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Methane Producing Dinosaurs May Have Changed Climate
Hugh Pickens writes "The Telegraph reports that huge plant-eating dinosaurs called sauropods may have produced enough greenhouse gas by breaking wind to alter the Earth's climate. Scientists believe that, just as in cows, methane-producing bacteria aided the digestion of sauropods by fermenting their plant food. 'A simple mathematical model suggests that the microbes living in sauropod dinosaurs may have produced enough methane to have an important effect on the Mesozoic climate,' says study leader Dr Dave Wilkinson. 'Indeed, our calculations suggest that these dinosaurs could have produced more methane than all modern sources — both natural and man-made — put together.' The key factor is the total mass of the animals which included some of the largest animals to walk the Earth, such as Diplodocus, which measured 150 feet and weighed up to 45 tons. Medium-sized sauropods weighed about 20 tons and lived in herds of up to a few tens of individuals per square kilometer so global methane emissions from the animals would have amounted to around 472 million tons per year, the scientists calculated. Sauropods alone may have been responsible for an atmospheric methane concentration of one to two parts per million (ppm), say the scientists and studies have suggested that the Earth was up to 10C (18F) warmer in the Mesozoic Era. ''The Mesozoic trend to sauropod gigantism led to the evolution of immense microbial vats unequaled in modern land animals. Methane was probably important in Mesozoic greenhouse warming. Our simple proof-of-concept model suggests greenhouse warming by sauropod megaherbivores could have been significant in sustaining warm climates.'"
really, do we have to get to discussing dinosaur farts for people to figure out what pseudoscience is? Could this research have had actual research papers and not just been pure speculation?
...we produce more radioactive fallout than all other animals put together... Hmmmm...
We've got politicians doing the same thing. Tell me something new.
In addition to being 18 degrees warmer, scientists also concluded the climate was 43% more stinky
So to fight global warming, everyone holds in their farts, until we get spontaneous human combustion?
The world today is very different than the world millions of years ago. There were a lot more trees back then, which provided more shade for the ground and more oxygen in the air. It's not Methane alone that is affecting the planet, it's ALL of the ABOVE!
-- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
I wish for general audiences, science reporters would give the "whole" picture - meaning along with this story, also mention that other sources of methane and greenhouse gases.
AND ...
- notice the word "suggests".
Now, we're going to start hearing that the dinosaurs did more to harm the atmosphere and caused more global warming than we ever did.
Manmade Global Warming is a Hoax! they'll say.
Then again, maybe this is a lesson to us. We see the output of these creatures and what they did to themselves and we'll come to the conclusion that maybe we should learn from them and take care.
N'ah. We'll all ignore everything. And if Global Climate change does get bad enough where it starts affecting the Western World - namely us in the US - then we'll just put the blame on others, bury our heads in the sand, continue life as usual, say "See China isn't doing anything!", and fuck the rest of the World.
I'm sick and tired of everyone blaming the Democrats for Climate change...
Huh? Oh, those Dinosaurs - sorry.
There are two ways to take that into account then I guess.
Either the tree hugger way like you assume it's intended to be taken.
Or as the "Well... the world didn't end last time and it was apparently even WORSE then! Let's keep on trucking!"
But on another note, given slashdot's accuracy ratio on summary-to-original-article, how the hell could you possibly know what it's actually about.
Careful citizen. At the most-recent Warming Conference a scientist proposed labeling climate-deniers as "mentally ill" and sending them to hospitals to be cured of this deficiency. She got unanamious applause.
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
I made a reference to dinosaur farts changing climate several stories ago in an anti-human-induced-climate-change post. I believe it was the story about wind turbines affecting climate. Point is still valid: Anything on this planet is going to affect the climate in some way. The current climate is what is "natural" to Earth for the current moment. Humans affect climate the same as dinosaur farts. The planet will self-correct when necessary.
Climate change zealots need to find a new hobby. News flash here is that the climate is going to change no matter what you do, so your religion is baseless.
So you're claiming that humans themselves produce radioactive fallout in a fashion comparable to how ruminants produce methane? I hope not, because that would make you appear a bigger idiot than, say, Glenn Beck or Rick Santorum, and nobody wants that, not least being Beck or Santorum themselves for stealing their limelight.
when you think about it. The largest living terrestrial animal African bush elephant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_organisms only weighs about 7 t (15,000 lb). The fact that these sauropods can weigh up to 45 tons is mind blowing. I couldn't fathom trying to move 45 tons on land let alone in the water.
http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822(12)00329-6 in which the authors thank Lynn Margulis and say that she would 'savoured" fart jokes. "We thank the late Lynn Margulis for infecting us with her microbial enthusiasm — she would have savoured the notion of sauropods as walking methanogen vats.
"Asleep at the switch? I wasn't asleep, I was drunk!" -- Homer
It would be nice if we could go one day without an article about (or related to) climate change.
Being fine with being modded down - and stating it preemptively - might be construed as a problem with dogmatism. I hear there's a twelve-step program for that.
No point reducing fossil fuels,etc
1st we must all take steps to contain and eliminate farts
I propose a tube attached to a bag on one end and the other end up the ass
You pay taxes as per the amount of farts produced by you
Or maybe not. Seems pretty much any post with *may* in the title could or could not have happened. Take your pick. So what is point, then, of these postings? Can anyone stand here and tell me what really happened millions and millions of years ago? Of course not. It is all just conjecture. Probably wild guesses at best. These posts are useless fluff.
Pebbles may cause rashes.
Snakes may cure cancer.
The color blue may cure baldness in small men.
I'm sure you can come up with examples that are even more ridiculous. Best thing about using *may* is that nobody can dispute you. Great to be a scientist, isn't it!
Another one ignoring logical processes to come up with a possible solution.
please reason us through why this cannot be possible, and use known scientific facts to do so please.
I'm nto going to read the article. This is just another tree hugger trying to prove global warming is caused by people by showing it has been done before. I'm fine with being modded down.
For a guy who picks a nickname of 'SensitiveMale', you really like getting kicked in the balls, huh.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
No, it's a book, Critical Thinking for Dummies.
Well, what do you call people who make up their own reality which can not be penetrated by facts? And lay off the persecution complex, it does not become you.
Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
So farts really are deadly! Well I, for one, refuse to fart any more.
And your palls at the Heartland Institute have been putting up billboards comparing scientists who are researching AGW to the Unibomber.
So what?
I'm thinking more along the lines of "Dino" hugger.
It's dinodoo and yet another agenda 21 global warming propaganda piece. Unless there was a 3000 ft layer of continously setcating dinosaurs of course, you never know what even more insane bullshit the climate fearmongeprs come up with.
OK! OK! OK! Enough with bashing conservatives at every opportunity.
I'm conservative (most of us over 40 are), yet I agree global warming is a problem and it can be attributed to human activity.
However, "cute" articles like this ("Oh look little Tommy - dinosaurs, and it's about Global Warming, so I can feel good about myself reading it) are nothing more than fluff pieces that make self-righteous Eurotrash feel informed, and your post is just more inane karma whoring.
Seriously, if China and India get to exempt themselves from the Kyoto protocol, then yes, fuck them.
http://www.infowars.com/climate-change-skepticism-a-sickness-that-must-be-treated-says-professor/
http://www.infowars.com/climate-alarmist-calls-for-burning-down-skeptics-homes/
http://www.prisonplanet.com/global-warming-alarmist-forcibly-tattoo-man-made-climate-change-deniers.html
“Let’s start keeping track of them -- let’s make them pay”
It isn't funny, Citizen. These hate filled people worry me far more than DHS types.
The problem of dinosaurs causing climate change has been around for 150 million years and we haven't fixed it yet?
This research stinks.
Seriously? The unibomber was (in his mentally ill way) against science... he was sending bombs to scientists and engineers.
that's funny, i call them "Most People"
If I ever get that Time Machine i've been working on to work properly, I know what era im not bothering to visit now.
>>>>>Well, what do you call people who make up their own reality which can not be penetrated by facts?
>>
>>I call them Republicans
I call them Obama voters:
- "He has assasinated 3 americans, started two new wars w/o permission from the People (via Congress), called Bush's debt presidency to be "unpatriotic" and then added almost 5 trillion himself, signed the ACTA, asked Congress to add the indefinite jailtime w/o trial provision, et cetera."
And their reply: No he didn't. Obama's doing the best job he can. It's all Bush's fault and you're just racist. (Yes this is an actual quote from my facebook.) Perfect example of a person who can't wake-up to reality.
To be honest I hope Obama DOES win re-election. I want the next four years to destroy anything left of his legacy.
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
More of this global warming fairy tale stuff that boils down to name calling when smart people wont fall for it eh? All you have to do is read the literature to know its a fairytale.
She's way out of line there. Climate deniers are stupid, not crazy, and you can't cure stupid.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
"Medium-sized sauropods weighed about 20 tons and lived in herds of up to a few tens of individuals per square kilometer so global methane emissions from the animals would have amounted to around 472 million tons per year, the scientists calculated." How could they possibly know the population density? not to be an ass, just asking honestly
"You are charged with preaching wrongful, pernicious, and misleading doctrine about anthropogenic global warming."
The ridiculous theory assumes that dinosaurs actually existed.
I call them "religious people". Oh, and sometimes deniers of AGW.
Some say that the mass extinction which was allegedly caused by the meteorite that hit Central America was in fact the result of a global conflagration caused by a group of teenaged stegosaurs on a camping trip who thought it would be funny to light one off...
How's this:
Since the dinosaurs never existed, because God put the bones in the ground for us to find and remind us we will one day die and go to heaven, it's easier than ever to say that climate change doesn't, and never did, exist.
Am I doing it right?
-
What percentage of people that believe in Global Warming do you really think hold that belief because of facts? Given the very low percentage, there is a very good chance that you are not one of them.
Basically, what you have is a bunch of children debating something in a hostile manner - calling names and pointing out who is dumb or stupid for believing what they believe.
I posit that less than 1% of you will actually try to discuss this in a manner that is intended to illuminate the nay-sayer that you are confronting.
I further posit that the reason for such a low percentage is that most of you lack the understanding to articulate what the real reasons for climate change are and have only taken the position to be on the "winning side" of the argument so that you look smarter than you actually are.
Thats called 'preaching to the choir'
Good-bye
You start using feet then proceed to tons (metric or US), then proceed to square kilometers...
If you don't want to use the standard measurement system for all the measures, at least be consistent! Don't use standard units mixed up with US units. It just makes a mess.
The vast majority of people in the world has no fucking idea how much 150 feet is!
Give me a fart please, it just ridiculous.
Go and observe sun!
It's nonsense, while individually sauropods are huge. The total biomass of sauropods is unlikely to be anywhere near that of cattle. There is zero evidence to support claims, because there is no evidence that supports sauropod populations that high.
the history of the MAFIAA extended so far back in history. Maybe they are the root cause of the current climate changes. A hypothesis as believable as many of the alternate hypothesis bruited by the alarmists.
There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
I think you missed this one It compares those who believe in climate change to terrorists.
Yeah, yeah, and Ted Nugent got unanimous applause for insinuating that he or someone else would assassinate the President. Hyperbole often tends to cross lines of appropriate discussion, sometimes causing actual offense, but let's not give credence to it by pretending it's more than it is.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
To be honest I hope Obama DOES win re-election. I want the next four years to destroy anything left of his legacy.
This is the problem with Americans today. Instead of desiring a bright, hopeful, prosperous future, we instead want one where the people we dislike bring us into ruin just so we can say "I told you so."
You probably are right - Hanlon's razor pretty much dictates that it is based on an inability to examine facts and evaluated sources rather than on some pathology. And the propaganda put out by Heartland, Watts and the like is so much more simple and palatable, so hey, why not gobble it up.
Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
(Please read the entire post before calling it flamebait...)
That's interesting, because at the most recent Sex-aholics Conference, I proposed labeling people opposed to blowjobs as "mentally ill" and sending them to hospitals to be cured of this deficiency. And I too got unanimous applause. From your mom, since she was the only attendant to the "Sex-aholics Conference" that I held in her bedroom.
What is the point of the above drivel you might ask? My point is simply that, just because a bunch of people get together and call it a "conference", doesn't mean the opinions they spout reflect upon anyone other than themselves. And you have not given us any reason to believe that your "Warming Conference" extended outside your mother's basement.
Not saying you're wrong, only that you've not given us a reason to believe you.
So the dinosaurs caused their own global warming and everything worked out well for them. Why is everyone up in such a bunch of it now?
Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
He's pretty much in line with his Republican pals here. Making "letting Obama fail" your sole stated political goal is borderline treasonous. Well, I watch it from a distance, but it is sad to see such a promising, yet shortlived experiment like the US fail.
Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
I first heard about this idea over a decade ago as a possible hypothesis for dinosaur extinction. I believe a paper was written up by someone at UC Santa Barbara and I learned of it on college geology field trips.
It was not discussed in the context of "global warming" at that time--it was just stated that the methane gas could have affected the climate enough to have directly or indirectly prompted a mass extinction. We tended to favor the impact theory (as evidenced by the KT boundary) as a more likely explanation, but the idea of dinosaur farts affecting climate has been around for a long time.
Oh great! Next thing you know someone will get attacked in public restaurant by a Global Warming activist for eating frijoles!
Huge Americans known as Gastropods may be emitting enough methane out of their asses to alter the Earth's climate.
Nevermind global warming.
I think scientists can sell the threat better by claiming the world will die in a method of dino-farting under cloud covers
Wish I had Mod points, +5 in my book.
sudo make me a sandwich
I live near many dairy farms. Should I be worried?
Having had discussion with climate denier, they make pretty as much sense as evolution denier. They always bring up retarded point already debunked 10000 time.
Mind you scientist bringing and investigating element falsifying climate change/AGW theory do not belong to that category. In that "denialist" category I put every single people which have no clue whatsoever about the climatologist model, or data, but just jump on the denialism bandwagon. Which is pretty much everybody you can see online denying AGW with a fair degree of certainty. You can recognize them easily, first they were denying there could be a warming, then they were denying there is a warming, recentely they switched to accuse a bunch of other phenomenon and move the goalpost every time. Now they are denying that the impact will be big.
Real scientist having a go at falsifying the theory ? Good. Bunch of idiot denying what real scientist found out because it is inconvennient to them ? In the same bag as holocaust or evolution denialism.
The problem with climate change is the rate. The dinosaurs, were here for 160 MILLION years. The amount of time it took for the type of climate change the research is suggesting (due to excrement) is hard to agree with. There could have been a lot of other naturally contributing factors in that timescale.
The amount of climate change brought about in the past 100 years, however, is largely due to anthropogenic emissions. People consuming resources, driving, industry, cows (yes meat production and transportation as well as dairy farm methane), depletion of natural carbon sinks, irresponsible land use and the list goes on.
So stop trying to push climate change off as a totally natural occurrence that we have nothing to worry about. The earth's climate has never remained the same for long, and yes it's had plenty of warm and cold spells in the past but never, ever have we been able to find that rate of change occurring over the course of a measly 100 years. This is the worrisome part. People need to accept that we have changed the course of climate on this planet at a rate never seen before and the earth will continue to warm unless we start changing the way we live. And soon.
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
Say, aren't you that overly obvious troll who poses as a conservative?
If it is, it doesn't matter if the estimated methane output 150 million years ago is 100% correct. Its effect on the climate would still be unpredictable.
Set your phasers on "funky"!
The fact that you had to explain that should say a lot. But it won't.
But on another note, given slashdot's accuracy ratio on summary-to-original-article, how the hell could you possibly know what it's actually about.
Here is a link to the original article.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Say, aren't you that overly obvious troll who poses as a conservative?
Yeah - the dead giveaway is that an actual conservative is far more obnoxious.
Funny enough. The Soviets did the same thing to "revolutionary reactionists" or the people who didn't believe in the glories of the motherland. Then they decided that sending them off to gulags or killing them was better.
Om, nomnomnom...
Hyperbole?
She wrote a ~20 page scientific paper on the topic of labeling climate deniers as mentally ill. And got applauded for it. This wasn't just some off-the-cuff remark.
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
That's funny... all I heard was Nugent claiming he would be dead or in jail. I kinda thought there could be a lot of other ways one could end up dead or in jail... and since Nugent didn't mention Obama being dead, assassinating the president isn't the most logical one.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Seriously. (Picture)
Not that I'm pro-Obama (I don't really like any of your presidents in recent history), but I don't get this line of reasoning:
He has assasinated 3 americans
Well, no, he didn't. His orders led to the death of three "Americans" (I prefer US citizens), but couldn't you say the same about every president who has started a war where US soldiers have died? Why are these deaths particularly worse?
Not to mention how apparently killing thousands of innocent civilians is apparently OK, but three(!) US citizens is terrible? To me, the death of innocent people is equally wrong, regardless of their country of origin.
Dilbert RSS feed
He was shot dead. That's a pretty epic fail. In any case if you think the US wasn't a corporation-run state before 2009 you're delusional.
Also, history. Whatever numbnut came up with that simplistic "corporate state in the fascist sense" = "run by corporations in the civil law sense" bullshit, anyway? That's missing whole layers of ideology and paints a completely wrong picture of what "corporate" meant back then.
Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
There are loons on both sides. You should read what Richard Littlejohn, a Rush Limbaugh wannabe who writes for the UK Daily Mail, says about climate scientists all the time.
Only humans are the problem! I refuse to share credit with some overgrown reptiles.
When taken together with his prior claim that someone needs to shoot Obama, it actually does come off that way. Were they unrelated statements? Maybe. Was he trying to carefully thread the needle between legal expression and incitement to violence? Probably. Does he really believe someone should kill the President? I doubt it.
And look, that was just a recent popular example. I'm sure you can find more, less well known (though equally as obscure as cpu6502's) examples of people making exaggerated claims about the opposition. Turn on FOX News for any given 5 minutes if you need help finding them.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
You guys could really team up with the Evangelicals when it comes to a rampant, unfounded persecution complex. Reality, it is out there....
Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
When are we just going to admit that "They" have finally killed the freedom of speech in this country. It doesn't matter what your opinion is, how intelligent you are, or what you believe, you no longer have the "right" to believe it, unless you threaten to rally a few hundred people together with clubs and smash windows, then you can believe anything you want to.
I must be missing something here, because I'm struggling to figure out what the difference is between plants going through the digestive tracts of ruminants, where bacterial flora break down the carbohydrates, cellulose and hemi-cellulose into carbon dioxide, methane and other gases, and natural decay/composting, where bacterial flora break down the carbohydrates, cellulose and hemi-cellulose into carbon dioxide, methane and other gases.
Is the ratio of gases vastly different between ruminant digestion and 'natural' decay? Do dinosaur farts have a much higher methane-to-CO2 ratio than, say, a peat marsh does? Or a forest? Did the existence of ruminants change the landscape in a way that lowered or raised background, "natural decay caused" methane production? And how certain can we be that the intestinal flora of sauropods were the same as those of cows and antelope today? Reptile digestion differs from mammalian digestion today - why wouldn't it be different 65 million years ago?
It's an interesting thought experiment, but considering it's not easily falsifiable, not so scientific. Sounds like another way to jump on the climate change bandwagon without all that pesky real-world data to deal with.
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Alarmists.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Who (name) said what (quote) where (place) when (date)?
But at least the people who modded you "+5 Informative") demonstrated what passes as facts in climate deniers camp. And since advanced enough self-deception is indistinguishable from genuine mental illness, perhaps we should forgive any real of imaginary person who confuses the two.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
And the hugging is just the foreplay.
I mean seriously, I read about this shit in contact kids or boys life 20 years ago.
Well in that case...
If this person can write a 20 page paper, complete with clear and concise arguments for her position (something denialists are incapable of doing), maybe there's some merit to it? Sure, you say "it says denialists are mentally ill and require brainwashing", but you can rephrase anything to put it into a bad light. Given how often things that you support are successfully put into a negative light, you of all people should know that. And it just hurts your credibility when you stoop to those same tactics.
I don't call them mentally ill and demand they be "cured". Of course, I wouldn't call that lady a "scientist" either.
Lay off the persecution complex... he says, while persecuting people who disagree with him.
Doesn't matter how wrong someone is. Nobody deserves to be subjected to a "reeducation camp". Unless of course you want something equivalent of the the German Stasi enforcing environmental regulation.
Life is not for the lazy.
I think you missed this one It compares those who believe in climate change to terrorists.
And I guess YOU missed the meme the alarmists are propagating claiming that "client change deniers" are "condemning our children to greenhouse gas ovens."
It compares them to genocidal dictators.
"Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
--- Jerry Garcia
Seriously? The unibomber was (in his mentally ill way) against science... he was sending bombs to scientists and engineers.
The "Uni" in Unabomber (sic) stood for Universities. The A was for airports. There's a third component, too, I think, but I can't recall it.
That's name calling. I cited threats.
I have to do that anonymously because hate filled slashdotters abuse the moderation system when they encounter non-warmist views.
They would destroy forests, fart all the time and breathe fire! Not to mention that asteroid just a few years later went SMASH! right into their destructive kingdom. So the moral of all of this is that everything can change climate, but who the hell cares if there's going to be an asteroid coming to crash down on earth, wiping almost all of existence and nearly permanently covering the world into an iceland (or greenland, however you like to see it).
Well, A cow does on average releases 100 kg of Methane per year. In total this would beat out the dinosaurs by far. Evolution may not be so smart after all. But hey, we need the cows.
The obvious solution therefore, is to simply have climate change theorists stop exhaling. If you want to help, just shut up and plant a tree.
All this talk of increased CO2 is obviously not helping!
A global warming science at its best.
If I had mod points. This would get a -1 Offtopic. The Republican jab was an off topic joke, you decided to reply with all sorts of crap that has nothing to do with dinosaur farts. I, sir, am only interested in the sweet stink of dinosaur anus.
He has assasinated 3 americans
Well, no, he didn't. His orders led to the death of three "Americans" (I prefer US citizens), but couldn't you say the same about every president who has started a war where US soldiers have died? Why are these deaths particularly worse?
I'm not 100% caught up on current events, but wasn't one of the Americans explicitly targeted by the military, despite knowing that he was a US citizen? The proper course of action would have been capture and trial, not "kill on sight with hellfire missiles".
Not to mention how apparently killing thousands of innocent civilians is apparently OK, but three(!) US citizens is terrible? To me, the death of innocent people is equally wrong, regardless of their country of origin.
Noble sentiments, but they ignore thousands of years of tribalism. When the tribal leader starts throwing his own tribesmen into the volcano, you know something's wrong.
applauded for it.
Presumably by everyone in the audience. I'm curious whether it was a rousing ovation or a polite "maybe if we golf-clap she'll go away happy", but either way, they didn't jeer at her for being a loon. They tacitly approved of her lunacy.
He's pretty much in line with his Republican pals here. Making "letting Obama fail" your sole stated political goal is borderline treasonous. Well, I watch it from a distance, but it is sad to see such a promising, yet shortlived experiment like the US fail.
Is the same true of someone who said "I don't like how Florida counted votes or that the Supreme Court didn't do what I wanted them to, so George Bush is not my president"?
In a democracy, you have to accept the results even if you lose. In a democracy you don't scream "fraud" just because you lost.
Be careful about throwing around words like "treason" (and "terrorism") just because you want to sound loud and powerful and savor the taste of outrage. Are you so absolutely certain those words could never, ever be applied to you?
Everybody gets what the majority deserves.
You know, persecution complexes can be solved via re-education. If there are too many people for normal avenues, camps of some sort might have to be made.
Of course it is possible.
There is in fact a perfect analogy. This is analogous to how oxygen producing cyanobacteria changed the world. Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxygenation_Event
It may not be true here for methane, but one cannot dismiss the idea that readily.
Just a thought.
I don't remember the Democrats running a platform of pure, 100% obstruction, pereat mundi, during the Bush years. Spot the difference?
Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
Large numbers of herbivores, are consistent across the fossil record. As are billions of plant eating insects and zillions of methane producing bacteria. Therefore the methane product should be relatively consistent, and constant element in the climate. Since the climate swings between a relatively defined temperature band, the methane is obviously accounted for in the system making this a non-story.
What the article says is that they assumed dinosaurs produced methane. They assumed the amount of methane. They assumed the climate behaves exactly as it would today. They assumed that their models are correct.
"He has assasinated 3 americans, started two new wars w/o permission from the People (via Congress), called Bush's debt presidency to be "unpatriotic" and then added almost 5 trillion himself, signed the ACTA, asked Congress to add the indefinite jailtime w/o trial provision, et cetera."
This is the best you can come up with? Fuck off, troll.
You cited threats, but there were none, except the moronic misrepresentations in those strawman articles.
--Jeremy
Jesus was a liberal
That's funny... all I heard was Nugent claiming he would be dead or in jail. I kinda thought there could be a lot of other ways one could end up dead or in jail... and since Nugent didn't mention Obama being dead, assassinating the president isn't the most logical one.
How stupid do you have to pretend to be to believe this?
Nugent was full of shit anyway; everybody knows it. If he weren't, he'd be in jail now.
--Jeremy
Jesus was a liberal
Does this mean dinosaurs are terrorists? http://politics.slashdot.org/story/12/05/05/156234/panetta-labels-climate-change-a-national-security-threat
And will the US will be declaring war on dinosaurs? ...
Sadly, I suspect it will
One small thing; If these "mathematical models" have anything to do with assuming Sauropods farted proportionally as much as industrial cows, I'd politely disagree and want more proof. Sauropods ate what they were designed to eat; most cows do not. If they take a grass fed and naturally pastured cow, if not wild (not corn and grain fed and stressed to the max) and calculate based on the amount of flatulence those cows produce, I'd be more convinced. There's a reason conventional cows have to be given daily antibiotics in their "feed" and that's because they shouldn't be eating that food in the first place. Affect bowels? You bet your gassy, grain fed ass it does.
To you, sure, but to Americans a single death is a tragedy while a thousand deaths is just a statistic.
Who (name) said what (quote) where (place) when (date)?
"Scepticism regarding the need for immediate and massive action against carbon emissions is a sickness of societies and individuals which needs to be "treated", according to an Oregon-based professor of "sociology and environmental studies". Professor Kari Norgaard compares the struggle against climate scepticism to that against racism and slavery in the US South."
At the Planet Under Pressure conference
google ffs
six
How stupid do you have to believe that Nugent is threatening anyone? You tell me. By the way, Jesus wasn't a liberal.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Actually, I take it back: he was a liberal... a classical liberal. Definitely did not believe in the righteousness of human government.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
reminds me of the sign in the Customer Service office that handles the Truckers, "Customer Service is like making love to a Raptor, you don't stop when you're satisfied. You stop when the Raptor is satisfied." With apologies to Mr. Spielberg.
The Telegraph reported it and that particular rag is known for fudging more than a few things here and there. I would say nothing to see here, move along.
first they warmed us with their farts. now they are warming us again with their fossil fuel remains. those stinking dinosaurs burn me up! :)
But yet the grandparent poster is at +5 Insightful for failing to google.
Proves out my decade-long tagline every time. People are fucking idiots, and any pretension of the posters on this site having higher than average intelligence is laughable.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
Is the same true of someone who said "I don't like how Florida counted votes or that the Supreme Court didn't do what I wanted them to, so George Bush is not my president"?
Except that is a legitimate gripe. Bush would have lost a state wide recount. The Supreme Court violated it's neutrality to make a political appointment. That's seriously bad for your country.
In a democracy, you have to accept the results even if you lose. In a democracy you don't scream "fraud" just because you lost.
No, but it will always be the losers who report fraud. The winners generally won't because, you know, they won. If you dismiss any claims of fraud because they come from "sore losers" then you've already conceded that you have no interest in fair or honest elections.
Be careful about throwing around words like "treason" (and "terrorism") just because you want to sound loud and powerful and savor the taste of outrage.
When people want the country to fail economically so they can be proven right, that's pretty damn close to treason. Whatever happened to making the best of it? If a significant number of people in your country hate the "other" people so much that they would rather everybody suffer than allow them to succeed, then you country is rotten to the core and will fail no matter what anyone does.
Fanatically anti-fanatical
That's why I eat so much beef. We should prevent the cows from causing another Ice Age. Take that vegetarians!
About anything having to do with the climate!?
Bwahahahahaha!!!!
It would be, if he were in an area of American jurisdiction and not leading a military force against an ally. When you're engaged in military operations, you have to take the chance that weapons will be fired at you, including missiles from drones.
Noble sentiments, but they ignore thousands of years of tribalism. When the tribal leader starts throwing his own tribesmen into the volcano, you know something's wrong.
Absolute clap trap. Liberals don't accept that type of tribalism, and conservatives should care because he wasn't a good American. Really think about it for a moment, a criminal in a foreign country was killed by an American missile? Do you really think any American would care if it wasn't for political one-upmanship? It's an invented issue.
Fanatically anti-fanatical
I always love to look up the context for quotes. So tell me...where did this quote come from? When did the word "treated" get "added" in? Obviously, the word "treated" is the source of all the consternation, with folks jumping to believe that the word implies sending skeptics away to hospitals (as cpu6502 alleges). Where is the proper context, so that we may determine what capacity "treated" was being used in?
Let's start with the Register. (lol, half a step above the Daily Mail!)
"Resistance at individual and societal levels must be recognized and treated"
Which links to the university press release
"Resistance at individual and societal levels must be recognized before real action can be taken to effectively address threats facing the planet from human-caused contributions to climate change."
Which links to this presentation.
"What social factors drive ongoing environmental degradation? Existing scientific conversations have generally failed to include psychological understanding of individual behavior, or sociological insights regarding culture and social organization. This session highlights key psychological and sociological concepts essential to understanding social inaction. We integrate research on relational trust, social normative beliefs and cultural and political-economic constraints on pro-environmental action."
I ctrl-f'd for "treat" but found nothing except the original Register quote. I also ctrl-f'd for "hospital" and found nothing. And the original Register "quote" wasn't even quoting her.
:(){
The atmospheric methane time series is not a straight upward trajectory like CO2. Although the overall trend is upward, suggesting human causes. Cow farts, melting permafrost, natural gas well leakage are suggested sources of methane. Methane is reactive and decays fast, in about 20 years, so it must be replenished.
You don't. You should lay off the crack pipe then.
What does that budget that Harry Reid let the Senate debate on look like?
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
Dinosaurs break wind, news at 5!
and any pretension of the posters on this site having higher than average intelligence is laughable.
But...but...we know how to replace a graphics card? And, like, lots of totally inside joke star something references?
Honestly, the old GNAA, penis bird and Natalie Portman trolls were better than the global warming threads.
People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
Well, when you are in a room of like thinking people and say something they like. Chances are very good that they will applaud you.
If someone was to get up front and give a well informed speech and slide show to say the climate of the Earth changes over time from hot to cold and back again. That is the nature of the thing. That person might have been tossed out of the place.
Well, what do you call people who make up their own reality which can not be penetrated by facts?
Religious?
Visit CryptoGnome in his home.
Slashdot and theRegister editorial stances are primarily Libertarian Conservative. There are exceptions. The commenters are all over the map, from Conservative, to Centrist, to Liberal, to Certifiable. Conservatives aren't "Bashed" more than anybody else, except for maybe the Certifiables, usually Anonymous Cowards.
"I'm conservative (most of us over 40 are)," is just dead wrong. Most of the people that _I_ know that are over 40 are Centrist to Liberal. But again, there are exceptions. There is not much Tea Party presence around where I live, and the Occupiers here have a huge contingent of Little Old Ladies and Aging Hippies.
"yet I agree global warming is a problem and it can be attributed to human activity." Good, a basis for discussion.
"However, "cute" articles like this ("Oh look little Tommy - dinosaurs, and it's about Global Warming, so I can feel good about myself reading it) are nothing more than fluff pieces that make self-righteous Eurotrash feel informed, and your post is just more inane karma whoring."
"cute", "Fluff Pieces", "Eurotrash", (Eurotrash?? Do you even know what the term means?) "Inane Karma Whoring" Well, forget about a basis for discussion.
Posting as Anonymous Coward. But not one of the Certifiables.
If a significant number of people in your country hate the "other" people so much that they would rather everybody suffer than allow them to succeed, then you country is rotten to the core and will fail no matter what anyone does.
Visit CryptoGnome in his home.
If we make all politicians play the silent game, do you think global temperatures will drop?
I *think* the commenter referring to this:
Who: Professor Norgaard
What: "Resistance at individual and societal levels must be recognized and treated"
Where: Planet Under Pressure Conference 2012
When: Wednesday 28 March 2012
The real question is was this peer reviewed and was she even capable of making decision on how to diagnose a mental illness. She only has B.S. in biology and a master's and PhD in sociology. It would be more credible if she had an M.D. Psychiatry or a P.h.D. is Psychology. My guess is that she just wanted to be controversial and didn't even consult the DSM-IV-TR.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2123260/If-dont-believe-climate-change-sick-Oregon-professor-likens-skepticism-racism.html http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/03/30/climate_scepticism_racism_slavery_treatment/ http://www.planetunderpressure2012.net/pup_session.asp?
"...Dinosaurs May Have Changed Climate"?
May Have?! You can take that to the bank! The lady dinosaurs just glared at the offending males and the local temperature dropped by, oh, 7-8 degrees right there!
Scientists believe this behavioural trait may have been conserved too. More studies are pending!
I'll stop getting bean burritos
Something to keep in mind is that when you quote someone, a single sentence is never enough. That should be an alarm bell that someone is taking something out of context. Always quote full paragraphs with a link straight to the official source.
Of course, this didn't even bother taking the quote "out of context", it just fabricated the quote out of whole cloth. For one, it was a "quoting" a University press release. For two...the press release didn't even say the word "treated".
As I mentioned in a sibling post here, I have not been able to find any verification that Dr. Norgaard said the words treat, treatment, mental, illness, or hospital (as cpu6502 alleges). I will gladly stand corrected if you can point me to a more reliable source than the Daily Mail LOL. Good luck, though, if you read the Planet Under Pressure link that you yourself tried to post, you will see those words are nowhere to be found.
:(){
In the news today, bean farmers around the world have been hard hit by a global warming tariff placed on their produce. There have also been reports of bean farmers being attacked by herds of irate greenies, blaming their product for the imminent drowning of... ummm... never mind the science damn it, it's bound to be dangerous.
The days were shorter several million years ago, and presumably the nights were, too. If there's evidence of the last of the dinosaurs being killed by something heat related and there's evidence of high levels of atmospheric methane, does it also discount a reduced cool off period for the planet due to its rotation? Elevated temperatures reduce a liquid medium's ability to hold dissolved gasses, so what's to say that oceanic belches ala Lake Nyos didn't do much of the population in? Do they have samples whose isotopic signatures absolutely rule out other methane sources, or is this just more Slashdot quality journalism? Have they ever found and cultured any dinosaur intestinal flora to determine if they would have produced the methane they're speculating?
We made up some math problems, and it says stuff. We can't prove any of it, but it has the words "climate change," "methane," and "dinosaurs" in it, so we must be awesome. Right? Can we have more money now?
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
Vegetation can grow very quickly under some circumstances; we all know the denier line that "CO2 is plant food". Which, of course, is absolutely true and wonderful, as long as you overlook the fact that it is also poison to animals adapted to current atmospheric conditions.
You're serious? You do realise that we animals breathe out CO2, don't you? That we don't completely expel the air in our lungs, so you can do whatever you like to the outside concentration of CO2 and it won't even begin to affect the levels that we're actually breathing?
Business/App ideas are like arseholes: everyone's got one, they're mostly shit, but very rarely they contain a diamond
You are right about the trolls. BSD is dying was pretty funny too.
In any event, I think the AGW troll articles are going to do what nothing else did - encourage me to go to Reddit. People laugh that I still post here. I am coming to the point of view that they are right.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
I didn't know that methane was producing dinosaurs! :-o
It is customary for the accuser to provide both details and evidence. It is not a failure for the audience to not do his job for him.
No, it doesn't. The issue has nothing to do with pleasing anyone, but of giving details which can be fact-checked. After all, it is impossible to disprove a claim that "a scientist said" unless you know what every scientist has ever said, which is an unreasonable demand.
This, from someone who speaks of "unwashed masses" yet fails to comprehend the simple concepts detailed above?
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
I *think* you're right about the source of the quote, but you really need to go one step further in your research. You'll find that the Daily Mail (one step behind the National Enquirer for journalistic quality) invented a "quote" out of thin air, probably because its readership would have been unable to digest the actual title of her presentation, "Resistance at individual and societal levels must be recognized before real action can be taken to effectively address threats facing the planet from human-caused contributions to climate change."
Better luck next time.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
They were actually dinosaurs that let one loose next to the camp fire
We call them doubleplusgood outer party members whose devotion to Big Brother allows them to have faith in the pronouncements of minitrue
through the most excellent and loyal excersise of doublethink. Chocolate ration this month is 5 grams. It has always been 5 grams it will always be 5 grams.
Those who can't understand this simple reality will be sent to minilove for reeducation.
Thankyou for your attention.
When people want the country to fail economically so they can be proven right, that's pretty damn close to treason. .
Like Obama? He just helps the economy fail so capitalism can be declared a failure, and we can move on (.org) to socialism.
This is now. It is now just a matter of the course running the path it is presently on.
And you are right, hate has supplanted anger.
He was a product of his time. Just like currently living people are now.
Argument inspired by gaseous dinosaurs:
.: If one eats less fibrous vegetation, then one produces less methane, and therefore has a reduced carbon footprint.
.: Livestock have high carbon footprints
.: Vegans are bad, because they waste livestock and increase carbon footprint.
.: A cannibal that eats vegans and is a carnivore is improving the environment by reducing carbon footprint.
1) Methane is a greenhouse gas
2) Eating fibrous vegetation creates methane
3) Creation of methane increases your carbon footprint.
+ 1) Livestock eat much fibrous vegetation.
++ 1) Decreasing carbon footprint is good.
++ 2) Killing livestock that have high carbon footprints decrease carbon footprint.
++ 3) Waste is bad.
++ 4) Eating livestock that have been killed to decrease carbon footprint does not waste the livestock.
++ 5) Vegans do not eat or kill livestock.
Conversely: Carnivores are good for the environment because they do not eat fibrous vegetation, and they do not waste livestock, which they kill, thereby reducing carbon footprints.
1) Some people are carnivores
2) Some carnivores eat vegans.
3) Vegans increase carbon footprint which is bad.
4) A person who eats people is a cannibal
Confidentiality, Integrity, Availability: without Availability the other two are assured, as is Bankruptcy.
Might want to go study up on your history a little bit, remember it was the minority in the pre-days of the soviets who advocated exactly the same thing, which then became the status-quo. But what do I know? I mean it's not like my mother's father didn't spend 25 years in a soviet gulag because he was a Ukrainian farmer who refused to bow down and give everything away at the demands of the state. Oh wait...
Tip: We don't have many evangicals in Canadaland.
Om, nomnomnom...
Yeah, and anyone voicing an opinion different to yours is JUST LIKE THE SOVIETS... Take your fake martyrdom and shove it up your lying arse. You might also apologize to your grandfather for pissing on his image.
Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
Ha! Next, I suppose, they'll be blaming cows for climate change!
"your denial of the original statement"
Where did I deny the original statement?
"or not believe in it"
I do believe in science... That is also why I don't dismiss the possibility that organismally produced gasses may alter climate. I also suggested that this may not be the case here, but that the analogy still is valid.
"You're saying 'cyanobacteria'. The article on wikipedia says 'we just don't know'."
The Wikipedia article said "The rising oxygen levels may have wiped out a huge portion of the Earth's anaerobic inhabitants at the time. Cyanobacteria, by producing oxygen that was toxic to anaerobic organisms, were essentially responsible for what was likely the largest extinction event in Earth's history."
That doesn't mean it is true, however. It is a working hypothesis that does explain the rise of the oxygen.