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Snoozing Pilot Mistakes Venus For Aircraft; Panic, Injuries Ensue
Cazekiel writes "In January 2011, an Air Canada Boeing 767 carrying 95 passengers and eight crew members was on route to Zurich from Toronto when its First Officer, fatigued and disoriented from a long nap he'd taken, panicked in seeing what he believed to be a U.S. cargo plane on a collision course with his aircraft. The panicking F.O. pushed forward on the control column to make a rapid descent. Only, it wasn't an aircraft he'd been looking at, but Venus. According to the article: 'The airliner dropped about 400 feet before the captain pulled back on the control column. Fourteen passengers and two crew were hurt, and seven needed hospital treatment. None were wearing seat belts, even though the seat-belt sign was on.' The only danger in this situation had been the F.O. napping for 75 minutes instead of the maximum 40, as the disorientation and confusion stemming from deeper sleep was the culprit in this mix-up. However, the Air Canada Pilots Association, 'has long pressured authorities to take the stresses of night flying into account when setting the maximum hours a pilot can work,' taking into account that North Atlantic night-flights are hardest on an already-fatigued pilot."
Were many beavers injured?
then they could just show video of what happens if you don't use your seatbelt on an aircraft to that 10% of idiots that know better instead of the boring safety talk.
Mesdames et Messieurs, dans le cas d'une collision interplanétaire s'il vous plaît attachez vos ceintures ...
Ladies and Gentlemen, in the event of an interplanetary collision please fasten your seatbelts...
like most US carriers as well. just fly cathay pacific and let the idiots take western carriers. even emirates is better than most western carriers.
It's too big to be a space station. I have a very bad feeling about this.
Luckily it wasn't in America. If it was, the TSA would stop allowing pilots through checkpoints, since they're clearly a flight risk.
Do planes no longer have this?
Never say never. Ah!! I did it again!
Personally, I'd prefer my pilots to take evasive action when they feel its neccessary, and not pick up a habit of second guessing themselves to avoid bad PR. Yes, passengers were injured, but TFA notes that the seatbelt light was on.
May the Maths Be with you!
If the seatbelt light was on and the passengers were injured from not wearing their seatbelt, then it's their own fault. The seabelt sign IS A LAWFUL ORDER from the flight crew. They need to STFU.
Emo Plilips & Pauly Shore star in "High Air"
Snoozing Pilot Mistakes Venus For Aircraft; Panic, [Injuries] Hilarity Ensues...
Laters Sol "Have you found the secrets of the universe? Asked Zebade "I'm sure I left them here somewhere"
It sounds like the FO was napping, woke up and immediately put the plane into a dive based on a snap judgement, and the Captian (who we presume was not flying the plane or manning the controls) recognized the error and corrected.
It sounded like nobody was flying the plan (autopilot presumably), but that the FO, who was napping, was actually on the controls. It sounds more like a problem with pilots sleeping while they should be awake and alert. The article was so light it was impossible to actually tell, through.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Thank goodness he missed the planet by 67 million miles..
You have a union, use it. Stop flying. Oh wait, this is Canuckistan, where the government has to do everything.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
It's a planet!
Scientists point out problems, engineers fix them
altslashdot.org: The future of slashdot.
Everyone is piling on this guy now, but think about what would have happened if he'd actually HIT Venus - nobody would have survived that! Think, people, THINK!
Venus is a babe. Nobody sober could ever mistake her for an aircraft.
The TSA would only prevent them from boarding if they weren't a flight risk.
If you bring your own soda from home, YOU HATE AMERICA.
The media reports are all harping on the idea of "crash dive to avoid Venus", but that's incidential. There was an oncoming aircraft (but not on a collision course) and the FO erred in thinking it was going to collide. Source - TSB report.
at least he didn't dive to avoid hitting Uranus
The only danger in this situation had been the F.O. napping for 75 minutes instead of the maximum 40
And all the people not wearing seatbelts.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
This is just part of the propaganda wars between Air Canada and the pilots' union. The federal government removed the right to strike, and so members of the union are coming close to wildcat strikes (which are extremely uncommon in Canada, and illegal, I hear they're "the way things work" in the US... big difference in mentality I think). So Air Canada management is trying to paint them in as poor a manner as possible. I haven't read the article(this being Slashdot and all) so I can't tell which side this story is telling, but I'd take it with a grain of salt either way.
We may never know.
[End Of Line]
Air Canada has treated its employees so poorly for so long its employees treat their customers in due kind and what should be a pleasant experience (getting out and moving about our wide country) has become as loathsome as riding the Greyhound across the prairies (suicide will enter your mind at least once).
AC's flight and ground crews have been screwed over by management and government time and again, and they all work too hard for too little (like so many of us, where has our grandparent's Canada gone?). This incident shows what happens when people work too long, for too little.
But fuck it, West Jet is cheaper anyways...
95 passengers on a 767 means room to stretch out! Unlike the cattle cars I usually have to fly, packed in like kippers. *shakes tiny fist at Delta, Frontier, etc*
Could have happened to anyone.
Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
There was an oncoming aircraft on the same flight path 1000ft below. The FO was visually searching for that aircraft, saw venus, panicked, and put the aircraft nose-down.
The captain immediately assumed control of the plane and put the plane nose-up.
The planes were on the exact same flight path thanks to GPS. They were both depending on the 1000ft difference in altitude to prevent a head-on collision. A better idea is for each plane to offset right of the flight path by 1 mile.
He did not take evasive action to avoid Venus, but did point to Venus and briefly discussed if it was an aircraft when he first woke up. He later made the evasive maneuver when he misjudged the position of another aircraft. The two events are only connected by the fact the pilot was entirely too exhausted.
The "fasten seatbelt" lights are on for good reason: if the airpline suddenly loses altitude, you won't crack your skull on the roof.
You should avoid spending any time at all without your seatbelts in an airplane because, in some rare occurrences, these drops will happen without any warning at all.
There was an oncoming aircraft on the same flight path 1000ft below. The FO was visually searching for that aircraft, saw venus, panicked, and put the aircraft nose-down.
Go figure, a groggy pilot's panicked reaction put the plane closer to danger.
The enemies of Democracy are
Why not have the pilots take their naps in a separate bunk near the crew compartment. It gives them better rest, and the act of climbing out of the bunk and walking to the cockpit gives them time to help shake off the grogginess.
Or is it better to have them sleep in their seats so they are immediately ready to step in if needed?
Considering that Venus is right now very very bright this is not that surprising. Also Venus is standing unusually high in the sky in evenings.
Common sense should let people keep their safety belts on anyway.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
We cannot have laws against sleeping, as it is a natural need. However we could improve safety by giving customers more information.
For instance, a law could force airlines company to tell customers how many hours a week the pilot worked, and how many flight he did in a row. That would help us avoiding pilots made dangerous by insane airline work policy.
Please, please, please -- there are tons of very well-considered safety points in the real report, and the linked articles are very very very wrong.
http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/aviation/2011/a11f0012/a11f0012.asp
To quote:
At 0155, the captain made a mandatory position report with the Shanwick Oceanic control centre. This aroused the FO. The FO had rested for 75 minutes but reported not feeling altogether well. Coincidentally, an opposite–direction United States Air Force Boeing C–17 at 34 000 feet appeared as a traffic alert and collision avoidance system (TCAS) target on the navigational display (ND). The captain apprised the FO of this traffic.
Over the next minute or so, the captain adjusted the map scale on the ND in order to view the TCAS target 5 and occasionally looked out the forward windscreen to acquire the aircraft visually. The FO initially mistook the planet Venus for an aircraft but the captain advised again that the target was at the 12 o'clock position and 1000 feet below. The captain of ACA878 and the oncoming aircraft crew flashed their landing lights. The FO continued to scan visually for the aircraft. When the FO saw the oncoming aircraft, the FO interpreted its position as being above and descending towards them. The FO reacted to the perceived imminent collision by pushing forward on the control column. The captain, who was monitoring TCAS target on the ND, observed the control column moving forward and the altimeter beginning to show a decrease in altitude. The captain immediately disconnected the autopilot and pulled back on the control column to regain altitude. It was at this time the oncoming aircraft passed beneath ACA878. The TCAS did not produce a traffic or resolution advisory.
Obi-wan voice: "That's no moon! Its a ..."
Have gnu, will travel.
Is it just me or does is sound like the PIC's action of pulling back so rapidly was a bigger problem than the initial mistake? In his correction, he overshot the assigned altitude by as much as the initial descent went under it. It really just sounds to me like everyone was just having a bad night. Any flight you can walk away from, though...
After naptime, you cannot fly the plane for 20 minutes, period. When you want to perform a violent maneuver, you shall consult the person to your right or left and get agreement first.
I used to fly my lightplane back and forth from my home in the San Francisco Bay Area to my Los Angeles office on the fourth floor of a building in Hollywood.
There was an antenna across the street that looked exactly like the profile of an airplane heading toward us. Whenever I was walking down the hall and would glance out the window, I would see that and immediately, uncontrollably, startle. When you see a plane that close you literally have a second or two to make a decision, and it becomes a reflex to act immediately. Now, walking down the hall of a building no reaction is actually called for; but it didn't stop me from jumping!
I love Mondays. On a Monday, anything is possible.
80+ more completely scared more than they have ever been in their entire lives.
I did not know that a planes controls would have that quick of an impact to cause that many injuries. I've been on a flight that dropped suddenly for about 2 seconds and people hit the ceiling or landed on the seat back, quite a few flights where we were just about weightless and people were screaming but no one came out of their seats and I've also had a freak quick rolling which caused me to smack my head on the side of the plane from the aisle seat on a J41 turboprop commuter even with my seatbelt on (there are only 2 seats on that side but that's still pretty far.). All of those were turbulence though.
I hate flying. It used to not bother me at all. I started working at a major airline and was flying almost daily for a few years and I got gradually more nervous as time went on. After leaving the airline (I didn't leave because of the flying fear), I was still flying occasionally at my new job. My fear and stress gradually got to the point I would get nervous and sick a few days before a flight and was close to having panic attacks. My fear and stress eventually peaked and now I'm working my way back down to where it doesn't really bother me much anymore. I still get nervous and stressed out but nothing really bad. My current job has me flying about once a month, that seems like a perfect interval to keep me active and used to it but not too much that I get too stressed. Its amazing our how little control we can have over our thoughts and fears.
New regulations are expected after it was revealed that the pilot in fact knew it was the planet Venus but the mushrooms he had taken had just kicked in and he was afraid of hitting the planet. New regulations will restrict the use of mushrooms to really long and boring daytime flights
At a secret location deep within an aricraft hanger at Dulles Int. Airpot, VA, TSA's Crack 'Cocaine' Scientists are very busy at work on a technological solution to the 'Bad Pilot' senerio made so popular by recent 00's American Presidents.
Using radar technology and interferometric alorithms (not Al Gore rithems) the TSA Science Team made a stupindous breakthroug, yes ... er .. no .. not the molistation of airline passangers at the air terminal gates spread far and wide across the US, but, and a dam big Butt at that, a means to kill without attribution, airline pilots.
As every American citizen knows, the TSA considers American citizans, other than the TSA and their Congress members who they pay lots of cash to and of course the Cabinet Officals and secertaries and prostitudes and drug deals, as the Enemy #1 of, well -- them, and the US, in general, on a rather lower secondary threat level, so there. Furthermore, a technology to kill the pilot will kill hundreds of American citizens, which the TSA views as the greatest acheivement possible toward fulling their Constitutional Fortress bequifed by the US Congress and the President Geroge W. Bush, extended by President Obama, of Preserving the Prurity of the TSA Precious Bodilly Fluids. :P TSA baffoon boffins
Pilot snoozes on YOU!
This sig is not paradoxical or ironic.
Hurry up and implode already so we can get some actual competition and competitive prices.
The good news is that the evasive action was successful, and the plane did not hit Venus.
I'd be more suspicious of Venus... clearly it was trying to take down a passenger aircraft
And Venus is the morning star, also known as Lucifer.
Please take note! Only hijinks can ensue. Nothing else can ensue, ever. Including injuries. Even if injuries do *technically* ensue, please use a different word to describe the phenomenon.
What was the planet Venus doing in our airspace?
... it was an UFO ...
Ground: "Relax, it's only a UFO"
Table-ized A.I.
I declared once that Pluto was a planet, and the Astronomical Society injured me.
Table-ized A.I.
I want my pilot(s) to react automatically and fast in all situations. If that FO was right, and the C-17 was in their path, he would be a hero instead of a dimwit. I will gladly fly with him. He's safe.
I think those are the ones that the parent meant. Gives you some idea of what kind of situation it must have been!
Why do the regulations specify a max nap time of 40 mins to avoid "deeper" sleep? Assuming a canonical 90 min sleep cycle you are much more likely to be in N3 sleep after 40 mins than after 75. If they want to avoid pilots waking during SWS they should either mandate naps to be less than 25 mins or more than 60.
You are an idiot or just didn't bother to read the facts. The FO was avoiding a REAL plane that was flying BELOW them by DIVING! Can you see a problem with that? Don't just read the headline and think you know anything. The FO took the plane out of safety INTO danger because he wrongly presumed a plane he had been told was safely below them to be on the same level. This is BAD and why procedures matter so fucking much. Countless crashes and subsequent loss of life have been caused by pilots mis-interpreting situations and then wrong correcting for them rather then first trying to determine what is really going on. If the captain had not interrupted the dive, it might have caused a collision because now both aircraft were on the same level rather then the 1000 feet separation demanded for safety.
Maybe it would be smart to not allow pilots to nap in the pilot seat and to do a mandatory 5 minute exercise before returning to the controls. And to have three pilots as standard so one can sleep, stretch his/her legs and two are always operating the aircraft. Oh wait, then you might have to pay more! Can't have that can we.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
There was an oncoming aircraft on the same flight path 1000ft below.
I was going to call bullshit, but apparently not; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reduced_Vertical_Separation_Minima
What could possibly go... Oh, wait.
Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
think what would have happened if the pilot had collided with Venus.
If the seatbelt light was on and the passengers were injured from not wearing their seatbelt, then it's their own fault. The seabelt sign IS A LAWFUL ORDER from the flight crew. They need to STFU.
The seatbelt sign is totally irrelevant to this.
It *wasn't* on "on the off chance we need to take evasive action" It was purely coincidental. The sign may have helped reduce the number of injuries, but that's about it.
Now if they were hurt because of turbulence or something, well that is a different scenario.
PS We flew Air Canada (to Canada of all places) from Australia recently. We spent an inordinate amount of time with the seatbelt sign on. It really wasn't that rough. When you have the sign on too long, well people just *have* to get up and about for various reasons. It is going to happen.
Ever stop to think
Monty Python Airplane Pilots
"Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way." -- Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy
No other object as been misidentified as a flying saucer more often than the planet Venus. Your scientists have yet to discover how neural networks create self-consciousness, let alone how the human brain processes two-dimensional retinal images into the three-dimensional phenomenon known as perception. Yet you somehow brazenly declare seeing is believing?
If the heroic Canuck hadn't have taken evasive action, his plane would have collided with Venus and they ALL would have been dead!!
It's better to maybe bump your head a little, eh? Still make it home for Kraft Dinner, guy.
it would have been worse.
You are telling me we give these guys permissions to nap in their seats while operating an aircraft?
WTF? When is it ever ok to fall asleep on the job?, less hours, shifts with the co pilot or something...
I do not understand the story being what it is, if they are allowed 45 minutes, 46 minutes makes it a fine for them?
Who keeps count....is there a stop watch somewhere, or hidden cameras?
Pilots have mistaken Venus for a UFO many times. Some have even mistaken the MOON for a UFO (either in clouds or while drunk).
I can see how one could mistake Venus for the landing lights of an aircraft several miles away, but how long would it take to realize that it WASN'T MOVING?
You mean Urectum?
Agreed. That's what I was thinking when I read this article: two planes, out over the atlantic, passing directly over/under each other with a thousand feet to spare, WHY?
Not a pilot here, but I would assume that over the atlantic there is more than enough room for planes to be offset both horizontally and vertically. Seems like in that airspace there is no reason to allow one unforeseen maneuver put people so close to a collision.
Looks like he picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue!
"He's intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking.": Spock has a breakthrough on the problems with Khan's military tactics.
This is probably the same type of "Pilot" that is referenced when the subject of UFO's comes up...
Just ask my grandfather.... oops you can't, he's dead.
BTW, I hope I die peacefully in my sleep too. Not screaming in terror like all his passengers did.
Why?
GPS lays out the most direct route. That route is processed through very expensive software that predicts the most optimum flightpath accounting for winds, temperatures and the optimum speeds for the airframe and engines. Airframes and engines tending to be very similar, and the winds being the same for everyone, and everyone wants to depart at 6pm (right after their last meeting), and arrive ASAP, planes tend to get bunched up.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
the only thing that was wrong here is that the passengers weren't wearing a seatbelt when they were told to be wearing one.
there is absolutely nothing wrong with an experienced pilot choosing to take a sudden action to a perceived immediate threat. the entire point is to not think it through, because there may not be enough time.
to suddenly drop the aircraft by 400 feet, with thousands of feet to go isn't dangerous (functioning aircraft presumed). It's even within normal altitudes bands.
I don't think anyone would have preferred no action taken to a perceived threat.
so, no seatbelt, no safety. big surprise. I hope those were mostly u.s. and zurich passengers, I don't want to believe that my fellow canadians would avoid wearing seatbelts just for fun.
All I'm saying is that if the gps, or whatever is guiding the plane is smart enough to offset the planes in altitude, coils it not also offset them laterally by a few thousand feet
The injuries were self-inflicted. That "put your seat belt on, NOW" warning sign which is visible from every passenger seat, is installed, wired up and tested to communicate the message that you should, doh!, put your seat belt on, NOW. Not in ten minutes ; not when you feel it convenient ; not if your horoscope says beware of seagull shit. It means, approximately, "put your seat belt on, NOW."
Most of the time when I fly (I've had my flight to work bumped three times this week already), then not wearing the seatbelt is an unemployment offence (the flight would have to be turned round and landed as soon as possible). As is listening to an MP3 player (you might miss announcements from the pilots), reading an e-book, having a phone in your pocket (as opposed to hold-baggage).
Until you grow wings and feathers, flying is fucking dangerous, and should be treated with due respect.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Venus does look really bright in the evening.
The seatbelt sign is irrelevant. If you are sitting, the belt should be on. Period. That not only are you sitting without your belt, but you are also doing so when the "fasten seatbelts" sign is illuminated just proves you a moron.
Learn to love Alaska
Just for fun:
Distance from Earth to Venus at closest point: About 38,000,000km
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_distance_from_Venus_to_earth
Cruising Speed of a Boeing 767: 858 km/h
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_767
38 Million km / 858km/h = 44290 h
44290 h / 24 = 1845d
1845d / 365 = 5 years.
So it would take a Boeing 767 cruising at 858 km/h for just over 5 years to reach Venus.
Which I have to tell you is a lot quicker than I thought it would be, so maybe my math is wrong. Though I am also not taking into consideration gravity, or lack of air, etc...