makes their life easier. They also use them to babysit them in Church, because it makes the parents hour there a lot easier to not have squirrel-like children fighting, disrupting the service, drawing a scene, talking, and whatever else during. The same parents usually have a DVD player in the mini-van, a WII/XBox at home, a pair of DS's/DSi's for their kids, and tend to doll out the ipod/ipad's for Christmas. After the kids become hopelessly addicted to the little blue screen they also become somewhat easier to control by threatening to take their electronics away. It can make family trips a little less aggravating, and even I'll give in on a road trip to make the experience better. (I also wear ear plugs for those, and not just for the road noise!)

      The downside of the electronics is that you can end up with tweens that have poor social skills, will bury their heads in the devices when company is over, and can't sit still without a handheld device to play on.

      I'm not above this problem myself. Although I can take credit for not contributing to the problem; I didn't buy any of the handhelds for them. However, I did them let them in the house for two kids age 11, and 7 against my better judgment. Its a bit of torture, but all of the electronics (including the TV) will go bye bye for the duration of Lent. When we did this last year, the first week of it was pure torture, but by about the 2nd week the kids had adapted to doing other things. The effect does wear off quickly when the electronics are returned, but some of the benefits socially linger on for awhile.

      --
      Freedom is merely privilege extended unless enjoyed by one and all.
    10. Re:You're doing it wrong. by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Speaking of fucking annoying that's how I view text messages

      They're great for cowards wanting to end relationships though. Nothing makes a point like "u r dumped LOL"

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    11. Re:You're doing it wrong. by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      With regard to your opinion that text messages aren't meaningful, I think you're just old. They're just another form of communication.

      But why do you need to be constantly communicating with someone you're just going out on a date for anyway?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    12. Re:You're doing it wrong. by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      I'm curious why you went to phone calls when I never mentioned them in my initial post?

      You said:

      Imagine my surprise when I learned that it's virtually impossible to date these days without an unlimited texting package. Nobody knows (or at least nobody I've dated) how to talk anymore.

      Thus, they (and I) made the reasonable inference that you were referring to phone calls for contact when you weren't with each other, as opposed to text messaging (or e-mail, or voice-mail).

  14. Yeah.. by raehl · · Score: 5, Funny

    My social skills are fine, asshole!

    1. Re:Yeah.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      social skills fine, tourette's syndrome- encroaching

  15. interesting article. by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 1

    I think that it's a pretty good article. I think 8 to 12 year range is kind of too narrow and it wasn't a longitudinal study, so we don't get the clear big picture here. It's been mentioned here that social skills are changing overall. Yet, we're still bound by human intuition in terms of how to interact socially(Whether or not they're intrinsic to humanity or not; that's another point. They're certainly nearly universal). These kids are still going to need to get jobs, meet people who aren't geeks etc.

    There's an awesome quote that made the apple fanboy part of me die laughing.

    FaceTime and Skype are not replacements for actual face time

    --
    Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
  16. at least they're not as socially awkward by matty619 · · Score: 2

    As all those tween girls frantically posting to Slasdot all day.

    1. Re:at least they're not as socially awkward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe they selected for the girls with Aspie tendencies by selecting for those with good computer skills

  17. To New by Grindalf · · Score: 0

    The tech is too new, this data will take quite a while before it can be gathered. Does it not strike you as a little strange and out of the ordinary to attempt to gather this information for this research project? Does it strike you as even slightly likely that this finding is true in well adjusted, healthy people?

    --
    The purpose of existence is to make money.
  18. Ruin my day by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is not what I go to slashdot to read. Nerd success stories only, please.

  19. Welcome to the 21st century by russotto · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Multitasking between various digital devices, communicating online, and watching video ARE normal social skills nowadays.

    1. Re:Welcome to the 21st century by Gibgezr · · Score: 1

      ^^ this
      For proof, I submit my oldest daughter, who I have seen on multiple occasions engaged in discussions with friends simultaneously on: twitter/facebook/SMS/Skype/ and not one but *two* phones, both held in front of her so the people on each phone could hear each other, her, and the Skype session on her netbook...

      She seems very popular, gets along with just about everyone no matter what the age, does very well in school. She is also dating a very handsome young man atm, who is capable of carrying on communications with her on at least 3 channels at a time =.=

    2. Re:Welcome to the 21st century by Tom · · Score: 2

      No, they aren't skills, they are disabilities.

      Lots and lots of people claim that they are good at multi-tasking. Study after study proves them all wrong - humans are horrible at multi-tasking. What we are excellent in is fooling ourselves with regards to our abilities.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    3. Re:Welcome to the 21st century by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      Moreover, there are loads of people who are genuinely introverted and/or afraid to go out in public or talk to people in person at all. I imagine quite a few of them would be much more comfortable communicating and interacting with people when there's a digital wall between them.

    4. Re:Welcome to the 21st century by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      She is also dating a very handsome young man atm, who is capable of carrying on communications with her on at least 3 channels at a time =.=

      Oral, vaginal and anal simultaneously? I'm impressed.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    5. Re:Welcome to the 21st century by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up. Multi-tasking is just multi-failing when attempted by humans.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  20. Nice science by Superdarion · · Score: 1

    You know, I'm sick and tired of all these articles about "studies" proving this and proving that, where that "study" refers to a fucking poll! That is NOT science, that is not a study, that is not a good way to draw conclusions. Period.

  21. Tweens, meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Sysadmin here.

    I rapidly switch between Skype, E-mail and the Phone.

    I hate my life, I hate your life, I hate the world, and I'm voting Republican in 2012 in hopes that the Earth will be destroyed.

    Social problems much?

    1. Re:Tweens, meh. by couchslug · · Score: 1

      "I hate my life, I hate your life, I hate the world, and I'm voting Republican in 2012 in hopes that the Earth will be destroyed."

      Lots of us felt like that before there was an internet.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
  22. Reading Discovery Girls causes social problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...

  23. Isn't it the other way round? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I had social problems LONG before I was ever addicted to tech. Mind you, I think they came from my other nerdy tendencies :)

  24. Don't write this off by Prune · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm saying the following as a software developer (among other things), which may or may not be ironic: I've always had the concern for the potential (often actualized) of information technology to be socially detrimental. From evolutionary psychology we know that despite the appearances of a very flexible psyche, significant components of most of our behaviors and thinking are hardwired by biology. Nurture only has so much leeway within the boundaries set by nature. Millions of years of evolution have created a social animal that is well fit to a specific environment of foraging tribalism. Civilization has already in a mere 10k years taken us quite far from that, and we've built a sort of human zoo for ourselves. For all the benefits this has brought, many detriments have come about as well, a lot of them having to do with people's actions today often influencing people with whom they have no personal relationships (contrast a tribe where everyone knows everyone else in the tribe and members rarely had influence outside the tribe), much more indirect links between appropriate behavior and reward (creating stress), and so on. Information technology is taking us further yet from our biologically optimal environment, and I have no confidence it will turn out well. Our social interactions have become a perverted version of what we've evolved for, and patterns of interaction through technology abuse the neurological mechanisms responsible for controlling communication and other social aspects of the mind, in the same way that spaghetti programming abuses the goto statement.

    [This part of the post is a bit tangential and may be skipped.] Some people would say that everything will be fine because eventually technology and biotechnology will be used to directly enhance our minds and bodies, so that we can exceed our biological constraints. These people ignore the problem of our moral/ethical frameworks, which are grounded in the brain's evolutionary heritage, being incapable of guiding us in such a future as there is no precedent in the evolution of moral/ethical behavior. Simple example: 60 years in the future a person begins being slowly "enhanced" by replacing one by one his neurons, and then other cells, with artificial or bioengineered ones that initially duplicate function and then bring online enhanced functionality; eventually the whole person's consistence has been replaced; now contrast this to, instead, making a recording of all relevant information about the person, building an artificial copy, and killing the original; same result, yet the second version feels wrong to most people. Our morals/ethics are not equipped for situations that have no analogy whatsoever to anything in our evolutionary past. If we extend ourselves, we would have to extend our morals and ethics too, and the latter extension is basically arbitrary.

    --
    "Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason."
    1. Re:Don't write this off by jez9999 · · Score: 2

      Our social interactions have become a perverted version of what we've evolved for, and patterns of interaction through technology abuse the neurological mechanisms responsible for controlling communication and other social aspects of the mind

      I don't really understand why modern social interactions are 'preverting' or 'abusing' our evolutionary neurological mechanisms. Care to expand on that? It seems to me that we're communicating in different ways, and over greater distances... but that doesn't really mean your statement is true.

      Our morals/ethics are not equipped for situations that have no analogy whatsoever to anything in our evolutionary past. If we extend ourselves, we would have to extend our morals and ethics too, and the latter extension is basically arbitrary.

      Virtually all of our morals and ethics beyond "don't kill too many people" (which must be hardwired into the surviving because the others died when they killed each other) are an arbitrary creation of culture. I think you could even make a (relatively miserable) society survive with a morality that stealing and raping was OK. It would just be far from the most happy society - as indeed today's societies are in many ways.

    2. Re:Don't write this off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit. We are not that much hardwired by whatever you call "biology". We have adapted and we will adapt even more than you can imagine. Both our bodies and mind. Stop living 10k years ago.

  25. Correlation is not causation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't they teach people that correlation is not causation these days?

    I'm not particularly highly skilled in the social arts, but I didn't have all these technological gadgets when I was a kid. I'm just maladjusted, like the bookworms of yore (back in the days when books were printed on paper).

  26. Is this what passes for medical research nowadays? by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 1

    Is this really the best that medical research can come up with?

    There's a ton of potential correlations that people have noticed which would be medically relevant if only someone would take the time to check them out.

    How about looking into the supplements people take to see if they have any effect? Not just the "trace doses on a population of subjects with a known genetic cause seems to have no effect" kind of study, but a real studies which could validate or dismiss the various claims that people make about supplements.

    Does taking extra vitamin D correlate [inversely] with SAD? Or depression in general? How about correlating people who take iodine supplements with depression? Do magnesium supplements help? Does vitamin D help prevent cancer?

    How about looking into diseases and conditions for which there is no known cause? Post prandial syndrome? Keratolysis exfoliativa? How about eliminating one or more proposed "possible causes", thus encouraging people to look elsewhere and to not spend money on treatments which can have no effect?

    The research in the article has little obvious significance, throws very little light on what appears to be a non-problem, and since there is no sense of importance it doesn't inform policy. (Is this a problem? Should we be concerned? Does this cry out for regulation?)

    By way of contrast, Erin Brockovich is looking into an apparent disease (or condition) affecting teenagers in western NY. It's salient, important, and useful both from a medical and political perspective. Even if she finds nothing, her research will eliminate one or more proposed causes.

    Shouldn't we be doing that type of research? You know - the type that actually tries to help people?

  27. And the definition of "normal" is what? by rhysweatherley · · Score: 2
    I'm guessing the researcher's definition of "normal social tendencies" is:

    Grows up a little princess, sheltered from the big bad world, only goes on dates at chaperoned events in clear sight of her father, until some presentable young man with good prospects asks her father for permission to put a ring on her finger.

    And this from the article is just WTF:

    A few years ago, Nass worked on a study about how multitasking affects adults. He found that heavy multitaskers experience cognitive issues, such as difficulty focusing and remembering things. They were actually worse at juggling various activities, a skill crucial to many people's work lives, than those who spent less time multitasking, Nass said.

    So someone who is good at multitasking is worse at juggling various activities? What does multitasking even mean if not juggling?

    I have experienced older relatives getting upset when I'm just reading to myself, sending e-mails, or surfing the net, instead of talking to them. Social does not mean I HAVE to socialize with YOU.

    1. Re:And the definition of "normal" is what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      people don't really multi-task. they task switch. not the same at all. even a bad programmer knows the overhead of task switching when you have limited IO., like the brain.

    2. Re:And the definition of "normal" is what? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I have experienced older relatives getting upset when I'm just reading to myself, sending e-mails, or surfing the net, instead of talking to them. Social does not mean I HAVE to socialize with YOU.

      If your older relatives want to talk to you, you should either do so, or explain that you are busy. Just carrying on surfing the net while they are trying to have a conversation is exactly as rude as reading a newspaper and ignoring them.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  28. Last sentence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Boys' emotional development is more difficult to analyze because male social development varies widely and over a longer time period, he said."

    tl;dr: It's difficult to tell because adolescent boys are already mostly crazy.

  29. So what? Dope em up by Osgeld · · Score: 1

    LIttle Judy cant focus cause she is bombarded with blinky shit fighting for attention on every square inch of her life? dope-em! thats why its there, no need to be a parent and turn the shit off once in a damn while, let you 6 year old have 24/7 access to a smartphone, video games, tv and the internet ... how ever else will she learn how to use these things? I mean geez parents it took you like forever to push a button and click a mouse right?

  30. Boring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The problem, in general, is that we are required to multitask, and have been ever since the "office environment" and "school environment" existed. Only every year businesses and schools are required to squeeze more performance out of increasingly stressful environments.

    In my opinion, and I say this bluntly as possible. We are nearing the end for personalized communications. 20 years from now, it will be whatever Twitter and Facebook morph into, with the odd picture or video thrown in. Nobody wants to talk with their voice anymore because people don't want the stress of being yelled or screamed at. On the plus side, children will learn to deal with trolls earlier on, and not want to lock themselves away in the basement for the rest of their lives the first time someone violates their privacy.

    I've been working with people online for the last 10 years without a single phone call. This works fine. Everything is said, in text, without any sarcasm or taken out of context since I can refer back to previous conversations.

    I've worked in call centers. People love to scream to get what they want. They've brought this upon themselves. It's the reaction to being confronted with stress, is to take the least stressful means of conversation.

    The last place I worked for (with a regular paycheck) everyone preferred the computer. Few people came over to talk unless it had to be off-the-record.

    And that's where we are today. Digital paper trails, and off-the-record voice conversations. If you're serious, you send an email, if you're not , you speak aloud.

  31. Does that mean they are all becoming nerds? by NicknamesAreStupid · · Score: 1

    That is either radically cool or a forewarning of doom for our society, probably both.

  32. What "social problems"? What is "normal"? by FoolishOwl · · Score: 2

    I'm not just asking rhetorically: the article is lacking any meaninful information, and begs many questions. It says that online interactions do not substitute for "real" interactions, but why aren't online interactions "real", and if they are distinctly different in character from offline interactions, what makes them worse, rather than better, or rather than simply different?

    What social problems are we talking about? Are we talking about differences that young women would themselves consider problems? Or is it simply a preference for online interaction?

    It's entirely likely that the actual study cites real problems. But like everyone else here, I've had a lot of experiences with people denouncing my interests as "not real" and inferior to "real" activities, and I'm conscious that there's a lot of social pressure on people in general and women in particular to conform to toxic social norms. So I can't help but suspect that the study is complaining that some women are nerds. And we like nerds here.

  33. Scientific study or a survey? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is it a survey or a scientific study? They are mutually exclusive you know.

  34. Coincidence by goldaryn · · Score: 3, Funny

    Siri and I were just talking about this

  35. Dreamy by jimmetry · · Score: 1

    Every scientist dreams of publishing in the journal "Wall Street", known for their strict and reputable peer review process. But more importantly, isn't ocean acidification, NOT the warming itself, the most immediate threat to the ecosystem? And this idea that the models don't fit beyond the bounds of the plots shown to the public has been argued and debunked over and over again.

    1. Re:Dreamy by jimmetry · · Score: 1

      Huh.... How the hell did I end up in this article? Sorry :\

    2. Re:Dreamy by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Huh.... How the hell did I end up in this article? Sorry :\

      I think you need to develop your communication skills, but at least your social skills are OK.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  36. New technology, same old symptoms? by MacTO · · Score: 2

    I would like to see a study that compares various technologies and the social behaviour of children. The reason is simple enough: there have always been children with poorly developed social skills. The difference is the technology that they bury themselves in.

    Today, it seems to be telecommunications technology and social networking. That's what this study is about. In the 80's and 90's, kids buried themselves in computers and video games. In the 60's and 70's, there was the TV epidemic. Throughout the whole time, less social children have been engrossed in the most insidious technology of all: books.

    So my question is this: is this 'desocialization' of children remaining at the same levels historically, or is it actually getting worse? Somehow, I suspect there has been little if any change because I suspect that children who are less social migrate to these technologies as an outlet. And if that is the case, can the new technologies improve socialization skills. After all, we are talking about communications technology these days. You use SMS or Facebook to converse with people. If you alienate people using those media, you are cut off. That should incentivize better social behaviour.

    But all of this is speculation, since I have questions but not the tools to investigate it.

  37. Re:"least likely to develop normal social tendenci by Gibgezr · · Score: 1

    Um, I don't know what you are reading into his message, but I didn't see anywhere that he was still dwelling on high school. Remembering != dwelling, and remembering that many other people's idea of normal social tendencies in HS was adolescent cliques and follow-the-leader posturing does not comment on *his* social tendencies, then or now.

  38. Oh please, this reeks of "pulled out of ass" by kilodelta · · Score: 1

    Why? I grew up with gadgets, the primitive ones. I'm no more socially awkward because of it. And yes, I have 12 tabs open right now. So what?

  39. Wow, maybe the most completely BS assumption ever? by Cute+Fuzzy+Bunny · · Score: 1

    "The study only included girls who responded to a survey in Discovery Girls magazine, but results should apply to boys, too, Clifford Nass, a Stanford professor of communications who worked on the study, said in a phone interview. Boys' emotional development is more difficult to analyze because male social development varies widely and over a longer time period, he said."

    I'm pretty sure that there is absolutely no correlation between the emotional development of young girls and young boys. Having been a young boy and being the father of a ridiculous number of young boys and girls, I can say with considerable authority that what one gender does and how they respond has nothing to do with the other gender.

  40. Facebook by thegarbz · · Score: 1

    Totally THIS!

    We have this debate at family dinners quite often. We "don't keep in touch with our friends" is what the parents come up with. The fact is they don't understand modern social media. I don't need to take some random out to dinner once a year to catchup because I am always caught up. I don't need to send letters or mass emails to friends like my parents do updating them about their lives.

    They don't seem to realise that we are communicating in a different way. Facebook. Who need to catchup with people when they post their entire lives on their news feed? That random not very close friend from highschool, I can tell you where he works who he's dating, and his current big problems in life, they were all posted right there on his wall. Late night schmoozing on the phone from the bedroom? Screw that, lets sms, or if you need to talk to someone in realtime fire up skype or facebook messenger.

    The study doesn't realise that we are now more social in very different ways. It may not conform to their world view, but screw it our view will be the new world view in 20 years.

    1. Re:Facebook by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Utter bullshit. Posting on Facebook is probably as good as writing letters or calling on the phone, but none of these are the same as actually meeting people face to face.

      And anyone who reveals to the world what his problems are on Facebook is simply an exhibitionistic arsehole, nothing new it's just a lot more fashionable these days.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    2. Re:Facebook by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      So I suppose you could gain more insight into having a 2 hour dinner with a "friend" who you don't really care about once every 6-12 months? You're right facebook and face to face are totally not the same thing.

      Mind you if you re-read my post I'm also not talking about close friends, or friends you actually make an effort to see. I'm talking about communicating with the people you don't. i.e. the family you catch up with at the dredded reunion bbq, the people who you send a christmas card to every so often. Using modern communication mediums like facebook allows you to know more about a wider variety of people.

      It is a "Social Network", quite the opposite from a "Social Problem"

  41. Girls with ... by PPH · · Score: 1

    ... impaired social skills? Great! Now we've got someone who will date Slashdotters.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
    1. Re:Girls with ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dating, getting married and living an unhappy life, that's so desirable!

    2. Re:Girls with ... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Dating, getting married and living an unhappy life, that's so desirable!

      It's better than never dating, never getting married, becoming a genius at WoW and living an unhapy life.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  42. What is a social tendency? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What are normal social tendencies, and how would one develop one? Does it involve a new programming language?

  43. conclusive by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    Tween girls who spend much of their waking hours switching frantically between YouTube, Facebook, television and text messaging are more likely to develop social problems, says a Stanford University study published in a scientific journal on Wednesday.

    I asked my young niece, my sister's daughter, what she thought of this study. She said she disagreed with its findings.

    I asked her why and after removing her left earphone she said, "Fuck you, that's why."

    I would have been more disturbed about her reaction if I didn't understand that she had gotten that answer from hearing the way her mom and I have spoken to each other since we were kids.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  44. Calm yourselves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In this case, "poor social skills" means that the girls don't put out.

    They receive all of their validation through responses to Facebook posts -- posts of themselves from strategic angles, angles that hide the enormity of their blubber.

    The responses are from manchildren hoping that compliments will get them laid. Spoilers: it isn't a good strategy.

  45. Evolution can be our friend. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Plenty to question about how this conclusion was drawn.

    I will sidestep all of that. I say, hurray, the technologically advanced we get, the fewer people who are going to have children. We need fewer social skills so the population will drop. TOO many people already. Fewer people, fewer problems. Fewer social contacts, fewer dates, fewer physical contacts, fewer resulting new people.

    Heck we need to provide free phones with unlimited texting, twitter and facebook accounts to every female in the developing world at no cost to them whatsoever. Why just the women?

    Well, we do need to keep the techo-nerd genes around. This way it will still exert a bit of selective pressure to get a larger than average number of techno males in touch with all the texting tweener females. Make the males recognize they need texting phones and compete to get them (and the women that come along with them perhaps).

  46. Not just anti-social, a bad reader too by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 1

    What you fail to grasp is that just because someone multi-tasks, this doesn't mean they are any good at it OR that it is the right approach to take.

    You seem to think that you are multi-tasking BUT are you doing any of the things you do as good as you could be doing them if you didn't have the attention span of a kitten? Don't even bother saying that when you try, it makes no difference, all that shows is that people who multi-task without being very good at it are just bad at single tasks as well.

    I couldn't find that first supposed quote in the article. Adding your own quotes as fact to a piece of research? Gosh, let me add a bit of my own, when someone reacts so violently it is usually the case of the truth getting a bit to close.

    It is well known that normal humans loose the capacity to fully focus on a individual task when more tasks are being added. You cannot just keep giving new tasks to a person and expect them to do them all equally well at the same time. Yet this is exactly what multi-taskers pride themselves on, they go against decades of research to make sure highly trained and focussed fighter pilots are not overloaded with tasks and claim they can do an endless variety of tasks without any loss in quality... makes sense, if you live in lala-land.

    And being social DOES mean having to be social even if you don't always want to. Being a social person doesn't just mean only when you want to with who you want to but to be able to have as a normal human being even in less then ideal situations. Fleeing from a family gathering to check your email is the hallmark of a badly adjusted and anti-social person.

    Trust me, you are talking on a nerd site, we know about these things.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:Not just anti-social, a bad reader too by darkfeline · · Score: 1

      Remember kids, only multi-threaded processes on multi-core processors can handle real multi-tasking. No matter how fast a single core (like your brain) is, it can only ever fake multi-tasking.

  47. Citation by FrootLoops · · Score: 1
    After some searching, the article appears to be this one, "Media use, face-to-face communication, media multitasking, and social well-being among 8- to 12-year-old girls." Abstract:

    An online survey of 3,461 North American girls ages 8-12 conducted in the summer of 2010 through Discovery Girls magazine examined the relationships between social well-being and young girls' media use-including video, video games, music listening, reading/homework, e-mailing/posting on social media sites, texting/instant messaging, and talking on phones/video chatting-and face-to-face communication. This study introduced both a more granular measure of media multitasking and a new comparative measure of media use versus time spent in face-to-face communication. Regression analyses indicated that negative social well-being was positively associated with levels of uses of media that are centrally about interpersonal interaction (e.g., phone, online communication) as well as uses of media that are not (e.g., video, music, and reading). Video use was particularly strongly associated with negative social well-being indicators. Media multitasking was also associated with negative social indicators. Conversely, face-to-face communication was strongly associated with positive social well-being. Cell phone ownership and having a television or computer in one's room had little direct association with children's socioemotional well-being. We hypothesize possible causes for these relationships, call for research designs to address causality, and outline possible implications of such findings for the social well-being of younger adolescents. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2012 APA, all rights reserved).

    I don't have access to the study itself. I hope that any peer-reviewed study would address the concerns you voiced (and many more). Obviously the CNN article is crap; in the absence of more information, I'll at least give the article the benefit of the doubt and suspend judgement.

  48. Ethanol-fueled, you behave now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anonymity can't hide your writing style.

    You're just jealous that these kind of women actually know what respect is and they pick hambeast husbands and mostly compete to your career in the job market. You don't like how religion empowers women? Just remember that in religions world-wide, it is the woman that is commanded to remain quiet...because every man knows she's the only one that asked for directions and knows the answer. They are all like clones of Ada, praise the LADY.

  49. Multi-tasking = Essential = BAD by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 1

    Somehow the idea that multi-tasking not only is necessary but a GOOD thing has become entwined in our society, especially under the influence of women who claim they are better at it then men and that men with their single task focus are obsolete...

    Yet, the military STILL likes to put TWO people in charge of complex fighting machine. If not more? Why? Especially in fighter planes there is no technical need for it anymore. So why still two people or more to divide the tasks? Can highly intelligent, well trained and physically fit fighter pilots not focus on more then one task at a time? No, not as good as two or more people can. It isn't just direct control of the vehicle, it is dealing with all the information that is needed. Awacs aircraft don't just pipe their data straight to fighter pilots to sort out, it is processed so that task is taken away from the pilot. Radio communication is limitted to what a pilot needs to hear, not all the chatter around to avoid him being overloaded.

    OVERLOAD, that is part but not all off the problem. Our brain is not an infinite machine, proof? Magicians. Our eyes take in the photons of the whole act, yet by waving a hand here, we move a hand there. Often quite close to each other. Even our amazing eyes and massive brain can be so easily overloaded that we miss what must obviously be happen (we know there is not such thing as real magic) and be fooled by the lie we know is happening right in front of us. Try it, most people even if they KNOW the trick is taking place have trouble actually spotting it. This is why red circles have been invented as overlays to draw our attention within a image to a specifc spot.

    It would therefor make sense that setting a security guard to work watching a dozen monitors with each dozens of people is going to make it pretty damn hard to focus on all of them. And gosh, that is fact and why a lot of money is being put on AI systems that can do the looking instead.

    But there is also another element to multi-tasking: avoiding spending your full attention to a single task. The bad students amongst us or those of us who know bad students are probably familiar with the ritual of finding the right music, the right snack, the right drink etc etc to make study easier... not it isn't, but because you hate the task of studying you add tasks to limit focussing on your study and voila, you only succeeded in making it harder for yourself and therefor will hate it even more. Meanwhile the good student just gets on with it in far less time by just focussing on the one task.

    If you can only concentrate on one task at the time, then that is a mental handicap that is quite serious. But somehow the current fashion is to think of those who cannot concentrate on a single task at a time as natural multi-taskers. They might well be, but is that a good thing? It seems to taken for granted that because a person multi-tasks, they are automatically good at it and that none of their tasks suffer because of it.

    There is a further problem, how you perform a task, matters. Sending an email to someone or a text is NOT the same as a face to face chat. And if you rather handle a dozen online conversations at the same time while avoiding your family downstairs... are you not just fleeing to your room to avoid a social situation you are unable to deal with? This is a nerd site, how many here posted on a friday night when they could have gone out and told themselves they choose to stay home alone? When you are a social misfit, at least have the courage to admit it.

    I am not saying it is wrong but what would society look like if all PEOPLE were nerds? If I look fondly back on SWG memories rather then dates, that is just half a million people world wide. But if facebook users did the same, it might well affect the birth rate.

    What I have noticed, as a MMO player is that more and more I am playing with young people who lack any awareness that if you group, you are grouping with other living human beings who have their own desires and goals and tho

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

  50. Normal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What is normal? And why would ANYONE want to be JUST normal?

    1. Re:Normal? by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      Because anyone or anything that isn't "normal" must be eliminated. Why? Because I said so.

      Everyone must enjoy chatting about 'pointless' things.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
  51. Cheaper than phone calls? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What planet do you live in? It is very well known that 1 text message cost more than 4 minutes of LONG DISTANCE CALL.

    A Text message cost an average of $0.25 each and long distance call cost an average of $0.05 per minute.

    1. Re:Cheaper than phone calls? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Per minute averages don't mean anything. You have to include flagfall.

    2. Re:Cheaper than phone calls? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For those not living in Australian, flagfall

  52. Re:"least likely to develop normal social tendenci by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some of us would like to know what those tendencies were. To some of us, old stuff is cool :)

  53. Antisocial nerdy girls always existed by sandytaru · · Score: 1

    I know, I was one of them. But back when I was 10-12, we didn't have constant online access or cell phones or Facebook. The most I got was an hour of PC time at a computer lab on Saturdays, and what connection time I could steal from my best friend's house (I did have one of those, at least) since her family had a family computer and Prodigy. (I think I just dated myself.) So we were stuck with some mild social skills impairment due to natural introversion, but no other outlet for our desire for human communication. So I read books all the time instead.

    I think it's easier when you're an adult. You can turn off the computer and go visit an actual real life friend and just get drunk with them, like I did earlier this evening. We actually turned off the television and just chatted for a few hours. Social skills can be acquired more readily once you're not a little kid.

    --
    Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
  54. or: Tech illiterate exhibit excess of social skill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Really we have too few social anthropologists in science. Frankly I think social anthropology should be taught to our young as well as maths, science and computer programming and a sensible mix of history, philosophy, etc. For joined up thinking you need joined up teaching.
    I would like to avoid posting my thoughts on the link between intelligence and social skills. However I find the copy pasting of my comments on the subject from the escapistmagazine.com forums as relayed to a friend useful.

    This time the topic was intelligence and somebody said they were smart thus had poor social skills, and another person said it didn't have to be a trade off. I felt compelled to come in with this. Enjoy.

    It's like the term "being on their wavelength." Intelligence being the wavelength in question. People find it easier to communicate with people within a certain range of their own level of intelligence. Outside that scope it becomes more of a struggle. Since people in the mid-range of intelligence find more people fall inside their scope they are perceived as having better social skills since they get on with a greater number of people. As people approach either end of the spectrum the number of people they can communicate adequately with falls. So the perception of social skills falls in line with that.

    In short being mediocre is preferable socially. You might think that a really smart person would be able to talk down well enough, but alas the difference in human intelligence is really rather small and the human brain doesn't normally have such extra capacity to model slightly simpler minds (although I wouldn't rule it out with training; teachers may be an obvious place to look for such skills).

  55. Maybe the change is a good thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My Grandfather didn't like to talk to his Mom on the phone.
    My Father didn't like to talk to him Mom on the phone.
    I don't like to talk to my Mom on the phone.

    I however don't mind talking to her over email at all.

    I grew up in a world of "in person" conversation. And what everyone seemed to do was add the "social lubricant" of alcohol.

    Let's consider something.

    Some people learn from doing, some learn from listening, some people learn from seeing.
    Some people like communicating in person, some like the phone, some like written.

    Bad? Good? NO. Different. We are just offering more options to more people.

    Don't assume that just because things change, they are changing for the worse.

  56. WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    didn't RTFA of course, but this seems highly counterintuitive. The people I know who spend the most time doing things with other people and are the most friendly and outgoing are precisely the ones who have 900 friends on Facebook and spend every possible minute of downtime at work texting. It's people like me who sometimes go three or four days without turning the cellphone on who are pretty much outcasts with something like 3 friends (in the real sense, not the Facebook sense).

  57. The results "should apply to boys too". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    After a limited study, let's make a generalized extrapolated assumption and not test it. Very scientific.

  58. Is this science? by O'Nazareth · · Score: 1

    Is it by using technologies that you become socially impaired, or is it because you are becoming socially impaired that you used technologies? If my so called friends were not that annoying to me when I was a kid, I would probably not be a software engineer today. When I see "the survey of 3,461 American girls aged 8 to 12 who volunteered responses", I think that does not mean much. If I read something like "the sample was randomly divided in two, the first sample was given new hitech gadget every year, the second not" maybe that would be different.

  59. rubbish by Pugwash69 · · Score: 1

    It seems to me that modern kids talk to their friends a lot more that. I ever used to! When I was 15, being social was getting you mate to bring his computer around so you could play linked games by serial port. I had maybe 2 or 3 good friends I saw outside of school. Today our kids regularly talk online to many more people, have better grammar and writing skills and enjoy being social online. P.s. I met my wife on icq.

    --
    Pro Coffee Drinker
    1. Re:rubbish by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Today our kids regularly talk online to many more people, have better grammar and writing skills

      You appear to have taken some form of mind- or reality-altering drug.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  60. Normal is what gets you a job by tepples · · Score: 2

    Based on my experiences working through one state's vocational rehabilitation system, I'd say the state defines "normal behavior" as what gets and keeps you a job. This has a lot to do with how people are expected to act in interviews and meetings and is thus determined by corporate hiring managers.

  61. Alternative Title by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

    Teens continue to redefine normal, much to the chagrin of adults, again!

    --
    Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
  62. But wait... by Kreychek · · Score: 1

    Isn't saying "the same should apply to boys", and assuming the reader understands why, relying on a similar level of sense as the conclusion of the article itself?

  63. Polite response about boys by mercurywoodrose · · Score: 1

    That was very nice how he politely got around the fact that boys social development, even under ideal circumstances, is so far behind the average females social development as to barely register as such. Unless we make a supreme effort to work on our social skills, and consciously try to "grow", we are social idiots. Basement/moms house memes have a basis in reality.

    --
    You hear about the person who didn't rely on anecdotal evidence to support his belief system?
  64. Or it could be . . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That those who are considered to be socially 'abnormal' are simply more drawn to the technology?

  65. Just girls? by XrayJunkie · · Score: 1

    The authors of this survey assumed that teenage boys had these problems since the beginning of time ;-)

  66. who writes? by Jamel+Toms · · Score: 1

    Umm, did anyone else but me notice that it says, "PolygamousRanchKid writes..."?