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Sci-fi Writer Elizabeth Moon Believes Everyone Should Be Chipped
Bob the Super Hamste writes "The BBC has an opinion piece from science fiction writer Elizabeth Moon who believes that everyone should be chipped or barcoded at birth. Her reasoning is that it would prevent identification mistakes and even allow soldiers to identify combatants from non-combatants. Her comments came as part of a discussion on future wars hosted by the BBC World Service."
Horrible, dystopian, inevitable.
We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
Dont forget to put them in prison exactly after their birth, because, we will know from the very beginning who is the robber, killer, gangster, etc.... Why stop here? Why not give them the appropriate degree and job once they are born, then i wonder, what would be the future assignment of the "Pizza Delivery Boy"? Any guesses? Fry, you shut up, we already know your case.
I'd rather be misidentified than have my ID chip blacklisted. Do something the government doesn't like? They disable your chip... then you're screwed. No thanks.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Oh, I'm sure parliament has some sort of plan to do just that. It will be under the guise of helping to track children kidnapped by terrorists and forced into the sex trade.
It's called DNA.
I am not a number.
Kindly STFU.
One sec....k, i am done, my black list has a new member. Thank you slashdot, for helping me update my database of "DO NOT READ" list.
A Sci-fi writer who has never read any dystopian science fiction ever, how odd.
I have been a serious fan of Elizabeth Moon for years - she is an awesome SciFi author; however, this is just nuts! Sure it would eliminate a lot of mis-identification cases, but I would bet that 10 seconds after they started to do this, there would be those who would get theirs replaced with other peoples' id chips. Talk about identity theft! "Honestly officer! That could not have been me that robbed that bank!"...
...can go fuck herself.
It takes a nut to write sci-fi. Not that I don't appreciate what sci-fi writers contribute. Let's just keep them out any position of influence,
I do believe that my bottom makes a lot better sound, and it is even with reason, unlike you, parent troll.
To bring up Hitler?
If you mod me down the terrorists will have won
There's sound reasoning in her statements
No, there isn't. I've read more reasonable statements coming out of the PR offices of Scientology.
Luckily, the Constitution still applies to everyone, including babies. And the Supreme Court has ruled on it, too.
Elizabeth Moon has the right to chip herself, but she cannot force anyone else to do so, except maybe her own children, until they reach the age of Majority.
Bonus: captcha is Aliens
I'm not even a smart guy and I can put 2 and 2 together here. ,............ this screams "please read my books" or "I have a new book coming, I need my name out there in popular culture for a couple of weeks!"
NOTE: "Sci-fi writer"
We're better than this aren't we?
...when she was attacked by the FailFandom brigade for comments ever-so-mildly critical of Islam.
But I strongly oppose this. A government with the power to barcode everyone at birth is the sort of government powerful enough to commit just about any abuse of its citizens. And the well-connected will still be able to get data related to their barcode altered for their benefit.
I'll pass on the Panopticon society, thank you. And strong private property laws are the first step from preventing it from happening.
Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)
http://www.lawrenceperson.com/
(a) a chip can be replaced
(b) a tattoo won't help people who have had "an accident" (bad burn or other physical trauma)
In the end there'll still be ways to circumvent this tech, we'll still have identity theft and outright identity forgrery.
Proving identity with *zero* chance of fraud or accidental misidentification is not solved so easily.
Elizabeth , as a well published SF writer, should have known better.
a chip or a barcode on the skin...
oh, wait.
coding is life
Consider the logistics of this. Globally. Every person on the planet gets a chip. The nomads in the Sahara, lost tribes in the Amazon, etc.... Think about the information storage required. It becomes, I think, an exponential data problem, limited only by the number of data points you want to keep. Do we increase them to the point where it becomes a simulation itself?
Let's say it was even possible to chip everyone. Life then boils down to a factor of, how much time you spend doing what you want, living, having a job, family, vs. looking at the ongoings of other people. It then becomes apparent that, those who would and could exploit the system, are only propped up by those who support them enough such that menial tasks in life are provided to them, which then affords them more time to look into the ongoings of others. Either way, such an infrastructure is impossible to automate given current technologies, but even if it was all automatic, what would be the point? Why archive everyones movement and experience for their entire lives without a purpose or goal in mind? Doing it for the sake of doing it, is really an exercise in futility, unless we were planning on having that information live on past the point that which humans exist.
Her Wikipedia page suggests she may be writing from an agenda
Hitler believed that everyone should be "Aryan". Not every opinion, belief or idea warrants attention or response.
So the primary benefit listed to chipping everyone, being able to identify and avoid citizens in war, only helps make something we'd like to eliminate completely in the future more efficient. I don't think I'll get on board with this, considering the consequences.
This is idiotic. No wait! This particular individual is un-scanable! Oh sorry my bad this particular individual is Not Sure.
I would actually love everyone to be chipped. The amount of wasted money and effort spent identifying patients across disparate organizations (internally to a hospital and externally) as well as John/Jane Doe emergency situations is frightening. And sharing health records between any possible entity, patient managed or not, is horribly complex due to identity management.
Just a couple of small negatives to the idea though, which I am sure we are all aware of ;) oh well, keeps me busy...
...Then you realize how easy it would be to simply copy or steal someone else's identity...
"Our country is not nearly so overrun with the bigoted as it is overrun with the broadminded." -Archbishop Fulton Sheen
Dear Elizabeth Moon:
The world does not have one culture. Many do not have the same goals or motivations as yours, some have a different culture, religion, history, sense of self, pride and worth from what you experience in your circles.
I understand how one comes to love one's own culture. It's obvious, really: you make certain choices and it suits you well, the natural conclusion is that if everyone made those choices, they would do as well.
This is wrong, and you should learn to identify the ways in which it is wrong. Hasidic Jews do not try to force their ideas on everyone else, we generally don't allow White Supremacists to force their views on everyone else, and we try not to allow other cultures to terrorize us into following their views.
We are not breaking the law, we are quite happy doing what we do, and we don't need to be forced into things "for our own betterment". You needn't concern yourself about our welfare.
At all.
Feel free to convince everyone in your circle of friends, associates, or community to chip, but please don't try to force your views on everyone, who may have a different opinion.
Signed: Someone with a fucking clue.
and driver's licenses to some degree.
Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, START
I can't see that working frankly.
a) It's in a soldiers best interest to shoot at people who probably aren't going to shoot back
b) No soldier is going to want to be identified as an immediate target
War isn't that organized in the real world.
Best get your affairs in order then, because you won't be living long.
The situation was described in Gattaca.
...that spells moon.
An inconsequential person has an idiotic belief. This isn't news to anyone.
even allow soldiers to identify combatants from non-combatants
Judging from most wars it seems that this isn't a priority. And if you do kill a non-combatant you just posthumously relabel them as one (e.g. insurgent in Afghanistan or Iraq).
Bring me her head.
If they put it on my shoulder, I'll be very angry...
Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
Only someone completely ignorant of the world she lives in- what battling computer viruses is like and -what deep seated and destabilizing animosity such programs would engender - could possibly proffer such a ridiculous statement.
This is publicity hounding and nothing ore, one hopes.
I'll likely get down modded for this like crazy, but I think everyone is over reacting a huge amount. I actually listened to the clips and it is clear that Elizabeth is talking about a hypothetical situation. She isn't saying she advocates chipping everyone with ID chips in the real world. She was discussing a fictional hypothetical situation she even states it "if I were empress of the universe". Plus she does discuss, the privacy implications, and it's very reasoned. Her main objective was for some sort of method to identify Friend of Foe on the battlefield. She even admits to draw backs and such. You guys are acting like she is some raving lunatic wanting to destroy your lives.
A chip that monitors your health and can show you direct evidence of the good and bad of what you do everyday would be awesome.
A chip for identification purposes is fine if you are a moron.
OK, I will then.
Also (the second beast) causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name. Revelation 13:16-17 ESV
The concept is hardly original to Ms. Moon....
Bar code on the skin? Nothing new at all. This is so last millennium. My high school shop teacher had a numeric code tattooed on his arm. In order to avoid problems with miss-identification, just like Elizabeth proposes. It was a little gift he got as part of the welcome package when he checked into the German Stalag.
I somehow don't think he would have much positive to say about Elizabeth's proposal if he were alive to hear it.
The Nazis did this in the concentration camps in the 1940s.
I doubt you could ever trust that it could reliably identify people as "friends", to say nothing of identifying them as "foes". Who's going to maintain the database, Santa fucking Clause?
...then obviously she's got an implanted ID chip and/or a personal barcode tattoo herself.
So, does she have a chip/tattoo? If not, why not?
It's why they almost always vote for the politician or party they perceive as "strong", particularly on cheap-shots such as crime and punishment, etc.
Women want strong people to protect them from the Baddies, and so are usually a lot less concerned about things like personal freedom, or the threat of Big Brother, et al.
But women aren't alone in this, which is why male weaklings always support those leaders and political groupings they like to think of as strong and tough.
There is no sound reasoning. We are barcoded from birth with DNA. The problem is with who manages and uses the database. If you're no paranoid already, you will be.....and they are after you.
Nos Morituri te salutamus
If it is a DNA chip, and can't be removed by kidnappers, I could see it working. Everyone just focuses on the negatives and the potential problems, which would need to be worked out. But, not having to carry money, a wallet, swipe my cell phone to unlock, any computer passwords, ID cards at work, no car keys, etc. would be a big benefit.
Here we are discussing her absurd ideas. This is a media troll plain and simple. Her agent is happy. Her publisher is happy.
How to media troll? One leads out a sacred cow and kills it. (In this case she has lead out the presumption of anonymity for innocents in a free society. We accept as sacred doctrine (and rightly IMHO) the idea that branding someone is an act society reserves for criminals. And, furthermore, that only a criminal society would brand everyone.) Preferably you kill your cow in the town square with a chain saw.
To slaughter effectively one has to have some kind of pulpit, some authority, albeit small. I saw a squib today about a preacher who proposed concentration camps for gays and lesbians. He did it on video. Some well-meaning people plan to protest outside his church. He'll get support and money from the haters. It was a classic media troll. The shock jocks and radio pundits are past masters of this. It is even a way to make a name for oneself in the sciences. With a weak degree one can attack some established tower of truth and get on Fox news and sell thousands books to the ignorant. So you won't get tenured, big deal, you can lick your wounds on your yacht. Well played Ms. Moon. You will sell more books. Go on TV and get some speaking fees.
"No fear. No envy. No meanness." Liam Clancy
This has to be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. let's see reasons not to 1 the Nazi's basically did this in the concentration camps. 2 it's a sign of the apocalypse. 3 how is a chip suppose to know who is friend and who is foe. 4 say goodbey to your freedom and it is just screaming opportunity for abuse. Could keep going.
So presumably in Ms. Moon's utopia, belligerent nations would send to each other a list of IDs of their bona-fide combatants? Before we count the ways in which that is stupid, shall we consider that today's "wars" are not of the traditional "my nation state can beat up your nation state" variety. Setting aside for the moment the fact that Al Qa'eda isn't a monothithic organization with a central membership list, are they going to send to the US government a list of their terrorists who may be engaged in plotting terror attacks on the US? Somehow, I don't think so.
The enemy will not be chipped.
I propose she start by getting a chip herself first then we will see.
For the tax man, you are a number, for the social service you are a number, for many other governement service you are a number, for corporation you are a number. All those use a unique number identifier rather than name and other characteristic. For science ? You are a number, a statistic too. Heck for medicine too. Prolly the only folk you are not a number for, are your local friends/family.
How about the identical twins, triplets, quadruplets?
Normal DNA tests won't be able to identify which one is which
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
science fiction? really? and i thought i've already read about similar story somewhere in the bible... no?
from the only man on earth called Elizabeth
Only if their prints are on file. If everyone is chipped at birth, their chip ID will certainly be on file from birth.
But wouldn't it be easier to take fingerprints and even DNA samples at birth?
All I need to know is: "Was George the Thickth brought up on the fairy tales written by this woman?" and I will have an answer for most of the history of the USA since WW 2.
I'd rather die.
Yeah, try barcoding 6 billion humans and see how that works... Kind of funny how the opinion of some sci-fi writer doesn't amount to a hill of beans in the grand scheme of things.
Revelation 13:17 Clarke's Commentary on the Bible: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark - "If any," observes Bishop Newton, "dissent from the stated and authorized forms; they are condemned and excommunicated as heretics; and in consequence of that they are no longer suffered to buy or sell; they are interdicted from traffic and commerce, and all the benefits of civil society. So Roger Hoveden relates of William the Conqueror, that he was so dutiful to the pope that he would not permit any one in his power to buy or sell any thing whom he found disobedient to the apostolic see. So the canon of the council of Lateran, under Pope Alexander III., made against the Waldenses and Albigenses, enjoins, upon pain of anathema, that no man presume to entertain or cherish them in his house or land, or exercise traffic with them. The synod of Tours, in France, under the same pope, orders, under the like intermination, that no man should presume to receive or assist them, no, not so much as hold any communion with them, in selling or buying; that, being deprived of the comfort of humanity they may be compelled to repent of the error of their way." In the tenth and eleventh centuries the severity against the excommunicated was carried to so high a pitch, that nobody might come near them, not even their own wives, children, or servants; they forfeited all their natural legal rights and privileges, and were excluded from all kinds of offices. The form of excommunication in the Romish Church is to take lighted torches, throw them upon the ground with curses and anathemas, and trample them out under foot to the ringing of the bells. It is in this and similar ways that the false prophet has terrified the Latin world, and kept it in subjection to the secular and spiritual powers. Those interdicted by the two-horned beast from all offices of civil life are also such as have no
Dear Ms moon;
Yes this will be fine as soon as we can trust every single person in the government... for every government.
In other words, we will get to it during the reign of Queen Dick.
(Hey Spider, Thanks for everything. Beers on me, or Bushmills.:)
Way to slither in some more book sales while basking in attention.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=identical-twins-genes-are-not-identical
Why prepare to have your sons and daughters Id when they die in war? If you have 18+ years to prepare for something, why not work on diplomacy? You have the time....
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
We need a transparet Society with Pure Morals and Good Intentions, distant reading IDs etc. We already see who is the owner of a license plate. We already have the GPS in our mobile phone. This is not that distant idea.
Navigating to the first link from the UK results in the following message lol:
We're sorry but this site is not accessible from the UK as it is part of our international service and is not funded by the licence fee. It is run commercially by BBC Worldwide, a wholly-owned subsidiary of the BBC, the profits made from it go back to BBC programme-makers to help fund great new BBC programmes. You can find out more about BBC Worldwide and its digital activities at www.bbcworldwide.com.
...no implants, dammit!
Table-ized A.I.
J. Edgar Hoover wanted this, actually national ID cards with fingerprints. I'm sure he'd be thinking DNA and RFID today. Back then, people railed at the idea of a Social Security number. That was why the government promised that it would remain confidential and only be used for SS benefits. LOL
NOT a sci-fi writer.
Anyway, I listened to the piece. At the end she said it would work in fiction. They do discuss the downside of chipping everyone. I guess the question is, do the benefits outweigh the risks? There are benefits, but the dangers posed by chipping are far greater. There would be no anonymity for the most powerful and spies. The apparatus of power would want the 99% chipped, but not themselves, the 1%. We already live in a police state. If your name gets put on a no fly list, you are screwed. There is no appeal even when the government fucks up. The technology is getting so we don't need to be chipped.
If you know anything about Elizabeth and her politics she is anything but a totalitarian. But as usual slashdot distorts and commenters blather on what they know jack shit about.
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
not only that, but the "nothing to hide" argument stops being useful if you stop assuming the police and the government in your country (especially the police and government from 10 years in the future) are friendly and have my best interests at heart. I may think I have nothing to hide now, but say the next government voted in decides to expel all jews, or first-and-second-generation immigrants, imprison all Islamics - they already have that data, my location, and means of identifying me, I'm screwed - and all thanks to the previous government who were happy and friendly and trustworthy and introduced this database and got voted out.
If our society remains ultimatley ad hoc and individual driven then a chipped id system is not required. But if the government and our whole existence in society is determined by the government's impression of our personal identity then we'll likely need to be chipped.
Social security numbers, medicade, welfare, food stamps... it's very hard to keep track of all that and fraud increases exponentially with the profit in committing it which increases exponentially as you increase the benefits across an increasingly large population.
And of course, individuals feel no need to protect their id from fraud in these situations. If it's their bank account or their money then they care. But if it's the government's money no one cares. And that merely makes fraud easier.
as increased socialization is likely inevitable so too are increasingly invasive means of determining identity.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
But how long before a longer range detection system is invented that can be built into drones and track personal movements so that a direct targeted missile can be used to crack someones head open at the press of a button. This will go down well in certain parts of the world a whole new business will open up forging chips and replacing them it will make car registration theft look like a poor relation. Or we have the Chinese hackers steal birth records of US 1st Infantry division, wars by proxy indeed no risk here - move along...
Who tried this before on human beings ? The Nazis in the concentration camps.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signaculum
In fact this is probably where the whole Mark of the Beast thing came from. Early Christians would make a point of refusing the Signaculum of the Romans.
I think that Elizabeth Moon and those who have such awful ideas about our future should be chopped.
"Her reasoning is that it would prevent identification mistakes and even allow soldiers to identify combatants from non-combatants." :D
As if anybody would care! Soldiers are not payed to care, they are payed to shoot the oponent! Also can I then like "tag out" of the fight, stroll behind enemy lines, and then "tag in" again?
Seriously, though: shouldn't the goal be to prevent wars instead of marking ppl with a "you can(can't shoot this guy" tag?
I like her books, but i think she is way off here.
It would not reduce civilian casualties, but it would increase surveillance and opression. Just think how this would have worked out here in Germany during the Hitler-years....
Revelations Ch 13
16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads,
17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.
who prays for Satan? Who in 18 centuries has had the humanity to pray for the 1 sinner that needed it most? ~Mark Twain
The difference between distopian and utopian is only in the application of technology.
Imagine the benefits of such a technology if there was no crime, and no government citizen spying.
Never again would a wrong blood transfusion be given, if you have an accident the ambulance would know your allergies instantly, not that there'd be as many accidents as disqualified drivers may actually stay disqualified. No need to worry about losing a credit card since the payment could be made based on the chip in you person. I could think of some good end-to-end encryption / verification systems which could improve security (auto logins on computers). Or how about the Bill Gates system of a house that is smart enough to adjust tastes depending on who is in the room, with art, music, mood lighting, etc.
The difference between a distopia and a utopia is the existence of bad guys in the story, nothing more. All the technology and its application is the same. The only thing which differs is who uses it and for what purpose.
Nuff said.
Of course this only works if you trust those who control it.
enough said.
GeoKone.NET
You can't put a chip in a new born baby, the body keep growing and the last thing we need is a chip that move out of place and cause internal damage.
Nano robots, that can do more than just identification, injected in the blood stream would be a better alternative.
I believe that everyone else should be chipped. Mwahahaha.
Isn't DNA better? changing DNA significantly is much harder, and just plain impossible with today's technology.
The stuff she mentions is easily removable, tradable, or hackable in comparison to making major modifications to DNA.
Just put them on people's right hand or forehead. The hand is more convenient, but not everyone has a hand. Everyone should at least have a forehead, though. Enforce compliance by not letting anyone without a mark buy or sell anything. You know, for tax reasons.
And be sure every code has a 616 in it somewhere, just to confuse people.
Filip J. Fry, is that you ?
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
At least she didn't start a cult, or become obsessed by writing about why nubile young girls should screw old men and call them "daddy", and yes, I'm looking at you, Heinlein's Grave.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Even in the future when everyone is barcoded and chipped they will not use them in war on the battle field.
Because it would be far too easy to fake and to jam and to intercept.
Loved her fantasy books, but I guess it was a good thing that i never read her scifi because she is obviously not very good at it.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
you would hear Elizabeth Moon speak at about 27 minutes into the programma. She speaks on this "chip" topic for 1 minute.
Prior to that bit she commented that anything with software in it can be hacked so she doesn't think autonomous vehicles should ever run without a human operator (think drones). After making her comment the various people on the programme, including the presenter voiced their opinions. All of them pointed out problems with Moon's idea. Moon agreed there were problems. She then also pointed out that spy's wouldn't be able to operate because of the chips and that intelligence agencies wouldn't be happy. Her final comment was "this probably won't work - it'd work in fiction, but not in real life".
She knows its not a good idea.
Why did I listen to the audio? Because UK residents cannot read the web page where her opinion piece is listed. Bizarre but true.
they way I hear it- a lot of people think the government
still owes them 40 acres and a mule
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
bitches like that need to have one printed right on there forehead so i never make a mistake of breading with you
problem solved
so one and a half million people..
looking around at other sources
I find that identical twins are actually near 1/300ish
which would be 22 million of the duplicious folk.
I'm not in favor of chipping... but 22 million is more than teeny tiny
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
Yeah, because no one else could forge your chip, could they?
She's a nobody.
And implant ir in someone else takes ID theft to a whole new level.
That and the story about 10 percent of kids having a duplicate social security numbers makes me wonder about the abuse potential.
What makes her think, this is not already being done?
She said too much, too late.compulsory chipping on people is absurd, and it's already in use for animal trackind and identification.
some people, for medical or insanity reasons, use it too. If I remembers correctly, Kai Byron from Mythbusters is RFID tagged. (no sources here, sorry, no time now)
I heard the programme. I get it as a podcast.
Someone is given 60 seconds to make a suggestion that would change the world. Has nobody else never had to take part in a debate? This is a mental exercise or entertainment not a serious statement of intent. The previous week, the speaker suggested that as people took too many crummy digital pictures, we should all be limited to one picture per day.
Go and listen to the article and get some context before criticising what we can all agree would be a seriously bad idea.
I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
Floppy hats and long hair across the face.
Would not help if the chip has RFID or similar remote detection capabilities, which was implied by the article. Your every movement through places equipped with suitable detectors would be tracked and recorded for later analysis. Probably all entrances to government buildings and popular public venues (even park gates) would be covered in such detectors. Persons passing through without a chip could be regarded as de facto suspects to be stopped and interrogated, and lack of a chip in any public place would become sufficient cause for body cavity searches.
Keep a faintly optimistic expression on your face at all times, brother.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
So we need a universal way to identify individuals? We have thumbprints. Moon could just as easily have called for portable devices to scan thumbs and identify the people attached to said thumbs, but she didn't. She had to make it all weird and terrifying by suggesting a well-known staple of horrifying dystopian societies. Oh how sci-fi writers have changed!
"Good grief, did you think I was serious?" Elizabeth Moon, at http://www.paksworld.com/blog/?p=1574#comment-38170
I love my silly fascist English brothers.
I think it's time they come up with a genetic test to see the likelyhood of growing up to be a liberal, lawyer, journalist, politician etc and then smother all the children in the crib that have greater than a 50% chance of doing so.
This person trusts political authority more than her own judgement -- exactly as she has been taught. She is a born "follower" and "team joiner", as most human beings are (this is precisely why government is the most lucrative business in the world). She has been taught her entire life that authority is God, and, as a born follower, she has wholeheartedly accepted it. She has been taught that as long as she appeals to authority, she will stay on the "winning" team.
Unfortunately for her, reality is quite different than what we learn from government's "marketing" department.
but...but...if I get chipped then I wont be able to become a crime lord. Which of course would be the stepping stone towards world domination. /end sarcasm
Is the people wanting to have chips implanted willing to be the first as well as there family's? Also I would not be surprised if there is loopholes that allow many in the government and the owners of the company's that will be making the chips to not be chipped or there chip ID information will not be in the same database as the rest of us for there "security" of course.
Privacy and the right to be unknown is basic in the persons freedom of life.
()-()
Tell me this was a stupid joke. If I can clone a cell phone, a credit card, and take over an SSL certificate, then do I really need an embeded technology that'll be 80-110 years old before it gets upgraded to identify people for purposes like criminal investigation and banking... cut me a break. Get out of the business lady!
"and even allow soldiers to identify combatants from non-combatants"
What? is there going to be some infallible registry of those fighting and those not? What kind of idiot is this lady, the military, criminals & the elite will always find a way to fool the system for tactical advantage, theft & profit.
so the MAFIAA can see when and where and who they can sent the bill to.
Hard core criminals might start stealing IDs by physically cutting chips out of people.
I hope she thinks though her stories better than she thought this through. Being able to tell combatants from non-combatants would also allow the enemy to find you and kill you.
...using rusty tools.
Ms. Moon should stick to writing (mediocre) science fiction. She is of course entitled to her own opinion, but I would like to ask her if I might be allowed to choose the chip that goes in her? I'm hopeful that she was just speaking "off the cuff", but put a chip in my body to ID me? I don't think so. There are limits to just how much autonomy and self-determination that I will give up to live in this society. That is one of them.
When I was in Sunday school as a child 40 years ago we were warned that this idea would surface before our days were ended. Next it'll be 'anyone who DOESN'T have the chip is a criminal'.
She's lived in the US - which, on any other day than today, is a police state in Slashdot's collective mind.
Big Brother is proud of us all, and that is how it should be. You need to stop inciting free-thought and turn yourself in at the nearest detention facility.
She starts with "If I were empress of the Universe" which is an important part of her statement. There would be a lot of things I and anyone else who wanted to stay the absolute ruler of the universe would do to secure power, and make things run smoothly with little disregard for the desires of the lowly "people" that wouldn't be viable in today's society. She didn't advocate chipping everyone now, just when she rules the universe.
Shawn Moore http://www.teuse.net
Of how much Sci-Fi is really out there and how so much of it is poorly written crap.
Sig. Sig. Sputnik
You first, bitch. Another stupid idea from a Sci-Fi author. How about we stop trying to push things into people, how about that for an idea.
Dibs on the name "Not Sure"!
Oh crap, I'm anonymous...
It should read "Sci-fi Writer Believes Shocking Statement Will Garner Publicity For Upcoming Book".
How about not having wars in the future at all, instead of trying to "humanely" differentiate between combatants and non-combatants.
"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666." Revelation 13:16-18
I use this alot lately. Get the RFID for ID or you can't shop or buy... etc... It's coming closer.
First of all, this is giving EMP weapons more leverage if you rely too heavily on it. The ephemeral nature of security is also a problem.
I'm also reminded of some plans by some to use RFID tags to decide who is allowed to trade on the market and who is not. I'm wondering whether the efficiency gains are worth the effort. For so little privacy, I at least demand the availability of a far denser power source than diesel to me, i.e. where is my nuclear powered flying car.
Je me souviens.
How stupid is this woman? Really!?!
allow soldiers to identify combatants from non-combatants.
Hey, check out that guy with the bomb strapped to his vest.
ID scanner says he's civilian, let him through.
Ban warfare before tagging humans.
If she truly believes in Chipping / Barcoding all of humanity be it for whatever purpose - You can call it what you will - Is an autrocity to humanity, but will go down very well with control hungry politicians who would love to be able to run a "democratic" dictatorship like state.
And don't worry you will now hear the usual - "War on terror" "Think of the children" arguments. But the truth is that this will benefit no one in the long run - on the contrary - Vitness protection programs will be jeopardised, it will enable even more accurate cyber stalking, chipping barcoding everyone will open up a whole slew of potential misuses that by far outweigh any rational human beings motivation to embark on such a scheme.
And the arguments:
In war soldiers could easily differentiate legitimate targets in a population from non combatants.
Right....
Uhm... Excuse me Mr. you are pointing with an AK-47, could I just scan your barcode so I know if I can shoot you or not....
There are bad ideas - and then there are mind boggling ideas of nuclear annihilation like stupidity - This is one of them....
As Mathew7 mentions, while DNA should be 'digital' with 2 bits per pair, in practice the way we sample it isn't, not really. Especially when you consider doing hereditary searches where you're looking for a 'half match'.
I should have mentioned the non-exact match thing; Searching a DB for something like 'All phone calls from XXX-XXX-XXXX for the past 20 years' is far easier than searching for Person X's DNA 'fingerprint' in the DB. Fingerprint databases are even worse; they spit out 'similar' matches, often leaving the human experts hundreds of semi-matching prints to search through for final ID, and that's only looking through criminal records, not something like 'every adult in the USA'.
I don't read AC A human right
Maybe the chip could also control behavior?
Then there might not be any wars at all.
But im sure that feature will come as a silent over-the-air update for the firmware pretty soon after the chips have been installed.
Fingerprints, iris patterns, and retinal patterns are essentially bar codes already.
in her current fantasy series, the Bad Guys can use dark magic to inhabit the bodies of Good Guys (or, well, anyone). so maybe we _really_ need to barcode the soul!
someone should kidnap her and replace her chip with that of a criminal, or if it has medical records stored.. that of a drugg addict going from re-hab to rehab center.
. . . to kill, detain, or avoid my soldiers/special ops, by putting a chip in them so you can track them at all times, and launch remotely guided ordinance programmed to seek their GUIDs. Brilliant plan.
It's like she's never even heard of a covert operation.
It can't be remotely read (at least not yet), which is a good thing for many reasons, but everyone already has a (almost unique) code (I say almost, because there is the case of twins/triplets/etc which share DNA). It's just that you have to take a physical sample to "read" their code.
I'm sure hitler would have been proud of her, a popular way to tattoo numbers on people. Of course, you'd have to have an barcode reader of some sort to read the actual numbers, but not for long until they decide to put the numerals below as to follow standards.
P.S. Did I just godwin this?
If it can stop even a single case like that Garrido monster, I am all for it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping_of_Jaycee_Lee_Dugard
Bram Stolk http://stolk.org/tlctc/
It should be noted that this "opinion" was in the "60 second idea to improve the world" segment they do.
More often than not, things are just thrown out in this segment as a debate point rather than because the speaker actually believes it.
Fine, so the barcode thingy didn't work out (for Jews in WWII Germany). The chip thingy would likely be just as useful.
But how about a valve that can be turned on and off, preventing people from reproducing spontaneously? If there's one thing stupid people do well it is ... well, you can watch Idiocracy. At minimum, people would have to graduate from high school in order to qualify for having the ability to turn their own spigot turned on and off. That takes care of teen pregnancy.
Parents would also have some say in the matter, as would special "Darwin" courts - we don't want any Kentuky Fried Mom's burning their five year olds. For the most part, however, people would just choose to leave the spigot off until at least their thirties (fourties or fifties - it all depends on when their college loans are paid off).
All we need is a volunteer to get us started - hmm... How about Elizabeth Moon? I'm sure that most people would agree that she should not be procreating;)
When was the last time I read something from you?
Nothing to see here -- move along now...
If we implement the tags, we could have computer simulations run to determine damage done instead of using real ammo that causes needless collateral damage and destruction of property. The the losers could report to death stations to be disposed off....
It would help make our society so much more tidy and efficient...
*cough*....
At least till someone came along and violated their prime directive...
hmmm
This kind of bullshit is severe attack to fundamental freedom, "to be permitted to do anything to yourself, but not be permitted to do anything to other beings, even if they give consent".
One should have a posibillity to refuse anything, even citizenship as soon as he/she get conscious enough!
And for a sci/fi writer this statment is in total contradiction with knowledge that technology we have now, can be used to indentify one even without chip.
Dumb or forced to make this kind of statement.
Why is that so many people jump in, guns blazing, when they see an inflammatory one-liner, without bothering to get any context, background information or - dare I say it - facts? A lot of people have posted things on this thread to/about Elizabeth Moon that are offensive, insulting and hurtful to her and her family. Why? Because the person who started this thread came up with a provocative one-liner, provided a couple of links that don't give casual surfers any context, and sat back with popcorn to enjoy the show. Now I'll grant you, the BBC did much the same with that mini-article hyping the radio broadcast. Their intent was to "hook" people into going and listening to the full-length podcast. Unfortunately, they seem to have assumed that most of their listeners would already be familiar enough with the radio show to know that the "60 second idea" portion (which is what has everyone's shorts in a bundle) isn't necessarily intended to be serious. Clearly, that was an invalid assumption. For anyone actually interested in learning the truth, M. Moon has posted an account of the whole experience - including the unexpected reactions, and the minor detail that she doesn't actually believe that everyone should be chipped - on her blog. It can be seen here: http://e-moon60.livejournal.com/442811.html As you can see, this outburst of unpleasantness against Ms. Moon is completely unjustified and ill-informed. It's the job of a SF writer to put ideas out there which are thought provoking, which make us stop and question our existence and the world around us. The good ones really stir things up and leave a lasting impression. They should NOT be subjected to an outpouring of abuse for doing a good job. C'mon people, exercise a few brain cells, here. And maybe take the time to apologize to the woman you abused so unfairly.
Umm, actually no, you don't have a clue. See my post below: http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2868075&cid=40102857
"Social Security card with the "not for identification" message"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_security_number
Why is that so many people jump in, guns blazing, when they see an inflammatory one-liner, without bothering to get any context, background information or - dare I say it - facts?
A lot of people have posted things on this thread to/about Elizabeth Moon that are offensive, insulting and hurtful to her and her family. Why? Because the person who started this thread came up with a provocative one-liner, provided a couple of links that don't give casual surfers any context, and sat back with popcorn to enjoy the show.
Now I'll grant you, the BBC did much the same with that mini-article hyping the radio broadcast. Their intent was to "hook" people into going and listening to the full-length podcast. Unfortunately, they seem to have assumed that most of their listeners would already be familiar enough with the radio show to know that the "60 second idea" portion (which is what has everyone's shorts in a bundle) isn't necessarily intended to be serious. Clearly, that was an invalid assumption.
For anyone actually interested in learning the truth, M. Moon has posted an account of the whole experience - including the unexpected reactions, and the minor detail that she doesn't actually believe that everyone should be chipped - on her blog. It can be seen here: http://e-moon60.livejournal.com/442811.html As you can see, this outburst of unpleasantness against Ms. Moon is completely unjustified and ill-informed. It's the job of a SF writer to put ideas out there which are thought provoking, which make us stop and question our existence and the world around us. The good ones really stir things up and leave a lasting impression. They should NOT be subjected to an outpouring of abuse for doing a good job.
C'mon people, exercise a few brain cells, here. And maybe take the time to apologize to the woman you abused so unfairly.
Mod parent up, people really need to do more than just read the headline and comment. This is Slashdot not Huffington post, you people know better.
Not having read anything by Elizabeth Moon, I'm now of the opinion that she's too stupid to have written anything worth reading. (This assumption may or may not be correct, but I only have this one statement of hers to go by). There is a difference between a SF writer saying eventually we will be chipped and we should be chipped. If she really thinks we should be chipped, then she's as dumb as f*ck!
It was written about long ago. You might see it in your lifetime.