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Journalist Arrested By Interpol For Tweet
New submitter StarWreck writes "Police in Kuala Lumpur detained Hamza Kashgari, 23, 'following a request made to us by Interpol' on behalf of the Saudi authorities. Kashgari, a newspaper columnist, fled Saudi Arabia after posting a tweet which read: 'I have loved things about you and I have hated things about you and there is a lot I don't understand about you I will not pray for you.' Said tweet sparked outrage in Saudi Arabia and resulted in multiple death threats. Kashgari faces the death penalty in Saudi Arabia."
Can someone enlighten me, please?
And it's not just those backwards fools everyone in the middle east talks about. There are upstanding, progressive regimes in Europe where there are literally things you can say that don't involve a threat of violence or which won't cause immediate danger to those around you ("I'm going to kill you!" or "Fire!") which are still considered illegal.
It's cute because these same nations are held up by many as paragons of virtue in terms of human rights, health care, standard of living, etc... Just don't voice an illegal opinion and you'll be fine, that's all.
Interpol has no "officers" to arrest anyone. It is a multinational organization that facilitates the sharing of info, and arrest warrants, between countries. Here, Saudi Arabia sent out an arrest warrant to Interpol and Interpol transmitted it to police in Kuala Lumpur. The police in Kuala Lumpur arrested. Interpol is just a middle man. We can argue whether it's good or bad (probably both), but Interpol doesn't "arrest" anybody and they didn't force the Lumpurian authorities to arrest. Interpol can't force the police of any State to act. Kuala Lumpur probably doesn't care about this guy and figured better relations with Saudi Arabia is more important.
is now going to murder journalists?
This seems more extreme than usual, even for the Saudis.
Yet another example of the so often cited "peaceful" and "understanding" nature of this religion. 'You might suck.' 'KILL HIM!!!!'
Somehow this is an insult to Mohammed? Wha? Makes no sense whatsoever. And Interpol should be saved for big stuff anyway, not doctrinal differences. Whoever authorized the arrest needs some remedial training.
Uh, "if it looks roughly mouse-shaped according to my infra-red sensitive pit, eat it"? --Chris Burke 09-08-10
The US Demanded that Interpol Arrest all the millions of citizens of the world who have at some time or another demanded 'Death to the US'. They even cited a number of people who led the demonstrations against the Vietnam war in the late 1960's.
Ok, so I'm joking but it shows how absurd this is.
I'll be waiting for a knock at the door and my speedy extradition to the USA where no doubt I'll get 999 years in Jail for daring to criticise the USofA.
Are they supposed to be used for serious criminal activities? Assange had no charges against him, hurt no one, stole from no one, and yet Interpol put out an arrest for him for his "sex crime", something they've never done in their history. Follow the money, people are embarrassed.
Now we see some ragheads have taken offense to a rubbish tweet, and use their vast wealth to abuse Interpol once again. Strange that making death threats is considered a non-event by these extreme religious nut jobs, yet doing the same in an Interpol office would have you arrested immediately.
From what I understand, Interpol does not arrest, they simply forward arrest warrants from member states. They don't even judge the merits of the warrants sent to them, they are assumed to be legitimate (as this probably was under Saudi Law). Regardless of cases such as this, Interpol is a very important agency in that it allows for cooperation between law enforcement agencies across the country, and keep criminals from simply skipping the country and getting off scott free.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
The situation is sad, but I could not resist a joke to add some levity to the conversation.
/. :
The same could be said about
'I have loved things about you (great submissions, brilliant posts) and I have hated things about you (useless news, trolls, goatse) and there is a lot I don't understand about you (why your code is still buggy after so many years) I will not pray for you.(But I will still read)'
Silence is a state of mime.
This is truly exaggerated... the meaning of what he said got lost into the translation and as I understand he is not a journalist.
That said... what he said which is a lot more than that tweet is punishable by Saudi law... He knew that very well I am sure or he must be an idiot.
I am not saying I agree with the law or not. but all I am saying is he broke a law. what he said a lot of people say but they don't go publishing it for the whole world to point at them and say "THAT'S THE GUY OFFICER! HERE'S THE EVIDENCE".
I agree change should happen, but this is rubbish every time we take a step into the right direction some idiot like this guy comes and rallies up the extremist from both sides the liberals and conservatives take us back 100 steps.
Twitter, facebook and the like have done as much for progressing the freedoms in countries like saudi arabia as they have helped push it back even further.
P.S. Please remember English is my second language
Cooperation between countries is fine when countries agree completely that something is a crime, and also agree somewhat on the appropriate sentence.
It is an extremely stupid organization if it simply does forward everything they receive to everyone.
Iran for example is party to Interpol too, maybe it is fine, according to your reasoning, if it submitted requests to arrest hostile US politicians to the US, too?
I'm just gonna say it right out. Fuck Muhammad and Islam, Fuck Jesus and Christianity and Fuck you and all religions where you have to pray to show devotion and destroy your enemies. Got to love this world. One one side you're getting fucked by your government, right next to it you are getting fucked by corporation and right next to that you're a target some some fucking religious freaks that instead of keeping away from you and minding their own business are trying to enslave or kill you.
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
"Kashgari faces the death penalty in Saudi Arabia."
In the name of Allah, the merciful, the compassionate - funny how that works.
If you don't get what I'm saying go thumb through the Quaran.
Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
When the time came for him to leave they had a big party and he asked someone if this guy really worked for the KGB, only to get the reply "No, no, so-and-so is the KGB rep, he's OK, that other guy just thinks everything is better in the West and keeps trying to prove it to us."
As my colleague remarked, imagine an American engineering company where one of the engineers kept trying to tell everybody that life was better in the Soviet Union. All right, he would be massively wrong, but he would also get fired very quick.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
The article says Interpol has many colored notices and that this instance may be a invalid use of a "red notice" but no where does the damn article say what a "red notice" is supposed to be used for.
Hamza Kashgari is a Saudi. The offense was committed in Saudi Arabia, from which he fled to Malaysia. That's a standard fugitive situation. He was in transit to New Zealand where he apparently intended to request political asylum.
Al Jazeera has images of his Twitter feed, with English translations. Here's the full text:
"On your birthday I find you in front of me wherever I go, I love many things about you and hate others, and there are many things about you I don't understand. On your birthday I won't bow in front of you, I won't kiss your hand. Instead, I will shake it as an equal, I will smile at you and you will smile back and I will talk to you as a friend, no more. All the great gods that we worship, all the great fears that we dread, all the desires that we wait for impatiently are but figments of our imagination. No Saudi women will go to hell, because it's impossible to go there twice."
It's amazing how touchy the Islamic theocracies are about this sort of thing. It's as if they're terrified that their whole religious edifice will collapse if there's any criticism. Islam has never had a Martin Luther.
when next you top off your gas tank.
If you know shouting "Fire" is likely to cause injury to others, and you do it, you may not be arrested (but you might be taken into custody for your own safety), and you may not be subject to criminal proceedings. But expect civil lawsuits that may well ruin you, and the bar for proof is lower than for criminal activity. Since damages in civil lawsuits in the US tend to be much higher than in the rest of the world, you could argue that, unless like the Westborough Baptists, you investigate the law beforehand, the consequences of anti-social behaviour can be much worse.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
youre still living in middle ages. that guy's 'extremism' was something that most of the world got over 200 years ago.
Read radical news here
If God can be damaged by words, then God cannot be all powerful. If a Muslim's faith can be shaken by words, does the Muslim really have any faith at all?
Being a journalist implies the guy is somewhat intelligent, which suggests a few questions:
1) Was he the one who actually tweeted? Ie, could this be a frameup to get rid of a pesky journalist?
2) If he was the one who tweeted, why didn't he do it while he was in a nice non-muslim country? Is he expecting the international community to bail him out, with a net improvement to his celebrity status?
He was arrested by the Maylasian police. Interpol just forwarded the request from Saudi Arabia. That's what they do. Don't impute more power to them than they already have. They'll have arrest powers soon enough and will start hauling people off to the ICC for "hate crimes" and "crimes against humanity". You'll all applaud. At first.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
The problem with this statement is very simple. If you actually implement this, you are basically making it impossible for muslims to live their religion. It is how their culture works and self-polices. Cut this out, and you destroy it.
Additionally, this is no joke. Saudis and a lot of muslims will scream (quite literally sometimes) about racism if you criticise their attitude towards "hate speech" (executing anyone they perceive as insulting, and there's plenty of example where the person didn't even say anything, it was just "generally thought" (sometimes because of lying) that he said/did/... something). Reading the actual primary sources of the religion, it's plain and obvious that this is how islam works, and they're vastly more flexible than the muslim example. The prophet had people buried in sand in the desert to watch them die for criticizing him.
Cutting out this means flat out declaring the central figure of islam to be an inhuman moronic, cruel paedophilic bastard.
Of course, that's exactly what he was.
Until we face this reality, and force muslims to accept people saying this everywhere on this world, this won't end.
But according to Islam, didn't early man fall away from God, causing death to exist in the first place? So doesn't that mean that death is *already* punishment? Sure, it takes a whole lot longer than execution - some 80 years or so... but the punishment is already there nonetheless.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
So much for the relgion of peace an there is no compulsion
He didn't say ideology, he said religion; and then backed that up even further by mentioning irrational beliefs.
These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
Some religions are worse than others. Pacifists generally don't run about murdering people. "Moderate" members of most mainstream religions don't generally murder people for saying they have silly beliefs.
But all religions promote irrational belief without any supporting evidence. All religions promote adhering to some beliefs no matter how barbaric, and then acting on those beliefs. All religions make it a virtue to ignore evidence, and promote stubborn pig headedness.
Anarchists never rule
Such a shameful people they are...
> The prophet Mohammed heard one of his wives was leaving him, so he rushed home where he found her on the carpet in front of his tent. He sat down beside her and said, “Why are you leaving me, wife?”
> “I heard one of the other wives say that you are a pedophile!” she answered.
> Mohammed thinks for a minute and responds, “That’s a mighty big word for a 6-year old!”
This might be a troll but it is not flamebait or inaccurate. In strict rural muslim areas Bestiality is very common for teenage boys and older men. When I was working for a film company doing a series on rural muslims in the late 90s I was pretty disgusted to see it basically everywhere we went for the series. Now you might not see it Tehran or Cairo but in the Afghan mountains, around the Peshwar region, and into Tajikistan and Uzbekistan I saw enough 13 year old boys fucking dogs and donkeys to last a life time. When we would film it our minders would get offended at the idea of showing their behavior and would sometimes end up beating the kid. I haven't worked outside of the EU or the Americas since.
Aren't you glad to learn something new today?
In my experience you're wrong. Talk to a Christian or Buddhist monk, and discuss science. You'll find them making good well thought out points (certainly beating the average person in the street by an order of magnitude).
Now do the same with an imam. It won't take long for a screaming match or open threats to surface.
It is really confusing. One of the fundamental tenet of Wahhabism, was to reduce the amount of veneration of Mohammad. They claim even having the idea of a holy site associated with mortals is idolatry. Wahhab was worried Muslims of elevating Mohammad to the status of God. Sunni's fundamental complaint against Shias is that the Shias worship many saints in addition to Allah. Now the bastion of Wahhabism, Saudi Arabia, is turning against a journalist for treating Mohammad as a human being?
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
The majority of people are pleased by the reassuring memes given to them from their media. Their TV says that their country is a paragon of human progress and freedom, so they believe it, even when such a statement is direct defiance of the facts.
Fact-gathering is hard. Holding your governors accountable for their evil is even harder. Believing everything is peachy (even when it is not) is SO much easier.
Our prevaricatocracy is allowed to thrive because people who like it that way greatly outnumber those of us who don't.
As an atheist, my list of "do not visit" countries is getting longer and longer.
When the fuck are we humans going to make it properly out of the dark ages?
Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
It's true that some religions are nicer and more rational than others. I think Buddha's teachings are alright, in that he encourages skepticism and doubt as the means to get past illusions, even including the illusion of the ego. In Buddha's philosophy sectarianism and blind belief are errors born of ignorance. The religions built around Buddha sometimes have superstitious elements, but that doesn't indict the rational psychological core. So I try to encourage people who believe in nutty things like the Son of God to look at Eastern philosophy more closely, to augment and clarify the rationale for their ethics and meditative practices. That makes me more of a Sam Harris style atheist, in that I perceive great value in things like yoga and meditation.
-- thinkyhead software and media
The use of boys for sex in Pashtunistan is a custom that predates Islam by centuries. You might have enough objectionable things within Islam itself to point to, and you only weaken your argument by talking about pre-Muslim customs that linger on.
every government that existed. every government that exists, and every government that ever will exist, will classify some speech as illegal. like child porn. for good reason
so first, get the fuck over the fact that some speech is illegal. grow up. the world is not a place where absolute adherence to any ideology is possible, including the ideology that all speech can or should be legal. to judge the world from this simpleton's point of view is to simply pick a logically impossible standard. making your judgment useless. it's pretty stupid to say "germany outlaws nazi speech. this is the same as china making all political speech illegal or saudi arabia making any religious speech illegal." NO. it is NOT the same thing
maybe some day you can actually begin to say something useful and intelligent by talking about what KINDS of speech are illegal, rather than picking this ridiculous easy and intellectual lazy point of view "all governments categorize some speech as illegal, so they are all the same." no they are NOT all the same, you halfwit. grow up and stuop being such a lazy fundamentalist. yes: you are a fundamentalist: you adhere ridiculously and absurdly to an idea that simply does not work in real life, just like a religious fundamentalist. you just happen to be a free speech fundamentalist. just as useless and dumb as any other sort of fundamentalist in this world
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
He's facing a death penalty just because he said he wouldn't pray for mohammed? wow.
So much for all the moderate moslems that are always claiming islam is a religion of peace and forgiveness.
If you had no oil, your women would be going topless and your sons would listening to death metal. Because you'd have no power structure to impose your medieval thinking in the modern world. The only reason you can, is because we, in the part of the world that actually builds things and actually works and actually tries to build civil and fair societies, we need to pay you for your oil.
But we in the modern world are pretty sick of your backwards thinking, and someday we'll figure out how to get off our addiction to the stuff I guess Allah buried in your sand. When we do that, you can be pretty sure that there will be no more force left in your ability to impose your ridiculous absurd thinking about religion on anyone, most definitely including your own children and grand children. AND YOUR WAY OF THINKING WILL DISAPPEAR.
In short, I have every respect for Islam, but I have nothing but disrespect for your way of thinking of your religion. Fuck you you backwards ignorant tribal assholes. You don't stand for Islam. Any REAL Muslim with REAL CONFIDENCE in their religion would not care what some doubtful journalist tweets. Any cowardly, spineless, and completely without confidence person, who does not represent anything good about Islam, would get upset so easily.
When the world's reliance on your oil comes to an end, your society disappears into the sand in a heartbeat. Nothing props it up but oil. Certainly not the glory of Islam, because you don't represent the glory of Islam, you represent feeble cowardice, lack of confidence and frailty, masquerading as religious devotion. And you call that your faith? It's pretty sad that this Westerner has more knowledge of the DIGNITIY and NOBILITY of YOUR FAITH than you do, judging by the cowardly way you think your religion needs to be defended. Congratulations on making your religion a joke by your cowardice and lack of confidence.
The prophet was a man, you are frightened little children. You destroy your own religion.
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Isn't it strange that there are so many twitter-triggered law enforcement activites lately? Try searching "twitter arrested" in Google News.
http://www.ruqaiyyah.karoo.net/articles/apostasy.htm
Disclaimer: I'm a Muslim and I do not agree with the Journalist's arrest.
Unalienable rights are unalienable by religions.
That's ironic.
... We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights...
Unalienable by who? By other people? Clearly that's not the case. People world wide are alienated from their unalienable rights every day. By "their Creator"? That presumes some degree of religion. Unalienable by western philosophy? Unalienable by UN declaration? By current convention? What then?
(I accept "that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights". That's my rationale. What's yours?)
I won't join Slashcott. OTOH, If Beta goes live, I just won't be back until it's fixed. Sorry Dice.
Now talk to them about matters which intersect with their religion in any way whatsoever. Suddenly Science no longer applies, and we're back to irrationality.
Now do the same with an imam. It won't take long for a screaming match or open threats to surface.
There's plenty of imams who won't start screaming at you if you discuss science with them. On the other hand, you can find plenty of Christian pastors who will.
In other news, Saudi Authorities have now asked the website "Slashdot" to reveal the identity of all those commenting on a matter of religious sacrilege. Slashdot.org will be taken down and all those who commented, including Anonymous (the dangerous hacker group) Cowards will be put to death. If this doesn't help, a Fatwah will be issue against all those using computer terminals. May Allah's will be done! Amen.
No Greater Friend, No Greater Enemy! (Lucius Cornelius Sulla)
Not all. Unitarian Universalism has no dogma, does not ignore evidence and encourages independent thought.
We already have those pictures.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Haven't talked to too many Pentacostalists then?
Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
in invisible sky being who grant wishes are shit pure and simple.
KUALA LUMPUR, February 12, 2012 (AFP) - Malaysia on Sunday deported a young Saudi journalist whose Twitter comments about the Prophet Mohammed triggered calls for his execution in his home country, an official said.
Hamza Kashgari, who was detained in Malaysia during the week after fleeing Saudi Arabia, left the country in the custody of Saudi officials, according to a Malaysian government official who spoke to AFP on condition of anonymity.
72! You need to stop lying about the number of virgins ;)
Prove to the world that this "Science" of yours grants a greater evolutionary advantage to its adherents than these cruel religions do, and you will end the debate. Your opponents do not think of it in those words, but that is where the crux of it all lies.
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
Nonsense, Islam is traditionally very pro-science since it is considered a good thing to study the "creation". In fact, back when the Catholic church frowned at anyone questioning the Aristotelan world view, they were doing major research.
However, much like literal-Bible Jews and Christians, they do not like "humans and primates evolving from a common ancestor" science.
Sinhalese Buddhist nationalism was one of the driving forces in the Sri Lankan civil war.
Have you been in a coma the last 1400 years ? The only science that was ever pushed forward in the muslim world was in the early days when those countries' populations were 99% or more Christian or Jewish. After that, their results were burned and only the (very few) things that could be transmitted over boats and the like to, mostly fundamentalist, Christians survived.
It is rumoured some things survived in a few libraries in Baghdad and/or Constantinople. Rumoured.
Trying to punish people for saying things that you don't like is just fascist control being applied. Clearly in Saudi Arabia, religion is nothing but a synonym for fascism.
This only highlights the need for regime change in Saudi Arabia, and an abolition of the foul nonsense that they pass off as 'religion'. Once the 'sugar daddy' of all things terrorist, the United States, stops supporting the Saudi regime, expect an implosion. This will be followed by the former dictators & their families being ripped apart by an angry mob. I doubt any of us will be sorry to see the end of that bunch of savages.
As if Jesus was any better. "Let the children come unto me - so that I can cum into them". Bloody pedophile ring disguised as a church.
built on the foundation of a religion free state. just avert your eyes to the prisons full of journalists.
When you challenge their religion, they feel like you are trying to kill them. Its like their entire neural net is trained and balanced by religion. Take that away, and they feel like they want to die. They get desperately unhappy and violent.
Its a design defect in the human brain the unscrupulous people try to take advantage of.
Nonsense, there were Muslim astronomers experimenting with heliocentric models back in the 13th century, for instance. Much of what we have retained from the Greeks is stuff that was saved by Muslim scholars. We were introduced to the "arabic" numerals through Arabs translating the Indian mathematics and trading this knowledge to the "roman numerals"-using westerners.
Why this insistence on some revisionist "Christians are the sole caretakers of science" crap?
The views of the wizard appear to greatly depend on the viewpoint of the current human translator.
It is possible that Elijah, Jesus and Mohammed were all spoken to by the same force/being/deity, but what they took from it, and passed on to the rest of us, can and does, differ just a tetch...
Where you will be lynched for publicly saying that JC was just a bloke.
Heck, there are plenty of "mainstream" 'merkins who want Obama killed because he's a communist nazi ***muslim***.
The ones doing so tend to be the loudest xtians.
Values:
With such a diverse group of men and women, the organization's values play a particularly important role in maintaining a harmonious and effective working environment. The INTERPOL General Secretariat defines its values through the following qualities:
Respect for human rights
Integrity
Commitment to quality
Availability
Team spirit
Value for money
Accountability
Source: http://www.interpol.int/Recruitment
Action is taken within the limits of existing laws in different countries and in the spirit of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights
Source: http://www.interpol.int/About-INTERPOL/Overview
Adherents of any given religion generally want the freedom to practice *their* religion. Far fewer really care about freedom of religious choice for other people...
Travel may never be the safe again.
Organizations and nations could data mine social media and
issue warrants for a gazillion folk and as soon as you disembark
on foreign soil find yourself behind bars.
Like border towns in Mexico in the 60's they would then
turn you upside down and what ever money they could shake
loose was the bail and fine. Often it was the bail and fine for
one... who then had to find cash to spring his friends.
Female Facebook pix too much skin... arrest at the gate.
Male Facebook showing alcohol.. arrest at the gate.
Social media becomes antisocial ammunition.
Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. Mark Twain.
The standard of evidence is different for everyone. While to a Christian, the astronomical odds against everything in the universe happening in such a way as to form life and so on is proof of a god, obviously it isn't to you. In fact, if Jesus existed and came down from the sky right now to talk to you, you'd just justify it as a hallucination. If a hundred people somewhere on Earth saw the same thing all at once, you'd claim they were lying or having a mass hallucination. There is no evidence that will convince you.
By the way, I'm an atheist too. The bigotry I see from my fellow atheists is astounding.
Sure, the Abrahamic faiths have violence in their holy books, but not all religions are like this. There are religions that do NOT promote extremism. Meanwhile, *all* political beliefs can be used to justify murdering people. We even have people killing innocent people--children and families--in the name of "Democracy" and "Freedom." I'm sorry, but you just have some sort of hangup about religion. ANY ideology, political, philosophical, or otherwise promotes adhering to beliefs. Religious beliefs are *not* inherently barbaric. You must be a troll, as you embody the very stubborn pig-headedness you claim to oppose.
1) He wasn't fleeing to Malaysia, he was there in transit en route to New Zealand.
2) Interpol denies involvement.
Nuke 'em...it's the only way to be sure!!
This one gone beyond the sanity of any common man's freedom of expression. What is offensive in this tweet?
before you blaspheme Allah or the great prophet Muhammad. If Islam is not the only true religion then why did Allah put $trillions of dollars worth of oil under their blessed feet? Why did God lead the Jews for 40 years through the dessert to the only place in the middle east with bugger all oil?
journalist arrested there must be a problem?! .. security guards do not catch the action at first blame. us suppose that there are people who cover us in the secret Liput you will surely catch the reporter who does evil spreaders disastrous.
This kind of insultation should not be done anytime time whether he is journalist or officer or plots dealer
However all religion is by definition irrational - an act of faith in the supernatural. There is no evidence to support their beliefs. Instead there is plenty of dogma and ritual to rein in followers and rally them around those beliefs. It is no wonder that things get a little murdery when one group's preciously held delusions collide with another group's preciously held (and contradictory) delusions. People use the promise of an afterlife to justify murdering another human being. Neither group can claim to be right because in the absence of evidence none of them are. It would be hilarious if it weren't so pitiful and cruel.
While to a Christian, the astronomical odds against everything in the universe happening in such a way as to form life and so on is proof of a god, obviously it isn't to you.
No because that would not be evidence, it would be incredulity. "I cannot believe the universe happened in such a way as to form life except through god". It's a non explanation.
In fact, if Jesus existed and came down from the sky right now to talk to you, you'd just justify it as a hallucination. There is no evidence that will convince you.
That's a big if. And when it happens (a huge assumption) we'll be able to judge the event on the merits rather than your straw man assumption of what I might do.
Nonsense, there were Muslim astronomers experimenting with heliocentric models back in the 13th century
Not according to wikipedia :
Nicolaus Copernicus (German: Nikolaus Kopernikus; Italian: Nicolò Copernico; Polish: Mikoaj Kopernik; in his youth, Niclas Koppernigk;[1] 19 February 1473 – 24 May 1543) was a Renaissance astronomer and the first person to formulate a comprehensive heliocentric cosmology which displaced the Earth from the center of the universe.[2]
Unless "comprehensive" is the way to make this statement a technical lie, you're plain wrong.
BTW: my point is not that Christians were the sole caretakers of science, it's that they're the only caretakers that managed not to burn all their scientific knowledge and they also didn't get destroyed (btw : although not a certainty, it is extremely likely that all of the societies that did get destroyed burned their scientific knowledge first. A prime example of this would be the mayans : they possessed relatively advanced astronomic knowledge in their early period that was no longer present in their last period).
Another sidepoint is that muslims, and by that I mean all variants of muslim civilization, except the last one (let's called it "post-colonization islam" to illustrate that it's the one that uses the western (canonical) institutions that were created during colonization) destroyed all their scientific knowledge (and they're still at it). They did not just destroy it, they did so for this reason.
And here is a list of famous scientists of the middle ages, to illustrate how knowledge was really kept.
And while this is less true today due to the massive resources oil use has made available to the human race, making scientific research basically have insignificant budgets, these Catholic orders that did guard science during the dark ages invested huge amounts of their budgets into scientific research, copying books, and all sorts of necessary things ... I wouldn't be surprised if they invested 80% or more of their resources, that could have gone to luxury living, into science.
Today even the tiny science budgets we do allocate (sadly far less than 1% of govt. budgets) pay for a huge amount of research, thanks to oil allowing us to work and live at the scale that we do. But it's pretty obvious what would happen if we lost our abundant energy reserves, and no serious attention is put into it. Except of course, by the aforementioned orders who maintain huge paper libraries, and actually have a plan if funding dries up. Perhaps an illustration for how far this can go, how well it can work, see here.
[Dear Saudi Arabia:]
If you had no oil, your women would be going topless and your sons would listening to death metal.
I am not Saudi but circletimessquare's statement got me concerned.
As I have no oil, how do I prevent my women from going topless and my sons from listening to death metal?
(If worst comes to worst, I could consider compromising on the going topless part)
The prophet had people buried in sand in the desert to watch them die for criticizing him
In other words, Saddam Hussein and Muammar Gaddafi are so saintly in comparison to that pro-fart
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
I know Copernicus was the first to create a comprehensive model, that does not refute that others thought about it before him. In fact, Copernicus built on the works of Arab scholars:
As for your looters, blaming the religion for that is like blaming Christianity for sexual abuses in the Catholic church.