Gimp 2.8 Finally Released

Cryophallion writes "After many years of development, GIMP 2.8 is finally released. Among its features: the oft-desired single-window mode, layer groups, and many other massive improvements, including some of the GIMP UI team's work. This might be the release that helps make The GIMP a much more user friendly experience for newcomers, and has features that are rivaling those of certain exceptionally expensive commercial programs. While the porting of GEGL is still ongoing (and recently reported to have made massive advances made), this is a major step forward for one of the premier open source projects." Here are the official release notes.

Comments

Gimp still limping after all these years...

[Anonymous Coward]

...with an interface worse than Penn & Teller's driving game.

Re:Gimp still limping after all these years...

[schroedingers_hat]

I find having it list slowly to the left is actually quite good for drawing curves once you get used to it.

Re:Gimp still limping after all these years...

[Smauler]

Talking crap about the GIMP and its UI is very easy. What's far more difficult is designing that UI, programming the features, and getting it into a coherent program.

Seriously, most of the the posts here are talking about how bad it is, from people who probably wouldn't know how to use it or its brethren for anything more than applying an effect to a photo.

Without GIMP, you'd be looking at completely inferior open source projects for image manipulation. As it is, it still leaves a little to be desired, but it's close enough for comparison.

Maaaaaan...

[Anonymous Coward]

The Gimp Users website is a design trainwreck.

Re:Maaaaaan...

[DeathToBill]

Well, I think the prominent headline, "GIMP on Linux - Compile it yourself!" tells you the sort of people who designed it.

Re:Maaaaaan...

[TheNextCorner]

The Add under the article leads to a site wrapping Gimp with Crapware, toolbars and other installers. here is a screenshot of the ad, don't download it from Download-nation.com!

Re:Maaaaaan...

[jellomizer]

Your assessment isn't broad enough.
The Gimp <strike>Users website</strike> is a design trainwreck.

Re:Maaaaaan...

[miknix]

GIMP on Linux - Compile it yourself!

I use Gentoo you insensitive clod!

The Name

[Anonymous Coward]

They really ought to consider re-naming it. Try installing it in - say - a junior high school some time. See how that goes over.

Re:The Name

[Zontar The Mindless]

They really ought to consider re-naming it. Try installing it in - say - a junior high school some time. See how that goes over.

They can name it "Love Child Of roman_mir And APK" for all I care. I'm just glad to see they grew a brain cell and adopted single-window mode. Y'know, for human users.

Re:The Name

[crazyjj]

I actually used to teach a class where I wanted to use it. But the name stopped me. A real shame. Wish someone would fork it with a name that isn't so childish and offensive. They can improve it all they like, but no one is ever going to take it seriously with that name.

Re:The Name

[Lord Lode]

Warning: non native English speaker here.

I didn't know gimp was an offensive word. Do children recognize it as offensive? Is it because it sounds like "chimp"? Are monkeys offensive?

Re:The Name

[Desler]

'Gimp' is a perjorative for disabled people.

Re:The Name

[Atzanteol]

It's an offensive slang term for handicapped people. And it speaks volumes about the marketing ability of geeks.

Re:The Name

[CanHasDIY]

Warning: non native English speaker here.

I didn't know gimp was an offensive word. Do children recognize it as offensive? Is it because it sounds like "chimp"? Are monkeys offensive?

Children? Nah, the only reason they think the word might be offensive is because of the way idiotic, childish adults react to it.

Re:The Name

[schroedingers_hat]

The multi window paradigm is popular among all the major operating systems in use on Vloxtar, don't be so small minded.

Re:The Name

[Nadir]

Just too bad there is no real Linux equivalent for it.

You stand corrected sir: http://pinta-project.com/

Re:The Name

[Dishevel]

GNU
Image
Manipulation
Program

It is only offensive to those who feel a deep seated need to be offended.
Unfortunately there are a lot of people who just can not spend a whole day without being "Deeply Offended" by something.

Re:The Name

[Dishevel]

Retard is just short for Retarded.
It derogatory status is created by those who want to be degraded.

Re:The Name

[djlemma]

Did you ever use it in the pre-1.0 days, when there wasn't yet support for layers? You had to open each "layer" entity as a separate file in a separate window, and then it would let you combine/multiply/divide/etc between multiple files to come up with a composite. Now, THAT was a lot of windows to keep track of.

Re:The Name

[DrData99]

I tell people that it is a self referential acronym:
GIMP
Is
Most of
Photoshop

Re:The Name

[DeathToBill]

I'm a native English speaker, living in England. I've never heard 'gimp' used to mean anything other than the software.

Must be an American thing.

Re:The Name

[jockm]

Considering your signature, I fear this is going to fall on deaf ears. You have a very high threshold for offense, and believe everyone should too. I suspect this because you are willing to equate a piece of computer hardware to criminal sodomy out in public, but please correct me if I am wrong.

But here's the thing, if you are a disabled person then Gimp is just like "the N word", and insult hurled at you in anger and derision. It is also a word you reserve the right to yourself. You don't have to like it, you don't have to agree, but you do have to accept that, because that is the reality out in the world — at least with enough people to matter.

And I can see why you think your explanation, giving the name in full, is cogent. But here's the thing: If the default were to say "The GNU Image Manipulation Program" and some people shortened it to "GIMP" then that would be one thing. Unfortunately that isn't the case. The devs of the program called it GIMP from the beginning, and took a very long time to accept that anyone could be offended by that. And now it is a line in the sand to them, one they will not cross.

The name is a problem. It stops people using it, it stops schools teaching it, it hurts the app.

Re:The Name

[Atzanteol]

It's only offensive to people who are crippled, know somebody who is crippled, feel the need to not offend people who are crippled, or who work in a professional business and don't want to potentially offend customers/employees/etc. who may be crippled, etc.

In other words, it speaks volumes about the marketing ability of geeks. Just as I said. If I created the worlds greatest network monitoring system and named it "Portable Enterprise Network Information System" it wouldn't matter. Nobody is going to install PENIS in a professional environment.

GIMP is a stupid name. You may not care. I may not care. It's still a stupid name.

Re:The Name

[optimus2861]

As an engineer I have to fight the tendency to assign acronyms to things that don't need them, or even discard/alter acronyms that come out "wrong". GIMP does not get off the hook for having a silly name because it's an acronym. In fact the full name of the program looks like it was chosen to create the acronym - which is doubly silly.

Bemoan it all you want, but GIMP is a stupid name and it ought to change if it wants to be taken seriously.

Re:The Name

[nine-times]

Also, ever since Pulp Fiction, the word "gimp" has had a pop-culture meaning of a male sex slave or sexual submissive. So... it's really not a word you want to toss around in a professional environement.

Re:The Name

[jockm]

Ah those glory days when we could just toss around racial slurs, and insulting terms about women, the disabled, and the mentally handicapped; and we didn't have to worry because we were white men... is that what you were talking about.

Political Correctness might be a bad idea, and certainly one that can go to far; but let us not confuse PC for not insulting huge swaths of people for your entertainment. It was never a good idea.

Deal.

Re:The Name

[L4t3r4lu5]

Gimp = Perjorative term for a disabled person.
Gimp = Sex slave.

You're deliberately missing the point. It's not about offending someone's sensibilities, it's about the bad connotations of the word. Would it hurt so much to rename it "GNU Licensed Image Development Environment" or similar? Then I might be able to convince the boss to actually consider it as an alternative to MSPaint.

Re:The Name

[TigerTime]

It doesn't matter if the acronym works. It's an offensive word. If CHINK, HONKEY, WETBACK, or NIGGER were legitimate acronyms would you say they're a good idea for an app's name?

Re:The Name

[clickety6]

GNU
Image
Manipulation
Program

It is only offensive to those who feel a deep seated need to be offended.

Great, if no-one should be offended by an insulting acronym then there should be no objections if we replace it with the name " New Integrated GNU Graphics Editing Resource" for instance..

Re:The Name

[chemicaldave]

It's still not marketable. There's a reason Amazon sells the Kindle and not The Amazon Reading Device.

Re:The Name

[19thNervousBreakdown]

Cripple isn't nice because of what it describes. Every single word we ever use to describe the condition will, over time, become a pejorative.

The concept of calling it "developmentally disabled" or whatever seems like a good idea though. It's such a stupid term that it has a high probability of replaced by something else before it gets the chance to be offensive. Although ... it's already starting to be used sarcastically. Give it a decade or so, it'll have a shortened version that's exclusively offensive, and once that becomes well-known it's only a matter of time before the long version becomes offensive too due to its connotation with the shortened form. The best part is, the euphemism treadmill has been going on for the entirety of recorded history, so there's basically no chance it's not just human nature, so we'll never get to stop! Yay!

Re:The Name

[Dishevel]

The name was not a problem.
First came the name. Then came the problem.
Also.
The "N" word is fucking stupid. If someone is being offensive and says the word "Nigger" then they are an easy to spot dumb fuck.
Blacks can use the word nigger all they want. I will be modded down because I have used the word twice.
I did not use it offensively. The word itself is not offensive because blacks can say it all they want.
That means that is is only offensive because I am not black.
That is racism. That to me is offensive.
I am not often offended, but people who corrupt language to change thinking are in my opinion evil and highly offensive.

Re:The Name

[IcyHando'Death]

Gimp is an offensive term when used to refer to someone who is lame or handicapped. It may also evoke "the Gimp" from Pulp Fiction in some people's minds. However, it has other meanings, which are perfectly acceptable in polite conversation. Furthermore, it is a refreshingly straightforward, unforced, (indirectly) recursive acronym.

Personally, I am fine with the name and I picture the cute little whatever-it-is logo when I hear it, if I picture anything at all.

Re:The Name

[19thNervousBreakdown]

up in arms

I got fuckin no arms, asshole!

Re:The Name

[demonbug]

We should call it

New

Internet

Graphics

Generator

Editor &

Retoucher

that way no one who doesn't feel a deep seated need to be offended will object

Yeah, but then it will just come in at #1 on every list of "Programs That Annoy You".

Re:The Name

[kiwimate]

Your stubborn refusal to consider someone else's feelings, combined with your signature, makes me think you have a remarkable lack of sensitivity, empathy, and social awareness. As such, you may not get much out of this post.

Sometimes one has to pick one's battles. You can choose to fight on the naming of a piece of software based on your assertion that it's only offensive to people who want to be offended. Alternatively, you can choose to accept that whether you agree with the sentiment or think it's foolish, nonetheless the term is offensive and/or silly and/or nebulous to potential users. The bigger issue could be that you want to spread the word about free and open source software and this is a great example of something that has come out of the community and matured, but which potentially is being held back by its name.

I'm not a FOSS evangelist, but if I were I'd think it was a valid concern and wonder if I could give up the battle ("I wanna keep the name GIMP!") so that I have a better shot at winning the war. (And I really dislike using that terminology, by the way, because it should be about choice and giving people something that's better, not a fight against the enemy.)

Look, it comes down to this. Like it or not, the name is a problem for more than a handful of people. Do you really want that to be the impediment that stops one of the best examples of free and open source software from being more widely adopted? Is it really that important to you? Where do your priorities lie?

(And no-one is going to call it "GNU Image Manipulation Program". One syllable versus eleven. Easy choice.)

Re:The Name

[doodlebumm]

gimp Noun: 1. Twisted silk or cotton with cord or wire running through it, used chiefly in upholstery. 2. offensive. A physically handicapped or lame person.

Re:The Name

[Dishevel]

The "Bigger issue" is not in my opinion FOSS.
The bigger issue is PC.
Political Correctness of speech is what offends me.

Re:The Name

[nine-times]

It's only offensive to people who are crippled

Er... I think if you actually want to avoid offending crippled people, you should probably stop calling them "crippled". That word is also considered pretty politically incorrect. Shoot, these days, I think even "disabled" is considered offensive in some circles. It's supposed to be... maybe "differently abled"? I can't keep track.

Re:The Name

[bashibazouk]

It used to have that connotation. Then the movie Pulp Fiction came out. Now Gimp is associated with leather bound masochistic homosexuals...

Re:The Name

[Lumpy]

If their logo was a ball gag, I think a Lot more people would use it.

Re:The Name

[Atzanteol]

Your stubborn refusal to consider someone else's feelings, combined with your signature, makes me think you have a remarkable lack of sensitivity, empathy, and social awareness. As such, you may not get much out of this post.

I think you pretty much nailed it right there. He's way too out of touch with society to notice or care. He may as well run for public office at this point.

Re:The Name

[shiftless]

What, that geeks don't value marketing?

No, that 99% of geeks are so clueless about marketing that they don't even understand why it's desirable.

This isn't a business that's seeking to conquer the world and "gain market share", it's an open source project where people want to create a tool for others to use.

If they want others to use it........then change the fucking name. How difficult is this concept, really?

It's been extraordinarily successful in that regard.

No, it's been somewhat successful. It could have been and could still be extraordinarily successful, were the developers not clueless twits.

If some people can't get past a name just to use a product, then why is that the developers problem and not the people who choose to not use a product for childish reasons?

It's the developer's problem because the developers will go down in history as clueless twits who provided a marginally useful tool, rather than smart folks who genuinely "got it", understood their user base, and provided a seriously useful tool for them.

I mean, as another poster suggested, why not call it NIGGER? I'm sure there'll be leagues of those "childish" people flocking to it, right?

A good mechanic when shopping for used cars, can tell the difference between a car maintained by a fucking moron, and one by a person with half a clue. Guess which car he will gravitate towards purchasing?

A materials scientist who is a plastics expert isn't going to buy some cheap ass garbage plastic basket made out a material which he knows won't last 6 weeks; he's going to buy the one next to it that costs a dollar or ten dollars more. It's not even that the cheap one will break; it's the *knowledge* of it being a cheap piece of shit that would haunt him in his sleep if he knowingly bought such garbage.

So given all the above logical, reasonable statements, why the fuck would you assume that an artist is any different? Why would a person who is finely attuned to artwork and design sense gravitate towards a half assed graphics program so moronically designed that the very name gives it away?

I think it's a stupid name, but I also think if someone is that hyper-sensitive to a name, then perhaps they should fork over a few hundred bucks for photo shop so they won't be offended. I kind of like the idea that being hyper-sensitive to things costs people money.

No--being hypersensitive to things makes people money.....a concept the "GIMP" developers might have half a hope of understanding, were they actually artists rather than your average geeks with zero artistic sense. It is precisely because the GIMP geeks aren't anything like their ideal user base (you know....artists) that their tool is nowhere near as good and as popular as it could be.

Re:The Name

[Kozz]

The name was not a problem.
First came the name. Then came the problem.
Also.
The "N" word is fucking stupid. If someone is being offensive and says the word "Nigger" then they are an easy to spot dumb fuck.
Blacks can use the word nigger all they want. I will be modded down because I have used the word twice.
I did not use it offensively. The word itself is not offensive because blacks can say it all they want.
That means that is is only offensive because I am not black.
That is racism. That to me is offensive.
I am not often offended, but people who corrupt language to change thinking are in my opinion evil and highly offensive.

A couple of points for you to consider...

• If you think that all Black Americans feel the same way about the word "nigger", you're sorely mistaken.
• The speaker doesn't get to decide whether his words are offensive. That's up to the listeners. If it's well known that a word is deemed by many to be offensive, the speaker ought to at least attempt to be respectful of that, even if he doesn't agree. To do otherwise seems anti-social, antagonistic, a jerk... pick one.
• Of all the things in this world worth of the word "evil", I'm pretty sure you're stretching the definition.

As for the naming of GIMP and whether it should be changed... would it be such a big deal? We've watched many projects go through forks and renames and changes of ownership. StarOffice, OpenOffice.org, LibreOffice. Phoenix, Firebird, Firefox. I think we'd get along just fine with a name change.

To be obstinate on this topic is short-sighted if we (as a community) would like to see this product succeed at an ever-growing rate. If the name is holding it back from adoption or acceptance to any measurable degree, isn't it a good thing to seek improved marketing?

Re:The Name

[BootysnapChristAlive]

I agree. Some people are needlessly oversensitive. It would be a smart business decisions to avoid defending them. But I never really meant otherwise.

It's just that I can't believe people honestly get offended by things that aren't even intended to offend to begin with. They don't even care about context or meaning, just strings of letters.

Re:The Name

[Jahava]

I tell people that it is a self referential acronym: GIMP Is Most of Photoshop

Well, in that case they should rename it to something more friendly like PIMP.

Re:The Name

[jockm]

Let's take one last run at this: Do you believe context ever matters in language or word choice? Are there words you should not expose children to until a certain age? Is the way you talk to your lover in the bedroom the same as how you address your boss? If the CEO of where you worked disabled, would you call him a gimp to his face?

If you believe that language has context, or If the answer to any of those (or questions like them) above was "no", then why is it appropriate to name an image editing program with a word that is — in this day and age — primarily used to insult, demean, and/or hurt?

Re:The Name

[ifrag]

boss to actually consider it as an alternative to MSPaint

Of course after using GIMP for a minute, the (almost guaranteed) reaction is going to be "fuck this, MSPaint will do..."

I've started recommending Paint.NET for people who need a minimal image editor.

Re:The Name

[Rick17JJ]

Several years ago, a husband once brought his handicapped wife to a Linux users group meeting. Another women in the group briefly said something about the GIMP. The handicapped older woman than angrily demanded that her husband take her home at once. She incorrectly thought the other younger woman had disparagingly referred to her as being a gimp.

When I was in high school, back in the late 1960s and early 1970s, a couple of guys I knew used the word gimp as slang for a handicapped person. I have not heard the word used since then.

For those who have not heard the word gimp before, here is a link to a short article that uses the word several times:

http://www.scottsandsalive.com/gimp-fraud/

Re:The Name

[ifiwereasculptor]

If people fail to take seriously one a major expoent of free software solely because of an acronym that can be read as a socially stigmatized word, then I feel they don't deserve to use it in the first place. I mean, by all means, feel free to protect the children against the offensive power of the GIMP. But why stop there? Might as well censor biology classes, lest they find out about the existence of animals with names such as cock, ass, beaver, crab, peacock and sperm whale. (This was a joke, at first, but then I realized that no one calls a female dog a bitch anymore, so that sort of social censorship of animal nomenclature is not exactly unprecedented.)

Re:The Name

[Artifakt]

Count me as one of those who feels a "deep seated need to be offended". I have an autistic nephew who has been called a gimp by various ignorant fools in the past, and hell yes, I'm offended. You have offended me, by being a total jerk. You should be ashamed of yourself, but on slashdot, vile and abusive speech evidently gets you modded plus five.
            Silly me, I thought abusing people who cannot help their disability was the sign of a person with a crushing inferiority complex, desperately trying to elevate themselves by attacking those they percieve as even weaker, and doomed to eventually fail. But Slashdot calls that insightful.
            You have a problem, a personality problem as large as alchoholism or heroin abuse, and the four people who gave you mod points are enabling that problem, encouraging you to go farther down a road that leads eventually to your own distruction. You can realize that it is the very worst aspect of your own nature that attempts to justify abusing some of the most helpless of our society, or not, but you probably consider those who modded you up as friends so you will have less incentive to grow up and learn to give a damn about other people. That's a pity.

Re:The Name

[Windwraith]

Actually, one of the splash screens of the 2.7.x branch did actually put the GIMP mascot into a gimp suit.
Which bothers me, because they are aware of the connotations but still adhering to it like kids who think they are funny.

Re:The Name

[sdnoob]

well i tell people the "G" is silent.. so it's just "IMP"

Re:The Name

[Dishevel]

If someone is calling your nephew "gimp" then they are being offensive.
If some hick walk up to a black man and says "outta my way nigger", then he is being offensive.
GIMP as the name of a program that has nothing to do with disabilities is not offensive.
Nigger when used by a black comedian is not offensive.

Let me go slowly here.
Words are not in and of themselves offensive. People can be. People who are being offensive use words.

If I were to say that "Your nephew is a strange looking person with limited intelligence and no hope of being a full human being."
That would be highly offensive and a horrible thing to say to someone.
What word there is at fault? Which of those words are "offensive"?

Words are not and never have been the problem. As long as we try to fix the words we will never fix the problem.

Be offended all you want about words that in and of themselves are not offensive.

Re:The Name

[mcgrew]

it speaks volumes about the marketing ability of geeks.

Not marketing ability, but the wish to market in the first place. GIMP isn't a commercial product, you know. Why does something that's non-commercial need marketing?

It's the same thing with "Linux market share". Who cares? Why care, unless you're Mark Shuttleworth or somebody.

Actually, that puzzles me with all marketing. McDonald's "Over ten bajillion sold"... why should I care how many other people are buying a damned hamburger? Why should I care how many of my make and model of car is sold as long as mine runs well?

See, there's the point. It's not marketing ability, it's simply not giving a fuck about popularity. I think Billy Joel must be a nerd:

What's the matter with the car I'm drivin'?
Can't you tell that it's out of style?
Should I get a set of white wall tires?
Are you gonee run the miracle mile?

Have you heard about the new fashion, honey?
All you need are looks and a whole lot of money.
Hot punk, cool funk, even if it's old junk
It's still rock and roll to me.

Re:The Name

[actiondan]

>That acronym would not be offensive if used by a black person.

You keep saying that. Why is it surprising to you? The same is true for words used towards all kinds of groups.

I don't think it is words themselves that are offensive but the intent behind them. Obviously as we are not all mind readers, people have to take a guess at intent based on the words used, the tone and, yes, the person doing the talking. When a member of a particular group uses a potentially offensive term for their own group, it is usually pretty clear that they do not intend to offend. When someone outside the group does it, it is not so clear.

As well as racial groups, this applies to all kinds of groups like gays, jews, ginger haired people, nerds, people from specific cities/countries/regions.

People can sometimes be over sensitive (I have certainly come across people who look for opportunities to be offended) but if you know a word will be considered offensive when you use it, why not choose a different word, assuming you don't intend to offend?

Re:The Name

[actiondan]

Quite right.

Aside from any offensive connotations, which of these names clearly fails at being clear about what it does?

Photoshop
Paint
GIMP

Re:The Name

[ColdWetDog]

I've never worked there, but I suspect that making software naming decisions after a night of smoking weed and watching Pulp Fiction is probably not the kind of thing they do over at Adobe.

No, marketing seems to go to work after a week long bender on ketamine, Red Bull and Everclear. That is the only way I can square their upgrade / crossgrade strategies and their predilection for putting customer service centers in Non English speaking countries.

Re:The Name

[ColdWetDog]

If their logo was a ball gag, I think a Lot more people would use it.

You're hanging out with the wrong crowd again...

Re:The Name

[CSMoran]

If they chose a word that had only offensive meanings then I could see people being offended by it, but the word Gimp is only offensive in some contexts.

Sure, because an ass can also mean a donkey...

Re:The Name

[s73v3r]

It's not based solely on the color of the speaker. It's also based on the history of that word. You cannot deny that the word nigger has a very, very negative connotation, especially when coming from a white person to a black person.

Honestly, you're starting to sound like one of those jackasses who likes being offensive purely for the sake of being offensive.

Re:The Name

[NotBorg]

One could argue the same for Git... but it's used in professional environments all the time despite it being "unparliamentary language."

Stop fussing about one definition of the word. You're just like the asshats that want to preserve the purity of the word "hacker."

Re:The Name

[onkelonkel]

As you say, euphemisms get less acceptable over time. They had a marvelous example on the TV the other day. A local teacher showed a letter she had just received from the school board advising them to not use the words "retarded" or "mentally retarded" but instead they should use "cognitive impairment". She also had an identical letter from 25 years ago saying to not use the words "simple" or feeble minded" and instead they should use "mentally retarded".

Re:The Name

[Hatta]

You can choose to fight on the naming of a piece of software based on your assertion that it's only offensive to people who want to be offended

Offense is always a choice on the part of the offended. Maybe they should pick their battles.

Do you really want that to be the impediment that stops one of the best examples of free and open source software from being more widely adopted? Is it really that important to you? Where do your priorities lie?

As long as the software is good, it doesn't matter. Those who choose not to use it based on the name are missing out. The developers lose nothing if they don't use it.

If it was really such a big deal, why hasn't GIMP forked yet? Just do with GIMP what Debian has done with Iceweasel and you're good to go. The fact that this hasn't happened yet indicates that people aren't really serious about their objection to the name.

Re:The Name

[Atzanteol]

You may pretend words don't have a connotation. But you're wrong.

Re:The Name

[serviscope_minor]

Your comment does not make sense.

Sure it does. On quality operating systems with well designed windowing systems, there is a program called a "window manager" whose job it is to decorate and arrange application windows as the user sees fit.

Well behaved applications would bring up lots of independent windows since they understood that the user knows best and has chosen a windows manager to suit.

Then came a raft of awful window managers designed to emulate popular but less well designed operating systems. Along with that came lots of whining about the GIMP since it wasn't so easy to use if the user chose a window manager whic was incapable of managing windows in a sane way.

To stem the flow of bitter griping, the GIMP developers ended up having to combine all the windows together into one big window, and then provide user interface elements to allow users to manipulate these subwindows. This stops the poor quality window managers from making a hash of things.

In other words, the GIMP has now taken over the role of the window manager.

Re:The Name

[serviscope_minor]

Huh? I was saying exactly the opposite, IMNSHO.

No, the GIMP used to rely on windos managers to, well, manage all the tool windows. Now it has had to reimplement all that window manager functionality and manage all the tools etc in one large window because users kept consistently selecting very bad window managers and then whining that the gimp was at fault, not the window managers.

Re:The Name

[G3ckoG33k]

Did you ever use anything on Windows before Gimp came out. There was just one blue window, and damn hard to edit.

Re:The Name

[G3ckoG33k]

"leather bound masochistic homosexuals"

Hmm... Where is the pejorative?

Re:The Name

[Barefoot Monkey]

I agree. Now please excuse me while I go play with my Wii.

Re:The Name

[eldorel]

the only reason they think the word might be offensive is because of the way idiotic, childish adults react to it.

This may be true, but it can still cause issues for people.

At a company I worked at the legal team vetoed using this software (despite all of the design team offering to use it to save the company money).

Why did legal say no? The name could "be construed as a sign of a negative work environment for those who may be physically disable or handicapped".
In plain english, the name could be used as lawsuit bait.

So the gimp team can either change the name, or accept that the entire business world will never be willing to pay for support for this software.

Which is really sad, because they could easily be making a hefty profit from training and support for businesses. If the name wasn't a legal liability.

Re:The Name

[shutdown -p now]

The "leather" part. Do you have any idea how many poor animals are murdered in a very cruel way to make one gimp suit?!

Re:The Name

[fahrbot-bot]

'Gimp' is a pejorative for disabled people.

Perhaps, but GIMP is a *acronym* for "GNU Image Manipulation Program" - grow up people.

Re:The Name

[crazyjj]

So the gimp team can either change the name, or accept that the entire business world will never be willing to pay for support for this software.

Not only the business world, but also in the education world, the public sector, and pretty much anywhere else where the software could be seen in public.

Re:The Name

[Anonymous Coward]

Make it GNU Imp instead.

Re:The Name

[Atzanteol]

We all market all the time. You, me, everyone. It's not just about flashy ads and lying to people. It's about convincing others that you, your product, your is of worth. If you can't do this you will fail at life. Some people are better at this than others. From the replies I've gotten - I'd say my point stands.

Re:The Name

[mcgrew]

Blacks can use the word nigger all they want.

Ever notice that it's only young, punk-ass "gangsta" blacks (like the rappers and their listeners) that use that word? Their aim is to offend the grownups.

A black friend of mine when I was in the Air Force explained it to me. It comes from the days of slavery: "nigger" meant "slave" and a slave was no more human than a dog or a horse. A slave was considered another farm animal. Just like you have house dogs and working dogs, slave owners had house niggers and field niggers.

So when you call a man "nigger" you're calling him sub-human. The young blacks are using the word 1) because the (white owned) record companies are pushing the word and 2) to piss off the old people.

Re:The Name

[ifiwereasculptor]

Nobody is going to install PENIS in a professional environment.

Really? And how do you think politicians are made?

Re:The Name

[dillee1]

"Nobody is going to install PENIS in a professional environment."

I will. Just for telling my boss "I use my PENIS to monitor the network".

Looks like Windows installer isn't quite ready yet

[xxxJonBoyxxx]

Looks like Windows installer isn't quite ready yet

(Still on version 2.6.12, as per: http://gimp-win.sourceforge.net/stable.html)

Application Frame

[RandomUsername99]

It's kind of funny how, after all of this griping (from people like me) about lack of Photoshop like single-window mode in Gimp, Photoshop, at least for Mac, defaults to not having an "Application Frame"– which essentially means that it's not, by default, in single-window mode. It's easy enough to switch back, though.

Re:Application Frame

[RandomUsername99]

Photoshop CS5 for Mac defaults to not being grouped in a single window, brochacho.

And! Another feature!

[DeathToBill]

I've just discovered a new key! Called an exclamation mark! On my keyboard! How did I miss it all these years!?!

The guy who wrote the new feature summary is just a bit too excitable for me to be comfortable with him at large in society.

2.6 for Windows

[Jamu]

It's still stuck on version 2.6.12 for Windows. It's a shame they don't support a (binary) Windows download.

Re:2.6 for Windows

[wahaa]

There is a release candidate for 2.8 here (bottom of the page): http://gimp-win.sourceforge.net/stable.html

Re:2.6 for Windows

[JDG1980]

I have tried that release candidate, and while it works (mostly), it has some serious problems:

• It can't properly estimate the size of JPEG files before saving. Instead, it shows an absurd number (1.3 GB, I think) for any JPEG preview on save, no matter what the actual size is.
• It doesn't save the dock positions in single window mode. for example, if I expand the right dock and contract the left dock, they return to their default sizes every time I close the program and open it again.
• It won't remember it was in full-screen mode. It always opens in windowed mode, no matter what.
• There is no option to close the left or right dock entirely in single-window mode. You can minimize it all the way by dragging to the edge, but that's not the same thing.

... better then Adobe Photoshops window management

[cristiroma]

From TFA: "- Single window mode has arrived in GIMP ... - you’re now able to group layers and move/duplicate/make-visible/delete/etc many layers at once that you combined in the group" - extremely improved text tool - a brand new tool to transform an image on a polygon base - Take care of hundreds of brushes now and only show “flower” brushes, for example, by filtering them! - a new on-screen-indicatior that shows you how far an operation is to be finished (this is more intuitive than just the status bar progress text). - new slider widgets which allow you to use them in different very effective ways" In another words, welcome to Photoshop 7 without easter eggs

CMYK

[virgnarus]

True CMYK support yet? Nope. Looks like Photoshop is still the only option.

Re:CMYK

[Nadir]

Even if GIMP supported CMYK, you'd still complain about it not being useful for professional work for some other reason (e.g. font rendering). GIMP is quite good for screen graphics, and that's what most people do.

Re:CMYK

[dan325]

http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/04/17/1826215/gimp-core-mostly-ported-to-gegl

Not in 2.8, but it will be in 2.10.

Re:CMYK

[virgnarus]

I don't understand. You imply that GIMP isn't sufficient for professional work for stuff like paper publications, yet you state that GIMP is good for screen graphics. This is despite the fact you mention one of the inadequacies with it which is font rendering, an issue that is very much existing with screen graphics no less than on paper. Am I reading your statement incorrectly?

Re:CMYK

[virgnarus]

A glimmer of hope amidst a realm of discontent. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. While the features list for GEGL mentions only scRGB, it still paves the way to using the CMYK color space as mentioned in the summary. Now I just have to figure out how many more years I have to wait till this comes about.

Re:CMYK

[flyingfsck]

Here you go: http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2009/04/03/8-handy-tweaks-to-make-gimp-replace-photoshop/

Here comes the complaning...

[vladilinsky]

Every time there is anything posted about GIMP the entire comments consist of nothing but people complaining that it is not photoshop. What does it contribute to the discussion? We have all heard it before, many times. If you irrationally hate some piece of software, don't use it. If not enjoy the progression and the new features.

I for one, am glad that GIMP exists and want to thank all the people involved for all their hard work. It is not perfect but gets better with every release. I happily use it for all my photo manipulation needs.

Re:Here comes the complaning...

[slim]

I tried Photoshop, and I didn't like it because it wasn't the GIMP.

I'm sure PS is fine, but once you've learned one UI it's difficult to adapt to a different one.

Re:Here comes the complaning...

[Desler]

Well the summary is claiming it rivals Photoshop so it's only fair game to point out it's still missing features that Photoshop had in the early to mid 90s. Hell, even Paint.net has high-end features that The Gimp doesn't.

Re:Here comes the complaning...

[cristiroma]

Let me think ... because THEY compare themselves with Photoshop?? From TFA: " .... So it is even better then Adobe Photoshops window management now!" How about that?

Re:Here comes the complaning...

[Wattos]

Thank you for posting this.

You get a feature rich, stable, complete application for absolutely free and you still complain about it not being something else. Gimp may have a very steap learning curve and may lack some features of photoshop but it is still a solid package and we should be absolutely greatful that there are people out there who dedicate their time to provide the package to us for free.

I am absolutely sure that most people here, who complain about gimp not being photoshop, do not even have a valid license for photoshop. Additionally, if you think its so much worse, why dont you go ahead and try to make it better, its open source after all. But that would actually require you to do some work.

I am happy that gimp 2.8 finally got released. I continue to use and support it :)

Re:Here comes the complaning...

[Frosty Piss]

Every time there is anything posted about GIMP the entire comments consist of nothing but people complaining that it is not photoshop. What does it contribute to the discussion?

The reason people complain is that they really *WANT* to get away from Photoshop and its 600$+ price tag (no everyone can get away with using a pirated copy), but the Gimp Team will not prioritize features that *professional* users want.

Are they features that *everyone* (or even most) users want? Maybe not, but before Gimp can gain widespread acceptance among the various *professional* users, the Gimp team needs to set a high priority on addressing their needs.

And this would be a good thing, many of those people whining about Gimp desperately want to dump Photoshop - It just isn't possible with Gimp in its current state.

And, they lame-assed come-back "It's Open Source, why don't YOU write some code" is, well, lame and doesn't really need addressing.

Re:Here comes the complaning...

[NetDanzr]

Same here. I was never willing to spend the money for Photoshop, so I "grew up" with GIMP. And with Inkscape, instead of Illustrator. So when my company, where I designed the marketing materials as a side job, decided to "professionalize" and get me Photoshop and Illustrator (I believe versions C2), I struggled for a while with the UI and then decided to go back to my old software. I'm sure Adobe products are amazing - otherwise they wouldn't sell so well - but after all the time, it's difficult for me to readjust.

Re:Here comes the complaning...

[jockm]

I don't care that it isn't photoshop. I do, however, care that when it comes to features GIMP 2.8 still compares badly to Photoshop 7. No non destructive editing, no CYMK, I don't see anything in the announcement about high color depths, etc.

I don't need GIMP to be a clone of photoshop. I don't need the keystrokes, the icons, even the core philosophy to be the same. But I do need it to compare well against the feature set of PS7, which came out a decade ago.

We know that small teams can produce apps that are comparable to PS7, in much less time than the 16 years it took us to get to GIMP 2.8 — Paint.NET, Acorn, Pixelmator, etc.

It is more than time to stop giving the GIMP team a pass, and start holding them to a higher standard.

Re:Here comes the complaning...

[westlake]

Every time there is anything posted about GIMP the entire comments consist of nothing but people complaining that it is not photoshop. What does it contribute to the discussion? We have all heard it before, many times. If you irrationally hate some piece of software, don't use it.

It is not unreasonable remind the geek that other users do not value a FOSS app for its ideological purity or political correctness. It has to deliver the goods.

how about a new name?

[larry bagina]

I want to use GIMP at work, but I need to get permission from my boss first. He's a into the leather scene so I'm afraid he'll get the wrong impression.

Re:how about a new name?

[Anonymous Coward]

Go ahead and ask, but be direct and forceful about it. Who knows, maybe you'll get that assistant you always wanted.

A poll

[the_Bionic_lemming]

How many people here comparing Gimp to Photoshop have....Actually PAID for the licenses for all the version of photoshop they used?

I'm just happy there's a free alternative to photo editing out there. No, it may not be as slick as photoshop - but you don't have to steal gimp to use it.

Change the name, please!

[mapuche]

The first unnatractive GIMP feature is its name. Please change it to something more appealing while describes what it does. Photoshop, Paintshop, Illustrator,Inkscape, Pencil, etc. are good names for similar programs, please find a more clever name.

Re:Change the name, please!

[Stuarticus]

Hi, I've forked it for you, I thought a better name would be "paintbitch" please PM me for a download key.

Re:Change the name, please!

[Anonymous Coward]

They could always change it to the Photo and Illustration Manipulation Program, or PIMP.

Re:Change the name, please!

[mapuche]

>GNU image Manipulation Program isn't descriptive?

Yes, but appealing or even funny. Calling a creative tool like ths one gimp, dork, dick, etc is not very smart or creative.

>Wait, do you want it to be clever, or descriptive?

How about both, is it possible? we're all here smart people, I'm sure we can end with a clever name.

>Here's an idea: write your own image manipulation program, then you can name it whatever you want.

So I can't contribute with a positive opinion to make The GIMP (sigh!) more appealing to the masses?

OMG Bold! And Italic! And Colors!

[svyyn]

Now it is possible to change text inside the bounding text box and also use certain styles! For example select a word and press a “Bold” or “Italic” button. You can also change the size, line-height and font! Not just that – meanwhile it is also possible to change the color of certain words and characters.
This feature is absolutely great!

Bold, italic, and colors!? Is this a joke?

Re:have they speeded it up any??

[Sarten-X]

Wasn't a big fan of their dark gray on light black theme.

Don't ever do pro image work, then.

You may be familiar with those oddly-colored pictures that you stare at for a while, then look at a white wall and see the true-color image. Your eyes get used to whatever colors are around, and try to compensate by altering your perception. When working for hours on the same image, editors' eyes will start changing the color balance as they're working, and suddenly that bright red shirt is just a little too dull on that left side, so they raise the saturation until it looks good... then ten minutes later it looks like the shirt's plastic.

Professional retouchers often surround themselves with as much matte 50% gray as possible, because it doesn't affect the color balance. Sure, it's ugly, but it makes for better pictures.

Re:how about a new name? Use name, not acronym

[Jeng]

Rather than introduce it by it's acronym why not use it's full name when recommending it?

Re:have they speeded it up any??

[torgosan]

Chromatic adaptation possibly...

Re:have they speeded it up any??

[_0xd0ad]

The term is "afterimage". The best analogy is monitor burn-in (if any of the kids here are old enough to remember that). It's basically the same, except that in the case of your eyes, it's not permanent (usually).

When the light receptors have received the same thing for so long, they eventually just stop responding to it, or their response drops by some significant fraction. I.e. if you're staring at a red object for a while, gradually the "red" receptors in your eye just stop firing that information to your brain so quickly, and the object will gradually look more dull, though you probably won't notice it. If you then rapidly shift your gaze to a white object, however, it will look very noticeably cyan (blue-green) because the "red" receptors still aren't running at 100%. Staring at something that's gray or black gives them a chance to recover.

I've heard it described in terms of both the light-sensing cells gradually lessening their response, and of the neurons in the brain gradually learning to disregard the stimulus; I'm not sure which is primarily the cause for the visual effect, or if it's a combination of both (likely).

Stupid

[shiftless]

The only "children" in this discussion are those who, rather than attempting to understand how others think, simply dismiss them as "childish." The rest of us understand that whining and crying and bitching and moaning about the fact that people don't like the name GIMP, and calling them names to boot......doesn't change the fact that they don't like it, and isn't going to make people want to use your product.

Re:Looks like Windows installer isn't quite ready

[Paul Slocum]

Yes, so why is the news being posted now? It seems like terrible marketing to release the news on huge news sources when only about 2% of people are actually able to try the new version. The large majority of GIMP users are on WIndows. I think it's partly because gimpusers.com posted the news when the saw the source on the FTP before GIMP actually announced the release.

The GIMP developers' response was this:

Not a release until we say so.
Truly yours, GIMP developers

P.S. And please don't make us think of evil things like banning your IP for FTP access. Spreading the news is great. Doing it before an official announcement is evil. It's our right to reserve a certain level of surprise. Have some respect.

GPL v3???

[mark-t]

Would that not mean, for instance, if I run a commercial shop that does photo restoration and touchups, and I use a in-house customized version of GIMP to produce a result for a customer, that I must also make the source that I customized available to that customer?

Re:GPL v3???

[mark-t]

From here:

...It requires the operator of a network server to provide the source code of the modified version running there to the users of that server. Therefore, public use of a modified version, on a publicly accessible server, gives the public access to the source code of the modified version.

If that provision *ONLY* applies when the user is utilizing the server via some direct network communication then it seems to me that one could effectively make a loophole in that provision simply by introducing an arbitrary layer of indirection that does not involve any actual network communication between the user and the software (possibly even an automated service). I had figured that the designers of the GPL v3 would have anticipated that loophole and plugged it, which is why I presumed that in my aforementioned hypothetical scenario that that a photo restoration placed which used a customized GIMP would have to distribute its modified source.

If I'm misunderstanding something, by all means, enlighten me.

Really?

[bashibazouk]

How about you take your eyes off the screen and turn around. I bet you will find quite a few printed examples with in your field of vision.

Patents

[tepples]

True CMYK support yet?

Have relevant patents owned by Pantone expired yet? The last time I heard, Pantone was unwilling to license them under terms compatible with copyleft licenses such as the GPL.

Yes, yes...

[bashibazouk]

We all know that. Doesn't change the fact that GIMP has become the poster boy for poorly chosen acronyms. Maybe the GIMP people should grow up and admit they screwed up and come up with a better name...

looks good except...

[daniel78]

The list of new features looked awesome until i read this:

"GIMP 2.8 relies on a newer version of GTK+2 that unfortunately has partially broken support for graphics tablets such as Wacom. If your graphic tablet doesn't work in GIMP 2.8 as it should, we recommend downgrading to 2.6 until we release GIMP 3.0 that relies on GTK+3 which has fully functional support for advanced input devices."

Shouldn't reliable graphics tablet support for image editing software be a huge priority? If broken tablet support is merely a footnote, who exactly are they aiming this software at? Because its apparently not graphics designers...

I don't want to sound negative, because the software is free, and its actually pretty good, and no, i don't have time to go fix the bugs myself, so i shouldn't complain. It just seems that there's constantly some major issue that seriously decreases its usefulness. Oh well, 2.6 it is then (though tablet support in 2.6 is flaky too - at least on windows)

Winding back how far?

[dbIII]

As mentioned in another post, the GIMP used to bring up a window for ever layer you were using

It's possible that Slashdot didn't even exist before that was changed - after all the graphics was originally done using gimp, which was a few years old by then.
Back then photoshop didn't even have "undo" and nobody gripes about that now. Back then of course I was told "real professionals save frequently so don't need undo" - fanboys will be fanboys.