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Damaged US Passport Chip Strands Travelers
caseih writes "Damaging the embedded chip in your passport is now grounds for denying you the ability to travel in at least one airport in the U.S. Though the airport can slide the passport through the little number reader as easily as they can wave it in front of an RFID reader, they chose to deny a young child access to the flight, in essence denying the whole family. The child had accidentally sat on his passport, creasing the cover, and the passport appeared worn. The claim has been made that breaking the chip in the passport shows that you disrespect the privilege of owning a passport, and that the airport was justified in denying this child from using the passport."
TFA states that it was an airline official who refused to allow the passenger to board, not an agent of the government. It's still galling, but let's express our discontent where it belongs.
"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." -- George Orwell
“This is done for national security, for whatever reason they can’t make an exception, period,”
They flew from Denver to Dallas without a problem, then were stopped in Dallas. If they can't make an exception, why were they allowed to get on the first plane?
Is 1563649 a prime number?
Paper
Can survive being crushed, sat on, folded, spun, submerged in water, thrown up on, run over by a car, heated to several hundred degrees, frozen to near absolute zero, exposed to intense radiation, and the data stored on paper can be read with no special tools under a wide variety of environmental conditions, or using simple tools like a 'lens', can be read at distances of up to several hundred feet or more.
RFID
Can be used with a scanner that has a range of only a few inches. If any part of the chip is damaged, the data is irretrievable. Costs more than paper. Can be destroyed in everyday use, including sitting on it, folding it, getting it wet, etc.
Which one would you pick for storing sensitive information which, if made inaccessible, has the potential to prevent you from ever seeing your loved ones, your home, or any of your possessions again?
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
I was traveling alone, but I've gotten similar crap from a AA rep with a bur up his butt or something. This was pre-chip passport, but my well traveled 9 1/2 year old passport was slightly bowed from being placed in my pocket. He said basically the same thing as the article, that it shows a disrespect for the document and that I should keep it in a necklace type holder or somewhere else other than my back pocket. This same passport was never questioned by a government official in any country I traveled too. I waited for the douche to go on break and then proceeded to check in without incident by another agent. He would probably be one to charge folks an excessive baggage fee if one of their bags was 1 oz over regulation as well.
The travel guy they interview has one thing right and one thing wrong...
Not all passports have RFID chips in them. That didn't start until 2006. Mine has no such chip in it. No problems at all with it. Even without the RFID chip, the passport is machine readable (that's the barcode on the picture page). It won't be until 2016 that all US passports--that is, when the old ones all expire, finally--will be biometric/RFID. So I don't see why they should refuse someone who's RFID chip doesn't work, given that other people will be allowed on without one too.
But he is right that the passport is property of the US government. It says that in the document somewhere.
A colleague of mine had major problems with Delta and his visa. He was going to China, and had a return flight 60 days after he left. His visa was only good to stay 30 days. They refused to let him on the plane. Of course, he had planned to go to Hong Kong after 28 days, stay for 3, and then return to mainland China (possible with his multiple entry visa), all of which is fully legal. Delta didn't care and made him change his flight (and pay to do so). He then had to pay a second time to change it back once he got to China. His CC refunded the fees, but it was still unnecessary hassle.
The major issue: airlines are NOT immigrations officials! They do have some responsibility, of course. They don't want people getting on planes without passports, only to have them sent back home immediately. Still, on judgment calls like validity of visa and travel plans, they should not have final say in the matter. That's not their job. They don't always get it right.
The family may have made a mistake not immediately calling for a customs agent to get involved. The airline could easily take them downstairs, where there's dozens of immigrations officers, any of whom could make the judgment. There's also probably a supervisor there who gets final say. Why were those people not called in to decide the validity of the passport?
I know this will go unheeded because it's what people don't want to hear, but the US Government had nothing to do with this case.
The child was denied clearance by an airline employee, not an actual customs agent. And the person who claims that a damaged passport is "disrespect" to the privilege of holding a passport is some whackjob I've never heard of who owns a small business that specializes in... wait for it... passports and visas! The online ratings for this guy's business classify him as a Grade A jackass, as well.
This is an overblown, almost-manufactured attempt at criticizing the government for its national security policies. It's really much more akin to blaming the local beef farmer because my steak was overcooked.
You need to read the MRZ (machine-readable section of the page with the photo) of the passport as the key to unlock the encryption of the chip. You can't get that with it closed (unless you already know the owner's name, birth date, passport number, etc.).
From TFS: The claim has been made that breaking the chip in the passport shows that you disrespect the privilege of owning a passport, and that the airport was justified in denying this child from using the passport.
"The claim has been made", eh? Citation needed. Who made this claim? I RTFA and that line does not appear. I watched the video linked in TFA and that line was not spoken.
If this is really a statement from someone in the US Government, then who said it, and when?
My blood began to boil at the thought of someone in government saying such a thing. If this quote is true, this person is saying a passport is more precious than the flag of the USA, because there are at least some circumstances where it is legal to destroy a flag. But the whole passive voice thing and the total lack of attribution makes me wonder if this isn't just a made-up quote.
If it's for real, give us a real cite. Let's get a tidal wave of negative publicity pointed at the person who said this.
If it's not for real, let's not get all excited over nothing.
P.S. TFA quoted some guy as saying that the government has "no reason in the world" to let you fly if the passport has a damaged chip. He likened it to a passport with the photo cut out. But I don't really know exactly who this guy is or why we should give his opinion any weight. I don't know what the actual government policy is on a passport that is clearly readable, with numbers and barcodes and such all intact but a damaged chip; it's hard to imagine that this is the actual official government policy. And if it is, I'd like a citation of that, please.
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
I can also hear people say it is only giving you problems when you travel.
Is prison not mostly a limit to your ability to travel?
The claim has been made that breaking the chip in the passport shows that you disrespect the privilege of owning a passport, and that the airport was justified in denying this child from using the passport.
Well, that's a stupid fucking claim. Saying that one should respect an easily (relatively) replaceable inanimate object or lose a fundamental right is just the most pants-on-head stupid thing I've ever heard.
It's the kind of thing someone too stupid to understand abstract ideas views the world: "Oh, they want to burn the flag, that means they hate America" while being all the while unaware that prohibiting the exercise of free speech like flag burning is anathema to the founding principles of the US.
It's also stupid on its face - what possible benefit is gained from RFID other than convenience for immigration officials, and in what universe does that minor convenience outweigh the rights of citizens to travel or not?
Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
If the government had not have created this police state, then airlines wouldn't give a damn.
This is my sig.
The law disagrees completely - http://law.justia.com/cfr/title22/22-1.0.1.6.33.5.5.1.html. Note there are grounds for denying a passport, but there are also grounds for puttting you in prison - that doesn't mean not being in prison is a priviledge.
Or if you prefer statements made to the public of how the government interpretes the law:
- http://travel.state.gov/passport/ppi/family/family_864.html
Heck it uses the word "entitled"!
quoted from http://travel.state.gov/passport/passport_2788.html#One
What will happen if my Electronic Passport fails at a port-of-entry?
The chip in the passport is just one of the many security features of the new passport. If the chip fails, the passport remains a valid travel document until its expiration date. You will continue to be processed by the port-of-entry officer as if you had a passport without a chip.
Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about.
1st world: United States and allies during the cold war.
2nd world: Soviet Union, China, and allies during the cold war.
3rd world: Any nation not listed in the above two categories.
Look it up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3rd_world
just an analog boy living in a digital age.
I think its a cultural thing. Some cultures get in more of a knot over the sanctity of the tokens than what they represent. Religious texts, flags, UK football colours, to name but a few.
My $100 RFID reader can read my passport at a distance of about 4"
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
The claim has been made that breaking the chip in the passport shows that you disrespect the privilege of owning a passport, and that the airport was justified in denying this child from using the passport.
The last time I left the US I spent four weeks hiking around in the Dolomites and nearby. Everything I had was in my backpack, I stayed at night in mountain rifugios and hiked around most of every day. I had my passport on my person somewhere at every moment, because what else was I going to do with it? I fell a couple of times, nothing serious, but I did get a few scrapes and bruises, and I'll admit that I was a bit free in tossing my pack (which contained my passport) around.
Now, if the RFID chip can be broken by a child sitting on it, there is an approximately 0% chance that mine would have survived that trip had I had the misfortune of having one in my passport. There would have been no way to avoid it, other than putting the passport in a box filled with bubble wrap and packing peanuts or something else equally absurd. Had I been staying in a hotel and wandering around a town I would have (as per Italian law) left it with the hotel. But this wasn't that sort of trip. There was no way, sort of building some sort of portable armored and padded shrine, that I would have been able to "respect" the passport enough to avoid wrecking the RFID chip, if it really is so easy to break.
If the chip is that much less resilient than the paper that the passports are printed on, they need to come up with something better.
Little Kye’s passport has a crease on the back cover, which Gosnell says came from him accidentally sitting on the passport. His passport was questioned, but not denied. It was Kyle Gosnell’s that was the real problem. It has a small crease on the back cover, and is overall weathered and worn.
The child's passport was NOT denied, it was Kyle (presumably the father) who had the "overall weathered and worn" passport that was denied. It's hard to believe that his passport was so weathered and worn that it couldn't be read so this is probably still an issue of an airline employee with a stick up his ass but TFS is completely wrong and trolling everyone who comments on here enraged. TFA doesn't even say that the RFID chip had ANYTHING to do with his being denied. Parent is absolutely right that the person who is quoted has NOTHING to do with this situation. The local Fox team reporting on this probably Googled someone in the Denver area (not the Dallas area where this whole f'ing thing actually happened) and asked this nutjob for a quote for their story.
PLEASE RTFA before commenting. Slashdot editors, PLEASE edit these retarded submissions before they get our collective panties in a wad.
Nope. It's a right that can be taken away in various circumstances, not a privilege that is granted at discretion. There is a difference.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
...if you're going for a car analogy.
http://travel.state.gov/passport/faq/faq_1741.html
Q:My passport has been damaged. Can I continue to use this passport?
a:If your passport has been significantly damaged, especially the book cover or the page displaying your personal data and photo, you will need to apply for a new passport. You will need to submit the following in person (See Where to Apply):
The damaged passport
Form DS-11
All documents required by Form DS-11, including citizenship documentation (i.e. birth certificate)
Water damage, a significant tear, unofficial markings on the data page, missing visa pages (torn out), a hole punch and other injuries may constitute "damage" requiring use of Form DS-11.
Normal wear of a U.S. passport is understandable and likely does not constitute "damage". For instance, the expected bend of a passport after being carried in your back pocket or fanning of the visa pages after extensive opening and closing. In most cases of normal wear, you may renew your passport by mail using Form DS-82.
Please remember, if you try to renew a significantly damaged passport using Form DS-82, you may be asked by the Passport Agency to apply again using Form DS-11 and incur additional fees./
I R'd TFA.
Apply little reading comprehension: It was Kyle, the FATHER, whose passport was denied. NOT the kid's.
OP:
"... they chose to deny a young child access to the flight, in essence denying the whole family."
FTA:
"Little Kye’s passport has a crease on the back cover, which Gosnell says came from him accidentally sitting on the passport. His passport was questioned, but not denied. It was Kyle Gosnell’s that was the real problem. It has a small crease on the back cover, and is overall weathered and worn."
If we're going to infer things then let's infer that the dad's passport was old-school and didn't even have an RFID tag in it since it was described as "[having a] small crease on the back cover, and is overall weathered and worn.
WTFF, Slashdot?
If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
A damaged passport is unusable, period.
A passport not capable of being used is unusable. FTFY
Damage without define what "damage" you are talking about, and doesn't infer usability.
Is a small water stain on the cover damage? How about a dirty/dusty passport? What about a crease?
I8-D
Clearly, you have no idea that the world and its use of language has changed since the Cold War.
Hyperbole is fun, isn't it?
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
Ever worked security at a bar or nightclub? Lots of Americans use their passports as their primary form of identification. Why, I could not tell you. Often there are no visa stamps visible in the passports; they just carry the passport instead of a state-issued ID. And I'd say about half the time, these passports are beat all to shit. Seriously, they look like old leather belts. I can't imagine that the RFID chip would work. From my experience, most Americans have absolutely no concept of this idea that you should "respect the document" of a passport. They don't treat them any better than they do their phone or their keys.
Breakfast served all day!
Politicians are rational : they don't adopt policies to entice voters unless there are such voters to be enticed. Socialists/Progressives have managed almost all signfiicant institutions in US and European societies for 50+ years. This despite the fact that the socialist parties in the US in the 1920s never got more than 5% of the national vote and never had more than 20 people in Congress. It was a consistent 5% of the vote, and so the other 2 parties adopted policies designed to capture that margin of victory. The consequence was a rapid shift of all politicians into the socialist end of the spectrum. If Libertarians have a consistent 5% of the vote, something that is beginning to be true, we will see an equally rapid shift of both parties to the Lib end of the spectrum.
ohhh.. you threw it on the GROUND!!! mannnnn
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
From http://law.justia.com/cfr/title22/22-1.0.1.6.33.html#22:1.0.1.6.33.1.3.1
22 C.F.R. PART 51—PASSPORTS
Title 22 - Foreign Relations
PART 51—PASSPORTS
51.6 Damaged, mutilated or altered passport.
Any passport which has been materially changed in physical appearance or composition, or contains a damaged, defective or otherwise nonfunctioning electronic chip, or which includes unauthorized changes, obliterations, entries or photographs, or has observable wear and tear that renders it unfit for further use as a travel document may be invalidated. [ Note that this says MAY, and more to the point does not say IS... so a revocation judgement has to be made by.... ]
51.4 Validity of passports. ... ONLY IF, in the judgement of the State Dept, the mutilation warrants revocation ]
(h) Invalidity. A United States passport is invalid whenever:
(1) The passport has been formally revoked by the Department; or [
(2) The Department has registered a passport reported either in writing or by telephone to the Department of State, or in writing to a U.S. passport agency or to a diplomatic or consular post abroad as lost or stolen.
(3) The Department has sent a written notice to the bearer at the bearer's last known address that the passport has been invalidated because the Department has not received the applicable fees.
Improper visas or clearly wrong authorizations is one thing, but the intrinsic validity of a properly issued passport to its proper owner is clearly not a decision delegated to airline staff. That judgement is for immigrations or passport officials to make, not some Jetway jockeys who've mistaken themselves for State Department employees. Seems to me that a lawsuit for injunctive relief is perfectly appropriate -- specifically to prevent AA or other airline staff from making legal declarations about the invalidity of a passport. And it's not like this would be burdensome, either: If Jetway Jane sees that you don't posses a passport or a visa for a destination that requires one, you've violated the terms on your ticket, and will be denied boarding because it's a ticketing issue. But If Jetway Joe thinks your passport might be invalid, he should call the resident officials at the airport to make a determination -- not try to impersonate them.
I think not...(*poof*)
"but perfectly visible and functional regular license plates"
Seems like a non-issue to me. The FAQ you quote seems to agree by virtue of not mentioning the RFID in the list of things that constitute 'damage', or mentioning a requirement that the RFID chip work in the section on RFID. Seems like they mostly care about the printed components of the book.
The enemies of Democracy are
My current passport does not have a chip in it and is good for another year. It is also pretty damn beat up. It has stickers on the outside that French immigration has put on it. It has been bent and tweaked by a variety of national border control types, and no one has ever applied a visa stamp gently. It has also spent a lot of time in my pocket, because nothing says "Tourist here please rob me" like one of those dorky things hanging around your neck. As a result of being in my pocket, it has gotten sat on, sweated on, bent, etc. In short, it looks like the passport of someone who travels a lot, which I guess they don't see a lot at American Airlines in Dallas. I respect my passport enough that I don't leave it in hotel safes, don't hang it around my neck to get snatched, and generally try to keep it from getting stolen, which has resulted in it looking weathered and worn. The airline employee in Dallas is a tool.
And get off my lawn.
Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
Was it our good friends, the TSA, or is this a private venture? I ask because there was an article, a while back, which mentioned that airports could provide their own security forces if they chose to; moreover, this article does not mention who, exactly, denied him an exit.
I am John Hurt.
If your RFID fails you do not have to get your passport re-issued. It is a valid document. Period.
ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI
The federal government requiring Catholics to pay for other people's contraception.
This is not true. The federal government is requiring ALL employers to offer health insurance or pay a fine, and all health insurance offered must pay for contraception.
The federal government is not, however, requiring anyone to be an employer.
paintball
if you factor in the damage that would have been caused by not yelling fire then end results are different:
Example A(no fire):
Danger caused by yelling Fire: x
Danger caused by not yelling fire: 0
Net damage: x
Example B:
Danger caused by yelling Fire: x
Danger caused by not yelling fire: y
Net damage: x-y
as x and y are both generally assumed to be positive values x > (x-y) therefore there is more net damage from yelling fire when there is no fire.
i spent five minutes thinking and all i got was this crappy sig