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Ask Slashdot: Shortcuts To a High Tech House

First time accepted submitter phaedrus9779 writes "I'm a recently married man about to take on the next big adventure: home ownership! I came across a great house in a great community but I need a little bit extra: a high tech house. The problem: money, I'm on a budget. I'd love to have home theaters, super high tech weather stations and iPads seamlessly installed in all the walls — but this just isn't possible. So my question to the Slashdot community is: how can I build a high tech house that will be the envy of my friends, provide lots of useful gadgets, and not break the bank? Also, as always, the cooler the better!"

281 comments

  1. Aren't you supposed to ... by Tim+Ward · · Score: 3, Funny

    ... grow out of thinking that stuff is important when you get married?

    1. Re:Aren't you supposed to ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Depends who you marry?

    2. Re:Aren't you supposed to ... by oztiks · · Score: 4, Funny

      From experience its just the opposite.

      From the lack of sex, you find that you spend most of your time secluded in your shed. As such you have one of two choices

      a) accrue a large collection of adult material
      b) find a hobby ...

      I went with hobby.

    3. Re:Aren't you supposed to ... by Tom · · Score: 5, Informative

      c) find a better wife

      Seriously, I've never understood all the horror stories, not before and not after my own marriage.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    4. Re:Aren't you supposed to ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have children and you will consider high tech as secondary as a knife to a chicken

    5. Re:Aren't you supposed to ... by ae1294 · · Score: 0

      Install a Rape Dungeon...

    6. Re:Aren't you supposed to ... by AngryDeuce · · Score: 4, Funny

      What if your hobby is accruing a large collection of adult material?

    7. Re:Aren't you supposed to ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or a Chuck E. Cheese.

      Yeah, I know, six of one, half-a-dozen of another...

    8. Re:Aren't you supposed to ... by misexistentialist · · Score: 4, Funny

      But in that case the old wife gets your house and shed...

    9. Re:Aren't you supposed to ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There aren't that many nymphomaniacs unfortunately. At least I couldn't find one.

    10. Re:Aren't you supposed to ... by Nemyst · · Score: 1

      You're assuming /. readers have much of a choice.

    11. Re:Aren't you supposed to ... by Auroch · · Score: 2

      c) find a better wife

      Seriously, I've never understood all the horror stories, not before and not after my own marriage.

      You're obviously not married, with such a odd comment and low UUID.

      --
      Quartz Extreme and Core Image. Are there any other real reasons to spend all that money on generic hardware?
    12. Re:Aren't you supposed to ... by Tom · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Seriously?

      Women love sex as much as men do. They don't advertise it as much, because while men who boast about sex are considered studs, women who do are considered sluts. So they keep it to themselves and their best friends.

      So if a woman doesn't want to have sex with you, chances are that it's not about the sex, it's about you.

      .
      .
      .

      Now that it's sunk in a bit, I should add that most of the "about you" reasons are no cause for alarm, they're along the lines of "you aren't her current boyfriend and she's faithful". But if you in fact are her current boyfriend, and she doesn't want to have sex, then there is more likely something wrong with you then her.

      Pro hint: Go and ask her what it is. As soon as you stop the blame game, conversation is a marvelous tool of solving puzzling questions like that. If she doesn't trust you with an honest answer, then sex is the least of your worries, trust and honesty are the bigger issues in your relationship, in which case I refer back to my original advise.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    13. Re:Aren't you supposed to ... by oztiks · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yes, married life differs of course. Infact I find being married I get "hit on" by more woman than when I was single and if you're a guy whose in a position of power and married in march the "girls with daddy issues" in herds.

      Fact remains, you're married that spark in the relationship doesn't seem all that important anyway and as for the "sluts" not only am I open with me wife about their advances so both of us can have a little chuckle but they don't hold any interest for myself either. Likewise anybody hits on her she isn't afraid of sharing it with me.

    14. Re:Aren't you supposed to ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about during?

    15. Re:Aren't you supposed to ... by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      I went with hobby.

      Collecting adult material?

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
    16. Re:Aren't you supposed to ... by Tom · · Score: 1

      Language differences. I didn't mean before wedding day and after divorce, I meant before getting married and after having married, i.e. during is very much included.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    17. Re:Aren't you supposed to ... by sdnoob · · Score: 1

      plus if you have to mention that you're on a budget (as the poster did), then you cant really afford the gadgets and toys the poster really wants.

      if you want this new marriage to succeed. every last penny goes to keeping HER happy.. not you. sorry bud.

    18. Re:Aren't you supposed to ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fun fact for ya: it's not always about what the man did wrong. Sometimes your signifigant other just doesnt want to have sex and you do. It's a mind blower, I know, but it happens ... Even when the sex is good between you. It's not about trust issues. Many things can cause disintrest :
        horomone changes due to medical issues / hysterectomy
        depression / self-esteem issues / weight gain
        she didn't shave her legs??!( yes really )
        sleep schedules are different / sleep is more important than sex to her
        she just isn't horny and doesnt really care to be put in the mood.
        different natural desire times ( shes early mid-day, your late night )

    19. Re:Aren't you supposed to ... by Tom · · Score: 1

      Sometimes your signifigant other just doesnt want to have sex and you do.

      True, but not important in this context as we were not talking about single individual events, but long-term trends. And if you never get any sex because your sleep schedules are different, I dare say that's a pretext.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    20. Re:Aren't you supposed to ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Men love chocolate as much as women do, but that doesn't mean men want as much chocolate as women do.

      Women typically don't have the same sex drive as typical men (although some do).

      Perhaps your wife has an above-average sex drive, or perhaps you have an unusually low sex drive and your wife is average? It's a dick move to go from a sweeping generalization like this to saying "there must be something wrong with you". Nice that you're happy but not nice that you're so self-righteous because of it.

      Pro hint? Communication is Relationships 101, mate. Being happily married doesn't make you a pro, except about that one woman you're in love with. Glad for you, but premature generalization is the root of all bigotry.

    21. Re:Aren't you supposed to ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I went with both and made my hobby accruing a large collection of adult material.

    22. Re:Aren't you supposed to ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously?

      Women love sex as much as men do. They don't advertise it as much, because while men who boast about sex are considered studs, women who do are considered sluts. So they keep it to themselves and their best friends.

      So if a woman doesn't want to have sex with you, chances are that it's not about the sex, it's about you.

      .
      . .

      Now that it's sunk in a bit, I should add that most of the "about you" reasons are no cause for alarm, they're along the lines of "you aren't her current boyfriend and she's faithful". But if you in fact are her current boyfriend, and she doesn't want to have sex, then there is more likely something wrong with you then her.

      Pro hint: Go and ask her what it is. As soon as you stop the blame game, conversation is a marvelous tool of solving puzzling questions like that. If she doesn't trust you with an honest answer, then sex is the least of your worries, trust and honesty are the bigger issues in your relationship, in which case I refer back to my original advise.

      Better check your passwords, I think your wife hacked your account.

    23. Re:Aren't you supposed to ... by Rolgar · · Score: 1

      Men don't have a cycle. Our reproductive impulse that drives our libido is constantly on high. We are often driven by our desire to have sex primarily for the biological pleasure that it brings.

      For a woman, it's much different. Near ovulation, a woman's libido is on high, and can be like teenage boys in their desire for sex. The same woman outside of her fertile time is much less likely to be interested, although different women will have different levels of disinterest. Some will be willing to engage in sex for the fun of it and may even initiate, others only will respond to sexual overtures to humor their partner, and others not at all. Some women are more interested not in the biological pleasure, but the emotional connection. If this need is not met, then they will find the biological bit unfulfilling, and they will grow bored and disinterested (kind of the converse of a woman that wants to talk about her day/shopping/gossip/what bff or sis or mom had to say, but isn't interested in listening to your interests, until you stop getting interested in conversations because one side feels like their need is unfulfilled while the other continues to enjoy what they get).

      Pregnancy complicates things. Some woman want sex as much as they can have it, others have a low libido during this time.

      Hormonal contraceptives work over half of the time by shutting down ovulation, basically turning her into a pregnant woman hormonally. At least 30% of women on the pill have low libido all the time.

      Some of this fits the bill with my wife. During fertile times, she's very interested, such that she has a hard time keeping her hands to herself. Any other time, it's almost always that I have to initiate, with her deciding based on her 'guilt meter' (how long it's been) and other considerations. When she's pregnant or postpartum, she's always in low libido mode. Sometimes we're looking at 10-15 between sex, and other times we might end up doing it 2-3 times a week. If we do more than a week without sex, she will sometimes get into the mood without having a biological impetus, but it's pretty rare.

    24. Re:Aren't you supposed to ... by Tom · · Score: 2

      Women typically don't have the same sex drive as typical men (although some do).

      Pffft. Sex drive varies wildly between humans, no matter what gender. I know plenty of women who can't get enough as well as women who aren't all that much into it - and the same for men. Of course if two people from the opposite ends meet, that's not going to go too well. Same as any other major drive.

      Yeah, I'm making generalizations. This is /. and not some personal coaching session. :-)

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  2. Nest & Tankless heater by Tronster · · Score: 5, Informative

    Two items I can recommend that cost a bit upfront but do indeed save money down the road:
    - Nest Thermostat ( http://www.nest.com/ )
    - Tankless water heater

    A good tankless water heater will cost a few K (with installation, etc...) so perhaps just start with the Nest. There is currently a waiting list for them, but I was able to get mine about 3 months after waiting. It looks cool, and if used properly, will continually save you money over the life of the house.

    1. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by ari_j · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What I've read about them says that tankless water heaters wear out faster than the traditional kind with a tank, and that the replacement cost eclipses any energy savings in using one. They are also reportedly less convenient and comfortable (due to a cold water "sandwich" effect as they send water down the line and attempt to sense how much heat to apply to the next water coming through). If those articles and reviews are wrong, I have yet to find any reports of it.

      For cool water heaters, look at a point-of-use water heater for sinks to get instant hot water, and locate the main water heater directly underneath or next to your shower plumbing. Those will actually improve your lifestyle and save water.

      But at the very least, take Tronster's advice and install technology that serves a purpose in your house. If you're on a tight budget, wasting money on things to impress your friends is probably unwise (read: it's beyond stupid).

    2. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whole house tankless water heaters MAY save you money it depends on your usage, your location and the temperature of your incoming supply. The actual act of a tankless water heater heating the water is very inefficient and there is a lot of waste heat. The small under-counter electric are a little better but then you have to put one by every faucet, and the cheaper ones often don't have the capacity to handle a washing machine or dishwasher. If you(everyone in the house) are frequently gone for days at a time, tankless is great. Otherwise a well insulated powervent tank system may have a much cheaper lifetime total cost of ownership.

    3. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Keep in mind that "used properly" is code for "has limitations". In particular, you have to use hot water slowly - no rapid filling of bathtubs or buckets, or hot water pressure wash.
      You'll also likely be at the mercy of power outages - even short ones.

      Another often recommended "upgrade" for homeowners are submersible well pumps. I strongly recommend against them, because the water pressure will vary with the water level (no more Kramer style showers), and when they break, they cost a boatload more money to fix. They're great - for those who sell them.

      A heat pump, on the other hand, is usually a good investment. And gas-filled non-sliding windows.

    4. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by Keruo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I don't like the idea of tankless water heaters at all. There are plenty of things you can do to reduce water heating costs.
      If the house is in a windy place, think about getting a small wind mill, something you can easily place on your property, (think something like this)
      Add directly attached heating element to the water tank and add temperature control relay to switch off the current when the water temperature in tank reaches desired level.
      Second grid-connected heating element could be low-level triggered, if you're using up water faster than your wind power can heat up, the more expensive heating method kicks in and keeps your reservoir going.

      --
      There are no atheists when recovering from tape backup.
    5. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by vlm · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What I've read about them says that tankless water heaters wear out faster than the traditional kind with a tank

      LOL. I know its April 1st, but for those who don't get it, try to find a tank guaranteed by mfgr longer than 6 years or a tankless with a guarantee shorter than 20 years. The guy's humor is in stating the exact opposite of reality.

      There is some truth that a decade or so ago when I got a tankless, tanks were for residential and were value engineered to fail rapidly to maximize profit via maximum lifetime cost, and tankless were for industrial apps (think laundromat or health club showers) so they were engineered to meet the business accounting goal of minimum lifetime cost. It may be that 2012 residential-grade tankless heaters are now value engineered and built in China such that they'll only operate for a couple years before requiring replacement... If they aren't, the retailers are missing out on a huge opportunity to screw their customers, and they never miss a chance to do that, at least not for long, so buyer beware. But at least in years past, tank = flood the basement twice per decade, and tankless = buy roughly once per human generation.

      Another way I've heard it phrased is if you go tank, then you need to pick a basement floor covering that tolerates flooding multiple times before the floor material is replaced, but if you go tankless, then you will replace the basement floor covering a couple times before the heater is replaced. It has a big impact on decor... Pergo is legendary for being perhaps the least flooding tolerant floor covering, so you can really only go Pergo if you have a tankless, and/or if you have a tank you pretty much need tile to eliminate the water damage issue.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    6. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by swalve · · Score: 2

      I put a tankless in for my mom a couple years ago, and it doesn't have any of those problems. It senses the water flow and adjusts (something) to make sure the water output is the right temperature. From handwashing to showering, the temperature is rock solid.

      But yes, point of use is a neat idea in some cases- her house is configured such that the kitchen is a long way away from the bathrooms, and that's where the tankless is located. So it takes a while for the hot water to make its way through the pipe. A $200 point of use electric heater would be great for that, but she wasn't interested.

    7. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by swalve · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If you are ripping out a perfectly good tank heater to put in a tankless, then it probably doesn't make sense. But if it is time to replace anyway, it doesn't cost all that much more. The big benefit is not having to keep a giant tank of water at temperature for many hours a day. Every time your water heater fires up when you aren't using water, it is money out the chimney. Plus, their burners are generally more efficient at turning gas into hot water. The exhaust coming out of the one I installed is not much warmer than room temperature. And they are not nearly as complicated as installing homemade windmills...

    8. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by swalve · · Score: 2

      Not any more. With the direct vent or condensing burners they use now, the burner is just as efficient as a regular tank type heater.

    9. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by Tronster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I had mine installed last year (4/13/2011) because my traditional water heater was cracking and had started a leak. The plumber recommended it; said while they are relatively new to (residential) US, they have been used for awhile in Europe. I did do-diligence with Google and had it put in. The brand is: Noritz ( http://www.noritz.com/ )

      So 1 year past its running well; if there is a follow up thread 4+ years down the road, I'll let you know how it's handling.

      I haven't had a cold water sandwich effect. Only drawback is that it takes about 25 seconds for hot water to start coming out of the faucet (vs 10 seconds with the tank). Advantages:
      - Mounted on wall (above washer/dryer) in basement; just gained about 3'x3' space back where my old huge tank was sitting
      - I have seen a lower gas/electric bill since installed
      - Should I choose; I can take a ridiculously long hot shower (of course always doing this would negate energy savings)

    10. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by swalve · · Score: 1

      The "has limitations" is the same for both. You choose a unit that has a burner that will provide the desired temperature water under the usage scenarios envisioned. A tankless just has one less variable. With a tank heater, you can fill that hot tub, as long as the hot tub is 1/2 the size of your hot water tank, but then you get no hot water until the tank has recovered. With a tankless, it will give you a temperature rise versus water flow. Just size it correctly and you are good to go.

    11. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by anotherzeb · · Score: 2

      Agree with keeping the tank if possible - especially if your geekery is likely to extend to environmentally friendly (or keeping the bills down) and you have roof space and / or garden for solar thermal water heating - the warm water will need a nicely insulated tank to stay warm and a bunch of solar thermal tubes (or a self engineered system for more geek points) could be just as good a talking point as living on the bridge of the Starship Enterprise

      --
      Good luck sometimes arrives disguised as bad
    12. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by vlm · · Score: 1

      I don't like the idea of tankless water heaters at all.

      Can you provide a more detailed engineering assessment? Or is it something like you believe you speak for the flying spaghetti monster in stating its a religious abomination, or ...?

      You pay money to get the capital equipment such that you dump in water and energy and out squirts hot water. Tankless is just a better deal financially than tank. I'm not really seeing the facebook like button effect at all.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    13. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An alternate to a tankless water heater is one that is combined with a pre-heated reservoir tank. The water in that tank is warmed using a solar panel (pump powered by a small solar panel) raising the temperature from around 55degress(as supplied by the water main) to between 80 to 110 depending on your climate ( this would not work in winter in Minnesota, but works well in a warmer climate). Your tankless water heater then only has to do part of the work to raise the temp to 120 or so for bathing, reducing energy use and making it last longer.

      This works if you have extra space for both an insulated tank and a roof with southern exposure for the panel.

    14. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by vlm · · Score: 1

      no rapid filling of bathtubs or buckets, or hot water pressure wash.

      I call shenanigans on this one as I have seen no such effect and can't even imagine it happening in the marketplace for sound financial reasons.

      Your plumber, operating on a sales commission, will try to figure out how much money he can extract from you, and then extract it. He was trying to convince me that I need to output water hot enough for instant 3rd degree burns, at full blast, simultaneously out both showers, the bathroom sink, the kitchen sink, the dishwaster, the clothes washer, and the utility sink, all while the input water is at 33 degrees. There are not enough people in my household to operate all those valves at once. Um, no sorry, you're installing something a little more reasonable. Especially since the whole point of installing the tankless was to be able to turn the temperature down below scalding level while not running out of hot water in the shower. This has NOT been an issue in actual operation.

      The scaling rate of price for BTU of heating seems to be somewhat quadratic, certainly not slightly sub-linear like you'd intuitively guess based on construction. So half the BTUs is a hell of a lot less than half the price. At least thats how it was years ago.

      You'll also likely be at the mercy of power outages - even short ones.

      Same problem for tank w/ direct vent. I suppose it depends where you live. Where I live the only reason the power ever goes out is near-tornado conditions... you're supposed to be cowering in the basement under the stairs then, not enjoying yourself in the shower. The power requirement is ridiculously low to run the electronics and fan, so for 7 years now I've been planning on buying a very large computer UPS, but the darn power never is out long enough to make the upfront expense worth it, not to mention having to replace the UPS batteries every 2 years or whatever. I do have a 50 foot (rather expensive) extension cord coiled up next to it that I can run over to the basement server UPS, but I've never had to try it.

      Its kind of like arguing you shouldn't install a furnace or air conditioner because you'll be at the mercy of power outages...

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    15. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tankless is just a better deal financially than tank

      What a fine engineering assessment. Please excuse me while I go laugh myself to sleep.

    16. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I do not know about the warranty on tankless, but having just replaced a gas water heater that was nine years old (mfg date on label), Home Depot sells GE gas water heaters (manufactured by Rheem in Mexico) that offer a six, nine, or twelve year warranty (the price delta is about 30% to go from the 6 year to the 12 year).

      Tank life can be extended by draining the tank a few times each year and every five years or so,replacing the anode rod in the tank (hard part about that is obtaining a replacement).

      As for flooding, putting a plastic drain pan underneath a replacement water heater and adding a moisture alarm that goes off when the tank starts to leak, pretty well eliminates the chance of a catastrophic failure that would destroy a floor.

      Water heaters are also either located in the garage, or in a basement with a floor drain so the damage from flooding is minimal in those cases.

    17. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by Keruo · · Score: 1

      I don't like the idea of tankless water heaters at all.

      Can you provide a more detailed engineering assessment?

      That is a personal opinion, but I'm thinking of the power grid here.
      When you're using electric equipment to heat water directly during usage, you're causing massive drain spikes to the network at mornings and at evenings depending on how people take showers.(doesn't apply to gas utilities, but I'm assuming electrical here)
      Properly insulated tank can be heated during off-peak hours(the electricity might be cheaper) or using solar/wind, tankless rules those options out.

      It's just a question of "do you have room to place that massive water tank?" mostly.

      --
      There are no atheists when recovering from tape backup.
    18. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by russotto · · Score: 2

      With a tank, you can just install a recirculating pump and valve (or valves) and have hot water quickly to all faucets. Doesn't work with tankless.

      Tankless and hard water is also a pretty bad combination. With a gas tanked heater, the scale tends to mostly accumulate on the bottom, where you can just empty it out with a hose. With a tankless heater, the scale tends to clog up the heat exchanger.

    19. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes the burner is as efficient but the heat transfer is not. It takes massive BTUs to give reasonable temperature rises at high flow rates, that is why it has to be evaluated on a per installation basis. The biggest thing in assessing the total cost is the incoming temperature of the water supply, the second is the usage patterns. Anyone who makes sweeping generalizations either way should not be taken seriously.

    20. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by vlm · · Score: 1

      Ah I see. My tankless is natgas powered, and they locally store more than a days worth, so that did not cross my mind.

      I have seen the system design where you a large thermal solar tank storage feeding into a electric tankless, which strikes me as a pretty good design.

      The one saving grace is most of the tankless heaters I've seen draw similar power to a air conditioner. So a house with tankless and air conditioning, draws 50 amps at 5am for a couple minutes, then more and more power until running darn near continuous 50 amps around 3pm for the air conditioner, then declining etc.

      Also all the houses in my neighborhood simultaneously run full out air conditioning at 3pm on the hottest day of the year, but the phase variance in lifestyles is pretty large, so my entire neighborhood probably only draws one heater at a time.

      In a non-air conditioning wired neighborhood, your example Could be an issue.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    21. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by bzipitidoo · · Score: 1

      When the old gas powered water tank sprang a leak after 27 years of service, I looked into switching to tankless, and decided it wasn't worth it. A cheap new tank heater was $350, warrantied for 6 years, and was so improved it was twice as efficient as the old one. In contrast, the cheapest tankless heater was about $800. Then it would be another $400 to convert the gas pipe, flue pipe, and water pipes, add electrical wiring so there was some place to plug it in, and contrive some kind of support for it as it was not freestanding. Checking the expected energy usage, I saw that the chance of making back the difference in the upfront cost was practically zero. The tankless water heater would have to last at least 30 years.

      To top it all off, tankless is a really poor 2nd to solar water heating. I looked into that too, and found it's completely impractical at the present time. No local business has a solar water heater. Prices at the closest places started at about $5000. Ridiculous. So I hope the new tank buys us enough time for solar to come way down in price.

      --
      Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
    22. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by gstrickler · · Score: 1

      I've never had a tank style leak. Not once in my 40+ years of life, owning multiple homes, and living in a total of about 20 different places. And none of them have stopped heating properly at less than 10 years of age.

      --
      make imaginary.friends COUNT=100 VISIBLE=false
    23. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by Ihmhi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      LOL. I know its April 1st, but for those who don't get it, try to find a tank guaranteed by mfgr longer than 6 years or a tankless with a guarantee shorter than 20 years

      My dad's a plumber and he can confirm that they "ain't built like they used to be". He visits customers who have newer heaters way more often than customers who have older ones.

      Then again, this goes for appliances in general. It's like we lost something, somehow. Remember when a television would last a good 20 years? And that wasn't the exception, that was the norm.

    24. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by BLKMGK · · Score: 3, Informative

      I have a gas fired tankless water heater, so long as I don't run the larger pipes that go to the spa tub wide open in Winter I get endless HOT water. In Winter the incoming water temp drops enough that it cannot keep up with the larger pipes that run to that spigot, turning them back 1/4 turn is enough to solve this. My shower regulator in the shower is temp sensitive so any variations in pressure from flushing toilets etc. result in no temp change. The newest best tankless sense the issue of overrun and slow water flow but my unit is about 5 years old now and this didn't exist then. Mine also requires electricity to fire off the gas, some of the new ones don't as they generate their own spark. Being able to adjust hot water temp with a digital temp meter vs using a screwdriver on a hidden potentiometer is nice.

      I compared the efficiency stickers on the outgoing tank vs the tankless. The tank was actually only a year old but my renovation meant it had to go. The tank had a rating in the middle, the tankless on the FAR left which was more efficient. Then I noticed, much to my shock, that the scales didn't even overlap! My tankless kicks the snot out of the tank unit it replaced to say the least. My gas bills in Summer when only hot water is being used used to be maybe $20 or so, they have dropped just about in HALF. Winter it's impossible to tell but I think it's clear the thing is saving me money and the fact that I can run the shower for an hour and still have HOT water simply rocks. I can also fill a damn big Jacuzzi spa tub to the brim with scalding hot water which is damn nice, I'd have had to upsize my previous tank to do this and driven costs up even more storing the water.

      One thing to bear in mind with tankless though is that you MUST have soft water, I have a softener for this purpose that also filters. If you do not have soft water they will scale badly as the water boils going through. In my area code REQUIRES a softener, it's those that don't have this that may cause these to "die faster". I know that when my previous tank unit died it was so full of sediment and minerals that it couldn't be drained... The softer water makes for a nice shower experience and the clothes clean better, the addition of a filter is nice as well so it was win win all around.

      Solar hot water is the ONLY thing that could beat this but the maintenance and install costs just wouldn't be worth it for me compared to the savings I already enjoy. This thing might not ever pay itself off I'll admit but the convenience I have is well worth it and I AM saving money vs a tank month to month. The heat pump tank units are also worth looking at but frankly the cost, space issues, and what to do with the wasted cold air make me pause. The space I needed to put my tankless in was small so a tank wouldn't have worked anyway, mine is the size of a small piece of luggage fit for carry-on!

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    25. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      One thing you forgot is that tankless is endless amount of hot water. Size it properly and no one gets a cold shower and everyone can shower at the same time while washing clothes. I moved to tankless when i did a renovation so costs to move and vent were already there no matter what. I did have to add a water softener but that benefited everyone too. My month to month costs during the Summer when gas isn't used for anything but water heating dropped in half but I'll admit that's only about $10 a month saved. the real bonus for me is being able to take a shower as long as I want or fill a Jacuzzi tub full without having to pay to heat a large tank - which I wouldn't have been able to fit anyway. For me the benefits have not all been things that get measured in dollars and cents...

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    26. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      Umm, I've lived in the same home for more than 15 years. I have had to replace a water heater that leaked badly in that time and I've had two friends do the same - to include one that had a bad flood. To top it off I also had one friend who's thermostat fritz'd and they came home to a tank unit that was bubbling and gurgling like a small time bomb. the pop-off didn't fire and hopefully wold have but when they called me to ask what I thought I told them to shut it off NOW when they also mentioned how damned hot the spigot water was. It wasn't a huge consideration for me but not having a potential bomb\rocket in my home is a kind of nice thing I guess.

      Anyway, tank water heaters are no panacea. Perhaps you've just not ever stayed in one place long enough to discover this?

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    27. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We spend about 7 dollars a month on gas now that we have a tankless H20 heater. This is a savings of around 25 a month.

      So far as I can tell, any of the "negatives" associated with tankless that I have read here are simply people justifying why they don't have a tankless hot water heater yet. The concept of keeping 50 or 100 gallons of water at 150 degrees so that you can use a few gallons of it a few times a day is simply dated and silly.

    28. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by BLKMGK · · Score: 2

      Recirculating the water is a great idea when you've insulated all of your pipes - you've done that right? Otherwise you're just warming the walls for the convenience of having hot water instantly. Scaling is easy to solve with tankless - install a softener. Code requires it in my area and 5 years later my tankless is still working fine. My tank unit was so scaled it couldn't be drained when it was replaced, the water here is damn hard!

      I like the idea of point of use heaters. If I could get that I'd consider it but I don't see being able to install those everywhere in an older home as being possible. In a new construction I think this would be awesome though and probably save water and perhaps even energy...

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    29. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The simplest way to conserve energy with a conventional water heater is to turn the temperature to the minimum required for dishwashing, etc. I dropped my small gas bill in half by turning the thermostat down from the "max" setting of the previous tenant.

    30. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      It should be pointed out that some gas fired tankless generate the power for spark from the moving water and don't require an electrical connection :-) Mine does though, oh well no hot water when power goes out.

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    31. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by Tom · · Score: 1

      relatively new to (residential) US, they have been used for awhile in Europe.

      "awhile" is downplaying it. When I bought this place 12 years ago, I replaced the old tankless water heater with a new one. In general, over here, my impression is that only old houses still have tanks.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    32. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      OTOH, endless hot water is endless power use. No free lunch here. What running out of hot water means is that you didn't get your tank sized correctly.

      Likely cheaper to buy a bigger tanked heater (modern one with decent insulation) than run around putting a bunch of instant on heaters that need their own dedicated power circuits and have lots of little gizmo type things to break. Larger tankless systems need a fair amount of power. If you have an older house, that might mean an upgrade in your panel box. Now, that has lots of other potential advantages (safety, flexibility) but now you're in the endless-renovation dilemma.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    33. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by davester666 · · Score: 1

      Um, there will be a followup article later today, then another tomorrow, then another next week. Then it will never be mentioned again, ever.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    34. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Read up on the various tankless systems out there. If you follow the various forums, there are two consistent complaints. The first is that folks don't understand electricity and they think they can put 30 kW through an extension cord - they don't plan on having an electrician look at the panel before the thing ends up at the door on pallet. Second issue is that they break. The heat exchangers and compressors seem most problematic. If your installing one to save money and you end up with a $500 repair bill, that equates to a fair amount of hot water.

      Another common complaint is that the power savings are not nearly as much as advertised (surprise!).

      When we did the last major upgrade on the our house, mostly looking at energy efficiency, I looked carefully at both tankless heaters and heat pumps. Given the poor quality of the residential gear coupled with marginal savings and increased complexity, we passed on both. Adding a passive solar boost to the hot water system makes the most sense for me, even in SE Alaska with it's notorious lack of sunshine - so that's the next project. Might finish it before the sun goes out...

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    35. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Hmm, see my previous post. Just looking at the various fora on these things (Rheem, GE, Fujistu), they do seem to fail fairly frequently. Fujitsu and GE just had a recall on the exchangers for some models (they might in fact be the same device, hard to keep track of who makes what these days).

      The manufacturer would send the exchanger to your local dealer who could charge you labor to replace the unit. Oopsie.

      So, I think you are correct - commercial stuff is pretty well made and would likely last a couple of decades. It also costs 4 - 5 times the cost of the residential units and then you're buying into overengineering unless you have a houseful of teenaged girls. Perhaps if I was designing a new house, I'd go that route but for a retrofit, the value just doesn't seem to be there.

      We're also seeing only the second or third generation units come out now. It's certainly possible that they can figure out the manufacturing problems and come up with a better design. Look at cars - it only took GM 80 years before they manufactured vehicles that could last longer than a decade.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    36. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      TVs are much cheaper now so there is more pressure on manufacturing cost, leading to less over-engineering. Plus TVs are a lot more complex now, so there are more parts that can potentially go wrong. On the plus side the technology improves more rapidly now and you can afford to own multiple TVs that are able to access dozens of channels and digital services over the air, so it's a trade-off.

      The same logic should not apply to water heaters though. You only need one and they cost about the same as they always did. Technology has improved slightly but they are still basically the same low-tech device they were decades ago.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    37. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most people don't know about the sacrificial anode rod in their tank style water heaters.
      http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pages/WHRpages/English/Longevity/water-heater-anodes.html
      Change the anode every now and then and the tank will last a long time.

    38. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I lived in Japan for more than five years with a tankless design water heater and would always install them in a house here if given the economic option. (I am presently seeking work so this would not be an option at the moment.) They use less energy and you have UNLIMITED hot water while in use. It is great to not heat water when you are not using it and to be able to have as much as you wish when you choose to have it. I have used them in France as well and would ALWAYS recommend them to anyone asking.

    39. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by gstrickler · · Score: 1

      I've stayed in one place for long enough, 15 years in the first house I bought. WH needed replacing because it wasn't working, but it didn't leak. Most of my WH have been electric, perhaps they're less prone to leakage than gas units?

      --
      make imaginary.friends COUNT=100 VISIBLE=false
    40. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The tank water heater in the house I now live in had a 15 year warranty but lasted 35 years. (I know because the installation date was written next to the manufacturer's specification panel.) It just depends on the quality of the heater you buy and whether or not you are willing to replace the (zinc) sacrificial rod now and then.

    41. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      Endless power use but only so long as it's being used, size a tank for large showers and you heat it all the time. Mine is gas so no panel issues here. i agree the point of use units have potential issues, I didn't go with them for many reasons. But I do have a tankless and I have zero regrets and really advocate for them based on my experience. Check out what many restaurants etc. use.....

      Honestly it's funny that everyone arguing against tankless seem to be doing it based on something they have read or heard about vs actually having one which those arguing FOR them all seem to be.

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    42. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by swalve · · Score: 1

      Did you include the costs of replacing the tank heater 5 more times in that 30 years?

      Solar is a good add-on to regular heating. You use the solar to extract as much heat as you can, and then you use some conventional heater to bump it up as necessary. They have a system of heat pipes installed in evacuated glass tubes that can collect a pretty good amount of heat out of the sky, even in relatively cool ambient temperatures. But it is expensive, and probably only worth it to people who want to live off-grid.

    43. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by swalve · · Score: 1

      Well, that is the crux of the problem: tank type water heaters are just systems with buffers. They can afford to have lower power heating elements in them because they can afford to run longer to smooth out the demand versus production curves. Tankless removes the buffer. With electric elements, the efficiency is probably going to be equal no matter what, and the cost difference becomes: can the increased cost of install overcome the standby losses of a tank? It usually can when you amortize the more frequent replacement costs of a tank over time.

    44. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      To keep tanks from leaking, it is important that you regularly replace the "sacrificial anode", which is a cheap piece of metal that is chosen for its electrochemical properties which make it corrode instead of the metal that the tank is made of. People who are used to renting probably think of maintenance as something that the landlord does to needlessly increase the utility costs...

    45. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Totally anecdotal, but yes. Friend bought a circa 1912 house, ancient old skinny hot tank in basement. When the plumber came around to sort various other things, he took one look at the tank and said "Don't ever replace that."

      That was about '98. He moved a couple of years ago, and did think serously about taking the tank with him, but there's just so damn much else to do when changing houses.

    46. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by Leolo · · Score: 1

      I get the impression that leaks are highly dependent on your water. My associate is on a private well and needs to replace his take every 10 years. He's had 2 tank leak all over the floor. His current tank lives in a small swiming pool.

      However, he is pretty much the only person I know who has had a leaking tank.

    47. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by Leolo · · Score: 1

      I take it your friends don't watch Mythbusters.

    48. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by vandamme · · Score: 1

      Get a solar water heater. At least preheat your water if you live in a cloudy north climate (I'm in Central NY). Down south you should be able to get most of your hot water out of a system, with very low pump electricity cost and low maintenance, for many years.

    49. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You got ripped off.....

      MIami sayz this is the best.....

      http://www.titantankless.com/?gclid=CLy4v8TklK8CFQaCnQodPy_HLw

      Let me know what else I can do to help you financially.

    50. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by Restil · · Score: 1

      I have a gas water heater, and during the summer months, when the heater is the only appliance using gas, the consumption part of my gas bill is somewhere between $5-10 a month. It would take multiple decades to justify the purchase of a tankless water heater, at least for me. Also, if the heating element of the heater breaks for some reason, like mine did a couple years back, the tank will still hold at least lukewarm water for a day or two before it's used up, giving you time to get it fixed before taking iced showers.

      -Restil

      --
      Play with my webcams and lights here
    51. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by Technician · · Score: 3, Informative

      The 20 year TV went away with the introduction of the inventory tax. Parts are not kept to support the service industry any more.

      http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/industries/article/0,,id=100355,00.html

      This tax ensures slow moving inventory is disposed of as it is not profitable to have replacement parts in stock for 10 year old TV sets. You can get generic caps, CFL lamps, etc, but a replacement custom video decoder/driver chip will be unobtainable. A broken VCR idler arm unless generic to fit many brands are unavailable. This is when I changed careers. Parts for older stuff no longer exists.

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
    52. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by Tronster · · Score: 1

      Keep in mind that "used properly" is code for "has limitations". In particular, you have to use hot water slowly - no rapid filling of bathtubs or buckets, or hot water pressure wash.

      Actually the water pressure for the (hot water in the) showers has increased since the tankless system. It wasn't awful with the old one, but one could tell the difference if two people were taking showers at once. Now you cannot tell the difference. I don't interact with my house's water system any differently before; nor was I given instructions to.

      The only limitation has been a slightly longer time for the hot water to start coming out.

    53. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would a programmable water heater be effective? I live alone and take one shower a day in the morning. Even for a married couple with children bathing is often done only in the morning. Do I really need hot water available when I'm at work?

      If I could realize decent savings I could forgo the desire for hot tap water for washing my hands. I already always use cold water for laundry. I only run the dishwasher every few days or sometimes only once a week.

      Not too log ago the local gas company had to shut off gas temporarily due to a leak or some sort of maintenance. I saw a notice on the door that they came by to relight my hot water heater when I was gone. I turned on the tap and the water was still warm. At first I thought I wasn't affected but evidently I was, however the tank kept the water reasonably warm all the time the pilot light was out.

      A tankless water heater would mean I would need 4 of them (assuming 1 per bathroom and 1 for kitchen). And one bathroom doesn't have any place to put it.

      Then again when I'm not using gas to heat the house during winter my gas bills are pretty low anyway.

    54. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Remember when a television would last a good 20 years? And that wasn't the exception, that was the norm.

      Yeah but what would you rather...a 26" CRT that costs a months wages that lasts for 20 years (including a few trips to the TV repair man) or a 42" LCD for half a days wages that "only" lasts a few years?

    55. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by godefroi · · Score: 1

      The problem with tankless water heaters is that those who advocate them fail to understand how efficient modern "tankful" water heaters are...

      Your water heater doesn't spend much time "keeping" water hot, unless you use MUCH less hot water than the norm. It takes the same amount of gas to GET the water hot in either type.

      --
      Karma: Poor (Mostly affected by lame karma-joke sigs)
    56. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by Lucractius · · Score: 1

      Good god your tax laws are more insane than i ever imagined.
      So glad i can do my entire years business taxes by myself in one afternoon based purely off my monthly account statements.

      --
      XML - A clever joke would be here if /. didn't mangle tag brackets.
    57. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Good old-fashioned non-pinpricking shower heads use around 4 gpm at typical water pressure, but you don't want more than around 3/4 of that being hot water. So say 3. Multiplied by two simultaneous showers gives 6 gpm.

      Typical on-demand tankless water heaters are 4 gpm - there are 8 gpm (and higher) ones too, so my guess is that you have one of these. And likely a gas line too, cause high-flow oil heaters seem to be seriously expensive.

      Living outside suburbia where there is no gas lines, and in a cold climate, using an oil heater is the economical way to go here. The burner that heats the house also heats the household water.

      Since looking into this I've learned that there are hybrid systems too, which try to be the best of both worlds, even though they presently cost a small fortune, and more things can break.

      And systems with a "luke warm" tank (or well reservoir) heated by return water, which speeds up both types of water heaters, as well as saving electricity, at very little cost if you do the plumbing yourself. I may look into that now - it sounds very sensible.

    58. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nest isn't the only option. There are other brands that do the same thing (some of which actually came out years before the Nest). If you don't need the cool look, you don't need to wait.

    59. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by lordbah · · Score: 1

      I went tankless (Rinnai) a few years back. Saved $600 the first year - it was also a switch from electric to gas. It will have finished paying for itself some time this year. To be fair, the prior 40 gallon tank wasn't the correct size for a single person (was there when I bought the house).

      There is about a 30 second delay at the start before I get hot water. There is also a little variance shortly after switching from the tub faucet to the showerhead.

      I didn't find anything about wearing out faster when I was researching.

      I think it's a good upgrade.

    60. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by colinnwn · · Score: 1

      Less sexy than the Nest, but equally capable and less pretentious http://www.bayweb.com/mktg/webthermostat.php

    61. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by colinnwn · · Score: 1

      I installed a pilot ignition Bosch myself about 10 years ago. It was $800 plus about $300 in installation parts. Had no big problems so far, besides getting used to how they operate. My understanding with the old pilot and hydro-ignition units were that they'd outlast the tank on a tank water heater, they just don't have as good of control of the hot water temp. Some of the electronic ones that have very tight temp control and very low minimum flow/BTU rates have had electronic gremlins. Hopefully they're getting better.

      The minimum operating flow/BTU was sometimes too low for low flow showerheads and hot ground water in Houston and the burner would go out. So you'd have to turn it off and back on to get hot water again. Now during a month or 2 of summer, we'll turn on the sink hot water very slowly while we shower.We've never had the actual cold water sandwich (during normal operation) affect that is somewhat regularly complained about. I especially doubt it would be a problem if you have temp regulating spigot valves on your tub/showers.

    62. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by colinnwn · · Score: 1

      Since his bill went down by only $10 a month, he almost certainly has a gas tankless heater with electronic controller. Even the biggest residential gas tankless heaters use less than 100 watts electricity, only while in operation, and only a few watts on standby. So the electrical use is pennies a year. Electrical tankless water heaters for the whole house are the ones that can require a panel upgrade. They use 5,000 to 20,000 watts when they are in operation. But if your electrical service can support them, switching from electric standby to electric tankless can save you big coin.

    63. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by colinnwn · · Score: 1

      What tankless are you talking about? The nat gas ones I've looked at may be speced to have their own 15 amp service, but the actual draw is around 3 amps or less, unless they are running their emergency freeze protection electric heater, which wouldn't have to run during hot water production. Now the electric tankless might draw 20 amps for a point of use ones. But electric whole house tankless need more like 50-100 amps to themselves when running.

    64. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by colinnwn · · Score: 1

      I've never heard of a gas tankless heat exchanger springing a leak, though I'm sure it has happened. Some brands of the electric tankless had problems with their heat exchangers. Regarding compressors, neither have a compressor. Are you talking about the fan on assisted combustion gas tankless? Those are known to have problems on some brands, along with the control board. But some of the problems have been due to incorrect exhaust, and intake on the condensing ones.

    65. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by colinnwn · · Score: 1

      You figured it out. Combustion byproducts are corrosive, moreso if the intake air has contaminants.

    66. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by colinnwn · · Score: 1

      If it is condensing tankless, it is condensing because the heat transfer is that good. It will be equal in efficiency converting gas to hot water as a condensing tank water heater, and it will be more efficient converting gas to hot water as a non-condensing tank water heater.

    67. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by colinnwn · · Score: 1

      They have timers for electric tank water heaters for just the case you say, where you use hot water only during certain times, and it keeps the heater off when you are gone. I've never seen one for a gas tank water heaters since the savings would be much less and the mechanics would be much harder.

      There are electric tankless water heaters for putting next to each spigot, they are called point of use. But you don't do this with gas tankless water heaters for several reasons. The gas ones are designed to replace one house sized water heater. If you have a home with 2 house sized water heaters on each side of the house, perhaps you'd need 2 gas tankless, but I can't imagine more.

    68. Re:Nest & Tankless heater by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It all sounds good, but I was glad not to have a tankless water heater when the power in my neighbourhood was out for a whole night :).

  3. do it ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    yourself.

  4. Being the Envy of Your Friends 101 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Pay off at least part of the house before you add frivolous crap to it to impress your friends. I have always been more envious of people with a paid-off (or at least non-defaulted) mortgage than I have of those who have 5-year-old technology pointlessly glued to the walls. You get to choose which of those you have in 2017.

    1. Re:Being the Envy of Your Friends 101 by drooling-dog · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Going beyond that, just what value is there to making your friends envious of you? Will they like you better? The truth is that you'll be hosting your envious friends all of the time and they'll never reciprocate, because they'll think you'll look down on them for their general lack of materialist douchebaggery.

    2. Re:Being the Envy of Your Friends 101 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why? I'm sure your responsible friends are now subsiding the useless technology bought by the irresponsible ones.

  5. Trick question? by arth1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If, as you say, money is a problem and you're on a budget, you should obviously drop any wild plans. Look for quality instead of tech, because you're going to be stuck with the two money sinks for a long time.
    Save the tech wishes for when money isn't a problem anymore.

    1. Re:Trick question? by RicktheBrick · · Score: 1

      I guess you think one should buy the cheaper poorly insulated house rather than purchase a more expensive but better insulated house. I guess you think one should buy a cheap car that gets poor mileage instead of one that get better mileage but is more expensive. There are devices that will save money over 5 years such as a programmable thermostat. CFL are now only a dollar at dollar tree so filling the house with those might save a buck or two. One can also purchase incandescent light bulbs at 4 for a dollar so one must look beyond the immediate costs. There are smoke detectors and carbon monoxide detectors that just might save money as well as one's life. Maybe if the energy cost of a building were included in the mortgage so that the total cost of ownership was known, than one could really choose which purchase is better.

    2. Re:Trick question? by vlm · · Score: 1

      If, as you say, money is a problem and you're on a budget, you should obviously drop any wild plans. Look for quality instead of tech,

      Or, if you assume, as most people do, that your life of freedom and fun is over once you get married and get a house, you'll probably have a lot more spare time, and a hell of a lot more space, so go ghetto and spend enormous amounts of time building it yourself out of cheap junk.

      Priced as an "extra luxury item" a large digital picture frame is Very expensive. But an old used PC, and a low end multi-monitor video card, and a cheap desktop monitor with a wallmount, results in a cheap large digital picture frame.

      Just like if you want automation, you can stick misterhouse on the existing fileserver for "free" and cable it to your X-10 or insteon bridge which costs damn near free, or you can pay $2500 for basically misterhouse installed in a turnkey appliance box. I'm sure I could buy an automation appliance that costs $3000 but instead I spent $29 on my insteon bridge years ago and plugged it into the existing file server.

      Similar to the automation, I eased into mythtv by piggybacking on the fileserver. My first frontend was a plain old $50 desktop living in an adjacent closet. If you want, you can do something like mythtv by spending thousands, but I spent tens instead.

      If you live in an apartment, and you do electronics, and you determine you need an oscilloscope, for storage reasons a kilobuck handheld digital scope might be your only reasonable choice. If you have an empty basement, a filing cabinet sized old tektronix that weighs 150 pounds is A-OK and only costs $50 at a ham radio fest.

      If you're not planning on putting it in your pocket, and if the guts can be hidden in the basement or a closet, who cares what it looks like or how big it is.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    3. Re:Trick question? by russotto · · Score: 1

      I guess you think one should buy the cheaper poorly insulated house rather than purchase a more expensive but better insulated house.

      You'd have to run the numbers. My poorly insulated house with drafty single pane windows cost $3500 in energy (total) last year, which was a very bad winter. If you go with this winter instead, it's $3150. All the insulation in the world (including replacing the windows and doors) is unlikely to cut that by even 25%.

    4. Re:Trick question? by arth1 · · Score: 1

      I guess you think one should buy the cheaper poorly insulated house rather than purchase a more expensive but better insulated house

      And I guess you fail reading 101, since you missed "Look for quality instead of tech".

    5. Re:Trick question? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, just because something is more expensive and does something better doesn't mean that you, in your present physical and financial situation, actually need it to do that thing better. It doesn't make financial sense to buy something more efficient if it isn't actually going to save you money. Do the math on any purchase larger than $100 that's expected to be durable. I did this with my phone, and even though I spend $400 up front, I'm expecting to save $200 over the life of the contract with my carrier thanks to their discounted rates on that sort of thing.

      Doing things like that will have a bigger impact on your bottom line than buying the next big gimmicky thing that's all the rage on HGTV.

    6. Re:Trick question? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You might be surprised. I upgraded my furnace and sealed my crawlspace with spray foam. My heating costs plummeted! The upper half of my home is also spray foamed (addition as of a few years ago) and sealed up very well. The 2nd heating unit that resides up there turns on only occasionally even when the winds are blasting outside. Just the comfort of not having drafts is nice if you fix the windows and doors - I did this too years ago and wish I'd done it sooner. Seal up the wall plates, caulk any cracks, pay attention to the little stuff you can do yourself.

      Perhaps when you run the dollars and cents it's not a dramatic difference but the difference in comfort is extreme!

    7. Re:Trick question? by arth1 · · Score: 2

      once you get married and get a house, you'll probably have a lot more spare time

      I laughed out loud.

      If you have an empty basement,

      ... you're known as a bachelor.

      Well, it may not be that bad for everyone, but I do believe the stereotypes about marriage have some foundations in reality. IME, YMMV

    8. Re:Trick question? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      "All the insulation in the world (including replacing the windows and doors) is unlikely to cut that by even 25%."

      Nonsense. Good sealing and insulation is likely to cut that by at least 67%.

  6. Flood wire early on. by Gordonjcp · · Score: 4, Informative

    If you have to rip apart walls - or even just skim them before you paint or paper - take the time to run in plenty of cabling. You can get audio and video baluns for running over CAT5 these days fairly cheaply, although the hifi purists will throw their hands up in horror.

    CAT6 is cheap enough, might as well start ahead of the curve.

    1. Re:Flood wire early on. by sensationull · · Score: 1

      +1 wire, the basis for most of the cool stuff you can add.

    2. Re:Flood wire early on. by Nutria · · Score: 2

      Exactly my thought. Lots of cat 6 feeding into a large Gigabit router located in a central closet. That way you can easily pay as you go and upgrade as needed, knowing that Cat6 will take you far into the future.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    3. Re:Flood wire early on. by Richard_J_N · · Score: 2

      Having done basically this, I suggest you use Cat6-S (the shielded version). More expensive, unnecessary for networking, but it does reduce the general amount of RFI present. Likewise, if you have fancy computerised dimmers. We have both, and our electrically operated curtains(*) now occasionally act like we have a poultergeist!

      (*) We're not that lazy, but these ones are inaccessible.

    4. Re:Flood wire early on. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're going to do it then invest in the infrastructure rather than the toys. Toys will come and go, but the infrastructre will make or break you.

      Lay the best you can afford - look at SFTP Cat6a rather than UTP. SFTP is shielded, foil-wrapped twisted pair - so each pair is wrapped in foil, and then a second layer of foil is wrapped round the 4 bundles. This protects you from outside interference and will future-proof yourself up to when 10GB ethernet on copper becomes affordable.

      Remember that your maximum length will be 90m (that allows for a patch lead at either end). So plan where your switch will be and work out from there. If you're hiring contractors to install it for you ask for a report on each terminated cable (a fluke tester will produce this as part of the testing). If you're doing it yourself then remember to keep your bend radius over 8cm or so behind the walls. If you can run in flexible hose then remember to stick in a piece of string / rope along the length - that way if you need more with later you can do it a lot more easily.

      Wireless has it's place, but the speed, security and distance limitations mean that you're going to reap the rewards for investing in good cabling up front.

      The only other important points are velcro and labelling. Velcro is your friend, nail small strips to the back of your desk as a cable tidy / routing, do similar things with evrey other piece of tech / home theatre equipment. Get obsessive about labelling too - label each plug before you plug it in, label each cable so you know where it goes. The benefits down the line are massively worth it.

      Disclaimer - I run a HW installation team in a blue-chip datacentre dealing with everything from pizza-box servers to mainframes

    5. Re:Flood wire early on. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We have both, and our electrically operated curtains(*) now occasionally act like we have a poultergeist!

      You live with Ian Poulter?

    6. Re:Flood wire early on. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Cabling is nice, plastic conduit is better. You can re-run wires after the fact.

      Make runs to all rooms in the house and home-run them to a basement panel system. Put the access plate somewhere useful or hidden behind a door. Later on, if you need to branch off the 16" height (where the elec outlets are run) up to a view height so that you can put in interface panels (tablets, etc) then you would only need to cut a few feet of wall right there.

    7. Re:Flood wire early on. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Tech, cables, and standards change. I have PVC drops in the walls for my cables to act as conduit.

    8. Re:Flood wire early on. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      No, no, a poultergeist is the ghost of a chicken!

    9. Re:Flood wire early on. by tixxit · · Score: 1

      100% agree. I've been in my house for a year now, but the couple we bought it from ran cabling ALL over the house (mostly when they finished the basement). Not just cat5, but HDMI and coax (wired up to my antenna) too. They also ran speaker wires to the backyard and in the ceiling/walls. If you are finishing a basement or doing some renovations, its pretty cheap to do and will have great returns. Visually, not having wires all over the place looks great. Cost wise, it's nice to have one receiver that can play music to the entire house and the backyard.

    10. Re:Flood wire early on. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I ripped out the walls I put at tleat two low voltage boxes in each room. The boxes have plastic conduit that either run to the basement or the attic. I also put a couple of conduits from the basement to the attic for stringing everything together. It's really nice to be able to change the wires without a significant hassle.

    11. Re:Flood wire early on. by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      Do people really not know the difference between a switch and a router any more? A 24 port switch is affordable. A 24 port router is fucking expensive.

    12. Re:Flood wire early on. by Nutria · · Score: 1

      You're absolutely correct. I was thinking "put the residential-grade router in the cabinet with the switch", and my fingers typed "router" instead of switch"...

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    13. Re:Flood wire early on. by HaveNoMouth · · Score: 1

      I also put fiber in my walls. Not just fiberglas but glass fiber. That was ... overkill. I use the CAT5; I don't use the fiber.

  7. iPhone garage door opener by oztiks · · Score: 1
    1. Re:iPhone garage door opener by jaf1230 · · Score: 1
      --
      SIG 666 - Signature stolen by the devil
  8. not break the bank? go bonk. by gl4ss · · Score: 1

    re-use equipment you can get for free. if you're just displaying weather or some shit like that on the kitchen wall, who gives a fuck if it's a re-purposed htc pocketpc phone doing it?

    however, envy of your friends? dunno about that. you probably wouldn't get that with even walls laden with ipads because they make no sense. how the fuck do you install a home theater in the wall? a home theater screen yeah sure, but the theater needs some place to sit in too.

    hdtv's are cheap, decent soundsystems are cheap. old wifi enabled pda's/phones are cheap. imagination isn't.

    --
    world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
  9. Cover the basics First by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Make sure the electrical installation is up to spec.
    Install as many cable ducts as you can afford before moving in any furniture.
    Designate a closet as server room; many of the ducts should connect to it.
    This will make any later installations much more painless.

  10. Buy a home theater projector by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The projector screen is a DIY job. For the audio a sub $500 setup is sufficient (don't listen to the audiophiles). Home theater furniture can be picked up second hand.

    Yep, for 2500 you can have a pretty kick ass setup.

    1. Re:Buy a home theater projector by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      I'm not an "audiophile" but I object to any claim you can get five (or six) decent speakers and an amplifier for under $500.

      --
      No sig today...
    2. Re:Buy a home theater projector by deimtee · · Score: 1

      You can get acceptable quality for that, but it won't shake the the neighbours house. Reasonably Cheap, Good, Loud - pick two.

      --
      I'm guessing that wasn't on their radar screen...
    3. Re:Buy a home theater projector by tqk · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm not an "audiophile" but I object to any claim you can get five (or six) decent speakers and an amplifier for under $500.

      You're not trying hard enough. Hint: it doesn't have to be new. With all your friends upgrading to the latest and greatest bleeding edge stuff, you can find great stuff as hand-me-downs. I now have a Technics amp pumping beautiful stereo sound from my TV/DVD player through a couple of good but inexpensive Paradigm speakers. The only part of any of that I paid for was the speakers, probably a decade ago.

      You'd be surprised what you can find used (or discarded) that's still going to work well for a long time if you want it to.

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
    4. Re:Buy a home theater projector by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      He wants to be the "envy of his friends", not fill his house with their hand-me-downs....

      --
      No sig today...
    5. Re:Buy a home theater projector by tqk · · Score: 1

      With all your friends upgrading to the latest and greatest bleeding edge stuff, you can find great stuff as hand-me-downs.

      He wants to be the "envy of his friends", not fill his house with their hand-me-downs.

      Install it all in a closet and your friends will never know what you've got. How are they going to know if the music you're playing is streamed, or if it's coming off fifteen year old cassette tapes (as mine often is)?

      Otherwise, great! Less competition for me. :-)

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
    6. Re:Buy a home theater projector by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      For $350 you can get very high-end room/speaker calibration built in to your amplifier that will allow you to get excellent sound from merely decent speakers. It's no longer about the hardware for audio quality as these things take care of phase, frequency, and room acoustics.

  11. The whole point of high tech is by Igarden2 · · Score: 1

    The whole point of high tech is to make something look easy that is hard for most people to understand . Else why do it? That almost always brings with it a high price unless you're MacGyver. I think the OP is barking mad if s/he thinks it can be done on the cheap.

    --
    Normally I ascribe all life to intelligent design, but in your case I'll make an exception.
  12. Money's not the only problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Other than budget, you'll have the wife problem. Mine made me physically remove (not just shut off) my voice controlled doors...

  13. Shortcuts To A... by rrkaiser · · Score: 1

    C'mon. Do you think /. can read your mind? ...need to have some kind of idea about... What's the budget? Does high-tech mean "off the grid"? Does high-tech world's glitziest kitchen? Bathroom? Lighting? and on and on...

    1. Re:Shortcuts To A... by phaedrus9779 · · Score: 1

      I think that all interesting tech projects would be neat to learn about. If i can't afford it now, i can plan it for the future.

      --
      The above is most likely false.
    2. Re:Shortcuts To A... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If he could list all the things he is considering he probably would have already googled them, sounds like he is looking for some creative ideas that people have tried or seen.

      Obviously some infrastructure to give you a good base, CAT6 and/or coax throughout the house. Make sure you have decent electrical service.

      Start with home entertainment areas and offices and try to hide as many cables as you can. Then but a nice universal remote (high end pronto's and the like can be $2k+ but there are some pretty cool and useful logitech's for a little over $100). The real work is getting everything setup in a coherent fashion so the wife and guests can easily use it. RF remotes are also useful if you are hiding all of your components.

      Also once you buy a house(unless you are building new) there will be things you'll want to change. As you do projects, see if you can spend just a little extra to make it a little techy.

      I recommend replacing all the locks in the house when you move in, make sure all exterior doors have deadbolts (vertical deadbolts if you want to be really secure). Maybe splurge a little bit and get a fingerprint lock for your main entry door.

      My basement room that I use as a server room / lab area has conductive paint (think faraday cage) just don't plan on using your cell phone in there ;-)

      There was recently a /. article (http://ask.slashdot.org/story/12/03/30/216258/ask-slashdot-a-cheap-diy-home-security-and-surveillance-system) about home security cameras. Been on my list of todo's for a while.

      A lot of kitchen appliances can have high-tech options such as built in LCDs and network connections (I've never gone this route because the markup seems to be too high for me). Our under-counter kitchen PC is actually pretty useful. You can have a recipe up on it when you're cooking and watch TV from the media server. We've tried keeping grocery lists on it but that was kind of inconvenient. Ours is a window's box because the wife has a crapload of recipes and cookbooks in MasterCook software, but I know people who just use evernote.

      Motion activated lights are still pretty cool, I put a couple in the basement. The one in the laundry room is really nice since a lot of time you are carrying a basket when you walk in there. I disassembled some clearance sale outdoor lights to make mine so I could put the motion sensor closer to the door so the light turns on before you are actually line of site.

      If you are a little handy, you might be able to upgrade your kitchen cabinets to have soft-close drawers and doors. A little more high tech, Blum (best drawer slides in my opinion) also has "servo-drive" where you can just touch the drawer to open it.

      First house, you may need to buy a lawn mower, weed trimmer, etc. Robotic mowers look awesome but were still kind of pricey when I last checked. Rechargeable walk-behind mowers have come down in price and would be fine if you don't have a small lawn (less than 1/3 acre). Plus then you can mow at odd times in the day (or night) without pissing off the neighbors. A couple companies also make remote controlled mowers, but seems like building one out of a rechargeable walk-behind would be more fun.

      If all your friends are techies, they'll think some of these things are cool but won't be all that jealous. If you really wanna make them jealous, you need big expensive toys. Buy that John Deere riding mower for your 1/4 acre lawn and a Bobcat to clear snow off your driveway. You'll probably get more of your initial investment back from buying a used Bobcat skidsteer and selling it 10 years later than you ever will adding some techy feature to a house.

    3. Re:Shortcuts To A... by phaedrus9779 · · Score: 1

      Jealousy was perhaps the wrong direction in my submission. A man's home is his castle - in my head, tech upgrades should upgrade the functionality of a home in a creative way. Your ideas are exactly what i was hoping for.

      --
      The above is most likely false.
    4. Re:Shortcuts To A... by HornWumpus · · Score: 4, Informative

      Don't listen to him about the electric mowers. Get an old 2 stroke Toro. (Mine has a Yamaha motor).

      They last forever and your friends _will_ be a little jealous of your mowers power. Like mowing your lawn with an old Transam. Sure the hippies sneer, that's part of the point.

      Before automating any mower listen to 'my dead dog rover' 100 times without a break.

      Figure out what trees you want where and do it. For example I put off cutting down a false maple, which was a mistake. Spiky balls made half the back yard not barefoot safe. Also the tree sucked water etc out of the ground. Making any replacements I tried to establish before cutting it down fail.

      Plant a vegetable garden. Store bought tomatoes suck. I should be planting right now, but my back aches. Hence goofing off here.

      Seriously examine your priorities. The house is not that different from the rental you moved out of. Granting you can now modify all you want. Start with the things like new trees that have built in clocks/delays. Then bigger mods like fixing the acoustics of a media room (assuming you are bringing decent enough, for you, audio with you). This is a project management problem. I believe that most of your 'critical path' items will be 'get tree to grow to produce shade' type. Not 'run cat-6 to medicine grow room automation server closet'.

      You don't want to be the dude with the entire house automation built around, and locked into, his palm pilot.

      I cannot overemphasize getting on the landscaping etc. It's spring or will be soon where you are. Get a copy of the Garden handbook for your region. Figure out what you (or your wife) really want and start with the slowest growing bits.

      Get a chainsaw. Again 2 stroke is the way to go. Electric ones suck. Chainsaws are nerdy in a different kind of way. Don't go crazy or you will get hurt. Your first saw should run 0% nitromethane fuel. Be skeptical of advice from anyone who tells you otherwise.

      Install your HAM radio tower and antenna ASAP. It helps put the HOA in it's place (if you have one, sympathies). The FCC has claimed exclusive domain over regulating radio towers, so installing one is a trap for any overzealous HOA assholes.

      The first task is assign reasonable priorities. Is 'Geek out the house' really #1?

      I think you should throw a 'show your neighbors who is boss' party. Invite your worst reprobate friends from your single days. Have your wife invite her sluttiest friends from her single days. Invite me, I'll bring 'medicine'.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    5. Re:Shortcuts To A... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Electric mowers are OK if you don't have a huge yard to mow, very low maintenance and quieter. Electric chainsaws are lower maintenance and good enough for anything less than major tree removal. I have an electric for small jobs and a big gas one for larger cuts. Get good ones new or second hand not cheap ones. If you're feeling adventurous both can be modded. I replaced the switch on my chainsaw with a triac when it welded itself on and rebuilt a junk line trimmer with a cracked angle grinder motor. Now the former is safer and the latter as powerful as a medium gas one.

    6. Re:Shortcuts To A... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your first saw should run 0% nitromethane fuel.

      Yeeees.. that's pretty much what my Ozito 355mm takes.. and an extra long extension cord.. :-)

    7. Re:Shortcuts To A... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Real men mow with a reel mower. I mow 125'x125' powered by me. It's clean, it's quiet, and no more work than a power mower. Kids and dogs can be in the yard when I mow. I can't imagine a situation where a dog would let himself get killed by a robot lawn mower. It have to be a opiate addicted York-a-poop strung out on the lawn at the wrong time of day

      A chainsaw isn't really necessary. I got by with a Sawzall and a Sven-saw until I started heating with wood.

    8. Re:Shortcuts To A... by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Vendor lock in. When you want to step up to Nitro you will have to replace your chainsaw.

      You can't even put a tuned pipe on it. Now nerdy is that?

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  14. A few easy things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1.) Install USB wall outlets at key locations. This is the cheapest way to impress.
    2.) Get a home automation system with android/iPhone support. (Typically X10 related hardware.) This is the most obvious (show-off) way to impress.
    3.) Hide your equipment. Nothing is sexier than a large TV complimented by a recessed media cabinet that is out of view. Don't let the people see a single wire. This is the subtlest, yet most impactful, way to impress.

    1. Re:A few easy things by swalve · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I agree with #3 100%. I was at a party at a "rich guy's" house recently, and the house wasn't ostentatious, but it had the little things. Like for example, your recessed media cabinet. The dude actually bumped out an exterior wall so all the media stuff would be flush with the interior wall.

    2. Re:A few easy things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That used to be a fairly common detail in upscale houses. Check out floorplans and such up to about the 30s, and you'll see that exact wall bump made for the dining-room cabinet.

      Until modernism made straight lines cool, architectural design was an awful lot about making decorative folds in the outside of the building. Because otherwise your fine house looked more like a barn or warehouse than a castle. Hence that bump was one more opportunity to complicate the outsides. And it made a flush dining cabinet for the "little lady" to upscale her friends with.

      (I worked most of the 90s as a renovator. By the end I had a lot of respect for simple stucco box house, and a slight horror for the expensive fanciful wood ones -- complete inversion from when I started.)

  15. Head down to Guitar Center by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Buy an entry-level Stratocaster (about $150) and a tiny amp (about a 18 inches cubed) and learn to play a few things from youtube.

    Then get 'faced and crank the volume to 11 at 3 a.m. That'll get your neighbor's attention real quick.

  16. Multipurpose - Alarm System / Home automation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Think of things that you will get anyways for your house. Then see if you can get more functionality out of it. I had to get an alarm system so I looked around for a system that will also allow you to do Home automation. There are many systems out there that will allow you to do home automation with Zwave - no wiring required. Now I have an alarm system that will also adjust the thermostats when I leave the house and turn on lights when I come home or turn them off when I go to bed. For me this is already fairly close to a "High Tech Home".
    If you are not interested in an Alarm system. You can get a low cost start with systems like MiCasa Verde in home automation because you do not need wiring for it.

  17. Four Words by sudden.zero · · Score: 1

    Mac Mini Media Center http://osxdaily.com/2010/03/22/how-to-setup-a-mac-mini-as-a-media-center-server-and-remote-torrents-box/ Now this can be cheap or expensive depending on the Mac Mini that you buy but I see Mac Mini's all day long on Ebay for a couple hundred bucks.

  18. What style? Shiny Apple/Bose, or industrial look? by Aguazul2 · · Score: 1

    Industrial might be cheap -- paint all the walls white, have exposed cabling everywhere, but neatly ordered and stapled to the wall, have exposed cable-run trays suspended from the ceiling. If the wife likes industrial style it could be cheap enough.

  19. Wall Street by DrProton · · Score: 1

    Get a job on Wall Street and steal money from old retirees. You'll have enough for your dream house in no time.

    --
    "Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens." - Schiller
    1. Re:Wall Street by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mitt Romney had a good article on this in Money Magazine a number of years back.

  20. Define high-tech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    To me, high tech would be: a house that incorporates all modern technologies reducing your environmental footprint. Best of all, you wouldn't need to replace it every 3 years. So, you'd
    * Use rain water to flush the toilet and for your washing machine (as bonus: you'll use less washing powder, too, as the water will be low on calcium)
    * Have solar panels on the roof to provide most of your electricity
    * Have solar collectors on the roof to provide most of your hot water
    * Your house would be excellent insulated
    * You'd use heat exchangers to supply yourself on a fair amount of fresh air, yet still not wasting heat
    Any gadget you'd use in house would be primarly selected on low electricity usage. So yes, you posses and use a TV, computer, however, they use little electricity. You have a car which you choose not to drive most of the time because you prefer a bike.
    If you do it smart, none of the above will cost you a cent but actually only save you money. Which means that you can shorten your working carreer by at least a 10 to 15 years, to retire early and have 100% of your time available for the things you really want to do. Because, you do not want to work simply to pay for the loans you made to impress your friends.

  21. A telephone in every room! by hellop2 · · Score: 1

    Find some little voice coil speakers: Yard sales, computer store dungeons, your kids toys, etc...

    Get some wire: Same as above, also rail stations, baseball fields, transformer substations, etc..

    Run a pair of wires into every room. On one end all the wires meet and are spliced to the tip/ring of your phone jack. On the other end, solder the tip to a speaker. To dial, tap the other wire to the speaker using Loop Disconnect Dialing

    Then hold that wire on there. Fun fact, the speaker is also your microphone!

    --
    How many more years will slashdot have an off-by-one error on your Score in your profile?
    1. Re:A telephone in every room! by Animats · · Score: 1

      How many more years will slashdot have an off-by-one error on your Score in your profile?

      Right. The people behind Slashdot failed "Web 2.0."

      Could be worse. Take a look at tribe.net . It was cool once. Then they went Web 2.0. They tried to emulate Myspace's user-redesignable pages. They botched it so bad that everybody left. Looking at my old account today, of the 20 tribes to which I subscribed, one has updates: "Tribe.net Bug Reports - 2264 new".

    2. Re:A telephone in every room! by hellop2 · · Score: 1

      We must rally at the gates of Slashington! To arms! To arms! Off with their tacos!

      --
      How many more years will slashdot have an off-by-one error on your Score in your profile?
  22. IDEA 2 by hellop2 · · Score: 1

    Get a bunch of X-10 crap on ebay and setup motion-detect lights all over inside and out.
    Get a X-10 usb transmitter and make all the lights go wonky. Then add voice recognition using Perlbox.

    I actually did this once:
    "Computer Illuminate" (turns on lights)
    "Computer Climate Control" (turns on fan)

    --
    How many more years will slashdot have an off-by-one error on your Score in your profile?
  23. Debt is the most prized American possession. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't think that you understand American culture very well. This isn't about the house or the gadgets or the technology. This is about the American male having a higher debt load than his friends and relatives. That's what really matters in America. The bigger your debt, the more American you are.

    When an American says he "owns" a house, the house is secondary. It's the $400,000, 60-year mortgage that's important. His neighbor maybe only has a $350,000, 40-year mortgage on his house, so his neighbor is clearly the inferior being.

    Then there are the American's car loans. Many American couples own three or four SUVs or trucks, because that way they can possess more vehicle loans, each for a greater amount. You don't want to be the only American on the block with one or two cars! That'll clearly show that you're scum.

    Credit card debt is also a very important indicator of how American somebody is. If you've only got one credit card, you're probably just trash. You're worse than trash if you haven't been paying at least some interest on the balance for a few years. Real Americans will have maxed out at least four or five credit cards, while working hard on maxing out the sixth, seventh and eighth that they possess. Buying the overhyped Apple useless-gadget-of-the-hour is a great way to achieve this goal.

    I hope you have a better understanding of American culture now, and the utmost importance of debt. No American household is complete without owing huge amounts of money to some faceless corporation, especially when there's no hope that they could ever repay it during their lifetimes.

    1. Re:Debt is the most prized American possession. by vlm · · Score: 4, Interesting

      When an American says he "owns" a house, the house is secondary

      Its a part of modern american doublespeak. For another housing related laugh, "I'm building a new house" means he watches "this old house" and some HGTV shows and he signed a contract for some illegals to build it for him. Confuses the shit out of me because my Grandfather actually built his own house... sears and roebuck dropped off a flatbed truck of lumber in a then new suburb and him and his coworkers swung hammers one summer in the 50s. Him and his coworkers all moved into the same subdivision at the same time and helped frame each others houses, then they contracted out for the technical stuff (electrical, plumbing) then my grandmother and friends painted the inside walls. Resulted in my dad growing up in a very tight knit neighborhood. I'm told this was not the norm, but also was not unusual, in that generation for "building a house" to mean physically swinging a hammer.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    2. Re:Debt is the most prized American possession. by fastest+fascist · · Score: 2

      Sounds like socialism to me!

    3. Re:Debt is the most prized American possession. by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 3, Insightful

      my Grandfather actually built his own house... sears and roebuck dropped off a flatbed truck of lumber in a then new suburb and him and his coworkers swung hammers one summer in the 50s

      Keep in mind that if your grandparents had kids at the time this is a very romanticized view... Likely your grandmother was expected to wrangle the kids all week and then on weekends as well while pops swung hammers building the house - Very tough. Today, there's an expectation of shared childcare, so on weekends you're at the park or swimming lessons or whatever with the kids, which makes finding time to build a house pretty tricky.

    4. Re:Debt is the most prized American possession. by vlm · · Score: 2

      Sounds like socialism to me!

      LOL the employer was the US Army (although they were civilians)

      According to my grandmother they spent about 2 hours drinking and eating brats and burgers for every 1 hour working, so...

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    5. Re:Debt is the most prized American possession. by vlm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The expectation now is single motherhood, either never married or divorced, so... "whats a father" is more likely the issue, than "how is dad going to build a house"

      Also workplace safety rules were more relaxed back then. The kids were expected to work onsite, sort of a lassie on the ranch lifestyle, in the burbs. So every box of nails or 2x4 was dragged to the "working men" by my grandfather's kids. The kids also did "real work" like painting, not just gofer duties. Supposedly my dad laid down the sod in his own backyard... Even the littlest kids were expected to hand beer and soda bottles to the workers.

      My grandmother compared the experience to what it was like for her during the (recent) war... husband's gone and no kids...

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    6. Re:Debt is the most prized American possession. by Ihmhi · · Score: 2

      I'm told this was not the norm, but also was not unusual, in that generation for "building a house" to mean physically swinging a hammer.

      Nowdays, it's pretty much outright illegal to try and do this stuff if you're not a licensed contractor.

      It's kinda sad. Even if you could live up to building codes and the like (which are mostly about what materials to use and building standards like "doorways need to be this size"), you still need to have a contractor's license in many states. They're not cheap, either - they usually cost thousands of dollars, and you typically need to be bonded for a few million as well.

    7. Re:Debt is the most prized American possession. by abirdman · · Score: 1

      I completely agree with you. I don't know whether you got a flamebait because of the sarcasm, the gratuitous Apple dig, or because you're AC, but your comment perfectly decodes today's advertising and media message, promoted and motivated by inconsistent banking regulations and unbalanced tax code. "Stuff" means debt, and people trading debt for stuff means the wheels of capitalism keep turning. Much of pop culture is solely of use in establishing the value of "stuff" so that people will want it, and go into debt for it. And debt pays for consumer purchasing growth.

      It's not that difficult to manage one's personal debt. It's much harder to tune out the din of advertising that attempts to lure us into debt. Skepticism, even of the sneering and sarcastic variety, can be very valuable.

      --
      Everything I've ever learned the hard way was based on a statistically invalid sample.
    8. Re:Debt is the most prized American possession. by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 1

      Even the littlest kids were expected to hand beer and soda bottles to the workers.

      Again, a romanticized view not rooted in reality. A two-year old and four-year old have short attention spans and while they might be interested in handing out beer and soda for a few minutes, very quickly they'll want to do the next thing like heading to the park. Sure, 14 year olds should be mowing the lawn not playing xbox, but young kids need parenting and supervision, and in the 'good ol' days' that would have fallen on the woman.

    9. Re:Debt is the most prized American possession. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I was a kid, I would have LOVED to help my dad and his friends built a house. Construction is fucking awesome, and there's nothing male children love more than putting something together. My brother, I, and our friends in the neighborhood used to build bridges across drainage ditches and stuff like that, so don't tell me that kids have short attention spans and would rather be in a park somewhere.

    10. Re:Debt is the most prized American possession. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'm building a house right now.
      But I don't live in de US...

    11. Re:Debt is the most prized American possession. by Auroch · · Score: 1

      Sounds like socialism to me!

      LOL the employer was the US Army (although they were civilians)

      According to my grandmother they spent about 2 hours drinking and eating brats and burgers for every 1 hour working, so...

      Not only socialism, but good old fashioned american procrastination (and giving others many opportunities to help out).

      --
      Quartz Extreme and Core Image. Are there any other real reasons to spend all that money on generic hardware?
    12. Re:Debt is the most prized American possession. by vlm · · Score: 2

      Is this some kind of feminist rant thing? Sorry, but I heard about it first hand from all the players involved... grandfather, grandmother, and father. The stories seem to mesh and they seemed to have no axe to grind.
      I suppose they could have all been teaming up against me in a conspiracy, like santa claus and the easter bunny and the tooth fairy, but this was all discussed at a much later age without any product tie in or moralizing, so I suspect what I'm reporting and they reported is pretty much fact.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    13. Re:Debt is the most prized American possession. by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

      OTOH, I've seen the result of 'non contractor built houses'. It' was pretty much the norm in Alaska until recently. Most towns didn't have building codes. When we moved into our current house, I knew I had to do a significant amount of renovation (1970's epilepsy inducing kitchen designs for starters) but it would have never occurred to me than anyone would but flashing between the upper and lower stories upside down so they collected water. Nice.

      A couple of removed structural joists later I moved on to new and other things. The roof. Which, as one might of guess, had it's flashing installed backwards.

      Sigh. Renovations are always entertaining. Restores faith in mankind, it does.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    14. Re:Debt is the most prized American possession. by morari · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Precisely. The submitter even admits to as much.

      The problem: money, I'm on a budget.

      Buy a smaller house in a less affluent neighborhood. Don't spend your budget on fads like iPad installations. Maybe try actually owning something in your life instead of living under an increasingly ridiculous debt. It's not hard, you just have to stop thinking like a yuppie. Ditch the SUV and move out of the suburbs. You're the reason our country is in the shitter. You've made yourself an economic slave and are bringing everyone else down with you.

      --
      "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
    15. Re:Debt is the most prized American possession. by morari · · Score: 2

      Young kids need parenting and supervision, and in the 'good ol' days' that would have fallen on the woman.

      That is unfortunately not the case anymore, is it? Now the kids are just shipped off to a daycare to be indoctrinated by a stranger. The parents have no time for them, as they're both out working full time jobs in order to just barely stay afloat on that house and care payment. They have made themselves into slaves through debt. They children won't even know them, and they will be worse off for it. The cycle will become more and more aggressive with each parentless generation.

      --
      "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
    16. Re:Debt is the most prized American possession. by morari · · Score: 1

      Don't live in the suburbs. Don't live in the city. No one cares what I build or how I paint my house.

      --
      "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
    17. Re:Debt is the most prized American possession. by nullchar · · Score: 1

      Supposedly my dad laid down the sod in his own backyard...

      Hey - I laid down sod in my own backyard... so get off my lawn!

    18. Re:Debt is the most prized American possession. by Malenx · · Score: 2

      Expectation of shared childcare is a load of crap. Expectation of shared workload is what's expected out of sensible adults.

      That means if the wife is spending all her day taking care of her children (by choice) then the man should be spending all of his day working. Same difference vice-verse for stay at home fathers.

      If the couple wants to build a house for themselves, then the wife can easily watch the children while the husband works, or they can simply trade positions and he can watch them while she builds the house, or they can do it together.

      When a couple wants to accomplish something like building a house, it's fully expected of both people to sacrifice and commit to the endeavor. The wife in the above example wasn't at home suffering, she was pulling her fair load so the husband could put his effort into building her a home.

    19. Re:Debt is the most prized American possession. by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      I am finding more and more that the conveniences of the city are not worth the trade-off of losing the independence of the countryside.

    20. Re:Debt is the most prized American possession. by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      there's nothing male children love more than putting something together.

      Yes there is: taking something apart, explosively.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    21. Re:Debt is the most prized American possession. by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Don't live in the suburbs. Don't live in the city. No one cares what I build or how I paint my house.

      I doubt you have children that need to go to school, or a job you have to commute to each day.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    22. Re:Debt is the most prized American possession. by ak_hepcat · · Score: 1

      My 1st house was built in the early 40's.
      There wasn't a right angle in the place, nevermind that it survived the '64 earthquake.

      And different addition phases meant different building styles.
      The outside of the original structure was still present behind some of the drywall in the "kitchen" area,
      with it's slanted nautical-themed cabinetry.

      still, I'm not moving out of Anchorage.

      --
      Support FSF: Stop thinking with your wallet, and think with your imagination. (cc/non-commercial)
    23. Re:Debt is the most prized American possession. by morari · · Score: 1

      There are public schools everywhere, y'know. In fact, I'm right on the edge of two different districts. The bus for one of them runs right down my road three times a day. Honestly though, I wouldn't put my children through the joke that is public school. With the wealth of accredited online academies, home-schooling is easier than ever. As for my daily commute... I am self employed. I work three days a week, which makes the forty minute commute into town a little easier to bear.

      Stop making excuses and take control of your life.

      --
      "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
  24. Married Slashdotter? by Dixie_Flatline · · Score: 1, Funny

    This is obviously a fake story. It's April 1st, guys!

  25. Set The Foundation by Frightened_Turtle · · Score: 1

    For a most awesome lair! THIS HOUSE is available for sale! It even comes with its own runway!

    --


    Whew! This water sure is cold!
  26. cool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Slippery slope. You will always be upgrading to stay ahead of the cool curve to keep impressing your friends.
    Change friends who don't care how cool or uncool you are. Or find friends that are easily impressed.

  27. rsync your entire house to a safe, remote location by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 4, Funny

    . . . then you can just go live there if a catastrophic event destroys your original house. You'll be all set, right down to the stuff in your fridge from the night before. You can even switch living between the two houses, if you like.

    The difficult part of this solution, is convincing your wife that the other woman in the other house, is just a copy of her . . . and not another woman in your life.

    Every Slashdot technical solution must include rsync. And SSH tunnels.

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
  28. Home Automation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Check out the Insteon products from SmartHome. You can control lights, thermostat, sprinklers, etc. from a PC, tablet, or smartphone. It's a cheaper alternative to the traditional home automation needing control wires, and it works well.

  29. Pi Time! by connor4312 · · Score: 1

    This would actually be the ideal situation to use a minicomputer such as Raspberry Pi (http://www.raspberrypi.org/). If you want to get really cool, you could use E-Ink displays. Then, one Raspberry could run as many displays as you want because it would not have to update the displays constantly. Save energy too. I would load it up with a little Linux kernel and some programming in order that they could all be controlled over the network (even remotely!).

  30. Best shortcut, and the cheapest! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just paint it on the walls. Need to switch apps? Repaint it.

    It is the Apple way. Just make sure to notify Apple if you intend selling your house. They need to pay for expensive wines remember.

  31. Buy Used by pz · · Score: 2

    Buy used equipment. 1 or 2 generation-old stuff is dirt cheap. Craigslist is your friend, there. Yard sales. Look for going-out-of-business sales (see recent stories on Best Buy closing stores). Buy refurbs.

    Lots of people will tell you to put in wires in the walls. Wireless APs are so good now that this is just a waste of money in nearly every case. Buy good wireless APs (see "buy refurbs" above). This is one exception to the previous-generation rule of thumb above (I've just put in Netgear WNDR3700, bought from advice given in responses to someone else's Ask Slashdot question, and couldn't be happier ... highly flexible, plenty of signal, fast assocation, dual band, and all of the interference problems from neighbors, etc., have disappeared).

    Big wide-screen LCD / plasma TVs are great, but a ceiling-mounted projector does nearly as well, can create a much bigger image, and often can be had for much less. Used stereo components (assuming you want such) are available on eBay by the dozen. Same for gaming consoles, etc. See Craigslist, too. Buying tech on Black Friday or Cyber Monday can save a ton. Since you don't have money, then you'll have to spend something else: namely, time.

    In short, you'll need to compromise, either on buying the latest-greatest, or on buying new, or on the exact technology. You won't end up being the envy of your tech friends, but you'll have fun.

    Finally, a word of advice: if the tech stuff is going to be appreciated more by you than your spouse, then make sure you're finding ways to improve the home that will be appreciated more by your spouse than by you. Domestic harmony is more important than any gadget.

    --

    Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
    1. Re:Buy Used by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      About time someone gave a useful response. Also, if you have the wireless connectivity down, you might want to consider getting a few low end smart phones to embed in walls to use as a media player with a touch interface. I picked up a samsung gem off ebay with a bad esn for about 50 bucks and if you could properly hide speakers than you could end up with a pretty slick setup. I was looking into this earlier and this was the cheapest solution I came up with, for android there are apps for playing media from a network source and I've seen an app for voice control that doesn't need internet. Something like that could be installed using a wiring box sized for two light switches and you would just need to get each one power and speakers.
      Good grief people 3/4 of the way down the comments page before someone lets go of paranoia enough to offer some good suggestions. I don't care if it is an April fools day story, it is still a cool idea... and I happen to find myself in the same boat, but in an apparent. Recently married and looking around for projects to do.

    2. Re:Buy Used by excelsior_gr · · Score: 1

      Big wide-screen LCD / plasma TVs are great, but a ceiling-mounted projector does nearly as well, can create a much bigger image, and often can be had for much less.

      I'm afraid not. I researched the local (German) market a couple of years ago and that wasn't the case. The image from a projector can be much bigger, but that's about it. A decent projector started at about 3000 Euros, which still produced an image that was not as sharp and not as bright as the one produced by a modern TV at half the cost. Unless you have a really huge living room so that you'll be sitting fairly far away from the screen, the projector's image quality is not up to par to the TV's IMHO. Then, in order to get the best out of the projector, you will have to dim the lights or shell out a lot of cash for a very powerful bulb. The TVs do not suffer that badly from ambient light. Than again, you still have the problem with the life-span of the projector's light-bulb, which is rather limited in comparison to a TV and replacing it is a very expensive business.

    3. Re:Buy Used by pz · · Score: 1

      Given that you were looking at EUR 5,000 projectors, I suspect your interpretation of "decent projector" is not the same as someone who is asking for advice on doing things on the cheap. Used/discontinued/refub projectors are in the few hundred dollar range (and USD 1000 will buy a new projector that you'll be able to watch in daylight if you don't mind the image being not too large). But they won't give you HD or above resolution, which is why I wrote they "[do] nearly as well."

      --

      Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
    4. Re:Buy Used by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Lots of people will tell you to put in wires in the walls. Wireless APs are so good now that this is just a waste of money in nearly every case. Buy good wireless APs (see "buy refurbs" above). This is one exception to the previous-generation rule of thumb above (I've just put in Netgear WNDR3700, bought from advice given in responses to someone else's Ask Slashdot question, and couldn't be happier ... highly flexible, plenty of signal, fast assocation, dual band, and all of the interference problems from neighbors, etc., have disappeared).

      Cable is still worth it, especially if you ever want to stream HD/3D video from a media server. Don't count on interference staying away either, remember most people use the router supplied by their ISP which means they mostly have 802.11g now but all new installs will be 802.11n. Your neighbours will want to stream HD video too, and in a few years the congestion will be just as bad as G.

      When moving in you have a golden opportunity to run cables before furniture and life gets in the way. Take it, you won't regret it. Wireless you can set up any time.

      You might want to look at a cheap CCTV system with a little LCD screen somewhere so that you can see who is at the front door. You could have a camera overlooking your garden/yard so that you can watch your future kids playing from indoors on your TV or in the kitchen. You could even have a camera in your baby's room as a high end baby monitor. If you want to do it on a real shoestring budget you could have a single wireless camera and just physically move it to the area you want to keep an eye on, and get an indoor one pointed out of a window as they are cheaper than outdoor rated ones.

      Automatic lighting for your porch is always a good one, and cheap too. If you want to be flashy solar LED lighting in the garden or LED strips to mark your drive way can look good. If you have a garage you can get lights that change colour to warn you when your car is close to the wall, or make some yourself. Remote garage door opener kits are not too expensive either.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    5. Re:Buy Used by Tyrannosaur · · Score: 1

      Domestic harmony is more important than any gadget.

      This is the wisest thing I've heard yet in a comment. Follow this advice first.

    6. Re:Buy Used by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Lots of people will tell you to put in wires in the walls. Wireless APs are so good now that this is just a waste of money in nearly every case. Buy good wireless APs

      Wires still have (and probably always will have) lower latency, lower jitter, higher bitrate, and greater reliability. And a wired connection will never be slowed down by interference with some other transmitter, or by objects between you and the AP.

      And since wired networking is in some respects a simpler and more mature technology, and is widely used for critical applications, the drivers and hardware are more likely to actually work properly rather than just being "good enough that a normal user won't notice it sucks", and the hardware is more likely to be reliably supported on more operating systems.

    7. Re:Buy Used by Hyperhaplo · · Score: 1

      I live on wireless at the moment.

      Put cat5 in. Even if it is only 4 ports per room, switched in a central location.

      Cat5 can be a right pain to install later.

      --
      You have a sick, twisted mind. Please subscribe me to your newsletter.
    8. Re:Buy Used by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lots of people will tell you to put in wires in the walls. Wireless APs are so good now that this is just a waste of money in nearly every case.

      Edge case might be certain urban areas, where you get dozens of routers, baby monitors and wireless security cams, cordless phones, and microwaves jammed in close proximity. Even the 5Ghz band can get crowded.

      If you're really unlucky, you might even end up with some semi-technically literate yahoos nearby cranking up their broadcast power to try to out-shout everyone else.

    9. Re:Buy Used by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Cat6 would be better, along with conduit if you can so it can be upgraded later. Also, STP rather than UTP works wonders in a house.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    10. Re:Buy Used by Hyperhaplo · · Score: 1

      Ahhh, agreed on the conduits but have to be careful how to align them and to draw a map of where they are. Can be a pain to get back in once the walls are put up.

      STP? Really? Examples? You have clocked the speeds? or have specific interference issues?

      I've only ever used CAT5 / CAT5e UTP .. but am willing to learn something new here.. is there a cost benefit here I am missing?
      From memory last time I looked (ages ago) CAT5 STP was 3 or 4 times the price of UTP .. hence why no one bothered.

      I've never had an issue with UTP .. but then that is probably just my YMMV.

      Never used or even seen CAT6. Then again, last time I purchased CAT5 was about 5 years ago :)

      Speaking from experience with the bountifulness of unshielded coax and the sheer frustrations that can cause.. I know of the shielded vs unshielded issues. Just never seen an issue with CAT5.

      --
      You have a sick, twisted mind. Please subscribe me to your newsletter.
    11. Re:Buy Used by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Cat6 is used in gigabit networking, so using it now is a good idea. When prices of cat7 come down, I will suggest the same thing for that. Even if you aren't running gigabit, network installs tend to stay in place for a long time, so getting the best that is affordable is worthwhile.

      The benefits of STP over UTP is that STP when done right receives no interference. When you are running multiple cables in a wall to a jack, they can actually receive interference from each other, so even if you don't see the impact, it can be there. Also, with different radio sources in close confines, you will pick up more interference there too (microwave, TV, wireless phones/network, even the relays in your AC unit can cause problems). Even the power in your house can cause interference from the cycling of the voltage inherent in AC.

      Price difference isn't so much anymore:

      STP: http://www.amazon.com/Shielded-Waterproof-Direct-Ethernet-Cable/dp/B0056K1IIM $214/1000 foot
      UTP: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0058TZDGY/ref=s9_simh_gw_p147_d0_g147_i2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=02FX2XMFDF5QNSKEG1F2&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846 $164.99/1000 foot

      These are the same manufacturer and quality. The main difference will be in the endpoints if you properly terminate, the patch panels and ends are about double the price, and take longer to terminate.

      As far as unshielded coax, I didn't think that was possible, you use the core for signal, and the shield is the ground, it is built into the cable. I didn't think you could get unshielded coax. For the most part, the network card and switch will deal with interference, and often well enough that you don't notice, but it can cause jitter, retransmits, and an overall increase in latency.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  32. Why for your friends, and not for you? by Neil_Brown · · Score: 3, Informative

    I guess it depends on what your friends like, and why you want to impress them. I enjoy tinkering, and have been gradually adding bits and pieces, but nothing designed to impress anyone other than me.

    Playing on the Wii — four player Mario Kart, in particular — with the image projected across the lounge, is something which people seem to enjoy, though; pretty cheap (a bog standard, non-HD projector cost me about £220 about five years ago), and great fun. Just find some games which are easy enough to pick up and play, and get everyone involved, and you're off... I wouldn't put that together just to impress others, though, but it is quite good fun all the same.

    The bought-broken-on-eBay-but-fixed-with-a-screwdriver Roomba is quite cool, but doesn't get as much use as I'd like, as my girlfriend is not a great fan of it. It doesn't save me much time either, to be honest, as, when I run it, I tend to stand marveling at it...

    Personally, the things I find the coolest are music streamed into which ever room I want, controllable via my phone (AirTunes... nothing fancy here), and being able to select any movie and have it streamed through the projector (Apple TV and iTunes on server currently, although previously via a PS3 and a share on the server). Again, neither is fancy, but they both work a treat.

    The remotely-controlled lighting was relatively inexpensive, but my setup is not free of bugs yet — I'm using HomeEasy switches, and a small RF dongle (TellStick) plugged in the back of a Linux machine, and, whilst it means I can easily control the lighting from a web browser, and easily automate when I'm away from home, I have not yet managed to get one transmission controlling just one light. Switching off the lounge lighting via the console / interface switches off the light in the kitchen and so on. A real nuisance, and one which I need to spend more time trying to resolve.

    (Cameras around the house were the only things that raised objections, although agreeing on placement solved that problem.)

    1. Re:Why for your friends, and not for you? by Neil_Brown · · Score: 1

      Perhaps worth adding — I have not had the walls up, and don't want cables everywhere, so everything is wireless. DVDs (not Blu-Ray) get ripped to around 1.2GB each, and stream over the Wi-Fi system. I haven't had a problem with this, and so would see whether a wireless solution would suit your needs.

    2. Re:Why for your friends, and not for you? by HaveNoMouth · · Score: 1
      I've gone through three Roombas and won't buy any more. They take too much care and feeding -- even the ones that automatically recharge themselves. The reservoir is too small so you have to dump it too often, and after a year the battery won't hold a charge and you have to replace it -- for $100. And you periodically have to take the whole thing apart because the moving parts are all gummed up with cat hair. (You have to do this even more often if you actually have a cat.

      Just get a Dyson and use it. It works.

  33. Raceways, even! by ancarett · · Score: 2

    Yup, you'll appreciate having room for growth built into the system. Unobtrusive raceways (many can be worked right into the molding either above or at ground level) allows you to upgrade or update your wiring and cable options. Make sure you're not overloading circuits while you're at it. Even some more recent builds are shockingly undersupplied for power needs. Getting a licensed electrician whenever you mess with your wiring is only smart, too. Your house is a big investment. Do it right!

    If your guests bring their own tech, make sure you have robust internet access that's easy for them to use. One room in our house remained a frustrating slow spot so we ran a wired connection to the router for that desktop PC. Otherwise, we can offer good Wifi. I keep cards with guest access info so new visitors can add themselves to the network.

    --
    ancarett, historian and zombie gamer
    1. Re:Raceways, even! by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 2

      "Getting a licensed electrician whenever you mess with your wiring is only smart, too."

      My butt. Wiring a house is inherently very simple, especially these days with outlets you plug the wires straight into, and good wire nuts. The only reason for a "licensed" electrician is to keep them making Union wages.

      I've wired a number of houses, and haven't burned one down yet. Find out what the code in your area is, and use one standard gauge larger wire. (I.e., if code mandates 14 g wire use 12 g.) It's slightly more expensive but it will last for years.

      Put in more electrical outlets than code calls for, and never use a breaker larger than code calls for.

      The only other tools you need are a good hefty pair of needle nose pliers with side cutter, a pocket knife, heavy duty wire stripper, and a flat blade screwdriver.

      Wiring a home is simpler than learning how to program a VCR (if anybody even remembers those, these days). Licenses are a joke.

    2. Re:Raceways, even! by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      (P.S. When I say "put in more outlets than code calls for", I don't mean more outlets per breaker. I mean more circuits and more breakers.)

    3. Re:Raceways, even! by HaveNoMouth · · Score: 1

      Yeah. 12-gauge wire rather than 14 for all power outlets has saved my ass numerous times. (Coupled with a 20-A breaker rather than 15, of course.)

  34. Get a life by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    You should grow up. There are much more important things that the stuff you're thinking about.

    I know you think that stuff is important, but your wife and kids will appreciate it if you grow as a person.

    1. Re:Get a life by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1, Funny

      You should grow up. There are much more important things that the stuff you're thinking about.

      I know you think that stuff is important, but your wife and kids will appreciate it if you grow as a person.

      I get the vibe you're jealous.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
  35. Have fun by euxle · · Score: 1

    Put at least two fully patched ethernet outlets in any room. Create an infrastructure star with a centralized "server room".
    Make sure to have enough power outlets in each room. Check wire quality and fuses.
    For sensors you want to look into 1-wire technology. This is the cheapest way to measure temperature or count usage of e.g. water, natural gas and power.
    Think a lot about energy and consumption like heating support with solar thermal water heating or insulating the whole house.
    Also check tubes and water outlets.
    Consider the need of security elements like sensors and cameras. Power over ethernet might come handy.
    Look into combined house automation technologies like Konnex/EIB or EnOcean or z-wave. But be aware, this stuff gets expensive.

    Welcome to a never ending playground.

    I suggest you start implementing stuff that saves you money, like optimizing your energy consumption and monitoring that.

  36. Main Considerations by az1324 · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you DIY you can probably accomplish a lot for under $10k and the pros would probably charge you 10x that for similar functionality. The following categories should represent the major considerations:

    Infrastructure - How are you going to connect everything?
    - WiFi Everywhere
    - Server box for storage & to run some home automation software & scripts (small embedded linux or more powerful)
    - Main equipment location & as much distributed wiring as you can do cheaply & easily yourself

    Entertainment - From where will your source content & how will you present it?
    - LCD/Plasma Monitors
    - Multiroom audio
    - Rokus or other cheap streaming boxes?
    - Whole House DVR systems from cable/satellite? (Dish Hopper/Joey, etc...)
    - HDHomeRun or other DVR capture cards?
    - A/V matrix switches & distribution? (monoprice)
    - Programmable remotes (ipads, cheap android tablets, logitech harmony, etc...)

    Comfort & Convenience
    - Lighting (X10, Z-Wave, Insteon, UPB, etc..)
    - HVAC (thermostats)
    - In-house communications (intercoms, pbx)
    - Misc automation (window shading, garage doors, locks, etc...)
    - Weather/Environmental sensors (oregon scientific, lacrosse)
    - Programmable remotes (ipads, cheap android tablets, logitech harmony, etc...)

    Security
    - Alarm system (2gig, honeywell, etc..)
    - Cameras & DVR

    The wow factor usually comes from complex actions resulting from simple inputs (scripting) so plan ahead for how everything is going to work together & communicate (sticking to fewer protocols will be easier, though maybe not always cheaper). Have a controller/server you can program yourself and don't get locked in to a proprietary system.

    IMHO, a bunch of ipads plastered into the walls really aren't that useful or impressive so skip that.

    1. Re:Main Considerations by rdnetto · · Score: 1

      If you DIY you can probably accomplish a lot for under $10k and the pros would probably charge you 10x that for similar functionality.

      This is probably the best advice you'll get on the topic. Systems targeted to the average consumer have a price proportional to their coolness/desirability, because that's what the market will pay. Components targeted at the DIY crowd are sold at cost, though in other cases you may get a better deal simply by taking an existing consumer product and repurposing it. In a nutshell, the hacker spirit is key to keeping your costs down.

      I suggest you look at some of the home automation standards, and learn how to work with an Arduino* (these are great if you're comfortable with C but have virtually no electronics experience). Those two alone will handle pretty much every form of interaction with the physical environment you can think of. (If Arduino's aren't powerful enough, use a Raspberry Pi or a Beaglebone.) The user interface can be handled by grabbing some cheap, Chinese Android tablets (they can be had for as little as $80, though keep in mind they won't be GPL compliant), and using either a custom app or a simple HTML5 interface. (The same interface could easily be made available on any existing Android devices.)

      * The cost of the parts for an Arduino is a fifth of the retail cost. Most wireless chips do tend to be a bit pricier, more so if you go for a shield, and the SMD packages are a pain to solder. The easiest way to handle connectivity is probably a single wireless device per room, with all other nodes there sending data through it via wired (I2C) connections. (Don't forget to shield these if they're next to the mains!) Ethernet would be easier and cheaper if you make that device a RasPi (since they cost about as much as an Arduino with built-in Ethernet) , but then you need to ensure you've got the requisite cabling (which IMO is well worth the additional effort).

      You're going to want a low power system to act as the server; to coordinate all the data being received, to act as a file server, etc. A Raspberry Pi might be a good fit for this if you don't need much storage (no SATA support currently), or maybe something more like a Sheeva plug. Alternatively, you could combine this with the HTPC if you go down that route (just keep in mind that you're going to need an unobtrusive way to connect it to that monster network).

      Also, make sure you document everything. You're going to want this in ten years time when one of the nodes isn't working and you have no idea what exactly you did. Keeping backups of the source code and schematics goes without saying.

      You could easily do a lot of cool stuff with a budget of ~$500 (excl. tablets and HTPC); the only real limits are your ability and imagination.

      --
      Most human behaviour can be explained in terms of identity.
  37. Plan for a short sale now by vlm · · Score: 1, Insightful

    about to take on the next big adventure: home ownership

    Bad time to buy. Run like hell.

    1) Multi-generational low interest rates mean they'll inevitably increase. Increasing rates = declining home prices. My parents bought the equivalent of a mcmansion for only $80K (not 8M, not 800K) during the peak of the 70s-80s stagflation when I was a kid, 20% interest rates and all. Needless to say the price exploded as rates dropped to normal. You'll be experiencing the reverse effect as rates increase... home price implodes. If you're planning to live there for the entire mortgage, then you'll merely get a legendarily bad deal, but if you have to move you'll probably be underwater, welcome to foreclosure and bankruptcy.

    2) The % of the population employed has been steadily and permanently dropping. The odds of your being able to make a mortgage payment, every month, for 25 years, is about the same as the odds of having the same job at the same company for 25 years. On a "tech board" like this we know all about ageism... after 40 no one is ever going to hire you to do tech, so you either need to contract or greet at walmart or retrain into ... something.

    3) For at least 40 years the median inflation adjusted income has been dropping. That means the median person's housing budget has been dropping. That means that aside from govt intervention, etc, the price of median real estate must drop. Essentially you're buying an asset whos value is guaranteed to drop over time.

    4) Kids are much cheaper than houses, the payments are generally much more flexible and predictable, and the "contract" theoretically ends at 18 instead of 25 or 30 years. You skipped a step on the plan. Ease into a commitment toward debt slavery. Actually you probably skipped two steps... start with a pet, like a housecat, see if she's all bonkers maternal instinct on the cat, then if its all good squirt out some kids, then do the landed estate thing.

    5) Everyone who gets married thinks their relationship is "special" and "forever" but half of them end up divorced anyway. The odds are actually better than you'll be divorced than you'll be married forever. A house just complicates things, a "high tech" house complicates further.

    Arguments for:

    1) A commissioned salesperson thinks today is a great time to buy. For a good laugh ask your barber how often to get a haircut.

    2) People used to make lots of money buying and selling real estate. Well, they made a lot of money selling horse carriages, and working on industrial assembly lines, and being travel agents. Would not advise entering real estate in 2012 anymore than I'd advise becoming a travel agent.

    So here's the deal. In the long run the price of the house is going to drop. I don't think a fancy thermostat and/or sound system is going to offset that. At some point when you own the house you'll be unemployed and minimizing your expenses (electrical bill, credit card bill, monthly subscriptions) is the key to survival. In the future, even during good times, you'll have less money, either lower bottom line income, inflation, etc. Needless to say, when I bought my house, I was not paying $5/gallon for gas... The majority outcome in the medium term is you'll be trying to figure out what to do with the house at a divorce proceeding.

    Theoretical plan based on the above: Only invest in fixed non-removable stuff that save you money every month. Fancy insulation, triple pane windows, high efficiency appliances. Do not put something "unmovable" into the house, because you'll be removing it a heck of a lot sooner than you think, so forget whole house audio etc. Plug in X10/Insteon stuff, OK. Wired in X10/Insteon, not OK. Ethernet patch cable thru hole in floor OK, permanent house wiring that'll just get ripped out by the next owner, not OK. Never install or purchase anything with a monthly subscription or increased monthly cost because you'll probably not be able to afford it in the f

    --
    "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    1. Re:Plan for a short sale now by JustNiz · · Score: 1

      You remind me of an old lady I used to know. She used candles and eat cold food and didn't heat her house rather than pay for electricity. Everyone presumed she was dirt poor.
      After she died they found her mattress was stuffed with literally millions of dollars.

    2. Re:Plan for a short sale now by vlm · · Score: 1

      I think my point is that getting into real estate is currently financial self-destruction, which is OK if you're planning on it and really wanna do it and you're going in eyes wide open.

      However, I can think of much more fun/interesting ways to commit financial self-destruction... found a dotcom... open a restaurant... try to become a (legal or illegal) farmer... travel the world... go to law school... go to Vegas and live it up... booze, women, booze and women, two women at one time, two boozes at one time... illegal drugs... Destroying your financial future by purchasing a house in 2012 sounds like possibly the most boring possible way to go.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    3. Re:Plan for a short sale now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Essentially you're buying an asset whos value is guaranteed to drop over time."

      I guess you don't own a car then either.

    4. Re:Plan for a short sale now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One thing you skip over in talking about the coming drop in real estate pricing due to higher interest rates is that the main driver there is that the drop means the total cost inclusive of the mortgage remains fairly static. That means that whether you buy now or buy later, the same house will be worth what it is worth in 30 years and you'll have paid about the same amount of money to pay it off. True, early payment can have a greater effect when rates are high, but I suspect the drop off in price may not quite offset the increased cost in loans due to real estate seeming cheap. Buying a house is not an investment so much as a lifestyle choice - you are essentially prepaying partial rent for in retirement as houses' maintenance and tax costs partially make up for not paying rent.

    5. Re:Plan for a short sale now by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      The current low interest rates mean that the cost of purchasing a house (not the actual price of the house) is not likely to be lower any time soon. Throw in the pent up demand and likely increases in inflation in the future and the fact is that it is pretty likely that you will wish you bought a house when they were cheap....

    6. Re:Plan for a short sale now by vlm · · Score: 1

      The current low interest rates mean that the cost of purchasing a house (not the actual price of the house) is not likely to be lower any time soon.

      That makes no sense. The transaction cost of purchasing is around 6% in a cash deal, obviously higher if a mortgage is involved. The lower the price of the house, the lower the cost of the transaction. The cost per month of a mortgage is always (optimistically) going to be around 1/3 monthly takehome pay. Low interest rates merely mean the amount financed will be higher.

      The problem with inflation is if you want/expect home prices to increase, you need monthly takehome pay to increase so the banks share (a third or whatever) can increase, or you need the interest rate to drop. Neither is likely in the future, if anything the opposite. I suppose if you think wages are going up, and interest rates are dropping further...

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    7. Re:Plan for a short sale now by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 2

      The cost per month of a mortgage is typically 33% because that's the most a reasonable underwriting policy will allow.

      As far as inflation, it's a given. Right now it's low, but that's typical in this point in an economic cycle. That's why home buying is generally attractive during recessions, and quite often home purchases are the first signs of economic recoveries. The current housing crash has really made a mess of things because banks got burnt, making buying a house hard.

      With the national debt and actions the Fed has been taking to artificially suppress interest rates it's pretty clear that there will be increased inflation in the future.

      Wages often lag inflation but ultimately they go up too. If the economy really gets booming wages can actually be the primary contributing factor to inflation.

      Here is an interesting analysis of the current situation w.r.t. wages and inflation:

      http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/05/19/should-the-fed-be-worried-about-wage-inflation/

      Over the past 100 years or so the dollar has lost 98% of it's value due to inflation. When you buy a house one of the benefits is paying it off in future dollars. With the extraordinary low interest rates it will be fewer future dollars. My first house had a mortgage payment of $343 per month. As I progressed in my career inflation plus advancement caused that payment to end up being less than 5% of my monthly salary. Now I have no mortgage, and my property taxes are twice what my original mortgage payment was.

      I would sure hate to be renting now.

      Renters get screwed because they have to pay on a current cost basis.

      Now it may take a decade for things to normalize because the excesses were really large, but already it is already starting to look like there is a lot of pent up demand for houses, and in almost all markets the classical buy or rent calculation is firmly pointing to buy.

  38. Children! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You and the OP should get together and play video games sometime. Sounds like your both about the same age. Lol

  39. Get a good sound calibration system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Get a receiver with Audyssey MultiEQ calibration and calibrate your room. This is the most impressive thing you can do to improve sound in your room short of installing sound absorbing panels anywhere. They're also not that expensive these days. I got a low-end Dennon that had it and the Okyno ones are also quite good.

  40. Make it wife-friendly by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Make sure whatever you do, it's wife-friendly (unless your wife is an uber-geek).

    If your wife is typical, when she wants to watch TV she wants to press "ON" on a remote, then select the channel that's running Glee. She doesn't want to boot a Linux box, mount a fileshare and browse a bunch of torrents. Similarly, if the house is cold she wants to bump up the thermostat, not telnet into the furnace from a PC that doesn't have a case that lives in the garage.

    1. Re:Make it wife-friendly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is exactly why Logitech Harmony remotes were invented...cause the wife doesn't want to use 3 remotes to turn on devices, change the inputs and adjust the channel.

      Even for your own sake, you probably want to make it seamless and easy to use, anyway. I mean, who wants to spend 5 minutes making adjustments to something like a media center setup when you can just plop on the couch and press one button?

  41. Achievable More Today than Ever in History by Praxiteles · · Score: 2

    Given Moore's Law and the "Innovator's Dilemma", commoditization, industry liquidation, and the trend of "half the price and smaller" every 18-24 months (even faster for genomics technology), more technology is reaching the price point you need at a faster pace than ever.

    Consider just one option: -iPod/iPhone Light Switches: Though you may not be able to put iPads in every room, I just checked eBay and first, second, and third generation iPods and iPhones are selling for $50-$100. With a little programming, a lot of potential becomes possible. Your light switches could control not only your lights but your sound system as well. Every light switch could show the time, the weather for the day, your favorite stocks, and the latest post from your FaceBook Wall or Tweet. The latest iOS Framework supports face tracking which is trivial to implement. Add that to some of the facial image recognition libraries and a well placed iPhone camera in your foyer could cue your favorite music the moment you arrive home. Add photos of your friends to the system and now whenever a guest looks at a light switch, the system could recognize their face and show their favorite stocks or posts from their FB wall.

    A single technology pervasively applied could create a compelling impression yet at a budget price.

    Just don't be surprised if you find your guests at parties clustered around your light switches playing Angry Birds.

  42. CocoonTech by xplosiv · · Score: 2

    Check out CocoonTech.com, a site dedicated to home automation, home security, and all the other fun stuff, DIY style (but plenty of professionals hang out there as well). That said, I hope you aren't doing it for your friends, you need to enjoy the home yourself ;)

    There is also the Wiring Your New House guide in case you have access to the walls and want to future proof your home.

  43. Tech grows old fast - so make it detachable.... by aurizon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    and updateable. Nothing looks worse than a tired high-tech house. How soon the latest 1,200 baud modems become scrap, same with flat screens etc. Once I have built it in, how soon before I must rip it out and update because a high tech troll dissed my dated designcraft...

    I would think that 2 inch plastic pipe hidden in the walls would allow you to remove and wire up with better fiber etc. It will also allow seamless mousehole-to-mousehole traffic, so get a cat or three - they never go out of date!!!

    1. Re:Tech grows old fast - so make it detachable.... by abirdman · · Score: 2

      This is the most realistic post here. Mortgages last 30 years. Tech lasts 10 years. And predicting the next generation of tech is an inexact science. Lots of people (myself included) will install older, cheaper recycled tech, making the half-life even less. I have friends who own a 60's-70's era home built with "revolutionary" electrical conveniences so that all the wiring passes through a central part of the house through proprietary and hopelessly obsolete electrical equipment, and electricians won't work on it. They've rewired around most of it, but it still causes problems.

      Also think about how much energy you'll expend trying to maintain in working order some old WindowsXP laptop and wifi link required to activate the generator circuit in the back of the house in case the power goes out. Tech is great today, but can have a bumpy life cycle, and its replacement is almost guaranteed to be laughably incompatible. Just keeping batteries charged is a PITA.

      --
      Everything I've ever learned the hard way was based on a statistically invalid sample.
  44. do some engineering analysis first!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You'll get plenty of suggestions as to what will ostensibly save money down the road. Carefully analyze it FOR YOUR SITUATION. Sometimes, the comparison in the literature is today's whiz-bang gadget against "the average widget" in the entire US. Look at your energy and resource costs and environmental conditions in your area (Im in SoCal is different than coastal Maine or Minnesota) Examples from a house built in 1997-1998

    Cases in point:
    Tankless hot water. - Right now, natural gas is *cheap* and it is likely to stay that way for at least 10 years. If you have (or are going to have) children, you consume a lot of hot water, all at one time (yes, 2 teenage daughters, etc.). Tankless is great for one person at a time showers, not so hot for laundry+2 showers+ dishwasher, unless you radically scale up. And conventional tanked hot water heaters these days (with insulating blanket and modern ignitors) don't burn that much gas "keeping the tank hot". (and you could always put a timer on the burner to shut down during the middle of the day). Ditto, solar panels. Today, gas is so cheap that the payback period for solar panels is decades And the maintenance for the panel system is bigger. If I had to make hot water with oil or coal or (god forbid) electricity... it would be different.

    Electrical power - in my house, in the winter, the two big loads are: refrigerator, lighting. But lighting is only when people are home in the evening. I had all sorts of plans for automatic timers, etc. But a bit of measurement (Kill-A-Watt on the refrigerator, TV, etc.) showed that lighting was less than 20% of the total load, and fancy switching might reduce that to 15%. Summer, the big load is AC. But that's mostly determined by factors beyond my control (e.g. the outside temperature). A higher SEER AC might help, but running the statistics showed, not really, for our area.

    Appliances - Front load washing machine is *a lot* better than top load in both water and electrical consumption. But, how long is the payback period on a $1000 purchase? Refrigerator.. same sort of thing. If your refrigerator was bought in the last 10 years, the new ones aren't *that* much more efficient. If you're using an avocado colored beast you got from your parents 30 years ago... yeah, a new refrigerator might not be a bad idea. But again, you're talking $1000

    Insulation - i wanted to aircondition my garage to make it comfortable in the summer to work out there. So I immediately assumed I'd need to go on a insulation frenzy. But a big of calculation showed that running the airconditioner the few hours longer to make up for the poor insulation would cost something like $20-50/year (it's just not that big a space 20x20 ft, and the number of days/hours when the outside air temp is above 80 isn't all that many). Am I willing to invest several thousand dollars worth of time to go through the process of insulating.. nope.

    Moral of the story.. don't take the "conventional wisdom" as the analysis. Your situation, and your power rates and climate, will be different.

    1. Re:do some engineering analysis first!! by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      When considering a hot water heater, think about how important it is to have hot water when the electricity fails.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  45. Get a NEST... by D-OveRMinD · · Score: 1

    Seriously...now that you're married, possibly have a family later, etc, start thinking about cool gadgets that are more than cool. Gadgets that will save you money, help monitor your home, etc. Practical gadgets. The very first thing I would add would be a NEST Thermostat. It is so unbelievably cool looking, will mesmerize your friends, and will keep you comfortable year round while saving piles of money on heating and cooling bills. Plus it's always cool to be able to track and make changes to stuff like this from your web browser or phone from anywhere. It's a real conversation piece. Read about it and watch the videos here: http://www.nest.com/

  46. Just buy boxes by Boawk · · Score: 1

    of miscellaneous technical gear, then host an IETF conference at your house.

  47. microcontrollers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    arduinos, msps, and even the raspberry pi now that it's sort of here ... ... cheap ways to replace thermostats, home security systems, and sprinkler systems with something that you can fine tune and save some $$

  48. Cool is fine, but it needs to be useful first by BilGe · · Score: 1

    All this discussion about tankless water heaters is interesting, but you will get FAR more bang for your buck by dumping more insulation in the attic, replacing drafty windows, weather stripping doors etc. None of this is going to wow your friends until you start comparing utilitiy bills. I added a layer of R-19 unfaced batts to my attic in late 1999. Payback in lower gas and electric bills was less than 6 months, and it has been free money since then.

    For cool stuff on not too much money, I suggest setting up some X-10 controllers and using your computer to run them. It's not hard to do and costs only a few hundred dollars for the basics. You can set up porch lights to run on a sudown-sunup schedule. Set internal night lights to turn on at bedtime. Set your coffee pot to turn on a half-hour before you have breakfast.

    A weather station is also cool but will set you back $400 or $500. Connect it to a computer and publish it on the Internet.

    It is possible to get a thermostat in every room, then set up a control system so that conditioned air goes only to rooms that need it. The vents are controlled by inflatable bags so they can let air go only where it is needed. No clue how much it would cost, probably quite a bit.

  49. You do know it's April 1, right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Today was a bad day to ask that question and expect useful answers!

  50. So why did you get married? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting
    Now a woman owns you, and you want a house to own you too? Make no mistake, home "ownership" is an illusion created to keep you on that treadmilll. It owns YOU. Far from being an investment, it's a continual expense of repairs, taxes, fees and interest. And when you lose your job and need some security the most, a house will NOT offer you ANY protection. Renting and being able to save money every month, that's the way to go. If you lose your house, you lose everything you paid into it. You miss your rent, you get kicked out but still have your money. Which is better? Homeless and broke, or homeless with money?

    What's next? Kids? And you still think you are free to do what you want? You bought into society's little mold. Have fun playing a role while you wither inside.

    1. Re:So why did you get married? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quick! All the married men! Grin through your teeth and mod me down while the wife watches!

  51. You cant. by Lumpy · · Score: 1

    Sorry kid, but Good, Fast, Cheap. Pick any two.

    You dont have the software skills and Electronics engineering skills to build it yourself, so the Cheap option is out.

    You need to BUY Crestron or AMX for the real stuff that impresses friends. anything else will get them unimpressed when your X10 does not work, or your cobbled together setup fail yet again.

    I know people that can set up up, Less than $28,000 for whole house audio, all lights controlled, and 4" color touchscreens everywhere + ipad control. Add another $20,000 for whole house HDMI distribution using Crestron DM (the only 16X16 HDMI matrix mixer that actually works with HDCP) and you can watch anything in any room. with only a TV in the room and all the cruddy gear in a rack in the utility room.

    If you want a real high tech home, you gotta have money or be an electronics engineer and have really exceptional coding skills in embedded systems.

    And no, none of the wireless systems work 100%. You will also need to run wires everywhere inside the walls. That's the easy part.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  52. Tips for a New House by deadwill69 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    After many years in a house and many more years in the industry, here are a few things I've discovered through experience and many professionals: Do not pay extra on your mortgage. While you will feel better watching your balance drop, your bank will not care. Miss a payment and watch all those extra dollars and equity disappear. Better: place the money in a savings account. When the balances equal, pay off the house. In the meantime, you will have the money in the bank in case of job loss, medical emergency, or home improvement. Being able to pay the mortgage in a crisis is more important than the balance. Do not by nifty gadgets. They will never pay for themselves. Solar roof fans? 35 years to break even. Expected life is 10 years. They are only there for your enjoyment and look at them as such. Appliances: your most efficient appliance is the one you already have. Don't replace it until it breaks. Then by the most efficient one you can. Spend your money on the most efficient things you can afford. Do not get behind on maintenance. You will find yourself quickly paying more to fix your house than it is worth. Buy a programmable thermostat. This will pay for itself in a couple of months. Ensure your house is weather sealed. This and the thermostat can easily cut your heating and cooling in half. Don't over do it though. You'll find yourself spending lots to make the house livable again with air exchangers/circulators etc. Unless you spend top dollar, an instant hot water heater is a disappointing luxury. By things that make you happy. You will be in the house a long time, but don't do it with money savings in mind. You'll get more satisfaction out of a kick-ass stereo/home theatre than some lights you can turn on remotely. Light timers are way cheaper and do the same thing at a fraction of the cost. Oh, and get you a good lawn mower, step ladder, 10-in-1 screwdriver, hammer, and inexpensive cordless drill.

    1. Re:Tips for a New House by tunapez · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Buy a programmable thermostat. This will pay for itself in a couple of months.

      A note of caution on Programmable Tstats on tiered power plans: When you set it 'on' for 7PM(when off-peak pricing begins), plenty of 'smart' systems will anticipate and run the compressor full bore for a period(20/40/60 minutes) of on-peak usage to have the temp at the desired temp when that time comes. Getting into a diagnostics mode and disabling this 'feature' is recommended or you may be surprised to find the exact opposite of savings. Honeywell calls their service Adaptive Intelligent Recovery(AIR), must get into setup mode to disable. YMMV..

      --
      Imagination drew in bold strokes, instantly serving hopes and fears, while knowledge advanced by slow increments...
    2. Re:Tips for a New House by sylvandb · · Score: 1

      Do not pay extra on your mortgage. While you will feel better watching your balance drop, your bank will not care. Miss a payment and watch all those extra dollars and equity disappear. Better: place the money in a savings account. When the balances equal, pay off the house. In the meantime, you will have the money in the bank in case of job loss, medical emergency, or home improvement. Being able to pay the mortgage in a crisis is more important than the balance.

      This is incredibly important and very few people seem to know it. Keep your cash. The closer you are to paying off your mortgage, the better it will be for the bank to repossess your house. If you owe a lot relative to the value, or better yet are underwater, the bank doesn't want your house.

      Keeping the extra cash yourself is excellent insurance, but you MUST KEEP THE CASH, DON'T SPEND IT!

      To get a better return you can lock up your cash in CDs (Ally Bank used to have the shortest interest penalty if you have to access early a 5yr CD) or iBonds (no access at all for the first year, 3 month penalty the next 4 years, no state income taxes, other possible tax advantages). Some people keep the extra cash in a high yield checking account, but that doesn't work for me.

  53. MythTV and Zoneminder by Locutus · · Score: 1

    setup your own DVR from which you can easily extract any video you've recorded( ie share clips with friends/family when something interesting is seen ). The next is Zoneminder which is a home video security system which you can use to know when the mail has been delivered, when the dog ate, when the dog ate your couch, etc. Zoneminder can use video feeds from IP cameras, web/usb cams, or with a capture card CCTV cameras.

    Throw in a few X10 modules for a little fun with lighting control.

    All that is pretty cheap to do with extra computer boxes around and for just a few hundred bucks for some cameras and wiring.

    LoB

    --
    "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
  54. Going further... by Kupfernigk · · Score: 2
    It used to be reckoned in the UK that engineers bought to last. The result was that, 10 years or so into their marriages, they were better off than other people on similar incomes who bought for fashion.

    The other thing is that, with time, good quality stuff is getting relatively more expensive. The relative price of hardwoods, real stone and so on is constantly rising. Therefore, buying good furniture as soon as you can afford it costs much less in the long run.

    The best things for a high tech house are excellent insulation, properly designed ventilation, solar PV panels where appropriate, low maintenance walls and flooring. And learn to do some of it yourself where labor costs are high.

    Incidentally, I paid off my mortgage 18 years ago. Each subsequent move, we have paid the difference in cash. Until you have done it, you cannot imagine how worth while it will seem once you have saved to pay off the mortgage; the simple fact that you are no longer desperate to keep your job in a recession is worth more than all the toys combined.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
    1. Re:Going further... by sisukapalli1 · · Score: 1

      ... once you have saved to pay off the mortgage; the simple fact that you are no longer desperate to keep your job in a recession is worth more than all the toys combined.

      In US, with rising property taxes, those taxes can be more than the rest of the mortgage payment, especially in some "good school districts". So, there is no solution to the desperation :). The definition of "own a house" becomes long term renting if one doesn't want to sell the house (or cannot find a buyer).

  55. Unlikely by Kupfernigk · · Score: 2

    I can tell you with considerably confidence that insulating our walls and greatly improving the attic insulation reduced heating loss by around 40%. We have also done the other stuff (high efficiency German water heater, pipe insulation, high efficiency oven and heating stove) and installed solar PV. The result is that our net energy consumption excluding vehicles costs around $600 a year, a saving of roughly $2000, for a total investment of around $20000. A ten year payback may not sound that good, but the investment has a lifecycle of roughly 25 years and energy costs are only going up.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
  56. Arduino by sprior · · Score: 1

    Arduino, lots and lots of Arduinos. They're cheap and can be used for lots of stuff.

  57. get cool tech not just high-dollar tech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It doesn't take many trick ideas before your friends will be impressed--by doing simple hacks with low-dollar components, you can make some pretty sweet stuff.

    Here are some cheap examples:
    - cheap university computers + networking + older decent-quality surround sound components + a good NAS + a good Internet connection + cheap webcams = security system that can be broadcast onto the projector or any of the monitors around the house.
    - how about a locking drawer for the remote control? Install a few magnetic switches installed under a chess board, and magnets in a few pieces. Only in the pieces are in the right spot can the drawer be opened.
    - install a car alarm to an electronic lock on the door so when you walk away from the house and hit your fob, the car alarm near the door chirps and the porch lights flash. An old car alarm = cheap. Electronic lock = can't be much. All the rest is software-controlled.

    In general, software can be your friend for innovation. It would be totally awesome, for example, to be able to hit a button on a remote control if you are in the middle of a game in order to stop the microwave. Your nearby friend pees his pants. It doesn't take much to be able to press a few buttons on a keyboard in the kitchen and make the lights turn on and annoying music play loudly in order to sleepyhead kids out of bed. Um... that may be way down the line though.

    Also, smartphone or old Blackberry = remote control.

    As a final note, pursuing something that will be the envy of others is a failing effort, as nothing will cause wonder forever. I would suggest keeping "amusing myself" or trying to keep young at heart as equally valid goals of the same endeavor.

  58. Save your money... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    No better time than the present to start saving money for your divorce.

    -@|

  59. PRIDE is the most prized American possession. by kd4zqe · · Score: 1
    Not really... I WAS one of these kids. Well, I was when my Grandfather built HIS house.

    Because of what I learned watching and helping my grandfather with projects like this, I became an engineer. I enjoy building things, from models to houses. I plan to build my own once I manage to find some suitable land.

    Kids today are so distracted by over 9000 activities around them, that it's no small wonder why most are diagnosed with ADD. Picking a task and sticking with it until it's finished is a valuable skill itself. I loved building that house, and knowing while I lived in it, that I was responsible for making it a reality. I knew that behind walls in my house were framed-in doors, just in case we ever decided that we needed a door there later. Planning ahead was how my grandfather rolled. As a 5-year-old, I had intimate knowledge of the construction of that residence, and I LOVED IT!

    I won't deny my kids the same experience of knowing that you brought something into existence with hard work and willpower OTHER than an unwanted welfare child.

    --
    You're not paranoid if they really ARE out to get you...
  60. Tankless heater by denbesten · · Score: 1

    I too have a Tankless; in my case Rinnai for 6 years.

    My biggest negative is that my (large) family likes it too much, resulting in long showers and high water bills.

    This happens because the output temperature is thermostatically controlled (it blends in cold water) so my hot water is always 120 degrees, no more, no less. My shower stays exactly where I set it, the entire time. Since it never runs out of hot water, the "but my sister used all the hot water" fights are non-existant.

    Oh, another "odd" benefit is that I can turn its temperature down to 104 when I refill my hot tub, resulting in it being ready for use the moment it is full.

    If mine were to die today, I would put another one in its place. I can not imagine going back to a tank heater with a permanent pilot light and that would not let me take a shower after my kids get out.

    Keep in mind that they need to be installed on an outside wall because the exhaust pipe is expensive and they need a nearby electric outlet.

  61. Wrong way by Osgeld · · Score: 1

    All your useless toys with be obsolete in a year, and your wife's going to love having to thumb through an iPad and fire up an app to flush the toilet. Invest your money on things that actually improve your home's value and efficiency.

  62. Need? by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

    No you don't need a high tech house. American marketing companies have brainwashed you into wanting a high tech house.

    What you NEED to do as a newly married man with a new mortgage is to stay out of debt and start building up savings for the expenses you will face over your lifetime. And hopefully you will be locking in the current low interest rates with a 15 year fixed rate mortgage.

     

  63. Non-AC Wiring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Shortcut to a high tech house: Upgrade the Non-AC Wiring to Cat3, Cat5, and Coax; expand to every room; and create a hub-and-spoke network. (but not during the summer).

    Time Required: Three weekends.

    Parts Required: wire, connectors, wall plates, ethernet router and switch, phone splitter, AV switch, RJ-45 tool, coax tool, BORROWED fiber optic toolkit, cable snake, sheetrock saw, masking tape, screwdriver, bandaids...

    Cost: Depends upon chosen state-of-the-art wire and routers and switches: From $500 to well over $1,000.

    Benefits: Almost all future phone, internet, media, access, and wiring problems go away. Resale value enhancement: "Newly and completely wired for phone, ethernet, and entertainment."

    How's your houses's non-AC wiring?

    Most home telephone wire is crap. It's the cheapest the contractor could find.

    Most house telephone wiring designs are loop. The logic is that the loop won't be cut on two sides of a room. Bad logic.

    Few, if any, contractors consider that noise could enter at one part of the loop and contaminate the whole thing. Bad not considering.

    In most houses, there is neither ethernet nor fiber nor coax wiring.

    Fix it!

    The Wires and Wiring

    I re-wired the whole house in a hub-and-spoke design for Cat-3, Cat-5, and coax. I wasn't going to do hub-and-spoke until I snagged a phone wire that was carelessly run across the joists. I fell; it snapped.

    Basically, I piggy-backed the electric outlets. When there wasn't an outlet, I added. I cheated on one wall where the electrical outlets of two rooms were back-to-back: I ran one Cat-3/Cat-5/coax instead of two.

    Note: I pulled an extra 18" through the opening into the room, then stuffed it back inside – just in case.

    I ran the wires inside the wall. DO NOT run them outside in conduit.

    I attached cushioned hose clamps to the attic ribs and spine (roof beam), and, ran the wires through the clamps like a coverless wiring harness. http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/KMC-Clamp-2UTF7

    The Hub and the Plates

    The hub has a state-of-the-art wifi router and switch, a simple phone splitter, and an AV router/switch. Unfortunately, the hub is in the garage because that's where the phone and cable companies attached the phone and cable.

    I used five-gang mixed wall plates (2-AC, one Cat-3, one Cat-5, one coax). You might get your spouse involved: you could ask her to paint the wall plates. (Test place them, first, then clearly mark them with which room and wall and "UP". Trust me.)

    Time and Costs

    Most houses have seven wire-worthy rooms. So, it's about a three-weekend, one-person-but-much-easier-with-two-people project.

    Note: Fiber optic was prohibitively expensive when I did my project. I considered it, but after the pre-existing loop fiasco, I did components instead. It's much cheaper, now. Several companies sell a mixed wire that has phone, ethernet, and coax all-in-one. http://deepsurplus.com/Network-Structured-Wiring/Multimedia-Cable-Composite-Ethernet-Coaxial-Fiber-Optic-Cable

    Maintenance

    Remember the problem with the loop? In the hub and spoke, if a wire goes bad, you can cut it in the attic, tie the replacement wire to it, and pull it through to the room below, then attach the other end to the hub. Simple and almost easy.

    Summary

    Once the house is wired – correctly and state-of-the-art – almost all other additions are trivial.

    If I were to do it, again, I would consider running USB wiring, too. Everything else would be the same. Well, I wouldn't not cheat on that one back-to-back.

    1. Re:Non-AC Wiring by russotto · · Score: 1

      Basically, I piggy-backed the electric outlets.

      Great, now you'll have to rip it all out when you sell because of the code about separation between high and low voltage wiring.

  64. "it looks so 2008!" by peter303 · · Score: 1

    You need the flexibility to swap in new stuff easily, else it would look like a dinosaur.

  65. Some very cool hardware by Xenna · · Score: 1

    I've been playing with some interesting components recently. The kind that doesn't do things on its own, but you can use it to control things. There are three really interesting developments:

    1. The Raspberry Pi, an extremely cheap ($35), extremely small linux PC that can change personality and function by just swapping an SD card. Use it to put brains in your devices. Not available yet, but Real Soon Now... (http://www.raspberrypi.org)

    2. The OpenPicus FlyPort. A tiny card that contains a stand-alone webserver with wifi interface that can control and monitor relays, analog sensors etc etc. I have one controlling and monitor my garage door. Programmable in C. (http://www.openpicus.com)

    3. The TinkerForge Bricks. A USB connected set of stackable bricks that can control and monitor many things and create wireless and wired connections. Connect it to a Windows/Mac/Windows PC and control it with Python, Java or C. (http://www.tinkerforge.com)

    I'm a software guy and controlling hardware has mostly been beyond my grasp, but these open hardware products (I own 2 & 3) have basically given me a new playing field. Warmly recommended and worth doing some advertising for (no relation except as a satisfied customer).

  66. Re:rsync your entire house to a safe, remote locat by Tyrannosaur · · Score: 1

    Psh that is so several years ago. I just live in the cloud.

  67. be selective by sylvandb · · Score: 1

    Choose a few key items, placed carefully.

    Then learn trompe l'oeil.

    sdb

  68. Do the livability improvements first by waferbuster · · Score: 2

    I just bought a new house in Phoenix Arizona, and the biggest improvements I've made are:

    1. Insulating the metal garage door. I bought some 1 1/2 inch thick styrofoam board from Home Depot, cut it to fit the inside of the door, popped them in place, and sprayed expanding foam into the cracks. Now I'm not losing all the air conditioning to the outside. This means my electric bill is smaller, which means I have more money for other stuff!

    2. If you live in an area with poor quality water, install a water softener and Reverse Osmosis (RO) unit to purify the water. Here in Arizona, the water is very hard (lots of calcium), and has a nasty taste. The water softener means that there's not as much soap scum in the showers and less scale buildup on the water fixtures and tubs and showers. This means less time spent scrubbing (yay!). The RO unit takes the nasty tapwater, and filters it. The filtered water is stored in a 3 gallon tank, and is dispensed at the kitchen sink and the front door of the fridge. The refrigerator ice cubes no longer have that awful flavor, and instead are pure and tasteless.

    For me, these two improvements have been the biggest bang for the buck, because they directly affect other parts of my life. Your choices may be different, but think about what sorts of changes will make your life more pleasant for a long time to come. An iPad on the wall will look 'quaint' in 8 years, but a fresh glass of icewater will still taste sweet. I did the 120 inch screen and 1080p projector in the Man Cave, but it's not as big an improvement in my life as having clean water.

    --
    I'm an individual! Just like everyone else!
  69. Cheap and not so cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're going to need the following:

    A network (wifi or wired)
    A file server/streaming server
    Somewhere to store this stuff
    a decent tv with streaming support or a set top box like an apple tv, etc.
    a laptop or desktop computer

    I tried to go all wireless and it was a disaster. Two people can't do something at the same time of any importance. I have a business class cable package and could not stream netflix + have wife on WoW or game myself at the same time.

    I bought a very nice rack mount cisco switch on ebay for $30. It's only 10/100 but it's also got 48 ports, QoS, VLAN, etc. I also bought a cheap $130 rack on amazon (2 post) and put it in the basement. Got a file server, cable router, switch and some other goodies down there out of the way. Plus it really impresses some folks that I have a "server rack" in the basement. Newegg has cheap 1u-4u cases for sub $100. I put some old pcs in those and added drives. They make great servers. I also found a low cost 1u rack mount UPS for it on newegg.

    In the family room, i have a wii and an apple tv. Between the two, I can surf, stream netflix, watch iTunes content and listen to music. Wifi is used for this as well as our phones and tablets.

    Best advice is to avoid a lot of gadgets until you get some energy efficient items around the house. That means CFLS, replace appliances with energy efficient items as they die etc. This helps you pay for all those gadgets (and the electric bill) later. I've found my server setup costs me a lot of money a month, but because our gas bill is so low and our appliances are so efficient i break even.

  70. OK OP now you understand? by WOOFYGOOFY · · Score: 1

    never ask /. ers for advice.

    a couple hundred posts and they're all OT , at least as far as I could stand to read...

  71. Impress everyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What you want is the equivalent of a riced up honda. Sorry, I Hate those. Good luck wasting money to fill emotional holes left by parents that were never there for you.

  72. Don't buy anything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Read books, gather knowledge, and become an interesting conversationalist. Nobody likes smart-assed geeks with unnecessary gadgets, apart from other smart-assed geeks with unnecessary gadgets.

  73. drill a hole in the wall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    hi! i was recently in your situation, a couple years ago anyways, i bought a house with my wife, and wanted to do the same thing.
    the way my house is set up the room we use as the office was right behind the living room,. so i drilled a hole in the wall, connected the tv to my computer, connected some speakers that went through the headphone port in the computer. and then added a wireless keyboard and mouse in the living room (hidden away when not in use) but by just typiny win-p + the left arrow, (win7) it brings the PC up on the tv, then i have all of my pc in the living room, and with the speakers, using a remote app on a smart phone lets you play music in the living room without having to use the keyboard or even bring up the tv. i am rambling and not concise.
    basically
      really cheap
      be sure to hide the wires, wives hate wires
      seems high tech, super easy solution

  74. How about 30 years with the same tank heater? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or perhaps you've only ever experienced cheap tank style heaters. I've lived in a house with a tank style water heater from the time the heater was 5 years old through the time the heater passed 35 years of age. In all that time it never leaked.

    By the time it was 35 years old you could only get an 8 minute shower and had to wait 15 minutes before the next one, but that's an entirely different problem

  75. Lighting and Sheeva as a Media Server by slowLearner · · Score: 1

    The area I would go for is lighting, upgrade to LED lights they are more expensive but they last for ages and have a very small power bill. I have heard of lighting a whole house with 250 Watts, which is a ridiculously small amount of power, my laptop uses more power than that.
    Aside from that if you don't already have a media server at home then get a Sheeva plugin computer, or 2, and a hefty hard drive to act as you media server and anything else you can think of. It only costs a hundred bucks, make sure you read about the power supply issues. I eventually used an external power supply for mine. Again the main reason for this is that size of the power draw, I doubt my Sheeva uses more than 10 Watts at any time other than booting it serves files, does a bit of home web hosting for me and I use Mediatomb to stream my videos to the PS3 ( also works with XBox boxes I am led to believe).
    My only issue is that I cannot get files from my server to my iPad, which still burns me up about Apple and the iPad (GRRRRRRRRR!).

  76. MythTV and Projector by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd get a good MythTV setup going and add on from there. Add a projector($500?) for 9foot flat-screen movie experience. You can get a wicked receiver for $150 these days and about 8 surround speakers with a woofer for another $150 giving you THX quality if you carefully shop and set it up properly. Myth also is a full-blown gaming console, home automation controller, weather station, DVR, PVR, etc. Connect a wifi to it and now you can stream audio and video to the whole house.

  77. To dig up'transceiver of all trades'+further posts by D4C5CE · · Score: 1

    Follow the links, Luke: ;-)

    Need for a LIRC-like 'transceiver of all trades'
    And yes, (RF/IP-extended if need be) IR-controlled LED strip(e)s integrate nicely with this, especially since the most common controller has been supported by LIRC for a while: http://lirc.sourceforge.net/remotes/i24/

    There's also a thread with the building blocks (albeit documented in German) to link it up to a weather service for automated action based e.g. on their rain radar.

    Re:X10 makes cool stuff for automation
    BTW, contrary to the Future House movie linked near the top of the page, this LCARS thing is real (looks like many Dutch and German developers are at this, probably because more likely to buy just one house, and for a lifetime).

    The projector+blinds approach, much underestimated
    However, beware, "Neighborhood Watch" works both ways: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuiIobbZjHM (English subtitles, anyone?)

  78. Future-proof your house by Koos · · Score: 1

    On a budget: remember whatever you do now gadget-wise will be old in 5 years time. But other investments can help for any future plans: enough cabling (CAT6 or CAT7) to rooms so you can wire whatever in those rooms in the future. Not just network and computers, but also phones or temperature/motion sensors. And enough outlets.

  79. My Stuff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm European, so have no idea what all this chatter about "tankless hot water" is - we've had combi boilers over here for years. We also don't have a lot of aircon over here, possibly because we have brick walls instead of cardboard.

    But anyway... tech I have at home you might want to consider:
    - Cat 5e throughout (although if I was doing it again, I might go Cat 6)
    - Univeral remote control on the main TV/DVD/XBMC combo
    - Wireless Laundrino
    - Squeezeboxes + controller (which the wife likes quite a bit)
    - Rainwater filled toilet (actually, that's not finished yet - I'm plucking up the courage to do the mains backup plumbing)
    - Lots and lots of insulation on everything (most hot pipes over most of their length, piles of insulation in the loft, draught exclusions, etc etc.)

    It's not a "tech" house in the traditional sense, but it's got lots of stuff that does something useful and isn't going to go out of date next year. It also wins a few "green" points (which save us measurable amounts of money), which impresses the neighbours/friends far more than the tech-they-can't-understand-or-use ever would.

  80. Get an offset and CAT5 by Hyperhaplo · · Score: 1

    Get a mortgage with an offset account. So long as your mortgage rate is higher than the current interest rate (eg, always for Aus) then put all your spare cash into the offset account.

    Get a credit card. Pay it off monthly (NEVER let it go over) from the offset account.

    It's like putting money into your mortgage.. but being able to access the cash at any time when you need it.

    Stop around for your mortgage + offset account.. lots of places want to charge $50 for the privilege. Out of interest, mine came with the mortgage deal.

    Special note: It's easy to get your first mortgage. Don't feel locked in. Wait out the first year or two, then charge mortgage as needed or as the market changes.

    Buy tech for what you need today. Nothing lasts forever. Tech moves on. CAT5 will serve for a while yet. Wire the places in the house which make sense. Cable with redundancy if you can. Always add 50cm + at each end of the cable. Read up on Cisco / CCNA networking - a good read of the exam and course info is very useful for background information.

    CAT5 is less than $1 a meter! Cheap!

    --
    You have a sick, twisted mind. Please subscribe me to your newsletter.
  81. That's not the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "but I need a little bit extra: a high tech house. The problem: money"

    The problem is actually stupidity! Recently married? You should be boning every chance you get! Of course you got married so now the 50/50 rule is in effect and every carnal activity now has a price.

  82. Use avsforum.com for the home theater stuff by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 1

    It's an earnest discussion forum of owners and experts where noobs can post questions about differ components and recommendations. I built my home theater off of advice from there about 5 years ago and ended up with a nice setup.

    --
    I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
  83. think about everything, ask questions by DriveDog · · Score: 1

    If the house is not already built and you're thinking about putting wires everywhere, think again. Cat5 (or 6) is cheap enough to go ahead and run and will probably serve for quite a few years, but anything you install will become obsolete quicker than you think. I tried that, and wish I'd just run cheap conduit from the attic or crawlspace to every wall so I could easily pull whatever cabling I wanted later, and replace it easily even later. A pair of wires for an alarm system to each window/door makes some sense, as does specialty low-voltage wiring (I would run 12V to each street-facing window for the Christmas-candle-in-the-window). Your house's design will matter a lot. For example, I have open truss-style joists beteen floors that make pulling cable reasonable. I have a crawlspace, but it doesn't help me because it's so tight and working around insulation is a PITA. I have an attic, but the center-only subfloor and loose insulation makes working above the non-floored parts a bit hazardous. Again, if new, insist on an electric panel with surplus capacity and especially space for (not just 2 or 3) more breakers. Think about where you're going to run cabling underground to outbuildings, lights, mailbox sensors, cameras, driveway sensors, etc. Programmable thermostats are cheap and very nice to have. Networked thermostats are widely available, but don't add any value for some of us. Someone else mentioned the water heater location. DO try to minimize the distance between a tank or tankless heater and the shower you expect to use the most. Thermostatically and clock controlled hot water circulators work pretty well, but they use additional energy by moving hot water through the pipes where it cools faster. Speaking of water, I only know of two types of good plumbing: copper (not "see-through") and PEX. Avoid the rest if possible, particularly if replacing it will involve tearing into walls/floors/ceilings. I recommend, as did others, concentrating on quality materials and workmanship. Close gaps where bats can enter (3/8"), Avoid situations where crawlspaces become damp or worse, shifting foundations that crack walls, siding and trim that ages poorly or needs constant maintenance (paint), designs where termites find easy entry or finding and preventing/eliminating them is difficult, untreated wood exposed to wet conditions (door frames, garage door framing, window frames... Check into keypad door locks (Schlage, etc). Whether network-connected or not, they're nice to have for a number of reasons. You can program entry combinations temporarily for friends while you're out of town or allow easy access to visitors arriving before you get home from work. Speaking of security... you want at least deadbolts and good window locks all around. Think of the house as not a "build it and you're done" but a lifelong project. You'll want a place to work (garage space aside from cars, workshop, shed, etc). You'll want yard space for any outbuildings or other projects you might later build. You'll want a home owners' association and rules that you can work with. Some are so restrictive and obnoxious that you can't do anything, but lax or nonexistent might mean that your independent trucker neighbor's semi cab is parked in the front yard just a few feet from your house. Having a large backyard might be frustrating if you can't get vehicles to it. Look for access paths and clearances. Find out how tall of a privacy fence are you allowed to build and how far forward it can come (even with the front of the house?). Will you be allowed to install or replace worn out shingles with a reflective variety to cut heat gain? other thoughts... is the site suitable for solar, wind, or microhydro power? If new construction, seriously consider a ground-source heat pump. Operating costs are much lower, useful life is probably longer (and only some parts then need be replaced), there need be no visible external apparatus, and noise from the outdoor unit is eliminated. It's much cheaper to install at most sites during construction than later and t

  84. TV by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    HDHomeRun.

  85. LinuxMCE by Whatever+Fits · · Score: 1

    Check out www.linuxmce.org for how to do this exact thing. I use Z-Wave lighting controllers (not cheap but not too expensive either) combined with computers hooked up to my TVs and an Android app on my tablet allow me to control my home theater, lights, stream movies, music, and everything else that one might possibly think of wanting. One nice thing is that you can put together all these pieces one at a time so it isn't a $50k hit up front to automate everything. If you invest a few hundred in lighting controls then you can do all your lights in all your main areas. Add in some motion detectors and have fully automatic lights. Add a cheap computer for a media station and on and on...

    --
    My name fits again.
  86. Grow up. by AdamWill · · Score: 1

    You're doing it wrong.

    Your home is a place for you to live, eat, sleep and relax in. You want to be able to keep doing all those things, especially #2 and #4, you are going to want to live within your budget.

    An excellent way to avoid doing that is to dream up ridiculous goals that make no damn sense and then waste your money on them.

    Technology is not and never should be confused for an end in yourself. It exists to help you reach other goals more effectively and efficiently. You don't start out by thinking 'how can I throw some miscellaneous kind of Cool Technology into this house thing I just bought'. You start out by thinking 'what do I need to do to keep myself and my family sheltered, fed, and healthy?' Then you do that, and once you've covered it, if you have any money left, ask yourself how you can most efficiently keep yourself and your family relaxed and entertained, and if the answer to that involves technology, well, fine, some kind of technology it is. Perhaps something incredible like a radio or a television. If you don't have the money to afford whatever shiny whizz-bang thing caught your eye, don't fucking buy it, and definitely don't buy some kind of pointless cheap imitation of it. Just leave it the hell alone already.

  87. High tech shortcuts by ktcifone · · Score: 1

    My house burned down in 2009. Lost all computers.even my employers laptop. All data gone. been online since 95. digital camera since 98, mp3 conversions since 97. (Previously had 1 linux home server serving 3 TB data. WinXP workstation dual 24 inch monitors, linux desktops and xp laptop.) Already drank the apple kool aid, with iphones, so after starting over got imac to replace workstation and server, laptop for other systems. Built a home bar in new house and This is now the office. connected mac mini with 4 TB data to 32 inch tv with elgato HD connected to the mini, I can stream tv to any ios via wifi or 3/4G. Stream video library to android or ios devices via wifi or 3/4G. 2 networks private and guest networks so all guests can plug in when they are here. very little wires and low maintenance. I got a speaker bar for the tv with a wireless subwoofer in the family room. It sounds great. low maintenance. When you get a new house there is so much to do. Keep it low maintenance.

  88. Time of Use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The electricity around here becomes twice as expensive weekdays starting at 07:00. If I went tankless, I could showere before 7 and always use cheap electricity. With tank, the whole tank reheats every day, mostly after 7, using the most expensive electricity of the day.