Slashdot Mirror
Facebook Co-Founder Saverin Gives Up U.S. Citizenship Before IPO
parallel_prankster writes "Bloomberg reports that Eduardo Saverin, the billionaire co- founder of Facebook, has renounced his U.S. citizenship before an initial public offering that values the social network at as much as $96 billion, a move that may reduce his tax bill. From the article: 'Facebook plans to raise as much as $11.8 billion through the IPO, the biggest in history for an Internet company. Saverin's stake is about 4 percent, according to the website Who Owns Facebook. At the high end of the IPO valuation, that would be worth about $3.84 billion. Saverin, 30, joins a growing number of people giving up U.S. citizenship, a move that can trim their tax liabilities in that country. Saverin won't escape all U.S. taxes. Americans who give up their citizenship owe what is effectively an exit tax on the capital gains from their stock holdings, even if they don't sell the shares, said Reuven S. Avi-Yonah, director of the international tax program at the University of Michigan's law school. For tax purposes, the IRS treats the stock as if it has been sold.'"
And another person "goes galt" and escapes the looters.
Liberty in your lifetime
Just to provide a little bit more information to this story, here are the requirements for citizenship in Singapore: http://www.ica.gov.sg/page.aspx?pageid=132
-- (this is a sig) My Computer Programming Forumhttp://www.programers.co.nr/
To think, he could have had 1/3 of that company if he wasn't such a dumbshit.
I'm sure this move was well planned and will serve him well.
It all boils down to too much government spendings, especially on welfare, to raise the kids of those who just stay at home, making babies and taking drugs
If the government doesn't have to pay for all these, the tax rate wouldn't be so damn high, and people wouldn't have to renounce their citizenships
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Of course, now that I think about it, he might have had to spend an entire year dead to realize any tax benefit from it. I'm sure you could manage that sort of thing when you're worth a few billion dollars!
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I really hope this becomes a trend among CEOs who are presently in the U.S.. It's a brilliant way to get rid of many of our parasites; we just need to find a way to convince our politicians to do it as well and we'll be home-free.
The Wolfpack Project: BitCoin + Crowdfunding = Political Accountability
He wasn't much of an American. He had U.S. citizenship for a grand total of... 14 years. Apparently he wasn't very honest when he took the oath of citizenship in 1998. The U.S. doesn't need more people who lie under oath; we've got quite enough, so one less is an improvement.
In any case, there are a lot of actually productive people who'd love to become American citizens, most of whom won't be so quick to turn their backs on it if it makes them successful. I'd be happy to loosen immigration restrictions and let more of them in. And people who don't like the United States, and want to renounce it? Let them, especially if they're non-productive investor leeches. You don't see real American rich people renouncing citizenship: Steve Jobs didn't go anywhere, Bill Gates isn't going anywhere, even libertarians like Larry Ellison and the Koch brothers aren't going anywhere, because they aren't mercenary traitors.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
On the plus side, they'll have more money. On the negative side, they won't have a very useful citizenship (EU and US citizenships are basically the most favorable ones to hold). And on the even more negative side, they're now required to two two years of military service, plus report once a year for military reserve training up until they reach the age of 40. (Saverin himself is exempt because first-generation immigrants aren't required to do the service; only their children are.)
Personally I'd rather pay some taxes than condemn my kids to years in the military, but perhaps he has other priorities.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
when $3.84 billion just isn't enough...
Party advisors from rich families, apparatchiks, trusted tribal families, cult members and military flunkies are running with tablets or printouts to their respective superiors. ..... .....
If we just change our simple tax law here, here and here, tweak citizenship and residency permits here
Think of the yachts, airport, housing, medical, banking, legal, security, car boom for our economy paid for by the USA been so
"Welcome to your happy new home for a few months a year" ad contracts are rushed to media groups around the USA for discussion.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
As an immigrant *to* the US, I feel insulted. My family worked quite hard to *get* US citizenship, and I know exactly why, and why it was worth it. People renouncing it to make a quick buck to me almost feels like selling their souls.
By becoming one himself.
How nice. It's so funny, the Galt's of the world are so dead certain that they are entirely self-made, that they completely and utterly don't pay attention to all of what came before being the whole reason they can be who they are.
I looked up Singapore individual tax rates. Max out at 20% and 0% on capital gains. Looks like a good deal for him. I assume Calif will get some tax out of him too before he leaves. I assume he must have another citizenship already. Notice Singpore requires two years residency before you can be a citizen. Of course maybe there is a billonaire's exception.
Fixed that for you. What would have been really cool is instead of his dad shipping Eduardo to Miami for safeties sake, the boy got his education old school, getting kidnapped for ransom and/or knifed outside a club in Sao Paulo. But no, he got a respite while raking in some unearned income in Brazil from the safety of FL. Next, he won the lottery when one of his few friends at Harvard needed some start up money for a social networking idea.
Now, he flips the bird to the country that gave him the safety, and an environment to make a major move up the SE ladder, because it's all his HIS! Well, screw 'em, and put 'em on a no-fly list as an ingrate of the First Degree, Order of the Asshole.
Frankly, we're not losing much when the likes of him take off: one of many sociopathic money grubbers constantly looking to game the financial system (privatize the profits, socialize the loses), and whose investments know no border no matter where they've bought a condo. If he participates in fucking the banks in Singapore like his kind did in the US, he'll end up in gaol faster than he can whine "class warfare".
Luke, help me take this mask off
One thing for sure, the IRS is going to look back at Mr Saverin all previous tax schedules. And no doubt, the IRS will claim that
since Facebook actually trade on secondary market before IPO, that he will owe millions in back pay taxes plus interest.
I hope he doesn't live to regret his decision, as it's a hell of a lot easier to drop US citizenship than it is to get it back.
If you aren't willing to contribute to the nation you live in according to the rules of that nation, you have no right to set foot on their soil ever again. Simply put, tax evasion is being a leech. That's true even uf you put more in than you get out since they are not paying in as much as simularly wealthy people.
What if you reduced the government back to its size in 1776? Imagine how much money you'd save personally if you didn't buy food!
It all boils down to too much government spendings, especially on welfare, to raise the kids of those who just stay at home, making babies and taking drugs
Idiot. The vast majority of Federal spending goes to the DoD, Medicare, and Social Security. Frankly, the major constituents for all of these are core Republican voters. The drugs are mostly for blood pressure, gas, and diabetes. So sure, screw 'em.
If the government doesn't have to pay for all these, the tax rate wouldn't be so damn high, and people wouldn't have to renounce their citizenships
They don't have to do anything, kid. 35% percent - before deductions and shelters - is high? Pffft! Anybody in Eduardo's position who's actually paying 35% is using form 1040EZ to do their taxes.
Luke, help me take this mask off
If you tax rich people, they will leave and if you tax poor people, you can't raise any money.
Sorry, but gray text on gray background is making my eyes bleed.
What a lot of anti-tax folks don't realize (or choose to ignore) is the fact that a tax regime that creates a civil society (educated, healthy populous, rule of law) in turn creates an environment that allows companies like Facebook to flourish. It's much harder to create wealth in an environment where your employees are illiterate, hungry and sick and corruption is rampant. Sure, you can drill oil wells or mine for gold, but you can't really create companies with IP in those environments. I guarantee you the next Apple or Google is not coming in Nigeria. Why do you think India is working so hard to create institutional change?
They mean only someone that makes more money than they do.
The rich go away
The tax stays.
keep drinking the kool-aid, your next.
Seriously, I have no problem with someone giving up their citizenship if there's a real reason. There's usually not though since the US is perfectly fine with you having another citizenship, if you have a second one (or more) they just only recognize your US citizenship for their purposes. I have a Canadian citizenship, as well as my US citizenship. Also renunciations only count in front of a US council, with the intent to renounce. So a foreign country can make you "renounce" it in their ceremony and it doesn't count as far as the US is concerned and of course they are the only ones who matter for that.
However for people who do it to try and escape from taxes? Fuck them, put them on a permanent travel black list. No reentry to the US, ever. Since they dislike the US and its taxes to much, they are free to stay the fuck out.
Particularly in circumstances like this, it is pure greed. At the level of billions you are not talking about something that makes a big difference in quality of life. 9 billion dollars lets you live basically just an opulent life as 10 billion. It really is the case that the more you make, the less it matters how much more you make. Him paying the taxes wouldn't be the difference between the good life and the poor house, it is the difference between being able to get gold plating on a massive yacht, or just have a massive yacht, to the like.
So I say since he is telling the US he doesn't need them, they could say the same. Bar him entry. Maybe it won't matter, but I'm betting some day he'll want to visit for some reason.
Are you going to travel to the ER on privately owned dirt roads? Better hope the bridge owner isn't asleep for the night if you need to cross water.
If Facebook makes him money, why can't he just pay the taxes and be done with it?
I'm LostCluster but I lost my password to that user. Hey Slashdot, how about helping me get it back!
Just so we can have him covered, what are some of the benefits of US Citizenship>
I'm LostCluster but I lost my password to that user. Hey Slashdot, how about helping me get it back!
He likely wouldn't have achieved so much without the protection and infrastructure that many tax-paying Americans helped to provide. Now that he has so much money, he feels no sense of duty or obligation to contribute back to that system. Total dick move.
In which 3.84 is 4% of 11.8.
Which way did you come in?
Seriously, if the ass hat wants to renounce his citizenship, he should be shown the borders and told not to come back.
What a fucking wanker!
Why is it that most of the people that I encounter seem to have been shat from the Sphincter of Mediocrity?
Let's look at personnel. In 1990, the US government had 3 million employees, 2.1 in the military. In 2010, there were 2.8 million, and 1.6 million in the military.
So where are we going to find people to cut? How many more citizens have we added, that are served less by fewer people?
Or is your problem with the spending? Wait, wait, you're probably thinking it's gone up and up. I know you are. Then you factor out Social Security and other such non-discretionary spending, and control for inflation. Can you do that, or will you just take the budget gross as a given?
It's even worse if you go back to your LBJ days, we'd have to eliminate all spending and personnel involved in the Internet, while 1933 would eliminate the Interstate Highway system. And Social Security. That'll go well, won't it? At least in LBJ's days, NASA was a bit larger. Still not the 10% of the budget people think it is though.
Now don't get me wrong, I'd be happy going back to the days when passenger rail was an option, it'd reduce pollution considerably, and enable us to very quickly transition off fossil fuel dependency, but somehow I don't see you going along with that idea.
I'm sure you LOVE your platitudes, your blanket statements, but the reality ain't so pretty. Ron Paul wants you to believe it'd be easy, and practical, and a cure for what ails you.
He's not being honest with you, and I can only hope he's lying to himself as well. Otherwise he's an actual conman, not just a foolish optimist who offers grand ideals, but is only separated from a huckster by a sincere belief in what he has to offer.
This makes me mad.
He became an American Citizen, became successful, and now when its his turn to pay his fair share he bails.
Thats a move the banksters would try and pull..... hes actually in a position to improve our countries economy now and how does he repay us? by renouncing his citizenship to save money on taxes....
i dont know maybe im misinformed (which if i am im damn sure the readers of /. will clear me up), but as a ordinary normal American, who pays his taxes, this is just plain greedy.
If he is still alive after the shit really hits the fan, once he is old enough not to serve in the IDF, he'll make a bee line for Israel. If there are questions about his mother's pedigree, he'll have to apply for citizenship within the jurisidiction.
Implement a 90% exit tax. Problem solved. If you really hate the country, you're free to leave. But if you're only leaving because you've received the benefits of living here and now want to skip out on the check, well fuck you.
Just because I need cholesterol to live doesn't mean I'm in favor of buying a Big Mac every day.
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
If Obama be true to his radical ideology that hates success, he better instruct Eric Holder to bar his ass under pain of HYPOCRISY!
http://gutenberg.org/ebooks/16493
I don't use facebook, nor have money to invest in it. Why does this facebook trash news make it to slashdot?
The guy ran to this country's safety, used its great educational and legal systems, its infrastructure (all largely tax-funded) to pick up some loot. As soon as it benefits him, he flees and renounces it. He looted the U.S. They should charge him a fat traitor fee, send him abroad penniless, and forever ban his ass from entering. Typical rich asshole, privatize profits, socialize losses, run abroad from any responsibility.
If I was bound to make over $1bil, I wouldn't be tax dodging. If anything, I would find a bunch of charities and write that crap off. If 10+mil dropped in my lap, I could easily purchase everything I want and never work a day again. I would still work though as I enjoy my job and I would get too bored at home.
Purchase a 2k-ft2 energy efficient home, throw some solar panels and wind-generators on it, purchase a Prius, get a small server room with 3-5 medium-grade servers, a community with residential fiber, and I'm set. I would guess around $500k.
With a few billion, I would purchase a ton of bonds/stock/etc and live off the f'n interest with excess interest going to charity.
So up from approximately 0% to approximately 0%?
It it increases by the same factor of 7.57 over three years then in under 21 years you will all have renounced your US citizenship. Of course that is exceeding unlikely to happen but this is why you need to be concerned about large factor increases even when the numbers are small because they can grow very fast - although I don't see any reason to suspect that such a huge growth factor will be maintained.
It's not your money you indignant bastards! But I'm sure you'll come up with some formula that assigns a significant portion to your pockets based upon some big government BS.
The US makes it very easy to keep a US citizenship. To renounce it you have to do so in front of a US consular officer, and with the full intent of renouncing your citizenship. Any other way isn't valid. So if another country as part of their immigration process say "Give us your passport and say you renounce your US citizenship," you can do so and it doesn't matter. You can go to the US embassy and get a new passport later. The US doesn't consider their ceremony valid, they consider you still a citizen. Of course when it comes to US citizenship, the only opinion that matters is that of the US.
Also other than taxes, there aren't really any burdens of staying a US citizen. They don't require you to show up twice a year to praise the president or something. You can have the citizenship and it is just something you have. Taxes also aren't a problem, if you aren't trying to get out of them. If you live in another country, work there, and pay taxes there, you are fine. The US is a-ok with that, they don't want a cut.
They only go after taxes when people are clearly trying to dodge taxes that they'd otherwise owe. They don't want rich people to make a ton of money in the US but technically live in Barbados and not pay any taxes.
So really the only reason to formally and actually renounce a Us citizenship are:
1) If a country you are immigrating to actually makes you do it properly, to a US council. Of course even then who knows because that would be done in the presence of the US council and they might decide it was bullshit since you were forced.
2) If you really dislike the US so much that as a statement or personal moral matter you just can't keep your citizenship. Fair enough, but of course then you'd better be sure.
3) To evade taxes. In that case, fuck you.
Otherwise, people keep it. My parents moved to Canada like 5 years ago. Mom is from there, so Canadian of course, but got her US citizenship when she lived here. Dad was born in the US, and recently got his citizenship up in Canada. Neither renounced their US citizenship and neither are going to. Why would they? Nor a I renouncing my Canadian citizenship, though I live in the US. I can keep both and it is no big deal.
We have good seats to the death spiral of not sure what exactly, federal government perhaps.
He is just doing what apple, m$, facebook, ..., cisco, .. are doing: getting out of Dodge.
Corporations are stockpiling their money, moving factories, outside the US. Out of the reach of US government and states.
Leaving behind ever fewer resources to tax.
Raise rates on the remaining; more will find it worthwhile to leave.
US could lower rates to attract companies to pay taxes here, but then the half of Americans who pay no taxes,at all will scream about unfairness.
I read that the US government's trillions of debt to the Fed is secured by income taxes and property of the citizens. Dunno.
It isn't looking too good.
piece of shit.
I could care less if this guy thinks he's going to circumvent paying taxes. He'll be part of a publicly traded corporation and there are many ways to skin a cat.
Yep, I see you didn't cover inflation at all! Or even in the increase in population, as the other poster just mentioned. Maybe you think more can be done with fewer people, but that's not always true. Sometimes that is a bad idea.
Sorry, but there's a reason why I mentioned both things. You obviously don't care to be honest, you'd rather just stick to your deceptions. Ron Paul is not telling something that is accurate. He may be making claims that he believes are true, but they are poor calculations, and that's not an improvement. That's actually a sign he's not thinking of the situation in a comprehensive fashion.
And yet you're trying to blame me for bringing up irrelevant statistics...for shame. You're the one lying here, since if you were at all honest, you'd recognize what matters, and you surely aren't so incompetent as to not even consider inflation. Let alone break not out the mandatory spending. Heck, you didn't even mention Social Security taxes, which ARE counted in the budget, especially in the number you used for revenue. In fact, 959 billion at Wikipedia. That's right, most of what you're talking about being left over is actually from Social Security taxes. My word, do you not even realize how bad your accounting actually is?
Heck, just add up what's listed on your own source's page:
Total receipts:
Item Requested
Individual income tax $1359 billion
Corporate income tax $348 billion
Social Security and other payroll tax $959 billion
Excise tax $88 billion
Customs duties $33 billion
Estate and gift taxes $13 billion
Deposits of earnings and Federal Reserve System $80 billion
Other miscellaneous receipts $21 billion
Total $2902 billion
Please add up the excise taxes, customs duties, estate and gift taxes, Federal reserve deposits, and miscellaneous.
Nice, figure, huh? Apparently you'd rather Social Security be purposed entirely to fund every other role in government.
If Ron Paul came to my house with such nonsense, I'd be calling somebody in Congress to check his sanity.
Hard to collect that money if someone already smuggled it out. Chances are the country you are emigrating to will accept you plea for asylum based on the 90% exit tax alone, thus rendering you immune to prosecution unless you go back (like hell you ever would). And, if they wouldn't accept it from a normal, you can bet they will take a plea of asylum from someone insanely rich who only wants to spend that money in their new-found haven. Thus, once again, the only people hurt are the somewhat rich who are lucky enough to afford two cars, a 1200 sq ft home, and 2.3 children.
Go ahead and suggest you can stop people from smuggling the money out, but you're wrong. The US tried to confiscate everyone's gold at one point--and gave up. Because it didn't work.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102
My wife is American born to Canadian parents and has the choice and in the end picked Canadian. We have been advised that she would have a better experience traveling overseas in many places with a Canadian passport.or
Economic or military our political might doesn't seem to translate to respect from customs or security officials abroad. US passports in some cases act as invitations to solicit bribes for example.
I wouldn't doubt a singapore passport has its benefits over US in some places, especially in asian dealings where those in the tech sector might spend a great deal of time.
Though, it makes him a sociopathic unpatriotic disloyal traitor, like all tax cheats. He benefits from the internet out tax dollars invented and created, our educational system? And innovation and investment infrastructure. He benefits from our expensive copyright and patent protection system. Too bad he doesn't want to pay back. I hope he gets what's coming to him.
He is a Brazilian native. He has been a Singapore resident for years. US and Singapore both have a 183 day residency threshold to pay taxes as a resident. Singapore has a provision to allow resident aliens to not pay taxes in Singapore except for income earned in Singapore. He has probably had his shares in a tax haven country since day one.
US citizens have to pay taxes for all income worldwide. Some foreign paid taxes are deductible, some not. If you are real curious about the details probably the most comprehensive public source is the recent tax return released by Gov. Romney.
By renouncing his citizenship years after moving out he is removing the last vestiges of what can only be called an actual unfair tax. I don't like it either but this is not caused by a lack of patriotism, but by crazy tax laws.
People leaving high tax jurisdictions happens all the time. This one just made news.
Having two citizenships, and having family living abroad, I know a thing or two about it. The US is fine with it so long as you are paying income in the country you work in. You have to report the income to the IRS, but you get a credit for foreign taxes paid. Also you get to exclude $90k of income period. There are exceptions, and complexities, of course (when is tax law ever simple?) but if you live and work in another country and pay them taxes, you don't tend to get double taxed.
Also Canada, while not the same, is similar. Just moving abroad doesn't exempt you from potential Canadian tax liability.
And spies on them.
Are we sure he's giving it up for a tax break?
foreigners who invest 500,000$ plus, buy property worth that much, create jobs, etc. can become U.S. citizens. to a billionaire, that peanuts, and probably alot less than some of his taxes! USCIS Immigrant investor VISA after he sells his citizenship, he can probably buy it back anytime.
My next what?
He is Brazilian, if he leaves and doesn't pay, they can't extradite him.
Because one more thing the incredibly fucking rich need: an other way to dodge taxes. Shame on him...
Paying tax as an US citizen living abroad is not fun. You are double taxed, the rules change every second year, you don't get any straight forward answer from the IRS, you HAVE TO use a tax lawyer to file taxes and you're still not sure that you did things correct. The punishments for doing something wrong are ridiculous (e.g. my friend suppose to pay a 5% fine on her German husbands bank account, as a punishment that she did not list his account in her tax form although she has access (credit card) to his account). Even if you try to do the right thing you get treated as a potential criminal. And this for paying money to the US and not using any of the benefits you suppose to get from taxes. As long as the IRS doesn't make it easier for their citizens abroad to get rid of their money they will see many more of these cases.
Oh wait..He can donate all my money to a foreign fund before he renounces citizenship...
oh wait.. The fund can magically finance him afterwards..
Do you buy your stuff from Acme corporation?
People live in America and not pay taxes. Whats wrong with a guy leaving America and not paying taxes?
America is founded on Greed. Money is worshiped here. Not being greedy is frikkin un-American. I am not sure what the fudge you talking about. His ass should be welcome here any time, just like his dollars.
It's not enough that his entire success is due to the opportunities offered by the US, not to mention the freedom and protection from being kidnapped for ransom. Instead he must stiff the US government to save money and to hell with paying his dues. Without the US, he would most likely not have earned this money in the first place. Even though taxes are at a historic low in the US, it's still not enough for these people. It's about time the US does something about these people who exploit US citizens for profit and then do everything they can to avoid paying taxes.
Comparing raw data is useless you need to compare in constant dollar using inflation figures. I think it is about 3% per year except in crisis year so 1.03^22=~1.9 (doubling every 70/3=~23.3 years) so you would need a budget of 2 trillion dollar not 1.1 *only* to maintain the 1990 budget. Now as to why somebody like Ron paul seemingly ignore that factoid, whether intentional or not, I can't see it a good point in his favor in either case.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
This sounds exactly like the Soviet Union used to say (and do). Jews leaving the country had to pay about 5-10 average yearly salary "to compensate for the higher education received". US applied a lot of pressure to have that practice repealed.
The unfortunate truth behind tax policy, that those with the position to be sucessful have to leave to avoid their 1%tax. In a free country, your actions are not owned by the government. If you want to sell the fruits of your labor, they are owned by you, not the state.
Its simply the thought that everything has a tax implementation that is wrong with the system
renounce your citizenship it will not be possible to return to live in the U.S.
Yeah, the no-fly bit didn't take long to go deep into cliche territory. On the other hand, shitty laws don't get enough attention to repeal until they've been throughly used and abused, if only in jest.
Luke, help me take this mask off
I suggesting ES needed anal rape, and you think I'm an ugly American for trying to keep him off a plane?
Luke, help me take this mask off
They didn't extradite Bin Laden. Just sayin'...
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Oh, it's coming. It's coming. The forms to renounce the citizenship used to be free, up to this year, now they are 450USD. The IRS can deny or revoke your passport now if you owe more than 25K in taxes to them, so never mind quitting the citizenship, you can't even leave the country to go anywhere, not even a vacation.
The exit tax is huge actually, it's gigantic, in order for somebody to leave, they have to LIQUIDATE THEIR BUSINESS and all estate in USA, which is ridiculous, why is that the case? Foreigners can own businesses and houses in USA, why can't a person, who is a former citizen own stuff in USA, it's still his property?
No, the IRS wants the exit tax, and now the exit tax is punishing enough, that people with businesses can't legally get rid of their citizenship without destroying the company or selling it off, soon enough the exit tax will be ridiculous enough that even people WITHOUT savings, investment capital and possessions won't be able to leave.
You are BORN into this system, right, so you MUST uphold this ridiculous 'social contract' that you were born into? That's the argument - you are a slave of the system.
Soon enough you won't be able to renounce your citizenship at all unless you can pay out not only insane taxes, but also your portion of the national debt (why not?) and then you won't be able to leave just because you have to stay in the country, somebody HAS TO WORK, to pay for this 'socialist paradise', this 'social contract', the SS and Medicare and all that nonsense.
Admit it - USA is now USSR.
We weren't allowed to leave USSR, we weren't allowed to have real money or real investments or businesses or anything for that matter. The government owned us through and through, cradle to grave ownership of the persons.
We could be arrested and executed by the government for reasons that were completely political in nature. We could not leave our address even without the authorities letting us.
Nobody could leave the country really, very few travelled abroad, and most of those who travelled were KGB agents etc.
Admit it: USA is USSR.
---
There is absolutely NOTHING WRONG with a person wanting to leave the country if he believes that the country is abusing him, he doesn't want to pay the taxes - this is an EXCELLENT REASON to leave.
But when you fill out that form and when you bring it to the officials, don't you make a mistake and tell them that you want to escape the insane taxes and that's why you are renouncing the citizenship, they will not let you, and that is total bullshit. They own your ass.
And look at the pathetic /. crowd response: "fucker, take everything from him" or "fucker, don't let him in ever", etc.,etc.
And this was a 'free country'? A 'free society'?
You make me sick.
You can't handle the truth.
But you guys better be prepared for the consequence - GE and all the other corporations will move out of USA once you guys do that, resulting more millions of Americans queuing in front of the unemployment offices
Its really simple: You want to sell to Americans, You are an American Company who pays their fair share of taxes, or you pay a stiff import tariff. You want to take advantage of the developed infrastructure and stable developed economy, you have to contribute to it. Is it that unreasonable to expect companies to contribute to give back to the people who made their success possible?
And as far as this Eduardo Saverin asshole is concerned, he ought to be lynched as a traitor. He takes advantage of the benefits of the US when it is convent to do so, but when he makes lavish amounts of money, hes ready to pick up an move in order to avoid paying it. And this isn't for a little money. This guy is going have billions with a B. Do you realize how much money a billion dollars is? If he had to pay 50% of his money in taxes, he still will have close to 2 BILLION dollars. He will be able to buy mansions, jets and boats without blinking, and he can't man up an pay his fucking share of the bill. I hope the stinking ratfuck is slowly raped to death by Somali pirates. Burn in hell, Saverin.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
Is there any way he can be encouraged to move out of the US? We don't want him leaching any more. You know, using roads, airports, telecommunications networks, oil, food, etc. etc. that may have benefited currently or in the past from government subsidies paid by tax dollars.
Some interesting bits around this:
According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renunciation_of_citizenship
Effective June 2008, U.S. citizens who renounce their citizenship are subject under certain circumstances to an expatriation tax, which is meant to extract from the expatriate taxes that would have been paid had he remained a citizen: all property of a covered expatriate is deemed sold for its fair market value on the day before the expatriation date, which usually results in a capital gain, which is taxable income
and those conditions are listed here: http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,,id=97245,00.html
If you expatriated after June 16, 2008, the new IRC 877A expatriation rules apply to you if any of the following statements apply.
Your average annual net income tax for the 5 years ending before the date of expatriation or termination of residency is more than a specified amount that is adjusted for inflation ($145,000 for 2009 and 2010, $147,000 for 2011, and $151,000 for 2012).
Your net worth is $2 million or more on the date of your expatriation or termination of residency.
You fail to certify on Form 8854 that you have complied with all U.S. federal tax obligations for the 5 years preceding the date of your expatriation or termination of residency.
blindly antisocialist = antisocial
i love screwing govt out of taxes at every level: local, county, state and federal - govt is full of ID10Ts who waste money
It seems to me that it is not only Saverin who is not mindful of and not caring about the health of the nation and the people around him. Judging from the articles linked below, it seems that the entire of Facebook is not healthy:
.
... was charged ... based solely on a Fac
Facebook's reputation in the mainstream media is rapidly getting worse. Facebook is getting a bad reputation partly because of articles like these:
Worst company: Facebook was a semi-finalist in the April 2012 competition to be voted the worst company in the United States
Facebook follows its business rules? Not always. The April 7, 2012 Wall Street Journal story, Selling You on Facebook, says:
"Facebook requires apps [mobile phone software applications] to ask permission before accessing a user's personal details. However, a user's friends aren't notified if information about them is used by a friend's app. An examination of the apps' activities also suggests that Facebook occasionally isn't enforcing its own rules on data privacy."
There's more like that in the article.
Facebook tracks every web page you visit that has a Facebook button (using Javascript). For example, if you visit the Oregonian Newspaper web site, Facebook tracks every story you visit, even if you don't click on the "Like" button. There are ways to prevent that (using Firefox with the NoScript add-on), but most people don't know about them.
Companies pay people to click on Facebook "Like" buttons. The number of Facebook "Likes" doesn't give any indication of popularity.
On December 9, 2011 it was necessary to click on a Facebook "Like" button to be allowed to see Fry's Electronics ads.
Do 86,688 people (on April 9, 2012) really like Firestone Complete Auto Care, or did the company offer something to be "liked"?
A few problems with Facebook: Richard Stallman wrote a short list of things wrong with Facebook.
How much information does Facebook keep? Read the December 13, 2011 article, Twenty Something Asks Facebook For His File And Gets It - All 1,200 Pages.
What do people in other countries think? The May 14, 2010 article, Facebook is not your friend gives one idea.
The June 15, 2011 article, The End of Facebook, and the June 14, 2011 article, Is this the beginning of the end for Facebook? give others.
Most people don't understand the problems that may occur. For example, consider the March 28, 2012 article, Teacher's aide says 'no access' to her Facebook; now legal battle with school.
This April 4, 2012 article would be funny if it weren't so sad: Woman arrested for assault based on Facebook photo. Quotes:
"Aston
Unlikely. I mean, if anyone's able to spot a pump-and-dump scam it's him.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Simply put a 200% tariff on any product and service from a company that has left the US. Bam, instantly every company the ran for a tax heaven has to come back or see its product unable to compete with new local offerings.
As for "essential" products? Simply remove US protection from foreign products. See how MS likes it if it no longer is protected by the US copyright laws.
People forget that we created governments to be powerful opposition to the rich. Government is the one who can answer the question: "You and what army".
Capitalists like the wheeny above seem to think that companies and the rich can do whatever they want and the government and the people just have to sit back and take it. That is only the case if you let weenies run the country.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
As a Dutch Web Developer I have had jobs and job offers with foreign companies and... they are not what they seemed. In Holland, we get a lot of extra's on top of our salaries. A 100% refund on public transport for instance that isn't (yet) taxed. 370 euro's is the max, for a small country, you can travel quite far with that and of course a subscription also allows you to travel for free on non-work trips. Since the price of a subscription goes down the further you travel, the point where you just buy a free travel pass for the entire country is easily reached and I have had one for years. Remember, that in Socialist Russia, public transport is somewhat usable (well except since the capitalist came into power, 2 years of VVD rules and more breakdowns then in the previous 100 years).
A Dutch salary also includes contributions to unemployment programs, pension, healthcare etc etc. So, if a Dutch person says he get 5k, that is NOT all the money flowing out of the employers bank account to benefit him and society. This is constantly changing because Dutch governments fall down quite a lot and we have had to have coalition governments for decades but it means that a job offer from a US based company and native Dutch one needs careful consideration. It gets especially interesting if the person making the offer hasn't got any experience with the Dutch labor market.
You need to take even more care if as a Dutch person you are thinking of working in the US. Be REALLY careful how the money is going to flow. It is not the same for all US states or even cities but simple things like if you get a house, how is garbage collected? Who pairs for public transport (often doesn't even exist), car, fuel, road charges? How is medical covered? No dutch job advertises with medical coverage because that is standardized. How many paid holidays do you get? How many mandatory holidays? How do you get paid if the company goes bellyup (hint, IN holland your pay is ensured with no fuss, no hazzle, you get your full salaray). How quickly can you be fired (Holland 1 months notice and there are a lot of safeguards for dismissal, not just unfair ones, just saying, we don't need him anymore is not enough).
Add it all up and I have turned down many an English over (for some reason, the English speaking world has really bad labor laws) because it just didn't make any sense. They wanted me to take a pay cut for less security while working more hours. How attractive!
But Americans believe in this system, presumable thinking that one day they too will be rich and they don't want to be paying their wage slaves a decent salary then. The American Dream consists of, if I ever become rich, I want to keep it all, even if I have so much I could never ever spend it and got to take it to the grave with me.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Which would you rather have?
10 percent of 20 billion dollars
or
35 percent of zero dollars
Take your time. This is apparently a deceptively complicated problem because people keep coming to different answers.
The question is basically Cake or Death... and people keep choosing death for some reason.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Of course when you are alive, and you give a substantial amount of money (above the gift limit) to someone who owes tax they have to pay tax on that windfall
Wrong. When you give more than the gift limit to someone it is you who pays tax on the gift. See IRS Form 709.
That's why they call it a "gift" tax instead of an "inheritance" tax.
I would make a site like Facebook in one evening.
What a jackass
Yeah, society and the taxes that run it are a form of looting. I don't think he minded the looting that paid for the infrastructure he depended on every fucking day, and the teachers who educated the people he relied on to get work done, and the military that made sure he wasn't too busy doing the ole Sig Heil to bother with anything else and courts that and system of laws and enforcement of those laws that provided him with the legal framework he needed to make his money or the EPA who made sure he wasn't dead from dioxin exposure or all the other myriad of governmental services ..."looters" ... who made civilization possible and carry it forward on civil servant wages and the promise of a government pension at the end of a lifetime of service.
This guy is a poster boy for the problems when people become so much more wealthy than the average person. They become selfish, uncompassionate and basically sociopathic.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/10/rich-people-compassion-mean-money_n_1416091.html
Permitting these monsters to also hold influence proportionate to their wealth is where most of America's political and social problems come from. I don't give a fuck how tired you are of anything to do with anything "1%", what we have in America is an oligarchyy-kleptocracy being run into the ground economically, environmentally and morally by the scum who could give a shit about anyone or anything so long as he's got access to an all you can eat buffet of his favorite vices.
The super-wealthy twist and distort the system so it works only for them and at everyone else's expense. That's a fact and anyone denying it is just living in a fantasy world in which they're in line to be the next billionaire.
"I got mine, now watch me fuck you all. I don't need you,. and you can't touch me."
That's about the most dangerous thinking process a member of society can develop.
And yes, I do understand that programming and technology are areas that attract a higher than average number of such types. Let the mod down begin.
Fuck you. Read history.
Facebook may be a gigantic spy machine that induces the hapless and naive to surrender bit by bit most intimate details which are then assembled into a dossier to be used to suppress their own political, employment and economic opportunities so the rich can stay rich and keep the poor poor, but it's not going to save the rich from what comes when the system collapses in ecological and economic devastation . They'll share the same fate that all the past and present kings who thought of themselves as "untouchable"- and had better reason to consider themselves so- shared .
How soon until we read about some vet-who-can't-get-treated-by-a-tax-starved-VA taking a six dollar .50 BMG from two klicks away and exploding this fucking narcissistic panty-boy-billionaire's head like a two dollar melon?
Not soon enough. Ayn Rand's Galt character was just the (cardboard character, cartoonish) embodiment of the desire to have no obligations placed upon by society whatsoever, while of course being permitted
"Overall effective Federal tax rates on the top 0.01 percent of earners have declined from about 70% in 1960 to about 35% in 2005, while effective rates for the middle class have remained constant over the same period."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States#History_of_top_rates
What's happened is that social spending has risen, so the average productive person is getting less for their tax money, and seeing their tax money going to support non-productive people.
Futurist Traditionalism
IMHO, the reason government works so well and is so relatively uncorrupt in Singapore is that politicians and administrators have multi-million dollar salaries.
It seems in the U.S politicians are so reliant on being hired into cushy jobs at Goldman Sachs, getting insider stock tips from lobbyists (they are exempt from insider trading laws) and begging for campaign contributions that there's a lot more waste and corruption. Many of them are millionaires despite making relatively small salaries and when they retire and go into the private sector to work for companies they helped, they make millions.
If you make the simple salary of the politician the main focus, exit strategy and retirement plan of the politician they focus on doing their job and only their job well. It also becomes easy to attract very talented people from all professions to work for the government.
What a surprise.
Come back when you pay 50% with a smile to support your country.
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
How can Facebook even be on a list of worst companies? They offer a product you pay nothing for.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Prevent anyone that renounces their citizenship from entering the US for 10 years.
Rand and Marx were both doctrinaire Jehovahpaths (Yahweh haters). The difference is Rand allows one the liberty to acquire, possess and defend toys which is more in tune with (evil, wicked, fallen, corrupt and depraved) human nature.
For certain Mr. Saverin better drive the safest car in the world, get checked by the best doctors in the world, and have the best lawyers in the world. In short, he better Yahweh-proof himself.
income tax is optional , NOT MANDOTAORY
But the IRS has goons on its side, called the SWAT team and FBI. Who are clueless dumb workers who didnt even pass high school.
IRS = EVIL
worse than stassi org, and full of crooks.
JPMorgan and banks, your gone, toast, people will revolt, and never pay back your loans.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
besides the native indians who you fuckers killed.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Geithner
That fucker got millions in tax free money, did you know if you a FORCED to sell shares when entering USA GOVT, its all tax free.
1. So stock up on lots of shares.
2. Join govt.
3. sell shares tax free
4. pay no tax
5. live rich like a Saudi Prince.
All the govt politicians are filthy dirty evil theiving scum.
God will but fuck you with a penis 100 billion light years wide.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
Just name the first country to make pot illegal and then forced the UN to make it illegal too and thus 99% of the world.
Only in America as they say.
Who made liquor illegal ? eh? dumb asses, total fuck nuts there... ie those pathetically stupid christians. Dude, wine was in the bible. MOFOS
Yeah something scares you, make it illegal, oh now I feel better, its illegal. Cool. Dumb fucks, you cannot control the universe and define what exists and doesn't.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
Its all the little fuckers that fuck it up.
The person that doesnt question the TSA or some the govt, or some procedure.
The lawyer that approves something.
The judge that doesnt question decisions.
TSA is all 100% show , and 200% profit margins to corps, it stops nothing, it does nothing, it protects nothing, its all show.
Nothing will stop kamikazes.
Seriously, all too often its people in govt, trying to best their careers ahead of the common good that ruin the lives of everyone. Trying to 'achieve' tasks or goals or specs,to make rules or laws that sound good on your resume, but in reality cost more billions, ruin more lives, and dont really help any one.
Id like to see ALL LAWS have a sunset clause and review processs, to say if X law doesnt achieve any goodness and help for society, then rm -f the law.
Since inception of lawyers, bad laws stay on books forever, like Windows, with no question about its removal, or review to see if it was wrong.
So.... Fuck the Govt, its run by a bunch of amature crooks, who dont give a shit if it hurts a bunch of people.
Why cant all new laws have an UNDO clause if its bad or not deamed to have been good enough.
The govt are above the law, they make the law, if there is any loop hole, they can make a new law to stop it. So they are above the law, they make the law.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
I hate seeing the money I could have had go to taxes, but that is what helps makes this country run to provide services to me and others. It really bothers me when you see this type of thing occur because they just want to screw over the government and its people yet wants to still be provided the services that they didn't pay for. Don't get me wrong, people's taxes are misspent by the government but that needs fixed, not wriggled out of. Personally, he's a spoiled brat and can piss off out of the country.
We got the behavior that we rewarded. Weird.
Stick that in your compiler and debug it!
One of the things that's hobbling my plans to depart is a minor little claim by the US Goverment in regards to voluntarily giving up citizenship:
'You are liable for taxes to the United States for a period of 10 years following your formal resignation of US citizenship.' (I'm getting the wording wrong here, but that's the gist of it.)
While that may allow him to dodge state taxes, and certain things like social security, he still WOULD be liable for income taxes for the following 10 years. And if he has a change of putting a significant dent in the current deficit with the amount of income tax owed, you can sure as hell bet the IRS and whoever else will be scrutinizing him closely to see what sort of funding they can appropriate from him. (Assuming of course they don't just go 'Hey, this guy is no longer a US citizen, which means we can just detain him indefinitely in guantanamo and claim all his assets in the name of terrorism, thus helping to reduce our budget shortfall!). I'll leave out the Godwin and just ask: 'What are non-citizens, but a source of revenue that doesn't require following the constitution?!?!'
Food for thought on clearing up the budget.
Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore
Galloping through the sward
Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore
And his horse Concorde
He steals from the rich
And gives to the poor
Mr. Moore, Mr. Moore, Mr. Moore
Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore
Riding through the night
Soon every lupin in the land
Will be in his mighty hand
He steals them from the rich
And gives them to the poor
Mr. Moore, Mr. Moore, Mr. Moore
Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore
Dum dum dum the night
Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore
Dum de dum dum plight
He steals dum dum dum
And dum dum dum dee
Dennis dum, Dennis dee, dum dum dum
Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore
Riding through the woods
Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore
With his bag of things
He gives to the poor
And he takes from the rich
Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore,
Dennis Moore Dennis Moore,
Dennis Moore Riding through the land
Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore
Without a merry band
He steals from the poor
And gives to the rich
Stupid bitch
This redistribution of wealth is more complicated then I thought.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
so-you-want-to-be-american-5-circles-immigration-hell
He would rather never live in the US again, than pay tax on money he could never spend.
Such a class act.
Not only is the entire country easily offed in one shot from various weapons, he picked a country that does quite well at extraordinary rendition.
While I'm not exactly in favor of the tax code, I'm not in favor of arrogant allocation of assets outside the country. I am in favor of the US Government using the DoD to nullify any jurisdictional concealment.
In addition, I'd like to see something in the citizenship/residency/etc. documents stating that you will not engage in any jurisdictional tax avoidance, even if it is otherwise legal to do so; the penalty being forfeiture of all assets anywhere.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
did you make up that username specifically for this post? seems funny
Taken from my post on another board:
http://www.f2bbs.com/bbs/show_topic/627995/2
"Loyalty to a nation is declining. The wealthy are only loyal to themselves, and the future will have them living as citizens of tax-havens. Multimillionaires and billionaires will no longer accept supporting hundreds or thousands of poor people who aren't even the same race. Yes, it does boil down to race. As the US becomes more and more "diverse" the amount of people willing to pay our high taxes dwindles. Successful Indians, Chinese, etc...they aren't going to pay massive US taxes. They have no loyalty to the US at all. All the well-off people with an origin outside the US plan on leaving the US once they stop working and take their wealth back home. People are just using the US to work and earn money, but don't want to invest back into the system. Of course the poor foreigners will all stay to take advantage of social benefits.
The corporation and guilds of the wealthy will eventually become more powerful than countries. The concept of a nation with a population of like-minded people is coming to an end.
socialism only works at all when your population is very homogenous. Once you let hordes of non-whites in, no one with money is going to hang around to help you build your liberal empire.
another thing to note is that religions/shared faith can produce groups of "like minded" people."
No, he should be completely free to come and go as he chooses, and to renounce being a member of any country at will. Allowing such behavior is a basic freedom that any and all should be allowed to exercise. What I said has nothing to do with this in the slightest.
What I object to is his using the US as a platform to grow billions in wealth, and then not contributing back when he should be. There are billions, perhaps trillions of dollars that US citizens have invested into infrastructure of the country over the last several hundred years, and that makes it a great place to start a business. The country has roads, a mail system, decent public education, and non-corrupt public servants. There are fire departments, airports and Intranet infrastructure. The country is stable, secure, and there is a developed banking and financial network. People want to live here, and there is plenty of highly skilled talent. All of this came at a cost that was paid for by taxpayers. And now that this guy makes several billion dollars, enough money that he could never even realistically spend it under ordinary circumstances, he abandons his citizenship to avoid paying his taxes. He is no less than a common thief, abet one with a lot of personal accountants advising him on how to cheat the American people. He is about to steal 2 billion dollars from the country, a country that worked hard to give him a chance at his dreams of success.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
It is money of the investors who are willing to pay for FB shares, and you are not paying for it..
Your assumptions are incorrect, he is benefiting from all the advantages that being in the US confer that were paid for by you and I. You think that FB could have got of the ground in a country without a government or infrastructure, like Somalia? Who paid for that, in dollars and blood over the last several centuries? The people of the US. You want to be a patriot? Don't try to cheat the system by cutting and running in order to save yourself from paying taxes.
I am not advocating that he pay more than anyone else, just because he has money. I think that he should play only exactly as much as the law says he owes, (without trying to exploit loopholes). He is saying that 2 billion dollars is worth more to him than contributing to the country that gave him a chance to succeed, and fuck the law, he will take is money and run when given the chance.
You say that there shouldn't be taxes, while enjoying all the benefits that the provide you. You are spouting off against taxes ON THE INTERNET, WHICH WAS STARTED WITH GOVERNMENT FUNDS. Show the strength of your conviction. Stop paying taxes, turn off your Internet access, unplug your phones, turn off your water and sewage and tell the police and fire department that you don't ever want or need their help. You and all the small minded fools like you that rail against paying the very modest taxes that are asked of you are short sighted selfish twits. Walk the walk little man, renounce all the blessings that society pays for with taxes. I dare you.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
Wrong. The USA is not the USSR. In the USSR, you could not amass lots of wealth. And the "Exit Tax" should correctly be called "Reichsfluchtsteuer", or maybe "Dego-Abgabe".
Jealous some?
If Govt does it is patriotism.
If Civilian does he is a traitor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_hegemony
Casteism
I'm not american, I'm not living in the U.S. and I'm not rich. And I'm tired of all these "we're the 99%" whiners.
If you don't believe in the right to own property, then vote for communists and I pity the country you'll be living in once communists shall take power. Eastern Europe wasn't exactly a nice place until recently (when it turn to capitalism) and it wasn't exactly a place know for amazing cars, technology, military (they always lagged way behind the U.S. and it was all propaganda: basically their entire budget was spent on the military and on propaganda making believe that their military was top-notch).
The additional money that dude shall be making by not paying taxes in the U.S. is not going to disappear: it's just going to end up used in a way that the (corrupted) U.S. government didn't intend. Less money for the militaro-industrial complex? Less money for the socialist health-care system? So be it.
For all we know that money may end up being invested in part of the world that rewards entrepreneurship and research and that *motivates* people by not confiscating what they earned.
There should be a cap --a worldwide cap-- on the amount of confiscation any government is legally allowed to make to its citizens. And it should be low. Way lower than what this over-socialist europe is taking and way lower than what this "turning-to-socialism-America" is taking.
F*ck a potential exit tax. F*ck the U.S. govt asking to banks and other govt worldwide to give the list of all the assets of all its citizens living abroad.
I just hope one thing: that enough entrepreneurs and billionaires give the finger to both what the U.S. and what Europe are quickly becoming.
To all the people who have 100 millions+ (I only know personally one such person and he's not living in the U.S., nor in Europe) and who are still in the U.S. or in Europe: abandon you U.S. citizenship and move all your money to a nicer place while you still can.
I'm in the EU and I'm currently evaluating my options. I could move to Switzerland but I cannot acquire citizenship there: which doesn't bode well because it's likely Europe will soon follow the U.S. in this crazy big-brotheresque "we'll ask every single country in the world a list of your assets because we plan to rape you with super-high taxes". While Switzerland is very close and moving there is an option, I'm more looking at Asia right now. I already have one family member who moved there and I may follow.
As long as these socialist or communist 99% keep spreading this hate of the successful, I'm not considering starting any company in neither Europe nor in the U.S.
I'll keep my entrepreneurship-spirit for the countries who rewards the people who want to create jobs, science, technology, etc.
F*ck taxes. F*ck the govt.
Go Ron Paul btw (wish I could have vote for him).
I'd do the same thing, who needs to comeback to the states if you have that much money?? FUCK the tax man plus I saw him on that movie and he got robbed by Mark, he doesn't need to get robbed again...by Sam.
Yep, because it is a mess of a country. You want to get murdered by a jeep full of thugs with AK-47s? Perhaps, you would like to discuss your elegant views of government as you are boarded by some of their famed nautical entrepreneurs. Or perhaps drink some chemically polluted water because a 'captain of industry' upstream from you decided the easiest way of getting rid of toxic chemicals was to just pour it into the river? Don't try to make it sound like some sort of romantic utopian government experiment, because I am not buying it for a second.
Who paid for that, in dollars and blood over the last several centuries?
- who do you think did? Businesses. Individuals who built businesses created the wealth and that was the wealth that built the infrastructure in USA.
The government can try and take credit, but the government is only stealing the money and distributing it, including into government projects, and that's wrong.
Business are self interested entities. They will help the community when it is in their self interest to do so. They need a road built to the harbor to move goods? No problem. The city needs roads built everywhere? Fuck em. The Government can do things to improve society that no individual business can or would ever try to do, things that generate opportunities for new business to grow and flourish. You say that someone would have invented the Internet eventually, which is true. But what kind of Internet would it be? It would be a highly controlled, limited scope project for the wealthy. By designing something to be open ended and not just for profit, it created a bedrock that allowed the modern Internet to flourish. This is exactly the sort of thing the government should be doing.
I have heard people with your sort of arguments before. 'The criminal government steals from me' and 'Taxes are slavery' seem to be just a coded dog whistle rallying cry for people who just are too selfish to see beyond their personal wants and desires. 'I don't see a need for (some bit of public infrastructure), so why should I have to pay for it?'. There is a self-centered minority that worships at the alter of Ayn Rand's delude rantings, and they parrot her dogma in a way that would make a propaganda minster's hear swell with pride. Almost every time I hear the anti-tax spiel, it is followed with something tired like a comment about John Galt. Rand's writings where a hysterical over-reaction reaction to being raised in the worst period of Communist Russia, and should be regarded as nothing more than her personal attempt at poorly written psychological therapy. If you actually think that taxes are slavery, you should try out the real deal, and then get back to me about how awful it is to have to pay a few bucks to help build some hospitals.
I moved, by the way, I am not in USA or even North America, I moved somewhere much more aligned with my ideology, an actual libertarian nation (not because the gov't wants it to be, because the people don't want a strong national gov't and they don't allow it to become one).
I commend you for this, by the way, you should try to live your life in line with your beliefs. I hope you have a long and prosperous life wherever it is you have settled in a manner that is morally congruent with your beliefs.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
Facebook is a ridiculous joke. I can't understand why people use it or why anyone would invest in it. As for this founder dumping his citizenship, it just reflects how people of any means will screw anyone else for money. The so called 99% are only pissed off because they don't have money and if they did and were part of the so called 1% they would act no different.
"That's because they know what being fucked without lube leads to"
Well I must not be poor because I have no idea what being fucked without lube leads to. Are Americans incapable of arousing women so that they become naturally lubed? WTF is wrong with you people?
and what the hell is "the game"? YOUR POST MAKES NO SENSE
yeah because America doesn't have a history of revolutions or anything. Happens ALL THE TIME in, you know, anywhere else.
it's fairly obvious that you people (the true americans) never really would consider him an 'american' anyway, anytime. he would always be one of 'them'. So, I guess he is right to leave, tax or no tax. Again, 'true americans' are unhappy because he is leaving without paying what, according tot the true americans should be their cut. Relax, people. your country blows to smoke in Afghanistan in a few minutes more than what his entire share is worth.
IN other words, do not be all so holier than thou - you guys are just angry and jealous because according to you you guys are getting cheated out of your share. No one would have cared if he was not rich. So, you guys are not any better than what you blame him to be.
you renounce citizen ship ... you forfeit all assets and get booted the hell out.
If you have the country that made you rich the you don't deserve to be here or to have the assets you generated while here.
Additionally this should be classified as tax evasion pure and simple.
I can suggest one better - 100% exit tax. You don't want to be a citizen anymore? Fine, but leave behind EVERYTHING that you were able to accumulate BECAUSE you were a citizen. Try starting out life as deformed or disabled orphan in Burundi or Congo and see how far all your personal efforts take you. If you're so great that you don't owe anything to your US citizenship, then leave with the clothes on your back. That said, there are probably enough Americans who would love to go to Canada or Europe after our health care system has stripped them of everything but the clothes off their back.
I have no problem with people who want to leave the US, even for economic reasons, but to denounce your citizenship is usually reserved for those who hate America and want to reside in the homeland of America's enemies. There can be many advantages of retaining American citizenship while holding a second citizenship with another country. The tax consequences are not overly burdensome for most citizens living abroad, even those who have no intention of ever returning to their nation of birth.
Consider this...
If you lived in California and thought their taxes were too high, would it be "unpatriotic" if you decided to move to another state?
What if California decided to charge you an exit tax and sent you a bill after you moved? Would you consider that to be fair? After all, you lived in California and were able to take advantage of all the wonderful opportunities and benefits provided by the California government.
After you have sold all your property and moved out of California, you now work in Florida and earn all your money in Florida. However, the state of California says you still must report and pay taxes on the money you earn in Florida. They give you credit for Florida taxes, but they still want want you to pay taxes on your Florida income. Also, besides making you pay taxes, California wants you to give them the details of any financial accounts you have in Florida. If you don't report your accounts, you are subject to fines of up to $250,000 or even jail. Would you consider that to be fair?
Here's another scenario...
Let's say that both of your parents were born in California, but you were born in Florida and have lived there all your life. You've never even been to California.
One day, you receive a tax bill from the state of California. They claim you owe them taxes because both of your parents were California citizens, so therefore you must be a California citizen and owe taxes there. And they also want you to report all the details of your Florida bank and retirement accounts, with stiff penalties if you don't comply. Would you consider that to be fair?
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If you think the above situations are ridiculous, then just substitute "USA" for "California" and "Singapore" for "Florida". Then you'll discover that everything is absolutely true. You'll also discover why many people have made the quite rational decision of renouncing their USA citizenship.
The USA is the ONLY country that requires its non-resident citizens to report their world-wide income and pay taxes on it. If a USA citizen moves to Singapore, they are still legally required to report their income and pay taxes back to the USA. They are also required to report any financial accounts they may have in Singapore. A Canadian or Brit (or a citizen of any other country) living in Singapore has no such requirements. They may be required to pay taxes in Singapore, but once they've been gone from their home country for a certain period of time, they are no longer required to pay taxes there.
Think the last scenario mentioned above is far-fetched? It's not. There are thousands of American citizens living in Canada who have never even set foot in the USA. Their parents were American, so that makes them American citizens. Now the IRS is going after them and requiring them to report their Canadian assets (like bank and retirement accounts) and to pay taxes on income earned in Canada.
Instead of spouting ignorance, do your homework and you may discover why Mr Saverin's decision makes perfect sense.
The USA is not the home of liberty and freedom. USA tax policies are anti-freedom and out-of-step with the rest of the world. It's like telling a slave they are free to leave the plantation, but you still have to pay money back to the plantation owner. After all, you had the "benefits" of living on the plantation.
Some taxes are necessary, but if you think the current tax structure and bloated government is responsible for "creating the internet" or other such nonsense, then think again. Yes, the original internet may have been created by the government-funded DARPA project, but do you really think that we would not have something like the internet today if DARPA had never existed?
Do you think that the telegraph and telephone would not have been invented if Morse and Bell had never lived? Do you think man would never have flown if the Wright brothers had decided to stick to bicycles? How did radio and television come about? Did we need
RADIO: CBS News reported two weeks ago that tax laws changes (US) recently created onerous reporting burdens, to the tune of thousands of dollars in paperwork fees. I can't find a link to that news article, but NYTimes (ref below) also reports,
Increased citizens fleeing, passport returns, well darn it--it has been reported--they are objecting to unfair taxation. In a Foghorn leghorn voice, "I says un-fair tax-ation!
The number of people trolling loudly about taxes owed by people who use United States' elite infrastructure--please be properly grateful to citizens living abroad and not "using up" any of that 1337 infrastructure!
Reference: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/18/world/18expat.html?_r=1&ex=1182312000&en=a0208f4fcc1484bc&ei=5070
what Theresa said I didnt know that you able to get paid $6341 in 1 month on the computer. have you read this web page http://qr.net/iu8s
jeez-jimini-crikey! I know I'm late to this game, but damn, there's a lot of people who think he's doing this just to avoid the IPO tax bill. He's been there for years, married a citizen (according to the citizenship reqs for someone over 22), is working there, and is really just trying to go live there. And keep in mind, he executed this decision months before the announcement of the IPO. He's going to pay all the taxes he owes. You people seriously need to quit letting articles written be people supposing they've cynically guessed someone else's motives stoke your rage. Facts, people, facts. Come on!
People are entirely too hung up on loyalty to the invisible lines. I have no real loyalty to my country past wanting it to do the right thing for its people. I didn't choose to be born here, it was an accident of birth and I certainly don't let borders limit my possibilities.
If all the good people go due to bad government spending and high taxes, who's left?