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Dish Network Announces Prime Time TV With No Ads
Hugh Pickens writes "Forbes reports that Dish Network has announced a new feature called called Auto Hop for its satellite TV subscribers that will let you automatically skip all commercials for prime time television from the four major broadcast networks — when you watch programs the day after they are first aired. 'Viewers love to skip commercials,' says Vivek Khemka, vice president of DISH Product Management. 'With the Auto Hop capability of the Hopper, watching your favorite shows commercial-free is easier than ever before.' Craig Moffett says it's going to be hard for Dish to maintain good relationships with its programming affiliates when they start offering a feature intended to cut out the bulk of the affiliates' revenues. Whether the auto-skip feature can withstand legal challenge remains to be seen. 'Given the already long list of industry-unfriendly features promoted by Dish, one wonders if Auto Hop will be the final straw that provokes legal action from the broadcast networks,' says Moffett. 'We suspect Auto Hop probably uses some sort of bookmarking insertion based on automated recognition of commercial inserts (called "fingerprinting'"), which if true could certainly be argued to be a manipulation of the content stream by the distributor.'"
cry me a river.
Doesn't Dish already pay licensing fees to the networks as well?
So, what you're saying is that 30-minute long publicity WILL NOT pay for content they air (but they will still be able to afford the shows), but instead will focus on other revenue models? I can see why you are upset. Welcome to the 21st century.
I work in the advertising industry and it is outrageous how far people can go to abuse others. It isn't free to make all those good tv shows and in my opinion authors should get paid for them. Mostly this is based on advertising on TV. If you don't want advertising, go buy the DVD boxes which don't have them. But have some decency and let people get paid for their hard work. Dish Network is bunch of assholes.
Fine but don't then fill the DVD's with crap about piracy and advertising other shows, I just bought them to avoid getting the actual show I want to see in an uninterrupted format, let me have it!
Common sense is not so common
Slashdot is also almost completely supported by advertising. As many users on this site block them, they have moved to more subtle advertising like paid stories on Ask Slashdot, sponsored polls and their jobs site. All you are doing is shooting yourself in the leg. Moves like this will only introduce more subtle advertising, using psychological ways like those 0.1s flashes of products in between and product placement. Is that better then? Now you at least know when you are being advertised something. Then you won't, but your mind will, subliminally.
Look.. if you give me free content, pay for it with advertising. If I pay you for content..or like Dish does, then cram your advertising..k?
I am old enough to remember when cable was new and shiny. At first I was..wow! Great! I pay you and I get to see shows without commercials right? Bzzzt.. no.. I get to pay you AND see commercials..how silly of me.
Personally, I would rather pay and watch 98% pure crap than "prime" content with 3-4-5 minutes of ads blaring every 10 minutes. For me..yes..I would pay for you to just go away.
This is happening only when you watch shows the day after they air. A consumer can do the same thing right now with a DVR. Simply record all the shows and watch them the next night, fast forwarding through all the commercials. Dish is simply automating the process.
F*ck that noise. This isn't about being paid for hard work, this is negotiations over just how badly they can sell the customer.
If a TV network has the option of providing a show, and making $40 million off of it (ad free), or $60 million off of it (with ads), they will always choose the latter. As both the customers, as well as the eyeballs being sold (thanks guys), we have the right to tell them that it's enough. Enough of these ads, enough of the chronically shortened programming, enough of the bullsh*t where you trot out an actor earning $500,000 / episode, and tell the rest of us that the network will go bankrupt if they listened to the viewers for once in their goddamn lives.
And while we are on the topic, bring back Firefly.
I am John Hurt.
Exactly, how is it abuse to skip commercials on recorded content? I do understand that that the producers need money, but you can not force viewers to watch content they do not want to see. Do you want to make it illegal to go to the loo during the commercial break as well? Perhaps the producers could try a humble attitude and a "Donate" button instead of advertising companies?
If my comment didn't sound as good in your head as it did in mine, then I guess we all know who's to blame
Slashdot is also almost completely supported by advertising.
I really don't care. Sometimes some ads are interesting. Sometimes they aren't. I have the option to turn them off, but I choose not to. I like to see what's out there, because sooner or later - if it is relevant - I will need to have an informed opinion about it. Or just dont't, and have a good motive for that. Because in IT, clients don't like to hear "I've never even heard of it" from their consultants.
I had a ReplayTV years ago that did this, which used to be a competitor for Tivo until they lost the pricing war (didn't take long!). Actually until a few months ago I still used it regularly to tape standard def TV shows, but then my "lifetime" subscription ran out... (let THAT be a lesson to you)
Anyway they had two incredible features on these boxes, from around 2003 until the service shut down. The first was commercial skipping, which worked reasonably well. The second was the ability to share recorded shows. Several communities sprung up around this capability, so you could request a show that you had missed from someone else who had taped it.
Predictably they were sued and that did not help their already troubled business model. But it's not such a new thing for commercial skip to be available in COTS consumer devices. And man I miss it!
Just my $0.55 (US inflation, 1774-2008, for $0.02)
Shouldn't that post have been in all caps?
You can do it the same day, even with a DVR. You don't have to wait that long. A 30 minute TV show is ~21 minutes long once you cut out the commercials. Wait 8 minutes after the show normally starts, and you can watch your show commercial free, with a minute of fast forwarding.
I work in the advertising industry...
Not for long.
When cable TV was originally created, it was promoted as an advertisement-free alternative to regular TV. The subscription fee was the replacement to advertising revenue. Many people seem to have forgotten that -- today, it's just a foregone conclusion that you have to suffer advertising on everything. But it's a lie; And if there's millions of viewers on DishTV's network, then it doesn't matter how loudly advertisers scream... Dish can just pay the content producers directly and tell them to suck dick. The only one that loses here are advertisers who have to suck dick instead of forcing theirs down their subscriber's throats. :O
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
The problem isn't just the commercials, it's all the annoying ads in the lower corners of my screen, advertising all the other shows they produce. It distracts from the show I'm watching, and sometimes it blocks something I needed to see that was relevant to the show I was supposed to be focusing on. The networks are shoving more and more advertising down our throats and people are tired of it. Personally I would rather product placement, as long as it isn't the 1950's cheesy way, I'd rather see a Budweiser than a can that says "beer". The 'stars' and the executives are all paid too much and the majority of shows suck. Let's not even talk about reality shows, I really doubt those cost a fortune to make. So I will restate the earlier post "cry me a river"
If dish can skip content then there is no reason why they can't replace content. THey could start inserting their own ads.
Also as far as implementing this goes, there's no need to auto-detect commercials. just pay some mechanical Turk to do it. sounds like an easy job to watch say 8 hours of TV and mark the commercials. It's only 4 or 5 channels so that's like 20 people to pay.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
The real problem for most people is that advertising never ends, it never seems to be enough. For Americans it might just always have been there, I am old enough and European enough there are alternatives. Germany has a very odd mechanic where they seems to show all the ads on one TV station for about half an hour and that is it. Belgium occasionally has one. The BBC has none and Dutch TV didn't have to use any on Sunday so they had to add cartoons to make programs run a full hour. Battle Star Galactica (The original) followed by Bugs Bunny and then the news.
But if you watch some American TV (and may god have mercy on your soul) you will see ads EVERYWHERE, every five minutes, they have popups during the program, on the first seconds as the program comes back on after a commercial block and in the program itself. The logic seems to be that if 1 ad works, a 100 will work even better.
The reasoning when applied to sex (hey, I can't always use car anologies) would be that since your gf likes a small penis inside, she would REALLY like a big one so why not have her fucked by a whale and make her really happy. And then you wonder why she ain't happy, because you just make your gf explode into a thousand gooey bits from being banged by a volkswagen (oh okay, one car analogy) sized penis! HAPPY?
It as as when your gf asks you to spank her, what she means is that she wants you to make her hiny glow a nice pink color. NOT to beat her until she is a thin red paste on the wall and the cops are hauling you away, yet again (and now you know why on /. we use car analogies, because the other kind are just to revealing of the inner workings of the average analogy using slashdotter). There is a line between advanced sex play and first degree murder and there is a line between advertising that works and advertising that doesn't work because there is just to fucking much of it.
People are lazy, that can lead you to believe you can push them and stop until they start to react. The problem is that while people have a great deal of inertia, once they stop moving, they are unstoppable. Once people have started using time-shifting and ad-blockers, you can't get them to stop again. I started using ad blocking because a series of ads just pissed me off enough to take the effort and now all ads are blocks and screw you if your website dies because of it.
I think the real problem is that TV execs don't eat their own dog shit (calling TV food is just to ridiculous) they don't have to sit through their own ads to watch their own content. They don't get just how fucking annoying it gets and the people that stop watching don't show up on their statistics until suddenly, advertising on TV doesn't have as much effect in generating sales. You can see it in the advertising industry, they know they aren't reaching customers anymore but are at a loss of coming up with a solution. There are still viewers but they are the cattle that lack the income/knowledge to go elsewhere, the high income viewers are gone, unreachable. So... MORE ADS! That will get them back!
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Well, TV shows have started countering the DVR trend of skipping ads by doing more and more product placement. Where there was once a generic computer, there's a Dell or Apple. A cellphone, a Sprint Android or an iPhone. Generic canned drink? Now cola.
Hell, networks have even gone to the point of editing the TV episodes and adding their own product placements where the first time, there was none. It will also only be a matte rof time when you'll have audio ads interspersed with the TV show. Or we'll have scroller ads that take the bottom 10% of the screen (the TV networks are getting particularly obnoxious about this).
Hell, I'm betting once stuff like this gets common, the studios will figure out how they work and do the necessary distortions to mess up the programming - have the DVR on ad-skip mode? It'll automatically randomly skip through the programming for you, courtesy faked distortions the machine interprets as ads.
You make money out of making everyone else's life worse, but only just enough that they still put up with it to watch their shows.
People are learning how to cut you out of their lives. I hope your whole industry shrivels and dies as a result of people realising that you and people like you just make everything worse, insinuating yourselves into every aspect of human life and communications like a plague, a plague of serial liars.
There is nothing more "industry unfriendly" than a genuine free market. Despite propaganda, no businessman ever wants to compete in freedom. What you want is to control the customer and the competition, not let them control you.
Be careful, if they knew that, there will be a push to make such features on devices illegal, or every time you press fast forward it inserts a 30 second advertisement!
Nah, they'll never think of doing that.
What if they just moved the ads to the end of the show? That would suck less than having it constantly interrupted and the advertisers still get eyeballs on their content (in theory).
It's gotten to the point in Australia where the commercial channels clip the content before the ad break so for stuff like the simpsons you often don't get to hear the punchline. No wonder people download the stuff.
The TV shows on The Pirate Bay will have all the obnoxious shit cut out, once again giving pirates a better product than paying (ad-watching) customers.
This is the Internet age. You only need one bored nerd to manually cut ads, crop video, edit the soundtrack and start a torrent.
No, it is not free to make TV shows but the end broadcasters pay the producers to make them in order to fill broadcast hours and provide a vehicle for their revenue earner: advertising. The broadcasters are in turn paid for the insertion of advertising material into their transmission, and by re-broadcasters. This advertising is sold on the basis of the number of eyeballs that could potentially see it since there is no accurate measure of the number of people that actually see it (live or delayed), and even less of a measure of those that actually absorb it. That potential number of people is completely unchanged by this action which is, ultimately, no different to people using DVR skip, making a coffee, surfing the 'net, or having a pee during the advertising breaks. Everybody in that chain is fully paid by the time of broadcast except the end viewer who, understandably, does not feel in the slightest guilty for not watching the advertising material. This is also the end viewer who, having paid for a DVD box set, would still be bombarded by unskippable warnings containing half-truths that effectively call them a 'thief' and, in many cases, advertising. The industry is, as usual, trying to have its cake, eat its cake, and have a piece of everyone else's cake too.
If a legal challenge is mounted on the basis that creating external metadata, such as an index of positions in the stream, is a breach of copyright in the stream then it will be one of the more memorable attempts to overreach copyright law. If such a thing were allowed to stand then the act of creating an index card for a DVD library listing the length of the feature and extras would be a copyright violation, bookmarking a position in a movie your are watching would be a violation: clearly an idiotic proposition and counter to the public interest. I suspect, as usual, copyright holders will attempt to circumvent the actual copyright law by using contracts to do an end-run.
Patent litigation: A doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction... in which everyone seems willing to push the button
No one is forcing NBC to sell to Dish network.
But I might choose to only watch NBC via the Dish network if Dish provides it without commercials.
BTW, I already have car insurance via a mutual insurer that doesn't advertise; they simply have the best rates; everyone in my state knows it. So, it seems I don't need most of what the advertising industry is selling.
No, I'm not going to go look it up and yes, I'm sure it's been asked before. What, exactly, am I paying a monthly subscription for?*
*Actually, I'm not. I just moved and I elected to not transfer my service. There are better things to do with my time than watch TV. That includes reading Slashdot. Let that sink in. Posting on message board is a more worthwhile endeavor than watching the tripe spewing from Hollywood. You, personally, have made it such a miserable experience that I'm simply no longer willing to put up with your garbage. So, on a personal note, thank you.
Desperation is a stinky cologne.
Nobody is going to have any sympathy for you because you need to realize one simple immutable fact:
nobody wants the shit you are responsible for making. nobody. everybody hates you with the burning passion of a thousand suns. the only way for you to get advertisements in front of people is by the lack of choice .
Therefore, you are already deeply unethical in any attempt to sue somebody out of existence like Dish Network that is providing what the customer wants (Sonicblue), and deeply disturbed and sociopathic with your successful attempt to ruin television with disruptive overlays during programming.
The only way you can survive is by continuing to make sure the consumer has the lack of choice, and then you sit there with the unmitigated gall to complain when choice is provided.
Get a clue. Get a different career. I suggest Ambulance Chasing Lawyer or the guys who provide fresh meat for Hostel-like entertainment packages in Eastern European countries. You know.... something with a little more heart.
Slashdot is also almost completely supported by advertising. As many users on this site block them, they have moved to more subtle advertising like paid stories on Ask Slashdot, sponsored polls and their jobs site.
A very curious assertion coming from a brand new user... I have to assume you are actually a /. employee.
This also makes me wonder if all the "shills" popping up here aren't actually a creation of the site owners themselves, trying to increase traffic via controversy.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
There are plenty of sites that are happy to use boobs to sell you stuff. Part of the reason that I don't turn of the ads at slashdot is that I don't need boobs to be interested in the things that tend to get advertised here.
Isnt the majority of highway funding paid out of gasoline tax?
Good-bye
This is something that really bugs me. When I was a kid, I can remember the exact pattern of commercials. There were exactly 4 commercial breaks with 4 commercials each 30 seconds long. So, you had 22 minutes of content for 8 minutes of advertising. Even the placement was exactly the same in my favorite shows. Two breaks were interspersed during the show with 2 breaks mixed in between show intro-outros. I don't know if the ratio is the same, but the breaks on network TV are definitely way too long and far too much for my patience.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
One of which being that I was fucking tired of PAYING to watch advertisements. It's one of the biggest scams of all time. Everywhere I go, I'm inundated with ads. The rare time I go to watch a movie at the theater, now instead of just movie ads, I'm watching ads for soft-drinks, cars, TV shows... Keep going Entertainment Industry. Keep annoying the shit out of me. See how far it gets you.
"Are you fucking insane..."
Dude, calm down. He is not fucking insane, he is taking it slowly and has not yet reached the sexual relations stage with insane.
They have barely reached the kissing stage.
Its not a race. What are you... jealous or something?
Cable companies are just distributors, not show producers, yet they're always referring to their pay-TV as a "product". How is that any different than pirates offering the same "product" as television without ads delivered over the Internet for free?
Or we'll have scroller ads that take the bottom 10% of the screen (the TV networks are getting particularly obnoxious about this).
I don't know who decided those were a good idea. I don't really mind commercials, but blocking part of the screen while the show is on is obnoxious. And anytime a show has dialogue in a foreign language, they put the translation at the bottom of the screen - where it's blocked by an ad reminding me about some stupid show or special. I don't know why they think the best way to get me to watch some other show on their network is to ruin the show i'm currently watching on their network. My sympathy for networks is pretty low because they pull stunts like that.
You're already paying that tax. When you buy a Coke or a Ford or a Dell, part of the price you pay goes to buy advertising to convince you to by more Coke or Fords or Dells. Even those who don't watch TV, but by Cokes or Fords or Dells, pay this tax. It would be more efficient, and subject us all to far less attempts at mind control, to fund TV with an honest tax than the stealth one provided by advertising.
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
If the practice get standardized, we can just install black cardboard on the bottom 10% of our screens!
Tomorrow is another day...
The alternative explanation is that he's getting his needs met on a regular basis by an attractive woman. How's your sex life these days?
Write failed: Broken pipe
can be simply defined as
Commercials with Programming breaks.
nothing more, nothing less.
The Advertisers dictate what gets shown and when.
The Advertisers can dictate when the Network moves to another program despite the previous one (eg US Foodball) still not being finished.
The Advertisers can dictate the rules of sports so that they can have as many commercial breaks as possible. This is why they hate proper Foortball or Rugby.
so what is left?
not a lot really.
Sadly these 'features' are spreading to places outside the US.
Ads on the Internet were interesting 10-15 years ago... Small static banners advertising stuff that might even be relevant for a student/nerd like me at that time. Today they lie ("You have won!", "You may be at risk..." etc.), flash, jump, shake, slide over content etc. and that beyond obnoxious. I now block it all and it's their loss. If they behaved I probably wouldn't be so likely to do it. The so-called 'targeted advertising' simply doesn't work - for me at least. Whenever I happen to unblock ads or surf from other machines, the ads are all over the place, usually thinking I'm either a pregnant woman or a handyman, both of which are unbelievably off the mark.
I also block telemarketers and paper ads in my mailbox, using relevant signup services.
Ads on TV are even worse. Once in a full moon someone makes a good or funny television ad, but they rarely stand the test of being repeated 6-10 times each hour...
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) --
The British Broadcasting Corporation does not have adverts on domestic television. It's much better. Just pay your TV licence to the government instead of paying your cable subscription to the media organisation, and magically, your TV programs have no ads. Really, try it, you'll like it a lot.
Korma: Good
The alternative explanation is that he's getting his needs met on a regular basis by an attractive woman. How's your sex life these days?
Probably as good as his spelling! Marridge???? Seriously???
soylentnews.org Go there to enjoy the people!
Ads on the Internet were interesting 10-15 years ago... Small static banners advertising stuff that might even be relevant for a student/nerd like me at that time. Today they lie ("You have won!", "You may be at risk..." etc.), flash, jump, shake, slide over content etc. and that beyond obnoxious.
Sorry, but even back then they were obnoxious. There was like maybe a year of ads that were like you describe, then it quickly degenerated into crap "Punch the monkey!" type ads, animated images, flash animations, pop-ups, pup-unders, and sound. By 1999 it was already a cesspit.
Whenever I happen to unblock ads or surf from other machines, the ads are all over the place
Same here. The unfiltered Internet is always a shock to me.
They did, for two good reasons. Or more precisely, they put a 'use macrovision for this bit' flag on DVDs and required (via the CSS licence) that all players macrovision-protect the output if that flag is set.
Firstly, because DVDs came out long before DVD-recorders. At the time, the only way for a home user to record was on VCR. Requiring macrovision meant no renting DVDs and making tapes from them, or copying DVDs to tape to give to friends. Completly useless on expert pirates, but enough to deter the casual semi-technical pirate before file sharing took off. There was a downside to this, though: A lot of older TVs didn't have AV inputs, and DVD players don't usually have RF outputs. With macrovision making it impossible to just use a VCR as the interface between the two, a lot of people had to spend substantial money replacing old televisions just so they would be able to function with the DRM. A trend-setter there!
Secondly, macorvision was (and still is) the de facto way to mark a video signal as do-not-copy. A lot of equipment, even when there is no technical reason, will refuse to record if it detects macrovision in the signal. Things like PC video capture cards.
Even if that were the case, they'd just put advertising directly in the show (more than they already do). It would feel worse than watching an infomercial.
The system in the UK also includes a ban on Product placement and other advertising in-show. I think they've eased up a bit now, but when I was a kid the cartoon "Top Cat" was retitled to "Boss Cat" because there was a local brand of cat food called "Top Cat". (Yes, they actually edited the title sequence, badly). The gang still called him TC though, which would have been confusing if I had actually thought about it.
0.1s flashes of products...Now you at least know when you are being advertised something. Then you won't, but your mind will, subliminally.
Someone in the advertising industry should know that that particular type of subliminal advertising has been proven in every experiment to not work. If its too fast for the viewer to notice consciously, he has not noticed it period. So be my guest and waste your client's money.
Moves like this will only introduce more subtle advertising, using...product placement. Is that better then?
YES. A thousand times yes. Product placement can even make a show BETTER. Ever seen a character in a movie order a "soda" at a restaurant? Or walk into a bar and tell the bartender, "give me a beer"? That has always annoyed the crap out of me. If you do that in real life, you'll be asked, "what beer do you want, moron?"
Does it bother me that in Spider-Man, Parker pulled a can of Dr Pepper with his web while practicing? No, I have cans of soda around in my room, I'm not weirded out that Parker drinks that particular soda. I watch tv shows and see that prop departments make cereal boxes and soda cans with fictitious brands that have a similar look to real brands. Why instead of wasting money just not get paid to display the real stuff?
It's like the difference between those annoying flash ads and the google texts ads. The tv ads are like the flash ads. They block the content you want to see, are loud and obnoxious. The product placement is just there in the background, and you get to continue watching your show, like the google text ads are, just to the side in the sidebar. The first type, I will block every time. The second is absolutely fine with me.
Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.
Well, on average there's one boob* per person - surely that's enough?
(I'm excluding moobs here)
I started blocking ads once they became annoying.
It also doesn't help that ads tend to use technologies that are an obvious security problem. If I see a page at foo.com loading anything but foo.com I tend to get suspicious quick and am highly likely to block all of that untrusted unverified 3rd party stuff.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Slashdot is also almost completely supported by advertising.
Yes, but if I buy a subscription, there are no ads. Compare this to TV, where you pay >$100/mo and still get 15 minutes of ads for every hour of show. What bothers me isn't that they have ads, or even that a TV subscription without ads would be more expensive, it's that they refuse to offer an ad-free experience *at all*.