Slashdot Mirror
India Test Fires Long-Range, Nuke-Capable Missile
An anonymous reader writes "India has successfully test fired a long-range, nuke-capable missile. Named after Hindu God of fire 'Agni', the ICBM is capable of hitting targets in China, East Africa and parts of Europe. With a successful launch of the missile, India joins an elite group of nations with long-range weapons. 'The BBC's Andrew North in Delhi says Indian officials deny it, but everyone believes the missile is mainly aimed at deterring China. A spokesman for China's Foreign Ministry, Liu Weimin, said his country was not threatened by the test. ... It was only launched once officials were sure they had the best weather conditions — so this was as much a demonstration as a real test, to show India's rivals that it has this kind of capability.'"
Its a wonderful day in the neighborhood....
Let's just get this straight.
So North Korea, a despot nation with no natural resources and maybe, perhaps, who the hell actually knows, may just have a nuclear weapon but we're not totally sure if they actually work, fire a "missile" and everyone is pissed.
India, a populous and relatively rich nation with a known nuclear capability, which has been to war with it's neighbour who also has a known nuclear capability, fires it's missile and we don't bat an eyelid?
What the fuck?
From TFA, a spokesman for China's Foreign Ministry, Liu Weimin, said "China and India are large developing nations. We are not competitors but partners."
I say bullshit.
It's a huge poverty stricken country. It can't even provide food and clean water adequately (and don't get me started on the filth of their healthcare system). Yet they have enough funds to pay for this stuff. Great work and good priorities India!
Respect is earned.
So far, Pakistan and its proxies have spent decades being violent terrorist barbarians and being a nuisance, and are then shocked (SHOCKED! I say...) that the entire world hates their guts.
Pakistan is close to being a failed state.
India, on the other hand, is the world's largest democracy.
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
Stop acting like this is fair, the ones who got there first are the ones who decides who has these weapons and who doesn't. This "Oh but we have nukes! why do we get nukes and no one else does?" is old and just shows off your bleeding heart and inability to understand how things work on the world stage. India isn't run by a, like stated above, a batshit leader who is constantly threatening their neighbors. I say more power to them, they can have their rockets.
Excuse me, I didn't get it. Are you talking about India or the USA?
India is a country surrounded by Pakistan, China, and nearby N. Korea, and other countries who are horribly oppressive, violent and aggressive regimes. They are also currently harboring the Tibetan government in exile; which royally pisses China off.
Time will tell if this was a good idea but from a strategic point of view, I have to agree with their decision.
And don't forget - public protests can be the polar opposite of what's said behind closed doors. Especially, when you need to keep amicable relations with all sides.
Um, India to Europe is a bit farther than Normandy to London.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
North Korea got nuclear weapons technology from Pakistan, and possibly from China many years ago, not from India. Since India is not, unlike their neighbors to the north-west, bat-shit insane, they probably know that selling asymmetric weapons tech to countries that are bat-shit insane does not advance any of India's political or economic interests. As such they have probably already taken measures comparable to the US or France to secure their project rather than cold calling every drug exporting, famine inducing, hereditary dictatorship in their Rolodex.
And for similar reasons, nobody is any more worked up about this than if France tested a new missile, and maybe even a little less concerned than if the US developed a new ICBM.
North Korea had just signed a agreement not to test weapons – which specifically included not testing long range missiles for “scientific purposes” in exchange for food aid. The ink was not even dry when they 1. launched the missiles and 2. said there would be dire repercussions if the U.S. did not deliver on the food aid.
The rationality and stability of the North Korea regime is very different then that of India.
Because India isn't still technically in a state of war with the US (the Korean War never had a peace treaty, only an armistice, so it is still technically in a state of war), they haven't threatened to destroy the US, they aren't lead by a psychotic megalomaniac who might actually use nuclear weapons, and the missile can only reach to somewhere in China, which India is far more likely to ever go to war with than with the US. In other words, because the US has no real reason to care if India gets a long range missile.
"None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
I have read this bullshit before. India had a GDP of 1.73 trillion dollars last year, of this it spend 36 billion on R&D including this one. So you are saying its wrong to spend less than 2 cents of every dollar you make on protecting yourself. Not only that, this tech also is related to satellite launch market, which is quite lucrative. India also launches and makes money on that.
So don't buy your LED TV, smartphone, Laptop until you pay off your mortgage, that is wrong priorities by your logic. Furthermore, dare you get a gun or a security system in your house until your mortgage and debt are paid off.
What rubbish!
In NK military parades, intermingled with the goosestepping infantry, you will find tanks with messages scrawled across the front along the lines of 'we will crush the oppressive american dogs'. Meanwhile most of the country starves waiting for food aid the US and others provide, while the leaders sit around fucking whores and ordering the deaths of anyone who dare question their authority. Sure, India is a bit of a shithole, but they aren't comparable at all.
They can thank about a hundred years of British rule for driving them in to poverty. India was among the wealthiest countries on earth until the British showed up and proceeded to siphon trillions of dollars (in today's terms) of raw wealth like gold, precious metals, and gems, from them. Want to see a small example of India's former wealth? Look no further than the crown that sat upon the late Queen Elizabeth's head. The world would look totally different today if Britain wasn't able to steal from India to help get them through two world wars.
India's continued investment to prove that they can keep up with powerful western nations will only help prop up their nation as a whole, and help lift all out of poverty over time. Count the poor on the streets of Bangalore (a major IT hub), and compare it with other Indian cities that haven't see the same level of investment, like Calcutta, and you'll see what first hand what it can do.
"False hope is why we'll never run out of natural resources!" - Lewis Black
Well, the NPT itself is a carte blanche to US, USSR, UK, France, and China. The NPT gives carte blanche to all nuclear powers prior to 1969 and India tested in 1974 and many /signed/ the NPT in 1992, like China and France. That said, like any legal document the NPT has loopholes, or at least ambiguous wording, and just like the wealthiest lawyer wins, the wealthiest country wins. The U.S. decided to re-interpret the NPT from "not collaborating with nations outside the NPT on nuclear matters" with "not collaborating with nations outside the NPT on /military/ nuclear matters" and gave a green-light for selling nuclear fuel and technology to the civilian sector in India (which consequently frees up India's domestic nuclear resources for military use if they can import nuclear fuel and tech for civilian use). And once the U.S. gave that interpretation, Russia, France, and soon Canada and Australia will also adopt that interpretation and begin exporting nuclear fuel and tech to India for civilian use. Australia and Canada are big since together they have 80% of the world's uranium deposits.
In the end, it's all big chess game. What was the point of the NPT? Choices like "world peace" and such are nice for elementary school kids, but the reality is that the NPT like everything else is done to win, and in this case to maintain status quo for the major powers so they remain major powers. Then why be flexible and allow India? Because rigid structures are more prone to break than flexible structures. India became the 3rd largest economy ahead of Japan this year on purchasing power and by 2050 both the economies of China and India will independently surpass the U.S., and combined surpass the U.S plus Europe. Moreover, the U.S. doesn't see any long-term conflict with India, and in fact sees India as an ally which has a democracy, a liberal society, and a focus on business and economy rather than military. While India has nuclear and missile programs, its military budget is tiny, at only 2.7% of GDP, compared with 2.6% for England, 3.9% for Russia, 4.7% for the U.S. and 10.4% for Saudi Arabia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Military_expenditure_by_GDP_2008.png
All that said, it makes sense to slowly induct India into the status quo than risk a change in the global order. Every exclusive club has to occasionally induct new members to keep from turning irrelevant. That said, while a country club may accept a rich black man with the changing of the times, it's not a free-for-all where it accepts a homeless man. So the nuclear status quo will
Have you ever been to Baltimore?
We are not poor, some may be poor. Stop telling that Indians are poor
340 Million Indians live in extreme poverty. There's a decent percent of population that doesn't live in extreme poverty but ignoring them doesn't help (or fool) anybody.
We have largest gold in reserve
Actually you still have to catch up to Germany, but this will serve you well in the future. At least the people who don't die of malnutrition in the meantime.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Has India actually ever been the aggressor in wars w/ Pakistan? Nope, except for arguably in 1971 when they interceded on one side's behalf in the Pakistani civil war that resultated in millions of refugees crossing the border in the former East Pakistan.
There were and remain solid reasons to remain in good stead with India. It's the country that's going to keep the schizophrenic state, Pakistan, in line and is also the only substantial military and economic competitor to China in the region. As well, there is over a half a century of reasonablly good relations between the two countries.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
There's no denying India has a long way to go, but those who follow her history know that she has come a long way. Instead of turning into basket cases like Pakistan and Bangladesh, India has maintained a civil, democratic government even in the face of substantial hardship. Unlike so many other of the former British possessions India has not turned into a basket case, and has steadily been improving.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Why do you think Iran (a country which has not launched an offensive war in a very long time) does not have the right to defend themselves against The US and Israel (two countries with hardons for invading other countries and do so on a regular basis without even bothering to manufacture a credible pretense, especially muslim countries)
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
You know, I've always wondered why (in the original series at least) there seemed to be few, if any Indians or Chinese for that matter.
Then I remembered a line that Spock once said that went something like "the 15 million dead from WWI, the 60 million in WWII or the 600 million in WWIII". (He was talking about the stupidity of mankind after Kirk's boasting).
Then the movie "Star Trek: First Contact" came out which was supposedly set in North America after a big war(?) had impoverished the populace but hadn't reduced the country to radioactive cinders.
I never read any of the "official" (or unofficial) histories but I was wondering; was a nuclear war supposed to have taken place, not between the U.S. and USSR but in Asia? Between India and China perhaps?
(I'm glad to have gone to see the Taj Mahal last year; I've always thought that if Pakistan and India went to all out war, it would be the first to go.)
Ok, ok I realize that probably the real reason for the dearth of these nationalities was probably due to the script choices of Gene Roddenberry or some casting decisions but I was wondering if there was any justification after the fact. Anyway, if so I hope life DOESN'T follow art!
No, I meant trillions. It was over two billion British pounds of raw wealth goods before the 1920's, cumulative over 150+ years, with a lot of the wealth drain coming early on, which works out to well over a trillion dollars if you normalize over that period and adjust for inflation. And that's just for trade deficit to Britain for raw goods and precious metals. It does not include the fact that up to 40% of India's entire budget was spent on their military, which was under British control at the time, and was "the backbone of the power of the British empire". Yes, Britain did some good things in India, but it was a huge net loss for them. You can start reading about it here, and work your way out from there. An AC using a term like "utter rubbish".. heh... I don't know many people outside the UK who use terms like that ;-)
"False hope is why we'll never run out of natural resources!" - Lewis Black
AGNI means fire in many Indian languages. The word also refers to the god of fire "Agni". Slashdot description "Named after Hindu God of fire Agni" - is misleading and insinuates some type of religious weaponry. It is like saying Saree is a Hindu dress...Saree is an Indian dress.
Hinduism is more of a way of life than a religion. And India has the largest number of Muslims after Indonesia. The 2% of Christians will be more than 20 million - much more than many European nations. This plurality one should not forget.
In fact the chief scientist of AGNI mission - Tessy Thomas - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tessy_Thomas - is from my state Kerala. She is a Christian and she named her son Tejas - a Hindu name. I am a Christian, but my name is Hindu.
Try to understand the complexity...generalizing a complex country is the basic mistake Western journalists make about India.
Tat Tvam Asi
Yes and compared to most of the world, Baltimore feeds and waters the vast majority of our population. OTOH, in India, you will find that most infant death is from diarrhea caused by unsanitary water. Likewise, you have ppl eating their own fecal matter just because they are so hungry. In NK and even in India, they strip the bark from trees to make soups so as to put something in their stomach. So, what issues do you see similar in USA?
Or are you just an asshole that has never been outside of the west and have absolutely NO idea of how bad things really can get?
"Iran is no threat? The country where they all come together and shout "Death to America" every single day? For over thirty years and counting? "
I heartily point you out to some old Nat'l Geo magazines, where IRANS THEN-LEADER was extolling their wonderful nuclear power program in advertisements....
And the USA was SUPPORTING IT.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
"For all we know cpu6502 could in fact be Mahmoud Ahmadinejad."
But there are no gays in Iran!
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Nice sentiment. Too bad it has been proven time and time again that it only works for those who are wealthy enough to hide behind walled gardens and personal security while the rest of society goes to hell.
I for one am glad to live in a nation where even if my neighbor is the most useless sack of shit ever, his children won't have to go out and steal from my children but will instead have access to education and healthcare so as to be able to carve out a life for themselves.
People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
Iran is no threat? The country where they all come together and shout "Death to America" every single day?
Indeed. Look at the huge death toll all this shouting has caused all across the United States. The shouting must be stopped!!!1!
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
The US navy, at various times in war, had 2 warships named after Hindu gods - one was USS Indra, the god of thunder, lightning and rain (and ruler of the demi gods) and the other was USS Krishna. Both saw action during the Vietnam war. Does that worry you?
This 'long range missile' was designed with SUBMARINE LAUNCH CAPABILITY IN MIND.
Does India have working Submarines?
Then the US is a target.
The Agni is a land-based missile and is expected to be launched from rail-based vehicles. The sub-launched missiles are the Sagarika (700 km range and tested successfully but not yet in service) and the K-4 (3500 km range which is under development and hasn't had any flight tests as yet)
India does not have any ballistic missile submarines (SSBNs) in service yet. The first one - the Arihant was launched last year and is undergoing tests. All other submarines are either SSKs or SSNs
Why don't you move to Somalia?