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Against Online Surveillance? You Must Be 'For' Child Porn, Says Legislator
An anonymous reader writes "Following up on yesterday's story about the Canadian government's internet surveillance legislation, one of the bill's proponents is now accusing those who oppose it of standing with child pornographers. Those against the legislation include: Law professor Michael Geist, Open Media, the Canadian Civil Liberties Association, the Council of Canadians and many others. 'Public Safety Minister Vic Toews told a Liberal MP he could either stand with the government or "with the child pornographers" prowling online.' Toews is enjoying his Parliamentary Privilege, which grants him the freedom to say pretty much anything he wants without fear of a slander suit."
Won't someone think of the children?!?!?!!?!
The stuff is so vanishingly rare it should never be used as a justification for anything as sweeping as a government power-grab like this one.
I'd much rather stand with a child pornagrapher than a tyrant.
You want the terrorists to win.
Gimme a break.
I hate the "You are in league with the enemy" garbage attack. Why is it a problem for these people when anybody believes in privacy, due process and civil liberties?
Alright, gimmie a second...
"Against warrantless entry of your home? You must be abusing a child!"
"Against public cameras tracking your every move? You must be planning to abduct a child!"
"Against drug prohibition? You must want to give drugs to children!"
"Against warrantless wire-tapping? You must be talking about internet surveillance legislation!"
Wait, that last one needs work.
In that case, fuck the children.
(+1, Disagree)
By that logic if im against mustard im for handgun violence?
No wonder, considering recent censorship on reddit, it seems you can push whatever agenda you want, by branding it anti-CP
Minister Toews should be fine, then, with his office's internet access being logged and stored.
Should be perfectly safe - after all, you only have something to fear if you're doing something wrong, or if the government's records leak.
Right?
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
Just think what heinous acts of child abuse could go on behind those curtains. Perhaps the honourable member would leave his curtains open at all times or stand with those who commit child rape behind them.
Sent to Ralph Goodale (my MP), Stephen Harper (PM of Canada), and Vic Toews (the jackboot who insultingly claims I support child pornography because I won't kiss his ass):
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
You guys need Parliamentary Privilege to actually have freedom of speech? I am disappoint. I realize you have your own Bill of Rights, but the mere existence of the HRC makes me sad too.
Looks like Canada is a lost cause now too. Any rocket scientists out there want to build a shuttle for those of us who like our rights? I think our chances of entering a wormhole and coming out in Narnia are better than the chance that government actually asks for permission from this point on.
Anyone who says something like that is probably diddling children in his spare time.
that he's having to hide behind Parliamentary Privilege?
Works both ways, does it not?
You're in favor of putting kids in ready access of tens of thousands of pedophiles since:
1) We know that predators seek places where their prey goes.
2) There have been thousands of cases in the last few years of public school teachers in the US going to jail for having sex with minors.
3) Whatever the cops can find is usually only the tip of the iceberg.
So clearly, since you support ripping kids out of the loving arms of their parents and putting them in public schools, you MUST be in favor of putting them at risk for actual molestation by a pedophile.
Whenever I see these peope constantly banging the drums of how we have to continually make worse laws about controlling the Internet, one thing comes to my mind:
Why do these government officials keep harping on it? Ministers like Ted Haggard attack gays constantly, and turn out to be gay themselves. Me thinks the government officials might be producing or consuming this material. Otherwise, why, might I ask, are you harping on it so much?
They lean pretty far left up there. Surely he must have had coffee with a communist or two. Stop him at customs and interrogate him the next time he enters the US.
(noted with sarcasm and reference to the HUAC. If you don't know what HUAC stands for, don't moderate).
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Seriously? Whenever I think of how much the U.S.A.'s going down the shitter, things like this and Canada's Human Rights Commission wake me up to the fact that there's really no emigration option that looks better than staying put. (Which in no way contradicts that we're heading down the shitter, just to be clear.)
If you disagree with me, you must be a dick. Oh wait, that's probably true.
+1 IDisagreeSoHeMustBeATrollOrAnAstroturferOrAShill
How people fail to see the double standard these politicians hold is beyond me.
In Capitalist US, the commerce controls the Government.
Torn between my deep love of child porn and my long-held belief that online surveillance is also pretty hot.
The proposed bill is like the Government of Canada forcing the phone companies to keep a record of every call that you make or receive, and insisting that Canada Post keep a register of every piece of mail that you send or receive. They'd still need a warrant to actually open your mail, but they don't need anyone's permission to build a profile of who you correspond with including who, how often, at what time of day etc...
The minister has gone on record to say that if you don't want the government to have a complete list of the letters you send through the mail, then you support child pornography. There is apparently no middle ground.
Now take the phone/mail analogy and replace it with everything that you do online - all the websites you visit, Facebook posts you make and emails you send. If you think that's a reasonable limit on your freedom then you should support the bill. If you don't want the government poking around your history file then you should let them know.
When you have nothing left to burn you must set yourself on fire
If he protests, its proof that he's a child pornographer.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
It's sad how politicians are so willing to embrace something foul they understand in order to combat something beautiful they don't. They all seem willing to place the Internet in a permanent state of McCarthyism, rather than admit that they do not understand it. It's the same fallacy again and again, those who value their privacy must have something to hide, it only benefits those that do not attach themselves to the Internet in any meaningful way.
Don't try to rationalize it. Call it out for what it is: a money grab. It's all about money.
They want you to keep focused on their justification (child safety) and their method (oppression of innocents). That's how they win: by keeping you focused on their carefully-prepared "syllabus". So forget all that. Instead, follow the money, and bring it to the forefront. The money is what this is all about, same as any expansion of government.
Power is merely a stepping stone to riches.
This approach is called "logical fallacy". I am not saying this to "make fun" of the creature that used that argument in public; he must know better if he is educated. Really, no point exists for us to comment on or argue with these statements to the extent that many here did. This man is using false logic and, therefore, it logically follows that we would ignore him. The only reason he makes news at all is because he finds himself elected; possibly by a public less educated than he is. This means he is taking advantage of his constituent's lacking education, which he probably had a hand in ensuring through lack of proper funds or initiatives to provide proper education. This demonstrates how politicians exploit people daily; if he genuinely does not know what he is doing then he is unfit for public life.
In the UK this only applies to things said within the house of commons. I have seen people challenge MPs to repeat such allegations on programmes like Question Time & Newsnight - basically "I fucking totally dare you". The usual response is "no comment" or similar obfuscation.
Does Canada's work the same way? Perhaps someone should ask Vic Toews to step outside.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
100 years after the invention of the psychoanalyze, and after his father Sigmund Freud proved that all, i repeat: ALL "unusual" behavior of the human beings is either actually "normal" or result of trauma, which in one or another sense caused the mental illness, hence the before mentioned people are not criminal but MENTALLY SICK, and still we are trying to treat the normal people with the same receipt as we are treating the sick people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FOR GOD SAKE, i am not sick, as are all of us, until proven the opposite, and till then i DON'T want to drink all the legal drugs intended for the sick people, or be imprisoned in these special clinics, or be castrated, simply because I AM NOT SICK. ACCEPT it you m%^#$^%$#%^$# f%^$&%^$^. If you still insist that both the sick and healthy people should eat trough a tube attached to the vein, then i would be SICK to accept it.
Did the Republicans invade Canada? I thought it was too cold for them up here!
I would argue it's better to expose a few children to sex way before they're ready for it, than it is to expose all of them to an invasive government that scrutinizes their every action "for the greater good".
Eh, I was once told by Pennsylvania Senator Arlen Specter that I was advocating for terrorists breaking military encryption because I was against the DMCA. I was trying to explain to a Town Hall meeting how the DMCA made it illegal for purchasers to exercise the right of fair use to copy a DVD because the content industry had merely put on an invisible wrapper of encryptionbasically they paid for a Bill to fleece us in the digital age. Specter went on a rant that I was talking about wanting to allow terrorists to be able to circumvent military encryption. I tried to correct him, but he was too dumb stupid to correct. (I'd give him the benefit of the doubt that he was really being hyper-intelligent and deftly torpedoing my argument, if his rant wasn't so completely devoid of factual basis and comprised mostly of ignorant run-ons--so I can't even do that.)
Priceless was the 80-something year old lady who approached me in the parking lot while I was sitting in my car waiting to exit. I thought she was going to hit me over the head with her purse, you know, for having the gall to speak so bluntly with a Senator/Elder Statesman. Instead she said that she had no idea what I was talking about, but that was clear the Senator didn't know anything either, and that he should have instead listened to me. She was angry with him for having voted for something he clearly didn't understand. So, even if I didn't get Specter to "get it", at least one of his voters did!
Scott
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
I do actually want a reworked internets that requires a unique honest 'token' for all users; not to surveil them, but to help services believe you are a real person and have something to do to the authorities with if you commit a crime using their service. The police know where your house is (or can find it easily enough) and yet, this doesn't mean they're looking in your windows all day every day watching everything you do. I want all sites, services, providers, and users of the internet to be ACCOUNTABLE and demonstrably not a bot or a virus or what have you. My job writing code trying to safeguard my organization's site against these contingencies would be a lot easier if not for 'privacy,' spoofed IPs, etc. /rant
He can always say, "Pro Terrorist" or maybe "Pro Kill-Women-and-Children-in-their-sleep-on-live-tv-while-wanking-and-eating-popcorn-with-the-same-hand".
Propaganda campaigns know no limits.
On a side note, we should never allow the fictitious issues to cloud the main issue: Liberty
Tomorrow someone else will declare that the system's in place to "protect" copyright work perfectly for their next "book burning" campaign because someone used the internet to find out the chemical composition of C4 and has also been known to purchase equipment that could be used in meth labs (cotton balls). Investigations reveals that the bloke has a half-pound of KaN in his locker what could have used along with other ingredients found in a hardware store to level a paper machet model of the new city landmark. And who cares because the profile fits and nobody else gives a damn about what happens to one more loser.
We should all stop exercising our liberty to do nothing.
Vic Toews is a complete and utter asshole. I'm a Canadian and I'm allowed to say that. It is isn't slander or libel, just the truth.
Similarly, the minister must either be in favor of child rape or in favor of the complete abolition of the Catholic Church, amirite?
If you aren't into child pornography, then you should have nothing to worry about.
I mean really, if the cops don't have enough evidence (which is next to nothing) to go to a judge & get a warrant, then the cops are trying to hide something...
Being an upstanding citizen and a person to lead by example, I look forward to Vic Toews releasing his web browsing history to the public.
“He can either stand with us, or with the child pornographers.” Canadian Public Safety Minister Vic Toews, February 13, 2012
"Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists." US President George W. Bush, September 20, 2001
As a Canadian living in the US, it is very sad to see Canada adopting the US model for copyright, censorship, and civilian spying.
I ask all Canadians to demand an inquest into Mr. Toews copyright infringement of the American President, and demand a full retraction of his statement for failing to acknowledge its original source.
A false dichotomy if ever there was one, from a two faced-politician.
I sent a letter in protest to my MP and got a similar canned response. it appears to be an answer from any conservatives in government. Here was my reply from Pierre Poilievre, my local MP.
-------------
Thank you for your message.
As you point out, these Bills did not pass in an earlier session of Parliament, and will need to be re-introduced. As such, I cannot comment on them until that time and the text is available.
That being said, our message is clear: if people use technology to commit crimes, such as distributing child pornography, the police will apprehend them and they will be punished to the full extent of the law.
Sincerely,
Pierre Poilievre, M.P. Nepean-Carleton
Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities
LP
-------------
It is a shame that we have high ranking Law professors OPENLY supporting child pornography. The only thing I can think of that comes close to this egregious violation of civil decorum is when Jewish Sympathizers were elected to the German Reichstag. I mean then you had Jew Lovers in the government, now you have Child lovers openly practicing law in Canada. We need to do something to round up these child predators before they corrupt our youth, just like they did in Germany. Keep them away from kids, and for god sakes, label them so we know to stay away. Right now the problem is that the systematic identification of child pornographers is mainly based on heresay. e.g. All catholic priests, are pedophiles. This is just not good enough, for a civil society. We need to come up with a board that will systematically categorize the population based on their likely hood of being a pedophile. White Mormans should come up on top of coarse, just under lawyers for the whatever child pedophilia organization these lawyers in the article were supporting.
The key word we touched on by the top commenter was "Legislator"
Legislator: n ~ person appointed by their "peers" to make ignorant and inflammatory statements with the aim of drawing attention to poorly reasoned and rarely fact based opinions.
I'm for BOTH child porn AND internet surveillance
I stand with child pornographers. When they came for the communists, I didn't speak out because I was not a communist. When they came for the trade unionists, I didn't speak out because I was not a trade unionist. When they came for the drug users, I didn't speak out because I wasn't a drug user. When they came for the terrorists, I didn't speak out because I wasn't a terrorist. When they came for the child pornographers, I didn't speak out because I wasn't a child pornographer. When they came for me, there was nobody left to speak out for me.
So yes, at some point we should all be speaking out, even if we don't belong with the group targeted at that point.
Learn to love Alaska
People don't understand or care about the implications of the surveillance. The only way to make them care is to raise awareness using an image that people know and understand.
That image is "Big Brother" from 1984. That's the message that has to be put across by the anti-surveillance campaigners. Move the argument from a rational one to an emotional one. The other side has already done this, the solution is to raise the stakes.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
TFA is trolling. Mod Toews down!
The Church is extremely rich. There will never be an investigation or prosecutions directed at the catholic cult. It doesn't matter now much people come forward telling of their abuse by those of the cloth, or how many cases there are against the pedophiles, the Pope will just have them moved to a new district.
how they define CP is so broad now a days that a Father video taping his own daughter Ballet dancing could be considered CP
I would think that unless it includes
1 full nudity
2 Intercourse (or related activities)
3 some other crime
4 is otherwise devoid of artistic/diagnostic merit
it should not be legally considered CP
and i would rather see a thousand "modeling" sites than have anything on the books that can be used to censor/track EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
Reasonable thought out arguments don't get as much airtime, those that do are generally not "simple" enough for the general populace to grasp, so it's easier to say "if you aren't this then you're this" and in the US our media excels at this type of reporting, dumb down and free of depth or rational thought.
A sample of headlines:
"POLL: Catholics turn on Obama..."
"MURDOCH HIT BY FEUD OVER SUN"
"Obama justice continues investigation...Witch hunt"
"OUTLAW COUNTRY: Naked Texas cowgirl, 18, arrested after police chase..."
*sigh*
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
only a sith deals in absolutes
Soon after this article, a few articles such as this showed up. And these describe perfectly the "for the children" pro-censorship mentality that I was talking about (anyone who disagrees must be a pedophile).
But this is for the children, so I must be a pedophile for disagreeing with him.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
If my only choices were between Vic Toews and child pornographers, I'd rather support the later as the lesser evil.
A pretty girl on the eve of her 18th birthday, I'm a pedophile. The next day, I'm an artist.
It seems that our Exporting of Complete Stupidity has worked! Glad to see your Canadians are using the supply of completely corrupt and stupid people we have been offering. Nice to see you guys using them in Government Positions like we have down here!
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
The last days of the human race.
No child has been born for 18 years.
Which is a good thing, because we can finally enjoy our internet freedom in peace.
If this legislation passes, does the Canadian govt ban TOR?
I am not a great fan of crypto nerds because I know just how idiotic the idea of a darknet is in a dictatorship. A darknet lights up light a christmas tree at your ISP if they can be bothered and in places in the world, they can be bothered. So what if it is encrypted? That never stopped the goons.
So... what do we need a free internet for? To AVOID getting that far. It would be nice if humanity always veered towards doing what was right for the greater good, if all journalists always could be counted on to ask the hard questions. That politicians don't look away because they think it helps their cause in the long term.
A free internet is a new tool to share information outside the main stream, it is as revolutionary as the printing press and the post office (For women's lib, the post office suddenly allowed them to communicate with anyone without needing permission) before. But the printing press was used to reproduce child porn and the post office was used to distribute it. Not so long ago (70's) child porn (and I am not talking David Hamilton style stuff) was produced fairly openly and sold. But this was done through tech that allowed Martin Luther to take the bible out of the church and into the domain of the common people AND to spread his anti-semitism that would on day lead to the holocaust.
Tech isn't good or bad but banning tech because there are not so nice uses for it, that is silly and dangerous. Silly because you can't put the cat back in the bag. People have tried it. The printing press, mechanical harvesters, cars. They all been attacked and are now a part of our lives. The internet allows anyone to communicate with anyone else at a near neg-liable cost. But this also means spammers and scammers can reach an audience in the past even Hollywood could not dream off. 911 from Nigeria might have negative overtones but it also means that people from what is not one of the most developed nations in the world can deal as equals with those developed nations. Ever tried calling Africa on the phone? Sent a wire? A letter? Sure, a percentage uses that connection for scams but how much information is being shared for the good of both sides as well?
And you can't have one without the other. Either you allow everyone to communicate or you don't. The makers of Freenet faced this, the simple fact is that the only real use for Freenet in the west at the moment is to share files that you can't share anywhere else and for a LOOOOOOONG time, that only was child porn. If you ever use Tor you can see just what it contains, hate (nazi wannabe's), a tiny bit of drugs for those who think the police has nothing better to do and under aged porn.
You can say you want to get rid of that part of Freenet but you can't. Either you have free communication or your don't. Child porn is even nastier then terrorism, I can say I am willing to take the risk of being blown up but I can't accept that risk on behalf of someone elses child.
Child porn is real and it is big, torrents are pretty clean and usenet can be realtively easy administred but as said, Tor and Freenet are full of it and so are other P2P programs. You can combat it easily, just restrict all traffic to non-encrypted, known content that is filtered and block any unknown traffic. Hiding data in data? Can't be done if the data is known, just make the Internet the Internet Microsoft and Apple dream off, all content pre-approved.
Do you think that is impossible? HA! IT IS ALREADY HERE. The movies you watch, the TV you watch, the music you listen to, the articles you read. ALL have been screened to make sure it is "safe" for you to consume. Hell, we don't even need the state for it, we do it ourselves right here on Slashdot all the time.
That is how tempting it is. If you are for a free internet, browse slashdot at -11.
It is tempting to want to get rid of child porn and you can do it, you just have to sacrifice everyones freedom and make it just a bit easier for a wannabe dictator to one day get away with it. But how do you def
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
While there is wide opposition to the bill in Canada, including every province's privacy commissioner, the federal government's privacy commissioner, and many people across party lines, with a majority in parliament the conservatives will ram this law through faster than Justice Minister Vic Toews (pronounced taze... like tazer) ramming a mistress. They have a track record of cutting off debate they don't like. Meanwhile, the government currently has the ability to get access to this information, as long as they first obtain a warrant from a judge.
This is the government that shut down the federal gun registry and eliminated the long form census based on privacy concerns. The hypocrisy is not surprising considering it is well known the publicly 'devout' Christian justice minister (and unofficial "Minister of Family Values") introducing the bill is divorced as a result of keeping a decades younger mistress with whom he fathered a child and at least one documented case of conflict of interest. Needless to say, the various privacy commissioners and opposition Members of Parliament are not amused at being classified as pedophiles (since they are against the government on this one), and several have stated this: ' "Apparently, if you care about civil liberties in this country you obviously side with child pornographers, murderers," she (Green party Leader Elizabeth May) said.'
So non-Canadians understand, in the Canadian system of government, the leader of a party has final say on who can run for the party in each riding (district in American vernacular). And he/she has the ability to kick elected members out of the party. If you aren't in a party the rules allow you almost no right to speak in the house in order to give your opinion, or ask questions of the government in question period. In other words, you have little ability to represent your riding. You must vote as you are told or be ostracized. And any party member who works with you will face the same penalty. This means that since the conservatives have a majority in the house and the senate, this law will be passed regardless on how Canadians feel about it. Personally I think the Canadian system is flawed and only avoided these kinds of issues by luck in the past. Now that parties are exploiting these democratic inadequacies, the whole thing is going downhill fast.
-- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
If you're not with us, you're against us.
Never say never. Ah!! I did it again!
I noticed over the years that in a number of cases in the US, the politicians
who were most publicly anti-gay, turned out to be gay themselves, but
because of other beliefs, felt so guilty about it they figured they could
deal with their own contradictions by pushing an anti-gay agenda in the
government. Each time the truth came out it was a mind blower.
Say Mr. Public Safety Minister Vic Toews, is there anything bothering your conscience? Can we have a complete browsing history on you since the Internet began? I hope you get a clean bill on all your browsing habits, so we can at least consider your outrageous comments on their merits.
The idea that sex between a minor and an adult is damaging to the minor is a relatively new concept. I don't know where or exactly when it started, but it's really annoying. Some stupid adults got a hangup about sex and projected that hangup onto children. If you treat sex as something pleasurable, then children will learn that it's pleasurable. They won't have negative ideas about sex and sex with adults unless they are taught that way.
So, while the logical fallacy is rather obvious, I will say anyway that I am not against CP or sex with minors.
(Rape is rape, no matter who it's with. Statuary rape is thought-crime.)
The guy looks like someone who'd be on a sex-offender registry. He's probably projecting his fetish for kiddie-diddling onto some phantom child pornographers out there 'in the cloud'.
that goes, " People will tolerate any loss of liberty as long as it is put as 'Good for the children.' "
Bill C-11...
Bill C-30...
TPP...
What the hell happened?
I want my Canada back!
If you're with the ones who say "If you're not with us, you're with the enemy", you're a *baddie*. If you're not, you're a *goodie*.
It would be a crying shame if all this attention Vic Toews got someone brought him up for a google search on child porn or in any way continuously linked him with child pornography. a real shame that. It would certainly have a negative affect on his political career.
Then again, I'm sure he'll gladly let the police in without a warrant to search his home, check his phone records, read his email and check his GPS history just to confirm he ISN'T trafficking in child porn.
Using that logic, would it also be true that if you are for panel vans then you are for pedophiles?
I don't know how freedom of speech works in Canada. If it has inherited any of the characteristics of British law, parliamentary privilege puts people like Toews in an interesting position. He can make whatever spurious claims he wants or launch ad hominem attacks against his opposition. But private citizens have to speak carefully or risk lawsuits.
At least in the USA, we can respond by pointing out that politicians in favor of online surveillance must be for Nazism. Fling mud and you get a facefull right back.
Have gnu, will travel.
They might as well just arrest everyone that opposes the bill as they obviously are in the child porn business themselves.
Did I say arrest? I meant, burnt at the cross! Made an example of!
Two teachers at Miramonte Elementary School here in Los Angeles were arrested on molestation/lewd acts charges. They closed the school for a couple days and when it re-opened they replaced every single teacher (temporarily).
Ceci n'est pas un sig.
It's a problem. Having mere association with something emotionally charged makes things targets. It doesn't matter how logical or true it is in itself.
Did you know that wanting to have sex with a 14-year-old is not pedophilia?
But Newt is very smart and shrewd.
Both are to be feared for nearly opposite reasons.
Naturally the common people don't want internet monitoring; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of... the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them children are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for harboring pedophiles and exposing the children to danger. It works the same in any country
Vic Toews said "You either stand with us or with the child pornographers. "
If you ask me to choose between politicians or child pornographers you might not like my answer.
None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
That is utter nonsense. There are no "inherent human rights." The only way you get "rights" is (a) someone has to define them, either specifically or in general, (b) someone has to have the power to defend them, (c) and then they actually have to be defended.
As long as people confuse the real situation with this "inherent" meme, they'll fail at actually solving the problem. For instance, in the USA, (c) above is where we fail. We've defined them specifically (those mentioned in the bill of rights and a few others), we've defined them generally (the 9th amendment), the government certainly has the power to defend them... but it rarely does -- in fact, it is much more likely to be the very party abusing them. This happens specifically because rights are not inherent -- they are simply grants supported by power. When power is focused on other issues, rights often mean nothing at all, other than you're proceeding under a set of incorrect assumptions.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
There so right, child porn is the only bad thing on the internet, hence why if you don't support online surveillance you must support child porn, there is nothing else that is inappropriate on the net.
Public Safety Minister Vic Toews, refering to The "Act to enact the Investigating and Preventing Criminal Electronic Communications Act and to amend the Criminal Code and other acts" Said: "He can either stand with us or with the child pornographers," "Lawful access will aid child porn investigations. I call on the NDP to stop making things easier for predators and support these measures." Adolf Hitler himself, referring to such tactics, wrote: “The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation. ” -Mein Kampf, Adolf Hitler, Publ. Houghton Miflin, 1943, Page 403 Mr. Toews, I see you have learned your lessons well.
Undetectable Steganography? Yep, there's an app fo
Yes, if they change the legislation from all citizens to identified Catholic priests I'm willing to stand behind it.
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
you either stand with us to protect freedoms or you stand the Nazi's!!!
Our very own (Texan obviously) Bush, championed this model of forcing everybody into 2 arbitrary camps, how is it that none of them realise what other absurd binary frames they can be on the wrong side of?
There has got to be a way to get the conservatives out of power. I wish I knew how.
You didn't seriously just try to say that if images of kids are devoid of artistic merit (meaning, in someone's opinion... eye of the beholder and all that), then those images are child porn, did you?
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
you were either with the child pornographers or with the government
Only a Sith deals in absolutes. I will do what I must.
Fear is the mind killer.
Same old tactics - your security is at risk and here is a solution. People don't think rationally when confronted with fear.
And private schools. And don't forget churches. If you're in favour of sending your kids to church, you clearly support the pedophile priests. You're either anti-church, or pro-pedophile. If it seems unfair to punish the entire concept of religion for the actions of a few child rapists, but that's only because you support child rapists, obviously.
And of course, more children are abused by their parents/family than by non-family-members, so children should be raised by non-family-members. It's only logical. Anyone who objects is obviously an child abuser or a sympathiser.
Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
The argument against child pornography is that it perpetuates crimes against victims. The same argument holds for other images and videos of crimes, especially if they are construed by certain viewers to be titillating or entertaining in some way. Why should a society tolerate one and not the other?
Please join me in working to help expand the ranges of crimes for which titillating and entertaining images and videos are illegal to include all crimes in which victims suffer.
There are PLENTY of other illegal activities we might want to do if there was no online surveillance!
.... politicians......
kiddies welcome.
Life takes interesting turns, but the most interest is when you're off the beaten path.
It is so refreshing to see that our US Imperialism has finally overcome the Canadian notion of independence. Sign this bill and the transformation will be complete. Join us in the new American hegemony! Soon we will conquer the remaining people to the south and our hold over this hemisphere will be final! Join us, O brethren from the great white north! Let us build the future together!!!
That is all.
I don't understand how people like this Minister think they are helping their case. I mean, in their heads, how does the logic work?
Power-grabber: I want to grab power.
Opponent: I don't trust you with that much power.
Power-grabber: That's because you are an Enemy. Only Enemies want to keep their rights.
Opponent: Oh, okay, now I totally trust you with that much power.
Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
They used a similar arguement when initially trying to bring in the national broadband filter.
They had to back peddle on using that association rather quickly as public outcry was high. Only people that were for the arguement where seen as extreamists and are normally ignored.
Won't somebody thing of the hunting accidents?
Just because you can't try somebody for perjury doesn't mean you don't have other options left :)
Politician could get an RCMP officer removed, but they can't get me fired from my job.
*I* want access to all political figureheads that are within public grasp to allow citizens to access their email and network activities at any time without a warrant
to ensure they're not corrupt and looking at child porn themselves. We could have exceptionally disgusting low political heads, and I'm sure we do.
What?! you're not okay with that? I will honestly only use it for watching for cporn and have you arrested. That's it, I promise no political agenda of any kind will come of this! No really, I won't watch for things you're doing that I don't like that aren't related to illegal activities so I can oppose your plans with perfect timing.
GTFO. Get a warrant. Warrants for that reason should be instant anyway.
I can't see a judge going 'You want a warrant for suspected child abuse? Let me think about it'
I want EVERYTHING cops do documented and approved. They have shown TIME and TIME again that they CANNOT be left up to their own devices. They have abused it, not all of them, but individual RCMP members. We cannot give the same people who may abuse it more power such as this. Next they check emails on ex's or spy on their kids, or harass the guy who flipped off the cop when passing by in a situation where the cop was a dick but couldn't issue a ticket.
No thanks.
If anything - make it speedier for police to have access to warrants in relation to such content with judges.
You see, I have NO WAY of finding out what you did today or last week.
Why? Not because you have the inherent right to privacy, but that it's not possible (or far too difficult to bother) to find out about your private life.
I have to do ACTUAL WORK to invade your privacy!
This is, by the way, the reason why "information wants to be free": you have to do work to keep it secret, except where it isn't being used as information.
So your rant was the actual real thing as far as utter nonsense is concerned.
PS that is why you were modded down. Because you're an asshole being wrong.
Whatever you do, DON'T try and plant child porn on Toews' computer or phone.
That would be an unethical way to sink this guy so PLEASE don't anybody do that!
and your claims to the contrary annoy those of us that do.
Let's just all give up our privacy so that your job is a little easier.
Quickly becoming a far naughtier version if the aristocrats for the cognitively impaired.
IF you agree with this asshole...
you stand with the idiots.
the leaders in false dichotomies.
As much I as I would like to brandish this quote in front of this dumb ass politician... It's most likely fake.
See: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Mein_Kampf
"Politician uses inflammatory rhetoric to vilify policy opposition!"
Film at 11
"Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
--- Jerry Garcia
'cos there really IS chainmail. Mail of chain. An easy, cheap and horrendously heavy lot of holes tied together with wire.
One word.
Chain mail is the version that denotes the chain letter (note that the space appears there too). Though it also means the same as chainmail.
Now, would YOU like to go and get a dictionary?
Those 2 quotes, along with pictures of Toewes and Hitler side by side should be emailed to every politician in Canada. This Conservative government has been trying its best to curtail all of our rights to privacy at every turn. Thankfully the system has mostly worked to prevent this so far, but then they had a minority government, now they have the majority. I think Harper honestly wants a police state, not an overt one, a subtle one that gives his party complete access to everything they need to remain in power. :(
I would sound like more of a loon for saying that, were it not for the evidence of the various legislative attempts they have made in the past few years to remove our rights, the police state tactics utilized in the G8/G20 conference, and the attitudes of the conservatives themselves.
Time to start referring to the "Harper Regime" I suspect
"The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
After all, we all know that only the Sith deal in absolutes. Why hasn't anbody else seen this?
We need more surveillance. I don't think our precious children will be safe until every little child has at least 5 cameras in their bedroom watching them at all times. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbins_v._Lower_Merion_School_District
oh wait, reality called: "more security" is not same thing as "more secure". Your crotch-fruit is not a pretext to trample my privacy rights.
... some (I guess less than 10) sporadicaly contained child porn. It saved them several terrabytes of traffic per day. This move started golden age for all kinds of paid internet porn sites. And most of porn is made by Hollywood.
Legislator uses hyperbole to make his point.
Immediately, 300 posts on Slashdot about McCarthyism, the destruction of civil liberties, dogs and cats living together, etc.
People here are so lame and predictable.
Nice add, too, about parliamentary privilege, which is utterly irrelevant.
This summary reads like it was written by a 14-year-old who went to an ACLU rally and came away foaming at the mouth, pumping his fist in the air, eager to find an evil politician.
Advice: on VPS providers
NT
Nice quote, but fake? http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Mein_Kampf
Only a Sith deals in absolutes
...that they somehow reserved the right to secede
I would love to see how how that worked out for them. If they want to succeed, I say we should just let them. Within a decade, I suspect that they would be asking for re-admission to the union.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
That kind of divisive language is a typical bullying tactic that these repressive cuntservative types use. They try to paint everyone into a corner.
Drawing lines in the sand, and "You're either with us or against us!" like those bible thumping American politicians do.
We need to get rid of "The Harper Government of Canada" (Ominous in itself that they expect everyone to call them that). Canadians made a big mistake in the last election.
What other crime would give them an excuse to invade people's privacy to the extent the CP has? Terrorism or drugs may come close, but nothing allows them to shit on the constitution as much as CP does. I think it's a bit disingenuous for the group that is benefiting the most from the existence of CP to accuse others of being "for" it.
“The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation. ” -Mein Kampf, Adolf Hitler, Publ. Houghton Miflin, 1943, Page 403
Best quote anyone has posted in response to anything along these lines on Slashdot yet...
AC, because my post right now is a useless post...
Trust me, it's based in reality.
We might have some crazy right-wing politicians in Alberta compared to the rest of Canada but, as a European who moved to Alberta from the US, they are not a patch on the crazy, right wing US politicians. For example they all support (admittedly in some cases grudgingly) free health care at a level that puts them somewhere slightly to the left of the US democrats.
What else is there to say? He and Harper are being in the Big Brother Fascist State. It's time to say NO to their kind of evil State Totalitarianism.
Canada is now governed by a bunch of fascists. Stay away from Canada. You have been warned.
As much I as I would like to brandish this quote in front of this dumb ass politician... It's most likely fake.
See: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Mein_Kampf
The talk page you directed to appears to indicate that the problem is that someone originally misquoted it as "the children" and then people couldn't find the quote when searching via computer. The last comment says the quote actually is in the book, referring to it as "the child", which is the version GP used.
The data that all provides must collect will be available through online means at all time. IE police will be able to browse it easily.
If a predator can get to that information they will have a gold mine. A record of all activity done by a childs phone or computer.
So they are not making kids safer they are opening one giant hole.
If I have to choose between "standing with child pornographers" and "standing with the government" then paint me fucking pedo!
Talk about a leap to a conclusion! Yikes! I hate politicians of all types and breeds. They are basically life forms lower than algae.
Only a Sith deals in absolutes!
I am government man, come from the government. The government has sent me. -- G.I.R.
is the real man who stand for child porn's money
Don't buy into his false equivalency. That is insane and stupid. It gives credence to his false argument. .
Don't get all squeamish. You're missing the point.
We haven't all lost our senses. We all find child pornography disgusting. Nobody is condoning it.
But by saying they 'Stand with the Child Pornographers', they are saying that they are 'NOT Standing with the Canadian Federal Government'
As disgusting and repugnant as standing with child pornographers is, on this issue, it is MORE REPUGNANT to stand with the Canadian Federal Government.
In other words, sane, responsible Canadians, in great numbers, in blogs and newspapers everywhere are saying that the "Canadian Government is even lower than Child Pornographer Scum."
And while were at it, note that Pedophiles actually sexually molest children one on one. Child Pornographers only take pictures of naked kids. This law stop neither the Molester or the Taker of Pictures. It does not stop the actual abusers of children. What this law does is merely try to stop bits from whirring around the intertubes. With all the kindness and caring of Revenue Canada, the implementation efficiency of the Gun Registry, the Customer Support of Motor Vehicles Registration and the Frugality of the F35 program.
Don't take your eye off the ball. Pedophiles are the big evil, and all of this does nothing to find them or to stop them. The Really Big Big Evil is Harper trying to turn Canada into a Police state. Harper cannot demonstrate a legitimate need for these powers. He resorts to these petty antics and political hocus pocus to advance his agenda. His motives must be questioned here. We'll see what our opposition parties and our Canadian Media do. And the courts. Our voices are suppressed, but our eyes are ever so open.
When people say they stand with the pedophiles they are saying 'Harper is a worse than a pedophile'. Canadian Humor. You gotta be quick.
Like when they call it 'The Harper Government'. They are not calling it ' The Canadian Government'. Different Legal Names. Different Legal Entities. The first is the label for an illegitimate regime of a usurper. The latter is a lawful government. More Canadian Humor. 'Harper Government' is a slur. Like 'Nazi Germany' as opposed to 'Regular Germany'. Two very different things. I guess we should be putting subtitles more often on some of this for our friends outside Canada.
So don't let your abhorrence, righteous indignation and knee jerk reactions to media code words close your eyes to what is really going on and what is really being said.
I could not care less about child pornography or terrorism. I am opposed to both, but so what I bet it's hard to find people publicly claiming to suppoprt either. Both are sufficiently rare that NO significant incinvenience, LET ALONE INFRINGEMENT OF LIBERTY, is justified in either case.
Vic Toews thinks other people are interested in child pornography, but that sounds like something a child pornographer would say. Some say that Toews is a modern-day Lewis Carroll, secretly bugging restrooms in schools for awful footage. I think someone even accused him of just this sort of thing, but he has never come out and denied it. Why won't Vic Toews come forward and deny these awful rumors? It really makes you think that there's something going on there. I believe he is doing something awful to Canadian children.
Please look up Ad Hominum Also...please look past it in this instance.
I used to work with a Texan a million years ago. Didn't matter what the topic of discussion was; 'In Texas...' was his constant contribution. Until one day, a fellow co-worker turned on him: "If things are so goddamn great in Texas, why are you here?"
Politicians with excessive fear of child predators are think they can escape the bad karma that is due to them for all their womanizing. As horrible as it sounds, the vast majority of women I know who have been sexually assaulted have had a father who treats women with little respect.
Public Safety Minister Vic Toews looks like one of Stan X's clones.
no actually i'd love to see my pm prison rapped
Politics is the only profession where you can make money by cheating people (poll promises) and yet you'll not be prosecuted/punished.
Go and start your own political party.
Casteism
I say someone in Canadian Parliament tacks on an amendment to the bill that Toews has to have a camera installed in his bedroom. If he refuses, they just claim it is proof he is committing child pr0n in his home.
About a year before that happens they are going to start the fear machine getting everyone worried about their jobs, and how the conservatives are the only people that can save the economy. When I talked to everyone who voted conservative last election, they all said that was why. If they had done their research, they would have realized most of the regulation that kept canada (mostly) safe from the economic downturn was due to things that were set up well before Harper had anything to do with it. In many cases he even fought against those regulations.
Like it or not, but there is a LOT of illegal content being moved around on the internet and something should be done to stop it. Okay, a lot of you don't like the idea of "Against Online Surveillance", that's fine ... but bring an alternative that stands a chance to do "something" about all the illegal activities.
You can not expect Politicians to implement something "good" if the IT industry never helps with defining what is "good" and "acceptable".
Bring your own ideas, can you do better?