New iPad Jailbroken Already

An anonymous reader writes "Just hours after the new Apple iPad was released, it was jailbroken in three (how appropriate!) separate ways. This means that hackers have already found and exploited security holes to run custom code on the new iPad with iOS 5.1. The tools for jailbreaking your new iPad aren't yet available, but this first step means the software will be developed sooner rather than later."

Comments

I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to admit it, I got caught up in the hype and I bought an tablet. The novelty wore off after a couple of days. Since then, it has sat on my desk, almost completely unused. In fact, it's one of the worst purchases I've ever made.

Tablets in general are rather pointless devices. They're far bulkier than my smart phone, so they're not very good on the go. They're much less comfortable to use than my netbook or my laptop, especially when I have to do a lot of typing. They're so vastly underpowered relative to even an old desktop that they're not usable for anything computationally intensive. My Kindle is a much better e-book reader.

I learned the hard way that the usefulness of tablets is purely a marketing creation. They look like they have potential, but in practice they're just the combination of the worst of every other type of computer or computing device.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[koan]

Tablets are media consumption platforms for people that don't really use their computers for serious task, oh I know someone will post how they hacked the Gibson using their iPad and a bluetooth keyboard, but for the most part it's a consumer toy for consuming consumer baubles.

Moooooooooooooooooo

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[thesePretzels]

I mostly agree, but they have some really great uses. As a grad student, I am able to mark up pdf's with a cheapo stylus and save them to my dropbox account. Never lose another one of my papers I spent hours reading and highlighting. But other than that, they aren't that great. Watching netflifx in bed or on the couch is nice, but you have to prop it up somehow. Netbooks are better for that. The always on feature is nice, good to keep in the kitchen for recipes, and reading/marking PDFs (if you're into that). Otherwise, $500 towards a decent portable laptop is a much wiser decision.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[shmeeps]

I was lucky enough to grab an HP Touchpad during the fire sale for only $99. I'll be honest in that for the first few months I owned it I rarely used it. The only reason I use it regularly now is that my laptop won't even boot anymore and I don't have the money to replace it.

As a grad student, it works alright for basic note taking, e-books, browsing the web and the like, and I really like the fact that it is so portable given the battery life and miniscule weight. If you grab a bluetooth mouse and keyboard, you actually can get a pretty nice set-up going for basic functionality. However, I've noticed that my productivity for anything more in depth than what's described above has completely tanked. Sure, you can edit documents and store them in Dropbox for later, but you still have to go back and edit them on an actual computer to apply advanced styles or fix anything the tablet corrupted. You can't view applications side by side and must continually switch between them. Furthermore, some apps are just non-existent. I'd love to see some apps that could actually compile code. The only one I've seen do this successfully is AIDE for Android, which is catered towards actual Android development. I have yet to see just a basic C/Java/Python compiler for command line style programs, but the fact is the tablet is just not designed for that kind of work.

While I get a lot of use from my tablet now, basically because I have no other choice for this semester, I will be buying a laptop to do my main work. I'll keep the tablet as an e-reader.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[jjohnson]

the usefulness of tablets is purely a marketing creation

Riiiiiiiight. Because "useful to me" is synonymous with "useful to anyone". You're the ur-consumer. Everyone actually enjoying and consistently using their tablets is doing it wrong.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[JimCanuck]

I bought a Archos 9, Win7, which came out pre-iPad, while its much more useful then the iPad and Playbook in my opinion after I playing around with all 3.

But I have to completely agree, for me, its not a Palm Pilot (which my smartphone nearly replaces, I do miss graffiti though), nor is it a "real" computer such as a laptop or desktop to use for more useful items.

The iPod Touch makes more sense then the iPad and many other tablets, atleast you can carry it around in your pocket. Otherwise I find I take the Thinkpad anywhere I go over the Archos. If I do get another tablet like device, it will be a convertible laptop which the performance spec's so I may use it for more then playing around on the internet and with some small silly software.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[TheRaven64]

I'd love to see some apps that could actually compile code.

So, uh, install some? I copied the PDK headers and libs to mine and cross-compiled LLVM for it. Works fine.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[ColdWetDog]

the usefulness of tablets is purely a marketing creation

Riiiiiiiight. Because "useful to me" is synonymous with "useful to anyone". You're the ur-consumer. Everyone actually enjoying and consistently using their tablets is doing it wrong.

Actually, if you look at Slashdot's history for getting the next big thing in tech completely wrong (rather lame, actually), all you have to do is find the next device that Slashdot Groupthink really hates and bet long on it.

Profit!

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Anonymous Coward]

Absolutely my experience. Decent for media consumption, too difficult to do any serious content creation on it. Even just posting this short paragraph (yes, I'm using an iPad to post this) is awkward. I decided that I wanted to reorder the words in my second sentence, which would have been trivial with a real keyboard, but it was a real pain on an iPad. Just selecting the desired words and cutting was slow and imprecise. I don't think I could ever write anything substantial - and certainly not software. Even the idea of using an IDE to write Java/C#/C++ on something like this is painful. And I know full well that if I swap over to do something else (e.g. To look something up), there's a good chance that what I was writing and editing so carefully won't be there when I get back, because iOS might decide it needs to reclaim the memory and dump that app (happens all the time - I have an original iPad). I guess I've seen them used as slider-control input devices for A/V editing, or as input for whatever it is that Bjork does, but it really doesn't seem that great. Since two generations have come out since this old iPad, I've been trying to decide what to do about replacing it with something better. I do like the portability, and I end up using it as a browser / reader a lot, but I can't help but think that an ultrabook would be better. Maybe an Asus Transformer Infinity, with the optional detachable keyboard? Few months yet before that's even an option though.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[betterunixthanunix]

They're far bulkier than my smart phone, so they're not very good on the go.

Well, I find that the larger screen is more convenient for reading journal articles and conference papers, and I like the fact that I am not being coerced into buying a ridiculously overpriced data plan. For quickly checking my email, quickly looking something up, etc. a tablet can be useful.

Now, there is no way that a tablet is going to replace a laptop or desktop. It is too hard to enter data into a tablet, too hard to create new software, and so forth. By the same token, I do not think a laptop could really replace a tablet -- too much weight, too long to resume from suspend, etc. Both have their place.

There are plenty of issues with the current state of affairs with tablets, starting with the no-unapproved-software model that so many vendors are pushing, but utility is not one of them.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[flyingfsck]

Never heard of Xournal have you? It is the best thing for marking up PDFs.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Nerdfest]

An easier way to express this is also "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[dcherryholmes]

They rock for reading comic books in .cbr formats. That's mostly what I use my touchpad for. I had a nook before and in some ways I think a 7" device is superior. But for reading comics you really do want that 9.7" screen.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[NegativeMS]

I'm not some super-fucking-nerdburger like you are. When you can explain to me, in English, how I can get a C compiler onto my tablet without having a Ph.D in computer engineering, then I might take notice.

If you believe that you need a Ph.D to do this, you're in the wrong forum. A bachelor's degree, or just plain ol' persistence should suffice.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[thoth]

On the other hand, I am contemplating purchasing my fourth tablet, as yet another gift. That's 2 ipads to family, and 1 Kindle Fire to a friend, so far... with another possible purchase in the near future. The recipients have all loved them so far.

Yes yes, you of course are so awesome that a room full of servers is barely adequate. Naturally you run dozens of high-end number crunching simulations and modeling programs, develop software using 3 other monitors and continuously stream tv/movies to yet another.

So meanwhile, the computer needs of a large number of people, perhaps even the majority of future users, are satisfied with a tablet. As has been pointed out many times, that's email, web surfing, social media apps/sites, light gaming, etc.

protip: if your sad tablet sits there unused, SELL it.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[carvalhao]

Well, it really depends on the kind of usage you give them. As a CEO I am always on the move, and there are a lot of surfaces and situations in which a laptop really isn't practical. Try the inconvenience of having to show a presentation on a lunch table with a laptop and you will understand why. Nothing beats the ease of passing an unobstrusive device over the table for the other person to check out what you are trying to show. This may sound frivolous, but when you are trying to sell an idea, every bit of positive feeling on the other side really counts. One of the best purchases I ever made.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Anonymous Coward]

Idiotic.

You don't try to cook pizza in your microwave, do you? You don't watch a movie on your phone (unless you have no other choice), do you?

The iPad is a wonderful "adjunct" to a computer. It is NOT a replacement therefore, and it was never intended as such. It is, however, the perfect device for, for example, the following:

Looking up stuff on the internet while sitting in your livingroom. (Coffee-table computing), where the "instant-on" puts nearly ZERO annoyance factor between desire for information and fulfilment.

Using as an auxiliary computer using Telnet and/or VNC-type connectivity while doing development (or do you carry a second display with your laptop?)

Many musical applications (synthesizer/DAW control, mobile multitrack recording, etc.). In fact, I'd like a SECOND iPad for that!

Medium-scale gaming. Most games on a phone are a joke, due to screen size.

"Take anywhere" home security display/control. (Insert advertisement for LiveCams Pro here). Again, phone screen is too small, and the laptop isn't with you in the garage.

Oh, and as an e-reader while working. I use mine to browse documentation while doing development on my work-laptop. No more pawing back and forth between windows... REALLY handy when trying to learn something new!

CAN you do these things with other devices? Sure; but that's not the point. The point is whether it's BETTER for the application; not whether the application is POSSIBLE using another device.

And before I get yelled at for the "caps", I can't stand breaking my train of thought to shove in ridiculous HTML "style" tags, just because I want to emphasize a word; so I use "caps". Get over it. I'm NOT shouting...

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Svippy]

A lot of people got elected that way.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[itsdapead]

I have to admit it, I got caught up in the hype and I bought an tablet. The novelty wore off after a couple of days. Since then, it has sat on my desk, almost completely unused. In fact, it's one of the worst purchases I've ever made.

I bought a small car the other day. Worst purchase I ever made: it won't tow my boat, there's no room in the back for a goat and it can't transport my family of six. After a 1000 mile drive I feel totally exhausted, and it got stuck 100 yards up the half mile dirt track to my house, where it stays while I drive around in my old SUV.

Oh, wait, that's a lie - I have a small car because I don't have a house at the end of a dirt track, a boat, six kids, a goat or a regular need to drive more than a couple of hundred miles... And If I did, I'd quite possibly keep a second small car for convenience when I didn't need to take the goat.

That's where we're heading: PC=truck, Tablet=small car. Pick one or both depending on your needs.

The tablet is ideal for browsing the web, checking email (and making brief replies), playing casual games etc. while sitting in a comfy chair. I can also run the on-demand players for all 5 main TV channels here (only one of which is available on my "smart" TV). At meetings and conferences it's all I need to carry around unless I'm demoing certain bits of software, and it's a much less obtrusive way of taking meeting notes. I can plug in a camera adapter and preview my shots on the road (thats where the new iPads retina display is going to shine).

What it won't do is supplant my proper computer for serious work. However, I know quite a few people for whom a tablet would be all the portable computer they needed. For me, it's all the computer I need while sitting in an armchair.

Ps. I agree that the ePaper Kindle is a better tool for reading a novel. however, that's all a Kindle can do - even for reference books I find the tablet better.

Sent from my Tablet, sitting in a comfy chair.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[CrackedButter]

I notice you don't say WHICH tablet you bought. One particular one is different to all the others and it's the one I take to work everyday 5 days a week, 6 hours a day. Then I come home and my house plays games on it. It's literally being used 12 hours a day, almost every day. Oh and I'm talking about my iPad.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Anonymous Coward]

I kinda thought that's what the post said. Looking up stuff / instant on = media consumption. Your first objection is an agreement. I don't need a second monitor for doing development on my laptop, because the screen is big enough, and nothing disappears when I'm on another window. Besides, looking stuff up is again, media consumption. Again you prove the truth of what you claim to be refuting. Musical input, yeah, that was also in the previous post... Great, the 2% of the world that care will be overjoyed that you didn't just read that and agree. OK, gaming. Guess you've finally got an original one. Didn't want to bring up editing short videos? It was in the post you were replying to, so naturally I figured you'd include it. Maybe it had scrolled off your iPad's screen. Take anywhere? Please. You do NOT take an iPad "anywhere". It doesn't fit in a pocket. I know, you're the kind of suave operator who carries one into a 5-star restaurant to monitor your cams while you're on a date, but nobody I would choose to hang out with even brings one to a bar. They probably do have an iPhone, or other smartphone, and would find the display quite sufficient for that use case. Oh, and an e-reader... Damn, that's one that wasn't covered as A MEDIA CONSUMPTION DEVICE. Go look up media, consumption, and device... I'll wait... Now I'll wait for you to reload this page because your iPad decided that it couldn't maintain the page because all of your memory is busy with LiveCams Pro and the new theme you're sound engineering... Yup, turns out an e-reader is a media consumption device. Who would have known?

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Anonymous Coward]

You didn't mention what kind of tablet you got...you're right, the majority are useless...

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Khyber]

"Many musical applications (synthesizer/DAW control, mobile multitrack recording, etc."

As someone that records music, no, the iPad isn't even worth it. I can't even tune my guitar reliably with one thanks to the shitty microphone picking up everything.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Khyber]

They suck for reading comic books.

Comic books (typical ones published on A4 paper) need a 14.34" diagonal screen measurement to even get the text near the original readable size.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[spacenet]

[...] Python compiler [...]

Huhuhu.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[ckhorne]

I have to admit it, I got caught up in the hype and I bought a computer. The novelty wore off after a couple of days. Since then, it has sat on my desk, almost completely unused. In fact, it's one of the worst purchases I've ever made.

Computers in general are rather pointless devices. They're far bulkier than my pencil and paper, so they're not very good on the go. They're much less comfortable to use than my clipboard, especially when I have to do a lot of writing. They require so much power relative to even a battery powered book light that they're not usable for anything for when I just want to take notes. My pencil and paper has infinite resolution, and thus is a much better medium for reading and writing.

I learned the hard way that the usefulness of computers is purely a marketing creation. They look like they have potential, but in practice they're just the combination of the worst of every other type of new fangled technology that has come out in the past 20 years.

Every tool is only as good as how you implement it.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[dcherryholmes]

Well your mileage varies, then. As I pointed out in my original post, the 7" nook color was a bit too small for my taste, but I find a 10" screen to be just fine. Occasionally I will zoom in on something every now and then, which a good comic reader makes easy, but in general I find them to be very readable, and having, say, the entire run of Astro City, The Boys, The Walking Dead, and a good clutch of Alan Moore all on one device to be pretty awesome.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[PopeRatzo]

Tablets in general are rather pointless devices. They're far bulkier than my smart phone, so they're not very good on the go. They're much less comfortable to use than my netbook or my laptop, especially when I have to do a lot of typing.

I found the same to be true.

Also, to my great surprise as someone who has never really cared much for cellular phones, I am finding that my Android phone has neatly filled a niche for me. I can communicate via all my usual methods (phone, email, video call, etc) and use the Web on the go, and it's a very decent camera (still and video) and organizer/clipper and play some games. And GPS. And watch movies and cartoons that I rip off TV, and works as a fairly capable e-reader for short trips. Dual-core, has a slot for 32gm microSD. I can choose apps from a couple of different sources or load them from SD and didn't even have to root the thing.

I put off buying a smartphone for a long time because I remembered how useless the old "pocket PC" was. But I have to say, this little...whatever it is...let's see..."Motorola Atrix 2 4G" is pretty effing cool and useful. Lasts me all day on a charge. Doesn't have an apple on it, so I don't feel funny pulling it out in public. But then, I've never had trouble pulling it out in public.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[antdude]

So, return/sell it. Tablets are overrated IMO. I want physical clicky keyboards and powerful machines. Yes, I am old school! :P

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Anonymous Coward]

take it back.... two weeks no penalty return. Make sure you take all accessories and the packing materials.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[rsborg]

A lot of people got elected that way.

Rich, Elected, Prophetized, etc... you get what you want by appealing to others. That some have the rootkit to the human psyche and are willing to use it to profit themselves is nothing new at all.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Anonymous Coward]

the usefulness of tablets is purely a marketing creation

Riiiiiiiight. Because "useful to me" is synonymous with "useful to anyone". You're the ur-consumer. Everyone actually enjoying and consistently using their tablets is doing it wrong.

There's also a healthy market for fake vomit to trick and amaze your friends with, but that doesn't necessarily make it a good product.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[rcharbon]

Between us, my wife and I have two Windows desktops, two Windows laptops, an iPad, two iPhones, three nanos, a Shuffle, and a Kindle, AND she has a work laptop too. And they all get used almost every day, except for the Shuffle.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[spire3661]

Tablets are the windows that i both feed and administer my 'real' computers'. This is in no way a bad thing. By the way, the ipad would run circles around the laptops they had in that move. You could run all the CGI sequences from that movie in real time on the ipad. But yeah ,its a toy, a bauble.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[vux984]

The iPad is a wonderful "adjunct" to a computer. It is NOT a replacement therefore, and it was never intended as such.

Sort of agree.

Looking up stuff on the internet while sitting in your livingroom. (Coffee-table computing), where the "instant-on" puts nearly ZERO annoyance factor between desire for information and fulfilment.

Yes, this is where it excels. Someone says something on TV news or makes a reference to something, and you want to look up something more about it. "What is ganache?" or "What does a lavender point siamese cat look like?" or "What planet are Wookies from again?" or "What percentage of the GDP did the USA spend on the military vs healthcare?" ... whatever... And as long as you stop there a tablet is fine.

But I've got a 13" Macboo Pro in my livingroom that covers this role, and I'd NEVER be able to drop down to a tablet -- why? Because after i look up whatever it was on the tablet, I'll refresh the slashdot home page and look at the news... and if I decide to reply, then suddenly I reget being on a tablet.

And I'll send a message to a friend on steam, and reply to a few messages on skype. Now a lot of this is do able on a tablet, but its just so much better on a laptop.

Using as an auxiliary computer using Telnet and/or VNC-type connectivity while doing development (or do you carry a second display with your laptop?)

What now? I have a nice fast i7 based desktop with 2 large screens while doing "development". If I want to do something on the side... I've got a laptop, and yes, I can plug the laptop into a 2nd display as well if I want. Who does serious development on a laptop? And then needs an itoy as a 2ndary screen? -boggle-

Medium-scale gaming. Most games on a phone are a joke, due to screen size.

The 13" laptop beats tablets for "medium scale gaming". I mean unless you think fruit ninja and angry birds are pinnacles of gaming. And the amount of utterly ad-ridden shovelware that passes for games in the app stores is sick. No thanks. My laptop has steam, and plenty of much higher caliber games... games that i can play on my other computers as well if I'm so inclined. Plus I've got access to things like the humble bundles...

And if one wanted mobile gaming in a serious way, I'd suggest a 3DS or something.

"Take anywhere" home security display/control. (Insert advertisement for LiveCams Pro here). Again, phone screen is too small, and the laptop isn't with you in the garage.

You'll take your tablet into the garage but not your laptop? Why exactly?

Oh, and as an e-reader while working. I use mine to browse documentation while doing development on my work-laptop. No more pawing back and forth between windows... REALLY handy when trying to learn something new!

Um...if I was doing development with just a laptop screen sure ... I guess I'd appreciate a tablet... but the real question is why is my development platform so wholly inadequate for the job. Where am developing I that I'm carrying a laptop -and- a tablet around but can't have a proper multiscreen setup?

I mean sure, the last time i was on vacation, I had to hotfix something from a 13" laptop from a hotel room in the carribbean, and I'd have given anything for some more screen real-estate... even a tablet. But really... how often does this come up? And if it came up that often then I would carry 2 laptops or a secondary screen...

CAN you do these things with other devices? Sure; but that's not the point. The point is whether it's BETTER for the application; not whether the application is POSSIBLE using another device.

Exactly. And the answer is its POSSIBLE using a tablet, but its BETTER on a laptop, for all but the most trivial tasks.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[x3CDA84B]

I didn't really understand the point of tablets until I used one extensively for testing a particular application at work, and got used to being able to view my calendar and inbox without the compromise of a phone-sized screen anywhere in the office.

Like Jobs supposedly said, when they're made properly, they're intentionally a class that sits in-between "smart phone" and "laptop". They're not intended to do everything either of those device types can do, just like those devices can't do everything (well) that a tablet can.

Right now, I mainly use mine as an electronic replacement for paper documents.

I can take notes using a stylus, which is a lot more conducive to a conversation than pecking away on a laptop, and because they're electronic/backed-up, I don't need to worry about losing the one notebook that contains what I'm working on.

I can view my calendar anywhere, and unlike a printout it's updated in realtime. I can view my work email. I could do those last two things on my phone if I really wanted to, but the having a comfortably-sized display is much nicer.

I can read electronic copies of documents instead of relying on printouts that may be outdated.

Because it's a tablet, I don't need to sit down to use it like I would with a laptop.

All of the other things it can do (RDP/SSH to systems I'm responsible for) are a great benefit as well, but it's the replacement-for-printed/handwritten-materials aspect that I find most useful about it.

Much to my own surprise (I'm not a big fan of Apple, traditionally), I went with an iPad, because it really does have that "it just works" quality. My paper-and-pen notebook or physical printouts never crashed or took five minutes to boot up, and neither should the thing that replaces them.

I have an Android phone, and when something goes wrong with it, it literally does take multiple minutes to reboot. That's just ridiculous.

I've seen the tablet editions of Windows, and it's painfully obvious that Microsoft's staff still haven't learned anything about making a UI that takes advantage of a particular form factor, as opposed to trying to make one UI that tries to do everything and then attempt to use that on all device types.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[spagthorpe]

Sent from my Tablet, sitting in a comfy chair.

Now we know you are lying. There is no way to type on a tablet while sitting comfortably anywhere.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[painandgreed]

I learned the hard way that the usefulness of tablets is purely a marketing creation. They look like they have potential, but in practice they're just the combination of the worst of every other type of computer or computing device.

No, you learned the hard way that you are long to look and quick to jump and now have buyer's remorse. If you don't find it useful, sell it and stop your bitching for your own mistake.

I find mine very useful for my purposes. It makes a wonderful presentation device for an artist's portfolio. It's lighter than an laptop or print portfolio and you can bring up what you want to show people and hand it to them to look at in about any situation. Book readers might be better for ebooks, for full color PDFs, especially magazines and non-paperback format books, it works much better than smaller book readers. They also make better reading and game devices than laptops on plane flights. For that matter, if I don't have to download photos or burn CDs, it does everything I'd want a laptop for while on vacation for less than a third of the space and weight. But mainly, it's all about magazines as they are seemingly going to PDF format from paper and not only can it hold about as many as I could ever own, but makes a much better reader than laptop for carrying around and using.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[EmagGeek]

I have to agree with your experience. I bought a tablet a while ago, and after a few days I put it down and I haven't really used it since. It's too big to carry around, but not big enough to have a good experience.

By the time I got done finding a good folio and bluetooth keyboard for it, I realized I was just putting together an ultrabook, albeit much more expensively and more klunkily.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Jmc23]

I can tune my guitar perfectly on my android A500.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Jmc23]

awesome for manga...and if you're not a stuck up douche.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[TheRaven64]

I'm not some super-fucking-nerdburger like you are. When you can explain to me, in English, how I can get a C compiler onto my tablet without having a Ph.D in computer engineering, then I might take notice.

You want to have a C compiler, without knowing anything about computers?

This may be hard for you, in your infinite wisdom, to believe; but some people just want to run code.

Sure, lots of people want to just run code. These people, however, are not the same ones who want a C compiler. The people who want a C compiler, generally, are the ones that want to write C code. If you're not comfortable with compiling code yourself, then perhaps a C compiler is not the sort of application that you want to use.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[koan]

So in other words tablets are what you use to connect to your real computers =)

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[yoshi_mon]

Having a tablet when you are at home or someplace for a while is just like having a larger nice smartphone. They are very similar and that is why Apple did so well as the technology that we have allows for such devices. Not to take anything away from Apple for putting some very good polish on it...along with their walled garden.

Anyway having a tablet when you are at home allows you to leave your cell charging while still having that type of functionality at hand. And there are a pretty wide array of form factors. If even the smallest of the newer ones bother you you can always look for a n810 and know that you are running Linux then too. (It will not be fast thou heh, not at all.)

Keep in mind that those who view tablets as a way of life hate sitting at normal computers. They don't want have to be asked why they can't output more than a soundbites worth of thought at a time. I mean if it is Facebook that only expects a soundbite of information at a time along with Farmville, hey game on!

Ok I went over the top a bit there to make a point but my bigger point is that tablets have a purpose. It's not a grand purpose but they do have one.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Anonymous Coward]

My grandmother disagrees. She uses her iPad to look at photos, send and receive email in two different character layouts, and browse the web (and news via Flipbook.) Of course, it's pretty locked down, so a lot of things that should be possible aren't, like adding more photos into her photo albums without a computer. Yeah, DRM sucks, and so do Apple's authoritarian policies. But when I try to imagine trying to teach her to do all those things on a netbook or a laptop, my head hurts. Maybe she's an edge case?

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Anonymous Coward]

One of the funniest misses in tech history is Slashdot's initial reaction to the release of the iPod.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Howitzer86]

Bah. I like them. They have a GPS, an accelerometer, and two cameras. This hardware, in combination with their excellent battery life and larger screens (compared to cell phones), make them excellent for augmented reality and other purposes. They are NOT PCs, this is true, but not everyone wants or needs just a PC. In the construction industry for instance, especially in Building Information Modeling, we are finding these things increasingly useful.

Load up Autocad WS, and you can walk around your model on site, even before it is built. With Autodesk Design Review, you can show anyone, on site or otherwise, the finished building, associated information included... as they are often directly exported from Revit and uploaded to the Autodesk Cloud system, where it can be shared easily and wordlessly between you and your coworkers and subcontractors. Granted, there is still work for Autodesk to do before it is taken really seriously in our industry, it is getting there. We will never do our actual work on the tablet, but the tablet form factor will help us do our work - as any tool ultimately does.

Think of the tablet as the Star Trek Tri-corder. A small multi-function computer that can be programmed to perform in specific tasks where it is best suited. Real work was never done on the Tri-corder, but the Tri-corder was there to help people do their work.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Daniel Phillips]

Tablets in general are rather pointless devices.

Unless you plug in a normal keyboard and install normal software as I do with my Xoom. Then the tablet format makes a nice travel computer. Smaller, lighter and longer battery life than any noteboook/netbook I have used, by far. Even with the bluetooth keyboard.

Of course, this strategy requires access to lots of *standard* computer applications, which pretty well makes it practical only for Android. And until Libre/Openoffice lands, its not quite fully there. But good enough that I will may no longer bother to bring along a backup netbook "just in case".

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Daniel Phillips]

You don't watch a movie on your phone (unless you have no other choice), do you?

My G2 (desire Z) actually subtends a larger angle to my eyes than the classic dropdown CRT displays that ruled the long haul airline scene for many years. And has better color than any flat screen display I have yet seen in an airplane.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Jmc23]

No, it's to say that not all microphones on tablets suck, or not all programs suck at fft, or simply that here's a tablet that can easily be used to tune a guitar, literally EXACTLY what I said.

What the hell is wrong with NT's reading capabilities that they simply can't parse a string literally?

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Anonymous Coward]

Try moving it to the bathroom. Its a lot more useful there.

Also, as a Smoker and an avid SC2 watcher, tablets work quite well for that. Small amounts of media are excellent. I've even used it at work (when my job was to be a body while other people did stuff, ie stores closed, just cleanup) movies did quite well to kill the boredom.

I use my tablet about 10% of the time, most of that is in the bathroom, but it beats my Netbook/Laptops in those situations.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Soporific]

Or they need a C compiler to start a WWIV BBS. ;)

~S

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Daniel Phillips]

The iPad is a wonderful "adjunct" to a computer.

Seems way overpriced if it is just that.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Daniel Phillips]

Watching netflifx in bed or on the couch is nice, but you have to prop it up somehow. Netbooks are better for that.

Note really. The attached keyboard may get in the way, or not fit in the space available, and viewing angles are limited. The Xoom had a nice, cheap portfolio case that, unlike the Apple flappy thing, actually holds the device securely and at a nice selection of angles. If you have a table nearby the media dock is really nice, it has great stereo sound, but of course you can get pretty much the same with a good quality set of pc speakers.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[mcrbids]

But I've got a 13" Macboo Pro in my livingroom that covers this role, and I'd NEVER be able to drop down to a tablet -- why? Because after i look up whatever it was on the tablet, I'll refresh the slashdot home page and look at the news... and if I decide to reply, then suddenly I reget being on a tablet. ... and this is where my Droid2 smart phone comes to the rescue, with its built-in keyboard that's just enough to make comments like this, something I do frequently.

Um...if I was doing development with just a laptop screen sure ... I guess I'd appreciate a tablet... but the real question is why is my development platform so wholly inadequate for the job. Where am developing I that I'm carrying a laptop -and- a tablet around but can't have a proper multiscreen setup?

And of course, I have such a multi-screen set up at work, including a 40" mirror screen for sharing my screen with a group as needed. I have a tablet, and occasionally use it, but find that my phone does as good or better a job because of its proper keyboard and it's *always* being on my person.

The only thing that the tablet really does better at, IMHO, is watching movies, and I prefer a BIG screen (32" or better) and a decent lounge chair for that!

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[sootman]

My main problem with the iPad is it doesn't automatically close HTML tags and it hides the 'Preview' button on Slashdot. ;-)

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[hairyfeet]

The customers I wasn't able to talk out of getting one are telling me the ame thing, it either is used as a very expensive ebook reader or a video player which considering a portable DVD player is like $40 is just another waste. After trying several (yes including an iPad) I think I'll just stick with my netbook, its got an AMD dual core APU so its got more CPU and GPU power than the tablets, gets just crazy good battery life, over 7 hours surfing or 6 playing HD video, only weighs 3 pounds so is no problem to carry in its little sleeve, 12 inch screen so easy to read, 320Gb drive so I can have all my tunes and tons of videos, tons of great software like Audacity that is 100% free and finally I managed to snag it pre flood for $350 with an 8Gb RAM upgrade.

YES there are some niches like medical and warehouses where tablets make sense NO that doesn't translate to the majority of the population. Its just marketing buzz, same as more than 80% of the laptops i sell are never ever unplugged. What is the point of paying more for a mobile computer that you don't use the mobility on? Fuck if I know but that's what folks do with the things, just as the tablets end up eBook readers or portable video players.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[ogdenk]

Idiotic.

You don't try to cook pizza in your microwave, do you? You don't watch a movie on your phone (unless you have no other choice), do you?

The iPad is a wonderful "adjunct" to a computer. It is NOT a replacement therefore, and it was never intended as such.

Then why do morons insist on using lame terms like "Post-PC quarter" and market them to folks as futuristic computer replacements. With glitzy UI's that sacrifice efficiency and powerful features for sloppy finger-based poke-and-drool ease on overpriced consumer devices that are used more to check facebook status updates than actual real world productivity. And to play lame-ass games. Or for little girls to play with FaceTime inspired by lame-ass disney afterschool shows.

Maybe for computer novices with no intention of ever learning to type or learn anything about *real* computing, they seem like wonder devices. In other words, most students in the United States of America who are having them issued by school districts.

And why are even supposedly educated radio announcers on NPR are typically oblivious that tablet computing has existed since the early 90's? In fact those devices are actually more USEFUL in trained hands than the current crop. Why does Apple even pretend their own Newton never existed?

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Anonymous Coward]

Now we know you are lying. There is no way to type on a tablet.

FTFY

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[mug funky]

guitar tuner is a lot cheaper.

a control surface for protools/reaper/color/finalcutpro/speedgrade/resolve is much, much, MUCH more expensive than an ipad.

it isn't as good as a Tangent Wave panel, but it's enough to get away from a goddamned mouse and start grading two handed.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Anonymous Coward]

For me, my iPad is in some cases actually superior to my laptop. Examples of when I prefer the iPad:

*PDF annotation. It's much simpler to drag a stylus across a highlight when you're reading than to mess with the trackpad, and I prefer handwritten annotations to typewritten ones. Drawing a quick diagram? Much nicer on the iPad than it is with my laptop. I have a Wacom tablet that is definitely more precise, but do I really need to cart MORE shit around?

*Heck, PDF viewing in general. It's so nice to have a device with the option of portrait orientation. So many other tablets are 16:9, and since the iPad is relatively close to 4:3, that also makes it pretty close to having the same ratios as letter size. I hate reading PDFs on my laptop, but reading them on my iPad is lovely. Before you mention the Kindle, I actually own a Kindle and definitely prefer it for reading your average eBook. However, Kindles barf on large PDFs (even ones devoid of color graphics) and PDFs don't support text rescaling, so it's very cumbersome to read them. Also, annotating and highlighting with a Kindle is a pain.

*Math input for jotting down notes. Yes, I know TeX, but trying to type that on the fly isn't as easy as direct stylus input. Even though I'm okay enough with it, one typo can keep the document from compiling, and then I'm distracted by that. I also find that I'm better with recall when I write vs when I type, which makes the iPad an even more compelling choice for me. Why not do this with regular paper rather than an overpriced toy? Easy: I lose paper, regularly destroy notebook binding, and the iPad takes up less space than several notebooks. Do I still use paper when it's the superior choice? Of course. They complement each other.

*Using it on public transportation. If the commuter bus home is packed, it's much easier to use the split keyboard and hold it similarly to a smartphone than to type in a normal manner. This doesn't even get into the benefits of its light weight. I see plenty of iPads on my way home, but laptops are rare.

*Thinking through programming problems. It's nice to keep around for quick references and for drawing out quick visual representations of problems without wasting paper and possibly losing said paper. It's a good supplement.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Anonymous Coward]

You do know that most musicians use external USB microphones + the camera connection kit, yes?

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Jeremi]

And why are even supposedly educated radio announcers on NPR are typically oblivious that tablet computing has existed since the early 90's? In fact those devices are actually more USEFUL in trained hands than the current crop.

Trained hands are irrelevant. The public never had, and never will have, trained hands.

The real question is, what is it about iPads that makes Slashdot nerds so bitter and angry? It's not like they are being forced to buy one or use one. I think it is because their sense of self-worth is based around their competence with traditional computing, and they see the value of all their hard-earned expertise draining away as more and more people find that they no longer need to "know computers", or ask for help from someone who does.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Jeremi]

What is the point of paying more for a mobile computer that you don't use the mobility on?

Because that way if/when you ever do want to use the mobility, you can. People can't predict their future needs with 100% accuracy, so some like to leave their options open. e.g. even if my laptop never leaves my desk for 3 years, that one day in year 4 when I absolutely need to take it to a client's location to show them a demo will make the extra investment worthwhile.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Ihmhi]

Then why do morons insist on using lame terms like "Post-PC quarter" and market them to folks as futuristic computer replacements.

Because they are trying to sell tablets.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[ogdenk]

Bullshit. They don't understand the tablets either and you know it. They also run into walls with the limitations pretty quickly. And it's not limitations in the hardware. It's artificially imposed software limitations put there so people can pretend the last 30 years of UI design and computer science didn't happen making them further removed from understanding why they can't do something they've been able to do for generations.

Like I said, teeny boppers on Facebook love them. People who want to be cool like their kids love them. Business pros and people who are used to computers actually being an efficient way to get things done hate them.

I never made money on computer illiterate home end users, I make money doing real IT work where users are at least expected to be able to do basic tasks without handholding. Not working for the geek squad. My job is safe douche.

The only people who no longer need to know computers are the ones who never used them professionally anyway and really, those are customers I don't want.

Until tablets are capable of running full versions of apps like Photoshop, AutoCAD, Office, Lightwave, etc you are entirely full of shit. Too bad your self worth seems to be based around being a smug hipster ahead of the "old fogies" based on your devotion to your overpriced toy computer with a crippled interface.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[sortius_nod]

I call bullshit on your uninformed opinion.

I have 20 years experience in IT, yet I use my iPad every day. I just upgraded from the original to the new iPad and am very impressed with the improvements. I have no trouble touch typing on it. There's already Photoshop & Office apps on the iPad. If you want Lightwave & AutoCAD on a tablet you're missing the point. To run that stuff on a desktop, let alone a laptop, you need a beefy machine. Are you willing to live with 30 minute usable battery life? I know I'm not.

The only reason why anyone would be against a tablet is if they really don't get it. You don't get it, by the seems of it you never will as you're using the same "reasons" why tablets aren't worth it as every tablet hater. It's people like you that are ridiculed in tech circles for your neo-Luddite attitudes.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Anonymous Coward]

I haven't tried other tablets, but two thumb typing in portrait mode on an iPad is a breeze. It's far far easier than on a smartphone, and very practical until you need to do a lot of editing, coding or write a thesis. In fact basically all the typing I do now except coding is done on my tablet.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Jeremi]

Too bad your self worth seems to be based around being a smug hipster ahead of the "old fogies" based on your devotion to your overpriced toy computer with a crippled interface.

I don't actually own a tablet, nor do I plan to own one. But that doesn't prevent me from understanding why other people like them. Nor does my lack of desire for a tablet require me to get mad and insult the people who do like them.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[ogdenk]

I call bullshit on your semi-informed opinion :-P I have to support tablets as well but most of the time people are willing to realize they are content CONSUMPTION devices.

Define touch typing. I type at 65wpm+ on a real keyboard. Typing on an iPad is only slightly less painful and maybe a hair more fun than typing on an Atari 400 or even a Sinclair ZX81. If you can exceed 30wpm on an iPad or iPhone keyboard, more power to you. You're going to have flat fingertips in old age. To suggest a touch-screen is a viable replacement for a real tactile keyboard is funny at best.

And show me a FULL-FEATURED version of photoshop, not something for simple tweaking on the go. And a FULL-FEATURED version of MS Office that integrates well with some mutant sharepoint-based nightmare on some remote Windows 2000 server.

AutoCAD used to run on sub-50MHz machines. Lightwave ran on a 68K Amiga. Cubase ran on the Atari ST. The UI for any of these apps (except maybe Cubase) just plain wouldn't work in a tablet. Face it, some people need pointer precision and buttons to efficiently work. These things were added because PEOPLE NEEDED THEM not just because engineers were stupid and like wasting money on tactile switches.

I'm not against a tablet for looking at wikipedia while watching a movie or checking up on slashdot. I'm against people thinking they are a remote replacement for a machine designed for content creation. What tech circles are you referring to, the stock room at Best Buy?

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[mjwx]

Tablets in general are rather pointless devices

My tablet has three real purposes,
1) to hack and play around with Android ROMS.
2) Watching movies on the plane.
3) Acknowledging alerts in the middle of the night.
Seeing as 1 and 3 dont apply to most people, its main purpose is to be a portable media player (wow, like there were none of those years before the Ipad *cough*Cowon D2*cough*).

Really, I couldn't justify the price of an Ipad. I bought an Acer Iconia 500 on special for A$350 and since then have hacked Ice Cream Sandwich on there (without a doubt, the easiest Android hack I've ever done, over in 10 minutes). One thing is for certain, they aren't general purpose computers.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Anonymous Coward]

ehhhh??? since when is compiling a compiler at the same level as compiling your own c code?

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[TheRaven64]

Given that the compiler has one of the better build systems around, you're right, it isn't. It's probably easier...

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't try to cook pizza in your microwave, do you?

Why yes, I do. Although it is, of course, a combination microwave oven so I use the conventional oven part for pizzas, but being smaller than my normal oven it heats up quicker.

Since you can have a device that is both a conventional oven and microwave oven and do both jobs well, what is wrong with having a tablet than can also function as a netbook-like computer? There is only the issue of hardware design -- maybe like the Transformer is the best way to handle it or maybe a thin slide out keyboard would be better -- and the issue of appropriate software, and neither iOS nor Android suit traditional computing well.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Anonymous Coward]

How do they work once you are older than 12?

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[hairyfeet]

Your theory would make sense IF they had then used it at some point but I have customers on their second or third laptop that has NEVER been unplugged. i don't mean not unplugged for any length of real time friend, I mean its sitting on a desk where they use it EXACTLY like a desktop without ever unplugging the thing. Now why would you pay MORE money for a computer with LESS speed, less memory, less screen real estate, less of everything? Fuck if I know but I see it all the time Hell I ask them "Are you gonna use it on the road? car? Going to school? Need it for on the job? Then why?" and all I get is 'i just want one' so i think its more for saying "I have a laptop" than anything else personally, The funny part is since they leave it plugged in 24/7 and never use the battery in less than a year the battery is shot anyway so all it ends up is just a really shitty desktop.

But if your theory was true why wouldn't they just do as I suggest and get a cheaper laptop along WITH a decent speed desktop? Then they could be mobile AND wouldn't be stuck dragging ass when at home with those slow mobile chips. But they don't, they'll buy some $700-$900+ laptop and then the thing never leaves the place they unpack it to, talk about a waste. To use a /. car analogy it would be like buying a new car every 3 years only to leave it parked in the lot until it locked up only to go out and do it again, so stupid.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Nominei]

There is a Graffiti app for android tablets. Unfortunately, the capacitive screens in the tablets doesn't lend itself well to the precision that a palm pilot stylus gave on the resistive screens they used. I used Graffiti for all of ten minutes before I gave up and removed it from the tablet. Graffiti is best remembered fondly, it doesn't hold up on tablets.

By the way, I barely touch my tablet... it's a toy, not a useful tool.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Khyber]

No, they don't. Most musicians still use reliable gear designed for specific purposes.

Also, USB microphones introduce recording lag. Doesn't matter the OS.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Khyber]

Of course it's fine for manga. Most manga books are SMALLER than the iPad in the first place.

*looks over at 20,000+ volumes of manga on his shelves, from Lone Wolf and Cub to Battle Royale*

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[soupforare]

I wouldn't use it for recording, but it's definitely the best synth module to come out in years. Way cheaper than a Muse, actually has developers unlike the Varios. Hell, if all you used it for was Korg iMS20 it'd be worth it.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Stewie241]

Oh come on you can't possibly be saying that airplane entertainment devices are anything less than top of the line, state of the art equipment!

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[narcc]

Most of what you want involves a stylus. As you know, capacitive touch screens are abysmal for pen input (writing, drawing, highlighting, etc.)

You might actually be happier with a cheap knock-off tablet with a resistive touch screen or something like the Galaxy Note that uses a Wacom digitizer.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[scot4875]

The only reason why anyone would be against a tablet is if they really don't get it.

I'm not 'against' tablets; that's absurd. They're handy to have around, and I picked one up to test app development on. Now that I have one, I've found uses for it.

That said, the total value of those uses doesn't even come *close* to the cost of a decent tablet. At a $200 price point, sure, tablets would make an awesome toy for someone that might even get some real use from time to time. At $500 or more? They're an overpriced shiny for people who just can't get away from Facebook and the web for 15 minutes. Apple loves to advertise about how smart people's iPads will make them, with all of those fantastic learning experience apps (... that could be used on a PC or laptop just as easily ...) but the image they're projecting doesn't match reality.

Also, I call bullshit on your 'touch typing' on an iPad. The whole point of touch typing is that you can feel the keys. You can't feel keys on a touchscreen; if your hands get shifted 3mm to one side, good luck reorienting them without looking. Not to mention that the keyboad covers half your screen whenever typing on it.

--Jeremy

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Jmc23]

That's why I made the comment. Though I don't have any problems with reading comics on my A500 and prefer my Nook Touch for some manga, I wouldn't mind a new Ipad for reading programming books and pdfs.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[madhi19]

I got one (Acer Iconia a500) and I found that it did take the place of my laptop for mobility sake. I don't think desktop computing is in any danger but laptop could really be squeezed in the middle. I does make a killer comic book reader.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Hes Nikke]

If you're tuning your guitar using the built in mic, you've got bigger problems.

Re:I'm not going to make the tablet mistake again.

[Khyber]

Amplitube, what a piece of crap. Came with my Tracktion sotware. Pure garbage.

And no, my built-in mics are just fine. Software for tuning typically doesn't come with a Harmonic Graph to see what's distorting the signal to the mic.

Luckily, there's free stuff that's old and still works with Windows 7 - Like this one.

If only they rooted instead of jailbreaking

[Anonymous Coward]

This means that hackers have already found and exploited security holes to run custom code on the new iPad with iOS 5.1.

Rooting is a feature and not an exploit of any security holes. Why didn't they just do that instead?

Re:If only they rooted instead of jailbreaking

[oodaloop]

Yeah, maybe they'll work on that in the next few hours. I guess it's not good enough for you that they found three seperate ways in the first few hours to jailbreak it.

Jailbreaks

[Anonymous Coward]

Remember: Jailbreaks are code execution vulnerabilities. On your oh so secure Apple device.

Re:Jailbreaks

[jo_ham]

Remember: Jailbreaks are code execution vulnerabilities. On your oh so secure Apple device.

No software is 100% secure, all you can do is fix bugs and security holes as they become evident.

Speaking of that, when Apple *does* fix these security holes, it's painted as "Apple patches jailbreaking because they hate freedom!!!" instead of "Apple closes security vulnerability".

Damned if they do, damned if they don't, I suppose.

(Disclaimer: I think iOS should have a built in 'advanced' mode that effectively results in the same thing as jailbreaking).

Re:Jailbreaks

[Anonymous Coward]

They should switch to Android and root their device instead. Rooting is a feature and not a code execution vulnerability, not at all.

Re:Jailbreaks

[Anonymous Coward]

No software is 100% secure, all you can do is fix bugs and security holes as they become evident.

False. Good software design & testing goes a long way at preventing security problems.

Re:Jailbreaks

[blahbooboo]

And most of the jailbreaks require physical access to the device which is less dangerous than remote ones such as the extremely rare ones done via a web page attack. The latest requires no pass code on the device as well

Re:Jailbreaks

[Anonymous Coward]

If it's a hole in Safari or in PDF, like two previous one, then it's a problem.

However if it's a bug in the restore method of the device or the usb driver or something like that I wouldn't be too scared.

Re:Jailbreaks

[Anonymous Coward]

Right, because bugs and security holes could never become evident during design and testing... :-P

Re:Jailbreaks

[Anonymous Coward]

Speaking of that, when Apple *does* fix these security holes, it's painted as "Apple patches jailbreaking because they hate freedom!!!"

I agree that it's unfair; clearly there are times when Apple does things for reasons other than restricting people's freedom, and sees that aspect of things as merely a nice bonus.

Re:Jailbreaks

[simonebaracchi]

don't we usually say "physical access to machines equals root access!" instead of "code execution vulnerabilities" when this happens to unix boxes?

Re:Jailbreaks

[Surt]

This is exactly why the NSA suffers from chronic breakins. There's just no way to fully secure software.

Re:Jailbreaks

[CharlyFoxtrot]

Latest jailbreaks are using up to 3 or 4 different exploits and require a physical cable connection in order to jailbreak. Yes these are bugs but it's not like the make the device super vulnerable. As witnessed by the fact the iPhone 4S jailbreak took months of dedicated work by several hacker groups to figure out a jailbreak. The reason this iPad 3 jailbreak is out so quickly is because the latest iOS release seems to be all about supporting the new retina display and LTE on the iPad and not fixing bugs. Jailbreakers will probably be back to square one when iOS 5.2 comes along though.

Re:Jailbreaks

[betterunixthanunix]

Damned if they do, damned if they don't, I suppose.

False dichotomy; they could have just shipped tablets that were not locked down, or as you yourself suggest, tablets which can be unlocked by the user.

Re:Jailbreaks

[betterunixthanunix]

Except that the NSA also employs a variety of operational security measures to prevent break-ins. A windows machine that is not connected to the Internet is not going to be infected with viruses (yes I know someone could walk up to it and infect it; that is beside the point, there is no such thing as perfect security).

Re:Jailbreaks

[Black.Shuck]

I think a good reason an "advanced mode" isn't included is they'd have to support it.

A traditional, non "locked-down" OS is a support nightmare, and Apple sees enough of that with OS X which has a far smaller user-base than iOS.

Re:Jailbreaks

[jo_ham]

Damned if they do, damned if they don't, I suppose.

False dichotomy; they could have just shipped tablets that were not locked down, or as you yourself suggest, tablets which can be unlocked by the user.

In other words, their freedom to choose is conditional on aligning with your wishes. Now who's restricting freedom?

Re:Jailbreaks

[betterunixthanunix]

So you are suggesting that it increases "freedom" to prevent users from installing political cartoon apps on their tablets? How is providing a switch that allows users to unlock their tablets restricting anyone's freedom?

Oh wait, this is the old "if corporations want to screw their customers, they should have the freedom to do so" argument. User freedoms should come second to corporations', right? It is not as though users should have any expectation of being able to install the software they want to install on their tablets, if the corporation that produces those tablets says they are not supposed to be doing so, right?

Re:Jailbreaks

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll join you in mod hell by saying this is not surprising. Apple security is a myth. In real security tests/contests Apple always fairs worse than even Windows.

Re:Jailbreaks

[jo_ham]

By that same token, if users "don't want to be screwed" then they are free to *not* purchase the device.

A company is free to decide the features of a product (assuming it is within the law), and a consumer is free to choose to buy or not buy it.

If the product doesn't fit your needs, then buy something else. You can't buy it, knowing the (fully legal) restrictions that Apple places on the thing and then complain that they are "limiting your freedom". Why did you buy it in the first place? You're free to do so of course, but you can't simply expect anything you don't agree with to be labelled "freedom limiting" because it doesn't do what you want it to do.

That's the whole reason Android exists - as an alternative and freer option to iOS.

My hammer doesn't have an attachment to put in screws. I could modify it with some effort to fit such an attachment, but I'm not claiming the hammer manufacturer is limiting my freedom because the head end is made of high speed tempered steel that is really difficult to machine at home for delicate modifications, nor that they're limiting my freedom for not coming with a screwdriver attachment built in.

You say "how is providing a switch that allows users to unlock their tablets restricting anyone's freedom?" yet you ignore Apple's freedom in this. They clearly don't want to include that switch, and it is their freedom to choose (NOTE: I disagree with that decision, but it is theirs to make).

Re:Jailbreaks

[jo_ham]

Yes, he's free to do that, but he cannot mischaracterise it as "restricting freedom" - it is merely one of several products that the OP can choose from. It has a set of features, much like any other product. Just because they don't align with his beliefs doesn't make it "broken" - merely unsuitable for his needs.

Re:Jailbreaks

[betterunixthanunix]

Well, we can ignore the fact that some people (e.g. students) are forced to use Apple's products if you want -- there are plenty of arguments about whether or not students should even be allowed to program school computers in arbitrary ways. Sure, people can choose to buy other tablets, but how is it unfair to criticize Apple for including a "feature" the prevents users from running unsigned code? If I were asked, "Do you recommend an iPad?" why should I not answer, "No, because your computer will be controlled by Apple, and Apple is known to use that control in ways that have a negative impact on its users?"

I do not agree that a computer maker is in the right when they create a computer that works against the interests of its users, or which remains under the control of its creator even after the ownership of the computer is transferred to someone else. Computers are basically the most important communications tools ever developed, and what Apple is doing with iPads and related devices is to prevent people from using those tools in the way that suits them. Apple has basically taken back the freedom and control that people had over their PCs, and whatever possible technical argument there might have been (e.g. they just want to prevent people from installing malware) has been obliterated by their overt censorship policy.

Apple is careful to hide how they make use of the power they retain over tablets. Nobody tells you that your tablet is designed to prevent you from installing a pornography app or a political cartoon app. The "Apple retains control" feature is not something Apple talks about when they lobby for their tablets to be used in schools, or when they advertise their tablets to consumers. Apple knows this is not a feature that people want, and they push it on their customers anyway. Nobody expects Apple to advertise features that people do not want; we expect Apple not to include the features in the first place.

Do you defend government censorship, because it is the "government's freedom?" Nobody speaks about China's freedom to censor its population and to work against the interests of various ethnic groups in China, except perhaps for shills employed by the Chinese government. Why should we speak of Apple's freedom to censor its users, to sneak features in that its users do not want, or to abuse the power it has over its users? America's economic system, like everything else promoted by the US government, is supposed to serve the people best -- so why should we not criticize Apple for failing to do so?

Re:Jailbreaks

[gtall]

"That's the whole reason Android exists - as an alternative and freer option to iOS." I doubt this. Google probably did Android because they saw that Apple threatened to lock them out of all that wonderous user data they like to collect on all of us and then resell it. So they produced their own version of iOS to make sure they got a decent cut of that data.

Re:Jailbreaks

[Anonymous Coward]

(Disclaimer: I think iOS should have a built in 'advanced' mode that effectively results in the same thing as jailbreaking).

But then the headlines will scream "iPad users lose sensitive data to new Trojan."

As you said, damned if they do; reviled if they don't...

Re:Jailbreaks

[Black.Shuck]

Just a show of hands: Has anyone here installed an app on their regular computer -- that is to say, a compiled binary that isn't a web-browser -- that allows them to view political cartoons or pornography? If you have, can you vouch for the experience over using a web-browser?

I think it's time for someone to take their tinfoil hat off.

Re:Jailbreaks

[alienzed]

Any sort of 'advanced' mode might result in regular users turning it on by accident and then resulting in a much much greater number of vulnerabilities. No, the closed wall garden that Apple employs is what makes iOS great.And let's be honest, 95% of jailbreakers just want to pirate apps.

Re:Jailbreaks

[Anonymous Coward]

Damned if they do, damned if they don't, I suppose.

False dichotomy; they could have just shipped tablets that were not locked down, or as you yourself suggest, tablets which can be unlocked by the user.

If you want something 'open' get an android device, but watch out for the freedom that that gives to unscrupulous developers too.

Re:Jailbreaks

[aaaaaaargh!]

No software is 100% secure, all you can do is fix bugs and security holes as they become evident.

Absolutely spot on. I'm in the aviation business and sometimes our clients demand 100% secure software. They want us to use ridiculous and complicated tools like Spark and formal software verification. This is what I say to them: Look, no software is 100% secure, all you can do is fix bugs and security holes as they become evident. That's why our company uses Objective-C applications and the latest iPads for everything in the plane. Yes, you've heard me right: everything. We replace all microcontrollers and all avionics electronic equipment in the plane with Apple iPads, which are wired to actuators and sensors by hand. And the best thing is: This also gives the pilots access to thousands of great apps (such as Angry Birds) they can use during long and boring flights! Sure, it's not a 100% secure, but then again, no software is, so what the fuck. We fix the bugs as they come up. Plus, it's cheaper.

Re:Jailbreaks

[spire3661]

Have you ever heard of the word compromise? As in 'you always have to compromise security for flexibility?' You want a secure computer? turn it off. Everything else takes diligence.

Re:Jailbreaks

[Overzeetop]

See, but that's okay because to get to those vulnerabilities you need physical access to my device. If you can't root my iPad with an app that's available in the app store (i.e. a hidden root), or via an email or link I get to from Safari, then the system is secure enough.

Re:Jailbreaks

[jo_ham]

So, you think a mission-critical, isolated software environment for a specific task (say, a flight computer, or a reactor monitoring system or similar) is the same as a consumer-level device that connects to the internet?

I can see what you're trying to do here, but all that software verification takes time and money, and while it could be argued that we should be equally rigorous with *all* software, there is a limit to what you can do economically. This doesn't mean that there is *no* verification in commercial software, but that it's not as exhaustive as for something like a flight system or an NSA-suitable device. Even with all that brutal testing, it's still not 100% guaranteed to exclude all security holes and bugs (unless you control the system in totality and do not make changes - eg, no external network access, no new modules, no new hardware once your exhaustive audit is completed).

Re:Jailbreaks

[__aaqvdr516]

I hope they fix all of their security holes, but it will never happen.

Re:Jailbreaks

[Anonymous Coward]

And that's a silver bullet. Good software design and testing prevents all security problems, 100% of the time.

According to dumbasses at least.

Re:Jailbreaks

[aaaaaaargh!]

You have an intriguing sense of humor. Apple user?

Re:Jailbreaks

[Anonymous Coward]

And let's be honest, 95% of jailbreakers just want to pirate apps.

And 83.7% of statistics are made up on the spot.

I take issue with you assertion. I jailbreak my devices because I want to really own them. In particular, for things like a shell terminal, iFile and PrivaCy, and the ability to unlock my iPhone so that I can switch SIM cards when I travel abroad. I can't imagine any user that's knowledgable *not* wanting to install things like PrivaCy, actually.

I've spent plenty on apps in the App store, & have never even looked into pirating iDevice apps. I think that developers should be paid for their work, & I don't want to run the risk of security-compromised versions of software. But I didn't get an iPad2 until I knew I could jailbreak it.

Personally, I liked the way that Nokia used to handle it with their N-series mini tablets: have a "red pill" mode on the device for those that want to tinker, but make it obscure to enable.

Re:Jailbreaks

[IamTheRealMike]

The NSA operates under the assumption that they are permanently compromised and heavily compartmentalize and set up internal firewalls as a result.

Re:Jailbreaks

[sjames]

When it should be "Apple provides no unlock capability because they hate Freedom".

Re:Jailbreaks

[sjames]

Apple's freedom to swing their fist ends at the consumer's nose.

Re:Jailbreaks

[betterunixthanunix]

Yet Apple took the time to remove hundreds of pornography apps and numerous political cartoon hats. It is not paranoia -- it actually did happen, it was widely reported here on Slashdot, and if you are not aware of it at this point then you are sorely uninformed.

Re:Jailbreaks

[Anonymous Coward]

It is often said: Freedom is the right to do what you like, as long as it doesn't interfere with anybody else's freedom.

Re:Jailbreaks

[Anonymous Coward]

Posting anonymously because I just upmodded the person to whom you responded.

What part of "whoosh" don't you understand?

Re:Jailbreaks

[jo_ham]

Among other things, yes.

Re:Jailbreaks

[jo_ham]

Depends how you look at it - it could be "Apple doesn't sell an open mobile device, but does sell relatively open computers as a whole".

It's up to them. Do you think their choice of setup on iOS is exclusively because they hate freedom, given their track record with the other things that they make? Or might it be for a whole range of complex reasons, that mainly centre around user experience (the vast, vast, vast majority of iOS users are not in the /. user demographic) and the desire to limit support issues?

It could just be down to their Machiavellian desire to destroy the world, of course.

Re:Jailbreaks

[jo_ham]

The consumer's freedom to choose ends at demanding that $vendor does something specific that they don't offer on $product.

Re:Jailbreaks

[jo_ham]

It's very hard to tell on /. these days. Have you read some of the posts that are actually heartfelt. They read like satire from 5 or 6 years ago, but are actually genuine. I had someone argue with me that Apple are fudging their numbers for the App Store; that it's secretly running in gigantic profit, and that all these profits were being tallied in the iPhone 4S sales column, since the 4S was "selling so poorly". I mean, where do you even begin?

This was an edge case, but I read it as a hyperbolic sarcasm. So, I got got. Maybe I'll get the next one.

Re:Jailbreaks

[jo_ham]

Incidentally, I thought that posting AC in the same thread where you have already moderated on your own account cancelled the mod (due to IP address/cookie tracking?)

Is that even possible?

Re:Jailbreaks

[sjames]

I think it's that they are control freaks. This is the company that said with a strait face "We didn't design it wrong, you're ALL holding it wrong". They think they invented the rounded rectangle. They're kooks.

Adding a checkbox somewhere with a stern warning wouldn't damage the user experience. It also wouldn't cause support problems at all. Checked box = no support. Uncheck the box (causing reversion to factory settings) if you want support.

The quite popular 1 click jailbreaks for various fruity devices aren't for the /. audience. By the end, Jobs became the guy on the big screen.

Re:Jailbreaks

[Jeremi]

In real security tests/contests Apple always fairs worse than even Windows.

On the other hand, most users never run a security test, or enter their computer into a security contest. Instead, they run their day-to-day apps, check email, and browse the web. And in that scenario (i.e. the one people actually operate under, not an artificially constructed one), Apple fares better than Windows. So far, anyway.

Re:Jailbreaks

[Anonymous Coward]

Huh? You mean like the freedom to have their app's rights blocked by the firewalls you can install. Android's security model is a fair amount better than iOS's, and has more support for third-party security tools if you are really paranoid. That said, both have pretty terribly broken security models by default because apps effectively get rights to whatever they want because no one reads the warnings on Android because it gives you no way to say "no" other than not installing the app at all.

Re:Jailbreaks

[jo_ham]

They did "invent" the round rectangle. Well, they were first to implement a way of drawing it quickly in a UI way back in the day. (ooh, I'll take some karma burn for that one, and yes DISCLAIMER: I am aware you are talking about the physical rounded rectangle, not the UI element).

Still, given that one of your arguments is that they "think they invented the round rectangle" I think we're done here.

Re:Jailbreaks

[Black.Shuck]

Yes, I know that Apple removed pornographic and political apps from their App Store. It's their store, curated by their staff, running on their servers. I will admit it would have been courteous to have outlined a full set of ToC's before the developers spent time writing their apps (an especially shitty situation since devs have to pay $100 a year to get into the App Store, although Xcode is now a free download) but Apple have apologised for that now, and admit their curation standards are a work-in-progress. It's not a complete answer, but things have progressed beyond the sensational to the mundane.

Anyway, iOS users aren't really denied access to the content you mention, are they? They can still open Safari and browse to whatever they choose. Porn and political japery are mere taps away. You can even fire-up YouTube and watch video replays of RMS eating his own toe-jam in front of dozens of fellow free-software advocates. It's just that Apple offer a curated alternative. It's like apt-get, except with a nice GUI and a bunch of people who try to ensure no malware gets through.

Don't insist that everyone offering goods in a free-market should be forced to follow your ideals -- it smacks of the totalitarian. If what Apple is doing is wrong the people will vote with their feet and go elsewhere. So far, it looks like the iPad's drought of pornographic and political cartoon apps aren't really hurting the user-satisfaction surveys. Or Apple's bank-balance.

Re:Jailbreaks

[sjames]

They found A way to draw them fast because they had a need to because Jobs liked them (to be fair, they are nice). These days, they seem to THINK they invented the whole concept even though it's documented that it was copied from street signs (and wood workers have been easing edges since woodworking started).

Apple security in general

[koan]

Totally off topic:
I saw a job post the other day for iPad support, I had to laugh as I can imagine the calls "Plug it in and restore....that didn't work? Ok plug it in and restore"

Re:Apple security in general

[WrongSizeGlass]

Totally off topic: I saw a job post the other day for iPad support, I had to laugh as I can imagine the calls "Plug it in and restore....that didn't work? Ok plug it in and restore"

Are you sure it just wasn't some rich dude wanting a human iPad holder?

This problem is for not only new iPad

[Anonymous Coward]

Should I grasp that iPhone and iPod touch installed iOS5.1 has the same valnerability?

Re:This problem is for not only new iPad

[Tarlus]

That is my guess, which would explain how the new iPad was so quickly jailbroken.

Re:This problem is for not only new iPad

[jo_ham]

Probably, but it can also depend on the firmware in the device, which can vary between different iOS devices, even running the same version of iOS.

This is good news

[Anonymous Coward]

I always wondered when people would start saying that the Apple OS was less secure than Windows.

One at a Time

[Fnord666]

Hopefully the jailbreaking community will only use one exploit at a time so that when Apple patches the first, they can use the next and so on. What I would like to know is whether there are multiple groups working on this, and if so, do they communicate their exploits so that no more than one is revealed to Apple at a time?

Re:One at a Time

[Anonymous Coward]

Considering that the jailbreak in question is already 6 vulnerabilities, that will be tricky.

Re:One at a Time

[anethema]

As mentioned you need many exploits for one jailbreak, but multiple groups will not release all their own jailbreak using totally diff methods for the same ios version. There has been semi-good cooperation there in the past.

But does it..

[iZC]

run Linux?

Re:But does it..

[Anonymous Coward]

With any luck, no.

Re:But does it..

[gtall]

Of course not..but not because it cannot but rather no Linux user could conceive of buying an iDevice without risking a spiral of self-loathing that could only result in suicide or being accused of being gay.

SB Settings only reason to JB anymore

[Anonymous Coward]

See title.

Re:SB Settings only reason to JB anymore

[Anonymous Coward]

Care to explain what SB Settings are?

Re:SB Settings only reason to JB anymore

[CharlyFoxtrot]

Care to explain what SB Settings are?

It's a drop-down panel that allows quick access to certain settings through toggle buttons. Its appeal is that it's always quickly available through gestures no matter what app you are currently in, instead of having to switch to the settings app.

Re:SB Settings only reason to JB anymore

[dmacleod808]

That is pretty much the only reason I jailbreak. It allows me to access the basic settings (Wifi on/off, Brightness controls, airplane mode, etc) without having to go through several hierarchical menus. Its just a quick swipe at the top status bar.

Re:SB Settings only reason to JB anymore

[jo_ham]

Yes, iOS should have this by default. The Android quick access method for (especially) turning the wifi on and off is sorely missing from iOS. Ok, it's not a million miles away in iOS, but it would be much more convenient to have it quickly accessible from the main screen since I use it so often.

I'm not going to make the laptop mistake again

[Overzeetop]

I have one, but I rarely use it. It's screen is much smaller than my desktop (which is 3 monitors, actually) and there is no way to get all of the data on the screen I use. Even the models of laptop which have "full size" keyboards and weigh close to 10 lbs don't have the extra function keys I use or a comfortable layout. And don't get me started on the touch pad vs mouse, esp for programs that need a third or scroll button combination move. Mine mostly just sits on a shelf, collecting dust.

Re:I'm not going to make the laptop mistake again

[thereitis]

If you don't care too much about mobility, this laptop has a full keyboard, large screen, proper cooling so the fan doesn't whine like a MacBook under load, and performs well:

http://ncix.com/products/?sku=59581&vpn=G73SW-3DE&manufacture=ASUS

If you don't care for touchpads, you can still attach a mouse.

I'm not going to make the desktop mistake again.

[Overzeetop]

I have one, but I rarely use it. I spend most of my time out of the office, and it's just not practical to carry a desktop around. It doesn't have built-in wifi or cell data, so even it I were to pack it up and take it with me, I often can't get online to access my network resources. Of course, having all that computational power is good, but for the work I do I never even notice that my netbook can't process as fast - It works as fast as I can type things in.

Shit you don't need

[Anonymous Coward]

Who cares if it has been jailbroken? Who needs that shit anyway?

I'm not going to make the smartphone mistake again

[Overzeetop]

I have to admit it, I got caught up in the hype and I bought a smartphone. The novelty wore off after a couple of days. Since then, it has sat in it's charger, almost completely unused. In fact, it's one of the worst purchases I've ever made.

Smartphones in general are rather pointless devices. They're far bulkier than my flip phone, so they're not very good on the go. They're much less comfortable to use than my netbook or my laptop, especially when I have to do a lot of typing. They're so vastly underpowered relative to even a netbook that they're not usable for anything computationally intensive. My Kindle is a much better e-book reader.

I learned the hard way that the usefulness of smartphones is purely a marketing creation. They look like they have potential, but in practice they're just the combination of the worst of every other type of computer or computing device.

What does jailbreaking an iPad do?

[grantspassalan]

Jailbreaking buys a geek the ability to run viruses, worms, trojans and other fun programs on their iPad. Other than that, what is it good for? What does it do for the average consumer? Answer: nothing.

Re:What does jailbreaking an iPad do?

[Anonymous Coward]

Answer: free apps?

Re:What does jailbreaking an iPad do?

[betterunixthanunix]

What does it do for the average consumer? Answer: nothing.

What does escaping for the USSR do for the average Soviet citizen? It is not like there was any censorship on the part of the Sovie^H^H^H^H^HApple:

https://www.pcworld.com/article/194387/apple_rejects_pulitzer_prize_winners_app.html

Re:What does jailbreaking an iPad do?

[dmacleod808]

Community written apps that do not have to go through the App store. Sure Cydia allows you to pirate apps if you know what you are doing, but there are great programs I love (iFile) which allow me to do things the machine was not intended to do

Re:What does jailbreaking an iPad do?

[Anonymous Coward]

The ability to run stolen pirated apps, of course.

Re:What does jailbreaking an iPad do?

[Tarlus]

The App Store offers many apps for free, and charges for others. Cydia offers many apps for free, and charges for others.

It's not the free software that makes jailbreaking attractive, but rather the ability to customize otherwise locked-down aspects of iOS and to evade Apple's regulations.

Re:What does jailbreaking an iPad do?

[multipartmixed]

Actually, it lets you pirated apps, instead of paying for them. Lots of consumers see that as a feature.

Re:What does jailbreaking an iPad do?

[grantspassalan]

Yes, unfortunately there are many thieves in this world. There are also many who want something for nothing, such as a government handout. Even super rich bankers and giant corporations get free taxpayer money these days.

Re:What does jailbreaking an iPad do?

[Anonymous Coward]

?Are you retarded?

And the cycle needlessly continues.

[InterruptDescriptorT]

It's terribly unfortunate that Apple has decided that iPad owners have no right to install whatever software the owner sees fit on his or her own tablet, thus necessitating (and encouraging) the jailbreaking community.

Mad props to these guys and their reverse engineering skills. Perhaps one day Apple will decide it's simply not worth the effort to keep up with the cat-and-mouse game of jailbreak/patch and just finally allow people to sideload apps and use their tablets however they want. Sadly, I don't foresee this happening.

Re:And the cycle needlessly continues.

[VortexCortex]

It's almost as if hardware wants to be free as much as information does...

Re:And the cycle needlessly continues.

[Nerdfest]

It will likely never be "Not worth it". Limiting what software can be installed and how it can be installed guarantees them 30% (for now) of _everything_ sold on the device. Opening it up would mean that there could be stores other than theirs. This is the same reason they don't allow languages or compilers to be installed. Out of curiosity, does anyone know if Apple will licence the female version of their dock connector for use in other phones, etc? There's tons of docks, etc, that lock people into Apple ... could a competitor licence their connector for use in a phone?

Re:And the cycle needlessly continues.

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps one day Apple will decide it's simply not worth the effort to keep up with the cat-and-mouse game of jailbreak/patch and just finally allow people to sideload apps and use their tablets however they want.

Filthy, shameful lies, spread by Android sympathizers and Stallmanists!
Our dedication to the emasculation of consumers and developers alike is absolute and unyielding. We will never rest as long as somewhere out there, someone may be enjoying, utilizing or holding an Apple device in some way that the holy Jobs, who died for our sins, did not intend.
Our guiding vision is the trinity of the perfect device, the perfect consumer, and Apple to watch over them both as its children.

Re:And the cycle needlessly continues.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's just that we don't want other people to put what *they* see fit on our iPads.

On the other hand, the jail breakers are doing a yeoman service in finding serious errors and goading apple into patching them promptly, before the real black hats use them.

Re:And the cycle needlessly continues.

[x3CDA84B]

It's terribly unfortunate that Apple has decided that iPad owners have no right to install whatever software the owner sees fit on his or her own tablet, thus necessitating (and encouraging) the jailbreaking community.

The Apple philosophy is that the iPad is an appliance which should "just work". Because of my background, the locked-down nature of the device tends to rub me the wrong way, but it really is the best way to guarantee that the end-user experience has that quality. Most people using these devices are not computer nerds. They are regular people, and they don't have the time or technical expertise (or both) to figure out if an app is going to screw up their iPad or not. You can't give non-nerds the unrestricted ability to install software from any source and expect anything other than disaster. It may take more or less time depending on how technical the non-nerd is, but it's basically inevitable, especially now that "malware developer" is a viable career.

The "walled garden" model is the computing device equivalent of hiring security staff to guard the door of a fancy club. It means you can't get in dressed like a punk and pushing a shopping cart full of Olde English 800, but part of the reason the other customers are at that club is for precisely that reason - the people who go there don't want to worry about that happening.

An iPad isn't supposed to be a 100% replacement for a laptop. It's somewhere in-between that and a phone. I treat my phone as a utility device, not a general-purpose computing workstation. Having it behave reliably and quickly is more important to me than having the ability to install a custom version of Tux Racer or whatever. I see my tablet in the same light. When I've tried using tablets other than an iPad, I've always gotten the impression that they're crippled laptops rather than devices that really took advantage of the form factor.

Re:And the cycle needlessly continues.

[Anonymous Coward]

It is a real shame, one of the jailbreak utilities that I use and primarily the only reason I jailbreak is F.Lux. This is a color temperature change extension to adjust the temperature of the screen color to match the lighting that you have during the day or during the night. When I was at the Apple Store three Apple employees asked me what was wrong my iPhone screen, after showing them the adjustments they all wanted to do that to their phone, they said that I should contact f.lux and have them get in touch with Apple to see if they can get their software installed on non-jailbroken phones. I really doubt that could happen though.

Re:And the cycle needlessly continues.

[Relayman]

You're kidding, right? Even if the iPad were wide open, people would want to jailbreak it. It's about the challenge as much as anything.

It's no different from people changing engines in their cars. There may be little practical reason to do so, but they do it anyway.

Re:And the cycle needlessly continues.

[MrMickS]

It's terribly unfortunate that Apple has decided that iPad owners have no right to install whatever software the owner sees fit on his or her own tablet, thus necessitating (and encouraging) the jailbreaking community.

Mad props to these guys and their reverse engineering skills. Perhaps one day Apple will decide it's simply not worth the effort to keep up with the cat-and-mouse game of jailbreak/patch and just finally allow people to sideload apps and use their tablets however they want. Sadly, I don't foresee this happening.

Perhaps you, and all like minded individuals, are missing the point a little. Most people don't develop their own software, most people don't compile software, basically most people don't care about this great burning issue that you waste energy on. The iOS App Store provides a "safe" source of software for people's devices which, for most people, is what they want.

I know I'll get modded Troll but that's ok, I've karma to burn here, but it amazes me how willingly people follow the IT leet herd and discount what ordinary people want. The success Apple has had with iOS isn't some sort of aberration caused by orbital mind control lasers or a massive fad and cult of popularity. If it was the former the only people objecting would be those wearing tinfoil hats, if the latter it would have fallen on its face by now. Its a shame that ignorance of the consumers wants and needs is praised on here, and its a sad reflection on our industry that for all the progress that we've had in the past 30 years that we still concentrate on what the elite want and not what is useful for everyone.

Re:And the cycle needlessly continues.

[Anonymous Coward]

The "walled garden" model is the computing device equivalent of hiring security staff to guard the door of a fancy club. It means you can't get in dressed like a punk and pushing a shopping cart full of Olde English 800, but part of the reason the other customers are at that club is for precisely that reason - the people who go there don't want to worry about that happening.

If we take this anaolgy a little further, you could liken Apple's approach to telling the gaurds that everyone must not be allowed to leave the club for their own safety. I don't mind there being a "walled garden", the issue is not letting people out who want to leave, which means hackers have to look for unguarded windows that people can climb out of.

Maybe Apple Intentionally "Allows" Jailbreaking

[mastershake82]

This is all speculation... but perhaps Apple purposely leaves the holes in the OS to allow this type of circumvention. Hear me out if in for a good conspiracy theory...

I imagine there might be three areas of pressure to keep the OS closed:
1. I'd speculate the main pressure on Apple to keep the OS closed is to prevent the piracy of app store apps to keep application authors happily creating apps for the device and not having to worry about the general population being able to copy and install them. More applications = more iPad sales to the general public.
2. Since many iOS devices are enabled on mobile network not owned by Apple, I'm sure the networks "encourage" Apple to do their best to limit the ability of a user to use the network in unauthorized ways, such as tethering when not paying for the plan.
3. A tertiary focus on keeping the OS closed to keep support costs down. Limiting options = easier troubleshooting.

However, there is a contingent of users who will not buy the device unless they can do whatever they want with it / jailbreak it. Whether it's to load non-approved software or to pirate App Store applications or circumvent carrier restrictions in the mobile network enabled models. As far as I know, Apple doesn't take a loss on hardware sold, so Apple still wants their money and market share, so they leave these exploits available for them. This gives Apple the plausible deniability to the App Store application authors and the mobile network carriers ("Sorry, these dang HACKERS keep breaking through our security... we're doing our darndest but they keep getting around it... but don't worry, it's a pretty complex process and the average user doesn't bother.") and allows them to completely cut off support to people who have voided their warranty by performing the jailbreak.

It's genius if you think about it.

Re:Maybe Apple Intentionally "Allows" Jailbreaking

[Microlith]

perhaps Apple purposely leaves the holes in the OS to allow this type of circumvention.

If that was true they wouldn't have fought against the EFF when the DMCA exemption was brought up. Had they won, you can guarantee they would have been firing DMCA takedowns at everyone and anyone who created a jailbreak.

Re:Maybe Apple Intentionally "Allows" Jailbreaking

[Relayman]

Your premise works as long as only a small fraction of devices are jailbroken. If the percentage gets too high (above 5%?) Apple will close a loophole and reduce the number below the desired threshold. This assumes that Apple monitors the number of jailbroken devices. If I were them, I sure would.

Or...

[betterunixthanunix]

....because they make lots of money from the App Store, and they can appease various friendly politicians by banning political cartoons, banning pornography, etc. Why would Apple want to give up that sort of control? It is not as if the company were founded as part of a movement to free computer users from that sort of control or anything like that...

Re:Or...

[jo_ham]

That might hold some water if they actually did make lots of money from the App Store - they don't. The App Store is in profit for Apple, but not by much. It is a tool that exists to sell iOS devices, where they make vastly more profit.

(And again, as has come up before on /. these figures come from Apple's financial statements and if you think they're lying or hiding the money or misrepresenting it to "boost" iOS profits due to "flagging iPhone 4S sales" then call the SEC and tell them so. Not that I'm accusing you of that, but it is an argument I have seen on here before).

The App Store is not the profit engine for Apple that people seem to think it is - possibly because they think the "massive" 30% cut is what's driving it. It is indirectly the source of the majority of their profits because it drives sales of iOS devices. The fact that is has also been very profitable for third party developers is a bonus, and helps to further drive its success (and thus, more sales of hardware).

Re:Or...

[betterunixthanunix]

They would still lose the App Store revenue if they were to allow people to install unapproved software, and they would still not be able to prevent people from install pornography or political cartoons on iPads etc. The purpose of the lock down is to control what users are able to do with their computers, so that those users do not do anything that runs counter to Apple's own interests. That could mean damaging Apple's public image by installing pornography breaking the family-friendly image of tablets that Apple has tried to push (and indeed, it would be much harder to push tablets in schools if people generally associated tablets with pornography), it could mean paying for software without also paying Apple, or it could mean installing software that undermines the interests of key media partners.

Re:Or...

[gtall]

No, the reason the App Store exists because they looked at the great unwashed masses of Windows users and realized their new devices would drown in that same cesspool of malware if they didn't find a way to lock it down.

Re:Or...

[betterunixthanunix]

Thus explaining their ban on political cartoons. Yeah, really combating malware with that one.

Re:Or...

[Black.Shuck]

I can't remember the figures off the top of my head, but I believe the App Store counts for about 1% of Apple's revenue stream.

And no, I don't think the company was founded in order to exert the controls you mention, and everything you've listed can be had by clicking on the "Safari" icon.

Re:Or...

[Microlith]

if they didn't find a way to lock it down.

The existence of the Apple Store does not necessitate lock down. The App Store's policies and existence itself inhibits malware as the vast majority of people would just use software distributed via the store. Denying end-users the ability to bypass those restrictions is PURELY a power grab.

Re:Or...

[CountBrass]

I see the lockdown as a positive thing. A lot of the internet is a cesspool and I'm pleased that most of it is kept out of my iPad. (I just wish there was a spam filter in Mail).

If you want the freedom to swim in that crap Safari won't stop you.

Apple's walled garden isn't a price you pay for using an iPad, I see it as a positive feature.

Re:Or...

[Microlith]

I see the lockdown as a positive thing.

I guess the Slashdot of old is dead. Pro-lockdown posters defending it, here of all places.

A lot of the internet is a cesspool and I'm pleased that most of it is kept out of my iPad.

Err, an option to bypass Apple-imposed lock down would not suddenly let the "internet" infest your iPad.

Apple's walled garden isn't a price you pay for using an iPad, I see it as a positive feature.

Being locked in a jail cell keeps you safe too, I hear.

Re:Or...

[Anonymous Coward]

resist.org (Warning NSFL - Not safe for life)

Imagine finding and app for these "political cartoons". Imagine it costs 5 dollars. Apple would receive profit from this transaction, and some might consider this an implied support for the subject of the app's contents.

I'm pretty sure apple thinks it's in it's best interest just to bar political cartoons rather than run the risk of being (perceived as) associated with something unsavory. You can get your political cartoons via safari easily enough.

Re:fp

[EchoRomeo]

Faceplant? I agree.

wouldnt it be nice

[FrozenFood]

to have a platform where the user can modify/upgrade/repair the device without the golden permission slip some pretentious cunt?

What Does It Mean?

[Anonymous Coward]

If I'm not mistaken, the new iPad runs the exact same software image as the older iPad 2. In fact, I think the iPhone also runs the same image. If that is correct, then the jailbreak for one is a jailbreak for all. Since iPad2 was jailbroken quite some time ago, why would we regard jailbreaking iPad3 as news?

That's like me saying that exploiting Windows XP on a new Gateway/Acer PC is different than the same exploit on a Dell Windows XP PC.

So, either I misunderstood and the IOS images are indeed different, or this is a non-story.

Re:What Does It Mean?

[Relayman]

The image is the same but was just updated from 5.0.1 to 5.1 so it's possible that previous loopholes were closed.

Surprisingly they are just too heavy

[Shivetya]

I have the second generation iPad, a Kindle Fire, and a Kindle Touch.

It amazes me how fast that iPad's weight starts to be noticed. Perhaps its the overall size of the tablet, however after experiencing the iPad I bought the Fire and then last week the Touch.

Get me a device the size of the touch but in color and you will have something... until then its an expensive toy just asking to be broken. I cannot count the number of posts on some popular Apple sites about people either dropping their iPad or their kids doing it all to see it break.

Re:Surprisingly they are just too heavy

[rthille]

I got the rubber-band "handle" (Padlette) for my iPad2, and it makes longer term use way better. But yeah, they are still too heavy to hold "up" for very long.

It's a conspiracy

[Anonymous Coward]

Clearly these jailbreaks are being perpetuated by those who have communist sympathies. Why else would they cause so much trouble for capitalists?

It's a joke, but it's pretty much spot on.

[radarradar]

I know that's supposed to be funny, but it's pretty much what i think of smartphones. You forgot to mention the rip-off data plan.

Re:It's a joke, but it's pretty much spot on.

[Overzeetop]

In reality, I could give up my tablet, probably give up my laptop, and maybe give up my desktop - but you can have my smartphone when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers. Despite the horrendously expensive plans they require, even with minimal data or phone usage (I use about 200 minutes and 50-60MB of cell data in a typical month), it is indepensable and the most efficient use of space I own.

It is my media player, holding most of my 8000 audio files and a couple of audio (and print) books. It's my emergency communication line - my iMessage account is only shared between me, my daughter, and my wife. It is my business office - I have my business line as a Google Voice number, giving me access to call from my work number and get transcribed emails anywhere. It's my general notebook, with Evernote keeping all the stupid slips of paper I used to keep in my wallet. It's my personal phone, with a separate number from my work one. It's my contact book. It's my GPS. It's my general answer machine (Google, not Siri). It's my calendar - no, it's my planner for the entire family. See, we each have a Google calendar - and with Pocket Informant I can bring in all three, plus the calendars for the three boards I sit on - all in their own color. When I find out I might have to have a meeting in the evening or on a weekend, I know instantly if there's a conflict. Just as great, when I put that oddball meeting in, my wife knows I'm going to be late for dinner, or that I won't be around Saturday afternoon.

There are so many things, and so much efficiency, wrapped up in that little device which - since I don't jabber on the phone much - will last a solid three days between charging if needed.

Could I live without my smartphone? Yes, but I would have to replace it with 3-4x the devices or items, and I would be far less efficient. It's not something I would do voluntarily.

Re:It's a joke, but it's pretty much spot on.

[Pieroxy]

I pay €15.99 per month for unlimited internet access (3GB fair use then throttled), unlimited calls into 25 countries (landlines and cell phones) and unlimited SMS (I think there is some kind of limit around the 5000 / month).

I'm not being ripped off. No by my standard. And I'm glad I can check my emails, RSS readers, watch a TV show, browse my pictures, listen to music, read a book and take a quick pic when I need it on one device. Much simpler. Much more convenient.

I can also check the theater program, look up a contact, check the traffic, play a game, organize my todo, call someone, get driving directions with being alerted of where the cops are, see where there is a gas station around me; check the weather forecast. I can send a SMS or receive a call. I can chat. Check my Facebook status or my latest tweets. I can SSH into my production servers or at home to check something, get a file, whatever. I can check my calendar.

An I can do so many more things.

So no, I think smartphones are a better experience than what we had before,

Re:It's a joke, but it's pretty much spot on.

[radarradar]

I have internet at work, i have internet at home. I can do without it during my commute. If i can, i travel unplugged. For calendar, navigating, memos, etc. i either use my head or paper. My dumbphone is more than enough for me.

Re:It's a joke, but it's pretty much spot on.

[radarradar]

You would be ripped off if you were in the US.

Re:It's a joke, but it's pretty much spot on.

[olahaye74]

+10000
PS: you forgot buying on eBay without fearing key-loggers and such, take geotagged photos, browse photo on TV via Apple TV (easier for your friend to watch them), stream you music to your AirPlay device like freebox (xDSL operator box with AirPlay capabilities) while staying on the sofa speaking with your friends....

PPS: I guess you mobile operator is freemobile ;-) . The same as the one used in my 3GS and my wife's Xperia ARC S (which will provide data to her "New iPad". Awesome :-)

Re:It's a joke, but it's pretty much spot on.

[olahaye74]

With the above mobile offer 15€99 per month, you can call (from France) US fixed phones AND CELL PHONES for free for unlimited time (no additional cost) :-)
http://mobile.free.fr/ (sorry, French only)

And Disneyworld has no liquor store or strip clubs

[Brannon]

There are lots of examples of walled gardens in the world--Apple provides those who want it a brief repose from the malware infested cesspool. The smug technoratti hate this because (a) they don't think that nontechnical people should be allowed to safely use technology without having to kiss their rings, and (b) they want hundreds of millions of nontechnical users to subsidize their desire to tinker.

Not a big Apple fan, but this has helped:

[Anonymous Coward]

The boss loves Apple's products, so he went ahead and bought his exec team iphones and ipads. The users said the devices are ok, but the ipads didn't seem to offer any real productivity value. They could use web apps and built in programs, but most of their business apps wouldn't work, and document management is flat out horrible on an ipad.

However, when I setup their devices with secure VPN and remote desktop capabilities, their eyes just lit up. Now they don't have to lug around a laptop, and they have their entire work desktop at their disposal. So now they have the best of both worlds; a shiny, cool device, and access to all of their production applications.

Heck, this works so well, I am considering one for myself...just not an iPad.

Re:I'm not going to make the smartphone mistake ag

[TehZorroness]

Well, if you don't want it any more, I'll take it. I got myself an n900 months and months ago and am still finding new uses for it. Ever since I've got it, I have been capable of keeping a telephone, calculator, browser, book reader, flashlight, media library/player, GPS navigation, TV remote and streaming set-top box in ONE pocket. Just be careful, because having so much useful stuff in one place is VERY appealing to thieves :(

Total Failure of Security

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't see how we can be expected to trust these people with our sensitive personal information, bank logins, and so on, when anyone with a modicum of computer knowledge that hack one of these things and gain access to every piece of information on it.

Re:And Disneyworld has no liquor store or strip cl

[Overzeetop]

Nice...I'm going to remember this one.

Technologically computer != conceptually computer

[bittersdotter]

On one level, saying "why has Apple locked down my iPad so I can't run whatever code I want?" is a bit like saying "why has Krups locked down my coffee maker so I can't use it as steam energy source to power my lights?" or "why has Bosch locked down my washing machine so I can't control the RPM of the centrifuge for analysing soil samples?". The iPad is a consumer device sold with the purpose of performing particular functions specified by the manufacturer who will support and guarantee it for that purpose. If you want to hack around with it in order to make it perform some other function, then that is (arguably) your prerogative. But it's not necessarily a failing of the manufacturer not to have facilitated your hacking about.

Now, the situation is admittedly a little more complex in the case of an iPad because, just like your DVD player, graphic calculator, electronic keyboard and various other devices, you might argue that what you have is *technologically* a multi-purpose computer. But that doesn't mean that *conceptually* it is intended to be a multi-purpose computer. The distinction is maybe just a bit more blurred with the iPad than with other devices.

Personally, I don't really see the grand purpose of jailbreaking an iPad. After spending a day battling with my PC over the graphics driver being incompatible with the bluetooth driver or the antivirus not being able to update because of too many flibbles in the patch server or the printer software exiting unexpectedly because I waited the incorrect number of milliseconds before pressing the "Scan" button or whatever other spuriosity one might encounter in the course of an average day's computing, I'm quite happy to sit on the sofa with my iPad at the end of the day and have an hour or two away from that nonsense. That's what it was designed for. I'm quite happy in the knowledge that if I really wanted a tablet for "hacking about" or doing something that the Apple-approved iPad software doesn't do, then I could have bought something else instead.[*]

And I suspect that most iPad users fall into that category.

Now, Apple probably don't care terribly much that jailbreaking exists, provided that-- just like using your washing machine as a centrifuge for your home-grown chemistry lab-- it clearly has the perception of being "a bit of unsupported hackery that the user makes a conscious decision to indulge in". If it became so mainstream that it prevented Apple from selling the iPad fundamentally as a "consumer ecosystem" as intended, then they might care more.

[*] P.S. I should say that I am also a programmer and have a few iOS apps in the App Store. But even as a developper, I don't find the idea of "going through a manufacturer-approved procedure to develop for a particular device" as being terribly terribly shocking-- especially when (unlike, say, console manufacturers) Apple actually make the procedure very accessible to small developers.

Re:And Disneyworld has no liquor store or strip cl

[Microlith]

Apple provides those who want it a brief repose from the malware infested cesspool.

And the bullshit Apple line continues to be spewed.

The smug technoratti hate this because (a) they don't think that nontechnical people should be allowed to safely use technology without having to kiss their rings, and (b) they want hundreds of millions of nontechnical users to subsidize their desire to tinker.

Ah yes, the classic pro-Apple, authoritarian "argument to the masses."

a) fails because Apple could keep the same restrictions on the market they have now, and would inconvenience no one. This is about giving people direct access to what they own.
b) allowing people to tinker costs virtually NOTHING

Yet Apple defenders repeatedly spout bad rationalizations, often taking the form of attacks on groups they dislike, "nerds" and "tinkerers," while successfully omitting any and all valid points.

False on both points.

[Brannon]

I've heard this before and it is crap--you claim that Apple could provide an easy option to use a non-curated means of loading native apps onto their iProducts and still maintain the same robustness and quality of user experience because people who don't want to won't exercise that capability. This attitude betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of how users interact with technology. To put it briefly, it fails the "Re: Re: Re: Here try this out!" attack. A nontechnical user receives an email that claims they can unlock a free copy of Angry Birds Extreme by following some simple instructions to enable non-curated apps--they click through all warning messages (because that is what Windows has trained them to do over the last 20 years) and boom--they are using a buggy malware infested piece of crap app. Now they need to run virus checkers, take their phone into the Best Buy guys, or maybe over to that nerdy kid next door. Oh wait, I can just download this other app that promises to clean up my phone and make it run faster.

Of course you'll say that the user got what he deserved, because fundamentally you think the point of technology is to make those who understand it feel righteously indignant towards those who don't. That is not the point of technology. People who design bridges don't intend that the bridge should work properly only for those with civil engineering degrees. People who design elevators don't feel offended when some obnoxious prick says it has a "dumbed down interface". Your microwave also doesn't allow you to side load apps onto it. Get the idea yet?

You know what? people who design computers (I'm one of them) also really want those computers to be safe and usable for nontechnical folks, as do people who design operating systems and most apps--these are people who have far more technical cred than most of the wannabes that hang out on slashdot. So who is it that is complaining about Apple? frankly it is a bunch of insecure bratty little script kiddies. Losers.

Re:False on both points.

[Microlith]

To put it briefly, it fails the "Re: Re: Re: Here try this out!" attack.

People have done far dumber things with even less provocation. But obviously, to protect the ignorant and foolish we need to deny everyone. That's the sum of your argument.

A nontechnical user receives an email that claims they can unlock a free copy of Angry Birds Extreme by following some simple instructions to enable non-curated apps--they click through all warning messages (because that is what Windows has trained them to do over the last 20 years) and boom--they are using a buggy malware infested piece of crap app. Now they need to run virus checkers, take their phone into the Best Buy guys, or maybe over to that nerdy kid next door. Oh wait, I can just download this other app that promises to clean up my phone and make it run faster.

Ah yes, because SOMETHING bad might happen we can't allow anyone at all any flexibility. Or perhaps the solution isn't to dumb everyone down to the least common denominator, but to give them a baseline of education on what to do and not to do. That'd solve far more problems than getting malware on their phone.

Of course you'll say that the user got what he deserved, because fundamentally you think the point of technology is to make those who understand it feel righteously indignant towards those who don't.

No one deserves to have their ignorance taken advantage of. No one deserves to be treated as though they were ignorant, either. And in supporting companies in their efforts to take away people's ability to do as they wish with their computer technology, you manage to do both.

People who design bridges don't intend that the bridge should work properly only for those with civil engineering degrees.

Idiotic analogy. Bridges serve a solitary purpose.

People who design elevators don't feel offended when some obnoxious prick says it has a "dumbed down interface".

Again, idiotic analogy. Elevators serve a single, solitary purpose.

Your microwave also doesn't allow you to side load apps onto it.

My microwave has a 4-bit microcontroller than can control power and has a handful of timers. I could make it do whatever I wanted, and publish how, with out Apple complaining that it should be a DMCA violation or having the thing fight me.

Get the idea yet?

Yes, your argument is absolutely terrible, and you are far worse than any "arrogant nerd" in that you approve of limiting what people can do because you feel they are idiots, rather than giving them the option of flexibility. You are a prime example of an "Apple Authoritarian."

>You know what? people who design computers (I'm one of them) also really want those computers to be safe and usable for nontechnical folks, as do people who design operating systems and most apps

And we can have that, without losing capability. Rather, we will have it denied to us by the arrogant who claim it is to "protect" us.

these are people who have far more technical cred than most of the wannabes that hang out on slashdot. So who is it that is complaining about Apple? frankly it is a bunch of insecure bratty little script kiddies. Losers.

Oh please, you've made it readily apparent that you're arrogant beyond words, and hold average people in even greater contempt than any poster on slashdot.

Good thing you aren't in government.

Re:False on both points.

[brantondaveperson]

...to protect the ignorant and foolish we need to deny everyone.

Well not deny everyone exactly. You can always go out and buy an android tablet and tinker to your hearts content.
PLUS it seems that jailbreaking iwhatsits isn't exactly challenging, and it certainly much easier than the 'hacking your microwave' example.

ps. Well I imagine that initial jailbreak is tricky enough, but they seem to package it up pretty nicely.

Re:False on both points.

[andrew3]

A nontechnical user receives an email that claims they can unlock a free copy of Angry Birds Extreme by following some simple instructions to enable non-curated apps--they click through all warning messages (because that is what Windows has trained them to do over the last 20 years) and boom--they are using a buggy malware infested piece of crap app.

Assuming a non-DRM'd Apple product would use similar "any file is executable" convention.

you claim that Apple could provide an easy option to use a non-curated means of loading native apps onto their iProducts

You seem to think that the freedom to tinker is somehow a trade-off for your own user experience. Good luck for when you live in a world like this.

Re:False on both points.

[Microlith]

Well not deny everyone exactly.

Deny everyone who buys their products, at the least, with Microsoft not far behind. The goal of this "sea change" in how computers are "supposed" to be viewed (as dictated by Apple and MS) really leads us back to Trusted Computing, something MS failed at but Apple managed to get people arguing FOR, even here on Slashdot.

You can always go out and buy an android tablet and tinker to your hearts content.

But for how much longer? Even Android devices are often locked down, if imperfectly.

it seems that jailbreaking iwhatsits isn't exactly challenging, and it certainly much easier than the 'hacking your microwave' example.

Jailbreaking and whatnot puts you on the wrong side of an EULA which is extremely unfair already.

Re:False on both points.

[Jeremi]

Idiotic analogy. Bridges serve a solitary purpose.

Actually, the analogy is apt. iPads also serve a solitary purpose. They are not meant to be general purpose computers.

If/when Apple starts placing the same restrictions on their Macintosh computers, then your side of the argument will be valid. But iPads are designed to be locked-down devices (like your Nintendo), not PCs or development/hacking platforms.

Re:False on both points.

[Microlith]

iPads also serve a solitary purpose.

This is belied by the wide and varying types of software available for the platform.

They are not meant to be general purpose computers.

This is a false assertion. What Apple is trying to do is make a general purpose computer that they control exclusvely.

If/when Apple starts placing the same restrictions on their Macintosh computers, then your side of the argument will be valid.

Please don't attempt to defray things by suggesting that it's negated by the presence of their lesser platform.

iPads are designed to be locked-down devices (like your Nintendo), not PCs or development/hacking platforms.

All iOS devices are locked down. And I suspect that going forward, the push from Apple and MS will be for all devices except enterprise-targeted hardware to be locked down.

Please don't be an apologist for their power grab.

Re:False on both points.

[MrMickS]

This is a false assertion. What Apple is trying to do is make a general purpose computer that they control exclusvely.

This is a subjective view based on a particularly slanted viewpoint. An alternative view is that Apple are trying to make technology accessible to non-technical people and preventing them from doing dumb things that ruins their experience.

Stop and think why they are having success with this approach for a minute. Its because the much vaunted freedom approach has failed those who aren't leet. You can shout and scream all you like but the alternative has been tried and found wanting.

Re:False on both points.

[Microlith]

This is a subjective view based on a particularly slanted viewpoint.

Really?

An alternative view is that Apple are trying to make technology accessible to non-technical people and preventing them from doing dumb things that ruins their experience.

So you too hold the average user in contempt?

Stop and think why they are having success with this approach for a minute.

Because they deliver a good end-user experience and make it quick and easy to locate good software? I haven't seen a single thing connecting it to denying the ability to load software from 3rd party locations.

Its because the much vaunted freedom approach has failed those who aren't leet.

Bullshit.

You can shout and scream all you like but the alternative has been tried and found wanting.

Again, bullshit.

Re:Technologically computer != conceptually comput

[Microlith]

On one level, saying "why has Apple locked down my iPad so I can't run whatever code I want?" is a bit like saying "why has Krups locked down my coffee maker so I can't use it as steam energy source to power my lights?" or "why has Bosch locked down my washing machine so I can't control the RPM of the centrifuge for analysing soil samples?".

This is a phenomenally stupid analogy.

Personally, I don't really see the grand purpose of jailbreaking an iPad.

Then surrender your PC and cease visiting Slashdot at once. Locked down devices like the iPad are the antithesis of everything that has led up to it.

After spending a day battling with my PC over the graphics driver being incompatible with the bluetooth driver or the antivirus not being able to update because of too many flibbles in the patch server or the printer software exiting unexpectedly because I waited the incorrect number of milliseconds before pressing the "Scan" button or whatever other spuriosity one might encounter in the course of an average day's computing, I'm quite happy to sit on the sofa with my iPad at the end of the day and have an hour or two away from that nonsense.

So it sounds like your problem lies with incompetent vendors. Also, because you had (made up) problems with your system doesn't mean that I have problems with mine, nor that arbitrary restrictions should be placed on everyone and anyone who uses a product.

I should say that I am also a programmer and have a few iOS apps in the App Store.

So you're terribly biased.

But even as a developper, I don't find the idea of "going through a manufacturer-approved procedure to develop for a particular device" as being terribly terribly shocking-- especially when (unlike, say, console manufacturers) Apple actually make the procedure very accessible to small developers.

But what about open source and free software developers, who don't want to pay someone $100 and beg them permission to make their software available? What about the end user that wants to use some software that Apple, for whatever totally arbitrary reason, has deemed unworthy?

Re:I'm not going to make the smartphone mistake ag

[beanyk]

You may have to read the grandfather post.

Dev-Team...

[xded]

Historically, the biggest group releasing jailbreaks has been the Dev-Team (guess what? this is not linked on TFS...). But I'd rather say that today security holes are mostly discovered by individuals (some of their twitter accounts are listed on Dev-Team's page) that usually coordinate on the jailbreaks test and release with the original Dev-Team members (MuscleNerd & c.). Along the way tho there were other individuals (like George "Geohot" Hotz and others I can't recall right now) that didn't like the ultra-careful Dev-Team approach on exploits release and went their own way, releasing sometimes unreliable hacks or, in any case, revealing the hole before a major firmware release from Apple or after a minor one. However these days I think everyone understood that the cat and mouse chase is getting dangerous, everyone is a bit more cautious and the hacks are relased only when it's worth it and when they are really proven to be stable for release on the wide range of devices/OS versions.

Not appropriate

[517714]

While three ways may seem appropriate, we have a different paradigm and the ways must be "new" in order to be appropriate.

Re:New Ipad

[Daniel Phillips]

Most stupid name for a product ever. Of course, Apple fans will never admit it. Most probably angrily deny it. But even the most rabid fan only needs to wait a couple of months for the stupidity of this marketing strategy to really sink in. Steve Jobs, for all his flaws, never would have stepped in it this way. It is Apple execs trying to fill Steve Jobs' oversized shoes by coming up with something "cool". Like not having a product name. Wow. Impending customer confusion. Must be cool.

Oh look, there are Apple cultists with mod points.

Re:Technologically computer != conceptually comput

[hyades1]

When I buy something, it becomes mine. What I do with it is my business.

Re:I'm not going to make the smartphone mistake ag

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is this modded funny? The only reasons I would ever want a smartphone is so I didn't have to carry a separate music player with me or I could go on Wikipedia when I'm curious about something. After trying out the hideous music players on the android market (combined with a lack of memory on a phone), the first reason is void and I can use wikipedia (slowly) on my 3 year old dumb phone (the type that comes free with a plan.)

I also own a samsung galaxy tablet, and it rarely gets any use for the same reasons.

Of course there are some people that can benefit from using smartphones, tablets etc. but for most people it's just a way to show off social status.

Re:I'm not going to make the smartphone mistake ag

[Anonymous Coward]

more for us!

Re:fp

[mug funky]

facepalm.jpg

The only one restricting freedom here is you.

[Brannon]

Have you ever seen an Apple fan who argued that tinker-friendly options shouldn't exist? Never. Not one single one that I have ever seen. If your argument is that tinker-free alternatives can't survive without a subsidy by Apple; well, I think that is farfetched, but at least that would be a cogent argument. I would offer as an example the existence of certified vs. experimental aircraft--they coexist under different regulatory rules, the latter allowing for a vibrant tinkering community. That's how I see the consumer mobile tablet/phone market developing.

Put another way, if you don't like Disneyworld then don't go there--but it is obnoxious to argue that it shouldn't exist just because you don't like it. There are so many examples of walled gardens that it is hard to believe you don't understand this very basic concept.

I stand by my assertion that you are a nerd wannabe--hacking away on some Ruby on Rails crap. No true engineer has such an open disgust for nontechnical users.

Re:The only one restricting freedom here is you.

[Microlith]

Took you long enough to muster up a response, I see.

The only one restricting freedom here is you.

Oh, I can't wait to see how you rationalize this.

Have you ever seen an Apple fan who argued that tinker-friendly options shouldn't exist?

Quite often. Every time they scream at me that I don't "need" an unlocked device because there's something available on the App Store. Every time they demand I justify why I should have the ability to do whatever I want with my property.

If your argument is that tinker-free alternatives can't survive without a subsidy by Apple; well, I think that is farfetched, but at least that would be a cogent argument.

No, my argument is that Apple, and eventually MS, are positioning these locked down platforms to displace the relatively open platforms that we've had. Leveraging their mass to change the perception of computing to something that is entirely corporate-controlled. When I got into computing, it wasn't via hardware that restricted me and controlled what I wanted to do. The system let me get up and going with whatever tools I wanted to use. I suspect we'll see less of that as more people grow up with only restricted, crippled environments like the iPad to work with.

I would offer as an example the existence of certified vs. experimental aircraft--they coexist under different regulatory rules, the latter allowing for a vibrant tinkering community.

It is significantly harder, shockingly, to produce consumer electronics on the scale of modern tablets and smartphones in small volume. Harder than producing an experimental airplane kit, which tend to be the purview of the already quite rich.

if you don't like Disneyworld then don't go there--but it is obnoxious to argue that it shouldn't exist just because you don't like it.

Sorry, I have not once suggested that the iPad or App Store should not exist. Please don't stuff words in my mouth.

There are so many examples of walled gardens that it is hard to believe you don't understand this very basic concept.

Point out one walled garden that parallels Apple's? And please don't say "Disneyworld," it's an irrelevant analogy.

stand by my assertion that you are a nerd wannabe--hacking away on some Ruby on Rails crap.

Don't make assertions you can't possibly back up. It shows how much of an arrogant ass you are.

No true engineer has such an open disgust for nontechnical users.

You are the greatest of hypocrites in making this statement, if you are in fact an engineer. You're also projecting, badly.

C.I.A.

[CountBrass]

Security covers Confidentiality, Integrity and Availability.

So turning off your computer would increase C but at the expense of I (the data becomes out of date) and A.

Slashdot.

[CountBrass]

"Widely reported here in Slashdot" so it must be true?

Slashdot is a rumour, opinion and gossip site with the odd poster who will provide a link to some other source which may or may not be authoritative.

Re:Technologically computer != conceptually comput

[bittersdotter]

On one level, saying "why has Apple locked down my iPad so I can't run whatever code I want?" is a bit like saying "why has Krups locked down my coffee maker so I can't use it as steam energy source to power my lights?" or "why has Bosch locked down my washing machine so I can't control the RPM of the centrifuge for analysing soil samples?".

This is a phenomenally stupid analogy.

It's a stupid analogy if you see an iPad as being "a normal multi-purpose computer". And I'm saying that's not how Apple intends it to be conceptualised.

Then surrender your PC and cease visiting Slashdot at once. Locked down devices like the iPad are the antithesis of everything that has led up to it.

But that's the thing-- I don't see an iPad as being in the same category as a PC (or at least, I don't think that's the way Apple is selling/inviting its core customer base to conceptualise it).

So you're terribly biased.

Yes :) But my point was that I'm a developer, so not adverse to hacking around with things per se. But if I chose to go down a non-standard route of development/deployment of my apps, I don't see it as a failing of Apple not to support that and accept that I would then be "on my own".

But what about open source and free software developers, who don't want to pay someone $100 and beg them permission to make their software available?

Then the iOS platform isn't designed for them. There are other platforms that are more suited to that model of development.

What about the end user that wants to use some software that Apple, for whatever totally arbitrary reason, has deemed unworthy?

Again, I completely understand that some people will want that type of open device. What I don't personally share is the belligerence to spend energy on circumventing the iPad's controls rather than just buying a different, more open device in that case.

Re:I'm not going to make the smartphone mistake ag

[MistrBlank]

Oh yeah, you are the market, I forgot.

My iPhone only replaced:
-an iPod for music playing
-my point and shoot camera
-my "flip-phone"
-my GPS

And on top of that I've now got:
- a flashlight(the LED on the back is ridiculously handy, even if it's isn't it's purpose)
- access to online searches instantly
- movies, via netflix, ANYWHERE
- access to my email ANYWHERE
- Entertainment via games, I stopped carrying portable game systems.
- Access to full color pictures to show to people at any time without killing trees.
- A calendar and reminder/todo list, something I tried with a palm pilot years ago, but abandoned because it was just another device to carry that I didn't want.

And it comfortably slides into my pocket without looking like I'm carrying a baby on my side or sporting a massive tumor off of my hip. The post is marked funny, I don't find anything funny about it (so if it was your goal, you failed). Maybe you failed to realize it isn't a replacement for a computing device, it's a supplement.

Re:Technologically computer != conceptually comput

[Microlith]

It's a stupid analogy if you see an iPad as being "a normal multi-purpose computer".

And it is, only Apple wants to dictate what those purposes are.

And I'm saying that's not how Apple intends it to be conceptualised.

Of course they don't, that would interfere with their business model.

But that's the thing-- I don't see an iPad as being in the same category as a PC (or at least, I don't think that's the way Apple is selling/inviting its core customer base to conceptualise it).

You don't because you've bought the Apple pablum. Apple definitely intends to replace the PC for most people with the iPad.

But if I chose to go down a non-standard route of development/deployment of my apps, I don't see it as a failing of Apple not to support that and accept that I would then be "on my own".

It'd be one thing if Apple let you do it and simply didn't support you. Instead, they actively interfere to try and prevent you from going off "on your own."

Again, I completely understand that some people will want that type of open device. What I don't personally share is the belligerence to spend energy on circumventing the iPad's controls rather than just buying a different, more open device in that case.

The issue is that Apple is the 800lb gorilla in the market, and can have an impact on the market beyond just their user base. Both MS and Apple are pushing locked down devices to the exclusion of more open devices, and are aggressively attacking the more open option in an effort to drive it out of the market entirely. I hesitate to think of what will come if they succeed in turning the mobile space into a mirror image of the stagnant desktop space, only with more lock down to keep end-users under control.

Re:Technologically computer != conceptually comput

[bittersdotter]

And I'm saying that's not how Apple intends it to be conceptualised.

Of course they don't, that would interfere with their business model.

Yes. But it's arguably a business model that works because there's an appetite for that model among some percentage of consumers.

Apple definitely intends to replace the PC for most people with the iPad.

I don't know if that's exactly true or not. What is undeniably true is that they're advocating the notion that the iPad/iPhone is no longer a "secondary" device to the PC. Maybe that amounts to almost the same thing. But... I still say, so what? Maybe for most people, the iPad is the type of device that is actually more suited to them than a traditional PC. For me as a developer, devices like the iPad will inevitably be "secondary" devices and I will probably always need a genuinely general-purpose computer. But I accept that I'm probably not most people.

The issue is that Apple is the 800lb gorilla in the market, and can have an impact on the market beyond just their user base. Both MS and Apple are pushing locked down devices to the exclusion of more open devices, and are aggressively attacking the more open option in an effort to drive it out of the market entirely.

Well, inasmuch as they're actually sharing the same marketplace, I assume that Apple, MS and all other manufacturers are aggressively striving to drive each other out of that market, whether their respective devices are open or not. I'm not sure that Apple and MS are specifically colluding just to wipe out open devices or that they could even do so if there is demand for open devices. I don't quite share your vision of doom and gloom on this-- if you want a device to run an open source operating system and completely free and open software, I don't see such devices about to disappear. But that device may not be an iPad or your washing machine.