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Growing Evidence of Football Causing Brain Damage
ideonexus writes "NFL Linebacker Junior Seau's suicide this week bears a striking similarity to NFL Safety Dave Duerson's suicide last year, who shot himself in the chest so that doctors could study his brain, where they found the same chronic traumatic encephalopathy that has been found in the brains of 20 other dead football players. Malcom Gladwell stirred up controversy in 2009 by comparing professional football to dog fighting for the trauma the game inflicts on players' brains. With mounting evidence that the repeated concussions football players receive during their careers causing a lifetime of brain problems, it raises serious concerns about America's most popular sport and ethical questions for its fanbase."
Just because you see a bunch of people who seem brain damaged anywhere there is evidence of football does not mean that you've found "evidence of football causing brain damage."
Why we need doctors to tell us this? Isn't it pretty obvious that if you get hit in the head a lot, it will cause brain damage?
AccountKiller
and with the millions of dollars they are paid, how many of them donated to research? Football is modern day gladiator fighting, they are paid to kill each other on the field of battle, not to tickle each other. this is a job hazard and you have have to accept that, if it wasn't you wouldn't be paid as much.
The football players particularly. Some of them weren't so smart in their senior year or after graduation. At the time, we made fun of them, which in retrospect kind of sucks. They may have been hostile, bullying and overly aggressive, but brain damage isn't something I'd wish on anyone.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
People with brain cells to lose will avoid this component failure mode anyway. Now please excuse me while I'm destroying my brain with programming.
Ezekiel 23:20
Regardless, football remains a normal, healthy, wholesome activity. Video games, on the other hand, still turn out maladjusted serial killers.
--- Math illiteracy affects 8 out of every 5 people.
We'r talking about the rugby-like football here, not the one kindly called soccer on that other continent.
We're about to spend $1 billion dollars to expand the Vikings stadium from 65,000 to 65,500. I'd call that brain damaged.
The solution is obvious, remove all padding.
The long term effect of repeated blows to the head is IMHO the biggest issue facing contact sports, especially (American/Canadian) football and ice hockey. Based on the growing body of research it appears that the the sports are inherently unsafe as they are currently played. Football is the number 1 spectator sport in America, so you can bet the NFL does not want to change too much, and yet they are now being sued by former players who have suffered concussions during their career. How can the sport be changed to protect the players? Helmet technology will likely continue to improve, but enough to protect from brain damage with repeated hits? Does the NFL become the NTFL (National Touch Football League)? Do we still have linemen block to protect the quarterback, or do pass rushers count to four-Mississippi before rushing?
Hockey does not seem to be as plagued as football, and eliminating fighting would prevent a lot of injuries as the basic game does not lead to as much trauma to the head as football. Possibly the biggest question for all sports is what the future may hold if parents keep their children off the playing fields. That's something that will be gradual but I expect that the pool of available talent will start to dwindle as the smarter and more talented athletes choose safer career paths (baseball, investment banking?) and only the desperate take chances with their future sanity and health.
"We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and by the depth of our answers." Carl Sagan
Get rid of helmets.
I once took an excursion to Reddit, and later HN. Unlimited up/down voting sucks when dealing with a hive-mind.
Turns out it's that weird wrestling / handball game they play in the US.
Well, that's about the creepiest description of American Football I've ever seen...ewww.
Your first sentence is exactly why research like this is necessary. Prospective football players have every right to know exactly what they'll be risking if they play. And while no one is forcing them to play, the US does have a policy of banning certain activities for the detrimental effects on willing participants.
When someone says, "Any fool can see
The NFL needs to set aside a SUSBTANTIAL of their $9 billion cash flow to researching better helmets. I don't mean moderate improvements. I'm talking about something that can wick away nearly all of the impact force to other parts of the body. This is the single biggest existential threat to the game, and it has got to be resolved.
Seau was a great person AND a great football player. He did a lot for kids in our community. He was well-known for his intensity and charm; it is so sad that he was feeling down with no way out and this is the result. Rest in peace.
sigs are for losers (except to point out that sigs are for losers)
Turns out it's that weird wrestling / hand egg game they play in the US.
FTFY
c++;
Hopefully this is a nail in the coffin for College Football. The fact that playing the sport is now seen to be damaging to the mind and brain at the basest levels should quell some of the "We're turning out well-balanced scholars, fit in body and mind" that advocates are spouting. Colleges need football teams like fish need bicycles, and universities of all sorts should be the last institutions encouraging this.
and with the millions of dollars they are paid, how many of them donated to research?
What? I don't understand why I need to pay for research when my employer endangers me. Example:
and with the millions of dollars coal miners were paid, how many of them donated to research? Coal mining is modern day pyramid building, they are paid to sacrifice their bodies so the industrial revolution can push us forward, not to be coddled. this is a job hazard and you have have to accept that, if it wasn't you wouldn't be paid as much.
There are over one thousand lawsuits by former football players against the league. This was covered by NPR a while ago, and it sounds like players are saying "I got hit here, in this game. I had X symptoms. Coach told me I didn't need to see the medical professional because he needed me back in the game. I now experience Y long term ailments." Regardless of the amount they are each paid, this could be compared to mesothelioma from asbestos exposure while installing installation. The NFL has deep pockets, let these players have their day in court.
... that doesn't mean we accept deaths when companies build dams to service communities. We have technology, engineering, medicine, etc to help us be better than that. We're better than we were thousands of years ago. We don't need the gladiators to die anymore. The NFL is making bank off these players -- even after the players themselves are all millionaires that squander their money within a few years of the end of their career. The courts will decide what liability the NFL must assume.
Check out Shanahan's suspensions of NHL players. I will tell you right now that this is the NHL attempting to wash their own hands of similar liabilities. Three hockey players killed themselves very recently.
Look, in Roman times, people used to die building the aqueducts
My work here is dung.
The fact that a sport that is basically glorified violence causes mental problems in the participants over the course of time does not come as a huge surprise to me.
In fact, I think that when the country finally wakes up and realizes that the right thing to do is to abandon violent sports like American football, rugby, and hockey (at least, hockey as it is commonly played today) for good, it will be a huge net positive for America and, indeed, for the world.
Dan Aris
Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
I would really like for the National Academic Decathlon to receive more attention than high school sports.
My school made it to the national level my senior year (I was not involved) and there was absolutely no mention of it in the local papers. Instead the papers continued their portrayal of our school as full of druggies, which well yes it was, but those druggies were very smart.
Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
Oh, I'll give it a shot.
Is it ethical to provide an incentive to other human beings to engage in an activity that might lead to serious mental problems so you can get a few hours enjoyment?
I'd say yes, it's fine, as long as the participants understand the risk and feel like they're being fairly compensated for it. I think MMA, for example, looks awesomely fun. Doing it professionally carries a chance of serious harm coming to you. Is it worth it? Eh, not for me. I get paid for my brain working well. Letting someone bash it around an octagon is probably unwise. That, and I'm out of shape and...not 20. But am I going to impose MY value judgement on that on everyone? Nope.
and with the millions of dollars they are paid, how many of them donated to research?
Well from the summary:
Malcom Gladwell stirred up controversy in 2009 by comparing professional football to dog fighting for the trauma the game inflicts on players' brains, but with mounting evidence that the repeated concussions football players receive during their careers causing a lifetime of brain problems
I recall Michael Vick had quite the experiment set up to study this but, of course, PETA shut him down.
Okay, now I'm going to hell officially.
My work here is dung.
Yeah, you're absolutely right, no highschooler's parents, peers, teachers or coaches are at all involved in what they choose to do.
.: Semper Absurda
If you believe in evolution, the answer is obvious - the egg. There were dinosaur eggs long before there were chickens.
If you believe in creation, the answer is obvious - the egg. Because nothing, including chickens, can "evolve" from something else, so chickens come from chicken eggs, same as fish come from fish eggs and donuts come from those donut seeds you find inside every box of Cheerios.
Let's call it what it is, Anti-Social Media.
The football players are exactly like fighting dogs, made to be just about the game, until they are torn up and spit out, then hopefully they have support or made enough money to support themselves afterwards. Jerry McGuire sums it up, its all about getting the money for the time you play, and your whole family is hoping you get through it in one piece, and with reward to show for it, because there are only so many spots as commentators for washed up football players....sadly.
Some people might find it unethical to watch a sport or other event if they have factual knowledge that the participants' health is being compromised for entertainment.
The obvious parallel is to ancient gladiatorial contests: some Roman intellectuals opposed the games, though most did not.
.: Semper Absurda
We'll change the name "football" to something else as soon as you change the name soccer to "endlessly faking injuries then miraculously recovering once a penalty has been called".
Not a chance in hell. Too much money. And college football is a religion in the U.S. Watch and observe denial behavior in action - it's educational. This will take decades to stop, and the supporters will scream "Liberals and government don't tell us what to do!" and "You haven't proven anything!" the entire bloody way. I can name the other topics they similarly fight the bad fight on, but that would depress all of us. A century from now, with thousands of dead players dissected and shown to be damaged, they will STILL print textbooks to tell their children that It Is A Controversy.
Footballers do it for hours at a time, a few days a week, twenty or so weeks a year. Fighters only actually fight for five to fifty minutes on fight nights, which occur once a month on a busy schedule. When training they usually don't take very many hits to the head to ensure they don't get an accidental injury.
There are lots of other lifestyle-damaging injuries in American football. Ask Jim Otto -- he's had his knees replaced not once, but twice, not to mention dozens of other surgeries, arthritis, infections, an amputation, etc.
If you are an investigative reporter, I suggest that an interesting topic for your research would be to pick a particular team, say, the 1972 Miami Dolphins, and track down all the players. How are they doing -- physically? As well as their peers in other professions? As well as they expected, when they were younger?
Basketball's 1906 switch from bottomless peach baskets as goals to nets hanging from metal hoops doesn't change the fundamental character of the game, unlike the changes that were made to soccer in the rugby fork (of which American football is itself a fork). One could still mount a peach basket of appropriate diameter on a backboard and play basketball.
That's what I heard, and there are less injuries in rugby because players don't wear projective gear (helmet, pads) so it is more of a wrestling match instead of a "run-and-strike" match. Anyone from Europe to chime in on this? It was also mentioned (all this is what I've heard as I've done neither football or rugby) that protective gear for football players is meant to project the person running and tackling the other (or in many ways a striking blow), the protective gear does not really protect the one getting hit.
I think the other danger of football is distraction, i.e. many young boys are taught going into pro football is a excellent career choice. If you can survive preparing yourself and get selected and still survive training, then by all means become an NFL player. However, pro bowl does not have many job openings (and most cannot qualify) and youngsters will be distracted away from career choices that have wider opportunities. We hear about some former NFL players that go on to successful careers after football, we don't hear from many other former NFL players that are broke.
Should football be outlawed? No but maybe let people know risks involved. Such legislation probably cause all sorts of bad fallout. I'd like to see US reduce its fascination with football. There are a lot of OTHER SPORTS besides football!
mfwright@batnet.com
91 million watched the super bowl. The largest NASCAR race gets about 18 million.
There are far more foot ball players then NASCAR driver.
That said, it's irrelevant because the vast amount of NASCAR fans also watch football, the reverse is not true,.
Under what possible measurement is NASCAR more popular them American football.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
No, dumb ass. Then they will have to change how they hit, and with how much energy. Instead of a game of brutes, it instantly become a game with a new layer of strategy. Just like it used to be.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Brain Damage causes Football.
Correlation is causation.
The price of freedom is eternal litigation.
Some kids start playing football at age 5 in pop warner, so lets not pretend this is a hazard only borne by adults making informed choices. I played football in middle school/high school, and I bet I suffered some brain injury because of it. I wouldn't say i was adequately informed then of the potential risks, and I likely would have made a poor decision even if I were informed. My parents, on the other hand, would probably have loved to know the true risks of a sport as their baby boy was out there knocking heads. Many of us were lead to believe that modern helmets all but alleviated the risk of brain injury.
Honestly, kids and young adults are being pressured by parents, coaches, peers into playing a sport that is now known to cause brain damage, and Slashdot can do nothing but complain about professional athletes pay and make fun of dumb jocks.
Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. -- Susan Ertz
Football has been crippling its victims for decades. It wasn't news when this documentary came out: http://mobilemojoman.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/movie-review-disposable-heroes-the-blood-guts-and-tears-side-of-football/
Nothing will change.
If you believe in creation, the answer is obvious - the egg.
Hang on - creation basically says "god made chickens" (and a few other animals etc) - not chicken eggs. Not believing in evolution has no impact there, since god just happened to make chickens so that they would lay eggs. You can believe in evolution and creation - e.g. you can believe that god made birds and chickens evolved from them. (Or that he merely created life and let things evolve from there according to "HIS" plan.) Obviously once you have decided evolution is correct you don't need a creator anymore (due to Occam's razor), but you could believe in a creator regardless. That's the position of the catholic church btw.
However if you decide to take that specific piece of the bible literally - (nobody actually does that with the whole text, there are no real literalists, only people who haven't read it all) - well, then chickens came first.
As I understand it, the rules in American football are such that a punt is (de facto) a turnover, and the shape of the ball has become more elongated to make kicking less effective than running and passing. The shape of a basketball has changed far less; it was originally a soccer ball (a sphere of circumference 69 cm) and is now a textured sphere of circumference 75.4 cm.
If you believe in evolution, the answer is obvious - the egg. There were dinosaur eggs long before there were chickens
Agreed.
If you believe in creation, the answer is obvious - the egg.
Not really, God may have created adult chickens which then laid eggs. After all, Adam and Eve were created as adults, not babies, so the same may be true for the animals.