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Ask Slashdot: How Do I Stay Employable?
illcar writes "Hi, I am a 40-year-old working as a senior developer for one of the biggest investment banks. I have always worked as a full time employee in my career; however the last 5-6 years have been very tough for me because of office politics, outsourcing, and economic conditions. The financial industry is not doing well, and we may be at the brink of another round of layoffs. My family is growing, my spouse does not work, and I still don't own a house. I am worried regarding my job security & career growth. Considering Medicare does not kick in till 65, I am still looking at 25 long years of career. I am wondering what the best way would be for me to stay employable in the coming years?"
illcar continues: "1. Should I stay technical, and be ready to work as consultant/contractor? How does medical insurance work in that case?
2. Should I capitalize on the domain knowledge, and move onto business/managerial side?
3. Will the MBA degree or alternate career help?
4. Any other suggestions?
Thanks."
2. Should I capitalize on the domain knowledge, and move onto business/managerial side?
3. Will the MBA degree or alternate career help?
4. Any other suggestions?
Thanks."
Why is your family growing if you are looking at possible layoff?
As a 45 year old working in the industry, my first thought is find yourself a nice quiet place to cry.
But honestly if you can do it move to management. If you've got a proven track record in the field, you've got a good chance at being one of those magic managers who actually can manage programmers (it's like herding cats). They won't respect you of course, but at least you'll be able to communicate with them which is huge.
And the IT managers I know make decent money.
Personally, I'm too much of a BOFH to go that route.
Never trust an atom. They make up everything.
medicare kicks in from cradle to grave in canada, and with many other developed countries....
may your country develop your health care system to the level of those above..
At this stage in your career you should be focusing on the bigger picture (in terms of projects) stuff. I know the word is tainted around here, but ... project management.
Grunt development work should be done by newer developers (who will work for less), you need to be more focused on managing a team, consulting, etc.
Don't sell yourself short. You've likely seen many projects succeed and fail, and should have learned lessons on how they could be better managed. Leave the grunt work to those developers who don't have that experience, and try to get into the position of managing them.
Knowing what can be done and how will make you a better manager - you don't need to be the one doing it.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
...if you've already got one. If you really think you're a candidate to be laid off, get going while the going's good. Shoot for a more senior or mgmt position at a smaller firm, get some experience in that role, and then rise with the tide when / if it comes back in.
If you haven't looked for a job for the last several years, make sure you know how to make your resume look good. I've seen people with excellent skill who couldn't find a job, because they didn't know how to write a resume. I've also seen people who horrible, that had no problem finding a job, because they could make their resume look good. Finding a job is a skill like any other.
After that, you should decide what you want. If you want to become a contractor, focus on skills (and resume writing skills) that will help you get that. If you want to go into management, go for that. If you want to remain a programmer, then aim for that.
Realistically, there is enough demand in the market for any of those positions if you can do it reasonably well. If you aren't willing to relocate, that could possibly limit your options, though.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Improve your English skills
It's a changing world, few people can expect a long career with the same company. prepare you yourself for the worst situation, live in a house that you can afford, not the house that you want. Give your kids a good education, not the best education. Be prepared to shift into a more stable job at the expense of salary. I'm 55, if I lose my job tomorrow then I'm out cutting lawns or doing part-time teaching(?). And if things don't go bad, then you are in a good position for retirement. Start planning for 65 now, not in 10 years time.
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-> 2. Should I capitalize on the domain knowledge, and move onto business/managerial side? -
This. I'm in the same boat as you without some of the office politics. However my manager is changing positions (and probably companies) soon. I managed to convince him to put the other person, far less senior, under me on the org chart. Very little actual management should be needed but it gives a bump to the resume' and a little bit of protection should the new boss want to do some house-cleaning.
If you have someone where you are now who will do that with you, go for it. If not, then start quietly looking around for a place looking for a senior developer who can manage a team. At this point in your career (like mine) it is probably more important to move up than to stay loyal. It gets progressively harder to show management -initiative- (which is what most people want in a development manager) as you get past 40. It seems like under-40 being a direct contributor is fine ... but post-40 the longer you take to make a move to management the less they feel you are able.
Also ... brush up on your PROJECT management skills if you aren't currently doing alot of it. Get Agile (scrum or similar). See if you can do scrum-master-like duties. Most development organizations will recognize that even if you don't have direct reports ... as a project leader you ARE managing not only people but also development.
Management isn't some wonderful panacea ... I don't particularly like it myself ... but especially with the huge influx of employable-but-new faces graduating that are very hungry for a job ... it is very hard to stay competitive. Like you said ... you have 25 years to go. If you don't want to manage people in the HR sense, you have options. If you don't want to be coding as much as time goes on, you have the larger group HR-ish options (but not so much until you've done a report or two for a bit).
It is more productive to voice thoughtful opinions (reply) than to judge (moderate) others.
I have to ask myself what happened to the pioneering entrepreneurial spirit that made America into the most prosperous country in the world. You've already done the employment thing. You need to ask yourself what you really want to do with your life, rather than what you can do to "keep employable". You're not getting any younger. Surely you have some unfullfilled childhood dream. There's more to life than the rat race.
If you really do want to stay in the industry, I have found it a lot easier to get my foot inside their door as a business owner with a solid value proposition than as yet another resume in the stack.
Get into some entrepreneurial education program, learn how to do a business plan and where to find investors, or put something up on kickstarter, or just be a middleman for random freelancers on the internet. That's something you can do from any laptop at any gorgeous beach in any country. I did that for a few years and it was great. But ultimately I realized that herding cats and hunting down contracts was not my type of thing. I'd really just rather sit in a corner and be left alone.
You are a Senior Developer for a Bank. By all accounts, you should have job security. Why? Because banks are notorious for having antiquated technology, particularly in-house code. As a Senior Developer, you are in a position to make yourself irreplaceable. Dig your self into the old code that no one wants to touch. Dig in like a tick. If a) you are the only one who knows the language and b) the only one who can understand the logic, then they will keep you. Don't push it, because if they know you are extorting them they will cut off their arm to spite you. Lay low and know where the skeletons are buried. You should have no problem cruising through til retirement.
you won't own a house, forget about it. your spouse needs to get a job. education at your age is a scam, it won't help you as employers only care about your experience in what they are immediately using. be thankful you haven't been out of work for over a year like many.
It's tough. I'm 39 and I've had to reinvent my skills completely 3 times in the last 6 years as technology has been phased out. I don't agree with the post doing grunt work comment. It's easy to cut a project manager, unless you are a truly skilled people person with the skills to market and bring in clients. What has allowed me to stay employable is finding what the market needs and learning it. I rode the housing bubble in the naughties, and now I work in the marcellus shale industry. Try looking for a job in the energy industry. Calgary is booming. GIS is hot. The entire GIS software ecosystem is switching from Vbasic to python. The ability to move where the work is is key. Consider the fact that not owning a house gives you the flexibility of going where the work is. Not everywhere is in recesssion. Calgary. Namibia. Perth Australia are all worth looking at. Alaska as well.
then apply for an H1B visa to work in the US. I've heard employers prefer to keep indentured servants around rather than their 'valued employees'.
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
You really have two options here, you can be proactive or you can be reactive...
If you decide to wait until something necessitates a move, then frankly you will lose. 45 is hardly over the hill, though in the tech sector there is an assumption that it is certainly pushing it.
So you should instead choose to be proactive... Pick a strategy and start to implement it. Perhaps this means you start with some formal education, though that would not be the route that I would go (your first degree should have generated substaintial returns before you think about spending significantly more money on another one). You need to decide if you _can_ manage people. It is a skill that needs to be learned. On the flip side you need to understand if you are of a mindset that you _can_ consult professionally. You obviously need to be technical, a very clear communicator, and even a little bit of a salesman. If you are not the last two then you are not talking about consulting you are talking about temp-ing, and that is not a game you want to be in long term.
As for medical insurance... In the US, someone has to buy medical insurance. Alot of times this is managed by your employer. So if you end up consulting as in self employed then you will bear 100% of the cost of this insurance. If you end up consulting at a reputable consulting firm, then realistically you will end up with either a kind of middle of the road plan or if it is a high-end consulting firm you will be very well taken care of in this perspective. If you are temping then you are either going to be on your own as if you were self employed or the company will _manage_ the plan but pass most if not all of the costs through to you. So research this before you end up in one of these situations. You will need to know the rate that you need.
And finally I know so many people who start to feel that tingle in their knee before a layoff happens that end up doing exactly the wrong thing (buying a house, a new car, whatever) don't do that. If things are not stable the use some duct tape and keep your life and stuff together until you are in a situation where you can afford the expense (either in cash or principal + interest).
You mentioned your whole industry and your company is not doing well. We have no idea how big that deck of cards with trading complex debt instruments are in Europe and you probably do not want to stick around and find out when countries start to default and pink slips go out.
So look elsewhere in a better industry? Construction is going up a little and internet .com, analytical marketing/big data, and cloud providers are the new growth markets right now. Apply to these companies? It is always better to have a job when you look for a job. Also it is best always to be a profit center, not a cost center. Banks see non traders as cost centers and do not value your time so you will be paid less and be let go first when there is a recession compared to the other industries I described above. In a .com you are a profit center and more alianged to the processes of your employer. This means you will be paid more and have more job security statistically. Go see the world and move somewhere else?
Another option is changing careers or getting a different education if you are worried that 40 is too old to code. Go get that MBA to move into management or a degree where you can combine your IT background in another profesison like marketing (big data analytics), or teaching.
I am only 35 but hit snags in my employment and it is near impossible to get back in. HR sees the gap and runs screaming. WHat I am doing is going for a teaching credential and changing my career path. It might not pay well for 5 years but if you are worred about a layoff you can get that as a backup and your pension will be paid for in 25 years and you can get $60k a year for life. I also get to choose where I move when I graduate too. You can teach math, computer science, and even business courses in middle school and highschool. It may not pay as much but you can do IT support and teaching for additional income for districts. For example a had a recruiter call me for a teaching/computer support job in rural Alaska for 70k a year!
I am going to aim for Alaska because I liked to live there in the past and can enjoy the summers and do outdoor activities. But that is just me. If you do decide to keep programming another company might give you more avenues of going into other things such as IT sales.
http://saveie6.com/
Create a program that shifts fractions of cents from your company and puts them in an account you have access to; Then, if anyone gets suspicious, burn down the building to cover your tracks.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
Those contracting companies usually provide benefits (health care, 401K etc) for a price and do you a 1040 at the end of the year, just like you're used to now. If the company you're working for likes you, they'll usually do a full time convert or just keep extending your contract perpetually. If you know which way the wind is blowing, it's not so stressful. Sometimes I just shotgun my resume out there again anyway if they drag their feet on a renewal, just to see what's hot in an area.
It helps to keep a network of recruiters, too. I always try to help 'em out when they come looking, even if I'm not in the market. Currently most of my network of past co-workers is employed, though, so I haven't been very much help lately.
If the company you're currently working for is very sketchy, I'd farm out the resumes now and ride that job 'til you find a new one. If you get laid off before that, go for the unemployment. Whatever you do, don't let on to what you're up to until you're leaving and don't quit! One way or another you've got to ride that thing into the ground unless you find something else first.
You can go it on your own as a self-employed contractor, too, but that's really more work than I care to put into working. Sure you make HUGE briefcases full of cash that way, but you're doing all the admin and tax crap the 1040 contracting companies do for you. Some people love that. You might hear from a few of them in this story. I work to live and would rather do other things with my free time.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
It's likely that you'll get canned there, sooner or later.
I'm in a similar situation, but temporarily sidelined caring for my folks (dementia). I recently had a boss who's been managing tech since '63. He started at 5am and finished around 7PM, every day.
Scenario out all the options. A non tech path. A tech/detail path, a management path. A path in a segment that doesn't exist yet. A path that's a total fresh start.
We tend to believe we're in control of more than we are. Whatever you do, it may not matter.
You're going to work past the current of Social Security, because it'll be a higher age by the time we get there.
Your work life will likely end about age 70-72.
Social demographers expect that you will have 2 or possibly 3 careers between now and then.
(and post in forums with a younger median age)
It's you're, IDIOT!
What if there's nothing you can do to stay employable? Then what? It's ugly out there. They will lay you off just for looking over 40 no matter how well you perform.
I'd shape up my finances as much as possible. Cut expenses to the bone. Trade in the gas guzzlers for gas sippers, set the thermostat higher in the summer and lower in the winter, use a clothesline (actually, an indoor rack works fairly well). Never go to the movies and cancel the cable TV subscription, etc. Use the Internet for that stuff. Pay off the credit cards. You know, all the stuff they advise people to do to improve their finances. As for buying a house, forget it, unless it's some foreclosure deal you can pick up super cheap. (I hear Detroit has houses for under $10k.) Keep renting, and live with the contempt and second class treatment that's routinely dished out to renters. All a house will do is tie you down, make it harder to move to a job.
With finances not hindering you, you have another option: consulting. Consultants must be set up to weather slow times.
Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
1. Contracting: Assuming you are in the states, be prepared to give 30-40% of your earnings back to the government. As a self-employed person, you get taxed twice, once as business income, and then again as personal income. This is why contractors typically charge $80-120/hr. They only take home $50-72. Also, don't expect our "business friendly" government to help you out in the insurance department either. If you can qualify, you may be looking at $1000+/mo to insure your family.
On top of all that nonsense, you still have to find work, and it's unlikely to be steady. You may have a huge flood of work, and have the opportunity to work 60-70/hr weeks and make a huge payday, or just as likely, you may have to float yourself for 3 months on what you've saved up. Your best bet here is to get into a software niche and build up a loyal staff. This will not only provide steadier income, but also allow you to hand pick people that you enjoy working with.
2. If you get along with people and have leadership skill, then yes. You should know by now whether people tend to take their lead from you or not.
3. An MBA is a great way to network with other people who are aiming towards executive-level positions. This will pay off in 3-5 years as some of those people land those positions and you can ride their coat-tails, or they can ride yours if you are the lucky one.
4. I'll let others take a crack at that.
The only thing I've really gathered from this thread is that no one knows dick about what's going on and no one knows their ass from their head about what to do about it. It's simply amazing that there is no real guidance here and all views are diametrically opposing.
This tells me a few things:
1) No way's better than another, no method of thinking is better than someone elses; do your best.
2) Everyone is still fighting for the same slice of pie and it's only getting more random as to how that's done; competition is a bitch.
I know exactly how you feel. Im a 40 year old programmer and I really enjoy it. I dont want to be a manager (I dont have the A-Hole gene). However I do often look around & see that most people around me are 25 to 35.How will things be when we are 55?
My skills are very broad, but today most young guns hyper-specialize in a specific skill that takes 1-2 years to pick up (eg WPF, WCF). When you parachute into a task as a jack of all trades, the 20 years of composite knowledge feels largely irrelevant for the specific task at hand.
Im trying to focus on non cookie-cutter skills - algorithms, 3D etc, but the software industry seems geared towards vanilla CRUD information systems - wash, rinse, repeat.
I've spent the last 20 years learning APIs in my spare time to broaden my knowledge - this is not such a healthy life balance. I've decided to do some exercise to feel better, and not look like, well a 40 year old programmer.
Otherwise, thats just life - do your best, what else can yo do?
I am not in your specific field, but close. I am 36. My advice:
Stay hungry. Keep reading programming blogs. Work on hobby projects on weekends to keep your skills sharp. Write stupid games in languages you never use at work. Obsess over every little mistake in your code. Post ridiculous nuances of horrible PHP (fill in your language here) behavior.
When necessary, stay up till 4 AM writing code. Build a team of hungry programmers. Build a team of guys who code all day, and go home and code a little more when they're not playing Diablo or whatnot.
I hate to be an anus-hole, but your post sounds like the words of a tired burnt-out programmer. I wouldn't hire you. Medicare? Job Security and Office Politics? I didn't see anything in your post to indicate that you're still passionate about software development...And passion, IMHO, is the crux of staying employable in this field.
And marry someone who has a steady job. You'll still be able to do the stuff you love, but the income will be spotty. Though you may get lucky and make enough to live off of.
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
Look this healthcare bill just handed you a golden egg on the platter. Take advantage of it by opening your own outsourcing shop. Project manage the jobs and ensure the clients get a top quality product by vetting all code that goes through the door.
Either become the person outsourcing or be outsourced take your pick.
Two of my huge contracting clients just imposed a hiring freeze this week on all US Employee new hires, offshore and contractors are fine.
Got Code?
It can't be outsourced, and have you ever heard of an unemployed plumber?
It's meaningful work, too, work which has saved more lives over the centuries than doctors have.
(Even I can't tell if I'm serious about this).
...but let's face it, some of us have no interest in management, or consulting. That's why, after a 15-year career in software development, I turned to teaching. And if you're laughing because I'm advocating teaching as an alternative career, you miss my point: Sometimes getting out of the field is a viable option. I grew tired of lining the pockets of CEOs and PHBs and gutless business owners who simply ran their businesses into the ground, businesses built partially on my hard work. Sometimes you have to take a step back and ask yourself "What exactly have I done for society these past years?" Chances are, if you're a software developer at a "large investment bank," not a hell of a lot.
IT tends to throw out the old and import the young because the old hands don't keep up with the new technology. But if you have special skills that are vital to your industry they'll keep you around until you choose to retire or die of old age.
You will have to keep up on technologies as they come. Your company will tell you what skills they're looking for... Definitely keep training.
The suggestion to move to management also isn't bad.
Work on increasing your value and look at job openings that are close to your skill set. Ideally you don't want to care if you're fired because you're so valuable that you'll just get another job.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
ban op, gas thread
There's two types of companies out there: those that see the software you create as an asset and a source of revenue (directly or indirectly) to be managed, and those who see the software you create as an overhead cost to be minimized. These companies will treat you accordingly: in short, your salary is either part of a profit center, or part of a cost center. If you can help it, _NEVER_ work building software that is viewed as an expense. In all but the most spectacular, idealistic, privately held utopias of small companies you will be treated like vermin if what you build is an expense. When the software you build generates revenue and you work in concert with business, then you're respected and valued as a developer. You are not viewed as a "code producing resource" to be maximized and controlled.
A fun spin on this is to sell your experience as a consultant. BDC's (Big Dumb Companies) are full of projects in need of rescue or "quick turnaround" that the BDC will pay out a tasty premium for 6-9 months at over 2X what they pay their own coding slobs who are too dis-organized and balkanized by middle-management fiefdoms to get the chance of doing a project in the first place. When you do this, you're working in a profit center (for you consulting agency or perhaps yourself) _AND_ you get the advantage of exposure to a variety of tools and problem domains.
Oh. And for the record, don't buy a fucking house. Second worst decision I ever made, IMHO. The idea that it's the smart long term financial solution for everyone is total bullshit: http://genxfinance.com/your-home-is-not-an-investment-dont-treat-it-like-one/
You wont have to burn the place down if you dont mess up any mundane details.
Monstar L
"Office Space" jokes aside, that's what grid hedging scalper robots do on the foreign exchange market... minus the burnt-down building.
I worked in IT at one of the larger investment banks for a bit.
At somewhere like Apple or Google, IT is everything. Or a lot. At an investment bank it is nothing - the investment bankers and sales people are the entire focus. You can argue about how important IT is there, but these are institutions with tons of money to burn, and if they make a mistake, the US taxpayer will always bail them out. That's the thing, they have a ton of money. I have seen insane things go on in terms of technical time bombs waiting to go off. But they have so much money, they can throw money at any problem and it will be fixed. IT is treated like garbage I would say. I think it's insane people would work there in IT over a long period of time. Where I worked, almost everyone who did not leave of their own accord was pushed out - they can people all the time, especially when the market dips. Then again, it is such a big industry, sometimes people find a good spot which seems like a sinecure, and it is not so bad. But some people who think they found a sinecure one day find out they were wrong. It can be a good experience to work at a place like this for a year or two, and it looks good on a resume, anyone who stays for a long time I think is crazy, and their personality always seems to me to change, they seem unhappy. Look how nervous you seem in your post, it does not seem the post of a content, happy person. You're at a company at the apex of world financial power, yet they make you feel insecure. You're one of the workers doing all the work that creates that wealth for them, but they seek to make you feel like a disposable peon. You are a disposable peon.
Anyhow, your age works against you. People are smart enough to not say any age discrimination stuff, but I've been forced to pass over extremely qualified candidates more or less because (unsaid) they were old, had a family they would have to spend time with, might stick up for themselves etc.
If you want to stay in finance, connections are everything. When the cuts come, and they always do, the managers will get together and decide who stays and who goes. Are any of the decision makers going to fight for you? Aside from this, keeping in touch with people when they move to other companies is important, especially when you're looking for work. The stupidest thing you can do is stick your head down and do a good job for sixty hours a week. No one gives a shit - at all. If you think the vultures running your company care, if you think your manager's manager cares, you are a complete fool. Politicking is everything in places like that. As far as consulting, usually these places want to deal with consulting companies, so you have to get to know the project managers and such at consulting companies. This is not hard to do - the project managers want to have a good relationship with hired staff at the company, they want their consultants supported and to get more business, they know you can always be the one who is bumped to team lead or manager.
Also, if you're not chasing the brass ring where you are there is NO reason for you to be there. Your goal should be to be either a managing director in IT (which there are very few of, because the bank considers IT a backroom joke) or in the elite architecture/engineering team. Why would someone kill themselves at these places otherwise, other than to get the experience and resume blurb for a year or two?
As far as getting a job, it is like this: there is a bell curve. Most people are in the middle. You are probably in the middle. Most interviews are looking for people on the right end of the curve. When you go on a technical interview, do you miss questions? I've interviewed dozens, maybe hundreds of people. People on the right side of the bell curve can answer mostly everything I throw at them - 99 out of 100 questions. A few people are on the left side and know very little. Most people are in the middle, you can tell they kind of know it, and could probably do the job, but you're n
The financial industry is not doing well...
Some parts of it aren't... but some parts are doing great. What's bad for the industry, is often great for the folks involved in making it crappy... I'm talking of course about increased regulation, risk management, and other get-in-the-way-of-business activities that are floureshing right now. If you have a financial background, try looking at jobs for SEC, compliance departments, risk management departments, auditing, etc., there's one in every major corporation---and they're often `safe' places in times of great industry calamity.
And yeah, keeping up with what's out there, and being flexible and indespensible (and moving to management, etc.,) are also great ideas.
Consulting (as many are suggesting) is great if you can make it work---but consultants are very often the first folks out of the door when cutting costs, and whenever there's a major screw up, there's great push to "blame the consultants" and get rid of them... lets full time managers save face. That's why they hired consultats to begin with... to be the fall guys.
I'm a big believer in the idea that social interactions are more important than job skills when it comes to getting or retaining a job. Just think : how many people have you worked with that seem to have no job skills whatsoever, but they often thrive in an office, undeservedly becoming manager when they don't know how to spell IBM?
Those people are either lucky, or more likely, they know how to manage the social game. With that in mind, here's my advice:
1) Learn to play office politics.
I'm not talking about some sort of 80's and 90's era sabotage-the-other-guy or beat-them-with-a-better-pitch schtick. Just realize that the ability to socialize in a business setting is a valuable job skill. Make sure you know what's going on in the office, and at worst, offer to pitch in where you can, or act to perform introductions between those that need and those who can provide.
This ability is especially rare among stereotype IT/developer types, so when it's recognized, it's usually well rewarded. If you're having problems in this area, I recommend joining a toastmasters group if simple social interaction is your issue, or asking a manager to mentor you ... which leads to my next item.
2) Keep climbing up.
The standard business operates not based on income, but the rate at which their income is fluctuating. If it's not going forward, then there's something that needs to be 'fixed' - at least from a stock, investor, board standpoint. This feeling trickles down though. If you're happy doing the same job for years, then either there's something wrong with you, or the job - according to some managerial viewpoints. That's why they ask you stupid questions like, "Where do you see yourself in 5 years," in your interview/review. They're just checking that you're normal, according to their standards.
The easiest path up is management. Ask to be mentored, indicate that you want to move into management. Leverage your technical seniority. You can go the project management route since there's an easy certification for that, if you're into certifications (some companies are, some aren't).
Alternatively, court the architect position. If it doesn't exist at your company, request that it be created for you. You don't need more money (though you shouldn't ~say~ that), in fact, you might not even need new responsibilities. Just do it for the title. It's important. Maybe not to you, but when they make decisions at the top level, they know they can afford to get rid of developers - even a senior developer or two - but an 'architect' sounds invaluable.
3) Take ownership .. ugh... powerpoint, drawing gant charts, whatever it is that will sell that idea to the business with YOU as the lead.
You've spent significant time at your company, and you have a good idea of the technical domain. You must have a million ideas about what can be done, and what can be done better. Find something you can care about and make it happen. That means drawing up a business plan, inserting yourself in manager's schedules, getting approval, learning
It helps then, to be able to pull it off, but honestly it doesn't seem to be all that important.
4) Self-promote.
Ugh. I hate this one, but it's necessary. The only people who may really know your value is your co-workers, and if you're on a small or isolated product, maybe not even them. Your manager ~may~ have a good idea of what you're worth, but let's guess that it's 50%. His manager only has about a 10% grasp, and the department manager with 300 people only knows you by job title and the section his direct report manages.
If your manager isn't whooping up your name and your co-work
I've interviewed tons of mediocre middle-aged developers, and I don't really have any advice for them other than go to short-term contracting. But if you are capable, be a *great* programmer. Know every aspect of your particular area - .Net, Java, whatever - and dont' expect to get paid more than everyone else. AND STAY ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT TECHNOLOGY! If that isn't your cup of tea or out of your grasp, try moving into management. It starts with being a lead developer, but instead of going into architecture, try to get the foot in the door of middle management. Bad part of this is that if layoffs happen at this point, you're likely to get the heave-ho; but if you make it to software manager or something above project management, you should have some decent longevity.
Actually, you should have sucked it up a long time ago. When I left the military, I got a job for 32K/year and my wife had no job and we had two kids. She had to get a night shift position at a convenience store for a while and eventually switched to a night shift job at a chip fab so we could make ends meet. We live a few hundred miles from the nearest relatives and paying for child care was not in the budget. We kept the debt low and cut back on spending. Eventually as our pays went and the kids got older, things got better and we bought a house.
13 years later, my kids are grown, I have 3 years left to pay off my house, we have ZERO debt (other than the house) and I still drive a 15 year old used car every day, she has a 7 year old used car, my kids could move out at any time, and we live in the same house even though we make over 100K+ more than we did back then. Save money early when you are making decent money, don't take on debt (cars, credit cards, car loans) and you will have many more options as you get older. We could both quit or get fired from our professional jobs and get jobs at Wal-Mart and we could easily make ends meet. If I moved into a house 3-5x the cost of mine with much higher recurring costs and always bought new cars, we would be in a situation similar to yours. We do spend and waste a lot of money now and we each have a lot of "toys" but these are not recurring costs and those expenses could be reduced to almost nothing tomorrow if we had to. An example is I maintain 2 cars I mainly race at the track but I could stop that hobby and the money they require immediately if I had to.
Pure opinion here - if it was me in your shoes I'd have the wife getting into the job market (heck, what is she going to do at 40 if you get hit by a bus anyway?). At 40 if I was uneasy about my current job I'd start looking at sprucing up my resume and putting my name out there just to see how the market is biting. I'd like to think we're all fairly flexible in case of layoffs - I seem to always run into various people looking for all spectrums of folks in the IT world. The biggest thing is being willing to relocate. Beyond that all I can say is I hope you've made the most of your career thus far because that's what's going to keep you afloat.
I like your premise. It would make a good movie.
Maybe it can involve a stapler to some extent. :)
I have two pieces of advice for you. One is for the short/medium term (keeping your job) and the other is long-term (making progress). I make assumptions with both of them, so take whatever applies to you and leave the rest.
For the short term, try to branch out as much as possible. Get involved with many projects -- within reason, of course -- and make yourself an asset in each one. Avoid coming across as arrogant, but don't be afraid to strut your stuff. Be sure that your employer (and coworkers, for that matter) are aware of and appreciate your years of experience and the wisdom you derive from them, and don't hesitate to go the extra mile when you can.
For the long term, you need to work on moving into management. You should already be there, really. If you are going to stick with your current employer, the MBA probably isn't necessary; just really work at climbing the ladder within the company. This means getting noticed by the higher-ups as being management material AND showing the initiative to work toward that end. Start trying to get yourself involved with the higher-level aspects of your work, rather than focusing on tasks and code-monkey work. If you're a coder, try to get more involved with design, and then work your way into overseeing a project. If you keep at it but get overlooked, don't be afraid to go to your boss and let him/her know that you're ready to tackle the bigger-picture stuff.
So to summarize: diversify, apply effort, and be more assertive.
I assume the reason that you haven't purchased a house is because you can't afford it where you currently live. If that's the case, you really need to move somewhere that has affordable housing. There's lots of places with affordable housing that have developer jobs. I recently moved from New Jersey, which is mostly horribly expensive, to Cary, North Carolina, which is a small town between Raleigh and Durham. I bought my first home at age 41 for $215K. It's an older home, but it's 2000 sqft, on 1/2 acre, with an in-ground pool. My property taxes are $1600 a year. A similar home in NJ would easily cost over twice as much and the taxes would likely be 8K or more per year if I was lucky. Here in the Raleigh/Durham/Cary "Research Triangle" area, you could probably find a job with Deutsche Bank or Credit Suisse if you really want to stay on the Financial/Banking career path.
Fucking hell, learn Mongo, Cassandra, etc and keep your dumb-ass employed in NoSQL land.
If you rely on others to tell you wtf you need to learn, you're too lazy to be employed.
Yes its hard work, and it has many ups and downs, however
- You choose your hours
- You choose who you work with
- You choose who you work for
- Don't need to apply for holidays
- Can be drunk at work
- When you abuse your boss, you enjoy it
Over the years I've done night/weekend jobs like washing dishes and pizza delivery to support myself, also made myself available for any small jobs from friends to keep me physically fit like gardening, rearranging furniture around houses, setting up complete offices instead of just the computers/network. Doing the shit jobs is priceless in the long term, if a friend wants their laptop fixed they know its going to cost them a bottle of whiskey and a home cooked meal before I even look at it :)
Its taken 15 years, but now I'm being paid to study Tourism (this is a big thing for me, I didn't even finish year 10), gave my mother a profitable and sustainable hosting company for her retirement and successfully found investors who want me to do project management for them.
Grow a pear and take the risks, you will never regret it.
I'm not signing anything
(1) Stay physically fit and active, and keep up your appearance. Nobody wants to hire a middle-aged slouch with a pot-belly, tattoos, and greasy hair. Your spouse will appreciate this too.
(2) Learn another human language. Spanish, Mandarin, Arabic, etc.
(3) Participate actively and meaningfully in the open source projects of your choice, using your real name (not a goofy pseudonym) so that you will have examples of your work to show to potential employers.
(4) Participate in local charity and volunteer organizations. This will help improve your people skills.
(5) Turn off the TV and read books instead. Non-fiction is best, but even fiction is better than nothing. Keep improving your mind.
I'm of retirement age; I'll tell you what worked for me. (Electronics Engineer)
Cultivate a very positive and optimistic attitude, regardless of the outlook.
Seek and accept the most challenging assignments. If the company will pay for any graduate degree, do it.
Maintain and expand your network with calls, letters, lunches, etc. Stay in touch with everybody.
About once a year, interview for a job whether you need to or not.
Represent your employer externally, if possible, at conferences, etc. Speak to groups. If not possible, join Toastmasters.
Best of luck!
ummm...I hope you're kidding.
You never can tell around here.
You need to look at your job as just one facet of your overall business - the business of you. So, you need to get out there and network / interact constantly. Benefit from your network (and return the favor) to advance your career - or start a business. Maintaining your job and starting a side business is ideal, but it is tough to come up with a good business idea (I find) but if you can, great. No matter what, you need to diversify your income into multiple streams. Ideally that's a job, a business, and investments. Careers and business are built on personal relationships. Always have, always will. Job-wise, yeah, gotta move from being the grunt to managing.
Don't worry about not owning a house - so what? More likely than not, it's more of a concern for the wife. In reality, though, you don't need to own to have a home. And you most certainly can rent a whole house (I have some available - interested? FML). Frankly, rough times are ahead and not owning is probably the best thing. And, having a mortgage is a major problem - think about it, you are committing yourself to paying something every month for years and years. FML.
And forget about medicare, medicaid, social security and the rest of it. It won't be there by the time you retire. Sorry, Charlie. Even if it all survives, it's hardly something to look forward to - enjoy the here and now, as you could be whisked away at any time. Speaking of which, since you have dependents (and only because you have dependents) you might consider life insurance.
"you know who *else* burned down buildings to cover their tracks??"
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
The bottom line is, anything can happen. Keep your sails short.
In general, always operate as if you are going to be fired tomorrow. Try to keep at least 3 months worth of cash in savings to keep the bills paid so you have time to figure out your next move. If you are living hand to mouth, you are in a bad way. Live simply and live well within your means.
Always keep your eyes open for new positions, even if your present job seems secure. Explore the possibilities. Make time for coffee or lunch with colleagues that you haven't seen in a while, just so you know the state of the world.
Keep flexible. You may wind up doing something different that requires you to dig and learn, while leveraging your experience. That is A-OK. Just don't get into a mental "old dog can't learn new tricks" rut.
If you suspect that your neck is soon to be on the chopping block, get your resume circulating now. If your current employer can't provide you with security, you don't owe them any allegiance. My resume is always posted on the career boards. My current boss knows this and respects this. This is not meant as offense to my boss, and it doesn't mean I am going out the door tomorrow, but they know that I am serious about keeping myself afloat and paying my bills. That is why I work in the first place.
The concept of a 20 year career with a company is dead. I have worked at several companies and the longest stretch has been 4 years. I've been laid off several times, and in a couple positions there simply wasn't any way to advance except to pick up and leave. That is how it is.
Good luck.
1. Be good at what you do.
2. Specialize in something that's in demand. Re-specialize as needed.
3. Don't be the guy with "personality issues".
4. Cultivate a network of former co-workers who know your worth.
5. Don't price yourself out of a job; a senior dev with twenty years experience is worth about as much as one with ten.
6. Choose to live somewhere jobs are scarce and cost-of-living is relatively low.
7. Try to always be working on something that will make you more employable. If your current job doesn't qualify then try to find one that does.
You could always create an online school, you know, record classes on Youtube, that your children will be able to use. Give something back to the world. Maybe even get Bill Gates to throw in a few million dollars... sorry, that was a little cold.
Things are messed up, and the hogs are running the show (but then you work in the belly of the beast and I don't need to explain how broken it all is do I.) The good news is you can still create something of your own. Look at a thing, any thing that you love, that touches, moves and inspires you. Something you want your great great grandchildren to point at with pride. You will never polish enough turds to be happy, secure or skate through life unexamined. So confront what it is that stirs your soul. Figure out a strategy to migrate from here to there and give it a rip. Yes, you have family to take care of, make them part of the process.
Or you could just look for the next big thing. I'm guessing that would be home robotics. You know anything about AI?
Welcome to the club...
Posting anonymously for my own privacy.
It's hard for all of us out there. Rounds of layoffs, and otherwise considering staff expendable is now deeply embedded in corporate culture.
Plenty of us have given years of service, to only get a short notice "see ya..." Our jobs have been replaced with someone at half the price and a quarter of the ability. Sometimes they're outsourced at a smaller fraction of the price, and commiserate quality. Or they just decide that [pick an IT department] isn't worth the expense.
Until our corporate environments change to start having some sort of dedication to the employees, get used to it.
It sounds like you probably have an excellent resume and skill set, so there's a good chance you can find further employment when you're laid off. Others who work for smaller companies may not be as lucky. "lead developer" for some company with no widespread reputation, could mean absolutely nothing. Being able to do an interview well will get their foot in the door, and their performance after that will show their worth.
As a foreigner living in US for some years I got scared by the way our fellow americans live with Debt.
First thing is check your mortgage and check if it is possible to re-adjust or re-finance with lower interest and after check ways for you pay it in ADVANCE.
Being as employer and employee I can assure you:
The man who has freedom, real freedom (paid his house and has 'easy' cost of living) is in better way and better mindset to negotiate.
Anecdotal story:
I had to fill a position for medium level from several applicants I had 2 very distinct.
a) One was middle age (35) but has all his house paid, and he even took one year in Paris just 'for learn French'
b) Other was 45 and have 20 years of mortgage because he fall for the 'housing bubble'
The guy with the paid mortgage was very calm on interview, proactive and well mannered.
Other the mortgage guy was desperate and near a hear attack.
I had to choose the free mortgage guy because he was the best choice for the company. technically and MENTALLY
Please, I assure you I want the best for all the fellow man who live this country.
Can you 'downsize' your costs? move to a smaller but PAID(or lower month paymnt) apt? Bring MORE safety for your family but less 'luxury'.
I know the american dream is big spaces or house, but really. Do you really need that?
What about get downsized on costs and Later move on but more security?
Medicare and Social Security ONLY works if you had ALREADY paid your house.
I hope for your safety and best for your family
All of you testosterone-laden Brogrammers should read and heed. No matter how smart you think your are now, you'll work your asses off for the next 20-30 years, become "too old", "too expensive", or obsolete in the eyes of the future hiring managers (and many Slashdot readers). Some of you may hit the jackpot, but most of you won't. Heaven forbid you should want a spouse, a family, AND a career.
The educational standards around the world will continue to improve, and you'll be competing for lower and lower wages with professionals around the planet. The biggest companies/industries are offshoring the fastest: (see http://www.cringely.com/tag/ibm/ ). The same thing at Oracle, HP, ... Meanwhile, they continue to clamor for more H1-B visa workers.
If you want to stay technical, keep your skills up, and consider alternative sectors - either niche companies or maybe even DOD contract work (not glamorous, but it won't be offshored...). If you get an MBA, my guess is that you'll be working on business models that just accelerate offshoring.
I have many 50-something peers who are grappling with these issues. There's no right answer. Best of luck.
Hard to say
No actually it is quite easy to say - you stopped being a country on the frontier with lots of virgin territory (both literal and figurative) to expand into and became an adolescent country with established business interests that fight tooth and nail against any new, entrepreneurial ideas that threaten their business model.
On the good side your spirit still seems to be there - look at the boom created by the new virtual territory of the internet which allowed original ideas to flourish briefly again because the established interests did not see it as a threat. Of course now it has its own established interests and, if you start something new and successful, you'll be snowed under by patent court cases until you are bought out or shut down.
this is the attitude that prevents more and more people from being employed.. I hope they show up at your door and rob you of everything you own.
You are aware that Canada is North from the US, right? ...just checking.
If you are truly fearful for your job, apply to other companies. The job market is not at zero right now. I changed careers twice this year without breaking a sweat. If you can't switch laterally, ask yourself, are my skill sets unique or easily duplicated? If you are just a sheep, start diversifying your responsibilities, get additional training, or even go to school part time. Develop skill sets that no one else can replicate, and you will always be in demand.
Stay skeptical, my friends.
Jesus? George Bush? I'm totally lost.
Hey its going to end in blood and tears for everyone, take comfort in that. The thing that upsets me about my age is not my employment prospects... its more I look at all those hot young chicks all over the place and then I see that old bitch eyeing me and I go to myself, yeah look at her thats the one you could have and oh boy I am so NOT interested. The only thing that helps me out here is that I can do fat chicks, so I compromise I get a bit younger for a lot fatter but hey life is a bad deal that only gets worse.
Now as far as my expectations of the future go, hey I'm not a piece of cattle like you knees trembling as I'm getting closer to the slaughterhouse. Don't get me wrong my meat is just as sold as yours is, its just maybe I'm not as attached to all of this here than you are. Me ... I actually make good money in IT but you know the day that stops I always have the option of shooting a bunch of cops into the face until one takes me down. Okay probably not my first thing to try but to illustrate. What do I care, its not like I have to spend eternity as a bitter old fuck, everything will come to an end at some point and that is a VERY good thing. The moment I realize that my quality of life drops and the effort I have to invest to maintain it gets too high I can always cheat, lie, steal, rob and murder. Life my friend is a game and it will end. Your 40 now, given your choice of food and habits you may not even live to see 60. I'm in my mid 40's myself but I take very good care of my health and I watch very closely what I eat and drink. if there's any advise for you here then its take huge doses of vitamins (80kIU of vit d3 a day for a few weeks then drop to 20kIU will restart your dick and get your mind focused on bitches instead of doom) research vitamins and minerals, cut out all crap and only eat organic and make sure to eat a lot of animal fat and protein. It'll add to your problem of living longer than you want but when you enter the slaughterhouse at least you wont be limping. Dont take any ( prescription) drugs and meds aside from maybe pot and dont take any vaccines. 4mg of folic acid a day will snap you out of your depression, research that too... in short grow a dick and a brain and know this isnt Disneyland (if you knew what goes on there lol).. In closing its hell, you may find yourself some day panhandling at the traffic light I do know a few things you dont lol but hey it will all end for you too, I promise bro.
His family *was* growing until he took an arrow to the knee.
You must master your joystick like a fisherman masters bait! - Gimpy
If you aren't talented, suck up and suck dry.
If you do not have the skills to walk into a small office and dazzle them, then you really need to have a good vacuum connection to you managers needs retain your corporate gig.
If you really can actually code and provide solutions quickly then finding a small office that needs a "guru" is an option. I found myself in a situation where not only did I need to run from a flaming trainwreck and find a new resource I had to also learn how to run a server that I had to set up from rock bottom that ran a website, media site, kb, and an email solution.
It's all about work ethic, the ability to walk into a workforce and provide solutions, and just being solid in what you tell others you can provide. You also have to be ready to step up and make the hard things seem easy.
_ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
>When necessary, stay up till 4 AM writing code. Build a team of hungry programmers. Build a team of guys who code all day, and go home and code a little more when they're not playing Diablo or whatnot.
Are you looking forward to ill-health (Weekends? 4AM? Your body is not going to put up with that kind of shit forever), divorce, and/or alienated kids (assuming you even manage to keep a stable relationship)?
This isn't meant as an insult. It's just the naked truth. That kind of shit is for twenty-somethings who don't know any better.
Coming to this site for advice on how to stay employable is about as useful as coming to this site for advice on... well, anything. That is to say, it's not going to help you much, but it does have some entertainment value.
Anyhoo, since I'm near your age and near your level, I have the same concerns. My advice (and my above statement applies to my advice as well) is to check the job boards and see what's needed. What are employers looking for? This will guide you as to what experience you should add. My second piece is to not burn bridges and keep up your network. I have a handful of people now in other positions who will keep me in mind. I've also helped a couple people get into jobs myself. Granted, there's no guarantee they'll help, but it's all about increasing changes. If you want to stay employable in your current job, make sure your work is seen by as many rungs up as possible.
It's tough to say whether you should get an MBA, become a manager, do consulting. What works for one may not work for another.
FWIW I had a check I deposited at an ATM "corrected" for /10 the amount.
I called the bank and they said they don't make that kind of errors.
I insisted. Finally they checked and wow, they were wrong!
All this was in one phone call of 10 min (not several spread over hours).
Within half an hour I was credited back the proper amount.
The difference between my experience and what you describe?
I'm with a Credit Union (NCUA, not FDIC). Seriously, there is no excuse to be with any NA (not BofA, not Chase, not Wells Fargo, no-one).
Go to a local credit union and you will never go back to a regular bank.
-nB
whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
Step 2: Fight Superman ....
Step 3:
Step 4: Profit.
I am sorry, but I just don't see the age discrimination. Perhaps it is because I don't work in the startup field. Perhaps things are different in Texas. But I just don't see the age discrimination.
My first official developer position was obtained three years ago at age 42. now I will say that my resume helps a lot. A school I attended helped me with it and it works. In short, I can easily score 5 interviews a week with my resume. And for the record, I see plenty of guys who are older than me doing fine in finding a new job. If you have good .NET skills and are willing to do the work that is needed there are plenty of jobs in DFW.
I suspect that I would not ind it as easy to work for a startup. Then again, I would be guessing as I have no desire to put the number of hours that startups are reputed to ask.
But there are some realities that I am aware of. They would include that I have likely topped out on the pay scale. Also, I have to keep my skills current with the market. (I left a job last year because of that.) I don't have any illusions of being in .NET until retirement. At the same time, if it is still the hot market I will stay in it that long.
But I am confident that there will always be established companies in need of a good programmer. And that is where I plan to stay for as long as the ride is good. Go look at Dice and see what companies are looking for. Make sure you know those technologies. And if your resume doesn't attract attention than something is wrong. Get it fixed. Don't act like you are a gift from heaven, but be confident. And lastly remember that it is easier to find employment when you are employed. If you think they may people off in six months, it is time to be finding the new job. Your current company will not be super loyal to you. Don't put yourself at risk for them.
Contracting can be good (been there, done that for many years), but you have to be prepared for the lean times when they come.
I am a senior IT manager in an investment bank in my mid 40's, one of six who run a group of 1,500, yet my aim is to still code for some hours of the day. I sit with the core team on the development floor (average age - in their 40's). One of my peers does the same, four do not - this is choice about management style. Management does not mean "not technical".
Great people are always in demand. Find the "right" sort of organization/group to work for - one that does modern methodologies (agile) and modern technologies (mixed imperative/functional languages, no-sql etc.) where you can stay up to date. Don't assume you'll ever make yourself invaluable by being the guy maintaining the legacy system - it's just that kind of stuff that some crazy manager thinks about outsourcing.
You don't need to worry if you're truly technical and good at it. Ask yourself - are you good enough? If not, make yourself good enough.
IT is a dying field because no one in management values it properly and it is mind bogglingly complex. You either struggle in the small companies for too liitle pay and/or too little budget and small office politics or struggle in large companies with the same problems in their large company forms.
I'd suggest you become an electrician and work up to Red Seal Journeyman. With your knowledge of networks and with the hardware skills on wiring and fibre you get a broad spectrum of related skills that allow you to move between companies and cities. Someone else sells the suits on the project. You implement it.
Electricity and data flow can't be outsourced and is needed for everything. That's job security.
I am 39, going 40 this year. 3 years ago, I was an RPG programmer (IBM Iron). My employer, TD Waterhouse bank, had no interest in moving to more modern tech.
I saw the writing on the wall to my carer, I needed to act. So, I made a facebook game..... it was pretty pants poor, though I did learn new skills. More importantly, I was able to show this game off in an job interview for a Java Web developer.... I got the job because of it.
So, my advice to you is to build your own personal project, Make a website, make a facebook game. the game might not get you anywere, but it will improve your carrier prospects no end.
Congratulations, you've just invented the Caricature Assassination, my aren't we clever! Why do you people keep associating Obama with liberals? He is the limpest of milk-toast moderates, he's only liberal compared to the neo-nazi's and religious whack-o-doodles that wander mumbling to themselves on the Republican side of the House/Senate. I'm beginning to think that we should consider spiking the Republican water fountain with Thorazine as a national safety measure. I think the only true remaining liberal in the Senate is an ex-writer for Saturday Night Live. The Dems are now moderate conservatives and the Reps are simply shocking... no, I mean WTF, I get dizzy whenever I read the latest stupid thing uttered by a Washington Republican. They're like flounders, they only have a bottom and a right side. Its like Picasso had a psychotic break and breathed life into a one sided scribble.
You wanna know who's against managing illegal aliens? The Reps, because it would be bad for business. As for birth control, you can't have it both ways, you can't complain about them being here, then complain about the solution to fix the problem. Let me think, contraceptive pill 30 cents, new American Citizen with poor foreign national parents... from birth to 18, what $200,000 tax dollars? More? Even if you count all the contraceptive pills that couple can use over 18 years, those are some of the best tax dollar that ever got spent, talk about a bargain!
That's the other thing about these conservative spewings, they keep harping about the same crap, none of it makes any sense, none of it holds up to even the slightest logical inspection. Its just more mouth breathing, knuckle dragging noise being regurgitated by some "Click Head". You know why they call them "Click Heads" right? Because the poor little petrified bean between their ears makes a clicketty sound whenever the breeze between their ears rattles it around.
Oh, and one last thing... if you been getting that "called a racist, homophobic, bigot" thing a lot, perhaps its not the people pointing out the obvious who are the problem. Just a nugget for you to chew on, nightie, night.
Despite what many say, middle management is NOT the way to go. I keep hearing people say that becomming a manager means a safe path to retirement because all you have to do is talk BS to justify your own position and tech people can be replaced cheaply by the young. In my experience managers are the ones that usually have the axe over their heads and the tech people who have stayed relevant and up to date (and actually do the actual work that the IT department is there to do) have a brighter future. Really good tech people are HARD to find (at least in Australia) and companies are usually desperate to hang on to them. I see so many tech people loose touch without knowing it though, and 5-7 years later the ground has moved from under them and they are stuck. Basically they get lazy or convince themselves that the way they are used to is the right way. This is one of the reasons I prefer contracting unless I am in a kick arse team.
I know a guy who is 55 and has an extensive work history as a Software Architect. He is REALLY good at his job and is simply never without work as a contractor. I know good senior developers who have recruiters belting down the doors as well. I currently work with a tech lead on the other hand who refuses to acknowledge anything beyond the existance of .NET 2.0 (and even then only a small subset of it) and spends all of his time reading Sci Fi books...but knows the system back to front so can't be fired. If the company folds though...he is in deep water.
Swings and roundabouts I guess...
Rather than doing all that hardwork for someone else, why not work for yourself? It's by no means easy, but assuming you are resourceful enough to keep the business running, no one is ever gonna remove you from your employment.
We'll never make it.......oh! we made it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWf3iJjqYCM&list=FL7kKrE4eTs17mQl7eyvJIOg
No offence intended, but how did you manage to get to 40 without savings? A senior developer for an investment bank doesn't sound like a badly paid job.
Consider emigrating. There are some places in the world where your skills are valued and in demand. I live in New Zealand. Currently there are more openings for skilled IT employees than can be filled. The same is true for Australia and I suspect that there are other places with similar situations. You may find that you have to initially take a lower salary than your US salary, but keep in mind that the cost of living is / may be somewhat lower. Work is available for both full time and contract employees.
For NZ, if you are under 55 and have documented skills and qualifications, you can probably qualify. You might consider contacting a firm specialising in IT recruitment / contracting. There are several in NZ. Good luck.
Thank you, for sharing it, and hope better luck will find you sometime.
"You take the blue pill – the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill – you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes."
..which pill to choose.
I took the red pill 4 years ago. I was a senior tech drone at a university and could have easily spent another 25 years to retirement skating in the tech side of academia. I woke up one day at 43 years old, looked back, and realized my life had been stolen. I had spent 5/7th of my existence doing things I didnt give a shit about while waiting for the weekend to cram my life into.
I decided enough was enough and I walked away.
I took my savings and retirement and got rid of every debt I owed and bought some land. I started a small business and got my monthly living expenses under $1000. Im at about $600 right now and hope to go lower.
I built a house by hand..still working on it, but its all mine, every stinking stick of wood.
Ive got a ways to go as Im working towards doing the farm thing..but thats my path. Decide what yours is and follow it. Maybe it is to be an employee, maybe that fulfills you.. but I suspect deep down that no intelligent person really wants to work until they are old, used up. I suspect they are just doing it because they are afraid of the unknown and afraid of losing their security. The question is, is security worth looking back on your life to realize you never really lived?
No, its not easy. No, it is not fun. No it is not secure. But yes...yes it is freedom and hell yes it is living. At least for me.
Which pill
Whatever you do, do not go looking up the receptionists address in the records, so you can send her flowers when she's having a bad day. Also, make sure medicare covers a second opinion. You don't want to be diagnosed with a brain tumor that you don't have.
I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
So let's assume he started managing at 20, probably older than that but let's say that. So he was born in ~1943. Let's say 'recently' means within the last 5 years, again generous I know, so 2007. That would make him 67.
I love the smell of bullshit in the morning.
Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
If you are happy cutting code then stay where you are.
Not every programmer makes a good manager. The psycological makeup of a manager is different to that of a coder.
Many of my worst managers (I retire in a few years) were pretty good coders.
Several have given up the management rat-race and returned to developement roles just to keep themselves sane and have some family life.
I have never wanted to be a manager. I know my limitations.
In my current role, I cut code but I also do a lot of detailed specification work. I'm off to Brazil for two months soon to write the detailed specs to a large system. I'm taking the wife with me. Rio even in winter is a pretty nice place to work.
I had similar concerns and this is what I did, and how it turned out.
[Sorry this is so long, but I spent way too much time making it this short.]
At about your age I was facing the prospect of going the management route or doing what I loved. I had been acting like a manger as a team lead but avoiding much of the messy side of dealing with personel. I was expected to move on up and take on the added burdens of full management and give up the hands-on fun (for me) stuff. Didn't want it, yet I saw what happened to 50 year olds who didn't move up. I didn't want that either. So, I planned an exit strategy, and left becoming more or less a consultant. I had an incorporated company(very important to be an employee of a company - not a freelancer) already set up and 6 months of cash put away before I left.
Here are a few key things that worked for me. They weren't really part of my strategy, but just came naturally, and really paid off.
(1) I really cared about the folks (mostly 10 to 15 years younger) I was leaving behind, and I wanted them to succeed after I left. I made it a point to mentor them, so they could survive after I left.
(2) I really cared about the organization and the current projects I was working on, and delayed my departure for a year, to make sure they succeeded and there was a heir apparent team lead to take over.
(3) I didn't tell anyone what I was planning, other than my wife, my dad (who had just retired) and a close uncle.
(4) When I was ready to leave, I went to my boss, and told him I would like to sit down with his boss and anyone else that they wanted to invite and explain exactly why I was leaving, what I intended to do after I left, and make sure that any rumors would be put to bed about why I was leaving. I reviewed everything I would say with my boss, and asked for any suggestions he had that might make what I said as painless as possible for him and his boss.
(5) The main points of that meeting were (1)(2) and (3) and I wanted them to know what I planned, before my peers and team members found out, so they could prepare to deal with any fallout.
(6) I also offered that I would stay up to 6 more months to help finish or transition projects, or I was prepared to be escorted by security on the spot to clean out my desk (which was official human resources policy at my previous job).
(7) The last and maybe most important point I tried to make in this meeting was that I was hoping not to burn any bridges, because they, the organization, the bosses, the team members helped make my career, and I didn't want them thinking bad about me, because who knows, they might even need me from time to time as a consultant. I told them that, I wasn't just thinking about it.
Now frankly, I figured I had a 50-50 shot of being shown the door immediately or worse. They probably thought I was a bit crazy leaving excellent pay and benefits for an uncertain future, but seemed to respect the approach I was taking.
Bottom line - they asked me to stay on for 6 more months and gave me a great send off complete with memorabilia. 6 months after that I was their consultant and they started outsourcing some development tasks, and now 12-1/2 years later, I still do work for them. Most of my income comes from other sources, but they are a dependable customer and the people I left behind have brought me a lot of business through their natural networking. My house is paid for, both my kids went to college, for as long as they wanted, and are doing very well in their chosen professions. I'm able to give away a substantial portion of my income to benefit those less who are less fortunate. So at least to this point it as worked out well by any measure.
One last part but not the least part of this story - (I'm pretty sure this will get mod'ed down because it cuts so much against the grain), I prayed this whole thing through, before during and after. I 'knew' this was the right thing for me to do and there was a right way to do it.
Full disclosure: Yes I'm one of those. In
Seems to me that if you're describing the rest of your career as "25 long years" that you're doing something really wrong. But you and I have made some really different life choices. Me: no degree (dropped out), 2nd house, no kids. But we're both senior developers.
My last job got insourced (h1b's), which was the right thing for them to do - the work was crap and dull and generic - not much need for clever coding. So it was time to move on to something more interesting. But that's what I've done for the past decade or so - new job every 2-4 years, mostly leaving on very good terms and mostly enjoying the new job.
But I like coding. I really like it. I've disappointed previous employers when I told them I would in no way consider doing management. Tech lead is fine, but management is right out. I don't have the temperament, interest, or training. Do you?
Why would you consider keeping with programming? Why would you want to manage at a place where the politics sucks?
It seems to me that you really have two decisions to make:
What do you really want to do?
Where do you really want to do it?
My advice is that you probably should not keep doing what you're doing. 25 years is a long time to do something you don't enjoy. And certainly you should leave your current workplace.
Several studies have shown that the peak years for sexual enjoyment in women is the range 36-44. I won't bore you with the details except to note that experience bears this out.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
MY MOM!!!!
"That's right...I said it."
By the time I was 40 I had grown up, and I hope you do too. Knowing what I now know, I wouldn't hire you, because your driven lifestyle makes you likely to miss the big picture ("obsess over every little mistake" - no, you need to get a sense of proportion to fix large code bases), and you want a team of people like you (overly narrow focus). Fine, no doubt, if you want to design HFT systems, but not so good when a variety of real world problems with different priorities are flooding in all the time and a balanced, rational approach is needed to manage the workload and stay sane.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
Another thing: there are plenty of plumbers but not that many intelligent plumbers. The same goes for electricians. A plumber with IT qualifications will normally have the business and topological skills to do the job better and for less than a plumber without, and before long will be contracting those plumbers to work under his direction.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
You just reached at your mid-life, so these questions appear.
You must first determine what is your value in your work.
What are you doing that nobody else can do in your company ?
This is your real value !
Ask around you what people think of you by holding them an anonymous questionnaire, where you ask them what is the biggest point they like about you, and all the points they dislike.
Ask feedback whenever possible, it's difficult to know what we are, only others know it.
In my case, I had to quit game programming at 38, after 18 years of games.
I'm now working in a start-up since 9 years, my life is more stable, and I've finished paying my house.
I'm now 47, and want to evolve even more, so I communicate a lot, and try to improve my relationships with people.
Good luck !
This is why we browse at +1, proof that the moderation system is in fact not flawed, if only to catch comments from idiots like you.
I would suggest you go to lots of interviews... You actually learn a lot in them. I myself did the same a few months ago. I had worked in one job for a number of years, and considered myself up to date with the latest trends. After a few interviews, I noticed how outdated I was. I had absolutely no ideas about a few technologies they would mention. So I decided to catch up, every time I they asked me something I didn't know or saw it in a job ad, I would research the technology for a few days, play with it, and add to my CV (with a low level of competency, I don't like having a dishonest CV). I learned a lot not only in terms of technology, but also best practices like SOLID principles, TDD and BDD, etc... The result was amazing: from my last 3 interviews, I got 3 job offers ! So use interviews as a tool to find out what you need to learn and measure if you are good enough or not. I myself plan to go to interviews at least once a year, even if I don't plan to change jobs, just so I keep contact with the market. The best financial security a person like you can have is having the skills the market demands at all times.
Contracting is the way to go if you have a vast skill set to draw from. Buying a house completely limits your job market. I sold mine and have been contracting every since and I am older than you are.
When it comes time to jump on a new gig I am not geographically limited, I just pack my shit and roll to where the cash is.
Got Code?
only go down the management route if its something you are good at, expect a pay cut at first teer management if you want to stay technical then update your cv, make sure your techinal skills are upto date and get some interviews (think of the first few interviews as practice, dont be put off by rejection)
most of all, be proactive, it does not hurt to look around, just because you have an interview doesnt mean you have to take the job, and if you know you can get another job it makes you negotiations at your current employerthat much stronger.
Also the advice about getting into some of the trickier problems was a good one, your less likly to be laid off if your noticedand known to be helpful
being 40 should not be an issue if your good at your job, keep your skills upto date and remain flexible
Hunger is the strategy of the unfulfilled, the novice, the passionate and young. Those who have energy to burn and few other commitments. Most people who see themselves that way cannot conceive of working any other way. It would feel like a kind if death, or sell out to them.
This is not to say you can't be passionate as an older, more experienced worker, but you have to target it. You have other things, aka, a life, to focus on.
I speak as someone bridging that gap over the last 5 years or so. I'm 44, with a 3 year old son. I still care, but you wont find me up at 4am sharpening my mad skillz. its different for everyone. For me, I try to apply my experience of building great (and bad) software to our team. I specialised in software security and cryptography. I try to widen the scope of my young, passionate colleagues.
After leaving University in 1997 I was employed for 10 years before finally being forced to take a sabbatical due to workplace bullying damaging my mental health. I took the time out to write a book, and the success of that one has prompted me to write a second one, which is due out soon.
It wasn't my planned career goal. I have been trying for many years now to re-enter the workplace and I would be willing to do anything, from data input to development to straightforward admin; and most people won't even look at my CV - perhaps because I have reached that magic age (40) where long-term unemployment becomes an inevitability. I hardly ever receive an acknowledgement for my CV, but have noticed some small recognition after someone suggested that I write a more conversational resume to make it stand out. I try to maintain an active interest in the latest technology and often indulge in small projects to keep my programming edge, but beggers truly can't be choosers, and I'd settle for any employment.
Because I left my last job, I get no Job Seekers Allowance, and we get a token £5 reduction in our £100+ council tax. Also because my wife works we get little support from anyone - even though, despite working for a major multinational bank and is the recognised top performing employee for this region, she gets paid peanuts.
I have written to every benefits agency I can think of, and have even tried my MP (Andrew Lansley) but they won't/can't help. Its almost as if the Government is happy to take money off people but when it comes to dispensing support they all turn their backs.
I am overwhelmed with guilt as my parents, both pensioners, help us with our rent each month to the tune of £500 (our rent is £700, we can't afford to move or put our stuff into storage so we're in a no-win situation); all we get is £100 in benefits and we make up the balance meaning that we often go to bed hungry.
So good luck to anyone who thinks we live in a society that cares for its down-trodden citizens. Once you're on the road to penury there is little chance of escape.
My web domain.
You wont have to burn the place down if you dont mess up any mundane details.
Mundane details like the fact that banks have extreme levels of protection regarding things like this?
"No one ever got fired for buying from IBM" was only true until people started getting fired for buying from IBM.
Enjoy your Zune.
I don't know anyone who programs as a full time job at 60. And you want to work until 65, right? Start turning your career into project management, program management or software engineering management. Leverage all of that technical know how and years of accumulated wisdom into managing teams and keeping projects running well. There's no shame in that and you can make those around you better and continue to deliver value to the business and your customers.
Along with that, stay current on the newest technologies, processes, methodologies and tools.
1- Be part of the 1% by following step 2;
2- ??? (keep trying till you succeed.)
3- employ yourself, set your salary and bonuses at the expensive of cheap labor, because worker rights are a threat to your now rich and useless redundant existence, enjoying your new social status by traveling from golf courses to one of your mansions getting high enjoying the company of your family, and your wife's when the kids aren't around :)
4- Sometimes you'll have to do some quick work, such as signing some checks and papers to bribe..eerr create cheap and vulnerable jobs at some local needed politican to keep business flowing, nothing hard or complicated so don't worry. And you could even get a tax break!
5- Profit!
Yes i have nothing usefull to contribute. But really, neither did any of you. None of these advices will help/change the outcome of his employment, whatever that may be.
You would be well served to come to work for Met Life as an Insurance Salesperson. WIth your level of knowledge and skills sets AND contacts, you could do very well for yourself and 'hit the ground running' See two articles in WSJ: "A Hot Job for Hard Times: The Insurance Salesperson". There is another article in WSJ about how a number of Ivy Leaguers are doing the same thing, even though neither them or their faimilies ever anticiptaed it. WIth their contacts, they will do very well for themselves .
If you want job security you need dirt and lots of it. Invest some cash in hiring a crooked PI to follow your higher management and get plenty of incriminating photos. Maybe arrange for a few. At your next appraisal, casually drop a few key words into the conversation to let them know what you have. "I hope you like my submission. As a team leader, I am a strict disciplinarian and can work to a punishing schedule. I know all about stocks and bonds.", etc. Job for life...
----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
Some people think that an MBA will make them rich and is the inside track to success and MBAs got a bad rap because of that.
However any management qualifications gives you additional options. Also shop around. My company would not pay for a MBA but they were willing to put up 50% towards an management degree from an engineering school. Management degree from the engineering school cost 30% of the MBA but covers 75% of the same material.
Obligatory:
Joke: --------->
O
/ | \
/ \
^You
And since I suck at ascii art, you are falling apart.
Monstar L
and be possessive of it.
Dude. You're a senior software engineer. You already have some of the most employable skills on the planet. If you're worrying about job security, you're not trying hard enough.
How to stay employable?
Keep abreast of new stuff: new language developments, new development concepts, new methodologies. (flippant examples: Groovy / Scala / NoSQL / Hadoop )
Learn Agile/Scrum if you haven't already.
Take up contracting, and get some interesting work in a different field. Try telecoms or media or something - just break away from financial for a bit.
You should be thinking of graduating to a senior architect level, which will still require technical involvement but with project management expertise.
You will have no need to worry about being jobless. Be brave!
At age 43, I retired.
I was a software developer and never "made it big." I simply lived below my means and was paid above average salaries the last decade. Prior to that, I was paid below average rates. BTW. the house was paid off at age 38.
If you aren't almost read to retire by age 45 (financially speaking), then you are doing it all wrong. Grow up. Make the hard decisions. LIVE BELOW YOUR MEANS.
I'm not super wealthy and don't jet off around the world all the time, but I do travel. Did 5 countries of Europe for a few weeks each this year. I've done Asia, South America and Central America in this way too.
Since most people can't act like adults and manage their money, they need to plan to work until they are 67.
For SW developers, the only way to ensure that is to stop working for someone else. You need your own company.
* You should have been building industry contacts all this time based on a stellar reputation at work.
* You should have been ignoring those non-compete clause contracts from you current employer and been working on a few products at home all this time.
* You should have been teaching your wife to spend less. After all, exactly what is the use for all those shoes and jewelry? You can't eat them and the market for resale is terrible.
* With an excellent product nearly ready for sale, quite your job, contact possible clients, and get a few sales. Be certain you set the price to bring in $200K+ yr. 40% goes to taxes - I use 50% for estimating, since there are always "other" expenses.
Act like an adult the next 20 yrs, save some money, learn to invest in companies stock (not trading), and get ready for a fun time.
I interview ALL THE TIME. I have my resume out there ALL THE TIME, even if I like the job I'm in.
Why? Is money the most important thing in your life?
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
I am also 40 years old, though most of my career has been in IT and not coding, a few simple things that I do to keep me on the bleeding edge and upwardly employed. FWIW: NO degree, 2 IPO, 10 start ups, 1 patent, and a small family....
1. Read: get in the good habit of reading something new and related to your area for _at_least_ an hour every day. I am not talking slashdork but white papers, RFCs, other people's code. Learn as much as you can, you don't need a school to do that. Though use the net and avoid books, more often than not the material that hits pulp is damn near obsolete by the time it lands on the shelves of your local book seller.
2. Experiment and always have something going on the side: I keep a small lab at home, where I code, build, and test out new business ideas, sometimes I turn them up for public use, and more often I sell them outright to people who think they can make money with them. Most often the experiments and ideas go nowhere, but every hour I put into it becomes real resume material and ultimately lands me contracts.
3. Skip the MBA, and think about alternatives. Perhaps a second BS/BA in something entirely different, something that interests you. Roughly 5% of the MBA I know and have worked with had any sort of technical clue. Most of those had more business sense than technical knowledge. The key is to differentiate yourself from the herd. If you can manage a MBA while constantly improving your technical acumen, then go for it, however, there are an awful large number of unemployed MBA out there.
4. Consider porting your skills to a less risky enterprise. I got my start consulting and in the early-90s went into IT/NetworkOps for start-ups at the beginning of the bubble. Years later I find myself much more risk aware and less willing to work for stock options, I am again working in consulting, providing my technical knowledge and skill to the highest bidder.
5. Look before you leap, just because there is a downturn now (hello bubbles of 2001 and 2008) absolutely does not mean that there will not be an uptick in a year or two. During the most recent downturn I spent a year working as a carpenter for the change of pace while i continued working in my lab. I got to see the world with fresh eyes, and got a decent paycheck and work out while building beautiful things and improving my skills in other areas.
TLDR; exercise caution, keep on practicing and studying, focus on the future doing something you care for, and spend time with your family. For the only things that really matter are the connections we have with those we love, and that we spent our lives doing something that meet our needs. In your old age how much money you made will be the least important of things.
1. Being an independent is t ough - you'll spend a lot of. Ike looking for jobs so you rate needs to cover that. You could sign on with a body shop that provides staff but then hey need to take a cut and will want to beat down your rate. insurance - get your spouse to take a job that offers it. At 40, buying it on your own is expensive. If you do go the independent route, join local orbs with independents and hang out for a year to get a feel for what it takes. 2. That is your best play. Beef up that skill with your current employer so if you do get laid off you can offer an array of skills. You might consider going with an implementation consulting firm that can hire programmers cheap but need good project managers. 3.An MBA can be a good career changer. If you go that route, do night school and get your employees to help foot the bill if the will. Go to the best school you can- if your in NYC, Stern or Columbia. Philly? Wharton. Chigaco - UC or NW. San Francisco - Cal. Atlanta - Emory or possibly GaTech At your age, the job hunt will be harder and you need a name brand to help you out. It can be very rewarding, though, with a combo of MBA/tech background. Don't think about staying in finance - most firms will not think your experience is in finance but IT. Consulting firms are your best bet, along with traditional firms. I'd also consider a government job. While they are suffering from pay freezes, the benefits are good, pay is decent and the retirement is pretty darn good.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
In your model world there will only exist crap software, as there are no experienced software engineers around to make it. That model might correctly describe *some* places, but certainly not all. Just look at all the semi-pensioners who work for Google. Do you think they are employed for charitable reasons ?
No, but because they are real experts at creating nice, efficient and well-working systems. Good people are valued irrespective of age, but you might have to quite the crap corporation you are currently with and look for a better one. But then, you can develop software until age 79, when Alzheimer's begins to start or your heart craps out.
"the most employable skills on the planet" lulz
ever notice how they stay in the same jobs for 10 years, maybe 20? while managers, consultants, experts, systems analysts, etc, get layed off repeatedly?
go be a peon.
not joking. you can still get layed off, its just that they will always need someone to repeatedly do boring ass work shuffling stuff from one place to another.
I am over 40 years old and the best thing I have done in regard to my career is to get a Top Secret Clearance. In my search for employment I found a few companies who are willing to hire people contingent upon getting a TS clearance. If you record is clear, it is a very good opportunity. Having a TS with a background in software development means that I can easily earn over 150K a year, have a 4 week paid vacation, plus health benefits. Plus at any time I can give my notice because a) There are many developer position open that require a TS b) If you have C++ and java skills you are in high demand. c) Cyber security is hot and will remain hot. If you can get a career in that field you will be in demand for the next decade. Location does make a difference. Most TS jobs are in Northern VA, DC and Maryland. But there are other places such as Huntsville, AL, Atlanta GA. Just look around and see if any companies such as SAIC, CSC, Boeing, Northrup, Lockhead Martin are offering to get you a TS clearance. Remember to apply in areas like Cyber Security which will always remain hot.
that's what grid hedging scalper robots do on the foreign exchange market.
I have no idea what that means, but it sounds cool.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
It can't be outsourced, and have you ever heard of an unemployed plumber?
The only 40-something American-born plumber I know is underemployed. Much of the work he used to get has been outsourced to illegal immigrants who get hired for cheap as shit pay because they are untrained, unskilled, young and illegal.
Tradespeople have the same problems that IT workers do except that their pay didn't get as high first.
Don't get any older; if possible, get younger.
Well there's a big part of the problem right there. Maybe her free ride needs to end.
"Considering medicare does not kick in till 65, I am still looking at 25 long years of career. I am wondering what the best way would be for me to stay employable in the coming years?"
good luck with your life.. is that the extent of your retirement planning???? and you don't have a house or at least down money socked away yet? from the math I'm assuming you are 40... in a tech career... I'm not trying to be snarky, I don't know you or your background.. but from what few lines I've read I'm not encouraged about your situation from what little I do have. I am forming opinions based on incomplete data. But it is extremely naive sounding that you'll be done at a perfect 65
Medicare is a failsafe that you can't count on, and even today does not provide enough for recipients to retire on from a medical standpoint.. it's just the only stopgap available.
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
This!
I've been there (3) times now - started 3 businesses. I worked my ass off, was constantly trying to drum up work, and had to do all the bookkeeping on my own and other chores.
There's noting like working 80 hours a week and then having to spend a Sunday putting together your quartilies for the IRS - and I had an accountant that helped me. And it's real fun when the IRS informs you that your forms you filed and the money they received don't match! Lot's of running around getting proof that you didn't do anything wrong - and proving the IRS made the mistake.
The worst is the sales. Getting business. Whenever I see on the net someone saying, "Oh, Just start a business!" ; usually with a tone of superiority of 'how could you NOT have thought of such a thing!', it's perfectly obvious that they never had a business. And it only counts if you are the one driving sales - (I see often folks who have a "consuilting business" where they get a 1099 or have an S-Corp. If you have just one or two clients what you really have is a job with a different tax status.)
There are a few that have over the years built up a contact list and can get a good start, but eventually, you'll be pounding the pavement looking for work like thaousands of others. And in anything IT related - especially WEB development and support - it is SATURATED!
But then again, how many of us are schmoozing with decision makers? Most of us just know other geeks and how to talk to them. Can you talk to a business guy and convince him that he needs to hire your firm?
Just start a business! Easy! Getting work is the bitch!
Oh. And for the record, don't buy a fucking house. Second worst decision I ever made, IMHO. The idea that it's the smart long term financial solution for everyone is total bullshit: http://genxfinance.com/your-home-is-not-an-investment-dont-treat-it-like-one/
The numbers in that article look entirely different if you compare them to renting. A profit of $22,000 doesn't look so bad when you compare it to paying rent every month for 10 years - -$1000 every month turns into -$120,000. I mean, you have to live somewhere, right? Think of a home as an overhead cost to be minimized. :P
Everybody who cares know the financial industry messed up big-time. So your job might(!) be on the chopper, but I doubt they can easily do that.
Anyway, if you have some fears, start looking at job boards for postings in all sorts of industries. Solid sysadmin and/or programming skills are appicable to many different settings. Many industries are quickly becoming data-heavy. Think of genetic engineering in the pharmaceutical industry, think diagnostics and error analysis in the automotive industry (more and more electronic control units generate a torrent of error/usage data), think of automation in mechanical factories, think of all those electronic control units in all sorts of machinery, think of genetic engineering in crop development.
All of these activities are in some way complex and/or high-volume data processing tasks. A modern car is easily as complex as a modern PC (in terms of software), for example.
So, do some interviews just to sound out the market. If you don't have undue self-imposed restrictions, there will be many, many opportunities out there. Your qualifications are at the leading edge of civilization and it does not matter the industry you are currently working in has messed up. Move to a different industry and see your career prosper !
I am still looking at 25 long years of career.
Welcome to the club :)
I am wondering what the best way would be for me to stay employable in the coming years?"
IMO, remain technical. Regardless of whether you move up the managerial ladder, remain technical.
"1. Should I stay technical, and be ready to work as consultant/contractor? How does medical insurance work in that case?"
Depends on the contracting agency. If you go completely solo (1099), it will come out of your pocket. If you go with a big contacting agency, they tend to have health plans for their contractors.
2. Should I capitalize on the domain knowledge, and move onto business/managerial side?
That's another possibility provided the business has room to go up.
3. Will the MBA degree or alternate career help?
A MBA, or MIS or Engineering Management degree certainly helps provided that you remain highly technical. By itself, such a degree does not necessarily help.
4. Any other suggestions?
For starters, remaining technical does not mean simply to become a contractor. You can also move to another company with your skills, for a better salary.
Always sharpen your technical skills. Seek out what's new, and carve your own niche. If you stay in the "enterprise" realm, go for a MIS and then a MBA. If you stay/go the more engineering oriented fields, get a graduate degree.
Also, never sell yourself before the level of senior. That is, at our age (and with the experience employers will rightfully expect from us), it is no longer appropriate to sell ourselves as just programmers. Aim for a senior/principal software engineering/architect or team lead position and climb up from there.
The most important thing is to have a vision (your plan A and plan B and plan ...). Where do you want to be, and what you need to do (work/study) and then go for it.
Harking back again on the technical, as seniors, we are expected to know about agility, refactoring, domain driven design, modeling, software architecture, project management, some sysadmin skills at least, and good OO and functional design skills (knowing for example *what* makes a class uncohesive for example.) That's where seniority and experience come to shine.
The worst thing we above the 40-year old bracket is to work just as a programmer/developer. That's a function that a person at the start of his career can do as well (and for less money)... or so that's how management sees it. So being in that position is being in the danger zone.
Don't swallow the "old guys cannot be coders/technical experts meme". Actually, too many inexperienced people are calling themselves "experts" on all sorts of computer subjects from Linux administration to C++ development. If you really have strong technical experience, sell that as your "unique skill". Many companies now know that they cannot let some 20-somethings design and built a critical system. As a programmer, you only start to become a really good developer at age 35, so being older than many others is actually a "strong point" when you sell yourself in an interview (regardless of whether is a perm or consulting interview).
I am a C++ developer of 38 (in the job since age 23, after getting a CS degree), and I only now feel I have solid skills. Should I switch to management now ? That would be a waste of hard-won skills, in my opinion. The free enterprise system normally does not value stupid behaviour, so wasting my skills is certainly not the right thing for me to do.
In the 70s careers tended to last 20+ years, in the 80s this number dropped to 6 years, The 90s came and distinctions blurred between jobs, careers, hobbies and survival. Buddy, we're 10+ years into the new millennium. Figure out what you need to do and quit looking at standard models.
Can you work for yourself?
Is there something you can manufacture or service you can perform without needing an overseer?
Are members of your family old/strong enough to contribute to a family business?
If you can quit relying on others for your prosperity, you can dump this whole useless line of worry.
IT has been a bust for careers, compared to the promise of the 90s. We may even be forced into ludditism by coming solar storms in the next few years.
Find a need or demand and fill it. Think outside the box. Learn self sufficiency and quit mourning money you threw at the last "career", it's gone and tomorrows challenges may not be helped by it. Dammit, you're a geek, get flexible and quit thinking about the obvious, overcrowded, overrated, overused path to a paycheck. Find something that people could pay cash for, too. If they don't know you have it, they can't tax it.
If you really need a moment to think and a jumpstart, it may sound ridiculous on the face of it, but, join an MLM. Even if you aren't successful, you will have a low cost education in business,sales and people skills, self motivation and probably a cupboard full of vitamins. These ingredients, less the vitamins are vital to being self employed.
Good luck with your search, may you satisfy your dreams along with your wallet.
Keep the kids coming, that's how we achieve some immortality and offset the scumbags of the world, who are breeding too.
Don't spend your time worrying, it can't help and will hurt. Replace worry with planning and get a good nights sleep.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
I can assure you, other people had similar problems. Just take your time to receover (it takes some years), and then Fix Your CV. Make it short and crispy, and most importantly, don't clue them to your "outage". Call it "self-employed" and have a story ready why you want to get a "regular" job again. For example "I regularly get new contracts, but we decided to have kids now, so I want to have more income security, etc, etc"
If you think that "lying is bad", then I feel sorry for you. The successful people in this world lie all the time; they start wars based on lies, they steal money from the public and their employers based on lies. The whole world would break down if all the little and bigger lies would have serious consequences. Just do it - it is the best for you and the employer who will get a valuable worker !
Make outsourcing work!
Honestly, if you work for a bank and can make outsourcing work, then you are golden. Make sure you learn the skills to communicate requirements, bugs and everything else to the best extend possible. Make sure you become the guy that translates between the local and remote team.
Questions and some discussion from my personal opinions: ...
Have you enjoyed being a technical expert? If so, management will drive you crazy. You say you are concerned about your career partly because of office politics. You do not sound like you are any good at that game. "Management" today is all about power games and office politics. Knowing about business management, business development, business administration, and business execution are valuable. But, that does not mean you have to stop being an expert in your field and specializing in business execution. From that perspective I do not advise trying to "move up" by getting an MBA and trying to become a manager. ...
Does your present situation limit your personal growth? As a technical expert myself, growth to me is having more and more freedom to do what needs to be done to solve increasingly difficult problems and undertake increasingly difficult applications of technology. (Technical team leadership is a part of that.) In this way, you build a reputation for results that does not depend on who you work for. Stay an employee if you like, especially if you would not like running a small business. However, keep your skills so high that you are in demand. Moving on is a risky undertaking but a professional person has to learn to manage risk. The time to move on is when you reach the peak of the wave, not when the wave is dying out. Still, do not ride the wave to the bottom. ...
Have you taken the long view of your career? It is important to build your career in such a way that you have something worthwhile to write in a resume and say during an interview. This kind of thinking goes beyond job hunting and into career building. Having a job is not the same as having a career. On my website (http://informationanthology.net/CareerMentor/) are posted articles by myself and others on this topic. ...
Best of luck in your efforts.
"My family is growing, my spouse does not work, and I still don't own a house...." Well, fix that first.
I am in the same boat.
Stay current, keep you eyes open, be positive. At this point in your career you can't be pissing people off or burning bridges. Stay fit, try to look as young as possible.
Move to DC and get a company or GS position that will sponsor you for a security clearance. Not some BS DOD Secret or Top Secret.... they vet school teachers more than that and these clearances are becoming worthless. Intel TS/SCI with a full scope poly. Employment for life as long as you keep your nose clean.
There are far too many lame engineers who lean on the clearance to remain employed, but it is an excellent hedge against ageism.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
Well there is a lot of advice here, so even I'd struggle coming up with a definitive list of best options.
But here is my example, that may or may not help you:
I worked as a senior analyst and had hit my limit in terms of salary and want to continue as a senior analyst. The Company I worked for had politics coming out of the management ears, people higher up carving their own empires whilst the staff suffered.
I am in my late 30's and needed to look either at management or improve myself. I even thought about leaving IT completely. But even though my old company had pushed me almost to the brink of hating technology IT and working in that field. I decided that what really was the problem, was I was not working for a good company, I had grown tired of worked for large or huge companies, where you were a number in IT. I didn't like being a systems analyst and looked at what skills I had to transfer to something else.
I looked around and found a small company where they had one guy leaving who did development, local IT management of servers etc and also deal with customers on IT related issues. It was a mixed bag, some good stuff and some bad. I did a little hacking around code, but never finished any projects, purely because I had other things to be doing outside of work. I had not dealt with VOIP tech before, being the company dealt with VOIP tech, it was another string to my bow. Lastly improving my server and computer knowledge as the business progress. I replace the IT chap and I am very happy. The place does not have the corporate garbage I come to hate, politics etc. I can directly help the company to grow in terms of IT and no manager can steal my idea, telling the senior managers what they came up with. I can decide on what route to take in tech and help with expanding what we currently have. Its great and I have a chance to do development, be more sociable with the family, because I am not improving my development skills soley at home.
So take from that what you will.
In your shoes, start looking, but it does sound like you need to get your passion back or look for alternatives.
Good luck!
>
Oh. And for the record, don't buy a fucking house. Second worst decision I ever made, IMHO. The idea that it's the smart long term financial solution for everyone is total bullshit: http://genxfinance.com/your-home-is-not-an-investment-dont-treat-it-like-one/
Wow, that's a terrible link. I mean, it's true that a home is not an investment by itself. But (except when the market was at it's most stupid) people don't buy homes to sit unoccupied... they buying them to live in them. So, rent savings is not a footnote, it's the primary freaking motivation. And by the way, their example is transparently stupid because it factors in inflation on money you haven't even put into the house (since in their example you used a 20% downpayment) as necessary to "break even". The math changes rather significantly without that obvious 55,000$ mistake.
It's not for everyone, but if you're in a city with good fundamentals for employability prospects and a reasonable purchase price to rent ratio, I think it's poor to steer someone away from buying right now. Just buy something modest (like what you would rent) and it will be cheaper than rent fairly quickly... if it isn't from the start. And it's important to do so while employed full time with a regular salary so you can qualify for conforming loans and take advantage of the frankly ridiculously cheap mortgages right now.
So adter reading numerous posts. The answers are few and depressing. The realization that the Great Recession will likely become Depression II. Companies are about profits not loyalty. And the truth is a young single person, especially a non-social introvert can acquire more current and desirable skills than an older programmer saddled with life obligations.
Granted there are a few twits on here that point to & blame having children, wives and what not. They provide a third option. They offer good justification for shooting their dub @ss and getting free room and board for life.
Age discrimination will hurt you. Your increasing wage needs will hurt you. But if you remain top of your game and up to date on new technology you'll remain employable.
Life takes interesting turns, but the most interest is when you're off the beaten path.
The truth is that no one knows how you are going to stay employable!
We have no idea about the challenges you are facing now and will face in the future. We don't even know what lies before us in the future. The best chance you have is to make sure your lifestyle is sustainable. Make sure you get out of debt (if any) and are physically and mentally healthy. Be kind and considerate to others (even if they do no deserve it). Reduce your attachments to material things. Things do not make you happy anyway. If you are not happy with the work you are doing now, find something that interests you and gives your life purpose (life is too short).
Good luck!
Ever consider dropping out? That's my plan for when all of this shit comes crumbling down. I know having kids must make the decision more difficult, but the whole shitty mess of the American economy is headed off a cliff.
If you *like* programming and developing, you are already in a great spot. Programmers are rain makers, as golden as engineers. You CREATE stuff. Start looking for ways to do more of it or get current with some of the mainstream languages if you're stuck in something like Cobol or MUMPs.
If your skills are sharp and you can drop into any environment and start coding, then you will always have a safety net with contracting. You might have to travel or take it on the chin with healthcare but you won't starve.
There are millions of apps that need to be written for tablets and iWhatevers. Start coding!
For those telling you to go into management or PM, you really need to think hard about that first. I went from doing Network engineering and *nix administration and getting consistent "always exceeds" to middle management hell for 10 years. I made more money but by the end of it I was begging to take a $30k cut to be an admin again.
If you're a programmer and you love being a programmer, be an excellent programmer and you will do fine.
If you feel that that you don't have a future in the company, that means you will need to seriously need to look for an other place to work.
My last job, I asked my boss for my 6 month bonus, he gave me some lame excuse on why I don't get a bonus anymore... So 4 weeks later I put in a 3 week notice. Because I got an other job, that was going to pay me more.
I had made the mistake before of just hanging in there, hopping for the best, I gut burned from it. So while I am hired, I work hard, be a team player, try to be the model employee... However I will follow my gut, if I feel something is wrong in the company and my job is at risk, I will go and find a new job before it becomes an issue.
1. Should I stay technical, and be ready to work as consultant/contractor? How does medical insurance work in that case?
As a consultant you can work for a consulting firm who may offer medical insurance, or if you work private, you charge rates that will cover the cost of private health insurance. There is a reason why Consulting rates are $200 an hour. Because the person needs to pay for all their expenses in life, that would normally be covered by companies benefits, combined with the fact that they may not be working 40 hours a week consistently.
2. Should I capitalize on the domain knowledge, and move onto business/managerial side?
Management isn't any safer then being a tech. However having more diverse skills and experience tends to help.
3. Will the MBA degree or alternate career help?
Will the MBA help... Yes it will, for cases where the job requires a particular level of education. I have an MBA and I am currently working in a position that requires a Masters Degree. the MBA is a Masters Degree so I qualify for the position. I am not in management, however I am the team lead.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
It maybe speaking about job security but that's not what the people clicking on the tag are expecting.
If team Obama win, you may be better of without a job than with one. You won't need to worry about medical, other people will pay for that. You'll be able to buy a house with no money down or income statements. Since you have kids, most of your food will be free.
"5. Don't price yourself out of a job; a senior dev with twenty years experience is worth about as much as one with ten."
That is only true for companies who are clueless. 20 years of development experience is clearly better than 10 years. Exceptions apply, but on average, that is true. After 10 years of development experience, you are just out of the worst practices you developed right after college/uni. After 20 years you have done so many good and bad things that you will instinctively not do many things the 10year guy still does.
Don't Vote GOP if you want the Affordable Care Act to stay in place.
So at least you don't have find work that will give you a medical plan.
I think your link misses an import detail -- you have to live SOMEWHERE.
My mortgage is about the same as rent would be on a similar (modest) home, and the property taxes are only $150 a month. I'm not sure saving the $150 a month makes it worth giving somebody else the rent money -- after all, I get to keep most of it even if it's not earning interest.
And if I "rent" my home from the bank for another 25 years or so, I get to keep it. I figure that's a fair trade for springing for the upkeep.
Now, if you're talking about a $500,000 McMansion not being a good investment -- well, duh.
Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
I'm 40 as well. My last job in IT was in 2006. I saw what was coming (the shit you describe) and just threw in the towel back then. Never looked back. My wife and I saved everything we could and managed to buy a small farm in rural New Zealand. You'll only experience pain if you fight it.
Why fight it?
Let some other imbecile show up to your shit job.
Sounds like she's freeloaded long enough (unless of course, she was home raising kids, that is a job). But if you're 40 or so, guessing she's about that age too, that means if there are kids, they don't need that 24/7 supervision at their age.
Have her go get a job too, and start SAVING money....save, save, save and....save.
Live below your means.
Then, start looking what to do for you...try for mgmt, maybe try keeping up with your skills. Get into govt contracting...long term jobs there with good pay, you just have to be able to pass a security check.
But seriously.....you should be saving all the money you can, and unless your wife is disabled....get her out into the workforce now....
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
40 years old and not sure what to do?
Sounds like you've been following the same path over and over again.
How many years of experience do you really have? Do you have 15 years experience in the industry? or 1 year's of experience 15 times?
How is your network? Not the people you work with, and not the people you used to work with, but people outside that circle? Are you like most IT folks, and dealing with people who are essentially clones of you? Everyone's great, everyone can code, everyone can be just like everyone else.
If you have to ask if you've got stability, then the answer is no.
Reach out to groups out there. real networking happens before the event and afterwards. go to the party early, stay late. It is work. don't let it fool you. This takes effort. And in 5 years you will be able to see a real safety net around you. Folks who understand your talent and can offer you a contract or employment if you let them know you're available.
But given the question asked, the answer is no, not now. You don't have the right connections, you haven't put in the time to establish the relationships.
In some parts of the world, these relationships get formed in grade school, during the sandbox years. Other times it's on the sports fields during high school. That's where we were supposed to learn how to network, express empathy. No one wants to deal with a parasite, someone who is always asking "what's in it for me?" After a while, you establish a reputation, at 40 years old, you've got one.
If the rep is good, that's great. if it is not, then you'll have to do something. I suggest something different, because doing the same thing you've been doing will keep you where you are.
Having a tight close-knit core group of people you're with day after day, week after week, will be very comfortable. But that network is limited. If you're lucky, you'll know a super-networker, someone who knows "everybody". figure out how that person did it. why does everyone know him/her? why does that person maintain relationships for such a long period of time?
I read a lot of technical answers to this question. but only a few that showed or understood a larger issue. Right now, employable/employed are different words. People hire people they like, people they know. If no one knows you, then you're just a piece of paper, and just as useful as every other resume.
You're asking the right question. But the fact you're asking now means you're not prepared today. maybe in 5 years, but not today.
Seastead this.
I'm 49 and still enjoying being a software engineer. Was working for a large financial company a year ago. Finance companies are not my favorite companies but the project was interesting as hell so I jumped from Yahoo to there. Once it was done I moved on. How to do that? You need to do well on the interviews so whatever you know you better brush up to know very well. Your current employer stopped asking details about things a long time ago. Your new one though will. If you are doing Java then reread all about Java's mysteries. Every software interview goes over data structures and algorithms. Take the "Design and Analysis of Algorithms I" through coursera (https://www.coursera.org/algo). It's challenging, get you back into answering questions about algorithms and it's free (as in they haven't figured out how to sell your personal info yet). After 15 years of Java I jumped to iOS development on iPhone/iPad. Get an app out there. If you don't make a million you still have skills that are in demand. I'm forced to do Android some times but the Java background helps there. Stay technical. For every 1 management job there are 10 technical jobs. You do the math concerning your odds of staying employed. I've never been a consultant/contractor. Maybe I'll do it later when I don't want to work full time. I've seen people use their domain knowledge to stay employed but it's an iffy situation. If that domain goes down you've got nothing to fall back on. If you really love it stay in it. I've been a mechanical engineer in a past life and if you aren't working as a mechanical engineer the mechanical engineers themselves will just treat you like any other developer. You'll have a better advantage explaining to other developers what the mechanical engineers are saying. Unless you go to a top 10 school MBAs are close to worthless. Do take finance courses. $1 made on investment is $1 you don't have to make working at a company. You should already be investing a little here and there even if it's just in your 401(k). Don't worry about the young guys. I keep quiet and by the time they figure out I know a lot more through experience than they do it's too late for them. If you see junk that they do just let them clean it up. These aren't your kids you are picking up after.
If you do a really good job, maybe your program will become self-aware, and you can sell it to the government, or use it to defeat Superman or something.
The best thing to do is to move towards software project management. Get a PMP. Show that you can be the translator between business stakeholders to get more junior developers to deliver working products on time that meet business requirements.
Start networking a great deal. Companies will come and go, but your contacts who believe in you will always be moving around.
My wife, a product manager, just brought in two development managers she knew from past jobs for a new project, and they were both over 40.
I am looking at exactly this option. HTe tech knowledge we have gained as Software Engineers is invaluable. School shave no idea how to really educate kids about the use of technology.
Hey, I just turned 40 and I'm a Senior Dev at Big Bank too. I'm not at all worried about the future because for the last 5 years I've been a contractor, free to charge as much as I want and move where the money is. Working for yourself means not giving a $#!% about office politics.
To answer your questions:
1: As a contractor (in America) you can buy your own medical. It's about the same cost. Talk to a medical broker. They will do all the work for you.
2: Do what you like, if you haven't thought about managerial until now, you're not likely to "get it" or or be good at it.
3: Knowledge is Power. But the acquisition of a degree can also be a waste of time if you are expecting it to advance your career on it's own. An MBA is great training for being your own boss though.
4: Stop paying rent. Now is a great market to pick up something.
Read The 4-Hour Workweek by Tim Ferriss. You may not end up wanting to do everything he suggests, but at least it will help you break that mindset where you think working for other people is the only option in life.
Space game using normal deck of cards: http://BattleCards.org
And you solve religious terrorism by raising standards of living. Except all the 9/11 attackers came from middle class backgrounds.
The point being, poverty isn't the driver of the problems people like to say poverty drives. This is a nice, intellectually dishonest and shallow way for you to dismiss the problem in your mind. Because the problem is really ideology, specifically religious teachings on reproduction.
The future of the world is the Philippines: the Catholic Hierarchy and their insane teachings on reproduction have a stranglehold on that country, which leads to massive poverty and suffering, and yet no one can get sane teachings on reproduction in that country:
http://asiasentinel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4657&Itemid=189
http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/philippines-constitutional-framer-more-people-more-glory-to-god/
You say: "why is the Philippines the future of the world?" Because the guy or gal who is ecologically aware and understands he or she should have less kids breed themselves right out of the world, and leave it to the families having 12 kids and believing in ideological memes that says lots of kids is ordained by god, or whatever belief that overwhems common sense on the issue.
There are middle class families with 8 kids in the USA: think the Orthodox Jews or the Mormons or Southern Baptists. Economic betterment doesn't solve the problem of having lots of kids.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/19_Kids_and_Counting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiverfull
I am a strict believer in freedom. Freedom of speech, freedom of movement, freedom of religion.
But my mind encounters problems like overpopulation, and I have a problem: freedom simply results in a runaway reproduction train, because it's really not about choice, it's about a simple biological imperative combined with bountiful resources and empowered by ideological memes that reproduce right along with the kids. Evolution in action simply means more and more of a biological creature until it is stopped. It does not stop itself. This is our problem: the ideologies of the world that reduce humanity to a fungal growth, which, when resources are so scarce and education is not affordable, we basically will be.
So, I have come to the regretful conclusion that China, so wrong on so many other freedoms, has it right on population: you need to clamp down on these "vaginas are a clown car" belief systems. I don't like this thought of mine, to embrace such authoritarian control system ONLY in regards to reproduction, but I simply see no other way.
Please, someone tell me there is another way, turning to Chinese authoritarianism as a the best model in anything creeps me out.
The problem is a serious one. It does not go away on its own. People who choose to have less kids go away, and leave the earth to the vagina=clown car religions.
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Seriously, it would require you moving to Washington DC but I LOVE it here. I get several job offers a week and I'm very happy doing federal government contracting. We're surprisingly cutting edge in some agencies, I make six figures and I have more opportunity. I have no desire to do project management, etc etc. I just like to develop.
These Dave Ramsey nutcases come up on every thread on websites that talk about finances. I think he is some religious nutjob financial guy.
If you're 40 and have worked in the industry for a while, you'll no doubt have seen all the various hiring and firing periods that Finance IT has gone through. Since you're still here, you're good at sailing through those periods. It's really common for people to think they're the ones going to be fired any moment, usually they are underestimating their value to the company. Statistically though, it's probably not going to be you. Try to be a bit more optimistic about your situation and your worth. There's probably a lot of knowledge in your head. Guys that have been in the industry for a long time get a lot of respect from the business and you can probably teach the junior traders a thing or too.
One final thought; this might be the worst downturn our particular industry has seen but it will get better eventually. Hang in there for now and you'll be in a great position when things start improving. Although others will disagree with me, now is the time for major life changes which may or may not work out. Those decisions are for people that actually lose their jobs.
Seriously this is good advice. Being able to get a TS/SCI is a meal ticket. It eliminates all competition from outsourcing, offshoring and non-citizens.
Plus the wage scale is better.
Since you don't own a house, moving is easier too.
The work is interesting, highly mathematical and isn't likely to be downsized much if at all in the upcoming DOD downsizing if the wars wind down.
Resumes tell an employer that you know a few things, but really taking a little coding test doesn't say much in an interview. Take some project work related to the job that you're applying for with you so that you can demonstrate the value you will bring to the table. I work for a large software company and being able to talk over a cool project and how the same ideas can be applied here is much more valuable since the conversation can become very rich. Focus also on how you can elevate other developers by establishing coding guidelines, protocol, performance evaluation....creating supportable, durable, well-written code. Programming is like learning regular languages...there are some that speak it fluently at a high-level and others that speak it marginally at a very low-level (slang, etc.); it comes down to maintaining high quality communication...everyone speaking the same level of a language. I also agree with the project management comments posted here: most projects fail not because of bad programmers, they fail because of poor PM work.
to eat? retire?
Maybe leave virtual world and try creating wealth; run a business, make stuff, go into farming.
Then who cares about the mess the financial system is in. You will have something to trade.
This is likely the only insightful post here. It is very true that there are two types of companies: those that see the what you create as an asset, and those who see the what you create as an overhead. Be in the former, not the latter if possible.
Do you want to stay technical?
Then you need to keep up your skills and always be learning new stuff. I started 25 years ago with C, Pascal, Fortran, Basic, various assembly and a smattering of other stuff. Transitioned to C++, Java, and a bunch of other new then but now obsolete tech. Now currently working mostly in Python and Javascript and still some C and C++. Being involved in open source projects can help the resume, but everything you learn helps the interview process as well as helps you learn what interests you.
Want to transition to less technical? Then an MBA and some other management (people and project) classes can help. Might need to be an MBA from a "real" school to do you any good. A promotion or even lateral move within the same company to get management experience will likely be easier than ending a job as technical and finding a new job as management.
Explore options for doing stuff on the side and other ways to supplement and possibly replace your current income. Remember every advisor will tell you to diversify your investments. How come they don't tell you to diversify your income?
Networking. Most jobs come thru contacts or contacts or contacts. LinkedIn might help. There are others.
If you do end up on your own in the U.S., COBRA will keep your health insurance going for a time, but $$$$. My last COBRA quote was $2100 per month for my family. I ended up getting a personal policy with similar coverage for under $400 per month. Current job pays coverage for me, buying additional coverage for the rest of the family is about the same price as buying it on my own for similar coverage.
The most likely outcome of a venture into entrepreneurship, is stress, financial strain, and business failure. It has ever been thus, in the US or anywhere. It's not for everyone, and for someone craving stability, like the OP, it's downright suicidal.
I've said this before, and I'll say it again: Don't look at "working for the man" as "the man" taking a cut of your hard-earned labor. Look at it as "the man" doing the sort of stuff you don't want to do and/or have no aptitude for a pittance over cost. I get to do a job I enjoy and am good at (low level network diagnostics), "the man" takes care of sales, marketing, legal, HR, product design, business planning, international compliance, manufacturing, management, etc. And they do this for a puny 8% over cost (a.k.a. my company's profit margin.) If I strike out on my own, I'm rather unlikely to be able to hire somebody to do those things for me for such a low price, and I know I'd suck at many/most of them if I were to take on those responsibilities myself.
If you have the stomach for the risk, the right skills, and a LOT of luck, entrepreneurship may be personally and financially rewarding. But it's certainly not a panacea for a stagnating career.
It's definitely not for everyone, but with an extensive technical knowledge and experience you could be very well employable till your 70's in a patent attorney firm as a paralegal technical expert. From my experience they see age and longer experience as a big advantage.
If you just can find-the-fun; the skills will blossom almost with you noticing it.
I'm about your age and recently had 3 job offers to decide from. I think what made me marketable was all the fun development projects I work on outside of work.
Years ago it was text-to-speach apps, new readers, and personal search tools that I enjoyed working on. Today I'm having fun building software for home-security (facial recognition and object recognition libraries are fast maturing) and helping my neighbors set up their own home-security systems based on this stuff (for free of course).
There's so much cool stuff in OSS to learn about; you are almost crazy not to be into this stuff.
I learned a ton about MySQL when I built my first mythTV DVR; and would never want to go back to watching TV any other way.
My Rss reading project taught me a ton about XML and XML-Schema; plus it cut down on the amount of surfing I do.
For my next home project I'm probably going to build some tools for my son's MineCraft worlds.
And I can't wait to start playing with the android SDK a bit more so I port some of my favorite projects over to my tablet.
Rob Enderle's excellent new book: Everything I needed to know about Computer Science I learned in Marketing School
IT has been a bust for careers, compared to the promise of the 90s. We may even be forced into ludditism by coming solar storms in the next few years.
LOLWUT? coming solar storms? lol.
This is NOT a mundane detail Michael!
I haven't seen anyone directly answer your question on "should I get an MBA" yet. This will be variable depending on whether you have good tuition reimbursement policies at your job. (I get 100% tuition reimbursement and don't work in the financial industry; my neighbor, who works for a major financial institution, would love to get an MBA but would have to pony up most of the tuition himself).
A few people have suggested project management, and with your experience you might find that a good fit. If you are a good PM, it's a path that gives you lots of options.
In your shoes, I'd be very tempted to start by getting the PMP certification. It's the industry standard, everyone knows it, and if you are PMP certified you can go anywhere in the world and they know what it means & respect it. The key advantage for you is it's a lot quicker to get PMP certified (assuming you've got some project management experience under your belt), and will be much cheaper than an MBA (again, this'll be influenced by the tuition reimbursement policy at your company). My MBA cost ~ $45,000 in tuition. A PMP boot camp class (one week, and several of the people who run these boot camps have offers that guarantee you pass your PMP exam or you get a refund/get to take the class again for free) will cost around $2,000 to $3,000. (This is East Coast USA, so prices may vary a bit, but I went to a fairly respected business school for that $45K, and the PMP prep classes I've seen are all in that price range whether they be in New York, Philadelphia, or Atlanta)..
Then go for the MBA. That'll take longer (typically two years doing two night classes a week), but it's going to be a big asset. In the financial industry, having someone who knows the technical side and can talk the business side (and yes, you'll get that from an MBA, learning the jargon, understanding about accounting, GAPP, supply chain management, risk management, etc) is much more valuable.
With a PMP and MBA, plus years of development experience, you now have loads of options. Developer, project manager, business analyst, etc. Are you guaranteed to get a much higher salary? No. Is this a path that could significantly help your employment prospects (assuming you're reasonably competent and motivated)? I'd say so.
How sad is it that his main concern isn't a college fund, food, or shelter, but medical care? He must keep working until he is 65 because he risks ruin if someone in his family gets sick. Even stranger is that not being able to afford medical care is no excuse to not get it, so if he failed to provide it to his kids he would be imprisoned. The mind boggles... Maybe he should move a few miles north to Canada where he can retire whenever he is willing to be done with a fancy lifestyle.
If you cannot find guidance from the great Caddyshack, whereof will you find it?
Illcar,
I am 42. Stayed technical, became a consultant 10 years ago. Over the last 20 years since I graduated from university, I have been a developer, architect, technical team lead, project manager and director. I came back to coding, because that's what I enjoy best, and because in I.T. Projects, there are always far more openings for developers than for architects or managers.
I do not worry that I will get kicked out of the profession for being too old when I reach 50. First of all, there are not enough younger programmers coming out of universities to replace us, and also the profession has been steadily growing older over the last decade. Yes, I lost a few contracts to development teams in India, but not all projects can be sent off shore.
Yes, as a consultant, there is always the possibility that I lose my contract and that I have to find another one. But as a consultant I make far more money than a full-time employee, so even if I don't work three or four months per year (never happened) I would still come out better than with a salary.
Also, let's say I am three months without a job before I find another contract, well I don't really lose 3 months salary. I would have lost 50% of it to income tax, plus work related expenses such as commuting. SO three months off is more like one and a half month pay loss.
As for office politics, I learned to not let it affect me. My responsibility as a consultant is to provide advice to my client, and then I keep a copy of the email. Sometimes a manager or architect will never believe their solution sucks until the team has spent six months on it and it crashes and burns in front of their eyes. As for myself, I will have spent six months working on a soon to be dead solution, but the only way for me to keep my sanity is to remind myself that I am paid by the hour, so like sex, the longer the better.
As for not having a house right now, this might just be a blessing for you. It means you are not shackled to high mortgage payments. It probably means that you could more easily move to another part of the country to get a job if you ever need to.
Being strategic about your next career move is wise. Worrying about all the bad things that may happen in the future is not going to help you, so you might just as well stop worrying and enjoy life.
Sincerely,
Pascal
Who is this "society", exactly, and why do you believe that you have some sort of obligation to him/her/it?
Where did this myth come from? As a parent of young children, I found that for the most part, kids are not expensive. There's a marginal increase in food / medical / clothing costs, and saving a bit for college, but it's not bad; most of the big expenses (housing, bills, saving for retirement) stay the same.
The only thing expensive about having kids is day care / preschool, which is pricey. But if one parent doesn't work, then they can take care of the kids. If both parents work, then it's a two-income household, and most should be able to bear that cost. Single parents are truly screwed here.
-- 77IM
Student: Is it true that the foundation of the universe is paradox?
Master: Well, yes and no.
Your post was really vague. How do I stay current? You didn't tell us what kind of development you have done. There is a big difference in staying current if you do java development vs. old mainframe programming. The mainframe stuff will probably be less transferable, so you will have to go out and do development on the side.
I would recommend, going to the job boards and seeing what development skills are in demand. It will mostly be buzzwords, but you can get an idea from there. I would pick 1-2 specializations in there and learn it. Don't do everything. You will need to do development in your own time. Yeah it sucks with a family, but what are you going to do? I would also try to get put on projects where you currently work that have newer technologies.
if you are stuck doing old legacy work, I would get started right away. I would do development on my own and then take that with me to interviews. Bring the laptop. Show that you have been doing legacy work on the job, but here is what I taught myself, so I have 20 years of development experience, plus I am current. Let me show you what I can do.
I don't understand how developers can post 'how do I stay current' posts. This is so vague. You are in the profession. You should know that current varies depending on what you do. The way to stay more current is always teach yourself, do it in your own time, try to get moved on to more current projects and/or get the hell out of there.
I work in computational biology at a large research laboratory located in a rural area in Maine. We are the only game in town, and the people we hire are often more senior developers that either want to move to a small town on the coast, or were originally from the state and left to pursue their career. I can only think of one recent hire straight out of college, and in that case the person grew up in the town with our flagship state university and chose to go to school out of state. If you want to avoid managerial work and focus on software engineering, think about leaving the financial industry and look towards other domains -- some of your knowledge will translate. We basically have two types of developers -- those writing research/analysis software and those writing large enterprise systems (like laboratory information management systems).
Can you work for yourself?
If you can quit relying on others for your prosperity, you can dump this whole useless line of worry.
This is a great idea if you like working 70 hours a week for little pay and no benefits, combined with new taxes and penalties from the likes of Obama. The cost of my services went up 10% thanks to an Obamacare excise tax. "Well, pass it on to the customers." I do, but raising prices 10% in a struggling economy doesn't exactly help sales. Soon I'll face a penalty for not being able to afford health insurance too. "But if you can't afford it, there will be assistance for you to be able to." Orly? "[T]he state might not be required to expand coverage to ... adults making up to 133% of federal poverty limit, which is $14,900 for a single person."
$14,900 * 1.33 = $19817. So if I make $20k/year, I'm rich and should be able to afford my own health insurance, else get penalized. How many people do you know making $20k/year can afford living expenses (not to mention paying off debt) AND health insurance? I'm a single white male, so I don't qualify for government assistance anyway. Soon I'll be penalized for it!
Yay for democracy! Fuck small business!
It doesn't look like you read the entire article. $22k is the non adjusted raw sale profit. That's also $22k over 10 years, which may or may not be a good return depending on how you're considering how much is spent. If my math is right, if you spend $1400 per month instead of $1600 (break even point), you'd save $160 a month and make more money that purchasing that house using those calculations. It does not factor in taxes, insurance, and general house stuff - which I'd guess is going to be more than the left over profit, but that depends on a lot of factors.
Personally I reached the same conclusion as the article, but I also pay such cheap rent for my apartment I'd really have to be crazy to buy a house. If houses where I live weren't overpriced, and my rent were high that would be different. The point of the article wasn't "buying a house is bad", it's that you really need to look at the many factors involved to make a fair comparison. Even if you don't "make a profit", maybe you enjoy living in a house that much more to make it worth it. It seems to be a common mentality that you MUST buy a house because that's what Americans do and you OWN it, but I think the modern real estate market really preys on that mode of thinking. If you don't have a family (especially if you're single), renting may be the better choice.
Didn't they do this in a movie once?
Audit CAFR documents. There's a promising career.
You are a cockroach on society. Enabling the banks to use HFT to steal billions of dollars.
Businesses have already moved about as far towards "agile" as they could move, and many have over-extended their staff, just to hang on despite the poor economy.
What I've seen in I.T. (with my own job, with the jobs my wife has taken in I.T., and with jobs my friends have in I.T.) is a situation where employers are uncertain what to do next. They need more workers, but they lack confidence that their business can remain viable if the economy takes another big stumble.
Many are trying to hire contractors so they don't have to commit right now to taking on more workers full-time. But they're struggling because the contractors want the benefits and security of a real, full-time job as an employee. So they have a revolving door of contractors who only stay until they find the next contract job that pays a little better or has better hours or working conditions.
While you'll still find cases where there's a lot of largely useless "overhead" of middle managers that don't contribute much -- my experience is that these tend to be the "lifers" who have been entrenched in those positions from back when the economy was much better than it is today. They may know "all the right people" to hang onto those jobs, or perhaps they have some sort of sweet arrangement where it will cost the company a big severance package to eliminate then. In larger companies, sometimes a big group of these people stick together and do everything in their power to "scratch each others' backs" so the new hires get blamed for their inefficiencies. Whatever the case -- just because you see people in those positions, earning that type of paycheck, doesn't mean those jobs will exist for YOU as a new hire, when someone vacates one of them.
Basically, we're on a track where everyone in a company is valuable.... Even if that means wearing multiple hats and doing work you never imagined was part of your job description. But that said, there's still room for "project managers". They just might find themselves asked to do BOTH management and hands-on work at the same time, these days.
I expect when I turn 40 my most useful role will be 'soylent green'. 5 years to go! woohoo!
The best you can do is stop reading internet comments right now. It's not so strange how this story attracts comments--people just love to vent. But you can't eat your butthurt ego. Hug your dog. Go to church. Enjoy the sun. Don't read any more comments.
What I've seen at the larger companies is a need for:
1) Senior level programmers. 15+ years experience in the industry.
2) Breadth of experience. i.e. platforms, OS, frameworks in order to be able to choose the correct one for their projects
3) Depth of experience. i.e. a Tek someone who knows the systems aspect and innards of the frameworks/OSs/etc..
4) Business Analyst - Someone who can assess what is happening in a business and propose new ideas, methods, strategies to take. Someone who can transform a paper napkin idea into the Business' reality based on how the business conducts its business.
5) Project Leader - someone who is senior and can guide developers, get out ahead of the project and research a path to hand off to the team. Talk manager-speak and dev-speak. Keep a project on schedule. Not the manager's unreasonable schedule, but the actual schedule. Have the ability to break down a project into smaller and smaller pieces so one can focus his team's efforts. By doing this, one is constantly moving the project forward.
6) Project Manager - someone who can assess the team's abilities, apply those abilities to the development timeline and come up with a realistic time estimate.
7) Troubleshooter - Many devs "give up" and the more senior devs have to solve things. Well, become the "no one else left but me" guy. If you can't solve the problem then no one can. Be a bulldog and never give up on a problem, no matter how complex, how long it takes.
If you find yourself lacking in any area(s) mentioned, then stop lacking in them and apply yourself. It sounds like you haven't kept your skills current. The current panacea is Java with J2EE and DotNet.
"But how do I get experience?" - Donate your time to a non-profit to solve their issues. Whatever they may be. No limits. Go in to their site once a week on Saturday to reload OS, answer their questions, write programs for them. Write the programs in the languages you are weak at. Usually a non-profit's needs are basic but you can be doing wonders for them. A private school is another good avenue to apply yourself.
In any of these cases, you can be BA, PM, and Project Leader all in one. If they have even limited IT "staff" then you ask to direct their efforts. If they have IT "volunteers" then ask to eventually lead them. That's how you can get some BA, PM and management experience. Leading volunteers is harder than at work because any of the volunteers can leave just because you wore a pink shirt or something. Directors who dismiss this experience are ignorant and stupid.
Safari Library - $500/yr (roughly) - will give you access to all the books you need on the subjects previously mentioned. WELL worth the cost.
I doubt you'll see this message but Good luck to you,
Cheers,
-T-
Pick yourself up, get more skills, establish relationships, and keep your eyes open for other opportunities. When one presents itself, take it. I'm in my 40's too. We will never see medicare or social security because they will be bankrupt. You have about 40-60 more years in your career (depending on how long you live). Settle in, get yourself and your family prepared, it's going to be a bumpy ride. Remember, preparedness, skills, skills, skills, hard work, friendships, connections, not being too proud to take any job.
I'm pushing 50 myself. There's no way Medicare will exist in 15 years, not in it's current state, the numbers just don't add up. Assuming that you'll have medicare OR social security to fall back on is folly. At your age, you'll never get back the value of the cost of an education for a masters degree unless you've got the cash sitting around for it. For Profit colleges are making a bundle, prices are skyrocketing as everyone is jumping into advanced degrees hoping for the nirvana of employment. False road trip. The only place that leads is huge debt. That's the next economic bubble is student loan debt. It's going to be a bad one when it blows. Corporate Banking is a doomed animal. Move out while you still can. There's really only 3 ways to have any cashola at retirement time: 1) Get a govie job. My dads a retired Fed who's been retired for almost 25 years. A major percentage of his health care is still paid by Uncle Sam, as is his $60K annual retirement pay with cost of living adjustment. I wish I would have went this route. 2) Health Care job. Get a job in IT in the health care field. It's the one bright spot. Everyone needs health care and the government has mandated EMR (electronic medical records) - few places have implemented completely leaving lots of room for workers. 3) Work for yourself. This is still America. Shed your corporate masters and spread your wings. Lots of luck.
Jump ship, Screw the banks, get a job with health care IT.
NY finance cooked the American Economy. It is 0% you, and 100% a highly damaged economy. When German banksters fucked up the German financial system, there was massive unemployment and a few years later the Nazi government got elected, because of all the middle class people could not find jobs. Don't blame yourself, blame the politicians who were bribed or incompetent to check the NY insanity.
>> Replace worry with planning and get a good nights sleep.
But little Mouse, you are not alone,
In proving foresight may be vain:
The best laid schemes of mice and men
Go often awry,
And leave us nothing but grief and pain,
For promised joy!
Well, I'm 38, and one of the things I did, after working in industry for 9 years, was to go back to school and get a PhD. I'll be starting as an assistant prof this autumn. However, YMMV on more education.
Have you considered cooking meth?
Exactly. I'm just starting my career and I have no f****** clue where it will lead me except at some point I'll just stop and teach/do something really useful. Give back.
I work in a large bank as well in the investment side of the house. I have seen countless people from IT take the CFA and never get past level 1. If they do, I have literally, only seen two people make it past level two. You are taking an exam with which most financial professionals struggle. I'm not saying it's impossible, it is actually quite reasonable. However, you will need a great deal of intuition about accounting and advanced finance concepts as well as AN ACTUAL INTEREST to get through the exam. If these topics make your eyes glaze over, forget it. Also, the CFA is a huge commitment in terms of time. Theoretically, it can be done in 18 months. However, it takes most 3-4 years. The fail rates are enormous and each exam has minimum recommended study times in the hundreds of hours.
The CFA is a bit like a marathon on your knees. Nothing about it is particularly difficult, but it takes forever and is designed to discourage and weed out anyone who doesn't read 10-Ks for entertainment.
The biggest mistake I see the IT folk make is the belief that the CFA magically makes them a finance professional. Please think about who would hire you. You don't fit in the typical finance box. The bank could pick up a b-school graduate who knows about as much as you would in investment management, if not more, and pay them less, all while demanding they sleep under their desks for no additional pay.
Your strong technical background could make quant or risk management positions a viable option, but for these jobs you are under-qualified and would need some letters (CFA, FRM Etc) after your name or require additional schooling (MFE programs). While you would do less grunt work in these jobs and need less time to pay your dues, you would not be exempt from it.
The main issue is this: You are tired of doing grunt work and others are recommending trying a more finance-oriented role in the bank. While not a bad idea, most of these jobs at mid to advanced career are based on experience (you have very little direct experience). This would require you to jump back down the totem pole to a lot of grunt work in finance. Furthermore, if you feel that finance is in some structural downturn, doubling your bet on finance may be a bad idea.
The key to all careers is knowing what skills and services are valuable and then providing those. Start by looking inward. Take an inventory of your skills. Just because you haven't used your skills professionally doesn't mean you can't. Someone with kids can usually manage a team. At least they're used to getting some kind of results from people who don't listen.
Once you know what you have to offer, you can start looking for a match. Generally there are two ways to go: the guru path or the management path. Gurus use their specialized knowledge to benefit an employer. Managers use their experience to guide team members. Which appeals to you more? Whichever it is, invest more in that direction and start marketing/promoting yourself. Either internally at your current employer or externally at a new job.
Wait, I thought you were supposed to buy a Ferrari and drive it to the office...
It does not matter how irreplaceable you are to a company. It only matters how replaceable you appear to be to management.
Looks like you waited a little long to have kids; that doesn't make your proposition any easier.
Being a high-tech employee is like being a pole dancer: You can still do the moves but no one wants anything to do with an old pole dancer.
Good luck,
An Unemployed 51-Year Old Pole Dancer
As someone who 'made the mistake' of starting his family early, let me just say this (because everyone seems to think the opposite in today's culture): you waited too long to start a family and get on with your life.
You're 40 and on the way "up" in your social life. Your family is growing. Things are getting more complicated. Who in their right mind starts having kids at 40? You're "over the hill" and on your way down; your energy levels are lower than in your 20s and kids being up at night is going to murder you. You're already set in your ways and the strain of learning new things is more difficult now than when you were in your 20s (and you will be learning things as a parent - or you should be). My father was born when his parents were ~40, and he's got nothing good to say about the arrangement: his parents were genuinely old by the time he was in his teens, and he was mostly raised by his older sister. I never knew my grandparents.
Meanwhile, you're at a point in your career where you should be thinking of "settling down" for the long term. You're older and seen as one of the 'old guys', or at least the more seasoned, stable, and experienced people - or at least you should be by 40, in IT careers. Having a child at this point in your career is, IMO, foolish.
I don't mean to dig into you too hard here (by all means, have children) - we all make mistakes - but part of making those mistakes is learning how to live with them. I personally started my family at 20. That was a decade ago: we've had 3 children, we've been paying a reasonable mortgage on a house now for almost 3 years, and I am able to advance in my career. We're past the "hump", with our kids all out of diapers, talking, and generally approaching the "young adult" part of life. No, it's not going to get easier for us with teenagers, but compared to babies, it's not going to get harder, either. Time is freeing up to the point where my wife is able to consider her career options - going to school, starting a career.
I'm just putting the above out there for people who are thinking of 'waiting' to start a family. Sorry, there never will be a 'right time', as the OP indicates ('insecure' job, no house, tenuous income potential, etc.) You've just got to do it and make it work if you want it to happen at all. "It never gets easier."
Now, considering OP's questions:
1. Should I stay technical, and be ready to work as consultant/contractor?
Why not do both? From what I'm seeing, there is a big need for what might be termed "sales engineers". Good ones are indispensable in any technical discipline, but they require a good balance of management, technical, and sales experience or ability. From what I've seen, the good ones are typically technical people who cross over to the 'sales' side of things. They're knowledgable enough to keep the sales people in check, and the customers appreciate the hell out of you. You end up doing a lot of PM type work and coordinating with all people involved, becoming a pivotal point for project success.
How does medical insurance work in that case?
Generally, this is a "STFW" question, but I'll offer a little experience. Generally, it doesn't. It's not uncommon for contractors to not have health benefits unless they incorporate, but if you do, you go through a private health insurance company or one of those shared burden "timeshare" type healthcare systems. Rates are typically a bit higher but I'm not intimately familiar with them. I've no idea how ObamaCare is going to make things more difficult for people who do this, but my guess is "very" (because it's going to make things a lot more difficult for everyone).
The other option is to incorporate. If you incorporate (ie, a non-LLC, C-corp), you can get company health insurance. Typically pairing up with several other contractors to operate as your own corporation would be a good idea due to healthcare employee # requirements.
2. Should I c
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
I live in California, and basically have a kid and a wife that doesn't (actually can't) work. Because I've had enough income (and always had the last IT crash on my mind), I've pretty much paid everything in cash up front and have effectively no credit. Home buying with a mortgage is currently beyond my reach, even though I make a pretty good living. Not having health insurance isn't an option, because of the wife and kid, and it can be pricey because of the wife. BTW, if *your* stay at home wife isn't on board with consulting, its demands (she needs to be very self-sufficient and industrious), and the risks, you will need to stop now, and just find a way of enduring (going into management) until retirement age hits. Or get her on board. Or divorce. Because if you go through with consulting, and she isn't on board, it will end in divorce.
I've run my own business. Unless you have a product, don't do it. Service based IT consulting is a dicey business at best, and until I understood my market and how C-level people are motivated and think, I failed repeatedly until I learned the market well enough to succeed. Then I got out, because I realized that I didn't have my own assets and self-support aligned correctly. I'll be going back into it in a year or two at most. IF you do decide to go into consulting professionally, make sure you own a property you can live on that does not have a mortgage, car or credit payments, and NEVER EVER EVER borrow/mortgage or open a line of credit against that property- EVER.
Medical for the self-employed is also difficult to do, especially as I'm growing older. Ultimately, I will have to find a service plan that mixes some of the business back end (payroll for self, taking care of tax withholdings, etc) with the medical. There are companies that do this, but availability of their services varies state by state. Some will even help me prioritize expense spending for business related expenses like laptops, etc. Again, doing this without a product (to base selling services off of) or lots of business contacts that can say "yes" is a recipe for failure until those are developed.
With this in mind, here is my plan, and you may want to make use of it.
1. Buy at auction, refurbished, or used. The goal is to keep myself out of debt, and to ensure your costs are as low as possible for when consulting does come around again. My last car, next car, and my next property should come from auction/refurb/used, out of money I have put together in advance. Aggressive saving is the key to being successful at consulting, and saving to buy at auction is excellent practice. Multiple accounts for specific purchases, etc- do whatever it takes to save. Building credit is another term for "I am willing to be a slave to my debt load", and that should only be done with an equal amount of savings set aside to immediately pay any balance if hard financial times should hit, and only should be done if it builds something that adds positive cash flow (cars are not positive cash flow, and neither are properties these days).
2. Fix everything I buy at auction myself. I have to be self-sufficient, aside from those things that absolutely are a bad idea for me to do on my own. I can do my own light construction, plumbing, and residential electrical, because it isn't hard to learn and there is plenty of information out there on how to do it. Same goes for my vehicles. Double-plus good if the stay at home wife is even halfway motivated to become that self-sufficient (because, really, that is her fucking job if I bring home the only pay check). Drilling my own well or major brake work? I'll be paying for that, because of the cost of the equipment and the risk. A well, septic and off-grid power are really good for a primary residence, as they eliminate monthly expenses. Properly managed, they cost MUCH less than buying that service from a city or county. If I own my own property, this also means growing and canning our own food as a family. Again, self-sufficiency is t
Again, see the thing about "rest of the world isn't like the US". There's nothing forcing you to stay there (on original topic: my answer to the submitter would be to consider moving country before he gets too old)
Other than other countries' immigration policies, the language barrier, etc.
Where should one seek such life advice?
I'm sorry, you're 40, don't own a house, don't understand office politics, and don't understand how to get a job. You're a failure at life.
For me, moving to Europe was just a matter of having a company say "Yeah, we want to hire this guy"
But how do you get to that point without an interview in person?
I would like to see the actual data where these numbers come because to have a 15 year drop in the averages in 10 years... that's extraordinary.
Real life is overrated.
I was in a similar situation with a FinServ company. Typical crappy IT job, but I am passionate about new technologies, stayed up late and learned Mobile App development and Cloud based solutions. Got a Masters with company's continuing education benefits, and found myself a job in a cloud computing company that is growing like crazy. BTW, I also got a 25% raise. BTW, I also blogged, created my own website to showcase my projects, tweeted and LinkedIn pretty aggressively.
Moral: Your work is your resume. We are in an age where developers need to be able to make things, not just do maintenance and production support. Otherwise, a flashy resume and networking will only get you yet another Bank, FinServ, Insurance or something like that....not that there is anything wrong with it ;-)
O.K. Capt. Pedantic. careers ending in the 70s tended to last 20+, can you take it from there?
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
Well, it's been brought up here a few times.
Even if it's only a media story, someone should look into "scare" profiteering by offering lead lined computer cases. On the other hand...
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
Hey, try not to burn down any buildings between job interviews, huh?
And yet with slashdot's filter, your response (which is +1 simply because of your karma) STILL polutes the page.
The same logic applied to my case: I took a step and asked myself what I'd done for my employer, and how much I was getting out of it. It also wasn't a heck of a lot.
On a return-on-investment basis, a broke-ass new graduate with a 1-bedroom apartment and a $50K/year job is a fool to quit. And a billionaire would be a fool to keep working even if he's paid $1M/y; he could make $10M/y by sticking it in the bank at 1% interest.
I was somewhere in between. I walked. No regrets.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midlife_crisis
Casteism
Mmmm... yeah. ... If you could just go ahead and make sure you do that by Friday, that will be great. Mmmm, Ok?
The arch foe.
Almost 40, working as a developer for mortgage companies, with a growing family and living in an apartment.
We all know what happened to the mortgage industry and so my attempt at starting a software company evaporated with it.
Now some years later, I've just worked for various companies but haven't furthered my own projects. But, my income has steadily increased. My family has grown. Just in the last few months I was finally able to buy a home (thank you CHDAP).
I keep switching jobs not because I've wanted to but for other reasons (company downsizing or politics, company imploded, etc).
Right now, I'm beating off the job the offers and practically have to turn off my phone to get any work done because I get 15+ calls a day for job offers. And I'm not that great a programmer, either. There's just plenty of work apparently.
Sometimes I wonder how long this will last. Will my skills still be needed in 10 years? Will the robots take over by then? I don't know. I do know that I try to keep up with the latest technologies and keep my skills fresh. Will nobody want to hire a 50 year old? I don't know. Thus far, as far as I can tell, no job I've had even really knew how old I was when hiring me. I suppose I don't look my age.
It may sound silly or simplistic but really, just keep working. Work hard, be an honest worker, but don't kill yourself. Save some money. Spend time with your kids. I've had mostly telecommute jobs for the last 5 years so that helps with the family time. If you can start something on the side, do it. I plan on doing that, but it hasnt happened yet. Get an old car to restore so you have something non-computer to do.
You'll be fine.
-- Senior Software Engineer, Attorney appearance services, locallawyerapp.com.
Seriously, get into a whole body exercise regime like Tai Chi or a gentle form of yoga (I'm assuming you spend a lot of hours sitting). Then you won't need to worry about Medicare, which may not be around in the same form when you're ready to retire or qualify for it. Assume that the tech world and the financial world, are never going to have another "golden age" during your remaining "career years." Globalization has or is tearing down the mechanical and geographic barriers that have traditionally protected the relatively higher pay scales and job security traditionally enjoyed by American workers in fields such as finance and IS. That can't be reversed until someone breaks the Internet. You might look into learning auto repair, that is a job that can't be completely exported yet - until car manufacturers take the Mac/Apple approach to building cars. Hmmmm. Growing one's own food is wonderful and quite meditative.
In the 70s careers tended to last 20+ years, in the 80s this number dropped to 6 years, The 90s came and distinctions blurred between jobs, careers, hobbies and survival. Buddy, we're 10+ years into the new millennium. Figure out what you need to do and quit looking at standard models.
Can you work for yourself?
Is there something you can manufacture or service you can perform without needing an overseer?
Are members of your family old/strong enough to contribute to a family business?
If you can quit relying on others for your prosperity, you can dump this whole useless line of worry.
IT has been a bust for careers, compared to the promise of the 90s. We may even be forced into ludditism by coming solar storms in the next few years.
Find a need or demand and fill it. Think outside the box. Learn self sufficiency and quit mourning money you threw at the last "career", it's gone and tomorrows challenges may not be helped by it. Dammit, you're a geek, get flexible and quit thinking about the obvious, overcrowded, overrated, overused path to a paycheck. Find something that people could pay cash for, too. If they don't know you have it, they can't tax it.
If you really need a moment to think and a jumpstart, it may sound ridiculous on the face of it, but, join an MLM. Even if you aren't successful, you will have a low cost education in business,sales and people skills, self motivation and probably a cupboard full of vitamins. These ingredients, less the vitamins are vital to being self employed.
Good luck with your search, may you satisfy your dreams along with your wallet.
Keep the kids coming, that's how we achieve some immortality and offset the scumbags of the world, who are breeding too.
Don't spend your time worrying, it can't help and will hurt. Replace worry with planning and get a good nights sleep.
First some comforting advice. Vote for Obamacare. That way the USA, the last holdout for universal medical care will join the world, and if by badluck you need some medical treatment, you and your family will not go bankrupt.
With every opportunity you have, I would look to getting more courses under your belt, more knowledge and try to gain more skills, and do a lot of networking.
We in Canada can still work our 35 years in IT in one company. But you have to invest in yourself with skills that your employer can use. Be positive and if you follow some of the advice mentioned above, realize it is another lifestyle.
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
Was turning 40. Sorry--that's unforgivable.
BTW, 50 is when damnation sets in.
For me the question really comes down to this: what are you really passionate about? Does what you do each day still light your fire? Do you find fulfilment and challenge in your work? I'm 45 and got laid off six months ago (third time in 20 years in IT). It was a marvellous opportunity to sit back, take stock and think - do I really want to do this for another 20 years? It surprised me how simple the answer to this was. Although it has been a good career and the money has been pretty good, I know that forward options for me are becoming limited. I don't want to go into management; as an architect I'm not too far from the upper limit of the technical stream; I have zero interest in switching to allied fields (e.g. technical sales), and I'm pretty over having to relearn stuff every five years or so to stay employable. Most of all, I'm sick of doing work that makes no discernable difference to anyone's life... in a global sense it's pretty meaningless. So - I've tossed in the towel and am studying medicine instead. It didn't take too much thinking to realise that this is where my passions really lie... life's too short for regret, so I'm grasping the opportunity while I'm still young enough to get the study done and have time left to practise medicine. If your answers to my first questions point you to the areas you already work in, then great - figure out ways to make your career sustainable for another 20 years or so, and be prepared for compromises. If not, now is the time to grasp the nettle and make real changes, while you still have time for them to make a difference. But know what you are passionate about! This is what will power you.
There's an IT opening at the NTIA. Yes, there's actually an agency besides the FCC involved with spectrum.
http://www.usajobs.gov/JobSearch/Search/GetResults?OrganizationID=CM61&ApplicantEligibility=All
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/about
Find a job where you can dig yourself in, prune the bushes and keep things working without breaking your neck. Branch our and secretly start consulting. I use an SSH tunnel to port 443 and do tons of outside work at work. What I find is that in order to have the ability to move to where you want to be it helps to be in 2 places at once, or more. I gave this advice to a developer and he worked at a hotel chain doing programming and IT and worked at Oracle at the same time. Its easier to have more than one job if you have one main and then consult. But its possible to have two jobs. Be careful of background checks when getting the new job.
Any job which requires 40 hours a week will likely require 80. There is no end to how much blood work can draw from you. Draw the lines, and make sure every hour of your day is productive -
Most people have a lot of fake work. Most work is fake work. Having consulting work and wage work at the same time just makes you more efficient.
Double dip. Keep in mind most corporate masters do nothing but land grabs, politics and territory wars, nothing but Fake Work, so defend yourself by double dipping. Consulting keeps the skills relavent.
Legalize the constitution. Think for yourself question authority.
And with CHINDIA prowling, you need to sell first and build later.
Casteism
You can go to bed with Obama for all I care, you've obviously got the hots for him.
Unlike most hypochondriacs that make up the world, I don't need to see a doctor often enough to spend a fucking dime on medical care.
Besides the fact that there are several religions, including mine that don't turn our temple over to every pill pushing butcher that bought a degree and can't wait to start getting perks from pharma companies.
I prefer to invoke my freedom of religion, constitutionally guaranteed me in this country.
Yes I believe if you keep pouring money into an IT education, you may almost be able to sustain a career. Unless of course it is suddenly more cost effective to outsource your job or automate it with scripting. IT changes too quickly to be very profitable or stable, anywhere, anytime. Like grain harvest, the military, and second shift jobs, IT is a young single mans GAME. Not to say others don't , but that is the demographic that best benefits. Of course it's a lifestyle, but you likely won't be a young single man after 35 years.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
Dear flyneye
I did think like you, until I reached 55. Then I was a) either too expensive to be hired or b) supposedly not up to date with technology or c) too old for a pseudo career.
That is when I started my independent consulting and it was the era that as I was lucked in, had one contract every 8 months (ERP specialist). Well, there are 8 months of living from savings, 8 months of choosing car repairs or mortgage payments and 8 months of covering school fees for my teenagers.
What do you do if somewhere in-between, without group insurance, one of the family gets sick. Your response was that of a single person, no family, no parents or grandparents, and lots of belief in autonomy. Well, we all are busy being born and then busy t'il death. And sadly, during being busy, what goes around comes around, such as pregnancy, illness, a broken leg, a chronic medical condition, etc. The unpredictable is something else.
Well, I am grateful to live in Canada. I twice caught the infamous flesh eating bacteria disease. I was 12 hours away from amputation of my leg when the anti-biotics kicked in. 12 days in hospital, $24,000 in fees and $1,000 per day in medication, xrays, nurse care etc.
With our wonderful Canadian medicare system, (what Obamacare is wanting to give to 30 million American poor and to the rich is Universal Medicare) did was allow me to walk away with a $250.00 out of pocket amount for antibiotics that I continued at home after hospital release. Before you blow up with a response, look at longevity figures for different countries. It is an indication of the general health of a nation. Low numbers indicate that the poor are dying and unable to survive.
Private insurance in Canada would cost me over $1000 per person ((we are 5 and my daughter has MS) and private insurers can and do refuse to accept you as a client. They also place limits on payouts.
My government insurance is about $1000 annually for the family. And it is part of my income tax. So I am grateful to pay. And now that I am 70+, and do not have an income, I am still covered. Wow,
So here is another thing for you to shoot down. I pay $10/mo per person for drug insurance. Thats under 150/yr. I pay 20% of the prescription cost. When or if my 20% of the cost exceeds $1000.00, the balance is at even a bigger reduced charge (just the pharmacies dispensing fee). Universal medicare is to prevent health costs from bankrupting a family.
So, paying the government for health is not a worry for me or my kids. The costs are reasonable. Ask your immediate family what they would do if they cannot purchase health insurance.
flyneye, Please stop watching cnn, fox, abc and learn how the rest of the G7 world lives. Don't follow the corporate propaganda. Universal medicare is not communism.
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
Wrote a 1-pager on it: http://packetpushers.net/managing-your-job-versus-managing-your-career/
1. Leverage your industry knowledge and move to a company that's still in the financial industry, but doesn't handle other people's money. These companies (start-ups aside) are generally more stable now that we are 4 years beyond the home mortgage melt-down, and they have less risk. This, of course, means they offer less rewards (lower base salaries, lesser or no bonuses), but that's the trade-off for not worrying about getting laid-off
2. Management, but only if you want to embrace the accountability. I'll assume you are all too aware of the politics of accountability in the financial industry. Being a manager is willingly putting yourself in the political cross-hairs. It's going to be like that to a lesser degree in any industry, so if you can't take that sort of heat, stay out of the management kitchen.
3. Stay in programming if you love what you do and are at all good at it. It's much easier to get up and go to work everyday doing something you love, or even just like, than something you hate to do but think it's better because of the pay or benefits.
4. Look at small and mid-size companies. Ageism is much less of a factor in smaller companies. While being the jack-of-all-IT-trades has it's stress points, it also makes you somewhat indispensable to your employer, and is much easier to do in smaller IT shops.
5. Stay where you are and try to be the MVP. If you don't already know where the bodies are buried or what skeletons are in whose closet, you're not likely to find out now. So, you'll have to become valuable the old fashioned way: earning it. Find a skill set that is absolutely necessary to your companies bottom line, find out who on the business side cares about it, become and expert in the skill and the friend of those business folks. Now you have an advocate in a profit-center to go with your argument on the IT side for the company keeping you around. If you do good work and can make the effort to politically correctly for your environment to get acknowledgment for it (notice I did not say credit), then your work will *almost* speak for itself.
6. Pray.
Congratulations on your consulting business, that was well timed for a while.
Like I said, I have a religious aversion to doctors as do Christian Science and I believe the Adventists. We do our own medical care including birthing, setting bones, stitches. If we can't handle it, it is surely our time to go. That is just part of my faith. I sit here right now, not in any significant pain, from a molar I extracted with a pair of pliers , Tuesday. Not much swelling either.
Even if this condition did not exist and I did seek "professional" medical care, I do not believe putting a government designated to perform sundry maintenance jobs and regulate interstate commerce in charge of something best left to an individual. People need to take care of people, governments need to stay out of every aspect of private life. When we put what we should be doing in the hands of a government, we essentially are asking for parenting and regulation of our personal life. While this seems to be fine here in the U.S. with many ethnic subcultures, immigrants that know no better, and lazy people who do not wish to take responsibility for themselves, this interaction of socialist government prospers here. I think this is mostly due to the dumbing down of the population in government funded public schools who "sanitize" and misdirect history of the constitutional liberty we once enjoyed.
To quote Franklin, one of our founders and super geek, " he who would sacrifice liberty for safety, deserves neither".
So in a word, No, I don't think socialist medicine would be desireable, would I have an inkling of a need.
If the G7 countries all got tattoos on their asses, what would yours be?
Thank you for your considerate and thoughtful answer, Leslie. ( Not sure identifying yourself on the internet is such a good idea, but indicates a coy forthcomingness of character.)
Fly N. Eye , somewhere in the several supposeably sovereign states.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
Hi Flyneye
I need to correct one major error in your response. The doctors are independent, and work on a fixed amount and a variable amount.
The patient seeks out a doctor, it is not the government that says "Here is your doctor",
You cannot be entirely correct in your views as there is room for governments which represent society as law and order protectors, provide rules to govern commerce, fraud protection etc, armies for emergencies and protection, etc.
The government does not assign you a doctor, one is required to go and find our own. My family doctor has been our doctor since we chose him at the time of our marriage, some 40+ years ago. He is a few years younger than me. When we need a doctor, I call for an appointment, just as you would do for your family doctor or specialist. Did you really pull the molar? Is it possible it could have been saved?
For example of medical treatment. I had a gradual hearing loss problem. Went to my family doctor, he scoped my ears and referred me to a specialist. It turned out blockage was not wax, but eczema. I got an ear-drop prescription (filling plus medication = $10.00) and that problem is cured. My hearing is as good now as it gets for my age.
We have drifted from the original topic of job and job security. Each person has a comfort zone where, if he is in it, he excels.
Back to Government and Medicine.
As I see it, a major problem regarding illness in the USA is overproduction of food. The food is so cheap that fast food joints bigger it up to pull in the crowd, sell the extra large trios for a few pennies more. Obesity is your number one killer. And then there is the ethanol from corn, when the corn could be used to feed the starving in Africa, and by so doing, win America the praise of the (Muslim) world, a world with over a billion people.
The other problem of course, are medical malpractice lawsuits. Every doctor is never knowing if he was deficient in his practice, so trivial problems require exhaustive testing and of course, exhaustive costs.
I call the discussion a draw. I live my style, I am delighted with it, I want not, and I will hope to respond to many more slashdot.com subjects where I can add to, or tease the author with a different view.
Happy belated July 4th.
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
1. You may be able to do the same work, but in another country. I know a math major about your age who worked at a nuclear power plant and was sent to China last year to work as a consultant on a new nuclear plant being placed into operation. He's a black guy, not Asian. You often have to move within the US as a career develops, so why stop at the boarder. 2. For perspective and possible insight go to http://www.econlib.org/library/EconTalk.xml and listen to any of the podcasts that look interesting. All of the speakers are specialists and experts on topics related to economic matters and no topics are dry or uninteresting. And speaking about perspective is what this TED Talk is about, which may also help: http://bit.ly/LDbj8M 3. Buy a copy of "What Color Is Your Parachute" at http://amzn.to/OfdaAs or check a copy out of the library. That book has been around and reissued/revised for at least 20 years. It can help you learn about yourself and perhaps create a new job, even in your present organization. Perhaps you can get $1 million or two from Kickstarter.org! Someone here mentioned folks fighting over the same piece of pie which reminds me of a comment about finding a way to grow the pie larger. 4. More perspective and ideas may come from a reading of "Reflections on Bullough's Pond" at http://amzn.to/LTNpZl . It offers insights and explanations about New England's economic development over the last 400 years that apply today and may offer ideas about your organization and career. 5. Further into left field is this: the Conversations Network is looking for editors of podcasts it offers for free via the internet. It pays a nominal amount for each description submitted and at any given time there are about 100 podcasts in need of being so described. What's neat is that it makes you describe the interesting work of a variety of people, so you have to do some creative thinking, some creative writing, and use your internet skills while learning about work in other fields. This is a non-profit organization, so a career with it won't be your goal. However, the exercise might be useful. Other members of your family, etc. might also be interested. Here's the link with information about how to apply -- a small exercise in job hunting, too: http://www.conversationsnetwork.org/websiteEditorApplication/ Good Luck.
...but let's face it, some of us have no interest in management, or consulting. That's why, after a 15-year career in software development, I turned to teaching. And if you're laughing because I'm advocating teaching as an alternative career, you miss my point: Sometimes getting out of the field is a viable option. I grew tired of lining the pockets of CEOs and PHBs and gutless business owners who simply ran their businesses into the ground, businesses built partially on my hard work. Sometimes you have to take a step back and ask yourself "What exactly have I done for society these past years?" Chances are, if you're a software developer at a "large investment bank," not a hell of a lot.
Good points.
I have found that working for things I believe in, generally has also helped my survival a great deal. Most of the time when I am looking for work it is in military, research, or industry. I believe they are foundations of this country and need help, and whenever I work in those fields I'm generally happy. Yes there is all kinds of bullshit to deal with, but you get that wherever you go. Most of the shops I work for, they are generally focused and have well known goals and needs.
Every time I have strayed from that past, I've been fairly unhappy. In a couple of places I made a six figure income, and I was absolutely miserable. Management by whim, customers internal and external who were clueless but drove everything, managers who got raises by screwing everything rotten.
NOTE: I'm not saying you have to focus on those three areas to be happy and productive, that's just my particular choice, and doesn't include a few other qualifiers I have developed over the years. It just happens that much of the time those shops are in the "let's just get work done" category and I find they work better for me.
Wherever you try to apply for work, think long and hard about actually doing the work and what you are contributing to. That will tell you far more about how happy you will be and how secure you job will be than pay scales. Also remember that even seemingly minor differences in benefits can end up being worth 5, 10, 20K US dollars a year in pay. I took a job for $20K less than what I was making recently, but the benefits are worth over 25K more and all of them are cheaper and less money out of my own paycheck.
I think you are an optimist. Why do you believe that there will be Medicare in 25 years? Or banks? I "look forward" to working until age 75, when I plan to take some kind of friendly poison. If the world has not ended before then.
That said, I think you got plenty of good advice in this thread, one way or the other. If I were to pick up on one thing, it would be the "side project". Hey, you work for a bank, you should be able to do some kind of financial advice software or something. It helps no end when you want to get another job, and it may even get you some money if you get enough customers.
Oh, by the way, nobody gets interesting jobs through interviews or resumes. Networking and contacts is the only thing that matters. The ONLY thing. You live in NY, get into the "silicon alley" scene with your side project. You will have more interesting (and well-paid) work than you can think of in a few months.