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TSA Shuts Down Airport, Detains 11 After "Science Project" Found
OverTheGeicoE writes "A group of students and a professor were detained by TSA at Dallas' Love Field. Several of them were led away in handcuffs. What did they do wrong? One of them left a robotic science experiment behind on an aircraft, which panicked a boarding flight crew. The experiment 'looked like a cell phone attached to a remote control car with some exposed wires protruding.' Of course, the false alarm inconvenienced more than the traveling academics. The airport was temporarily shut down and multiple gates were evacuated, causing flight delays and diversions."
Why the "Scare Quotes" in the title? Is someone implying that it was actually a bomb, and not a robot? TFA does not.
There's no such thing as too much fear.
The terrorists aren't trying to get on our airplanes. The terrorists are blowing up Planned Parenthood clinics.
How many things actually happened in the entire history of commercial flights before the TSA existed? And why do they still exist in light of that? Sheesh.
Like, until you're about 35 years old.
They were right - the revolution did not get televised. It was posted on YouTube instead. All in 120 characters. SLOOSH!
Thanks, SCOTUS.
Zero.
Number of people nude Xrayed or sexually groped (on their breasts or crotch) or strip-searched or locked in glass jails for carrying breast milk or ..... (this list could go on several pages).
Millions.
I hope none of those machines were malfunctioning and ejected lethal doses. They are never checked. TIME TO END THE TSA. And the Fed (give the power back to the State central banks).
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
They grounded us with science...
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.
What kind of moron takes something that "look[s] like a cell phone attached to a remote control car with some exposed wires protruding" onto an airplane?
Hire a Linux system administrator, systems engineer,
I used to carry stuff like this on airplanes, and through international customs. My company made and sold products that were hacked together PCBs slapped in a box with a motorcycle battery - looked awesome on X-ray.
What more can I say. Dallas, TSA, Southwest---we aren't talking about the brain trust here.
I am surprised someone just didn't scream NERDS!
If it got on the plane, someone checked it somewhere and gave it a thumbs-up. That makes it more likely to be a toy, just like it looked.
I'm as against the TSA as anyone.
But come on. Considering what was found, why should any authority there NOT freak out? The flight crew did.
It's really annoying it had such a large impact but in this case it was I think fully warranted. Even though I think they should have been allowed to enter the plane with the whole kit unscanned, once they left it behind all bets are off.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
What kind of moron takes something that "look[s] like a cell phone attached to a remote control car with some exposed wires protruding" onto an airplane?
What kind of moron LETS SOMEONE take something that look[s] like a cell phone attached to a remote control car with some exposed wires protruding" onto an airplane? I mean, if snow globes are verboten, how in the world could that contraption possibly get on board in the first place?
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
The device obviously got through security in Dallas thus it must not have been a threat. It isn't like that was something that was easily concealed or concealed in a bag if the crew found it. The TSA have stopped exactly zero terrorists while harassing and groping millions innocent people and have multiple lawsuits filed against them costing taxpayers more money then their already ridiculous budget. TSA is a waste of taxpayers money, plain and simple.
Just because you are wrong and I called you out on it doesn't mean I am a Troll.
While not the best decision, I think the point is that he shouldn't have to worry. If it was on the plane, it made it past the TSA, and assuming they did a good job at their theatre, was safe. This whole fiasco is an exercise in how useless and overbearing the security is in airports these days.
Meanwhile, somewhere deep in the Arabian sea .... Osama Bin Laden is laughing his ass off. His face is shot so that is the only thing he got left to laugh with.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
I've flown in the US with Robots Anywhere systems in my carry-ons before (http://www.robots-everywhere.com) and had no real hassle. I've had to explain them to security guards before, but I haven't had them do anything to me except the usual harassment and mistreatment of property.
Look at the bright side. They probably got their robot back. If it wasn't for the TSA, they'd never have seen it again!
Under no circumstances should anything the TSA responds to ever actually appear threatening to a reasonable person. This flies in the face of everything I know about that organization. Where were the real police who should've been dealing with this?
Obviously someone who thinks that the Goons at the TSA have an IQ somewhere north of 80.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Okay. These people happened to be flying with something that looks very suspicious. A cellphone wired up to some other electronic device. Okay. Occasionally people do fly with suspicious looking items that are completely innocent. Then these same people "forget" it and leave it on an airplane? When's the last time you forgot a piece of carry-on luggage on a plane? I'm sure it happens occasionally, but when people are flying they are usually careful about such things. Now put the two together. What are the chances that a group of people bring a very suspicious looking electronic device onto a plane and then they all simultaneously forget it there? Isn't it possibly a bit more likely that they were playing some sort of a prank, or trying to test security at the airport and it backfired? Just a thought.
If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
Isn't the point here that it got on the airplane? That makes the TSA look like they are CYA by making a little show of handcuffing kids. Shouldn't this be a wake up call that the TSA isn't effective? One of dozens this week perhaps? nope.
Of course kids can be trained as terrorists, so maybe they should be shot immediately and the news of such blacked out - so I don't get distracted from buying things and supporting the economy. I dont' want the terrorists to win after all.
"Southwest Airlines cancels more than 40 flights at Dallas Love Field in Texas in the aftermath of #tornadoes. " http://on.cnn.com/Hc37c4 Very next day. I think it's clear who the real terrorists are. Tornadoes.
That is what the flight attendant said it looked like. That does not mean that it looked like that in the slightest. /. once had an article where the police were called on the halo devs for carrying a AF-47 around in public, the AF-47 was in fact a 10 foot long halo sniper rifle replica that does not even look real (http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2011/11/medium_3ce16ecb6851fdac6329346672baea73.jpg).
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
That kind of stuff never makes it through security.
They were released with no charges after the situation was cleared up, right? Also, were the handcuffs really necessary?
Better question - if they let it on the plane, then why didn't TSA ask the flight crew what the thing was instead of treating it like a bomb? Seems somebody should have already known it was on the plane during the flight.
Handcuffs, really? Couldn't this have been solved in a matter of minutes if the TSA just asked a few questions of the students and teacher?
The same with the shooting in Florida. If both guys had just talked/asked questions that teenager would still be alive.
you don't talk about bombs much less take some thing that looks like one on to a plane in the post 9/11 world.
Of all the things for them to freak out about, a robotic looking thing attached to a cell phone on an airplane might be something genuine. I know if I saw it, without any context of where it came from, I would not feel very comfortable around it. I hate the TSA, and think that the security theater is ridiculous, but this one I think I'll let slide...
today is spelling optional day.
Editors, PLEASE learn your TLAs. The TSA didn't / doesn't detain anyone. The TSA run x-ray machines, search baggage and grope grannies. They have no power of arrest or detention. For that they call law enforcement, such as the police or air marshals. The TSA cannot and do not lead people away in handcuffs.
plane get reloaded with fuel at the gate and move to the next city and if you have a big boom you may also hit the airport fuel tanks / take out a big chunk of the gate area.
Let me get this straight:
Flight crew makes a mistake
Students get hauled off.
On top of that, shouldn't the TSA have caught this "cell phone like thing" with it's magical terrorist preventing scanners?
If it looked questionable, why didn't they see it in the screenings, and why didn't the let the flight crew know about the strange object?
What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
Just to be the devil's advocate, imagine the following scenario.
Professor reaches TSA, shows the package, passes it through X-ray / opens it to show there is no chemical / explosive, and answers questions to the fully satisfaction of TSA (yes I am teacher these are the children I teach...).
Sometime later, someone else (who of course has not been told that there was such teacher with such object in the previous flight) finds the surprise. Even if the artifact was competently investigated by the TSA, the people who found it probably had no way to verify that ---> panic button.
To me, this article is bussiness as usual, and per se (the devil lies in details) it does not show up any incompetence / abuse
Why can't
So the lesson is, if you want to bomb an airplane, enclose your bomb in a smooth, brushed aluminum and/or plastic case?
Palm trees and 8
they will get it back as a court room evidence
A/C - if they didn't exist, the flight attendants would just file the bomb err robot in with missing stuff for later claiming. Think of the human productivity cost of this entire stupid affair.
If it was a bomb, it would have been blown up midair most likely. So TSA didn't solve anything here, they just acted like assholes and made a bunch of hubbub.
Great job!
To be fair, a cell phone /left behind/ and /attached/ to another item is pretty damn suspicious. A flight attendant with any sense will clear the area PDQ and alert Security.
Security has to take a bomb threat as real, otherwise what's the fucking point of Security? So hell yeah, lockdown on the area (airplanes are full of kerosene, remember?) -- clear all civilians and let the Emergency Response people have plenty of room.
And the people thought to have left it behind? Hell yes, handcuffs. It's people plural. Even if it's just one people, if it's an actual nutbar they may make a grab for a Security Guard's weapon. Handcuffs until it's absolutely sure that it's safe to remove them.
This was not an unreasonable response. Now the TSA in general, please don't get me started. That's an utter cockup. But this isn't.
That would clearly violate the TSAs guidelines on logic and sanity.
What kind of moron takes something that "look[s] like a cell phone attached to a remote control car with some exposed wires protruding" onto an airplane?
Uh, someone that does not want the device utterly destroyed?
Checked luggage gets the shit beat out of it. Also, very often, security personnel will go through your luggage, and break even more stuff, through plain negligence, or just plain re-packing it poorly.
Here's an interesting info-graphic I saw for the first time today. Pretty much falls in line with the rest of the sentiment here.
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
Better question - if they let it on the plane, then why didn't TSA ask the flight crew what the thing was instead of treating it like a bomb?
Because the flight crew had no idea what it was. They're the ones who reported it. This was the incoming flight crew that had just walked onto the plane. And the outgoing flight crew certainly doesn't know what every passenger is carrying, so even if you could find them, they couldn't help.
Well, if the flight crew is freaking out, then either the TSA let it through or gave it the OK because it's ON THE PLANE.
I'm sorry, but that's an incredibly stupid and naive thought.
The flight crew did not scan the passengers. Also by that time there have been a number of ground crew interacting with the plane. It could have even been assembled in mid-air. The crew has no idea where this thing might have come from.
There's not way you can expect a flight crew and even law enforcement to not reasonable consider some very roughly assembled electronics as possibly dangerous when found with no owner.
As I said I'd even be for the guys waltzing onto the plane with no security carrying the thing. That is fine by me, but equally fine is treating something like that as a threat when found totally unattended.
I mean, lets turn your argument around. You say it's OK because obviously the TSA is awesome and let it on the plane to start with, so obviously t came with a passenger. Great then, since now we "know" it was brought on by someone who went through TSA - WHY DID THEY LEAVE IT?
I mean, why on earth would someone who carefully constructed such a thing leave it behind? That makes no sense either, in fact even less sense to me. I would be pretty concerned if I saw that because anyone who had the skills to build such a thing obviously would care about it very much and have the intelligence not to forget they had it. I would be more prone to think something like that left behind was nefarious in purpose exactly because it had been left and forgotten.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
So if I put coloured epoxy over the wires so they cannot be seen ...
The point is that the people claiming that this looks like "a handmade explosive device" do not know what "a handmade explosive device" looks like.
It just looks UNUSUAL so they panicked.
How ridiculous the TSA and security theater are. Even the flight crew doesn't trust them to weed out/screen dangerous objects. If the TSA is (or considered to be) effective, then why is the first response to anything weird on an airplane "OMG A BOMB?"
It was 2002, and I was taking a course in digital electronics. One of the well-known projects for this course was to build a digital clock from regular 74xx and 74xxx IC's. We were to complete the projects on our own breadboards, and we could, if we wanted to keep the result, buy our own electronic components as well. I bought my own electronics, and as a result, could work on it when I was not necessarily in the lab. I was in a fairly reclusive hallway in the school around lunctime, testing out a circuit I had designed which would get incorporated into my final project, and I was using some LED's for feedback, which flickered quickly as my circuit ran. I was concentrating on what I was doing, and was surprised when someone from campus security came up to me and grabbed me by the shoulder. I spent the next 15 minutes in the office of campus security explaining what I was doing, and as it happened, one of the people from campus security knew the professor and could vouch for the story I was giving. They had called my professor for the course anyways, who came to security, chuckled at the whole incident, because he recognized me immediately, and said that he knew me and that I was okay.
Later that afternoon, during the class lecture, the prof relayed the anecdote to everybody with much amusement, not mentioning exactly who it was who, evidently, got him called down to the security office because they thought one of his students was building a bomb. He advised us all that we should be building our projects in the lab only, and not in the hallways of the school.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
What kind of moron takes something that "look[s] like a cell phone attached to a remote control car with some exposed wires protruding" onto an airplane?
The contents of any business person's carry-on bag looks like that on an X-ray scanner. Phone, MP3 layer, USB cables, laptop and power brick, bent paper clip to reset dodgy devices, RSA security key for remote VPN access, prototype PCB for the embedded device my company is working on, etc. By the time that tangle of wires gets to the airport, it WILL look like a horrid science experiment that is a pound of C4 away from blowing up. Yet such tangles regularly pass through security with a brief 2 second eyeball from a bored TSA grunt. The only difference here is that the tangle was left behind on the plane.
http://tech.mit.edu/V127/N40/simpson.html
It used to be that police would investigate intelligently, and lay charges appropriately. Now, it appears that everything must reach a judge before common sense is applied. We are living in the days where losing a cell phone will cause a plane to be grounded. We need to get people to use their brains again, and not make major incidents out of false alarms.
If it was left on the plane, how did they get it through security in the first place? Did TSA just take their word that it was a science experiment or did security not catch it? Neither one makes me feel any more comfortable with the TSA...not that I'm comfortable with them to begin with.
And how did this device-that-looks-like-a-bomb get onto the airplane in the first place?
Where in the Constitution is the TSA mentioned?
Is it in the section labeled "unreasonable search and seizure"?
Or is it the section about "warrantless searches of citizens"?
I'm not sure which section it is.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Panic and submit to authority like a good little boy.
Look idiot, I'm throne who said they could walk on the plane with it.
If you are seriously ignoring some odd electronics that someone should have actually cared about and taken with them, you are not long for the gene pool.
It's not unreasonable to be concerned when something might actually be a problem. It's in no way "submitting to authority" to say that if you leave something technologically sophisticated behind on a plane people might freak out a bit. That is simply a reasonable response to an unusually situation in an area where historically people with bad intentions have really targeted innocent people,
That's way more of a response than I normally give completely braindead AC trolls like yourself, so I'll not be responding to whatever ideating response you might concoct.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It has never been so hard to be a white christian male. Maybe we should get our own political party. Oops, I mean a new political party.
Who'd of thunk it could only happen post-cold war?
I once took an excursion to Reddit, and later HN. Unlimited up/down voting sucks when dealing with a hive-mind.
If you read the article it says the "device" was left near the cockpit which most likely meant that as they walked out they left it behind by accident in an area that was very obvious. So if a terrorist left a "device" there they would know it would be found before boarding and fueling. If you managed to get a bomb that far why not just blow it up mid flight? It's not like they ran out of suicide bombers.
I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
The contents of any business person's carry-on bag looks like that on an X-ray scanner. Phone, MP3 layer, USB cables, laptop and power brick, bent paper clip to reset dodgy devices, RSA security key for remote VPN access, prototype PCB for the embedded device my company is working on, etc. By the time that tangle of wires gets to the airport, it WILL look like a horrid science experiment that is a pound of C4 away from blowing up.
I had a lot of fun like that with TSA about four years ago.
I am an amateur musician, and I was travelling to a musician's conference halfway across the country...with my electric guitar, assorted effects pedals, a drum machine, a sequencer, a portable digital mixing board/digital recorder, enough cables and wall warts to connect everything together, and my laptop. I got to the security line, and TSA is droning on with their "please remove all laptops from your bags" spiel, so I removed the laptop but left everything else packed. They pretty much freaked out when they saw the collection of wires and electronic gadgets in the x-ray machine, but after I explained what I was carrying and placed each electronic gadget into one of their security-approved plastic bins, they calmed back down. I didn't leave my tangle on the airplane, though.
MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
What kind of moron takes something that "look[s] like a cell phone attached to a remote control car with some exposed wires protruding" onto an airplane?
A student with a science project that they do not want to check would. Why not? It's not a nefarious device. It sounds to me like the problem is with the authorities and their system, not with the student.
-Turkey
It's probably time to come up with a new Flying Fickle Finger of Fate Award or some such for unintentionally causing mass panic and hysteria in "trained professionals" with common household objects. Clearly the 2007 winner would be Turner Broadcasting for the Aqua Teen Hunger Force Lite Brite fiasco in Boston. I emphasize "unintentional," because what was seen as a harmless joke when I was a kid can certainly get you 10 to 30 now. We also made our own Thermite and played with it too. That'll probably get you life.
Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
A smartphone-powered robot with wires protuding? Somebody got scared over that? I mean, has there ever been a bomb that didn't have fucking wires exposed? I hope they remembered to cut the red wire first when defusing this toy. Or was it the white wire? Well, we may as well ban all electronics since they all have wires inside of them. This has nothing to do with terrorism and everything to do with us becoming a terror-stricken and easily frightened society. Our fears and risk-aversion are all out of proportion to the actual statistical risk of harm from bombs and terrorism.
I assume the airport will be compensating these innocent passangers for mental anguish caused by the nuclear freakout and arrests.
The chances of a real threat by a competent advasary looking like a hollywood prop are sufficiently remote that if you think any of this was an appropriate response then it must also be appropriate for airports to freak out and close the entire airport whenever *ANY* item is left behind as it could just as easily be a threat.
to show how useless TSA is.
So you'd never investigate anomalous network activity on your network because clearly your perimeter defenses would keep the hackers out?
C'mon now; I loathe the TSA as much as anybody else, but if you don't get the concept of defense in depth you're probably not qualified to throw stones...
Number of people nude Xrayed or sexually groped (on their breasts or crotch) or strip-searched or locked in glass jails for carrying breast milk or ..... (this list could go on several pages).
I must admit that I'm thinking about the scene in Airplane where the security guys frisk the old lady (or was it a nun?) while the shifty looking guy with the comic-book bomb walks straight through. How could the makers of a 1980 comedy film be so prophetic?
Because, yes, in this case the real question is how the hell "a cell phone linked to a remote control car with wires protruding" got as far as the plane without the owner (or their responsible adult) being sent packing with the polite suggestion that they should try opening a newspaper at least once every decade and take some sort of responsibility for what sort of bizzarre objects they tried to carry on a plane?
Anyway, aren't all science projects supposed to be potato batteries, by law?
In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
A bomb could actually be put together that way. So they were right to evacuate until it was determined to be safe. And you can't touch it until the evacuation is done for the risk that if it is a bomb, however unlikely, touching it could trigger it.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Or during the next flight when whoever left it is no longer on board, or during takeoff to shut down the airport, or during refueling for massive fireball. Or whenever, because people who leave bombs on airplanes aren't necessarily predictable. Don't make assumptions in security.
Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
You will go through a metal detector. You will empty your pockets, take off your shoes and belt. You will have to show an official photo ID.
You may be wanded down, if the metal detector keeps beeping. If the wanding shows an area that is setting off the wand, the agent will search that area with their hand (groping). They are not going to do a full search unless you refuse all electronic means. If you have a pacemaker, you may choose groping over metal detectors.
The important thing is to pay attention to the rules about liquids and containers sizes. Put everything you can through the luggage x-ray. Don't forget a metal nail file in your pocket.
If your name is on a watch list, you may be talked to on the side. I have had this happen. My name is the same as a former IRA member who later became a Republican politician in the ROI and was even involved in the Peace talks with US Senator Mitchell. I'm guessing this is the connection. A more senior TSA agent at the security check-in talked to me for about 30 seconds, re-viewed my ID, and allowed me to pass. I would be about 30 years too young to be the other me. I guess if you were African American and your name was 'Bobby Rush', you might expect the same treatment, so don't wear a 'Black Panther' super hero t-shirt.
Also my name is the same as 2 people who were killed in the twin towers on September 11th. Yes, 2 people with the same name were killed. Lists of names are not always accurate ways to identify terrorists and tell them apart from terrorist victims.
TSA personnel seem a lot like postal workers. They are just doing a job. They follow their training manuals and don't have to think outside their protocols. Go with the flow and you won't even be noticed by them.
We elected the people who made all these rules, don't blame the TSA. The fault, ultimately, belongs to those of us who vote. If you don't like the way it works, start voting for someone else.
If it were a real bomb, it may have been programmed to blow up on the NEXT flight, after Anonymous Coward gets OFF the flight at this stop.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Another reason for the pink "not a bomb!!!!" sticker that only the TSA has access to. I SO look forward to the days when I have to wear one on my forehead to fly.
Or, the departing flight crew could be responsible for sweeping the plane prior to the new crew coming on board and communicating any oddities, like the lifeguards do at my kids' swimming pool. Oh, right, flying, in general, has become re-fuckin-tarded.
Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation causes your worst fears to come true.
What kind of moronic society gets all out of joint about that sort of thing. What is your recommendation, is just not flying enough or should he fully join the idiocracy and use only government approved consumer goods?
Then everybody on slashdot will get detained, probed and then TSA will request additional funding based on the spikes in detaining/probing/confiscations.
You seem to be arguing that the limit of this police function as x -> the readership of slashdot is near infinity, but I don't think that's anywhere near the case, based on these axioms: a) population of U.S. is less than infinity and b) the percentage of U.S. population which can be converted into police and guard to succesfully prosecute and imprison the rest before riots and revolution breaks out, is FAR less than 100%.
How do you feel about underwear and shoes, then? After all, persons have tried to detonate them in mid-air.
How many times do we need to repeat "Security Circus"?
Given all the TSA has got away with so far, it is clear they can do whatever the fuck they like and face no consequences at all.
"When in doubt, use brute force." Ken Thompson
There is a failure of communication between TSA sites. Once the projects and people have been vetted there should have been an e-mail/update advising the landing/connecting airfields that such object is aboard and has been looked at. This would not have stopped the new crew from freaking out but it possibly would have saved an extended arrest.
Beware of those who profit off the docile and persecute the unbelievers.
I beg to differ. The students had to have gone by the TSA to get that thing on the airplane. The TSA after the plane landed shutdown the airport to scan it ONLY after the flight crew had a problem. If they TSA had that much of a problem with it at the END of a flight why was it not stopped before the flight or at least put in with checked baggage? Your incompetence is a non standard screen at the start of the flight. Not the competent people at the end of the flight.
plane get reloaded with fuel at the gate and move to the next city and if you have a big boom you may also hit the airport fuel tanks / take out a big chunk of the gate area.
I won't bother restating the article details other than to say it was an RC car, left near the cockpit which is too far away from the fuel tanks to rupture them. If it had been a bomb.
Even if it did, the fuel won't explode (the vapors can, but not without the right air/fuel ratio) and even the ignition point of the jet fuel is higher than you would think (140 degrees F according to wikipedia). So even a fire is unlikely unless it was incendiary.
The main point being that an RC car is too small to blow up an airplane, even a little Cessna.
As a counterpoint, when the mythbusters blew up the cement truck they used 850lbs of high-explosive, which detonates (explodes faster than the speed of sound) and generally provides more force for doing work like pushing a cement mixer wall away from another cement mixer wall.
Expansion room is important. Holding an M80 tightly in your hand might blow your hand off, while holding it in your open palm might just burn your skin slightly (I still advise you not to try this)
The same applies in larger scales. If the RC car was a bomb, the explosion of say 5 pounds of material would go mostly up in the air and around all the sides, taking the paths of least resistance. It would probably leave a permanent mark on the ugly airplane carpet, which would need to be replaced.. along with a couple of seats.
The reason small bombs are effectively dangerous is shrapnel. Grenades pack a small amount of explosives inside a metal shell which breaks apart and speeds along into peoples bodies. Grenades are not effective against tanks, vehicles, or airplanes, despite video games saying otherwise.
Why am I saying all this? I want you to understand that even a little bit of panic while remaining uninformed does you and the public a disservice. A stampede to get away from a potential bomb scare would have potentially caused much more harm than anything reasonable you could have done to the plane while it's on the ground.
Nah, you're getting "poor impulse control"
Further proof that the TSA is a sick joke.
They LEFT it on the plane, meaning the got it one the plane, and apparently flew in the plane with it.
Being able to find "bombs" left behind on planes after the flight is not exactly good security, is it?
This space available.
meh, the risk of letting it sit there is far to high. They may be unpredictable, but they're not totally off the wall bonkers. Well - that's subjective I suppose.
FTFY. Why do you think the number of criminal offenses keeps increasing? Ayn Rand hit the ball out of the park:
"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."
While I don't know if she was aware of it, her quote is pretty much a paraphrase from something the ancient Chinese Legalist philosopher Han Feizi said.
Except that Han Feizi meant it seriously as a method of ruling that should be implemented (and it was).
You can't really tell if something's a bomb. If it looks suspicious, the only 'safe' thing to do is to assume it is something evil.
In the 1800s it would be an evil product of witchcraft (satanic device), in the 20th century it would be a communist spying device, and in the 21st century... it must be a bomb.
In any case, whoever created such implement must certainly be arrested.
We must be ever vigilant in the hunt for ( Witches | Communists | Terrorists), otherwise, there is a great danger that lives will be lost.
If we don't know exactly what a device (or a person is), the only safe assumption is to assume the absolute worst
They won. You lost.
I don't have a sig.
This is being successfully terrorized.
They were right - the revolution did not get televised. It was posted on YouTube instead. All in 120 characters. SLOOSH!
Ironically, the alternative to bringing the item on board is to pack a gun into your checked luggage. That makes sure it is treated with kid-gloves and isn't opened. Seriously. (You tell the airline you have the gun in your luggage and follow the necessary firearm safety laws/ordinances and airline requirements)
And their "overreaction" was a little bit late. They let this device get onto plane and then "panicked" when someone left it.
My feeling is that those TSA pigs wouldn't be happier. They found justification for their crap existence and secured some more of future funding for their parasitic operations.
Regarding all this "terrorist" stuff american crap-media is pushing down our throats every day: stop bombing those folks in Middle East and stop covering Israel's criminal actions and you'll neutralize way more terrorist threat than with all these expensive TSA thugs and equipment.
Never forget the lessons of Boston and Aqua Teen Hunger Force. "It had a very sinister appearance. It had a battery behind it, and wires." If it's not an American flag, it most be a bomb.
Repeat after me: Because it was NOT a fucking bomb or "terrorist" device. It was a harmless science experiment.
Now, if you want to bury your head in the sand every time you see something you don't understand, go right ahead. I prefer to "analyze", "think" and "understand". If it's not dangerous to the crew, passengers or aircraft, there is absolutely NO reason to disallow something like this on-board. If it looked anything like what was described, I'm sure it was thoroughly screened at the security checkpoint *before they got on the plane*! It was found safe, not a danger and allowed on-board.
This is pure, unfounded panic and TSA over-reaction, as usual.
That's not even hyperbole, just a basic opinion on when "personhood" begins that differs from the majority opinion. If you share that opinion, it would be hard not to be appalled by the rampant infanticide.
It's sad that geeks are, on the whole, so quick to just dismiss someone with differing values. When someone comes to a very diferent conclusion, we shouldn't be so quick to assume they're stupid, instead ask whther they're starting from different assumptions (certainly 90% of design arguments at work could be avoided by this practice).
*Sigh*
Ok, I'll bite. What "different assumptions" lead to the conclusion that abortion isn't rampant infanticide?
The only two I can find are:
"I want sex without consequences."
"This piece of tissue isn't cute yet, so I don't need to formally recognize it as human."
The former is part of our zeitgiest. That doesn't make it sound reasoning*, but it is conceivably worth addressing. The latter is just an ugly excuse driven by the former. We really could just as easily and capriciously set the age to six months, or potty training.
For the record, the general public is stupid, and the most vocal proponents of abortion are after political power or money. That's not to say that everyone who believes in abortion is stupid, but it's really hard to wrap my mind around. I have not come across a logically sound rationale in favor of it. (at least one that isn't easily applied to genocide or some types of serial murder)
*(I'm NOT addressing sin here. That's a whole different topic.)
I won't join Slashcott. OTOH, If Beta goes live, I just won't be back until it's fixed. Sorry Dice.
There go a few more STEM students who'll turn into business majors instead. And in their place, India, China and Korea will send students to your universities to learn, take their new knowledge and skills home and leave you weaker as a country.
Well done !
the AF-47 was in fact a 10 foot long halo sniper rifle replica that does not even look real (http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2011/11/medium_3ce16ecb6851fdac6329346672baea73.jpg).
From the picture, that actually looks pretty real. Indeed, it looks extremely similar to a Barrett Light .50 if you squint just a little. I think you're being a tool.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
No harm was actually done, this was a case of I don't know what I'm looking at. Accidents happen and in this case I hope as soon as the airport discovered it was a robot all parties were let free with a FULL apology and that is that.
A barret light .50 is like 1/4 the size of this gun replica. and neither look like a AK47.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
At least this didn't happen up in Boston. If it had the police would be claiming the students wanted it to look like a bomb, claim it was a 'hoax device', and say how grateful they should be that the police did not gun them down on the spot.
No, it's actually about 1/2 of the size (I've seen one up close) but some of the proportions are pretty close and while neither looks like an AK47 (or any AK-series rifle for that matter) I didn't say they did. The average person doesn't know shit about guns and will just use the name of the most dangerous gun they've heard of if they see someone carrying a big scary-looking gun. It is irresponsible to carry a real-looking fake gun in public without some kind of additional dressing or effects that make[s] it clear it's a costume piece because you WILL get MWAG ("man with a gun") reports phoned in.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
...Welcome to 'Merica, where to err on the side of any extreme is a good thing.
And common sense is ignored.
~Just as a thing fails if it lacks a kernel, so too it fails if it lacks a skin. ~ Rumi, Discourses
Well considering that it is legal to own and carry in public a AK-47 where that happened I would disagree that it was irresponsible.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
It's legal to own and carry in public guns similar to an AK-47 where I live too, but it's still irresponsible, because it's best to realize that some people get hysterical when they see them.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I had a friend who almost triggered a bomb threat in high school when his science experiment, consisting of a video game controller fashioned from a football helmet, mercury switches and lots of wires, was found during a routine locker inspection.
While all you say is absolutely correct, it's also pretty damning evidence of the TSA's utter uselessness.
Was any needed?
I am for abolishing TSA and letting airports handle security directly. Possibly forming some federal team of behavioral profilers to be lent to airports, the only approach I feel is worth anything at the moment.
Radiological monitors would be good though just to prevent an airborne dirty-bomb. Only so much lead shielding you can take with you in a carry on.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
S/He should have had enough sense to realize carrying on the contraption was a bad idea. Hey perfesser, ever heard of Fedex?
sigs are for losers (except to point out that sigs are for losers)
Tidy up those loose wires!
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
Does that come with some type of shiny pony?
Another reason for the pink "not a bomb!!!!" sticker that only the TSA has access to.
I've never seen that one. What airport do they use that at? And how, once they apply it to the device that is "not a bomb" and hand it back to the passenger, do they keep it out of the hands of a passenger?
Kind of self-defeating if you ask me. A pink sticker they can put on carryon items that they have to take off the carryon items so only they have access to them.
That was a kind of roundabout way of saying it's impossible. TSA may be the only ones who have access to them before they start using them, but once in use, passengers will have them, and a passenger who is carrying "not a bomb" today may be excited to stick it on his "is a bomb" tomorrow. That makes it useless.
Actually they don't have that. I was mistakenly thinking of when I return poor quality items to Wal-Mart. Apologies.
Also, my whole "pink sticker" joke fell rather flat. The point you made so well was what I assumed would make it funny. C'est la vie.
I missed this article yesterday since I was too busy huddling into a basement to avoid tornadoes so I doubt anyone will read this comment, let alone moderate it, but I think there's a small bit of information that might be essential here.
Something that people should realize is: Dallas Love Field, which is where this incident occurred, is a relatively small airport.
Dallas has two airports, Dallas Love Field and the Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport (DFW Airport). Dallas Love Field was the first airport (it's the one JFK flew into right before his assassination), DFW Airport was built in the 1970's.
Dallas Love Field is 1,300 acres and has one terminal. Until a few years ago only one airline flew out of it, Southwest Airlines (there's four airlines now). DFW Airport is the second largest in the country at 18,000 acres, five terminals (that have to be traversed by monorail) and dozens of airlines flying in and out.
The reason I point this out is that there's a lot of outcry in this discussion of "why did this shut down HALF AN AIRPORT" and I think most people are thinking it's DFW Airport they're referring to in the article, not Dallas Love Field (as in, most people not in the Dallas area might think that Dallas Love Field is the main airport of the Dallas area). The reason they shut down half the airport is because the airport is not very big to begin with. The isolated area of DFW Airport that would have been shut down in the same instance is probably the same size as the half of Dallas Love Field they did shut down.
Not that this justifies putting students in handcuffs but I thought I'd point out that the scale of the reaction needs to be considered.
Schnapple
So let me get this straight. Terrorists would leave a "device" on a plane so that it detonates once the plane is on the ground, there is little fuel left, and all the passengers were off?
Okay, you tried, but failed. Planes get refueled and reloaded. As for "Worst Terrorists Ever", there are plenty of stupid criminals (Shoe Bomber ring a bell?). So, you can't make assumptions about any item left behind. The military typically blows up things that are found on bases around the world, and has at least as far back as when I was in the AF (1970s).
While the anecdote was cute, it doesn't dictate what policy is, or should be. If a suspicious item is found, then yes the people responsible should be handcuffed until such time as it is clear that there is no threat. That's SOP for most law enforcement.
And, in response to your follow up post, not everyone is a suicide bomber.
Just another day in Paradise
We just lost a scientist. That kid is going to be too traumatized to ever do science again, all thanks to the TSA. It's possible that the TSA just prevented us from developing warp drive, teleportation, photon torpedoes, or even self-toasting bread.
Because, at a glance, I could tell it's not a bomb.
Everybody at every level over-reacts and assumes the worst. This is what the USA is all about these days. Hysteria, ignorance, and fear.
What kind of moron takes something that "look[s] like a cell phone attached to a remote control car with some exposed wires protruding" onto an airplane?
What kind of moron supports those eroding all of our constitutional rights by accepting the idea that just because someone does something out of the ordinary, they must be a threat? If the person who brought the device on the plane were a terrorist, he would be a moron. Hopefully there are many such terrorists. The fact that all of us have to start thinking like terrorists to avoid looking suspicious is the best evidence that the terrorists are winning.