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RIM's Future Hangs On Developer Support For 'New BlackBerry'
alphadogg writes "With its future up for grabs, Research in Motion at its annual BlackBerry World conference next week will focus on simplifying development for its soon-to-be-unveiled BlackBerry 10 operating system. HTML5 is one key technology in that strategy to create a viable ecosystem of applications for a new generation of mobile devices expected to ship by year-end. The simplicity is needed because BB10, based on a real time kernel acquired with RIM's buyout of QNX Software Systems in 2010, is a complete break with the software that runs on standard BlackBerry smartphones. 'It's a bit of a challenge,' says Tyler Lessard, formerly a RIM vice president in charge of the global developer program, and since October 2011 chief marketing officer at mobile security vendor Fixmo. 'There's very little or no compatibility between the old and new operating systems. Existing apps can't be carried forward to QNX and BB 10. The question is, once the BlackBerry 10 smartphones launch, can RIM have an adequate catalog of apps?'"
Embrace Android, become a hardware power house. License BES tech, advertise battery life.
They're going to be stuck in the same position that Palm was only 3 years further down the line in technology. QNX is pretty slick but they're going to have to encourage (bribe) developers and keep pushing the way Microsoft has with Windows Phone if they want to have a prayer... Every day they wait on hardware is a slightly smaller chance of any kind of success.
Could be staking their dwindling future on windows phones.
But if they don't innovate (read port to android and ditch the hardware business) they're doomed.
If they port to Android and ditch the hardware business they're still doomed.
I myself am quite happy with my Blackberry and I'm really curious what they will bring to the table.
I really think they should diversify their hardware, bring some qwerty models, like the Curve, Bold and Torch. But also full touchsreen devices, with small screens to bigger screens. Like 3,2" and 3,7" and 4,3" for example.
I do think they are still interesting for developers. They will have their own platform. But also Qt support, which might bring in a lot of old Nokia developers. They also support Android, allthough apps for BB-Android need to be repackaged.
Well, don't worry about that. We can get you back before you leave. (Dr. Who)
Could be staking their dwindling future on windows phones.
Seriously, I wonder what the prospects for the windows phone are. My starting assumption is that Microsoft knows they need to succeed in the smart phone game and that this would be a good thing to blow their cash hoard on unless they want to stay a PC software company. So I assume they are going to make some company succeed but may have not made up their minds which.
The obvious choice is Nokia's headlong commitment to Windows phones. Clearly a willing partner with the manufacturing, distribution and hardware support capability that knows how to work with every phone company. That's good. The down side is perhaps they are and ARM based smart phone. Can they make the leap to Intel? Early reviews say windows RT (arm) is a total half baked disaster. On the other hand reviews of the XOLO (which is intel android) say that the arm emulation is almost flawless. So there is a possibility they could run windows 8 intel but emulate the legacy ARM drivers and programs.
If they are first to market with the widest distribution of a high power windows 8 then developers will target that devices characteristics. Could be a win. If they try to tough it out on ARM I suspect a big fail.
Then there is samsung who dabbles in windows smart phones. Samsung either needs to fork Android like amazon did or keep a foot in windows or they expose themselves to whims of google. If they fork it, they can dictate control of the OS to the carriers just like Apple does. Empirically apple iphones are great precisely because Verizon or AT&T is not trying to customize it to maximize their revenue stream.
But I think neither android or iphone is so great that Microsoft can't succeed given they already have about 100K of developed Apps. Conversely this is exactly why Blackberry has zero chance. No app base means no customers means no developers.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
It looks like BlackBerry might be set to make the same mistake Palm did when they launched WebOS. Palm completely abandoned a huge "ecosystem" of PalmOS users, software, and developers by not supporting PalmOS software on WebOS. I'm not suggesting that this move was solely responsible for Palm's demise, but it certainly contributed. Sounds like BlackBerry is getting ready to do the same thing with their "Blackberry 10" OS.
"RIM's Future Hangs On Developer Support For 'New BlackBerry'"
I had a "quad band" (?) BlackBerry for years and kinda liked it's "full" keyboard to SMS.
But I've developped for the BlackBerry which you *could* more or less program in Java but it was nonsense. They did definitely alienate the developers. If Java wasn't an option (it is now for Android btw ; ) then they should have made that clearer. It was by far the most buggy JVM of all the phones (and that's not a compliment, some of them were really terrible : but Blackberry's JVM was the buggiest of them all).
And the lock-in (proprietary APIs and whatnots). RIM is going the way so many tech companies went: things are turning fast in this world.
If they wanted to count on developers then they should have taken good care of them. Bad APIs. Bad support. Snobbish attitude.
What goes around comes around and the developers are now getting their revenge.
Goodbye RIM : )
The Blackberry Ecosystem is such an enormous pain to develop for. Just trying to port over an existing Android app is one roadblock after another: the porting / re-signing tools were flaky. You had to use shitty MS Windows and follow weird badly written signing instructions. Developing natively is probably even worse - I hardly got anywhere with that. And this is all before you get to the market posting requirements.
In comparison, the Android development environment "just works". Toss Eclipse on Ubuntu, do a couple add-ins, and you are up and running in an hour or two. Very very low cost to develop an application. Clear instructions on what you need to do to get on the market. Amazon was pretty simple as well.
The banks and government business is the only thing keeping RIM afloat, and that can last a little while, but its a bad business model. RIM deserves to die.
Have that resume ready, RIM employees. You are going to need it soon.
Answer: does RIM currently have an adequate catalog of apps?
I once took an excursion to Reddit, and later HN. Unlimited up/down voting sucks when dealing with a hive-mind.
It's not like Android is making much money either - Google makes $2 per phone, Apple $575.
And with the way that the Android platform has already fragmented, it's going to go the way of Linux on the desktop.
Want to buy an Android phone? Good luck comparing features, and figuring out if your manufacturer will even be offering updates 6 months from now.
All Android did was kill off Apple's other competitors, leaving the top - and all the profits- to Apple. RIM is just one more victim.
Let's call it what it is, Anti-Social Media.
What makes a Playbook a better choice than an Android tablet or an iPad? I know nothing about them.
So I'm making an app, i can chose to develop for iOS.... or the BB10?
Seriously, why would i spent any time and resources on that platform, when I could just target iOS, and take advantage of the app store and the entire ecosystem that doesn't exist for the BB10?
Because everyone else is writing for iOS, and you'd have a lot less competition on the BB10 platform?
So you're suggesting that desktop software developers should develop for Linux instead of Windows? It is hard to overstate the absurdity of that statement.
grape - the GNU free, open source rape
Because everything exist on the iPhone and everything that does not exist get cloned as soon as your app reaches the store. It used to be that you could have an original idea and develop it (fun), now even before you start you see 10 implementations already in the store, that kills the fun right there.
It is still good to develop for the iPhone because of the incredible amount of resources you have. However, that is a harsh and very competitive environment. If you are not coding to become rich or create a software empire, you may want a more "open" (as in you have a chance of being seen on merit without a dedicating half your time marketing) environment.
For existing developer (Android, IOS), all boils down to market opportunity: less competition to grab the market shares early on.
What does "real time kernel" mean?
You are welcome on my lawn.
As a (former) Blackberry developer, I've decided that I will be doing no more development for their platforms. They pissed away any goodwill I had for them by their crappy tools, crappy support and their ridiculous policies. As an example, in order to become a development partner, which is the ONLY way to get real support from them, you have to sign a license that basically gives RIM rights to use any of your source code that you develop for their platform. Or typically, if you tried to discuss a problem on their support forums, they would allow developers to spend weeks or months trying to figure out a problem before stepping in and say, "Oh, ya, we know about this. It's on our internal bug tracking system," and then close the discussion to new posts. This was often for bugs that had been around for several major API versions, or even from the very FIRST API version.
Fighting through the mess seemed like it was worth it when it seemed like everybody in the market for the software I was developing had a Blackberry, but now that it's dropped down to almost zero, you want me to invest my time and money into a brand new platform? No, thanks. At this point, I'm content to see you slip beneath the waves and to try to forget you exist. Goodbye.
You also can't compare android to an iPad - which is why Amazon sells more Kindle tablets than all the other Android makers combined.
In other words, there's the iPad, the Kindle, and "everybody else", which explains why manufacturers are abandoning the tablet market as unprofitable. Only the iPad can command iPad prices from the masses ... because everything else really is a crappy, poorly-supported wanna-be knock-off.
But back on-topic - there is no way in H*** that RIM is going to survive - not by switching to Android, and not by sticking with QNS and hoping that they get any developer traction. The market has spoken.
Let's call it what it is, Anti-Social Media.
but if their marketshare exceeds Windows Phone in a reasonable time frame, I will piss my pants laughing. I guess Nokia shareholders will piss their pants for other reasons however.
The BoM of an iPhone is $180. Apple's margins on the device are massive. That's true for all manufacturers that sell their phones at retail.
which explains why manufacturers are abandoning the tablet market as unprofitable.
Who exactly is leaving the tablet market? All companies that have made Android tablets so far have announced new models.
Only the iPad can command iPad prices from the masses ... because everything else really is a crappy, poorly-supported wanna-be knock-off.
Did you even see Asus Transformer?
A lot of the complaints are from miscreants/malcontents.
So all reviews are positive, so long as you exclude those users who aren't happy?
Why would I write a tablet app for enterprise customers? Where's the market I'm going to get money from? And even if it's there, would I get more money from that over writing, say, a decent game for iOS?
RIM is so dead that posting on this story isn't worth anyone's time.
How much did HP lose on their touchpad because of the "race to the bottom" for all non-iPad tablets? A billion is still a lot of money.
Dell abanoned their "Streak" Android tablet, and is now concentrating on Windows tablets.
Is the Transformer nice? Sure - but the sales numbers tell a different story - people who look at it still end up buying an iPad instead. If they need a real keypad plus portability, they buy a laptop
Let's call it what it is, Anti-Social Media.
Dell abanoned their "Streak" Android tablet, and is now concentrating on Windows tablets.
Anyone else? Because one manufacturer out of a dozen is not exactly consistent with the bleak picture that you've pained in your original post, where it sounded like everyone, or at least most companies, are leaving the market. But they don't, because even the relatively small slice they end up with after Apple takes away theirs, is still large enough to turn a decent profit.
Is the Transformer nice? Sure - but the sales numbers tell a different story - people who look at it still end up buying an iPad instead.
That does not follow. Most people who buy iPad, don't even look at anything else before doing that.
If they need a real keypad plus portability, they buy a laptop
You miss the point of Transformer. I need a laptop, but I also need a tablet - because the two are good at different things. If I can make both into one device such that I don't need to lug around two, all the better.
. My starting assumption is that Microsoft knows they need to succeed in the smart phone game and that this would be a good thing to blow their cash hoard on unless they want to stay a PC software company. So I assume they are going to make some company succeed but may have not made up their minds which.
You are assuming wrong. The board discussed this something like about 18mo back. While they are willing to lose a little on this market they are not going to focus on this market as a core strategic direction at this time. They don't see earning the money back from this market, hardware is expensive driven by expensive parts, the carriers have enormous power and the software needs are light. Microsoft is going to continue to bring out new Windows mobile and have a division to try and keep a foot in the door if they can and of course if the situation were to change drastically...
When that "one manufacturer" (two actually - both Dell and HP) are the #1 and #2 computer vendors in the world, it means a LOT.
The market is Apple iPad at the high end, Amazon Kindle at the low end, and everyone else trying to compete for the scraps that are left, which basically means the price pressure is such that they will never be able to "make it up in volume."
Google screwed up. They should have bought Motorola before releasing Android, and made it exclusively for Motorola. You'd have Googlerola Smartphones and tablets, and no issues with hardware compatibility.
Android is about to get a serious whack in the head from a completely unexpected direction - Valve. Valve is working on a full stack - linux+steam. Expect to see it on TVs (so forget the already-dead UbuntuTV), tablets, and handhelds.
They already have the content people want, a working app store, complete with drm that the studios will go along with for streaming movies, etc. - imagine no longer needing a game console to play games, stream netflix (or bypass netflix and/or hulu completely), surf the net, etc. People will buy that, in various form factors.
Manufacturers, given a choice between free Android, or Free Steam + a cut of revenues, will drop Android.
Let's call it what it is, Anti-Social Media.
Lots of enterprises are moving towards tablets. They are becoming standard in medicine. Salesforces and starting to use them because of instant on features. They are moving heavily towards retail.
And enterprise customers don't use the app store they use an enterprise phone management system to distribute apps.
The problem with Linux desktop software was that the people drawn to the Linux desktop didn't want to buy applications. There were companies that made money on the Mac back when it has 2-5% marketshare.
All fine and good. No one is suggesting that you can't make money on Linux or the Mac. I am not even suggesting that people won't make money coding for BB10. Hell, I will go as far as to say that people that specifically target deficiencies in BB10 may do well.
My reply was specifically about the idea that you should target low adoption platforms before high adoption ones "because there is less competition". It is nonsense, and that is what I wanted to illustrate with my analogy.
grape - the GNU free, open source rape
n/t
I understand that, and I think the analogy is flawed. Less competition, especially for a mediocre product can be critical in terms of sales. A market 50x as large with 50x as much competition will on average be worse to enter into with a new product because by random chance alone you'll have competitors who have a substantially better product already present. Microsoft office basically sucks the oxygen out of the office suite for windows even though the windows market is massive. That's why OpenOffice's in the 1990s (then called StarOffice) did in fact thrive as a commercial offering for Linux and Sun where there was no comparable office suite while far better and far better funded suites for the Windows platform like Lotus SmartSuite were dying.
Open source QNX. Its their only hope.
A man spends the first half of his life accumulating stuff, the second trying to get rid of it all.
> What is the distinguishing feature? Unlike LG, HTC or Samsung, RIM is a North American company, I would still prefer RIM and I want RIM to develop their own OS. Android and Apple-iOS have lots of drawbacks and problems, as a consumer I want more options.
If that's your criteria (being North American), then you can by Mot as well. It's owned by Google. If enough people thought like you, Palm would have been a success.
Incidentally, how do you define 'North American' (or for that matter American)? Samsung, HTC and LG have Android on their phones, not some native Korean or Chinese OS. Or conversely, those phones are manufactured in China, but so for that matter is Mot, Nokia, Sony-Ericsson and others. In fact, using this criteria, one can question whether Samsung and LG are Korean any longer, or Sony is Japanese any longer, or Nokia is European any longer. Or does RIM manufacture in Canada itself?
I couldn't agree more. I even stated as much.
If you are targeting a market that is very crowded on one platform and very open on another much smaller platform then it MAY be better to target the smaller one. Your office example is an excellent example of this.
A second scenario where the smaller platform may be better is for highly skewed demographics or usage patterns. For instance if I were developing a LOB app BB7 may very well be the best place to start. It would be worth investigating at the very least.
My issue is not with that fact that there are edge cases where the smaller platform can win. It is with the idea, that in general, you should start with the smaller, in this case smallest, platform. (smallest because BB10 hasn't been released yet)
"Because everyone is writing for iOS, and you'd have a lot less competition on the BB10 platform"
grape - the GNU free, open source rape
If you develop an enterprise app that is useful, you could probably charge a lot more for it.
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
" You'll get the Premium Dollars." - and probably all the andriod targeted viruses etc.
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
I just read the headline and thought "RIM is so fucked." I read "There's very little or no compatibility between the old and new operating systems. Existing apps can't be carried forward to QNX and BB 10." and thought "they're not developing now, why are they going to bother?" I'm hoping RIM will last until I've actually finished paying for my BlackBerry 9300 ...
http://rocknerd.co.uk
Yep. Specifically, iPad. There's iPad and then there's, er, nothing else.
http://rocknerd.co.uk
I decided I wanted an Asus Transformer Prime.
It was a pain in the ass to get one. I wound up getting the tablet from Office Depot and the keyboard from Best Buy. And it took a month to get the tablet, and another week for the keyboard.
I might believe poor sales figures if the damned thing wasn't still selling out all over the place. Obviously, Asus is selling them as fast as they make them.
Well yeah. At this poing Apple has both a software and a hardware advantage. The point was that if RIM were able to create a hardware advantage then it would still be possible....
Also, the 2,000 pre-orders (included in the 82,000 figure) were cancelled by Amazon.
A friend asked me what tablets to look at, and I suggested the Transformer, as well as looking at the iPad and laptops. She ended up buyting an iPad and a laptop because, no matter how you put it, tablets suck for certain tasks, even "transformers".
Simply put, if you price it like an iPad, people will buy the "real McCoy", and opt for the iPad. That relegates Android to the bottom of the market. It's like trying to sell a linux desktop computer - except that you can't even GIVE the OS away because it's too fragmented and unstable for retailers to support, or for developers to target with proprietary software that will make them money.
There's a reason why everyone ends up distro-hopping. Even good distros "go bad" over time - witness the buggy KDE4.0 that almost killed OpenSuse, and their 12x update that ate user emails, slackware claiming "we're not dead yet" when in fact their main update repo has been down for a year, Mandrake/Mandriva one step away from a second bankruptcy, Canonical's failures to deliver a promised tablet for two years now - and still not making a profit ....
Simply put, end users continue to believe - rightly - that they are better off with creaky old XP than with any linux distro. Same with tablets - they would rather pay Apple for something that works and gets updates than buy a potential orphan.
Let's call it what it is, Anti-Social Media.
In other words, there's the iPad, the Kindle, and "everybody else"
And just to throw this in there, I think we've seen this is the standard thing in technology. For years, in the desktop OS market, there's been "Microsoft, Apple, and everyone else." In servers, there's been "Microsoft, Linux, and everyone else." In mobile phones, for a while there was "Palm, Blackberry, and everyone else," and then it was becoming "Blackberry, Windows, and everyone else," before jumping to "Apple, Android, and everyone else."
I think that the masses only have enough room in their brains to keep track of 2 technology alternatives at the same time.
Maybe. But true nonetheless.
"I'd horsewhip you if I had a horse." -- Groucho Marx
Hoping for develop support to save them? Really? They should bet the farm on world peace...it has a better chance of happening.
IMHO, the Microsoft/Windows brand pretty much ensures no one wants a windows phone. Its about as cool as MS Word. ie. not very. In fact, i think this is why microsoft pretty much universally struggles with new markets.
Blackberry, on the other hand still has some "street cred" and if RIM can make a polished/quality product and get enough developers/apps on board (big IFs!) then they might still have a chance of retaining some market share.
Having a market with 10000000 android apps is highly overrated (in my opinion) since 99.999% of them are throwaway garbage. Instead they need solid core 3rd party apps, and right now they are lacking in that area. Where are Netflix, Kindle reader, IMDB etc (Ok, this is my bias of what a core app is, but i get the impression they are lacking across the board). If these companies don't want to port to BB10, then they should pay them enough so they do! Yeah, it'll cost a lot, but whats the alternative?
RIM are making a push to get developers to port apps (from android/iphone) and this seems, in principle, like a good strategy. MS on the other hand, have made some very dubious decisions in regard to development tools/languages that pretty much force (iphone, android) developers to rewrite entire applications. This is doing them no favors (other than cutting down on shovelware). Sorry MS, my apps use C++ and that works just fine on iphone, android, and blackberry - i'm not even considering porting hundreds of thousands of lines of code to C#, and i doubt i'm alone in having that viewpoint.