Slashdot Mirror
Growing Evidence of Football Causing Brain Damage
ideonexus writes "NFL Linebacker Junior Seau's suicide this week bears a striking similarity to NFL Safety Dave Duerson's suicide last year, who shot himself in the chest so that doctors could study his brain, where they found the same chronic traumatic encephalopathy that has been found in the brains of 20 other dead football players. Malcom Gladwell stirred up controversy in 2009 by comparing professional football to dog fighting for the trauma the game inflicts on players' brains. With mounting evidence that the repeated concussions football players receive during their careers causing a lifetime of brain problems, it raises serious concerns about America's most popular sport and ethical questions for its fanbase."
Just because you see a bunch of people who seem brain damaged anywhere there is evidence of football does not mean that you've found "evidence of football causing brain damage."
Why we need doctors to tell us this? Isn't it pretty obvious that if you get hit in the head a lot, it will cause brain damage?
AccountKiller
and with the millions of dollars they are paid, how many of them donated to research? Football is modern day gladiator fighting, they are paid to kill each other on the field of battle, not to tickle each other. this is a job hazard and you have have to accept that, if it wasn't you wouldn't be paid as much.
The football players particularly. Some of them weren't so smart in their senior year or after graduation. At the time, we made fun of them, which in retrospect kind of sucks. They may have been hostile, bullying and overly aggressive, but brain damage isn't something I'd wish on anyone.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
I wonder how long is it going to take before this turns into a "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" debate.
People with brain cells to lose will avoid this component failure mode anyway. Now please excuse me while I'm destroying my brain with programming.
Ezekiel 23:20
This causes Brain Damage. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2137260/Tony-Pietrantonios-face-turned-mush-brutal-knockout-blow.html#ixzz1tZHbsgUi
Football is a sport for girls.
In GOD we trust, all others we monitor.
Regardless, football remains a normal, healthy, wholesome activity. Video games, on the other hand, still turn out maladjusted serial killers.
--- Math illiteracy affects 8 out of every 5 people.
We'r talking about the rugby-like football here, not the one kindly called soccer on that other continent.
I wonder if they've checked for evidence of brain damage present from birth in people that play that pointless sport... trolololol
We're about to spend $1 billion dollars to expand the Vikings stadium from 65,000 to 65,500. I'd call that brain damaged.
The solution is obvious, remove all padding.
I've been playing football for years, and I hardly have any potato.
I think you might want to re-evaluate your comment, I am pretty sure I've read articles where football players (the soccer kind) had issues as well (although maybe not as severe) due to the large amount of headers that are required in certain roles
-- the cake is a lie
It proves that you'r not soft-headed... oh wait-
The long term effect of repeated blows to the head is IMHO the biggest issue facing contact sports, especially (American/Canadian) football and ice hockey. Based on the growing body of research it appears that the the sports are inherently unsafe as they are currently played. Football is the number 1 spectator sport in America, so you can bet the NFL does not want to change too much, and yet they are now being sued by former players who have suffered concussions during their career. How can the sport be changed to protect the players? Helmet technology will likely continue to improve, but enough to protect from brain damage with repeated hits? Does the NFL become the NTFL (National Touch Football League)? Do we still have linemen block to protect the quarterback, or do pass rushers count to four-Mississippi before rushing?
Hockey does not seem to be as plagued as football, and eliminating fighting would prevent a lot of injuries as the basic game does not lead to as much trauma to the head as football. Possibly the biggest question for all sports is what the future may hold if parents keep their children off the playing fields. That's something that will be gradual but I expect that the pool of available talent will start to dwindle as the smarter and more talented athletes choose safer career paths (baseball, investment banking?) and only the desperate take chances with their future sanity and health.
"We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and by the depth of our answers." Carl Sagan
Get rid of helmets.
I once took an excursion to Reddit, and later HN. Unlimited up/down voting sucks when dealing with a hive-mind.
Turns out it's that weird wrestling / handball game they play in the US.
Well, that's about the creepiest description of American Football I've ever seen...ewww.
Isn't football.
It's NASCAR.
Your first sentence is exactly why research like this is necessary. Prospective football players have every right to know exactly what they'll be risking if they play. And while no one is forcing them to play, the US does have a policy of banning certain activities for the detrimental effects on willing participants.
When someone says, "Any fool can see
The NFL needs to set aside a SUSBTANTIAL of their $9 billion cash flow to researching better helmets. I don't mean moderate improvements. I'm talking about something that can wick away nearly all of the impact force to other parts of the body. This is the single biggest existential threat to the game, and it has got to be resolved.
No, this isn't what they get paid for - or we'd have gladiatorial, "to the death" type spectacles. And this affects HIGH SCHOOL students, not just paid athletes. Accidental risk vs systemic risk are two entirely different beasts.
Those ethical questions would be what exactly?
I'm god, but it's a bit of a drag really...
Seau was a great person AND a great football player. He did a lot for kids in our community. He was well-known for his intensity and charm; it is so sad that he was feeling down with no way out and this is the result. Rest in peace.
sigs are for losers (except to point out that sigs are for losers)
Turns out it's that weird wrestling / hand egg game they play in the US.
FTFY
c++;
Hopefully this is a nail in the coffin for College Football. The fact that playing the sport is now seen to be damaging to the mind and brain at the basest levels should quell some of the "We're turning out well-balanced scholars, fit in body and mind" that advocates are spouting. Colleges need football teams like fish need bicycles, and universities of all sorts should be the last institutions encouraging this.
And yet the first two words of the summary were "NFL Linebacker"...
I knew it all along! My brain goes numb just by watching it.
They don't know the long term effects. That's the point of research.
But you know what you pissant? They are forcing me to pay for the fucking sport. TV providers increase our rates everytime ESPN, NBC, FOX, CBS jacks up their rates because the NFL gets them into a bidding war.
So you know what, we are all part of the problem.
Ass-hole.
It's fun to some people. If they want to take that risk, I'm not going to stop them. I guess I just don't think about the children enough...
And while no one is forcing them to play, the US does have a policy of banning certain activities for the detrimental effects on willing participants.
Yeah, we really need to stop doing that.
Nobody makes them play football. They can watch TV and play Madden all year. If they want to put themselves at risk, let them.
sudo make me a sandwich
and with the millions of dollars they are paid, how many of them donated to research?
What? I don't understand why I need to pay for research when my employer endangers me. Example:
and with the millions of dollars coal miners were paid, how many of them donated to research? Coal mining is modern day pyramid building, they are paid to sacrifice their bodies so the industrial revolution can push us forward, not to be coddled. this is a job hazard and you have have to accept that, if it wasn't you wouldn't be paid as much.
There are over one thousand lawsuits by former football players against the league. This was covered by NPR a while ago, and it sounds like players are saying "I got hit here, in this game. I had X symptoms. Coach told me I didn't need to see the medical professional because he needed me back in the game. I now experience Y long term ailments." Regardless of the amount they are each paid, this could be compared to mesothelioma from asbestos exposure while installing installation. The NFL has deep pockets, let these players have their day in court.
... that doesn't mean we accept deaths when companies build dams to service communities. We have technology, engineering, medicine, etc to help us be better than that. We're better than we were thousands of years ago. We don't need the gladiators to die anymore. The NFL is making bank off these players -- even after the players themselves are all millionaires that squander their money within a few years of the end of their career. The courts will decide what liability the NFL must assume.
Check out Shanahan's suspensions of NHL players. I will tell you right now that this is the NHL attempting to wash their own hands of similar liabilities. Three hockey players killed themselves very recently.
Look, in Roman times, people used to die building the aqueducts
My work here is dung.
The fact that a sport that is basically glorified violence causes mental problems in the participants over the course of time does not come as a huge surprise to me.
In fact, I think that when the country finally wakes up and realizes that the right thing to do is to abandon violent sports like American football, rugby, and hockey (at least, hockey as it is commonly played today) for good, it will be a huge net positive for America and, indeed, for the world.
Dan Aris
Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
correcting myself:
I can't put "I played 4 years football" on my resume; it doesn't offer any long term value (but it does cause long-term brain damage from repeated hits).
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
I can't put "I played 4 years football" on my resume; it doesn't offer any long term value.
No, but it does explain a few things. ;)
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
They have the most brain damaged athletes of any sport (see "Amar'e Stoudemire").
Hopefully this is a nail in the coffin for College Football.
And not High School football as well?
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
It's called rugby you dumb Americans.
RIP - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andre_Waters
Actually, I think that brain damage caused football here.
As (I think) Foxworthy put it: Helmets are proof we are the dumbest people around. We do something that has the hazard of cracking our heads open, and instead of stopping this activity, we design a helmet to prevent cracking our heads open.
if (it != oneThing) it = another;
Though, now that you mention it, there has been some concern about the effects(particularly when the soccer ball in question is wet) of the deliberate contact of ball and head in the strange and exotic custom of unamerican football...
I would really like for the National Academic Decathlon to receive more attention than high school sports.
My school made it to the national level my senior year (I was not involved) and there was absolutely no mention of it in the local papers. Instead the papers continued their portrayal of our school as full of druggies, which well yes it was, but those druggies were very smart.
Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
Join a Fantasy Football league. It is more nerdy than playing Magic the Gathering within Minecraft through a Commodore 64 running Linux while watching Lord of the Rings inserting your own Monty Python and the Holy Grail lines while living in your Mom's basement
Seriously, I'd like a study of this.
Anyone who shells out $$$ for an "authentic jersey", pays outlandish premiums for just for the right to buy sub-standard seats in a freezing stadium, or just gets worked up over the consequences of an event that regardless of the outcome, has no legitimate, meaningful impact on their lives, and never, ever will.
I would've thought the connection between the 2 was a no-brainer.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
When your job is to play a full-contact sport, injuries happen. That's why they get multi-million dollar contracts
College football players don't get paid, even though the schools make millions of dollars on their labor.
and with the millions of dollars they are paid, how many of them donated to research?
Well from the summary:
Malcom Gladwell stirred up controversy in 2009 by comparing professional football to dog fighting for the trauma the game inflicts on players' brains, but with mounting evidence that the repeated concussions football players receive during their careers causing a lifetime of brain problems
I recall Michael Vick had quite the experiment set up to study this but, of course, PETA shut him down.
Okay, now I'm going to hell officially.
My work here is dung.
Your first sentence is exactly why research like this is necessary. Prospective football players have every right to know exactly what they'll be risking if they play. And while no one is forcing them to play, the US does have a policy of banning certain activities for the detrimental effects on willing participants.
It doesn't take research to realize that a full-contact sport in which 200+ lbs people run into each other while sprinting down a field can cause brain injury. That's like saying "running into a concrete wall while driving 60 MPH can cause brain injury." Or "inhaling toxic chemicals can cause brain injury."
sudo make me a sandwich
It's fun
Yes, believe it or not, football can be fun. But parents, coaches, fans, the industry often take a game of physical contest and turn it into something ugly, with violence, social standing and money as its end. People should be able to choose to play football, but there is something wrong with the sport when players are targeted for hits because their concussion history makes it likely they will be permanently disabled.
“He’s had a lot of concussions,” Giants wide receiver Devin Thomas told the Newark Star Ledger. “We were just like, ‘We gotta put a hit on that guy.’” Thomas went on to praise safety Tyler Sash for landing the dizzying hit. “Sash did a great job hitting [Williams] early, and he looked kind of dazed when he got up. I feel like that made a difference, and he coughed it up.”
[1]
.: Semper Absurda
Yeah, you're absolutely right, no highschooler's parents, peers, teachers or coaches are at all involved in what they choose to do.
.: Semper Absurda
Yeah, ignore the $40,000/year in tuition that they don't have to pay. Just because they don't receive a paycheck doesn't mean they are not paid.
sudo make me a sandwich
It's always boggled my mind how the relatively modest and restrained use of anabolic steroids and/or HGH by some baseball players was considered a huge scandal in the sports world, yet much larger doses of steroids that turn football players into 350+ pound freaks are completely ignored. Greater player mass translates into greater collision force - it's basic physics and there is no way around it. Football players didn't weigh nearly as much 30 years ago. While a crackdown on juicing in football wouldn't fix the problem, it could at least ameliorate it to some degree. Steroids are far more dangerous in a full-contact sport like football than they are in baseball.
it's handegg, not football
This finding is sure to enhance my feeling of mental superiority and soothe my hurt feelings the next time I'm stuffed into a locker by a brain damaged jock.
The football players are exactly like fighting dogs, made to be just about the game, until they are torn up and spit out, then hopefully they have support or made enough money to support themselves afterwards. Jerry McGuire sums it up, its all about getting the money for the time you play, and your whole family is hoping you get through it in one piece, and with reward to show for it, because there are only so many spots as commentators for washed up football players....sadly.
It's not like we're breaking out the Christians and lions here. Besides, I'm pretty sure the last five years I've spent sitting in a cubicle for 8 hours/day has done quite a bit of damage to my mental capacity. Every job has risks and does some form of irreparable damage to your body. I have a reduced sense of smell from long-term, low-level exposure to a fumes from a solution that was basically concentrated vinegar.
Compare medical or brain damage in motorcycle racing, car racing or boxing or mixed martial arts or cage fighting. Football may prove better than some other sports. How many sports would need to be cancelled? the public would be upset. Oops! i forgot ice hockey.
We'll change the name "football" to something else as soon as you change the name soccer to "endlessly faking injuries then miraculously recovering once a penalty has been called".
Note, I'm not a doctor and I don't have any inside information, but I know that lots of players have used all kinds of combinations of steroids with unknown/unresearched effects on the human mind. A friend of mine in college was one of those muscleheads and he said practically every roider he knew had mental issues. I take that to mean your brain is being affected, not just some hormonal changes. Now, how does that factor in after years to decades?
It won't be hard to do studies to isolate injuries or users.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
Not a chance in hell. Too much money. And college football is a religion in the U.S. Watch and observe denial behavior in action - it's educational. This will take decades to stop, and the supporters will scream "Liberals and government don't tell us what to do!" and "You haven't proven anything!" the entire bloody way. I can name the other topics they similarly fight the bad fight on, but that would depress all of us. A century from now, with thousands of dead players dissected and shown to be damaged, they will STILL print textbooks to tell their children that It Is A Controversy.
In high school gym, we'd sometimes play flag football, or touch football. No tackling, no slamming into people. Sometimes you'd fall down. It was fun. And pretty safe.
Breakfast served all day!
... while this study is interesting doesn't just living give us all subtle injuries? I mean doesn't sitting our our butts for a good portion of school, work and leisure give us issues with circulation and blood clotting over long period of time? or how about poor diet?
I'd like to see these studies balanced against 'everyday' risks we all take for granted, if they are significantly divergent then I'd agree we should do something about sports. Otherwise it's life is about risks, just living means we're dying and there's not much yet we can do about it until science/tech can repair damage of just living a 'regular' life.
Killing college football would almost entirely kill high school football. A lot of the impetus between high school football is college scholarships.
Footballers do it for hours at a time, a few days a week, twenty or so weeks a year. Fighters only actually fight for five to fifty minutes on fight nights, which occur once a month on a busy schedule. When training they usually don't take very many hits to the head to ensure they don't get an accidental injury.
There are lots of other lifestyle-damaging injuries in American football. Ask Jim Otto -- he's had his knees replaced not once, but twice, not to mention dozens of other surgeries, arthritis, infections, an amputation, etc.
If you are an investigative reporter, I suggest that an interesting topic for your research would be to pick a particular team, say, the 1972 Miami Dolphins, and track down all the players. How are they doing -- physically? As well as their peers in other professions? As well as they expected, when they were younger?
Did the game, [that] Junior Seau loved, help take his life?
The commas and the "that" are both optional in English there.
"Free" tuition isn't much of a bargain for someone who is intellectually or temperamentally unsuited to college – neither for the "student-athlete" himself, nor for the real students who are burdened with his presence.
I was thinking the same thing. The players choose to play the sport. No one is forcing them to. I can see banning football in institutions that cater to people who are not yet 18 but I see no reason to outright ban it for everyone. If they want to bash their brains around, let them do it.
Basketball's 1906 switch from bottomless peach baskets as goals to nets hanging from metal hoops doesn't change the fundamental character of the game, unlike the changes that were made to soccer in the rugby fork (of which American football is itself a fork). One could still mount a peach basket of appropriate diameter on a backboard and play basketball.
ALl the want is for that piece of meet to preform as it always or better, no matter what. Also, to sign stuff for free so they can resell it.
I have heard to many of these fans scream and yell when a player goes down, or can't perform for some reason. I have heard them over and over again come up with excuse on why a player shouldn't be punished in a manner where they miss a game.
And I am talking people from pre high school to pro.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I'm here all week...
My Heart Is A Flower
That's what I heard, and there are less injuries in rugby because players don't wear projective gear (helmet, pads) so it is more of a wrestling match instead of a "run-and-strike" match. Anyone from Europe to chime in on this? It was also mentioned (all this is what I've heard as I've done neither football or rugby) that protective gear for football players is meant to project the person running and tackling the other (or in many ways a striking blow), the protective gear does not really protect the one getting hit.
I think the other danger of football is distraction, i.e. many young boys are taught going into pro football is a excellent career choice. If you can survive preparing yourself and get selected and still survive training, then by all means become an NFL player. However, pro bowl does not have many job openings (and most cannot qualify) and youngsters will be distracted away from career choices that have wider opportunities. We hear about some former NFL players that go on to successful careers after football, we don't hear from many other former NFL players that are broke.
Should football be outlawed? No but maybe let people know risks involved. Such legislation probably cause all sorts of bad fallout. I'd like to see US reduce its fascination with football. There are a lot of OTHER SPORTS besides football!
mfwright@batnet.com
The difference is the frequency, and exactly what constitutes a traumatic brain incident that might cause gradual damage. See another posters comments here for evidence of "heading" the ball in soccer causing long-term brain damage. And common sense hasn't been telling us all that much until fairly recently when this research got some big breaks.
Can't say that I agree with that at all. In the conference I played in, 10 teams probably 250-300 regular participants - I think there not more than a dozen guy who went on to play college football. And maybe 5 tops that played D-1.
Whether college football existed or not would not have had the slightest impact on my desire to play and I'd wager that would be equally as true for almost every player or fan I knew. Blue-chip talented players would probably choose to pursue basketball or baseball instead, but they make up an extremely small portion of the participants.
Vote Quimby.
I agree.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
The participants of Hunger Games and Roman Gladiators usually did not volunteer to participate. All NFL players volunteer to participate.
This has a science component in it.
No, dumb ass. Then they will have to change how they hit, and with how much energy. Instead of a game of brutes, it instantly become a game with a new layer of strategy. Just like it used to be.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I have had a hard time gathering my thoughts on this issue. I think I am finally ready to share my thoughts and feelings on the untimely demise of Junior Seau and the health and well being of football players the world over.
So here goes:
When I heard that this guy ate a lead salad it concerned me about as much as the market price for shark fin in China.
Glad we could have this talk.
This sig is not paradoxical or ironic.
Yes, let's ban it. After all, science never solved anything, and it won't solve this. Besides, I don't even like football.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
False. Many people have parlayed there football experience into careers.
Because people love football, and if you play football you are therefore trustworthy. Football is hard, because it's hard it means you can do anything.
So here is the VP position.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Use a better helmet:
http://www.araiamericas.com/default.aspx?pageid=57#/helmets/auto/gp-6rc
Jose T Oliveira Jr.
They get multi-million dollar contracts because they're exceptionally talented athlete celebrities. They're at or very near the peak of athletic ability, but there's probably 10 people out there just as capable for every 1 playing the game. I doubt you'd have much trouble at all finding people willing to get a concussion at $1,000 a shot, a tiny fraction of what these players make. Their willingness to accept injury is the least valuable thing about them.
No, the most valuable thing about these people is that they're known. Both known as talented athletes because those 10 others out there who are just as capable look the same as the 1,000 others out there who seem extremely talented until you look very closely and reach the limits of their training, possibly years into their career--and known by their fans, who are ultimately the bodies that pay for premium television, good seats, etc., just so their eyeballs can be sold to advertisers, who pay again to get a nicely-packaged demographic.
<xml><I><am><so><damn>Web 2.0</damn></so></am></I></xml>
I am not saying the repeated concussions are not contributing factors and need to be taken into account. I believe that, much like hockey players, there is a limit to how much abuse the brain can take. This should cause players to retire earlier.
The major emphasis and driving force in this discussion seems to be the issues of depression, violence and suicide in ex-football players. Lets take a look at the lives of football players;
1. From a young age they have been playing a game that means everything to them
2. They form bonds and relationships with their team mates similar to those of soldiers in combat.
3. They are encouraged to be aggressive ever day in practice and games.
Suddenly they retire and everything they lived for in the last twenty years is gone. They lose the football family, their aggression no longer acceptable and has no outlet, they can no longer to the thing they love. They are quickly in a very lonely dark place. Is it any wonder that retired players become depressed. The macho aspect of football may even interfere with players getting help as they do not want to be seen as weak. The posted article states that a few players have asked for help but did any of them or their families commit them to a psychiatric institute, or at least counseling, when they were in trouble? Combine situational depression with brain injury and one has a lethal combination.
I think that the demand for the players that don't have interest in playing at a college level would drop when the supporting column of college scholarship is removed. With less money going into the team and less pressure to play the game would probably lessen to the same popularity as high school baseball or basketball at best.
"Kids" aren't nearly as strong or fast as professional players. They aren't going to create sufficiently violent collisions on a regular basis.
Brain Damage causes Football.
Correlation is causation.
The price of freedom is eternal litigation.
Another one: sexy studs with an artificial V shape and padded muscles, crotch-highlighting pants, and bum-lifting underwear (the equivalent of womens' high heels).
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
Probably not.
High school players aren't as fast or strong. They'd have trouble causing sufficiently violent collisions.
As it is, I'm not aware of damage documented for College football players who did not play professionally.
Yeah, for nerds. Think of the force applied to brain tissue when you slam your head into a hard object at high velocity. Force, velocity, mass, inertia, brains. Tell me these aren't the building blocks of nerd interests.
So let players know and let them decide if they want to risk these long term injury for millions of dollars. If they wanted to stay perfectly safe, they could go work at Burger king for minimal wage.
Strong, heavy men charging at each other full power repeatedly does damage. Who'd have thought? Never saw that coming...
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
People are very bad at gauging risk/reward.
Therefore Hitler and the Nazis played football!
Some kids start playing football at age 5 in pop warner, so lets not pretend this is a hazard only borne by adults making informed choices. I played football in middle school/high school, and I bet I suffered some brain injury because of it. I wouldn't say i was adequately informed then of the potential risks, and I likely would have made a poor decision even if I were informed. My parents, on the other hand, would probably have loved to know the true risks of a sport as their baby boy was out there knocking heads. Many of us were lead to believe that modern helmets all but alleviated the risk of brain injury.
Honestly, kids and young adults are being pressured by parents, coaches, peers into playing a sport that is now known to cause brain damage, and Slashdot can do nothing but complain about professional athletes pay and make fun of dumb jocks.
Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. -- Susan Ertz
You have dudes that are 6.5 270lbs running around at 20mph and smashing in to each other.
Could you explain what you mean by the "supporting column of college scholarship"?
As I understand it, I just don't see that playing a role at all. Certainly there's no financial flow even in a trickle-down manner from college to HS. The HS I attended I think has turned out a grand total of of 4 D-1 scholarship FB players in the last 30 years. School budgets are as tight as they've ever been, so if that were a factor at all, the school would've the sport years ago.
It's more about tradition & community than anything. And we were a city of about 6000-7000 people without a great history of success (never won a state title), but on a home Friday night, there's always decent number of people who show up. I just can't imagine taking away college scholarships/college football would change that at all.
Vote Quimby.
Football has been crippling its victims for decades. It wasn't news when this documentary came out: http://mobilemojoman.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/movie-review-disposable-heroes-the-blood-guts-and-tears-side-of-football/
Nothing will change.
Obviously the drug of choice at the school was Mentats.
When someone says, "Any fool can see
All NFL players volunteer to participate.
I'd like to see a comparison outcomes for NFL players and their childhood peers. I.e., If the alternative to "volunteering" to significantly degrade their health and life expectancy is massive and disproportionate unemployment and/or incarceration.
I think the supporting column I speak of is more of the fact that parents encourage children to play football because it gives those children a chance at a scholarship, not that money trickles down directly. And I would imagine that the NFL being a big thing also helps inflate the worth of football in the eyes of parents. So I guess it's more of an injected helium stream than a supporting column.
In fact everyone everywhere at all times should be required by law to wear a helmet.
a good argument for kids to use on their parents as to why they should keep playing Starcraft 2 and not be playing sports :P
"...the US does have a policy of banning certain activities for the detrimental effects on willing participants."
Like boxing?
All that will change is that the players will be obliged to, if they want to play, sign some forms that release the organizations making money from liability.
blindly antisocialist = antisocial
I went to school with this person. I played football and basketball with this person. I went to parties with this person. Junior was a genuine good person. Genuine. The game did not make him great, his family, upbringing, good sense, hard work, his gifts and his dedication made him great. Football got to experience Junior not the other way around. I'm pretty comfortable saying that you're the selfish one here seemingly thinking you know what the fuck you're talking about and referring to with your accusatory tone and condemnation. Must be a pretty fucking simple world you find yourself in.. If Junior felt the overwhelming need/desire to end his life I can all but guarantee he was not of sound mind and body. No fucking way. I might suggest that you shut the fuck up and show some respect or, minimally, temper your opinion.
\r
All NFL players volunteer to participate.
I'd like to see a comparison outcomes for NFL players and their childhood peers. I.e., If the alternative to "volunteering" to significantly degrade their health and life expectancy is massive and disproportionate unemployment and/or incarceration.
That is a ridiculous jump. Even if that was true, you are saying there are only two paths: NFL or poverty/incarceration. Taking away one would force the person down the other.
I once had an argument with a US citizen. He bragged that you need protective gear to play American footy and alluded to the general ruggedness of US inhabitants. I countered that if a game gets too violent, you should revise the rules otherwise it isn't a game any more. My argument didn't catch on. I got the distinct impression that primordial sensation was the only justification for a sport for the lad in question. The whole experience made me understand US culture just a little bit better. If something is worth doing than it's worth overdoing it extremely.
I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
I would really like for the National Academic Decathlon to receive more attention than high school sports.
Here's a hint: most people can't get the answers right on Jeopardy, let alone Academic Decathlon. By contrast, sports can be understood at a rudimentary level even by dumb people. The potential audience is immensely larger, and so there's a lot more money in it. Would you pay $100 to watch the AcaDec national finals in person? I sure wouldn't.
Tackle is a lot more fun, though.
Well, at least I'm only six months behind the times :-/
But, seriously, it was just as dreadful as I feared it would be.
Is football not just another profession to train for? Do you think Universities should only teach classical liberal arts?
Agriculture schools and engineering came around later, because Universities are in place to train people to be contributing members of society. Football is as much a part of society as the Performing Arts, Political Science, Computer Science, and History.
And injuries are part of the game. It is a choice. A coal miner makes a choice. Even people in academia take risky trips to the bottom of oceans, tops of mountains, into volcanoes, etc...
0.1% is not what I call "many". Most high school footballers never play the game again, and yet that 99.9% have to deal with the long term injuries. (If you read the article, it describes an autopsied 18 year old who already had brain damage from middle school and high school football.) I don't it's worth it.... 1000-to-1 odds is a bad gamble.
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
Sorry to offend man... I do feel bad for the situation. I have a friend/coworker that also played ball with him, drank beers with him, and thinks I'm an asshole for my take on it (we talked yesterday about it over a beer). I love football/chargers, loved to watch him play, but I am trying to understand why someone would do something like that to themselves... This was and still is my opinion. on his motivations for committing suicide, which I believe is a selfish act for anyone to do. Some psychologists would crucify me for that statement but that is simply how I view it. My Grandfather had terminal cancer and was in intense pain for almost a year before he passed. We talked about his options and he strongly expressed the same belief that I held about suicide. It's a cop out. Taking one in the chest would be a really shitty way to do it (still better than cancer...), and I would need a pretty convincing argument in my head to do something like that in that way. I could see how the whole "my life is fucked up because my brain is damaged" could help someone convince themselves that death is a viable option. Especially if that death raises awareness about a perceived crisis (the crisis being that head injuries in football are ruining lives).
Anyway, I realize it's a sensitive time but I also don't think me sharing my opinion is worse than these articles calling for changes to the NFL less than 24 hours after the dude died. I value personal liberty above all and I think that guys like Jr., great men, would never be able to rise to prominence if we continue down this path of communal safety first, and don't hold people accountable for their own actions.
Colleges need football teams like fish need bicycles
A better analogy would be "colleges need football teams like congress need lobbyists". Lobbyists bring in tons of money and congress changes laws to make them happy. Much to the chagrin of most everyone else. They have all grown much more dependent on each other than fish and bicycles.
If you've suffered massive neurological damage rendering you a cognitive and emotional basket case, you still think the whole "he was selfish" tag applies? I can't quite figure out if your just sort of spouting some meaningless ideological line on suicide, or whether you really are a heartless and witless asshole.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
As I understand it, the rules in American football are such that a punt is (de facto) a turnover, and the shape of the ball has become more elongated to make kicking less effective than running and passing. The shape of a basketball has changed far less; it was originally a soccer ball (a sphere of circumference 69 cm) and is now a textured sphere of circumference 75.4 cm.
I've never suffered massive neurological damage so I wouldn't know. I did see him on TV after he retired though and he seemed pretty coherent. As I said above, I think suicide is a selfish act. I accept that not everyone agrees with that but it's how I feel about it for a variety of reasons. Kinda like you going apeshit on me for my post, we all have a right to our opinions, and I'm glad we still have open forums like /. to express them in. I guess I was hoping someone might read the personal experience that I shared and maybe think a little about how they view personal accountability, suicide, and mental illness; but apparently you aren't that martian...
All else equal, taking fighting away from hockey might increase the number of brain injuries. If you take away the players' ability to settle disputes by trading blows, they may decide to retaliate in another way, such as hard checks which involve much greater force and much higher potential for brain damage.
Don't these disputes tend to be caused by hard checks in the first place?
Disputes should be managed by sensible rules and responsible refs (and players). This will discourage both hard checks and the need to retaliate with fights or more hard checks.
Fighting is fairly unique to North American hockey, so the game can be played without it.
Is football not just another profession to train for? Do you think Universities should only teach classical liberal arts?
They don't grant degrees in "Football", and if players don't progress in some recognized educational pursuit, they cannot participate in sports. There is also no graduation requirement to participate in professional football.
Too bad they only considered the damage caused by playing football. I am sure there are more people damaged by just watching it.
Gotcha. I'm sure there are some for whom that is a motivation. And big dreams don't die easily. Could be I'm just too skewed by my personal experience. Could be I'm just too much of a pragmatic. I was good enough to play D-3 and yet I knew for sure by JV that I'd never be good enough to make the NFL, much less big time D-1 scholarship level. It didn't effect me in the slightest, but I'm sure for some with a whole other level of talent it would - so the only question is how many fall into either category.
I played baseball against a kid who was the best hitter I ever saw. I was a catcher & if I close my eyes, I can still here the sound of the bat on ball when he hit - it was different than every other hitter I ever saw. He literally got cup of coffee - called up to the majors for 2 games, 6 at bats. Had a nice minor league career, got to play & make some money doing it. But 6 MLB at bats.
I love sports, and am thrilled to start coaching my son in T-ball. Dreams are a great thing, but when it comes down to it, at some point the reality lesson will come and he'll understand just how long the odds are of winning the lottery of pro sports. A combination of truly rare freakish talent, luck and dedication. Because love of the game, the thrill of competition, the life lessons, team camaraderie and school spirit are all reasons to play the games. The chance at getting a free education won't be for him. If that were to happen, it would be a happy miracle.
Vote Quimby.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Well... outside of school, we'd sometimes get a small army of kids together and play a game colloquially known as "smear the queer," but that's a different matter.
Breakfast served all day!
No, it's not at the same level as your terribly misspelled example sentence, mainly because my sentence is valid English per the grammatical rules in place even if they are awkwardly used.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_VOC0zYkJU Any questions?
College Bowl (G.E. College Bowl) ran for 12 years with moderate success on network TV. No amount of publicity, no format, will make a serious quiz show anywhere near as popular as a good sporting event.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
You are misusing logic. If we went by that standard, nothing would be responsible for anything. It is reasonable to assume that thousands of head-on collisions would damage the brain.
That might be a reasonable assumption but, assuming we are talking about American football here, another reasonable assumption is that it attracts people with more violent natures who may already have suffered brain damage due to trauma before they started playing. To really show that American Football causes brain damage you need to show that players start without brain damage and develop it while playing and that there is an established mechanism by which this occurs. There is an established mechanism but, as far as I can tell, no evidence of the initial condition of players. Without both what you have is a suggestion that there might be a relation but not evidence of it.
If it happens in adults, isn't it also likely to happen in kids? They may be hard-headed at times, but still ...
Yes but does it happen in adults? An alternative conclusion to that study - given the available information - is that professional football players are not as good at memory, planning etc. compared to elite non-contact sport athletes. A far better control group would have been young football players who are new to the sport because different sports select different traits.
...creation basically says "god made chickens"...if you decide to take that specific piece of the bible literally...then chickens came first.
Ah but the bible does not say how god made chickens. Suppose he just created an egg and waited for it to hatch?
Two 250 pound men running into each other at roughly 20 miles per hour and cracking skulls. What do think is going to happen, petunias popping out of their asses?
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
Do you need to study to know that?
Ban advertising from sports. Bam, problem solved.
You're allows your opinion and the right to be an insufferable twat.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Badminton is totally the shit to play but not to watch so that's out. I did watch a Madden (on Xbox) tournament on ESPN and it was awkward, embarrassing, and insulting to gamers. I'm 99% sure the winner was on meth too so that one's out. I've got an idea! Dance Dance Revolution freestyle tournaments instead of the NFL. There's only one single video on all of youtube of someone doing a back flip during one. I mean, come on!
Of course watching football causes brain damage.
Football on slashdot is for everyone:
-Those who want to complain inanely about the name as though it somehow mattered
-Those who complain about marijuana being illegal yet want to ban violent sports
-Those who hate sports, probably because they...
a) were tortured by sports players in high school and hold a grudge against activities in response
b) are physically unable to participate and feel the need to mock those who are
c) need to feel morally and intellectually superior to those who enjoy disgusting and barbaric physical competition
-and the ten or so of us who have fun watching and/or playing sports
That is a ridiculous jump. Even if that was true, you are saying there are only two paths: NFL or poverty/incarceration. Taking away one would force the person down the other.
What a great answer to those campaigning to end poverty. "But this will force people into professional football"!
rugby football
Yesh, the poking in the brains of footballers part ;)
Hum? Why would it be worse when it's wet?
c++;
Watching football wasn't good for growing my brain, ignoring the football on the TV and coding and playing computer games at the same time was good for my brains ablity to ignore distraction, Playing football, soccer was good for my brain and body, . Heading the ball causing brain truma. Which is why former England captain Gary Liniker (sp) was famous for never wanting to head the ball.
The heading made me think that this was realated to the "Real" Football. What Americans call it Soccer. Only when I continued reading further, I've realized that it's about "American" Football.
That is a sweeping, insupportable statement. Yes, the big stars get large contracts and *might* live their lives comfortably, but just as at the college level, a lot of NFL (and most CFL?) players end up with very little money.
These are not financial wizards; they're men given a free pass in virtually every other facet of their lives and become rather reliant on their retinue of hangers-on. Once the money is gone (helped to disappear by 'friends', women, and most especially family), all they have to show for their glorious achievements is *maybe* a bogus degree in General Studies or Sports Management (oh, irony) but usually just a broken body and brain that made colleges and owners money.
It depends on the material, and the condition of the ball; but the added water can increase the mass of a soccer ball by a decent amount. A touch of dew on one of the fancy synthetics is likely almost irrelevant; but a somewhat worn leather specimen can get downright soggy.
Given the number of headers across the careers of serious soccer types, it probably isn't the biggest variable; but every little bit hurts...
Make the NFL touch football only.
If not us, who? If not now, when?
There are "letterman" tags. The educational pursuit is the gen-ed requirement. All degrees have to take classes outside their discipline. Is there a graduation requirement for most jobs?
... this could mean that violent acceleration/deceleration, straining and energetic impacts are detrimental to living tissue. Do ya think?
Yes, they are getting brain damage. No, this isn't really a surprise to anyone. But I have to ask, isn't this why they get paid the big bucks? No one is forcing them to play this game. A quick breakdown finds that your average NFL player makes 1848% what Average Joe does. And no, that's not a typo.
Average US salary: $41,673.83
Avergage NFL Salary: $1.9 million
Median NFL Salary: $770,000.00
Average NFL career: 3.5 years
In that 3.5 years the average NFL player, at MEDIAN salary, will earn $2.7 million or roughly the amount that Average Joe will pull in after 65 years. (160 years if the NFL player gets the average salary.) IMHO they are selling their health later in life for the riches now.
If evidence of football is causing brain damage, proof of it may cause heads to just explode.
In Rugby Football people tackle with their shoulders. "High" tackles are banned. In American Football it looks like players run headfirst into each other as part of the blocking. It's a fundamentally different approach, and is likely to lead to different injuries.
Football players are more likely to suffer brain injury than Rugby players due to heading the ball - which has been researched and does cause brain damage. It's the act of heading the ball doing the damage though, not the contact nature of the sport.
Maybe you need to be brain-damaged in the first place in order to actually like American football and become a professional player?
Just sayin'...
It will help a great deal if they know what those risks are exactly. That's why the research is needed. It is fairly recent that we have understood the 2nd concussion syndrome and we are now just learning that a great many hits, all short of causing a concussion at the time, can add up to serious problems that may not become apparent until years later. In summary, until now they had no idea they were at risk for that.
If, as fully informed young adults they still choose to play, that would be their decision but colleges and the NFL could come into serious liability if they understate or dismiss the dangers. Willful blindness also leaves them liable. High school and below is quite another matter. There, parents and schools are the responsible parties.
Brain damage causes football perhaps?
So getting violently slammed into the ground repeatedly by very large people can cause brain damage? The hell you say!
They should test boxers for brain damage also. Maybe there's a pattern
...isn't going to come from the NFL. It's going to come from college or high school lawsuits and trickle up from there.
This just in: Using a computer all day causes eye strain. This articles is ridiculousness, of course bashing your head against something repeatedly causes brain damage. Did we NOT think that? It's like saying "Dishwashers develop hardened callouses via repeated hot plate exposure." It just comes with the job, if you're worried about brain damage be a cheerleader.
In fact, I think that when the country finally wakes up and realizes that the right thing to do is to abandon violent sports like American football, rugby, and hockey (at least, hockey as it is commonly played today) for good, it will be a huge net positive for America and, indeed, for the world.
I don't know about that.
We humans are fundamentally a pretty violent bunch, and we've now ritualized combat to such an extent that it is pretty benign (yes, brain damage is bad, but how about getting stuck with a short-sword in gladiatorial combat? Or battling the rival clan next door?)
If we outlaw/abandon our violent sports, what will replace them? Where will our violent, tribal instincts find an outlet? I'd rather have millions of humans get their violence rocks off by (a) by proxy and (b) via a *relatively* safe sport played by well-compensated players.
In short, how will we get our violence jollies? In a more safe or less safe manner, and for how many people?
With the first link, the chain is forged.
Jocks need to make a living too. A few casualties is nothing compared to the billions of dollars in pay.
If they minded getting punch-drunk, they would have found another career. It's an acceptable risk.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."