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Depressed People Surf the Web Differently
An anonymous reader sends this excerpt from Medical Daily:
"Researchers led by Sriram Chellappan from the Missouri University of Science and Technology, collected internet usage data from 216 college students enrolled at the university. The usage data was collected anonymously without interfering with the student’s normal internet usage for a month. The students were tested to see if they had symptoms of depression and analyzed internet usage based on the results. Depressed students tended to use the internet in much different ways than their non-depressed classmates. Depressed students used file-sharing programs, like torrents or online sharing sites, more than non-depressed students (PDF). Depressed students also chatted more and sent more emails out. Online video viewing and game playing were also more popular for depressed students."
File-sharing, chatting, email, video games, watching videos--all those are the domain of the depressed, apparently. So wtf do the non-depressed do online, just read the newspaper and post ads on Craigslist?
What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
If you'd RTFA, you'd see that depressed people do these things more than normal people, and they chat in a seemingly random pattern because they exhibit an inability to focus, which is a sign of depression.
no point in waiting from some non-depressed (and non-maniacal) person to stop by here and let us know.
rewriting history since 2109
"Depressed people skate on the other side of the ice."
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
I read the title as "dressed" people. I thought, "well of course dressed people surf the Internet differently than naked people".
pr0n
Yay! Another correlation != causality study. Everyone jump to conclusions in 5...4...3...2...1
I'm depressed if I find myself surfing google images with safesearch turned off?
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Little disposable income?
That is why we constantly have apple articles and things about the latest android gadgets?
I would suggest that you would have been right a long time ago, but slashdot these days skews older.
I know you are just trying to shill for your crappy slashdot alternative though.
Duh! Slashdot makes everyone happy!
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
Essentially most Facebook users.
viewing depression as a fundamental illness. (Ie. you find yourself trying to draw stupid correlations to it.) Rather, depression is symptomatic of being lonely or bored. Would it raise any interest if someone said there was a correlation between using these web services and being lonely or bored? Of course not.
"Depressed students used file-sharing programs, like torrents or online sharing sites" Note the absence of Usenet in this list. Sounds like the bandwidth cap is the leading cause of these depressions.
What I want to know is this, why does it sound like the most social people online are depressed people?
Or, not insignificantly, being lonely, bored, or SLEEP DEPRIVED. Depression can be symptomatic of all those things.
If true, would that mean the RIAA/MPAA/etc, by attacking those who use file-sharing programs/torrents/online sharing sites the most, are discriminating against people because of their medical condition (clinical depression)? ~
There are so many variables here that it isn't funny. I frequently cringe when I see social science "foo linked to bar says study" headlines. There are so many ways to cut the data, so many internal biases that influence what is published, and almost always not enough evidence to definitively prove a correlation-causation linkage (small samples sizes, poorly defined data, poorly handled statistics etc.).
Gary Gutting (Philosopher, Notre Dame) had a blog piece in the NYT last week that tackles this head on:
How Reliable Are the Social Sciences?
So basically, people that are depressed look for things that might make them feel better such as entertainment from videos, movies and games. They send more emails to reach out to other people trying to connect in an attempt to feel better. If you think about it, should anyone really be surprised?
The "constant" Apple articles are usually negative toward Apple, and the Android gadget articles are often about $100-$200 budget devices. The most recent Android article proves my point--it's about a $49 Android computer.
I have no association with Hacker News, but I do find your dismissal of it strange, as if Slashdot is somehow at the forefront of technology news today. HN, Reddit, and other sites supplanted Slashdot several years ago. All I was doing is pointing out how Slashdot has decided to embrace a particular demographic niche to stay afloat.
Nothing depresses me more that having to fill in them captchas.
"Depressed students used file-sharing programs, like torrents or online sharing sites"...
Wouldn't you be depressed if you recieved threatening letters from the MPAA?
Makes sense to me that depressed people would do more file sharing. File sharing is a means to an end, not an activity in and of itself. It follows that a depressed person might say, "Fuck it, I'm just going to stay home and watch every episode of Game of Thrones and eat Cheetos until I fall asleep."
Breakfast served all day!
It's that they did MORE of it. I guess the depressed student sits in front of his computer 16 hours a day, while the nondepressed student turns it off and goes off to do something. Also the article says they suffer from ADD-like symptoms... constantly jumping from website to email to downloading and back to the web.
Hmmm.
I guess I'm depressed.
Actually it's more like "bored".
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
The internet is MAKING the people depressed!
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
I hope that your point is that not all depressed people can be lumped into one category.
People who have experienced episodes of major depression might resent your assertion that they got that way because they were "lonely" or "bored" -- or even "sad."
Breakfast served all day!
I don't think the authors of the study were claiming causation.
I wonder if depression is correlated with an entitlement mentality and ego-centrism. It is definitely correlated with a lack of exercise.
The Apple articles are often negative because Apples often does bad things. Yet, they make very good hardware (Typing this on my macbook air). Android gadget articles do also cover the expensive devices. The fact that you found one article does not prove much.
I dismiss Hacker News because it is crappy. Slashdot is no longer the forefront of technology, it just isn't as crappy as Hacker News. Heck, slashdot was always days behind, even years ago. Reddit is even worse.
"File-sharing, chatting, email,..."
They have it backwards.
If you watched lots of shared Hollywood crap, you'd be depressed too.
Watch pr0n, I presume? In fact, doesn't that give you endorphins and all kind of goodies?
I rarely respond to comments. Also, don't ask for clarifications: a brain and Google are faster, believe me!
I have been dealing with depression for a long while now, and I do find that I spend most of my spare time doing one or more of those.
File-sharing, chatting, email, video games, watching videos--all those are the domain of the depressed, apparently. So wtf do the non-depressed do online, just read the newspaper and post ads on Craigslist?
Hey buddy, I just want you to know that it does get better. Really -- I'm not just saying that. And also, there's no shame in talking to your doctor about how you've been feeling lately. Sometimes there are chemical imbalances that a very minor medication can address, and that's not your fault. So trust me, and just hang in there, OK?
Okay so what were the non-depressed people doing? I wasn't aware there was anything else to do on the Internet.
or else!
So, yes I am a slacker and did not RTFineA. But from the description who cares -- there's no implied causality -- without establishing a causal relationship anything coming from the study fails become actionable intelligence.
coping mechanism. When your brain is telling you you're all alone, you do everything you can to feel some sort of human connection.
Sig withheld to protect the innocent.
Facebook. You don't need any other internet to be happy.
Except you're wrong. Depression is also caused by things like hormone imbalance (postpartum depression), prolonged grief, or serotonin deficiency, to name a few. In fact, loneliness and boredom are symptoms of depression, not the other way around (as you suggest). When depressed, people lose motivation, which to boredom, and have an overwhelming sense of worthlessness, which leads to loneliness.
When someone is deficient in serotonin, they find that it takes an incredible amount of stimuli to bring their serotonin levels up to normal. You know that feeling of satisfaction you get when you complete a project or task? Those who are serotonin deficient don't get that feeling, and instead feel overwhelmed by the very thought of starting the task. Because it takes so much stimuli to bring their serotonin levels up to normal, they seek out quick fixes, like eating sweets, watching TV, and playing video games simultaneously; or masturbating 5-10 times a day. That's just to feel normal.
So in short, STFU, because you have no idea what you're talking about.
Little disposable income?
That is why we constantly have apple articles and things about the latest android gadgets?
Why do you think the disposable income becomes so little? So many gadgets...
Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
Sounds more like they've misdiagnosed those with depression; they sound like they're bored -- not depressed
the study is rather limited since 216 students is a small sample. And how did they get the students? If it was voluntarily, then the sample was already biased from the beginning. They could not have monitored the internet use of a random sample without their consent without violating basic guidelines for using human subjects in research. The later rather severe in academic setups. It must have been rather difficult to get these students also because who would agree to have all their online activities monitored and analyzed.
Obviously they all study engineering...
So wtf do the non-depressed do online, just read the newspaper and post ads on Craigslist?
They log off more often and do some of the many things that are vital to all facets of human health and have no online equivalent.
My employer disagrees:
http://thehackernews.com/ has been blocked. Reason: The category of Hacking has been blocked by your System Administrator
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
"Fuck it, I'm just going to stay home and watch every episode of Game of Thrones and eat Cheetos until I fall asleep."
That plan sounds pretty rad, actually.
---
ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
This will sound like a troll, but it would be interesting to cross reference this study with Slashdot's demographic. Slashdot posts a LOT of Bittorrent and piracy news, as well as a ton of news about very cheap gadgets in the $100 range. I wouldn't be surprised to find that the majority of the demographic is made up of single, depressed techies with little disposable income, which would explain the almost obsessive interest in piracy, online rights, and cheap gadgets.
There's a sharp contrast in tone between the angry subject matter of Slashdot comments and the comments on practically every other popular tech news site. For example, Hacker News, where the demographic is mostly made up married, financially established programmers and Silicon Valley investors, actively discourages the kinds of angry comments that often get modded +5 here.
Oh, you're a troll.
Not my experience at all. I moved my social life to the internet, then found that your online social life is an incredibly aloof thing. Ever meet someone online? Me too, where are they now? Fuck if I know. Hell, if you use the internet as your primary means of communication there's a good chance your own mother won't answer your email. Basically, people are shit all excuses for companionship on the internet. Call 'em on the phone though...
When I'm depressed, I do everything I can to avoid human connection altogether.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
looking at porn.
So are they depressed because they're file-sharing and chatting or because they've missed out on pornhub.
I do all of that every time I go on the intertubes. I must be depressed?
Well, that means I would do more of all that...but then I'll be more depressed if I do that, so I'll do more of it..
Anybody with a brain could have told them this. Depressed people go out less than people who don't suffer from depression. Staying at home = boredom unless you find things to do like download files, play on line games, email, chat etc.
It's their way of coping. Once someone isn't depressed they go out more, which means less of the things like downloading files, playing online games etc.
People who have less money are depressed... so those who can't afford to pay for content are more likely to steal it than those who can afford to pay.
I'm LostCluster but I lost my password to that user. Hey Slashdot, how about helping me get it back!
Wait, you're saying people RL/Phone are less shit excuses for companionship than OL? Because I gotta say in my own experience they're shit-all in both places, and I've had just as good of luck with people I met online as I did RL, which is to say, pretty lousy. The best being 'I've been too busy to call you.' but when *THEY* need something they're blowing up your phone even though you haven't heard from them in weeks/months.
Society does more to depress me than anything else in life. Hence why I prefer to play videogames and veg on entertainment. At least you know WHEN those two are going to let you down. Usually at the end. Or if they're really horrible, at the beginning.
> Little disposable income?
The consistant theme in slashdot commentary is that the cheapest option is always the best one, whether that be OSS, piracy, or $400 seven-pound AMD laptops. Either this site attracts tight-asses, or (as I suspect) disposable income ain't great.
O-pressed. I've been in both places. Often, you don't feel like interacting with assholes who don't share any of your interests and only want to assert their authority over you. Down with the "depressed" moniker! Stop numbing yourselves with benzodiazepenes and SSRIs!! Take back our internet homeland!! For the gnu dawn!! :p
Once someone isn't depressed they go out more. . .
Really? I don't know one way or the other, but I wonder. For example, I would expect people who go out all the time, but only to get wasted and hook up with strangers, to demonstrate a higher incidence of depression. Just my gut feeling though.
My take on this study is that it may suggest that various internet "social" activities are just the latest coping mechanisms for depression that fall under the category of superficial and ineffectual attempts to reach out to others.
The bulk of TFA seems to be making the point that the more depressed respondents used the internet more, though in the same ways, as their less depressed cohorts.
That's neither surprising nor a bad thing since the main thing that people do with the internet is communicate with others. The primary problem for depressed people is feeling that they are alone and isolated in their suffering.
In that respect, particularly for college students who may be away from their homes for the first time in their lives, the internet is probably a good (and ready) palliative.
I use BT, chat, email, FG and even play WoW and flash games. So I guess I'm in trouble:
Come see the symptoms inherent in the system, Help Help, I'm being depressed!
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo! http://goo.gl/J9bkO
Depressed people don't have a life or money to blow on entertainment? No shit. Pull the other one.
That is exactly my point, that they cannot (ie. as opposed to the strict "brain chemistry" camp), though imo chronic insomnia is possibly the leading cause.
You don't deserve to be alive. I hope you die as you finish reading this sentence, you pathetic excuse for a human being.
I wouldn't even call Slashdot a tech news site, it mostly an angry political forum filled with techies, and the balance of the content is science. Hacker news actually has programming/programmer news, unlike here, where they might briefly mention a new version of Perl but that's about it.
It's called escapism. I watched vidoes and played games so I wouldn't have to think of my miserable life. Of course doing those things didn't help fix my problems, so I always ended up feeling worse sometime afterwards. But I didn't have any motivation to get any real work done. I don't do online chats and don't have many (if any) friends to send emails to (not that I would have anything to say), but I prefer online communications compared with face to face. It's a lot easier to write a response than it is to stand next to someone and try to completely hide your depression. People don't like being around other depressed people; it's depressing.
Maintaining face is extermely difficult when you're really depressed. Happy people make you want to cry because you're never that happy and can't ever get there. You also haven't acoomplished anything (you sat around for 3-4 hours being too depressed to do anything), so when people ask you "what's up" you have no answer. There's only so many ways to sound busy.
Pintrest. Twitter. All the things media wants them to do and considers profitable territory for advertisement and corporate promotions.
Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
If depressed people did more file-sharing programs, torrents, online sharing sites, chatting more, email, online video viewing, and game playing...what did the non depressed people do? What's LEFT?
-Styopa
eBay...obviously.
For a second there, I thought the title was "Depressed People Surf the Web Diffidently," whereupon I thought, "Of course."
Then I read it again....
By the taping of my glasses, something geeky this way passes
http://www.alternet.org/health/68043
it's an advertiser's job to make you unhappy. if you are content with what you have, and only wish to buy things you need, a lot of worthless junk would never get sold. think about how your (imaginary?) girlfriend/wife goes shopping to make herself feel better. materialism is condemned by just about every religion that preaches happiness through the "denial of the crystalline" -- to quote a Meshuggah song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IiP-Vdx_F8). advertisers want to create depression in you because it's proven to drive sales. you spend to fill the void, and the void is created by attachment to status and the expensive crap required to get it. all of this was true for tv, and now it's our interactive tv, the internet.
http://www.psychologicalscience.org/index.php/news/releases/consumerism-and-its-antisocial-effects-can-be-turned-onor-off.html
insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
Note that I do not believe you need to be experiencing depression to follow this plan, and I wish you godspeed, sir! I recommend something to wash down those Cheetos, though.
Breakfast served all day!
No kidding! It really sounds like an evolutionary psychologist trying to troll nerds. Hmm, perhaps they are succeeding?
When I'm depressed, I do everything I can to avoid human connection altogether.
This seems more like my experience. Cannot fathom "connecting" when feeling depressed; rather to stay in the house, put phone in airplane mode, avoid checking email, hunker down & wait for the storm to pass.
Oops, just broke my own guideline, gotta go.
I've had major depression for a long time, and I can tell you chronic insomnia is a symptom of depression. My dad sleeps no more than 5 hours a night, but man, is he ready to go during the day.
Especially with seasonal effects, my sleep cycle gets better in the summer such that I don't have to take sleeping pills to fall asleep.
A common cause of insomnia in depressed people is directly related to the medication(s) they take. Often times, those mess up your whole sleep cycle.
Also, you tend to want to rest more during daytime, so there's a vicious cycle where you don't sleep because you took a nap in the afternoon. Staying active is very important to mental health, just as it is to not being CowboyNeal.
Indeed.
I've been depressed lately, mainly due to unsatisfactory job, sleep deprivation (family = family + 1) and financial drowning (expenses rose, debt rose, income didn't, and that for years). And at work, when "new" projects come in, everyone feels excited, and I see no reason why they shouldn't. I immediately jump to analyzing the usefulness of whatever comes our way and well, frankly, most times I can't find any. I am doing my job, and I am doing it well, I just don't feel happy about it. As a matter of fact, I haven't felt happy in a long, long time.
I don't know what sort of magical substance I lack and I don't really care. I do, however, know what can get me back on track, and that's financial stability. Sadly, my employer treats me like shit and I'm spiraling down because I ceased trying to look happy and shit when going to job interviews.
So yeah, I feel like I'm pretty much done for. I browse a few sites, circling around all day long, I play the same game when I get back from work and that's pretty much it. One difference, though: I'm not alone. At home I'm with family and at work I'm surrounded by work mates. But I wish I would be alone, and not temporary, but in an "I am Legend" kind of way. Me in an empty world would be fucking awesome.
...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
What about an orange drink made out of Cheeto powder mixed with water?
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
coping mechanism. When your brain is telling you you're all alone, you do everything you can to feel some sort of human connection.
No. Goddamnit, no.
Look, you extroverted people have no understanding of us, more introverted guys. I understand most people really can't stand to be alone, and start wanting to climb the walls when forced to do that. Not everyone shares these feelings. We prefer interaction online because we want to attenuate the human connection. Being around people for too long drains me. Talking to someone online is manageable, because the person on the other side isn't taking up the entirety of my attention, and I'm free to do other things WHILE interacting. I get a message, and I get to ignore it for a minute while I'm reading an article, then getting around to respond it, then go back to reading the article.
One-on-one people interactions completely monopolize your time, and for that reason is very draining to introverts. You can't just tune out the person for a bit without being extremely rude. When I was in college, my roommate was another introvert. We sometimes, I shit you not, type to each other over instant messaging through our computers while IN THE SAME ROOM.
How do you know the 'depressed' people aren't higher up the Autistic Spectrum than average people?
I have Aspergers Syndrome (doctors diagnosis, not someone who simply thinks they fit the category) and I find myself downloading & watching a heck of a lot of tv shows and films, I do get into discussions online, I used to post to usenet and be a huge IRC addict 10+ years ago but these days mainly it's technical or humerous forums, probably because to be honest I just don't like dealing with people face to face if I can help it, I never have and never will. To me it's stressful having to deal with people a lot of the time, and I hate it when anonymous online idiots roll out the "you should get out more and make friends" mantra, ie "why aren't you one of us, be one of us", those people have absolutely no fucking clue about the Autistic Spectrum people beyond Rain Man, and that's just one fine tuned 'Hollywood' view of Autism.
BTW, want to watch a great film about an Autistic character played by Sigourney Weaver? Snow Cake
That's what I did with 'Trailer Park Boys.' Of course, I finished all 7 seasons, the pilot and I think 3 other movies and the 'making of' AKA 'The Hearts of Dartmouth' in roughly 3weeks. Watched 2 seasons of 'Life After People' in 2 days, all 120(I don't remember the exact amount) episodes of 'The Twilight Zone' in one week and countless horror flicks from the last 12yrs in the last year. I moved to where I currently reside 7yrs ago, have met no one and it gives a lot of times for video entertainment and video games....fsck, I need a GF :/
"That's right...I said it."
We sometimes, I shit you not, type to each other over instant messaging through our computers while IN THE SAME ROOM.
yeah ... here in the office, we call that "working" and we do it 10 hours a day.
Given the assholish manner in which you're expressing your opinion, I'm assuming you've got lots of scientific research to back it up with. Let's see it!
It seems the article says depressed people use more of this and more of that, but it doesn't say what they use less of, which indirectly contradicts the abstract that depressed users use the Internet "DIFFERENTLY." What it should be titled is that depressed people use it MORE if they can't actually make a decent contrast.
Researchers believe this haphazard use of the internet is a result of students having difficulty concentrating, which is a common trait associated with depression.
Non-depressed people use those things too, but they tend to complete one task before moving on to the next rather than randomly jumping between them. They're finding a correlation between ADD and depression, which is well known.
I have a shit load of disposable income. So, that probably isn't it. I just choose not to socialize with people. It is the people 'out there' that irritate me. They are all fucking morons and I'd rather not talk to the lot of them. This is why I am single, haven't been laid in 5yrs and have no friends to speak of. I have a few coworkers I talk to on a daily basis, but ONLY while I am at work. While a home, I talk to no one. I barely ever talk to my parents. Maybe once a month and even less with my brothers. They all live in California and I live 1500mi away. Some nights are great, others I tend to cry myself to sleep. It's a bittersweet lifestyle.
"That's right...I said it."
Officials and banksters have stolen more, killed more, and harmed more than all the depressed people on Earth ever will in a trillion years.
None of them obey any law, perhaps that's why people are angry, which the article mistakenly calls depressed.
Time to call the kettle black. Without the fucking DSM-IV shit.
Well that just saved me a trip to the therapist. Thanks for saving me the money...
All glory to the Hypnotoad!
forgive me if I am so conceited as to offer advice, but, for my part, anyway, I am how I am, and that is one thing they are never going to move me from. If there are lots of empty-headed, happy idiots around, great, power to them*, but that ain't me. I think that is among the worse things that can happen, being pushed to deny who you actually are / how you feel. Another major killer is denial of a sense or productivity. I don't believe it is entirely possible to block one from general productivity, though blocking one from economic solvency is fairly straightforward, and also a killer.
*Coincidentally, I have found that state of mind to be INVERSELY proportional to how much one is actually exerting oneself. And, if those are the ones whom the sage employers of this world prefer, great, power to them...
You may want to take a look at the following ted talk by Sherry Turkle. http://www.ted.com/talks/sherry_turkle_alone_together.html
It discusses exactly your point, and left me feeling sorry for the smart phoney's among us. The jist of her argument is that we only want the good parts of relationships which weakens relationships in general.
Here is a transcript that i have copied from the web. Hopefully slashdot doesnt brutalize it too much:
------------
Just a moment ago, my daughter Rebecca texted me for good luck. Her text said, "Mom, you will rock." I love this. Getting that text was like getting a hug. And so there you have it. I embody the central paradox. I'm a woman who loves getting texts who's going to tell you that too many of them can be a problem.
Actually that reminder of my daughter brings me to the beginning of my story. 1996, when I gave my first TEDTalk, Rebecca was five years old and she was sitting right there in the front row. I had just written a book that celebrated our life on the internet and I was about to be on the cover of Wired magazine. In those heady days, we were experimenting with chat rooms and online virtual communities. We were exploring different aspects of ourselves. And then we unplugged. I was excited. And, as a psychologist, what excited me most was the idea that we would use what we learned in the virtual world about ourselves, about our identity, to live better lives in the real world.
Now fast-forward to 2012. I'm back here on the TED stage again. My daughter's 20. She's a college student. She sleeps with her cellphone, so do I. And I've just written a new book, but this time it's not one that will get me on the cover of Wired magazine. So what happened? I'm still excited by technology, but I believe, and I'm here to make the case, that we're letting it take us places that we don't want to go.
Over the past 15 years, I've studied technologies of mobile communication and I've interviewed hundreds and hundreds of people, young and old, about their plugged in lives. And what I've found is that our little devices, those little devices in our pockets, are so psychologically powerful that they don't only change what we do, they change who we are. Some of the things we do now with our devices are things that, only a few years ago, we would have found odd or disturbing, but they've quickly come to seem familiar, just how we do things.
So just to take some quick examples: People text or do email during corporate board meetings. They text and shop and go on Facebook during classes, during presentations, actually during all meetings. People talk to me about the important new skill of making eye contact while you're texting. (Laughter) People explain to me that it's hard, but that it can be done. Parents text and do email at breakfast and at dinner while their children complain about not having their parents' full attention. But then these same children deny each other their full attention. This is a recent shot of my daughter and her friends being together while not being together. And we even text at funerals. I study this. We remove ourselves from our grief or from our revery and we go into our phones.
Why does this matter? It matters to me because I think we're setting ourselves up for trouble -- trouble certainly in how we relate to each other, but also trouble in how we relate to ourselves and our capacity for self-reflection. We're getting used to a new way of being alone together. People want to be with each other, but also elsewhere -- connected to all the different places they want to be. People want to customize their lives. They want to go in and out of all the places they are because the thing that m
As a potential lottery winner, I totally support tax cuts for the wealthy
...The grand converse fallacy, where people try to conclude from this that if depressed Internet users do X, Y, and Z, then if someone is doing X, Y, and Z, it's an indication that they're depressed and in need of "help."
Liberty in your lifetime
I didn't have it as hard, but was getting pretty frustrated seeing the same trends starting to happen in my own life. If I didn't beat it, I at least made some improvements. I did two things at once - changed jobs to get a fresh start and started working on an advanced degree (part time). I also was able to lean on student loans to float through an unexpected financial challenge.
I finish my MS at the end of this year, and I have to say the two changes really helped me. I was so busy I couldn't despair about life for a while, and the stimulation from learning in school helps offset for the (slightly improved but still) unfulfilling parts of work. Summer is relaxing. The newer job is only a little more fulfilling but does offer a lot more mobility and therefore will open doors for me--it's already started to do that in a significant way, and the doors are a direct result of the MS program. Now that I'm starting to see results and opportunities are opening up, I feel happier and fulfillment is starting to come again--it's not here yet, but I can see it again.
You may want to look into something like that yourself. Worst thing you get is you advance your career.
Um, I agree, but what the hell does that have to do with what the GP was saying?
Depressed people (people whose "brain is telling you you're all alone") do everything they can to feel some sort of human connection. Whether they're extroverted, and go to lots of parties, or they're introverted, and connect to people in a manageable online environment, or they're extroverted, and use online communications because the barrier of entry is lower, is irrelevant according to the GP's argument.
Sounds like you're jumping on your introverted/extroverted hobbyhorse without even checking to see if it makes sense in the context of the argument you're addressing.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
People that are extremely bored and that in all likelihood would like to no have to endure 1, 2 or 3 more years of boring lectures that aren't -in many cases- in touch with reality (spin intended) use their computers to:
- Have distracting hobbies such as collecting stuff (Used file-sharing programs)
- Chat with people that have nothing to do with their field of study
- Communicate with friends and relatives unrelated to studies.
- Role play and live more exciting live (Online video viewing and game playing)
- Entertain themselves with video
I can relate to them. I felt that way during part of my time at university (5 full years non-stop, about 180 lectures per month and 700 books later, I really really felt like escaping some "nights").
My advise is, if you are in that situation, know it's temporary. I can say that the "stay hungry, stay poor, my friends" from Steve Jobs isn't bullshit. It really means do what you like...once you enter the "security road to nowhere" it's very difficult to change. I had the luck of going for adventure to some other country, and that was one of the most rewarding decisions I ever made. Bake a backup plan, and then go for Plan A...trust your luck more than you trust your security (but always have boring Plan B ready).
unfinished: (adj.)
Just in case, we should start development on a "detect-chipper-surfer" iptables module to install on the /. server to filter them out. Better safe than sorry.
Someone had to do it.
Okay, so depressed people sent emails, did internet chat, watched videos online, played games, and ran more file sharing programs. It doesn't sound like they're depressed to me; it sounds like they're just more advanced users who aren't falling in line with the corporate-approved activities and making someone money for clicking on their stupid webpage advertisements. And for that, those people are being labelled "depressed"?
Please see a psychiatrist.
They really, really do help. You will not be looked down upon, you will be given specific to you help rather than just the generic "How to feel better" crap you find in books and online. Also it will not be the "Here take this pill and go away" treatment that you get from general practitioners. It might be a little pricy (Especially if you don't have insurance), but worth every single penny! This is your direct quality of life and means to make a living we are talking about here.
At the very least they will advise you on how to get out of this self-feeding loop. Without proffessional help (Your family and friends are doing all they know to help you, but they just don't know how to do that) you will not be able to break out of this and things will just get steadily worse. Take it from someone that have been in this situation for several years before finally biting the bullet and seeking help.
Finally if it gets so bad that you seriously start planning out your suicide, you owe it to everyone that care or ever cared about you to seek proffessional help immediately! Taking your own life will send the people you know right into deep depression themselves: Do you really want them to go through what you are in now?
Now you've got me depressed dude!
Maybe ditch some of the expenses, or better yet, declare bankruptcy and walk away from your financial obligations. It's worked for millions of Americans over the past few years and it only costs a couple hundred bucks to pay off FICA...
You guys making generalizations are both being idiots.
Some of us are depressed and want to be alone. Others of us are depressed and don't want to be alone. Many more are somewhere in the middle.
TBH though, if you're in the same room and are so 'introverted' that you're rather IM each other than speak, it's more likely you're borderline autistic than simply shy.
Depressed students tended to use the internet in much different ways than their non-depressed classmates. Depressed students used file-sharing programs, like torrents or online sharing sites, more than non-depressed students (PDF). Depressed students also chatted more and sent more emails out. Online video viewing and game playing were also more popular for depressed students."
I mean Jesus, what else is there?
Depression and boredom are two very different things. Yes, both are characterized by inactivity, but depressed people are inactive because they have less energy and drive, whereas bored people are inactive because they don't know what to do, or can't do what they'd like to do. Depressed people will often actively shun activity, while bored people will embrace it.
Major depression and the common idea of being depressed are different things. The layman's idea of being depressed is a short term transient condition that lasts at most a couple of days. Major depression is typically around 6 months from onset to recovery and involves significant changes to a person's health, sleep patterns, and social life.
The layman's idea of being depressed is nothing like being in a depressive episode, and if you've never experienced it then there is no way to describe why.
I mean, the folks who are posting on /.
Are we _that_ depressed ?
Meanwhile, the non-depressed folks supposed to play shoot-'em-up while cursing like a seaman (apologies to seamen everywhere)
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
A lot of life circumstances (especially lack of good sleep) can put us on a downward spiral where we let things slide and things get worse, especially as we turn to junky comfort foods. Here is some health advice I put together to help with an upward spiral, but it is true that it is easier to follow with more social support and community (and less worries over money): http://www.changemakers.com/discussions/discussion-493#comment-38823
Watch out especially for vitamin D deficiency and how using the computer indoors to deal with aches and pains may just make that worse as a downward spiral. Many adults need 5000 IU D3 daily as a supplement, as the US RDA is too low and dermatologists have gotten us to fear the sun. Taking vitamin D supplements is at least an easy first step back to wellness.
Also, eating a lot more vegetables and taking omega 3 supplements may help, too.
People may become obese eating "empty calorie" junk food because the body keeps searching for nutrients and filling fiber that is not in junk food, so their "appestat" (your thermostat for appetite) is never satisfied. In the same way, people may turn to more and more computer use when what they really want is something else (more human contact, more time in nature, more hands on projects, more satisfying work, etc.) -- searching for something they can't find much of online.
Good luck in moving onto an upward spiral again.
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
I wonder if "fake bullshit depression" which is really anger at having your trust and integrity, and personal power (choice) violated by society as a whole is linked to being smarter and more self aware then stupid fucking gits like you... I wonder if its also correlated with an ability to do what you feel is right anyway, regardless of the perceived or threatened consequences of your actions. Most of which comes from your peers who are mindlessly ignorant.
We are entitled, entitled to far more then whats been spelled out in our failing constitutions and legal systems. We are not entitled to be controlled and manipulated for the simple sake of another man or women's greed (not survival, but greed).
We are also entitled to label ourselves something other then depressed. To fight for what should be ours, and to crush all our opposition for something better. Just as you are entitled to label everyone around you and follow some stupid mind control schemes thought up by those who truly are your betters, but only because you place them as such.
You should be glad were torrenting crap media, can chattering endlessly at each other through our underground social networks rather then on the streets releasing our anger at your helpless asses.
Wow I cannot believe the reaction you are getting here. It seems to me that some people have a strong emotional stake in believing that "depression" as a category is completely unrelated to ordinary emotional, psychological and social states. I think partly this stems partly from a tendency among some people to reject commonly held opinion, and partly from a desire among some people who consider themselves to have experienced depression* to exert ownership and control over their experience by characterizing it in a very definitive and specific way.
*note, I am NOT implying that a person who claims to have experienced depression, has not in fact experienced it.
when did applying logic cease to be a valid argument?
if you find strong correlation that is the start not the end of investigation ..
strong correlation invites an in depth meta analysis of the subject, its not quit in time, meet me down the pub in 5.
its an extremely narrow sample from a small fraction of society, that isn't adjusted for socioeconomic factors.
the student population is highly unrepresentative of society as a whole, its an entirely different way of life.
http://news.ycombinator.com/ might work better...
Despite her credentials, it sounds like she did all of her research under the auspices of a forgone conclusion. A conclusion shared nearly universally (and at all points in human history) by people over 40: new tech is bad.
Yes, change is always unsettling. It *should* be unsettling, as it kicks us out of ruts we didn't even know we were in. But that doesn't make it bad.
The dangers of new tech create new needs, which give rise to new inventions. That is how the cycle *should* work, as the perpetual re-definition of what it means to be human is far better than stagnation.
I don't know about you, but I am keenly interested in a future where everything is different. So different, that my current self wouldn't even recognize it. That would be awesome! Especially if it involved practical interstellar travel! Woohoo!
So...people use phones a lot now. Big deal. People shift their focus a lot, paying less attention to the person in the room and more attention to a whole bunch of people who are not in the room. I can see how someone entrenched in old ways of thinking would see that as a bad thing. But I see it as a new thing, and where it leads us remains to be seen.
So you can definitively rule out that becoming lonely or sad for some external reason, would *NOT* increase a person's chance of becoming depressed? (because this would confirm the OP's claim, and be inconsistent with your claim the depression has purely chemical causes).
And there are studies which test this hypothesis?
/. IS the filter
rewriting history since 2109
It's hard to really compare the two, since they're aimed at different audiences and topics. Hacker News (HN, news.ycombinator.com) is probably closer to a combination of Reddit and the /. Firehose than Slashdot proper, so you get a lot more random blog articles posted (or "Show HN" posts to show off the poster's latest creation). In the case of Slashdot, a lot of those either get filtered out at firehose level or merged into one summary referencing two or three related articles. The better HN submissions usually end up reposted on Slashdot with a day or two. HN also has a lot more articles on startup/business type stuff with little programming involved, which Slashdot avoids.
As someone with a schizoid personality, I concur with these statements. Interacting with people IRL is both mentally and physically draining for many introverted people. We need time alone in our head to recharge. It is very tedious to focus on a single person while they are talking. We'd be the first to sign up for voluntary solitary confinement. (ok, that may just be me) And, yes, I have texted a person in the same room as well. Hell, skype is my main communication with coworkers even when they are sitting 3 feet from me.
You need a hobby. It's probably even easier to get one if you have a shit load of disposable income. Eventually you'll meet people who are interested in the same things as you and you can use them if only for the benefit of your hobby and develop relationships at the same time. Then, you won't feel as much like crying yourself to sleep.
Depression lowers your sex drive, so no.
CheeTang - it's what the brave astronauts drink!
"But this one goes to 11!"
Seriously ... throw in porn and I might as well slash my wrists now!
tl;dr: "Now that I'm older, I've decided that any change in how people interact is negative."
Move along, nothing to see here.
Not always. I had been depressed for a good decade and I think I had a higher sex drive during that whole massive episode than I do now. I don't take medications that damper your sex drive anymore either!
This is a plan to attack and label people.. I suspect this was funded by the *aa..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Have your blood tested for Thyroid disorder. Most of the symptoms you describe are due to Hypothyroidism (under active Thyroid)
We'd be the first to sign up for voluntary solitary confinement. (ok, that may just be me)
It's not just you. I hear horror stories about how terrible it is to be in solitary confinement and all I can think is, that's like my whole life for months at a time. Much rather be in solitary than in the *shudder* general population.
Or anyway, as a guy who's never been to prison, that's what I'd opt for, given the choice.
"All these years believing you're the signified monkey, only to find out you're just a big hunk of nobody cares."
Depressed people interact with others differently...
Depressed people also use handguns differently
though imo chronic insomnia is possibly the leading cause.
So, based upon essentially nothing, you've got it figured out. Great.
Maybe you could solve hunger & world peace when you've got a minute, m'kay?
More seriously, you might have a point in a few, rare cases, but likely you're mixing cause & effect. Depressed people can tend to sleep until it aches to lay in bed any longer. It's not dealing with insomnia, it's avoiding the pain of being conscious.
I do, however, know what can get me back on track, and that's financial stability. Sadly, my employer treats me like shit and I'm spiraling down
Wow, get a different job. There's no reason for your employer to treat you like that. Unless of course your work is shit, in which case you better improve your skills.
And sleep more. Not that it's easy with family++.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
There is being solitary and then there is solitary confinement. Much like yourself I also live alone and love it, but I see the difference between the two.
The main difference is control. While I am alone, this is the main beauty of it: I can just trully relax and do whatever I need/want knowing that I am ultimately in control of the situation. I can spend it doing various chores at home, indulge myself on the net, go for a walk in the woods and even end my solitude for a brief while to talk to a good friend when I got some insight to share.
Now immagine you are locked up between four concrete walls with a toilet and bed. The first few days (Week at the very most) will probably be nice and relaxing. Afterwards I will just simply be going insane from boredom. I will probably hang myself or smash my head open within two months of this.
Of course solitary confinement as it actually happens is probably different than just locking someone up for years with nothing to ocupy him/her. Still, it is very different to choose to be alone rather than being forced to be alone.
how did they link the annonomously collected usage data to the students psychological tests?
i spent five minutes thinking and all i got was this crappy sig
I second Lotana's advice. Please see a psychiatrist. It is worth every penny, even if you "can't afford it". A general practitioner does not have the same breadth of experience and will most likely just prescribe the latest thing that the drug companies are selling. If all you need to get back on track is financial stability, use the meds to get there. The meds will not affect the core "you", quite the opposite. You will feel more like yourself. You will still feel happy and sad, but not to the point where you are crying because you broke a dish. It won't bring you back up; you will have to do that yourself, but it will put a stop to the downward spiral.
Depression is a serious and often fatal illness, just like malaria or cholera. It is treatable, just like malaria or cholera. 0.3% of people with malaria die from it. 2.4% of people with cholera die from it. 2% of people with depression die from it. Would you go to a doctor if you had malaria or cholera?
Once you see a psychiatrist, they will listen to your symptoms, and pick a medication that seems to fit your specific case. It will take up to 2 weeks to notice the effect, and up to about 4 weeks for it to become fully effective. If the medication doesn't work, you pick a different one and try again. While this seems like a long time, you said yourself, "I haven't felt happy in a long, long time." Once your biochemistry is stable, you have a solid foundation upon which you can fix your other problems. If your biochemistry is unstable, trying to fix everything else is like trying to build a house on sand.
Finally, thank you!
You repeated this as if it were true. I can see how an extrovert might think it's true, but I can't find any backing for it at all. People who are seeking contact may use the internet instead of face to face, but that does not increase your desire for contact. Everything I have read suggests depressed people avoid contact.
The logical conclusion is that both you and GGP naturally seek out people, and cannot conceive of someone not having that urge to connect. Another conclusion is that you both are confusing depression with loneliness. Feeling alone can lead to depression, or depression can cause you to cut back on social activities, feeding loneliness. But they are separate. Introverts do not get lonely normally, and there is nothing inherent to depression which would change your loneliness threshold.
It was a sensible reply, and I would urge you to find some citation for your claim (quoted). You may agree, after being unable to find a citation. I am sure a few people do this, but I would expect a percentage, and one that is greater than 50%. From your statement, with no wiggle room I'd expect more like 85% of depressed people do everything they can to connect with people. Here's a starting point: do depressed extroverts really go to lots of parties?
Now immagine you are locked up between four concrete walls with a toilet and bed. The first few days (Week at the very most) will probably be nice and relaxing. Afterwards I will just simply be going insane from boredom..
I don't disagree that solitary confinement would suck, but for for me, it'd be because of the confinement part. Some people just does not have a problem with boredom part. Growing up as an only child, I have never really felt boredom much less any sense of loneliness. I'm not some weird anti social shut in either. I've always had friends and now a wife with a child. I don't think my social skill is terribly different from most people. I just never had a need to rely on it.
They are all fucking morons
This is your problem. If you can invert your attitude and consider yourself lucky to be so intelligent, rather than being angry that everyone else is so stupid, then you have it licked.
Easier said than done of course. The issue is that some people, like you, are outliers from the norm, yet (mostly) all people have the same need for social interaction and validation. If you are one of these outliers it very naturally leads to exclusion, bitterness and depression.
The flip side is that people aren't necessarily as stupid as you think they are. In some senses, yes, but often they have different priorities and recognising this is important. Remember we often over-value the things that are our own strengths, it helps build self-esteem, but you may have to compromise your priorities to become content.
Otherwise, there are definitely a lot of people out there at your level, and with the internet they are easily accessible. Seriously look into hobbies that will attract people with similar outlooks to you and, if available, a real-life group is far more valuable here.
Introverted does not mean "shy". It means that you interact with people differently. Essentially the GP is correct: for an introvert, dealing with people drains your energy. Extroverts, on the other hand, get energy from interacting with others.
As a fellow introvert who is not shy, I can completely understand why you would want to IM instead of chat while in the same room. When you're concentrating on something (which introverts tend to do more often than extroverts), interruptions can be destructive to the thought process. Actually, my significant other does something similar, where she'll send me links to videos she thinks are funny rather than demanding I watch them right then and there even though we're in the same home office.
If you're interested in learning more, I highly recommend the book The Introvert Advantage by Marti Olsen Laney. It goes into some of the practical explanations for why introverts are the way they are, and delves a bit into the science behind it. Great for introverts who want to understand themselves, and for extroverts to get some kind of understanding why introverts act the way they do.
Brian "Psychochild" Green
MMO developer's blog
You repeated this as if it were true
Yes. It is true. The statement itself may or may not be true, but the fact that that's what the GP was claiming, is. I was clarifying that by the statement "brain is telling you you're all alone", the GP was referring to depressed people. I make no determination whatsoever to the truth or falsity of the GPs claim, just that the LateArthurDent didn't adequately address the claim.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
By reason of depression.
No they didn't claim it only has purely chemical causes. They also mentioned prolonged grief which is an external cause.
This is true, social interaction IRL costs money, if you have depression you are unfortunately quite likely poor as well, which also means you dont have the money to do IRL activities which means you get more depressed and even more confined in your own room with the cheap computer activity.
They log off more often and do some of the many things that are vital to all facets of human health and have no online equivalent.
What the...?
They log off more often and do some of the many things that are vital to all facets of human health and have no online equivalent.
Blasphemer, mod him down!
I do, however, know what can get me back on track, and that's financial stability. Sadly, my employer treats me like shit and I'm spiraling down because I ceased trying to look happy and shit when going to job interviews.
Your situation sounds awfully familiar. Too familiar. I've been being treated for chronic depression for the last 2.5 years - and looking back, I've been suffering from it much longer than that. I'm not going to offer any magic solution, because I don't have any. For me, depression is like living in a grey fog. You only have two emotions; totally flat, and angry. Most of the time, you just feel numb. You fake it because you have to, but a lot of the time you wish everyone would just go away and leave you alone. You do repetitive simple things like watch a lot of TV, play games obsessively, try to be Right On The Internet, eat crappy food. Doing any major is a massive effort, and you procastinate a lot. At work, it's never enough - I do my best, but there's always more work to do than I have time to do, so you end up staying ever later at the office to try and keep up. You feel like a failure at life. It's your fault. It's all your fault. And then there's the angry phase. Your boss is a moron, your coworkers are useless. Your pay sucks, you do a great job and nobody cares. Fuck em all.
But here's two things I have learned.
1) Depression screws with your head. It really does. You can't trust your own judgment. It's really hard to accept, and I still regularly catch myself making the mistake of thinking that I'm being rational. But I'm not. My own mind is screwing with me, all the time. For the longest time, I didn't think I was depressed; it's just I was the failure, and should learn to suck it up. It's the most insidious thing, and for someone like me who's only asset has been my brain (I'm very good at what I do, sysadmin) to realize that was quite a shock. But it eventually got so bad where it was a huge struggle to do anything at all, that I finally looked for help.
The point is, my emotions are real, how I feel (or when I don't care) is real, and it's a response to long-term heavy stress - but it's an emotional response to my problems, not an objective one. And I can't tell the difference. It feels like I'm making rational decisions, that how I feel is due to the pressures of family and work and money - but they're not. Which leads onto
2) It can, and does get better. Medication for me helps me with the symptoms. It's not a cure by any stretch, but it does give me space and time and a relief from the pressure. They're not happy pills. They're 'give me some perspective' pills. I'm still working with the docs to try and unscramble my head, and its very much a work in progress. CBT - Cognitive Behavioural Therapy - has the same statistically benefit for Depression as medication for mild cases, and I recommend it, though medication is still better for more severe depression. Finding the one that works best for you though is basically experimentation. It's not an area that's particularly well understood (since society frowns on experimenting too much with living brains directly) so meds are a bit of a potluck. They also have significant side effects. Though for me, the benefits of not feeling like I just want the whole world to go away - which is a short step from thinking of ways to exiting the problem - outweight the cost.
The last thing is - I was talking to my colleagues the other day that I've been friends with for years, and they were saying they loved their job, that it's the best they've ever had, which rather drew me up short. I hate my job, I hate my boss, I hate my pay, it's a daily struggle to go in. I hope in part that that makes me a good supervisor; strictly speaking, I'm their boss, though I consider myself more of a department lead than a boss per-se. That I'm the one taking the stress, so they don't have to. But it made me realise, again, that my reaction to my workload (which admittedly is insane; 1500 users, 600 fixed computers in the
Remember kids, it's all fun and games until someone commits wholesale galactic genocide.
And dear god, there's a lot of missed words/grammar errors in there. Should have proofed it before hitting submit, but I gotta get to work...
Remember kids, it's all fun and games until someone commits wholesale galactic genocide.
Been there, done that.
Your brain wiring is changing.
Do let it become irreversible. You will forget what it is to laugh from your heart or smile warmly or feel the warmth in someone else's smile.
Is your wife demanding / overly picky?
If yes, you need to take *her* to counselling
If no, then you need to go and learn how to see her for a good wife that she is.
The spouse can support you like no one else can - Only a sibling or grandparent can do better - which modern life doesnt allow often.
If I had a laptop and internet in that cell, I think I could handle solitary confinement for quite some time. I'd teach myself new programming languages or undertake some other project. No other people needed. Failing that, access to a good dead tree library could sustain me for a shorter period. Yes I'd still come out of there weird(er), probably a little pre-clinically psychotic, and would need to rebuild social skills.
It follows that a depressed person might say, "Fuck it, I'm just going to stay home and watch every episode of Game of Thrones and eat Cheetos until I fall asleep."
fuck, I just realized that I'm depressed.
Skype? You mean you want to *look* at them as well as talk? That means body language. I prefer gchat, email and voice conferencing. No body language.
Good idea... for an American, which I'm not. if I would have been, I probably wouldn't have gotten depressed, because I'm not really asking for or expecting anything else than a decent life. I don't own a house or a car, nor do I aim for them. renting is fine. Public transportation is good enough.
All I was trying to accomplish was offering decent living standards to my family. Lately it's been particularly difficult to achieve that. Expenses? Rent, bills, food. The problem stems from parity adjustment between the local currency and EUR. Shortly put, 5 years ago my income (in EUR) was 43% higher than right now. It didn't change mathematically, as far as local currency is involved, but the parity towards EUR went down the drain, and pretty much every price in this fucking country respects EUR value, but are expressed in local currency.
Say a loaf of bread was 0.5 RON 5 years ago. Now it's 0.8 or 0.9 RON. Rent was 300 EUR, it's still 300 EUR a month, but I'm not paid in EUR and when I exchange RON for EUR, I pay more RON for rent every month. During last year, it went up 18% because of that.
The company I work for doesn't give a shit. I got 5.5% "raise" over 5 years while the RON/EUR parity dropped 43% over the same period. During this time, I was "promoted" twice and got a shitload of gamification badges (which I currently hate). I asked for some more projects, I work 5 PM to 2 AM local time and I also work every damn Sunday to boost my income just enough to stay afloat. But that's just becoming to not be enough anymore, again.
Applying for jobs was depressing too, mainly because the hiring process around here is a fucking mess. here's an example of fucked up requirements for a pretty low-payment job:
Technical skills required for automation
- JSP + Java SE / beginner
- Php / beginner
- MySQL / PhpMyAdmin
- MsSQL / advanced
- Linux shell scripting / beginner
- C++ / beginner
- Knowledge of Oracle, MS SQL and My SQL databases. Good understanding of database dynamics. Experience with Toad is a plus.
- Knowledge of Visual Basic for Applications. Good knowledge of Microsoft Excel.
- Familiarity with the following technologies: XML, Java Script, HTML, PHP. Understanding of AJAX is a plus.
(Optional) technical skills:
- Action Script & Flex - Eclipse AXDT
- Java SE - Swing
(Optional) knowledge of:
- Object Oriented Programming
- AJAX
- Template Matching
- Windows Server
(Optional) experience with :
- Citrix
- Oracle VM
- SAP Business Objects
Like, seriously?
What happens is that recruiters just throw acronyms in there, they have no fucking clue what they're asking for, hiring managers don't really talk to recruiters and I've been to interviews where the hiring manager was mortified when I showed him a copy of the job ad from the web.
But that's another subject, no need to go off-topic. Point is: job market around here is a fucking lottery. Also, a new hire filling a position I had 5 years ago (and was "promoted" from) will get paid at least 50% more than I do now, and yes, market requires them to pay that amount, otherwise people wouldn't apply; but what about more experienced employees? Well, fuck them, because you know, all companies do the same: they'd rather hire stupid kids right off college (and pay them well) because the government pays them incentives for doing so. It's called "encouraging workforce absorption" and shit. Good idea with bad side effects. once those few incentive years wane away, your value drops like a stone, and you better be ultra-specialized or wither away. Sadly, I'm only specialized in stuff my current employer needed, and very few others would need that exact skill set.
So I'm, stuck where I am and my manager knows that. Depressing.
...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
For that we would need to ask the financial backers of the study.....RIAA or MPAA? Who backed this study?
Real men don't need signitures!!!
I reject their ridiculous almost-a-scientific-study at face. 216? From the same college? All we can determine from their hyperbole is that college students from that locale who may be depressed , seem to gravitate toward filesharing on the internet. But since it's only 216, who could ever tell? We would need nation/worldwide samples, thousands of them, determined to be depressed by a reliable source, and track their habits for at least a year so we don't do it just during the holidays.
Remember folks studies are just to bat ideas around. They are not nearly conclusive evidence. Mostly just a good tool for fishing more money out of investors, rewording so you can lie in your advertisements, and giving your 7 a.m. class something to do so your coffee can take hold and you can get through that paperwork.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
I did all the things stated in the summary, and looking back at those years what I really sought is someone to talk to. Even though I spent countless hours on chatrooms, I never really talked about the problem; like games, they were just to keep my mind off the issue, but being in a community or interacting with people is what made me feel as a person, valuable. And as an extension of that, worth living.
Maybe it's my own internal safety mechanism, but I think what I was trying to do is embed myself with other people because my mental deficit was interacting and communicating. In real world, I couldn't make eye contact or keep a conversation and to an extent, go out on dates or expand my circle of friends. Games were a handicap in this context but never resolved the real problem: I couldn't properly socialize. While technology initially helped, I became too reliant on it like a pacifier instead of translating those skills to the real world. Subsequently (for me anyways), I became depressed. And the more depressed I became, the more I craved for socialization (or attention).
I got help, saw a psychiatrist for a few years, learned to socialize. I became focused on my job and started my own business. I'm an occasional downloader, gave up IRC for good, and spend more time with my significant other than games. I go to parties (still awkward but working on it), and socialize. I'd say I do 80-90% the opposite of the "technological symptoms" of depression. I am definitely *not* saying technology causes depression. I think it may even help alleviate it. But like oxycotin or any drug, having therapy alongside or knowing that technology is just a limited solution, helped deal with my condition.
I swear to god, I read "Dressed people surf the web differently." and I thought: Doh!!!
Having lots of sex with random strangers sure doesn't depress me.
But then again I have my bi wife with me to add that touch of long term commitment-y emotional bond to the experience.
This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
In a recent study, Slashdot scientists found a link between Game of Thrones and depression.
"Because it takes so much stimuli to bring their serotonin levels up to normal, they seek out quick fixes, like eating sweets, watching TV, and playing video games simultaneously; or masturbating 5-10 times a day"
So a depressed girlfriend would play video games and put out more?
Interesting...
From the article it seems their key argument is that depressed people are identified by inconsistent heavy Internet usage, as opposed to just heavy Internet usage. If this were applied to heavy Internet users that are also parents, have a steady job, own a home, etc, they would likely show up as depressed. In reality they can only be "heavy" Internet users when free time exists. Also, I wonder if the test is properly separating people who are depressed from those that are just introverts. Introversion != Depression. I would challenge that a lot of these people that are being categorized as depressed are actually just introverts trying to deal with the very extroverted college/university lifestyle. It takes a lot of energy for an introvert to deal with all those extroverted people, and a perfect way for them to unwind is to have some quiet time downloading, chatting, surfing, etc. Catching up on all those things that they feel they missed because they were feeling they must go out and be social. Once they've recharged they go back out and be social for a while. That could explain a lot.
--
Luck is just skill you didn't know you had.
coping mechanism. When your brain is telling you you're all alone, you do everything you can to feel some sort of human connection.
It's analogous to very loud out-going people being fundamentally the most shy and insecure.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
The differences between introversion and extraversion have precisely nothing to do with the subject of depression, but thanks for the rant anyway.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Except you're wrong. Or maybe you're right. The point is, you don't know.
One of the things that's annoying on /. is the whole "correlation != causality" thing. That's not to say that it's wrong; but it's a cliché. That's why it is painful to trot it out, but as an example.
If you find serotonin deficiency and depression occurring together, why do you assume that one causes the other, and not the other way around?
In short, there are no valid reasons to prefer one to the other. There are plenty of emotional reasons (for example, assuming that the imbalance causes the condition is comforting in a strange way, because it removes some of the responsibility for the condition from the one who suffers, and responsibility is hard for a depressed person (and I'll leave an emotional reason for the other way up to the reader). There are also economic reasons (the profit of the pharmaceutical companies and their billions of dollars of propaganda).
My guess is that things can go both ways. If someone is depressed it will change their brain chemistry, and if someone has an imbalance of neurotransmitters it will change there mood. But what isn't helpful in an ideologue ignoring the nuance of the situation and saying "STFU" because it conflicts with his or her ideology.
it's more likely you're borderline autistic than simply shy
People on slashdot have autism rather than being anti-social, shy, awkward in company, humourless and physically unattractive. So it's not their fault, and they can continue sitting in their room masturbating to Japanese cartoons and waiting to be hailed as the next Steve Jobs because they coded an unreleased new fart app.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
There's a difference between living alone and living alone with depression. I can't truly relax or do what I need/want because I'm not ultimately in control of the situation. I don't choose to be alone. The situation you describe bears little resemblance to my experience of solitude.
Not trying to start a pity party or anything, but you're describing taking a long weekend off of work, when I'm talking about months of neurochemically-enforced solitude. There's a big difference.
"All these years believing you're the signified monkey, only to find out you're just a big hunk of nobody cares."
It is very tedious to focus on a single person while they are talking.
Behind statements like this is generally the belief that you are far more interesting and intelligent than the person talking to you.
Grow up. You are not a precious snowflake, you live in the real world and have to deal with other people like the rest of us.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
As a fellow introvert who is not shy
I am in the same boat. I have no problem talking to people, I would just prefer not to.
I work like crazy throughout the week, but try to do something along these lines every Saturday. It's not depressing; it's therapeutic.
If that isn't reason enough to see a psychiatrist, then look at it from an investment point of view. Depression tends to cause withdrawal from social engagement, and professional success is directly tied to how social you are. It's also tied to your skills, ability to follow direction, etc., but social interaction is the primary indicator of professional success. If you spend ~$500 a year visiting a psychiatrist, and taking beneficial medication, it will lead to income levels that exceed the expense.
Ever meet someone online? Me too, where are they now?
Well one of them, I'm married to. A few others I talk to daily, much more than I talk to my mother, who doesn't use the internet. Actually I can't think of a single non-related person that I met in real life first that I still talk to...
If I had a laptop and internet in that cell, I think I could handle solitary confinement for quite some time.
I think that is stretching the definition of solitary confinement a little, isn't it?
With a laptop and internet access you could talk to friends/family/random loonies on chatroulette 24/7.
It wouldn't exactly be the psychological punishment (amounting to torture in extreme cases) that real solitary confinement is.
Oh, and it's nothing to do with whether you're introverted or extraverted, genuine solitary confinement is hard for anybody.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
"Fuck it, I'm just going to stay home and watch every episode of Game of Thrones and eat Cheetos until I fall asleep."
That plan sounds pretty rad, actually.
In fact, forget the Game of Thrones and Cheetos.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
The good news is that you gave me a plan for tonight. That bad news is that you are saying I might be depressed.
I did this last weekend. I wonder if I'm actually depressed.
I think you're talking about introversion, while the article is about depression.
"Fuck it, I'm just going to stay home and watch every episode of Game of Thrones and eat Cheetos until I fall asleep." Funny!!!
I'm considered to be depressed by most of the people that know me, but oddly enough out of that list the only one I do is maybe play video games and even those have switched to the more educational type. Not the interactive type...
I am definitely a loner, but I can totally see other people that are experiencing depression reaching out to others to communicate. It's definitely one way to relieve depression.
Were the depressed people more likely to be using Internet Explorer?
lulz, yeah, i do all those things man, i'm super depressed
yeah depressed people have sex online. ND people have sex in the real world.
I think you're talking about introversion, while the article is about depression.
You're the third person to point this out. I don't know why it's so difficult to understand that's precisely the point I'm trying to make. I apologize for not being clear enough. Here's the explanation of my post:
The thread starts with "WTF do the non-depressed do with the internet?" All the stuff that has been described appears to be perfectly normal behavior. It continues when another pointer points out that not only is it normal behavior, but they're pinpointing very social online behavior, which is typically not something people are depressed seek out. The person I originally responded to tried to say, "oh, but it is...you're depressed because you feel alone, but you really crave ANY type of human interaction, so you overdo it on the internet."
My answer was intended to point out that no, I'm not depressed when I engage in those activities, and I don't feel alone. I'm merely an introvert. As an introvert I've had many people confuse this with depression and unhappiness, and I fear the people doing this study might be falling into the same trap.
You'd be surprised at how many psychiatrists are money-grubbing assholes in bed with big-pharma. From 15 years experience. Just saying.
Wow I cannot believe the reaction you are getting here. It seems to me that some people have a strong emotional stake in believing that "depression" as a category is completely unrelated to ordinary emotional, psychological and social states.
It is. If you think it's not, you have not experienced it, simple as that. "Feeling blue" is not depression. Based on your attitude, I can say with confidence that real depression is unlike anything you have ever felt.
Breakfast served all day!
Now that is a depressing thought!
As an introvert I've had many people confuse this with depression and unhappiness, and I fear the people doing this study might be falling into the same trap.
I don't think so, as they are actually testing for signal signs of depression, and correlating those with internet behaviours. There are established indicators for depression in psychology, others for introversion and what-have-you. But not a lot can be gleaned from that anyway. One can't start hypothesising intelligently about depression just from one apparently correlating activity.
Anyone who generalises about depression is going to get it wrong. People get depressed for different reasons, and behave differently with it. Statements like "depressed people are naturally seeking human contact" are just silly. Depression manifests in a lot of different ways and we don't know much about it yet.
I hate you.
Give me your life :P
My life would be the antithesis of the above. My Degree is in CS, not CIS and to say I spend many hours a day on *computers* would be an understatement! Work usually ends up with me operating two computer systems at once. (one with each hand which is something I never thought possible at least for me) One is used as a terminal to the systems I'm in charge of as a project manager. The other is my interface to the world and work where I organize and prioritize my days and work. It's also where I do research, purchase parts, for work or home, drop notes to my son who lives wayyy down South and my daughter who works in another country because the jobs are available and the pay is better than here. She's like me in that if you drop me into a new area I can strike up conversations with strangers and easily become integrated with the new groups. Personal use is normally frowned on, but I'm both far enough up the food chain and do not abuse the system so I've never received a complaint. OTOH I receive so much work related e-mail the company has had to increase my storage to nearly 5 times that of the average employee. I tell them I'd be happy with the normal allotment, but there is such a thing as records retention requirements which varies from a year tot he life of the corporation plus 10.
I despise twitter and my list of friends on Face Book is limited to people I personally know and family that's spread all over the world. I also use Skype. I do not use texting and never have in my life. e-mails are sufficient although if some one catches me at a computer, IM is fine for setting up meetings at home or work. I use a normal cell phone with texting disabled. Yes, I have one of those 7 of 9 ear pieces, but I normally do not answer while driving.
At home I have a gigabit network hardwired with CAT6 and a 60 Mbs connection and usually end up logged into the systems at work for another 4 to 6 hours a day and no I don't get paid overtime. I work for good people, I have good people working for me and "most of the time" the job is actually fun.
Sure I play games on the computers which are all state-of-the-art with flight simulators being the most used. It's also something I do in real life as well. My wife and I actually do e-mail or IM each other at times because our offices are on opposite ends of the house.
When I look at the time and activities I spend on the Internet and computers I certainly qualify as depressed according to the article, but my personal interaction with society and other activities negates that. Most of those I work with probably wish I'd take up texting or spend more time on e-mail rather than stopping by to talk. :-)) You might call me gregarious or just a PITA.
There is also a huge difference between Introverts and extroverts and how these activities affect them.
I do agree with who ever said that spending time reading the news can be depressing. (I hate those dam videos) If I want to read the news I want to read it and be able to skim over parts, not watch a dam video. Often they give you a choice, but if they don't I usually just skip it. Animated adds and video adds get dumped in the "bit bucket" or blocked.
Technology can be our slave or we can be a slave to it. It depends on the individual. We may use it because we are depressed, we may become depressed because of it, or it may just be another form of communication in our daily lives where it's not a means of escape but lets us do more and talk with more people while getting on with our work.
There are established indicators for depression in psychology, others for introversion and what-have-you.
Unfortunately these indicators sometimes overlap. I did deal with light depression a while back and visited a psychologist. As I described what I was feeling, she said something to the effect of, "The DSM-IV lists 4 symptoms for clinical depression, and you gave me textbook descriptions of 3 of them" (the numbers may be wrong, I remember there was just one symptom I didn't describe, I've never had suicidal thoughts).
She wasn't wrong. At the time, I was legitimately dealing with depression, and it was affecting my life. I started just randomly not showing up to work, because I didn't see the point of getting out of bed in the morning. I stopped going out with friends (and limited my online interaction with them too, although I'm not going to argue everyone does this, I understand it's anecdotal). I pretty much just wanted to sleep, and did manage to sleep a good 16 hours a day often. The depression came about after I lost a grandmother who was very close to me, and I had been lucky enough to not have had any experience with death in all of my childhood. I didn't really learn to deal with grief.
Eventually, I did grieve, I dealt with it, and I went back to being myself. The psychiatrist insisted that, although I had shown tremendous signs of improvement, my low levels of socialization were still indicative of depression. I know what you're thinking: maybe I was / am still dealing with depression, and the problem is that I've been doing the misdiagnosing and calling it introversion instead. Thing is, I'm actually a very happy person. And I like interacting with people. The difference is that I need to recharge with some alone time after the interaction.
Here's a good analogy. I like to run. For roughly 5 years or so, my routine involves running 3 times a week. Two of those times, I run 3 miles, on Saturdays, I ran 4 miles. When I skip running, I miss it, and I want to do it again. However, if I tried running past the 4 miles I'm used to, I'll be tired, and I'll enjoy it less. I could manage to run 5 miles. If I absolutely decided it was necessary for me to run 6 miles, I could do it right now, but my pace would suffer significantly for that last mile. I would, in fact, hate that last mile.
Same thing happens to me in dealing with people. I love to get together with my friends and hanging out for a few hours. If there are too many people, I start enjoying it less. If it lasts too long, I started hating it, and I want to just leave. The other day, I was hosting an all-day event at my place, and I was having a blast for most of it. I expected everyone to get tired and clear out by 8pm or so, but there were still there at 11pm. By that point, people would start talking to me, and I would put on a happy face, but all the while I'd be thinking, "I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY. FUCKING GO HOME!"
The psychiatrist couldn't tell the difference between me just not having the energy for more social interaction and still being depressed. She kept pushing me to just try to get out more, and until I made the realization myself that I was fine, I kept trying to do so, and as a result was just in a bad mood more often than not, because I wasn't getting my necessary alone time. Once I realized this was going on, I stopped getting therapy, and went back to having a normal, happy life.
She wasn't a bad psychiatrist. The thing is, I really was depressed in the beginning, and because some of the symptoms overlap with normal introvert behavior, it's hard to tell where one begins and the other ends. However, what you absolutely can't do is assume that when people are doing more online interactions than real-life interactions, they are "starved for human interaction." Maybe that's the case, but it's not necessarily so.
At times I enjoy being all alone for a day or so to recharge before going back into the "grind"
216? And this was done at a college?
C'mon.
There's a difference between living alone and living alone with depression.
Precisely!
Doesn't it seem strange that you choose to compare depression to "Feeling blue"? In normal discourse, "feeling blue" would be one of the mildest terms used to indicate a negative state of mind. Could it be that you are using rhetoric to emphasize the distinction between "depression" and other states of mind?
I have no reason to believe that other people have experienced something I haven't. But I have reason to believe that (A) people will tend to exaggerate the uniqueness of what they experience, and (B) people will want to construct hard categories for their experiences even when none exist. Given these biases, wouldn't you want to rely on evidence, rather than people's potentially biased claims? And where is the evidence that depression does *not* lie on a spectrum of emotional states, which includes fairly ordinary ones?
All the things bigmedia wants them to do and...
FTFY
For example, Hacker News, where the demographic is mostly made up married, financially established programmers and Silicon Valley investors>
Seriously dude, the you're comparing /. with Y Combinator news site? HN seems mostly full of bloodthirsty B-school twits. Can't recall the last time I read an actually-insightful comment there.
Either this site attracts tight-asses, or (as I suspect) disposable income ain't great.
You've never met any self-made rich people, have you?
It is very tedious to focus on a single person while they are talking.
Behind statements like this is generally the belief that you are far more interesting and intelligent than the person talking to you.
Grow up. You are not a precious snowflake, you live in the real world and have to deal with other people like the rest of us.
It's not like that at all. In fact, you should take your own advice and stop interpreting what people say in such a way that diminishes them and makes you appear superior.
Draining of energy when interacting with others means exactly that. I love running. When I don't run, I miss it. I love hanging out with people, and if I don't, I miss it. However, the longer I run, the more tired I get, and I'm required to stop running. The first few hours hanging out and talking with people are fun for me, but if it goes on too long, or if there are just too many people at the same time, I start getting tired. I need to get the hell out. It becomes difficult to focus, where before it was pleasant. This doesn't happen when interacting online, because I'm not focusing on them exclusively.
It's not a statement about the other person at all, it's just that, for us introverts, we can only take so much interaction before we need some alone time to recharge and relax.
Cock. You are.
I see myself sooooo much in your post. I too think me in an empty world would be fucking awesome. But really I feel the best thing for this planet would be for humans to become extinct, I know a little off topic.
I think that's going to happen pretty soon. Too bad they'll drag the whole fucking planet along with them.
...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
Try.